host: good morning tuesday, march 7, 2023.

the city council chairman said yesterday that he is withdrawing the crime bill had of its approval resolution in the senate could overturn the bill. it includes elimination of mandatory minimum sentences. this morning, we are asking what you think should be done to enhance public safety across the country. our phone lines are divided by party affiliation. democrats at (202) 748-8000. republicans at (202) 748-8001. independent at (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. make sure to send your first name and yours city and state.

ludlum's washington journal. i want to show you the headlines and this article from the washington post. this crime code will is in limbo. the senate plans to vote on whether to block the overhaul of an old criminal code. even as they tried to pull the legislation before lawmakers could weigh in. it would be the first in more than three decades to overturn a piece of d.c. legislation. d.c. council chairman phil mendelson wrote to the senate is he was withdrawing the criminal code act of 2022, a move that a republican who sponsored the resolution called a desperate, made up maneuver. in a bipartisan vote, the house

approved the resolution. if the senate does the same, president biden has said he will sign it. you can take a look at the front page of the washington times. lawmakers going on the record with disapproval of softer penalties. we are joined by zach cohen. zach, welcome to the program. let's talk about that d.c. crime bill. why did the chair decide to resend it and why is the senate deciding to go forward with that? guest: they are opposed to overturn an ordinance in more than a decade.

other officials in washington are worried that it will undermine their efforts for statehood for d.c. but this particular revision to the criminal code would change how some criminal offenses are classified and reduce sentences on a vast swath of crimes with the exception of murder. that is something that congress does not approve of. the house has already passed this by a large partisan measure. there was an attack in an apartment building. senators will likely disapprove of this overhaul. last week, president biden, after saying that he oppose the effort to overturn the bill last week said he would sign this

republican led measure. host: remind us why this crime bill is so controversial. guest: it re-classifies criminal offenses. it eliminates mandatory minimum sentences on things like carjackings. which that is on the rise in washington. there is not a historic high, but certainly higher than in recent years. they think the nation's capital should not be reducing sentencing on those particular crimes. it is a political issue and something that republicans have made an issue of. i think this is an opportunity, at least in the place that they were. host: why is the senate going forward with this?

why will they not drop it, since the council has said, we do not want you to go forward with it? guest: they sent a letter to kamala harris that basically said, i am withdrawing the bill and it cannot become law anymore without going through this difficult process. but they said that they are not voting anymore on the actual city council bill on the -- but on that house bill. they can still put biden in a tough situation choosing between and deciding whether to overturn the will of the voters. the fact that it has bipartisan support, they could find a way around it but this is something that lawmakers feel that they need to weigh in on. host: is chuck schumer not able

to stop the vote? guest: in the senate, it is the democrats. but they basically set up the current system that gives d.c. its own set of laws that allows congress to disapprove of laws within a certain time period. there is nothing really that anybody can do to stop it. it is a simple majority this is more than a binding resolution. if the city council and not withdrawn the law, it would have held. host: there are three democrats

that have indicated that they will vote. are you expecting that number to go up? guest: i have counted eight or nine. murray, the highest-ranking democrat in the senate. she is voting for. those from nevada are voting for. bob casey and tammy baldwin. she basically said, i am in favor of statehood, but right now, d.c. is not a state we are going to vote to overturn it. i think the fact that you have moderate joe manchin on one side -- you are going to get a good chunk of the democratic caucus to vote for this. host: anything expected anytime

soon? guest: it has been said that he will use his powers there as well. it is very congress gets into the nitty-gritty of the law and how to make changes to that. that is how they were able to partially rollback the legalization of marijuana in the city. we could see them trying to attach to the bill unless they pass a temporary extension. host: zach cohen, thank you so much for joining us. let's take a look at white house press secretary. she was asked about the administration's opposition to

the crime bill at yesterday's crime briefing. >> does the white house have a response? >> the president expressed concerns. as we can see, the d.c. council is still going on. we will not comment on that any further. >> you said he overnighted dignity. >> she said -- she also said she understands my the president made this decision. let me get into it. let me finish the first question that you asked. she also said that she understood why the president

made this decision. the governmental affairs team is in constant communication with her team and was last week. but they are in constant communication. host: we are asking you across the country, what should be done to enhance public safety? doug is up first. good morning. caller: good morning. these policies that the d.c. council were proposing have been enacted all over the country, and the result has been a significant uptick in crime. criminals do not follow the law, but they do follow, by and large, what the government says.

that spice the many businesses here in california have found themselves being victimized over and over again by shoplifters. they know they can get away with shoplifting. host: are you saying that it should be stricter sentencing? caller: we should go back to the policies that were in place before all these liberal da's got into office and decided that criminals were the victims, instead of law-abiding citizens. we need to go back to what the policies were, when mr. trump was in office. host: let's go to lakeland, florida. good morning. caller: i do not know what is wrong with people in america that they seem to believe that

putting people in prison and incarcerating folks. crime. the statistics show that is very wrong. we still have crime at a high rate. crime, regardless of what country you are in, it is directly proportional to poverty. the more poor people are, the more crime happens. the guy before me talked about crime. people do not have money. people commit crime because they need money. if you all could spend as much time on crime as you do focusing on getting people paid and getting people wages and jobs. but as long as you keep subsidizing these other countries, you all being the government, subsidizing walmart because people walk -- working at walmart are still collecting

food stamps because they do not have enough money to live, you have a problem. people on the outside are saying, why should i work at walmart and not make any money when i can create -- commit a crime and live like a king? that is where the problem is. host: robin is in california. morning. caller: thank you for having me on. i think the insurrection that they said happened january 6 really did not happen after seeing tv last night. i think the people on the committee should be the ones arrested and prosecuted. host: we are talking about -- caller: i'm talking about people committing crimes on tv and getting away with it. you are talking about prosecuting poor people. capital punishment should be

used on capital crimes. that is all i should say -- i can say. caller: good morning, c-span. there is a big problem. but i think the republicans are just trying to make it a big thing to use it for the 2024 election. but it is a problem. it seems like it went up for some reason but i do not really know why. i know that in my city of flint, i'm so glad that our crime is down. we are not on the worst list for cities anymore and i am so excited. our crime is down. host: why did that happen, david? caller: the mayor really worked -- went out and worked with the county and the state police, and

they have done a good job because our crime is down. it is so nice not to be on that worst list, but i do not -- i do not think people should use it as a political thing. but it does need to be solved. i will admit that. host: let's hear from bill hagerty. he was asked about his opposition to the d.c. crime bill. >> that is amazing to think that the d.c. council has come up with a situation where they can actually lower the penalties. the district of columbia has become a wave of crime right now. carjackings have tripled. the d.c. government's response is to hand out car locks to

people worried about getting their car stolen. this is ridiculous. this is the federal district of columbia. i have citizens visiting me every day. the district needs to be a safe place, not an embarrassment to the nation. the mayor even vetoed it saying it did not make them safer. i have a responsibility to the government. we will push back and overturn this. >> your take, the president that he will not tell it and i guess that upset colleagues. >> they love the soft on crime policies. it did not work well. 72% of them agree with me. the d.c. police union agrees with me. they support posture i am taking.

we need to get serious about dealing with crime. the council is wanting to encourage it. it is making our nations capital a laughingstock and we need to stop this. host: we are asking what you think should be done to enhance public safety across the country. here is a tweet that says, yet another reason needful d.c. statehood. nobody but d.c. should be in charge. d.c. residents deserve better. ronald is not in north carolina on the republican line. ronald? you are on the air. caller: i am concerned about what is going on in the country. last night on tv, the democratic party panicking about biting --

they are talking about getting somebody else back in. our country would be better off if trump was back in, putting our country back, strong again. host: what do you think needs to be done as far as policy goes, to enhance public safety? caller: if we do not stop the border crossing, that is where the crimes are coming in. they are killing people. this new generation is panicking. they do not know what to do. that is what is wrong with our country. host: on the line for democrats. caller: thank you for the opportunity to express my opinion.

i am in indianapolis, indiana and it used to be a relatively peaceful town to live in, however the crime has increased exponentially and i hear a lot of rumbling and negative comments about the police department and how it should be defunded, but i think we need to have a greater presence of trained police officers, officers trained specifically to help de-escalate volatile situations. we need units situated in the higher crime areas in the city. just their increased numbers could be a deterrent to some of the criminal activity that we are seeing. i do not know whether they are limiting the number of officers and if that would rectify the issues that we are seeing. we need more directives to be given intent for criminal and

mischievous activities in the younger generation, they do not seem to have any direction or guidance. i'm not saying that we should enact or establish policies for these children, but there needs to be greater guidance, perhaps holding the parents or individuals who are responsible for their care anytime a crime is enacted by these children. i'm not sure if that is the answer, but that is my opinion. host: take a look at this article. stop handling non-emergency because. the los angeles police department, the largest while

focusing on more serious crimes as part of its upcoming contract talks. they intend to tell city negotiators that it is willing to let other departments or nonprofit agencies respond to calls about panhandling illegal sidewalk -- mental health episode's in which there is no threat of violence or criminal activity and dangerous complaints. it would free of officers to focus more on violent crime, solve more cases and improve morale. let's go next to donald on the independent line. caller: i think that the entire country needs to look at crime for what crime is. that is those people who break the law.

a few calls ago, they flipped the question and tried to put it on the democrats. north carolina citizens are like most other citizens. we have a few geniuses, most of us are average. but what we need to do is just go in and handle crime. those who break the law, treat them like lawbreakers, like we have in the past. the incident from january 6, that -- you just do not have a grasp of reality and you are not going to get one, but i want to say this as i close, and that is that the people want to think that trump is a panacea, that he

can do this and that, but he is a dark, deep person. if you are in church and you find out they are going to have communion and you find out that who is serving communion is the devil, you better run. host: good morning. caller: well, in my opinion, the first thing that should change is the tire administration and the democratic party. it was them who started and it went on from there and it got ridiculous. not to mention to prosecute

crimes. i lived in san diego, california and i moved because i could tell what was coming down the pike. san diego is not that bad yet, but it is getting there. the situation is out of control. host: how is it where you are? caller: the police, they are very cordial. there is not any crime going on. people are not walking into the walmart and walking out with thousands of dollars and no one is being held accountable for crimes, whatsoever, as it was happening in san diego. they went into one of the most upscale malls and walked out.

