no i don't believe i don't i know that you give me strength keep on given me strength keep on giving me joy thank you for keeping me thank you for loving me. ♪ ♪ >> >> c-span is your unfiltered

view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including charter cox. cox supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. r overton who is professor of law at george washington university, focusing particularly on voting rights and also the president of the joint center for political and economic studies. we understand you're stepping down from that role this spring, but what does your organization focus on? guest: in the united states, many ideas and policy debates are driven by research organizations which we call think tanks. some focus on conservative issues like the heritage foundation. some of them focus on

progressive ideas like the center for american progress. some focus on issues that are of issues concerning particular people like women or rural communities. the joint center is america's black think tank. we focus on the unique challenges that face black communities. the organization was founded in 1970 just after the passage of the voting rights act to help black activists move from protest to policy, from outsiders to becoming elected officials. in the past 53 years, we've helped set up the congressional black caucus, state legislatures, and also advance and left up research and ideas. recently, our work has focused on issues that are critical to the future of black communities like expanding broadband access, preventing harmful disinformation on tech platforms, expanding workforce training and facilitating economic mobility, and ensuring

diversity among top political appointees in government. you can check us out at jointcenter dot work. host: quite a track record and agenda. on this mlk day, where we -- where would you say the country is, the advances we have made sense the death of mlk and the areas from both economically and politically in the areas of equality? guest: we have made significant progress since the unfortunate assassination of dr. king. structural inequality still exist. this has been a problem that has been at play for 400 years. and so it is not just a scenario of black folks having less education or something like that. one study shows the typical household is black that is headed by a college graduate has less well than the typical white

household headed by someone who does not even have a high school diploma. so you would assume if everything were equal, that more education would definitely equate in the higher returns in terms of income. certainly, our work is important, education is important, mobility is important. but we also have to recognize we still have some work to do. host: we had dr. robert woodson on before you of the woodson center. he focused a lot on the sort of moral issues facing the black community. do you see that issue being more than just in the black community by the american public as a whole? guest: moral issues are certainly important, certainly important for all of us in terms of individuals. i think they're also important in terms of us as a nation. we talk about -- i am thinking

about on this mlk day, the residents of the black rural south. these are rural counties with significant black populations in the south. just this last week, many of these areas, places like selma, alabama, were hit by tornadoes and suffered death and massive loss. now, this was tragic in part because these communities are already so fragile. half of the black children in the black rural south live in poverty compared to 20% of children nationwide who have access to jobs, health care, broadband, and so i definitely think we have a moral obligation to ensure these communities are not just fixed from a tornado -- yeah, we want to support the red cross and help with the immediate tornado relief, but we also want to invest in infrastructure so these areas are a part of our future.

they were essential in terms of you think about the unpaid labor that resulted in the united states being an economic superpower in terms of cotton being over 50% of our exports for the first six decades of the 1800s and insurance companies and textile mills and banks and a whole host of other industries growing out of the ancestors of the folks who lived in places like the black rural south. i think we want to bring those communities in as well as other communities in places like west virginia were coal mines have closed down and places like the midwest, the industrial midwest were great in this country terms of innovation. we definitely need to be more deliberate in terms of how we are inclusive and include communities in kind of -- so

there is an economic future. host: in response to the question, it sounds like a lot of similar issues facing many of our rural community's that face our inner-city communities. guest: i think that is right. one thing that is unique, for example, broadband in the black rural south, about 38% of black folks don't have broadband. that is compared to about 22% of other rural residents and about 22% of black folks nationwide. so black folks in the black rural south are facing unique challenges that we have to kind of grapple with. yes, there is some commonalities and what is really important is that we understand some of our common challenges, but i think it is also important that we don't ignore the unique challenges that are faced by whether it is black community's in black rural south or tribal

populations in their history and the contemporary life that many folks who are on reservations are living. and so, yes, we have some similarity. we also want to recognize the differences and, you know, ensure everyone has an opportunity. host: our lines are open for your comments and questions. spencer, we had you on the program about a year ago and focused very much on capitol hill was pushing voting rights legislation. a year hence and now the 20 election has passed, -- 2022 election has passed, what is your view on capitol hill to pass voting rights legislation and the changes that were made to some voting laws in across the country?

