way to take you to 10g. >> mediacom support c-span as a public service, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> coming up this morning on "washington journal," club for growth president david mcintosh talks about his group's role in the house speaker election and its economic priorities for the congress. then california democratic congressman brad sherman talks about the battle over house speaker and democrat strategy, and congressional news of the day. join the conversation with your calls, texts, and tweets. "washington journal" starts now. >> no nominee, having received a majority of the votes cast, a speaker has not been elected. host: after a record-setting 11 rounds of voting, republicans

remain at an impasse over who should be speaker of the house for the 118th congress. good morning. from capitol hill on this friday morning, we want to get your thoughts on history unfolding this week in the house. please dial in now for democrats at (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, and independents, (202) 748-8002 you could also join the conversation by texting. (202) 748-8003. or post on facebook.com/c-span and you can also send a tweet with the handle @cspanwj. we will get to your thoughts in a minute. the latest from capitol hill comes from fox news. the houses back at noon eastern after a motion to adjourn was

approved last night. an important note, he says, this is a phone call, not an in person meeting. calls are much easier for leadership to manage. after the gop met behind closed doors last night to discuss this offer by kevin mccarthy's team, cnn share this clip of kevin mccarthy. >> how long do you think this is going to drag out for? >> i don't know. we are making progress. we are negotiating. >> this is longest since the

1850's. >> i have the longest speech on the floor. >> giving one member of the power to oust you. >> that is the way it is always been. >> has undercut the power of the speakers? doesn't that inherently meet you will be a weaker speaker? >> no. >> are you concerned there might be more than four bill never vote for you? >> no. >> are you worried about losing the modes -- losing the votes of moderates? >> this is a new thought we will have to have, we have a five seat majority.

the entire conference will have to learn how to work together. it is better we go through this process now so we can achieve the things who want to achieve for the american public. if this takes a little longer and does not meet your deadline, that is ok, because it is not how you start, it is how you finish. if we finish well we will be successful. host: republican leader kevin mccarthy after an 11th vote for speaker failed to give him the votes needed to become the speaker for the house. 21 republicans have been consistently rejecting him as speaker. we want to get your thoughts on all this. cheryl in new york, democratic caller. good morning. go ahead. caller: i am wondering, is anybody thinking about the fact that the majority of these republican clowns were part of

the insurrection two years ago today? they all should be in jail. host: what proof do you have that the majority of republicans were part of that? caller: when i say majority, ok, enough of them. certainly the 20 that are making all of this noise. they have done nothing, but they are interested in hunter biden. i have not heard any agenda items other than investigations. it is a clown show. we should be thoroughly embarrassed and ashamed that these guys hold positions of power. i worry for my grandchildren and the generations after them. we are in a sad state of affairs and they better fix it and fix

it soon. host: cheryl mentioned today is january 6, marking the two year anniversary of the attack on the u.s. capitol. president biden today will honor police officers and election workers at the white house on this in a bursary. go to c-span.org -- on this anniversary. go to c-span.org for more on that. we are talking about the speaker stalemate and getting your thoughts about what you've seen on the house floor this week. 11 rounds of voting. we are expecting a 12 when the house reopens today at noon. david it illinois, republican. good morning. who do you want to be speaker? caller: i would like to see kevin mccarthy as speaker. i'm disappointed in those 20 republicans holding out. i do not think they have the right to hold the house hostage

until they get their way. i am supportive of a lot of the things they're asking for, but i did not think it is right to hold the house hostage. i do not think to them it is about getting those procedural things done. i think it is more about not letting kevin mccarthy become speaker. host: let's listen to one of those so-called holdouts as you describe them, matt gaetz of florida. he nominated former president trump as speaker. the former president getting one vote yesterday during that 11th round of voting. here he is on fox news following the last vote, talking about the concessions he and the other republicans are seeking. >> my conversations with democrats have largely been about making sure they do not leave the floor for dinners or fundraisers.

we need them to stay there so the denominator in the equation on the speaker allows us to have leverage to push for many of the things we have been discussing on the budget, on term limits, on the order of the house of representatives. so committee assignments and chairmanships are not bought and sold to who they want to distribute the most lobbyist money while the american people are left behind in a cropped, broken system. >> your point about rushing off to events or fundraisers is important. there was a fundraising email sent out by andy biggs, one of the other individuals opposing kevin mccarthy and he sent a fundraiser out while he was on the floor singly blocked kevin mccarthy from being speaker, but now we conservatives must lead the fight to get the leadership we deserve. is that the right approach given your message about don't run out

to the fundraisers? >> i want to make sure people stayed on the floor. i have sent out similar emails. pro mccarthy groups have been running robo calls to pressure us. when you have kevin mccarthy utilizing his extensive political resources to battle against house conservatives, we want the great patriots throughout this land to go to matt gaetz.com and ship in so i can fight back and get the message out about the great things we are working to achieve. it is not the end of the world we take a few extra days or weeks to sort this out. there are some days in congress where the only thing we vote on is the changing of the name of one post office. now it -- now we are deciding who is second in line to the presidency and the construct of these rules transform the speaker into a ceremonial position. if my colleagues get what they

want from mccarthy the chairman of the freedom caucus will be more important than the speaker of the house in determining legislation, how amendments are processed. host: matt gaetz on fox news. you heard him saying that if they get these concessions, the house freedom caucus will have more power. the washington post reporting on this deal that is emerging that republicans are going to talk about this morning ahead of reconvening at noon eastern. signs of a possible deal emerge. this is what the pop -- this is what the washington post is reporting. "in a major allowance to house republicans mccarthy offered to lower from five to one the number of members required to force a vote on ousting the speaker, change the california republican previously said he would not accept. mccarthy also expressed a willingness to put more members of the staunchly conservative freedom caucus on the house

rules committee, which debates legislation before it is moved to the floor, and he relented on allowing floor votes to institute term limits on members and enact order policy legislation. the proposed rule changes represented a stunning reversal that if adopted would weaken the position of speaker and ensure a tenuous hold on the job." duke in maine, what is your take on this? caller: good morning. to me it is a circus sideshow. i've never seen anything like this in my life. this mccarthy, he is trying to cut all of these deals. it is almost like this guy is willing to sell his soul to the devil to get that position. he even moved into the office before this came up for a vote. it makes me sick to see these

people acting like little kids. these are supposed to be grown adult people, and acting like little babies and throwing rotten tomatoes at each other. i have never seen such a bunch of trap and all of my life. -- a bunch of crap in all of my life. host: if mccarthy is able to get the votes, what is your prediction for his tenure? caller: i don't know. it sounds like he is trying to -- some of the deal cutting he is doing is that should he get in and then there is a certain amount of people in his caucus that does not want him, they can just throw them out anytime. good god. stand your ground. if you want something stand up for what you believe in and

stand your ground. this guy, it sounds like he is wishy-washy and willing to sell his soul to get that position. he wants it that bad and it makes me sick. host: you think kevin mccarthy should let this go round after round after round and just wear down those 20 republicans? caller: definitely not. the guy has gone 10 or 11 votes? it is very obvious they do not want him. does this guy have any pride at all? host: you think you should step aside? who was the consensus speaker? caller: i don't know. i don't know which one i would support. it is just a mess. host: robin in cleveland, tennessee, democratic caller. we will hear from you next. caller: we need to realize the

same people, the majority of those 19, lauren boebert, are the same sedition nests that tried to overthrow the government. these last two years will be chaos, confusion, and nothing will go right and nothing will get done. host: darlene in georgia. republican. hello. caller: good morning. i am agreeing with the independent caller from maine. kevin mccarthy needs to step away. this freedom caucus, these are a bunch of clowns. the republicans are doing nothing. i voted and i voted and i voted for them hoping they would do something to help this country. they are doing nothing. this bait clown show they are putting on, it needs to stop.

america looks like a laughingstock to the rest of the world. host: darlene, respond to the concessions kevin mccarthy is making. let me read them to you and others. has mccarthy given up his house speaker powers before he has even won? listen to what they want and the ramifications of it. the rules committee is often called the speaker committee because it's appointees come from the speaker and it is staffed with nine members of the majority took four of the minority. the panel can set the lineup for debating legislation however the speaker decides. one republican who has been opposing kevin mccarthy, you mentioned him, and his allies, have pushed for four appointees from the far right, usually associated with the house freedom caucus. such a dynamic would leave the heart right -- the hard right

close to being the difference. traditionally every member of the majority votes how the speaker intends on the rules committee unless there is an extraordinary circumstance related to lawmakers personal beliefs or something central to their districts. by custom the house speaker never loses a vote in the rules committee. mccarthy's antagonists are trying to make that a possibility. the hardliners have a point about how government funding bills are supposed to be debated under open rules. this process effectively ended more than six years ago as democrats, then in the minority, flustered republicans by repeatedly offering amendments regarding confederate symbols. these 20 or 21 republicans want to change how the bills come to the floor, they want to have more say over which bills come to the floor and what they look

like and, as the washington post noted, the debate process once they do come to the floor. respond to that. caller: these 19 or 20 freedom caucus members or whatever they are calling themselves this time, they are a bunch of clowns. they do not care about america. this is how i feel. they are holding up the government, they are holding up the speakership. if the republicans cannot get it together, elect hakeem jeffries as speaker of the house. host: as a republican you are saying that? caller: yes, i am. elect hakeem jeffries as speaker of the house and let's move on to getting the business done. host: robert in michigan, independent. caller: happy new year. that last caller, it is amazing.

it seems to me that ever since the turn-of-the-century there a bit that have been happening like the towers and january 6 and now this is taking place. it is funny because when trump first put his hat in the arena and started this i do not think none of this would be taking place if trump was not elected president. he still got his hands in the bowl. host: in what way? the former president called these 20 republicans and said vote for kevin mccarthy and they still did not vote for kevin mccarthy. caller: i know. that is what makes it kind of confusing. i still believe none of this

would be taking place as far as the division in the republican party if trump would not have thrown his hat in the arena and i still think between trump and steve bannon, they thought this was a joke to begin with. they did not think they would get elected. i don't think trump thought he was going to be elected. he did this as a joke and there he is. everything that has been taken place from the turn-of-the-century, nothing has been making sense. to me. i speak for myself. i sort of pay attention to it and i am not a lawyer, i am not, i cannot be any kind of politician, but it is just the way it is. all of these events that have been happening right up until this -- even more hilarious if

trump was talking about becoming speaker of the house. it is just another joke. host: understood. let me hear from angela in maryland. democratic caller. caller: one of the 20 is a representative from my district, maryland district one, andy harris. he was mentioned in that january 6 committee as being one of the 12 congresspeople that did the second late december trump had the 12 at the white house. i am sure that is where they got their fake collectors together and decided how they would try to make mike pence use those selectors to overthrow the government. that did not work so now they figure they will just overthrow their own party. i think it is working out pretty good so far. no doubt they do not like the

fbi because the fbi should be putting them all in jail. host: what do think of andy harris's role this week, objecting to kevin mccarthy? caller: i think this is what he feels he needs to do. a lot of people are calling them clowns. they are not clowns. they are true believers. mr. harris is so afraid of communism that he thinks the antidote to that is fascism, which we agree is not. i don't see communism coming from the left in congress, they never tried to overthrow a presidential election and they never tried to overthrow their house speaker. this is very dangerous stuff. this is not a joke. these people are serious. host: one of the concessions andy harris and others want from the speaker is on this motion to vacate the chair.

