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>> media calm supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> we are continuing our annual authors week series here in washington journal. we are hearing from top authors across the political spectrum. we are welcoming back craig shirley the author of the book "april 1945: the hinge of history". looking back. -- welcome back. guest: thank you. host: you talk about a it was a blending, and ending and beginning.

such was april 1940 five. can you expand on that? guest: the end of world war ii met significant changes for the united states. we were no longer an isolationist country. we were isolationist through world war i. and through troops leaving north america and trade with certain nations. in world war ii changed all that. we won the war and establish the united nations. and became a nationalist country. the dramatic changes in terms of our international relations happened as well as domestically. they worked on yielding jeeps,

building planes and tanks, my two grandmothers were both rosie the riveter's. it changed dreaded -- dramatically. so many things came about. the rockets came about because of world war ii. it changed forever. our history of the united states both domestically and overseas. host: you talk about the book and title it april 1945 but you really start and -- in january up until that time. why is important to start that? -- in january? guest: the war was still raging

in january. we fight for okinawa was going on. the last island chain off of japan which douglas macarthur was going to use as a staging island for the final invasion until the advent of a nuclear bomb. you can't judge april but it is the ultimate months. hiller commit suicide, mussolini dies. so many things happen both to mystically and overseas.

-- domestically and overseas. you cannot understand in january, february and march -- so many things were going on. host: if you want to ask him questions. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. text us your questions or comments at (202) 748-8003. the book is "april 1945: the hinge of history". craig shirley joining us. i would ask you about those four nths and fdr's influence. you write, fdr's jaunty mood and eternal optimism gave the american people hope when they needed it most while its leadership during world war ii

his frequent is marginal speeches -- inspirational speeches -- question work guest: guest: i consider him one of our four greatest presidents. the criteria i would use is dusty free or save many people? by that standard yet to include george washington, ronald reagan . abraham lincoln and franklin roosevelt. he admitted the new deal as a social experiment. but leaving the country through one were to -- world war ii.

the two people responsible for leading us through war churchill and fdr. he was not only president of the united states but president of the world. the united states government was arming and supplying and feeding not only the american fighting men but the british fighting soldier, the prussian, the australian and chinese army. we were helping the entire world. and everyone turned to fdr for his advice and assistance for he was also brilliant because he threaded himself with very good military men -- surrounded himself with good military men.

douglas macarthur, and milking -- admiral king and so many others that need to be named. he surrounded himself with good military men and navy men and he let them do their job which was winning the war. his job was to supply them with the weapons and stand back and let them. he would be involved and the decisions and consulted on decisions like d-day or the assaults on midway. otherwise he stood back and let his military men carry out the work. host: on the outside you talk about his optimism and the hope he gave to the people. what was going on privately and fdr during this time? guest: this is a man under

tremendous strain. he has four sons all in the military. all in active duty. fdr junior was a military officer, james was in the marine corps. he had to worry about that but also going into war. he was fighting a multi-front war with japan, germany, italy, romania and europe and the north atlantic. this was a tremendous strain.

and polio. his health was never great. and i think he smoked four packs of day -- a day. all of this combined, and he always said his wife was his best advisor. but she was doing things to. she really turned to the office of first lady in the modern position we know of today. before that -- eleanor roosevelt was doing a daily column, daily radio podcast, -- broadcast.

in la guardia running government agencies together. she was busy. he always said she was his best advisor. so i consider her to be a wonderful woman. host: our guest has written several books on ronald reagan. the first -- "april 1945: the hinge of history" focuses on fdr. independent line from indiana. caller: thank you. good morning. guest: good morning. caller: i want to push back of your analysis of his contribution. george marshall told -- that the administration errors and running the war cost 100,000

american lives and throughout the war six months. he may have helped liberate western europe but he abandoned eastern europe to stalin who is not better than adolf hitler's. i don't see him being a great liberator. guest: you're talking about -- that was a mistake as we all know. where to be lou the 100,000 men -- where do we lose the 100,000 men? caller: i found a quote by accident in a book on the normandy beach and it quotes, an unpublished interview with george marshall. he was a person who would know. guest: thank you. yes.

