>> robert woodson, founder and president of the woodson center, talks about martin luther king day 2023. then, spencer overton talks about race in america. later, benjamin chavis speaks on his op-ed about what dr. martin luther king jr. can teach americans on working together despite differences. you can join the conversation with your calls, text messages and tweets. washington journal starts now. ♪ host: it is no secret that the financial health of americans key retirement benefit programs,

social security and medicare have been neglected or delayed for some day in the future. that day could be close in hand with republicans running the u.s. house. in order to raise the debt limit, house leaders made it clear they are pressing for spending cuts and report say some of that may come in the form of pushing for changes in social security and medicare. good morning, it is monday, january 16, 2023. the federal martin luther king day holiday, we will talk about dr. king later in the program. this first hour, we are asking you about social security and medicare. do you support changes to social security and medicare? if you were under the age of 65, (202) 748-8000. if you are a social security or medicare recipient, the line is (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 748-8002. we welcome your comments via fax

(202) 748-8003 -- via text, i should say. twitter and instagram @cspanwj. we will hear about this looming debt limit deadline coming up from several members of congress, we will also play for you some of president biden's comments yesterday at the historic ebenezer baptist church in atlanta, marking the mlk day holiday. this first hour, we are focusing a social security and medicare. do you support changes to those programs? again, prompted by the looming debt limit deadline coming up. the treasury secretary talking about that late last week. the headline from the washington times this morning, federal government to hit debt limit this week. federal government will bump up

against its limit this week. putting congress on notice that it must approve an increase or risk uncle sam not being able to cover the bills. secretary janet yellen said friday her department will use other tools to cover payments. those tools can only last so long. once they run out, congress and president biden have not agreed to an increase, the government will be able to pay only according to income. on the issue of social security itself and the debt limit, axios wrote about that as the we can begin. the fight looms over at a care in medicaid. house republicans do not have much of a path to get major health care changes past with a democratic senate and president with one possible exception, the debt ceiling fight. they say it is not clear which spending cuts house republicans will push for an exchange to

expanding the government's borrowing authority later this year, but some say health care programs like medicare and medicaid should be on the table. others mindful how the talk of cuts has brought political repercussions saying they want to steer clear of the programs. do you support changes in medicare and social security? it is (202) 748-8000 for 65 and under, (202) 748-8001 for social security and medicare recipients. all others, (202) 748-8002. this is a report on the health of social security medicare systems by the numbers, 2022 trustees report analyzed. by 2028, the hospital insurance trust fund will be depleted and there is a 10% shortfall in payments for medical services affecting 74 million enrollees

by 2028. social security, the time went to watch is 2034. old age and survivors insurance trust fund will be depleted, the trustees report says. we will potentially see a 23% cut in benefits affecting 71 million beneficiaries. on the debt ceiling fight in particular, here is raphael warnock yesterday on this week with george stephanopoulos. [video clip] >> house republicans say they want something in return for raising the debt limit, that there has got to be some controls on spending in exchange for raising the debt limit. you have heard from the white house that they will not negotiate. that is the message. no negotiation on this, republicans just have to raise the debt limit. is that a mistake? you are the 18th most bipartisan, campaigned on working republicans. shouldn't the white house be open to negotiations?

>> here is the thing we have to be careful of. we have to make sure we do not make the work in d.c. about politicians. the fact of the matter is, we can do deficit reduction. we can deal with our national debt. at the same time, the last thing we ought to be doing is playing chicken with the american economy. we've been through the onslaught of a very long pandemic that has created a lot of challenges for american families. they pay their bills, i think they expect the government to pay its bills. we can do this on a bipartisan basis as we have done time and time again. i think we lose our way when we make the issue about politicians. i am focused on the people of georgia. i'm focused on farmers who are trying their best to make it work in this tough economy.

i'm thinking about ordinary workers who deserve a livable wage. i'm thinking about those trying to make their lives work. when we make it about politicians, we lose our way. host: we are opening our question for you on this monday about social security and medicare, focusing on whether you support changes, what type of changes to social security and medicare. for those under 65, (202) 748-8000. social security and medicare recipient, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 748-8002. first to indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not think social security or medicare should be changed or reduced. i think this whole discussion about budget deficits and that kind of thing is an irrational kind of discussion to have.

because the u.s. is a sovereign currency nation. can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: sorry, i got distracted. the need to fund social security from tax revenue is irrational and not true. all federal expenditures are new issued currency. it is not from tax proceeds. these bad-faith arguments we do not have sufficient funds, funding something as important as security of senior citizens, is just a ridiculous argument area i think the hold that ceiling should be eliminated. it makes no sense in the current framework of our monetary system , which is a sovereign currency. not a tax revenue-based currency model, which means we have the funds. the u.s. government can issue its own currency any value we want.

we don't need to raise taxes, we do not need to do any of that. the way federal expenditures are funded, it is all issued currency. it is not from tax revenue. the arguments we have about the budget are irrational. host: to baltimore, william is on the line. caller: good morning, thanks for c-span. i am going to receive may vary for social security check on wednesday this year. it is quite an anticipated moment. my wife has been receiving checks for about a veer -- a year. we have worked hard in social security is the people's money. we earned it, paid taxes all her lives. republicans at every opportunity -- with this trickle-down economy fairytale. we need to better spend our tax

dollars and this military spending is out of control, the ukrainian aide has to come to an end. we cannot be protectors of the whole world any longer. then, talk about taking away social security. host: sorry we lost you on that, we have another recipient of social security headline from cnbc. when social security beneficiaries can expect their first checks in 2023 to include cost-of-living, eight point 7% cost-of-living adjustment. starting this month, more than 65 million social security beneficiaries will receive checks that include a record-breaking 8.7 cost-of-living adjustment, social security benefits are slated to increase by more than $140 per month on average, according to the social security administration. next up in new york on the

recipient line, go ahead. caller: yes, i am a uaw worker from upstate new york. we need to do three things to stabilize social security. i am still working, i am a recipient but still working. we need to raise the age limit from 62 when you first start receiving it, raise the cap on it. it's around 150,000. we are going to have to raise the contribution from 6.2% for social security and 1.5% for medicare, because you just can't receive -- today's workers, if they want to receive its help retirement, they've got to contribute more to it. everybody likes social security but do not necessarily want to pay for it. social security is the most successful government program we

have, because it is shared security. in a country where we mostly have looking out for number one, we are looking out for the other person. that is our contribution. host: this is the headline from insider, damaging cuts to medicare and social security are looking more likely with mccarthy as house speaker. here's what we'll mean for retirees. the speaker says that is not true. in comments to reporters, a news briefing at the end of the legislative week last week thursday, here's what the speaker said. [video clip] >> the one thing i know, when republicans were in power those eight years, discretionary spending increased zero. i watched emma kratz take over for four years and increase it by 30%. they went from 4 trillion to 7 trillion. i watched inflation grow under their fiscal policies. we have got to get our house in order.

as republicans, we will always protect medicare and social security. we will protect that for the next generation. we are going to scrutinize every single dollar spent. it is the right of the hard-working taxpayer that pays it and we want to make sure it is spent wisely and not the way democrats are spending. host: a couple comments on social media. medicare reduced their rates, social security raised income and the biting dictatorship handed you a bill for $1.7 trillion. what is not to like? that 8.7% increase is nothing to cheer about. imagine if a family rather house like the government. after paying for the mortgage and health insurance, dad spends 50% of what is left on guns. somebody would call cps on him. raise the cap, republicans want to destroy it.

in maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. i worked very hard and contributed to my social security from the time i had my first job in high school. this is something i have earned. i do not think they should mess with that, do not take that from us. if you need more, tax those who are earning more. host: to florida on the under 65 line, what are your thoughts? caller: yes, i would like to make just one change. that would be to medicare. right now, you have to wait until you are 65. i'll be turning 65 in may. what i would do, i'd make medicare for all. i think that would be a perfectly reasonable thing.

our health care system, while actual doctors, surgeons are the best in the world, the problem is having access. insurance rates are just ridiculous. i think if we had medicare for all, for all ages, it would spread out all the risk so a lot more young people would be in their. i think it would cost less money, that is the one change i would make, thank you. host: on medicare in particular, the peterson foundation with their analysis of last year's trustees report, the report came out last june, they write that will medicare is funded in part by payroll taxes, the largest source of financing currently comes from the federal government general fund. it is projected to continue to grow, which would put pressure on the federal budget. the general fund now paying 46% of medicare income and the

general fund, 49% they predict by the year 2052 under current law. virginia is next. caller: good morning. give me just a minute, i will be quick and to give you some information about the situation i find myself in. i am 65 years old. i am giving a shout out to black americans, the black americans, i want them to know that under the administration, a senior citizen like myself who had a heart attack in 2004 and had to stop working, it went up $40 under the trump administration.

president obama, joe biden, neither one raise the rent. the government apartment that i live in on fixed income. i'm thinking americans to realize the republican party will not help these people. they will not, they won't. they continue to do everything they can to destroy social security and medicare. black americans, i am telling you, please be careful. host: we are getting a little interference in the background, we have got your point. janice is next in portland. you are on the air. make sure you mute your television and go ahead. caller: ok. alright, i did that. what i want to say is this. i am going to be turning 68 this year.

every time the republicans get in the house of congress, the first thing they want to do is get rid of social security. they want to get rid of social security, medicaid, medicare. they said these contribute to the debt ceiling, which it does not. they do that. they want to privatize social security, medicare, medicaid, all of this. they want the state to take over. this does not make sense for me. i do not understand why they want to take this from people. it is just ridiculous. host: we had brendan boyle on the program last week, the incoming ranking member on the budget committee in the u.s. house, a democrat from pennsylvania. i asked him what he thought republicans plans were for social security and medicare in the upcoming budget debate. [video clip] >> they plan to use the debt ceiling as leverage to hold the rate ceiling as hostage in order

to win cuts to social security and medicare. i am amazed they were that blocked and, to their credit, came out and said what they intend to do. i think it is pretty clear that is their position. it is hardly a new position for the republican side. on the democratic side, whether it is the president or the democratic house side, we will stand and fight every step of the way. >> what do you think has to be done for social security and medicare? >> to be clear, there is enough revenue coming into social security to pay 100% of benefits. that is the case until 2035. the middle part of the next decade, we rented to a significant funding shortfall. that will continue because of issues with the aging of the population and the fact we have fewer workers today paying into the system as opposed to what we used to have.

very simply, we need more revenue in the system. i've been a long time social security 2100, led by my colleague john larson. we have a plan. i hope that we would be voting on it to the end of last year, that did not happen. i am still a strong supporter of it. the idea you have people making millions and millions of dollars a year, yet they only pay a fraction into social security, means they are paying a far lower percentage in social security tax than most that i represent philadelphia. host: needing more revenue, needing more workers. here is the analysis of the peotter foundation on the trustees report. one of the major drivers of medicare and social security costs is the aging of the population. as the baby boom generation retires, social security, medicare, hospital insurance programs will have fewer revenue contributing workers for each beneficiary.

