[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] ♪ host: good morning. it's saturday, february 11,

2023. a new report says half of public school students started the year behind their grade level in at least one subject. the school systems are also dealing with severe staffing shortages. mental health crises among kids, disagreements on curricula among others. this morning, we're asking what do you consider the biggest issue facing public education today? give us a call and share your thoughts. students and parents, the number is 202-748-8000. educators can call 202-748-8001. and everybody else, 202-748-8002. you can also send us a text. that number is 202-748-8003. be sure to send your first name and your city, state. we're on social media, facebook.com/cspan and twitter and instagram at twitter.com/cspanwj. welcome to "washington journal." before we get to your calls, i want to show you an article

about that report i just referenced. it says that about half of k through 12 public school students started this year behind their grade level and at least one subject, most commonly, read organize math. the 49% of 1,026 said it is unchanged from last school year. but it's much worse than the 36% of students before the coronavirus pandemic. and here's another article. this is from the 74 headline. school's new normal, teacher

shortages, repeat meals, late buses, canceled classes, from recruiting staff at the grocery store to launching on-site aftercare, schools are trying to adapt in their third pandemic year. in a school just east of atlanta, students routinely miss 30 minutes of their 47-minute first minute class because of bus driver shortage. books arrive months into the semester delayed by paper shortages and some 15 classes at one new york high school were canceled last semester for a lack of substitutes. in a maryland high school outside of d.c., new pencils were nowhere to be found when classes started in the fall. the victim of supply chain lags and no staff to order them. and nacho cheese has become a mainstay on one indianapolis school lunch's menu as spiraling

costs and ingredient shortages have led to meals on repeat. that's the new normal in schools across the country. well let's take a look at a portion of the state of the union, president biden earlier this week making the economic argument for improving education in the country. president biden: restoring the dignity work, when we made public education 12 years of it universal in the last century, we made the best educated, best paid -- we became the best paid nation in the world. the rest to the world's caught up it's caught up. jill, my wife, who teaches full time has an expression. i hope i get it right, kids. any nation without educate -- that outeducates us is going to outcompete us. folks, we all know 12 years of education is not enough to win the economic competition of 21st

century. [applause] we want to have the best educated workforce. let's finish the job! by providing access to preschool. studies show children that go to preschool are 50% more likely to finish high school no matter their background they came from. let's give public school teachers a raise. [applause] we're making progress by reducing student debt, increasing pell grants for working middle class families. let's finish the job and connect students to career opportunities starting in high school, provide access to two years of community college. the best career training in america in addition to being a pathway to a four-year degree.

[applause] host: that was president biden at the state of the union on tuesday. education was also a topic for the republican response. so here's a portion from republican governor sarah huckaby sanders. >> down the street from where i sit is my alma mater, little rock central high. as a student there, i will never forget watching my dad, governor mike huckabee and president bill clinton hold the doors open to the little rock. doors that 40 years earlier had been closed to them because they were black. today, those children once barred from the schoolhouse are now heroes, memorial eyesed and -- memorial rised and bronzed of

our state house. i believe giving every child access to a quality education regardless of their race or income is the civil rights issue of our day. tomorrow, i will unveil an education package that will be the most far reaching, bold conservative education reform in the country. my plan empowers parents with real choices, improves literacy and career readiness and helps put a good teacher in every classroom by increasing their starting salary from one of the lowest to one of the highest in the nation. here in arkansas and across america, republicans are working to end in the policy of trapping kids in failing schools and sentencing them to a lifetime of poverty. we will educate, not indoctrinate our kids, and put

students on a path to success. host: let's start with st. paul, minnesota. lawrence. good morning. caller: good morning. that's the first time i've spoken to you and i have to congratulate you that you've done a wonderful job since you came on board. host: thank you. caller: two things. the first, state legislatures, particularly the federal government has turned education into a social experiment and essentially gotten away from the framework of focusing on reading, writing, and stem. i think that's terrible what legislatures are trying to do. the second one and to me, this is the most important one, is as

other foundations have discovered, no amount of money can replace the need for parents to be engaged in the academic success for their children. we have far too many parents who are not looking up to the applications and i use the word parents in plural. we are far too many parents who are not being involved in the academic success of their children, particularly as it relates to when you walk to the halls of school and you talk to educators and administrators, counselors, they will talk about the negative impact single-parent homes have because what's happening is a lot of resources are being directed into making sure kids are fed, making sure your kids are not violent, making sure that kids are clothed. all of those types of things were the responsibilities basically should be with the parents and have now been pushed

into the school district. so i'll leave it there. host: yeah. i'm curious as to what to do about that. in other words, would you prefer more resources being put into supporting families rather than supporting the schools? caller: yeah, in terms of solution -- boy, this will sound politically biased, but you can't have politicians going out there saying we need to dedicate more resources to the single mothers without first asking why are we finding it acceptable to have households that don't have two parents, particularly father figures. so it's so much a single solution as much as it is a social responsibility in being a parent. host: got it. de'andre is in baltimore, maryland, a student. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me. good morning to all the patrons

out there. from my experience, the number one problem, i would say with the public education school system is we are just way too dependent and attached to technology. i feel like we have to stick to the old-fashioned and basics, arts and craft, hands-on activities, and, you know, don't allow our children to just get into a cyber, you know, technology like reality and just more -- eventually you have to be able to stick to the basics, you know, and do something hands on. host: you know, de'andre, i was just thinking about the artificial intelligence and schools are starting to grapple with that. have you experienced that? what's your experience in school? caller: so, i graduated class president and i had integrated

like pathway for learning and it was very like, you know, it was at your own pace. it wasn't like the traditional thing. it was at your own pace and everything was provided to you. the sooner you get it in the world in the corporate, you have all the tools you need to be successful, instead of just getting credit from just you know, meeting the deadline. you really have to take a step back and see where you're going. at this point, it's like -- i feel like the state of the public education system will possibly like not make it through. it's just not. it's not providing enough results. host: so deandre, what are you doing now? are you continuing in school or what are you -- are you still study something. caller: yeah, right now, i'm

working on trying to establish a community of people that's willing to make the sacrifice to basically try to, you know, provide a security blanket and safety net for the educational system for all our kids and especially the kids on the spectrum. i mean, we have to -- we got our kids and we got to get rid of the common core and all this extra crap and stop thinking it's going to be ok. demoralizing children, i don't like it. -- the path that we're heading on. host: got it. steve is in san jose, california. good morning, steve. caller: good morning. there are so many issues that are affecting our schools but i think the breakup, the overall -- umbrella, the overall issue, people, let's stop and think.

the school unions are primarily overwhelmingly controlled by the democrats. and let's ask ourselves is it in the best interest of the democrats, the school unions to educate our children to where they get excellent jobs. let's say firefighters and lawyers and doctors and scientists where they can support themselves. and i say it's not in the best interest of the school union to educate our children because if they fully educated our children, they wouldn't need the handout of the democratic party. host: so steve, you would put unions as the biggest issue?

caller: i would put unions as the biggest issue. they have totally destroyed our schools and it's not really the fault of the inclass educators, it's the fault of the higher-ups who control the curriculum. i noticed this trend back in 1963 in math studies. back then, they came out with a way of learning math that was called smsg. and we all made fun of it. and to us, it stood for some mathematician sure goofed. host: but i take it, steve, you learned math, huh? caller: i learned math, but i tell you, it was very, very

difficult. host: all right. well let's hear from a parent in fort lauderdale, florida. good morning, kim. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. i'm a parent and my student goes to high school. and i agree with all the callers that you've had call in prior. i think, yes, we do have definitely a shortage of teachers and i believe each teacher has approximately 30 to 35 students per class which is a lot and taking into consideration that -- i think this is a very angry generation that we have here. i believe partly that it starts in the family. there's no respect. the teachers are trying to do the best they can.

i do believe one of the biggest factors for the students is the cell phones in the classrooms. i do think they should eliminate them, not totally, but have some guide rules for the classrooms for no cell phones. because the students are definitely not focused on their academics. they're watching their tiktoks, they're watching their social media, and they have a short term memory loss. they're not able to concentrate. host: yeah, some schools are doing that. caller: that's one of the best things that schools should endorse in theirs classes. but like ill said, this generation is very angry. every other day, my student comes home and says there's fighting in the school. and the police are there.

and students are getting suspended. and yes, there is skeleton crews at schools. it is very sad. i do believe they need a raise. and i can remember even when my child was very, very young, i remember having a parent-teacher conference. the best advice i can get for all the parents out there that when you do go to one of these meetings, if you believe just half of what your student says and half of what the teacher says, then you're doing just fine. don't side with either one 100%. host: all right, kim. so kim mentions kids being angry. this is a pew research poll and it's called parenting in america today. mental health concerns tops the list of worries for parents. mostly, being a parent is harder than they expected no. surprise there. but here's kind of the graph showing the top concerns percentage of parents saying

that how concerned they are or how worried they are about the following happening to their child. here you have at the top is struggling with anxiety or depression, followed by being bullied, and then it goes down from there. finally getting in trouble with police at the bottom. so that's from the pew research poll. let's talk to david next. franklin, west virginia. hi, david. caller: i think the biggest issue you got in the schools now -- well, not necessarily in the schools, you've got several issues. the kids are not being teached the basics. reading, math and because i do this as an example. i'll go enter certain places and i will have these young kids. i will intentionally do this. give them x amount of money and

have them to give me change back and they can't even do this. they got to get their cell phone out and figure out how much they're going to give me back. that just shows that these kids are not being taught the basics in school. now, to me, that is sad that our school system cannot even teach the basic math of adding and subtracting. host: so why do you think that's changed? i mean, i take it back in your day, they would've, you would've learned to be able to do math in your head. caller: he was an old fella and the things we had to do. well, this one girl, she used a calculator. we wrote it down and added it up. host: yep. all right, david. let's talk to randolph next in charles city, virginia, an educator. hey, randolph.

caller: good morning, america. i own a small business called virginia is for education. i started this business because there is no more important issue than children's health. i was injured in industrial accident and when i was well enough to volunteer, i did so on a pediatric spinal injury floor where i find out there was no equipment and children are not taught -- they're taught how to play games rather than pursue a life of fitness. so i built out a 50-foot trailer with 30 stationary bikes in it that fits children 4-year-olds and up. in 2003, i've been i'm a presidential partner. i've made 1,400 school site

visits and i've connected the dots from troubled neighborhoods in corners right back to the school here in state wide here in virginia. so what we got to do is we got to figure out how one person can mentor 600 children. we don't have 600 mentors for 600 children. so you got to develop programming and facilities that can move around and are efficient and results and outcome-based. that's what i've been doing. host: all right, randolph. and here's an article from "the hill" because there is -- it was the year's first education hearing g.o.p. and democrats clashed on parental involvement. it says that the house of republicans and democrats traded barbs on wednesday over parental involvement in schools and curriculums. a hot button topic that has

become the leading front in the culture wars. and let's take a look here. here is a portion of that hearing. this is the republican chairwoman virginia fox of north carolina. she talks about the need for more parental rights. >> my top priority as chairwoman is to protect parental rights. during the pandemic, parents saw first hand how poorly our educational system is serving students these parents witnessed the educational establishment for the interest of teachers unions over the interest their unions. and parents witnessed with their children fall further and further behind academically. this learning loss has been def estating causing millions of students to lose years of academic progress. the 2022 saw schools for 9-year-olds decline five points in reading and seven points in

math compared to 2020. this is the largest average decline in reading since 1990 and first ever decline in math. parents have reason to be angry and should have every opportunity to express their concerns. instead, they were silenced and intimidated. some parents were forcibly removed invested by the f.b.i. and called domestic terrorists. this must change. i will champion the parents' bill of rights led by julia let low of louisiana. this legislation will protect the rights of parents to know what their children -- child is being taught in the classroom as well as their right to be herd. it is time -- heard. it is time for the education -- to be heard that children belong to the parent, not the state. host: that was republican virginia fox in the house.