and nobody was stopped. nobody was held accountable. i do not understand how people cannot hold the entire democrat party responsible. host: do you think that was happening because there is not enough? you would recommend for police? caller: i would recommend that they enforce the laws on the books because the police cannot do their jobs. what good -- at the end of the day, the bottom line is that all of this started from the democrat party. they are the ones who enforced all this lawlessness. nobody is wanting to take accountability. host: phil mendelson was with reporters the other day, talking about the decision to pull back

that he crime bill. question change in the issues that have been complained of, there would be other issues that have not been brought up yet. i think pulling it back and assessing with the next step is, looking at some of the issues, explaining better with the legislation does and do not -- does not deal will take some time. i do not think there will be a quick transmittal. >> speaker mccarthy said he could not believe that the d.c. council had decriminalized carjackings. that is the kind of political headwinds you are facing. >> correct. crime lends itself easily to demagogic rhetoric. there is nothing about the legislation that he criminalizes

carjackings. the fact of the matter is that the revised criminal code puts carjacking as a separate offense. with the revised criminal code does is to have a maximum penalty that is about 10 years longer than what the typical sentence is. but that is the challenge. the messaging is quite clear to me that the headwinds that have prevailed in congress are about the politics of year's election. the fact is that the criminal code is my we pulled this back. host: what should be done to

enhance public safety in your community? take a look. saying that the d.c. city council caved and withdrew their dangerous crime bill for burglary, carjacking and robbery. this decision comes less than a week after house republicans voted to block this dangerous bill. randy is up next in michigan. good morning. caller: i think the biggest problem that we have is the same thing that we had. it is like wisconsin and michigan. wisconsin is a bunch of old drunks and michigan has a lot of hotheads. those people get caught with it and sit in jail until they can get it out of their system.

if an alcoholic drinks, and three days, he can get clean and go back to work come in three days he gets to go back to work. all these potheads need to go 31 days for a trace amount. you can have it in your system for 31 days. host: what do you recommend? caller: i recommend changing the law. i've seen probably more than 1000 people smoke pot in my life. i have seen that 20 times in a bar. just last week, i watched him at the tavern, i watched heroin being sold there and i watched alcohol being sold there. do we know many drugs that are harder than that? let's go after alcohol. that is the most dangerous drug. i watched my brother do heroin

in the bedroom, come home, 10 minutes later be able to sit there and play great. i watched my brother drink beer and not be able to say his name. if we just use our brain, we can see which is the hardest drug. we should take people, stick them at the top of a hill, put them on a bicycle. here is $1000. let's see who can make it to the bottom of the hill alive. we need to show people the truth of what pot really is. host: hello, ricky caller:. -- hello, ricky. caller: crime is running rampant. ever since the pandemic, crime has been running rampant.

crime has gone up about 100%. murder, robbery, carjackings and drug abuse has run i as well. it is an unitive and all social media. people with addiction sleeping on the sidewalk, it is running rampant. host: do you have any ideas? ricky, do you have any ideas as what he -- as to what you think should be done? caller: i set a couple things. pretty much, you have --

education is one. have a drug program. we need to increase our police officers to make all the neighborhoods safe. nobody should be scared to go out. nobody should be scared to take the kid out because of crime. most families are scared because their child might get hit. host: let's take a look at a couple more sweet. despite slight primate, house democrats are putting people over politics by voting against a resolution to approve of the new soft on crime proposal. and senator mike says i am

thankful for the radical sentencing bill. the nation's capital is already asked. thing historic crime crisis. violent criminals across the country must no longer be emboldened. unfortunately, we are seeing the same pattern in that he's nationwide. threatening the safety of american families and communities. we need to hold criminals accountable. good morning, terrence. caller: getting that -- getting rid of the union -- as far as the crime is concerned, if you commit murder, you get convicted, you die. you might get your one appeal and then you die. you carjacked someone, 25 years

but these people have to fear the law. putting more cops on the street will not do anything. he raped a child or woman, life. it is simple. to me, it is simple. you are letting them out to recommit these crimes. it does not matter what color you are. if you commit a crime you should pay the ultimate crime -- ultimate price in most cases. thank you. host: good morning, kathleen. you are on the air. caller: thank you. i love washington journal. i think people have a lot of great suggestions. most of us know that it needs to be multipronged effort. i spent time in dayton, ohio. they used to be thriving but now

there are zombies walking on the street everywhere on mess -- m eth. the issue is huge. i spent time in colorado, a very different town, and there is a lot of homeless there. there are also a lot of meth issues. we need to do more serious training of our police officers and get more professionals on the street. need to have more serious repercussions in regards to crime. i think our police officers need more training, but they also need to be paid better. they are just not paid very well.

dealing with mental health issues for kids for years and he says he is putting band-aids on all of the problem because there is not enough mental health counselors, so we need to increase that as well. i wanted to ask you guys, some guy from florida earlier talked about jobs. they used to be making 25 bucks an hour in the 90's. now it is $11 per hour, including walmart. people need to make more money so that they can choose to keep a humble home or a car. it increases drug use and depression, so clearly, poverty has something to do with all of this. host: j on the independent line. caller: what about the parents?

does anybody have accountability for these children or young teenagers? for 13 years now, i can assure the public right now, this is as real as it comes that police are not going to get involved, unless they have to. the system of letting people go -- that is exactly correct. police officers are going to do as little as possible because they are afraid of getting in trouble and going to prison. i believe in the court system. you have to be punished. there has to be accountability for crimes. i do not care what anybody says. everything is against police. nobody is wanting to take accountability on who is doing the crime.

when it is why officers, everybody is quick to jump on that. i just feel that i can assure people that crime is going to go higher. they can give you all the stats that you want, but police do not want to get involved. you might have a few stragglers, but not overall. you will not have massive protests. i hope that people understand that cops are good people. there are bad ones as well. i have seen many things that make me shake my head. host: let's take a look at this article that says dallas has become a model for policing. u.s. senator john carney and introduced a bill shaped in part by the method to offer federal

grants that pay for de-escalation and mental health response training. the texas senator recently discussed funding which he called a role model for other citizens. despite widespread calls for police reform, after the murder of george floyd in 2020, many federal efforts have failed to pass. the de-escalation training act is one of the few exceptions. let's talk to kathy next. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. this morning on the news, there were two reports, the state police officer in maryland -- the gateway to the resort town of ocean city, this is a very

rural area. this police officer was shot several times and was likely able to survive. the second incident was another man who had shot a victim seven times, luckily able to survive. the point i am making is that this urban crime is spilling over into other areas that have since been inundated with everything to do with drug trafficking. that is a deliberate link to the problems with the border, however, the problem is, why do we keep voting for democrats, when they know that there is no change insight? it is just not happening. the point is to go to the polls

and vote for a conservative, whoever that might be, so that you can stop this escalation of lawlessness in this country. i do not understand why we continue to do the same thing over and over again because it is not working. host: we got your point. let's go to the line for democrats. caller: i think where we are now -- this is a de-escalation of our country. factories started closing. steel plants -- we lost everything that paid well for working class people. the drug trade has survived. there is a linear elation ship. i think that until we bring

industrial jobs back to the country, we will have the same problem over and over. host: reminding people that we are taking your calls on what you think should be done to enhance public safety. you can give us a call by party affiliation. here is what president biden said about that d.c. crime bill. he said, i do not support some of the changes d.c. counsel put forward over the mayor's objections. if the senate votes to overturn the d.c. counsel, i will sign it. here is a top house democrat. he was on cnn and he was talking about how he thought 2020 for politics was behind biden's

decision. >> would it be a mistake to override this bill, overwriting the decision by a city that is 50% african-american, on how to govern itself on the issue of crime? >> i do not want to characterize what he may or may not do. the senate has not even done anything yet. but what i can say is that i will continue to support the principal of local government control. there are more than 700,000 people in the district of columbia. they can continue to work out those issues. >> you think some of this is about those democrats that are right about tough reelection campaigns, worried about democrats being soft on crime? >> i think we have a strong record.

it will save lives. we have to do more. we have a vision for doing more, banning weapons of war on our streets. i think that we can lean into this issue, moving forward. host: that was jeffrey's talking about crime and that d.c. crime bill. we are asking you what you think should be done to enhance safety around the country. we will go to john. caller: thank you. we have taken all of the power away from the police. they do not have any power anymore. they are not even allowed to put their arm around a child's neck.

that is what is wrong. everything goes. host: what more powers should police have? caller: what they used to have when i was growing up. i remember when the teachers had the authority. if you are not up raid of the police -- look what happened to georgia. they just do whatever they want. but if you get back, that is what is wrong. thank you. host: good morning, evelyn. caller: good morning. i listened to everyone calling in this morning, here in maryland, they are working on a bill that anybody 25 and under cannot be charged with a felony.

i am a democrat, but that is the worst thing i have ever heard. by the time you are 25, you should know better. at the time you're 18, you know right from wrong. i think that the thing that would help everything is if they would pay more attention and put more funds into education, starting from pre-k, i think, instead of using money to keep constantly building jails and detention centers, and might help because the kids over the age of 18, if they go in the right -- wrong direction, it will be hard to turn them around , but from the very beginning, that will make a difference. if you cannot catch these kids in the beginning, nothing will change. host: william is next in caller:

milwaukee, wisconsin. caller:thank you for taking the call. when i was a kid, i was afraid of the cops because my parents were. if i ever brought the cops my home, i would be catching hell. i think parents should be responsible for their child. children who commit a crime that would be a felony -- if a child does something like that, the parents should be facing the criminal charges for aiding and abetting. they should go to jail for a year or two for what the child dead. they would think twice before breaking the law. that is all i have to say. thank you for taking my call. host: david. caller: thank you for taking my

call. i also believe that the rules should be stricter and enforced. there should be a lot of research done as the healthy outpatient programs are working for drug rehabs. i think that they work. i think that the people should focus on not doing drugs and the crime would go down. i do not see any of this money being spent lifting people from poverty from the middle-class into the upper class. i think that the money needs to be spent there. host: all right. adrian in california. good morning. adrian, are you there? edward is in new jersey on the independent line. good morning.

caller: enhancing public safety, we should do something about how accessible guns are in our country. it is a gun accessibility problem that we have the most. access to guns. we should do something about that. as i, drugs and alcohol, but crime, we should look at crime in a wider spectrum. white-collar crime, if you will and militarization of our police force is, if we would spend less money on militarization of our forces, it would make us all safe. raising our minimum wage by providing social services to the

people. health care -- i think that would do it. host: carol sent us a text that says that guns are the biggest problems. next is to get rid of the likes of trump and all of his crazy dangerous supporters and congress. they do not love america. dave, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a simple question to ask. we do not seem to be making much progress we making our own system of life i do not even know if we have more than a peace treaty with them. they are allowing bombardment of drugs across the border. what if we suggest to return all those drugs and let it rain from

the sky with others refunds? perhaps they would think it over. host: democrats line. caller: good morning, america. i think that the crime, the high crime that we believe is going on in the country has a lot to do with how much the conservatives hype it up and talk about it. i'm not saying that there is no crime in america, i think it is no different than what it has been the past 30 to 40 years. if you look at the news, pretty much every state and city, you will see more on the news of black crime, as if the only crime in america is poor,

working, drug addict black folks. i think that the police officers should be more trained and educated on how to de-escalate and to work with the communities to prevent a cop shooting someone in the back or a cop shooting somebody when they are actually submitting to their arrest or whatever. i strongly believe that the hype about crime is escalating. it is outrageous. we should see crimes of all sorts in every city, every state , every town throughout the country. host: let's check in on

pittsburgh, pennsylvania. caller: i agree with a couple callers back. i am a social worker. i used to work as a therapist and the biggest issue i saw where people freshly released from incarceration with a lack of resources. they did not have stable housing . they did not have food, clothing or access to the basic needs. these people are more likely to go back to a life of crime because they do not feel they have another option. i had one of the highest success rates in graduation because i did not just provide therapy but resources to help get them on their feet. what we need to do is create more housing that is dignified,

not just projects that we see. places that people want to live. if we do that, we would see the crime rate go down significantly. having social workers responding to 911 rather than police officers. many times you see police officers escalating the issue rather than diffusing it. they are not trained to deal with those kinds of crises. that would play a role in getting this produced. host: regarding my terrace said, here is an opinion from the new york times, part of it saying, recommending to change who answers mental health calls.

