the house is out, the senate is in and's working on president biden's nominations. they consider the nomination of the head of the federal communications commission, the senate finance committ considers the commissif the irs and officials from the departmente white house testify before the senate's foreign relations committee on trficking. live on the c-span network, or free mobile video app. head over to the span.org for scheduling information or to stream video, they were on demand, any time, c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these companies and more including medco. ♪

>> midco supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers. givi you a front row seat to democracy. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. i'm joined by regina labelle. she was former acting director of the white house office of national drug policy what are opioids. guest: opioids are a class of drug. there are naturally occurring opioids like poppies that create

heroin. what we are talking about here is illicitly manufactured fentanyl. fentanyl that is prescribed by a physician for pain is a very powerful opioid that is really lifesaving for people. it is a drug used in cancer care to relieve pain. it is illicitly manufactured fentanyl. illicitly manufactured fentanyl is coming into the united states from mexico now. a few years ago it was coming directly from china by right now it is primarily coming from mexico. host: i want to remind viewers if you would like to call in and ask a question there make a comment about this topic, you can do that. our lines will be rub by region. if you are in the eastern time

zones or central time zones, call us (202) 748-8000. if you live in the pacific or mountain time zones, call (202) 748-8001. if you have been impacted by the opioid crisis in any way, you can call (202) 748-8002. the president highlighted the crisis in this state of the union address. [video clip] 0 joining us tonight -- >> joining us tonight as a father named doug. he wrote us a letter about his courageous daughter courtney. he shared a story all too familiar to americans. courtney discovered pilsen high school. she spiraled -- pills in high school.

she spiraled into addiction. she died from overdose at just 20 years old. doug said there is no worse pain. there family has -- their family has turned pain to purpose. he told us he wants to start a journey towards american recovery. doug, we are with you. fentanyl is giving --killing more than 70 million americans every year. let's launch a major surge to stop fentanyl production and more drug bit action machines, to stop pills at the border. [applause] host: regina, what do you think

of what he said and the fact that it was included in the state of the union? guest: it is very significant. the state of the union address is something that advocates, people who work in the administration are always trying to get their piece in, their policy amplified in the speech. the fact that he not only talked about it, but he talked to the stigma attached to addiction. he talked about in the last estate of the union as well. for people who have suffered the loss of a love one, it can be devastating personally, but the stigma that is so attached to addiction and parents like the one that was in the box, they feel often they are to blame somehow, and i think the main message to parents is that you are not to blame. this is horrible.

100,000 overdose deaths. 70,000 involve illicitly manufactured fentanyl. this is an issue that could come home to anyone. the steps he outlined in the speech and the other materials they put out outline a much more expansive approach. there is not one solution to this issue. host: i want to show you something from the cdc describing fentanyl and overdose. it says thi, even in" small doses it can be deadly. -- this, "even in small doses it can be deadly. it is nearly impossible to tell if drugs have been laced with fentanyl, unless you test your drugs with fentanyl test strips." how do people protect themselves?

guest: one of the first steps i took was to overturn the federal ban on purchasing fentanyl test strips. why would there have -- host: why would there have been a ban on it in the first place? guest: there was a concern it would enable drug use. given the urgency of the situation it was important for the federal government to send a message that these drugs are dangerous. you do not know what you are getting. if you test your drugs to know what is in it, you can prevent overdose deaths. tha wast one of the first steps that we took. there are still some steps that mms paraphernalia, but states like -- that ban them as paraphernalia. host: here is from the nih as far as statistics go, this is

the national drug involved overdose deaths number among all ages and it is split up by gender. this is from 1999. this line is male. this line is female. this line is going up substantially for males. we are taking your questions about the fentanyl crisis. let's start with jimmy. >> hi. what i wanted to know is was illegal fentanyl coming in under -- coming into the country under the trump administration and what are the amounts then compared to now? guest: we have had a fentanyl issue since 2015. increasing numbers of overdose deaths involved fentanyl since then. fentanyl is not -- there is a

lot of attention being paid to it, but it is something that has been with us for a number of years, including in past administrations. host: -- administrations. host: cj is next in new york. caller: do your guest, miss labelle. dealers want to string you along, make sure you are good and hooked. they do not necessarily want to kill you. can you, whatever, just get that thought -- expand on that. when i was a kid growing up in what would be called the hood,, i guess, if you heard about somebody diane down some alley, it would be -- die yang down some -- dying down some alley,

it would be like "i want some of that." it was drug fiend behavior. this new element that seems to be affecting young kids in the suburbs and, for lack of a better word, a lot of white kids -- host: all right, cj, let's get a response. guest: there are a couple of pieces here. i think the first issue is what you laid out is drug trafficking networks. there is the retail side, which is the drug dealer on the corner or over the internet who is selling you something. that is one piece. cartels are transnational criminal organizations that do not just traffic in drugs. they traffic in fuel, people. this is a much bigger issue.

