118th congress. it is your access to the federal government with contact information for every house and senate member, important information on ocean committees, the cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. preorder your copy today for early spring delivery. tonight on q&a, a law professor talks about 19th century lawyer and his impact shaping america's national identity prior to the civil war.

>> he did not think the union was free today. he thought he knew that a third of our population was enslaved and the union was the vehicle for ending slavery. >> tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span cuban day. you can listen to all of our -- c-span q&a. you can listen to all podcasts on the c-span now app. ♪ morning, it is sunday, january 8, 2023. as the dust settles from the battle of house speaker, tension

turns to the u.s. mexico border were president biden will make his first trip to the southern border as president later today. this morning, we want to hear from you. do you have confidence in the biden administration's approach to the border crisis? how do you want the republican-led house or democratic led senate to respond? what solutions do you want to see from washington when it comes to the border and immigration? democrats, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. publicans, your line is (202) 748-8001. independence, call that independents --independents call (202) 748-8002. if you live in a border state, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8003.

you can use that same number to send us a text message. you can also find us at facebook.com/cspan, on twitter @cspanwj and on instagram @cspanwj. president biden is headed to el paso, texas today. he is going to meet with federal, state and local officials, as well as folks who are working in various agencies and nonprofit organizations providing shelter and other services to migrants. here is how the el paso times newspaper set up the visit. headline says president biden plans to visit el paso sunday. here's what you need to know about the trip. president joe biden will visit el paso sunday to address new border enforcement operations. the administration announced

thursday it will immediately begin turning away cubans, haitians and nicaraguans who cross the u.s. mexico border illegally. it has been closed to asylum-seekers under title 42, a public health protocol by the cdc under the trump administration beginning in march 2020. many of the people arriving to el paso currently are from countries like nicaragua, where the u.s. cannot expel them. instead, the administration will accept 30,000 people per month from the nations for two years and offer the ability to legally work, as long as they come legally as eligible sponsors and pass background checks. what beau biden do -- will bite and do-- biden do? he is traveling to delaware for the weekend and will travel to

directly -- travel directly to el paso from his home state. here is the president at the white house on thursday responding to questions about why he decided to visit the border today. [video clip] >> republicans have been calling on you to do this. >> they have not been serious about this at all. i wanted to make sure i knew what the outcome was on title 42 before i went down. i do not like title 42. it is the law now, i have to operate within it. my prediction is title 42 is going to end by the end of the year. then we are going to use title

viii, which we can implement what we are doing here, plus other things. i wanted to make sure there was a rational way we could begin to announce. i had to wait for the supreme court. they will not make a decision until june, in that range. i do not know for a fact. host: that was president biden speaking at the white house on thursday about the trip to el paso. we have updated information. he is scheduled to arrive around 1:00 p.m. and will stay for about three hours, meeting with those state and local and federal officials, as well as those working with various organizations that provide services to migrants.

let us listen to some of the response from republicans about the trip. senator bill hagerty of tennessee wrote on twitter if every american saw what i witnessed and what border patrol everyday at the border, they would call it a catastrophe. it is past time the biden administration and congressional democrats week up to the reality of the#biddenbordercrisis that turned every town into a border town. president biden's border security policies are a threat to the security of our nation. more known or suspected terrorists have been encountered attempting to enter the country between ports of entry under biden than ever before. another senator wrote in the past two years overdose dress --

deaths driven by fentanyl became the leading cause of death for adults 18 to 45. that is the result of open border policies. we must secure the border to protect americans. let us go to some of your calls. atlanta, georgia on the democratic line. how do you think congress or president biden should address the border issue? caller: first of all, good morning. i believe it is time for change. biden is trying to effect change for the good. until you start working the plan, you will never know if it is going to work. certainly what democrats were left with is not working. host: do you have any ideas what

you think could work, or do you think they need to get in a room and brainstorm? caller: i believe the misinformation south of the border is a cause of a lot of the problem to begin with. people think they can go up to the border and apply for asylum, and there is a lot of paperwork that has to happen. therefore, the systems and agreement with those nations that are allowing people to cross the border are not helping the united states in any way that is real and tangible. it needs to be looked at and some effective changes on how

people understand how they can legally get across the border will be necessary for them to change and realize status. the correct kind of status. host: appreciate your call. from pennsylvania on the republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. i am disappointed president biden has waited two years to visit the border. i want to visit one of his quotes, the republicans have not been serious about this. to quote him earlier in the show. that is crazy. in the previous administration, border security was their top priority, in my opinion, from what i understand. president biden, to quote when he said i do not like title 42,

i do not understand why a decade ago, there were speeches of barack obama and shoved -- chuck schumer talking tough on border security. about a decade ago, republicans and democrats were united on the fact that we need to get the border under control. whatever it takes. under the trump administration, that was almost accomplished. now, it is completely -- it is chaos now. host: thanks for the call. arlington, texas, independent line. what are your thoughts? caller: good morning. i understand the last caller's point of view. both the republicans and democrats are playing politics with this. let the democrats put something in place to secure the border.

to me, it is politics. i am old enough to know each time a politician comes in, they use it to benefit them. thank you. host: let us go to dolores in tennessee as a democrat. what are your thoughts? caller: my thoughts about the border, close the gates. shut it down. do not let anyone in here. ever since they started in the past two to four years, even when trump was in here, they were bringing drugs. some of the border patrol are molesting women and girls. they do not want to say that.

hagerty up there talking about the border, he is not doing anything here in tennessee. in memphis, there are murders every day. they are not addressing that. please do not cut me off. the republicans are the ones hiring the illegal people at companies, like down in mississippi years ago. they are the one hiring them, giving them drivers license in social security numbers. host: you mentioned a very valid point, there is a border issue, but a lot of companies say they need migrant workers for labor forces. what would you say to companies who say we cannot disclose the border completely, we need immigration? caller: let me tell you. a long time ago, before they started putting illegal people here, black people used to go into these drops on the farm.

tomatoes, apples, oranges and all of that. they found out they can get cheaper labor, that is what it is about. if they wanted to stop this, they would not hire them illegal people. republicans owned most of the companies here. that is where we should start at. host: we appreciate your call. let us go to the republican line from new york. what do you think should be done? are you with us? we are going to have to let him call us back. richard in north carolina, you are calling as an independent. what are your thoughts? caller: well, i think the lady before was right. we need cheap labor.

we have laws on the books right now for immigration in joe biden -- and joy biden is destroying those laws. --and joe biden is destroying those laws. they are cleaning up el paso so when he goes down there, he will not see any of this and will stand up and say there is no problem down here. how much money is he making from the drug cartels, him and his son, from bringing overall these drugs? he is a disgrace to this country. host: let us go to another caller. next is john in new york calling as a democrat. you are on. caller: i am a democrat, this is probably my main issue.

i definitely do not want open borders. there is no way this is a good thing for america. these caravans of people coming here. i want to address amnesty. these people are seeking amnesty . 99% of these people are coming here for a better life, just like our grandparents did. it is not amnesty, they are coming for a better life. you can't blame them for that, except one thing. everyone wants a better life, everyone cannot come to america. stay where you are and make a better life. they're going to come here, they're going to say i'm not here for a better life, i'm here for amnesty. i would do the same thing is -- if i was in that position. but it is the biggest lie in immigration.

they are going to claim asylum, they are coming here for a better life. host: john in new york, let us listen to tony gonzales of texas whose district is made up of several miles of the southern border, held a news conference with his republican colleagues along the border in november. here is a portion. [video clip] >> people do not realize that when uvalde went to lockdown, they went into lockdown 48 times before the violence occurred. 48 times. i see that same occurrence happening all over the district. change is coming. a week later, his to the president of the united states and i pulled him aside, and i said now is not the time, but i would like to visit with you in the white house to see how republicans and democrats can work together to secure the border.

my staff is called the white house every week since then. i urged the administration to work with house republican leadership to secure the border, because lives are on the line. we are not talking about, i wish we would, commerce and trade. there is so much more that el paso has to offer the world. re-shoring, taking stuff happening in china and re-shoring get to the united states and partners in mexico. we do not have those discussions. because our border is wide open, people are dying every day. these are the discussions i wish we would have in congress. host: back to taking more calls, we want to know what you think congress and the white house should be doing regarding immigration in the border ahead of president biden scheduled trip to el paso today.

on the line from lancaster, pennsylvania is bonnie, republican. go ahead. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i happen to have relatives that live in el paso. they've lived there for 60 years. their parents came here through ellis island and came here from lebanon, from the middle east. they had a car agencies down el paso. it is so unsafe for the grandmother and mother and son. their car agencies have had to close. the town is horribly decimated. this is not a republican problem nor a democrat problem nor independent problem. we need to build a wall and allow people to come through like they did with ellis island. come through legally.

one of the other problems is the largest lobbying group in the country, the chamber of commerce. they want the cheap labor. we have enough residents here to fill these jobs. but whether you're are republican, democrat or independent, they want cheap labor. these people will work cheap or live off of our welfare, hospitals and schools. complete the border, have people come through legally, and everybody will be happy. this is a problem that has gone way back. not just trump, not just obama, but biden opened the border to 5 million people in the past two years. 5 million. whether they are legal, illegal,

look what is coming through. fentanyl. he is going to get down there today, it is nothing but a picture taking process. we need illegal loss to be followed. thank you for listening to me. host: appreciate your call. let us take another, alexander in new york calling as an independent. what are your thoughts? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. some points are very valid, some are totally ridiculous. my opinion on this is we are not going to the head of the problem, we are going to the tail end. this is like a pipeline. our border is the end of the pipeline. the countries they are coming from -- a lot of them come from

south america, latin america. there is a problem down there. we are not shining the light on their governments. why aren't their governments addressing the problem in their countries? is it crime? corruption? whatever the issue is, we need to help them cure the problem in their country, and that will stop the flow, maybe even invasion, we are getting. if you want to bring in labor, give them a nine-month work visa. nine months, save your money. we charge a fee, then you go home. then you come back and another three months for another nine-month work visa. just keep working on their countries. our problem -- we have our own

problems. we do not need more. that is my opinion. host: let us go now to david in new jersey on the democratic line. what do you think should be done? caller: i think it is a big mess. i am a 60-year-old commercial fishermen, i used to fish down off of florida in the 90's when the haitians and cubans were coming up. i picked up quite a few out of the water area -- water. everyone should pray for them, there is people dying at this minute. florida is being invaded right now. no one wants to tell you, i believe they've had 8000 come up on the beach in florida. 8000 cubans and haitians, you

just do not know what it is like to be in a rubber raft watching the lights of miami go by. the seven we picked up were in little rubber rafts, 30 miles off of miami. they were never going to see land. they were going to take the gulfstream. it is a new slave culture they're bringing into the country. they knocked down all the monuments told slave culture, they are -- to old slave culture. those are the reparations. cheap labor slaves for everyone. it is -- the little pills coming in, they only catch a 10th of them. there's billions of them in our country, they are going to turn into body bags. we are going to be putting our

friends and relatives in them soon. it is going to be terrible. you know? we need to go down to mexico and straighten the place out. the cartels. -- the cartels own the country. host: appreciate your call. let us hear from janice in florida, calling as a republican. you are on. janice? we can hear you, go ahead. caller: i do not understand how a single person who voted for biden can find themselves upset about the situation and crisis. they told you what they were going to do. the entire two years that biden has been in office, they've been lying to the american people, flat out lying.

