impacted american culture, history and further presidential agendas. the new york times was so impressed they had a headline that said king george eats hotdogs and drinks beer and asked for seconds. there was a political motive here. this was before the u.s. entered the second world war. fdr feared hitler and wanted to join the allies against germany but the u.s. wasn't in isolation ist -- was in an isolationist mood. but he realized if he could humanize the king and queen it might help to sway the public mood.

this was a theatrical moment that was orchestrated. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. start your day with washington journal, your window into the nation's capital. the only naturalize forum to discuss issues in washington and around the country. >> it gives people the opportunity to speak for themselves. join us for a live three hour conversation. speech that's unpopular can still be heard.

thank you for bringing a balanced discussion the policy issues. you can watch washington journal live every morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, c-span live or c-span.org. with us next is josh: who is the executive director director of fairplay. we will be talking about kids and online safety. he testified this week looking into the very issue. tell us about your organization fairplay? what is your message and how are you funded? guest: thank you so much for having me. fairplay is an advocacy organization dedicated to building a world where kids can be kids free of the manipulation of big tech. we want to keep kids safe online

and make sure they can get the off-line time they need in order to really thrive. we are funded by foundations and individual donations that we have a strict policy of not taking any corporate donations from the tech industry. preteens are now spending about 5.5 hours a day online, just entertainment. watching videos on social media. the figure does not include homework or time they are in school. teens it is up to 8.5 hours a day just for entertainment. if you kind of think about it, 24 hour day, throw in time for sleep and being at school, it is about all of the time there in school and not sleep. >> axios did a story about the types of social media change in percentage of teens who use seleka social media platforms.

it is hard to keep track of what kids are watching online. i want to get your reaction to this. changes axios shows kids are doing up from between 2014-2015 the current day 2022. the use of instagram is up 10%. the a snapshot of 15%. facebook down 30%. timber down 9%. youtube strong, 95%. with instagram and snapshot, why is viewership up? guest: facebook is consider a platform for people my age these days. young people do not want to be caught dead on places where their parents and grandparents hangout. snapchat has risen in popularity because of the disappearing met -- message feature. it has become a place where kids

communicate with each other and in group test very much. tiktok is what you did not mention. it has been a huge rise over the last several years. their algorithm and their short form video platform is so good at capturing kids attention and getting them in the state where they go from one video to the next. instagram is a platform to clay pop -- popular with young girls all focus around appearance in the filters you can be on pictures in order to make yourself look in a weight maybe you do not look in real life. a lot of these platforms that have risen in popularity are visual basic platforms where you are consuming or posting videos of pictures. the research shows those can be the worse 14 mental health. host: josh golin is our guest. rep focusing on kids and online safety.

here are the lines to use if you want to join the conversation. eastern/central timezones, 202-748-8000. mountain/pacific timezones, 202-748-8001. if you are a parent of a kid, a young kid or teenager, we would like to hear from parents in particular. that line is 202-748-8002. what is your organization? what is fairplay do to help parents and teachers or administrators? helping them cope with kids use of social media. guest: we offer advice to parents and to school districts but our focus is much more on what the platforms themselves are doing and how we can create policies that create a healthy video file is for kids. link kids spent 8.5 hours a day on these platforms, it is unrealistic to expect parents to

monitor that. also one of the things people say, keep your kids off of these platforms. the fact of the matter is as kids enter adolescence, the most important thing is to be with their peer group is and all of your peers are online. glass like my kid from their peers and worry about them being lonely -- do i isolate my kids from their peers and worry about them being lonely? while i look to be aligned with the harmful content -- do i let them be online with harmful content? it is a catch-22 for content. we are focused on how can we make the program safer. one the things we will talk more about today is platforms are designed to addict our kids. they are designed to check as often and they do that are often harmful to kids.

there are these parents can do and i would say, the most important thing is no device is allowed at the bedroom. assumption time for you take the phones from your kids are shutting out your wi-fi for the night. one of the things we know is that these devices and social media platforms are really disrupting to sleep and not getting enough sleep is linked to that outcomes -- to bad outcomes. we think parents need help. for in a mental health crisis. for social media addiction crisis and parents need help in putting the burden on parents is not going to work. host: did a factors we talked about -- the addictive factors we talked about a place to kids and adults as well. does it means addressing that to kids and adults on the addictive nature of online platforms? guest: that is absolutely true.