the washington post reports "when it comes to voting for the speaker the minority party will almost never offer help to majority. during speaker elections, the majority has to produce a majority from its side of the aisle. that can be difficult when a few dozen ideologues decide it is time to boot the speaker, as happened in 2015 when freedom caucus members wanted to force a vote against john boehner. he resigned rather than face the vote. by giving into these demands, the next gop speaker will have a hard time passing legislation unless the farthest right element of their caucus supports the measure. shouldn't mccarthy come calling on democrats for some big vote? they are prepared to leverage his need for their assistance to win concessions of their own." let's hear from mark in berlin, maryland. republican. good morning. caller: good morning.

andy harris is also my representative and id mail him stating hold your ground. i was proud of him for trying to save our union and to do something to correct congress. washington is broken. this is apparent. donald trump was elected because so many people are tired of what is going on in washington. they are tired of all of the spending. what is going on right now is kevin mccarthy is part of the establishment, he is part of the deep state. a lot of his votes are right along with the democrats. he was elected to congress in 2007. in 2008 he was added to the republican hierarchy in slot number seven. over the last 15 years he has moved himself up. that is why a lot of these guys

are saying he is part of the establishment, he is part of the mitch mcconnell republican party and they are tired of it. they want to start reducing government. the federal government is bloated, is too big, and that has been going on since 1912, and republicans have basically capitulated. now finally a group of guys are standing up and saying government is too large. we need to go back towards our federalist system and start working between the people and the states and the federal government, instead of the federal government running everything. host: i will correct it. guys and gals standing up. caller: yes, i am sorry, yes. in 2018 when a freshman representative, a gal, aoc, was elected, she put a lot of pressure on pelosi and poulos caved.

nancy pelosi caved before she got on the house floor but she gave a lot of left-wing policies to aoc and agreed to go along with a lot of things before they went to the house floor and that is because nancy pelosi was so desperate to regain the speakership so see cast -- so she caved to the left of her party. host: you think former speaker nancy pelosi would ever have agreed to a motion to vacate the chair and lowering that threshold? caller: she would never have vacated the chair. she would do whatever it took to get it. host: agreeing to allowing one member to offer that motion? caller: i know what they are doing. what they are doing is they're trying to negotiate and they will try to string it out as long as they possibly can because what they are trying to do is finally get kevin mccarthy to give up. can i add one other point?

everyone in the news is fascinated with this topic. i think it is just part of our system. it has only been a few days and people are acting like it has been months. they are calling it an embarrassment, which it is not. it is part of legislation policy. the senate is already at home. it is not like they are going to be working on legislative policy to do something about the border. they are not going to be doing anything to help our economy. yesterday joe biden set our economic policy is working. how is it working when rental prices and home prices if you're buying a new home, your mortgage rates are 30% to 40% higher than in 2020? host: before you go down that road, the president, we are going to hear about the economy this morning at 8:30 eastern.

we will get decembers numbers. who do you think is the consensus candidate? caller: i don't think there is. i think they will go in the back. i think jim jordan does not have time. i think you will be on the judiciary doing something there. donald has not been in congress long. he looks like a good guy. host: byron donalds, republican of florida for people who have not been paying attention. he has been nominated over these last three days by a group of those 20 republicans who have rejected kevin mccarthy. mark, do you think because he has only served a couple of terms he is not ready? caller: now. i do not think that matters at all. i think he has a lot of support. there are eight people in the republican hierarchy and that could jump and get people more

experience. steve scalise, p is the one who got shot in the baseball field. he has been in leadership a long time. what we need to do is get away from these people who think they are entitled to a position because they've been in leadership for a long time. we need to choose the right person to lead us in the right direction. kevin mccarthy, donald trump supported him. i am a donald trump supporter but i am leaning towards ron desantis for 2024. i'm not going to follow the crowd. i am looking for the best person. that is why i sent andy harris a congratulatory email telling him to hold the ground. we are getting away from personal responsibility, liberty , and that is what the congress needs to focus on.

allowing people to live their lives and not have government interference in every aspect of our lives. these 20 people are holding the ground. host: march in maryland, republican. -- mark in maryland, republican. kudos to our c-span members behind the camera in the house. the washington post with the headline with the house and chaos, c-span shows footage of americans do not usually see. booing, animated conversations, sleeping, lawmakers scrolling on their phones. the typical livestream focuses on the desks, but this week brought an unusual amount of drama as the american public watched lawmakers struggle to elect a new speaker. that is largely thanks to c-span. radio tv gallery told the

washington post that c-span was given permission for its cameras to visually roam across the camera. once a speaker is confirmed c-span will go back to its normal procedures. what they mean is the house will go back to its normal procedure, which is the house controlling the cameras, what you see in the chambers. unlike a hearing, where we have our cameras in the room and can show you what is happening between members of congress, conversations, the dynamic between the witness and those asking the questions, now this week during the speaker vote we have been able to show you those side conversations happening in the back of the chamber like you are seeing right now from this week. the conversations between those 20 holdouts and mccarthy allies, or what is happening over on the democratic side of the aisle as they continue to vote round after round.

it says here in the washington post article, quoting one of our colleagues, ben o'connell, c-span's director of editorial operations, he says he hopes the network will be allowed to show more of it to the american public. those visuals are speaking to viewers in helping to tell the story of the speaker election. imagine if we were able to do that when there is a major piece of legislation. i think code be far more engaging for the american people . the voters would really be able to see who is talking to who. let's go to brett in tennessee, independent. caller: hello. i think this whole thing that is going on with the election for the speaker of the house is a good thing for america to see. with the way they are going in the way they are fighting over it, is actually a good thing.

it shows that not all americans are agreeing with each other. sometimes we can agree, sometimes we can disagree. if we think a person is not responsible, let's not let them have power. host: mike in appleton, wisconsin. democratic caller. what do you think? caller: people are under the impression they will negotiate their way out of this. you do not negotiate with insurrectionists. the way this is going to end, there is only one way. that is to find six republicans to vote for jeffries as the speaker of the house. these people do not want a different leader. they want to throw a monkeywrench into the system of

government. they want to burn the house down , and that is what insurrectionists do. these 20 we are talking about, and they are more, 88 when you add them all up, anyone who voted against the certification of the election should be considered an insurrectionist because that is what they are. i am so disappointed that justice has not moved quicker. it is the two year in rate of the event that was clearly in planning for months. in terms of bringing justice to these people, they are wandering around? host: we will leave it there. beth in florida is a republican. we go to you next. caller: greta, i am so disappointed in the republican party. i have been a registered republican for more than 50 years. i have participated in

republican activities since i was five years old with my parents, who were both disabled veterans from world war ii. my mother has a bronze star. she was in the army for 11 and a half years as a chief nurse at a field hospital in italy and africa, and my parents would be rolling over in their graves if they saw what the republican party has become. i want to apologize to all of the american people for my vote in 2016 for matt gaetz. i am so sorry that my district, the first district of florida, has reelected this guy. he is an insurrectionist, he bills himself as a firebrand, and his whole purpose is to burn down the constitution of the

united states. if we think this is a sideshow that we are looking at right now, this is what is going to go on for the next two years within the house. right now we do not have a government because the insurrection from two years ago failed. it is winning right now because the insurrectionists are in the house and we have no legislative body. the senate is unable to do anything on it sound. host: you voted for matt gaetz and 2016. did you not vote for him in the following elections since then? caller: i've only voted for one republican since. that was our former county judge , who sat in the 2000 recount,

and i sat on the public side of the cordon and he sat on the others and we talked during that whole recount. he is now in the statehouse. he is the singular republican i have voted for since 2016. i am so upset with what the republican party has become. host: got it. cnn has this headline this morning. "house adjourns for third day without pimping a speaker in longest contest in 160 -- without picking a speaker in its longest contest in 164 years. kevin mccarthy continues to suffer a string of defeat as the fight for the gavel drags on. it has now become the longest contest in 164 years.

talks have continued among republicans as the gop majority hopes to find a path forward. negotiations between the mccarthy allies and opponents are pushing for a deal in an attempt to show progress, according to sources, in the talks." they will meet in a conference call this morning to discuss this deal, and then the house will reconvene at noon eastern time. keep your tv here on c-span. we will bring you gavel-to-gavel coverage of the house. you can also watch on our website, c-span.org, or if you need to go out and about today, you cannot be near a television, download on your phone the c-span now mobile app. it is free.

marion in waldorf, maryland. democratic caller. caller: good morning. thank you for accepting my call. i have to say the republican lady who spoke from florida, she is clear eyed, she is an american. she understood we are not to be separated by blue and red, democratic and republican, but we do label ourselves. at the end of the day i am an american and i am glad she is clear eyed and could see through a lot of what the republicans from florida did, and i hope more americans come to that point. about mccarthy. this is my theory is he will be voted in today, the anniversary of the insurrection, because this will be allowing, they will vote for him to go in because he has given them everything they

want, power, positions, to where they can begin to execute all of the things they started two years ago. i would be most surprised if mccarthy is not voted in today. i think that will beat the statement to say we are here, buckle up, because it will be a wild ride for the next two years. host: what happens -- if kevin mccarthy can get these 20 republicans or at least five of them, or more than five, he can lose four votes, if he can get enough votes, the magic number of republicans to support him, what happens going forward under these concessions he has made? the washington post reports that moderates who had pledged never to support the rule change have taken the holdouts at their word , but warned that if it is

misused, the power to vacate the chair, they could stand with democrats and use a procedural maneuver called a discharge position -- not allowing legislation to come to the floor. moderate republicans are saying they will band with democrats and user procedural maneuver to circumvent the rules committee and gop leadership to force a floor vote on bipartisan measures. other concessions, such as changing the budgetary rules and voting on 12 your office limits for house members were also under considerations. until olfaction signed off and commitments were written in stone, members would continue to vote in the same way through thursday. steve in massachusetts, republican. caller: greetings from

massachusetts. the birthplace of the gerrymander, where we have 11 blue congressional districts. what a surprise. i am enjoying this week. this is democracy in action. i look at politics as a philosophy. epistemology is broken down into two areas. empiricism and rationalism. empiricism is trial and error and that is what democracy is. rationalism is planning as an upland community, upland society . not saying that isn't a bad thing, but i feel it leans more towards totalitarianism. i know a lot of people, their hair is on fire, generally on the blue side. i have no problem -- the

republicans are ruling the week. they are the only ones in the debate. for the 20 people opposed to mccarthy, i would like to harken back to trump who was really misunderstood. he was in america first person just like woodrow wilson, who was neutral. president trump got in front of the united nations and said we will never surrender america's sovereignty to a nonaccountable, unelected global bureaucracy. this was in reference to the international criminal court, but regardless, the words are strong. one more thing. i am a leukemia survivor and i did a lot of reading last year. one book i found, jeanne kirkpatrick, she referred to it. the book is by carter's national security advisor.