we also have susan on the push by republicans for school choice. >> i want to start by expressing my strong opposition of the notion that the solution to the so-called crisis in american education is to funnel taxpayer dollars for private charter schools. programs from all types undermine the effectiveness of public education. vouchers do not improve student achievement and when policymakers make a conscious decision to give coupons to certain students to attend private schools, their message to the millions of students still attending public schools is you don't matter. a real crisis is that many of my colleagues in congress and in

state legislatures are pining at a device towards the exclusion of lgbtq students and students with disabilities, try to sensor and silent content that does not fit their ideology and agenda and failing to address gun violence. i spent more than 15 years as an active parent volunteer and an advocate for public education. i was in many classrooms and many conversations. we can all agree that it is an summit. part of creating a inclusive part of environment for all students and i welcome the opportunity to work with my colleagues to uplift best practices in family engagement rather than parents against their kids' educators in schools. host: and our topic this morning on "washington journal" is the biggest issue facing public education. and we're taking your calls. let's talk to lahuna in hawaii

who's a parent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you think? caller: hi. well you know, i've had kids. my kids, some are grown and some are still in school. so i've watched everything change from a where we're in school to now. my daughter who is 26 was there right before the program hit with the no child left behind which honestly left more children behind than not. when they changed it to core math and all of that stuff, more kids i find struggled. i know my daughter had it easier than my son. he's been to public school, private school and charter school. host: explain what core math is for those that don't know what it means. caller: well, core math to me is just -- they take simple math and make it complicated. you have to break it into 12 steps and of course, they convince the kids they need to do this. you can no longer do two plus two is four.

you have to break it down in 12 different ways and my son says it's to train us for this and that. and i watched an episode on the news once where a parent asked a panel at the department of education or panel of school to try and do core math. she gave them a problem. they all solved it and she said you're auto all wrong and he broke it down for them. and they were like ok, that school doesn't have to do core math anymore. i think that's a really difficult process for a lot of kids especially for the parents because we didn't learn it. and it's very hard for us to help our children. host: we did wrote memorization. your timetable. caller: we learned two plus two is four and you can use your fingers to count, to do your addition. where you're not allowed to do that anymore. it's like my friend who i went to school. we're in our 50's. we had the normal math. and she was helping her child with his heroic. and they -- homework.

they got all the answers wrong because she showed him the way to do it the way she knew how. and it's so hard to help your children with something that's impossible to be learn unless you're super smart and you hire tutors. host: let's take a look at social media. here's a tweet that says since no child left behind, we have been faced with a dumbing down of our children in public schools. we are holding back students that excel in an attempt to equalize learning and here's a text from sal in tampa who says learning law is due to federal involvement and watering down of excellence under the cloud of inclusion. this is a disservice to the students and does not prepare them for the real world. and here's also a text from jim in florida who says getting educated in children's occupation. it should be treated that way. many do. too many treat it like summer

camp. accountability is nearly absent from parents to faculty to boards to students to staff. set expectations for everyone and hold them to it. let's talk to john next who's calling from louisville, kentucky. good morning, john. caller: yes. first of all, i'm from kentucky, which is a -- state and what it's doing, not trying to do, doing, in louisville, kentucky, is building new public schools, which is surprising but that's what they're doing. and the children, they're not -- they're angry and frustrated and scared because they have to do drills like adults don't even have to do when they go to work. learn how to run, learn how to act, and other things from guns, you know, from inside schools

and outside of schools. they're not trying to take public school money to do charter schools instead of building new public schools are redoing them. they choose charter schools which they want to take the public schools taxpayers money and do this with. they need to do more public schools, build more public schools and like i said, the children, adults are going to have to go to work as much as the children go to school and first thing they have to learn is thousand act. host: all right, john. let's talk to an educator in chicago, illinois, joy. good morning. caller: good morning. so i am retired 11 years from school base, but i do have a grandson that i'm raising he's 9

years old and i quite frequently volunteer at his school. the first thing i want to say is the tribalism, children are like sponges. so i wish we can just try as adults to step away from the decisiveness. it is not a republican or democratic issue. but the second thing is i also travel from different countries and i've seen schools systems there as well. and they don't do book reports like they used to. everything is on tablet. they have poor penmanship. they don't know how to write anymore because they're doing

mostly on tablet. host: yeah, they don't learn cursive anymore. what do you think of that, joy? caller: i think it's ridiculous. host: do you think it's necessary? because that's going to take time to learn cursive. caller: well as an occupational therapist, it's a dexterity issue and motorist issue. and all these things help. but they need those skills. and you know, because what happens when those things are not accessible? like tablets, then there has to be another method of communication and basically, that's it. host: yeah, i wonder how they're going to sign their name if they don't know cursive. caller: see? i'm homeschooling next year and i know a lot of other parents are as well. a lot of us are distracted. i want to say that the teachers are so overwhelmed. they're distracted. and i think that social media plays like 80% role in a lot of

it. because kids are drawn to that. and some of the stuff, the content on social media has a lot to do with what's going on in our schools. you know, that's another thing. but diet, like you said the nacho. people don't want to talk about the diet and how different additives affect behavior, but it's factual and the money is not going to -- big money is not going to let you know that. just try it on trial yourself but nachos? no. but that's just basically. there's a myriad of things. host: all right, joy. let's talk to a parent in asheville, north carolina. good morning, allen. caller: good morning. thanks for having me. a couple of thoughts here. i have four kids. and it was kind of interesting because we had one that was super academic all through public school. but basically got her knowledge from, you know, self-taught.

and she hated school and she ended up with perfect s.a.t.'s, never took a test. host: why did she hate school, allen? caller: she was being held back. and what we did was we used the rotary and she was 14. so i got to get out of here. ended up going to rotary exchange. took all her classes in german. just exceptional students. had three other average kids like me, average people that just went out, and they're all doing fine. we had to take the last two out of school, public school. i would like people -- look into a guy name -- an educator and he was new york state's teacher of the year and he went into john taylor gatto. this man was phenomenal and explained the answers that you're looking for today. he died in 2018.

wrote several books. the dumbing down of america. incredible, incredible person that spent so much time trying to say what was wrong with our school system. and i just wanted to mention a couple of quick other things here. going back to be my daughter, we equalized the learning process. she was trying to move ahead. the book she was reading class got called out on. they said no, that's not part of our criteria. that's unbelievable. it's all into memorization. she was very good. she learned how to take a test. host: but, you know, i mean, students that are at that level, is it fair to expect the public schools to be able to address that? i mean, they've got like maybe 26, 30 other kids in school and you have this one exceptional student. it would seem like it would be difficult. caller: to hold those people back -- host: that's true, yeah.

caller: is a mistake because we need easy to people to be able to move ahead and not be frustrated with our schools. host: yeah, for sure. take a look at this is a text we got from charlotte in georgia. i'm a retired educator. i continue to educate by going into the schools of k to 12 as a him. biggest problems in education are salaries. the smart board should be commercial-free and parents who aren't supporting public schools. >> there should be a nationwide ban on cell phone usage in schools. students cannot separate themselves from their cell phones and there are several issues in public schools. one, proliferation of cell phones that are distractions. two, parents that believe that their child can do no wrong.

and three, administrators who love to crucify teachers over the littlest issues. and get over the idea that every child needs to attend college. let's talk to amy, an educator from flushing, new york. caller: hi. i agree with a lot of things they said, especially the cell phone usage. and i also was listening to that idea about handwriting. i have kids who i've been a special educator. i work with children in general ed. i've worked for over 40 years. and we have kids who can't print properly and i have kids who want to learn cursive to be able to write faster and of course, they're never given the chance. but my main point was this the high stakes testing. our schools are judged. our part willers are judged on those schools -- administrators are judged on those scores.

it sacrifices their joy of learning because it's all about what that test this. we get very good scores which is great but i wonder at what cost to the children's education when we're just doing that astonishment i think eliminating the high stakes testing or having testing which would allow -- host: but amy, how can you assess how kids are doing without those tests? don't you need some standard tests? caller: there are a lot of ways to do it. most of it is multiple choice. why is it multiple choice? because it's the easiest to grade but we don't get to see. so we'll ask children, for example, what is the theme of the story? you could argue sometimes on that choice two or three pieces and the children could make a valuable argument. but we're saying no, you have to learn -- this is how the test

does it and the choice is b. so we're not -- these tests are not really assessing the children's knowledge. the only good thing about this test this that everyone's taking the test so there are no fair playing level. but i don't think we really know what the children learn as a result of these tests. host: all right, amy. let's hear from chuck from florida. caller: good morning, america. i hope everybody's doing good. i see three problems with education. one, no parent participation. two, too many damn republicans getting up with false issues on subject like crt. and down here in the state of florida, the biggest problem i see is our governor wants to dictate everything that stop in this state and that ain't right.

host: all right. let's talk to patty next in atlantic city, new jersey. good morning, patty. caller: hi. good morning. there's two points. one about the teachers and one about the curriculum. the students who are out of school from the pandemic for about a year or so, so that's going to cause so much problems coming back. and i feel that, you know, people are really being unfair to teachers. i mean, that's their job. teachers. are like the first line of defense the students come in. they see things from students that parents don't see. and, you know, we have to support our teachers. i think that parents have a right, absolutely to be involved with obviously with their children's schooling, if they're bullying. but bullying takes place at any kind of situation where they're, you know, children who are not

good, bad, whatever. they're going to bully. and that's going to take place anywhere. so i think that parents can constructively do things like to volunteer in their classrooms if they're so concerned, you know, the curriculums, if they have the time, organize a volunteer group of parents that go in and help the teachers because teaching is a very, very hard job. host: all right, patty. well, chuck mentioned governor ron desantis. here he is from a couple of weeks ago talking about the -- why the state's education department rejected a proposal for an ap african american studies course. >> in the state of florida, our education standard is not only don't prevent but they require teaching black history, all the important things that's part of our career curriculum this was a separate course on top of advanced placement credit. we have guidelines and standards in florida.