the border is secure, the border is closed, a flat out lie. we are supposed to believe them over own eyes host:. host:appreciate that call. the next caller is in pennsylvania calling as an independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i am a former marine officer, retired as a major. i have a sergeant that served in vietnam from el paso. i am in contact with him and he said el paso is like a cesspool. with biden going down there, they are cleaning it up like he would not believe. he is not going to get a true representation of what it is like in el paso. they are probably over in war is -- juarez telling the cartels to

knock down a shooting area he will not get a good representation. i may vote republican in the next election, 2024. i am worried about this country -- it is an invasion. it is an invasion and we should have the military on the order. that is all i could say. thanks for your time. i want to be brief. host: appreciate the call. here is how the associated press set up the visit. president biden is going to el paso this afternoon and it comes on the heels of him announcing a new border policy. several hundred people marched through el paso saturday afternoon. when they arrived at a group of migrants huddling outside a church, they sing to them you are not alone. around 300 migrants have taken

refuge on sidewalks outside of sacred heart church, some of them afraid to seek more formal shelter amid new restrictions meant to crackdown on illegal border crossings. this is the scene that will greet president joe biden on his first politically thorny visit to the southern border on sunday. the president announced last week that cubans, nicaraguans and haitians and venezuelans will be expelled to mexico if they enter the u.s. illegally. an expansion of a pandemic era immigration policy called title 42. the new rules will also include offering humanitarian parole for up to 30,000 people a month from those four countries, if they apply online and find a financial sponsor. i want to bring up video earlier this week. president biden, when he was talking about the policy,

refused -- accused republicans of preventing needed immigration reform from passing in congress. [video clip] >> the problems at the border did not arise overnight and will not be solved overnight. it is clear immigration is a political issue in extreme republicans are always going to run on it. now, they have a choice. the contract to score political points or they can help solve the problem. -- can try to score political points or they can help solve the problem. before congress adjourned for the holidays, some democrats and republicans got together and decided they would put together a conference of plan on immigration. republican leadership and others -- i do not know exactly who, rebuked and rejected it. just like they rejected my plan to years ago, just like they rejected my recent request for an additional $3.5 billion to secure and manage the border

with more facilities, better transportation, additional funding for 2000 new asylum officers and personnel, 100 immigration judges to more rapidly adjudicate for people when they come in and more. think about it. if we had to have 100 more immigration officers to see to it we are able to import something we needed badly, it would not take much time to do it. conversely, if there are criminal gangs coming into the nation. that when it comes to immigration, it seems like it is a bitter issue. we need more resources to secure the border. extreme republicans have said no. many republicans agree we should do something. it is time to stop listening to their inflammatory talk and look at the record.

i will sit down with anyone who, in good faith, wants to fix the broken immigration system. it is hard. it is hard on the best of circumstances. if the most extreme republicans continue to reject solutions, i am left with one choice. back on my own, do as much as i can on my own, to change the atmosphere. host: those were remarks from president biden talking about the difficulty he has faced in democrats working with republicans to create comprehensive immigration reform laws. what do you think washington should be doing about immigration, about these issues at the southern border? democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, call (202) 748-8001 .

independents, your line is (202) 748-8002. if you live in a border state, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8003. you can also use that number to send us a text, that is (202) 748-8003. back to the phone lines now. calling from florida, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what are your thoughts about what should be done? caller: well, building the wall is a waste of money and time. they already have tunnels going underneath the ground and everything, while will not stop that. i've met illegal immigrants when i was up in the new england states.

i've met illegal immigrants across the canadian border. people who are native and have been on the land longer than we have been, they need to put a portable both ends. cubans, they are not illegals -- i've been a floridian for over six years. the cuban exodus and all of that. it is ridiculous. they get more rights than people more native to the land. i think they ought to forget the will completely. give them a piece of paper and help them find someplace to go. a lot of them have relatives here they could go to and work through the system that way. those are my thoughts.

host: let us go to kentucky, republican. what are your thoughts? caller: on the border, president biden is the one that started all of this, opening the border up for all of these illegals to come into the country. it is not secure. they are processing illegals coming into the country. they need to change asylum laws and stop the flow, put an amendment called stop the flow but anyone who crosses borders illegally, man, woman, child, family, regardless of country, is automatically sent back to home of origin. no exceptions. if you want to come in, you have to apply from your home origin or at the port of entry. under title eight, if you been offered asylum in another country, once you come out of

your country into another country, here and offered asylum in the united states. none of these people walking across the border should be allowed asylum in the united states. you have to stop the flow of illegals coming to this country before you can ever do comprehensive immigration reform. president trump offered almost 4 million people a chance for citizenship and asylum to secure borders. they had almost approved, then chuck schumer turned around and backed out on it. 1980 six, ronald reagan made a deal with democrats. secure the border, i will make 8 million or 9 million people legals and offer citizenship. democrats did not do their part of the bargain. you have to have everything in writing to make it a law or it will never happen. you've got to stop the flow of traffic before you can pass

asylum laws. host: the next caller is from a border state, texas. what are your thoughts? caller: good morning. i want to put aside the misnomer that illegal immigrants are causing a lot of crime. i live in dallas, violent crime is down 7%. you do not hear about mass shootings and the hispanic neighborhoods. -- in the hispanic neighborhoods. i want to put that misnomer aside. i think president biden is getting too much of the blame. title 42 is the reason we have this surge of migrants crossing the border. you cannot expect people to wait in northern mexico forever to cross. once they heard it was going to be lifted, of course people started crossing. the reason they are having to

crosses because the immigration system is broken. -- cross is because the immigration system is broken. i looked at the website for customs and immigration services, it can take up to two years just to get a visa for familial or other reasons. that takes too long. the last thing i want to say, when it comes to immigration, my view is what it says on the statue of liberty. give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. that is why they are coming. thank you. host: we had a previous caller who mentioned immigration reform under president ronald reagan, i want to read a little bit from an article in npr, this is an article written in two thousand 10 when immigration reform was being debated under the obama administration.

the article says as a nation's attention turns back to the fracture debate over immigration, it might be helpful to remember in 1986, ronald reagan signed a sweeping immigration reform bill into law. it was sold as a crackdown. there would be tighter security at the mexican border and employers would pay strict penalties for hiring undocumented workers. the bill made any immigrant who entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty, word not usually associated with the father of modern conservatism. in his new push for overhaul, president obama called for republican support for a bill to address the growing population of illegal immigrants in the country. this time, republicans know better than to tread near the politically toxic a-word. there was an immigration reform bill under president reagan in 1986.

let us go back to the border, arizona, independent. what are your thoughts? caller: thanks for taking my call. i've never called in before. host: welcome. caller: thank you. i agree with a few of the callers, some are really missing the mark. i am for immigration, but legal immigration. this administration is not even adhering to a vehicle immigration laws currently. they are trying to blame the last administration. the last administration had it pretty much under control. not all the way. they still had 48,000 come through, but that was in one year. this now, it is an open border.

the biggest donor is the leader of the open border society. to me, we need to close the border, expel the ones that have come through, and secure it, then start letting people come in the proper way, the wavy asylum laws we have in effect now -- then, let them make the adjustments through congress. host: appreciate that call. let us hear from tom calling as a democrat in maryland. you are on. caller: good morning. i just want to make a couple of points. i work for a living, i do not get to listen to c-span or any other news every day. it seems like i never hear stories about the border on c-span. every other monday, i hear

something about insurrectionists in january 6. -- and january 6. i hear about trump, his impeachment. i hear about brett kavanaugh. i never hear stories about the border on c-span. i think it is similar to cnn and npr, you guys just do a blanket censorship of the news. host: this is a good time to remind viewers and listeners you can always visit c-span.org, our website, our app c-span now. this is not the first and we have talked about immigration, archives are available online for you to review any previous discussions on the issue. mike in north carolina, turned on your tv. you are on.

what do you want to share with us today? mike? i think we lost mike, jimmy in the brassica, calling as an independent. jimmy? caller: good morning. i would like to make a few points come also. we have got 50 million, 30 million, 11 million people in the country illegally. you have to have a secure border to begin with, they want to be deported. they will get fake identification -- they used to call us stupid gringos. if you want to come in, come in. become in legally. we have 40 million people, they do not want them in martha's vineyard. we saw that. they want them to go to the poor neighborhoods where kids already suffering in schools.