the 2022 report, 2.8 million workers per beneficiary ratio, it will be far less than that by 2020 -- 2042, plus changes are made according to the trustees report and analysis of the peterson foundation. we go to gary next in connecticut. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i am a social security recipient, i just turned 76 last month -- i should say earlier this month. i've been on social security since 66, 67 this euro -- 67 years old. i believe the program needs to be modified, there is no question about that. there are various ways of doing it. as they have in the past, slightly increasing retirement age. number two is the means testing.

means testing social security is another way of doing it. host: appreciate that, we will go to michigan on the under 65 line. what are you hoping changes will be made in social security so you are able to benefit from it? caller: i think, if anything -- i agree with the caller earlier that said expand medicare. listen to some of bernie sanders ' ideas, expand medicare. expand social security. medicare is being slowly privatized right now, there is no reporting on that. with these medicare advantage plans, i do not know how they are called medicare except for medicare gives money to private

insurance companies, which is not seem right to me. one of the things people never talk about is the flat wages we have had for the last 40 years. i wonder what effect that has had on money going into medicare. aside from the fact that, as other people have pointed out, the cap after you make 140 thousand dollars or 150 thousand dollars, you do not pay anything, which is not seem right to me. -- does not seem right to me. social security h was increased under george w. bush, that affected me. it used to be 60 and 65, now it is 62 and 67. the people who are affected by that have not even gotten up to

the social security age yet. myself being one of them. the longevity for the working class has been going down in the united states, going up for super rich people. but longevity in the united states is going down for the working class. so raising the age is ridiculous. host: knowing your uncertainty about potential benefits for you with social security, what are you doing personally -- how much is social security a part of your planning for retirement? what else are you doing to mitigate any loss of social security income? caller: i have done what i can. i have a 401(k), i am one of the few people my age and younger that have a little bit of a pension coming up. i might be ok.

i think -- i would suggest c-span has alex lawson from social security works on to talk about social security and medicare. he is a plethora of knowledge, i'm sure you've heard of him. that would be a great person to have on for your viewers to get concrete, factual information about social security and medicare. i am sure he knows about how medicare is being privatized slowly but surely. host: i appreciate the guest suggestion, as this issue obviously is not going away. we certainly will have future segments in the coming weeks and months. go ahead.

caller: yes, i am a social security and medicare recipient, and i am the chairman of the board of a retirement and benefit program. half the people who go to work on any given day will never get a pension. they only have $7,500 in savings. that is not according to me, that is according to investment consultants and money managers. if the congressman want to put us in poverty, eliminate social security and medicare. that was created in 1935 because half the people then lived below the poverty line. host: in this role that you said you manage, are you managing time and fund? -- retirement fund? tell us more about that.

caller: the board of trustees we approve our pension fund managers. it is a defined contribution and participants choose the investments based on their age level. risk investments, like younger people should be in small caps, big caps and real estate. older people should be in government bonds. we call it corporate paper, it is corporate bonds. that is the thing. this debt limit, not increasing the debt limit, it would impact our ability to pay benefits. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i always hear cuts from medicare, cuts from medicare. does this country every think of cutting welfare programs, foreign money we send out? why do we have to cut the poor people who are recipients of medicare who really depend and need that money? they are all senior citizens who cannot get a part-time job. some of these people collecting welfare all these years our young people who can get out and go get a job. maybe we start cutting that type of program and cutting foreign money going to foreign countries that give us absolutely nothing, but come here and destroy our country. we have all this porter crisis going on. don't you think some of this people coming here are going to be taking from the medicare fund we worked so hard for? people work hard for medicare. they pay for medicare. that should never, ever be cut. host: brian in kansas on the

under 65 line. caller: good morning. i have had this argument with my mom before, about got into it with her. she probably paid and may be $150,000 in her lifetime, now she is 83 years old. she's been drawing for 20 years. when you take the medicare part of it is what is breaking it, because social security would be sustainable, i think. but just her drugs are $12,000 a year. you take that and social security, sometimes she is in the hospital with a heart condition, it is hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars. before she dies, it will probably cost a million dollars. she paid in 150 thousand dollars, that is not sustainable.

a lot of people do that, a lot of people end up in the nursing home. that is $70,000 a year. they do not pay in anything. the health care part of it is what is causing the trouble. had to call in and get it straight for everybody. it is not sustainable. host: i appreciate the perspective. is your mom still alive? caller: yes, she is still alive and she is fine. she may live another 10 years. in her lifetime, she has probably paid and may be 150 thousand dollars, maybe 200 thousand dollars to social security and medicare. i looked at mine, i paid and probably 100 $50,000 combined social security medicare. i'm getting ready to go on social security. if i live 20 years and get $15,000 a year, see what i'm

saying? that is $300,000, that is all my money back. you got to figure interest and things like that you could have accumulated if you would have done your own health savings account. host: i appreciate the perspective and sharing your personal experience. this is the washington post writing about the president's visit yesterday to atlanta, the ebenezer baptist church to honor mlk. biden touts a time to choose, president biden returned to georgia sunday and used his speech commemorating reverend martin luther king jr. to reiterate some of the themes of his 2020 campaign and a possible preview of 2024, marking his first visit to the state and more than a year. here are some of the speech yesterday at ebenezer baptist church. [video clip] >> dr. martin luther king was born in a nation where

segregation was a tragic fact of life. he had every reason to believe as others did that history had already been written, that the division would be america's destiny. but he rejected that outcome, heard the command to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly. so often when people hear about dr. king, people think of his ministry and the movement were most about the epic struggle for civil rights and voting rights. we do well to remember that his mission was something even deeper. it was spiritual. it was moral. the goal of the southern christian leadership conference, which dr. king led, stated it clearly and boldly. it must be repeated again now.

to redeem the soul of america -- i am not joking. to redeem the soul of america, what is a soul of america? is it -- it is easy to say, what is the soul of america? the soul is the breath, the life, the essence of who we are. a soul makes us us. the soul of america is embodied in a sacred proposition that we are all created equal in the image of god. that was the sacred proposition for which dr. king gave his life . the sacred proposition rooted in scripture and enshrined in the declaration of independence. the sacred proposition he invoked on that day in 1963 when he told my generation about his dream. a dream in which we are all

entitled to be treated with, my father's favorite word, dignity and respect. a dream in which we all deserve liberty and justice, and it is still the task of our time to make that dream a reality. it is not there yet. host: president biden yesterday in atlanta, looking here at the mlk memorial in the nation's capital. just to let you know, our programming plans for today, live coverage later this morning, the president will be speaking at the national action network martin luther king day breakfast, getting underway at 10:30 eastern life on c-span -- live on c-span and c-span.org. you can catch it for free after that on the free mobile app, c-span now. more about the life and legacy of dr. king and racial equality in this country on this program

later in the program. this first hour, we are focusing on the health and future social security. do you support changes to medicare and social security? the looming debt ceiling fight ahead, (202) 748-8000 is the line for those of you under the age of 65. (202) 748-8001 if you are a social security medicare recipient. for all others, (202) 748-8002. some comments of social media. on twitter, what is the effect of 5 million illegal aliens being absorbed into the health care system? emergency rooms must provide care. we the taxpayers pay that bill. i support an increase to social security and medicare. how may decades to the government borrow money for different wars and no politician complained about the cost or budget? increase in expand social security and medicare, no cuts. steve says relax. considering all the jobs being created under biden a more

people will be paying into the fund than ever. we will be fine. next to joe in new york on the others' line, go ahead. caller: good morning, how are you? host: fine, thank you. caller: if we are being so fiscally responsible, when you get elected to senate or congress -- my starting pay was $175,000. you get all the benefits they have. these guys are truthful being so conservative about money, cut your own salaries. how about working a five day week? they do not. i work eight hours, 10 hours a day. do they do? we are still paying george santos for lying. i could not do that. host: thanks for the call. in new jersey, good morning.

caller: he means test for social security recipients --a means test for social security recipients could help. my parents could have withstood a modest decrease in their social security checks because they had a lot of money. a means test is something we ought to look at. the financial stability of the united states is very weak at this moment. host: under 65 line in maryland, go ahead. caller: hi, how are you? host: fine, thanks. caller: there are so many people, including politicians, who do not acknowledge this even though they know damn well it is true. there are people -- i am one --

i am under 65. i get social security. i get it because i'm on disability. i really pity the individual who would begrudge his mother about getting social security because of how much she put in the system. i became disabled when i was 30. i had no control over that. this is what the right does not seem to understand. people do not have much control over this when they have a sudden accident, they seem to think they are immune to this. the woman that called in about medicare advantage, it has nothing to do with social security or medicare giving them money. that is a lot of nonsense. a completely bogus operation for profit that we are allowed to use the name of social security.

i get medicare, i get medicaid. the other thing is ssi and ssdi. if you have a disability or if your funds do not get you through the month. host: when do you go on ssdi? caller: nobody even knows what that is. medicaid, i get medicaid, that is through the state. this is what medicare for all should be. everything covered that is not vanity oriented. all that stuff is covered. the only thing i pay for is a dollar per my prescriptions. this is what everyone should have, it can be done. host: you mention you are on social security disability, how long have you been on ssdi?

caller: they want cheap labor. that is their ultimate goal. but i would like to point out the people, that is all i wanted to say, there are people who are on social security who get it at a younger age. people that are born with disabilities. these people are completely ignorant to how the system works. do some research on it, thank. host: to the others' line in vermont, go ahead. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. happy mlk day. number one, i want to start off. the national debt in our country at this point in time begins with 31, there is 3, 6, nine, a lot more numbers after that. each share of the population to

balance the budget would have to pay over $94,000. when i was in college, i went back to school when i was 29 years old, each share of person would have been around $14,000. so really, the country needs to set term limits for politicians and the higher echelon and the budget needs to be managed in a manner that helps the people that need it and not the ones that are on the dole. i collect two retirements from working my whole life, i am currently working at 65.5 and will collect social security at my full retirement age of 66.5. i think the national debt is out of control he had people need to stop eating each other.

i was a democrat -- hating each other. i was a democrat and i switched to republican because of reckless spending. the country should be run for the people, not rich politicians who were spending and spending on both sides. host: the issue of national debt was on the mind of a republican from arizona. he spoke last week on the house floor about that, about the primary drivers of that debt. saying it is social security and medicare. [video clip] >> the majority, the vast majority of u.s. spending is what we call mandatory. it is entitlement. you get it because you work so many quarters, because you turned a certain age, because you are a certain level of poverty. you get these benefits, they are automatic. it is a formula.

overhear, see this green part, that is discretionary. that is what we call nondefense discretionary. that is your foreign aid, fbi, irs come all those things. in the blue, that is defense. you are going to see -- i will show you some charts later. on the left they will throw rhetoric out, cut defense, get rid of it. believe it or not, it is not enough money to keep us in balance. you could get rid of every dog. who needs to be an understanding of reality, your government is an insurance company with the army. it happens to be the truth. host: full star weighing in on the morning topic on social media and via text at (202) 748-8003.

the only way they should fix social security is to raise the cap. once social security becomes means tested, a caller suggested that, it is no longer social security. it becomes another form of welfare. that can and will be subjected to cuts during every federal budget negotiation. i am 73 and a social security and medicare recipient. many people do not know i pay a medicare insurance premium every month that it catered from my regular social security payment. i get monthly statements from medicare advantage insurance carrier for 2022, mount the premiums exceeded the insurance benefits i received. -- my insurance premiums exceeded the insurance benefits i received. as is the case with average americans, which would immediately end the specter of the program.