i understand the quote but where were 100,000 men lost uncertainly -- unnecessarily? caller: being an old red like i know the history of the field artillery with the help of then senator truman the united states cut back on artillery production. i september of 1944 we were actually out of artillery ammunition. guest: i would have to say you judge the result. fdr won the war as quickly as possible. he improved the development of the a-bomb. which people would say shorten the war by two or three years. it save the lives of hundreds of thousands and maybe millions. i think on the big decisions,

both roosevelt and german and the field -- and truman and the field commanders got it right. truman said war help. you have human beings involved and they make mistakes. judge the results. he did win the war. he did lose too much of eastern europe to stalin. that was a mistake. the war itself conducted by churchill and fdr was mostly a success. we won. host: let's hear from michigan, democrats line. sam, hi. guest: harry hopkins, i'm glad

you asked. he was a key aide to roosevelt. through the 30's and 40's. he was plucked out. wpa who has created bowling alleys and carry hopkins was involved in the. -- that. roosevelt took a shine to him and for a time hopkins actually lived in the white house with his daughter in the west wing. he was a trusted aide and went on important differ medic

missions to europe. -- diplomatic missions to europe. he died prematurely. he was a chain smoker. he died prematurely of a heart attack which was tragic because he never had a chance to write a memoir. it has been lost to history. we do have that insider account of the roosevelt administration. host: we have a viewer off of twitter. who asks to the slaying of this hinge help us or harm us question mark -- slaying of this hinge--sling of this hinge help us or harm us? guest: help us. definitely. we became much more sophisticated in terms of human relations.

in terms of personal freedom. they can all find their seats. the space program. civil rights. women's rights, transportation, all found their seeds in world war ii. i think we became a better nation. and by the way we are still feeling the effects today of world war ii. host: how so? guest: in terms of the economy. in terms of leisure. the growth of labor unions. the 40 hour workweek. prosperity, social security, all of those came out of the new deal or world war ii. he was a the manager --

management of social security, but that fact is that it has helped many senior citizens. host: you talked about the cost of were measured in death and destruction and a pillaging of libraries but also in march i did alone across the board was 8 billion so tax revenue brought only 6 billion. the national debt grew to 23 5 billion, paint that into perspective. guest: the debts we made up by the administration but also by the sales u.s. bonds where patriotic americans bought barnes by --bonds by the millions. i member my grandma, going to

the bank and cutting out very bonds which were just little postage stamps and cashing them in. they but u.s. savings bonds and more bonds. that's interesting too. people talk about the united states and how united we are as a country. the fact of the matter is we have always been divided. maybe 30% of the people were against george washington and the american revolution. in the conclusion of the war something like 100,000 americans

left the united states because they did not want to live under the articles of confederation. they wanted to live under british rule so they left and went back to europe or england. they went to jamaica and other countries. then the war of 1812 was also a division between americans. the civil war was about a division. half the country supported slavery and half of it was against it. in world war i something like three dozen members of congress voted against our entry into world war i. we have been divided since the vietnam war, a race poverty. the only two times where we were

truly united as a country was in the aftermath of december 7, 1941. he stayed pretty much united for the form -- four years of the war. and september 11. it only lasted several months. i think we get our strengths from our division because out of that we get compromise. and that has been the genius of america is to compromise on various issues. don't let anybody tell you we have always been united. that is not true. host: from georgia, democrats line. mr. jenkins. caller: thank you for taking my call. my grandpa fought, and my dad

fought in world war ii. when he returned to mississippi. what was the issue of the service of the blackman who returned home and did not receive civil rights? guest: it was the beginning. i am not an expert. it was the beginning of the recognition of african-americans to america as a country. there were many citations and awards. the red tails, the tuskegee airmen. there were many positive developments that came out of world war ii and i think it started getting people thinking about how to make this a better country.