what happened to black lives matter? nine have 5 million people with kids coming to the poor neighborhoods, the teachers loved to spend time teaching kids that have no english whatsoever while the other poor kids are suffering. here's what you do. it is simple. if you are in the country illegally, sign up at 7-eleven or pickup at costco, fill out the form. you have one year. if you have not filled it out, you will leave. by then, the border will be secure in they cannot come back under another name. get registered. once you are registered, you've a 10 year limit. if you break the law within five years, whatever, a serious law, you go back. you get behind the people trying to come in legally. host: thank you for that call. let us go to michigan, donald is

calling as a democrat. what are your thoughts? caller: good morning, this is the first time i have talked to you. you are a great host. it is a pleasure to talk to you. i think the republicans on immigration cry and talk about immigration, they give nothing to fix the problem. when they had to gang of eight, who blocked the bill? republicans in the senate, when they put on the floor. you can thank reagan for opening the doors to immigration, cheap labor and destroying unions. these republicans cry about all of these problems that their party created in the 80's and 90's. who opened the door to all the

cheap labor? nixon, reagan and bush. so. host: appreciate that. the next caller is in nebraska on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. listen, i really do think it is too late. he has allowed 5 million people into this country and we have absolutely no idea what these people can do. the problems they're going to cause for years to come. the drugs that are coming across the border, they could kill everybody in the united states three times over. the lady was correct about the press. the only people i ever see put

anything, i mean anything about the border, they stationed a guy every single day for the last two years. nothing from any of the rest of them. i do not know -- host: i think we lost that color. as a reminder, -- caller. as a reminder, we want to hear your thoughts about what washington should be doing on immigration, but the influx of immigrants at the southern border. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. if you live in a border state, call us at (202) 748-8003. let us hear from sylvia in north

carolina as an independent. you are on. caller: thank. it -- thank you. it makes me nauseous to listen to this man on tv lie. he lies about everything. he campaigned on opening everybody -- inviting anybody in. they had t-shirts. yes, our immigration has been broken and it has been going on for years. it has never been as bad as under this president. he has encouraged it and is making the cartels rich by everything they are doing to

these people. when you talk about the other countries, yes. those countries are corrupt. our country has been funding a lot of these people, countries, fix their problems and the corruption goes on and people keep coming. this administration is so corrupt in everything they do, not only immigration. host: let us go now to the democratic line. susan in iowa, go ahead. caller: hi. i keep hearing things -- if you google information to see where the fentanyl is smuggled, how is it smuggled, most of the information you find, reputable

information from foreign patrol, it is coming from citizens. united states citizens are bringing it in. not the migrants trying to cross over to a better life. i wish people would google. look for myths about immigrants. it goes on and on. they are not going to try to attract attention, they are looking for a better life. they are sneaking in through cars, they are going to have to smuggle, they want u.s. citizens that do not draw attention. i wish people would do the research. as far as being an open border, it is 24/7 we are hearing it. whether it is tv, radio, republicans are pushing that. it is like they've got a megaphone. these people are coming for a

better life, that is all they are hearing. if i was them, i would want to go to a better life, too. they are saying it is open. host: we appreciate your call. susan mentioned the flow of fentanyl. this is a report the dea, drug enforcement agency -- it is a 2019 report. the flow fennel into the u.s. is more compared to the start of the fentanyl crisis in 2014 with new countries emerging as a significant trafficking exacerbating the already multifaceted fentanyl crisis by introducing additional countries into the global supply chain of fentanyl, fenton overlaid substances and fentanyl precursors. -- fentanyl related substances

and fentanyl precursors. all mexico and china are the primary source countries for fentanyl and related substances, traffic directly into the united states, india is emerging as a source for finished fentanyl powder and precursor chemicals. i want to show you a map that shows the flow fennel to the u.s. and mexico. found that interesting. you can keep that in mind as we take more of your calls. let us hear from the republican line from tennessee. what thoughts do you want to share? caller: hello. when i was young, i was raised by -- she had to be here for six

years. [indiscernible] i am not against him, that is what he wants. i cannot get mine registered -- i am not mad at him, i could care less. he just sent 10,000 of them people to denver, colorado. host: the next caller is in

arizona done at the border, what are you seeing? caller: my question -- first of all, i'd like to eliminate the extremes on both sides. we do not have zero immigration or no immigration, nor do we have wide open doors or totally open crossings. those are both extremes. my question is, i do not know exactly who sets the cap and how the caps are determined. they lack primarily spanish and communication skills, they have

no knowledge of the rules. also, a question i have his own drones. -- is on drones. how many drones are being used for water crossings, which is primarily florida and california, and how many are actually being used for illegal crossings not to the borders, but through off land areas? those are my questions. host: ok. the next caller is mary in maryland, on the democratic line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i always feel like when you do the border questions, i feel like i am listening to a bunch

of racist trolls when they call up. this planet does not belong to the rich or the racist. we are all god's children. we are all deserving of a fair, safe, law-abiding life. people are coming across the border because there countries have broken down into nothing. you either do or die. i would like to ask everyone who called screaming the border is open or they are bringing fentanyl over, excuse me. that comes over on an airplane. one more question for some of the troll callers. what would it be if it were white people coming over the border? what would your answers be then? money, money, money is going to ukraine, but there is nothing going to all the countries with brown people. get rid of them, do not let them come. let us send all the business to ukraine. this needs to stop.

there are plenty of good ideas, we could have a budget of the program for immigration. a fair, humane -- that is what i would like to see. it is not hard to do. we are human beings with brains that god gave us, he wants us to use it for good. i wish people that would call up with this misinformation, be smart like your phone. that is all i have to say, have a good day. host: let us go now to the next caller in ohio on the independent line. what are your thoughts? caller: i was watching a speech last night on president biden on immigration reform. he had a great plan going on, he actually specifically laid out

the plan, piece by piece. it was a great plan. guess who stopped it? good old republicans. why? because they use as a political prop. that is all they have. then, you have all the qanon callers calling in with crazy information saying biden this, biden that. there will never be reform because they want to keep it going. there will never be immigration reform ever, because republicans do not want to. that is what they live off of. all of the lies and cheats -- biden did a lot of good work in his last two years, people do not see it. new roads, all of the social programs to keep americans going. we have a 3.2 percent

unemployment rate, but nobody sees that. all they see is the garbage they spread out in the q-anon information to try to give us. all the open borders and stuff, he wanted to hire over 1000 more border patrol cops to stop -- to patrol the borders. did they say anything? next time, before you open your mouth, trying to get the truth instead of q-anon garbage you're spreading. host: on the line from virginia is gary on the republican line. go ahead. caller: i am an old-time republican. what we have here is a foreign policy problem. reagan instituted the mexico

city policy, that is where we cannot use any of foreign aid for responsible birth control policy. not to change the subject too much, but i went into the back of a restaurant, everybody is watching george bush in 2005 on a friday, watching a black-and-white about his program. i asked after it was over, there was like 20 guys there -- i worked in 10 different restaurants as a handyman. he said, why do i want to know? i said it is your life, not mine. i got papers. he knew i knew about immigration .

next friday, when i came back, the first thing was help with birth control. i said, what about your religion? he said it does not matter, because every one of us got at least six brothers and sisters. out of 20 some americans i know, only one of them has more than four kids. most of them only have two, a lot of them have only got one. when i was in panama as a little kid in fourth grade, i was the only american in my class. this girl said we are going to take over the united states. host: we appreciate your call. we move on to mike in new jersey. mike on the democratic line. what do you think washington needs to do about immigration? caller: thank you for taking my

call. i am a longtime listener. first time caller. quick synopsis of where i'm coming from, i worked for the government back in the 80's for the bbc. i have news reporting within me. when we hear fake news, that is coming out of a regime out of hitler's playbook. it is phony. it hurts me. i think the republicans need to stop in their path and take a look at what happened historically in this country with their party. it is always been a red and blue fight. i'm a man of 67 years old. we are not united. i wish we were.

we reunite with something hits the fan like 9/11 and we step back and go, somebody is messing with the united states. in the interim we have the floor not being taken care of by both parties. i'm a long democrat. i watch how we try to help and republican say we hold the senate. we are not passing your bill. it has been a game like this ever since 1989 when i stepped out of it. going back to reagan, he raise your taxes 11 times. host: i am going to have to cut you off here. we appreciate you being a first time caller and we hope you call back. we take a quick break. coming up two political writers join us to talk about the battle

for house speaker and the political stories they are watching. up first, michael tomasky editor of the new republic and later national review senior writer and podcast host charles c.w. cooke. will be right back. ♪ >> pre-order your copy of the congressional directory of 118th congress. it is your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every house and senate member. important information for congressional committee, the president's cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. scan the code at the right to pre-order your copy today. it is $29.95 plus shipping and handling. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations at c-spanshop.org.

>> middle and high school students, it is time to get out your phones and start recording for your chance to win $100,000 in total cash prizes for the grand prize of $5,000 by entering c-span's “student cam video documentary contest.” for this year's competition, we are asking students to picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress and tell us what your top priority would be and why. create a 5 minute to 6 minute video showing the importance of your issue from opposing and supporting points of view. be bold with your documentary. don't be afraid to take risks. there is still time to get started. the deadline for entries is january 20, 2023. for competition rules and tips on how to t started, visit our website at studentcam.org. >> be up-to-date in the latest in publishing with booktv's podcast “about books” with current nonfiction book releases, plus, bestseller

lists, as well as, industry news, trends through insider interviews. you can find “about books” on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: we are now here with michael tomasky. he's is editor of the new republic discussing the battle of house speaker, the source you're watching. good morning and welcome. guest: thank you for having me. host: let's start out with the speaker vote. what did you make -- were you watching friday night into saturday morning? what do you make about how it ended? guest: i was surprised that so

many votes changed on friday. from anti-mccarthy to either neutral or probe mccarthy but that was the sign of subsequent reporting of the capitulations that he made to the hard right me up -- members of the freedom caucus. he made the do -- deals he had to make to get the job and the others not to oppose him. he is the speaker. his name will be on the wall forever as long as the u.s. was -- last. but it is going to have a dramatic effect of a government the next two years. host: why does this say about the republican party that he had opposition that it took four days, 15 votes for him to become speaker? roughly 20 hard to holdouts.

what does it say to you where the republican party right now? guest: there are an extreme party. there are responsible conservative republicans. i am a livable -- liberal. i believe america needs two parties one with liberal and other conservative. these guys not conservative. they are extremist. they want to tear down. they run the party now. it is clear. kevin mccarthy was not making promises to the moderates or mainstream conservatives. he was mcauliffe's promises to the extreme radicals. -- making all of his promises to the extreme radicals. whether donald trump reappears, it is where the republican party has gone.