from pittsburgh, go ahead. caller: three or so points. first to the guy who wanted to kill off his mother because she was spending too much of his money, i pity him. if i was his mother, i'd be watching his back. host: i do not think that was the intention. caller: that is not the way i heard it. host: go ahead. caller: i do not know what people think about people who get social security. what do they think they do with the money? i get it, i spend it right away. i spend all my children, my grandchildren. if there is any change to be made, it would be give me more money. people are retiring at an earlier age, that would more people to work. when i retired, by bosco hired

two people for what he was paying me. -- boss could hire two people for what he was paying me. if they get more money, they put it back into the economy. i will be dead in a couple years. another point, the same thing for the guy that she did not like his mother getting all that money, let us put it that way. he does not understand millions of people are dying before they can collect social security. what is going on with all that money? this guide does not think from both sides. there people who died when they are 45, 55. they do not get social security, what goes on with that money? if the social security ages raised, there should be a law passed that anyone who wants to stay in their job until they reach retirement age, they should be allowed to stay in the

job or the employer should give them a severance package for the amount of years it would take to get to retirement. age is a big thick and people are getting retired when they reach an age their boss or employer thinks they are not as productive as they should be. when you going to do? you are fired or laid off at 65 in you have to wait till you are 72 collect -- 70 to collect? host: texas on the under 65 line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. it seems to me social security is another example of financial irresponsibility of our government. the program is supposed to come out and provide for people when they get into their senior years, they are paying into this constantly throughout their lifetime.

it is nothing less than a ponzi scheme. the social security program is about to collapse, that is why you are seeing these changes and the influence of immigration to help cover their asses over social security. they turned into a ponzi scheme. when i go to retire, i am 58 years old. when i go to retire, they will turn it to 70. i will have to work an additional five years. who will be putting into it for me? i social security is not being paid for me, mine has been spent on my parents with the people retired since then. i do not see where this money is going to come from to continue paying social security out to millions of people that are about to start retiring right now. what you are seeing in the changes of the rules and what you are seeing in the influence of immigration is a ponzi

scheme, that is the way i see it. host: appreciate that. last on the issue of the debt, the president weighed in last week after the house passed a bill that would rescind proposed expansion of irs funding. here is what the president said about the effect of that on the debt and the potential threat to entitlement programs. [video clip] >> is this how house republicans start the new term? cutting taxes for billionaires, raising taxes for working families, making inflation works -- worse? if any of these bills make it to my desk, i will veto them. i will flat veto them. i am ready to work with republicans, not this kind of stuff. they try to cut social security and medicare that americans have been paying into every paycheck since they got their first paycheck, i will use my veto pen to stop that as well. if republicans want to work together on real solutions to lower inflation, create jobs, build an economy for everyone, i

am ready. host: back to your calls in colorado, good morning to julie. caller: good morning. thanks for c-span. this is the second time in my life i have called, i am 50 years old. i am on social security and medicare, i'm on social security disability and ssi. i have a proposal, not my proposal. if they would raise the cap on the amount of an income social security is taxed on in 2023, raise it to 106 $2000 -- $160,000 -- just raising the cap only affect 6% of american workers in this country. i do not think that would be a hardship at all. host: new jersey up next, go ahead. caller: hi.

i am 69 years old. 2010, the cap was this 2011 i got involved. -- 2011 i got involved. [indiscernible] host: from the peterson foundation, we've been touching some of the charts they produced in their analysis last june. just the difference in the revenue that is coming in and payable benefits.

combined social security benefits could be cut by 20% in 2035 without legislative action. the chart of scheduled benefits by that point and the revenue is coming in, in other words payable benefits at that time. under 65 in new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. regarding social security deficit, this is occurring in the last 40 years. the politicians have been lying to us about inflation and they want to keep interest at zero, they want to work with big pocket guys, big corporations. they want to cut their taxes, lower the interest rates, to lower the interest rate they have to lie about real inflation. if you see the chart, you see the deficit in social security

is quite close to dropping the so-called inflation or deflation they were reporting for video decades. -- for many decades. the social security program does not sound social at all, to me. first of all, a person is contributing into it, then he gets a part of his contribution back. we could do that on our own. would they need to do is make each and every person contribute , does not matter how high they make. the distribution should be equal to each and every member of society so in retirement, everybody can enjoy equally. the fruits of this collective gain. it should not be running in deficit, it should be running in surplus. if they never lied about inflation, this program would be running in surplus.

they left a majority of the people contributing to this just hanging there, struggling and asking for more, because the cost of living keeps rising and they keep telling us there is deflation. host: appreciate the input, the speaker of the house yesterday was on morning futures on fox, we played his comments earlier. here, the speaker talks about his idea, republican ideas, for the u.s. economy. [video clip] >> what i really think we would do is treat this like we would treat our own household. if you had a child, gave them a credit card and they kept hitting the limit, you would not keep increasing it. you would see what they are spending money on, how can we cut items out? every government has to do this. every state, county, city has to balance the budget. for the white house to say they will not look at it, they cannot find one penny out of a dollar

of eliminating waste, i think they are trying to put us into bankruptcy. what i am saying and i conversation with the president, let us sit down together. let us look at places we could change your behavior. why don't you make the house and senate produce a budget? they do not produce a budget, you know they are wasting money. why don't you say they both have to do appropriation bills? the senate did not do appropriation bills and two senators wrote a $1.7 trillion bill right before christmas no one could read. are you going to tell me there is no waste and that? -- in that? this is hard-working taxpayer money. we can find and eliminate those things, that is all we are saying. let us sit down and change our behavior for the good of america. what we are going to do is bankrupt this country and entitlements if we do not change your behavior today. host: speaker mccarthy yesterday on fox, the houses out this week

back in their districts for the mlk work period and are back to legislative work next week. we are whenever when they are in session, they are live on c-span. editorial writers in the washington post this morning touting c-span's coverage of the election for speaker, let c-span back into the house is the editorial this morning. they write that watching congress was boring last week when not just because the speaker drama had been resolved. when the house came back into session monday night to vote on the rules package for the next two years, citizens viewing at home saw less of what was happening on the floor because government employees instead of independent camera operators controlled the video feed that projected static images. during the days before the congress was sworn in, americans were given a rare opportunity to see representatives at work elsewhere in the chamber, engaged in candida give and take. we support bipartisan efforts to

make that the new norm in the people's house writes the washington post. they concluded saying refreshingly, a bipartisan reach of all bakers -- lawmakers is calling for changing the rules to allow this. it is humanizing said a representative. the view of congress is antiquated and glorified. gaetz told fox news after introducing a measure to allow c-span cameras in the chamber, glad to introduce their own legislation to liberate the cameras. so far, mr. mccarthy's office is noncommittal. we hope he listens to his members. this is not about political theater or creating fodder for comedians, nor does it have to have anything to do with ratings.

it is about giving the nation a more accurate view of how congress really works and often does not. a couple more calls on the morning topic about social security and medicare. michigan on the others' line, go ahead. caller: good morning. it amazes me how we talk about budgets, spending and money. any time an individual goes out to purchase something, they usually know how much money they have. when we talk about spending, no one asks the question about how much do we have? if we go by the information we

get from the federal government, the usa duckworth -- net worth as of today is over $120 trillion. we talk about the debt. when you say debt, that is what is left after you have calculated the gross and ticket the cost away. -- taken the cost away. when i look at this, if we paid off the debt, every citizen in america, including the babies, have assets of over a quarter million dollars.

we have all the economists and people that figure out things. if you walk in a store and a guy goes to tell you what something costs and you pay for it, there is no debt. for social security, social security is not a tax. it is an insurance decided by a man from alabamaand his wife peo take a look at what was going on in the small town. it was so good until he decided to bring it to the floor in the congress. and it is not based upon what you pay into it, but it is for

all the citizens. host: thank you for your comments. we will go to james in arkansas. caller: good morning. my big thing has been the fact, at least since 28 years ago when we had a balanced budget of such and you look at that congressman's chart that had 1983 until this year, in 1983 the only people that were retired were the pre-world war ii generation. and there were not that many of them. and then my grandparents's generation started retiring around the same time frame. boom, this century happened and the last 10 years, the baby boomers have been retiring.

and that is what is this whole thing. there was not much my generation left after 73 for a while to pay for but now we have the z's and the millennials behind us but there are so many of these baby boomers around still. host: james and to all of our callers, thank you. we will be talking about the issue in weeks and months to come. up next on this holiday, we will devote the rest of the program to racial equality and healing the racial and political divide in the u.s.. up first, community living leader and other and the founder of the woodson center, robert woodson is with us next. later, spencer overton.

>> over four days, unprecedented access to the floor of u.s. house as california republican representative kevin mccarthy became the 50 for speaker of the house. it was history in the making with unscripted political moments like we always have for the past 43 years with complete, uninterrupted, unbiased coverage of congress. here is what people are saying about c-span. c-span is america's hottest tv drama in 2023. the wall street journal says the house speaker drama has one winter, c-span. and from the washington post, c-span has become must watch tv.

on one thing you can be sure, c-span will be there thanks to the support of these cable and satellite companies. >> back from june to november of 1962, paul gregory reportedly knew lee and marina oswald better than anyone else. two hours after president kennedy's assassination, mr. gregory, a student at the university of oklahoma, was watching television and some members of the dallas police escorting the suspect into the police headquarters. paul gregory said out loud, i know that man. meaning lee harvey oswald. 50 years later, he has written for the first time his account of his friendship with the oswald and his wife.