let's make african-americans truly equal in the eyes of the law. nothing is perfect. human beings are not perfect. it was a long arduous process. i think the real beginning since the emancipation proclamation was the stirrings of more rights for all americans. not only african-americans but women, and other minorities as well. host: our guest for these our -- this hour. craig shirley the author of "april 1945: the hinge of history". another caller. caller: diddy up the tariff? did he up the tariff? in other words, the port got us

out of the depression. but didn't roosevelt had to burn a road going to china. did we supply the army with the flying tigers fighting the japanese prior to pearl harbor. he get us into the war? guest: i don't know where to start. roosevelt inherited the great depression. it started under herbert hoover. that's the first issue. it is true he did not get us out of the great depression.

to grow in economics it is not about production it is about consumption. the british were actually consuming american products and that is what really got us out of the great depression. world war ii did not get us out. we were already out of it. long before the war started. the key to economic growth is consumption. you can make 100,000 ford automobiles but if nobody buys them what good are they? that really stimulated our growth.

as far as roosevelt and road, i don't know how to answer that. the road was used to supply australians and others fighting in asia, the germans and japanese. most of the japanese. used to supply our troops, british ships, and australian troops. and i'm trying to number what else the gentleman said. host: january 25 the battle of the bulge and february 4 211 it is the yalta conference. with this in the perspective, how does that influence april 1945? guest: stalin insisted the meeting between the big three, stalin, churchill, and was about

that it be held in russia because he was terrified of being assassinated. he wanted on area where he could control it. there's no diaries or books like that about the reluctance. they did go. and stalin harangued and control the meetings. i went this territory and i want this. the russians and defeated the nazis and on and on and on and he finally got what he wanted which was control of eastern europe, hungary, czechoslovakia and other countries. that was churchill's first big mistake. allowing those countries to become enslaved by the soviet union.

and joseph stalin. that was one big mistake. it was also an arduous trip for roosevelt. he was already a frail man. he was only in his 50's. the stress and strain of war and excessive smoking. he did not drink excessively. he had an old-fashioned or a manhattan drink after 5:00. i member one bio i read is to favor people were his two favorite cousins. he liked to gossip with them.

you at all of these things up plus 11,000 arduous miles. by plane, boat and car. back then is much more difficult. it was difficult for them. out of that conference came to soviet hegemony and takeover of eastern europe. host: when you talk about the big three they are always painted together but what was the level between fdr and stalin?

guest: churchill and roosevelt trusted each other implicitly. they were both suspicious of stalin. the russian army did do a magnificent job and fighting the nazis from the east and they lost millions of men as a result. nonetheless and we supply them of course. with airplanes and things like that. we supplied the russian army but there was ever -- never a level of acceptable trust between stalin and roosevelt. host: from a joanne in massachusetts. dependent line. caller: i would like to say you mentioned the word nuclear in regards to pans bombing and i

think the press and maybe yourself, you said very loosely. it was not a nuclear bomb. nuclear bombs were not used in world war ii. guest: of course not. caller: ok, atomic bombs were used. i think the terms being used, it is scary enough being used today. a lot of newspeople use the word nuclear. i just wanted to clarify that with you. guest: i'm not a scientist. i was not an oak ridge or new mexico but the common usage is that these bombs were dropped onto japanese cities and hope of ending the war and it did end the war. host: the battle of he would you , the bombing of tokyo, the

battle of okinawa be ends, talk about the japanese portion of these months. guest: they were throwing everything they could into the war. they would come in once we got control, cvs would come in. they were mostly made up older men, experts in carpentry of -- or some other work. they served obviously but were too old for contact.

they allowed us to bring in planes especially the bombers. we could use b-17's and be 20 force in europe --and b-24s in europe so we had to develop a super fortress. to bump some of the islands in japan and around japan. japan was throwing everything into the war. at the beginning of the war they had 16 aircraft carriers and many battleships and we reduced that to a fraction through the various battles midway and other battles. throughout the war. they were really hanging on by a thread.

