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no, it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering to create wi-fi enabled list so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> senior writer with the wall street journal on the debt limit. how is it that we have a debt limit and why did we reach it? guest: the united states, the federal government has had a statutory debt limit that's written into the law by how much it may borrow. for more than 50 years, really. the debt limit has been increased 77 times since around 1960.

the idea is that congress puts restraint on how much the government borrows and what happens routinely is the government commits to spend more than it is capable of raising and revenue and it keeps raising the debt limit. occasionally we have these showdowns where lawmakers and the federal branch have a fight about whether to raise the debt limit and whether to impose some new restraints on spending to slow the growth of debt. that's what's happening right now. debt. that's what's happening right now. host: one lead sentence of a news story this morning is that the u.s. has been in debt and has been arguing about it for its entire existence. we have been here before. guest: we have been here before and i think that might actually

be a source of complacency. in fact i think it was a source of complacency last year. the treasury secretary, janet yellen, has been very worried about another one of these showdowns over the debt limit. because it routinely gets raised, there's an expectation on wall street and in expectation in washington that this would get out with at some point down the road. well, now republicans are in charge of the house. they want to have a debate, an argument, a fight, whatever you want to call it over whether there should be restraint on spending. the debt limit has been reached. the treasury is now taking unusual measures that it occasionally takes to keep funding itself.

i should say that what is at stake here is the government routinely spends more than it can and revenue, running large budget deficits. needs to borrow to keep running itself. kind of like if you take a lot of vacations and you spend more money than you bring in in income, you run up the credit card debt. that's what the federal government does. if it doesn't keep the debt rising, then it stops spending that it has been committed to. it potentially stops paying interest on the debt. which is a huge risk for wall street. it stops paying the faa employees. and a whole range of government payments and responsibilities are at stake. host: when cnn writes a headline that every american could feel the pain of washington's next showdown, how is it that the

average american feels the pain? guest: i just gave a few examples. an obvious one is social security. i should say again that every penny that the government spends is at stake because it spends more money than it brings in and revenue. we run large budget deficits. if they don't agree to continue borrowing, there is going to have to be some stopped, some slowdown in the spending. might be social security, might be interest on the debt. might be payments to the military. it's a very difficult question for treasury to manage. there is an idea in some quarters that treasury can prioritize payments. say that they are going to pay people a social security check, pay bondholders the interest on the debt but not other things. it's trillions of dollars.

it's very hard to choose to pick and choose what comes out and what doesn't. the path is in or mess. really what's at stake is it's a question of is this done in a manageable way, in an orderly way, restraint on spending. or is it done in a sudden and catastrophic way. if it's resolved does it become a sudden catastrophic stoppage of spending as opposed to doing it in some kind of orderly way. host: how does it get raised? guest: well congress has to agree to do it. this gets the goat of democrats. with republicans in the white house, the debt ceiling has been routinely raised. democrats have cooperated. when democrats are in the white house, republicans have often put up a fight over raising the debt limit.

there were routine fights during the obama years about doing it. i think the democrats take it somewhat personally because they feel that republicans increase spending just as aggressively as the democrats do in the democrats cooperate on raising the debt ceiling. but when it comes time for them to be in the white house, the rules of the game so to speak change. i should say it's a very gate -- dangerous jame -- dangerous game of chicken being played by both sides. the white house wanting to bludgeon republicans and label them as being irresponsible over this and republicans want to have a real discussion about spending restraint. the irony is that republicans have not restrained spending when they have been in power but there is a real discussion to be had in washington about the limits of how much the government is prepared to spend

on an annual basis. host: what conditions do republicans want to put in place? guest: this is a tricky question. the vast majority of money the government spends is on programs that are popular and/or necessary. social security. medicare. it affects millions of elderly americans. military spending. and interest on the debt. those categories, those four categories cover more than the majority of government spending. republicans tend to want to talk about discretionary spending, putting limits on discretionary spending. but that really isn't going to have a big effect on deficits. it's those big categories that i just mentioned that have the big effects on long-run spending and deficits.

people don't want to cut that. they don't want to touch that. a lot of americans feel like they paid their payroll taxes all these years and they want to keep eating the social security check. it comes down to whether this is done in an orderly way or a disorderly way. there are solutions that can be put in place over 50, 60, 7500 year timeframe. it all gets politicized in washington and it becomes very difficult to have an orderly, civilized debate. right now we are heading a fear for one of those games of chicken where both sides are pointing fingers at each other and it becomes a dangerous game for wall street. the reason wall street in particular gets worried about this is the entire financial system has at its bedrock u.s.

treasury securities. trillions of dollars that banks and foreign governments hold as investments. if the government stops paying interest on the debt, that's a default. it's like you not paying your mortgage. it causes all kinds of disruption. wall street has had its eyes closed, eyes are opening, you will see changes as a result of it. host: in the meantime, what is the treasury department doing and how much time is left on the clock? guest: they have got a few months and it has become a part of washington ritual dramas. they call it an extraordinary measure. it's been done so often over the

years. they use funds that are built into federal government pension programs to fund themselves rather than borrowing through the treasury market. they use the funds and cover the spending with that. what happens is after the debt ceiling is raised a few months down the road, they pay back the pension programs. well you know, those programs and other short-term measures it's like in your household if you have a little bit of money tucked away in an envelope for emergencies, you might have it and then if you can start borrowing again you put the money back in an envelope. it's only going to run a few months and it's not a long-term solution. host: to follow all of the reporting on this by john hilton >> looking ahead at our live

events friday, the transportation secretary and merrick garland address the united stateerence of mayors live at 10:30 a.m. eastern. at noon we will be live from the 40th annual march for life. our coverage will start following a brief house session. later a discussion on alleged threats to the first amendments. that is live at 2:00 eastern. watch all of these programs on c-span, c-span now our fre mobile video app or online at c-span.org. if ynot tch live view any c-span program anytime at oureo lrary. search by keyword, name or topic. look for the video library at the top of our homepage. >> booktv, every sunday on c-span 2 features leading

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♪ >> mitco supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> over four days c-span's cameras had unprecedented access to the u.s. house as kevin mccarthy became the 56th speaker of the house. it was history in the making with unscripted political moments from the house floor. with complete, uninterrupted, unbiased coverage of congress. here's what people are saying. a hollywood reporter wrote c-span is america's hottest tv drama in 2023. the house speaker drama has one winner, c-span.

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