>> author paul gregory on book notes plus. it is available on the c-span now app or wherever you get your podcast. if you are enjoying book tv using the qr code to receive the schedule of upcoming programs, book festivals, and more. book tv come every sunday on c-span 2 or online. television for serious readers. >> "washington journal" continues. host: on this mlk holiday, we have robert woodson, founder and president of the woodson center. welcome back to "washington journal." guest: delighted to be here. host: remind our viewers why you

founded the woodson center. guest: i am a dropout of the civil rights movement. i was leading demonstrations in the 1960's in pennsylvania about three miles from philadelphia. it was outside of pharmaceutical company. they hired nine phd black chemists but we approach these in and women to ask him to join our movement and they said they got these jobs because they were qualified not because of the sacrifices we had made. this happened a couple of times and i realized i am the wrong movement. that i saw a bait and switch going on. that people were using the general situation of all blacks but when the remedies arrived, it benefits those at the top so i set out to work on behalf of low income people of all races that after the civil rights laws had passed, the biggest

challenge we faced was helping people who are disadvantaged because of their income and family circumstance. so the center is kind of a way for me to reach out and help low income people of all races to develop solutions from within their own community. host: when you founded the woodson center, you felt this was a message not getting out there. did you feel this was an area where martin picking junior himself had actually spoken -- martin luther king jr. himself had spoken and empower the work you wanted to do at the woodson center? >> he was shifting, too. when king said what good does it do to have the right to eat at a restaurant of your choosing or live in a neighborhood that you choose if you don't have any economic means to exercise that right? and so he died in fact

supporting the garbage of the trash workers. some he shifted from social agenda to economics and paying special attention to the poor. but the civil rights movement in general never made that shift. it continued to pursue solutions and seek remedies that helped middle-class and those above. i claim at the expense of those at the bottom. host: quite a range of evolution of use from you from that, from your time also at the national urban league and now as a resident fellow and fairly conservative washington think tank at the american enterprise institute. guest: i described my political philosophy as radical pragmatism. i believe as dr. king also said that black america has no permanent friends or enemies. we should base it on our

strategic interests and therefore it was -- if most of the people at the urban league and other civil rights, they are part of what i call a pottery -- poverty industry that america spent $22 trillion in the last 50 years on programs to aid the poor, $.70 of every dollar does not go to the poor but to those who serve the poor. they ask which problems are fundable, not which are solvable. it does not matter how compassionate you are if your career and your reputation depends upon my being dependent on you, then we have strategic interests that are hostile to one another. by contrast, if you are oriented toward business and enterprise, you have no proprietary interest in the maintenance of poverty. therefore, i began to reach out to people who had strategic

interests that were compatible with the people i served. host: robert woodson, we welcome your -- is with us. we welcome your comments and questions on this holiday. where do you think the woodson center, your work there, has made the most inroads in solving some of the problems you have talked about. guest: over the years we have highlighted some dramatic examples of how paid professionals who parachute programs into low-income communities, that approach has failed repeatedly. that is why the poverty programs and all that money has not cured the problem. we take the principles of the market economy and apply to the social economy. only 3% of the people are

entrepreneurs on our market economy, but they generate 70% of the jobs. that is where the innovation is. so what we do is we go into low-income, high crime neighborhoods and ask not who is failing but who is succeeding against the odds so we have been able to go and find some very enterprising, social entrepreneurs. add we have helped support them -- and we have helped to support them and highlight their success in adjusting problems. my own town of philadelphia which used to be the youth gang capital of america, they would report that gang deaths next to the vietnam death. i worked with the woman and her husband whose eldest of six sons was a gang member. she said, i don't know anything about gangs but i know something about families so bring your

friends here. host: in a city like philadelphia or chicago where crime nationwide may be plateaued or down in some areas, violent crime, gun crime is up in cities like littlefield. what do you think is driving it in philadelphia and other major cities? guest: several things. first of all, the absence of fathers is one. but also i think this occupation we have with looking at everything through the prism of race has done enormous contributed to the problems. the demonization of police. villain is asian of police over the -- villainizati of policeo over the years. 14n years ago when a young black and was shot by a cop in the civil rights leaders came in and boycotted the city -- the white police said, we are not going to

rigorously enforce laws in these communities. the result was the murder rate and low income black neighborhoods went up 800% in the city. the people who lost jobs were cafeteria workers, people who worked downtown in the stores. but none of the civil rights leaders are these pastors lived in these troubled neighborhoods, so they did not have to suffer the consequences of their advocacy. what the woodson center does by contrast is go into those high crime neighborhoods and find out who is solving the problem from within. philadelphia is an example, what this woman did with her family as a model is she recruited young gang members and converted them from predators to ambassadors of peace. and they began to reach out and after about a year, 100 young men were seeking sanctuary, knocked on the door it she said,

look, you have to work, we have to be peaceful. they retired her mortgage in two years. host: you still think programs like this can be successful? guest: i can give you examples of it right now where a group we have worked with successfully in washington last summer went into one of the most violent neighborhoods, and they did not have a single violent incident in the 400 days because the approach of recruiting young people from within the community that have -- to act as moral mentors and character coaches. they witnessed two others that transformation and redemption is possible. but you would think with that kind of accomplishment, it would be front page news. host: mr. woodson, we have calls waiting and i want to expound a

little on the crime and unexpected, certainly horrific crime, that you tweeted about the shooting in virginia of the school teacher, a six year old student you tweeted is in custody after the shooting of a teacher in virginia elementary school. six years old. we don't wake up and realize we are facing a moral crisis. a policy crisis, we will see more horrifying incidents like this one. expand a little on the moral and non-policy crisis. guest: right now i carry with me pictures of 30 young black children and brown children who have been murdered in the past -- in a year. this has never happened before but there are people who claim, institutional racism and legacy of slavery and jim crow. so all the emphasis is on finding a villain that is external to the community. this has never happened even

under slavery and jim crow. we did not have the self annihilation that we are witnessing today. so it is not a race problem, it is a moral and spiritual problem . because if you have been raised to believe that life has no meaning or content and you devalue your life, you will take yours or someone else's. the highest murder rate -- i mean the highest level of suicide in a silicon valley is six times the national average. two parent households, minimum income $190,000. so money, race is not the answer. if rich white kids are committing suicide in record numbers and what about the recent death of black celebrities who are taking their lives? that is a moral and spiritual crisis that can only be addressed at that level. and the groups the woodson center serves have demonstrated

that when you go in with moral authority and you present solutions that appeals to a person sense of their importance and value, they change. host: robert woodson our guest, the founder of the woodson center. we will hear first from ronald in virginia on the independent line. thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: good morning. america needs an independent party. what i would say to dr. woodson, a breath of fresh air. your question of that is disrespectful he thinks these programs work. you are very disrespectful. it let me get to the point. this recent shooting of the college basketball player killed the 22-year-old woman is an example that that person had all the privileges and the ability

to make money and be successful in america, but he still committed this crime, most likely, right? what should we do? it is not about guns even, it is about violence in america. it is about our politics. sir, you should run for senate. you should be a senator. god bless you. guest: let me say in defense of my colleague here, i did not find the question disrespectful at all. he was just asking me -- you know. this is an interesting quote about the source of it. i bet you'd no one will guess who made this, they said our children are living -- that are living in the best neighborhoods are on the verge of an ethical collapse. that morally weak people not only inhibit their own personal growth but contribute to the politics of decadence. a generation of people lacking the moral and physical stamina necessary to fight a protracted

civilization or crisis is a danger to itself, its neighbors, and future generation. that was reverend jesse jackson, a challenge -- it was in ebony magazine in 1978. so back then, leaders and it da silva rights movement understood --civil rights movement understood it was in moral and spiritual in nature and not social. we departed from that and became instead a race grievance industry. host: what year did you start the woodson center? guest: 1977. with the american enterprise institute for five years and fivers prior to that with the urban league. but i realized the people who were suffering the problem, these grassroots leaders, they

need an independent voice. the problem is not left or right will stop because if you go into any low income, high crumb neighborhood, you can't tell me which political party is in power. both parties have ignored this and continue to ignore the reality that the solutions are found internal that we must make investments not in professionals who parachute in their failed solutions, but we must invest in institutions that are indigenous to those communities. institutions that are trusted by the people living there. host: let's go to earl from washington state on the democrats line. caller: thank you. mr. woodson, when i graduated high school, four scholarship offers to play football at small black colleges and i had one scholarship for a full ride, tuition, books, the whole nine, but it was from the italian

mafia in my town. organized crime has had a profound -- it is the other government in this country. how can we address issues related to all the different factions? you have every kind of mafia it is except black mafia and it is country. how can we address that? guest: that is just part of those who are vile, those who are lawless. but i can tell you when you equip young men in these communities to help themselves -- let me give you a quick example. when i talked about philadelphia, they took 100 gang members that have been living in the city and had a citywide summit where they said they were going to bring all the warring gang leaders together. and they did and they could not

even find a venue to have that meeting. and finally, the quakers opened their churches. and on new year's day, they had this gang summit in 1974. as a result of that, the gang deaths went down from 48 to two and remained there for a long time. until 1983 when there was an outbreak of small groups of young blacks attacking shoppers, robbing them, knocking them down. it spread like wildfire. the press called him wolfpack attacks. four men of this city went to the local prison and recruited 125 inmates to a crime prevention task force. they sent the names they -- they gathered the names of 100 50 young men and said, bring them here to us. i was in that meeting in the present. as a result, we brought the young people into the prison.

at least these older inmates counseled them against these continued attacks, and the wolfpack attacks stopped overnight. so you have a moral force in these cities that are even more powerful than the mafia. the mafia could not stop that. i was blessed to follow this around and write a book about it where i chronicle the power of grassroots leaders to summon young people to responsibility if we just give them the tools to do so. we should look to the communities suffering a problem for the solution. host: the tear from sabrina in texas on the republican line. -- let's hear from sabrina in texas on the republican line. caller: i wanted to first of all say, mr. woodson, you are an absolute treasure to this country. i have followed you for a very

long time. i am also a great fan of thomas soul. i just really wish that people took the time to sit down and read your books. and really listen with their hearts. guest: thank you. caller: -- in our country at this time. that is about it. i just wanted to say that i send all of my love and prayers to people everywhere in america, but especially those people that have a mind of their own that they can speak. i bless you. thank you so much. guest: thank you so much. the message that is being sent to the young people, particularly the black young people, is that you are a victim. if you are robbing and killing one another, is not your fault.

if you're having babies and not being responsible, it is not your fault. that it is racist even discuss personal responsibility. dr. king said we all must reach down until the deep dark regions of our own soul and find our own emancipation proclamation. external circumstances never defines who we are. but what we are saying to young blacks is that you are not responsible for your life, that you live in a racist country who hates you, which means that perhaps they are -- they deserve to be despised. it is most important to understand that people are motivated to change and improve when they see examples of victories to be accomplished and not injuries to be avoided. can you imagine a football team sitting down watching reruns of the games they lost and then saying to the team, get out

there and let's win? this is the message we are sending to young urban blacks. here you are exempt from any personal responsibility. nothing is more lethal than giving people a good excuse for their own failures. host: let's hear from gloria on the democrats line in tennessee. go ahead. caller: good morning. i would like to say i have listened to your program for years. i am a mature over 70 great-grandmother. i think that everyone should realize there is only one race, it is the human race. hindu, muslim, christian, jew, there is one creator for all of you. in the eyes of our father, we are sister and brother. get on with your life. accept one another. i think people should not be judged by their color of their

skin. i truly believe in the words of the great martin luther king. it is the content of that character. i knew i had done my job right as a mother when my son at 16 was stabbed, had a punctured lung, but it was a black person who did it and what we were to court -- i told him, david, it is not the color of the scan, honey, it is the person. he grew up, is happily married to a woman who is half black, half jewish, and the most delightful person you could find. host: all right. robert woodson? guest: you are sending him the right message. unfortunately, there are too few people doing it. but we need to point to resilience. we need to be telling our young people about not just oppression in the past, but what has been the response to oppression. you are right to tell your son

that message. host: can tell us about the 7076 unites movement -- 1779 unites movement. we acknowledge racism exists and work toward diminishing it but we dissent from contemporary group about rhetoric about race, class, and american history that defames our national heritage, divides our people and instead instills helplessness among those who are already whole within themselves the grit and resilience to better their lot in life. guest: in 2019, nickel had a jones in "the new york times" -- nicole had a jones in "the new york times goes what road this essay individually gathered some of her colleagues together and published 1619, which talks about america should be -- the birthday should be defined when the first african slaves came -- actually, they were indentured servants.