where are we? guest: bill, we are in a mixed place. certainly it was a mixed bag for election deniers in the last election. on the one hand, many prominent election deniers lost as in arizona but there are many, over half of the election deniers who actually won. we still face a threat in terms of restrictive voting laws. one thing that we are really facing is our nation is becoming more diverse and with 70 people calling for racial justice, we have seen an increase in cultural anxiety. and this anxiety is showing disregard for the rule of law, intimidation, and even violence like we saw on january 6. it isn't just black-and-white but it is even between different communities of color. in l.a., for example, we saw latinx city council members

using anti-black rhetoric during redistricting. our founders, unfortunately, did not even conceive, many of them did not conceive of people of color participating in our politics. and so many of our institutions were never designed to facilitate multiracial democracy . in fact, they exacerbated our challenges. you talked about last year in the u.s. senate, which is not representative of the diversity of our nation's population, wyoming, which is not very diverse has left 2% of the population of very diverse population but representation in the u.s. senate were we saw voting rights legislation blocked up here. states have used gerrymandering in an unprecedented way for voting restrictions to dilute the voting strength of people. and the supreme court is right

now weakening the voting rights act, and we will see what they do with her current case in 2023. so we are at a crossroads. we have to figure out ways to build institutions that allow us to develop cross racial coalitions and to respect the differences of folks but also respect -- recognize our commonalities and come together to solve emerging problems. host: let's get to calls for spencer overton. we will first go to the democrats line. caller: one thing i would like to say with the speech with dr. martin luther king, the "i had a dream," let me tell you something, that was just a dream with no reality attached to it at all. the naacp was a great foundation. i spit any of my years i spent many years.

they helped us out. all types of things during that time. now have all these think tanks trying to tell us how to think and then they're going to washington to tell them how to vote. now, al sharpton -- i love the fellow, but if a black man got killed and it made national tv, i guarantee you rev. al sharpton we be there ready to sue for money. i graduated in 1976. this is where everything started. the day when we had disco, black, whites, puerto ricans. we all used to dance together. had no problem whatsoever. until we got ronald reagan. when ronald reagan, this particular time, ronald reagan was the governor of california. when he was running for president, he opened his

campaign in mississippi when people got killed. the next thing, get rid of j edgar hoover's name on the fbi building. host: several things there, robert. guest: we focus on data and research. we think it is important to inform public policy in making good decisions. i know both reverend sharpton and i know ben crump and both of them have put other things on hold in their lives, including personal gain, to give voice to the voiceless and to show up when folks are at times -- in times of crisis. it is not just been for african-americans, but for various other folks. no additional comment on that, but just wanted to be on the record there. host: let's hear from david in

new jersey, republican line. caller: hi. i have two questions. one is, i wanted to know what is your organization doing with regard to the crisis in terms of black host: let's hear from david in inglewood, new jersey. republican line. caller: yes, i want to know what your organization is doing with regard to the prices in terms of black kids reading levels. almost across the board in this country, black kid reading levels are way below grade level. no one ever talks about this situation. all this emphasis on this book will not be in this library and this is being banned here and all the other nonsense. but even they are, kids are not

on grade level in terms of reading. my second question has to do with all the black politicians that have been in power but we do not see the mo -- economic impact of this for years. in terms of the economy, we have to stop thinking of ourselves as victims and start thinking of ourselves as investors. in terms of the economy -- you talked about the college black graduates compared to white that have only been through high school, but yet, he did not look through the majors of the students. i'm not saying there is no reason, because there is

