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shot a high-altitude project over lake huron. four objects shot down in eight days. members of congress are calling for more answers on what these are and why they're violating this airspace. we are asking you about the president's handling of these aerial objects. let us know what you think. phone lines split this way. if you support how the biden administration has handled these incidents, (202) 748-8000. if you oppose, (202) 748-8001. if you are unsure, (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you are from. we are on social midyear -- media. a very good monday morning to you. go ahead and start calling in

now. headlines from this morning's national papers about this latest incident yesterday. this is the front page of "the new york times," object in sky causes concern on the ground, u.s. shoots down fourth aircraft in nine days. this from "the washington post," mystery surrounds the doubt objects. this from "usa today," airspace invasion highlights security. here is a statement from the north american aerospace defense command, there. on what happened yteay. yesterday at 242 p.m.rn time, at the direction of the president andas on the recommendation of secretary lloyin and military leadership, a missile was fired to shoot down an airborne for object at 20,000 feet altitude in u.s. airspace over lake huron in the state of michigan. could be a hazard to civilianit

aviation. this afforded us the opportunity to avoid impact to people on the ground while improving chances of debris recoveri no indication of civilians heard or affected. the obas detected sunday morning, sual and radar tracking was maintained. data, they connected this to the radar signal picked up over montana. we did not assess th to be a kinetic military threat to anything on the ground but assessed it as a safety flight hazard and a threat due to potential surveillance capabilities. the team will now look to recover the object to learn more. and learning more is what a lot of members of congress are calling for. this being the fourth incident since february 4. it was yesterday on cnn's "state of the union" that mike turner was asked about these aerial objects. here is what he said.

[video clip] >> when do you expect to be briefed on this? >> the biden administration needs to stop briefing congress to the television set. we are seeing a number of announcements by the administration without any real information getting through to congress. this could be because they do not have any information. from coverage we saw, it looks like they took this action without a real understanding of what they were going after but having declared it a hazard. we will see what comes to congress. but i do think there needs to be more engagement within the administration. there was the balloon fiasco where they let it go across the country, with great criticism. >> have objects like these always been moving in and out of u.s. airspace and we're just now learning about them with new technology and shooting them down? or do you think this is a new, recent developing? >> i think it is probably a new,

recent development that you have china being so aggressive in entering other countries' airspace and doing so with clear intentions to spy with sophisticated equipment. the scale of this balloon and the technology deployed by china in spying on the u.s. is unprecedented. no other nation has anything like it or has attempted it. but there are things that come and go from our airspace that we track that do not rise to the level of this very large sophisticated chinese spy balloon. host: the chairman of the house intelligence committee yesterday, one of the so-called gang of eight who gets special intelligence briefings on capitol hill. members of congress calling for more information from the administration about the handling of these aerial objects. we are asking you this morning what you think. in the past little over a week since that first object was

discovered. phone lines. if you support how the biden administration is handling it, (202) 748-8000. if you oppose, (202) 748-8001. if you are unsure, that is ok, too we have a number for you, (202) 748-8002. duck in ohio. what do you think? host: i think we should shoot these objects down. i support biden, whatever he does to these objects that are flying over our aerospace because you have to protect our country always. the chinese balloon could have done major damage. but let's knock these things out of the air before they get to us. with how norad is in canada is together, i think we are doing a fantastic job. he is a great president and will do a good job. i am happy for him. thank you. host: norwalk, connecticut, cindy, good morning. caller: hi, good morning.

because we do not have that dummy that was in before, this is going on now. he put all the pieces together. nobody cares about when covid came around. we still got our supply chain heavily relying on them. the border is wide open. you know, something is going on, and i think most of us know it. i do not like that the administration is being so close to mouth about it, especially in this congress. i just think they're very secretive. we need to know what is going on. so, no, i support them shooting the balloons down, or whatever they are, but i do not support us not knowing and biden just ignores. it is very arrogant. i don't like it. i wish he would trust the american people and let us know what is happening. host: to new york, jules, good

morning. what do you think? caller: good morning. i guess i feel really dissolution by the system that we have and they war machine we live within. i do not understand why we cannot use diplomacy, and we have all these military bases across the world. i just feel really confused by the state of imperialism still today. i feel like this lays into that, kind of just stoking the fire. host: this is john in dearborn, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i oppose the administration's handling of these balloons. i just think it has been a little too much secrecy for my liking. we do not have a lot of information on these. secondly, they let them traverse across several states, and my own state, michigan, yesterday. i do not think that is very safe.

there is plenty of open land in montana or the open peninsula, and they could have shot these down. it is not so much the administration's handling but mainstream media, just doing press releases. you speak of conspiracy theories so long that you do not have a solid foundation to discuss this. host: a lot of questions, including in the "wall street journal," editorial pages. today, the question being asked, what is going on up there? the editorial board ending that op-ed by saying, are we seeing this now only because we are suddenly looking for them? do they pose a threat? and we do not mean only to civilian aircraft, and ending by saying, what the hell is going on up there, mr. president? this story not just on the op-ed

pages, we show you the front pages of most major newspapers today in the u.s. with stories about this. one interesting note that you can take as you will, this is the china daily, the state newspaper, a global english version, the state newspaper from the communist party of china. somebody dropped it on our front door, as they do every day. paging through it today, there is not one mention of the incident yesterday or the balloon from february 4. it is a pretty thick paper today, and not one mention or story about it. that is "china daily." charles in maryland on that line for those who are unsure about the administration's handling of these aerial objects, as they are being called. caller: hey, how is it going? props to the air force for

dropping them out of the skies, absolutely amazing. perhaps maybe the government was also studying the objects of their two see whether capabilities are, possibly get intelligence on what they have and what they are. i was curious, does anybody give considerations to possible weaponization, things that could have been inside the balloon, and perhaps that was the reason why they chose to disperse the balloon over water, to get it away from populations? that is all i got to say. host: here's a picture in "the wall street journal" today, provided by the fbi, a picture of agents on the uss carter hall processing material from that balloon, that first balloon that was shot down on february 4, finding pieces of it off the coast of south carolina. that is a scene from that

recovery effort. robert in oklahoma, good morning. caller: good morning. i am really upset about the way our government is handling all this stuff. if it is chinese-made, we ought to be able to tell that. but this biden administration is always a dollar short and a dime late. they are so corrupt, too interested in making money from everybody all over the world and not taking care of this country. and i think it is high time that mr. biden get ousted from this office before he ruins this country. host: that is robert in oklahoma. promised plenty of reaction from members of congress, several taking to the sunday shows yesterday to discuss this topic. these aerial objects, as they are being called. jim himes, ranking member of the house intelligence committee, was on this program last week,

taking calls from our viewers. we talked a little bit about the chinese spy balloon in that discussion. he was on nbc's " meet the press" yesterday. [video clip] >> the administration seems to want to downplay these incidents. i mean, the fact that a reporter had to drag us out of the administration, they do not want to be forthcoming. is that because i do not know what it is or they don't want to tell us what it is? >> yeah, i really cannot answer that question because i have not been briefed either. and i do think, by the way, look, i got a very detailed briefing on the first chinese balloon, and i think the decision-making process there was very good. we now own something that we are going to exploit for intelligence. i think the decision-making was good. but i observe for you, as well, that we do not hear about the first balloon until it was over montana. again, there may be reasons for

it, and maybe it is because i am in the politics and spend time talking to folks in grocery stores and town hall meetings, in an absence of information, people will fill that gap with anxiety. so i wish the administration was a little quicker to tell us everything that they do know. >> worst-case scenario, this is china basically not taking any lessons from our decision to shoot on the first one. if we found out these two objects were of chinese origin, what does that say about our relationship with them? >> first of all, i would be surprised by that. i need to be careful because i do not know what those objects were. but i would be surprised. i think it is fair to say that the chinese are probably pretty embarrassed that they let a surveillance platform, the first one, go over the united states and it was heard about around the world. we now own it, and that is not comfortable for the chinese, and we canceled the trip of this edgar terry -- of the secretary

of state. i think china is doing everything they can right now to keep a low profile. but we will not know until the administration fully briefed us on what these things are. host: ranking number of the house intelligence committee. that was yesterday morning on "meet the press." a few hours later, that fourth project was -- object was shot down. we are getting your thoughts on the biden administration's handling of those aerial objects? members of congress have plenty of thoughts, as well, also on social media. the news was broke first on a twitter page about this fourth object being shot down. it was said it had been downed by pilots of the u.s. air force and national guard, great job in the air and back at headquarters. we are all interested in what the subject was and its purpose.

a democrat of ohio, have full confidence in the coming days our intelligence and military will piece together details from these airborne incursions over u.s. territory and provide the information we need to ensure the security of our airspace and near earth environment. a republican senator saying after downing china's spy balloon on february 4, the u.s. military has shut down three additional ones. it is high time, he said, for the president to address our nation. the american people deserve transparency. one more for marjorie taylor greene, a republican of georgia, saying there has been space junk, weather balloons, spy balloons, and military advancements for years, all of the sudden world superpowers are shooting and identified objects down, seems like a testing of military prowess. a few comments from yesterday. looking for your comments this morning as the sun rises on

capitol hill, about 7:15 a.m. we are having this conversation during the first hour of the "washington journal." chris of indiana, good morning. caller: good morning. i am very concerned about this. i was thinking that we should just catch them and not destroy them and analyze them, of course, that way we can know what we are up against, because these things are not just coming from overseas, they are on our homeland already. and they are in the masses in the state of alabama, for sure. i just wanted to alert everyone -- host: why are you so sure about them being in alabama? caller: i just returned from alabama, as a matter of fact. they have huntsville, alabama, where it is like the missile defense system of the world. so that is why i am pretty sure about that. host: that is chris out of fort

wayne. this is gary, southern ohio. good morning. caller: i agree with the previous caller. shoot it, let it come down, and let it go slow and then catch it with a helicopter, analyze it. it crashed into the ocean and probably got destroyed. host: what you think about the administration's handling of not catching it but letting it fall down? caller: they let it float over our country a little too long. i am sort of indifferent about that. host: albuquerque, new mexico, next, victor. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what are your thoughts? caller: i don't know about this president. i supported every president, whether i voted for him or not. i just think he is a little too

late to the party. seems like he is hiding everything, know what i mean? that is my comment, i do not think he is doing a very well job. host: ashburn, north carolina, this is tim. caller: i think it is time we all took a breath. you know, country has been floating weather balloons for years. so they are not unusual. and i find it interesting that in 1960, something was shot down by the russians, the initial cover story was it was a weather plane that had gone astray. now we are getting the same excuse. and as far as intelligence-gathering, if you

know ahead of time or you suspect ahead of time that the object is intelligence-gathering , you have an opportunity to protect yourself, and it would be valuable to follow that and see where it is going. remember, a couple weeks ago or so, the reports that there were intelligence ships off the coast of hawaii and one off the coast of south carolina. now i do not know whether you can connect those dots and say this balloon was heading for your intelligence ship off south carolina where they were going to go, recover it or not, but it would have been worth taking a little more time to find out. i mean, sometimes you just have to think like an intelligence person and an intelligent

person. i can remember these senators talking about why they aren't being briefed. i remember several years ago when orrin, i can't keep a secret, hatchet went to the nsa for a dog and pony show, and he came out telling people that we should listen to osama bin laden's phone calls. host: that is tim in the north carolina. this is the fourth incident since february 4. then, a u.s. fighter jet shutdown what is being called a chinese spy balloon. less than a week later, an unidentified object was shot down over alaska. then on saturday, another object was shot down at the border of canada, and then this incident yesterday. a number of incidents that have occurred since february 4, the