all of them were eventually freed. but nevertheless, she said because america should be defined by slavery and because of its birth defect, which is slavery, that america is almost like a perpetual criminal organization. and therefore because it is founded on the slavery and the half of the founders of the country were slave owners, therefore the institutions that we establish are false and therefore thrive on racism and that all white people are victims to be punished and all blacks -- i mean all whites are villains and all blacks are victims. this is a sad state. when you say racism is in the dna of something, that means it cannot be changed. but yet she won a pulitzer

prize for condemning america for saying we are not worthy to exist as a country. what we wanted to do since the messengers were black, we felt the message to capture that should be black as was we brought together 23 black scholars and activists and we wanted to offer not an alternative debate but an inspirational and aspirational alternative narratives. so we said, yes, we have underreported and under taught about slavery. we agree with them on that. but what we also talked about is that america is defined by redemption. so we talked about in our essays that black america should not be defined by slavery but we should be defined by what our response to slavery was. we talked in our essays about

how the study of six plantations about the state of marriage. 75% of slave hammers had a man and woman raising children. -- slave families had a man and woman raising children. in 40 years that went up to 70%. host: what he think is still not fully addressed? guest: i don't know of any incident that is not fully addressed. it has been addressed. what we spend too much time looking for examples of failure as opposed to, you know, frederick douglass said something that again dealing with whether or not your external circumstance should define who you are. he said the worst time on the plantation was at christmas

because the slave masters gave blacks off for six days but the master wanted blacks to interpret freedom with dissipation and self-indulgence. so he gave them a lot of room and even had drinking contests between plantations. because he wanted them to define freedom as irresponsibility, so they would get sick and welcome going back into the fields. better to be a slave to man than a slave to rum. but he says some blacks became enticed and gave in, but others used that time to visit family members, others used that time to hire themselves out to work so they could earn their freedom. same circumstance. and so same circumstance and so that is what we are trying to encourage.

there are many blacks today, and we chronicle in our 1776 unite, we talked about when blacks were denied access to hotels, -- every major city had a hotel. we built over 100 colleges and universities. the bronze will section in 1929 in chicago that today is destroyed with violence but in 1929, the black community had 731 black businesses, 100 million in military assets. almost every major city, the greenwood section of tulsa, we had our own black wall street. because we understood self-sufficient. but all this history of achievement against the odds in the presence of oppression, it is important for people in america, not just black, for

others to realize -- we have 20 blacks born slaves who died millionaires. host: minneapolis, patricia, republican line. caller: thank you for being on, mr. woodson. i don't know if you caught it, but c-span had a woman on, a white house correspondent april ryan. i don't know how many times she said it, how many times she thought this was so important that people "looked like her." that was her message. totally turning upside down martin luther king's message about the content of the character and not the color of their skin. i was really ashamed of c-span for letting her go on and on with the race baiting and how important it is that people look like her. but you better think like her, too, because if you noticed

recently when donald's was put up for speaker, cori bush attacked him, calling him a -- supporting white supremacy. so they don't think that this black man has a right to choose his own political beliefs. i mean, how dehumanizing. our politicians, journalists, they are dividing america to the detriment of all of america but especially people of color. the other thing i would like to mention, planned parenthood. how many black babies have been murdered? they put the planned parenthood offices in minority neighborhoods. so what is the message? those black lives don't matter,

do they." host: patricia, we will hear from robert woodson. guest: you are right, they talk about black family life and as you say, anytime you generalize about a group of people to say i'm representing women, then you try to apply remedies, it always helps those at the top as opposed -- in other words, the whole #metoo movement started when a young black woman wanted to give voice to other black low income women who are being abused, so she started it and then lead progressives got a hold of the #metoo movement and when you generalize about women, what were the women teased -- remedies? people need to be on board of directors, women need to be higher up in corporate america,

jobs? and so up her income black and white women benefited from generalizing about women. but who suffered? black women in prison. black women in low income neighborhoods. geraldo rivera did a two hour special on sexual assault of women in prisons. every one of the perpetrators was black. every one of the victims was black, but it did not generate any response or discussion or outrage at all because it did not fit the racial narrative. unfortunately, as long as blacks are destroying other blacks, then it is all most sanctioned. and yet harvey weinstein, the women who were on the casting couch, they are the ones who are filing suits and everyone is

reporting on but not black women in prison. in fact, the most ridiculous example of how we have ascended, there was a video two summers ago a white woman with black lives matter t-shirt on beating a black woman who was pushing a toddler in a stroller because she was in a -- at a trump rally. she had to be restrained. yet again, there was no outrage about that because it did not fit the racial narrative. host: our guest is the author and editor of a number of books. robert woodson's latest, "red, white, black." a couple of more calls. we go to maryland. jeffrey is on the democrat line. caller: hello, dr. woodson. i have been a huge fan and supporter of your work.

i have been teaching for over 20 years, but the message you are preaching needs to get out to the masses of people. i am frustrated that it is not being done more. i am working on a project now to try to get information to the people who need it. so my question is, how can we disseminate the information to the very vulnerable population of inner-city blacks who desperately need to hear your message? i post a question to my dad yesterday i said, did the civil rights movement pick in existing's gab or cleanse a festering wound? this race baiting, this has got to the point where it is really bad. i love your work and i will take your answer -- i have more to share but i don't want to go over my time.

i love this show. host: thank you. guest: thank you so much. what has happened, unfortunately, over the past 50 years is that the civil rights movement has been taken over by i think white elites who use the suffering of blacks and only blacks were the crown of thorns of slavery and discrimination. at other groups are now coming in and climbing its moral authority and applying it to all other kinds of so-called marginalized groups. and in doing so, they are attacking three of the pillars of black success in the face of oppression. and that is the belief in country, believe in god, and believe in self-determination. in 1930's and 1940's, during the

years of depression when racism was enshrined in law, black america had the highest marriage rate of any other group. elderly people could walk safely without fear of being assaulted by their grandchildren. it was unheard of for a child to be shot. so we have to go back and learn from the past how we were able to accomplish these things when racism was the rule of law. what we're trying to do is learn from these, report on them, and doing everything we can to get this message around the gatekeepers. both democrats and republicans, people who love this country and believe in self-determination, we must come together and not allow people to separate us by race. but we must come together.

that is what the woodson center is trying to do, bring us together because the crisis is a moral and spiritual one that is destroying children up and down from class, from all over the country. we must come together. that is with the center is trying to do. host: quick call from david in louisiana. caller: good morning, mr. woodson. i am a little nervous. i did not call up here to be disrespectful, belligerent, or especially to get cut off. but you are talking about race and it is a real touchy situation in some arenas. i admire you so much, sir. just like all the colors you've had this morning, seem like they were all white, but that is just my racist problem. but they love you.

i would like to hear your opinion, sir, on west point and other institutions taking down robert e. lee and other come as you said, slaveowners. and statues of people in the confederacy and such. host: got your point there. we are little short on time. guest: i think it is such a waste. the danger of taking down these statues is that 25 years from now, people can deny that slavery existed because we don't have anything to remind us. in fact, some of these progressives took down the statue of frederick douglass, and don't be surprised if they're coming after the statue of martin luther king as they migrate with is anti-christian, anti-american theme using the civil rights movement as the moral bludgeon to destroy this country. but they are using it and we

must push back against it. host: robert woodson, more information for our viewers and listeners at the woodson center -- woodsoncenter dot work. thank you for being with us. after the break we will be joined by law professor president of joint center for political and economic studies spencer overton. later conversation with benjamin chavis who wants served as youth coordinator to dr. mark luther king, jr. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. it only at c-span do you get it

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this holiday, joined by spencer overton who is professor of law at george washington university, focusing particularly on voting rights and also the president of the joint center for political and economic studies. we understand you're stepping down from that role this spring, but what does your organization focus on? guest: in the united states, many ideas and policy debates are driven by research organizations which we call think tanks. some focus on conservative issues like the heritage foundation. some of them focus on progressive ideas like the center for american progress. some focus on issues that are of issues concerning particular people like women or rural communities. the joint center is america's black think tank. we focus on the unique challenges that face black communities. the organization was founded in 1970 just after the passage of

the voting rights act to help black activists move from protest to policy, from outsiders to becoming elected officials. in the past 53 years, we've helped set up the congressional black caucus, state legislatures, and also advance and left up research and ideas. recently, our work has focused on issues that are critical to the future of black communities like expanding broadband access, preventing harmful disinformation on tech platforms, expanding workforce training and facilitating economic mobility, and ensuring diversity among top political appointees in government. you can check us out at jointcenter dot work. host: quite a track record and agenda. on this mlk day, where we -- where would you say the country is, the advances we have made sense the death of mlk and the

areas from both economically and politically in the areas of equality? guest: we have made significant progress since the unfortunate assassination of dr. king. structural inequality still exist. this has been a problem that has been at play for 400 years. and so it is not just a scenario of black folks having less education or something like that. one study shows the typical household is black that is headed by a college graduate has less well than the typical white household headed by someone who does not even have a high school diploma. so you would assume if everything were equal, that more education would definitely equate in the higher returns in terms of income. certainly, our work is important, education is

important, mobility is important. but we also have to recognize we still have some work to do. host: we had dr. robert woodson on before you of the woodson center. he focused a lot on the sort of moral issues facing the black community. do you see that issue being more than just in the black community by the american public as a whole? guest: moral issues are certainly important, certainly important for all of us in terms of individuals. i think they're also important in terms of us as a nation. we talk about -- i am thinking about on this mlk day, the residents of the black rural south. these are rural counties with significant black populations in the south. just this last week, many of these areas, places like selma, alabama, were hit by tornadoes and suffered death and massive loss. now, this was tragic in part

because these communities are already so fragile. half of the black children in the black rural south live in poverty compared to 20% of children nationwide who have access to jobs, health care, broadband, and so i definitely think we have a moral obligation to ensure these communities are not just fixed from a tornado -- yeah, we want to support the red cross and help with the immediate tornado relief, but we also want to invest in infrastructure so these areas are a part of our future. they were essential in terms of you think about the unpaid labor that resulted in the united states being an economic superpower in terms of cotton being over 50% of our exports for the first six decades of the 1800s and insurance companies and textile mills and banks and

a whole host of other industries growing out of the ancestors of the folks who lived in places like the black rural south. i think we want to bring those communities in as well as other communities in places like west virginia were coal mines have closed down and places like the midwest, the industrial midwest were great in this country terms of innovation. we definitely need to be more deliberate in terms of how we are inclusive and include communities in kind of -- so there is an economic future. host: in response to the question, it sounds like a lot of similar issues facing many of our rural community's that face our inner-city communities. guest: i think that is right. one thing that is unique, for example, broadband in the black rural south, about 38% of black

folks don't have broadband. that is compared to about 22% of other rural residents and about 22% of black folks nationwide. so black folks in the black rural south are facing unique challenges that we have to kind of grapple with. yes, there is some commonalities and what is really important is that we understand some of our common challenges, but i think it is also important that we don't ignore the unique challenges that are faced by whether it is black community's in black rural south or tribal populations in their history and the contemporary life that many folks who are on reservations are living. and so, yes, we have some similarity. we also want to recognize the differences and, you know, ensure everyone has an opportunity. host: our lines are open for

your comments and questions. spencer, we had you on the program about a year ago and focused very much on capitol hill was pushing voting rights legislation. a year hence and now the 20 election has passed, -- 2022 election has passed, what is your view on capitol hill to pass voting rights legislation and the changes that were made to some voting laws in across the country? where are we? guest: bill, we are in a mixed place. certainly it was a mixed bag for election deniers in the last election. on the one hand, many prominent election deniers lost as in arizona but there are many, over half of the election deniers who actually won.