i had my wife by for me for christmas for $50 and i found you can online on pdf. the title of the book is "between two ages: america's role in the technological error." the book refers to things as the fiction of sovereignty, and he is looking towards the future, and it is a globalist perspective on the world. host: i am going to leave it there. scott wong of nbc news reporting mccarthy map unclear how the gop reaches 218 today. matt gaetz is hell-bent on taking out mccarthy. "we have zero trust in -- " let's go to eric in albuquerque, new mexico. independent. caller: good morning.

i voted libertarian for 24 years. when i see this going on, i think it is kind of funny. when i talk about government say they're not getting anything done, i say that is a good thing, that means they are not spending our money. there are a lot of people who do not want to see this thing. i do not think the world is laughing at us. i've have seen the house of commons in england where they are about to come to blows, their insulting one another. this is nothing compared to that. i do not understand why mccarthy does not realize he'll never convince at least four of those people to vote for him and he should step back. he is not entitled to be speaker

just because he raises money or because he kowtow to trump. they should look at someone else, maybe steve scully's. i am not a supporter of -- maybe steve scalise. i am not a supporter of republicans but it has been entertaining. i am looking forward to more votes. host: you can watch on the website or our free mobile app. we will take your texts and tweets this morning. tom in michigan says their attempt to overthrow legitimacy, our government is an embarrassment. how can the rest of the world trust us again? new chaos every two years. joe in milwaukee, the problem with the speaker vote is it is not between candidates separated

by two votes. this is a disaster because it is all or nothing. the gop needs to drop mccarthy and put together a decent human being as a candidate. one more. this is what happens with extreme gerrymandering used to subvert the will of the american people. you end up with unserious, low intellect people, who choose their voters instead of voters choosing them. host: maryland in santa ana, california. democratic caller. good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: weekend. -- we can. caller: there are certain people who should not have been elected in the first place based on the fact they took part in organizing and protesting and stating that the big lie was true. what they are doing is telling

not just republicans but people that their vote does not count. the only thing that counts is what they want. they are electing the people they want in office, and we do not need people elected and running our government who took part in an attempted coup. that is exactly what it was. they should not have been allowed to run for office. trump should not be allowed to run for president when he organized and told people to go and attack our vice president based on the fact that he is supporting the big lie. this is something totally unacceptable in our government. host: let's hear from melanie, republican in lawrenceville, georgia. caller: i have two things to say. first for the people calling in saying hakeem jeffries should be the leader of the house, he was an election denier in 2016.

the second is the term insurrection is a legal term that is meant to keep people from voting. if you are turned into an insurrectionist your vote is taken away from you. that is all i have to say. thanks for taking my call. host: david in san francisco, independent. you are up early. what you think of this fight for the gavel? caller: a couple of different things. america is being used as the poker chips in this. it is the 72 hour rule still in the works with this? a couple of days ago mccarthy allowed that a bill had to be read within 72 hours, otherwise that was it. if it was a 900 page bill, it

still had to be read within 72 hours and then voted on. when you start looking at america's assets as poker chips in this situation, it really raises the specter that these people not only have no loyalty to america. you can see that with the infrastructure bill. they were elected to be representatives from districts of america and each of those districts have needs and the infrastructure bill was supposed to be designed to bring money into those districts to bring it up to standards and they never wanted to repair our property. now they are using our assets as poker chips in this bargaining fight.

i appreciate the woman from florida's first district decrying matt gaetz. if i understand matt gaetz comes from a wary -- from a very wealthy family and i would urge the people of that district to boycott that family. his parents have done nothing to check him. as it -- as a spoiled rich boy he wants to sell out america. we do not only have to boycott his family but we have to boycott the kochs, who are some of the biggest welfare cheats. they've created nonprofits to celebrate political action committees. host: on your question, cnn has a quote from ralph norman, one of the republicans who has consistently been voting against kevin mccarthy. norman says the majority of the deal being talked about right now revolves around rule changes like the 72 hour rule to review

bills. that is what they want. term limits and open amendments. norman says the deal does not address committee assignments. host: joe in pennsylvania. democratic caller. we will hear from you. caller: how are you doing. good morning. i want to say something. this new senator, thing, the leader of the house. how can we elect a leader of the house when they're letting politicians vote in that lie about their job application and stuff like that? how can you trust any of them. if you apply for a job in the real world and you live, you do not get the job. how can we tolerate this kind of action in the government? that is all i have to say. host: joe referring to representative elect george

santos, who has been in the chamber this week voting consistently for kevin mccarthy. on the senate side, news yesterday that broke. debbie stabenow will not seek reelection in 2024. this is from michigan radio. we will see who decides on both sides of the aisle, who decides to seek her seat. pennsylvania, republican. who do you want to be speaker? caller: who do i want to be speaker? i would like to see steve scalise but he said he would not go there as long as kevin mccarthyas running. the whole situation -first of all, thank you for your endurance over the past few days. evenings and early mornings.

the whole thing with the ongoing votes, personally i do know -- i do not care whether it goes days or weeks. democracy is messy. let it play out. i have never seen so many of them in one place at one time actually doing something. the ones they consider zealots are actually getting things done as far as changes to how they are doing things. actually having debates, backroom deals and then bring it to the floor for a vote. the people of america need to hear what is in these bills, who is voting for the bills and the pluses and minuses of it. host: cliff and the u.s. virgin

islands texts us to say kevin mccarthy should make a deal with the democrats. he should do the right thing and turn towards the center and not hard right insurrectionist. kevin mccarthy promised the american people he would work with the american people if they're willing to work with him. this a be a unique way to do that. give them some seats at the table, chairmanships. now the time for bipartisanship. sue in maryland, independent. what do you say? caller: it has been good for the nation to see this and i am happy there are 20 representatives that happen to be republican, i am thankful there is free thought and people willing to say enough of the spending, enough of somebody thinking they are entitled to a spot, enough of kowtowing to the other side, and i hope it continues. i also think it has been very enlightening about the democrat party because they are acting like a bunch of trained seals.

they do not have any independent thought, they do what they are told. the guy who when he did talk about matt gaetz's family, let's talk about hakeem jeffries. what is so great about this guy other than nancy pelosi who rules the democratic party like she was a prison warden, told people to vote for this guys. leonard jeffries, his uncle, is one of the biggest antisemitic people in the nation, a follower of louis farrakhan. why are these people voting for hakeem jeffries? i do not want kevin mccarthy to be the speaker. i want somebody who has independent thought. i do not know why somebody has not nominated tulsa gabbert. i think she would be a fabulous speaker. hold your ground and do not allow kevin mccarthy, who is an establishment rhino, who has

matt gaetz says when you're going to clear the swamp you do not put the biggest alligator in charge. keep it up, the 20 people. maybe the democratic party and the people calling in need to go back to their history. there is only one group of people who were insurrectionist who seceded from the union, they were also the party of slavery and the ku klux klan, and jim crow. if you want to talk about oppression let's look at the trained seals called the democratic party. host: mapp in dallas texas, democratic caller -- matt in dallas, texas. democratic caller. caller: i am glad i got to follow her. here is the problem with the argument that it is good to have debate. i want people to go back to election night, november 2022. kevin mccarthy said he was excited to fire nancy pelosi.

excited. i cannot get that out of my head. now he is the one who might be fired. i have heard it mentioned a few times in the speeches for kevin mccarthy that 85% of the republican caucus voted for him to be the republican leader. all of the sudden they wanted to take that back. i just have to say, i am so proud of the democrats sticking together. it has been 212 votes for jeffries, not once, not five times, 11 times. all democrats. if mccarthy was really interested in being speaker he would have tried to pick off a few democrats to join in getting him speaker but he does not want to go that route because he cannot control his own caucus. no matter what you think of nancy pelosi as speaker, she at least could count votes. she at least made sure when she

brought something, whether her speakership or a bill to the floor, that they had the votes, her and steny hoyer always made sure they had the votes. i think it is hilarious the way some of the republican callers are trying to portray this as great for democracy. you cannot even govern yourselves. how are you expected to govern bills and rules packages and all the other complicated things. host: fox news this morning. "at some point the numbers are going to change. the question is whether kevin mccarthy has the right cocktail members in the chamber to vote for him. it will hinge on who is absent and whether those present or absent the or oppose mccarthy, be they republicans or democrats." we know of some of absences. ken buck had to leave for a

medical appointment. he is expected to be out for some part of today as well. others have personal family obligations the need to attend to. it will come down to numbers. who is in the chamber and who is not. host: teresa in arkansas, republican. caller: i've been listening to a lot of this. water two votes against mccarthy and taking a stand, but these 20 or trying to rule the house. they are doing it. host: it is interesting because you and others keep saying the number 20. there is a 21st republican, victoria spartz, who is voting present. she is not betting against mccarthy but she is not voting for him. caller: you are right. that is going to change the number he needs as people vote present. what i want to say is i am

disappointed in mccarthy because to be a leader sometimes -- i do not want him to step away, i want him to get it because even though he is not my first choice, i think he could be good and i think he could grow into it, not be a nancy pelosi. he has given away his leadership position to get those votes and they have not voted for him and he keeps giving and giving and they keep wanting more. it is time when they have their meeting that he lays the line down, this is it. i have given you everything and i'm taking it back because you will not play ball. how does he get the votes? guest: we deserve what we get because we can't come together as a party" for something. people say ye, republicans, but

let those 20 people explained to the district why they didn't vote and why we have jeffrey's needing the house. host: do you think what happened with the republican base over the next few years if that came to fruition? guest: we wouldn't get anything done, like the last four years under the democrats. maybe the republican party will wake up. i have been disappointed that the republican party cannot find common ground to work together. like someone pointed out, nancy pelosi had to make a deal with aoc and they came together. i heard the guy who left the house to run for governor of new

york, let him come back and lead. i am thinking why do we need an outsider is a can't get it done inside? i read something that set a lot of the new people in the house are because karthik got out and recruited better -- because mccarthy got out and recruited better. host: there has been reporting on that. guest: he brought these people in to have a wider base of people to do things. i know a lot of people say it steve scalise that he might be good. jim jordan is more of an investigator and don't see him in the leadership role. host: i am going to leave it there because i want to share with you and others before we take a break about what could

happen, because it has been president for it, dyer circumstances could lead to unusual procedures. this is the hill newspaper. twice before, 1849 and 1856, the house elected a speaker right plurality. it was something of a last resort and came after 59 and 129 failed ballots. the majority of the whole house would need to agree to got resolution. we are going to take a break. up next, david macon tosh -- david mcintosh talks about the battle to speak -- elect a speaker of the house. brad sherman joins us after that to talk about how democrats are responding? -- responding in the strategy