so the last months of the war. they were running out of supplies. the asian peninsula was being cut off by the allies. they were trained and working with their civilian population. they had children with bamboo sticks doing whatever they could even though we had thoroughly bombed dozens of japanese cities and laid waste to dozens of japanese cities there was still

a significant population of civilians to fight off the invasion. it was not until the dropping of the atomic bombs the war might go on another two or three years because the population would never surrender or give up to the allies. host: let's hear from bernie in florida. democrats line. caller: roosevelt. we wrote these books and try to -- you try to exclude what he really was. he was a segregationist. he did not want lacks in the service. if it wasn't for his wife the blacks would not have been in world war ii. what he think of that? caller: guest: i think you are partially right, yes. he was on the board of directors

of harvard university and they had racial quarters at harvard university when he was there. they certainly had racial quotas and segregation in the u.s. army all during world war ii. i resent imposing the morality of 2020 to --2022 on 241. people understood differently and behaved differently. it was wrong. it was horribly wrong. there were positive things that came out of the war because of the breakdown of the walls of segregation. fdr was no real regressive on civil rights. -- progressive on civil rights.

he made halfhearted attempts. there was the great depression and then the war started. but i think he was a product of his era and his time. in many ways i think he grew out of it. some of his speeches toward the end indicated this. and of course eleanor roosevelt was probably far more progressive on the racial issues than her husband franklin was. i still contend that because of war we had a terrible toll.

some estimates as high as 80 million who died worldwide as a result of hitler's and miscellany -- mussolini. for the living things began to get better. host: from new jersey, republican line. pat. caller: my question is about harry truman. given fdr got his help how much was truman kept in the loop? we know he did not know about the atomic bomb. did he know about the war efforts? how much did fdr's sudden death impact his early days in the conference? guest: thank you. i am -- i can answer this best i

can. fdr treated truman pretty much like any other president treated a vice president. i member reading once wilson's vice president waited a year and a half for a meeting with wilson. and another one to johnson after -- actually went home because he had nothing to do as vice president. there was an ongoing joke at the time before teddy roosevelt became vice president. the modern presidency probably has to be best credited to quarter -- carter.

he was given serious responsibilities. roosevelt treated truman pretty much like the previous presidents. truman was in an apartment on wisconsin avenue living with his wife and daughter. he had a senate office and would go preside in the senate when he would need to. he didn't really have any responsibilities and he found out the way everyone else photo over the radio -- found out, over the radio. that roosevelt had passed away. nt rush right over to the white house and had a meeting and famously said, what can i do for you misses roosevelt? and she said no harry, it is

what we can do for you for you are the one in trouble now. he was thrown into the lion's den without any real experience. he was a senator before then. working on commissions were agencies like that under roosevelt. editorials were pretty tough on him in the first years after he became president. he grew into the job very quickly as most of them do. host: i want to play you a little bit of what fdr said to congress shortly after the yalta conference and what he was telling congress and the world at that time. particularly the united states after the war. here's a portion from march of 1945. >> i come from a crimea conference. with a firm belief that we have made a good start on the road to

the world of peace. major allies have been more -- never before have allies been more closely related not only in war aims but also in peace aims. and we are continuing to be united. with each other and peaceloving nations. so those ideals will become a reality. peace will belong only ask humanity insist on it and continues to work for and sacrifice for. 25 years ago they like to be switched late fought and suffered for. we failed them then and we cannot feel them again. and expect the world to survive

again. the congress of the american people will accept the results as the beginning of the structure of peace. from which we can begin to build under god that better world to give to our grandchildren and children. yours and mine. children and gradual and gradual of the whole world must live and can live. host: what is the impact of that speech not only to congress but to the americans listening? guest: roosevelt was a magnificent speech giver. i have another quote from a

speech he gave to a group of democrats. it was about peace in the future. his speech, we have a war written president who is determined to keep the peace. we were ready for peace. after world war ii and we had lost hundreds of thousands of men in uniform including something like 250,000 lost at sea. never had a barrel -- burial ceremony or a grave or anything like that. it was a good speech and what the american people wanted to hear. it is what the congress wanted to hear. they wanted to believe we could move ahead with great britain and with the soviet union, arms