"new york times" takes up that topic today. this is from the front page. it is not clear if there is suddenly more objects, but what is certain is that in the wake of the recent incursion by the chinese spy balloon, the u.s. military and canada are hypervigilant inflecting some objects that might free -- previously been allowed to pass. the defense command or norad adjusted its radar system to make it more sensitive, and as a result, and as a result, a number of objects detected increased sharply. norad is picking up more incursions because it is looking for them, spurred on by the heightened awareness caused by the spy balloon that was over the continental u.s. for a week before being shot down on february 4. "the washington post" with a similar line in trying to explain the number of these objects, this from their jump page this morning.

detection of the most recent incursion is the result of additional information from radars and sensors, u.s. officials said saturday, addressing the key question of why so many objects have been spotted recently. it basically opened the filters, much like a car buyer unchecking boxes on a website to broaden the parameters of what can be searched. that does not yet fully answer what is going on, initial caution, and whether stepping back to look at more data is causing more hits or if these incursions are part of more deliberate actions by an unknown country or adversary. this is all over out of falls church, virginia -- this is oliver. you are next. caller: listen, i love c-span. i lived in the northern virginia area all my life. i am a little upset with c-span and you -- not personally -- but i think that c-span not to also

mention that this happened three times under the trump administration, who i could not even sleep at night with those people in the white house. i am a black man who is almost 70 years old, retired from my job, had a heart attack in 2004. i am so glad donald trump out of that white house and his primitive followers. and joe biden, i am very upset with him this morning. how could he not come to the cameras over the weekend and explain this to the american people? he knows that these white supremacists that support donald trump will go on the line and on television, some of the congressman who helped set up the insurrection, and he knows that they are going to attack him and blame it on him. it is a shame that he will not

come to the cameras. ima biden -- i am a biden supporter, but i am very angry that he has not come to the cameras to try to get these conspiracy theorists -- giving them another way of attacking. host: a call from maryland, good morning. caller: yes, i feel the exact same way that the other -- good morning -- that the other caller feels. donald trump was not recognized for the balloons that were in our aerospace under him. mike pompeo goes on the murray of barda loma show and says he does not know anything about it -- goes on the maria bartoloma show and says he does not know anything about it. then i see a general on that show, and maria says with the

trump administration, we did not know anything about the balloons, this, that, and the other. the general said, don't be downplaying this. how come we don't know anything? donald trump did not protect us. he did not even want to know what was going on. so why don't we hear more about that? why don't you tell us what more information about these -- host: on previous incidents, this is how "the new york times" puts it today, at the urging of congress, the pentagon and intelligence agencies have intensified the study of unexplained incidents that happened near military bases in recent years. the study of unidentified aerial phenomena has identified previously undetected efforts conducted surveillance on american military exercises and bases, many of the incidents have been balloons, some of them now believed to be attempted surveillance activities by china or other powers, balloons and surveillance drones.

in a public report, the intelligence committees d said that of 366 unexplained incidents, 163 were later identified as balloons. a related classified documents said at least two incidents at u.s. military bases could be examples of advanced aerial technology, possibly developed by china. that report some 366 unexplained incidents near military bases in recent years, 163 later identified as balloons. asking for your thoughts on the biden administration's handling of these aerial objects, as they are being called, after the latest incident yesterday. (202) 748-8000 if you support how the administration has been handling this. (202) 748-8001 if you oppose. if you are unsure, that is ok, (202) 748-8002. keep calling in. more from the sunday shows yesterday.

this was abc's "this week," with chuck schumer talking about the administration's handling of these objects. [video clip] >> president biden -- what can you tell us about these last two incidents friday and saturday night? are you confident in the overall administration response? >> yes, i was briefed by jake sullivan last night. let me give a little background. bottom line is, first, until a few months ago, we did not know of these balloons. our intelligence and our military did not know. this went as far back as president trump, at least three times. >> why is that we did not know? >> it is wild we did not know. i will get to that. now they are learning a lot more, and military and intelligence are focused like a laser on first gathering and accumulating the information, then coming up with the conference of analysis of went went on before, what is going on now, and what will go on in the future. you can be sure that any, any

american interest or people at risk, they will take appropriate action. until they get that conference of analysis, we have to look at each balloon individually. they were much smaller than the first one, these recent ones, one over canada and one over canada, they were at 40,000 feet. we determined it was a danger to commercial aircraft. so the second one, in cooperation with the coolant -- canadians, the first one with the americans, took it down, and that is appropriate. the first balloon was a much different rationale, which i think was appropriate. host: senate majority leader chuck schumer, and that was yesterday morning. that was before the announcement of the latest object that was shot down yesterday afternoon. he was about 3:00 p.m. eastern time that that announcement came. asking for your thoughts on the biden administration's handling

of this. a call from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. we're all being forced wool over our eyes. there are over 40,000 sophisticated satellites around the globe spying on everybody, and every time we use our computer or telephone, it is all being collected. everybody is using ipads. it is all being stored and shared among all the spy agencies in the world, and we are worried about a balloon? what is a balloon compared to a sophisticated spy satellite going around the globe? all i know is this is diversion, destruction. we have a black hole in ukraine, over $100 billion. and nobody is talking about the economy, it is really suffering.

we are worrying about balloons like back in the 1940's or 1950's? give me a break. everybody has to wake up. your number one spy agency is the u.s. government. they know everything you are doing. israel is the number one ally that knows everything about americans and everybody else on the planet. host: selena out of rochester, new york, you are next. caller: good morning. i support the president's stance on this issue. and the reason that i do is that i am not as smart as those people in the pentagon. one final point, robert from oklahoma, he exactly exemplified what the trump

administration did and the republicans. and they get on the air and everybody can hear them, and then they blame on the democrats everything that they did. thank you. host: back to jacksonville, north carolina, you are next. caller: good morning. thank you. i am not too sure how i feel about the biden moves on this balloon incident because we have not really seen real evidence being brought forward about the debris of the balloons, for one. aside from that, it is kind of hard to blame one person for the entire situation. everybody wants to blaine trump or blame biden, but there are systems in place that allows them where they are at. i believe trump did a far better job than biden. host: do you think president biden should give some sort of address to the nation about these objects? caller: it may help the

situation and provide some transparency. but at this point, the system is in serious need of fixing. quick simply. -- put simply. host: aaron out of alexandria, virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. this is aaron from across the potomac, as you like to say. i am thinking of the world broadcast from years ago when people were panicking over balloons. i do like biden's handling of it right now because we are on a need to know basis. during the trump administration, we heard nothing about it, sort of like his downplaying of the coronavirus. if it is a huge threat from china or any other adversary -- i do not think china is nothing more than our adversary at this point. we need to take a deeper look

into the applications. we do not know if it is a weaponized device or simply surveillance. we do not have that information at the moment. for those that need someone to blame, the only thing we can do right now is blame ourselves because we know china is our enemy. we do not have to look too far to find someone to blame. we need to blame biden for his handling of this. if there is something pertinent that needs to come up, he has always come out. but republicans say they do not like the way he is handling this -- that is ok. look at the other people you have elected to see how they're pointing the finger. we are divided right on these issues. i am hoping we take a better and harder stance on china for the balloon it has sent over and merely said it was an accident, that we know they're constantly poking the bear and waiting for a response from us. host: can i ask you one other question we have been kicking around for this morning in this

first hour of the "washington journal"? who is the united states biggest global adversary right now, the biggest threat, in light of this incident yesterday, we went with this question, but you mention china is our adversary. is china our biggest global adversary right now? caller: china is our biggest global adversary because right now the greatest threat to america is our debt, but who do we owe money to? china. we also do not have the capability of preventing china from infiltrating our country. they send students here to learn information. they steal our intellectual property. they are our adversaries, and there is no wall to stop a balloon coming over into the country. yes, china is the person gunning for our spot, and they have a long-range plan. we're too shortsighted and fighting each other on the daily

and on this radio program, we are too busy fighting each other to realize that. host: thank you for the call. this is ken in mount rushmore, your thoughts on the administration's handling of the arrow objects, as they are being called? caller: i am opposed to everything biden has done since he has come into office. this is just another drop in the bucket. he has totally destroyed our border, allowed millions of people to come in and they are still coming in. fit noel it -- fentanyl is killing thousands of people in the country. we are in a war with ukraine because joe let that war start. if he had not been in office, that war would have never started. same thing with the border, which turned every policy around.