discrimination, but at the same time ways need -- we need to look at our reading and math levels. and then, we would have to look at urban school systems. i grew up in chicago. the democrats have controlled chicago for 100 years. host: ok you have a couple questions there. spencer overton. guest: sure i believe that economic credibility issues are important. we focus on the work in america. we found 27 percent of black workers are in high risk automation jobs. this is office clerks, and many black workers are in jobs like home health care. our plan is to create career pathways so people in the low-wage jobs can get her certificate that helps them get a higher paying job and a later

associate degree or bachelors degree. so someone may move from hotel -- home health care to being a medical assistant, a technician, and then a nurse. we do face challenges the gap between white and black graduation rates in community colleges is more than increasing, more than doubled. 11 percentage points in 2023. -- 2020. only about -- this increases racial disparities as well. most evaluations of workforce training programs do not track outcomes by race. we do not know if the programs are working well for black workers. we've got to fix these and other problems. i agree that we should focus on ensuring economic mobility for all. and let me just say, this benefits not just lack full's,

or latin american folks, but everyone. that could translate into an additional 2.7 trillion dollars per year in gdp in the u.s.. that is a 13% boost in our gdp which would mean our customers for businesses, more taxpayers to contribute to our elective elevations -- obligations. and ensuring our nation leads the world and the new economy. our history, there has been a use of low cost black and brown labor or no cost in the case of black full's. --folks. but the future cannot be based on that it has to be based on cultivating the talent of all americans. host: we will hear from keith on the democrats line from florida. go ahead. caller: you are a classmate of

mine in 1989 good to see you. guest: hey it is good to see you. caller: i want to speak with you on gerrymandering. it is something i am concerned about because i believe it dilutes and cancels out -- that it dilutes black political participation in a number of ways. and it also has a, kind of, military defect on those who may want to run. guest: right. caller: and i wanted to get your ideas of what you think of more challenge -- gerrymandering in the courts and how strong republican led legislations are across the country as they are focusing on that to get more political power. guest: thank you for calling in. i will take this moment to shout

out to hampton university our home by the sea area we have a great new president and i encourage people to check out the website it hampton university. gerrymandering has been with us for a while, but it has been taken to a new level recently with technology and the partisan interest of incumbents. and part of the problem is, rather than voters selecting the politicians, we've got politicians selecting the voters. i don't know that there is a lot of hope right now in terms of the current supreme court. a couple of years ago, they made a decision that said that, you know, that they cannot get involved in terms of partisan redistricting. it is not a judicial function here so they cannot stop these partisan gerrymandering's. right now, they are here again

case from alabama about section two of the voting rights act. it is a possibility that just as they scaled back the voting rights act in 2013 in shelby county versus holder that was section four and five, they could also scale back section two so that now, in this case, so that we have fewer elected officials of color in legislative bodies. there are a variety of race neutral alternatives that people are starting to think about and talk about. rank-choice voting, multimember districts, a variety of different solutions to this where there is less government intervention and more voters affiliating with who would want to affiliate with. one thing that's interesting

about this topic is that it is almost a very libertarian issue in the sense that you do not want government manipulating things. you want actual voters to be able to affiliate with each other. host: what would you say to our viewers who tweets this he says it would be nice if we stop with this spin and lies on voter suppression. in states like georgia, and others, they have 3-4 weeks of early voting, mail-in ballots, named a voting. when you have record turnout set is not suppression. it caused the mlb to pool the all-star game. talking about georgia. guest: i think it is all relative we do not know what the turnout would have been absent those laws. but we do know black turnout was low in places like louisiana and other places where there were -- there were restrictions. there was a very contested senate race in georgia and there

was a lot of money that was invested which could contribute to higher turnout again. this is a common issue that libertarians should be concerned about in terms of excessive regulation by government to prevent people from exercising their freedom to vote. in these cases, often they are justified by the concern about fraud. but, there is a lack of evidence of massive voter fraud that would change election outcomes here. so, just as folks what the liberty to carry guns and folks what the liberty to speak, there is a sense to find satisfaction with government through the vote. and voter restrictions unfortunately prevent fat. but that is an issue we have got -- prevent that. but that is an issue we have got