estimates range from 5% to 30% involving behavioral health issues which call centers and officers are ill-equipped to answer. officers receive nearly 60 hours of firearms training but only eight hours of training for handling people with mental illness. jack is next. in montana, republican. caller: how are you doing? my opinion is that we need to get back to being the tough americans that we used to be. mental health is a big issue. everybody wants to talk about guns, but you have kids running around nowadays that are shooting each other over arguments. tammy, that is a mental health issue. we did not do that in the 1980's. we actually fought each other.

this political correctness and this racial rhetoric needs to go. we need to get back to the tough america that we were and be tough on crime. quit empowering these criminals and start empowering law enforcement again. i just -- i am 52 and i have watched america go downhill since the obama administration. everybody wants to talk about how great obamacare was, and in one way it was, but in another way, input millions of people that were mentally ill, on the streets. host: let's go to the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. wonderful program. thank you for the service. i want to say that i appreciate all of this and all of the

americans calling in and learning. we need to learn from one another more. instead of pointing blame, we need to construct the way that we want the future to look. i think we should learn from alaska and find out more about the permanent fund dividend. if we gave people the money come as an earlier caller said, when people are returning from the prison system, they do not have resources, but if everyone had a guarantee and if everyone took the opportunity to learn from others, i really feel as though we lost the drug war and there are countries out there that led people drag it the way they want to.

who are we to tell a person how to live their life that does not affect us, personally? host: let's hear from william in jackson, mississippi. caller: thank you for taking my call. i will be very brief. we are talking about the crime bill. you look on youtube or online, you will see the pio -- the police violating people's rights. why are they not held responsible? 1% of the police it would do wrong to people are prosecuted. that is not right. they should have their own counsel to investigate police. i listen to some talking about the democrats. i want people to know this. slavery, jim crow, all those were conservative laws and

rules. i live in a state, my second cousin voted for appropriations to come to the city and the only representative who voted for it all conservative districts are getting it. they were the ones that voted against it. then, you have people like this last caller calling and and talking about protection for the affordable care act. they are the main ones benefiting from it, but it is a bad idea. it's another bad idea for hillary -- host: we are out of time. i want hank everyone who called in and participated with us. next, scott paul discusses the state of manufacturing in the u.s. and the impact of china's economic and trade policies. later, the foundation for the

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washington journal continues. host: i'm joined now by scott paul. we will be talking about competitiveness with china. welcome to the program. guest: thank you. it is good to be with you. host: let's talk about your program. who are the members and how is it funded? guest: we have been around for about 15 years. we are pretty unique in washington, in that we are a partnership between a labor union, the united steelworkers, and some of its domestic manufacturing partners. we focus on manufacturing policy, trade policy, we advocate for public policies that will strengthen our economic policy and manufacturing in america. host: an funding comes from the members? guest: absolutely. it is derived through public -- through public bargaining. in this case, we bring everything to the table. it gives a sale is more power that way.

host: i will just remind our viewers that you can give us a call if you would like to ask a question or make a comment. our lines are by party affiliation. we do have a line set aside for if you work in the manufacturing sector. be sure to call in if you work in the manufacturing sector on a special line, which is (202) 748-8003. you can also use that line for sending us texts. earlier this month, you testified for the house select committee. he said our hubris and neglect aided russia's invasion, hollowed out our middle class. explain that to us. guest: sure, thank you. the concern that this committee has is with the policies of the chinese coming as party and how

they made -- how they may threaten security, a variety of concerns. i want to contribute also that we made missteps along the way in the united states. the way in which we invited china into the world trade system was basically a blank check and trust that china would fulfill its obligation. that did not pan out. we must make ourselves more competitive. i think that has changed recently, but i think the policies of the chinese coming as party and the fact that we were not prepared lead to some devastating consequences. basically, stuff we were once making in the united states was made in china. host: devastating consequences like what? guest: for example, in the midwest, we lost tens of thousands of factories over a short amount of time, when that

this -- within the span of a decade. major employers of these people did not particularly have four-year degrees. these were full effects show people weren't spending at the grocery stores or country meeting to taxes. in many ways, these community suffered and they're still digging out of the hole. research has been done princeton and m.i.t. that showed that the job loss and the wage loss also contributed to some devastating social consequences. more depths of despair, higher divorce rates, lots of really profound impact for these communities in the heartland. i think we saw this manifest in politics over the last seven or eight years. let's talk about manufacturing

host: host: -- let's talk about manufacturing jobs. an average of 33,000 jobs were added per month in 2022. that doesn't sound like a bad thing. guest: this is a good thing. the last couple of years, we have seen a reversal. the pandemic brought to light that if we don't want a massive amount of shortages or supply chain disruptions, we need to invest in america made vectoring again. i think many in the private sector have woken up to that fact. i think public policies are starting to reflect that as well. we are seeing big investments in american manufacturing. there were a couple of decades where there weren't a lot of announcements or ribbon cuttings. now, we are seeing all sorts of plant opening announcements in high tech, steel, lots of other stuff as well.

i think the pandemic brought into focus that we can't depend on china or other countries alone to supply the goods that we need, particularly in a time of crisis. we are starting to turn around the ship, but i think the focus on china is still important because there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. host: let's talk about semiconductors, because that has been a big problem within the supply chain and not having ou conductors. l's take a look at the chips act. it says 53 billion dollars in grants for semiconductor manufacturing and research invested in support and research for semiconductor manufacturing through 2026. give us an overview of how that chips act is supposed to work and if anything has been happening so far. guest: i think a lot has been happening and it's good news. the initial round of funding

has, i think, spurred a lot of private sector investment. you have seen firms, some with brand names that people recognize, like intel and texas instruments, announced that they are expanding and building new semiconductor manufacturing facilities in the united states. all over the place. a lot of these are in high tech semiconductor manufacturing. but we will also see investments in the supply chain as well. this is happening in arizona, idaho, new york, ohio, lots of places. the idea is we will be able to supply more semiconductors that we consume in the united states. we got to a point a generation ago in the early 1990's, when made about one-third of the world's semiconductors and consumed about that much. just last year, when aid -- we made about 7%. consumption stayed very high.

we have built up a big deficit, major dependence on china and taiwan and elsewhere in asia. that is starting to come home and we are seeing the fruits of that. within the next couple of years, i think that will give the united states a lot more capacity, a lot more ability to be resilient. we need to make sure we can build automobiles and washing machines, all the gadgets we append on, things we saw months and months of delays on years ago. host: they are calling this policy where taxpayers are picking winners and losers. kentucky gop republican andy barr spoke out against those calling on those to adopt this against china. [video clip] >> the ccp is entering the final phase of its 100-year marathon

to replace the united states as the world's global superpower. an underappreciated dimension of this strategic competition between the united states and ccp, one of the reasons why the cp -- ccp is arguably ahead of schedule in that marathon is that the ccp's economic aggression against the west. but i believe very strongly that the united states should not mimic the chinese industrial policy, should not copy the chinese command and control system. we should not embrace overly broad measures that would raise questions about our commitment to a market economy, which is a key source of strength to the united states in contrast to china's communist central planning policies. in other words, as this committee does its work and as

we consider policy responses to the threats from the ccp, i would submit to my colleagues and policymakers in this country , we should not try to counter china by becoming more like china. host: scott, what do you think of that? he says we're going to become more like china. guest: in that hearing, i agreed with about 99% of the things said by everybody, which is where to find in a hearing. i did not agree with that. i felt he was setting up a straw man. the chips act is so far away from beijing's command-and-control of economy, i could not draw more distance to that. these are private-sector firms that are using the lower caste -- lower cost of capital in the united states. i think it is extraordinary. the government is not going to run these factories, tell them how to produce, what to make, anything like that. there will be conditions for getting that capital, but it is going to give them a head start.

it is nothing like what we see, or the government literally owns hundreds upon hundreds of water called state owned enterprises that manufacture. they have no profit motive. all of these american companies are going to have profit motive. the other thing i would add is that we tried, i think, the purest approach, the free-market hands-on approach, for couple of decades, in terms of trying to compete with china. we have had lots of deregulation. none of that has made us in a more competitive position. he made corporations a lot richer. they are returning some of that to the united states, investing in factories here. they are going to give us a leg up. i agree with congress must -- with congressman barr, we should not be like china. the chips act is as far from that as we can possibly get. host: you've been watching this

topic for a long time why do you think there is a shift now among congress and policymakers, and this renewed focus on china and competitiveness with china? guest: i think a couple of things have produced a harmonic convergence of events. first, as i mentioned, before the pandemic, it brought into focus how dependent we are on china for things, ranging from edison to ppe, to semiconductors. i think that caused a bit of shock to the system. i remember this ship being stuck in the swiss canal and having to fly back and forth across the world, maybe we can simplify this a little bit. i think the theory changed a little bit as well. i will say, i have known for some time and policymakers are

making up -- are waking up to the fact that the commonest party, xi jinping, he wants to use the west and our technology, use our consumer base. he wants no other part of western values. he wants to re-create a chinese state that is both powerful, driven by the party, not aligned with market forces, and he kind of got what he wanted out of american companies, which was their technology, trillions of dollars in investment. now, he is saying, we are going to do this our way and send you to the highway. i think that also has driven some of this concern. host: and it's not just investment, its intellectual property he got from american companies. guest: that's exactly right. in some cases, it was given away, in terms of technology transfer and joint ventures. in other cases, it was stolen through industrial espionage or

a lack of enforcement. piracy of intellectual property. that added up to $600 billion in losses for the u.s. economy, which is a profound amount. but i think that is a big concern. something i heard during that hearing was that that's an issue that both democrats and republicans still definitely want to tackle here. host: we are going to start taking calls, but i have one more question about the bipartisan infrastructure law. what have we seen with that? what impacts have we seen to manufacturing capabilities? guest: that's a great question. as i was asked leaning before, one of the things we did not do a good job of is making our economy more competitive for the last couple of decades. the infrastructure act is a piece of that. we will be more efficient, have better broadband, transit, shipping. we will have that are logistic supply chain abilities within the united states. all of that is great.