we still face a threat in terms of restrictive voting laws. one thing that we are really facing is our nation is becoming more diverse and with 70 people calling for racial justice, we have seen an increase in cultural anxiety. and this anxiety is showing disregard for the rule of law, intimidation, and even violence like we saw on january 6. it isn't just black-and-white but it is even between different communities of color. in l.a., for example, we saw latinx city council members using anti-black rhetoric during redistricting. our founders, unfortunately, did not even conceive, many of them did not conceive of people of color participating in our politics. and so many of our institutions were never designed to facilitate multiracial democracy .

in fact, they exacerbated our challenges. you talked about last year in the u.s. senate, which is not representative of the diversity of our nation's population, wyoming, which is not very diverse has left 2% of the population of very diverse population but representation in the u.s. senate were we saw voting rights legislation blocked up here. states have used gerrymandering in an unprecedented way for voting restrictions to dilute the voting strength of people. and the supreme court is right now weakening the voting rights act, and we will see what they do with her current case in 2023. so we are at a crossroads. we have to figure out ways to build institutions that allow us to develop cross racial coalitions and to respect the differences of folks but also respect -- recognize our commonalities and come together

to solve emerging problems. host: let's get to calls for spencer overton. we will first go to the democrats line. caller: one thing i would like to say with the speech with dr. martin luther king, the "i had a dream," let me tell you something, that was just a dream with no reality attached to it at all. the naacp was a great foundation. i spit any of my years i spent many years. they helped us out. all types of things during that time. now have all these think tanks trying to tell us how to think and then they're going to washington to tell them how to vote. now, al sharpton -- i love the fellow, but if a black man got killed and it made national tv,

i guarantee you rev. al sharpton we be there ready to sue for money. i graduated in 1976. this is where everything started. the day when we had disco, black, whites, puerto ricans. we all used to dance together. had no problem whatsoever. until we got ronald reagan. when ronald reagan, this particular time, ronald reagan was the governor of california. when he was running for president, he opened his campaign in mississippi when people got killed. the next thing, get rid of j edgar hoover's name on the fbi building. host: several things there, robert. guest: we focus on data and

research. we think it is important to inform public policy in making good decisions. i know both reverend sharpton and i know ben crump and both of them have put other things on hold in their lives, including personal gain, to give voice to the voiceless and to show up when folks are at times -- in times of crisis. it is not just been for african-americans, but for various other folks. no additional comment on that, but just wanted to be on the record there. host: let's hear from david in new jersey, republican line. caller: hi. i have two questions. one is, i wanted to know what is your organization doing with regard to the crisis in terms of black host: let's hear from david in

inglewood, new jersey. republican line. caller: yes, i want to know what your organization is doing with regard to the prices in terms of black kids reading levels. almost across the board in this country, black kid reading levels are way below grade level. no one ever talks about this situation. all this emphasis on this book will not be in this library and this is being banned here and all the other nonsense. but even they are, kids are not on grade level in terms of reading. my second question has to do with all the black politicians that have been in power but we do not see the mo -- economic impact of this for years.

in terms of the economy, we have to stop thinking of ourselves as victims and start thinking of ourselves as investors. in terms of the economy -- you talked about the college black graduates compared to white that have only been through high school, but yet, he did not look through the majors of the students. i'm not saying there is no reason, because there is discrimination, but at the same time ways need -- we need to look at our reading and math levels. and then, we would have to look at urban school systems. i grew up in chicago. the democrats have controlled chicago for 100 years. host: ok you have a couple

questions there. spencer overton. guest: sure i believe that economic credibility issues are important. we focus on the work in america. we found 27 percent of black workers are in high risk automation jobs. this is office clerks, and many black workers are in jobs like home health care. our plan is to create career pathways so people in the low-wage jobs can get her certificate that helps them get a higher paying job and a later associate degree or bachelors degree. so someone may move from hotel -- home health care to being a medical assistant, a technician, and then a nurse. we do face challenges the gap between white and black graduation rates in community colleges is more than increasing, more than doubled. 11 percentage points in 2023.

-- 2020. only about -- this increases racial disparities as well. most evaluations of workforce training programs do not track outcomes by race. we do not know if the programs are working well for black workers. we've got to fix these and other problems. i agree that we should focus on ensuring economic mobility for all. and let me just say, this benefits not just lack full's, or latin american folks, but everyone. that could translate into an additional 2.7 trillion dollars per year in gdp in the u.s.. that is a 13% boost in our gdp which would mean our customers

for businesses, more taxpayers to contribute to our elective elevations -- obligations. and ensuring our nation leads the world and the new economy. our history, there has been a use of low cost black and brown labor or no cost in the case of black full's. --folks. but the future cannot be based on that it has to be based on cultivating the talent of all americans. host: we will hear from keith on the democrats line from florida. go ahead. caller: you are a classmate of mine in 1989 good to see you. guest: hey it is good to see you. caller: i want to speak with you on gerrymandering. it is something i am concerned about because i believe it dilutes and cancels out -- that it dilutes black political

participation in a number of ways. and it also has a, kind of, military defect on those who may want to run. guest: right. caller: and i wanted to get your ideas of what you think of more challenge -- gerrymandering in the courts and how strong republican led legislations are across the country as they are focusing on that to get more political power. guest: thank you for calling in. i will take this moment to shout out to hampton university our home by the sea area we have a great new president and i encourage people to check out the website it hampton university. gerrymandering has been with us for a while, but it has been taken to a new level recently with technology and the partisan interest of incumbents.

and part of the problem is, rather than voters selecting the politicians, we've got politicians selecting the voters. i don't know that there is a lot of hope right now in terms of the current supreme court. a couple of years ago, they made a decision that said that, you know, that they cannot get involved in terms of partisan redistricting. it is not a judicial function here so they cannot stop these partisan gerrymandering's. right now, they are here again case from alabama about section two of the voting rights act. it is a possibility that just as they scaled back the voting rights act in 2013 in shelby county versus holder that was section four and five, they could also scale back section two so that now, in this case,

so that we have fewer elected officials of color in legislative bodies. there are a variety of race neutral alternatives that people are starting to think about and talk about. rank-choice voting, multimember districts, a variety of different solutions to this where there is less government intervention and more voters affiliating with who would want to affiliate with. one thing that's interesting about this topic is that it is almost a very libertarian issue in the sense that you do not want government manipulating things. you want actual voters to be able to affiliate with each other. host: what would you say to our viewers who tweets this he says it would be nice if we stop with

this spin and lies on voter suppression. in states like georgia, and others, they have 3-4 weeks of early voting, mail-in ballots, named a voting. when you have record turnout set is not suppression. it caused the mlb to pool the all-star game. talking about georgia. guest: i think it is all relative we do not know what the turnout would have been absent those laws. but we do know black turnout was low in places like louisiana and other places where there were -- there were restrictions. there was a very contested senate race in georgia and there was a lot of money that was invested which could contribute to higher turnout again. this is a common issue that libertarians should be concerned about in terms of excessive regulation by government to prevent people from exercising their freedom to vote. in these cases, often they are

justified by the concern about fraud. but, there is a lack of evidence of massive voter fraud that would change election outcomes here. so, just as folks what the liberty to carry guns and folks what the liberty to speak, there is a sense to find satisfaction with government through the vote. and voter restrictions unfortunately prevent fat. but that is an issue we have got -- prevent that. but that is an issue we have got to address and the fact that our nation is changing -- there is an entrenchment piece in terms of taking america back as a backward as opposed to recognizing that we want everybody who is a legitimate participant to participate and engage in terms of our democracy. host: we go to the independent

line next and hear from barbara in new york city. caller: good morning. what is the joint senators thoughts on tax exemption preparations? guest: thank you for your question. we have really focused on places like place based solutions like investing in the black roll staff. an expanding broadband. there are certainly things we focus on like expanded ei tc or income tax credit so that low-wage working people are not taxed in the property -- taxed into property and trying to expand that. many of our solutions have been placed based. or maybe disproportionately recognizing some of the challenges that black folks have

in front of them. we had not taken a formal position in terms of tax exemption is a form of reparations. host: next up is atlanta maria is on the democrat line they are. caller: good morning both of you and all c-span family. my concern is with the gun laws -- i know that laws can change and i can see the -- i have seen them change over decades. why is it that there is a stronger force when they don't like to touch it. the gun laws in america are terrible area you find that in no other country. why is there not a strong force of trying to get it change? i will take america's theorist when they look at japan, [indiscernible]

killing. just because their forefathers wrote it the rules could not be changed. it is ridiculous of the gun laws. politicians act like they do not want to talk about it. i will lose my vote area it is ridiculous with the gun laws. host: ok, maria, spencer overton is that something that the center has looked into? and taken a position on? guest: we actually have focused on gun laws we have a report from 2015 with this issue. i think it is a complex topic. certainly there is value to a reasonable restriction recognizing that folks have gone hunting with parents and there is a -- mary is something that is deep there. there are some people that feel self protection is an important value. but there are also a lot of folks who are dying as a result

of easy access to guns in the u.s. especially compared to other nations. one data point is that many of the gun homicides and victims are black and like male, a disproportionately large amount like over half. but the most gun deaths are white folks. that is a result of the disproportionately large percentage of folks who suicide or victims of suicide, basically, unfortunately. they have a handgun and they think they will be safer as a result of images they may have seen on the news area and they get depressed or something like that and they unfortunately are victims of suicide. it is a really unique complex issue where people think when they are making themselves more safe, and actually they are

making themselves more dangerous. they are submitting themselves to danger as a result of bringing a gun in the home at times. it is a complex issue and both sides are very well organized and vista debate will go on for a while i suspect. host: we hill -- hear from shirl next in new york, republican caller. caller: i'm a 58-year-old black woman i love my country. my husband and i have been able to be successful namely because we do not subscribe to victim mentality that the like ministers and democratic party constantly put forth. my son goes to ivy league schools, we know the blacks who do well there are all from nigeria because they do not take part in this victim mentality. look at yourself, how did you become successful? i am sure you work hard in school. you took advantage of opportunities area so when you constantly tell people there is so much racism and you cannot a

cat i agree with the foundation, -- you cannot -- i agree with the foundation. and there was a lot of money by being a -- i disagree with everything you're saying. guest: i think that is great it is america it is what we are about. there are other things that people can do to make a lot more money than he currently does. there is certainly a moral can earn it -- component to what he does. and let me say that i agree that working hard is important. individual initiative, discipline is incredibly. those things are not divorced from structural issues. even laws that do not mention race, and bacon seem right -- and they can seem right, they

expand racial enforcement one example is the g.i. bill created the middle class which is a great bill. but it expanded racial disparities. african-americans could not take advantage of the mortgage benefits or the tuition benefits because they were not allowed in several schools because of the north and the south. we do not want to repeat the g.i. bill bypassing laws that we think -- bypassing -- by passing laws that we think are involving everyone but they leave some communities out. we have to think about policy how we think about policy is a collective exercise and that is something that is related to, but distinct from our personal habits.