we welcome you to call in with any thoughts you have about the house speaker's race or politics or questions you have. the numbers are democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can start calling in now because we want to get to some of the calls shortly. i want to ask you what do you make of donald trump's influence in the republican party? initially it seemed he did not have much of a factor in the speaker's race, but then we saw he was calling members on friday. marjorie taylor greene -- was working the go-between. what do you characterize as the trump influence on the party today? guest: it is still there.

earlier in the week look like trump's influence was waning. he had endorsed mccarthy and he released a statement encouraging people to vote mccarthy and it did not have any influence on the first couple of days. then as reported, marjorie taylor greene got him on the phone and she put the phone to matt gaetz and maybe others and has playbook reported yesterday morning, he ripped them a new something, but i think callers know the words i'm using. he read them and he got them to switch. in some cases to budding president or former book -- voting present or for mccarthy.

host: you wrote a book a few months ago they came out in september titled, the middle out, the rise of progressive economics and returned to shared prosperity but you also write regularly in the new republic. i want to bring up an excerpt of what you wrote recently, ss, it does not matter who wins the speakership. the 118 congress will be fundamentally ruled by the far right radicals in the republican caucus on virtually every matter from how to address inflation, using their pulpits to terrify white americans and the brown people at the border. it seems likely to me.

that is from a recent essay you wrote in the new republic. it seems like a pessimistic view on the republican party. it seems you do not think the republican party has the will to do much governing data can you elaborate -- much governing? can you elaborate? guest: they did not have much interest in governing. on a few isolated questions like the border, there are certain things they want to do, but they do not care that much about running the government and be responsible stewards in federal government. they hate federal government. they want to shrink it. they have said that on the floor during the last few days when they rally against the spending bill that was just past.

they have announced their priorities. i'm not exaggerating. they have advertised it enough. right after it was apparent they won the majority last november. the first press conference they held was jim jordan and they essentially said their priorities is investigate hunter biden. that is what they want to do. they're not responsible governing party. you mention my book, thank you for mentioning it. it is a look at the political economy of the united states. historical look and a present day look at how the biden administration and a lot of people in the democratic party

and liberal activists are close are trying to change the economic paradigm of the country from the free-market principles that took hold in the 1970's being regulated free-market to something that involves a more activist government, like we had from the 1930's to the 1970's under a model of more economics. i support this. millions of americans support this. the biden administration supports this. the inflation reduction act as a part of this. to anybody watching who is interested in the inside story of how speaking in the democratic party came around to this view in recent years, my book tells the story. host: this is michael tomasky, editor of the new republic.

you can call in now to ask him questions or share your thoughts about politics today. we are going to the phone lines now. calling from jacksonville, florida mary on the democratic line -- gary on the democratic line. caller: you are spot on. the extremists prove they were election deniers. they voted to deny the election. they want to crash and burn. they do not want to do anything constructive. you talk about immigration reform, the chamber administration -- chubb administration -- they did not do any immigration reform. guest: i think the caller makes an important point. i will at this point going back to the pre-trump days, in the

wake of the 2012 election people may remember the republican party did soul-searching and thought they needed to do something to reach out to nonwhite voters and there was a push to support bipartisan immigration reform in the past in the senate with 13 republican votes between the summer 2013. there are headed to the house and it could have passed the house. john boehner was speaker and he could've called for floor vote and what if past with every democratic and i remember being told, 40-50 republicans, but that violates a role republicans impose called be has to rule with their past nothing that is not have the support of the majority of the majority. there were not pass anything that democrats support as a

minority of republican support. he would not pass it because he knew it will cost him his job. the far right will vote him out. the immigration reform bill that have 13 republican votes in senate and 40-50 in the house was left dormant and not acted on because of the influence of the far right. it is more powerful now than it was 10 years ago. host: donna in florida on the republican line. what is your question or comment daca -- caller: as a republican, conservative republican i'm tired of being called insurrectionists and radicals. this country is in dire straits. we are in debt. we have just hired 87,000 new

irs agents to poke into every aspect of our lives. this is a mess as he is worried about hunter biden -- don't mess as he is worried about hunter biden investigation but he will be thrilled if they were investigating donald trump, jr.. it is proven and there are facts, hunter biden has colluded and received money from china. his family is a corrupt family. the left does not want to look at it. they do not want to look at it. biden has never been to the border, he is finally going. we are letting in unmitigated immigrants to the country. it is only going to hurt the current black and brown communities of our country, who i want to help. that is what i want to do. i hope you have someone on -- this gentleman is a super

liberal. host: we will have a conservative guess on later in the show. go ahead and respond. guest: i have said i am liberal. if i broke the law, let the law have added. i do not care about hunter biden one way or the other. whether it is a good use of people's money to spend millions of dollars investigating when it is a political thing, that is a different question. if you broke the law, let prosecutors prosecute and let a jury convicted. i do not care about investigating donald trump, jr.. donald trump himself is being investigated plenty and he's probably going to be indicted one way or another at some point. let the process play out

independent of politics. host: drew in virginia on the independent line. caller: first time caller. i'm a little nervous. i wanted to say it seems to me mccarthy did not have to kowtow to the extreme right. it seems to me it was fairly easy and would have involved diplomacy. as for mard -- if moderate republicans have been talking to democrats during the process, then the rest the republicans would've had to come around and vote with the majority of the republicans. the republicans should have been

shown talking to democrats which would have made republicans in general nervous. i'm nervous but if you follow me, this did not have to have to happen. what are your thoughts about drew's comments? guest: we value. -- follow you and it is a point a lot of people made. somehow, some combination of republicans and democrats could come together and get behind a different candidate as speaker like liz cheney or somebody like that. there were a lot of hopes along those lines but unfortunately,

that is not a realistic think. the moderates and -- in the republican party not have enough juice to do that. the equally system, remember all of these folks, they have built their own media infrastructure around fox news and white american news networks. so many other outlets, talk radio, christian radio. they do not care what i think. they do not care with the new york times or washington post says. they care with those alex a. -- outlets say and those outlets say do not make a deal, stand firm. that is the system they operate in. there is no chance of that kind of bipartisan compromise happening on the speakership. host: what do you think govern

he looks like in washington over the next two years with the republican-led house with far right members more empowered, but democrats and -- in control of the senate and white house? guest: no big legislation. the biden administration will have to trade another things and concentration on the implementation of many things they did pass in the first two years. it is an impressive list. six pieces of major legislation. they have simply meant that. the instructor bill and make sure -- infrastructure bill and make sure the projects are being built all over the country so people see the government can do something and is making a positive, tangible change in their lives by fixing this bridge or building a highway or

improving the airport or whatever it is. that's the first thing the administration needs to do. you can do a lot of stuff the justice department and trade commission in terms of antitrust and antimonopoly action. that administration is strong on those things. that is how it is going to govern. they will have to pass budgets. they will have to address the debt ceiling which is terrifying to many people. we will have to wait and see how it plays out, but dividing biden administration is going to have to not, congress for much of anything. host: up next, we have rick from maryland on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. one thing we do know is the guy who is getting to be the speaker

of the house is a coward. he is not a leader. he is a follower. he goes whichever way the wind blows. he's a tough guy one minute and then the next thing you know he is crying like a girl running down to florida to brown those --brown nose donald trump. donald trump who accumulated $8 trillion in debt in four years. the worst president in history of the united states. we do not care. democrats we keep fighting. we know they are not right. we know that. we keep fighting and making life hard for them. thank you. host: do you think kevin mccarthy is going to be a week speaker? guest: yes.

he has stripped off his of his power in the compromises he has made. he is not going to be calling shots the way nancy pelosi did are going back in history. he's going to have a lot of shots called for him according to the compromises he has made. i want to pick up on one thing the caller said, donald trump and at -- debt. this is something democrats do not make enough noise about. if you look at the last three democratic presidents versus the last three republican presidents, and you compare job creation, median household income, performance of the stock market, and deficit reduction, it is not even close. democratic presidencies have

outperformed the republican presidencies. i have these numbers in my book. there is one number i remember, donald trump added $3 trillion to the deficit. bill clinton took us from deficit to surplus. barack obama inherited a wrecked economy and the deficit went up, but he brought it back down. in economic terms, there is no comparison. democratic presidents have outperformed republican presidents. host: john in new york on the republican line. what are your thoughts? caller: thank you for taking my call. i was listening to the caller and i appreciate the fact he

disclose he was a liberal and he rattled off a litany of republican shortcomings, but i would like to mention my father was an immigrant. he came over at the age of seven from italy. he came over at a time there was a great deal of xenophobia and he had the red square, cultural laws limiting immigration -- quota laws limiting immigration. you had a lot of terrible things going out for immigration. he had the rise of the kkk. he was always grateful for this country. a group with appreciation of traditional american values -- i grew up with an appreciation of

traditional american values. be subject to bigotry, he fought to overcome a lot of things. it bothers me your guess is such a liberal that he misses certain things. the democratic party of today, taken over by the radical left, once -- wants to change the structure of the country. they want to pack the court. they want to create a state of washington, d.c. and give its extra senators -- it to extra senators and changed the electoral college. these systems have worked for over 200 years. you got a guy like chuck schumer threading supreme court justices.