joe has got the whole country screwed up, and china is going to test him every chance they get. host: that is ken out of south dakota. you mentioned the criticism of the biden administration. we showed you the headlines from "the wall street journal" today. what is going on up there? that is a question a lot of members of congress are asking. one of the members, foreign affairs committee chairman, mike mccall was on "face the nation" yesterday. [video clip] >> this was chinese surveillance, according to the administration. on friday, they put restrictions on six chinese companies that allegedly helped china's military build that balloon. is this the right move, to just try to make it harder for them to get u.s. technology, or does congress need to do something that is more broad? >> it is certainly the right

move. it will be in that -- one of my number one priority says the chairman of the foreign affairs committee in this congress, to stop the export of technology to china that then goes into their most advanced weapons systems. in this case, a sophisticated spy balloon that went across three nuclear sites. i think it is important to say in plain view to the american people, montana, that site was nuclear weapons, in omaha, the spy balloon went over our strategic command, which is our most sensitive nuclear site. president bush was taken there after 9/11. finally, missouri, the b-2 bomber, that is where they are placed. it did a lot of damage. >> is that what u.s. intelligence told you? they mitigated the impact? >> they say they mitigated it, but my assessment, and i cannot get into the detail of the intelligence document, is that

it is still transmitting. going over these three sensitive nuclear sites, i think if you look at the flight pattern of the balloon, it tells a story as to what the chinese were up to as they controlled this aircraft throughout the u.s. going over the sites, in my judgment, would cause great damage. a balloon can see a lot more on the ground than a satellite. host: our foreign affairs committee chairman yesterday on the sunday shows. that interview coming before this fourth object was shot down yesterday afternoon. a little after 7:30 on the east coast. here is where we our on capitol hill, asking about the administration's handling of these aerial objects. it is a three-hour show today. the house is not in this week, pro forma sessions concluding tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern is the next time the house will be in a pro forma session. but the senate is meeting this week, 3:00 p.m. today, two votes

scheduled. 5:30 p.m. eastern time, a confirmation vote on a circuit judge to the u.s. circuit court of appeals in the third circuit and a cloture vote on a cloture vote on district judge in puerto rico. you can watch that on c-span2 today. a three-hour show, beginning with your thoughts on the administration's handling of these aerial objects. we will keep getting calls and showing you the front pages of newspapers from across the country, the headlines on these aerial objects. this is charles out of louisville, kentucky. good morning. caller: morning. host: go ahead. caller: yes, i was on this program one time back a couple of years ago. everybody is talking about russia. they could not see the bark

through the trees. this president is a very protected family in the world. why? it is all chinese controlled now. i mean, look at what he did with benghazi and afghanistan. you know, even obama says leave it up to joe to mess it up. host: that is charles in the kentucky. to spring hill, florida, this is linda. caller: yes, of course, i do not know why people keep bringing up -- this was a spy balloon that was controlled. it was controlled over our military bases. you can see it. it should never have been allowed to go that far, because china was the cause of the coronavirus. you know, germ warfare is not

that unfamiliar to people. i believe biden is a coward. president trump would have come out and at least talked to some people. i cannot tell everything that is a secret, which would be normal to say, but to calm people down saying we will get more information. biden runs, is a coward. he does not face the people. he is a terrible president. one last thing, please. c-span -- i love your show, don't get me wrong -- should be obligated because people are blaming trump. first of all, they got to know their facts, these people. he was not informed because it went so fast, they did not think it was necessary. it just blew over a very short distance, so he was not informed at that time because they made the decision to not panic or anything because it was not over military bases. host: this is kevin, fort reed, indiana. caller: morning, good morning.

you know, aside from the lunacy of the previous caller and others that have chosen to criticize biden and praise the 45th, one fascinating aspect of this that has not been considered, and leaving aside the notion that it may rise to some consider lunacy on its own, yesterday in describing the object shot down over michigan, one of the experts, if one can use that, described the object as being octagnal shape, that means eight-sided. host: i saw that description, as well. caller: that leads one to at least question whether or not, since these are unidentified, at

least in terms of the last three episodes that have occurred among the four to this point, as to whether or not we can ascertain or whether the administration can ascertain that these are, in fact, aerial balloons and that there of this planet. not to sound totally off base with all this, but we know that we have had reports of unidentified objects surrounding military bases in the past and continue on with the situation from time to time. it is possible that perhaps we're are dealing with the unknown in terms of these events that have occurred, and it well could be that the administration does not know for certain what it is dealing with. but i would agree with other callers -- host: on the extraterrestrial aspect of this, here is how "the

new york times" puts it today, while the incidents involved unidentified flying objects in a literal sense of the word, national security officials have discounted any thoughts that with the air force has shot out of the sky represents any sort of extraterrestrial visitor. one senior official said no one thinks these things are anything other than devices fashioned here on earth. a call from kingman, arizona, on that line for those who support the administration and how it has been handling these incidents. caller: hi, sorry to call in again, but does anybody remember about hg wells up a reward of the world's, how when people do not know that that was his radio program, not a real thing? it was not panic. that was .1.

.2 was about area 51. we still do not know everything going on over there. and what does it matter where covid came from or that balloon? it came, they came. we have to deal with that. we cannot just blame somebody and say, oh, we're not doing anything else. we handled it. we are taking care of it. plus, the public does not need to know everything that is going on. there is probably security reasons because of the mega maniacs that think everything has to be a big fight and argument and hating. so that is probably another reason, a good reason. host: this is howard in somerville, texas. caller: good morning. how y'all doing? host: doing well. caller: i oppose what he has done.

just because i am calling on the oppose site does not mean i am wrong. i do not have to prove he did anything right. he is doing it wrong. he let it fly all the way across the united states, over several sites, and then it was after-the-fact. evidently, there's more on the way, huh? host: where have you seen that? caller: didn't you just say he shot 1 -- he did not shoot it down, had the military or whatever do it -- still, i'm guessing there's more. there have been since this one, since the first one he let fly all the way across. he could have done something before it got to the mainland of the united states. he chose not to and tried to hide it, didn't he? wasn't there a photo taken and then everything started, oh, better do something. host: in terms of where these balloons have gone and these objects have gone, a lot of concern about what they may have seen on the ground. this is from yesterday's cbs

"face the nation," democratic senator jon tester asked about the administration's response. [video clip] >> you were very critical, made that very clear, about the fact that the administration did not shoot down the confirmed chinese spy balloon over the state of montana, and you wanted it shot down as soon as it was in u.s. airspace. has your view changed at all after being briefed? >> initially, i was very much for shooting it down when it was over the oceans. i think what transpired was that the military took assessments as to potential collateral damage and the threat of this balloon. we pay these folks good money to make sure to keep our nation safe, and i respect their view and the president follow that. going on in the future, i think there needs to be a plan that is right up front, so we know exactly what is going to happen

when these balloons come in and the threat is assessed, what is going to happen. but look, i got briefed in open session and a classified session. quite honestly, the military and intelligence community's explanation of the balloon i accept. is it something i would have done right out of the chute, no, i probably would have done it different, but that is not saying i am right or wrong or they are right or wrong. they have the balloon recovered, and they will take it and put it back together and reverse engineering and we will find out what they were up to, and there is engineering --there is information gathering. host: jon tester yesterday on "face the nation." the president today, according to his press schedule, the daily guidance the press gets for each day, he will receive his daily briefing at 9:00 a.m. then there is a press briefing by the press secretary at 1:00 p.m.

that is it on today's official daily guidance and press schedule from the white house. so plenty of room in that schedule if the president wants to make a statement. there are members of congress calling for him to do that in light of this fourth arial object being shot done yesterday. donald in inglewood, california, you are next. what are your thoughts? caller: well, there is a question about who should be blamed. i think that even c-span is not lady -- letting people know that they may have changed the narrative because what does china own here in the united states? 385 million acres of land. large office buildings in most of your large cities in america. toll roads all over the place. china owns all of that.

why would they want to own it? why would they need to own all that in america? why would they need to send old-fashioned type balloons when they have the satellites? thank you. have a good day. host: from "the new york post" last summer, a story on that. chinese spent $6.1 billion on u.s. real estate in 2021, active buyers of u.s. real estate, most active with a record $6.1 billion spent on homes mainly in florida and california. buyers in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong spent an average of just over $1 million per transaction to purchase existing homes, with nearly one third of those deals involving the acquisition of property in california, according to those reports. that report is from last summer,

looking back to 2021. ken in washington state, you are next. caller: good morning. i do support president biden's shooting down of the balloons and the other objects, although i wish he would -- i do have concerns about the other objects coming in. i am concerned that they might have emp on there or some kind of a dirty nuclear device, and if we explode it, we are going to be in trouble. i know they said it was the size of a car, some of the other objects. it would be interesting to see the combat footage from the aircraft as they shut them down to see what they look like. if they were elongated, if they had fixed wings, it would be interesting to see that footage. i also am concerned with some of the other callers, talking about

some of the land we are selling to the chinese. i have heard that there is an air force base in iowa and they bought land near there and land in oklahoma near a military base. this is pretty concerning to me. and i do think that china is our most -- i would say, our most -- our worst nightmare as far as our enemies. that is all i have to say. thank you for your time. host: back to the topic of chinese ownership of real estate and land in the united states. we showed you that clip of jon tester talking yesterday on the sunday shows, this from "fortune" magazine from today. montana senator wants to ban chinese ownership of u.s. farmland. the alleged spy balloon is giving his plan new life.

a picture of jon tester doubling down on his proposal to restrict foreign ownership of u.s. farmland, tying into the alleged chinese spy balloon. people ought to be able to sell to who they want to sell to but not in this particular case because china wants to do bad things to us, he said. a call out of apple creek, ohio. caller: good morning. i am a 77-year-old ex combat helicopter pilot in vietnam, with 1000 hours. and i went to school in oklahoma. i think an object flying over nuclear sites is more dangerous if it does not have personnel aboard. in -- contrary to what the military thought, because i was a pilot that flew at national

geographic mount saint helens, equivalent to a bomb. if you do not have a passenger on that flying object, it could be a remote control delivery device. i agree with that last caller, one of the last callers, about emp, electromagnetic pulse, which could cause severe damage to our infrastructure. thank you. host: kendra in flint, michigan, you are next. caller: good morning. first thing i am going to ask you to do is remove me from this -- i am going to ask you if you have ever stood with a balloon? host: half i? i have not. caller: next question, how is

the u.s. having balloons all over the country and y'all don't know about it? could y'all quit messing with the air traffic control thank you. have a nice day. host: a call from illinois, good morning. caller: good morning. i am with biden. i think he is letting the pentagon do their work, and those are the guys who have the resources. i do think though that the way they are taking them out, i am sure in some cases there is a better way, but with a missile, letting them fall to the ground. however, they're losing something there because the objects are going to basically be destroyed to some degree. and then you are not going to be able to retrieve the object in the one piece to study it properly. back in the 1960's through

1980's, the u.s. government was using a method that would provide a nondestructive way to retrieve these objects, and it was called basically midair retrieval using a c-130. basically, with the help of helicopters and a c-130, they would drag behind it a large net and would capture it as it flew by. and they would drag it on board the jet, and the net would have a parachute attached and they would drop it down to earth. they did this with some missile testing and so forth.