we want education, not indoctrination. we're going to decline. if it's education, then we will do. this course, so when i heard it didn't meet the standards, it's way more than that. this course on black history, what's one of the lessons about? queer theory. now who would say that an important part of black history is queer theory? that is somebody pushing an agenda on our kids. and so when you look to see they have stuff about establishing prisons, that's a political agenda. so that's the wrong side of the line for florida standards. we believe in teaching kids facts and how to think but we don't believe they should have an agenda imposed on them. when you try to use black history to shoehorn in queer theory, you are clearly trying to use that for political purposes. host: that was governor ron

desan tess -- desantis. here is congressman jamal bowman and he talks about his african american history act legislation from his perspective as a member of congress and as an educator. >> african american history is american history. their history matters and should be taught in our schools and what i experience as a young children and as an educator was the lack of african american history being taught. maybe during black history month, you learn mostly about draft king and you -- dr. king and the trance lebron james slave trade and how my ancestors came here but african american history has a history that

predates trans-atlantic slave trade we had infrastructure in africa. we built the pyramid in africa. that's my ancestral history and it's important for me to know that so i could have the self-esteem and self-worth that i need to do well in school and in life. it appropriates $10 million which is not a large amount of money in washington, $10 million for the smithsonian museum to create curriculum that is accurate, that school districts can come and use for free to tim plenty in their schools. so it's critically important. one of the reasons why we continue to have racial strive,

misunderstanding and issues with public safety is because of lack of knowledge of our history, collective history in our country. host: and we're asking you what you think the biggest issue facing public education is. and next up is kevin who's an educator in marshall, texas. hi, kevin. caller: hi. good morning. good morning. you're doing a great job. host: thank you. caller: so if anything, just listening, i'm learning myself just listening to these callers. and i think we all bring up some really good issues. i would have to say, you know, you notice all the issues of the cell phones, the technology, of bullying, all that stuff does relate to behavior. and i would have to say if there was a number one issue, it would be revolving around behavior. i mean, i've spent so much time

and i'm not saying my children, my students are bad at all. you do have mental health issues. i mean, and the cell phones are great. i mean, it's a good safety for the students but put them up when i tell you to put them up and they won't. host: so kevin, what grade do you teach? caller: well, interesting. i used to teach public school. and that time, is a sophomore english teacher. and now i teach at a charter school and i got ninth graders where i teach a little bit of every subject. host: so do you see a fundamental difference between the public schools and the charter schools? like what do you see as the difference? caller: well, you know, i switched to charter because public school, it gets to be paperwork, you know, and

testing. and paperwork and the testing and what are you going to do about the test something and it was just so much pressure end of testing whereas the charter schooling, you know, if i have a solution, a number one solution, it really does come down to competition. because every child you know, i mentioned, yeah you got bullies and you got kids that won't put up their cell phones and you got kids that just don't want to pay attention. how do you force someone to pay attention? you know, you can't. and so but every student has a different need. and the competition ought to be -- i mean, schools ought to be directed to student needs. i mean, i hear a caller say well, the problem is you're taking away from public school. but public school is so mandated by legislatures, really, you know, that you get this broad wherever we want to teach and

emphasize, that's what we're going to do. whereas it ought to be up to the parent and the school. the school district or just be individual school that decides well, we're going to cater to this kind of student, you know? they need these kind of things. host: let's hear from a parent in calumet city, illinois. reena. caller: i'm a parent and i'm a grant parent. and everyone knows that one through five is where you get your extensive teaching for a child. so if parents are having problems in school in children, it's because of what you are doing at home. it doesn't matter if you're a single parent or if you have a two-parent household. it's up what you're putting inside your child. and what i'm listening to, a lot of these parents don't have control of their home. they let any and everything go on in their homes because i'm a witness. and i have nieces and nephews

and when you have the older adults who try to redirect them and tell them, a lot of that stuff is going to be damaging to their children. you don't let a 2 or 3-year-old play with an ipad for eight hours because it's a babysitting tool because you don't want to be a parent. if you don't want to be a parent, don't have children. there's an option. but when you're a parent, you have to be diligent in your children. you have to be attentive. and i know some of who do work and i did work and i still work. but my household is ran with discipline. i'm not a harsh parent but i do run it with discipline. you will not be on a cell phone for eight hours. you will not do things to disrespect anybody, any race or anything like that. so that's what's happening with parents. you don't have control over your household. and that's the reason why the kids are turning out the way they are. host: all right, reena let's take a look at -- this is from the economic policy institute, a

report that says the pandemic has exacerbated a long-standing national shortage of teachers. it says that the pandemic exacerbated a long-standing shortage of teachers, shortages particularly acute for certain subject areas and some geographic locations. it is especially severe in schools with students of colors or students with low income families the shortage is not a function of an inadequate number of qualified teachers in the u.s. economy. simply, there are too few qualified teachers willing to work at current compensation levels given the increasingly stressful environment facing teachers, what we can do about it according to the economic policy institute to end the teacher shortage, we must address the two most pressing reasons for the shortage -- the long-standing decline in the pay of teachers relative to other workers with a college degree and the high and increasing

levels of stress public school teachers face. martin is next in dayton, ohio, an educator. martin, what do you think? caller: yes. can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i'm a public school teacher in dayton. i teach six through eight english. i live in a pretty good area with a good public school system but i work in a really needy urban district. and the salaries in ohio are decent. if you're in the south or somewhere else, they're god awful. but in ohio, they're pretty good. we have a really good public education system overall, but it's the haves and have-nots. the pandemic really has hurt the needy districts. those kids learn in those four walls and they don't learn much of anything that's useful for them going forward outside of school whereas other kids are learning constantly because

they're going places and things like that. with my own kids, i read to them every day from the time they were 3 to the time they were like 10. so it is a sacrifice but with 30 minutes a day and none of them are geniuses but they all scored above an 80 on the g.d.p. and in teaching, i hear data-driven all the time and i call it data dribble. there's an education on industrial complex. so, for example, there's a study program that's the latest thing they're rolling out and they have an excerpt of the giver. like a one-page and i'm like no. and i used for like -- to burn in my fireplace because i'm going to read the book the giver with my kids. i'm not going to read an excerpt with them. so there's a lot of educational industrial complex. people that are supposed to be experts trying to tell teachers how to do it. so i listen. and i find good authors and get texts and i also listen to people like kelly gallagher who

are still classroom teachers and they also do some p.e.d. the woke stuff is just a distraction. the cell phones are a real problem, especially in those -- host: martin, we're asking the biggest issue, not every single issue facing public schools. but thanks for calling in. let's take a look at social media. jim mcdonald on facebook says this. funding and equality. teachers are being asked to do much more than teach because schools do not have adequate social services support. schools in poor per communities suffer more that when those services are needed more the answer is not to drain more funding to support alternatives. and lynn on twitter says parents need to spend a week in their child's classroom to see what is being taught. also parents need to stop going to school board meetings if all they are going to do is threat then school board members. and another tweet says the

emphasis on rotate learning as compared to critical thinking and learning how to discover, verify, implement, and apply such revelations in their everyday life. ultimately, education should teach children how to think, not what to think. let's talk to otis next in los angeles, california. a parent. good morning, otis. caller: good morning. how are you this morning? host: i'm doing ok. caller: great. listen, my biggest observation what i've learned in taking away from this, i raise addison who is a three-time scholar athlete as well as when he finished his career in sports, he came home and got his master's degree. and one thing that his mother and i implemented with him was discipline. and we controlled the internet and i truly believe that is two of the biggest things that is hurting our kids today, is the lack of discipline and the overexposure of the internet. the internet was pushed down on

us all at one time and we never got a chance to filter it out or say to ourselves what is good and what is bad for ourselves as well as our children. and then we remove discipline away. when did discipline become the enemy? you have to have discipline and it has to be a cause and a reaction to your actions. you can't go out here and expect a teacher to educate kids come in and they have no discipline these kids have no fear of what they're going to do when they're being in class and being disruptive and it makes it very difficult for an educator to reach out to the overall when they're basically sitting down telling the kids to stop talking, close your cell phones, etc., etc., etc. so my observation is the lack of discipline in the homes as well as the overexposure. though internet because i truly believe that the internet has now become the babysitter. or therefore the mother or a father. host: got it c.j. is an educator

in atlanta, georgia. c.j., what do you think? caller: i have education at three levels. i have absolutely zero hope for public education in this country. the same issue that we're fighting about today, we were fighting about over 30 years ago when i was a student in school. and i think the problem is centered on this. we have allowed fumble education to be grounded in capitalism. there's more money in failure than it is in success. we need to get rid of high stakes testing. we need to make sure that we are high fully staffing our teachers and we need to give the teachers the lead. they know how to teach kids. they know exactly what they need to do in order to take our kids to heights of success. we don't need to limit our teachers. we need to make sure that they have all of the tools and all of the resources and let them take

the lead in the classroom. until then, i don't see education going anywhere but where it is today. and that's really nowhere. just a back and forth. host: all right. june is next. a parent in st. petersburg, florida. hi, june. caller: oh, hi. thank you so much for taking my call. i love your program. and i'm a parent and a grandparent and i'm also 77 years old. and i have three and three quarters -- hello? should i hang up the phone? host: no, no. you're good. keep going. caller: ok. i'm 77. i've been a parent and also a grandparent and i spent time at home and time in the workforce. and the bottom line of all of this has to be something called our workforce. and the bottom line with the workforce that i have seen because i've had professional jobs. i've worked for the government

at professional jobs. i've worked the private sector. the bottom line is that the majority of the jobs out there are specialized and they're representative. you're doing the -- repetitive. and you really just don't need all the education that you're told that you had to have. as a matter of fact, i was listening with the national subcommittee hearing the other day, the on the same subject. i can repeat to you what some of our congress folks were saying. they were saying the same thing. you know, they want to push more people into the community colleges and, you know, they feel that all these students are coming out of school. they can't get jobs and they're not there. they're not getting paid what they should be getting paid. and etc., etc. so the thing is why aren't students knohese things in advance? so let me go back real quick to i'm graduating from high school. i knew in high school already.

i knew in junior high i wanted to be a nurse. right? so i took biology, chemistry and if isics in high school. right? ok. so i'm graduating. what did our teachers not do? they did not tell us that it was the american association in those days that determine all the education requirements and the professional workforce requirements in the major workforce areas. so all i had to do is get on the phone, call up the american nursing association. and they're going to tell me there are two-year hospital nursing programs which is the same thing today, all right? and -- host: june, we're running out of time. sorry to cut you off. but coming up next on "washington journal" isra regina, director of the addiction & public policy initiative at the o'neal institute. she will talk about how government and state are responding to the fentanyl crisis.

and later, geoff kabaservice discusses his podcast, "the vital center." stay with us.