merrick garland that allows demonstrations in front of cavanaugh's house. he is worried about first amendment rights. they can demonstrate but they do not have to intimidate a supreme court justice or any other federal judge. it is troublesome to see these liberal elitist and demonize guys like trump. host: i want to let our guest respond to those issues you raise. guest: i want to tell the caller , despite our political differences, we have something in common, my mom immigrated from italy she was six. my mom experience that kind of bigotry when she was young and she worked for the war effort

domestically during the war and became a schoolteacher. she loves this country as much as the callers father even though they have different politics. i will address one of his points, changing the constitution. there are efforts on both sides. liberals are unhappy with the constitution. like supreme court, two senators per state in a country where california has seven times the population of wyoming and electoral college. conservatives are not happy with certain aspects too. it involves the constitutional to change the constitution they do not like. it is not as if conservatives are saying it cannot be changed,

they want to change it in, and we should all be looking at reforming the constitution because the framers were brilliant people and they did a great think in most respects. slavery is a pretty big gastric -- asterik. the document they came up with was profound for his time but they were working under intense political pressure and did it in 10 weeks over one summer in philadelphia. it is not perfect. it is nothing wrong with us re-examining the constitution. host: from tom in missouri on the independent line. caller: i was wondering, january 6 and all that was going on,

there were two guys who carry the vote box, whatever happened to that? could they be switched? the only one i saw who died was one of the cops inside shot a woman outside of the door. that bothers me. that fellow there seems like a communist or socialist, or maybe worse, wanting to change things. in missouri we believe in the old ways and try to think down the middle of the road. if you go down, we might -- broke down, we might stop and help you. host: i want to ask you this is going back to your book, you have written democrats response ability the continue the economic path they are on the. you call it bidens economics,

how does president biden democrats in congress, how can they push forward with this economic agenda given the dysfunction in partisanship in congress? guest: as i said a moment ago, they can do a lot of this stuff demonstratably without worrying about legislation. take antitrust and movie against monopoly power. monopoly power is something americans really do not understand. it is hidden but does increase the prices of things. it does limit consumer choice in some cases. people will be stunned to know the extent to which a monopoly are involved in their lives. you think you have choices and then you investigate and you find all these different stories

are owned by the same conglomerate. that is not good for small businesses. franklin roosevelt had an economic bill of rights he ran all in 1944. freedom for the small businessman. there was a person today. -- we was a person today. freedom for the small person today. biden is a terrific person to run the antitrust division. lina came out last week with the new regulation that would eliminate noncompete agreements that employees have to sign when they go to work for a company as an unfair business practice.

there are many other things. i have friends who work in this area who have dedicated their careers to fight monopoly power. they are impressed with what the biden administration trying to do there. i hope they make these efforts more public the next two years. host: we have lisa in maryland on the democratic line. caller: good morning. it is interesting to me and as i hear the different callers speak , as i'm waiting on hold, a change what i am thinking about. i want to ask the guest, what role does real systemic racism play in everything we are talking about from immigration,

which is not an issue for me i live in maryland. it is not really an issue at the top of my list but i do know it impacts me as a black woman. just generally i hear these older folks calling in from especially southern states and other places, the guy from missouri, and it is so hurtful to me that people talk about the immigrant parents and family members. i do not have that option. i am an american, period. i do not know anywhere else. we talk about dreamers, -- i did not get a chance to dream. when i woke up i was in this country generations and generations ago. it ticks me off when i hear old white people and young sound as if they have a corner on the

market of americanism. there are no more american than i am. host: you ask a good question let's let michael respond. guest: she makes a profound point. lisa does not have immigration story that i have and the previous caller. that is the tragedy. that is the central profound tragedy of his country. slavery and its aftereffects. so my people want to think it is over -- some white people want to think it is over. they are deluding themselves. the effects stay with us and it all still exists. one area i talk about in my book because it is strictly economic is the question of building wealth.

there have been many opportunities for white families to build wealth over generations that many black families have not had. simply by being able to buy a home. black people were not allowed to buy houses in most servers -- surburbs. black people were not allowed to buy houses. imagine the course of 3-4 generations, the difference in wealth that makes because a home is everyone's main source of wealth. that is just one example of many that a lot of african-americans economists are looking at and studying to get people to pay attention to. the legacies of racial

discrimination in this country are profound. host: our next caller is gina in mississippi on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have to say something about the last caller. i will like to know how much longer we are going to be -- that he was upset that she woke up in america and she was american. come on, people. blacks are presently in control of the country now. we have had a black president. it is unbelievable. this man wants to make money off of a another book.

i have been lying to say this very well -- wanting to say this to the democratics, those that i've called here and propagandized by the lies the reason we have discourse in this country today is six years ago when trump came the escalator, the hate, realize started -- the lies started. host: do you want to respond? guest: not particularly. host: you will me to move on? guest: let's move on. host: outward in new jersey on the independent line. caller: good morning and happy new year. you showed a scene where hakeem

jeffries was passing the gavel to mr. mccarthy and when hakeem jeffries was walking down he started shaking his colleagues hand and there was black members in the house and i thought to myself, wow, that scene right there shook me to my core. it brought me back to this movie i just saw with will smith called emancipation. it takes place in 1863 during the height of the civil war. i am so shaken by it. i feel like present day we are still at war. the democratic party which are mostly caucus with is not progressive enough. do you have thoughts on hakeem jeffries and the future of the democratic party, even though

they are the minority right now? and thank you. guest: i interviewed hakeem jeffries carmichael's -- i cohost a podcast with my friend felicia long. we interviewed hakeem jeffries a few weeks ago and we have an interesting conversation with him. not that much is known about him yet. he is cautious publicly. he was unguarded in our interview. he did give a speech friday as is customary at 12:30 a.m., who knows how many people solid. -- saw it but it was a good speech. it announced democratic values

about focusing on the working, middle-class and economics. we will see what kind of leader he turns out to be. the democratic party is much more ideologically diverse than their republican party. yet people on the left like aoc and a few others and then people who are very moderate and then you have people who are pretty conservative. the democratic party spans a broad ideological spectrum. we will see how hakeem jeffries does in keeping them together with air not focus on trying to pass legislation -- they are not focused on trying to pass legislation. they were trying to pass things

and were willing to vote in the same direction. that is gone now. it may be a challenge for him to keep them on the same page. i'm impressed by way -- what i have seen so far. host: jeff in south carolina on the democratic line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i appreciate c-span and the diversity of opinions you shall. this time of year, january 6, if it is obvious that the republicans want to change the narrative. they want to distract because two years ago we had trump flag storming the capital and it seems obvious to me. they're not going to let this happen until january 6 so they can change the narrative and appear to show republicans are

doing something. sounds like political theater. guest: sure, i agree. i urge the caller and others of similar mind to watch what this congress does, republican house does, with respect to investigating the investigation of january 6. there has been some reporting but nobody has been able to -- they're going to have a subcommittee on the judiciary committee that is going to be chaired by jim jordan that is going to look into quotes for the weaponization of the federal government. that means they're going to investigate the investigation of january 6 itself. there probably going to investigate whether hillary

clinton in 2016 had ties to ukraine or something like that. they're going to investigate joe biden and the ways he quote unquote still, which of course he did not, between 20 election and all those matters. they're going to turn reality on his head and waste millions of dollars coming up with funny nonsense to influence the outcome he of the 2024 election. host: we appreciate you spending time with us this morning. we have been talking with michael tomasky, editor of the new republic. you could check out his book the rise of aggressive economics and a return to shared prosperity. thanks again. we're going to take a quick break. later in the show at nine 15 a.m., we are joined by national review senior writer and podcast

host, charles c.w. cooke cook. he gives the conservative perspective of the battle of house speaker and politics. but first, open forum. you can call in now. we will hear from you on any political story news of the day like to discuss. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. ♪

>> tonight on q&a in his book, university of california law professor talks about 19th century lawyers and his impact shaping america's national identity prior to the civil war. his speech has inspired many americans including abraham lincoln to see the country as one nation found together by the u.s. constitution. >> he has most famously connected with one of his great speeches in which he said, liberty and union now and forever, one and inseparable. he did not think the union was free today. he knew that a third of our population was enslaved and his view was the union was the vehicle for ending slavery. >> tonight at the eastern on

c-span q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcast on our free c-span now up -- app. >> steve is national political correspondent for nbc news. you see him often around campaigns and election night in front of what the network calls the big board. he recently finished a seven part podcast series called the revolution. it is the story of how republicans took over the u.s. house of representatives for the first time in years. it happened in 1994 and was organized and led by newt gingrich. >> book notes plus is available on the c-span now app or whatever you get your podcasts.

♪ >> middle and high school students, it is time to get out your phones and start recording for your chance to win $100,000 in total cash prizes for the grand prize of $5,000 by entering c-span's “student cam video documentary contest.” for this year's competition, we are asking students to picture yourself as a newly elected member of congress and tell us what your top priority would be and why. create a 5 minute to 6 minute video showing the importance of your issue from opposing and supporting points of view. be bold with your documentary. don't be afraid to take risks. there is still time to get started. the deadline for entries is january 20, 2023. for competition rules antips on how to get started, visit our website at studentcaorg. >> washington journal continues. host: it is time for open forum.

it is your choice -- chance to weigh in on any political topic on your mind. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. we are ready to get to your cause. bread in louisiana on the republican line. caller: i would like to mention about the reparations and i'm going to make a comment, when all this started down here, there was one guy who came to louisiana, started to build a mansion, he was 21 years old. he came with 750 slaves. you look get one person, a boy, 750, how many do you think had

hundred thousands to support that? when you think about it, if you do not believe in reparations, something is not right. they built the foundation of the country. host: our next caller is cecil in virginia on the democratic line. caller: i want to clarify two points on immigration. we know the u.s. government has opened up with a train -- where they trained many generals and went back to latin america and many other u.s. policies like the doctrines that destabilize the latin american countries which cause so much distress in the lives they made a beeline to

get into the u.s.. we forced a lot of those problems. we know the u.s., seeking employers, join immigrants. the last point, in order to know america, you have to know the history. many of us in political circles are trying to blackout developing education, but u.s. is an offspring of england, and england is an offspring of the roman empire. we know from history,, all kinds

of martyrs, reflected the roman empire. you have to know the history to know where you are in america. host: our next caller is calling from pennsylvania, john. caller: good morning. i think often once in a while, donald trump, and how he was incredibly trashed even though the majority of the people liked his fresh approach to politics. he named with swamp in washington dc -- it the swamp in washington dc and he was the in the -- in the me in washington

dc -- he did so many good things. the economy was booming. he did great things for the black community. he gave them a heads up their be held back for many years. he did a lot of good things. he was a good person. because he called them what they are, the swamp, he wanted to clean it up. it is a shame. host: thanks for that call. on the republican line in missouri. caller: hello. i want to make some comments. i think both systems are messed up. this country is a big mess. there is not the age of racism

in america. i was race with segregation of blacks and whites. we have come a long way. the republicans and the democrats, they are so crooked and so corrupt. we need to get them all out of there. we need to start over. this country is a mess because of the crap they want to shut down people's throats. nobody up there is accountable for what they do. the corruption. they all need to go. we need to start over. host: let's go to our caller in pennsylvania on the democratic line. what are your thoughts this morning?