we have seen new orders come into material suppliers for infrastructure. you have seen president biden, democrats and republicans, some of whom do not support this bill, are at ribbon cuttings for a lot of these projects. we are seeing a lot get done. there will be $1.2 trillion investment over the next five or six years to come out of the infrastructure bill. that is going to lift our efficiency, our competitiveness up in the manufacturing sector in a way we have not seen for many decades. host: let's go to the phones now. peter is up first in new york on the republican line. caller: good morning. esther paul, i saw you testify before congress. i had a couple of things to comment on. this issue about outsourcing started back in the 1970's, when i was a young man. this was bipartisan, republicans

and democrats. they allowed american companies to outsource their factories to china and other companies -- other countries because it was cheaper for them to produce goods and services -- i mean, goods, in these foreign countries and ship them to the united states rather than manufacture them here. the problem with the way we do business is that subsidizing manufacturing over here, i guess for example with the chips bill, is not the complete solution here. we tried that during the obama administration, making solar panels here in the united states. they went out of business because they could not compete with china. i think we need to adopt a policy that japan has, where companies who are manufacturing here in the united states cannot close down the manufacturing here. if they want to open up companies in other countries,

fine. they could possibly use the profits they make their to subsidize their companies here. that's fine. and if they decide to close down and go overseas, then we tax whatever they ship into the united states, so that companies that are producing here can make a profit. also what was not discussed during your testimony was what environmentalists played into this problem. with all the environmental regulations and every thing else that goes with it, it makes it more expensive to do business here in the united states. host: ok, peter. let's get a response. guest: thanks for the question. i think it's a good one. during the testimony, i did articulate, i think, how we have what is called the china price. it is an impossibly low price. if american firms cannot compete on a level playing field, then that's right, jobs are going to go overseas. but particularly with the case

of china, a lot of the advantage built up was artificial and unfair, partly because of a lack of enforcement of their labor rights laws or their own environmental laws. if you have seen the smog in beijing, we definitely don't want to stoop to that level. it is very bad. we saw currency manipulation that made their goods artificially cheaper coming into the united states, made our goods more expensive. we saw these trillions of dollars of government subsidies that may chinese factories more competitive. peter, i agree with you that investing in our semiconductor industry or any other industry alone is not going to do it. we also have to have a trade solution to that. part of what i think is helping drive some of this manufacturing back to the united states are the tariffs that are in place. i know they are controversial, but they do serve as a deterrent for more firms to set up operations in china and they also are going to drive supply

chains over the long run out of china as well. right now, about one third of chinese products that are coming to the united states are subject to these tariffs. very few of these are consumer products. they're usually what we call intermediate goods, which going to something else. that has an impact as well. i agree that it is more than an investment solution. you need a trade solution as well if we are going to be effective in all of this. host: speaking of trade, we have a question for you from gary on twitter. what are we going to do about that $350 billion -- $350 billion for sick with china? guest: it peaked with china a couple years ago, but that is a massive loss of u.s. capacity there. eventually, kind of like our budget deficit, the trade deficit is not just some decent tarik number that never has to be paid. -- esoteric number that never

has to be paid. part of this is that we are enriching, and one of the republican members made this point during the hearing, we are enriching the ccp through all of this. but there is a lot of factors in this. the value of the dollar, consumer behavior, or companies are locating production. there's tons of things that impact all of this. i will not pretend like it is an easy solution. you cannot just wish away this trade deficit. but it will take a focus. until there is a focus on how to deal with this, it will really not come down. host: steve is next in maryland, democrat. good morning, steve. caller: yes, it amazes me that ignorance of our legislative branch. 40 years of outsourcing and off shoring, and now all of a sudden we have woken up the big dumb giant. the big dumb giant is so far behind now in manufacturing that we are not coming back anytime soon, not in five years.

it took 40 years plus to get here. technically, the legislative ranch of the united states of america enacted laws to outsource and offshore. i love it. all of a sudden, when the pandemic came, as you said, we realize we don't have anything here. we don't have anything here because we don't make anything here. the reason that is, is because the united states is no longer a country that does. we are a country of talkers. there is no way in god's creation we are going to turn this around in five years or 10 years. it is going to take 40 years. economic policy takes 40 years to see how those policies are going to pan out. host: do you agree with that? guest: i think steve asked a great question. i am more optimistic, i'm just going to say. i think it will take less than 40 years. what i think there are a couple

of things we have to be aware of. i think steve correctly diagnoses that it was both democrats and republicans that neglected all of this for a number of decades. he cannot blame one side or the other. it was a little bit of both. but what we need to do moving forward is, first of all, making sure the investments we are making in domestic manufacturing stay there. they are not rolled back in any way. we also need to understand that semiconductors, while important, are one small part of the manufacturing ecosystem in the united states. there are many other cases where we have significant vulnerabilities and we depend -- and pharmaceuticals are great example of this. we are incredibly dependent on china for the chemicals that go into active pharmaceutical ingredients for things like antibiotics that we depend on. we need some focus on that as well. what we cannot afford to do is

reverse policies that have been put into place. but it is going to take time. i think we can get there. we have never seen more manufacturing construction take place in the united states! we are right now. we are never going to re-create the manufacturing economy of the 19 70's, 1960's, 1950's, 1940's. we are in global competition. there are robotics and all sorts of things now. we are never going to have that. but i think we can have a new manufacturing economy that still looks pretty awesome and is going have thousands of people in it. it's going to be a lot cleaner, exciting, and i think there is a lot to look forward to if we play the policy card right. host: bradley is next in west virginia. he worked in manufacturing. hi, bradley. caller: good morning, c-span. good morning, scott. guest: good morning. caller: when i got out of

school, i moved to cleveland, ohio and worked for at&t telephones. we manufactured telephones and stuff. it shut down. now, you get the telephone from across the water. when it goes bad, you throw it in the garbage. southeast of cleveland or steel mills, or as they called it, the flats. they also had steel plants in charlston and in west virginia. all of those are gone. it's a disgrace that our many factoring has moved to foreign countries. the thing if it is, is the dollar. to show you a good example, back in october, i bought a brand-new general motors. it was a little buick car. i didn't look at any of it. my wife bought it and i told the boy to write up a good contract with her and everything. when i got home on saturday, i got the paperwork out and guess where the general motors car was

made? it was made in china. i was so mad, i just about went out and put five gallons of gas on and burnt it. then, i had my refrigerator worked on. it is general electric. they put a little fan in it. i asked the guy to look on the box and see where that is made. i'm a vietnam veteran. we lost thousands of veterans over there in vietnam. anyway, the guy opened the box up and guess what? general electric has moved to vietnam for the cheap labor. the fan and the motor remade over there. i got so mad, i told him you could just about take that out of here and throw in the river if it wasn't for shutting that refrigerator down. general electric, an american company. host: all right, let's get a response. guest: bradley, thank you. and thanks for the perspective from west virginia. i think it is an important one and something that gets overlooked a lot of folks in

this town. i will say that gm, general electric, both companies still manufacture in the united states. you can find appliances and cars in the united states. just because it is an american company, that doesn't mean it is going to be manufactured here. looking at the label is incredibly important for all of that, and having access to it. by the way, a lot of folks want to make it harder for consumers to know where their products would be made we are fighting back against that at the federal trade commission and in congress, to make sure there is truth in labeling and that things are well labeled, so consumers know exactly what they are buying. but it is also true, in the case of both appliances and automobiles, where there used to be a lot of domestic production, there is now a lot of imports coming in as well.

there's many complicated reasons for that as well. again, i am optimistic. bradley, i have a colleague in west virginia who was just telling me that the steel mill has slowed down a lot, but there has been new hiring in critical mineral processing and some other things like this. those are exciting opportunities that are happening out there. and virtually every manufacturer i know right now has a hiring sign outside. they are all looking for help, which is a great time to be looking for a manufacturing job in almost every part of the country right now. host: terry is next in indiana, independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i will say good morning to america and thanks for c-span and taking my call.

mr. paul, another couple of paul's. rand paul and ron paul are great men. i see you are part of manufacturing. i think that's great. i think rand paul would make a great president. but maybe since trump is so popular, and i love the guy too, maybe he would make a good vice president, since he is not as popular as mr. trump. i am very happy to see that this industry is starting up here in america. we need to buy american stuff. that helps america. america needs a lot of help right now and it makes me happy to see this program. host: all right, let's go to bill in new york, democrats. caller: good morning. i tend to over talk, so if i do, just turn me off. i'm sitting here watching you on

a chinese television set, wearing primarily chinese clothes, and i'm going to be driving my nissan, which is japanese. i recognize that the companies doing this are not u.s. companies. it doesn't say where my chairs are, what the company is. most companies are, in fact, international. they are owned by people from all over the world. this chip spill starts to move in the right direction. it gives us a chance to have a regulated industry, where we can set how much they are going to give us, the consumers, the money to not have to pay for everything at the highest prices. it also, to a certain extent, says manufacturer here, don't

manufacture offshore. manufacturing offshore is cheaper. we raise our tariffs, china and every other country in the world will do the same thing. host: ok, bill. comments? guest: i totally get the point about the companies, whether they are japanese or what have you. i will say this, there are a lot of global companies that do have manufacturing operations in the united states. they have been set appear for a variety of reasons. some of it is tariff avoidance, because we have the largest consumer market in the world. where 5% of the world's population, but we buy about almost 20% of the world's stuff. it's a really good place if you want to sell into this market. i also agree, and i think you're getting to this point, that there needs to be some corporate accountability here. the chips act does provide that. you are not going to get chips

money for a factory that is overseas. it has to be in the united states and we want those jobs to be good jobs. you are creating some value and ripple effects throughout the communities in which these are located. i think that is a good, positive step in the right direction. i know the prior collar was from a fiat, indiana. i and a hoosier, from the state of indiana. i would never have believed in a million years that there would be a semiconductor factory coming to west lafayette, indiana, but by god there is, things to the chips act. host: let's go to virginia. doug is a republican. caller: hey there, thanks for taking my call. i am a big fan of c-span. manufacturing is obviously so important for the health of the economy, but also making sure that we are not shipping jobs abroad. god forbid we get into a military conflict.