so it has already been proven. host: a few comments from social media. on twitter, rr says facts don't matter to some, but remember that china would not dare try this while trump was in office, everyone was so scared of him. this one says china is not an enemy but our number one economic competitor. the greatest threat to the country is trump, the murdoch family, the media, and the gop, this one says. this one says complete support of the biden administration and their handling of this, how could one not support the defense of our skies? this is bernard in gastonia, north carolina. good morning. caller: can you hear me.

i don't know, i feel like it is that china is gauging our reaction to it. host: that call out of north carolina. this is james out of chicago. good morning. caller: good morning. everybody calling in, everybody want to diss china, but they are calling in on cell phones. 100% of your people not calling in on land lines, calling in on cell phones. and china, all the cell phones come from china. apple, from our androids. androids and the apple phones. it is more than 100 major

companies in the united states doing business over china, so why would they want to do something to the united states. and i wish c-span one day could publish and put on the air every major company in the united states that is working over in china. thank you. host: our last call in this first segment of the "washington journal." plenty more to talk about, including being joined by mary kay henry of the service employees international union to discuss the state of labor unions in the u.s. later, brian riedl of the manhattan institute to breakdown the latest on the debt ceiling debate. stick around. we will be right back. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks, the house is out, senate is in and will be working

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anywhere, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. announcer: washington journal continues. host: focusing on the role of unions, our guest is mary kay henry, the president of seiu. we have heard of the state of how would you describe the state of unions in our country? guest: many are rejecting the status quo, coming together to demand unions. host: when it comes to union membership in this country, a chart showing the changes in the early 1980's and the trend is a decline in overall membership in the united states, so that chart -- would you say it is

exploding? guest: galvanizing working people is exploding and i expect we are in an inflection point for the american labor that has been systematically attacked by legislative and court decisions that have eroded collective bargaining. but i think workers demanding unions is going to increase membership tenfold, like it did in the 1930's during the industrial organizing of auto and steel. now we see home care workers, fast food workers and others bringing together unions. and i think that workers who have access to collective bargaining -- workers were 30% more likely because they have the vehicle being able to talk to their managers, they seem with airport service workers who are demanding good jobs right

now from congress. they have been able to protect themselves. but overall, as you know, people who showed up to work every day were hit hardest by the public health crisis and their communities are still recovering -- black, brown, asian communities across our country. host: we have seen high-profile unionization efforts in the past few months, what are the one or two most important ones? guest: the airport service workers trying to join together to build a better life but are facing antiunion actions by their contractors. the airlines are going to learn record -- earn record profits, are we going to hold them accountable? amazon and a starbucks are also notable campaigns. we were thrilled when the president said he is tired of companies that are doing antiunion campaigns, hiring

workers, closing stores in order to avoid unionization. starbucks needs to recognize their partners and bargaining contract. host: where does that stand? guest: there are 300 stores that have voted to go union. starbucks is using the national labor board to block progress at the bargaining table. and the workers are undeterred. they are organizing and mobilizing in preparing for their meeting in march, to he gave demand directly to the shareholders -- to take the demand greatly -- directly to shareholders. amazon has the same problem where there are antiunion actions happening in the company. there was the staten island warehouse and out in santa barbara. but the movement is united behind the workers and i believe the workers will ultimately prevail and get to the bargaining table. host: are we talking about just

the warehouse workers? what about the drivers who put packages on front doors? guest: those drivers are organizing as well because they understand that the company is earning record profits and they need to share in the wealth they are generating. host: if starbucks and amazon happens as you would like, how many people are we talking about, new union members, in the service industry? guest: amazon employs 8000 people in their warehouses. starbucks employs 10,000 bull -- 10,000 people. if they could get a national agreement, that would provide work to those across the service and care sector, which you know 64 million -- 64 million people are earning less than minimum wage or are at minimum wage. they need to be able to build a better life through unions. host: we are talking with the

international president of the service employees international union, 2 million members strong. if you have a question or comment for her, you can call in. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. and as we always do when we talk about unions, we have a special line for union members at 202-748-8003. as folks are calling, we started talking about the state of labor unions, the president talking about at the state of the union. here is what he had to say. [video clip] president biden: for too long workers have been getting stiffed, but not anymore. we are beginning to restore the dignity of work. for example, i should have known this but i didn't until two years ago, 30 million workers have to sign noncompete agreements for the jobs they

take. so, a cashier at a burger place can't walk across town and take the same job at another burger place and make a few bucks more. that's changed because we have exposed it. that was part of the deal, look it up. not anymore. we are banding -- banning those. now companies have to compete for workers. host: the noncompete agreements may explain more. guest: i love the example. imagine a worker earning between $10-$12 an hour, depending on where they are, no guaranteed hours, no paid sick. a very tough time during the pandemic. and they cannot go work for another fast food restaurant. that's my fast food workers in california have been fighting for the last five years to get the california legislature to

sign into law the fast food sector council, which allows a half million workers to sit at a table with the government and employers, and actually solve problems. now the fast food industry is organizing hundreds of millions of dollars to overturned about law by taking it to the ballot. it's another example of how corporations in this country refused to follow the president's lead by saying, stop the antiunion campaign, sit at the table with the workers you represent, and bargaining contracts so they can live a better life. host: the president mentioned the proactive -- pro-act, protecting the work to organize act. explain what that is as we show some of the provisions guest: it is important to reform labor lawsecse it is broken, the economy has grown past low law signed into law in the 1930's.

this act will start to fix some of the problems. then we think it needs to be built on, to change the rules, like with the fast food workers are doing in california combat the national level. we need to rewrite the rules in order for those workers who were excluded to get written in. gig workers, fast food workers, those contracted out in airports, not directly employed any longer by the airlines -- they contract out to employers that hire baggage handlers, cabin cleaners, those people keeping us safe in our nation's airports come in and of those are minimum-wage jobs. they used to be middle-class jobs. it is time to pass the good jobs for good airports act so those workers, can bargain. host: you are at the state of the union. how did you get a ticket? guest: i was, mary jeffries

invited me to attend and i was incredibly proud to sit next to a retired hospital worker from our union in new york. and she was proud when the president said we have to protect medicare, medicaid and social security. host: we chatted with a union worker this morning. this is dennis at of new york. caller: good morning, everybody. i'm a member of 32bj, the biggest service union here on the east coast. the corruption in the union is incredible, which is leading to the union members being crushed by the contractors. this is a problem that needs to be addressed. host: how can it be addressed, dennis? what do you want to see? i think we lost dennis. guest: the great thing about the labor movement is we have a vehicle for his concerns, and he can file a complaint with our

ethics person and we can investigate. but i can tell you my experience with 32bj is they represent security officers, janitors and others and have been taking minimum-wage jobs and moving them to $18 an hour at jfk and laguardia with paid health care and retirement, which no service worker there has imagined in their life. the majority leader schumer had a baggage handler as a guest at the state of the union, and he went in there on behalf of a million airport service workers he's trying to organize across the country. host: this is ralph. good morning. what union are you part of? caller: uaw worker from upstate new york. she did mention amazon. you see those prime trucks that has amazon on the trucks. i think i interpret them as

independent contractors. and it seems like there is an over exclusion of miss classifying workers as independent contractors, so they do not have a right to organize, but i hope that president henry can answer that question. and aioli support the seiu. thank you. guest: thank you, we stand in solidarity with the uaw members as well. employers have been using independent contractors to avoid allowing workers to join together in unions, because that is another way the labor law is broken and the pro-act would correct the problems you point out and allow those drivers to be able to join together, like ups workers, who are able to bargain. host: we have an independent on the line from louisiana. caller: thank you. i am a retired teacher. any methods to organize walmart?

guest: you know, i know that historically there have been attempts by walmart workers to join together when fast food workers started organizing in 2012. i know there is an independent group of organizers helping walmart workers in various parts of the country. and the united commercial workers have been trying to back walmart workers. host: the united food and -- workers, how is that? guest: they represent i think about 1.7 million people in retail, grocery and meat packing. and other parts of the food sector. host: what are the main industries of the service employees that they represent? guest: the main industries are property services, which i have talked about janitors, health care, home care, hospital workers and public service,

which is local k-12 education, city, county and state workers that do all kinds of jobs and public service. those groups are backing the fast food workers, who we have been supporting for the past 12 years in their demand for unions. and gig workers. host: what is the status of 15, $15 minimum wage, what is the status? guest: we are proud that the courage of workers in new york has made it possible for 26 million people to be on a path to $15 in new york and california. we are now at 16, $16. and04 -- $60.04 in california -- and as you know, employers have started go above $15. and people are saying in key

parts of the country that $15 is not enough, which we welcome, but we are blocked from getting to $15 in many southern states an key statesd in the midwest. when white state legislatures overrode black city councils who wanted to raise up to $15, they preempted in kansas city, charlotte, birmingham, just to name a few cities. so we have a lot of work to do as a nation to get everybody to $15, then to build from there. host: would a federal law override that? what is the status of that? guest: it would. but it was blocked in the last congress. president biden made it part of the american rescue plan. it was a key way to rescue americans from between crises, health and economic, and we fell short in the senate. we didn't have the votes we needed to get through the 60 votes necessary to win 15.

i think we will see a return to it in this congress and we will keep organizing until we set the federal minimum wage. host: about 25 minutes left with mary kay henry, the international president of the seiu. seiu.org is where you can find them. call in, as usual, and we have a special line for union members at 202-748-8003. matt is in virginia the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm definitely happy to talk with you this morning. i'm very much in favor of the union movement in this country. i do not know what happened over the last 30 years, you know? i am 40 years old. i feel like over my lifetime, the older generations above me have abandoned the unions. and what we have seen now is the various effects of that. and now these young people,

mostly, who are leading the union movement, care about job protections. and i really think that we need to do more online to net young people into the union movement. i know there is a rou called -- forum called the anti-work movement, who wants to reshape how work looks like in this country. we need a new deal for workers in this country that involves how many days a week we work. one of the benefits -- what are the benefits of work? it used to be a pension, but now people do not have retirement because businesses pulled that away from americans. i feel like health care, even though they talk about how bad it is -- how obamacare made you lose your employer health care, uh, a lot of people lose

employer health care when their employers change health care. so, i think you for your work but i think you should do a good job of connecting to young people, because i think the older generations abandoned unions and it is time to lead them back to prosperity. and the billionaires you seem to be wanting to control our lives. guest: thank you. are you outlined a great path forward for the american labor movement, and that is why we are proud to back starbucks partners who are young, vibrant and a the resurgence of the american labor movement, in addition to the gig workers, both of whom are in a struggle. starbucks workers because of the antiunion campaign by a corporation that says they are proenvironment, pro-lgbtq, but are antiunion and anti-worker. those workers will make the case that can improve those

jobs by having a direct relationship with their employer. i agree that young people need to get back, that is why our union and others across the movement are innovating on digital strategy and digital communication, because it is such a way in which young people connect with each other. host: richmond, california -- this is rob, a republican. caller: ms. henry, i am a retired ciu employee. ther was a statewide electede -- i was a statewide elected official for a while. i want your opinion as to whether illegal immigration, which is out of control now under these current policies -- and i will remind you and to listeners that president biden announced in one of the debates before he was president that he was planning to surge all those that donald trump had turned way back to the border, so come on and. -- on in.