locked in peace. unfortunately that was not the case. we had the cold war. it was still a noble goal and what i consider to be a terrific speech. host: from gary in connecticut. independent line. caller: i am a retired professor of history. i want to take this time to disagree with you very strongly on one point. there were a number of things you have said. you said the atomic bomb ended the war with japan. this is really provably not true. if you look into the first bomb was dropped august 6 and the second on the ninth. on the ninth of august the soviet union declared war on japan. that was agreed to three months

or four months earlier that they would declare war 90 days after the surrender of japan. they did right on time. it was not an opportunistic move. the bulk of the japanese army was in china which was now pinned down by the soviet army. that is point number one. number two if you go to the ward council and read the minutes from the meeting, they do not discuss the bombs. they discuss the soviet entry into the war as being the key factor. three, it was not a conditional surrender. it became known in that -- guest: i did not say it was unconditional surrender. caller: i know but i am saying that. host: let him finish and then we

will get your answer. caller: i am just saying it was probably believed that was the case. number four, there were arguments and by the way i can refer you to books and a number of anthologies giving both sides of the argument. it becomes clear once you really study the most recent data on this. that you are operating from a different reasoning. host: we will stop there. guest: i don't know where to start because there are so many fallacies. i never said it was conditional or unconditional. the bombs were dropped and within a few weeks the uss missouri was in tokyo bay and the peace was signed by

diplomats. obviously everybody agrees including the japanese that dropping the bombs ended the war. i don't understand his point really to be honest. host: from tuckerton new jersey. rick, mcgrath line -- democrats line. caller: good morning you did a wonderful job setting the table for the united states future. i think we have to give some credit to following presidency. i am 68 but as a teenager i read a book by harry truman.

we had some fantastic presidents after roosevelt. you look at truman and eisenhower and the standings that keep rising. kennedy of course, he certainly proved his mettle in the bay of pigs. and johnson was going to be a president until -- and then it went downhill. but the presidents that followed him really followed him. thank you. guest: thank you. every 20 or so years we go through the peak of the george washington and then downwards. still great presidents like adam and jefferson but they are not george washington.

and then to the bottom and then we go back up to abraham lincoln and then to johnson and others and then back up to teddy roosevelt. and then down again through hoover and others. and then back up to harding and then to frank lynn roosevelt. and then down again, yes truman and eisenhower were good presidents but they were not franklin roosevelt and i would disagree about lyndon johnson bear do you added dixon, ford, carter and then you go back up again to reagan. it is not perfect. it is not a scientific equation but it is a rough outline of history. how we go in this country from very good presidents to mediocre

presidents. host: you also mentioned what occurred in oshawa it's --au schwitz. put that in perspective please. guest: i did not realize how many death camps they had. i know 30 or 40 all throughout western europe and eastern europe. poland, hungary, germany those places. there was unspeakable, horrible murders of not only 6 million jews but another four or 5 million homosexuals or local opponents -- political

opponents, anyone seen as not part of the master race was exterminated. these were discovered and there are many accounts of them and tragic maladies and problems that were discovered in these death camps. it was just one more thing about we discovered how monstrous the nazis were really were. host: they were forcing the local population to tour the camps and witness the carnage, the germans all denied any knowledge. the local marriott -- mayor

committed suicide after being forced to witness one day. guest: yes. they forced the local german population to tour the camps. they would say they did not know anything about it but it was impossible to not know anything. we actually know about it as early about 9041 --1941. and published a white paper on members of the jewish race. people were disappearing. back in 1941 we knew about it but nobody paid attention except for time magazine wrote one article about it with a meanly titled a wandering jew.

but we did not know the extent of it until 1944 and 1945. host: from dennis in texas. republican line. caller: good morning. i would say i agree with you overall. guest: thank you. caller: that america has generally been divided. a couple things i would like to point out. when he talked about fdr and the new deal. generally consider the rockstar of economics until the carter

and lucian ayres proved him wrong -- inflation years proved him wrong. my point is that in 1939 in a meeting they said we spent all of this money and it did not do any good except to get us into debt. average unemployment was 14%. they had a recess in the middle of it get rid of some of the employment programs and it spiked to 22%. i recently finished reading a book by my favorite economist. he gave a good expiration as to -- he makes the point that war can get you out of recession.

