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been working on student debt cancellation for over a decade. there were those people as well as season organizers. over 2.5 million in student debt was in france's supreme court demanding on making sure their voices were heard and recognizing we know that student debt cancellation is legal and we been working toward it in the stories that impact our lives and what's necessary to ensure we finish this. it's important we understand that it's not done until it's done. this discussion has been happening host: several headlines reflecting the fact that many justices were skeptical about the plan itself. what do you think about the skepticism and what does it mean

for the biden administration should not be allowed to go forward? guest: i think skepticism is unwarranted. people have been burdened by student debt for far too long. the naacp just celebrated its 114th birthday last month and we have members from multi-generation to still carry the burden of student debt. folks who educated, folks who have contributed to our society in impactful ways still are burdened with student debt. people have an opportunity to become homeowners and business owners and have an opportunity to generate wealth so we have to shift how we think about student dealt -- debt. this is an opportunity to have a path forward out of this pandemic to build a strong economy. host: when it come to the present plan, it will be 20,002 pell grant recipients, most are

low income borrowers and 10,000 for non-pell grant loans with those making under 120,000 year and put cap a monthly payments at 5% of monthly income. what you think about those specifics? guest: in the conversation with the biden administration as well as senior advisers, i applaud the racial equity lends when it comes to that decision, recognizing there is a difference when it comes to student debt. this impacts the black community in a different way. the actual black borrower hold on average $53,000 in debt and we were pushing the president to cancel a minimum of $50,000 or more. we would like to see all student debt cancel but this is the first step in a long conversation about our value and cost of higher education. how do we ensure that young

people going into higher education have the opportunity to see a bright future? the financial barriers should not be impacting young people's decisions to pursue higher education. i am a millennial and many feel defined by their student debt. we know 35% of millennials have reported they have delayed their plans to become owners because of the student debt. this is an opportunity to give those who are most in need the most support necessary. it's an equity lens, ensuring we have true justice when it comes to this plan. host: the brookings ititution tells us back in 20 after earning a bachelors, black students owed more than their white peers. why is that happening in your opinion? guest: it's happening because

the interest that is occurring when the loan is taking out. when we think about the workforce, there still racial discrimination that happens when it comes to hiring. people can graduate from university with the same degree and same skills and because they are black, not receive that job area black workers are twice as likely to be unemployed than white workers and until we recognize there is still discrepancies, let's not get started on the folks who start college and still have the student debt and can't finish. there are many barriers for black folks to enter into our economic system, eliminating student date debt -- debt is one way to address this. host: if you want to ask him questions about student debt relief in the plan for it -- here are the numbers.

if you have student debt and want to put your own perspective into this discussion, this is the number. you can use that same number to text us. i want to play you a little from chief justice roberts when it comes to the present plan and some of the russians he has about his approach. is is a sound bites a let' get your reaction. [video clip] >> it's appropriate to consider some fairness arguments. you have two situations were to get him out of hiool and can afford to go to college and one takes alone in the other says i will try my hand at setting up a lawn care service. he takes out a bank loan for that. at the end of four years, we know statistically that the person with a college degree is going to do significantly financially better over the course o life than the person

without. along comes theovernment and the vement says you don't have to pay your loan. no one is telling the rs trying to set up a lawn service business he doesn't haveo y is loan. he still does even though his tax dollars are going to support the forgiveness of a loan for the e graduate who wl not make a lot more than him over the course of his lifetime. itee to me maye views on fairness of that and they don't count and i may have views on that and mine don't count. we usually like to leave situations of that sort you talk about spending the government' money which is the taxpayers money to the people in charge of the money which is congress. host: that was some of the arguments including the chief justice of what did you think of the comparison? guest: when we put that duality, we fill to address the different challenges and barriers that many young people have, even getting into college. it's important for us to

recognize the shifting of the mindset of student cancellation and an opportunity for folks to pour my money in our economy instead of having to pay back your student debt. you can become a home -- a homeowner or business owner so it's important for us to think about this as an opportunity. folks may say that student debt cancellation is unfair. when you think about it, canceling all student debt is what we need to happen. we need to make sure we give people the opportunity to see relief now. there is still the impact of this covid-19 pandemic which has exacerbated many issues within her situation at large. this is to give the dish to give people the eight necessary to continue on and support their families and they had debts and that they have an equitable future in america today. wisdom call serves the national