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: david mcintosh is here to talk about the speaker election. your group has been playing a role in the speaker election. before we get to that, explain what is club for growth. guest: it is the largest conservative political group, where we advocate for free markets and limited government. we have a pac that supports members, a super pac that gets into elections with independent expenditures. we are the third largest super pac and his been over hundred million dollars in the last election. we focus on people who are champions for less government, more freedom and free markets. host: which side of this stalemate is club for growth on? guest: last fall after the

election we laid out three principles without they should use in picking a speaker. we didn't pick a person, but we said the new speaker should go back to the rules that were before in 2014, where members could vote on amendments, stop using leadership pacs in primaries running against republicans in agree to open up the process and have the vote of no confidence and put conservatives into your leadership teams. you create unity by bringing the conservatives in those were the principles we laid out. and i have to say the members have done a great job of negotiating toward those principles. we leadership packs and speaker mccarthy if he is speaker who has used in the past and endorsed and that super pac agreed to our request of not

getting involved in the primaries. the members have a rules package that looks good. they tell me they are reading through the details. we are pleased with how the process has moved and is a former member of congress, i think it will restore a more democratic process. host: what have you heard about the deal that is emerging? we understand republicans will hold a conference call this morning to walk members through the details. from your sources on capitol hill, what did you learn last night? guest: from talking to members and folks there negotiating, i think what they have agreed to is a process where they would restore the vote of no-confidence and they would have rules that would allow members to have amendments but put some guardrails in bite including some conservatives on key committees. host: rules committee for one. guest: every bill that goes on

comes to the rules committee. and a process where there are automatic limits on increasing spending. we have over $31 trillion in debt and the republicans have said we have got to stop this runaway spending process with bills that nobody reads and they come to the floor at the last minute. they wanted to put breaks in the process so people could look at the spending and get rid of wasteful spending. host: do you think this latest package is enough to sway some of the 20 republicans, the magic number two elect kevin mccarthy as a speaker? guest: i think they stood up for principle and done a great job and i know they have been beaten around the head and shoulders but i think there are men and women committed to having a better house and more democratically run house.

if the details prove what we are hearing is correct, i think that is a good deal with kevin mccarthy and i think it will help and be a good speaker. i think the folks who negotiated them are honorable and trustworthy. what happens when you get into these fights is tensions go up and people don't trust each other and they feel like they might have been lied to so you have to restore trust. patrick can be trusted to keep his work and i think the 20 will be satisfied that things will run differently. host: the washington post is reporting that if there are conservatives on the rules committee and they object to bringing a piece of the decision to the floor, moderate republicans are saying, we will

go around and go to democrats and we will get a discharge petition to circumvent the rules committee and gop leadership to force the vote on bipartisan legislation. were not in that situation with how the house is run. guest: let me step back from the conservative moderate dynamic and say that all the rules are designed to say let the will of the whole house will forward they put a break so everyone can be heard in of amendments but in the end have to run house of representatives the conservatives can't as a minority block everything, and they recognize that and the moderates can't force the conservatives to do things they think are wrong by putting it into the omnibus bill.

what happened when i was there in the 1990's is we had conservatives and moderates, the speaker, newt gingrich, said go sit down and talk to each other. i am hoping now the conservatives and moderates will spend some time talking to each other and to be able to have a republican position that represents the principles the party won the majority on democrats, republicans -- democrats (202) 748-8001, republican -- democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002.

for the one member, how will this play out? guest: speakers have led the house knowing the motion was there. at the same time, members knew that as a last resort when you are really frustrated and you have expressed your complaint and try to have an opportunity to have your voice heard represent your constituents. i think now what it essentially does is check to make sure the leadership have to keep the deal they made. members will need to go back and that is a last resort. i am hoping what it does is restore the process the house ran on for a long time. again to let the house function so the speaker can't block the will of the house but the members also can't block each other. bring things to a vote. that is the best thing to happen because then you know, do you have a majority or not and you

can move forward that way. host: democratic caller, good morning to you. caller: good morning. i just feel the republican party is hit a sad state of affairs. they can even get it together to get kevin mccarthy nominated as speaker. they need to remove the blindfolds and learn something from the democratic party because even though hakeem jeffries is the nominee on the other side, he has 212 votes and he only needs six to get the majority. people talk about nancy pelosi was so bad but nancy pelosi knew how to keep the democratic party unified.

these guys can't even get it together. host: let's get a response to that. guest: nancy pelosi, you are right that she created new rules that gave her almost dictatorial powers and used her political arm to threaten democratic members, if you don't go along with what i want i will primary you or work against you in your political future. that type of rulemaking you some results in a house but it ended up creating the partisanship we have now and creates distrust. i have talked to democrat numbers who quietly come off the record say they are hoping the new rules package will go through because they want the chance to bring amendments. also having listened to hakeem jeffries, and i am not one of those republicans that doesn't listen to the other side. i have optimism he will be a

breath of fresh air in that party and willing to let everybody in the party express but also reach across the aisle when they can find an agreement. we will see if life changes when nancy retires and goes back to california. i hope the house goes back to running the way it used to as a great democratic organization. host: alfred in illinois. caller: how are you doing? guest: great, how are you? caller: i just am watching people. they are showing me that it is sort of a kangaroo court. if you don't go along with what we think, then you are out. host: is this putting the

republican party, david mcintosh? guest: we had to go through some pains to get there. there was hope they could have settled this two months ago, not in front of the tv cameras, but kevin mccarthy wasn't willing to make the concessions people needed and it all played out on the house floor. the good news is it ended up with a good result. host: was that a mistake? guest: i am a believer in transparency and i think it is healthy to see the house function and fight and disagree with each other and then come to a resolution and say, we can get something done. host: america is paying attention. guest: they are and i think it is good. host: what about the argument on the other, that our adversaries are watching and this is a

national security threat when you cannot get your government in order and in place? guest: i think three days of settling who is going to lead the house of representatives will be fine. you look at the issue of china, strong unity on the democrat side that they have become a national security threat. it would be very unwise for a foreign government to think this would weaken the united states. host: so you think there's a result today? guest: i think there is a good chance. host: and, with carolina, democrat, go ahead. caller: all of the spending. i think the first thing republicans need to do is suspend that 2017 tax cut for the wealthy and corporations

that would make a big difference in terms of the deficit. that is a major deficit problem. the second point i would like to make is the concessions the 20 are demanding give one person a lot of power to make a decision, not an organization, club, union that i am aware of does 1% have out of that responsibility and capability of doing with the 20 are demanding of the speaker. the way it is set up, it seems like the speaker may not even be there more than one day or two days at the most. host: we will have david mcintosh respond. guest: the tax cut bill brought in more revenue when they reduced the taxes because people had an incentive to go build more companies, hire more people, create more wealth in

the company. if we added those taxes right now, it would throw us into a recession and be a terrible economic burden on the american people. the problem with dent is the spending problem. -- with the debt is the spending problem. this is actually a more democratic giving power to the whole body rather than consolidating it into one person. nancy pelosi consolidated it into her office as speaker and these rules spread the authority in the house and power in the house across all of the members. everyone can offer an amendment to the rules committee will have people on that will say yes, we will bring amendments to the floor. it is going to be much more democratic, i mean with a small d, for everyone in the house. host: richard, philadelphia, independent. caller: good morning.

i have a question for both you and david mcintosh. if something should happen to president biden and vice president harris that they couldn't serve, god forbid, who would be the president of the united states as things stand right now? guest: that is a very good question and the constitution lays out it will be the speaker of the house. when the house has chosen a speaker, that person will be third in line for the presidency if a disaster occurred, as you say, heaven forbid. host: if there is no speaker, it will go to the senate pro tem, who is patty murray right now. guest: yes, she would be number four in line. and then it goes the cabinet based on seniority. host: republican, go ahead. caller: i can't understand what he is talking about.

he is talking to schumer and flu season mouthpiece. ask how many times the cameras were on the border and showing how bad it is. host: we are not following your point. caller: is on the wrong show. he should be on one with democrats. you have a moderator that is a republican. . host: albert in new jersey, democratic caller. caller: this is my third time calling in about five years, but i think this is the great it -- greatest civics lesson america could ever have. the way it works in congress, i was never aware of how interesting it is, and i feel that this is the best thing that

ever happened to america. thank you very much. guest: thank you. i agree we have a great system of government. it is messy and i think it was winston churchill who said democracy is a messy form of government, it is just better than all of the others and we are seeing democracy play our people with different opinions have to argue and eventually get a vote and you work it out so you can get things done with a majority. host: gail in iowa. caller: i just want to say there is not a sitting representatives that did not get there by independents. they represent us all, every single one of us and people seem to forget this is just part of a party or yes they represent their party and more importantly

they represent the people. and the holdouts are getting concessions and getting stuff done in days that would take weeks, months, years that would take to get done. i applaud this. guest: i agree with you wholeheartedly. the biggest frustrations i think on both sides was individual members couldn't represent the whole constituency by offering an amendment to a bill. it grew and grew and grew and you finally saw plenty of them speaking for a lot more members sang enough, we want to be able to do our duty and represent everyone from our district by participating in the legislative process. i agree with you completely. host: are there some in the group of 20 who are never?

it doesn't matter what he concedes to them, they are just not going to vote for him? guest: some of them, matt gaetz look like it would be one of them, but i am hoping that is the passion of the moment and they will step back and look. yes, kevin mccarthy is the person who would be speaker, but it is about a larger question about how the house of representatives will function and how do we do work on behalf of our constituents and behalf of the people of the united states. it looks like some of it is just never kevin. we will see in the coming days. my hope is that those who feel that weight will get a good nights sleep last night and wake up and say, is this a good deal or good way to move forward, let's get together and make it happen.

host: if representative mccarthy cannot flip enough of the 20 to secure the votes he needs, who is the consensus candidate? guest: i don't think people have worked on that question yet. host: who would you like to see? guest: that is a good question. i haven't thought a lot about it. a couple of the names that came up, all of them would be great,, and they weren't asking to be nominated so hopefully people would see that they weren't parts -- you have people in the moderate side angry about everything, but folks like that who could reach across all the different ideological divides in the republican party and get to that's magic 2018 number. host: kevin, new york, republican. caller: capable of, on a few

things that were said, very true in my opinion about nancy pelosi using the rulings as a pictorial function. kevin mccarthy, getting concessions, i don't understand why it is up to him. the republican party should tell him this is what we want. the 20 that are standing firm and not voting for him because of this, i applaud them, great people doing the right thing for their constituents. and if i could pick somebody to be the speaker of the house, i would look at trey gowdy or someone very similar to him. thank you so much. guest: i think if trey were still there, he would be right on that list.

