without an approvepl to increase oil drilling on federal public land. watch coverage on the house on c-span, the center on c-span two, and watch on the free video app c-span now or online at c-span order. -- c-span.org. >> 10 days after 9/11, intelligence agency analyst alva montes was arrested by the fbi on sp unknowns charges -- on espionage charges, and was sentenced to 25 years in prison. e was released in early january 2023 after serving 20 years. tonight on q and a, investigative journalist, author of "codename blue red," talks about the life and career of ana montes. >> she did not take documents out of the building. very rarely would she take a

piece of paper or photo out of cia. she would memorize it. her day job is study and memorization. then she would go home to her apartment, and her night job begins where she would type in what she had learned into her encrypted toshiba laptop, put it on a disk, and day after day for nearly 17 years, she is aggregating this information and passing it along. >> jim popkin with his book "codename blue wren," on c-span. listen on the free c-span now app. >> continuing our look at the house republican commitment to america and how that might play out when it comes to legislative efforts, particularly border security and i'm -- immigration. joining us is stef kight of

axios. security and immigration matters, what would you say is the republic's philosophy? guest: the republicans are focused on the current policies at the border. they want to make it more difficult for people to come across. there was a cut back on parole -- they want to cut back on parole. the focus is on trying to lower those numbers and crackdown on people who are to the -- cross the border illegally. host: some of the specifics will beunding theorr enforcement strategy, talking about that catch and poll, it will require proof of legal status and eliminate welfare incentives. how would republicans describe that? guest: the talk about the use of parole.

officially people have to go through the process in order to come into the country legally, they have to apply for asylum. at times our system is overrun and we have seen that over the past three years. there have been large numbers of people comes across the border, apply for asylum, border officials will release people under parole and are given court dates and go through the legal process. republicans have said this has been overly used. that administration has been using this process and releasing too many people and there needs to be a different option when resources are overwhelmed. there should be a different option such as returning people to mexico, forcing people to wait on the other side of the break or by the cases go through. there are big issues with releasing people before they have been granted legal visa or means of staying in the country.

host: would you say house republicans are united with the alternate ideas to change the system? guest: i would say by a large most republicans are in favor of focusing on the enforcement side of immigration and internal policies, moving in a different direction then democrats. they're not interested as much as providing legal pathways to migrants who are already here. in the broad scope of things, republicans tend to be in agreement, but it is when you get down to the details for the line start to break out and people have different meanings on the best approaches. host: you talked about the moderates. guest: the moderates may not be as eager to allow so much leeway to limit people from accessing asylum. that is one thing immigration advocates are concerned about. we will make it difficult for people to pursue asylum, i

rightly believe people should have in this difficult situation. others may want to see some pathways for dreamers, dr. is still popular but that is not something that we are hearing house republicans talk about. host: the small majority they have that to be careful of how they approach to satisfy the moderates? guest: exactly. looking at the speaker election. all of it takes is a handful of republicans who are not on board and suddenly nothing can get done. host: our guest this with us till 8:45 a.m. if you want to ask her questions about the border issues and house republicans. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. if you live in a border state, 202-748-8003.

also that same number to text us, 202-748-8003. mark green is the chair of the homeland security committee. what does that mean? guest: he has been very critical of the biden administration. he has been critical and he has made it clear that he intends to use his position on the committee to investigate how the administration has handled the situation at the border. he has made it clear who is at fault, it is one of three committees. they plan to investigate the border issues, immigration, the policies the by the administration has taken. this is something he cares a lot about. i climb in the hall the other day and he was telling reporters there is going to be in the process of investigation and to

he sees clear buckets he thinks that are worth investigating. host: why the main concerns -- what are the main concerns? guest: republicans say he has not done we need to be done to keep the southern border safe and secure. they take issue with some of the policies he has issued. there are personal concerns the department of homeland security has not been forthcoming. they asked for information and i'm sure that will be a running theme once we start seeing the committee form and have the hearings going forward. i'm expecting them get into parole as we talked about. and also rolling back some of the trump administration policies. we have heard over and over from republicans they think the trump era policies should have remained in place, such as remain in mexico. they'll be a focus. host: when it comes to a

legislative vehicle, how long until we see something come out of the committees? guest: we can see it come soon. there movement on policies as soon as the spring we will see that they exceed out. right now they are figure out who will be on the committee and organize. it is a process that has to be gone through before they can hold hearings. we will start seeing movement in the next couple of weeks as they start to plan to hearings and investigations. host: stef kight from axios joining us for this conversation. let's hear from karen in new york, republican line. caller: hi. i am glad that people are waking up explain the coffee and seeing what is going on at the border. the border is not close.