director of the college division of the naacp. our first call is from oregon from eugene, democrats line, go ahead with your question. caller: thank you, good morning, mr. cole. i have been following this and yesterday, because we've got a right-leaning supreme court, it didn't look that good. i was reading different articles and i read about the lawyer that is arguing for the biden administration. also the solicitor general. do you know anything about her

as the solicitor general? she might have swayed a couple of the justices to pay attention. one issue she brought up was standing and i will take your answer off line and i love your first name. host: thanks for the call. guest: thank you so much. she knows that education is right and there are borrowers outside of supreme court supporting that fight because we want to recognize its necessary to make this happen in this moment. when we think about the fight for student debt cancellation, president biden ran on the fact that student cancellation was on the table. we want to ensure especially for young voters showing when our politicians make promises, that there is implementation to back that up. no more coming into our

communities a couple of weeks before the election and making policies. what's happening in the supreme court showing that the policy and plan moves forward. at the end of the day, it's not done until it done and student debt is relieved. host: republican line next, go ahead. guest: i have two comments were questions. caller: it's always in the details. part of the problem is the cart wants discussion that goes on concerning debt relief. there are many reasons why people don't take that back, much is the fact that it's wrong to begin with. what about all of the endowments that the universities have? harvard has over $50 billion in endowments available to them. the payments for the grant go to those colleges and go to those universities and that's where the money initially went.

if you added up all of the endowments for all of the universities in this country, it would be in the trillions of dollars, yet it's expected the taxpayers will pick up the bill on the forgiveness of the loans. the details of how people spend their money to begin with. are they driving mercedes? they are also paying off a student loan debt? when it comes down to the details of who ends up getting their debt forgiven. that's what has to be worked out in any plan that goes forward, not just a cart launch -- a cart blanch forgiveness of debt. host: thank you. guest: i think you are getting at the root cause of this issue which is the cost of college edgy occasion over the course of

the last four years, recognizing it has grown exorbitantly in the cost has kept people from the opportunity to see a true higher education. when we think about the students going into universities, many who are taking the loans are also working jobs. when i started college, i had to take loans and day when i started on campus. i made sure i was able to make my payment and pay for school but having to take over -- take out those loans and support myself. i live in a quad with four other people. many students are living in the same conditions and many students are going homeless or without food. there are all these barriers that prevent them from focuses -- focusing on the purpose of being in kate -- being in college.

people are using it for transportation necessary to get to and from school. we need to think about this as an opportunity and make sure this is an opportunity to change the game but also have a deeper discussion about how we value the cost of higher education. despite student debt cancellation, it should lead to the fight for free college and we are seeing the discussion across america will people discuss free two-year community college and ensuring people have access. host: our guest is a bachelors in chemistry. did you take debts for those and are you still paying them off? guest: you know it, i have $30,000 from student debt. i recognize i still have the debt and i'm still paying it down but i want to see this happen now. host: what are you paying for

interest rates? guest: when it comes to the interest rates, for the black community, they continue to hold us back. when we think about interest rates on loans, you look 10 years out in black folks still have two pay double the amount as their white peers. i've been paying down my loan since i graduated in 2016. that's almost eight years now. i'm still at the same amount i had when i started. host: seattle, washington, democrats line area good morning. guest: good morning. thank you for c-span. mr. cole, i'm kind of surprised that such a young man like you would be speaking for the naacp but you bring a lot of

legitimate points. our president has said he supports many of the causes of the naacp e. do you feel because a man is black, that makes them qualified? host: i'm going to leave it there. let's go to crystal river, florida, independent line area caller: good morning, a little bit confused when you talk about policy that biden put in but not constitutionality. even democrat nancy pelosi mentioned this wasn't unconstitutional that -- bet. forgive me for saying this but isn't it a little self-serving that you want this loan reduction and that you have

loans? i paid my way through college and never took a dime from anybody. two jobs, while in college. i hate to see everybody in this country be come like a tin cup society holding out their hand. people have issues. i've worked all my life from the 60's and fought all my life. host: thank you, caller. guest: the president does have the power to cancel student debt. there are multiple amide -- avenues we have discussed and is well within his rights to discuss with the department of education to cancel student debt. when you talk about unfairness or the fact that folks have paid back there bills, we have to recognize that every time we want to do a public good or put something in place that serves

the people. when we can bail out the copper -- corporations or divide $9 trillion to bail out exxon mobile in the middle of a pandemic but we can't give $20,000 in loan cancellations for borrowers who took it out in 1988 and are still paying it out? at what time does it end? we have to recognize that the way in which student loans are dispersed, it's disproportionate. black borrowers are taking out more loans than others. they are consistently having to pay back more than others. when you talk about unfairness, that sounds unfair to me. it's about ensuring the people have the opportunity to pursue the american dream were to enter into this economic system. we need to do everything within our power to ensure that happens. host: the editors of the washington post write about the law that mr. biden used to approaches plan.