i think all the calls you are taking shows there are concerted efforts on both sides to maintain purchases in the u.s. if you buy a physical good, it says where it is made on the box. if it is online, that is not the case. most people who go through amazon, it is clear that it is really difficult to find where it is made or even avoid goods made in china. i know there is talk at some point around trying to make that a requirement. dear guest -- does your guest have any thoughts on why that legislation failed previously? host: what do you think? guest: that's a good question. there is a legislative solution to this. i know that senator tammy baldwin from wisconsin was one of the sponsors of this. it was called the "country of origin online labeling act." if you buy something on amazon,

target, ali baba, wherever, there are no requirements that they tell you where that product is made right now. even though a physical marking, as you indicated, it is required from everything from clothing to automobiles, if you are making the online purchase, he might not find out where the product is made until you actually get that product into your hands. senator baldwinsville, and it is bipartisan, would change that. it almost made it into the chips act last year. it got tossed out at the last minute. i'm optimistic, particularly with this focus on the value of american manufacturing, the importance of this, that there will be an opportunity to get it done this year. you can contact her own members of congress and let them know it is important to you. host: robin is in washington, independent. caller: thank you so much for

taking my call. hello, mr. paul. i really appreciated your testimony during a meeting last week. i thought your perspective was interesting. i order a lot of things online. i'm not able to be out in public to do things. i don't know oftentimes where those things are coming from. as i watch these meetings, i feel like we are in this game of chess and that the only reason this trade with china has become a big earth of contention is because there are allies with russia, iran, enemies basically of the state. i just feel like this has been a long time coming. previously, there was a one

point $5 billion debt to china. i'm just wondering how much they are pulling our strings and what you think we can really do within this administration and perhaps the next to put ourselves in a better position on the board. host: all right, robin. guest: robin, that's a great question. one of the important things to know about the select committee that was formed is that it does not have any legislating authority. it can make recommendations, discover hearings, bring issues into more of a spotlight, as it has tried to do over the last week, and there will be a lot more of that as well. it is ultimately going to be up to their committees in congress to get legislation across the finish line. that is what i am very concerned about, because that is where

those entrenched interests can get in there. there are a lot of global companies that are perfectly fine with the status quo. they're making a lot of money for shareholders, but there is a whole lot else that is suffering. i will say that we have seen both republicans and the last administration, the trump administration, with tariffs in particular, the biden administration with restrictions on semiconductor technology and maintaining those tariffs, which he did not have to do, but he chose to do. i think we are seeing a positive trend to wear a lot of this is headed. host: alexander is in brooklyn, new york. alexander, you are a government manufacturer? caller: i think that was stated wrong, but i am a garment manufacturer. but it it brings to the point about government contracts.

i think this is an interesting conversation. in the clothing manufacturing sector, we provided ppe for the city and government. i think that the pandemic, it was evident that government manufacturing could come back once given the opportunity, once the pandemic was over or ppe wasn't as needed. the government just went back to manufacturing in china. we tried getting these contracts, but we were always outbid. i would just think, and i know time is short, but what i understand as far as our industry goes, the united states has a huge capability of manufacturing cotton goods. cotton is all throughout the south. you have tons of mills. what they will do is actually

make the yarn here, ring it over to latin america, make t-shirts there, then bring them back to the united states. a $1 billion industry and we don't even make 2% of it here. i just want to know, i understand there are investments . host: go ahead, scott. guest: alexander brings up a lot of good points. there are manufacturers particularly in garments and textiles that have stepped up to make that ppe when we could not get access to it. it literally was a lifesaver for a lot of people. i agree that it was wrong for both the government and also the purchasing organizations, the middleman, to supply the medical industry to lean back on china again. i think that needs to be reversed and there needs to be

tariffs reimposed on the chinese ppe. we need to reassure that. one thing i have learned from garments and textiles is that if you have the intent to make it in the united states, it is possible to do that. it is not widescale right now and there are a lot of obstacles that stand in the way. i think of a brand like american giant, that start to finish does stuff in the united states and has been wildly successful. while there is clearly a market for, it takes that intent, investment, and overcoming a lot of obstacles. host: the fed has been raising interest rates paid has that has an impact on manufacturing? guest: it has. manufacturing has been doing well in spite of it. it can be really booming, were it not for the fed. the fed's actions, i think, have an impact on manufacturing and a number of different ways. first, interest rates tend to reduce demand for people buying products. whether they are taking out a

loan for an automobile or a new house. there's construction materials. that has a ripple effect as well. the second way it affects that is when you are raising interest rates, you are raising demand for the dollar. the treasury, everything looks more attractive and interest rates are better. that attracts a lot of foreign investment in the dollar as well. the net result of that is that the value of the dollar increases it makes our exports more expensive going overseas, it makes imports coming into the united states cheaper for american consumers, which some people like, of course. but this is hard for american manufacturing. we have seen export performance lag because of the overly strong dollar right now. host: in the fed chairman, jerome powell, will be testifying in front of the senate banking housing and urban

affairs committee. that is coming up today at 10 a.m. eastern, right after this program, over on c-span3. you can also watch it on c-span now, our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. let's talk to stephen in concorde, california, democrats line. caller: the morning. thank you for taking my call. i can say i've been watching so many railroad accidents in america and i think what is happening is no one is watching the rolling stock and how old it gets. environmental changes happen in the world and stuff is wearing out quicker because it is metal to metal, rolling on steel. it gets harder to lubricate something. you need barcodes on all the railcars, tracking them, their wear and tear, and what is happening. barcode readers all over the country in supermarkets and

stores. like everything, you don't like, you don't cheat, you don't steal, and you do things according to the rules, the next-door naval rule. watch your next-door neighbor and what is happening. this country needs to feel the same way about its self. good neighbors have good fences, they are aware of what's happening in their neighborhood. host: class comment, scott? guest: i think you make a good point here. the freight rail industry would be well served by investing in both the rolling stock, the cars it has, and making sure that our freight rail infrastructure is safe, secure, modern as well. i think that is going to be very important from a rail safety perspective as we move forward. host: scott paul, president of the alliance for american manufacturing, thanks for joining us. guest: thanks to you and your listeners.

host: next is defense of democracies's behnam ben taleblu . he discusses a report that shows around is in the next stages of building nuclear weapons. stay with us. ♪ >> if you are enjoying book tv, sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, author discussions, book festivals, and more. book tv, every sunday on c-span2 or anytime online at booktv.org. television for serious readers. ♪ >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source.

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"washington journal." my guest is behnam ben taleblu. welcome to the program. talk about what the defense of democracies is. talk about your mission and who finds you. behnam ben taleblu we are a nonprofit -- guest: we are a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization. it has been active in d.c. now for two decades, founded after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. it is a middle east national terrorism focus. it went on to cover a host of other issues, china, russia, north korea. basically, the who's who of the rogues and adversaries of america. and we are proud not to take any foreign government funding. host: obviously, we are going to talk about iran's nuclear program. there was a house services committee last week where they

said something about iran's ability to create a nuclear bomb. [video clip] >> the nuclear process has been remarkable. back in 2018, when the previous administration decided to leave the jcpoa, it would have taken a ron -- iran one bomb worth of material. now, it would take about 12 days. i think there is still the view that if you can resolve this issue diplomatically and put constraint back on the nuclear program, it is better than the other options. right now, the jcpoa is on ice because there was an arrangement on the table last summer that the iranians were not willing to take. iran's behavior has changed since then, not the least of which is their support of russia against ukraine. i don't think we are on the precipice of reentering the jcpoa. host: a couple of things there.

first was 12 days. was that surprising to you? guest: no. the regime has steadily eroded that one year time that he had mentioned. in particular, they may qualitative nuclear advances right around the time the biden elected and inaugurated. the regime did several things to speed this up. they dropped the clock from summer months to about two weeks, as he mentioned. they have installed more advanced centrifuges. theo's machines -- these are machines that don't break as much and is actually quite critical for a program. the regime has been enriching not just to 20%, which lasted pre-nuclear deals. in april 2021, they went to 60%. a very important subject of discussion now is the regime just played with 84%, the

highest recorded rate ever. they have not decided to mess 84% enriched uranium. the one area i would take issue with where this doctor call was dividing out the nuclear timeline was the main 2018 decision by the u.s. to leave the nuclear deal. it is true that iran has broken the barriers, but let's for -- let's not forget that prior to that deal, the regime had accumulated anywhere from seven bombs to nine bombs worth of uranium. this is absolutely uncharted water and this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the iranian nuclear program. i'm glad that he said we are not on the precipice of reentering that deal precisely because iran feels so comfortable with escalation today that it is happy with the pull punches of the biden administration and it is breaking through newer barriers. it is not the's fault.

it is not president trump's fault. the reason we have no nuclear deal today is precisely because of iran. host: the under secretary said it was a mistake for the trump administration to pull out of the nuclear deal. you agree with that? guest: i think many of us found out the hard way during the trump administration, looking back on it now, you cannot have a holistic iran policy that is aimed at controlling the missile program, drone program, doing something much more credible on human rights, all granting the regime oppression and foreign aggression. those things don't square with me. i would have liked to lead the deal and a qualitatively front way. the transatlantic road between the u.s. and its partners, they were necessary. from 2018 to present, across administrations, iran has not

been fighting former presidents or the current president. it has been fighting the united states of america. to start and stop these stopwatches on different administrations is to misunderstand iran's goal. it is not trying to spite one or the other, it is trying to spite the united states. host: if you would like to call in or ask a question, you can do that on our lines by party designation. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001 independents, (202) 748-8002. the undersecretary also said that some deal with iran is better than no deal because it could put constraints on them. is it likely where going to have any deal with iran currently? guest: when they are increase of glee comfortable giving drones to russia to target civilians in

ukraine, these are never before seen levels of accuracy and range. particularly iranian women and girls have been leading protests. i think we would be throwing to regime a lifeline. and we should not be in the business of doing so. philosophically, objectively, should you have diplomacy on the table? yes, you should have all options on the table. my qualm with the way the biden administration approach this is the hyper bipartisan approach. it is russia, china, north korea, where the administration wanted to take a different tack from its assessor. philosophically, some constrains might be better. but what we trade away for those constraints is where i would take umbrage. i would love to see those who want some constraints to put meat on the bone. who exactly are you willing to grant sanctions released to the?