great initiative, hard work, being ethical and moral those are important characteristics. i think that we agree on that. i agree with you on that. host: our guests the professor of law in washington university in d.c. and the outgoing resident for joint center political and economic studies spencer overton. thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for having me. host: still ahead on washington journal on the mlk holiday we will be joined by no labels benjamin chavis discusses his -- will talk about dr. king's legacy and efforts to dissolve the political divide in the u.s.. . >> back in the period from june

through november of 1962 paul gregory new lee and marina also will -- oswald where than anybody else. two hours after the kennedy assassination mr. gregory a student at the university of oklahoma was watching television and saw the members of a dallas police escorting a suspect in the dallas headquarters. paul gregory set out loud i know that man. meaning lee harvey oswald. 60 years later he is written for the first time his account of his friendship with lee oswald and his wife marina. >> author paul gregory on this episode of notes plus it is available on the c-span app or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view

of what is happening in washington. keep up with floor proceedings, hearings and you'd -- house congress, the courts, and campaigns from world politics all at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span's tv networks and c-span radio plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available in the apple store and google play. download it free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ ♪ announcer: there are a lot of places to get political information. but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here, or here, or here, or anywhere that matters, america is watching on

c-span. powered by cable. ♪ >> washington journal continues. >> we are doing next by dr. benjamin chavis who is the cochair of the group no labels. and he early in his career watched his career with dark -- dr. mu -- dr. martin luther king. welcome to the washington journal. guest: thank you good morning and happy mlk day to you. host: tell us about the focus of your organization. guest: thank you. no labels has been around washington for about 12 years. we believe that democrats republicans and independents all work together. and one thing that capitalizes in washington today is the

political divide. people think they can get something done by being on the extreme far right or extreme on the far left. actually, nothing gets done. one of the things i learned from dr. martin luther king jr. was his effort to bring diverse people who sometimes did not agree that he brought them together so he could make progress. that is why i joined no labels as national co-chair with former senators joseph lieberman and the three of us serve as the cochairs of no labels . host: do you think the political divide in the country has made that racial divide worse in the last few years? guest: absolutely. i think it feeds the divides. there are so many divides in our nations -- nation bill. but one of the things that dr. martin luther king jr. preached was the love for our community.

where we start having love and mutual respect for one another. host: i mentioned you began your career in 1960 theory as dr. kings statewide youth coordinator for the leadership conference. how old were you when you started that position? guest: in 1963 i was 14 and i was learning how to drive. i was driving a car at 14. and 1963 is the year that dr. king gave his famous i gave a dream speech in august of 1963. the important thing about what we learn from the bill, when your later in 1964 we got the civil rights act passed. but it only passed congress because of bipartisanship. it was recovered because republicans and democrats were working together. that is what we want to see in 2023 and 2020 four we want to see not all people working together in washington but all

the state legislatures that defined this racial divide. and as we celebrate dr. martin luther king jr. birthday today. across the country the federal holiday. let us not only celebrate the memory of the past but let's apply the lessons from the past. justice works. all of these things that polarize people. the racism does not work, antisemitism does not work. hatred does not work. what works is when all americans are working together. host: our lines are open for your questions and comments for dr. benjamin chavis. democrats (202) 748-8000 , republicans (202) 748-8001 , independents (202) 748-8002 host: it will mark 60 years for

the i have a dream speech where do you think the statement for the have a dream speech is in america today? guest: we have made great progress is america but if dr. king could speak, and address his speech from 60 years ago, he would say we are still not there yet. have we made progress in 60 years? yes. but have we made enough progress? no. we need to keep writing for racial justice, environmental justice, climate justice. we need to work on bipartisanship. that is why i am so excited about no labels and the caucus in congress. we have bills because of bipartisanship. we got the chair because of bipartisanship. i believe that we will do something with the debt limit coming up that we have debate. hopefully will would be able to solve that in a bipartisan way.

we would have to fix social security and medicare. we have to do that in a bipartisan way. i am hopeful, but to answer your question, have we made progress? yes. but have we overcome that? no. we have everybody in america truly acting without discrimination of race and religion, socioeconomic in some sense we have a ways to go. host: some of your optimism is reflected in a recent piece of yours at the hill.com. what dr. king can teach us today about healing the riffs in america -- rifts in america. what you think he wrote about and talked about that helped heal those rifts? guest: i think we have to learn from history, not replete -- pete history. we have to learn about what happened in the civil war and the post-reconstruction days, learn from jim crow, the civil

rights movement, and we have to learn from most recently look at what happened on january 6 for the capital was stormed by the people for the first time ever. the federal flag was waived inside of the united states -- and i think what dr. king would say and why i am optimistic this morning is that because we had made great progress we should push for further progress. we should not relax, relent, retreat, but move forward together. host: let's go to our callers and we hear from joyce in portland, oregon. caller: hello? host: you are on the air, go ahead. caller: my question was that mlk day is a wonderful day to have, but every time we do this, you have all these people

quoting from dr. martin luther king i have a dream. and there are many callers coming in and they always say it is not the color of the skin, but the content of the character. that really bothers me because i do not think they truly believe that. this man was trying to bring about code and change -- hope and change to this country. to make sure that everybody was included. all of us are immigrants and all of us need to work together. he was putting his life on the lines of that all of us and have the right to vote. that all of us would have the respect and care for each other. just a through these words out just because it is your birthday, which was on the 15th but they put it on the 16th, but just to do this is an insult to this man and what he stood for.

he wanted to use -- unite the whole country. he wanted all of us to have a better life and a better situation. he fought for everyone. it was not just for black people, but he fought for everybody. host: all right joyce,. . guest: thank you for calling in dr. king didn't believe in justice and inclusiveness. he did not believe in the critical environment going on that is why i am part of no labels that is bipartisan. but i also am saying it is ok for people to quote him, but we have to do more than quote him. we have to strive to improve quality of life for all of god's people without respect to race or skin color or socioeconomic circumstance. and i think that we made progress [indiscernible]

but we still have a long ways to go. what i am optimistic about is how young people today, our intergenerational movement, the majority of americans want to see a better inclusive democracy. i just want to -- i think that people from far extremes wind up . we need to let dr. kings values of respect and loving one another rather than hating each other to be guides that guides our action, public policy, ways that we improve quality of life for all people, not only in america, but throughout the world. you live in an interdependent and intergenerational and multicultural -- world and we have to have respect for

everyone. host: next up is jeff from california. jeff on the democrat line. caller: hi, yes. thank you for taking michael. i think that dr. martin luther king he really had a beautiful dream. to bring all americans together. and we had civil rights leaders who were helping him on that journey. that includes all -- a lot of white america that joined in in that beautiful dream. we had victories in the civil rights movement. but we also have -- we are still against civil-rights. my question is, that, how can we

come together if people that storm the capital just do not want people to have equal rights and equal votes? guest: thank you very much. well, the people who storm the capital do not represent the majority of americans. they represent the extreme. that is why i am working well -- working now with no labels to carry on dr. king's dream in 2023 and 2024. there is a lot that arises us across the country and what happened on january 6, it is terrible, but it is symptomatic of a deeper problem. we have to raise the racial divide. we have to bridge the economic divide. -- we have to erase the racial divide. we have to ridge the economic

divide. we have to erase the things that make us hate one another. and another thing i think we have learned over the last 60 years since dr. king made his famous i have a dream speech is that the dream has to be worked on. the dream has to be fulfilled, not just repeated in terms of how to articulate what dr. king said, but how we live what dr. king forecast. how we live, the vision of people coming together. that is why i cited in the article i wrote for the hill is that we got bipartisanship. we got the voting rights act of 1965 because of bipartisanship. and we got the fair housing act of 1968 because of bipartisanship. we just passed the infrastructure bill because of bipartisanship. and the question now facing new congress, divided congress, democrats, publicans, and independents will have to work

together to make more progress. host: do you think the passing of the civil rights bill, the voting rights act, do you think the partisanship was as fierce back then as it is today? guest: i think -- no, i think the partisanship was more civil. today, we lack stability. we lack true respect. and that is what we want to restore it. i believe that working with senator lieberman and governor hogan and many others fantastic executive director of no labels nancy jacobson. i think all of us working together can help provide incentives for members of congress to work together. as well as state legislatures working together. keep in mind, america is not just in washington it is also at state legislatures. we all have to work together to move the quality of life for everyone and leave no one out.

leave no one behind. but how to all of us together. and so -- how to uplift all of us together. and so i am an optimist because i believe dr. king junior dream is still alive. i believe that most people want to see our nation and world a better place for all. host: let's hear from dee calling from florida. republican line. caller: yes, good morning. i am afraid you may not like what i have to say here about martin luther king. i am 87 about to be 88 years old. i lived in those times and i remember way back win-win martin luther king was there. we were all -- way back when, when martin luther king was there. and we were behind him. we supported him.

we worked around black people and they worked with us in pennsylvania. and we had all the connection with the black people and we were all friends. one black couple, and my son was born later in the year and they called him lucky boy because he had both black and white friends that would play with him. but martin luther king made a mistake when he went out there and he had a speech with all the black sinkers. even today they are still out there today on c-span you guys have been back in the oldies. all the black singers that come on. we white girls and teenagers we go to dance and these guys -- the only thing that was holding the black. host: i'm sorry we drop the line. we go onto carrot in wellington, florida. go ahead. on the independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning.

i am jamaican. i have lived in the states for about 13 years. and my wife and i have made progress. we live in a community where there are a lot of white americans around. and what i am finding is that we live in such a divided society that lots of white people do not relate to the issues that black people are speaking about. right? they do not understand these issues. so, when we talk about the challenges that black people are facing, a lot of white people, it is not that they necessarily hate black people, it is that they just do not understand. earlier we had a speaker on the program and he was saying that most of the problems related to the black family and black people has to do with the families.