do you agree that this depresses the wages and hurts of the union movement and hurts the american working force? host: we will answer your question, but what kind of statewide office did you hold in california? caller: a small union in the horseracing industry, and eye was the sergeant of arms for northern california. host: rob's question? guest: we believe strongly that we have to have comprehensive immigration reform because the system is broken. the president said that in the state of the union. i do not agree, respectfully, that those immigrants are taking our jobs or holding down wages. i think immigrants help create jobs by coming in and helping deal with the worker shortage and pay taxes, even when they get no benefits back for the

work that they do. at that is why we think it is critical that the congress deal with common sense immigration reform and that we understand that the surges due to climate change and violence occurring in south america and latin america. and that families are fleeing for their lives. and that we are a nation that is compassionate and wants to welcome people. and we have to figure out a comprehensive fix to a broken system. we cannot fix it by just securing the border. it doesn't deal with the way in which our economy can get stronger by welcoming immigrants and creating a pathway to citizenship. host: if an undocumented immigrant got a job at a company that had union representation, can they join a union? guest: yes. host: any background checks or restrictions? guest: the unions do not know if

somebody has documents or not because the employer makes the decision, and that worker then becomes covered by a collective bargaining agreement. so, we have 30% of our members who are immigrants, and we have no idea if any of those workers are undocumented. we do know that many of our members have undocumented family members and at that is why our union is so fiercely fighting for comprehensive immigration reform. host: jeff in wisconsin, a union member. good morning. caller: i would like to voice my opinion on how important it was for me being a machinist union member. i'm retired now, i was able to retire before actually being 65. and the benefits given to us through negotiations have made a world of difference in my life and my family's life.

i have health care for life, a nice pension. and the misnomer, i think, is the company's cannot afford that. the prophets at the company i worked for for all those years are through the roof, and at the same time they are going to give us a nice pension, health care, money in an asa. i am so prounion and it has been great for my family. it's helped out a lot. guest: that is a great soundbite for why we need to expand the power of working people in unions and rewrite the rules, so more workers can join together to have the life that you just described. there's so few workers who have the ability to have a secure retirement. and your testimony, i think, is a great way in which the union movement will make a case against the 40 years of attack that the corporate, um, behavior has done in making an antiunion

case. host: we talked about the pro-act, the fight for 15, what are other rules you want to see congress rewrite? guest: we would love to see every health care worker be able to join together in a union. right now it has to happen state-by-state and it takes 10 years to get state legislatures to rewrite the rules. we are doing it in nevada but it would be great if the federal government created a way for every health care worker to join together, they seem for childcare workers who do not have the right to join together. we would love to see the congress make it possible for us to sit at national bargaining table with mcdonald's, wendy's and burger king, with american delta, united and southwest and have national collective bargaining agreements and end the poverty wage work in sectors where companies are earning record profits.

the ceos are doing well. and shareholders are not just getting dividends but buybacks. that has to get countered with the ability of workers to have the power to bargain for a better life. host: what does it mean to be a right to work state? guest: it means no union can collectively bargain for a union shop. and it allows employers to continue their antiunion campaign every day, even when we have collective bargaining agreements, to get members to drop their membership. host: are there still states trying to become that? guest: i think that there are 26 states where unions are allowed to negotiate a union shop because in their agreement and all the rest of the states are so-called right to work. we think of it as the right to work for less because it erodes bargaining power and the ability to drive wages up. host: a map from the national

right to work organization of right to work states. the blue states identified as right to work states. why are they mostly in the south and midwest? and the mountains? why that geographic? guest: i think it is the legacy of white supremacy and the way in which southern legislatures back in the 1930's, when we passed the new deal of labor law reform and social security into fair labor standards, all those states were able to write out workers who were the dominant workers. no farmworkers were covered, the naacp called it a swiss cheese law that a of people fell through the holes. and that is why those estates remain right to work today. host: to albuquerque, brian is

an independent. good morning. caller: i am retired. i worked 35 years in the chicago metro area. another problem that unions have in this country are the corporate democrats. bill clinton was the worst democratic president as far as union labor goes. he was a disaster. his free trade, giving china the uto, allowing corporations to ship factories to china -- now, look -- the chip industry. now we are going to subsidize the chip industry to bring things back from china, what a great idea. there's so many idiotic ideas coming out of the democratic party from these corporate democrats. that is my hillary clinton lost to donald trump. chuck schumer cares about the wall street banks. and the investment firms more than he cares about american

workers. that is one of the huge problems. and back to your answer on illegal immigration. we cannot be globalists and allow everybody in the world to move to the united states whenever they feel like it. our population in the world has grown by 5000 million since the end of world war ii. these people are leaving central america because their economies are dysfunctional and it's because of corrupt politics. so we have to have a limited, sensible, restrictive immigration policy. corporate america will only say we cannot find enough workers when the story is they cannot find workers to work at the ultra low wages they want to pay. start telling the truth. we have got to restrict and limit immigration. host: ok, let's let mary kay henry jump in. guest: i agree that corporations

are holding wages down, low wages. i think it is important you and i have a dialogue, and the entire country have a dialogue, about the impact of immigration on our economy and wages. i think it is time for a compassionate and humane fix to our broken immigration system, instead of dehumanizing and criminalizing people who are simply trying, like you and i, t o provide for a better life for our families. and i think we could probably find, if we had more time to struggle with each other, like we do in the labor movement, to find a better path, the way in which it sounds like you also want to fix the system. how we get it done is where we would have the struggle to find the best path forward. that is what congress needs to do for our democracy. host: do you agree that chuck

schumer is more interested in standing up for wall street banks and investment firms than workers? guest: it has not been our union's experience with him. in all the work we have done, most recently he brought the baggage handler from jfk. he wants the good jobs for good airports act to be passed. that will take one million poverty jobs and make them minimum-wage jobs. host: he also brought up nafta, that was replaced by the usmc a during the trump administration. what has that meant for union workers? guest: any trade policy factors in fairness for workers, here and around the world. i think that that is the job of this administration and beyond, that we have to create trade policy that actually invests in american workers, american manufacturing, and making things

here in the way that the president said on tuesday. host: did you have a role when it came to the usmca? guest: there was an advisory board that i was on, but i have to say that a voice would have been hearing, but not being able to impact. that labor advisory committee, i did not feel it really changed to the trump administration. host: is that committee still active in this administration? guest: yes, but it is very different because the people we are dealing with have been directed by this president to write in protections for workers in a way that the trump administration did not direct? host: how often do you meet? guest: i meet with various people at the white house regularly. the people we have dealt with on trade were grounded more in the

department of labor. that's who we met with to impact trade policy. host: john in washington, d.c. good morning. caller: hi, does president henry believe that workers would benefit and the labor movement would be stronger if seiu and the teamsters union would rejoin the national aflcio body to make the labor movement a stronger, more unified -- labor movement stronger and more unified? host: can you explain some of the history there? guest: sure. the american federation of labor is a group that has 60 affiliates.

the teamsters and fciu have been inside and outside the seiu. we left in 2005. and i think solidarity across the labor movement is a key ingredient, but i think the thing that will make the labor movement the strongest is if all the labor unions in this country back at the uprising of working people demanding unions. and that we invest in organizing on a scale that the labor movement data in the 1930's. that is what we need to return to in this period, because i actually think back to our first conversation -- it's a way for the movement to grow membership, by demanding that the government rewrite the rules so more workers can join together in unions, and eye making sure that workers are making bold demands and disrupting the status quo in order to get employers to

invest. host: what is keeping the current unions from getting on the same page and doing what you described? guest: there is a coalition of us working with the cwa, the united farmworkers, uscw, let autoworkers. host: you didn't mention the aflcio. guest: the uaw is inside of the aflcio, and we regularly coordinate with them when we speak to the white house or dealing with democratic leadership in the house and senate. so i feel proud of the collaboration happening. we are joining together to beat back the attack in florida on removing the collective bargaining, that the republican legislature is about to do. host: what does that mean? guest: it means that hundreds of thousands of teachers and firefighters, school employees

and co. into city employees will have their unions taken away by the state legislature, just like scott walker did in 2010 in wisconsin. host: take us back to 2005, why did you decide at that point to switch from the aflcio. guest: we wanted to figure out how to build a stronger and more vibrant labor movement that was willing to innovate and drive change, and organize on the scale required to meet the needs of working people. host: they were not doing that? guest: no, they were not committing resources to organizing. the current leadership just got the exhibit of counsel to increase the per capita tax, the money that unions pay, to create a center for transformative organizing, so there is a good turn happening there. host: we talked about the 2 million members in the seiu.