it is open. you have thousands coming today. the border patrol people can only handle so much. i feel bad for their families and people who live in texas. we are 50 states and everyone has to get on board truck with each other, -- work with each other. we are all one. the -- probably the same. enough people coming in, it is a disgrace. there is no where put these people. our taxes keep going up every day. people are suffering. i do not understand it. you cannot afford an electrical card. you cannot find a place to charge it. host: we will stick to the border issues. guest: the caller mentioned republicans and democrats need to look -- get together and most people agree with that. we have not seen any real

changes to immigration laws in a long time. it is one of the reasons why there has been large numbers at the border for we do not have the resources to allow people to come in an orderly way. both sides of the i would say congress need to take a look at the immigration laws and do something more permanent and not leave everything to the executive branch to change policy. even that uncertainty is another reason why experts say we continue to see such large numbers of people. host: the caller mentioned border patrol is overwhelmed. we saw president biden make a trip to el paso to talk about it. what is border patrol saying? guest: we have heard from border patrol who are frustrated with the by the administration and have been for the past four years. there has been a lot going on.

especially depending on which sector they are working in. we see the flow of the migrant shift and when they are overrun, they are overrun. they have to work overtime may be spend more time in processing. there is a sense of frustration. policies go beyond border patrol logistics. there's a bigger policy issue that needs to be fixed. host: from keat in las vegas, democrats line. caller: i would like to make the comment the additional traffic that is showing up at our border, a lot of it has to do with republicans getting on tv and in the news saying the border is open. they should really do something about that. there are people in the other countries using it as a promotional tool to get people to sign up to be traffic to the border. i do not believe the border is

open as you can walk across it. we do not say that enough. guest: you raise a good point about messaging and it is something we hear a lot. the by the on messaging tactics. the aspen money to put let's just -- spent money to put messages out the saying do not traveled to u.s. mexico and cross illegally. messaging does play a role. whether republican go on tv help encourage people to come across the border to leave their home country, it is unclear. i do think it is important to remember when people are living in poverty or in danger come if they decide they need to flee their country, they are going to flee their country. there are few messaging tactics that will prevent them for doing that. host: what do i print just tell

us about the idea of the border being open? guest: there's a lot of focus on is the border open or close. it is both. it depends on where you're coming from and how you're coming in your nationality, you may see a different situation. there are a lot of people coming across. we have seen two back to back record members -- years. people telling they can come now. or that they need to come now in their fleeing situations and that side of the story is to remind people. there are also continuing to use john barrow policies -- trump era policies to turn back people who come across and do not have legal means of staying. it is not is that the biden administration is doing nothing. that criticize from the left to continue to use the policy and expand the use of the policy that allows them to quickly

expel my respect to mexico were not from mexico. host: thank you for bringing up title 42. what is the expectation of the supreme court looks at it? guest: at this point, there may be a surge around that time. that is always expectation. any change in policy double come quickly will result in a search there but it would attend on how the biden administration plans for that potential and. there's a talk about policy that allows them to get back to mexico. they have claimed they will continue to ramp up title eight which is the normal means of arresting and deporting people, not title 42. depending on whether they continue these policies, other ways to send people back that

may eliminate the number of people coming. host: stef kight from axios joining us for this conversation. kimberly in arizona on the republican line. caller: people actually can sit there and save the border is not open. it is open. it is intentional. biden would have kept things in place, i would've been fine with him. mayorkas has lied to congress. the border is open. i have friends that are border and they are overwhelmed. people are in danger because of this. we welcome migrants. legally. it is not america's problem to take care of every other country. this is frustrating. enough already. i do not understand how people can sit there and say it is close. mayorkas is somewhat of a

traitor. they're not taking care of their own people. it is really upsetting. guest: one way to think about this is looking at the policy and the logistics of the border. if you look at the policy, there are policies in place that prevent people from entering the u.s.-mexico border and it is not just come in, there is no process. we also have a legal process for claiming asylum, regardless of how you cross the border. you can illegally cross the border and have access to our silent system. it is a part of our border policy. logistically, border has been overwhelmed. there are times in situations that do have the appearance of an open border.