people trusted him and that is what kevin would need to build as the speaker and rebuild his trust. host: you said it was the former speaker who put in the rules, but the washington post notes that the open rules for offering amendments during appropriations bates ended with republicans -- debates and it with republicans because they were offering amendment after amendment, so unable to defeat those amendments, republicans shutdown open rules process and pelosi taking power for years ago ruled with that iron fist when it came to amendments. so republicans put that in place. host: i winced -- guest: nancy pelosi use that to jam through obamacare back in 2009 and then

adopted it more formally. you are right, it was the republican congress who changed the rule package and that was a mistake. and then nancy this time around went even further, the whole proxy voting, that creates a much less democratic process where members don't have to pay attention, they can just phone in a vote. your point, from what i take on your questions, his response ability on both sides. let's say it yes and moved back and correct it and get to a better rules package. host: in tulsa, oklahoma, democratic caller. caller: yes. host: good morning, philip. caller: i think the republicans are doing the country a favor, because there is no way congress is spending the people's money

on frills and for me stuff. as far as the irs agents, mccarthy and the republicans should take them and put them on the southern border and take others and put them on the northern border. host: david mcintosh? . guest: i am going to focus in on the spending comment. that is the number one problem this congress will face. again, spending too much money started with republicans in 2019 , 2020 and got worse and continue with biden in 2021 and 2022. this congress has to say we have to stop this continually adding hundreds of billions of dollars

to the national debt. it has caused inflation so that working families in this country suddenly have a 10% pay cut every year with this inflation. congress is responsible for that runaway spending. the new congress has to say enough is enough. we have to get back living within our means. host: three is a reporting at 10:00 15 a.m. eastern time when republicans will hold -- there is reporting at 10:15 a.m. eastern time when republicans will hold a meeting but some doubt it is a good meeting. leaders should want to push mccarthy across the finish line. teasing that is a mistake? -- do you think that is a mistake? guest: they just go for a vote and make a decision?

meeting and better is person because emotions can get high but you can put a phone call on and multitask and not pay attention. some of the members have gone home, so it is hard to bring them all back in person. i think they are doing their best to try to now explain what the new package looks like and undoubtedly explain why it is important for the people who were acting to say yes, for the folks who were supporting kevin to say yes, don't get upset that he made concessions, and for everybody to come together. host: you said some have gone home. you know how many went home and will be the magic number today? guest: i don't know where everyone is. i assume they have a pretty good whip process to keep track of the members. host: ed, washington state, independent. caller: my question is that in the last 20 some years there has

always been a discussion about term limits. i was really liking what they were doing but now that i am listening to what they are doing , i like what they are pushing and they are standing up. haven't voted republican in years, but i like what they are standing for. the other issue i have a question for is, there is all of this about supporting the war in ukraine. i am an older man and served in the marine corps. guest: thank you. caller: you're welcome. i grew up in the 80's with ronald reagan and russia was always our enemy. why are the people liking russia now? we have somebody fighting a war for russia in they are a proxy

for it. if we can do this and we can russia, why does the republican party not want that? i don't understand. guest: let me start with the term limits question. it was one of the demands the 20 were asking that there be a vote on a term limit amendment, and what they want is just one term limit version. the supporters vote, the last time back in the 1990's they had three different versions, so everly could split off in vote for different versions and you couldn't -- so everybody could split off in full for different versions and you couldn't move it forward. who support term limits just want one vote on one version to

see where it is at. and i believe where that is that there will be a vote on term limits for the constitution. on russia, let me take out the corporate growth because they don't take positions on foreign growth our national security, but i agree with you because i am of the same demographic. i grew up in the cold war era, ronald reagan used surrogates in afghanistan to push the soviet union out of afghanistan. russia is an enemy of the united states. there may be corruption in ukraine and problems, but they are fighting against one of the two biggest enemies, russia and china. wife should we support the freedom fighters there? i think -- why shouldn't we support the freedom fighters there? i wanted to hear why, in the

last 20 years, they are hearing american the golf and other places -- gulf and other places to try to come in and be the policeman so we got involved in wars we shouldn't be involved in and we sent our young men and women to die. and they are worried, is this another case where we are just being warriors just for the sake of fighting. when you step back, the strategic positioning is clear. if ukraine is there opposing russia, and protect europe. we don't take a position on that at the club for growth. host: next caller. caller: thank you for having the on. my question is, considering the

finance laws in place for pac's and the club for growth and kevin mccarthy having reached an agreement, green he utilized leverage of the super pac and the club for growth to make a concession of sorts, i just wanted to see if there are any lines being blurred in that regard, considering it is a bit of a fine line that seems to have an lured with mccarthy reaching that concession -- to have been blurred with kathy reaching that concession. host: let's get a response. guest: that is a good question. i will get technical because the details matter on this. kevin didn't go shade that as a member of congress and in fact the lawyers told me he couldn't

and shouldn't. what we did was work with the leadership with a group called the congressional leadership fund and it is the biggest republican super pac. kevin has endorsed that super pac's of people know he thinks that super pac for republican donors to give to. our super pac is called club for growth action and so we reached an understanding that in safe -- state republican conceits, clf wouldn't send money but focus on marginal seats and the general election to win more republicans and expend the majority. that negotiation was important to the members, because some of the members felt clf had spent money or sent money to other super pac's to be against them in their primaries, but they

wanted some assurance that the leading super pac's in the country would go against them as sitting members. i was happy to make that understanding, but it was done with the executive director of the super pac coming out with kevin. host: so the congressional leadership fund that kevin carthy endorses t statement saying clf will end in any open seat primaries in publican districts and clf will not grant resources to other super pac's. clf has never spent a dolla against a republican incumbent before and obviolye will continue that policy in the future. cl will support incumbents in primaries and challengers that affect the majority, which proved to be critical in winning the majority in 2022. is there something you're not true? guest: that is the understanding we have with that super pac.

host: they said they have never been at dollar against a republican can incumbent. guest: i know, and i don't want to challenge them on that but some members feel they did it maybe indirectly. that the biggest donors sent money to other super pac's that worked against them. i think the larger sense of this is republicans aren't going to be fighting each other in the safe seats with big dollars coming in. individual donors can still spend their money. that is the right they have. we have now reached the agreement, let's not fight there but work together to get strong candidates in the general election and have the republican party be able to expand his majority. host: clarence, west virginia, republican, good morning to you. caller: good morning. thank you for the opportunity to talk. david, i appreciate the

information you are giving us. it is an educational opportunity for each citizen to get involved with the government and representations. i support change and congress going back to making 12 budgets for each operation. the omnibus is basically describing the public and paying off donors. one of the things i think would be the most important things they could do is put back christian values. i applaud the 20 people who are standing up to make this change. so i think you for that opportunity. guest: thank you, i appreciate that. personally, as a believer in god

, i turned to him for guidance in everything i do and i know a lot of the members do. i also know god isn't partisan, he is not republican or democrat, so i think there are folks on both sides of the aisle that that. when our leaders seek humility to follow the god they believe in, i think our country is better off. host: ian, wes mystic, colorado, democratic caller. caller: i just wanted to say, i think in the upcoming speaker house elections, it is going to be very hard for mccarthy to pull of a victory, partly because the freedom caucus is holding so much leverage. i think there will be a lot of concessions mccarthy has to wait -- has to give if he wants to be speaker or there will have to be

a new republican candidate for speaker. host: you agree with that scenario? caller: -- guest: yes, i think that is right and we are seen that happen. patrick mchenry is negotiating for kevin mccarthy and has made critical concessions. they look like they are good concessions that will improve the house, but he has made those concessions and i think that is a path for him to become speaker . host: when the house reconvenes at noon today, what do you think will happen? will they moved to adjourn again as they work this out? guest: i think it depends on the numbers. if there are enough people in the chamber they can get to a vote -- let's assume the house freedom caucus members have said yes and read through the details, assuming that is true,

then they have to say, do we have enough members present to get the job done? host: is that a problem right now? you referenced that twice. guest: i don't know who went home and how many there are on either side. you would hope if they are close to the numbers you could kind of get a consensus among everybody in the house and let's move forward, we have done enough of this and we know with the outcome would be if everybody is here so let's have vote. i hope that is what happens. host: what are you watching for that a deal is agreed to? guest: i think we will see statements by the folks who negotiated it. by the way, i want to commend chip roy, andy biggs, they didn't just hold out and say never. they worked hard and stayed up all night last night it seems in with patrick. they are heroes in my book.

they have done a great job and will make the house of representatives better. host: springfield ohio, john is watching their, an independent. caller: one of my concerns is how kevin mccarthy, i believe, has started many of the problems trying to get a speaker voted in. anytime you move in an office before you are collected, it is going to pose a problem. guest: i was puzzled by why he did that. one of the best things to do as a leader in washington is remember that you are just like everybody else. a little humility goes a long way in these leadership positions. that probably was a signal that he shouldn't have done. host: david mcintosh, club for growth president, we appreciate

the conversation as always. thank you for being here. guest: thank you and great job with what you do. host: when we come back, we will continue this conversation. at the top of the hour, we will talk with brad sherman, emma pratt of california, join us to talk about the democratic perspective of what you have seen happening on the floor the past three days. we will be right back. ♪ >> the national political correspondent for nbc news, you see him around campaigns and election nights come in front of what the network calls the big board. he recently finished a podcast series called the revolution steve kerr nike, -- steve kerr nike --steve karnacki. it was organized in lead by

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today for a possible 12 balance -- ballot. live coverage right here on c-span, c-span.org and are free mobile app, c-span now. you can take your phone with you and watch and listen on our app. before we get to calls on the speaker impasse, want to show the latest economic numbers with you the unemployment rate in december was at 3.5% in -- and to hunt 23,000 jobs were added. that is the latest -- 223,000 jobs were added. that is the latest. john james, a representative elect and the nomination speech for kevin mccarthy here listen

to a little bit of it. [video clip] the first time we met was in his office under the gaze of a frederick douglass painting. he told me in that office, on the eve of of the 2019 state of the union address, there is nothing that could be said or done during that address that embarrassed him more than the fact that when the democrat side stood up, they would look more like the united states of america then we did. he set out not the compromise our values, our ideology, but to work harder to make sure more people with diverse perspectives and different lived experiences could be here. in the next election, he went up 14 seats and all the seats he won were with minorities, women and veterans. the next cycle, he won in me and my good buddy and classmate

helped double the number of lack republicans -- lack republicans -- black republicans in office. [applause] we have a long way to go but we have come so far and we can't quit. you don't fire a guy who is winning. you look at the governors mansion's and the legislation we have lost this past cycle and you look at the gains kevin mccarthy has made a pillow, -- made uphill, the mainstream media likes to laud the leadership of nancy pelosi, but kevin mccarthy one it back half of the time uphill. you want to talk about people who can win, i am alliance fan -- a lion's fan.