what kind of changes have you seen from organizations? has the irgc ceased to be a terrorist organization? if you can answer me these questions and tell me they deserve sanctions for leave, we can talk about what a limited deal would look like. host: but orion itself does not want to come to the table, as of last summer. guest: that's a whole new ballgame we are dealing with. whether we have deal or no deal, bad deal or no deal the cabal of men is ultra hard line. the regime is consolidati. you have seen that with the current president. he has seen the new national security elite, as well as the longest-serving autocrat now. he is quite content and setting up ultra hardliners for the public after he passes. he is about 84 years old. he has had this job for three decades plus. he seems to be in no mood for a

compromise. he thinks the u.s. is on its way out because america cannot do it itself. it is going to take a lot for us to change this impression. it is sticky in his mind. it is reinforced by a whole variety of things. is not responding to terrorist attacks the way the u.s. left iraq and afghanistan, and the weight iran it got its way. the public basically sacrificed everything alongside the russians to keep us there. the impression that america is not the superpower that it once was. these guys are increasingly comfortable with escalation. that means even if we pull our punches or engage in some kind of restraint policy, which perhaps some opponents may before, that is a fun mental

misreading of where the adversary is today. one only has to go back to what the former secretary of defense used to say, which is the enemy gets the vote. i think it is high time we understand the nature and intentions of this enemy. host: i want to ask about ballistic missile capability in iran. it is not just a myth -- the missile itself, yet guest: it was a three year plus labor of love. i have been with them for a decade this month. for more than decade, different u.s. directors and national intelligence says iran's has the largest missile ballistic allies in the east. that should be were recent, given the constellation of bases. the regime has gone in this past naked from seeing those bases as a threat to an opportunity for a

potential attack. if you remember after the u.s. struck iran's chief terrorist in january 2020, they were with 16 short range missiles. the nonresponse the regime sends from the trump administration then emboldened them to go further on their missile program. there missile program -- the russians are reportedly interested in a missile deal with the iranians. that should worry the europeans. the missile program is making qualitative advances. they have the quantitative advantage. now, they layer on quantitative things. the new mobility, range, precision. these are changing vectors of the iranian missile threat. it is in the hands of their proxies. the -- in yemen, which is now a proxy of the islamic republic,

now have medium-range missile ballistic capabilities. rather than a capability going from a patron to a proxy, from iran to the who sees, we are seeing reverse proliferation. iran tests a new system in yemen. once it is proven its effectiveness, it is relabeled as a new weapon in the arsenal of the patrons. rather, patron to proxy, we are going patron to proxy -- proxy to patron. this is host: an evolving game. any direct threat to the u.s. mainland? guest: the regime has a self-imposed political cap it is not a typical -- political cap. it is not a technical cap. currently from western iran hypothetically, they could strike a tear of southern europe , all of turkey, bulgaria, parts of romania, parts of ukraine. they have a space launch vehicle program.

countries like india in the past have used our technology to move towards a potential icbm capability. they have liquid and solvent propellant systems which give you different levels of maneuverability. a idea for iranian weapon would be a solid propellant. the same entity driving the nuclear program, the drone program, is also driving this range threat. routinely, irgc officials talk about changing this range cap they have. saying it is not permanent. they have made leaps and bounds in this missiles program last year when the whole world was infatuated with iranian drones, i wrote an article talking about changes to new motors the regime had. the regimes outlined these motors, called a pathway to the iranian icbm.

they are comfortable floating with this capability. unlike with the north korean threat, we should get ahead of this threat. host: aside from the drones, talk about the growing alliance with russia and iran's support for the war in ukraine. guest: i am glad you mentioned this. there is a conventional wisdom informed by half a millennia of history. this is a wisdom that iranians know, no country has taken away more land from iran in the past 500 years then the russian federation in the czarist form, soviet union form and the current russian federation form. iran took about a decade plus of negotiating even in air defense deal to get the s 300 from russia, more than a decade ago. the s 300 and s 400 are finding themselves in other middle eastern jurisdictions. even though there is this historical -- and in the recent

era they have had a hard time doing business with one another, this new imperative of contesting what is left of the american led liberal world order, the ideology of these folks, in some kind of a warming alights with china and north korea on one tier and the other syria, venezuela and cuba is making something of a new access of people. even though ideally surely they are different, politically they may look different, they are shooting at the same people and see their domestic survival of one regime as tied to the survival of the other. many of these assumptions these guys have a cap to their cooperation given this 500 years of animosity are increasingly being disproven in places like syria and ukraine. my fear is, ukraine is not the last theater for this new cooperation and the u.s. has to prepare for where that could go in the future. host: you mentioned china. the president of iran recently made a state visit to china,

that was his first visit. guest: that is right. china, if we areking at where the regime is getting the funding for the nuclear program, the missil program, the drone program, there is one country that pre-sanctions, during sanctions and after sanctions. has been the largest licit and illicit importer of iranian oil and petrochemical products. that is the people's republic of china. if one has a cold warm -- take what -- qualm, once you to have a greater qualm with china because their rolling the evolution in iranian capabilities. they are tightening military securities and political ties with china. there has been a 25 year deal talked about in d.c. for years now. iran is now, thanks to china and russia, part of the shanghai

cooperation organization. iran's eastern shift is happening in real time. the volume of d.c., the eastern shift would have begun by may 2018, not a groundswell of ultra hardline views of having the iranian republic to fight -- go east to fight the west. host: let's start with pat in new jersey, republican. caller: good morning. my question is about the future of the nonproliferation regime. what will happen to that if iran goes full war, nuclear, and phillips nuclear weapons? will the nonproliferation machine continue to have legitimacy? guest: you ask a important question, one i do not think d.c. has grappled with. the agreement that is -- that has animated the political lead of d.c. is not mpt, it is the jcp so i.

you are right to pillar the national right of nonproliferation, the treaty. iran is in violation of that treaty. iran is in violations of its safeguards agreement that govern how the ie ae investigates the material it has allegedly declared. it would be a torpedo for a nonproliferation treaty. the regime may do something clever if it decides to weaponize or do an underground test or publicize such a test. it might first leave the nonproliferation treaty to say it is not in violation of it and test something underground. that is needless loitering on behalf of iran. a nuclear weapon in the hands former -- of state terrorism would be a major blow to the nbt. it would set off in my view and likely others in washington a cascade of proliferation among

americans, allies and adversaries, not just in the middle east globally. let's not forget the u.s. during a cold war had a hard time constraining some of its allies and nuclear programs, and had a hard time assuaging for security concerns in response to conventional and nuclear capabilities that american adversaries in different theaters of conflict pose. host: we've got a question via text. who would be in control of iran's nuclear weapons if there were another popular revolution? this brings up what is going on internally with internal politics in iran with protests around muni's death. guest: this is a two-pronged question. currently, who is in charge of this arsenal, these capabilities? unfortunately, another dividend of the 2050 nuclear deal, much of the capabilities iran had in terms of its nuclear program,

stockpiles, these were not required to be destroyed. they were required to be stored. if there was some kind of collapse of central authority whether for good or bad, whether some national revolution, a real government into ground that represents the views, ideology of the iranian people, you have not had that for 44 years. or whether they have a old truck far line consolidation after his death and the coup. you could have a collapse of central authority in which there would be questions as to who is governing iran's --? in the collapse of central authority, what if the u.s. or -- what are the u.s. or some of the partners doing to make sure iran does not turn into a major -- network on steroids? these are tough questions. realistically, we do not have an answer because there is no such thing today, at least publicly

in washington, that existed for ukraine, belarus and kazakhstan when the soviet union collapsed to make sure weapons and capabilities do not spread as far as they did beyond the borders of the sunday or -- southern union when it claps. in my view, it does not mean we should put the nuclear clock ahead of the democracy clock. a responsible government would be akin to constraining those capabilities. it is one we have to prepare for best case and worst-case scenario. there is no clear answer in the open source in d.c. host: let's top to billy on the democrat line. crockett, texas. hello. caller: first of all, i want to commend c-span. you are number one. you are the people -- you allow the people to speak. america is the world's leader. other nations out there, they feed off us because we are not afraid of russia. we are not afraid of china. we are here for the people of

ukraine. we are going to win. everybody's going to be with us that is real. the power is going to be with america. america is showing they are under god's guidance and god's rights. we are doing the right thing. brother joe biden is a great president. he is not afraid. he went over in that area and let those people know. he world feeds off america. they can see we are not afraid of china, of russia. just like we were not afraid of adolf hitler. we are true people of god. god is real. you have god, you do not fear anything. that is why i have been an activist and a longtime writer. i do not hear anything. host: all right, billy. comments? guest: i think the caller is talking about a nation that can be guided by divine presence, one who believes in the -- and i fully agree with that. the problem is, adversaries

particularly in the case of the islamic republic, believe they have their god on their side. not to make this into something of a holy war, but these things leave little to no room on the margins for compromise and make conflict much more lightly. i think we need a realistic view of the national security landscape we face. i think as confident as the caller was as to how we can russia, china, iran, which is not at all on the level of threat russia and china posed to us, i think our track record on these issues particularly in the past 20 years have not been as great to want -- to warn the confidence the caller had. the fundamental challenge with our adversaries, they are good at connecting the dots between our behavior and rhetoric and knowing where the gaps are. while i fully support the caller's enthusiasm and, indeed, god bless him, i think it is time to marry our rhetoric to

our reality to foreign in these areas. host: a text from baltimore. i do not know how you can say trump leaving the deal didn't hurt things when we had promises if they broke, there were consequences. not to mention, why would they come back to the table when the next president can leave it? caller: the islamic republic can do what it is doing today. one of the unfortunate parts of the deal is, nothing was destroyed. things were put on ice. guest: the areas, the need for program that are known or declared nuclear program of the islamic republic required to be capped were areas the regime had mastered, areas they could phase into time, areas the regime needed to improve on such as testing and phasing in, operating advanced centrifuges. the deal solved the iranian nuclear program is a fundamental misunderstanding of the program.

it is not designed to be a solution to the iranian nuclear program. the preamble of that deal, we will not seek weapons. if your simile taking the islamic republic at that word, let's talk about a bridge i have you may be interested in. host: bobby sent us a tweet. she said, what threat is around to the u.s. specifically? what gives the u.s. the right to demand views on? iran's nuclear rights program guest: if iran wanted to go for a nuke, and the architecture of nonproliferation, it simply cannot be a -- of these treaties if iran did not want to dividend from the protocol, from being a member in good standing with the obligation. it is trying to diplomat from the -- benefit from the diplomatic cover while incrementally advancing its nuclear programs.

it is about hearing the things you sign up for. in terms of the nature of the iranian threat, the islamic republic prior to the terrorists acts of 9/11 had been behind some of the most grotesque terrorists acts in american history. since world war ii, that ballistic missile barrage, that was the most significant listing missile barrage during peace time world war ii that u.s. soldiers faced. u.s. soldiers simply had to run and cover after missile after missile after missile was designed to terrorize. there were over 140 traumatic brain injuries. i think the official defense department number of casualties was 600 plus, a regime that is put its money where its mouth is when it said death to america. lest we put our mouths -- our

words in the mouths of american adversaries and said, no, this is bluffing, sometimes our adversaries mean what they say. if they in building -- in building a national security -- i think we should take them out there word. that is the safest way. host: eric is in new jersey. republican. caller: i agree with your guest. the only thing is, in reality, aren't we looking at a situation where the world's going to have to get used to a distasteful iran, ultimately having a nuclear weapon just like we have with north korea? although biden has looked at the world camera and has sworn up and down iran would never get a nuclear weapon, aren't we just about there? even though there has been exercises with israel and the

united states armed forces in what could only be described as a possible prelude to an attack on iran's nuclear capabilities, do you think biden would pull the trigger? guest: would biden pull the trigger? right now, the u.s. is handcuffing some of its most important, manic and economic -- diplomatic and economic tools. there is something baked into the nuclear deal, it might be one of the things i admire called snapback. it creatively reverse engineers the veto mechanism in the you in security council. traditionally in the un security council, one of the permanent sides, russia, china, the european powers, can veto a resolution. this nuclear deal has no legal standing side of the you in -- u n security council. snapback works by up until the year 2025 based on a nuclear

