>> up next on washington journal, we we tail your comments and then we talk about donald trump and the news of the day with clarence page and john gi zzi. join the conversation. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy visit ncicap.org] ♪ host: religious holidays are happening and lillys line the altars of churches easter

sunday. outside of the holiday observances the influence of our beliefs is heard on a daily basis from issues ranging from affordable housing to abortion to gender identity to school policy. good morning and welcome to washington journal for sunday, april 9, 2023, easter sunday. and for the first hour we'll ask you, does your religion influence your politics? for republicans 702-248-8001. tempts, 202-748-8000. independents and others, 202-748-8000 and text us a message at 724-8003. tell us your name and where you're texting from. we're on facebook and twitter and instagram@cspanwj. we want to hear from you about whether it influences your vote, religious organizations you give to, does it influence where you

attend services, for example. we'll get to your comments and hear from members of congas well on the issue of religion in politics and the influence of religion in our policy across our country and across the world as well. does your religion influence your decisions. and congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. of course that's been interpreted and reinterpreted in many, many different ways and court settings and other arenas as well. as they do often, the pew research company does a regular survey, surveys of americans and their views on religion and one of those, nearly 3/4 of u.s. adults say religion should be

kept separate from government policies according to a survey in spring of 2022, they say just 25% say government policies should support religious values and beliefs while majorities of both democrats and democratic leaning independents, 84% and republican leaders 61% say religion should be kept separate from government policies. republicans are far more likely to say government should support religious values, 38% versus 16% and pew writes 4-10 protestants say government policies should support religious values and beliefs compared with 24% of catholics and 9% of religiously affiliated adults, those who describe their identity as atheist or smog in particular. evangelicals are split saying policies should support religious values and an identical share saying they should be kept separate from religion. does your religion influence

your politics, 202-748-8001 is the republican line, 202-748-8000 for democrats and for others, 202-748-8002. the republican from texas, chair of the foreign relations committee at the summit earlier this year, the religious freedom summit spoke about religious freedom around the world and what it means for the u.s. [video] >> pope francis said religious freedom is a fundamental human right and why religious freedom is a cornerstone of free society, especially here in the united states where it's enshrined in our constitution with our founding fathers said congress should make no law respecting a establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. we often call it the first freedom, not only because it is

first in the bill of rights but because it is a right from which all other rights flow. religious freedom is part of our national identity and why it's a critical component of u.s. forepolicy. the united states must continue to be a voice for the voiceless who are persecuted for their beliefs. i was proud when congress re-authorized the united states commission on international religious freedom last year. this program can now continue to shine a light on persecution around the world. and i want to thank the commission for its important work. tragically, religious freedoms remain increasingly under assault around the world, in china the chinese dom insist party is conducting an all out assault on religion. as we speak here today, they are attempting to completely dismantle the tibetan buddhism and the dalai lama. they persecute christians who

refuse to turn their backs and control government controlled churches and committing genocide against weaker muslims. the stories of forced sterilizations and forced abortions, brainwashing and even murder are horrifying. that's why i was so honored to lead a resolution condemning the c.c.p.'s genocide against the weegors that passed the house in 2021. host: congressman michael mccall of texas on this easter sunday morning, asking you about religion, does it influence your politics, 202-748-8001 is the line for republicans, 202-748-8000 for democrats and for independents and others, 202-748-8002. members up early and tweeting on this sunday morning. barry of lauder mill, a republican from georgia saying this, just a simple picture, he is risen is barry lowdermilk's message.