where resources have been strained and we have to turn towards less than ideal strategies for handling that. to the college point, there is frustration along the border, especially when resources are overrun and we have to turn to these secondary last resort policies. at the same time, we have to look at the policy overall and say we are not allowing just any was a cub -- anyone to come and the reason we see such high numbers of crossing, each one is someone who has encountered someone who is a border official. it is how we count them. people are being called. they are being registered and placed in the system. host: once someone applies to asylum and should they get it, what happens to them, but how much support do they get the federal government, as far as to live? guest: there is little support

beyond they are allowed to legally work in the u.s. when they go to the system. they're able to find jobs. it falls all ngo's to provide that initial support for people. you see how closely the ngo's work with the federal government to help migrants in the first steps. people who are arriving at the border have family members who are in the u.s. and they plan to join them. it can be any stay across the country where they are planning to go and work and sometimes the money back to their families who remain in their home country. when the cups of the federal government support for asylum-seekers, there is very little help provided. host: michael in albuquerque, democrat line. caller: good morning. i called last year about this issue.

i wondered why signal concentration with mexico is so. i understand president biden went out to mexico and met with the mexican president but it is important the united states not allow this to happen. thank you. guest: dennis been a large focus of that administration. the policy i mentioned a little bit ago that allows the u.s. to expel venezuelans, cubans, and haitians fully depend on mexico's cooperation. we cannot just and people back to mexico without the mexican government agreed to do so. there are certainly people who think mexico should be doing more to enforce its own border, but there is cooperation between u.s. and mexico and the u.s. has

been working with other countries in the hemisphere tried to get them to help us out and enforce their own borders. panama is another example. u.s. works with to stop the flow of migrants crossing dangerous gaps through panama. this is an important part of the debate and diplomacy is a huge part of this. host: helping those areas where you see people flee for political reasons, and for financially, improving the infrastructure so they do not leave in the first place? guest: the root cause is something that administration is focused on and they are focus on efforts of central american nations which for a long time have been the top countries were people coming from as they had to the u.s. that is not the only tactic they have taken. they work with some government in the western hemisphere to support them in their own

policing and enforcement priorities. guatemala, for example, and provide them resources to track human smugglers and there are a lot of different ways u.s. work with other governments. host: jim in new york on the republican line. caller: hi. i can be on this program and do a documentary of how bad it is over here. i want to say something about president eisenhower. he did something about this. he was for america. we cannot get that kind of leadership anymore in this country. he force them out of here. look it up on your computer and show the people this. wikipedia operation went back. he got them out of here. where i live the only roles there are are no rules. i go to the town hall, this is a

border child. you would not live here and neither which are guest. they are paying taxes on single-family housing. the supervisor of the town -- host: what is the question for our guest? caller: has she heard about operation went back -- wet back? guest: i can't say i know the details about those policies. a part of this is logistical issues. it is not feasible for the u.s. to deport anyone who was here undocumented and often times people are going through a legal process and it takes time. we do deport people who are here

unauthorized. we do take people back to mexico or their home country using title 42. it is not as if u.s. has zero enforcement mechanisms. the reality is if you come in the u.s. the chance of being deported are low at this moment because of the length of time it takes but there are mechanisms, especially for people who commit any type of crime. host: we saw last week the introduction of border safety and security act that will allow homeland security secretary to turn away certain migrants. what does that mean, operational control? guest: it is vague intentionally. allowing the secretary to decide if resources are overrun, if there is a need to float the number of people across the border, the idea is he can decide, no you cannot come across the border let's you have a legal visa, which are blocked access to asylum.

that's what most people are claim it they cost -- cross the border. it is similar to what we are doing with title 42 and how we view it. title 42 is linked to public health concerns and in the control of the cdc. this law would instead allow secretary of dhs to decide to shut the border and not let people in and not let people seek asylum if he felt it was necessary. host: from mark in missouri. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question, it is something i have heard and maybe you can clear this up. i have heard that there are dozens of terrorist that have been called trying to come in to our country thought the illegal

aliens and i also heard, i want to know if that is true, and also there are hundreds of thousands got a waste of a claim in our country and they are here legally. of those got always -- aways, i'm wondering how many of them are terrorists? i am waiting to see if that administration policies arc putting americans at risk. isn't it the american -- government job to keep americans safe? are there terrorists being caught at the border? guest: there are people who come across the u.s. mexico border who are flagged for being suspected or known terrorists. that is a scary term and it is hard to know what that means. they can be suspected terrorist,

but there is national security risk at the u.s.-mexico border. most situations a suspected terrorist or known terrorists do not actually happen. it is usually at air border -- airports where the people are flagged. i never want to belittle the fact that there is a national security concern and it is something that the administration is focused on and trying to prevent. those numbers we get in those numbers are public. i do not know the current status but you can find those publicly and see how many people have come across the border who have been flagged as on these lists. two they got always, -- got w 202-748-80 -- there are got a ways and we do not know how many have been applied. host: from taxes on the