you destroy all of the things you are making. you do not create any wealth. his point was ultimately roosevelt as he transitioned and he mentioned -- he did start transitioning the economy to do manufacturing of war stuff even before we got into the war. but he started to transition out. this was the big point. he started to tradition out the people in his demonstration that were -- administration that were leaning. they were being replaced by businesspeople. host: we will leave it there. thanks. if you wanted to take any of that. guest: i enjoyed listening to the gentleman. i

right after the war and that did not happen. the congress cut taxes and stimulated the economy. it was tremendous economic growth in the late 40's. we never went back into a recession or depression. everybody was involved in the war. i mean everybody. everybody was involved in some aspect. there was a lot of positive economic activity that really did not subside after world war i.

the roosevelt administration told detroit, for the duration of the war you will not take any new parts. you will make tanks and things like that. it was after the war where they started producing new cars again. there were bought and were consumed. the economy really did well during the war and better after the war. host: carol in missouri.

democrats line. caller: i was six years old when i seen 41. i remember the day pearl harbor was bombed. i went to a country school. everything we did had to do with the war. i know we each had a plane on the map of the united states. every time we bought bombs, we moved our plane so far on that map. everybody sang the service sounds and all of that. we were so unified.

my dad was a farmer. we only have so much gas. we had meatless tuesdays. i do not understand why we can't be that unified again. host: that is carol giving her snapshot of what was going on at the time. guest: it was wonderful hearing your stories. i hope everybody remembers world war ii. please write down or record your recollections. there are plenty of websites,

the world war ii museum in new orleans and others will accept your recordings and memories and thoughts. i remember my mother -- is 89. she is in great shape. i did a little research. it turned out, everyone had victory gardens. backyards, fields. in 1944, 1 fourth of vegetables in america were grown in victory crops. the big farms were sending and vegetables overseas russians,

australians or chinese. we were sending so much of our fruits and vegetables overseas. we needed the victory gardens to help feed ourselves. it is funny you mentioned about the sacrifice and what you did during the war. really my two world were books, every sunday after church, my grandmother would have us all for dinner. we were around the table with aunts and uncles. the conversation always turned to the war. they would talk about -- my

father was a boy scout at the time and many other promotional posters. you have three dependents, we are not that desperate. he was turned down. everybody in our family, we were not unique, every family did this.

host: in connecticut. independent live. hello, mary lou. let's go to bill. republican. caller: mr. shirley, a few colors back there was a gentleman calling in regarding fdr saying that he was a segregationist. i was reading about the check in -- jackie robinson's brother who ran in the 1936 olympics, i think it was mark robinson, he came in second to jesse owens. with you being a historian, i would like to know if this is true. supposedly, after they defeated

hitler's in the olympics, let's just say it that way. when they came back home, franklin delano roosevelt did not invite the black athletes to the white house. is that correct? guest: i do know that jesse owens came back from winning more gold medals in berlin. he once said that hitler's shake his hand but fdr shook his hand. he was upset for obvious reasons. i do not know -- but i do know jesse owens was heartbroken and better that franklin roosevelt

acknowledges victory in berlin. host: mr. shirley, thanks for your time. >> coming up tonight, thoughts from a pair of retiring democratic representative. first, from illinois, cheri bustos for flex on her life and career in politics. then oregon's peter defazio discusses his 36 years in the house of representatives. then, testimony on the impact of new safety legislation. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies in more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no, it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers to enable wi-fi so they can be ready for anything. >> kim cast supports c-span --

comcast supports c-span, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> this week, watch washington journal's special holiday week authors series to live segments with new writers. former assistant secretary for homeland security under president obama and faculty chair of the homeland security program at harvard juliet kia shares her book "the devil never sleeps." watch washington journal life friday morning at 7:00 eastern for our special series on c-span or c-span now, our free mobile app. >> next, democratic representative cheri bustos sets down with c-span to reflect on her career and life in politics. the representative also talks about her time in health