democrat of massachusetts, jianna hayes wishing everybody a blessed and happy new year. we'll go to the i saident line. mark is in mission, kansas. good morning. caller: thanks for having me on the show. i was born and raised as a scientific atheist but had a experience in life that changed that for me and my religion, whatever that is, does affect mi have a lot of trouble figuring out who i should vote for and so i kind of would like to tell but that story since it's easter sunday. it was back in the summer of 2008 and my now ex-wife was pregnant with our second child and a few months before he was supposed to be born but he stopped moving in her belly and

so the doctors had told us to -- that we went in and got some examinations and the doctors are like you should consider getting a late term abortion because it appears your child's going to be born dead due to a hernia that's over his heart and lungs and that was a stressful experience for us but decided we'd go through with it and see what happens. and you know, i went home with a moment by myself and the first time i experienced something like that, maybe experienced i'm going to be losing a child. 6 in the darkest moment of my life the truth i discovered about myself, what i said to myself, oh, my god, is this what you go through when you lose a child, is this what someone goes

through when you lose a child, if someone must bear this murderren, i must so no one else has to. and he was born perfectly healthy and i started to question medical science and doctors being right about things. and you know, we just kind of had a normal life for 10 years and then i had another experience which was very different, consider it kind of like a vision, you might say and i met this blue skinned man that sits on a golden throne chair and behind him stood a group of angels and based on his hat and robe i came to the conclusion it might be the ancient egyptian and i started doing more research on that and brought me to kind of why more people say

amen at the end of their prayers. and i don't really have anyone to share that with, don't really know what to make of it myself, but i thought i would call in and share it with you today. host: we'll go to fon du lac, wisconsin. caller: good morning. happy easter. first of all, i'm a democrat and know why i'm a democrat because i believe in choices in this country, that we all have individual choices, personal choices. i also believe in the separation of state and church. and i think everybody should be respecting that. the reason they don't is because the evangelical realized that power and control is in politics. and they should keep their

religions to themselves, go home and pray with your personal beliefs in your home and not in politics that affect the whole country. look what's happening in this country now because of what happened in the supreme court because of the evangelicals. they should mind their own business. in fact, they've got enough to mind behind their closed doors. religion is part of the root of evil and we see that a lot. so i hope people wake up and realize personal choices are personal choices and you keep your personal choice of religious beliefs in your home and in your church. host: do you think in the recent supreme court election in wisconsin this past week with the win by janet, obviously the issue of abortion had a lot to do with her victory from what we hear.

caller: it certainly did. we have a lot of young people, the young women that are scared. and that was a big issue. and thankfully it was a big issue. people have a right to their choices. i for one do not condone abortion but it's not my business to butt into other people's business. there are always circumstances. look at these poor doctors, they can't even feel they're free to take care of their patients, their pregnant women patients when they come and they're bleeding and on the phone talking to lawyers while their patient is dying. host: jim in pennsylvania, republican line. go ahead, jim. caller: good morning, it's a joyous morning when we celebrate christ conquering death for christians christ is preeminent.

we live our lives to follow christ and man's wisdom will be confounded by the lord. governments will fail. we see that in history. jesus saves. host: jim, specifically how do you think when that -- when you look who you vote for and who you support, how does your faith influence that? caller: well, when man makes laws that are contrary to god's laws, they put themselves in the position of being enemies with god. there is right and wrong and god tells us what is right. if we're not following god,

we're wrong. host: next, shawn on the independent line, katieville, new york. hello there. caller: hello. host: good morning, shawn, you're on the air. caller: is there any feedback? host: no, you're fine. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: doing just fine. good morning, how are you? caller: good, good. i just want to say myself personally, and i grew newspaper an era jimmy carter and the phrase born again a lot of times was maligned but long story short for me, i got saved about 30 years ago, i started reading the word of god, reading a bible and almost drowned and the lord saved me and for me it was black and white, it was night and day. i never read a bible. although i'd grown up in the catholic church, i'd never read a bible. again, for me, again, people get so polarized about the issue and

for me it's not politics, should it be in government, should it not, you have a group of people who believe that god came, walked this earth, died on a cross for their sin and rose from the dead. politics and all that is so far left behind, if you understand what i'm saying. host: obviously it's a very personal story for you, shawn. are you able to separate that personal experience, personal faith from your religious beliefs or from your political beliefs, i should say and the people you support and vote for? caller: well, i guess in what i just said there, maybe it wasn't clear but you can't separate it. it's like saying how can you separate everything, the core of who you are. so for me i don't look democrat, republican, conservative, liberal. everything -- and again, i'm not