♪ >> american history tv. i look back to the impeachment trial of president clinton. lectures in history records university professor, has major legislative achievement exploring the american story every weekend -- march online at c-span.org. >> in 1848 husband and wife

disguised as a wealthy disabled white man -- all while trying to conceal their identity. their harrowing journey north -- on c-span's q and a. you can listen on the c-span now app. preorder your for the 118th congress -- preorder your copy for early

spring delivery. every person help support our nonprofit operations at c-spanshop.org. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. i'm joined by regina labelle. she was former acting director of the white house office of national drug policy what are opioids. guest: opioids are a class of drug. there are naturally occurring opioids like poppies that create heroin. what we are talking about here

is illicitly manufactured fentanyl. fentanyl that is prescribed by a physician for pain is a very powerful opioid that is really lifesaving for people. it is a drug used in cancer care to relieve pain. it is illicitly manufactured fentanyl. illicitly manufactured fentanyl is coming into the united states from mexico now. a few years ago it was coming directly from china by right now it is primarily coming from mexico. host: i want to remind viewers if you would like to call in and ask a question there make a comment about this topic, you can do that. our lines will be rub by region. if you are in the eastern time zones or central time zones, call us (202) 748-8000.

if you live in the pacific or mountain time zones, call (202) 748-8001. if you have been impacted by the opioid crisis in any way, you can call (202) 748-8002. the president highlighted the crisis in this state of the union address. [video clip] 0 joining us tonight -- >> joining us tonight as a father named doug. he wrote us a letter about his courageous daughter courtney. he shared a story all too familiar to americans. courtney discovered pilsen high school. she spiraled -- pills in high school. she spiraled into addiction. she died from overdose at just 20 years old.

doug said there is no worse pain. there family has -- their family has turned pain to purpose. he told us he wants to start a journey towards american recovery. doug, we are with you. fentanyl is giving --killing more than 70 million americans every year. let's launch a major surge to stop fentanyl production and more drug bit action machines, to stop pills at the border. [applause] host: regina, what do you think of what he said and the fact that it was included in the state of the union? guest: it is very significant.

the state of the union address is something that advocates, people who work in the administration are always trying to get their piece in, their policy amplified in the speech. the fact that he not only talked about it, but he talked to the stigma attached to addiction. he talked about in the last estate of the union as well. for people who have suffered the loss of a love one, it can be devastating personally, but the stigma that is so attached to addiction and parents like the one that was in the box, they feel often they are to blame somehow, and i think the main message to parents is that you are not to blame. this is horrible. 100,000 overdose deaths. 70,000 involve illicitly manufactured fentanyl.

this is an issue that could come home to anyone. the steps he outlined in the speech and the other materials they put out outline a much more expansive approach. there is not one solution to this issue. host: i want to show you something from the cdc describing fentanyl and overdose. it says thi, even in" small doses it can be deadly. -- this, "even in small doses it can be deadly. it is nearly impossible to tell if drugs have been laced with fentanyl, unless you test your drugs with fentanyl test strips." how do people protect themselves? guest: one of the first steps i took was to overturn the federal ban on purchasing fentanyl test strips.

why would there have -- host: why would there have been a ban on it in the first place? guest: there was a concern it would enable drug use. given the urgency of the situation it was important for the federal government to send a message that these drugs are dangerous. you do not know what you are getting. if you test your drugs to know what is in it, you can prevent overdose deaths. tha wast one of the first steps that we took. there are still some steps that mms paraphernalia, but states like -- that ban them as paraphernalia. host: here is from the nih as far as statistics go, this is the national drug involved overdose deaths number among all ages and it is split up by gender.

this is from 1999. this line is male. this line is female. this line is going up substantially for males. we are taking your questions about the fentanyl crisis. let's start with jimmy. >> hi. what i wanted to know is was illegal fentanyl coming in under -- coming into the country under the trump administration and what are the amounts then compared to now? guest: we have had a fentanyl issue since 2015. increasing numbers of overdose deaths involved fentanyl since then. fentanyl is not -- there is a lot of attention being paid to it, but it is something that has been with us for a number of

years, including in past administrations. host: -- administrations. host: cj is next in new york. caller: do your guest, miss labelle. dealers want to string you along, make sure you are good and hooked. they do not necessarily want to kill you. can you, whatever, just get that thought -- expand on that. when i was a kid growing up in what would be called the hood,, i guess, if you heard about somebody diane down some alley, it would be -- die yang down some -- dying down some alley, it would be like "i want some of

that." it was drug fiend behavior. this new element that seems to be affecting young kids in the suburbs and, for lack of a better word, a lot of white kids -- host: all right, cj, let's get a response. guest: there are a couple of pieces here. i think the first issue is what you laid out is drug trafficking networks. there is the retail side, which is the drug dealer on the corner or over the internet who is selling you something. that is one piece. cartels are transnational criminal organizations that do not just traffic in drugs. they traffic in fuel, people. this is a much bigger issue. that has resulted in these stronger and stronger, more

powerful forms of drugs. the last piece you raised about social media and adolescents have increased rate of overdose deaths in the last few years at the same time that their drug use has leveled off and that is primarily because they are getting fentanyl in pressed pills. they think they're getting something different and really they are getting fentanyl impressed pills. -- fentanyl in pressed pills. there are a lot of elements to the questions you asked. host: explain more about why the sudden increase lately in the last few years. is it that more fentanyl is coming into the country? why? guest: we started seeing an increase in fentanyl overdose deaths and fentanyl over ability in 2015. since then it has taken off.

-- fentanyl availability in 2015. since then it has taken off. these are synthetics made in the lab as opposed to a cocoa field or poppy fields. it is harder to see a lab. host: it is easier to mass-produce. guest: it is much easier to mass-produce. it is cheap and potent. it started with the chemicals coming from china, going to mexico, being mixed. that is what we are seeing today. a couple of years ago we were seeing the fentanyl coming directly from china into the united states. that has changed. host: why is it going through mexico now? guest: number one, china scheduled all fentanyl and also the united states has had

fentanyl scheduling for a couple of years. there was a lot more attention being paid to ports of entry, the postal service. these truck traffic and networks adapt and change, regardless -- drug trafficking networks adapt and change. host: here's an article from cbs news, with the article title " fentanyl seizures rise." it said that the spike in overdose deaths fueled and national conversation and a redoubling of the government's efforts to curb smuggling. 80% of the opioid-related overdose deaths involved fentanyl. most of the fentanyl is being smuggled into the united states in vehicles driven by american citizens. they have turned opioids into a

clandestine nine industry, according to the dea. it says that since president biden took office republicans have sought to link the spike in deaths with the record number of migrants who have entered at the southern border. the ride and administration's handling -- the biden administration's handling has allowed fentanyl to be smuggled into the united states at higher rates. debate over how the deadly drug is being smuggled was on debate earlier this week. interesting the comment that it is usually through the cars of american citizens that it is coming in. do we know that for sure? caller: here is-- guest: here's the challenge when we are trying to determine how much is coming into the united states. we are seizing more.

seizure is not flow. what is coming in is hidden. that is why it is called smuggling. what we are getting between ports of entry is very small compared to what is coming in in the ports of entry in vehicles. it is often conflated with people walking across the border and there smuggling it in. that is not what cbp says. host: let's talk to wayne in brentwood, tennessee. he has been impacted by the fentanyl crisis. caller: last year 2 of my cousins were found. when was already dead and one would soon die within 6 hours from fentanyl poising. they were not -- fentanyl poisoning. they were not young people.

they were older white males in a rural area who, i am sure, got the fentanyl in a pressed pill form and thought it was something else. their dear mother was not able to redirect them. they succumbed to it. i have a couple of comments about why we have a problem and a solution. there were 2 events that were announced this week. they found a press mill. in that press mill, they were caught -- 5 people were caught and they were out of jail within 24 hours. we do not have an adequate penalty for an accessory to murder, which pressing pills that contain fentanyl is an

accessory to murder. any american caught bringing fentanyl across the border, we should expand the accessory to murder charge and make it very, very serious. we have an open door in our criminal justice system, and it doesn't matter that they are white, it doesn't matter if they are black. let their actions have serious consequencess, and it will slow them down. if one pill came across the border and killed one american that was smuggled not through a port, that is serious and should not be ignored. we this last week, we have blimps that use infrared detection and can detect smugglers coming across the border. for some reason the biden administration grounded those. it is all a matter of optics.

host: blaine, let's get a -- wayne, let's get a response. guest: i'm truly sorry for the loss of your cousins. you raise several important issues, and one is that it is not just about fentanyl. we have an addiction crisis in this country. it is primarily driven by alcohol. we have more alcohol involved overdose deaths. it is the totality of substance use disorder in this country, untreated addiction. 90% of people in this country do not get treatment who needed. only about 10% get it. that is why a lot of the work i have done, a lot of the work the federal government has done focuses on that totality of the issue. how do we prevent substance use from ever occurring. how do we expand evidence-based treatment?

how do we support people in recovery ? there is an entire system that has to be developed in this country and infrastructure that helps people get the treatment that they need and also at the same time looking at the issues of counter narcotics trafficking. host: in case somebody is dealing with addiction right now, is there someplace they can go for help? guest: hhs'substance abuse and mental health administration has a hotline you can call. the treatment finder. that is the number that is appear. it is an anonymous -- that is up here. it is an anonymous line. i would encourage people to carry naloxone. naloxone is an overdose

antidote. you can get it in most places in the country in pharmacies. if you are in washington dc, you call or text 888-811. text "live long d.c." and you can get it for free. that is part of the strategy. host: let's talk to ruth in palm harbor florida -- palm harbor, florida. good morning. caller: i have been using fentanyl for 15 years. i used the patches. they are 25 microgram patches.

i can change them out every 48 to 72 hours, if i need to. i have quite a few issues with the knees, hips, back. if it were not for fentanyl, i would not be able to get up and move around. on top of that, i take codeine, tylenol with codeine. i used to get everything in a 3 month supply. go to the doctor, get my check up, go get my hearing test to make sure i am -- urine test to make sure i am not doing anything else. in this whole situation i cannot drink wine, beer, use any alcohol, and if they find,

anything else ini my system have to be clean for three months before i can get back on the drugs again. all of this to prevent fentanyl abuse, the people who needed, it is hurting us. host: do you find it hard to get fentanyl now? caller: yes. now i have to go every month to my doctor, my pain control dr. and get it. as opposed to what -- when i was getting a three month supply. i have to make more trips to the doctor every year. host: what do you think? guest: it is important we distinguish between the pain treatment, which is what he is talking about, and a ddiction. too often we have

conflated that 2. people with pain management challenges have to be treated appropriately and people with addiction have to be treated appropriately. our system does not train doctors in identifying early signs of addiction, so that is a challenge that we as a nation and medical societies across the country need to address. host: linda is next in ogden, utah and you have been impacted by the crisis, linda. caller: correct, i have been. my son has taken fentanyl. he has taken other drugs as well. i am calling into let people be aware of a major problem. he went to a drug rehab center paid by the state. supposedly they were giving him

drugs. medicare and medicaid would not pay for it anymore. the halfway house would not take him because the drugs that the rehab center gave him -- i had to bring him back to the house and i had to deal with him getting off all these drugs. be very careful with the rehab centers. he was more addicted with drugs coming out than coming in. i deal with drugs on a daily basis, and it. is the worst thing ever guest: i'm -- i deal with drugs on a daily basis, and it is the worst thing ever. guest: i'm sorry. i understand the challenges you are facing. the gold standard of treatment for rope you avoid use disorder --opioid use disorder is

treatment with medication. we know from evidence and research that overdose deaths can be reduced, if someone uses one of the three fda approved medications for opioid use disorder. that is not generally accepted, although it is the gold standard. it is not generally accepted that you should use medication for opioid use disorder plus counseling. it is the same as if someone had diabetes. it is not often accepted, and sometimes people are told they have to get off of them in order to get other services. host: we have some tweets that have come in. "i get the people who unaware of the danger took what was prescribed by the doctor. what i don't get is people who know it is a death sentence but still try it, get addicted

today." guest: addiction is a combination of environment as well as genetics. if someone had trauma in their background, they may be more likely to develop a substance use disorder. it is really important that we look at it as it is, which is as a disease that could happen to anyone of us. host: mary is next in naples, florida. caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. my question is what can the average person do? i was at the dentist 2 weeks ago and they gave me ibuprofen for pain. i had surgery. i got a note that said, "we will not give you any opioids." then i got a bag with some

powder fow how to properly dispose of your -- for how to properly dispose of your medication. that is great. is that just a way to raise awareness for people going to doctors who are careful about prescribing any painkillers? are there other things that an average american who got their tooth pulled can do? i don't know anybody i can personally help, but i want to be part of the solution here.the dentist 's office raised my awareness about this. when i saw your show this morning, it really got me thinking. thank you. host: guest: -- guest: many doctors will give these packets you can dispose your drugs and, because what-- in, because what we found

previously is that the majority of people who are misusing substances were getting them from family and friends. often times we keep these drugs in our homes. if you get an opioid prescribed to you, you might keep it and use it later. what you should do is dispose of it properly. they have disposable bags. in states like oregon, you can dispose of your prescription drugs in a pharmacy. often there are drop boxes in police stations where you can drop off your prescription opioids. that is one way to reduce the supply of prescribed opioids in circulation. i alsot helps to reduce opioids in the water system. host: should you be wary of taking an opioid that is prescribed to you for pain? guest: it is important you talk to your doctors.