caller: two things. people forget the prices and things are up because of what happened with covid. china shut down multiple times and very involved with them financially. it is not the democrats made the prices go up. the 118th congress, the house, want to do all of these investigations. you lost. trump lost the election fairly. there is nothing wrong. these investigations, democrats should do unto the republicans they done to the republicans when they had the committee. people did not show up to the subpoenas. they sat there and took the fifth and would not answer questions. they should do the same things, the democrats.

host: on the independent line from tennessee, bubba. caller: good morning. i was watching all the other day when democrats did a moment of silence for january 6. there are talking about policeman the guy killed. but i think i heard was a white woman, a small white woman, the guy killed by one of the black officers, which he should be charged with murder. i do not know all the cops had gotten killed like that. that is the first time i heard that. i noticed you lose a lot of republicans on the phone lines when they call in, but i think you're cutting them off. with you see -- we can see your arm go on the button and cut

them off. yet the democrats call in and call republicans all kind of names and let them finish but the republicans, you cut them off. you have a good morning. talk to you next month sometime. host: let's go to the republican line, richard in florida. caller: good morning. as one of the more to your that sit in your seat, i would advise you when you use extreme link of a certain party, you do not do it just to the republicans. you pull most of americans at extreme beliefs of the republican party would vote for term limits, balanced budget amendment.

you should be moreyou should be. there are extreme people on the democratic side as well. i do not think the people you are referring to, i do think they represent most of americans. i would like you to respond to that. host: let's go to another caller, diane in ohio. on the democratic line. caller: good morning. the republicans talking do not know they are talking about. i watched this show continuously since i have been retired and i know you guys are fair when it comes to the phones. people keep talking about the fentanyl, it is coming through the border. it is white supremacists groups

passing the stuff around. if you do not believe me, listen to the fbi. when it comes to white supremacists, this is ohio and is the state of the white supremacists. in utah, the places busted because of fentanyl. what white group was that? the ted -- it had to have been white supremacists. when he was arrested, they killed three rights -- white supremacists. you better think about what you are saying, democrats and republicans. we are not the state of anything but white supremacy groups. host: let us move on to paul in

texas on the independent line. go ahead. caller: i am an independent veteran from a long time back, vietnam era. most of my friends and family use derogatory terms to describe anybody who is nonwhite. they tell me, we never had any racism until obama. yet, they cannot give me specific incidents. they say trump was the best president ever, but they are all racist. i hate to say it, they are my own family. they are not very well educated.

that is all i've got to say. host: let us go to north carolina on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to let you know, being one of the newer hosts, you are doing a fantastic job. open to the party come i've not had a chance to call in a while. -- welcome to the party, i've not had a chance to call in a while. the immigration thing and labor issue, without need by big corporations and the fact they have no accountability, trying to get them to stem the tide. you need this labor and instead of allowing your factory or whatever to be rated a, 300

people arrested, they are hiring the next day. there has to be accountability by the corporations hiring these folks. maybe like the gentleman earlier said the appropriate thing is bringing housing down, making sure they are set for success. not the situations you see there are now. labor people need to come help out, but this cannot be a. happy new year -- it. happy new year. host: appreciate the call. john on the democratic line from pennsylvania. caller: good morning. the caller said trump was popular, he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes to hillary clinton. he never was popular. talk about a rigged election, it was the electoral college.

one of the callers said he did a lot of good things. here are things i cannot understand how it benefited the american public, by moving the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. how did that benefit anybody? when he was in office, he promised governor christie and governor cuomo he would help them with the tunnels under the river. both governors came up with that, one democrat and one republican. he came up with the money for their share -- they came up with the money for their share for the tunnels under new york, and when it came time for the federal government to give the money, they didn't. that is how they handle infrastructure. he never did anything. he was a blowhard. she stacked the supreme court

with conservatives, two of them were not approved by the bar association. he got us into debt, the tax cut was a total joke. that is my comment for today. host: that was john, let us go to kim on the independent line from iowa. go ahead. caller: we have 35 states, red states republican governors are running, and crime is higher here than in democratic states. we are acting like this is normal in congress.

we have criminals running congress. that is not normal. that is not normal, electing criminals. matt gaetz, sex trafficking. what is wrong with these people? marjorie taylor greene out there spilling lies, she is part of insurrectionists that planned it. you have most of the insurrection planners running government. is that normal or not? this is crazy. i do not understand it. they are projecting everything with lies. i have the problem with the media, red states -- i live in one, red states have more crime

the democratic states. they always mention chicago. so which one is it? host: we are going to have to move on, but appreciate your comments. let us go to the republican line , susan from massachusetts. go ahead. caller: hi. host: how are you? caller: mi on the phone? -- am i on the phone? host: yes. caller: all these democrats crying investigations, investigations. yeah, because you put my president through hell, but how many are still going after we have the most corrupt joe biden?

he calls his vice president the president again. this guy needs a cognitive test. i want the host to do it. it is unbelievable, he is trying to destroy america and is doing a good job because you have stupid people on the democrat party free this, free that like the illegals. when he told everybody to come over. now he is trying to fix it. the media sucks, they stick up for this guy left and right. they never ask him a tough question. it is unbelievable. we are going to get him impeached and he is going to be convicted. host: up next, russell from south carolina on the independent line. go ahead. caller: yes, good morning.

the lady that just spoke that said democrats get everything free, i want to remind her the homestead exemptions actually give 20% of land in america to people who were not people of color, in order to qualify you have to be white anglo-saxon. indians, asian, african-american could not qualify for the homestead exemption. it was not repealed until president carter. it went into effect in 1863, so most of the wealth in america, land wealth, was given to people from europe and all over the world. except for people that were already here.

but i did not call about that, i called about the lady from mississippi. your prior guest would not answer her questions, i wanted to know -- want her to know the daughters of the confederacy run much of america, of history. because they do not know accomplishments and contributions other people have given to america, that is why they think they are the real americans that they say. that was the whole question. the lady before her was saying she woke up in the country that somehow seems to institutionalize discriminating against her. the lady from mississippi said we had a black president. having a black president is not reparation. they almost talk about as though we had our president.

president obama was everybody's president. he was not just a black president. that is my comment that i have today, thank you. host: our next caller is michael in texas on the independent line. caller: yes, how are you? thanks for the call. i was listening to all these democrats whining about diversity, which is the last thing they want. the black caucus is not just for black people, it's for black people that are liberal in democrat. there are plenty of black conservatives that are not allowed in the black caucus. as far as akeem jeffries, he was the biggest election to meyer we ever had, along with hillary clinton, barack obama. although liberal media denied an

election for four years. now, it totally slipped. they are not investigating anything. i see you going for your button. as far as republicans starting to investigate committee -- committees, i do not think this will go anywhere. we know you all are corrupt, but what are you going to do about it? on both sides of the aisle, there are corrupt politicians that are eating at the grill after this little who were all. democrats and republicans at the same table drinking good wine on the taxpayer dime. that is all of god. host: let us go to louisiana, republican. what are your thoughts? caller: are they going to be doing a whole bunch of

investigations with the new crooked 118th congress? i have news for you. let this month, november issue -- not this month, november issue, it it states a request showing the molar investigation was a hoax. you've got to keep suing and suing to get information from the government, that is what is going to happen with the january 6 thing with democrats. when he went for the senate judiciary committee and was testifying, he was asked about the steel dossier. it was not in his purview to go look at the steel dossier.

in other words -- i will keep it simple. if you are running a mile relay, the baton is handed off three times. whoever runs first, that was not his purview. that is what happened. that is official. host: the final call of this segment is bob in tennessee on the republican line. what do you want to talk about this morning? caller: yes ma'am. there was a caller yesterday that said republicans are people . i beg to differ. -- people--republicans are evil. i beg to differ. i thought you cut me off, i was watching my tv, sorry.

the people that are evil are democrats. they stand for murdering innocent babies, they want to mutilate little boys and turn them into little girls and try to act like that is normal, that is evil. it is who you vote for. you will have that blood on your hands. that is all i've got to say. jesus christ. host: that will be the end of open forum. we are taking a quick break then we are joined by national review senior writer and podcast host charles c.w. cooke to talk about the historic battle for house speaker and other political news he is following. be right back. ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv,

featuring leading offers special authors discuss ring -- discussing the latest nonfiction books. a former d.c. metro police officer shares his near-death experience during the riot at the u.s. capitol on january 6 of 2021. a former u.s. capitol police chief recounts the events leading up to the january 6, 2021 right at the capital in his book. watch book tv every weekend and find a full schedule on your program guide or online anytime. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of proceedings from u.s. congress, white house events, the court, campaigns and

more all at your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span tv networks and radio , plus a variety of podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. download for free. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere, america is watching on c-span. >> washington journal continues.

host: welcome back, we are joined by national review senior writer and podcast host charles c.w. cooke. good morning. charles will be giving us a conservative perspective on the battle for house speaker as well as the political stories he is watching in 2023. i want to start by asking you, what was your take on the speaker raise over four days, 15 rounds of ballots. what do you make of it? guest: i had a couple thoughts. i did not think the house taking a few days to choose a speaker was inappropriate. i did not think it was a crisis, i did not think up put the country in danger or harm to national security or any of the other more hysterical approaches we heard.