saying i'm there and have arrived at god's perfect standard but i believe christ being the standard, christ having risen from the dead and the bible said one of the key statements in the bible apart from turn to christ and you'll be saved and receive eternal life is that jesus christ said i am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me. now, there is no separation. if you are truly a born again believer in christ, then it's going to affect not just aye effect or effect everything you think and do. does that make sense? host: we'll go to worcester, massachusetts, and sheila on the republican line. hi. caller: good morning and happy easter. i have a feeling on all this separation of church and state and that woman that just called

recently, i would ask these people which one of the 10 commandments is wrong? you believe in a supreme being and creator of all, you have to believe in something or nothing. the 10 commandments as our founding fathers said was the basis of a good society and there isn't one commandment that anyone can say is wrong. and i defy anybody to say it shouldn't be involved in the church and the state and in our lives. and i as a roman catholic believe that there is a christ and that he guides us through our lives, whether there's eternal life, we won't know until we get there. host: sheila, what do you say to americans who aren't religious or christian or aren't religious at all and their religion doesn't follow the 10 commandments to your point, what do you say to those americans,

where do they fit in in your view? caller: i ask them if they feel it's ok to lie, if it's ok to steal, if it's ok to kill, is it ok to covet people's goods, is it ok to covet other peoples -- lie, steal, dishonor elders, which one of those are they against? it just is a basic life -- it's just basic life to be good and to follow those basics. i just don't understand why anybody would possibly have any objection to any of the 10 commandments other than whether or not you believe in a god. host: massachusetts representative jim mcgovern was part of the recent summit on international religious freedom and spoke about the issue of religious intolerance. [video] >> as a practicing catholic

myself i know how important freedom of religion is and i'm very aware that my right to freedom of religion is only as strong as that of my muslim or hindu or buddhist neighbor. in our very diverse world, unless the rights of freedom exist for everyone, it doesn't truly exist for anyone. and the question that brings us together on this panel is why international religious freedom is vital to u.s. policy and i believe the answer is clear, americans value the right to religious freedom very highly. it's a fundamental right guaranteed in the first amendment in our own constitution alongside the rights to freedom of speech and assembly. these rights are part of who we are and they are also enshrined in the universal declaration of human rights who is drafting an adoption in 1948 were led by the united states. in addition, countries where

religious freedoms are under attack are often countries where repression and instability are the norm. the harder question may be, how best to promote the rights to freedom of religion, and here's my view, first, we should lead by example. this summit is focused on international religious freedom but we cannot expect other countries to take it seriously unless we are addressing threats to religious freedom here at home. anti-semitism is on the rise in the united states and islam phobia is widespread. i'm sure dr. singh did share many stories about the project sikh communities endure. as long as we're doing all to combat these attacks and disdain to religious authorities at home can we say what we say on the world stage to have the impact that we want. second, i get concerned when the right to religious freedom is separated out from other human rights.

the right to religious freedom does not exist in a vacuum. it is one of a set of universal human rights that are interdependent and mutually reinforcing. it is literally not possible to exercise the right to religious freedom and isolation from other human rights. we forget that at our peril. third, we must guard against the temptation to allow claims of religious freedom to be used to deny the rights of entire populations. religious people, the lgtbq community and to political leaders using their power to give the dictates of one religion the force of law. that kind of behavior is the very definition of the violation of the right to religious freedom. host: some comments on our topic on social media.