i think most adults i know, including myself, probably really struggle to moderate our own use. children's brains are developing. they are more vulnerable to the design tactics, pressure tactics and peer pressure to be on social media. i would love to see these platforms be designed in different ways there were more healthy for adults as well, but the most important thing for my perspective is how can we at least make the changes that allow our case to go up in a healthier media environment and not feel if i'm not on instagram and tiktok 24/7 i am letting my friends down. i am missing out the most exciting thing going on in the world. so kids can get things like sleep and exercise and face-to-face interactions which are so important to developing empathy, relationships, camaraderie, and teamwork. i would love for the stuff to better for adults. i clicked put her ears ago

because i think -- i quit twitter years ago because i think it is a vast wasteland. host: josh golin is our guest with fairplay. we welcome parents online, parents of kids and teens as well, your number is 202-748-8002. eastern/central timezones, 202-748-8000. mountain/pacific timezones, 202-748-8001. you testified this week for the senate judiciary committee. i want to hear some of what you had to say to that committee. was it for you the comments of senator whitehouse on an issue he focus on in the hearing. here is senator whitehouse. [video clip] >> we are having a bipartisan moment here today with the blooming call blackman

legislation, and i would be prepared to make a bet that if we took a vote on a plane section 230 repeal, it was clear this committee with virtually every vote. the problem where we bogged down as we want to 30 plus, was a rebuilt 230 and have x, y, z. we do not agree with the xyz are. i would encourage each of you, if you wish, to take a moment when the hearing is over, and write down what you would like to see with respect to section 230. if this is not your area, fine, do not bother. would you be happy with a flat 230 repeal? would you like to see 230 repeal with two or three things added?

what would your reclamation speak for look at this? host: section 230. if you to briefly explain that and what was your reaction after hearing that from senator whitehouse? guest: for the viewers, section 230 is a law that says online platforms, social media platforms are not responsible for the content that their users post. they are not liable by posting something threatening to attack you or say something, the platform itself is not responsible for what the users post. who has been extremely unfortunate -- what has been extremely unfortunate is that courts have interpreted this broadly to mean the platforms basically have no liability for anything. we think there is a clear difference if i just say, i post

content that encourages kids to cut themselves, which there's content like that all of these platforms, that the existence of that is not something necessarily the social media platforms should be liable for, i posited, they cannot catch everything we pose. but once the algorithm start recommending that content to kids, putting it into their feet saying this is the content you're probably going to be interested in, the reason they put the content there is because they think it's going to keep kids scrolling and other devices as long as possible. must those companies put their finger on the scale to maximize their profit, we do not think they should be protected anymore. we think section 230 should be amended to make clear what the platforms are designed and algorithms are not protected speech which would allow us to continue to have social media platforms where there is user generated content, but make a much safer because the platforms would have to be really careful about what they're pushing on kids.

host: i'm going to share our viewers policy recommendations from fairpla guest: when i -- what i talked about in my testimony and what fairplay bies is we need to expand privacy protections to teens. we have one law that protects kids online, children's online privacy and protection act. it is 25 years old and only covered kids up until the 13th birthday. there is no other contexts will retreat a 13-year-old and i don't but it is what we do on the internet every single day. teens need protection two. need abandonment traded -- data-driven advertising. it allows companies to target kids with extreme vulnerabilities. facebook had a memo they gave to advertisers where they were bragging about how they could

target as to kids at the exact moment they were feeling bad about themselves including when they were feeling about their bodies. we did not want that. kids and he's insecurities and not trip, we do not want that to be a business opportunity. all the data collected for advertising purposes is used in other harmful ways. we believe these companies should have a duty of care to prevent and mitigate the worse harms the case. right now, their only obligation is to their shareholders to maximize profits. how do they maximize profits? by keeping kids on as long as possible serving them content that is most likely to keep them online regardless if the content is good for them or not. we need to put brakes on the business model and say you have an obligation to kids and families as well. we also think all the default settings on these platforms for kids should be on the most protective setting by default.

