host: good morning. it is sunday, february 19, 2023. members of the biden administration are in munich, germany this morning. the major focus is supporting ukraine during ongoing conflicts in russia. there was a recent shootdown down of a surveillance drone. this morning, we want to hear from you.

we want you to call us. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. independent, give us a call at (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. if you do so, please leave us your name and where you live.

leave us a comment at facebook.com/c-span. you can also send us a tweet and find us on instagram at c-spanwj. vice president kamala harris at the conference in munich accused russia of committing crimes against humanity, against its war in ukraine, reading from an article, a cnn article, it says that the declaration marks the strongest accusation yet from the u.s. as it seeks to punish moscow for its invasion of ukraine. u.s. government declared last march that --

>> barbaric and inhumane. long before i was vice president of the u.s., i spent the majority of my career as a prosecutor, beginning as a young lawyer in the courtroom and later running the california department of justice. i know firsthand the importance of gathering facts and building them up against the law. in the case of russia's actions in ukraine, we have examined the evidence. we know the legal standards. there is no doubt that these are

crimes against humanity. host: that was vice president kamala harris, speaking just yesterday at this international security conference in munich. we will get your calls in just a moment, but first we want to talk about former president jimmy carter, who announced just yesterday that he decided to enter into the care of hospice. the atlanta journal constitution has its home page dedicated to former president jimmy carter. former president jimmy carter, the georgia native, is the longest living president in u.s. history and decided against further medical treatment and has entered full hospice care. saturday, after a series of short hospital stays, former president jimmy carter decided

to spend his remaining time at home with his family and receive hospice care, instead of additional medical intervention. he has the full support of his family and medical team. at carter family asks for privacy during this time and is grateful for the concern shown by his the admirers. we are going to bring up the fourth -- he has been on c-span a lot over the years. here is video of him on the channel's afterwards program, talking about his white house diary. here is a clip of him responding to a question about the iranian hostage crisis. >> iran was such a big part of your administration and white house ivs.

there are to be of white houses, the carter white house and then dealing with the crate -- hostage crisis white house. is there something that you would have done different? you said you had an extra helicopter on the mission, but looking at that situation, do you wish you had done something differently? ? really. if i had known completely what was going to happen, i might have done something different, but i do not think so under the circumstances. i was the last holdout on my management team. henry kissinger and vance, and all of my advisors said it was the humanitarian thing to do, so i contacted the president and prime minister of iran.

i told him what i was contemplating for treatment and i wanted assurance from them that they would contact americans. there were more than 80,000 americans in iran, including 56 members of the embassy. they sent me word that they would guarantee that nothing would happen to americans, provided we did not make any sort of clinical statement. they gave me that assurance. to the surprise of me, and i think to the surprise of the president and prime minister of iran, the militants took hostages. after three days, then both the

president and prime minister resigned in protest. that was just the beginning of a long ordeal, where they held hostages. i do not believe i would have done anything differently. i was convinced that had i done so, i would have killed innocent iranians, and they could have executed the hostages. host: that was former president jimmy carter speaking in 2010 about his white house diary and about the iranian hostage crisis. you can find that full interview and other videos of president carter and the c-span video

library. just go to our website and search jimmy carter. again, he didn't us yesterday that he has entered hospice care. we will go back to the question of the day now. what is the top foreign policy challenge facing the u.s.? if you are a democrat, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are an independent, call us at (202) 748-8002. and if you are a republican, call us as -- at (202) 748-8001. caller: i am calling to ask you a question. i switched to c-span from the regular channels because i wanted to watch and unbiased

point of view, but lo and behold, i am flipping the channels on msnbc and cnn. so that is my comment for today. host: we are already having robust conversation on our facebook page. again, our line for republicans is (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independent (202) 748-8002. on facebook, here are some of the comments we are already receiving. adopting a consistent -- the answer to the question, what is the top foreign policy challenge? russia, in the short term, china and the long term.

moses writes, how to stop china and russia from plunging the world into chaos. another rights, very simple, will this administration change its border policies because of what has been taking place because of the biden political narrative? will the biden administration have -- instead of -- a violation of national security and publishing so vulnerable, we need to make more at home. we want to hear from you.

what is the top challenge facing the u.s.? we have a call from philadelphia. milton on the democratic line, how do you answer that question? caller: i would like to say two things. my thoughts and prayers are with president carter and my condolences go out to a police officer that was killed in philadelphia overnight. my thoughts and prayers are with him and his family. good on president biden for standing up to russia. if vladimir putin is not

stopped, he might try to take out your. all those that are sympathetic to vladimir putin, if you agree with what russia is doing, you moved to moscow. that is my comment. host: if you're not familiar with what he just mentioned, they require that -- a police officer was shot and killed in a carjacking incident, according to the philadelphia police. that happened last night. we are going back to get answers to your question. lori in pennsylvania on the democratic line. you are on. caller: the top priority should be to hold a coalition together with nato and other countries.

biotin has to hold it together. he has to hold it together and congress has to work with him. host: john is calling from mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. caller: thank you for taking my call. the biggest one going forward is our nation's debt. i think it will be a burden on our future generation. it will be very dangerous for our country. endless wars. i have seen multiple wars throughout my life and not a lot

accomplished during those wars. we are about to enter another war. i would say that the dead of our nation and the seemingly endless wars that do not accomplish much, they are the biggest policy issues facing our future. host: that is john in pennsylvania. kristin is calling from woodbridge, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. the most important foreign policy issues are many. certainly, the proxy war going on with russia right now should the front and center, on all of our minds to be a topic on c-span every single morning.

since the war began, we have given more money to zelenskyy, who is questionable, and we all seem to be under his spell. i think vladimir putin is winning this war. i think he is documenting it daily. gdp is growing and the ruble is strong. the u.s. is spending itself into oblivion. one day, we will wake up and the currency is going to be worse. it happens all the time, throughout history. when that day comes, we will be like, what did we do? somebody made a big mistake, not taking care of the debt and the endless spending. host: our next caller is leah

from butler, missouri. good morning. caller: i am not leah. host: my apologies. caller: i was curious about the caller from the adelphia talking about how joe biden -- i cannot really see it because i think it is joe biden's fault that all this fentanyl and stuff is coming across the southern border because he is trying to make everybody think that the border is closed, when it is not closed. we all know that it is not closed. he did not let -- he screwed up thereby doing that. he screwed up all the way around.

the last caller talking about oblivion. that is because joe biden and the democratic administration -- not the regular democrats, just the ones in congress. if joe biden was so good, why didn't he take out the people first in afghanistan before he pulled everything else out and everything? i have had it. i am just fed up with everything going on. we need to get back to living our lives like we should. no warriors. we do not need to keep giving money to ukraine. they have enough money. enough with that. let things take place without biden stepping in. he is not even running our

country. i'm curious who is behind him, telling him what to do. he is just a puppet on a string. host: from birmingham, alabama. caller: good morning. my favorite president, president jimmy carter. the chinese communist party and democracy -- america laid down in the bed with china years ago and treated the monopoly on the world. they do not mix. you cannot mix democracy with communism, and that is where the problem is. during that administration, they

allowed china into the wto. they allowed china to get all kinds of benefits because the government of this country was in bed with microsoft, nike and all. they wanted to set up camp in china. and what happened? covid-19 exposed everything. if they had not taken all the businesses, we would not have gotten caught up in that. you cannot mix it with democracy. host: let's go to the democratic

line. caller: [indiscernible] my mother passed away on friday. she was a breast cancer survivor . [indiscernible] host: i think we lost darrell. we'll have to move on. jan and -- jim, you are on. caller: can you hear me? i just wanted to say, the very first caller, god bless the guy.

i said the same thing. i was amazed to see you on ms nbc as a person to the left. one of your firm -- former moderators, an african-american lady, is a regular contributor to msnbc. the equivalent would be if greta showed up on fox news. these people are pretty upset about that. host: just that you know, i am here to host washington journal and to hear from you, so the next person up as bronx, new york on the democratic line. what is your question? >> -- caller: i think everything going on today is just destroying everything that we are trying to build as a nation. the war in ukraine is an affront

on the innocence of the people and as long as the whole world is sitting back and letting vladimir putin do whatever he is wanting to do, it is wrong. we should stop him. the moment he stepped foot in a sovereign, -- country, the world should have come together to stop him. he is a dictator, and he is in his glory right now because he is persecuting innocent people for what he wants, and he wants that nuclear plant in the middle of that country. when he gets what he wants, where do you think the first bomb will be dropped? this is the first place he is going to aim, so i think that we should put into it now.

stop him before he gets what he truly wants. a sovereign nation trying to use their power to go into another country, to get something that he wants. he is a dictator. i cannot even talk straight, but you have to cut him off at the knees. if i was the president, as soon as he crossed the border. host: let's go to our next caller in broadway, virginia. jerry, go ahead. caller: good morning c-span. the person percent vis-a-vis our president works for the communist party.