pain management, i am a doctor -- i am a lawyer not a doctor, so i will not get into talking about pain management because that is malpractice on my part. if you have a sub -- history of substance abuse, tell your doctors. host: st. helena, california, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wonder what we as parents can do to talk to her children about sentinel and any other drugs -- sentinel and any other drugs -- fentanyl and other drugs. guest: parents play an important role. they have an important role in educating their kids. we think as parents that our kids do not listen to us, that there is research to show that they do. substance abuse and mental

health administration has some tools you can use. one is called "they talk, you listen," and it is about alcohol abuse. as far as fentanyl, there are two important pieces. first, make sure you are paying attention to the needs of your child. this has been a tough row for a lot of kids with covid and lockdowns. kids are showing a lot of mental health concerns, so talk to your kid about how they feel. if they need help, get the mental health counseling. that is easier said than done. pay attention to the needs of your kid. the second step is social media is where some of these kids are getting substances that they are misusing.

that is where they are getting pressed pills. it can be lethal. talk to your kids. go to samsa's website for prevention tips. lastly, monitor social media for your dependents. host: hawk says, " how many people become disabled because of overdosing? it seems costly to society to withhold test strips to protect our citizens." guest: our metric is overdose deaths. we do not have good data, although the administration is doing more to identify overdoses generally, and we know how many people have been affected. we do not know exactly how many people have overdosed and survived. if you have overdosed once, you are more at risk of having it

subsequent overdose death. withholding test strips is something we feel very strongly about. host: krystal is next in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i appreciate everything you are talking about. i remember years ago when inner-city people were dying from crack cocaine, and there was not this big uproar. i was thinking, " maybe they are black." all of a sudden when fentanyl started impacting upper-class and middle-class people, you have treatments. could you speak about african-americans dying from crack cocaine? where was this uproar?

what happened then? all of a sudden it became such a big thing. i remember the slogan george bush came up with. "say no to drugs." what happened to that? if people do not use drugs, the people bringing it over here won't have any use. we won't use them. when did all of this uproar come from. when white people found drugs? what happened? guest: crystal, thank you. i cannot agree more that there should have been a different approach in the crack cocaine issues when that was affecting different communities. one thing is that we still need to remove the crack powder cocaine sentencing disparity. if you are caught with crack, you are -- that is

something i testified on before the senate to couple years ago. we are hopeful that will be passed this year to get rid of that sentencing disparity, which is based in the issues you raised. washington dc has one of the highest rates of overdose deaths in the country. it is impacting primarily black men ages 50 to 55. the increasing rates of black and indigenous people overdose deaths is concerning. host: joe is in new orleans, louisiana. caller: the previous caller express to my sentiment about the use of fentanyl, and how there seems to be a disparity between the legal ramifications of using that drug as opposed to crack cocaine, an i too --

this morning you have given plenty of information on where to go to seek help but, back in the 80's, the government placed crack cocaine into the black community. the only recourse the black community got was jail time. it is only when it affects white communities that the government is in an uproar as to how to prevent the drugs from getting into the country or giving out medicines to help you if you do get an overdose. it is unfair. host: any further comment on that, regina? guest: we are seeing a big increase in overdose deaths in

the black community. the disparity issues are always with us and it is something that needs to be addressed. host: let's talk to james who has been impacted by the crisis in sherman, texas. caller: the way i have been impacted is i had an injury in my early 20's. i was in pain treatment and have been for 35 years. the point is fentanyl is very concentrated. getting a bad portion of the bag -- fentanyl has been around a long time, and i have been using it as part of pain management. previously, my congressman was congressman fergus. i remember when the rescheduling of narcotics was being debated in committee back in 2014.

he commented how will rescheduling impact legitimate pain patients. you can look. it is almost like the inconvenient truth about climate change. you see the hockey stick of co2. there is a hockey stick of overdoses and it started 2015 right after the rescheduling. in a way, the government has played a large role, government policy. rescheduling these drugs not only affected legitimate pain patients who know have to spend four times as much a year -- now have to spend four times as much a year. guest: again, i think we do not do enough to adequately manage

pain. that is something that is an important issue that has to be addressed. what he is talking about is the rescheduling of oxycontin several years ago, which drove an increase in heroin availability, and that gave way to fentanyl. it is never going to be just one thing. it is always the balloon effect. you have to have a comprehensive addiction treatment system that looks at preventing substance abuse from ever happening and helping people enter and sustain their recovery. host: rebecca in california, you are next. caller: good morning. i wanted to make a comment. around 2007 they were handing out painkillers like they were m&ms and millions of people got strung out of all ages.

a couple years ago they totally stopped. in the medical profession stopped prescribing and cut people off without a lot of options to withdraw. again, all different ages. i feel the medical profession owns some of the responsibility in this, which created people to find other options in order to get there " == -- get their "fix." i am a little upset with the medical profession and how they cut off millions of people. this one young man who was before me said it is triple the amount of cost. not only that, but there is no guarantee a physician will prescribe it anymore. thank you for this conversation.

it is very important. host: we do not -- guest: we do not do enough in this country to manage pain properly. we do not teach in our medical schools about addiction. they may get a week's special session but we do not train our medical professionals about how to treat addiction. host: don is in palm desert, california. din you -- don, you are next. caller: i heard you talking earlier about finding antidotes for the people using these narcotics. don't you think that might encourage their use? guest: i was mentioning the locks on, which reverses an overdose -- mentioning naloxone, which reverses an overdose. you cannot help someone enter treatment, if they are dead.

it is a chronic brain disease. the diagnostic and statistical manual identifies it as you do something regardless of the consequences. that is the most chronic stage. it is humane and evidence-based to provide people with naloxone to reverse their overdose deaths. host: what about treatments for addiction, pharmaceuticals for that? caller: there are -- guest: there are 3 fda approved medications. the ones that have the most evidence behind them are effective. they reduce overdose deaths. they help people sustain recovery. htey are not -- they are not as available as they should be at this point.

we are getting to the point where it will be the standard of care. host: let's talk to carol next in waterford works, new jersey. caller: my question is why is it that all of these treatment centers are basically for drug addiction are in low income areas. we get more drug people in the area. i don't understand that. i don't understand the fact that we get young people selling small amounts of drugs and nothing ever happens, but we can catch kingpins in mexico and everyplace else. there has to be a kingpin in the united states. why are drug companies fined and not going to jail for producing and increasing the amount of drugs that are given? guest: thanks, carol.

the last piece. there has been litigation brought against pharmaceutical companies for their role in marketing prescription opioids that has led to a lot of overdose deaths across the country. they have paid out finds. as you said -- out fines. there were a couple of people a few years ago who were incarcerated. for the most part, the sackler family, other pharmaceutical company operators, they are paying out fines. that money is going out to states and local governments. that money is going to go over 18 years. i am hopeful that we will see the type of addiction systems in this country that we need.

host: regina lobel, -- regina labelle, thank you so much for joining us. still ahead on washington journal, it is je politicalff -- it is jeff, political studies director. but first we will have open phones so: now -- s call -- so call in now. >> there are a lot of places to get political information but only on c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you stand on the

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host: welcome back to washington journal. it is open forum. i will be interested to hear what you have to say about the news of the day, about anything relating to politics or public policy. first thing i want to show you first is news that came out yesterday about the air force shooting down another object, this time over the coast of alaska. here is the new york times that says this -- " object downed over alaska by the military. u.s. officials not sure if it was a balloon. the pentagon said it shot down an unidentified object over frozen waters near alaska on friday less than a week after a fighter jet brought down a chinese spy balloon over the atlantic in an episode that increased tensions between d.c.

and beijing. the object was traveling at an altitude that made it a potential threat to civilian aircraft. the friday shootdown showed president biden taking direct and forceful action more quickly than last week when some republican lawmakers criticized him over letting the spy balloon linger for several days before destroying it. that period of observation allowed u.s. officials to collect intelligence about the spy balloon while in the episode -- the spy balloon while in the episode on friday officials seemed unsure about what they had shot down. john kirby provided a little bit more detail on the downing of the high-altitude object flying over alaska. [video clip] >> another balloon was shot down

today. who owns this? what was the circumstances? was the president directly involved in ordering this? is wreckage being recovered? >> i am going to try. yes, the president was involved in this decision. he you ordered it at the recommendation of pentagon leaders. he wanted it taken down, and they did it. the pentagon will have more to say about the details of this later on this afternoon. it was only within the last hour. we are calling it to an object because that is the best description we have right now. we do not know who owns it, whether it is state owned or corporate owned door privately owned --owned or private owned. we don't know. we don't understand the full

purpose. we do not have any information that would confirm a stated purpose for the subject. we do expect to be able to recover the debris since it fell, not only within our territorial space, but on what we believe is frozen water, so the recovery effort will be made. we are hopeful it will be successful, then we can learn more about it. >> does it appear like the chinese aircraft? >> it was much smaller than the spy balloon we took down last saturday. the way it was described to me was roughly the size of a small car as opposed to a payload that was 2 or three buses-sized. much smaller and significantno

-- and no significant policy. >> it is now --is it now the policy of the united states that if an unidentified aircraft is over u.s. airspace that the president will shoot it down? >> the president will always act in the best interest of the american people. host: john kirby talking about the shooting down yesterday of an object that was off the coast of alaska. it is open forum. we will start taking your calls. andrew fall river, massachusetts. caller: i have a couple things to talk about quickly. the balloon -- i looked at it. if you think about it, what if he shot that over the united states and there was a chemical agent in that balloon?