right now, if you're a parent or a kid yourself and you want to have a safer experience, you got to figure out and work your way through a maze of 60 settings in order to figure out how to do it. it is not easy. why not start from a place for things like location is turned off by default? settings is private by default rather than being public. why not start from a same spot? we think we should prohibit the use of dark patterns. whenever the tactics used all of us to keep us -- manipulative tactics used on all of us to keep us all mine longer. -- keep us online longer. we think we need more enforcement. we think there should be a division at the federal -- federal trade commission dedicated to protecting children online. right now, there is not enough enforcement of existing laws and if we get more protections for

children legislation are going to need more regulation. it is important we have a cop on the beat that is making sure these policies want to see or enforce. host: we have calls for josh golin. if folks want to read more the website for fairplay is fairplay for kids.org. mary in wisconsin. mary is on our parents line. caller: good morning. parents need to say no to their children. big tech needs to realize all those people have their children -- that should be a red flag. kids nowadays cannot write a letter, you do not see them playing outside, unable to cultivate friendships in school. they cannot deal with their emotions in the development personalities that causes more

bullies and children are spending more time at home, maybe not having a parent monitoring what they are seeing on a computer. i think the worse thing for the government will be -- would be to pay for people to have the internet. people having the internet are not learning anything. her going on websites that are bad -- they are going on the websites that are bad for their brains. the boy's brain does not mature into the air 28 years old and the girls 27 years old. the last things parents used to use babysitter now they're using a tablet for a babysitter. schoolteachers remove computers otherwise kids would not be able to be critical thinkers in a row going to be in trouble later in life and their children will have problems. host: several points there. guest: i agree with mary that

this is shaping kids in ways that are extremely concerning. their ability to concentrate. their ability to form friendships. their ability to develop empathy. there learning. i absolutely agree this is something of concern. i do think it is important everybody has internet access. it is a fact of life. more and more of the world is moving online. not having access to the internet could me not having access to school, and having access to banking, all sorts of things we need to move through the world. but that is not mean just because we have access that should be a free for all and it is what we advocate for policies that would create safeguards for case and make it easier for them to not be online all of the time. ashley agree. -- i absolutely agree. far too much of our kids education is moving online. not just in remote schooling

during pandemic in the classroom. -- but in the classroom. it is sad when you have seven-year-old on their ipads rather than using their hands and all of their senses to learn give a noisy classroom because kids are talking to each other and learning from each other and are you going to second grade classroom and it is quite as their own alon -- it is quiet because they are all on their ipads. these are all things that are having an enormous impact on how our kids are growing up. host: she majors something like tech free schools. have you ever heard of that concept? guest: i have heard of that as he schools which are private schools, very tech free. i think of until seventh grade or something like that.

i do not think kids should be unscreened in schools until third or fourth grade and they should be slowly introduced and the majority of their time should be hands-on learning. kids learn better with hands on learning. they learn better when they interact with their peers face to work in small groups and learn from each other. we all a society have a bill of goods by the tech companies that their algorithm are going to teach our kids better when really is about their profits. host: emory in virginia. caller: hi. i really appreciate you talking about this. it is so important. i was in a portion of the hearing in between doing things for my work and it was shocking. testimony from the first mother

was talking about how she did all of these things right. for example, keeping my kids off of our cell phones and not giving them a cell phone until they are certain age. monitoring things. he had a job. he had a life. he was 16 years old. he was cyber bullied by these programs were people could be anonymous and how is that legal? it is shocking this kid. also listening to child pornography factor, there not enough police enforcement online and monitoring of this activity. it really is taking your child and putting them on a corner street and leaving them alone. that's the equivalent of what it is today. host: thank you for sharing that. need thoughts? guest: she referring to mom who

testified when her son carson died by suicide when he was bullied by anonymous axons that check. he was being tormented and he did not know where the messages were coming from. he knew he followed them on snapchat but he did not know who they were. this is one of the reasons why for these policies -- while we advocate for these policies because there is a long history if you give teens the ability to talk to each other anonymously on the internet, they are going to abuse that. they're going to be mean to each other. they're going to bully each other. if they had an obligation to figure out if we at this and future, is it good for kids are not, they would not have implemented that feature and her son will be alive today. this is what we are asking for. we are asking for companies to evaluate these features and