[indiscernible] military facilities? host: ok. on the line, on independent line from historian, new york. what is your question? caller: you know what the biggest thing is that i respect? live and let live. the problem is, everybody has this thing hanging over them, but eventually, you're going to die. some people want to make everything under them because they figured out they want to live longer. trump is totally insane.

you know why? any service he gets, he does not want to pay for, so this thing is going on and it is not there. the only thing i have to say with russia and that is we had a position that we want to say, we are perfectly right and you are perfectly wrong. respect that every human being has everything that god created in them. if you see somebody week, you help them. if you look at somebody strong, you look for them to help you. laws in the u.s. are like a string with cups. it is so slow. it is ridiculous.

everything else is going at the speed of light. anybody that creates any problem or breaks the law, look at trump. he will not see any time in jail. but he is not being kind or respectful towards everybody. what is the first thing he says to joe biden? he is asleep. you know why he is slow? because he does not want to stutter. we get stronger when we think. first you think and then you talk. host: joseph, we appreciate your call. we have to move on to our next caller from tamarac, florida, on the democratic line. it morning to you.

caller: good moin calling about the russia and ukraine were. i am i sixth and ierinly feel that this is the most important more that the u.s. has been in since i was born. these republicans calling in, saying that we should get out, that is utterly ridiculo. vladimir putin needs to be stopped. he has committed atrocities around the world for the last 20 years and this is just ridiculous, why we have to bob and weave, be careful of what we say so that we do not get other republicans upset. the man that just called and was absolutely right. this really needs to stop because we have a bigger war at home between republicans and democrats. democrats just want democracy

and to have freedom. thank you. host: our next caller is janie from washington dc. what is the top problem facing the u.s.? caller: sorry. i meant to call on the democratic line. without a doubt, all the resources over there, i cannot understand why negotiation has not been started from day one. the main object than of vladimir putin, i do not see why it cannot be granted. it is very unfortunate. can you imagine having to live through that?

it is getting closer with this policy. they have some kind of way to make things a lot better. we could use those resources here. thank you very much. host: next step, we have dusty from myrtle beach, south carolina. you are on. caller: the first thing i would like to say is that the lady from missouri needs to do some research and fact checking. to realize what biden is doing for this country. my first comment is this.

you know, as well as i do, because i have seen you on the networks that china does not want to fight with the u.s. and the u.s. does not want to fight with china. we need china for our economy and they need us for their economy. i hope i said that right. vladimir putin is an evil man. this is just my opinion. donald trump and vladimir putin are like best friends. trump even said he believed their military advisers over hours think about this.

trump's first impeachment is because he tried to bribe zelenskyy. zelenskyy let us know what was going on and we caught trump in that lie. i have no doubt come in my mind because this is the way donald trump operate. any politician that went against him, they lost their election. donald trump is right in the middle of this because this is payback. trump knew that it was going to

hurt our economy and make vladimir putin look bad, but to be old birds with one stone. she is paying zelenskyy back for getting him in trouble, but trump is the one that caused it, but he is so childish. he never accepts any blame for anything. host: we appreciate your call and i want to bring up some video. this is republican senator josh hawley who spoke about u.s. policy towards china at an event at the heritage foundation in washington, last week. here is a portion of senator hawley's remarks. plus dozens of lawmakers, experts and talking heads have claimed that an invasion of taiwan will not happen or that if it does, we will prevail.

they said china is afraid to challenge us. they refuse to tell -- it has become a bedtime story in the community, which goes like this that winning the cold war allows us to police the world for all time, no problem. they want us to believe that our military might is infinite and that we should use it to reshape the world. they want us to believe that we can fight in this proxy war and ukraine and that none of this will deter our ability to stop china from invading taiwan or to deter our ability. curiously enough, this story of the empire is not particularly partisan. it is told by conservatives on the right and left. together, they make up the d.c.

establishment that transcends all administrations. it is hard to tell with them. they have gotten pretty good at telling their favorite story, which is why anyone who questions them gets labeled as putin's puppet. i thought we would try something a little unique. i thought we would try telling the truth. the truth is that americans have been sold goods. our foreign policy is not working, and it can -- it has not worked for decades. it is not working for our economy and it is not working for the american people. host: that is the senator from missouri. he was speaking at an event at the heritage foundation.

this is today's front page, and there is an article with the headline saying, reviewing chinese metaverse by balloon, a face-to-face talk. holding what american officials described as a confrontational meeting with his chinese counterpart on saturday night in munich, warning that it must never happen again. he also cautioned beijing against providing support to ukraine saying that they were strongly considering. they resume diplomatic contact after breaking down over the balloon episode. they said nothing about how the chinese official responded, but

a brief summary on media described in equally sharp exchange. face-to-face talks between the u.s. and china a little bit tense in munich, but we want to hear from you. what is the top policy challenge facing the u.s.? if you are a republican, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8001 . if you are a democrat, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are an independent, the number is (202) 748-8002. we are going back to the phone lines right now. what is your answer to this morning's question? quite -- caller: you know, what we said

about vietnam, iraq and iran, afghanistan -- how did it happen? how does this happen to us? right now, we are not being told the truth. one more time, we are not being told the truth. we need to look for the truth and ask our people to tell us the truth because the truth will set us free. host: let's go to portland, tennessee. you are on, paul. caller: thank you. thank you for playing senator

holly and the other thing that you play because it will lead perfectly into what i want to say. i'm sorry to hear about president carter. i served under him, just like i served under several presidents. here is the thing. we need to start thinking as americans and quit thinking as republican, democrats and independent. we need to think as americans. what senator hawley said, we did not inc. we were going to go to war in world war i or world war ii. and we do not think we are going to go to war in world war iii. think about it. what have we done since world war i? we have a united nations. we have nato and members in

nato. we cannot keep going out in the world and trusting everybody, and trying to be the big guy on the block. no matter what political party you are. anybody you has been in a knows that. any man or woman who has been in war knows that. talk about vladimir putin. we are a member of nato and one of the things about nato is that an attack on one is an attack on all, but nato should be leading that. that is what nato was created for. we are just one vote in nato. let's go back and talk about

china and how we are economically tied. that balloon that went over was real. also, the last 48 hours, the russians have been getting their gent close to alaskan airspace. it is on c-span. host: we will go to the independent line. go ahead. caller: i want to make one comment. good morning. then i will get your national security question. i think it should be shameful working for msnbc. that is sheer rubbish.

you should be ashamed of yourself. the number one national security issue in the oval office -- look at what happened to foreign policy in afghanistan. just remember what happened and what he did in afghanistan. we still have people trying to get the u.s., that helped us in that wire, we gave a promise in and they are not allowed. that was completely embarrassing. secondly, these loons. he said he active decisively by shooting the chinese spy balloon, after it completed its

mission, but he active decisively. the guy is a complete joke. he does not even know what it was. nobody knows what these things were. he thinks he did a great job. he shot down two balloons that nobody even knows what they were. thirdly, look at his policy towards mexico. towards mexico. they are doing whatever they want. just let them in. this guy is a complete joke. as far as ukraine, he was going to bring them to their knees. that is what they said.

we are going to cut off and completely shut up economically, russia. that is not happening. host: randy in california. step, we have john on the democratic line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. people who are ignorant will say things and they think they know what they are talking about. i appreciate, every time i watch you and you give your opinion on the issues, but that is not why i called. there is a challenge that we have.

america needs to understand one thing. our enemies see people that work for them, selling their agendas. they conclude that we are divided. the sad part is that we were immigrants who came here. people before us built this country. they worked hard to get where we are. today we have people like senator holly. we have ted cruz and people that are not there to protect our country. if you do not defend your president, i do not care about china or russia. i am for the best interest of america. a lot of people died to ensure

the freedom that we are enjoying. they like -- just because they do not like jill biden, it is despicable. i am so angry right now. i cannot believe these people and they are attacking you because you work for in medicine bc. they do not know what they are talking about. they listen to people who manipulate them and tell them lies. we saw what happened, the emails that they have sent to each other. host: for the record, i do not work for msnbc, but i am a contributor on other news channels. on the mornings where i am on c-span, washington journal, my job is to be a host that allows me to hear from as many of you as possible.

joanne on the republican line, what is your question for the day? caller: the biggest thing was afghanistan and how we pulled out of that. my family has fought from world war i, all the way to vietnam. our biggest threat is china. our pharmaceuticals, supply chain. russia and ukraine -- we have so much money. it was brokered that they should come to a peace agreement. we said no.

we have separated families, women and children who is going to rebuild ukraine? the u.s.? we do not have the money. we are borrowing money to pay for a war that we should not have been in. jill biden was late to the party. he went into georgia and nothing happened. we need to be tough on china and our business dealings should never have been under bill clinton. china -- we as americans need to come together. we are all in this together.

something to stop because we can go to a nuclear war. they will pound ukraine into oblivion. what happens these people and the country? ukraine is not a democracy. he shut down all opposition to his presidency. that is not a democracy. we are putting our nose into other people's visit us, and it is wrong. europe should have sucked up. we should not be paying for the whole thing in ukraine. we do not have the money. i'm tired of it. host: jillian in connecticut. let's go to talcott city, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning.

i think most important business for the u.s. right now is ukrainian situation. in order to support ukraine, if you do not do that, poland is going to be next and when poland gets involved, you get the less in there. ukraine, giving everything that they want. secondly, the other important business is china. you have to think newt gingrich, al gore and bill clinton. they were looking for cheap labor. they ran over to china and gave them the blueprints.

they went to work and to blueprint. now you say you are too big to fail. those are two things that are facing the country right now. another thing, ronald reagan. burger king, mcdonald's and everything went to russia. you need to stop the oil exploits and stop buying his oil. if you are buying his oil, you are giving him money. host: all right. we will bring up a few more common on facebook from responding to today's question about foreign policy challenges facing the u.s.

keeping american allies from exiting the u.s. from nato and entering a military alliance with russia. mike writes that the war in ukraine -- charles green writes that status -- they declared war years ago and we continue to more there threat at our own peril. it is time to start believing what they are saying and act accordingly. another writes that bidens decisions are responsible for the death of many americans. again, we want to hear from you. are a republican,20 748-8001. if you are a democrat, call (202) 748-8000. if you are an independent, call (202) 748-8002. our next caller is larry on the democratic line.

what is your question of the day? caller: i am blessed this morning. i am. i was sitting up, listening to you, as well as the callers who called a from from placing. they do not want to see with a job. i never understood it. but i am looking at the question that you asked, what is the top foreign-policy challenge facing the u.s.? in my opinion, i have four or five. number three, north korea, number four russia.