we need to learn how to win and learn how to take a victory. with kevin mccarthy's leadership, he has given us victory on rules, keeping costs down and winning a majority. i am so proud to be part of the majority making class and he has earned my trust and hopefully he has earned your trust and he has 90% of us in the conference. when is the last time anyone has had a 90% approval rate? kevin mccarthy you will see over 90% approval rate. if you want to make history, let's do it the right way. we need a conservative fighter to help get this country back on track. we need to elect leader mccarthy as speaker of the house. host: from the floor debate yesterday and action over voting for speaker, and there were an historic 11 rounds of voting here house convening at avocado

p.m. eastern time. join us here on c-span for more on the possible 12 vote on also c-span.org or c-span now. host: democratic color, we want to hear from you. caller: there are 435 or 434 representatives. host: 434 because there is a vacant seat after the death of a virginia democrat, and that won't be filled until february, just to be clear. caller: 434 right now, and i think it is terribly wrong that 20 people can dictate this. if they want to make changes, they should do it in the proper way, not disrupt our government. host: dennis, and florida,

republican what do you think? caller: i am glad i got through. i think the answer is mike pence. he should be in line for that job, because it is the second most powerful job in washington, d.c. they should ask mike pence because he is a top republican. they forgot about mike pence altogether. host: a reporter for bloomberg on capitol hill noticed the house glb except our 10:15 a.m. conference call to discuss what is being called a framework of a hoped-for deal to get mccarthy the gavel. his hopeful backers say he has agreed to a lot of things and believes more votes will come his weight today. keith in new york, independent. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: david mcintosh isn't with

us anymore, but go ahead. caller: my question was, what were some of the possible outcomes and fallouts? host: say that one more time. caller: what is the likelihood of democrats swooping into secure mccarthy's leadership in the house and what would the outcomes of that look like? host: brad sherman will be joining us next and we will ask him that question. host: stephanie in wylie, texas. caller: i want to say, i am a policy person, not necessarily a party person, because i have voted publican in the past although more recently i voted -- voted republican in the past but more recently i voted democrat.

we are now into day three and you have 20 people who have hijacked a process that historically the person that is in line to be speaker of the house, they already have the votes, but you have a small minority that have hijacked the process. we have been without a function congress without -- for three days now. now that there are deals to get mccarthy the gavel, i think it sends a bad message to the american people that for the republican led congress to get things done, how many more deals will have to be or can the same 20 be pulled up the process to get things done -- 20 hold up the process to get things done. i met the biggest nancy hello see fan, but she ran house with

a small majority. the seats they had wasn't big but they still managed to pass legislation and get things done. the publican party out of the gate can't even elect a speaker. this sense of horrible message. host: at the beginning of the week, the house made history and yesterday the house made history again. mccarthy fights to lock down a deal in longest speaker contest in 160 years. that is the headline from cnn. chris, a republican, hi. caller: i am agreeing with the 20 republicans peered what i wonder is, they do the voting alphabetically -- republican goods. what i am wondering is, they do the voting alphabetically, why

don't they vote for jeffries and then after that, the next two at the end of the of the bet vote for jeffries and put an end to this? it seems like all they want is someone besides mccarthy. i am sure there are plenty of other candidates out there. host: you think republic is -- republicans would consider voting for a democrat and lose their majority and be led by democrats? caller: absolutely come what is wrong with that, because they still have the majority in the national and in congress. i don't see why they don't do that. after the next round of voting, the other 90% should put over a new candidate. it seems like all they want is not mccarthy. host: up next, representative brad sherman of california discusses the battle over the speaker and the democrats'

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>> washington journal continues. host: we are back with brad sherman to talk about the history unfolding on the floor. what is up and like to witness this? is it a good thing that americans can see the process playing out and there any attention? guest: is good for people to pay attention, but what they are seeing is an ugly picture. it's not as important as what will follow after this is all over. democrats are learning the word

schadenfreude. some of us can even spell it. it is the best thing to be in the majority. the second best thing is the total disarray of republicans, but what matters is not kevin or steve or this. how many votes, what matters is what happens to the american people. are we going to shut down the government or default on her debt? those are the two things that we create, we have stop it. host: why do you say that? what will lead to that? guest: the specifics they're asking for is vacating the chair with one person raising the vote . that is a gift to democrats. if there is a vote on vacating the chair, and is just one person, that's one person delaying the body, but if it's 20 or 30 or 50 of them, and kevin is going to lose the speakership if we vote to vacate the chair.

host: you would? guest: not necessarily. i think by tradition, we are going to vote for our nominee for speaker again and again. there could be a departure, but it felt like. a vote to vacate the chair, there's no particular tradition of that. sometimes you vote this way sometimes that way. i look forward to the vote, and if the crazies want to put him in that position, anything that empowers them is a good idea. host: there have been talks this week that republicans like kevin mccarthy and others have been reaching across the aisles to democrats to strike some sort of deal on the speaker vote. are those negotiations and conversations happening? guest: banter is happening. in the old days, there used to be an overlap between democrats and republicans. most liberal republicans were

overlapped with most conservatives, that is gone. these are very separate bodies read people are saying, why don't we just -- what and kevin reach out to a conservative democrat and a cup five or six posts? once he picks up those votes, he loses 10 or 20 republican votes. if you wants to cut a deal, he cannot pick up five or 10 of us. we are so united he cannot pick that up. we have to cut a deal with leadership. but what i hope happens, and i don't think this is a kevin mccarthy that is cutting a deal with democrats, but rather than kevin mccarthy who cuts a deal with the crazies members, what matters is and this is policy. if he puts the crazies in a position to stop them, or to not allow congress to vote on increasing the debt limit, we could put the world in a major

recession just because of the craziness going on on the order. right now it's just entertaining read --. host: is it fair to call them crazy. guest: it is shorthand. they are taking positions that are extreme, in terms of public policy, but how many of them should sit on the rules committee and how many of them should be on the republican steering committee, i don't care. what matters is, are they going to say, we are going to play a game of chicken whether the united states default on the debt with the goal of forcing diminishing social security benefits. crazy is a blank term for risking the economy and the united states in an effort to destroy social security or undermine it. host: one of the concessions they're looking for is an open rule on those that come to the floor. budget bills. they want to offer amendments.

is that a good idea? would you appreciate that russian mark --? host: that is fine if it is put in a position where anyone can bring up -- i've always liked open rules, especially when i am in the minority, but ultimately, the republican majority has a dual gas has to do 40 hearings on hunter biden's laptop. it's all going to drive c-span ratings. i know you don't have ratings, but what matters is can we just get through this year? we have to pass an agriculture bill, and the key thing is to not shut down the debt and put us in a position where you are trying to force democrats to accept cuts in social security. host: cbs news is reporting a

quote from kevin mccarthy entering the capital. going to make progress and shock you. when asked whether the framework of the deal will be enough to end the impasse, and when pressed on whether he can get there today, he promises progress. guest: they are 20. the anti-mccarthy, plus one present vote. they have been very solid. 11 votes. kevin things he can pick off hath -- half of those. it puts pressure on the remaining. what is interesting is donald has no power. my god, he could deliver one vote to kevin mccarthy. any democrat could deliver one vote but we are not going to do it. he could deliver one. he's got -- she's been criticized on the floor of the house. by republicans. hopefully, we see the end of

donald trump. host: let's go to christopher in california, democrat. is it nevada, colorado? caller: nevada. guest: you are up early. caller: i am. host got it right. your tone and adjectives and personal attacks to the people who are upending congress are not right you should say the on live television you should save it for the closed-door sessions when it's just you and other representatives. second, i think you've got it wrong. , kratz have the power right now. you said you need 20 or 30 people. you guys could extend an olive branch to someone being attacked by their own party. you can set a precedent for the country right now that we can be bipartisan. , kratz think we are going to get the house speakership. it's just not going to happen right now.

guest: we are not going to get a democrat elected speaker. we have not floated that as a likely outcome. i have and leaning forward on the idea of what kevin mccarthy could propose to our leadership that would be useful for the country. those are two things. first, allow the democratic leader to bring to the floor when necessary a bill to raise the debt limit. a clean bill. nothing else in it. if such a bill were brought, and it were necessary, it would pass. the problem we have is that if mccarthy sells his -- it puts him in a position where for his own desire over the desire of the most extreme and his caucus, he refuses to bring up a green debt limit though. that is a problem. we have to invest in the democratic leaders and the right

to bring a continuing resolution, so that when we get to october 1, if we don't have the appropriations bills, we don't shut down the government. right now, the republicans have those to stranglehold on america. they can block the debt limit increase, they can shut down the government and by god, if the republican majority in the house can do it, there are some in that majority who want to do. sometimes kevin and sometimes not. host: ron is a republican in san clemente. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking the call. congressman, one of the brighter people in congress. always a great pleasure to ask you if -- a few important questions. kevin mccarthy is flawed goods to begin with and canned goods, secondarily.

the question we have here is, if you go to an open role where everyone can add earmarks for questions about additional amendments to something, it will flaw the system so badly that absently nothing gets said. the senator said years ago that he used to fall asleep in the senate because it was too boring, because that's what would happen constantly. so my question is, it may be of benefit for the democrats to have an open rule, but isn't it a net deficit for the republicans? guest: it is certainly weakening the speaker and the republican leadership to have an open rule. it is even better if it is open and should be to both democrats and republicans. it empowers individual members, and it makes for longer sessions.

as to gumming up the system, there are very few things that are good that congress can do. in the next year. we will hopefully, as i go back to, not raise the debt limit when we need to come and keep the government other than that of there are a couple of bills, and then there's a whole list of bad things that the house of representatives might you, and if were too busy to do them, that's a net plus. host: dan in oregon, independent. caller: good morning. i have a comment. i think this is a healthy exercise in the american system of government. this is the way the founders designed it. it is not about unity are going along to get along rid is about the people. we need a spirited debate in order to hammer out these issues

, and not just go along with the status quo. it is a very healthy thing going on, even though it seems chaotic, but that's the way the system is set up. host: let's get up response to that. guest: i'd rather have a debate on the transportation policy and the tax policy. a healthy debate on whether donald trump should be nominated as speaker of the house of representatives, so, i am all for healthy debate, and it is good to spend time where we are all in person's name, rather on c-span in our offices. what we are supposed to be debating this week is republican effort to strip out the irs. what we've seen is the number of

irs employees per tax return that's filed is almost double and the democrats are able to pass a bill to return our irs status to her was under ronald reagan. i told my colleagues, staff are already support this. every time a billionaire successfully cheats on his taxes, a member of the freedom caucus earns his wings. or pitchfork. they are of favor -- in favor of disempowering the irs, and all the auditors under the program will be auditing people of incomes over $40,000. you look at donald trump's tax returns, you can see examples after examples of tricks used. i am the only democratic cpa in congress, they are all there. most of them would, many of them would be subject to audit, and the irs has signed one auditor

to donald trump's entire empire. the irs needs to be adequately staffed. ordinary people really can't cheat on their taxes, i don't think it they get a w-2 form and a 1099 from their bank account, and that is a. whereas, in donald trump's economic position, if you are not effectively audited, you end up paying your taxes. host: this is supposed to be the first piece of legislation. dealing with the 87,000 new tax pieces. guest: a lot are devoted to service. i remember when you called the number, some would answer. we need to return to that and put service and put service in the internal revenue service. we need to have a staffing level per tax return back where there is one employee for every 2000 returns. host: what has been the rumor about these new tax agents that

you want to clarify? guest: the idea they will be armed is absurd. there are very few internal revenue service books that are armed. they are little police forces in so many of our federal agencies, but that is eight out of 87,000. a lot of this is to not increase things but replace people who are retiring. a huge percentage of irs employees are retiring over the next 10 years. the big thing is you are not going to see additional audits of wage earning americans. you will see additional audits for complicated structures, and that is what annoys the republicans. they think it is rooting for the tax cheat. they want to disempower the federal government, and they are rooting against the irs. they want to defund the irs. if you defund the irs, we don't have any money to avoid

defunding the police. one goes with the other. host: catherine, democrat, burlington, new jersey. caller: this is catherine from burlington. representative sherman, i would like to ask you, at what point with the democrats consider helping the republicans get across this stalemate that they have here. they can get on with the business of doing our work. happy new year. guest: happy new year. first, it would require kevin indicating that he would like to talk rid if that became public, it would cost him support in the republican caucus. so, if it ever became public, he would be betting his chances on being able to cut a deal. second, instead of empowering the most extreme right-wing, the folks were so part of the right that they won't follow donald trump, they are trump year than

donald. they would need to be concessions that you look for, like how many democrats versus republicans in each committee. committee ratios. if you follow tradition, the staff will only be half as large as those of the republicans. we are 40% of congress. maybe we should be 45% of the staff. the right to bring the bill to the floor. that was complete we controlled, but my certain bill and action could be brought up by certain members of the minority or other, and the key thing is the clean debt limit increase with a continuing resolution, and those powers need to be in hakeem jeffries hands.