their algorithms because the only stem on our children and create these unsafe situations. host: the cdc had a report out on the health of teenage kids, girls in particular. u.s. teen girls experience increased sadness and a part of that focused on bullying, boys and girls, and the report they say 16% o high school students lectrically bulnd clearly through texting, instagram, cebook and other social media during the past ears students were more likely to be bullied than most students. lgbtq plus students and students who had anything sex partners were more likely to be electronically bullied. what is it that these companies need to do more aggressively to

help stop that? guest: it is about how they are designed. they are designed features and things not allowing anonymous acts would be a good thing, but also it is the way these platforms are designed popularity which i think is a huge piece of the equation. on all of these platforms, everything you do and say is quantified and your giving a score on it. in the forms of how many likes you get and how many shares you get and how many views you get at yourself. how many followers you have, how many friends you have. kids are being taught the most important thing to do is to get attention online. so you can show you our core and popular through these metrics. there are -- they are incredibly powerful and tap into teens

developing brains and their need for validation and need to be seen as cool and popular among their peers. what do kids learn? they learn to be mean, provocative, posting provocative pictures is the best way to get attention online. as long as we have an attention economy and very teaching case most important thing is to get attention online and it does not matter that attention is good or bad, it is just getting attention we are going to have kids being really mean to each other because that will get you attention. the platforms love it. the more kids fight with each other, it means the more the kids are going back to the platform to fight with their peers or to watch the fighting that is going on. one of the most heartbreaking things that is happening in our schools is that our fights breaking out regularly and why the kids doing that are there,

break up the fight, reported a fight? no, they're all standing around recording hoping to get the best footage for the kids fighting so they can get the views online. we need to disrupt that. host: to indiana, good morning to tracy. you are on. caller: there is a site being developed now because parents real-time notifications when there kids do something out of the norm. it is a great site. i was looking at it online. i know i was talking to the ceo and he is trying to give people a good experience social media. i know there are other people working on things to help with this. constructive criticism between the users and the bickering and offers help when they need help

with counseling, any type of mental illness or military veteran services. it was a great platform. host: are you aware of them? guest: i'm not aware of that particular platform. i do think there are technological solutions that can help but i also think we need to focus not just on how to stop things after they happen or as they are in process, but we need to work on building these platforms so they are safer in the first place. the problem is these platforms make more money the more our kids are online. as long as that is the kids, as long as a's they are designing their platform strictly to keep our kids eyeballs and attention focus on their platforms, as must be a lot of harm that occurs in that crisis. this is why we want to change the way the platforms are designed to help, yes, spotless

cyber bullying when it is happening and technological tools may be possible to help it happen, it also design platform so it is less likely bullying a core -- occur or be rewarded in the first place. host: your organization fair play was one of the lead promoters, sponsors of the 2022 only act and the treasurer and teen privacy protection act. was so far has been the effect of that legislation? what is it intended to do? guest: we are big supporters of two bills. children and teen online provider -- privacy protection act and the kids on my safety act. these two bills within targeted advertising take children, it would give teens privacy

protection for the first time. the kids on my safety act would create the duty of care. these platforms have a responsibility to prevent and mitigate content or design that causes addictive behaviors or addictive patterns of use on the platform promoting eating disorders, promoting self-harm, promoting cyber bullying. all these concerns parents have about horrible content the kitchen counter online, these platforms would have a duty to mitigate -- these platforms would have a duty to mitigate what happens online. you express is concern of the way you look or if you look for a recipe or dieting tip, within minutes, the platforms will be feeding you content about how to starve yourself. content that teaches you how to have an eating disorder. if you indicate you are depressed, the platforms will be

due content about how to harm yourself. we need to stop that and that is with the duty of care will do. the bills or do other things like create transparency requirements, better enforcement mechanisms, this would be a change. i mentioned earlier we have not had legislation protecting twitter online in 25 years. when congress passed the bill in 1998, we do not have smartphones, youtube, tiktok, instagram, so we need new legislation the updates for the internet we have not the one back in 1998. that's what the two bills would do. host: back to the parents line. kate in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you c-span. love your show. my questions for the