all right here in the last with mr. biden between hate among people of color. that will be the worst one. china can send a balloon from china to the u.s., a spy balloon at that. what you think they can do with a warhead for a nuclear? i just do not get it. we need to wake up. not only in your home but the house and in congress and the senate. they are blaming everything on the president instead of coming up with solutions to help the less -- u.s. we are in a dangerous time, more dangerous than any other. we are still letting people live

homeless in this country. thank you and do not stop doing what you are doing. please do not. host: thank you, larry. we did get a comment on twitter that we want to share. this is from margaret. she writes israel's p.m. said that the u.s. base in syria was attacked. they said yesterday i ran attacked a base in syria and the u.s. has not commented, however the state department said secretary blinken spoke by phone with netanyahu about palestinians, as well as mr. -- regional challenges like a threat posed by iran. that is in response to an attack

in syria. gary in durham, north carolina, how do you answer the question of the day? caller: i think it is a foreign domestic issue and the border issue. there are 20 blimps that report. he knows that one of them is gone, so that will change the number and lower it. he says he wishes that your reporters would interview unaccompanied children, which the number has gone up significantly. some tragic stories being raised. a 12-year-old girl was separated from her mother in mexico and

some random guy brought her across, no issues. i guess she is in foster care now. the big issue is that 300 americans a day die from fentanyl, yet we are spending lands of dollars to save people in ukraine, which i agree that we need to help them, that there is all of europe and other countries that can help them as well. we need to take care of our backyard because it is killing americans. host: let's go now to baton rouge, louisiana. caller: good morning. the biggest problem i can see started back a few years ago when mr. putin invaded crimea.

that was the first time -- he took 60 miles of their territory when obama was president. ukraine was begging us for weaponry to help. we sent them blankets and in our ease. have you ever tried to destroy a tank with a blanket or an mrd? you cannot do it. when trump got in, he sent them javelin missiles, and that helped a little bit. the whole time trump was president, not a single was done by vladimir putin to invade ukraine. when slow joe got in there, here they come, and they totally

destroyed that country. what are we doing about it? sending them a few weapons, and that is it. let me tell you one thing. when that war is over, putin is going to rebuild it is going to be the united states of america. we are getting shafted by the democratic party. host: that is going to end it for us, i do want to let you know that on tuesday at 1:00 p.m. eastern, there will be a discussion on foreign policy in ukraine, nearly one year after russia began its invasion of ukraine, the ukrainian ambassador will discuss how the u.s. and other allies can continue their support in the war effort. you can watch that live on tuesday from the hudson

institute, it will begin at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, and online at c-span.org. now, we are going to take quick break. when we come back, we will have christopher miller, former president trump's acting secretary of defense, discussing his book, "soldier secretary" about his military career, moments in the trump white house in the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol. later, a conversation with bob keefe, the executive director at environmental entrepreneurs. he will talk about the green jobs created under the inflation reduction act in his recent book. we will be back after the break. ♪

>> tonight, a journalist talks about how it has impacted for presidential agendas. >> they have big headlines saying king george eat hotdogs and drinks. and asks for seconds. there was a political motive here, this was before the u.s. entered the second world war. fdr strongly feared hitler's and wanted to join the allies against germany. the u.s. was in an isolationist mood, many americans were still annoyed with great britain for not repaying their first world war debts. but he realized the king and queen were unique couple and if

he could humanize them and make them appealing to the american public, it might help to sway the public mood. this was a coup, a theatrical moment that was orchestrated. >> tonight it :00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a, you can listen to all of our podcast on the free c-span now at. -- app. >> c-span shop is the online store, browse to the latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home to core and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchaser supports nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime online. >> there are a lot of places to

get political information. only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. if it happens here or here or here or anywhere that matters, america is watching on c-span. powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back this morning with christopher miller, he is former acting secretary of defense under president trump and is here to discuss his book, which is titled "soldier secretary." it is about his military career and the final tumultuous days of the trump presidency, including the january 6 attack. thanks for joining us. guest: i am thrilled to be on

your show. i cannot believe it, i started out living in iowa city, join the army at 17. before c-span, let us be clear. here i am, it is amazing. i'm looking forward to this. hopefully, answering some of the questions and dispelling some of the crazy stuff out there. whatever topics you listeners want to cover. host: that is a good way to start the conversation. start out about the book, why did you write it? why now? how is it different from memoirs from other former military officials? guest: hard-hitting, that is what you do. it is extremely approachable, i did that on purpose. i wanted to write a book that was accessible to both those that are in the service right now. 1% of america's best americans serving uniforms--1% of

americans serve in uniforms. i want to bridge the gap. i've seen for a while there is growing misunderstanding between the two, i did not want a classic phonebook memoir where everything, the protagonist is everything perfectly. i wanted to highlight the things , the mistakes i made, to help other people going to public service, into the military and whatnot. that was the goal of the book. i wrote it because i served 37 years in government and ended up not having a job when i left on the 20th of january, 2021. i was afforded the opportunity and decided to take advantage of it. host: how would you describe -- you talk about your military career, which we will get more into. tell us about your politics.

how would you explain your political leanings or where you come from? guest: oh my gosh. that is one of the better questions, i've been doing this a lot. here's how i would describe it. i think we should be bipartisan about national security. i served in uniform -- joined in 83, left in 2014, then i was a government employee. i served every president, regardless of party. you sway your oath, your allegiance to the constitution. i never thought of myself as a political animal. we needed to win the war on terror by defeating al qaeda, that is how i ended up in the trump administration. i was a political appointee for 13 months and served whatever president for 36 years, so bipartisan. my politics are america, protect

america's way of life. that is pretty much it. host: i do want to let all of our viewers and listeners know, we want to get to your questions. any questions you have for former acting secretary of defense, christopher miller. you can ask him about his own career or his thoughts about national security, foreign policy, or share your thoughts or questions. go ahead and start calling. if you are a republican, call (202) 748-8001. if you are a democrat, (202) 748-8000. independent, (202) 748-8002. if you are active or former military, your number is (202) 748-8003. you have your own line for former or active military. we will get to your calls in just a moment. before we do, can you talk a little bit about -- you worked

for many presidents in the military. how did your views of the military and its role align with what you believed former president trump's views on the military and national defense? talk about merging the two, or working under the trump administration. guest: that is a great one, thanks. everybody wants to put you in a certain category when you are in national security, internationalist, isolationist, realist. my goal is always to adjust to the situation that is happening in the world at the time. i was very supportive of president trump's goals, which were to transition from primarily military power to using economic power. we had this thing in the

military, the dime. diplomatic inflammation military economics, four elements of power that are used to advance strategy, develop strategy advance or cause. -- our cause. his goal was to bring americans home and end the endless wars, i talked to veterans in people serving. we all agreed it was time. i was a supporter of getting nato to spend more, but he was unabashed neo-isolationist, he thought it was time for us to bring our troops home, reset the force and figure out how we should adjust for the future, which is -- let us be honest, looks like a rising china and how that will affect the world. i was very supportive of that, as well as his efforts to defeat isis, which we did quite successfully in iraq and syria.

that is a thumbnail, if you do not mind. i could keep going all day. we do not have all day, i want to make sure your viewers and listeners can add. host: one more question before we go to the phone lines. you did an interview with the hill about your book, i'm going to read a little bit of what the hill wrote. it says "soldier secretary" offers an insight into the life of an american soldier who rose briefly to the top of the pentagon as he grew increasingly resentful of the u.s. military-industrial complex. which she writes has now become a quote hydra headed monster with virtually no brakes on the american war machine. still, miller is hopeful the next generation of americans can shape -- shake the u.s. out of foreign entanglements and the idea of policing the rest of the world. in an interview, he said there was a pressing need for accountability in the upper ranks of the pentagon and with

military leadership for the failed wars any rack in afghanistan. -- in iraq and afghanistan. what do you think was the biggest -- you were serving in the military, what was the biggest misstep or blunder at the top of the pentagon when it came to the war in? guest: we should not have gone to war in iraq, period. the reason we went was incorrect. the decision to go in -- i went in and 2003, the initial invasion. that started to open my eyes. as a lowly soldier, you do what you are told. that was the first time i got home right before july 4 weekend in 2003 and sat and thought about what had just happened to our country and military. that was when the scales started falling from my eyes and i

realized we were overreaching ourselves strategically and we were involved in this endless war. the point i try to make in the book is, if you are a business person and you fail, you usually get fired and lose your job. in the military, it seems a lot of the senior decision-makers, military leaders and civilian officials with them seemed to get away without having full accountability. that is fundamentally the point of my book. there is a thing in the military were senior officers, we have this thing. do as i say, do as i do. what i am seeing is a lot of senior military officials are doing -- do as i say, not as i do. the troops are doing the heavy lifting, that is the point of my book is accountability.

we need to reinsert that into the system, which is getting out of whack. host: one more question about afghanistan, do you think it was more of a misstep for president trump to set the withdrawal timeline, or do you think the missteps came under the biden administration when it came time to execute the withdrawal? guest: i thought we set the biden administration up, they could go forward how they wanted to. i think at the end of the day, it was a complete debacle the way they did it. i know some people think the trump administration somehow put them between a rock and a hard place, i do not think that could be further from the truth. we took the country down with 200 special operators and intelligence officers, i felt pretty confident with 200, 300 people -- i talk about the

wargame, 800 was the number of people we came up with that should stay in afghanistan. i think we could have done that in an agreement with the taliban and afghan national government. at the end of the day, the biden administration's decision to pull out was a strategic error of enormous consequence. i do not think putin would have invaded ukraine if we had handled afghanistan differently. host: let us go to the phone lines. first is andrew in virginia on the democratic line, what is your question or comment? caller: the first thing i want to say is, i think former president trump was not only a traitor, but an insurrectionist. what i would like to ask your guest is, first of all, did he believe the 2020 election was the gentleman? was it stolen -- legitimate?

was it stolen? number two, would he endorse or continue to back president trump -- former president trump if he was the republican nominee in 2024? last question, does he approve or does he agree that nato, the united states should continue to support our allies in ukraine in their fight against trump's best buddy putin in their war against the russian aggression, the murdering of thousands of ukrainian civilians, the continued horrific actions they are taking against innocents in that country? i would like to hear your answer, thank you. guest: andrew, three questions. i wrote them down. election. i believe the election, if not

fair -- i am with bill barr, there was not enough impropriety to sway the election, i am not an election denier. in my book, it starts out immediately, i say it is time for change. it is time for generational change in leadership. that is one of the problems we have in our country, we are being consumed by the baby boomer generation, that has gotten us into trouble in made bad decisions, it is time for a change. ukraine, yes. continue to support ukraine. host: you think the u.s. should continue to support ukraine and provide funding and resources? guest: sure. it is quintessential. in my book, i talk about how we need to transform our military from fighting a cold war, which is what we are doing with these

exquisite western -- weapon systems. we need to transition to smaller, cheaper, more flexible ways of doing business. ukraine is a classic example. in afghanistan and iraq, we spent $2 billion a week supporting those armies, those militaries. they collapsed as soon as we left. one thing we have going for us in ukraine, brave fighters and president zelenskyy and his leadership team and the people of ukraine are willing to fight it out. all they need our weapons. this is a great model going forward, these people are willing to put their blood, sweat, tears, treasurer and infrastructure destroyed to fight tear any. all they want -- tyranny. all they want is our support.