he doesn't want to negotiate, but ultimately, while schadenfreude, watch the other side disarray is frankly great politics for us, there is a certain enjoy, maybe not so hidden, but as much as we like to see the other party in disarray, what matters is what happens this year to the american people. we have to prevent shutdowns. host: mary's in wisconsin, a republican. hello. caller: good morning. i just want -- republicans have not been in charge of representatives, the house, and in regards to the covid vaccine, they had done a study in the year -- and the european link for athletes, and before the vaccine, there were 29 heart attacks and athletes, and after the vaccine, 1500 have had heart

attacks, and two thirds of them have died. if you were in charge, you should probably pursue the idea that it's not misinformation and that the vaccine has affected people's lives. that's a little more important than going into a recession which will probably happen if republicans continue on discussing what they want to do for the future. host: ok. guest: i am not aware that study. i strongly recommend vaccines. we lost a million americans to this disease. we would have lost double, triple, we still be losing at a very high rate if it wasn't for vaccines. even if you reach herd immunity without a vaccine, this virus mutates. if we don't have effective

vaccines and updated vaccines, this covid is going to be killing lots of americans for a lot of years. host: barbara, kansas. democrat. caller: i want to say i am a democrat, but i think we need both parties, and i support liz cheney. i think we are missing the boat. i think she was getting enough democrats to follow her to get a consensus. guest: i would like to have liz cheney as speaker in comparison to any other reasonable alternative. i do not know a single republican member of the house, and none of us are members, we are members elect, but i don't know anyone with a green pin who is a republican who would vote for liz cheney. host: the pin is new. that is the pin you will whereafter you are sworn in. guest: same pin, you are allowed

to wear pins from prior congresses as well. they all work for security purposes. i own more pins 10 suits, so i leave a pin on every suit. host: that brings up eight good point. you have been serving for many years in congress. one of the concessions the republicans are looking for is term limits. i assume you are opposed to term limits. guest: we have term limits. it is a two-year term. finney go to the voters of the 42nd can rational district, they know i've been there long time. in some of them think it's a good thing is a bad thing. if the 32nd district was to elect me, who wants to tell the district to they will vote for. but that's the kind of -- we will have 40 messaging bills passed this year. we might pass that one. that's an example of how they are -- the 20 republicans are helping democrats. we will have a vote on a

constitutional amendment. i don't think it gets two thirds in the house, and whatever it is, goes to the senate. chuck schumer has a big enough budget with eight shredding machine. there it goes in. we will have messaging bills like that, but that may be hard for some republicans to vote on. especially if they've served more than three terms. so, what mccarthy is doing is not diminishing for democrats, but if he prevents of -- a vote on that bill, he has doing it for republicans. bring up bills that split the caucus and because some of them to vote this way and some devote that way, and many of them to deal a dilemma. if i vote this way, i look bad in the general election. i will look bad in the primary.

bills that are that far over on the spectrum, they are very easy for democrats. term limits are different, but on some bills, bring up a bill that reduces social security. i will vote against it and it few -- and a few members will have a heartburn. i don't want to touch social security. host: we are talking to brad sherman, elected in 1996. we will go to jeff in missouri, republican. caller: good morning. one thing that really stood out was folks getting upset about the round of 12 and unprecedented numbers. 20 folks are pushing back. when i look at the numbers, i look back to 2000. our debt was $5 trillion. at the end of this year, were

going to be at $33 trillion. you want to look at some numbers, these are numbers. i'm surprised there are not more than 20 pushing back. 50% of our oil reserves are trained. food inflation is rising skyhigh. i want to look at those numbers. guest: we have good numbers and bad numbers. today's employment of her's were good. food prices are bad. we are refilling the strategic oil petroleum reserve now. the debt limit is concerning. efforts to prevent us from having an active internal revenue service, it makes taxes voluntary for billionaires. obviously, it increases the deficit going forward from here, so that is an important issue we need to deal with. as much as i democrat, it is nice to see publicans in

disarray. host: ray and napa, california. caller: yes, i am here. host: we are listening. caller: i am here, hello. host: please listen and talk through your phone. caller: hello? host: i'm going to move on trade you have to listen and talk through your phone. please meet your phone. -- television. caller: good morning. sorry, i'm not a good speaker. i have three things. one, i am higher -- i walked away from politics when the whole trump krapp started happening. but the name calling, it is very irritating for a lot of us. the crazies, the hijacking, the held hostage, it is so

irritating to hear this. those 20 people are actually representing in doing what they're supposed to be doing. they are representing people. not all of us feel this way, but they are doing their jobs. my third thing, i am not familiar with all of the roles and everything, but how far is it going to go until mccarthy actually steps down and somebody else replaces him. guest: well, the record is 133 votes. all of the records about this destruction -- dysfunction were set before the civil war. people say we are more dysfunctional. in the 1850's, it was worse, and it was worse, and was followed by civil war. i wouldn't draw too many analogies between now and then. as for how long this goes on, 133 votes is the record.

kevin mccarthy has said he has broken the record problem the speech has been given on the floor the house, and maybe you will break this record. records are made to be broken. if he steps aside, it is possible that the 20 who voted against him will vote first police just because they've got a had to put on the wall. they haven't actually gotten any substance they've wanted. maybe it's a little bit more to their liking. but, they won't get the rules changed that they are pushing for. they'll be able to say we've won, and sometimes, politicians haven't actually done anything to affect public policy. it will bask in what they call a victory. i don't know if there is -- mccarthy makes the point that there is more support than

anyone else for mccarthy. no one else can put together 200 votes, aside from the 217 or 18 needs. i don't know when this ends, but frankly, i hope it ends with a speaker who is cutting a deal with democrats, rather than a speaker who is cutting a deal with the folks in congress who i disagree with most. this is not about how many messaging bills they pass or how many hunter biden the we have. it is about the two-point psyche coming back to. we shut down the government or shut down our debt? if we come out of this, knowing that the debt will happen this year, democrats will achieve a lot. host: republicans are holding a conference call around 10:15 a.m. eastern time to walk their members through this emerging deal. it came about yesterday with the 20 defectors. we will learn more as the

morning goes on. the house will reconvene in noon. you can watch here with gavel-to-gavel coverage. noon eastern time on c-span on her website. c-span.org, or if you cannot be near a television, you don't have to mission -- miss a minute. you can download the app now. ron, democratic hunger -- caller, you are next. caller: these notes want democrats to help them now that they need help, but they didn't want to help us when we needed it. but we were in control. they wanted to block everything. the caller that called in a said we shouldn't be calling them, ease to rethink that. they are nuts. they complain about immigrants, they are saying things like build a wall, but we are going to stop illegal immigration.

trump ran on building the wall. they have to pay for for the entire presidency, and what happened? they had control of congress and the presidency, they couldn't get it done. they called a democrat when they are actually the ones that do nothing. they put a spin on everything, and in fox news, they do the all day, and they tell lies, spread lies, spread misinformation, and they don't answer questions. when you estimate question, they don't answer. they deflect. that's what they do. host: i am going to jump in so we can get a response from the congressman. guest: at 10:00, democrats are on the steps of the capital commemorating january 6 read that as a day that will live in infamy, and it is a day when there was an attempt to deprive america of democracy. to substitute mob rule and

prevent the peaceful transition of power pretty true member that. and for the caller's comments, people say they don't like do-nothing nothing republicans. i prefer them to the things they want to do. i don't think democrats are interested in helping republicans, but we are interested in helping the american people. host: is there a piece of legislation like the infrastructure built that the republicans democrats could agree on in the house over the next two years? guest: i think we will pass an agricultural bill. i'm an expert on culture. they tell me there may be a few improvements in our agricultural policy that from an urban district, that is not necessarily focused on. nutrition programs are all and

that it's well. i would say the policies adopted by last congress when you had a democratic majority are kind of a democratic majority, they are policies that we have to keep in place rather than policies that kevin mccarthy and scilly's and those to the right where adopt. a do-nothing republican congress is like the best republican congress i can think of, but it means don't dishonor debt or shut down the government. don't do those things. host: thank you for the conversation. we will take a break, we come back, we will continue to get your thoughts on the fights where the speaker's gavel. stay with us. we will be right back.