to address and the fact that our nation is changing -- there is an entrenchment piece in terms of taking america back as a backward as opposed to recognizing that we want everybody who is a legitimate participant to participate and engage in terms of our democracy. host: we go to the independent line next and hear from barbara in new york city. caller: good morning. what is the joint senators thoughts on tax exemption preparations? guest: thank you for your question. we have really focused on places like place based solutions like investing in the black roll staff. an expanding broadband. there are certainly things we focus on like expanded ei tc or income tax credit so that

low-wage working people are not taxed in the property -- taxed into property and trying to expand that. many of our solutions have been placed based. or maybe disproportionately recognizing some of the challenges that black folks have in front of them. we had not taken a formal position in terms of tax exemption is a form of reparations. host: next up is atlanta maria is on the democrat line they are. caller: good morning both of you and all c-span family. my concern is with the gun laws -- i know that laws can change and i can see the -- i have seen them change over decades. why is it that there is a

stronger force when they don't like to touch it. the gun laws in america are terrible area you find that in no other country. why is there not a strong force of trying to get it change? i will take america's theorist when they look at japan, [indiscernible] killing. just because their forefathers wrote it the rules could not be changed. it is ridiculous of the gun laws. politicians act like they do not want to talk about it. i will lose my vote area it is ridiculous with the gun laws. host: ok, maria, spencer overton is that something that the center has looked into? and taken a position on? guest: we actually have focused on gun laws we have a report from 2015 with this issue. i think it is a complex topic. certainly there is value to a reasonable restriction

recognizing that folks have gone hunting with parents and there is a -- mary is something that is deep there. there are some people that feel self protection is an important value. but there are also a lot of folks who are dying as a result of easy access to guns in the u.s. especially compared to other nations. one data point is that many of the gun homicides and victims are black and like male, a disproportionately large amount like over half. but the most gun deaths are white folks. that is a result of the disproportionately large percentage of folks who suicide or victims of suicide, basically, unfortunately.

they have a handgun and they think they will be safer as a result of images they may have seen on the news area and they get depressed or something like that and they unfortunately are victims of suicide. it is a really unique complex issue where people think when they are making themselves more safe, and actually they are making themselves more dangerous. they are submitting themselves to danger as a result of bringing a gun in the home at times. it is a complex issue and both sides are very well organized and vista debate will go on for a while i suspect. host: we hill -- hear from shirl next in new york, republican caller. caller: i'm a 58-year-old black woman i love my country. my husband and i have been able to be successful namely because we do not subscribe to victim mentality that the like ministers and democratic party constantly put forth.

my son goes to ivy league schools, we know the blacks who do well there are all from nigeria because they do not take part in this victim mentality. look at yourself, how did you become successful? i am sure you work hard in school. you took advantage of opportunities area so when you constantly tell people there is so much racism and you cannot a cat i agree with the foundation, -- you cannot -- i agree with the foundation. and there was a lot of money by being a -- i disagree with everything you're saying. guest: i think that is great it is america it is what we are about. there are other things that people can do to make a lot more money than he currently does. there is certainly a moral can earn it -- component to what he

does. and let me say that i agree that working hard is important. individual initiative, discipline is incredibly. those things are not divorced from structural issues. even laws that do not mention race, and bacon seem right -- and they can seem right, they expand racial enforcement one example is the g.i. bill created the middle class which is a great bill. but it expanded racial disparities. african-americans could not take advantage of the mortgage benefits or the tuition benefits because they were not allowed in several schools because of the north and the south. we do not want to repeat the g.i. bill bypassing laws that we think -- bypassing -- by passing

laws that we think are involving everyone but they leave some communities out. we have to think about policy how we think about policy is a collective exercise and that is >> tonight, we will hear from president biden, representative lucy and al sharpton. -- representative pelosi, and al-shater. >> president biden will deliver the annual state of the union address, outlining his ironies to congress.