you start shoveling billions of dollars into a place, stuff gets lost. i think the american taxpayers deserve to know where their money is going. i believe in supporting ukraine, i also believe in oversight and accountability, the purpose of my book. host: let us go to louisville, kentucky. charles is on the republican line. guest: caller: yes. c-span -- january the sixth, 2021, a quick pause. you will see -- [indiscernible]

the verification of the georgia vote could be done by inauguration day for president biden. january 20. the whole election thing, we all vote in november, but they are still counting votes then extend the vote counting on mail.

the whole thing, now congress is in a jackpot. the rules of engagement, it is called. when you play by palouse sees rules-- pelosi's rules, no doubt. the whole thing stopped when a guy, an officer for the capitol police, an officer who left a loaded glock and a bathroom goes out and shoots. host: that color-- caller is talking a little bed january 6, let us talk about it. your book starts with a scene from january 6, can you describe the scene you start your book with?

describe it for us, then tell us why you decided that was the way -- why you decided that should be the opening scene. guest: it really highlighted to me the distance between the leadership and capitol hill and government and those that are out doing the work, serving. what happened, there has been a lot of different stories. the committee got close. it's funny, did you notice the published version get the bookstore, there are a couple appendix that talk about the use of the national guard as well as the details of the attack that day? those are in the ones you get at the bookstore. the free versions, one has it, the other two do not.

here is what i am getting too. -- to. i made a decision, the president supported the decision to provide any military support to local law enforcement. the metropolitan police department, capitol hill police, as well as any cabinet officials or cabinet agencies. in washington, d.c., a lot of the city is owned by the department of the interior. they have a huge role. i was given the authority to do that, which i did. i had several calls with all of those that were involved in security that day, asking if they needed more support. we did not get any other requests. something i would like to highlight, because you have really articulate listeners and viewers, this sounds

bureaucratic. it comes down to our civics class we had in high school, three branches of government. the executive branch, the military is the executive branch. capitol hill's legislative branch property. the military does not go to the legislative branch property, in this case capitol hill, unless formally invited by the leadership. a military coup. there was talk early on about the risk -- some alarmists, in my view alarmists, question the loyalty of the members of the armed services as well as me, that somehow we were going to do something counter constitutional. violate our oath. nothing could be further from the truth. the first call you reference that i start the book with, i highlight the dysfunction that

was happening. i have great empathy for those that were on the hill that day, that is not what i'm talking about. the leadership in a crisis matters, i was very underwhelmed by the leadership on both sides of the aisle that day. that is why i started the book that way, to show it is time for a change. accountability. i did not think there has been accountability yet. there has been in some measures, but i was underwhelmed with the final report. i thought we could get lessons learned, like the 9/11 report. that changed how we do things in government. i do not see that happening with the 1/6 committee report. host: you did testify to that committee about your role, telus for the viewers who may be did not see or read about it, what was your role in january 6? share more of your reflection on how things unfolded that day. guest: i was acting secretary of

defense, i was in charge of the one million members of the armed forces on active duty. they show up every day, about one million of our citizens serve in a part-time capacity in reserve in the national guard, than anywhere from 500,000 to 700 thousand civilian employees in the department of defense. with that in mind, the law and constitution are very precise about the use of the armed forces being domestic law enforcement. military has done domestic law enforcement -- it has been a travesty. in the 1960's, the u.s. army spied on americans to such an extent we still do not know how many american civil liberties were violated. we lost track in the hundreds of thousands in the database, the first computer database wide scale used by the government --

a side note for the tech folks that are listening. they found our military would never be used incorrectly like it was -- vowed our military would never be used incorrectly like it was. we are careful about how we use our military, we have law enforcement to handle domestic functions. my job was to reinforce as appropriate and, with a request from the legally sanctioned, the mayor, speaker pelosi, mcconnell and those people. that is what we did. host: let us go back to the phone lines. janet is calling from massachusetts on the democratic line, what is your question or comment? caller: good morning. i am glad you brought that up about surveillance of protesters back in the 60's and 70's, i was one of them who was arrested off

the steps of the capital-- capitol. we were protesting the vietnam war, not a president who is having a meltdown. anyway, i am glad you are on. i remember right after the insurrection, there was something going around on the internet with your signature on it, directing the military under you to not interfere with the protesters, basically. and to not arm themselves. was that your signature? guest: thanks for bringing that up, hope things are well in massachusetts. this is a critical thing i try to get across in my book. the american people have to understand -- this is the point of the book. if you ask a veteran about that memo, the coordinated

instruction, guidance to the leadership of the d.c. national guard that was responsible for providing military support that day, any person in the military would go oh yeah, five paragraph operation order, coordinating instructions where you talk about use of force, you talk about equipment, you talk about these things. the uninitiated see this as some sort of conspiracy on my part. every time any military operation happens, the commander or leader -- i was overarching commander, lists those things. remember, what happened during the black lives matter demonstrations and after george floyd was tragically killed, the d.c. national guard acted, and my belief -- i was not in charge. they were flying helicopters down the street. i do not know if you recall that.

there were indications -- i do not know for a fact, but it seemed clear we were on the precipice or perhaps overstepping legal authority. i wanted to make sure during this operation that everyone knew the limits. i would ask you, find a veteran or someone currently serving and ask if what i said makes sense. maybe there is a veteran out there that will chime in, this is exactly how the military works. that has been taken and convoluted into this idea that somehow i was complicit in slowing the response. that is military 101, order issuing. that is the point i am trying to make in my book as well, let us communicate better. i do not think it is just civilians. the 93% of civilians that have not surveyed did not understand the military.

the 7% that have served you to understand the 93% they serve. i do not mean to hector on civilians, but i am not at all. that is the purpose of the armed forces, that is what you pay $1 trillion a year for. there should be accountability, i stand by that. i was up there eight hours, senate i did six hours, the house i did six hours. my story has not changed because i have nothing to hide and i want to help educate and bridge the gap between those that serve and those they serve. host: i do have a question, just to make sure i am clear. we were talking about the opening scene in your book, wanting to wait for congress to say they needed the national guard at the capital--capitol. guest: right. if that morning i would have

sent military forces to capitol hill, you all in the twittersphere and all the talking heads would have declared a military coup was starting. i was not about to do anything like that. i understood the political context of what was going on. as i said earlier, the executive branch military, the armed forces, do not go to the legislative branch of capitol hill without being requested. that did not happen until 2:35. the capitol hill police, metropolitan police finally issued a meaningful, nonspouse stick request for military support. i came into the pentagon at 2: 35, the chief of staff of the army had operational control. i was at the strategic level,

the chief of staff of the army had operational control, which they then passed down to major general walker. at 3:00 p.m., the chief of staff , the army and secretary came into my office. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said we have a request, it is legitimate and accurate. we need to support this. at 3:04, the order went out to activate the district of columbia national guard to the capital immediately to support law enforcement. host: why did it take so long? the first guardsman did not arrive until 5:40 pm guest: looks like 5:20 now, i am still learning. i was hoping we get an accurate timeline, this whole narrative

the military was slow to respond is another point i am trying to make. this is not a netflix series, it is not halo or call of duty. when you get an order to go into harm's way, small unit leaders get together. they have to play on, bring the people together, equip them and talk through everything. on top of that, when you were going into do civil law enforcement, which is a really big deal, you're military should only do law enforcement duties domestically as a last resort when civil disorder rains. your members of the armed forces have to be sworn in, deputized. this does not happen in a nano second. you have to plan. you want to match your people,

get them on buses. my point is, this is what i am trying to do with my book, help explain to people that do not understand how their military works. our finest, most rapidly deployable forces in the united states active-duty military -- the national guard is one weekend a month, two weeks during the summer. part-time soldiers. they are the most elite forces in the armed forces, they take longer to deploy, get on the airplane and fly away to the crisis in the national guard took. they moved promptly. the whole narrative your military somehow was complicit, slow to the riot, is irrefutably incorrect. that is what i try to help with in my book, try to bridge the

gap in understanding. host: let us take some more calls, kurt is calling from new jersey on the independent line. no ahead. -- go ahead. caller: good morning. it is funny, we have democrat, republican, independent and armed forces. i am thinking, we are undergoing a psychological operation right now. there is so much fear. i used to be an angry democrat, concerned republican, now a frustrated independent. guest: we are the same. caller: january 6, that has been set in place. very un-transparent government we have right now of donald

trump, his first call with a foreign leader was leaked to the press. it leaves us guessing. i would like to talk about bio weapons, covid and fentanyl. i do not think we are going to fight the next war with tanks, what do you think about that? guest: oh my gosh, you must've read my book. if not, i hope you do. i talk about threats. the biggest threat is unbridled military spending will bankrupt america. the second point is president trump was very adamant about protecting our borders, a lot of people thought that was immigration. 77,000 americans were dying due to illicit drugs coming across the border, he was adamant the military had a role to play. i totally agree with that. your point about how the next war will be fought, that is the point of my book.

we are thinking we will have huge battles with tanks, planes, aircraft carriers. really what is happening, the chinese -- a book in the 80's, early 90's, unrestricted warfare. they lay out their plan. it is not rocket science, read the book. it talks about the whole of society using every tool, finance, commerce, military information. that is what they are doing. the point that you make is what i'm trying to make in the book, we need to retool for that type of struggle as opposed to going back and doing what we know best , which is just off a playbook from world war ii and do it again. -- dust off a playbook from world war ii and do it again. host: harry is on the republican line in pittsburgh. caller: hello, i've got a comment.