they say mr. biden's debt forgiveness scheme is far more expensive than the two deck -- the two decade old law. could the president have used a that are approaching this plan of his? guest: we didn't know we would be in a pandemic for almost three years so recognizing there are so many people who have been impacted by covid-19 and often times, those most impacted come from poor households. we have to recognize student debt cancellation is progressive and not regressive. it's to address this moment in time. folks are still facing economic

barriers and recovering and still struggling to have jobs. young people have had to be in school and still pay coition and do it virtually. it might be a plus or negative depending on your learning style. we have to recognize there are so many more amazing things we can do when we provide this relief and cancel student debt. it would give people the opportunity to apply the system and the president is using everything in his power to make sure this happens. we are faced with so many key issues in america to day thinking about the young people i serve. people are facing issues of gun violence in our history is being taken away from us. the cost of college continues to increase. in this moment in time, we need policy that will give us hope. we need policy that will allow us to participate in the future.

we need policy that will ensure that we are able to be here not just for a moment but for a lifetime. in this moment in time, we need to make sure we are putting all hands on deck in this moment to ensure this gets done. host: in connecticut, steve on the republican line. guest: i am a father of two millennials such as yourself, one is 36 a nurse practitioner, debt-free and she makes it a bit of money like yourself and my son who is a communication master degree, both are debt-free free, paid their own death. i paid my own debt and anything you choose in your education is what you are looking at on dollar amounts you may have to pay back. the problem is that you chose the education you have chosen that is very expensive. i'm not sure you are utilizing what you're going to school for, it doesn't look like you are.

i think what should be happening is that you keep bringing up the black race. let's make everybody go into the trades, electricians which make up to $250,000 per year. plumbers, all those things are depleted in our country at the moment and that's where we should focus, not giving away entitlement money for your education. that's a problem right now. when you give free money, it will raise the price of education. that's not what we should be focusing on. guest: when you talk about this choice and you talk about the idea that people made the choice to become borrowers, people made the choice to take those loans what was told us was that if you go to school and get a higher education degree, you can get a

good paying job and buy a house and support your family and you can do the things necessary to operate in this society but that was not what happened area folks go to school and graduate and folks don't graduate and still bear the burden and are not able to get the job necessary. when you exclude the racial equity lens, we understand were different communities come from and the struggles they face, young people who are in these college spaces have to send money back home to support their families. when they graduate from college, instead of getting support from their family to buy a home at the start of business, they have to continue to support their family. where as our white peers will be supported by their families to do those things. that is not equitable and is not fair and it's not an opportunity that gives everyone a true justice in this country. we have to recognize that we

want to create a future where everybody has the opportunity to participate. to say we care about racial equity and say we care about social justice, if we say we want a society where everyone has the opportunity to achieve their dreams -- you talked about trade school and they are a phenomenal and fine opportunity but if you want to be a chemist or a doctor or a lawyer or journalist, or activist or organizer like myself, you should have the opportunity to do so in the financial barriers presented in college should not prevent you from doing that. host: have you or the naacp talked about the cost of higher education and why it's so expensive? guest: the naacp has been on the forefront of ensuring that young people have more access to pell grant and we can discuss a better relationship between

federal and state dollars and even understanding the way in which loans are dispersed and thinking about first dollar loans. it's important we re-examine those systems and we have to do that can currently. it's important that as we fight for two student debt cancellation, that we rethink our value in the structure of higher education, the way in which young people are receiving these loans and the weight loans are being explained to people. folks just exiting high school and entering college, we need to understand what is happening. host: let's hear from greg in texas, democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning, i see you are young in age and if you can, want you to step back and see exactly what's going on in the naacp. you got to look back when ronald reagan was in office and bush was in office, the young people

get out of college looking for jobs and they say you are too educated. all the educated people went overseas to get jobs. the trade schools being taught in this country, the main thing is for people who have jobs and hispanic people have an education and air conditioning. they are educating their people in these trade schools. our young like people are running around thinking everyone is your friend and they are sitting around smoking weed on the job and getting set up. then they take a urine test and lose their jobs. host: what would you like to ask your guest? guest: caller: when the student loans were handed out and student loans are high because we start getting an education. they have to make their money because they want to get paid for educating us of the student loans got high because we