that has resulted in these stronger and stronger, more powerful forms of drugs. the last piece you raised about social media and adolescents have increased rate of overdose deaths in the last few years at the same time that their drug use has leveled off and that is primarily because they are getting fentanyl in pressed pills. they think they're getting something different and really they are getting fentanyl impressed pills. -- fentanyl in pressed pills. there are a lot of elements to the questions you asked. host: explain more about why the sudden increase lately in the last few years. is it that more fentanyl is coming into the country? why? guest: we started seeing an

increase in fentanyl overdose deaths and fentanyl over ability in 2015. since then it has taken off. -- fentanyl availability in 2015. since then it has taken off. these are synthetics made in the lab as opposed to a cocoa field or poppy fields. it is harder to see a lab. host: it is easier to mass-produce. guest: it is much easier to mass-produce. it is cheap and potent. it started with the chemicals coming from china, going to mexico, being mixed. that is what we are seeing today. a couple of years ago we were seeing the fentanyl coming directly from china into the united states. that has changed. host: why is it going through mexico now? guest: number one, china

scheduled all fentanyl and also the united states has had fentanyl scheduling for a couple of years. there was a lot more attention being paid to ports of entry, the postal service. these truck traffic and networks adapt and change, regardless -- drug trafficking networks adapt and change. host: here's an article from cbs news, with the article title " fentanyl seizures rise." it said that the spike in overdose deaths fueled and national conversation and a redoubling of the government's efforts to curb smuggling. 80% of the opioid-related overdose deaths involved fentanyl. most of the fentanyl is being smuggled into the united states

in vehicles driven by american citizens. they have turned opioids into a clandestine nine industry, according to the dea. it says that since president biden took office republicans have sought to link the spike in deaths with the record number of migrants who have entered at the southern border. the ride and administration's handling -- the biden administration's handling has allowed fentanyl to be smuggled into the united states at higher rates. debate over how the deadly drug is being smuggled was on debate earlier this week. interesting the comment that it is usually through the cars of american citizens that it is coming in. do we know that for sure? caller: here is-- guest: here's the challenge when

we are trying to determine how much is coming into the united states. we are seizing more. seizure is not flow. what is coming in is hidden. that is why it is called smuggling. what we are getting between ports of entry is very small compared to what is coming in in the ports of entry in vehicles. it is often conflated with people walking across the border and there smuggling it in. that is not what cbp says. host: let's talk to wayne in brentwood, tennessee. he has been impacted by the fentanyl crisis. caller: last year 2 of my cousins were found. when was already dead and one would soon die within 6 hours

from fentanyl poising. they were not -- fentanyl poisoning. they were not young people. they were older white males in a rural area who, i am sure, got the fentanyl in a pressed pill form and thought it was something else. their dear mother was not able to redirect them. they succumbed to it. i have a couple of comments about why we have a problem and a solution. there were 2 events that were announced this week. they found a press mill. in that press mill, they were caught -- 5 people were caught and they were out of jail within 24 hours. we do not have an adequate

penalty for an accessory to murder, which pressing pills that contain fentanyl is an accessory to murder. any american caught bringing fentanyl across the border, we should expand the accessory to murder charge and make it very, very serious. we have an open door in our criminal justice system, and it doesn't matter that they are white, it doesn't matter if they are black. let their actions have serious consequencess, and it will slow them down. if one pill came across the border and killed one american that was smuggled not through a port, that is serious and should not be ignored. we this last week, we have blimps that use infrared detection and can detect

smugglers coming across the border. for some reason the biden administration grounded those. it is all a matter of optics. host: blaine, let's get a -- wayne, let's get a response. guest: i'm truly sorry for the loss of your cousins. you raise several important issues, and one is that it is not just about fentanyl. we have an addiction crisis in this country. it is primarily driven by alcohol. we have more alcohol involved overdose deaths. it is the totality of substance use disorder in this country, untreated addiction. 90% of people in this country do not get treatment who needed. only about 10% get it. that is why a lot of the work i have done, a lot of the work the federal government has done focuses on that totality of the issue.

how do we prevent substance use from ever occurring. how do we expand evidence-based treatment? how do we support people in recovery ? there is an entire system that has to be developed in this country and infrastructure that helps people get the treatment that they need and also at the same time looking at the issues of counter narcotics trafficking. host: in case somebody is dealing with addiction right now, is there someplace they can go for help? guest: hhs's substance abuse and meealth administration has it is the treatment finder. that inumber that is appear. it anonymous -- that is up here.

it is an anonymous line. i would encourage people to carry naloxone. naloxone is an overdose antidote. you can get it in most places in the country in pharmacies. if you are in washington dc, you call or text 888-811. text "live long d.c." and you can get it for free. that is part of the strategy. host: let's talk to ruth in palm harbor florida -- palm harbor, florida. good morning. caller: i have been using fentanyl for 15 years.

i used the patches. they are 25 microgram patches. i can change them out every 48 to 72 hours, if i need to. i have quite a few issues with the knees, hips, back. if it were not for fentanyl, i would not be able to get up and move around. on top of that, i take codeine, tylenol with codeine. i used to get everything in a 3 month supply. go to the doctor, get my check up, go get my hearing test to make sure i am -- urine test to make sure i am not doing anything else.

in this whole situation i cannot drink wine, beer, use any alcohol, and if they find, anything else ini my system have to be clean for three months before i can get back on the drugs again. all of this to prevent fentanyl abuse, the people who needed, it is hurting us. host: do you find it hard to get fentanyl now? caller: yes. now i have to go every month to my doctor, my pain control dr. and get it. as opposed to what -- when i was getting a three month supply. i have to make more trips to the doctor every year. host: what do you think? guest: it is important we distinguish between the pain treatment, which is what he is talking about, and a

ddiction. too often we have conflated that 2. people with pain management challenges have to be treated appropriately and people with addiction have to be treated appropriately. our system does not train doctors in identifying early signs of addiction, so that is a challenge that we as a nation and medical societies across the country need to address. host: linda is next in ogden, utah and you have been impacted by the crisis, linda. caller: correct, i have been. my son has taken fentanyl. he has taken other drugs as well. i am calling into let people be aware of a major problem. he went to a drug rehab center

paid by the state. supposedly they were giving him drugs. medicare and medicaid would not pay for it anymore. the halfway house would not take him because the drugs that the rehab center gave him -- i had to bring him back to the house and i had to deal with him getting off all these drugs. be very careful with the rehab centers. he was more addicted with drugs coming out than coming in. i deal with drugs on a daily basis, and it. i