i was seven or eight when eisenhower was in office, then i start watching the history channel. eisenhower warned of the military complex, i thought that was crazy. now i look at what is going on, austin wants to go after white supremacy in the military, the communist manifesto. he called up china, he would take care of it. i am seeing on tv, i have three neighbors who have kids 17, 18. they tell their kids, do not go into the military right now. the military is way down because of this. these are things i am seeing, not that i'm imagining. trump went after a general, he killed the general, a terrorist.

he instilled fear into these other countries, he was the wildcard. they say he is friends with russia, he kept russia under guard while this president ain't doing nothing about it. the people calling in are ignorant to the fact of everything that went on through history. sound like a nut case. i want to know your opinion. i am sure you might not agree because you are from the military and our loyal. -- are loyal. i am seeing it with my own eyes, they said it on tv so it is not alive. -- a lie. guest: you talk about the military-industrial complex that eisenhower warned americans, unless we were more thoughtful about national security, it becomes industry we pour money into without oversight. i do not think eisenhower could

have considered when he gave the speech, one of his last speeches about where we are, that is one of the key elements of the book is to talk about how we can do things differently and reduce spending but still maintain the capability to advance american interests. the second point about what is going on with leadership and the fact that so many young people are deciding not to enter the armed services, i've seen the studies that have come out that the army has done on recruiting problems, i do not think they have dug deep enough. what i suspect is young people are seeing the hypocrisy of their leadership, my kids are amazing and do not put up with hypocrisy from bosses. when they say something, my kids, two of them are working age, they take that as a

contract obligation, morally and ethically meaningful for them. when they see their bosses act in a different way, a case of what we are seeing in the military right now, we keep losing wars. senior military leadership gets dragged in -- i need to go back to high school english and review that. they get pulled into these political fights, which we call the culture wars. i have never seen a single and never talk to a single member of the armed forces that joined the military to fight wars. they joined because it is profound. the thing that matters is if you work hard, do your job, you will advance and have opportunities. they want to train and prepare

for real war, heaven forbid. war is a horrible thing, i talk about in my book. if that situation arises, they want to be ready to fight real wars, not culture wars. the young people and our senior leadership in the military and other places, it is confusing to them and that is the purpose of the book, to try to bridge that gap. there is enormous nobility in public service. public service, not just military service. when we keep these going on with all the character assassinations and destroying the character assassinations and destroying reputation of those that served, what person would go this is a great idea, i want to go into public service and have my reputation ruined online and have my family attacked?

i am not complaining about me, i am a public official. that is par for the course. but that is my biggest concern, we are self-selecting so young people that should be serving are like why would i ever do that? not confident with my beliefs and what i see is my future and we have to change that. host: we are going to take another call from pittsburgh, this is chris on the democratic line. what is your question or comment? caller: hi, good morning. i have a little bit -- i guess it is more of a personal question. when you look back on your career -- i have not read your book, maybe you talk about this. you were secretary of defense during that last phase of the trump administration. do you think your position -- if you had to do it over again,

this stuff is pretty complicated. do you think that enhanced your reputation, or didn't leave a stain on your career -- did it leave a stain on your career? people look at you in a certain way, probably. guest: that is a great question, thanks for asking. i get that all the time, the funniest ones are -- they are not the funniest, they are almost sad. i will be at an event, maybe a fundraiser for a veterans group. i try to use my notoriety, if you will, my c list celebrity to help a veterans causes. i do a lot of that, i will go speak and try to raise money. several times, people have come up to me and gone while, -- wow, i came here hating you and i leave you're not liking you, but understanding more of what is going on.

that is all we need to do, that is all i want. we can talk a little bit more, exchange information without incredibly toxic way a lot of social media and anonymous communications work. the question you asked, ultimately, here's the thing. raised by a father who was a cop , got drafted in the korean war. my father would always say there is nobility in public service. there is something in the military, one of the key characteristics is selfless service. you do not get to choose who you serve or where you serve. you volunteered to serve. in this case, i had done that for 30 something years and when

the president asks you to serve, the way i was raised, you serve. you answer the call. anybody that thought the final 73 days of the trump administration would be a cakewalk is clearly delusional. i had no delusion, i did not go in thinking it would enhance my reputation, that is not why i did it. i did not care about that, it made no difference. i was called to serve. those i worked with and led and served with throughout my military career, how could i be a selfless servant and servant leader i had tried to epitomize my entire career if, at the final moment, i decided that was all a lie? that is a lot to unpack, but i hope you get a sense from where i am.

please buy my book, it says in the first chapter. other than my family, friends and my god, i do not care what anyone thinks about me. you serve when and where you were asked, that is how i was raised in that is how it works. host: the next caller is david in mississippi on the independent line. you are on. caller: thank you. what do you say to all the people that believe you all were installed for one reason, that is to delay the response on january 6? they were only deployed after the coup had failed. they failed because pence would not leave the building -- patel and wolf cleaned their phones to

get rid of their communication and correspondence. what did you think about that? guest: i think it is complete bull you know what, the investigation has revealed that did not happen. there was not some sort of call or conspiracy to delay the response to capitol hill. at the end of the day, let us be clear what happened. props and respect to those law enforcement officers that did their best that day and fought it out. at the end of the day, local law enforcement and, in this case, bc law enforcement, capitol hill police, had the charter to defend the capital that day and the goings-on. they got overwhelmed. let me be -- i cannot stress this enough. your military should never be

used for domestic law enforcement. meaning doing police work except when civil society, civil order has collapsed. an example would be a natural disaster or some other disaster that renders chaos throughout the area. that is what the military is for. to use your military for domestic police function is a recipe for the client and puts at risk, period. end of story. the narrative that somehow we and everybody else was installed -- you'd have to ask president trump, i do not know. i do not think that was the case. the other point i am trying to make in my book is this idea that members of the armed forces would violate -- every year, every member of the armed forces

sits and has an instruction on their role in the united states. we talk about these things and remind people of their obligation to support, defend the constitution of the united states. it is not just block training, it is meaningful training. that is the point of my book. these are their sons and daughters, husbands and wives. somehow our armed forces were susceptible to that behavior and i would violate my oath of office that i served and supported my entire adult life is beyond -- it is incomprehensible to me. host: the next caller is in chicago, illinois. jasper on the republican line. caller: good morning. host: good morning.

caller: christopher, all you do is talk about your book, your book. guest: i am trying to sell my book, did you buy it yet? caller: let me talk. you're trying to talk over the question. tia is trying to ask you one question, just like on fox, you try to talk over the question. host: be respectful, but go ahead and ask your question or comment please. caller: sometimes just listen and answer the question, stop talking about your book all the time. answer the questions. you've got your talking points, i will not be buying your book. thank you, tia, have a good day. host: we are going to another caller. guest: i want to apologize if i've been speaking over people. that is a good point. if i have offended anyone with the way i am communicating, i

want to sincerely apologize. we need to communicate better. if i've been speaking over you are not answering your questions, let us keep going. host: we appreciate you joining us, we are talking to former acting secretary of defense chris miller, we have a few more minutes for your calls. danny and atlanta, georgia on the democratic line. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say christopher miller, he lied. he was talking about the border. when president obama left office, border crossings were at a 50 year low. i spent eight years in the marine corps, please do not think me for my service. i care nothing about folks like you thinking me. a coup, i put my uniform on for eight years to defend against

that. we have folks, just like the folks at fox news, they sit there and lied to the audience knowingly. you come on and you lie in your book. come on, man. i spent eight years. either my servicemen something or else it didn't, fox news and your world tells me my servicemen nothing. you are a liar like the rest of them, i will not apologize for it. see you later, bye. guest: i will not thank you for your service, but i will thank you for serving. i am the same way. thank you for your service sound so routine and on meaningful, but thank you for serving -- i mean that from the bottom of my heart, i'm sorry you're disappointed in me and my

performance. that is why i love c-span, we get to talk about what is on our mind. host: the last two callers have been somewhat critical, it seems to be regarding mostly january 6. as you look back in retrospect, given your position only your role -- i know you talked a lot about deficiencies you felt with congress and the capitol police, d.c. metro police. do you think the federal government, in particular president trump and his administration, are there things that could have been done better? guest: i'm sorry, i talked over you. host: are there things the trump administration use pacifically could have done better, mistakes made regarding the lead up to or the day of january 6? guest: there are always things you can do better, that is what

i learned in the military. we all try our best, sometimes you fall short. we have a process called the after action review, which results in lessons learned, insert the into the process and training to become -- to not make the same mistakes again. that is what i was hoping we would get out of the committee, that is what happened with the 9/11 commission. a laundry list of things we need to do to improve. the biggest mistake that was made was we did not declare a national security event, it is a bureaucratic thing in the united states government, which causes different support to be provided. typically for the election process, national security event is not dictated or proclaimed. it is for inauguration day, that

causes communications pathways to open up. we did not do that. that is something that should have been done. host: another caller, harry in georgia on the independent line. you are on. caller: thank you, c-span. i would like to ask the man, number one, did you have no palms when president trump put his former caddie in charge of personnel at the pentagon, then immediately mark esper was let go? was there no information shared between the justice department and fbi and the pentagon about the intelligence about who was coming to washington that day? the third question, when was the first time you saw the gallows set up in front of the congress

building? i will take my answers off-line, thanks. guest: first question was personnel selection, mr. mcafee is fully qualified to run personnel. i do not think he was a caddie, i do not know. second question, i think it had to do with -- i forgot. the third question was the gallows, that day a lot of things were happening. we were looking international threats -- i know you asked. the coordination between the department of justice and whatnot. i thought we had -- intelligence was spotty and communication and information, that was another lesson learned. how do you share information

that is collected domestically? i cannot stress this enough. the department, armed forces, intelligence collecting in the united states. it is a recipe for disaster. let us be clear. you have to look at the fbi, state and local police as well as homeland security for threat assessments for domestic activities. that is the way it works. do not let your armed forces do intelligence collection against their own citizens, do not do it. it is horrendous. we've done it before, it was a nightmare. i was not going to let that happen again. the third point, we've got a lot going on. fake bombs reported, a lot going on. remember again, i'm going to