it wouldn't kill you automatically, but it would filter down the food chain. i think biden did the right thing by shooting it over the ocean, so if there was any chemical in that balloon, it did not fall on our crops or on our people. now the drug issue, i was born severely dyslexic and autistic. all of the drugs i am on now, i was taking that junk. i took stuff to keep me from drinking. i had it written down. in the process the doctors hopped me up, and i died because the drug to keep me from drinking, they did not see it,

missed it or whatever and they gave me opioids, and they died -- and i died on the table, and they called me a junkie. i am a drunk and proud. it has got to start from congress. push these drugs out into the open and get people addicted. host: let's go to ed in georgia on the republicans' line. caller: i'm the kind of person who likes to find solutions. i would like to talk on 2 subjects. the waitresses and waiters that the government wants to go after, i want to say to all of

the waitresses and waiters out there, tell your customers "please do not give me a tip. give me a cash gift." that way the irs cannot touch it. you can have up to $17,000, if it is a gift. when people, mostly democrats, talk about affordable housing, here is my take. we have 50 states. in all 50 states, each state has its own building code. hte house has to be -- the house has to be built in a certain way. that makes it unaffordable. if you want affordable housing, buy yourself a tent. host: leo in illinois. good morning. caller: i was poisoned by a drug, and i am dying from it.

i was poisoned by at 4.5 years ago. they gave me a whole iv full. i bought a -- brought a bottle into the emergency room and told them, "i cannot have this ever," and they gave me a whole iv full. you cannot sue a doctor for malpractice and negligence anymore today because no lawyer will take your case. i filed a complaint to the fda, and they didn't do anything about it either. then i file a claim here in illinois to the medical

caller: hello. sorry. we are having trouble hearing you. all right.

host: try to call back. the line is not good. theodore and miami. republican. the morning. caller: i want to talk about what governor desantis was talking about in regards to education and adoption. i hope she doesn't go the way up to santos takes away things that we need to teach, such as american history, slavery, and stop saying that we are indoctrinating our kids because we are not going there. we are just not. we hope we don't go that way, and she is just a goner. host: ryan in phoenix we had --.

caller: i appreciate you guys. good show. as usual. it hurts my heart, and sympathy goes out to the earthquake over there in turkey and syria. the ukrainian war and human tragedy and suffering. we have a ufo getting shot down in alaska, and that is pretty crazy. left to see what that is all about. strange days, indeed. there is a fentanyl crisis. good calls on that. a lot of callers want to deal with the crack epidemic. i live in a major city, and i see a lot of black folks smoking fentanyl. it is across all orders now. it is becoming a problem for all people. it is flooded.

the country is flooded with fentanyl. when people bring up crack versus cocaine, they need to understand that crack was a much more dangerous and violent threat than cocaine. the sentencing deadlines -- guidelines were different back then. be open minded. it is not always because of race. host: all right. let's look at what the general said at the pentagon press briefing about the shootdown over alaska. >> to add to information already provided, earlier, by the white house, at the direction of the president of the united states, aircraft assigned to command took down a high-altitude airborne object at the northern coast of alaska, at 145 p.m. eastern standard time today. in u.s. sovereign air force base

over territorial water. the aerospace defense command detected object on ground radar and identify the object for aircraft. the object was flying at an altitude of 40,000 feet and pose a reasonable threat. u.s. northern command was beginning recovery operations. u.s. northern command in alaska coordinated the operation with assistance from the alaska international guard. federal aviation and the bureau of investigation. we have no further details, including capabilities, purpose and origin. it is about the size of a small car, so not similar in size or shape to the high-altitude surveillance balloon that was taken down off of the coast of south carolina on february 4. host: open forum on all -- washington journal. we are taking your calls.

next is catherine in st. joseph, michigan. republican. caller: good morning. yes. go back to china. i think we need to consider what were doing and cut ties with china. the fentanyl came from china. how much more do we have to endure? host: when you say cut ties, what do you mean from china? caller: we need to manufacture ourselves. why do we need to count on china for what we need in the united states? we have people out of work it --. host: it is a lot cheaper. that is why. caller: then we have to go back to work, and have people go back to work and make a good living so they don't have to be on welfare, and they don't have to

depend on the government to support them. we have restaurants in st. joseph that are on an unlimited schedule, and some of them cannot get people to work. it is ridiculous, and it is all over. jobs are there. we need to stop contributing to the problem. we need to start telling people that if you don't work, you are not going to have food on the table or a place to sleep. pay your bills. host: let's hear from daniel next. hagerstown, maryland. hello. caller: good morning. i just want a precursor. i am a 67-year-old black man, born in baltimore, maryland. i want to respond to some of the calls, and i've heard a couple of women who were talked about

crack in the community and that sort of thing, and how this is an opioid issue. it is not. i still live around baltimore, and i am in baltimore every day. also, one of the things they talked about was how the laws were changed, and how they didn't do anything about the crack epidemic. they did actually did. what happen was al sharpton, jesse jackson and a bunch of other black leaders went to washington to have them change the laws, so they talk about how the laws, they are complaining about how the laws for cocaine are lower than the census for locating cane -- cocaine them for crack. black leaders went to the lobby and they spent a lot of their

time and capital, lobbying congress to change the law. now, those same people are saying that there is a problem for the law because crack, and they are saying it is a racial issue. it's not a racial issue. my final comment is simply this. if you drop a bunch of bibles in any city, people would choose to pick them up and read them. it's the same thing with drugs. just because a drug is in the community, that doesn't mean that people have to take advantage and use that drug. host: all right. another article to share with you from the new york times. this is from a headline -- the fbi found one classified document after searching mike pence's home. the former vice president agreed to the search after discussions with the justice department.

anthony is in detroit michigan, independent. hello. caller: good morning, c-span. i watched the state of the union like most people this weekend. i watched and it is like a cold to me. no matter if you are democrat or republican, i see a big colts, and they all just believe in something about our country that is like an eighth grade democratic force, but i don't think all of the elements are there. there is not much faith that people have in the institution, so they have to make it look legitimate, but. host: you don't think the united states is democratic? caller: not very. we only have two political parties, and we have 330 million people. our media is a little biased. c-span got a little bit of a demographic problem. i think you admit it is so early

in the morning, but i just think all of our institutions in the capital right behind you there are lacking in credibility. host: all right. mike, republican, north carolina. hello. caller: how are you? host: i'm good. caller: i'm calling about fentanyl and i want to reiterate with the lady said, and she sounded like a nurse. it is not just a medical industry. it is the government. they created this crisis monster when they cut off medicine to the people that were taking it, and the people who are abusing the pills on the street. you bought a pill and you knew what was in it. but shutting that down, it created the pressed steel, and that is why people are dying. it is solely in the hands of the medical industry, and the u.s. government and the way they handle the situation. that's all.

thank you. host: lonnie in south carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. i'm not on that fentanyl thing, but i want to ask you a question. on black history month, desantis wants to cut out the history from 1970 and before. he wants to cut out all black history why isn't he saying anything about the kkk. he does want to cut that out. the confederacy, he doesn't want to cut that out. he doesn't want to cut out truman or roosevelt. it sounds racist. he is trying to sweep everything black people have done under the rug. what about booker t. washington. we don't learn about him anymore. host: when you say you want to get everything 1970 and before, where do you get it? caller: it was on cnn and msnbc.

if you look it up, you will see where desantis is saying no history -- are they will seat -- teaching history from 1970 and beyond. perhaps it is in mississippi or alabama, but just with different names. >> he wants to cut out lack history and leave white history front and center. he doesn't want you to teach about the holocaust or lb gt q but he wants to talk to a confederate generals and women of the confederacy, and it's just racist. blatant racism. host: let's talk to brad in kentucky. independent. caller: i think you unfairly editorialized a minute ago. he said we make goods in china because it is cheaper, but i don't think you meant to say that because we do so and we

lose our industrial base in this country. we empower a tour tally terrien regime and persecute christians. it is its own people and slave labor camps and stuff. the goods may be cheaper, but that is still a price. host: that is a good point. is that it? carolyn in georgia, republican. hello. caller: good morning. i am calling because i heard the commentary from different ones this morning, and they are saying that we had a difficult time during the crack time. what went on is that a lot of lives may have been saved because of crack, even though they got locked up and not only just african-americans, but their lives may have been saved from different ethnic groups. they may have had save lives, but when you look at the past,

you have to work on the present. nobody on african-americans now, and you have a 50-year-old black man dying and dropping dead in washington dc, and across the country. this is what you have to concentrate on. this system isn't doing anything were these people are incarcerated, and when they are on drugs, oftentimes, some of them go through a system, and they don't make mandatory demands on them. that is a problem, and also, on this history thing, by not being taught, i believe it would be good if history teachers were on, and they made some literature to explain to the american people that black history is taught throughout the history book and through the literature book. all of the black man these people are talking about are in the history book it science book, social studies book. art, all of that.

pe. they need to let teachers talk about it, rather than have people who may not be teaching talk about that. host: one more call from bill in new york for democrats. caller: good morning. i want to thank you for allowing us to have our opinions. we need to really start looking at what were doing, as far as being american. the definition of being american. also justice. the meaning of justice guarantees that no one is mistreated. it guarantees that those people will have help. that is a quote. i also want to just say that why haven't the smartest white people in the smartest black people, why haven't they dealt

or ended with this racism thing? i don't get it. host: what do you mean ending it? caller: why haven't they dealt with it? when you look at it, white people say it. so they really should be trying to fix it. we keep going back to race, and this not about race, but they say it's about race. host: how do you suggest they fix it? caller: by implementing a system of justice about what i just said. no guarantee that no one has been mistreated. guaranteeing that they will have the most help, the most constructive help. caller: all right. host: that's all the time we have for open forms. thank you for calling in. up next is the political studies director at the sonnen center, and he will discuss his podcast

called the vital center. we will be right back. ♪

host: welcome back to washington journal. it is our weekly spotlight on podcasts, and this week we have jeff. he is the host of the vital center podcast. he is also a political studies director at the center. welcome to the program. guest: glad to be here.

host: let's talk about your center. how is it funded? guest: it is a relatively new think tank as things go, and it has been around for eight years at this point. it is still relatively small. you don't come to the waterfront in the way a big front will do, but you position yourself differently in the washington political world. we generally are considered right of center. that is because the organization was formed when it broke away from the cato institution, which is a libertarian think tank, but more generally, we are looking for cross partisan policy agreement. host: the name, were does it come from? guest: it was named for one of ronald reagan's economic advisers any chairman of the economic institute. host: talk about the podcast. remind our viewers, that you can

call by party affiliation and those numbers are on your screen. the podcast is called the vital center, and your mission statement says it focuses on current politics seen in the context of our nations history. when that. guest: the right of center was one of the founders of the american democratic action which was a liberal group opposed to communism. he was one of the first people to articulate the idea that left and right had more in common with each other while extremists have more in common with each other as well. we see the same dynamics today. i come from an academic background. i've a phd in history and i wrote the history of the modern way of the republican party, so to some extent, i am interested

in using this podcast in exploring issues of moderation. about having a civil dialogue with those who are not my -- moderate but those on the left and right. host: there's a lot of polarization in politics. is there a centerleft? guest: that's a good question. we wonder about that ourselves. the phrase i use in these podcasts, is a moderate majority of americans. they don't see each other as having a lot in common, but ultimately, they do, and there are many issues in which they have a consensus if you can get beyond the polarization of the moment. host: in one of your podcast, it was called moderate voters matter. do they still matter? what impact do they have? >> neither party has been thinking much about swing voters, for the last several elections, it has made a big difference. moderates are predominantly suburban, and it really provides

a determining boat for a lot of contest, and it was from the house as well as the democrats in 2018. i think joe biden ultimately was one of those moderate voters in 2020, so they make things difficult. host: what about for january 6? that revitalize the center or marginalize it? guest: a journalist with cnn and the atlantic said it was a double negative election. no one likes either party. they just disliked the republicans more, and what we are struggling to find is a positive articulation of the moderate center then just our dislikes. host: if you'd like to call in or ask a question, you can do that on our lines by party affiliation. the numbers are on your screen.