rebecca says this, does religion influence your politics? i can't fathom any religious person embracing someone who can't tell the truth. from north carolina, i believe god is neutral, i'm independent voting on a person based on their character and beliefs and not their political affiliation. the government should not interfere with people's spiritual life and enforce upon them restrictions on their spiritual convictions. in san diego, russ said you need to drop labels on people soliciting calls and you assign a phone number and the division among us will continue as long as you keep this up. thanks for the critique, russ. i'm a wit of an agnostic with a bit of cafe education and maybe my learning was subjective but good deeds matter, intent matters, the ways don't justify the ends. i had great teachers in my catholic schools that showed

kindness and compassion. from ipsos, a majority of americans say religion and spirtuality can bring people together, this public agenda examines the intersection between religious spirtuality and political divisiveness in the united states and most americans are concerned of political divisiveness between people and americans believe religion and spirtuality can bring people together and more say giving ordinary people a greater say in decisions that affect their lives is a way to deconstruct disagreements. our line for democrats is 202-748-8000 and calling from u.k. from england, good morning to paul. caller: good morning to all.

[speaking in foreign language] the values of american is bound by politicians. [inaudible] peoples rights are people's way of living and values in america. host: glad to have you on this morning, paul, tuning in via the web? caller: sort of by the web. host: thanks for joining in the conversation. interesting article from the bbc on this easter sunday morning, roughland village to return some crucifix, plucked from the

battlefield and brought to england can be returned to its original home in france. the cross is originally from the church which was destroyed along with the rest of the town in the world war i battle p. it was believed it was salvaged by a british army chaplin and placed in all saints church in rutland and more than a century later is to be taken back. read more at bbc.com. in atlantic city, new jersey on the independent line, welcome. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. host: you bet. caller: i wanted to say i thoroughly believe in the separation of church and state. i believe people have the right to practice their own religion but when it comes to politics it needs to stay out of politics because right now the religious right has really perverted our

politics causing the suffering to make women second class citizens. so that's one example of why religion should stay out of politics. there's also a lot of anti-semitism in this country and as a jewish person, that's very scary because they used to be under a rock and now they came out of the rock because of all the religion in politics and just doesn't belong in politics. host: stanley calling on the republican line in middletown, pennsylvania. hello there. caller: hey, first we should all thank god for c-span because it gives us all a right to say and voice our opinions. there's no way you can separate your beliefs from your politics because if you're a democrat, you're ok with killing unborn babies, if you're a republican, you're not. there's only two items for me.

i'd also like to say, mark and kevin, your testimonies were awesome. did not go unheard. god is real. i assure everyone god is real. i watched my own brother die and i believe and watched god take him. god is real. our country is in a bad way and the world is dumping our dollar like hot potatoes and we're fighting among ourselves. i have kids and grandkids. if i didn't have kids or grandkids i could care less about any of them and the jewish woman on there, my father taught me if you turn your back on the jewish people you will lose god's blessings. i fight for my gun rights and fight against abortion. my mother-in-law wanted to have my wife abort my oldest child, she's 39 and i have two beautiful granddaughters, mixed granddaughters from her and they don't have a father, i'm the man in their life.

i don't want to take up too much time but mark and kevin, beautiful testimony and god is real, i don't care what anyone says. three times i've had testimony where god has answered prayers and we see this all come together because we're doomed as a nation, all the political fighting, in-fighting between, it's barbaric what's going on. and our leader, what they've done, the way the media has hidden everything the left has done and the bidens have done, it's unbelievable. host: this is from "the new york times" this morning how nashville is preparing for easter sunday. nashville prepares to gather for easter less than two weeks after the shooting of six people at a small christian school in nashville. the city's raw morning was swept into sprawling emotional protest and political strife pull mine eighting in accusations of racism over the expulsion of two black legislators and been a extraordinary painful season of

hugs and funerals, marchs and speeches, tears and anger and now this embatterred city will pause and gather in its many churches for easter sunday. the culmination of the most important week of the christian calendar and the day that celebrates the resurrection of jesus, a biblical account for christians signifies the ultimate triumph of life over death and searching as a touchstone for mourners and activists across the city who are finding a kind of assurance in the 2,000 year old holiday. everything changes on sunday said the evangelical broadcaster who lives down the street of an armed assailant killed. our loss is not a race but we all get this visible reminder that hope is not lost. "the new york times" writes that nashville's distinctly evangelical ecosystem means the shooting deaths of three nine-year-olds and christian adults in a christian school had a reverberating effect through a