provide any support requested by the mayor or capitol hill or metropolitan police. i didn't remember the gallows going up, it was a swirl of information, a swirl of tv video that was difficult to comprehend because there were 70 different feeds coming in. it is hard to understand what was going on. host: we want to thank you again, we've been chatting this morning with christopher miller, the former acting secretary of defense under president trump, discussing his book. the title is "soldier secretary." thank you, chris, for joining us. guest: thanks for what you are doing and what c-span is doing, these are the conversations we need to have to break down these barriers. thanks for having me on and giving me a chance to talk. host: we are going to take a quick break. coming up later, bob keefe of

environmental entrepreneurs will discuss the green jobs created under the inflation reduction act in his book, "climatenomics: washington, wall street and the econic battle to save our planet." first, it is open forum. start calling in now. ♪ >> the name of america, which belongs to you in your national capacity. >> fourscore and seven years ago. >> ask not what your country can do for you. >> their american history, presidents have delivered pivotal speeches. on saturday, watched a 10 part series. american history tv, hear from abraham lincoln through a reenactment to john f. kennedy,

ronald reagan, george w. bush and barack obama. this week will feature speeches from two presidents, first harry truman's 1949 inaugural address and dwight eisenhower's 1957 speech on segregation and his 1961 farewell speech. >> the machinery of defense with the peaceful messaging goals. so that security and liberty may prosper together. >> watch the 10 part series saturdays at 9:30 a.m. and p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span 2. ♪ >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings and committee

meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruption and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back in washington journal, it is time for open forum, your opportunity to weigh in on the news of the day or any topic you would like to discuss. if you are a republican, call us at (202) 748-8001. democrat (202) 748-8000. independent (202) 748-8002 --and we are going to have the democrat line in texas, kick us off for open forum. caller: i would just like to

make a suggestion that c-span will put -- air the fox and dominion lawsuit and tell everybody -- explain it fully. also, you have a lot of republicans calling in that are still trump supporters and they need to know the truth. thank you. host: that was carolyn, let us go to gary from florida on the independent line. you are on. caller: this is gary, i am a physician in miami. we have a great concern for the use of drugs in our country, the fact that we sell alcohol legally, tobacco legally and now marijuana lays the background for the indoctrination of the use-- youth to go on to other

drugs. using the taxes to operate our system. host: thank you for calling in. another caller in maryland on the independent line, what is your thought for the day? caller: hey, good morning. thanks for c-span. i wanted to say, i consider myself an independent because i agree with both parties on separate things. i align more with the democrats on the economy and fiscal issues , more with the republicans on things like cultural issues in the second amendment. but i wanted to say it is getting harder -- i normally vote for democrats because of unionism and helping the poor of our society. but the democrats are getting very soft on crime.

urban areas, like where i live outside of the capital, it is really bad. all of the bail reform and catch and release. this is not the immigrants. i fully support our immigrants. but the democratic party needs to get much tougher on crime, or the republicans should start supporting higher minimum wage and unions. something has to be done about the violent crime taking over the country. host: thanks for your call. let us go to dallas, texas. bernard on the democrat line, you are on. caller: good morning. i want to ask a question, the united states is the only country to have a fentanyl

problem. does no other country have this problem? if you have a demand for it, that means it is coming here. we have a gun problem. we have a demand for it. people in this country, democrats and republicans, they are stupid. everybody is running to politics , everybody wants to be a politician. you can be a mechanic, now you are a politician. people do not know what they are doing, you keep voting for these folks and blaming it on the other guy. you are the problem. thank you. host: that was a caller from texas, the next is kevin from georgia on the republican line.

caller: yes, how are you doing? host: good, good. caller: i had a comment, those balloons that flew over -- i wish i could talk to the other guy, those balloons that supposedly flew over. i wonder if they could correspond those to the outbreaks of coronavirus and the diversionary tactic of the wuhan labs considering trump is part of the crime family. but working with the triad and china, we have a problem with the mafia in this country and around the world. they are working together and we have a serious problem if we do not get rid of them people. host: kevin in georgia, let us go to the independent line. gene is calling from new york.

caller: hello. i am calling in reference to the situation in palestine, ohio. the disinterest, from where i sit, the disinterest of the u.s. government and the people there. i have seen their comments and explanations of what is the matter with them caller:

>>

we have to become independent and make sure that we structure our children not to be so angry and mad. this generation, white and black , not to be so mad, way to focus on what is happening in the future. covid is something we need to watch out for. we do not wait to be so gung ho. can i erase that and start over? host: you are live, you did

fine. we are going out to randy from kentucky on the republican line. caller: earlier about unions and unionizing -- i am a farmer. we are pretty dumb people. we have product everyone has to have basically every day, but we are some of the poorest people. less than four dollars an hour was the average wage, everything we purchase is made by unions. john deere tractor, all these other implements and things that we purchase, are made by unions. yet we are not a union.

unions are illegal, they are unconstitutional and it is collusion. you cannot have it, just like the teachers unions and other unions. you cannot have those things because they will dominate your country and rule over you. we should collude -- that what it is, collusion, we hold our product until we hit prices of what we want and we will be the richest people in america. farmers, come on. let us unionize and get with it. thank you. host: randy in kentucky. on the line from virginia, bob is calling as an independent. caller: good morning. your previous gifts -- guests, i never heard him answer the part

about what he thought of the insurrection. i still think you must be backing trump. anyway, we need a decent republican to get up and start running for president. if we do not, murdoch -- fox news just came back, they live. they put it on tv and made everyone believe the lie, they knew it was a lie. murdoch should be kicked out, his citizenship should be taken away. if we do not give ukraine, south korea, taiwan and japan nuclear weapons -- we need to keep them from threatening the world with nuclear weapons. that is the only way it is going to be. if you want to use them, you start the war.

let us get the stuff settled with trump, put in jail where he ought to be. he committed treason. i hope everyone in this country realizes it. host: we are in open forum, you can weigh in on the news of the day or anything you would like to share. republicans call at (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, and independents call us at (202) 748-8002. we are taking calls, we are going to kansas city, missouri. paul, democrat. you are on. caller: yes, i want to know about the police, why they did not pull the guns out to protect themselves on january 6. they got themselves beat up,

they did not pull their gun out what will walk around and shoot innocent black people with no guns? how about you protecting yourself? i don't understand that. another thing, why do you have all these ignorant redneck people on talking about nothing? host: we are going to go to debbie in florida, calling as a republican. good morning. caller: good morning to you. i have a couple of things i would like to say. first is, i am very worried about our open borders because that will destroy our democracy. they are not letting people come into this country as legal immigrants. the second thing i would like to say is, i would like to know why biden talks about democracy when

he is destroying our democracy by having twitter and cbs, nbc silent what his administration is really doing? he wants to talk about democracy , they did not release the hunter biden laptop story until after the midterm elections were done. they did not release bidens classified documents until that was done. there is a lot of problems in the administration of biden that no one wants to talk about. i would love to see c-span tell the truth and produce what biden is doing wrong. that is democracy. let the republicans and the world know about biden and his shenanigans. he's broke the law. he's done things worse than

trump, but when the media hides it and twitter and all these high-tech companies hide it, they work with the cia and federal secret service, they are protecting biden. that is how he is getting reelected, because they do not let the news come out as democracy where the people in the united states could vote honestly. there was a lot of people, if they knew about hunter biden's laptop and his decisions with china and russia, that is how he made millions. politicians do not get rich off of serving the people when they get elected. they only get rich with millions of dollars if they are crooked. china is crooked, russia's crooked, all of these people that biden and hunter dealt with is ruining our country.

can not people put together and be like the united states says, united? host: we got your point, we are going to move on to another caller. james is calling from jackson, georgia as an independent. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you very much for very informative television presentation, i watch it often and appreciate your candor. i think sometimes i believe strongly that our political leaders forget the second word of political leader, leadership. they are not just politicians. once a person has been elected, they are responsible for leadership, the most visible as president of the united states.

yet, it seems in their public pronouncements and writings in interviews, they revert to their politician campaign role. they blast beam and attack other people for their positions and, rather than attacking a problem, even though i appreciate and respect the differences and views of different political parties and classes, i wish, i pray our political leaders would recognize their mayor, governor, president, senator, representative and stay on issue of the problems and issues of our country. we the citizens depend on accurate media, and i fear these days that many of our media are taking too many sides.

you can see in their words and presentations, they are constantly on the attack. the reference of former president trump or current president biden or the democrats or republicans, they add adjectives describing them as things. the talking -- stop being a talking point for a political party and address the issues. >> that's going to conclude open forum. we will take a quick break and be back with the executive director at environmental entrepreneurs. he is going to join us to talk about his book and the new clean energy jobs created since the passing of the inflation reduction act last year. we will be right back. ♪ >> there are almost 80 new

members in the 118th congress and this diverse group includes first-generation americans and a record number of women and minorities. c-span interviewed more than half of them about their up ringing, careers and political philosophy. on monday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, here from representatives nathan morin, greg landsman, cindy cam longer dove, and he ogles and eli crane. watch new members of the 118th congress at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> historian robert kagan has been writing about foreign affairs for most of his 64 years. the first book in his planned trilogy on the american foreign-policy was published in 2006 focused on u.s. history up to the founding of the

spanish-american war. a senior fellow at the brookings institution, he has completed the second book in the trilogy titled "the ghost at the feast: america and the collapse of the world order, 1900-1941." robert kagan writes americans have complex attitudes towards power and morality. they have a sense of distinctiveness and remoteness and a to moche and highly contested political system. >> historian robert kagan on this episode of book notes plus. book notes plus is available on the c-span now app or. wherever you get your podcasts. . ♪ preorder your copy of the congressional directory for the 118th congress. it's your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every house and senate member, important information for congressional -- on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. scan the code on the right to preorder your copy today.