democrats line. caller: good morning. i would like to hear some comment on the fact that historically, taxes and other states have enjoyed relationship mexico commerce, taurus, travel. that is the way it has been for many years. what are the awes they are getting to be legislation to pass data -- daca and give people a true path and another thing, if we think now we are having problems filling jobs, which i hear every single day, then just close the border down and see what kind of problems we will have been filling jobs. i see it every day in my town and i know the contribution that

our mexican friends have. a part of the problem is they hate of calling people got always and wet backs. we need to realize live in a world that is not our isolated bubble. what are the odds we can come back to, humanity in our legislation? guest: she raises good points about the ways that migrants help our economy, especially local economies. if you visit some of the communities along the border, it is very normal to go back and forth from mexico to the u.s.. it is common to have immigrants in your communities, kitchens, jobs helping serve on the border patrol. there are many pluses in our economy and our economy needs to be growing. especially as we see right race

the client and demographic shift in the country -- birth rates the client and demographic shifts in our country. when it comes to whether we will see agreement to provide pathways to citizenship or daca recipients, it is hard to see how it what happened with republicans in control of the house and the bogus on the determined and enforcement policies not talking about daca. it is hard to see economies -- compromise for me. it seems like it will take more time to get to a place or we can pass something on immigration. host: we sell efforts on the senate side, what was the end result? guest: it was not enough to get republicans they needed to agree to. republicans did not feel like it was a real effort and there was

something they could sign off on. it fell apart at the last minute. we will continue to see bipartisan efforts in senate and house. we hear rumblings of people trying to work across the aisle to come up with an immigration solution but because it has become a hot political topic, there are people on the far side of both parties are going to be unlikely to sign off on any compromise. host: pat felling signing articles of impeachment against mayorkas, mark green talked about that recently. i will play you what he had to say. [video clip] >> we are sending letters over to the apartment -- department and subpoena emails. we'll have mayorkas come in and look at the loss of that not been enforced. we will inform the american

people about the dollars that have been wasted with ngo contracts. a lot of things very digging into. if it looks like he needs to be impeached. go were handed off to the judiciary committee. host: jim jordan ahead of the dimmitt -- judiciary committee. guest: i think people are hesitant to commit to it happening but i sure we will see investigations both broadly into immigration and border policy, but also into mayorkas and it is something republicans have been talking about for months now and setting up this potential for impeachment. eva speaker kevin mccarthy -- even speaker kevin mccarthy mentioned mayorkas should resign if he does not, he will consider pursuing impeachment inquiry. we are kind of starting to see people who they mayorkas decides

size to be impeached saying he has not done his job in supposed to at the border. there are moderates who feel like the actual standard that needs to be met for impeachment is not going to be met. there may be critical of how he has handled the policies but the matters are saying this is not worthy of impeachment. host: our conversations with stef kight of axios. let's hear from tony in ohio. caller: good morning. i question here, i am tony, and your stef kight? with all these calls coming in, most of them have been anti-illegal immigration. you are speaking of the policies that would cover this policy or a policy that people are more

familiar with and then there is an underlying policy that permits these things. is the congress, and i'm hearing a lot of media focus, it seems so nonchalant. as if the public opinion does not mean anything. you mentioned about people having minimal support for coming here. if you see -- a lot of people from all over send their money back home. how is that helping our economy? i know i am asking a lot of questions but i've been listening to the show as it goes on and the comments from you and the commentator and none of the questions point to the public's opinion. if you -- i do not look on twitter but i hear about twitter and facebook sites for it in

people come over and they bring their own form of racism from whatever of the world they come from. comments like, i get treated better in your country than you do. host: ok. public perception or public opinion? guest: public opinion does matter. if you look at some of the polling that has been done on the american public on how they view immigration, you will see a much more nuanced perspective on immigration demo we often hear from politicians. people do want to see a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. it is popular with the american public. even among republicans, but republican voters say there should be a pathway to citizenship for people who have been brought here as children. there is concern about illegal immigration, wanting to enforce our immigration laws and ensure people, on the legal pathway but i do think it is important to

take interest in the polling. host: for those that live in border states, this is where andy is on the republican line. caller: hello. i have a couple of comments in the question. personally living in a border state i was disappointed with our senator for a long time. mark kelly and told him he should be more outspoken about the border. i believe it is criminal with this administration is doing at the border. they are ok with it a song as it is not in their backyard. martha vineyard a perfect example. there's going to be a lot of collateral damage because of these policies. if you think -- mayorkas says -- ask the men and women of the border and they will tell you it