>> washington journal continues to >> we are back. thank you for watching. we will continue until the top of the hour, getting your take on the stalemate. making history with 11 rounds of voting. still no speaker yet. the house will reconvene at noon for 12 boats. kathy and indiana, democrat. let's hear from you on this. good morning. thank you for what you do. i can play them on. i've been watching you for the last couple of days, and for the last couple of days, on the republican line, people say, they are being held hostage. they are hijacked that kind of thing. they're holding things up, they are, but as a democrat, i think those people and their opinions count. there is something they know, something they feel that kevin

mccarthy is not the guy. he is not the one. even though, i am a democrat and i vote both ways, i am towards the middle. i think that is an important thought that everyone should be listening to because otherwise it is all republicans. and all democrats. host: listen to what kevin mccarthy said this morning at the u.s. capitol. reporters were there to capture him walking through the hallway, and he apparently told them we are going to make progress. we are going to shock you. we are going to shock you. he said, when we reconvene, you are going to see progress on the republican side. in his favor, he predicted. caller: i don't doubt that at all, and i feel like kevin mccarthy would not be my choice, and we really can't expect him

to say anything else but that type of thing because that is his hope and dream, but i wonder about that. i know people are nervous. they are afraid to vote against him, and they can make some kind of stand against trump, but i hope that those 20 people are -- or their 17 people voting for whatever the case may be, i hope they stand firm with their -- i know it's holding things up, but i want things done just as much everyone else. but this is important. they feel he is not the guy, and i feel like we should wait it out. host: all right. robert, republican in miami. did you hear the caller? did you grew there? caller: i think we are to find a speaker on the republican side who will do one thing overall. we just went through 45 years of

investigations, and i think that according to this book which is a great book called the plot from hell, which showed that hutton -- hunter biden and devon archer and chris pine who is john kerry's stepson, they were sent out to extract money from russia, china and the ukraine. it says in the book that joe biden knew about it and participated in it. if we have a president who is taking kickbacks from communist countries and owes chips to calming us countries, we need to investigate that, the speaker of the house needs to make sure we investigate that as much as the russian collusion, tax returns from trump and every thing else, and we need to go after the biden organization and find out the true story. the laptop from hell. host: baltimore, independent. caller: yes. in this whole process, i think what it is showing me is that

democratic lawmakers need to be careful -- about the joy and elation they have when think about this disarray. it comes off tone deaf voters and citizens who are seeing this for the first time in their lifetimes. they are concerned and curious and vigorously educating themselves but this process and what it means. i think this is a gold opportunity for democrats to get the right message across, but all of the messages coming from the floor are coming from those holdouts. they are refreshing talking points, but they're coming from the wrong people. it's a point that democrats and republicans, every lawmakers need to take the opportunity to see if this is resonating with the american people because i think it does. i think it's a frustrating process, but what's resonating right now is a message being sent by this process, and i think there is an opportunity for democrats and republicans to capitalize on it, and i think we are missing that with these boats and lack of negotiation

and willingness to put forth the right message from the democrats. host: sounds like you been watching the proceedings and conversations that are happening right there on the floor. you can see the members of that group of 20 talking with mccarthy allies on the house floor. is that all important to you? what do you think when you are watching, what are you thinking? caller: i'm not sure what to think. if you had a microphone implanted right there, that be more helpful. host: or we could read lips. caller: i have been trying. but it's been difficult to understand what is coming across in terms of what i'm seeing which is matt gaetz, who is and never kevin individual, and others who have fallen into that category with gaetz. they are continuing to vote for

who they feel, or anyone but him. to each their own, but i am not see much solution or hope for that. if we do get to a point where kevin is elected speaker, with holdouts coming through, i am concerned about the rules and resuming a status quo, and giving away to the extreme side of things because i think these messages are coming from the wrong people. more extreme individuals. host: on this emerging deal, the washington post's written that in an effort to lower it from five to one, the number of members required to sponsor a resolution to force a vote on ousting the speaker. a change that a california republican previously said he would not accept. mccarthy also expressed a willingness to put members of the freedom caucus on the rules committee. debates and legislation will

move to the floor, and he relented on allowing floor votes to institute term limits on members and enact policy legislation. those are apparently some of the provisions in this agreement that republicans are going to discuss at 10:15 a.m. eastern time in a conference call. the mccarthy team will walk the team through these details, and then we will see what happens when the house of representatives reconvenes at noon. we will have our coverage on c-span it, of course, on the website, at c-span, or you can download the mobile app now. philip, maryland, legislator caller, was hear from you. what do you think about the speaker stalemate? caller: i think matthew gaetz is grandstanding, and putting him

in a room, donald trump gets no support at all. his name's been on the ballot three times. only one vote? host: what do you think about that? caller: i think trump has got to end. even fox news cannot support these people. did you see the argument between lauren boebert and sean hannity the other night? even their influence over the party may be waning. host: listen to what matt gaetz told fox news. here's a tweet from the daily caller. i love president trump, but hr wasn't always his strong suit. i think president trump is wrong to the extent that e-sports kevin mccarthy. i'm not going to back him on this plate. philip? caller: i'm not sure what he's trying to do, but in the soundbite you played earlier, he had no problem with trying to get donations out of it.

he said to go to his website and give money and so on. i think it is placating trump, so he is not a twitter person. host: we've seen fundraising emails for both sides of the isle over what is happening this week. caller: i think democrats should hold strong, but with mccarthy going with hat in hand, good for them. it is a pure majority, natural majority, and they've won 11 times already. this 2000 votes for hakim jeffries every time. host: in other news, we heard from president biden yesterday, and he will make a trip to the border on sunday.

this is the washington times. biden pivots to border pathways with expulsions to mexico after monthly limits. he is going to mimic trump's policy on title 42. here he is at the white house, responding to questions about why he has decided to visit the border this weekend. >> why is now the right time to visit the border? republicans have called on you to do this. >> the republicans have not been serious about this at all, come on. they have not been serious. i want to make sure that i knew what the outcome, than your outcome was on title 42 before he went down. i don't like title 42. but it is long now. i have to operate -- it is the law now and i have to operate within it. title 42 is going to go away before the end of the year in terms of the supreme court, my prediction is that we will use title ix or eight.

eight come, right? title eight. 8, 9. we can input what we are doing, with some other things. but i wanted to make sure that there was a rational way in which we could begin to announce this. i couldn't wait once the supreme court ruled that we are not going to make this wild decision on title 42 for who lowe's -- who knows how long. i don't know that for a fact. we need to lay this out. host: president biden at the white house. we have about 10 minutes. a little over that. teresa in tennessee, republican, who do you want to see speaker of the house? caller: that's a hard question. host: it sure is, isn't it? caller: i have other issues i would like to suggest. my question is, the media, you,

everyone has gone mad over every person that donald trump has put up as a candidate or whatever, but now, everyone one of them supports this person that donald trump supports. msnbc, cnn, joe scarborough, fox news, democrats, they all love kevin mccarthy. and i want to know why? what has he promised all of those people that make him so accessible? if you know this, not one has called joe biden an ultra radical. that is one point. and you keep talking about what kevin mccarthy has conceded on for the maggot republicans, so what i want to know is, have you

ever seen 200 republicans stand together and not one of them defect? what has kevin mccarthy promised the 200 that not one of them will back off and say we need another candidate that can win? and one other thing. let me get it. they all say they hate the maggot republicans. the democrats, the media, all of these people hate them. but if they accept kevin mccarthy, they are going to be run by them. these republicans are going to be the speaker of the house. and if that is important that they stay with kevin? here's what i think kevin promised the 200 and the democrats.

they promised more money, and he promised to give them more money in the ukraine. the payoffs are black male to zelenskyy because they're all being lack milk, they have to make payments, and he offered to do a clean debt limit without any concession. you heard brad sherman say he had to have a clean debt limit. how can you trust kevin mccarthy any which way you put it? how can you trust him? i like what's his last name? donald's. i like that man. i like the man who hasn't sold his soul to nancy pelosi, joe biden, chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell. the one thing that broke the camels back is the $1.7 trillion omnibus bill. i will never vote for another republican again, not even trump, and trump is wrong. he is wrong.

host: ok, nancy, milford, new hampshire, independent. caller: what the heck is she talking about. this is ridiculous. the audacity of the republicans not wanting democrats to come to save them? what have they been doing for five years? what of these people done? nothing. host: charles, buffalo, new york, independent. caller: the most critical question is the future of america in the hands of these people. these people are a circular firing squad. they are not competent or capable of leading us into the next century. in the hands of these people, all of them, democrats republicans, it is a circular firing squad, and we've got to

as americans with commonality of interest, we've got to find a way to get out of that hole crew. thank you. host: ok. this is fox news from capitol hill. fox has been told it is believed that the new proposal by mccarthy could get him to 200 and 14 votes. that may not cross the threshold. remember that if the majority of those votes by name that he needs, 434, which it sounds like there won't be, the magic number is 218. it matters who shows up, and what name they say when your last name is called by the clerk. the other tweet as a thought that it will be one vote at noon, and they will see what stance. it will be damming for the house speaker candidates if the

houseboat shortly after noon and he still fails to alter any votes. noon eastern time. that is a 12 vote. that's the one to watch. that's the movement in their favor. international falls minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. i keep hearing, there was a gentleman on from maryland, and he used the correct terminology, and he said the word holdouts. i hear you keep using the word defector. you are absolutely incorrect or holdouts. as a difference between a holdout and a sellout, and there was a lady on a couple of minutes ago, and it explained the omnibus bill that was pushed to the senate.

they don't want the family. there was something like 17 senators over there, and those are defectors. those are people who are screwing over the party and leaving us out. and kevin mccarthy didn't know what was going on. he should have known what was going on. he is in a pickle where that is why we are at where we are at. i wanted to explain that. don't use the term defector. use holdout. i thank you for everything you're doing, and keep up the good work read host: all right. most leadership considers boebert, rosendale and bob good to be never kevin votes. this deal has to lock up the following republicans. the holdouts. perry, roy, gosar, self, ogles,

rick keim, luna, crane, norman and more. people jump aboard if mccarthy is getting there. noon, eastern time. make sure you are watching here on c-span. c-span.org or mobile app. baton rouge louisiana, john, democrat. hello. caller: i just one to say this is a mess. putin is sitting back in his chair just laughing away at how yes, democracy is here, but this is disorganized. and i would like to say that mccarthy doesn't get it. republican should be -- hakeem

jeffries is a nice way to get it, because he is a democrat, but moderate republicans would be mad because he has said he will force them to fund the 18 ukraine. that would be dangerous. i'm a history major. one of the things from world war ii, we should have learned that it dictator and bully, you have to stand up to it. putin overran ukraine, czechoslovakia and poland will be next. we have to stand up tierney. richard is an independent in liverpool, new york. caller: first of all, your earlier guest, mr. brad sherman.

as much as i appreciate his service, 27 years as part of the problem. i support the 20, 10% of the republican elect are finally causing debate. i don't think we have enough debate in congress. i don't think in general, the country which i love so much, both sides, the democrat and republican. i believe it is broken. i think our congress is broken and it is refreshing though disturbing to many, but i think people get too involved with their feelings and i think it is time that someone stood up and i

hope good comes from this disarray in the house. host: so who do you think is a consensus candidate? do you think kevin mccarthy can get there? caller: well, i don't know enough. i hope that they can resolve this, whether it is kevin or whoever. but the point is, it is great debate. i think this is what is needed. i don't think the country is happy with all sides of government and i think that is why we put them there. they have to make the best decisions and i am proud of the 20 who are at least trying to make change because i believe in most of the country believes that this government is broken and when the democrats march and lockstep, that is really scary. i just appreciate the republican

holdouts are trying to cause debate. i think we need much more debate. host: it is 10:00 here on the east coast. the fight for the gavel drags into a fourth date today. -- fourth day today. noon eastern time is when they will bring you convene their session and a 12 vote will take place for speaker of the house. concessions have been made, there seems to be a deal in the works. we will see what happens when they convene at 12:00 p.m. eastern time. watch on c-span, our website c-span.org or on our free mobile app, c-span now. can from pittsboro, high can. caller: thank you for taking my call. the point that i want to make is

that if the democrats are so high and want to get back to the business of the country, i think it is a foregone conclusion that some of them have to vote with kevin mccarthy. they are never going to get democratic candidate as the speaker for the next two years. if they want to get back to the business, they would basically set these 20 off to the side and elect kevin mccarthy. get back to the business of our country. host: i will jump in because on the house side, the former speaker of the house is joining the democratic leadership led by hakeem jeffries right now on the east part of the u.s. capitol to mark the two-year anniversary of the january 6 attack.