it is $25.95 plus shipping and handling and purase helps support our nonprofit operation at c-spanshop.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: good morning. we are back with the executive director of environmental entrepreneurs, also known as e2, and he's goingo be discussing green jobs created under the inflation reduction act and his new book, "climatenomics." good morning, bob. >> good morning. host: thank you for joining us. let's start off talking about e2. what is the mission and how is it funded? >> e2 is a national organization. we've got about 10,000 business

leaders, investors and others across other sectors of the economy who work or do business in just about every state of the union. the one thing they have in common is that they realize that we cannot have a good economy without a good environment, and we cannot have a good environment without a good economy. we work on policies and we bring those business voices to bear, if you will, on policies that are good for our economy and our environment. funding comes from our members, who are again, business people across the country. host: i think it's interesting, you know, you are a business group, not a strictly environmental group. why are businesses invested in making sure that this environmental angle is represented, but also why do you think it's important to focus on the economic impact of green energy policy? >> well, it is important because, look, people cannot do

business on a dead planet. businesses cannot thrive unless we have a thriving environment as well. and as far as bringing business voices to bear on these issues, it is important because climate change has become an economic issue, it really has. last year alone, climate change cost our country about $165 billion worth of damage. that's according to noaa. of course, wildfires in the west, hurricanes in the east and flooding and freezes in places like texas, of all places. so, climate change is hurting our economy. the good news is climate action and some of the things we have been talking about today are driving economic growth, creating jobs, and is the positive side of policies like we have seen out of

washington lately. host: we are talking this morning to bob keefe. he just wrote a book called "climatenomic," and he also works for environmental arch printers, so we will be talking about green jobs and climate change. call in now with your questions or your comments for bob or on the issue of green energy, climate change and jobs. the numbers to call, republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. while we are waiting for that, i want to go to the inflation reduction act, some of those climate provisions. it is $369 billion of the $750 biioot will go towards clate changenitiatives, things like cutting emissions, manufacturing cleannergy

projects and advancing environmental justice projects it includes tax credits for zero carbon energy production. can you give us some of your -- an overview of the main elements of the bill and what do you think is going to be the most beneficial in the long term? >> well, so the main elements, as you mentioned, there is tax credits, it is called the production tax credit and the investment tax credit, or clean energy, and that's a 30% tax credit that last 10 years. that's probably one of the most significant parts of that bill. and why that's important is not just because it is a 30% tax credit for companies that, for instance, build wind farms or solar farms, but also companies that are building now manufacturing plants that are building everything from electric vehicles to batteries to solar panels in places like

georgia. what's also significant about that is that for the first time, that has been extended for 10 years, it's going to last for 10 years. when i talked to our members, for instance, in the wind and the solar business, what they say is, gosh, that's the most important part because we finally, finally have some visibility over where this is going to go in the next decade. previously, this was a tax credit that would sometimes come, sometimes go. you had to fight for it every year. and depending on who was in office, it might change. it's hard to run a business, of course, when you cannot see the past the year had. business expansions and so forth are predicated by visibility down the road on what your company is going to, so that 10 year extension was a huge deal. that's going to help and it is helping and already in a dramatic way with new investments in this country that

are creating jobs, driving economic growth. for consumers, there is also a $7,500 tax credit for new electric vehicles, $4000 tax credit for used vehicles. that's really driving electric vehicle demand and sales in this country like something we've never seen, something that i think is even outpacing what some people thought it could be. there is also something called a greenhouse gas reduction fund, it's the equivalent of something called a greenbank. it's about $27 billion to you. that money is directed specifically or mainly toward investing in, for instance, start clean energy companies and clean energy programs in communities of color, and low and moderate income communities around the country. frankly, places that you are not going to find teslas and solar panels on the roof now, but there's no reason why every

american should benefit from this transition to clean energy. of very important tax benefits for consumers to make their houses work better, to make them more energy-efficient, and businesses, as well. for example, an $8,000 credit for heat pump hvac system, which is something we are hearing about, taking off. another $1750 credit for heat pump hot water heaters that are more efficient. if you want to put insulation in your house to reduce your monthly energy cost, if you need to upgrade your circuit breaker box to accommodate new electric appliances, or maybe an electric vehicle, you'll get a tax credit for that, as well.

ultimately what that means is consumers and businesses alike will be spending less on their monthly power bill. and that brings down inflation to some extent. host: let's go to the phone lines now. our first collar is henry in georgia calling on the republican line. what is your comment or question? caller: just a comment. with the climate change and all, unless you can get china and india on board, we could spend billions and billions of dollars and not do any good here. it has to be a worldwide effort. we cannot do it by ourselves. as far as the climate, the climate has been changing since the beginning of time. there have been cycles. we had the ice age in the 1400,

1500s. climate changes all the time, i don't know what the big deal is. this you can stop emissions all over the world, it will not do anything. we cannot do it by ourselves. host: bob, what is your reaction to that? caller: great point, and exactly right, we cannot do it by ourselves. fortunately, we had something called the paris agreement in 2014 that brought every country on board to reduce their global omissions, reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. unfortunately, the u.s. fell out of that agreement for a while but we are back in it. i can guarantee that china and india are saying the exact same thing, if the united states does not do something about it, we cannot do anything about it either. interestingly enough, since the passage of this legislation we are talking about, tia, inflation reduction act, we have

seen other countries rushed to replicate that. last month, the european union countries announced their own equivalent of an inflation reduction act that will pump billions of dollars into clean energy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in europe. canada got scared when they saw the inflation reduction act and now they are moving to do something similar, as well. china and india, as well. here's why. we are starting to see companies coming from these other locations, these other parts of the world, to the united states to do business. why? it will be cheaper to do so because of the programs i mentioned earlier. perfect example is in the state of georgia. a few weeks ago, one of the biggest solar manufacturers in the world, qcells, announced the

biggest solar factory in the western hemisphere in georgia. sk batteries, another foreign country that is main leader in electric vehicle batteries, is opening up a huge plant in georgia, as well. this is already having an effect in many ways. host: let's go back to the phones. richard is in elkins, arkansas on the independent line. go ahead, richard. caller: good morning, c-span. i don't know where to begin with you guys. do you not see what is going on with this planet? the amount of volcanoes going off around the world, earthquakes, the ring of fire in the pacific ocean, the plates are on the move. they are spewing out gases. do you think those gases just sit on the bottom of the ocean? are you people that daft to think that man is doing all of this? we are going to need all the

energy of every kind, if we are going to get through with this planet has in store for us. you need to look up the scientists and read about recession. you probably never even heard about it. i don't know. but you guys keep on blaming man for everything. this is nothing but a big money grab. host: can you talk about that, bob? you see some of the criticism of the inflation reduction act just being wasteful, bloated government spending. how do you respond to that? caller: again, and to the caller 's point and others, climate change is happening whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not. yes, some of it is naturally occurring in our world, but when you look at the greenhouse gas emissions, how they have increased since the dawn of the

industrial age, you ought to be a little worried about that. if you are not worried about it, you ought to be worried about the increasing intensity and increasing intensity of the storms we are seeing. in the last eight years alone we have had the highest temperature this planet has ever seen. we have had the worst disasters we have ever seen since man started tracking them anyway. 165 billion dollars in damage last year alone. that is just the direct damage from natural disasters that are caused by rising greenhouse gas emissions and, in turn, climate change. what i would say is, look, i don't care if you believe in the science or not. i don't care if you like bolo bears. i don't care if you drive a prius or pickup truck. the fact is climate change is hammering our economy. $165 billion is a lot of money.

that is just the tip of the iceberg. look at what is happening to homeowners insurance. homeowners insurance rates are up 50% over the past decade. when houses continue to burn down in places like california, get wiped out on the beaches of the carolinas, homeowners insurance rates go up. the cost of everything at our grocery stores is going up in part because farmers are losing crops. the new york times had a story today that said texas cotton farmers lost about 75% of their crop last year alone. that means increasing prices for everything from tissue paper to wrangler jeans. we are all paying for that. so, we ought to do something about it. and we are doing something about it by investing in the clean energy that will reduce those greenhouse gas emissions that we

have created from burning fossil fuels in this country. host: our next caller is on the democratic line from little rock, arkansas. willie, you are on. caller: everybody hollering about climate change. climate change has a lot to do with how we live our life today. if we keep on taking everything out of the ground and think we can do it for the rest of our lives, and replace it with nothing, what in the world do these people think will happen? we need to start to go back to something like this. [indiscernible] thank you, ma'am. host: any response to the caller? caller: i am sorry that your gas

and electricity bill are so high. the good news, right now, the cheapest power available just about anywhere in the country is solar and wind. that is according to lazard, big investment banking firm, and others. solar is dramatically cheaper than coal, natural gas, cheaper than nuclear. we need to build more of it. host: let's go to grand junction, colorado. everett is on the republican line. caller: hello, sir. i am probably going to butcher this word, but there was this show i happened to see on youtube called "we were wrong." i don't necessarily agree with the statement, but it was talking about the milosevic

climate cycle, long-term climate cycle that has to do with the orbit of the sun, the wobble of the earth. i agree with most of the callers , we need to be good stewards of this planet, for sure. there is waste even in the clean energy sectors. i will give you an example. these big wind turbines are being buried in wyoming, and there are fields of them, literally. i don't know whether that is a good or not. i was just wondering if you happen to see about it, the milosevic. host: you can respond to the caller, but also, can you talk about what is in that inflation reduction act to address concerns that people have, that

some of these green energy policies are not practical? people say they are not enough charging stations, or electric vehicles need charging too frequently for long-distance trips, things like that. guest: absolutely. i want to mention to everett, he lives in one of the most beautiful parts of the country, grand junction. to me, that is worth protecting. he has a point about recycling old wind turbine blades, batteries, things like that. there was an announcement the other day, a major wind turbine manufacturing plant in iowa is now starting to recycle those huge blades. it is a tough thing to do but we will figure it out. when it comes to batteries, we have had numerous investments that have gone into companies that recycle the materials that

go into batteries, to essentially pull them out and reuse them, which is a good thing. as far as your question, tia, about the range of electric vehicles. host: the caller was bringing up some of these green energy, new developments in green energy -- guest: yes, there is a downside. host: you hear that a lot but it seems there are portions of the bill that are intended to at least help with innovation, address some of those downsides. with the electric vehicles, for example. could you talk more about that? guest: for instance, the department of energy using funding that came not from the inflation reduction act but the bipartisan infrastructure package that passed recently, provided grants