how many members do they have? guest: the aflcio represents 12 million members. host: are they the biggest in the u.s.? guest: they are the biggest federation. there are individual unions in the aflcio. the teaching unions have 3 million teachers. host: we showed the chart earlier, about 10.1% of the u.s. workers are members of unions today. now, from the 1980's when it was above 20%. guest: the consequence of that is we no longer are driving wages up for the entire economy. when more workers have collective bargaining in unions, at about 30% in the 1970's, we were making wages rise for everybody. there is a consequence for the entire nation, not just union members, when union membership declines. that is why we are calling on governments and corporations to

increase the power of working people by allowing more collective bargaining and stopping the antiunion campaign. host: we have time left with mary kay henry. the phone lines -- we have a special line for union members. otherwise it is as usual. out of baldwin, michigan -- good morning. caller: i wanted to give a clarification. on the noncompete clause. are you telling me that someone cannot cross the street or go on the others of town and apply or take another job at another fast food restaurant? guest: yes, isn't that ridiculous? caller: are they sued? are they arrested? as a cashier -- has a cashier

every been sued by a fast food chain because, really? i -- host: go ahead. guest: mostly what you will see in this sector is a mcdonald's worker will go to another mcdonald's store, in order to try to stitch together the hours they need to feed their family. and i do not know of cases where workers have tested the noncompete clause, because there is so much pressure in their lives in order to take minimum wage jobs with no benefits and stitch together a life. i do not think that many of them want to test of the corporation coming after them to sue them. host: steve in south carolina, an independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i just -- i was in the manufacturing chemicals injury for -- industry for years. what i found in a lot of cases

when negotiating contracts, i did not have a lot of problems dealing with unions. the union leadership was a good group. what we found a lot of times is the unions, because we were moderate, the manufacturing plants, were absorbed by larger unions. and suddenly they no longer got the attention of the union when they had an issue. that was sometimes a good issue that should have been dealt with. so the larger the union got, the less attention the smaller operations got. and therefore, they got left behind. the -- i guess that was my biggest points i wanted to make -- point i wanted to make. the fact that you can work with unions, but the problem you sometimes find is the union constricts the people and

companies sometimes from discharging bad employees, without spending an enormous amount of time trying to build a case to get rid of them. and i had a lot of good workers, and usually it was about 10% of people that gave me nothing but problems. and the union, their leadership -- their hands were tied. they had to drag us through all sorts of crap. anyway, that is my comment. guest: i have found that the grievance procedure of unions is a way to check at will discharge, which is a reason why a lot of workers join unions. if management and labor are working together effectively, and management can document that 10% that is not doing their job, then the union workers that are

doing their jobs in those plants do not want the union to protect workers who were not performing. i appreciate you sharing that experience, but in my lived experience of 45 years, that is the exception, not the rule. host: what happened at the end of last year when congress approved a bill blocking a national railroad strike? and there were concerns about negotiating with unions there. can you explain what that was about? guest: what i understand, even though i was not directly involved, is there was an issue about workers who are on the job for seven days straight because they are crossing the country with cargo, and they need sick leave in ported to be able to see a doctor at either end, or when they return home.

and what i wondered about during that situation is president biden -- he was trying to get the rail companies and 10 unions to reach an agreement, and they invoked the emergency act that only exists for railroad workers. host: blocking their ability to strike? guest: right, because they have to go to congress to get that acted. the question i had in that situation is if the railway companies reduce the workforce by 30%, they did it two years ago pre-pandemic, and they are operating at pre-pandemic levels now, where are the workers and that are needed in order to allow the current workforce to take time off in a situation where the companies are earning record profits? i feel like that got lost in that to be. host: it is time for one more call. on the line for democrats,

raymond. caller: hey, how are you doing? the only problem i have with unions is i work for the department of mental health in massachusetts -- worked for the department of mental health and massachusetts in the 1980's. i actually got promoted at a young age, and i was a supervisor at 19 years old over people who were 30, 4050 years old, who had worked for a long time. and, like i said, i think that the unions, the only thing i noticed that they did was represent people who were abusing patients. and i heard her say, like, it is rare and it does not happen. it does happen and instead of representing people for wages, a lot of times they are representing people for bad deeds. so that is the biggest problem i have with unions. as far as minimum wage, you are

basically giving people money to be mediocre. so, if you pay a good wage and you give people incentives and people move up, that is the way industry works. instead we give them the money and our productivity as a country is a lot lower. host: let me give you the final minute to respond. guest: i think that productivity is actually up in the american workforce. we are working harder and longer than most other workers in the country. while i respect to your experience, i want you to know i have been around mental health workers who are burned with abusive patients. i experience it as the exception, not the rule, and that is why i am committed to making sure that we rewrite the rules and create a way for all working people debility better life. and why we want congress to pass the good jobs, good airports

act, and make it possible for a million service workers to have living wages and benefits. host: you can go to seiu.org. mary kay henry is the president of the service employees international union. we always appreciate you stopping by. next, we will be joined by brian riedl to discuss federal spending and of the ongoing debate over raising the debt ceiling. stick around. we will be right back. ♪ announcer: this week on the c-span networks, the house is out and the senate is in, and will be working on president biden's nominations for circuit court of appeals and district courts. on tuesday, the commerce committee will consider the nonation of-. and on wednesday they will consider the nomination of

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the latest in publishing with book tv's podcast about books, with nonfiction book releases, bestseller lists, industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find the podcast on c-span now, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> there are a lot of places to get political information. but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, if it happens here, here, or anywhere you can imagine, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. announcer: washington journal continues. host: we returned down to the

topic of the debt limit and federal spending. a recent piece from the boston globe, the headline, my fellow conservative, do not hold the debt limit hostage. the author is brian riedl. good morning. guest: good morning. host: why this appeal to your fellow conservatives on this topic? guest: i have been working with conservatives on capitol hill on fiscal issues, and i am sympathetic to them on why to attach reforms to the debt limit. the eighth biggest deficit reduction deal since 1985 were all attached to the debt limit. but at the same time i do not think that it is feasible to hold that limit hostage. ultimately, we cannot default on the debt. it would be catastrophic. the result of that is there have been republican circles saying, what if we have a bill that says if we hit the debt limit, which

means we have to cut spending immediately to balance the budget, what if we just make sure that we first pay interest on the debt, social security, military pay, and maybe medicare into veterans health out of the remaining 80% funded by tax revenues, and then cut out everything else? this is called prioritizing. if you're going to have to cut 20%, let's determine what 80% will be paid to be the most important things. the problem is it doesn't work. first, the treasury's computers are not even designed it to be able to determine what bills to pay. they have millions of payment invoices coming in every, social security checks, food stamps, payments to states, they will pay them in order. it does not matter if you have a prioritization bill, they will pay bills in order until estate

tax revenues run out. if your social security check is present in the morning, you will get it. that is not a good idea. there are other problems of prioritization. you are still defaulting. you are not really fully in the bond market. we tell people you will get your interest payments, but just because you are paying your credit card payment, if you are not paying your mortgage the credit companies will still notice. so i am trying to steer conservatives away from prioritization. it is not going to work. and i am trying to encourage a deal where if you are not paying

your mortgage -- as much as i would like to keep social security and medicare, free medicare so they do not go bankrupt, some of the ideas i am hearing are things like freezing discretionary spending for one year. flint is 30% of all spending that goes to the actual appropriations process like defense and to some health and education. it has grown 18% in the past few years. something modest like that.

i would like to see everything on the table, passive and spending for really big deals. but it seems like there is not much of an appetite for something that big on the debt limit, so even something modest like discretionary spending, which some democrats are on board with. that might be something a little more realistic. host: brian riedl is a former chief economist to senator rob portman. he is with us until 9:30 a.m. eastern, so go ahead and call in. republicans at 202-748-8001. democrats at 202-748-8000. independents at 202-748-8002. president biden last week was in a back and forth with republicans on the house floor, who said after some back and forth that medicare and social security are off the books. you said you want to reform social security and medicare.

what does that mean? guest: the problem with social security and medicare now is there are misconceptions, like they do not contribute to the budget deficit. that is not true. this year, payroll taxes and premiums do not cover all benefits. this year the federal government is going to have to spend $420 billion from general revenues to payout social security and medicare benefits. that annual transfer of federal revenues will go from 420 billion dollars this year to $1.9 trillion a decade from now, that is why deficits are growing. it is scary, because medicare and social security are facing a shortfall of $116 trillion, according to the congressional budget office. that is not my math, that is the congressional budget office. $116 trillion. in order to pay all promised

benefits, we either need to raise taxes by $116 trillion, cut spending, or borrow $160 trillion. most of that gap is medicare. it's $80 trillion short. and even if we saved the trust fund, social security would've been $33 trillion short instead of $36 trillion short. but i would like to see members do is sit down and put everything on the table, to make sure that social security does not go absolving in 11 years. and medicare does not go insolvent. so, start tweaking in small changes though the benefits now that might grow over time, not taking anything away from anybody, with slight changes. just to keep these programs going without having to double middle-class taxes. i would love to see a deal with everything on the table. put taxes on the table, put

programs in defense on the table. we should all agree that we do not want these programs to go insolvent, or to create $116 trillion in debt over 30 years. host: on the predictive date of insolvency, medicare expected to be insolvent by 2028. social security would be insolvent by 2034. on social security specifically, cannot be fixed by raising the cap? remind us what that means. guest: people pay social security taxes. you do not pay above 100 62 $5,000. the reason you don't is because the designers of social security wanted to keep a link of how much you pay in to how much you get back my they didn't want people to pay much more in their working life than they would get

back. they wanted to link the two. there's ideas to raise the cap to say you will pay social security taxes on income all the way up. if you do that, it would close about half of the long-term social security gap. the social security deficit stabilizes at about 1.8 percent of gdp by the 20 30's. getting rid of the cap eliminates about .08%. that could be part of the solution. it will only get you about halfway there. that leaves things like the eligibility age and benefits for wealthier retirees at that have to be revisited as well in order to keep the system solvent. host: a question on twitter to you, why is it that there are no talks about deficits and debt unless there is a democrat president? four years of tax cuts under

donald trump and now republicans are worried about it, same under both bushes and reagan. guest: i wrote an article in the dispatch a couple weeks ago, urging conservatives to get serious on deficits. 1.i made was republicans really seem to focus on deficits only during democratic presidents. that is completely true. i am not here to defend republicans. i work for a republican senator but i am an independent. and republicans have done a bad job on deficits. they are guilty and they need to do a better job. that said, the deficits have been a problem under both presidents. they rows under president obama, if you measure my legislation. under president obama, all legislation -- over $5 trillion under his presidency. under president trump it was $7.8 trillion in only four

years, granted half of it was covid. what we see is if you measure legislation, which is what the presidents can actually control, we have not had a president really talk deficits going back decades and decades. it is a bipartisan problem but if the argument is if republicans only go after deficits under democrat presidents, i agree and i host: h debt? guest: one hunter percent of the gdp is on pace to go to 185 percent in 30 years. if interest rates rise, it could go to 300%.

if the debt goes to 185% of gdp, interest would take up half of your tax dollars. if interest rates rise, they could take 100% of your tax dollars in the next couple of decades you have interest taking up half or more of your tax dollars. that's too much. beyond just that component, there is a certain point where they are going to see a debt growing out of control. they are going to say -- we're not sure your house is in order. you don't want to lend you the money anymore.

that's what we're are trying to avoid. it's as much about the psychology of the bond market. in five years, 15 years, 20 years. at some point, between now, something has to give. we don't know. once the bond market does enough and -- the solution is going to be so much more painful. host: that's according to the u.s. debt clock.

this is alex out of st. paul minnesota. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. can you hear me? i totally agree this interest rates will be a big problem. a question about going to -- [indiscernible] they go ahead and tax things that don't prevent spending. why do you think from a negotiating position would democrats be interested in giving up the only leverage they have. i will take my call off the air.

guest: that's a great question.