was under control under the last administration but it is a dumb supplier today -- dumpster fire today. was so quick to use race as the reason they were doing and now my question, do you know with the doj assessment on additional crimes that were importing in this country? i'm not saying every person coming here is going to commit crime but anyone think that 5 million people that have been in the country the last two years, none of them are going to commit crime? guest: i do not know that the justice department has dug into this issue but there has been several reports done of the crime among immigrant

communities and undocumented communities and there's never been anything to indicate that and document immigrant are more likely to commit any crime. if they do commit crime, they are likely to be deported. i know my colleague who covers racial justice did an interesting study and were about this a few years ago, if you look at border communities with high number of immigrants, crime rates are lower than other comparable cities throughout the u.s. there is no data to indicate that immigration communities is increasing crime rates. host: to the extent, we hear people call in to connect immigration problem to the fentanyl problem, but as a direct tie -- what is the direct tie to the issue we are having? guest: it is true fentanyl is

coming across u.s. mexico border. it is a concern. it is important to separate the smugglers who are bringing humans across the border who are guide people to the u.s., it is illegal business but it is separate from the illegal drug smuggling that happens. it is not immigrants themselves who are bringing illicit drugs across the border. it is important to separate those. it is important for the u.s. to make sure they are doing what they can to keep the dangerous substances of the u.s. and it is a focus of administration to work on ways to improve technology. many of these drugs come across legal ports of entry rather than being smuggled illegally. it is impossible to check every single cargo that comes through. it is one way and focusing on the technology that enables border control during illicit

substances across the border. host: earl in illinois. caller: good morning. to piggyback on what the young lady just said, fentanyl is brought in the united states by professional drug smugglers, not by people trying to escape. the other thing, correct me if i'm wrong, i'm under the impression there has been immigration legislation in front of congress for a dozen years. i believe kennedy, mccain, some sort of legislation there. we have solutions for the border but congress will not act on them because it is easier to

complain about the problem then it to address the problem. if they were to take away this is a problem, they would have one less thing to complain about. could you correct me if i'm wrong? guest: i do not think you are completely off-base to say it is easier to complain about issues then it is to address it. but there are real differences in how the parties think we should address this problem. could there be solutions? could there be ways we could laws to make this work a little bit better? absolutely. i do not think we have seen enough real efforts of compromise between republicans and democrats to look at the things they want to see at the border and try to find a way to have -- the by the administration has been trying

to allowing legal pathways but if there is a way for congress both agree to republicans demands to invest in enforcement mechanisms at the border, but also look at democratic proposals that will allow legal means for people to come to the u.s. rather than coming across illegally. there could be something there, but those discussions tend to fall apart. host: sidney from florida. caller: one of the things i have realized, there are actually some things that have been sped up. every time i hear recorded even negatively it is always a point of saying, they captured these mini strokes -- many drugs, capture these many people on the

watchlist. and they are capturing these people as well as trying to process people. in the thing that does not happen is to be able to put more processes and more people to do things along the border but it comes back to being able to invest in that but you have a political situation where it is to the benefit of republicans to complain so they can set up a situation that will make this present political situation for the democrats -- democratic president to make him look as bad as possible so when it comes a time for some type of vote, they can throw all of this up in the air like they did for the midterms and then say this is a democratic thing. we live in an america situation with an american president who is trying to do stuff in

conjunction with all of the offices that are in place. guest: the colors talking about the politics on the issue. we have decided the fact that even under the trump administration, there was a record year of border crossings in 2019. this is not an issue that just comes up during democratic administrations and and is an important thing to remember. domestic policies matter. how the u.s. wants to handle asylum, immigration, border policies matter. it is a broader trend we are seeing. you have to look at the other countries people are fleeing from. look at the issues there and recognize the shift in that's kind of people coming to the border, nationalities arriving signify it is not just about domestic policy. it is a response to issues going on throughout the western hemisphere. yes, we need immigration

policies that the u.s. stands by. but the issue is much broader than that. host: to live beers what to watch out for rope -- tell our viewers what to watch out for as house republicans treat immigration? guest: i will be paying attention to what they investigate when it comes to the border issues. it is easy for them to use this time -- time to talk about border numbers and brightly -- brightly attack mayorkas but i am curious to see if we get interesting details of how policies work and whether there is anything that can move forward or any efforts to work with democrats to get to an agreement. host: you can find the work of stef kight on >> washington journal continues. host: we have been looking at elements of the commitment to america to introduce last year and how it might play out in policy matters not that th