to about 20 different battery companies, battery-related companies around the country. this is essentially what is jumpstarting some of these companies do what i mentioned, which is pull the old parts out of -- the heavy metals and other materials -- out of ev batteries and recycle them and put them into new batteries. i will give you another example of how we can tackle this. we have a great e2 member in michigan. his company basically buys used previous batteries, gets used prius batteries, other batteries from hybrid electric vehicles. he takes those batteries and recycles them by putting them into things like forklifts, which don't need to go may be 100 miles a day, but still has

some energy in them, to run those forklifts all day long. look, every change in technology comes with problems. every change in technology, transition from technology has its downsides, as well as its good sides, but we are figuring this thing out. if we don't, we are in a lot of trouble. host: another caller. cindy is calling on maryland from the independent line. what is were question or comment? caller: thanks for taking my call. my biggest problem is this all or nothing thinking, like we have to have all electric, and you are not ready for all electric. just by your own comments. i wonder how much stock you have in these electric companies to be pushing this so quickly, or biden to be pushing this so

quickly? in maryland in my county they want to go all electric and push us out of our gas cars, push us out of our gas range. my thought is, if we are at war, which we are basically with china, all they have to do is send something over here and take out the electric grid, and all of these electric cars, houses, electric food supply, and then what? what are we going to do? we have nothing to get around with. the other thing i want to say, somebody already mentioned, you are moving too quickly. you cannot recycle this stuff. you are not prepared. you are talking about green and climate change and all of that but you are just dumping stuff that is going to ruin the ground. slow down. i don't mind a little bit of this and a little bit of that but we should not put everything we have in one thing.

that is a huge mistake in strategy. thank you. host: your response, bob? guest: she is exactly right, we cannot do everything all at once, but if you look at what is happening with climate change, look at what is happening with the rising greenhouse gas emissions from burning fossil fuels, we have to move as quickly as we can. and we have to do it as cleanly as we can. under the biden administration, the administration has set a goal to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in this country by 50% to 52% by 2030. to get there, the administration is working on 100% clean energy on our grid by 2035, shifting to electric vehicles, 50% of vehicles by 2030 will be zero emission vehicles, mainly electric, under the biden administration's plans.

those are all hefty goals but 2030 is seven years away. seems like a pretty quick time. but think about when president kennedy said we needed to go to the moon. we got to the moon in about six years. in a previous life, i was a technology reporter, covered, among other things, companies like apple, google. i can specifically remember sitting in a meeting with steve jobs, and he came up with something in his hand and he said, someday, you'll have 100 songs in your pocket. not long after that, he said, someday you'll be making phone calls on this thing, and you'll also be taking pictures, surfing the internet, using it for your contacts and getting driving ructions on it. we skeptical journalists thought, this guy is crazy. i remember sitting with the google guys.

someday, you'll be able to go on the internet and find anything, anywhere, anytime from any computer in the world. we thought how could we possibly get there that quick, as quickly as they are talking about? think about how quickly those technologies have literally changed our lives, changed the world. always for the better? not necessarily. i think generally folks would say they are better off from the technology advances we have seen come very quickly. that is what we are talking about here. we are talking about a technology transformation. we are talking about an economic transformation. right now, we are witnessing what is the beginning of an economic revolution, the likes that we have not seen in this country in generations, if ever. it is a clean economy revolution. host: we are talking this morning with bob keefe, whose book is entitled "climatenomics: washington, wall street and the economic battle to save our planet."

you can call us. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. your questions for bob about green energy or green jobs. our next caller is from augusta, georgia, calling on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: doing well. what is your question or comment? caller: my question is for bob. when republicans talk about recycling batteries, wind turbine blades, they assume that these solutions will exist, will, immediately. i always remind them, these needs do not start being researched and developed until a

market creates a need for it. until we start adopting on a large scale the ev and green jobs technology sector, the market will respond and create the problems, sourcing the heavy metals, recycling batteries, wind turbine blades. that is the basic economics of it. my real question is, i live in georgia. we heard a lot about the investment property and placement reduction act, specifically the battery manufacturing in georgia with hyundai doing a big battery plant, the battery manufacturer that senator ossoff was able to get a trade deal with. but asby go into the future of this new green economy, how do we protect labor relations in states like georgia where you see a lot of this investment in red states where there are no unions, and you know these jobs are dangerous and protections for workers will not be there,

but that is why they are moving to these red states. the inflation reduction act incentivized them but they are taking advantage of red state economics which will not bring everyone along in this new revolution. it will make the capital a bit bigger. thank you. -- it will make the gap little bit bigger. guest: thank you for the call. tia, we are getting a lot of callers from georgia, and to good point, things are happening in georgia. these jobs that get created and do not pay well. first of all, inherently, and clean energy occupations, wages are typically a little bit higher. my organization, e2, did a study a couple years ago that looked at 17 different job occupations that are involved in clean energy. what we found is that overall

clean energy jobs pay about 25% better than other jobs -- than the national average on an hourly basis. but when you look even closer at the different occupations involved in clean energy, in the clean energy space, for instance, electricians might get $18 to $20 an hour working on general electrical jobs. if they are working on solar, trick vehicles, they might get closer to $25 an hour. hvac, heating and air technicians make it $15 to $18 an hour working your heater or air conditioner at your home or office. but if they have the skills to fix a heat pump, if they have the skills to work around energy efficiency products, they will get a few dollars more per hour, according to this study that we

did. beyond that, you are right, i grew up in the south. labor is not -- unions are not that common in the south, but a lot of these jobs, announcements are going to the south. georgia specifically. the good news is, through the legislation passed by congress, these jobs, in order for these companies to get the tax breaks and other incentives we've been talking about, have to pay fair wages. they have to pay wages that are the prevailing wages in that area. typically it is more than that. but, look, we are talking about factories, manufacturing plants. labor should be involved with this, labor is involved with this. because of that, these jobs will be better. host: next on the line, grant is

calling from washington, d.c., calling as an independent. what is your comment or question? caller: great discussion on recycling the equipment. one of the lead companies manufacturing solar panels is first solar, has gotten about 1.4 billion dollars in loans to build a site in california, another $3 billion in federal funds to build three powerplant. it has development finance corporation money, 500 million, to build panels overseas. this company is using a ecology called cadmium telluride which is cheaper than poly silicon, although only about 5% of the market right now. they are facing a lot of opposition because they don't want to commit to recycling their panels. for example, at the foot of the

beautiful endless caverns in virginia, the proposed to bring in about 2.7 tons of toxic cadmium in their panels, but they don't have a plan to decommission that through recycling. at another site in virginia, the hickory solar farm, they propose for that 32 megawatt site which would have 2.8 tons of toxic cadmium, just to sell them on ebay. these panels are not household waste. they have to be recycled to get those toxic elements out of them. i am just wondering -- i'm assuming your group is supported by first solar. you can confirm that or not. i'm just wondering if you support the mandatory prelicensing commitment through a contract to recycle cadmium telluride solar panels for they are put up over a site.

by the way, cadmium is a byproduct of zinc mining. it is a toxic waste that is being suspended all over america with no plans to recycle it. host: we will let bob respond to the question. guest: thanks for that, and a great point. for starters, no, we don't get money from first solar, we don't get money from any corporation. our members are individuals, not companies. to your other point earlier, i don't have stock in any of these companies. i don't speak for companies, industry, etc. my work is about trying to make this planet a little bit that are. the only stockholders i have are three little girls named delaney, grace, carly, my daughters. we are a nonprofit organization of individuals not companies. i am not familiar with the first

solar issue, to tell you the truth. but yes, we need to do more to ensure that these products get recycled. we need to be sure that we learn the lessons from past energy transitions. we now know it is a bad idea to keep burning fossil fuels. we know it's a bad idea to walk away from fracking rigs and leave the mess behind for future generations to clean up. we know it's a bad idea to leave behind solar panels that cannot be recycled or batteries that cannot be recycled or wind turbine blades that need to be recycled. we need to do all of that. but we also have to address the existential problem of our time, which is climate change, and to do that, we have to move to cleaner energy in this country. host: let's go to ohio. lois on the republican line. go ahead. caller: yes, what i was concerned about is where the lithium is coming from to make

these batteries? i understand they are using child labor in africa, two dollars a day. these children should be schooled, not being subject to toxins coming from this lithium. they dig it up with their hands. i have seen it quite a few times now. why are we destroying other people's lands just to do what we want to do? guest: it is horrible, and you are exactly right, some of the conditions not only around lithium but mining conditions around the world are just horrific, and we need to be pressuring those countries to do more to stop that. in the meantime, we need to quit relying on foreign sources for our energy, the basic building

blocks of a clean energy economy. i mentioned earlier the doe program that is funding battery production in the united states and also through both the inflation reduction act that we talked about and the infrastructure and jobs act. we are figuring out how to do that in the united states. if we are going to go all electric cars, we need to fear out how to do it using products in america, doing it with the jobs that pay good wages and protect our environment at the same time. through the legislation we've been talking about, through some of these investments i've been talking about, we are actually building, amazing to see, building battery supply chain in this country that we have never had before. that will make us more competitive with those places we've been talking about. right now the only place where we get lithium in this country is in nevada, a site run by a

company called albemarle, which does not mine it but it uses brine from underneath the desert to transform that into lithium. pretty cool technology. in the salton sea in california, they are looking at a similar project that would use the brine from essentially a dead sea to get this stuff. it is getting some major investments from people like warren buffett and others. another lithium site that is underway is in north carolina. that again is being supported through this federal battery program i mentioned. it would basically restart an abandoned lithium mind that has been there since before world war ii. that was used to produce lithium that was used in the manhattan project.

but there is still some lithium in that mine. the company behind it makes it could be a good source for this basic building block for batteries without building a new mine. host: i was going to interrupt you because we are getting to the end of our show. guest: that was too much fun. host: i know, it goes by quickly. we have to wrap it up here. bob keefe is the executive director of environmental entrepreneurs. he also has a book entitled "climatenomics: washington, wall street and the economic battle to save our planet." thank you so much for joining us, bob. that will end washington journal for today. we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. have a good day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]