>> might other things? you're going to say you've got to pay up. you stole from us for years. i'm not buying that. corporate greed. i'm 69 years old. i have great health insurance.

every prescription i get because i have good insurance, i only pay about $15. if you look at the usual charts, they say it's $200. if i didn't have this good insurance, that's what these drug companies would be paying who are making record profits. we are trying to address the fact that billionaires don't pay a damn penny. people should pay their fair share. when people pay their fair share, then we will have money to be able to spend on other things. host: let's take those two topics up. guest: so security ran a $3 trillion surplus from 1983 to 2009. that was rated by the congress and spent.

they can run a dessa fit until 2024. everybody agrees it's going to be allowed to run a $3 trillion deficit and they are going to get paid back. nobody disagrees with that. the problem is the shortfall over the next 30 years is $36 trillion. even if it gets repaid, it is still facing a $36 trillion shortfall. if that $3 trillion have been saved, you still have a shortfall. everybody agrees, those bonds are going to get paid back. the problem is the deficit is so much bigger. as for taxing the rich, every

thing should be on the table. that being said, you can't get there just by taxing the rich. the amount of money you would need to pay for social security and medicare, if you sees every penny, that is $5 trillion. i am not saying don't tax the rich. i'm not saying don't put it on the table. the reality is that if you want to raise taxes to pay for these shortfalls, just taxing the rich is impossible to close the gap. you have to raise middle-class taxes, that is what europe does. they pay for social insurance because it wouldn't be enough.

i'm not saying don't tax the rich. we just have to be realistic. it is not going to spare the middle class from huge tax increases. host: how much do we get from proposals we've heard, cutting waste in the federal government, taking a at military spending. those are areas that a been proposed on this program. >> very little. waste is hard to define. they have to get $100 billion in waste fraud and abuse. as for defense, it's about $800 billion. if we -- it's already been dropping as a share of the budget.

it is 13% of the budget, which is the lowest it's been in a long time. it's the slowest growing part of the budget surprisingly. if you were to cut the defense budget 10%, you would get $80 billion per year. that is hard to do. the bill doesn't specify how to make the numbers work. it tells the defense secretary to go after the cbo. let's say we do this and we did as much as we cannot, that would get you about $200 billion a year out of the deficit that is $1 trillion. you've got to double taxes or reform social security and medicare. nothing else get you there. host: we've got about 15 minutes

left. you can call in out of cumberland, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say that we just pledged to give to turkey and syria 85 million dollars of funding we don't have. we are giving israel $4 billion a year. they have a budget line item. note other country gets this privilege. they are getting 4 billion dollars without even asking the government for it. we are out of money.

we can't keep going around the world because someone has a tragedy. california, the fault will slip any day. who is going to bail us out when that earthquake takes place? these trump tax cuts for the wealthy, they have to be rolled back immediately. social security needs to pull back the money that was taken and put into the general fund. the taxes for social security have to be raised. we just need to be more aware of who we are giving money to. host: let's take that up. for an aide first. guest: i hear a lot of foreign aid and there is a lot of -- ukraine is a big flashpoint. i hear the argument on twitter.

people can disagree on foreign aid. the amount we spend is about $40 billion if you can't military, economic aid. it's a little higher right now with ukraine. it's about 1% of the federal budget. there are misperception that it's 25% of the budget. it's not to say that it shouldn't be on the table. if you take everything off the table because it small, you run out of things on the table. everything should be on the table. this includes funding like saving millions of lives in africa who have died of aids. you get into some tough decisions dependent how much you want to cut. some of it is military aid to israel.

humanitarian aid, most people are more sympathetic in emergency aid like what we have in turkey and syria right now. the money is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the budget. if the american people don't want to do foreign aid, it should be on the table. we also have to be realistic that foreign aid is 1% of the budget. if you zero out all foreign aid tomorrow, the amount it would say for social security and medicare doesn't get you there. that's not to say don't do it. this is so small compared to the $116 shortfall over 30 years. if we don't like them, everything should be on the table. host: bill on twitter wants to

know the $116 trillion. guest: that comes from the congressional budget office. the congressional budget office every year does the long-term budget outlook. you can google cbo long-term budget outlook. it's the thirty-year baseline of the government. this assumes the trump tax cuts expire on schedule. if they expire and there is no more spending programs, this is just to pay promised benefits. i took the data. they expressed in terms of percent of gdp. using the cbo and converting percent of gdp into dollars, it is 116 trillion dollars over 30 years. host: cbo.gov is where you can

go for that. you mention the previous trump tax cuts. telus more about that. guest: they cost $250 billion per year. some say they pay for themselves. they don't. in most circumstances, tax cuts do not pay for themselves. they provide a little bit of growth revenue sometime, never enough to pay for itself. that is out of a deficit that is rising to 2.7 trillion dollars a decade from now. if you got rid of the tax cuts, if you extend the tax cut, if you get rid of the tax cut, the deficit is $2.4 trillion one decade from now. one thing to know, the tax cuts

were families earning under $200,000. you are getting rid of things like the expanded child tax credit and lower tax brackets. if you get rid of it, you are taxing across the board, including the middle class and lower incomes. it should be on the table. everything should be on the table. host: this is leanne. you are on with brian riedl. caller: i am going to change to and dependent. i am going to focus on health care. i would love to have an opportunity to talk at length. i know that is not possible. i think we talk about health care costs without facing the

fact that there are people who are deciding what these things cost. people talk about the exorbitant cost of health care. the health care industry is so incredibly powerful, they have captured the fda and the entire society. there is so much power, the power dynamic. when you talk about ableism and a culture that looks down on people who have disabilities or illness, they are seen as weak or at fault. the doctors are held up almost as priests. they are sanctified. the dangerous thing is when you have a one-sided power dynamic,

it gets into the area where we need a real patient union. real places where patients get the help, i can tell you as a patient who suffered for a very long time from a serious condition that no one disagrees that i have a serious health condition, the bottom line is there is no place where the buck stops. there is no way the doctors can be held accountable. there is no way patients can have power. host: let's let brian riedl jump in. guest: i am sorry to hear about your condition. navigating the maze we face in health care, i haven't gone through it to the degree you

have. i am familiar with our system. it's a disaster. it is an overly complicated bureaucratic maze. for patients, it is so daunting to go through and get the care you need and then try to go through insurance companies and government agencies and figure out how much you have to pay and how much is going to be paid and fight with everybody for every reimbursement. i'm completely sympathetic. it is a complete mess. it's got the worst aspects of free-market health care and the worst aspects of socialized medicine in one system. from a budget standpoint, medicare is in the whole $80 trillion. medicaid costs are writing. we pay all years -- doctors on volume rather than care. they are paid to run more tests.

they are paid to prescribe more. we are not going to fix the budget until we fix health care. we are not going to fix the economy and help give people peace of mind until we fix health care. host: john here in washington dc. good morning. we will go to joe in pittsburgh. good morning. caller: good morning. i think your guest is pretty accurate on most things. he should not be linking social security with medicare. they are two separate systems. the trust funds are different. the other thing i would like to mention is no one is ever borrowed money and spent it from social security. it cannot spend money, it cannot borrow money it's a closed

system. despite what your convoluted argument your guest made, it does not contribute to the deficit. thank you very much. guest: the congressional budget office long-term outlook, if you go to page seven, there is a section, so security and medicare contribution to the federal deficit. don't take my word for it. the congressional budget office has the outlook, a list of social security contributions to the federal deficit by year. it does contribute to the deficit. it is controlling this year 180 $9 billion to the deficit because the payroll tax only collected 1.1 three $6 trillion. the benefits are more.

it is taking 180 $9 billion out of general funds. some of that is interest payments. some of it is general funds. the caller is right. the deficit so security runs this year are owed to them because it ran surpluses between 83 and 2009. it means they are allowed to run deficits because they used to run surpluses. they also collect other revenues , interest payments, other taxes in addition to that. over 30 years, social security is going to run $30 trillion in deficits because we assume benefits will continue being paid after the trust fund exhausts itself. the confusion is so security is such a convoluted funding system.

there are a lot of ways to get tripped up on the system. so security is contributing to the deficit this year. don't take my word for it. host: we've got five minutes left. this is stan. caller: thank you. it's good to hear you speak. i am a 70-year-old retiree. i do have savings. i am struggling as a retiree who put money in the stock market. if you put money in the bond market, you get very little in return. more recently, treasuries have yielded short-term. i have purchased some of those. i am asking you, what do you do with your savings? do you put it in the stock market and risk it there? do you put it in the bond market and get little return?

as a retiree, maybe i'm rooting for interest rates to go up. i can get a rate of return that will help me more in retirement, even though it will be painful for a lot of people. i am curious where you put your money and where you think a 70-year-old could put their money given our current situation. guest: i am not allowed to give investment advice. i am in my 40's. i'm not putting my short-term savings in the stock market. by retirement is in the stock market, i am not going to touch that. my money is in short-term cash and safe bonds as well.

the stock market right now is too risky for a lot of my savings. if you are 70 years old, you can't afford to weather the ups and downs of the stock market. a conservative approach works. host: we have time for one more call out of louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i just keep going through my head this bill they just passed. we never really find out except from a few excerpts, why are we spending millions of dollars to have nancy pelosi's name on a building or a walking path for moechella obama in the millions. how do we find out, where do we go to find out everything that

was in this bill? there is so much wasteful spending. the people don't really have a say in the trillions they are spending. there has to be a different system. guest: that bill that passed in december, if you count the explanatory statement, it was 7000 pages long. members were given about two days to read it. the public wasn't given that. congress is not supposed to govern this way. they wait until the last minute and throw everyone a 7000 page bill. that's a terrible way to legislate. what we need to do is have

congress do its job and pass a spending bill gradually and openly during the year where we have weeks to read a bill where members could go to congress and remove some of the wasteful spending. this is something that drives me crazy, where you spend 1.7 trillion dollars, no one has time to read it. no member is allowed to go to the floor and amend the bill. it's a terrible process. i have seen it get worse. host: if you want to see more of brian riedl's work, if you were to see his primary sources, cbo.gov is where you can go. we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: we've got about half an hour left. it is our open form. we will lead the discussion on any topic you want to talk about.