violation, anyone who is a party to the nuclear deal can dispute that -- escalate it to the security council and restore by collapsing the architecture of the jcpoa, restore the previous, multilateral penalties that existed on the military programs prior to 2013. these include the permanent ballistic missile testing prohibition. thanks to the deal, it's going to lapse in october 2023. these included a permanent arms transfer prohibition. thanks to the deal, lapsed in 2020. i remember talking to the europeans in 2020 about the need to extend this, either multilaterally or unilaterally. many of them laughed at the former administrations attempt to laterally extend this arms

margo. i think it is high time we take this conflict seriously. i do not think the military solution right now is what is warranted. at the same time, i think our politicized bait about the military solution is noticed by our adversaries and what is behind their increased risk-taking. you are right to note iran is basically on the precipice, 84% is a hop, skip and a jump from 90%. with a quantity of uranium stockpiles they have in total, it is four to five bombs worth. host: let's talk to patty. reidsville, wisconsin. independent line. caller: thank you for the information. i have a grandson graduating from college in june. he has enlisted in the air force. as his grandmother, i am fearful

for my grandson and all young people. do we belong in the middle east after 9/11? my understanding is that most of the terrorists were saudi citizens and trained in iraq or iran. shouldn't we be minding more of our own business? i do not believe in isolation, but what will we accomplish? guest: it is an important debate. congratulations to your grandson on the graduation and enlistment. it is an important debate washington is having now, between the boundaries of isolation, internationalism, what sustainable force posture does the united states have to have in the east. i agree, we do not need quantities of forces that we saw in 2005, 2000 seven permanently stationed in the middle east forever. there were period's of time when the u.s. had two carriers in the persian gulf, that was still insufficient to deter iranian

naval escalation. it is important we have a conversation about what the sustainable presence in iran looks like. any vacuum is going to be exploited by the regime. any withdrawal is going to force us for the five years later or 10 years later to fight our way in twice as hard. that is why i think that is an unfortunate scenario for those enlisted would be required to end up serving, whereas conflict actually seemed draws us back into a region where strategic reasons politically lasted five or six years ago for political and on policy reasons. host: let's talk about israel. is it possible the is really the military could take action against iran -- is really -- isr aeli military could take action against iran? guest: i do think it is possible . whether it was prime minister

netanyahu who is back, or anyone else. i believe the israelis mean it when they say they do not want the iranian republic to have the weapon could what is the trigger for action? some of that makes it a much harder question to answer. is the nature of iran's nuclear advances, as well as the conventional deterrent capabilities in terms of proxies, the missiles, the drones they have and what risk tolerance israelis may have for a one off strike, versus campaigns. these are technical, political and strategic questions. the answer will lie in jerusalem. this is -- in terms of the success of the mission, whether short or long-term, it would be better to have the u.s. acting in concert with its partner region, not in conflict. increasingly, you have seen them

try to dry wedges between -- and europeans and american, this is an iranian diplomatic strategy to prevent a coalition from forming. host: coming up at 10:00 a.m. after this program on c-span, a closer look at the military's health insurance program known as tricare. defense department officials will address several issues including rising costs and the lack of providers before a senate appropriations subcommittee. that briefing is live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. you can watch on our free, mobile video app, c-span now or online at c-span.org. let's talk to douglas in minnesota. republican. caller: you are mistaken. i thought i called on the democratic line. anyway. i would like to talk about a couple of things. one, the phrase the guest used, deterioration of american led rules based liberal world order.

i hope i am quoting that phra rightse. can you talk about that in relation to the concept of american exceptionalism and maybe rank it compared to something like climate change? another thing. i have been in iran about three years ago for about two weeks with eight other americans from minnesota. it was a fantastic trip for me. when we were traveling one time, on the highway, we notice the facility, massive, surrounded by what looked like miles of fence, chain-link topped by barbed wire. it was in the distance, smokestacks. we thought, what is this place?

when we got to the sign identifying it, it did not say any company name. it was like, white lettering on a brown background like we might have in this country for a government facility. the words on it were, electrochemical plant. host: ok, douglas. let's guest: a response. guest:the caller mentioned a couple of things. one, i would love to hear about the nature of your trip. i think any resilience you may see in the iranian people or magnanimous things you may visit from culture, history, music you see in iran today is in despite of these policies from the islamic republic. as great as it would be to visit iran, we understand it would be a one-way ticket for many people, including many americans. i would caution you from going again, though i understand fully the richness, history and

culture that country has. number two, philosophical debate between the u.s. world left world order, rules-based order, is basically shorthand for the post-world war ii, post-1940's world order, u.s. enshrined. it is enshrined through american exceptionalism if you believe in the privacy of american military power in having those rules enforced by the u.s. you had it contested for a while during the cold war, uncontested during the 1990's and moving toward contested today. there are several theories of american exceptionalism, one is it is best to work through an order that you can backstop with military capabilities. the last one about petrochemicals, i could have sworn the caller was going to say it was a nuclear facility. it is important we discuss petrochemicals. while we are talking about oil and oil sales being used to fund

the regimes, the islamic republic is a petrochemical powerhouse. during the peak period of trump era sanctions, the regime was exporting petrochemicals into u.s. charters into the region. now, petrochemicals sell for higher rates than oil. if this regime is engaging in the smuggling business as we know it is, it is generating interest in smuggling petrochemicals over crude oil or petroleum because of the high return on investment given the cost of these things. it has established a robust, not just refining capacity but petrochemical industry as a major source of revenue for the regime and cracking down on this is one way to change the regimes capless. there were recent judgments against the petrochemical smuggling ring, to see more of this action, not less than biden in washington. host: samuel is next, washington.

independent line. good morning. caller: i was wondering if your guest could inquire about the geopolitical but the theological leaders in islam and speak about the 12 imani in koran if they can -- on his return by creating chaos. guest: you bring up an important point. even within the world of traditional, she is the mainstream political culture in shiite islam, a minority sect about 10% to 12% of the world's muslims are shiite. the 12 them on, shiites believe is hidden and will return in some sort of end of day scenario. with christ, we have a religious theme on this show today -- it was decided to bring about a new world or justice. traditional, culture in shiism

is what you would call quietest, what you see the seminaries and theological centers in our rock particularly the holy city where there is a -- of politics. it requires lying in compromise and tampers with the truth as it were. this is what you have seen a diversion to. it doesn't mean the past 500 years of iran where you had a shiite establishment trying to ultimately overthrow the monarchial system, it doesn't mean shiism has not had a political role. what happened with the advent of the islamic we public and the founding father of the islamic republic? he turned that quietest school inherently revolutionary, tapped into a strain of thinking of marxist, internationalist and fused it with this veneer of political islam. some of it is about creating chaos. there is a particular school of thought, not the dominant school

of thought, about hastening the arrival of the 12 them on. it used to be part of the doctrine of former -- the former president. it is imperative to understand the system of iran today because the guardianship of the jurisprudence, which has a plato style, islamist loss of her at the helm of an authoritarian system. with the helm of the islamic republic, is an operation to traditional political thought in shiism, which fears much toward quite a sum, the things you see coming out of iraq, rather than iran. host: sal is in new jersey, republican line. caller: i would like to ask dr. taleblu, what can the united states and the west do to overthrow the government of iran? the next part of the question is, if and when we do overthrow

the government of iran, what kind of government, what kind of country will iran be? guest: let me clarify for the record. i do not have a phd. i only have ama. thank you for the honorary doctorate on air. when it comes to overthrowing, i do not think we should be in the business of overthrowing governments around the world. we should be in the business of standing with people who support our values, in particular, in jurisdictions where they are of strategic interest to us. there can be no greater moral cabin between the state of iran today and the society of iran today. the state is basically islamist and authoritarian and society is nationalist and secular. we have these two things like oil and water which fundamentally duma -- do not mix. we need not entertain old school

conversations about overthrowing regimes. simply need to stand with the iranian people and their struggle. that has not just moral and political diffidence, it will have policy and strategic dividends down the line. since 2009, not lebanon, not my life, iran, that means if you get a government in iran in line with the views and values and wishes of the iranian people, you would have a fundamentally different kind of foreign and security policy in iran, not one about exporting the revolution, but one when you hear the slogan , forget assad, think about us, is about iran first, iran, come home. pulling becky's architecture, proxy network sent threat that have made the middle east this instable, chaos led region where the islamic republic has been bashing nearly armed -- nearly every armed group for four plus decades. the u.s. needs to adopt a policy of mexican -- maximum pressure

and care for the iranian people. together, coupled with tough sanctions and military deterrence in the region, you can put the regime in a scenario and do well by your head and heart. which is something hard to do in the middle east. host: that will be the last word. benham ben taleblu is the senior fellow for the foundation for the defense of democracies. thank you. we are wrapping up today's "washito journal" with more of your calls on open forum. you can start calling you now. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered

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or wherever you get your podcast picked --podcasts. ♪ >> c-span has unfiltered coverage of the u.s. response to russia's invasion of ukraine, bringing you the latest from the president and other white house officials, the pentagon and the state department as well as congress. we have international perspectives from the united nations and statement's from foreign leaders. all on the c-span networks. the c-span now free mobile app and c-span.org/ukraine, our web resorts --resource page. go to c-span.org/ukraine. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. it is open for them. i am going to be taking your calls until the end of the program at 10:00 eastern. i want to start with this article in the new york times. it says gaps in roles that

railroads define safety. the crash in east palestine, ohio has highlighted a gap in federal safety regulations that has left the railroad industry to set its own standards for the use of sensors that can warn train crews about impending derailments. at north folks southern train travel toward east palestine on february 3, it passed a series of detectors along the track is to keep and pick up overheated wheel bearings. a major cause of derailments. the temperature of a bearing on the trains 23rd car rose before the train reached the town. then, there was not another heat attacked her for almost 20 miles. by which time the temperature had soared to critical levels. setting off an alarm as the crew engaged the brakes, bearing broke and the car and 37 others derailed, spilling cargo of toxic chemicals and prompting

officials to authorize a controlled burn of hazardous substances. yesterday during a discussion with the washington post, the national transportation safety board chair addressed the latest on the ohio toxic chemical trail derailment in east palestine. [video clip] >> any sense of when the investigation might wrap up and you might make those final recommendations? a year from now, can you give anybody a guideline? >> i am hoping within a year. we typically say 12 to 18 months. here's what i will say. at no time are we prohibited trade we are not prohibited from issuing urgency -- urgent safety recommendations. we do and are considering in this case issuing argent safety recommendations. what that means is, we do not wait until the end. if we see something urgent, we will issue a safety recommendation right away.