network of christian schools and celebrities in the interlocking world of music, money and ministry which means easter in nashville is different from other places in the country and services at the reimann and catholic cathedral value downtown and congress layingses large and small and a place where most know where their senators go to services and the question where do you go to church is a common ice breaker. more than half the adults in tennessee identify as processestants in a survey by the pew research center, more than twice the share nationally. the times writes it will be a moment for residents across the city to sit down, perhaps not in the same pews or with the same politics but to contemplate the same story. a half-hour left in our morning opening topic, does your religion influence politics, we'll go to keith in denver on the democrats line. go ahead, keith.

caller: good morning, happy easter, everyone. i think you got it right at the opening by reading the first amendment, congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. that's directly at odds with the first commandment in the bible, right? so to the caller who said our laws are based on the 10 commandments, 110% incorrect. i am the lord thy god and thou should have no gods before me, our constitution is separate of that. thou should not make unto me any grave amendments and there's the first amendment, freedom of speech, we can make images, remember the sabbath day, not a

law. honor thy mother and father, not a law. so all of that said, there's a lack of education and a lack of historical perspective. the founders had it right, they based our constitution on ideas of the french enlightenment and we all know that. those who made it past eighth grade. when i was coming up, i'm 63 years old, up until the mid 1980's, the reigns of power were only held by one group of people called wasps. white anglo axeton -- white anglo saxton protestants, now added to the supreme court court mostly catholic or having kennedy run because he was catholic and he would have the pope running him and running america, that's the danger of religion. but the most dangerous part,

fundamentalism. it doesn't matter the faith, the denomination, the spiritual side of it, if it is fundamental, there's a lack of understanding of metaphor. religion can be like a gun in the hands of the uneducated, uninformed and just, i'm sorry, stupid people, it can be twisted as it was with slavery and jim crow if they argue where black people have a soul or not and why they can enslave us because we didn't have souls. host: we'll go to nashville and hear from shawn calling on the independent line. welcome. caller: first of all, this is what easter is about, is futility and they won't tell you and go to the beginning of the bible where it says -- just look at it like this, if supposedly

the romans killed jesus and then now you have the roman catholic church and they took over and baptists and all these other religions but when it comes to the end, they should read revelations 8 and see what happens. a miseducation, whose fault is that? who is to blame for most of the trouble going on in the world? but, you know, hey we can talk all day, all night and nothing is going to change. i'm a spiritual person. that's all i got to say. host: the line for republicans, 202-'s 48-8001 and democrats 202-748-8000 and others 202-748-8002. republican dress oppose cito was

in conversation -- republican desposito was in conversation earlier this year and talked about the influence of religion in his life. [video] >> i grew newspaper a small pocket where you walk down the street and do something wrong, everyone knows what happened in five minutes. that was before facebook and it's a small community with our church, i was raised roman catholic, went to church every sunday and was an altar server, our church is like a small beacon in our community. i went to catholic high school, all boys catholic high school and faith has been a part of my life from day one and something i lean on each and every day, especially now but faith has always been a part. not only my faith but i had the opportunity to represent a diverse community both now and prior to being a member of the town board, a very large group of orthodox jews and i think

it's faith in general is respecting other people's faith, their traditions and think that makes a well rounded, well respected elected official. >> how do you lean on your faith every day? >> i think it's one of those things where when you're going to say something, i always say -- people say count to three, i say hail mary so i know i don't say something terribly wrong. i think it's something referring back to growing up and the way i was raised and going to mass and the lessons learned and going to catholic school, it's just, you know, sort of taking that deep breath and being one with your inner self and really trying to go to bed each and every night laying my head on my pillow knowing i did the best i possibly could for everyone i represent. host: we've looked at several polls from ipsos and the pew research company and a poll from n.p.r., more than half republicans support christian nationalism according to a new survey and write long seen as a