phone lines are on your screen. you can go ahead and start calling in. we will be right back. >> ts week on c-span, the house is out. the senate is in and will be working on judicial nominations for courts. the senate commerce committee coiders the nomination for the fcc. the finance kit mittyonders officials from state, justice, the white house testify before the foreign relations committee. c-span networks.live on the

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if it happens here, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: here's where we are. we will end at 10:00 eastern. the house is not in session. they are not meeting this week. they are out this week. there is a brief session for tomorrow around 10:00. the senate is in washington this week. there is a 3:00 gaveling in. you can watch that on c-span 2. two votes in the senate at 5:30 p.m.. the first is a confirmation on a judge for the court of appeals. there is a vote on a judge in puerto rico. that's what we are expecting on the senate. this is our open form. any political or state issue you

want to talk about, this is only turn the program over to you. spring lake, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. every morning, i've got a little issue i am getting concerned about. it's the land sales and the food land sales they are selling to the chinese. i don't know if anybody is keeping up with that. it is kind of scary. that's all i've got to say. have a good day. host: we talked a little bit about that in the first segment. a new york post story from last

summer was taking a look at il estate sales to chinese nationals in 2021. $6.1 billion on u.s. real estate in 2021. that's the highest on record. this is don in fresno. could morning. caller: good morning. i am enjoying your show this morning. i have a question that's been bugging me. it's on food stamps. medical issues with obesity and other problems due to improper eating, we allow those on public assistance. they can buy foods that are very non-nutritious and lead to diabetes. i wonder why the government hasn't stepped up that. those that need help, they have

health issues. that's where this is leading. i don't know why the government lets these get by. i don't know if it's the specialist or spirit that's my question. host: it is certainly a topic whenever we talk about ebt or food stamps programs. it was in 2021. there was a program about snap food benefits. heather taylor was our guest. if you want to go back and watch that on her website, this is a topic we've done plenty of times. there are plenty of other options and i guarantee that caller asked that question during those programs. it's a chance to take a dive into the c-span video archive. there are several hundred hours

for you to look at. this is todd in wisconsin. good morning. caller: there are a couple of like a things i would like to look into. one is for people coming across the border into the united states. there are folks out there who would hire them. also, they would be responsible for them in the united states. during that time, they are also responsible for taking care of them and putting them back to where they came from. the other thing i would like to see how much the government is spending. the numbers are flying out there. i would love to see the other

spectrum. that is all the money that is coming in at the same time. i think we have to do that stuff. host: you're referring to the debt clock we often show here. it's usually this image that gets seen. you can get exactly what you are asking for. that is this next column over. it shows tax revenue in this country. that comes out to about 13,000 per citizen. you can take a look at state revenue as well, local revenue as well. that is a lot more than just that one counter on the national debt. the largest budgets -- budget

items, defense, interest on the debt, a running chart there of interest we are paying on the national debt. take a look. it is the u.s. that clock.org. there is so much there to use. this is john in massachusetts. good morning. caller: thank you very much. i want to say something. during the war, we were funding the nazis through wall street. during that time, people were asking for their rights. people of color are asking for their rights all of the planet.

we were funding the nazis. of the planet. while they are taking over africa, through basically china -- they start grabbing all the resources from over there. africa feeds the world. where do people of color get to be in peace when colonial imperialism for 400 years has been overturning countries with oil and resources? where is the justice in that. the rich elite and everybody else supported fascism, communism. you are the people who created communism and fascism. host: all right. that was john in massachusetts. caller: i would just like to comment on social security. if we put 2% tax on medicare and

social security, along with the matching employers, and raising the cap, a limit the cap on the top end, this should help us have a long-term solution for social security and medicare. host: would you be willing to pay 4% more? caller: yes. host: you think that's fair? caller: it would be equal through the entire system for rich, poor, middle class. i think it would be fair. it would help solutions. host: that was gary in ohio. this is anthony in baltimore. caller: good morning to you. i would like to start a national book club. i would like everybody in this country who can read to get a copy of the art of war.

it's a wonderful book to read it. it's not a long book at all. i think it would give people a real understanding of chinese thinking and strategy. the chinese aren't going to blow up this country. they aren't going to drop nuclear bombs. they don't want to. they are going to the fetus without firing a shot. if we don't go back to some of the fundamentals that made america the great nation it is. this is the best human experiment in the history of mankind. we are not doing the things that any nation needs to do to protect its values.

go back. grab the art of war by sun tzu. it will certainly help us in these coming challenges with our adversary. thank you so much. host: what are you reading right now? caller: i just got finished reading for the third time the art of war again. i am fascinated by asian chert. the japanese have wonderful stuff. it's just a fascinating part of the world. they are the most energetic people. it's a wonderful connection. we don't need to be alien from that part of world. we need to understand it a bit more so we can preserve the values that we have built and made in such a positive part of

what goes. we've got our problems. america has been a major plus in the world in terms of lifting the values and well-being of people all over the world. i'm an african-american man. with all the issues we've confronted, we are the best human experiment in the history of the world. we need to value what we've built. thank you so much. host: we've got about 15 minutes left. good morning. caller: good morning. i just watched your program with the guy from the manhattan institute. he answered a lot of good questions. corporate greed, it's billionaire greed. donald trump accounts for 25% of

the national deficit. not one time today refused to raise the debt limit. also during the trump administration, the federal reserve gave out trillions of dollars in free money that changed housing in america. investors got that free money and bought apartments, they bought housing, they got anything and everything and raise the rent. we really need to get together and decide what americans want. we need to get rid of corporate greed. capitalism is great. the rich need to pay their share and that is not holding $100 billion, $200 billion in cash that they don't have to pay tax

on it. the richest family in america pays no taxes because their money goes into a trust or a foundation and then it pays the family. anthony is right. we need to figure this out. hating people because of what they believe is not right. host: that was joe in west virginia. from the pages of the washington post, this is the column on the economy. she is an editorial writer focused on the economy. this is how she says it:

that was heather long and her column, it is almost too good to be true. if you want to read that in the washington post. sandra is in louisiana. i hear you are typing.

go ahead. caller: hello there? host: one more try. go for it. caller: i am calling -- can you hear me? host: you've got to listen through your phone and turn down your television. try to do that when you call in. this is david in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. we hit the debt ceiling a couple of weeks ago. the republic hasn't failed. we are living within our means right now. they are not taking new charges on the credit card. as your previous caller said, we have to punish success. what did they think pays for

these bills? how do think they have these restaurants and theaters and apartments? we gave people money to pay their rent. the medium sized apartment owners suffered. when they tried to get the money from the people, the judges said there's a moratorium. we had the crazy socialist experience of trying to socialize everything. host: rua property owner? caller: no. i do own property. i don't run out. i have it for investment. personal property, 16 acres of land. several of my friends do. they have complained that their rental payments were pushed back over a year. when they wrote certified

letters, they said the government says you can't throw me out. they knew people were bragging that they got there rental money. people have to be held accountable. even in the tax credit, bernie sanders waited to sign the deal so he could get a lower tax break. never did he think president trump for the plan that was passed. a lot of these liberal politicians do the same thing. they invested well. host: i imagine you're not a fan of the government paying off student loans. caller: i paid off my student

loans. we've been having the moratorium. these people go out and buy a $1300 iphone. they get a new and ever really are. if they put $100 toward their student debt, they would have a better credit score. it was the democrats who changed the student loan program to a federal debt obligation. the banks don't loan money. the government does. the federal government is part of the problem. host: when do you think we were in a place where people were being held accountable for things they owed? the thing we are not doing anymore, when did we do that? caller: in the first two years

of the trump administration, people were held accountable. they got a better tax rate from the trump administration so they paid their taxes because it was fair. host: that is david in pennsylvania. this is ed in west virginia. caller: i am 88. all they've got to do is take a family of four, whenever it comes to, 2% of what cost for a family of four to live for one year, everybody gets the same amount. i got a $100 raise. a friend got over $200. when we go to the filling station, my friend and me pay the same price for gasoline.

they got twice as big a raise. how do you figure that? host: this is built out of the garden state. good morning. caller: good morning. i am calling about the rhetoric that comes out about the rich pain the fair share. they are never going to do anything about that. they will wind up beating the taxes. what i suggest is everybody should pay social security. it used to be $117,000. then they raised it to 134 thousand. if everybody paid social security they should pay social security all that money. employers should pay that half. we would never have to worry

about social security again. i would suggest when they write the bill for people, the new money that comes in. the employees should go into social security and the employer's should go for the next 10 years. if we do that, thank you. host: that was bill in new jersey. we've got about five minutes left. one of the story that point you toward this morning, the latest look at the california senate race in 2024. barbara lee is planning to announce her campaign for senate by the end of february.

she said she's timing her announcement to coincide with plaque history month. she is poised to be the first black woman that two of her colleagues have already entered. with the unique top two primary system, her entrant could set up a heated fight that could divide democrats in the most populous state. lee is 76. porter is 49. they represent of's are white. tiant and feinstein -- dianne feinstein has filed paperwork to run for reelection in her seat in 2024. whether or not she will seek the term, many predict that she will retire. gavin newsom promised to appoint a black woman to the senate if dianne feinstein steps down

before the end of her term. back to your calls. good morning. caller: good morning. i am going back to the statement about the survey of the balloons that were flying over the country. i would like to know why are the people so up in arms about balloons. we have the best intelligence in the world. i was watching a gentleman on the program this morning. what about all the other places? they had no worry about the chinese doing anything to the u.s.. thank you. host: are you concerned about how many we have detected and shot down since a week ago?

we are on our fourth in nine days when it comes to these objects. the frequency is something members of congress have discussed. caller: just like the general said, there is no way. this is something that they already know about. they are not putting it out to the public. we have the best intelligence there is in the world. it's nothing to worry about. host: now that it is out of the public and we have had four of these shot down, do you think the president needs to address this? speak with the nation about this , do some explanation about what this is? caller: i think he will address

the public. at the same time, they have it under control. the general admitted that they have this under control. host: that was eve in michigan. this is diane in arizona. good morning. caller: president biden does not want to build a wall or stop all this fits going on. what i called about is he wants a wall around his house. why can't we put a lien against his home and that money goes back into government funds? caller: host: this is dell in north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say, this country was

never well-off. we started off with slavery. we had tax breaks for corporations. the republicans want to call -- they want to talk about the republicans. at the end of the day, they haven't had the chance to be in office. host: that was our last caller on washington journal. we will be back here tomorrow morning. it is 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, have a great monday.

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