and yes it is an important issue we need to make sure kids go to school and so on, but they will not acknowledge that racism was not created by black people. white people created this system of race to divide [indiscernible] so that they remain in control. and to ignore the fact that this is been in place for 100 -- hundreds of years. white people are in a position where black people acquired power. and they acquired property, even as that happened throughout history, do you honestly believe it has nothing to do with the realities we are facing today? have two education systems and we will never have an education system in america that addresses the issues of all americans if we are not offering poor people, black people who live in many of the dead zones or communities where they do not have access to quality education, if we do not exist in a place where these

people have an opportunity to grow and develop, [indiscernible] in europe and the ghettos they lived in them explain to you how costly it was for them to get out of those ghettos. host: thank you. we will go to our guest. guest: thank you very much. both of our calls were from florida. i am sorry the call dropped because i really wanted to address what she was talking about area but this guy from jamaica i love his accident. let me just say -- his ac cent. we just say, listen, we can point incurs or we can try to blame, but the truth of the matter is we are all part of one human family. if dr. king were alive today, in 2023, he would not just repeat his i am a dream speech. he would apply the speech to the racial divide, and political

divide, the opportunity divide, that his current in our nation -- that is current in our nation. one of the reasons why racial strife exists and racism exists is out of ignorance. we need a better education system not just for black people, white people, not just for latinos, not just immigrants, nativeborn's, we need a better education system for all will. we need to become -- all people. we need to become more aware. it is not about having racial tolerance it is about embracing one another. dr. crane -- dr. king believed in a lab community. we do not hate each other, stereotype one another, or sawed down to you because you look different, speak different, dress different, no we celebrate. we have so much in common. we have more in common than what

divides us. and that is what we need to be talking about with martin luther king. what brings us together. not just what divides us, but what brings us together. to me, what i do now [indiscernible] what i do working everyday of my life, i have learned a lot over the last 60 years since 1963. since the i have a dream to apply what dr. king said to our reality and try to change our reality. i am not pessimistic. i do believe that we have made agresta. and i believe we will make our progress to the extent -- we have made progress. and i believe we will make our progress. host: we have another calling -- from washington dc. democrat line. good morning were on air. caller: i wanted to speak to you about the plight of young black men because of the america

that we need to improve upon. i'm an educator in washington dc. and i am standing by the fact that we are not doing enough to seek -- steer these young minds to a great place. what they tell me about gun and violence in southeast d.c. is that at 4:00 in the morning someone in the community and the objects will find a bag of guns and someone who finds them will sell them so what we call the hood. and it creates an era of violence that would not exist otherwise. the secrets need to be told. we need to have programs for young blacks gain skills in technology and these do not exist right now. we are losing a generation of not only black young man but white as well. please speak on that. host: thank you and the fact you continue to be an educator, do

not give on our young people. i know that you are not. as you raise the question, fall -- first of all, how so many guns in southeast d.c. and south chicago, the hood in houston, central los angeles, i am speaking to you today from l.a. here in santa monica. but i want to say something that the devastation of the self-destruction that goes on in some of our communities, particularly poor communities, that is something we have to work to turn around. i think our young people today are among the most talented and most gifted and most aspirational generation we have been blessed with. however, they need encouragement. they need to be embraced. and a lot of times we just need more law enforcement in these

communities. it is not a law enforcement issue. we need to work on restoring mutual respect. love, dr. king talked about a beloved community, he was not talking about everyone being happy-go-lucky, no, it was about everyone having not just compassion, but having ways and means we help people improve themselves. our young people in the projects, in the to get a great education, get a good situation where they can generate income legally, not illegally. and they need some hope some upward push. over my years of working, since i believe the civil rights movement is needed today more than we needed it in 1963 and 2023. we need to work together. i'm looking forward to doing it. i'm going back to washington dc to the southeast where they have a lot of nonviolent and a lot of

self-destruction. we need to stop it. but we need to speak about it in a way that does not put our community down. speak about it in a way that love's us -- that uplifts us, that encourages to strive to be our brother and see -- sister's keepers. i am optimistic because dr. king taught us a long time ago that we cannot afford to throw our hands up and say that situations happen. every situation can change but we have to work together to change it. and i believe that we -- everything we are facing with the new congress, i think working together we can make more change for the better for all of gods people in this nation and around the world. host: bench avis -- benjamin chavis got his degree at union theological seminary in new york city. he was not particularly martin

luther king's example of entering the ministry of a political bend that caused you to follow the career you did. guest: yes. my undergraduate was chemistry and i went back to school because of the influent that dr. king had all my life. it was the greatest decision to answer god's call to ministry. in a choose my alma mater. and the religious community we were, but i also want to mention because i think christians, jews, muslims, those of other faith we all need to work together. the beloved community is inclusive of all. there are a lot of things going on in america that we need to work on. but we need to work on them together. if black people only work on black people issues, if white people only work on white people issues, if latinos only work on latino issues, we will not make progress. we need to work together on all

these issues. why? because there is only one important family. because i believe in the oneness of a family. host: in new york, on the republican line. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: what is disappointing to me is that people forget when dr. king spoke against racism, he was speaking against racism of any kind to be tolerated. and president obama, while even though [indiscernible] he exemplified this in an incident that happened in hampton virginia college, i think at the time it was run by winston harvey, the incident was that a young woman have won the beauty contest for the college, but she was not black, she was italian.

and evidently, somehow, the resident got wind of this and he was so moved by it that he came to hampton college and gave the commencement address to prove that racism of any kind is not to be tolerated. and i just set president obama -- i'm sorry. guest: you're right it is hampton user diversity -- university. and the incident that you cited exactly is right. listen, president obama, you know president clinton, president bush, you know, president carter, even president reagan during the 1980's, eventually, when he first got the martin luther king bill through our congress through holiday this is a bipartisan effort. we had to work together.

when you say you are opposed to racism have to be opposed to all racism. if you are opposed to antisemitism you have to be opposed to all of it. you cannot be selective. equality is equality. justice is justice. fairness is fairness. love is love. there is no room in love for hatred. so, one of the things that i hope we spend this federal holiday, we figure out ways how to help one another and work together. how to exhibit in our lives going forward without the increase of about 60 years ago. about the american dream a dream where everybody would be treated fairly and nobody would be discriminated against because of skin color, religion, sexual orientation, we have so many ways now that people can be discriminated against. you need to work to eliminate all forms of discrimination and hatred. i am optimistic

because i believe in a problem solver congress and bipartisanship as a greater chance today than it ever has before. host: we have paul, from maryland. go ahead. caller: yes, i am following on your [indiscernible] i was born [indiscernible] and i live 44 years of my life in washington dc [indiscernible] i would like to make a quick analogy between [indiscernible] and dr. king. in the sense that many centuries between the two. cyrus abolished a blurry -- slavery [indiscernible]

host: you know we will let you go there you are breaking up a little bit it is hard to hear on the cell signal. we apologize about that we will go to anderson in indiana commenting on the democrat line . caller: hi, to both of you. i want to large -- lodge a disagreement on mr. chavis when he said the political divide is driven on racism. and i think racism drives the political divide. because only five members of the republican earlier black. cody 3% of the congress is white -- 33% of the congress is white. 33% represents most of americans demographic. the gerrymandering that is done is carved out -- carving out

rich, white districts so that republicans can be reelected. also, we have seen on tv the long line of college students and blacks having to wait to vote. where republican areas have messed with the bowling and -- the polling and the drop-offs and all kinds of things to respect -- restrict voting. and we have the reluctance of the laws to prosecute, to lift up immunity on police officers because of the violent against blacks. forbade officers. republicans will not vote against that, for that unity to be lifted. in addition, maxi is him which

is on the rise, is driven by racism, so i am kind of in opposition to your first statement about political positions. host: all right, benjamin chavis let's give a response. guest: thank you i want to thank the caller. but i think that there is a misunderstanding. i did not say that the political divide is the only contributor to racism in america, if anything, it is the opposite. i think we need to be careful of how we cast views where we say one group is right and one is all wrong. i think that is the problem with the absence of bipartisanship. we will not fix americans problems only with democrats, we will not fix america's problems only on republicans act. or independents acting on the law. or blacks acting alone, whites

acting along, asian americans acting along, this divide is what holds us back. we need to bridge this. i think if you listen to what reverend dr. martin luther king said not only 60 years ago, but listen how his words apply to 22 a3. -- two 2023. o 2023. i think we can transcend some of the racial divides and work together. and in the cases cited, we got the voting rights bill, fair housing act, recent infrastructure bill, all because of bipartisanship. that is what i am calling for. for more bipartisanship. more working together. democrats should not demonize republicans, and republicans should not demonize democrats.

and we should not leave independents out, we all need to work together that is what dr. martin luther junior would say today. host: we have caroling -- carolyn calling from georgia, republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning i want to say something about dr. king he was a learned person he was able to think and reason very well. he leaved in doing things very well. and one of his speeches he said, if you're going to be a street sweeper do it so well that -- until you will be recognized. and also, i believe that it is all about reasoning and thinking that is the reason we cannot get along. and i think that is the divide. the divide is among thinking and reasoning. i hear jose i believe -- i hear people say, i believe, i think, and that is a percentage of

right. but you never say i read this, i studied this, and came up with this inclusion. so i think the divide right now is more with thinking and reasoning. it ought to be more emphasized in schools. i do not think it is emphasized enough. it is hard for a person to get along when they do not think alike, some people, you know, some people will be quiet but the thinking and reasoning need to be together. but we need good social skills so people can think and reason and discuss things. i think that would help. but there is no need to do it if they cannot think and reason well. host: all right thank you, your broader point may be the education system in this country. tell us about your thoughts in terms of the racial inequities in the public schools in particular in this country. guest: we need a strong public school system. education is one

of the keys to moving our country forward. i think every child, student, and adults. the color -- caller mentioned thinking and trying to demonize a person. you may disagree with. and i am glad we live in a country where we can disagree without disagreeing with each other and hating each other. democracy means we do not have to agree on everything but there are some things we should agree on improving the quality of life, having a great education system for everyone, so people can learn how to participate in economic system fairly and equitably. all of these things we can work on. but we have to have the intentionality area what i am calling for is -- intentionality. what i am calling for is more

partisanship. more working together across the lines that have divided us area i am calling us to win were victories for all -- more victories for god's people. that is why i'm here to celebrate dr. martin luther king jr. birthday as a holiday as a time for us to reflect and apply earnings. i think we should learn from the past. i keep saying that. if you learn anything over the last 60 years, in the points where we work together where republicans, democrats, independents work together we will be able to make great progress. host: granola is on the independent line for -- cornell at his on the independent line from washington. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call and letting me share my

thoughts on the subject. i am so grateful for mlk because he made a lot of contributions to this nation. many of it is not being honored. so we are honoring a man that has done so many great things. one of the things was the unification of our nation. and it so important that we stay unified. because the word of god tells as i am a pastor, the word of god talks about the divide and divided we fall united we stand. 12 years as a united states army medic. i think it is important that we stay united and we unified because that will be the death of the nation. we will die from the inside, not from the outside. we talk about the enemies of china and russia we are our own worst in emmys because we cannot come together. -- one of our own -- one of our worst enemies because we cannot

come together. one areas the native american indians would -- which i am a descendant. i want to say divided, we have to come together. i am so grateful for the no labels concept. i am grateful that we do not put stick this as stigmas and labels on people. i had a car crash in 2019 and when i -- one of his speeches said he had been to the mountaintop and he said where he been -- we had all been unified together black, china, indian. we were all unified. host: we will let you go we will hear from dr. chavis. guest: thank you. i first want to thank her for her service to the nation. my father was in world war i and i have a special place in my heart for people who had third

-- served america. but to what she was saying the celebration of dr. martin luther king jr. is for all, not just some people. i think he would be pleased that we have made congress since he articulated the i have a dream speech. but he would also be encouraging us to do more today. not to be satisfied with where we are and certainly to not let us start falling backwards. we need to go forward area and i think that our educational system needs to be improved. we need to have more opportunity for people to get themselves out of poverty. we need to work together to create some of the political divide in washington in the state capitals. host: thank you for being with us this morning. guest: god bless and happy martin luther king jr. day to all. host: that will do it for a

program this morning and we are back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern and we hope you are, too. enjoy this holiday and we will see you tomorrow. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, we are funded by the television companies and more including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 committee centers to create wi-fi enabled location so children from disadvantaged families can get the help they

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