fringe viewpoint, christian nationalism now has a foothold in american politics particularly in the republican party according to a survey from the brookings institution and in this piece they write that long seen is a fringe viewpoint, christian nationalism now has a foothold in american politics particularly in the republican party according to a new survey and researchers found more than half republicans believe the country should be strictly a christian nation, either adhering to the ideals of christian nationalism or sympathizing but according to prri brookings study only 10% of americans view themselves as ad herance of christian nationalism and about 19% of americans said they sympathize with these views. we go to bradenton, florida, barney on the democrats line, welcome. caller: hello. host: make sure you mute your volume on your television and

then go ahead with your comments. caller: yeah, my comment is that christian conservatives will make a pilgrimage down to mar-a-lago, and i noticed the republican christian party will support israel soon as israel do any small thing they turn on them quick just like they did with george soros. he's from israel, he's a jew. you see how they quickly turned on him? i guess they will take their privilege down to donald trump and worship god. y'all have a nice day. host: on to shepherd, texas, next. joe on the republican line. go ahead. caller: what is the first word of the first amendment?

host: congress. caller: how does congress get translated in shepherd independent school district or shepherd board local government or the state of texas government? host: sir, your point is what? those amendments to the constitution shouldn't apply to the states and localities? caller: no. i mean the word "congress" in the first amendment is referring to the u.s. congress. host: right. caller: it says nothing about the states except by the 10th amendment. and the only reason we have government separated from government is because othe court wants it that way. but the court is violating the constitution all over the place.

host: well, you're skipping over the 14th amendment there, joe. the 14th amendment guaranteed the rights in the constitution to residents in all the states, so guarantees those rights to states and localities. caller: that still only says congress should do it. i'm not stepping over anything, its your people in media and government skipping over the constitution of the united states, starting with the very first word of the first amendment. host: all right. does your religion, your faith influence your politics, 202-748-8001 is the line for republicans, it's 202-748-8000 for democrats and 202-748-8002 for independents and others on social media via text or twitter

mary lou says my catholic religion is private and i believe in a secular government and the evangelicals are the most hateful i've met and the host is pushing the far right agenda and we'll hear from the right wing hypocrites p. we'll hear from everybody, mary lou. respect and love for others are at the top of my list. organized religion and religious beliefs are two different things. one from becky, everyone gets to vote their beliefs and christians don't get allowed to? i believe in writing in a flintstone than any maga. marleen is from massachusetts on the democrats line. hi. caller: i'm a first time caller so i'm a little bit nervous this morning. host: welcome p. glad to have you on. caller: thank you, thank you so much.

i just want to reference what your caller initially from pennsylvania said. i think he was spot on. i think that it's kind of hard to, you know, to really have a personal relationship with god in christ and not have it color how you see the world. and i think that the woman that called earlier, i believe she was from florida, i think she's dead wrong when it comes to really -- when she referenced that, you know, our laws are based on the 10 commandments. it's not. it's based on principles that was founded through the enlightenment. and anyone who has bothered to go to grade school would know that. as for me, i do consider myself

an evangelical. i grew up in the church. my grandfather was a deacon, my grandmother was a mother of the church. and i considered myself to be a student of the bible which means i read it, i study it, i reflect on it and meditate on the words that are outlined in scripture and i think it really grieves me you have so many people who claim to be believers but it's more of a cultural thing it seems to me than really and ad a station, i believe, of faith. host: do you think that's a newer thing in your experience and your life as a christian, is that a newer thing, that it's become more of a cultural phenomenon to you? caller: absolutely. i'll give 2000 examples. and unfortunately, these are

congresswomen in congress, marjorie taylor greene where she compared donald trump to jesus christ or representative from colorado who made this absolutely fantastical claim about if jesus had an ar-15, he wouldn't be crucified. well, yeah, but that's kind of the whole point. the whole point for jesus being crucified is that a, he was gone incarnate and he was sent to die on the cross in place of us because, you know, based on the introduction of sin due to disobedience in the garden of eden that we were alienated from god and that, you know, the only way we could be reconciled was