started to college. guest: i find it very interesting that the time like folks are integrating into institutions, the cost of college started to increase. barriers started putting -- charting to be put into place not helping the people who wanted the education or these degrees to ensure they have a better future. the cost started to increase it was important that we recognize the trend000 going. we need to give people the opportunity to see a better future. you test upon the mental health implications of student debt. generations have been defined by student debt for so long so we need to make sure we are eliminating that mental and emotional trauma. we have gen z'ers interested in

pursuing higher education but they look at previous generations and they say this is not for me. we need to get people ample opportunity to enter into these systems of education to better our futures and to help us think about the path forward. we want more diverse mines in these institutions of higher institutions because we have a plethora of problems that need our diverse skill sets to solve moving forward. host: there is a story in the wall street journal as to the pauses in place already for student debt. what happens amongst those once those happened? guest: it's going to be devastating. it's a travesty if these loans get turned back on. it's not going to be ready for that in this moment in time. it's important we recognize

there are multiple plans being put into place to support borrowers paying back their loans and we have to recognize that and have ease of access to do so. until we see this plan put into effect, nobody should be having to pay to pay the student loan back. it's not done until it's done, we have to finish the job. we need to finish this and evaluating systems of higher education and ensure the plan is put into place. host: this is from twitter -- guest: you are exactly right. we need to cancel student debt but we also need to continue to fight for free college. we need to ensure that people have access the financial barriers should not be put into place. if we believe that education is a right for every american, everyone should have access to higher education. host: from connecticut,

independent line. caller: good morning. you somewhat answered one of my questions about where does the college responsibility lie. it seems the younger kids are doing online courses so doesn't that reduce their overhead? my other question is, is there something in the plan that says they have to use this tour there debt and maybe not something else, a.k.a. a vacation. guest: in this plan, it would directly go to eliminating that student debt so that would be a real cancellation of that. when we think about the emerging world we are in where we are vastly moving into a hybrid reality where we have all people having the option to engage.

the cost of these courses continue to remain whether they are in person or online. the only thing that switches is the difference of paying for housing. people have different learning styles. some of my fondest memories from college were being in the classroom and having a conversation, talking with my peers and professors and building cultural knowledge and recognizing and building that black genius and wondering -- and realizing who i was in college. i hope and wish for every young person to have the opportunity to go to college and having a transformational experience to understand themselves and the world and become changemakers. host: a similar sentiment was expressed in this text --

is there responsibility for the majors they pick and they could give them the support later on to pay back the loans? guest: not at all, college should be the opportunity to explore who you are and learn how to think and critically think. it's a dialogue to come up with the most radical ideas ever. young people consistently are discussing different ways which they can change our future and ways they can start businesses and create new and exciting opportunities for the future. regardless of your major, there are so many different opportunities. i was a chemistry major and now may -- i am a civil-rights leader and that made me think.

i intended to become a doctor. i recognize there were much bigger things for myself and my future and my community and that's why i became a national organizer with the naacp. we want to make sure that people have the opportunity to explore the issues they are most passionate about we need the most radical and progressive ideas to move forward in society. over the last couple of years, we have been faced with so many different tragedies. we need new solutions. we need people who can correct those solutions and that happens in that environment. host: let's hear from barbara in michigan, republican line. hello? caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: hi, i'm calling because it seems there is an accommodation for everything, the mental -- if you grow up in the world, you will accumulate debt.

one way or another. it has to be paid off. i'm am not in agreement with that. the dream that everybody should achieve what they want, that is true. it's an opportunity but sometimes you have to wait for those dreams. i went to school and i paid for my education. i still have to go home and find money and send money to my family after i graduated. everybody has a right to it, to the college education but you still have to pay for it. medical expenses are being covered and people are still entitled to get food stamps and are able to use this money for anything, vacations, cars, housing. go to florida and look at spring

vacation. host: we will leave it there, thank you. guest: how long must we wait? young people have been waiting for decades for this to change. the cost of college has continued to rise and folks have been advocating and talking and discussing with their elected officials and were sick and tired of gang sick and tired. this is an opportunity that has been building for quite some time. it didn't happen overnight, this has been a movement and generations of organizers continuing to advocate for this moment in time. i don't think folks need to wait any longer. we just need to follow through on the promises. this was a promise that the president ran on an election officials have spoken on. 10 years ago, young people came up to the capital to speak with their elected officials and say it was time to cancel student debt and sit -- and they said