this is what the houses for, they are supposed to debate. the constitution allows the house to set its own rules. what this represented was a debate over the rules and how the house will proceed over the next couple of years. structurally speaking, i thought this was fine. i did not think it was an embarrassment or problem. i was pleased to see the house doing something it is not often do, which is debate out in the open. all the merits, what you saw was a mixture of people who had lofty and sincere goals, chip of texas is a good example. he wants reform, a more open amendment process. he does not like the way we passed budgets and wanted to use the leverage she had to change that. then, you saw some people who

just wanted drama and chaos into fundraiser. i would put gaetz into that category. it resolved itself, i think the house will be stronger for it. we often put our congress on autopilot, not just electing speakers but legislatively as well. the last time we had a big congressional debate over foreign policy, when was the last time we had a big debate over defense and general? when was the last time we had a big debate over what we are going to do about social security and medicare? we do not do it, so i was pleased to see the house debating even though i thought some of the debaters were playing games. host: i want to get right back to that, but i want to let viewers and listeners know they can start calling in to ask a question. he is the senior writer at national review and you can share your comments about the

speaker race or political news of the day. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. start calling in now. you mention there were agents of chaos, to use your words, within that group of roughly 20 members who, at times, were standing in the way of kevin mccarthy becoming speaker. do you think mccarthy has a coalition where he will be able to govern, or do you think these agents of chaos will continue to stand in the way of addressing the issues you think congress should be talking about? guest: i think irrespective of the fight, the role of the speaker in corralling the house

was always going to be difficult in this congress. like with the last one, the majority is pretty small. the assumption was that republicans are going to have a majority after the 2022 midterms of about 30, but they do not. they have a majority of 10. irrespective of what happened here, it was always going to be tough. that is another reason i was not especially pent up about it. what we saw over the last week was not some separate drama that came out of the blue. really, where we are in america is a country, which is divided. we are not seeing big sleeping political victories that we saw in the 70's and 80's and with

barack obama in 2008. we are seeing trench warfare. the 2020 election was trench warfare, close all levels. 2022 was as well, perhaps thanks one will be. when you have a divided country, small majorities, parties not entirely internally coherent, you get this sort of thing. i think what we have seen might be a preview of the future, not because this happened, because underlying conditions will created again. host: a lot of people -- there's been a lot of negative comparison, if you will, to hell nancy pelosi governed her thin majority the past two years versus kevin mccarthy's ability let just because his majority is thin, but because some agreements he made in order to win the speakership further

weakened his power as speaker. do you disagree with that? do you think kevin mccarthy is going to be able to corral his coalition the way even under a thin margin nancy pelosi was able to? guest: i think there will be a lot more pressure on the rebels once the house is in session then there was at this juncture. i think people are more willing to allow the holdouts to express themselves. i think people will feel on the republican side of that -- side if that behavior persists, they had the chance for their concessions, to an extent they need to suck it up. one of the big difference in politics at the moment compared to the 70's is the republican party is far more internally fractured and boisterous than

the democratic party. it is not just that nancy pelosi managed to control her caucus, the people who she was controlling wanted to be controlled. every single democrat over and over voted for jeffries, there was an agreement in the party and they executed it. that is far more like the republican party of old, the discipline you see on the democratic side. republicans are more likely to make noise. there are reasons for it. republican party has changed, the degree to which it is frustrated with the status changed. to answer your question, i think going forward it will be easier for mccarthy. it only takes six or seven holdouts and they will be back to square one. host: let us go to the phone lines. democrats, you can call (202) 748-8000.

democrats -- republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. the first caller is steve in florida on the democratic line. what is your question or comment? caller: hello, thank you for letting me make a comment for your guests. i am a progressive person and a lot of the speech that speaker mccarthy made made me cringe. i think there is a baby and the bathwater here. that is the 78,000 irs agents, something democrats and republicans, if they listen to their constituents -- i help people with their taxes. there are so many small businesses and people who want to do the right thing and there is an ambiguity.

only that, the irs is so inaccessible and the only way you can get the right answer and do the right thing with all these ambiguous publications and everything is to take your taxes to cpa or one of the corporation tax mills that charge hundreds and thousands of dollars to do simple taxes. my suggestion is, if they are going to be 78,000 new agents, instead of hiring them to go through your checking account and come after you, why don't they hire them so they can answer the phone and give simple answers to the people who want to do the right thing? host: let's let charles respond. guest: that is a really good point. personally, i would prefer to

simplify the tax code. we use the tax code to get all sorts of things done we cannot get through legislatively or that the constitution does not allow the federal government to do. i would much prefer to see simpler textile with less social engineering -- tax code with less social engineering. i think the irs should be much better at the basics. answering the phone, having a website that works, allowing more sorts of business forms to be filed electronically rather than on paper, start to get control of the backlog rather than this idea we are going to audit people. i know the president says this is only for rich people, that is not how it works in practice. i would like to see some of those people redirected to

improving customer service at the irs. i would rather change the tax code to not hire them at all. host: let us hear from carrie on the republican line from wisconsin. caller: good morning. to steve, my nephew -- the caller, my nephew, his wife and baby just moved from there up to new hampshire. from a beautiful sunny state to the cold weather, for work purposes. anyhow, two questions were charles. it sounds like every two years, the house can change the rules. is there a way the american people, we the citizens, can help make rules that are permanent?

instead of the huge omnibus bills that have so many things that nobody will ever always agree on, why can't they vote on little bills, one issue at a time, which seems to be easier to pass? is there something the american people can do to get that to change, or will they always be able to make their own rules every two years? second question, i do appreciate some of the role changes coming up in the house. one of them is that to raise the debt ceiling, anytime we are going to spend more money, we have to cut money. with so many needs out there, what areas are people talking about that could be cut? guest: i'll take the first one first.

i think if people want permanent change to the way the house of representatives works, they have to pass a constitutional amendment because the constitution allows house to set its own rules, it will always be able to change them absent there being a higher law in place. the constitution does simply in place the basic rules, the rest of it is left up to the house itself. absent the amendment, the way the rules change i assume the caller does not like can be prevented if enough voters care about this. there does seem to be somebody satiric, we are on c-span. people calling in care about politics. the house of representatives is way down the list of priorities for most people.

if we elected more people that made a fuss about it, you will see more progressives the next time democrats have a majority standing up and demanding change, because the house will respond to public pressure. on the second point, i do not know how binding it is, but one of the concessions that was apparently extracted from kevin mccarthy was a cut to defense spending around $75 billion. that is going to be unpopular in some quarters of the republican party. many want to increase it. star republicans who want to reduce it. . -- there are some republicans want to reduce it. in 2011, when it became necessary to do something and the democrats and republicans got together and took a decision

neither party liked all know there's the sequester and it combined cuts to spending democrats liked with this will be republicans like. the problem is, the vast majority of federal spending is not decided each year in congress. it is not the defense budget, either. it is social security and medicare and, to a lesser extent, medicaid. that is going to get worse, because people are living longer , medical care is getting better and more expensive. but that means we are spending more money on these programs and in my view -- this is not popular -- ultimately, those programs are going to have to be reformed so they survive so they are sustainable. there is no appetite at the moment in congress on either

side of the aisle to do that. what we end up with this potential cuts to defense and small amounts of discretionary spending we see every year will ignoring the bigger issue. host: let us hear from susan in michigan on the independent line. what is your question or comment? caller: good morning, i wanted to say i am excited for the hearings that will be starting about the fbi blocking free speech, covid and about hunter and joe when joe was vice president, thank you. host: republicans in the house have promised to launch a series of hearings the caller referred to. what are your thoughts about

that? do you think that is a good plan for the next two years? guest: the house has an oversight function, it should use it. i wish the house considered its oversight function outside of partisan politics. i wish, irrespective of the party label attached to the president any given point, the house of representatives saw itself as it is supposed to as a separate branch of government intended to keep the executive in check. when democrats run the house, they investigate republicans. if there is a republican president, they investigate him. you get it the other way around. what we are going to see his oversight and investigations the republicans want. if in two years time a republican is elected president and keep the house, they will

not look into their president or party at all, which is not how it is supposed to work it is a good thing the house conducts oversight. there are some real questions that need answering. the role of the fbi at twitter is important, but the role of the fbi in general needs looking at. i've written about it before, i had a debate with andy mccarthy on my podcast recently. i think the fbi, from its inception, has been lawless and fit uncomfortably into our constitutional order. this has nothing to do with donald trump. this is a broader distaste for the fbi's history and the way it conducts itself. almost as an unaccountable branch of government and congress, as long as it does not fall into a partisan trap, will

do a public service by investigating it. the same is true of covid. i do not want to see unscientific investigations. what i want to see is a proper evaluation of the role of the cdc and the advice taken up in most parts of this country. i largely got away from it living in florida, i wanted to have some sort of accountability for what happened to children whose learning has been delayed, small businesses, many of which closed. to see whether or not this was a good approach. i do not think it was. we've been lucky, at the pandemic seems to come about every century. the one before covid was spanish flu. perhaps there will be another one in 10 years. if we were to make the same mistakes we made this time around, some of which were

forgivable because it was such a unique event, that would be a disaster. so i would like to see the house investigate that. hunter biden is overplayed, but if hunter biden has broken the law, then he needs to be held to account in the same way anyone else would. host: let us take another call. isaiah in missouri on the democratic line, what is your question or comment? caller: my comment, i would like to say this is the fifth time i've been able to get on. my comment is about what your guest mentioned about social security. they get on and talk about it is in trouble, but they never tell you why it is in trouble. social security was set about of a trust fund, it had nothing to do with no budget item. president ronald reagan was the

first when i went to social security and ever since, they've been using that money for everything. you remember what president eisenhower said? he said aware of the military complex. that's where all of the money is going. it ain't the cost of social security payments. i'm 82 years old and i paid them and you want to take it away? it does not make any sense, i am out. host: i wanted to ask you, we are talking about republicans in the house are going to push to cut government spending, whether it is social security, other entitlements or defense spending. how do you think republican senate leader mitch mcconnell should approach the next two years? he traveled with president biden