you can also send a text or on social media. let's put this in the context of history. what role has centrism played throughout history? guest: both parties have a relatively moderate or ideological way throughout the history. the republican party, which is the party i study and know best, sometimes they've been called progressives or half breeds. in more recent times, starting from the 1950's and 60's, the moderate ring -- wing was moderate. about dwight eisner -- eisenhower. he was moderate. they even have progressives in their ranks. a progressive republican sound like an oxymoron now, but in cities like new york and boston, it is quite important. the republican party also had a large stalwart wing, which we

can see the monument to was from ohio, he was a conservative but a non-ideological one. since the 1960's, it has been dominated increasingly by ideological conservatives. very goldwater was the first conservative publican -- republican nominee. host: i wanted to ask about the 2024 election. president trump has declared, and desantis is getting in. they look -- the pole say they are evenly matched. everyone else is far behind. what are the chances of a centrist republican taking the nomination? guest: i am no political prognosticator and i do not have a crystal ball. i cannot tell you who will be the nominee of the republican party. it seems like the bases wanting some sort of populism, whether it is ron desantis or some

populism, i don't know. but some people have to be thinking that donald trump cost the republicans a lot, including that senate majority that they should have. it will have some way to either bring a nominee like desantis back to center, but they are not done with trump. if desantis and trump fight each other to a draw, it will be more appealing to a centrist candidate. could larry hogan take it all? i am no prognosticator. host: it is a divided congress. in the state of the union earlier this week, president biden did talk about working with congress. here is a portion. >> democrats and republicans are told they can't work together, but over the past two years, we prove the naysayers wrong. yes, we disagree, plenty. there are times when democrats went alone, but tied again,

democrats and republicans came together to defend a stronger and safer europe. they came together once in a generation infrastructure law with princes -- bridges connecting our nation. we passed the most significant law ever to help expose burn pits. in fact, it is important. in fact, i signed over 300 bipartisan pieces of legislation president. from our bonds act to election account reform act. to my republican friends, we worked together last congress and there's no reason we can't find content since -- consensus

in this congress as well. host: this is our spotlight on podcast segment, that was president biden from the state of the union earlier this week. we are going to take your calls and questions. i will start with twitter. in new york, this. why do republican party supporters decide to follow donald trump? guest: i think donald trump and 2016 spoke to a lot of issues neither party address. donald trump was one of the only candidates that your talking about the opioid epidemic. it has gone beyond notice. he wasn't speaking to a lot of the unheard voices from the left behind parts of the country. i understand that. unfortunately, the populist approach is one that is almost designed to not win consensus or

win over any hope, and you can see joe biden is very consciously trying to take the opposite approach. he is trying to widen and say to republicans, i can work with you. we have work to do. and he's right. there are significant bipartisan measures that pass, but they didn't pop -- pass with the moderate wing. they should -- they shifted with a moderate wing. that is the approach you will take in this congress as well, and it's not the root -- approach the republicans will take. host: what are the consensus issues that you claim exist? guest: there was a big infrastructure bill. that is something that trump said he wanted to pass, but he didn't have the ability to muster a coalition for that. there was the chip and science bill which was a major technology bill on both sides of

the aisle. there was support for gay marriage. there was support for violence against women act. there are areas of consensus that can be worked on. they are just behind closed doors negotiations. they just don't attract public spotlight and are not part of the partisan polarization that affect the rest of washington. host: how much power do they have? guest: a fair amount of power to improve things in the margins. it is often said, this is only the 12th policy, but it only when we can get both sides to agree on. i think we are not having a dysfunctional government, but they are unable to attack some of the most important issues, and that is a weakness. host: let's talk to callers. mark is up first in hackensack, new jersey, independent. hello.

caller: good morning. i am an independent, but i believe i have commonsense views, and i'd like to guess your opinion on two issues, specifically. number one, the increase in crime in many cities. the fact that when criminals are released without bail, they go on to do what criminals do which is victimized more innocent people, and lastly, the fact that there are over 250 americans killed every day from fentanyl poisoning. that is because as you mentioned, donald trump has restricted and victimized china, but with the current administrations border, they are knowingly over whatever, letting this poison out, which is again,

the border was more secure, and china was penalized and restricted from fentanyl, with the former president trump, and he supported the police and certainly not letting criminals out without bail, and these are important issues that you would think would appeal to most people in this country in common sense terms. thank you very much. caller: thank you very much. guest: thank you for the question. there are issues that fall in the middle of american life, and since you mentioned the opioid crisis, i noticed for a long time that the best article was written by christopher caldwell where he talked about american carnage, but then putnam, a

sociologist who leans left also wrote about it. it is a difficult challenge, but were talking about antonello. 50 to 100 times stronger than heroin. it can be smuggled easily into this country in a way that is not true but other drugs. it was additionally made in china to restrict production of that, but it could easily be made in mexico as well or other places. it is very common why do the american people -- are vulnerable to this? there is a sense of yourself. what does that vacancy mean for this drug? i think that is a critical issue. crime is a serious vulnerability for democrats. by no means, it alters the police, but they have been vulnerable on this issue and we will see if they can maneuver and regain control of the brand that doesn't give them vulnerabilities on this issue.

host: democrats line. ohio. tray. go ahead. caller: i can't say enough about the state of the union. i felt so very strongly that president biden really brought it home, and as a democrat, i know that there are concerns about his age, but i also think he is saying all the right things and doing all of the right things for our country. he's only been in office for two years, so when i think of all the fantastic legislation that has taken place with infrastructure, and the reform for marriage act, all of these things are very positive things that are going to impact so many people across the nation. i think it is moving in the right direction, and i'm pleased with his presidency as an african-american male. i think he is targeting the unemployment rate, and inflation. all of the things that we are thinking about as a nation. he is really checking all the

boxes for me. host: all right. what did you think of your reaction to the state of being? caller: i am a registered republican, so i did not share much with president biden, and i am worried about having an octogenarian president, but he has his roots in an earlier era when republicans and democrats routinely work together when they knew each other in washington. socialization was not what they thought about with the opposite members of the party. his background has left him in good stead in finding coalitions of willing republicans to work on particular issues. the fact in this horizon you're a, 19 republicans voted for the infrastructure bill is something to celebrate. host: let's talk to joseph in pennsylvania on the republican line. hello. caller: good morning, and thank you so much. tier guest, i would like to

suggest a third way. if we go back to 1992, i can visibly recall cnn television on the screen with a three way race. ross perot, george bush, and bill clinton. ross perot was leading in the three way. it was 33, 30, 30. he was on his way to win. what happened, i think, george bush throughout pictures about his daughter, and it stoked ross. he dropped out, and he never returned. this is a third way i am talking about. i believe president trump rose ross perot's revenge. you have the right, you have the left, you have the left, you have the right. there is a third way to take elements of both. is it populism? i don't know. i don't know.

president trump was pretty involved in international affairs, so i would not call them that, there is a third way. he got spooked, --. host: let's get out response. ross perot's donald trump's revenge. or the other way around. guest: one of the beauties of a podcast as you can bring on authors. i talked to an author who wrote a book that really traces a lot of present-day political partisanship back to the early 1990's. ross perot doesn't fit neatly into today's political matrix because although he was running as an independent, he was not that really far right. he was certainly anticipating donald trump on immigration themes and trade. but it is also pro-choice with matters of a potion and pro-gun control, but he did speak not as intense with the ending of the

cold war to an establishment of both parties. they were out of touch then, and ross perot was followed by patrick buchanan. he launched a populist right-wing attack on establishment candidate george bush. he came to fruition under donald trump. it goes a long wait back. on my podcast, he ran for the state senate as an independent. he lost, and there are major obstacles to third party on the other hand, he is part of a forward party trying to find a third way between what people see as an extreme on the right. host: the caller said ross perot is winning at a certain point it . guest: the pole said one thing or another, but he was a viable candidate. host: jeanette is next in oregon. democrat line. caller: good morning.

i want to say a few things. i was so proud of the democrat joe biden in his speech. the way that he handled the right wing, which has really taken over the republican party. those 20 people. they would let kevin mccarthy become speaker. they dictate everything the right does, now. i would be so shocked if the right was president again in the next 20 years. you know, when you look at what joe biden is trying to do for the country and the people, the right wing republicans have nothing. they have nothing for the american people. the only thing they managed to get done is that they made tax cuts for the rich. that is their mantra. that is what they want to run on. they also run on taking away rights. abortion. i have one thing to say about that. i've never had an abortion in my

life. i was raised catholic however, as i grew up, i understood it is each person's right. you cannot miss -- you cannot mix religion and politics. for all of these men, especially, who want to control women's bodies, and saying abortion is murder, i feel that women have a bunch of cells, bunch of bones, bunch of skin and blood, growing in their body. until that person takes their first breath, they are not alive. host: let's get a response. guest: i am not necessarily a democratic partisan, but i do think you may find some way back from the nexus of a lot of physicians attached and criticized. it is a dominant electoral force.