so that action can be taken, not just by norfolk southern, but the entire railroad industry, training, we will see what that is. that is something we are looking at. we are also looking at -- we are going to hold an investigative hearing in east palestine. >> has a been set for that yet? >> this weekend, we have a few people going to east palestine to look for a venue that could accommodate that. i think one possibility is the high school where other town halls have occurred. we want to make sure locals can come to our investigative hearing. we do it at a time that is convenient for them. we have driven down the number of derailments over the last several decades. we can see more improvement. we can always improve rail safety. really, safety in any mode of transportation. the accidents we investigate are

always preventable. we know that action can be taken so these types of occurrences do not happen again and more communities have to face such a tragedy. host: it is open forum. i am taking your calls. i want to show you one more article from writers with the headline, china says u.s. should change attitude or risk conflict. it says the united states should change its " distorted attitude" or conflict will follow. china's foreign minister said while defending its stance on the war in ukraine and defending its close ties with russia, the u.s. had been engaging in suppression and containment of china rather than engaging in fair, rule-based competition according to the foreign minister. he told a news conference on the sidelines of an annual parliament meeting in beijing.

i am interested to hear what you think. andrew is first in baltimore, maryland. democrats line. good morning. caller: with regards to the tragedy in east palestine, i want to say thank you to david sirotas forgetting the investigative journalism off, hitting the ground running so we can realize what corporate greed begets. more importantly, i wanted to talk about the senate banking hearing coming up with jerome powell. the thing a lot people forget is, the fed has not only interest rate adjustments, but they also have their asset buying program. mortgage-backed security, a lot of people do not realize they ought over $1 trillion worth of mortgages. that totally distorted the housing market.

now, they are slowly but surely allowing them to trickle off. that more or less inflated this housing market that is now going to whipsaw right back down. i would love it if the senate inking committee asked him, one, why he felt the need to buy more than 2008 tarp mortgage-backed security purchases for covid? two, why is still sitting on billions and billions of mortgage-backed security hopefully, you are about that. host: if we do, you definitely want to take a look. that is coming up in 20 minutes over on c-span3. jerome powell, the federal reserve chair will be appearing before the senate banking committee and urban affairs committee. we will have coverage on c-span3 and on our website, c-span.org.

stephen is next in indiana, republican line. caller: hi. i wanted to talk about this fentanyl crisis we have in the united states. i have lost three family members. it is devastating. to thousands of families in the united states. it seems like this border is getting worse down there. it is not going to be much longer that they come over the border and start kidnapping people, holding them hostage. they are doing it right on the border in mexico. it is just a matter of time. if we do not get this under control, our country is going to be in bad shape. it does not make sense why the biden administration does not

put this as a number one issue as far as security in the united states. we do not have no security right now in the united states. it does not make a whole lot of sense. the crime, no wonder the crime is the way it is when our administrations, all of them, are in so much crime right now with the laptop and the 150 transactions that are presidents has made. they will not address it. the lawlessness in the united states. people around here where i am at, they run around here with -- host: looks like we lost him. richard in fort myers,

republican. caller: good morning. thank you so much for c-span. i wish i had gotten on with her previous guest. there was an issue only he could have answered. he seemed like a knowledgeable person. i believe it was in the two thousand eight election. if any politician said that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction, he was considered a fruitcake. however, if any of your guests want to look at -- they did find but kept secret somewhere around 500 or 1000 metric tons of yellowcake plutonium -- uranium, rather. that was kept out of the news. it was not considered a big thing. if somebody said, saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction, they were thought of poorly. the truth is, we found it and kept it under wraps and shipped it to canada. all this stuff is therefore

people to find. it was considered -- i think the regular media, they did a poor job of following up on what was a serious issue. thank you very much. host: air is is -- aaron is in las vegas, nevada. independent line. you are on the air, karen. caller: people need to look up the world health order pandemic treaty, the draft they worked on the middle of the last month. the world health. can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: yeah. it is imperative they look and see what we are getting into with that. china runs the world health organization. they are trying to get us into

socialism. to that avenue, with a lot of other things. i implore people to look up that pandemic treaty they are working on. host: all right, karen. i will remind people we are in open form the next 15 minutes until the end of the program. if you would like to give us a call and weigh in on anything politics or public affairs, you can do that. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. michael is next in shermans dale, pennsylvania. republican. caller: hello, dear. i have a comment about the railroads. what scares me about the railroad is, if you go along the railroad tracks, sit down and listen to the train go by, you

can literally hear the wheels on these things. it sounds like they are square. there is no way they can't find these cars that are out of whack? if tractor-trailers have to be inspected every six months, why is there not some kind of inspection done on these railroad carts? what scares me is, you hear the wheels going by, there is a tanker behind it. they are telling the tanker behind this thing. if that when derailed, it is a wreck on top of a wreck. host: all right. anna is in texas on the line for democrats. caller: good morning. how are you, mimi? i wanted to say to -- in indiana about the border, i am 74 years old. we have been working on that order before my grandfather,

before my mom. think about it. i am 74 years old. that order is not the problem in texas. greg abbott just put in a border guard, which means nothing. we have more military along the border than anyone. i worked on the border coming up and down for over 10 years. my daughter also worked for a company that goes up and down the border. we have one million people who are now in mexico who get their visa and once every six months comeback who are building homes in mexico. the people who came into matamoros, matamoros has been a problem for years. they have voice warned you about -- have always warned you about

going into matamoros, mexico. for these people who talk about the border, you do not know anything about the border. the military along that border, you try going out across. they will kill you. you run up and down on the highway, speeding. the helicopter will track you down and the highway patrol will stop you. you are lying on the border. host: all right, anna. take a look at this article from npr.org. fox news stands in legal peril. it says defamation lawsuit would harm all media, outside legal observers say the fox news channel finds itself in real legal jeopardy in a 1.6 billion dollars defamation lawsuit brought by an election tech company overlies broadcast about the 2020 presidential race the amount and weight of evidence is perhaps without equal among

other recent major defamation cases. "how often do you get smoking gun emails that show the person is responsible for the editorial content, new the accusation was false and convincing emails that show the recent fox reported this was for its own mercenary interest?" says a rutgers university law professor on authority and constitutional law. fox has endorsed one humiliation from another from the rolling revelations in the case brought by dominion voting systems, private communications made public in legal filings demonstrate the networks producers, stars and executives even controlling owner rupert murdoch used the claims they were broadcasting work false and at times unhinged. a trial in the case is slated for next month. let's talk to karen next in north dakota, republican. caller: good morning.

i've got lots of things to say. one thing i love is history. i have noticed more and more people are picking up this reparations idea for african-american descendants of people who were brought here against their will. however, they were never slaves. their grandparents and great-grandparents were the slaves. they were given the opportunity starting in the 1800s, a group of individuals calling themselves friends of something --they raised money, they purchased a piece of land in africa, which is now called liberia. they made that land available to

those who came from the south as they got away. they were free after the war -- the 15th amendment freed them all. they came up north, were given the opportunity to take a ship back to africa. they were given the opportunity to form their own government based upon what they had seen and learned and were not going to have to deal with worrying african tribes. that was made available to them. some took it, some did not. host: let's talk to patty next in mount carmel, illinois. independent line. caller: yes. my question is, why are we allowing felons to be placed in

houses next door to children? to me, that seems like it is an endangerment. host: what do you mean by that? what are you seeing over there in mount carmel? caller: there is a felon getting released and being put your to my grandchildren -- put next door to my grandchildren. if he is a felon and has had these charges, why is he put next door to children? host: let's go to detroit, michigan. democrats line. caller: yes. hello, good morning. host: good morning. caller: they always talk about this fentanyl coming from the border. most of that drug do not come from the border. you've got fedex. ups. they ship those drugs through those kind of organizations.

what you have to do is check some of this, secure some of that stuff and have a law so they can check on the drugs that ship through they organization. that is the only way they are going to curb the drugs coming in. if a person is on drugs, you know he is on drugs. you know his mood changes, attitude change, everything. try to get him some help. do not use a scapegoat to try and put it on the border. it is up to the individual people themselves. thank you. goodbye. host: greg is in lincoln park, michigan. independent. caller: good morning. as far as dominion lawsuits going on, i think we should get rid of dominion altogether and

go with paper ballots like trump said. everything will be hunky-dory. as far as -- goes, we should shut it down. it is a mess. it has killed over 200,000 people. it is ridiculous he lets that go on and on. 9/11. 2000 people. we did something about that. we ain't doing anything about the fentanyl problem. it is like he has no comprehension how these people are dying. they know it is not right. they are still letting it happen. open border policy, never, never, never. this is ridiculous. host: all right, greg. here is an article from the hill.com. its headline, zelenskyy pledges to find the murderers of ukrainian soldier executed in grizzly video. ukrainian president zelenskyy on

monday vowed to find those responsible for the death of a ukrainian soldier who was seen executed in a brutal video posted online. zelenskyy's response came after a video circulated showing a ukrainian soldier being shot to death by russians right after seeing -- singing glory to ukraine on the battlefield, according to multiple reports. o'neill is next in brooklyn, new york. independent. caller: hello, good morning. host: good morning. caller: i want to comment on the fact that one in three people in the u.s. will develop dementia. to third being female, of which the african female girl is the highest risk. i heard a caller spoke of the 15th amendment ending slavery, which is incorrect. our u.s. constitution has amendment 13, neither slavery

nor involuntary servitude except as punishment for crime -- shall be evicted in the united states and jurisdiction. amendment 13 occupies -- [indiscernible] it connects slavery as a c rime. slavery technically in the constitution of the united states -- i think civic, which [indiscernible] educate the caller only amendment that in six slavery --amendment that ends slavery. host: joe, democrat line. caller: i am calling about the border. everybody know that drugs do not come all the way to the border. they got millions of ways to get

-- i want to say that god, for it to be a christian country, if you believe in god, god doesn't know any borders. these people have it part-time, they have rvs, militias, they have got to get their children out of there. they put their daughters and brothels, their sons in -- [indiscernible] if a doorway was right next to america and they wanted to come in welcome arms, you know what i am talking about. thank you. host: nick in rochester. independent line. caller: i want to let people know there is no problem at the border. we are just waiting for the check from mexico. that will solve the problems. next thing, conservatives think people are big on the theory

people should pull themselves up by the bootstraps, so do not take fentanyl. myself nor any of my children take fentanyl. i the way, -- by the way, florida every person working on a roof or gardening was from mexico. i guess we do not need them. host: hector in florida. democrat. caller: i do not understand why there is thousands of ukrainian men and even women of fighting age hiding out in the u.s. and other countries. why aren't they in the ukraine fighting alongside their brothers? wire week sitting -- to them when they are cowards and do not want to fight their own war? we have ukrainians fighting, but the majority of them are from the u.s. we are giving them welfare. they should be forced to stay in the ukraine and fight for their country like any patrons would be forced to do.

why do we continue to give billions of dollars to israel to massacre palestinian women and children? host: all right, hector. that will be the last word for today's washington journal. thanks to everybody that called in and watched. this morning, we take a closer look at the militaries health insurance program known as tricare. defense department officials will address several issues including rising costs and the lack of providers before a senate appropriations subcommittee. that is starting now, live on c-span. you can follow it on our free mobile video app, c-span now or online at c-span.org. it is starting now. everybody, have a great day.