, they were talking about being bipartisan. he is also going to be the one leaned upon to work with the house. what would you suggest with him. guest: if i could address that point before we get onto that, i did not know that was an accurate description of why we are in trouble with social security. the main reason is the retirement age was set at 65 when the average american died 65. it is a good thing in the modern era that people of a lot longer, but that retirement age has never been moved. what you have is an awful lot of people on social security and after 1960's medicare, who live far longer than the program imagined they were. the rest of the government has chocked that up. it is not people are taking out of social security and giving to other programs, it is the other way around. social security is not a self

sustaining program. the amount the majority of people pay into social security is not what they get back more, which turned into an intergenerational wealth transfer. we can argue all day how we should fix it, maybe give it more money or raise taxes, raise the retirement age. it is important to understand the core problem which is social security has not been reformed properly since the 30's but people are living longer, which is great. all mitch mcconnell, there is going to be very little substantial change over the next two years because they are too many veto points. the house tomorrow capacitive or it wanted, that is the way it works. if the majority voted for anything it could think of, that becomes a house bill marked past. the senate will only be able to

change it economic and fiscal matters, because the filibuster sits in the way requiring 60 votes, which are unattainable in a senate that is 51-49. the democratic party currently has a small majority in the senate, they will not agree with the house. even if somehow they did agree, the president is going to veto the bill. there's not enough people in both houses to override the veto. if i were mitch mcconnell, my focus would be on holding the ball. i do not mean if there is a bill that republicans like they should not help pass it, but the role of mitch mcconnell over the next couple of years is going to be to sit back and accept almost nothing is going to be done and try and stop anything he and his party think would be bad for the country. i am sure mitch mcconnell is irritated that twice now, he's

been within grasp of the republican majority and because the republican party has picked a lot of bad candidates over and over again, that's been taken away from him. the biggest area that will affect mcconnell and republicans as judges. judges are appointed by simple majority. if there's another supreme court vacancy, the republicans cannot stop it. the districts and lower court vacancies are going to be filled by president biden at a high rate and there is some maneuvering mcconnell can do, but he should be looking forward if he is majority leader, he is getting old. host: let us go to larry in mississippi on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call.

thinking the whole time january 6 it would've never happened -- i think pelosi started this when she tore up the president speech in front of god and everybody. that is my thoughts. we never had any problem with blacks and white down here until about four or five years ago, whenever they started tearing statues down at all this. a lot of that came from up north, do believe. that is all of got to say. host: that caller had thoughts on race relations and other things, what are your responses? guest: i do not think january 6 visit nancy pelosi's fault, i think it was president trump's fault. i do not think he is legally culpable because, under the first amendment, we enjoy in a norma's breath of speech, including seditious speech.

that is how it should be. the president trump chose to live about the 2020 election and, in doing so, he and only riled up a mob, but tried to convince the vice president to rewrite that both amendment to the constitution and stage a coup. i think you should be held accountable for that non-courts, there is no criminal case, but by the public. i am somewhat convinced that is beginning to happen. his announcement for president has not been received well. on race relations, look. i am an immigrant, i came here 12 years ago. i will not pronounce on what it was like in the south four years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. but if you read american

history, it seems clear to me race relations have been a hell of a lot worse than they are now. the u.s. has had a lot of problems in this area. i am extremely pleased at the progress made and, as a conservative, i do dislike the claims you see from certain figures that things have never been worse or america does not improve, or america can't improve or america set up not to improve. i think that is false. i think the declaration of independence and the constitution that i as an immigrant took an oath to uphold , a beautiful document that's been a great thing for the world and, over time, have improved the united states. i think the promises made and that not cap -- capped -- kept

have been kept better more frequently. i am an optimist who is very moved by the changes we have seen and i think things will get better and we ought to tune out a lot of the voices that want to divide us. host: you just mentioned president trump and his role in january 6, there is a recent column you wrote. the headline is donald trump is a presidential candidate, not a medieval king. what do you mean by that? guest: a lot of people in the united states want to be president. some of them are gearing up to run. i think ron desantis, the governor of this day i live in, is one of them. perhaps greg abbott of texas,

tim scott of south carolina. there will be 5, 6, maybe 10. i started to notice people who are absolutely convinced the nominee in 2024 should be donald trump believe this is somehow unseemly or devious, disloyal even. anyone who any point in the republican party has praise donald trump or been praised by donald trump to run against him. i think this is a strange way of looking at politics. if you think donald trump is the best candidate to run in 24, say so. vote for him. that is not my view, but that is fine. no one is obliged to agree with me. but there is nothing disloyal about those who disagree, including candidates who exist within the same party as donald trump. that is a medieval way of looking at the world, that is a universe in which we bend our need to the king and promise to

be there. politics is transactional, it should be. politics ought to be given power and voters get to decide whether or not they give it to them. because they gave it to them once does not mean they have to give it again. because they liked them or praised them does not mean they have to do that in the future. if donald trump wants to be president of the united states again, he needs to make the case. he cannot -- i've seen this pop up in new stories that she cannot imply he should be given it by acclamation and anyone who disagrees is showing insidious lack of respect to him. that is not how politics works. host: let us go back to the phone lines. annie in north carolina on the independent line, go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span.

i'm going to make a comment with regard to the irs situation. i worked for a u.s. attorney's office for 21 years, i worked with dea agents, fbi. i also worked with irs agents who are in the criminal investigation division. those are the only agents, the only ones that carry guns. they have to go to the range three times a year -- i know this because i worked with them and scheduled grand jury testimonies -- this idea of 87,000, it is over a period of 10 years. irs agents and the worker bees and people that work the phone, paper returns, electronic returns, 10,000 americans turn

65 every day. i was one of them a few years ago. the equipment is old -- i do not like to say this, the people are old and leaving. so they can have a good retirement after being worked to the bone. this idea they are all carrying guns is a farce, it is not true. the only ones that carry weapons and have to have training are the criminal investigation. i worked on cases where they would have a room, 10 by 10, filled with filing cabinets and documents would take so much mind and brainpower to fight the tax cheats. it is so untrue, so i wanted to make that point. they are not all carrying weapons. things for listening. host: what has been your thoughts about the irs hiring,

replacing agents? house republicans said one of the first thing they want to do is take that money back so the irs cannot hire those 87,000 agents. guest: i had not actually heard the argument they were all carrying guns, perhaps that is out there. i think it is entirely reasonable for people to be scared of the irs and entirely reasonable for them to be scared even if they are not than anything wrong. it is entirely reasonable to be scared of all government agencies, irrespective of when you've done something wrong. that is obvious to most people outside the irs. the irs is more scary in some ways than most agencies, because it does not have the same separation between investigative and judicial powers we generally see in the united states. the fbi is a scary organization if you find yourself on the wrong side of it, but the fbi will investigate you end if it wishes to prosecute you, it has

to go to court. that is not the case for the host of irs functions. the irs can plate judge, jury and executioner. if it chooses not to play executioner, the very fact it is investigating you and your finances is terrifying. i think reasonably so. in some senses, the process is the punishment. if you think about what we do every year when we file our forms -- i've long been confused by this. if you remember back to debates over the patriot act after september 11, people were worried about this provision that could plausibly lead to a given person's library records being shared with the government. i agree, there is a lot wrong with the patriot act. compared to what we furnish the irs with every single year, it

is irrelevant. they know who we work for, they know what charities we give to, where we live. they know what square footage or houses if you have a home office deduction. every line you fill in, you get more and more information. that is much worse if you are audited. even if you have not done anything wrong. i get uncomfortable in all aspects of government, it does not have to be the irs, when people start talking about tax cheats redemptive lay in a way they would not elsewhere. the presumption of innocence is important and does say classical liberal on criminal justice. the idea of having 87,000 people , the primary purpose to audit people at random -- imagine if my local police department in florida said we are going to

flag certain people based on behavior we believe to be suspicious, or an algorithm we've developed. we are going to audit them, go to their house and see if they done anything wrong. that is scary. that would be unacceptable and i think it is unacceptable for the irs. i think people who worried about 87,000 people being hired to make that work have a good reason to be. i think at the beginning of this episode that steve made a good point when he said we are talking about people processing returns were answering the phone or building new software, there is a much stronger case. but outside of that, i think the resistance is warranted. host: texas, democratic line. what is your question or comment? caller: good morning. my observation is that mr. cooke

and i agree the former president should not be a candidate in 2024. as far as the current times, i will probably say im a liberal in america. i have changed my views over the years from time to time, but primarily liberal. i do share his optimism for a better time, so i think liberals and conservatives can find common ground in some areas. i hope we can in the next two to four years and going forward. we have not had that lately. as far as the investigations, donald trump should be held accountable. he was held accountable in 2020 and he needs to be held

accountable again. i believe there is sufficient evidence for him to be indicted for the stolen documents from national archives and i believe the doj gave him sufficient time to turn those back. he did not do it. it was a legal search warrant issued by a judge. with proper cause. i think we can find common ground, we used to do that in this country. host: we got your point. charles, do you see common ground? guest: i've seen there's a lot more common ground between americans than the press would have us believe. i do not mean we all agree, we do not. i am sure if we started talking

about abortion or gun control or the federal budget, we with the c3 -- disagree profoundly with one another. what i've noticed creeping in is the notion set by the loudest voices on both sides that we hate each other. maybe that is true in highly politicized places. but it is not true in the country at large. i do not argue about politics with the people who live around me. if i do discuss politics with them, we do not get angry with each other. i noticed the segment before i came on, you had a caller who said another colors of republicans are evil and he said it was democrats. i do not think either are evil. there are evil people and there always will be, but the idea of

describing 100 million people who are republicans or democrats as people -- evil is absurd and not the way most people think, which is great. most people are getting on with their lives and trying to find common ground. there will always be important issues we argue about, that is what i do for a living. i am not going to arbitrarily agree with people i do not agree with, i'm going to vote the way ifo and argue the way i argue. i do not see us in some pre-civil war scenario minutes away from taking up arms against neighbors. i think america is a pretty great friendly place in which people are kind to each other and we have political disagreements. host: the last caller on the republican line, we are running short on time. give us something quick. caller: i would like you to answer one question. the democrats control both the

house and the senate the last two years, how can president biden stood up this morning and said it was the fault of republicans? guest: because president biden is a politician and his job is to say every single thing good in the country is because of him into every single thing that is bad is because of the republicans. he knows that by and large the press will echo that sentiment. it is not true. host: that will wrap up our time. charles c.w. cooke, a senior writer at the national review. he is also a podcast host. thanks for joining us this morning. that will wrap it up for us. washington journal will return tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, things for joining us. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

♪ democracy. >> up next, director of the consumer financial protection bureau testifies on consumer protection and regulatory matters before the senate banking committee. part of the