this came out day or two ago. this was talking about the state of the union. certain intellectual movements, as well as philanthropic it points out that there has never been a way to translate the populous impulses into election issues. that tax cut was more an expression of line is a more traditional taxcutting republicans more than populism. it is interesting to see if there is anyway republicans can actually go forward solely on the strength of cultural grievances. it is not much to stand on, but the republican governorship in virginia and desantis, a lot of his support with republican voters, i will say, it is a force of two negative things. host: she mentioned a historic speaker election. what was your reaction to that? guest: the funniest force in

congress is the freedom caucus. they have this ability to stick together on their extreme positions. in congress with this low of a margin, separating republicans from democrats, any group that can hold together and have that kind of leverage, it is only the extremes who are able to exercise that, and that is something that is a problem for moderates. there are usually too many on that, and they want everyone to get along. that is what happens. host: let's go to new york. republican line. caller: i would like to say hello teargas. [indiscernible] i will be as quick as possible. my question is how are illegal aliens [indiscernible] and the huge cost of illegal aliens with everything else of

criminals and the ngos and all of that what did -- wicked activists, and how does that transfer form the party. and i don't know if you are a trump supporter or hater. i like president trump. he was one of the greatest presidents of all time, and this president currently it is current regime is destroying our country. hordes of people. as far as culture wars, most republicans and a lot of the black african-americans and white americans who i love, we do not care about the democrats. we love women and children, and if women and democrats want to kill their babies, go ahead. if democrats want to allow their children to be mutilated with

transgender, go ahead. we want to focus on other things. we are not going to stop you from doing anything. what we will do is not be underestimated. we are not radicals. we are not extremist. we love our country. we love democrats, as well. joe biden is a liar. absolute liar, desperate --. guest: a lot of emotion there. donald trump was really speaking for people who felt they had no voice and didn't recognize the country, and they were losing. i think there were enough people in the establishment on both sides, speaking to the concerns honestly and openly. they've always had a tradition and everyone comes from somewhere else. the strength that allowed us to get through the country i think comes together with common

american identities. i think the current immigration follows the same pattern. there is no denying that they are very upset about uncontrolled immigration. the problem is that congress is too dysfunctional on big issues to come to any orderly system. that will continue to radicalize politics on both sides. host: your podcast homepage states that you aim to make sense of the post trump lyrical landscape. are we in a post trump political landscape? guest: we're talking about populism here. i don't think trump will win reelection again, but i will say that his influence is still very strong on the republican side. even democrats are implicitly responding to trump in many ways. i think the democrats radicalize trump, much as republicans were radicalize by democrats and so forth, but we are in an era of

populism where it needs to be addressed separately from the president election of donald trump. all of the baggage it carries. we can lower the temperature of some of these questions. host: avery is next on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question and it's a little bit off message, but it's about these kids getting killed all over america. with guns. the third amendment doesn't say anything about bullets. host: deeming the second amendment? guest: yes. because don't kill people. bullets two. if people go out and get a gun, they get bullets with a gun. i don't understand that. my question is, can we make some kind of survey to see how many people agree with increasing the

price of bullets because if you make these guns, they won't be able to afford a thousand dollars for a 22 caliber bullet. or a 25 or 5500, but one bullet. they will be able to afford them, i am pretty sure. a girl was shot and killed not too long ago. down here in philadelphia. is there any way we could put a survey up with that? host: what you think about gun legislation? guest: there is a chris rock routine about making bullets cost $10,000 apiece. i don't think it is feasible, but it is one of these issues that once upon a time, both sides could work together on. now, republicans are too stuck in the absolutist position. the supreme court backs them up. i don't think it has real historical or constitutional classification.

at the same time, democrats are integrating the broader issues up black lives matter and are finding ways to find support from the public. this is an issue where we can't solve the problem. that is because a political dysfunction. host: kyle is next in illinois, republican. caller: yes. i was 50 years old and i voted for the first time when hillary and the orange man. what i've watched, and i've been watching, and i have seen half of our congress in our senate impeach a president over a made up story by the f vi, the cia, all of them with the democrats voting like sheep over a made up story that was made up by a

democrat party. now, those people need to be tried for treason. then also, with the gun control, guns and bullets don't kill people. people kill people. when people one people dead, they kill them. the nature of them is you can't stop stupidity. you want to control the guns, you want to control the ammo. they want to control what you seen in russia. they took guns away, and you see what they do in a dictatorship. they do not want people to see the corruption. the money. these people make money for the lobby, and with other people, a bunch of money to make more money to run laws against the people. host: all right. we talk about gun control, but you mentioned the first impeachment of president trump.

guest: yes. i think republicans which they voted for impeachment the first time around. it is difficult in retrospect it i'm sure mitch mcconnell would like a do over of some sort. i think we are in a situation where it is very hard to communicate. we also think the worst of each other. i'm not sure that is reality. there is an organization with a survey on things. the reality is, we mostly feel the same way. we also teach and learn from horrible flaws, and of the same time, we take inspiration from the constitution, but what's interesting is republicans agree and feel that democrats do not believe in the constitution. and democrats believe that revolt is to believe in this cremation.

the causality of this could be reached on both sides. host: what do you think of the house gop agenda? it is relatively new. what is your reaction. guest: i'm not sure they have an agenda. i think the push is to investigate and embarrass democrats on every issue they can. jim jordan seems to be lusting for some sort of reincarnation of bordeaux. but i don't think they are making a good job of appealing to a broad coalition of americans. one of the amazing things about the last several elections is an increasing number of minorities, hispanics and african-americans, have been voting republican, that is because they see democrats as a party of elite. but republicans don't seem to be able to reach for this new audience coming in their direction. i think all of the theatrics in the house especially are not going to win them any support. host: here's an article from

politico. house republicans want hunter biden, big tech and the fbi. hearings have started. are americans watching? guest: i'm sure people who support this position are watching, and others are watching to call this a circus, but the question is, is this a good faith investigation for anything that both sides could agree on for? jordan has aspirations to be the second coming of the church state, but that is something republicans and democrats alike will take part in a good part of the service. this seems to be nothing of the sort. host: sac is next, democrat line, pennsylvania. caller: thank you for taking my call. there is so much to unpack here. i think we talk about democracy,

but we have to go back to root causes and things like politicians never want to do root causes. racism to slavery. they are trying to legislate policies that get to the root causes. people whose ugly heads are reared. they talk about feeding the poor or medicare for all, you know. republicans cannot get out of the racist way because they are not going to do anything to defend black people even though it benefits all people. for instance, you could pass a law saying marriage is great and ok for gays. but there are white gays also, but you don't pass the law protecting black people's right to vote. you know, --. host: let's get an answer.

guest: one of the worst ways of the republican party is how they have abandon abraham lincoln's heritage. they have stopped embracing the needs and aspirations of all americans. the republican party has support in the african-american community. it is one of the more socially conservative, for example, in american life. it was in the republican party on any number of issues, but they can't get out of their own way, and there is a search to restrict folk, even though there are efforts that have not done much for them. >> tim in arkansas. independent line. how >> good morning. it sounds like your polyp -- your podcaster be called what jeffrey thinks. i will tell you what tim thinks. we have gone from three levels of government and we've given up the constitution for a fourth level of government. it is the establishment. millions and millions of people

[indiscernible] [indiscernible] when we talk about moderates, what you're talking about is an apologist. it is for the far left. it is either those who want to [indiscernible] change the country,, fundamentally change that you are no longer a boy or girl, but you are on some degree of 50 different genders, and if you don't care, we will help you cut it off did this is sick. but it is how the ruling class entertains itself. to think that there are those who believe they are helping people. it is too much money, they need to get out of running other people's lives and get back to limited federal government. guest: contrary to what it may

appear here, i see relatively little in the podcast. what might guess is our thinking. but some of your criticisms of the establishment and echoes are of those on the right if talk to some who have a very sharp critic of the establishment done homework to look at the origin of the term, and they run the journal, there's also power from the one time critic of the way things are done and they've recently called for the abolishment of the but, i think, ultimately, we are talking about concerns from a lot of people about feelings and perspectives and needs not being out by those at the top of the system. i think that is another area where you can find common ground for people. host: anthony is next in pennsylvania, republican.

caller: hello. my question is, people need to be held accountable. hillary clinton broke the law and we all understand that. there are a lot of other people who are breaking the law, nothing is being done about it. what is your perspective on how to combat this? guest: thank you. i think the rule of law is something that should not be partisan eyes. people should adhere to that as freely as they can. -- strictly as they can. listening to joe biden's city being adjusted something kevin mccarthy should have addressed. you have to go back to when thanks for your question i think

the rule of law is something that should not be partisan. i think both sides should police their own. for example the breakdown of the quorum was something that kevin mccarthy should have addressed. if you go back to 2009 when they shouted you lie and that i'll bet seems to be default behavior. enforcing the law in terms of the criminal code or the ordinances have governed democracy is something both parties should be doing. host: what about george santos? guest: he should not have run and i would initiate procedures to get him out. host: al, and sparks, nevada. caller: i want to ask questions

about the money. is there a natural incentive for both political parties to leave issues unresolved. i understand when people were opposing mccarthys speakership. they would go out the next night and raise money because they were opposing him for whatever reason they chose to oppose him. is there an incentive to not resolve things so you can constantly have something to put on your fundraising letter when you send it out? my second question is about private and corporation money. we note we have a lot of lobbyists, but from my perspective, taking the case of putting enough conservative justices to overturn roe v. wade. that was a 30 year operation. when you have a large amount of private money, you can spend 5,

10, 20 years getting what you want out of the congress. average citizens who are trying to feed their family, trying to keep a job, they don't have time to map out 5, 10, 15 year strategy to get political fulfillment. when the country was first started, it was mostly merchants and guilds and citizens. you didn't have these huge organizations that could wrest control of the government. back in those days, you had average citizens working every day. they know what life is like. they know it needs to be done with the government. they will come up with reasonable policies and we move on. now you have all of these large, financially motivated interest. guest: that's a great question. there is too much money sloshing around in american politics.

this produces all kinds of bad incentives or bad behavior. there are a lot of people on the house freedom caucus who can perform on television that's antithetical to governor because they can raise small dollar donations. i don't think money is all powerful. a lot of republican donations were wasting on cookie candidates in the last election. i do think we should be thinking of ways to make money less of a factor in the way we run things. i disagree with al on if things were better than 100 years ago. in some ways we are back in the gilded age. in the gilded age large businesses made huge impacts on the government. that is why there was a progressive movement in both parties to try to return to the democracies in american history.

and i think we are due to bringing political issues back to the public. host: rosetta is next in maryland. caller: it boggles my mind how anyone can say that donald trump is the best president ever. he is a constant liar. he does nothing for the people. he wanted to be president for the prestige and the money that goes with it. he attacks the poor, white people. he does nothing for them. he doesn't even want to shake their hands. he only wants to do things for wealthy people. he embarrasses us overseas. host: let's talk about the appeal of donald trump. guest: donald trump is in the vein of a lot of populist we've seen in american history.

he is very much like james michael curley who demonized groups of society. and even while he tried to support the poor lived a wealthy lifestyle. that was why he was popular with his supporters. the fact that he doesn't live like ordinary americans in a weird way his superpower in something other politicians can't go against. you must have a fascinating job because you hear from people all over the country with extreme, divergent views. can we ever come together as a people? host: that's why we have people like you want to talk about the center. pat in hollywood, california. caller: i have two points i would like to make that your gus was talking about. number one, it took me aback when he said that he was surprised that an octogenarian

like biden was running the country. the experience, the knowledge shows that he doesn't know what he is doing and he has more than capable of running the country as opposed to some others we have had. my second point is, he also mentioned at the start of this segment that regarding the republicans, he said they should have one the majority of the senate. what right does he feel that they should have had it? i don't understand the voters, as far as i know, are the ones who give the majority to the right. guest: thank you for listening closely to my comments. i am wondering if you are a teacher because when i would speak out of turn, i would be corrected and i feel the same now.

by right, i don't mean divine right. it's just that historically, when we have a party running where the president controls the white house, usually the party pays a severe penalty at the election booth. typically, we would see that a president in that situation would lose two seats in the senate and 26 seats in the house. and this is when the president was facing high inflation and factors that normally would result in democratic losses. the fact that it turned out to be a red rebel suggests that people don't trust the republicans with power. that led them to lose a lot of races in states like pennsylvania, arizona and georgia where you would normally expect them to win. as far as the other