they were crazy for thinking that but in this moment, the majority of legislators are tweeting out that today is a great day to cancel student debt because it is. this is an opportunity for us to reduce the racial wealth gap and give people the opportunity to become homeowners and business owners and have discretionary generational wealth building opportunities. let's think about this in a way in which we are liberating all of us. when we support the most marginalized people and put policies in place to allow them to be successful, everyone benefits. host: president biden yesterday spoke to democrats and expressed the fact that the supreme court may not allow his plan to go forward. do we know what that means for student debt? guest: the white house has not expressed anything to myself or our team but i recognize they are confident in their plan of

attack when it comes to ensuring they fight. we have been in conversations with the white house and president biden around the student debt cancellation right. i believe we will make this happen very soon. host: from california, democrats line. caller: good morning, i was listening to this this morning and i am disturbed by one caller. he talked about how he put his kids through school. they say how nonwhites are leaning on the system but that's not true. we were told in the 60's you go to school and you go to college and you go for the american dream. no one ever told me after my bachelors degree, i never took alone until my master graduate row graham. no one ever told me that i would

not be able to find a job. no one ever told me when i went into an interview that i would be discriminated because of the color of my skin. also, no one ever told me that i would be hitting charged interest on the student loan if the government or anybody decided to make a change and that needed to be rolled over or put on a different plan. no one ever told me. they are allowing for the banks to rip us off. then they turn around and you allow these big banks to take out theseppp's and take our money and every time we turn around we are helping people in another state. no disrespect to the train wrecks and i pray for those

people, but how is it that company is trying to put it the government to help? host: we will leave it there. guest: you are exactly right. we need to ensure the we are building a future where we put people over profits. we need to serve the interests of the people who elected you in the first place. you are right about the way this is executed. we have money for corporations but not for people. we need to make sure we invest more into opportunity for public good make sure we are giving people a leg up but understanding that equity wins. we are giving people what they need. this plan is giving people what they need in this moment in time and hopefully through conversation, we can see more because it ensures we have a more equitable future. we don't want to be burdened by student debt but are diving deep

into their majors. we want to create the changes in society. they need to live out their ancestors wildest dreams. host: the website is naacp.org. the national director for

>> we will discuss policy issues that impact you. coming up thursday morning, oregon democratic congressman, a member of the budget and ways and means committee discusses the budget that will be released tomorrow and the progressive agenda. former vice chair of the fbi see and former president and ceo of the federal reserve bank of kansas city on biden economic policies. director of the wilson center's mexico institute discusses the killing of two americans kidnapped and -- kidnapped in mexico. join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages and tweets. ♪ >> on thursday, the senate

environment and public works committee will hear -- will hold a hearing on the train derailment disaster. federal and local epa officials and the ceo of nor focused -- nor folk southern. ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including midco. ♪ >>midco supports c-span as a public service along with these

other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> the house foreign affairs committee is having a closer look at the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan. lawmakers heard a firsthand account of events on the ground as discussed -- as described. thority permission, we asked if we could shoot. our battalion commander said quote i do not know. myself and my team leader asked very harshly who does, because this is your responsibility? he replied he did not know but would find out. we received no update and never got our answer. we made everyone on the ground aware operations had halted but then started again. plain and simple, we were

ignored. our expectation was disregarded, no one was held accountable for our safety. staff sergeant darren huber, friend and mentor came to get need to find an afghan interpreter from the crowd.

>> i open my eyes to marines dead or unconscious around me. a crowd of hundreds immediately finished in front of me and my body was catastrophically wounded with 150 ball bearings now in it. almost immediately i started taking fire from the neighborhood and i saw my right arm was completely shredded and unusable. i saw my lower abdomen soaked in blood.

>> to crawled backwards seven feet. my body was overwhelmed, my abdomen had been ripped open. every inch of my body except for my face took ball bearings and shrapnel. i tried to get up, but could not. laying there for a few minutes i started to lose consciousness.

when i heard my team leader scream my name as he ran to me, a voice calling to me. screaming and cursing. i asked him please ask me about getting shot and how no one wanted my report post blast. even the fbi failed to interview me. they asked me to elaborate post blast and they asked about my family and that we should be reunited. our family members deserve the best because that is what we give to america. the withdrawal was a catastrophe in my opinion. there was an inexcusable lack of accountability and negligence. the 11 marines, one sailor, and one soldier that were murdered that day have not been answered