through, you know, jesus offering himself the perfect sacrifice p. he was without sin. and anyone who is a student of the bible who studies it and reads it would know that. and i think that for me, what i find most disturbing about the evangelical movement today is that it's not about spreading the message of the gospel, it's more about the acquisition of power. and in the bible it does say we are not supposed to lay up pressures for ourself on earth but to look towards heaven, look towards the kingdom of god and seek out his righteousness, i think. and so i just hope that people this easter sunday, particularly those who claim the mantle of being a believer was actually

really sit down and reflect on it, pray over it and that's really all i have to say this morning. host: glad you got through, first time caller and appreciate your point of view and go to the other side of the country to fairbanks, alaska, mike on the independent line. good morning. caller: good easter to you, bill, c-span and what's left of america. christian religion drives my interest in politics. i pray every day for our country to turn around and abandon its dark ways, such as killing babies. when a nation slaughters their unborn, bill, they schedule their own execution. i also pray that jesus and the holy spirit fills the hearts of washington and that he continues to bless president trump, alex jones, and the maga movement

which i think is crucial to turn this country around because right now we are in deep trouble. i think every agency has been weaponized against christianity and life in the womb, even after the womb. i think it's a terrible thing and just pray that jesus and the lord comes into everybody's hearts in washington and they change their evil ways. thank you, bill. host: throughout her career in politics and before she was speaker, the former speaker, nancy pelosi, often talked about her faith, recently on msnbc she expounded further on that topic. >> give advice to those frustrated by our politics now. n. video] >> about how you can start to get people to vote not on how politics will influence your religion but how it will impact your life. you're a religion person. >> it reminds me, we were talking, at georgetown the other

day and we talked about this but didn't say a thing but say it now because you ask the question. when president kennedy was running for president, he went to houston and spoke to all these ministers there and the question is, what religion do you believe in, of course as a catholic that was not going to be popular. and he said it's not important what religion i believe in, what's important is what america i believe in. and that's what we have to be thinking in terms of. host: follow up on social media. this one says the writers of the constitution specifically designated to keep religion out of our government. paul says does your hate of the u.s. constitution influence your politics? this one, we talked about that one, authentic christians, this one says, aren't involved in politics. rick is in jackson, michigan. rick on the republican line, go ahead. caller: good morning, bill. happy easter. host: thank you.

caller: religion does influence my politics. i'm catholic christian and i follow the 10 commandments so when it comes to voting, i vote for the individuals that closely relate to my beliefs on the 10 commandments. host: all right. next up, thomas on the independent line. you're on. caller: yeah. good morning. host: good morning. caller: i enjoy these conversations and i confess, i've got a couple graduate degrees in political science and have been studying this religion in politics, past, present and possible futures for my 40 years and will admit my bias right up front. i respect people who base their political decisions on their religious faith but i wish they would admit that. that it is based on faith and their interpretation of their religion texts and not

extrapolate that to cherry pick the constitution and the declaration to fit their religious beliefs. faith-based, not fact-based beliefs. i just want to throw that out there and ask commenters to bear that in mind going forward. host: to miami, florida, next up, and laura on the democrat line. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. so good to talk to you. i never expected to get through but it's wonderful that i did. i have to tell you, i was raised a catholic. i went to a private girls catholic school in the same congregation jackie kennedy went in new york. but i actually am not a practicing catholic because i think the catholic church and all the churches really have used their power on abuse, particularly the government church. i just read a story about in

maryland how much child abuse there was in baltimore, maryland where the children in the catholic church years after they were abused because children do not recover well from sexual abuse. and i think that that, you know, i know a lot of people extremely religious and go to church every morning at 6:00 in the morning. that's fine. i don't have a problem with that. but i have faith in signs and believe the energy. and if you have faith that the energy of the universe will give you hell, you can call it god if you want, you know, on health and wealth and bring everything you need to your life because they can tell us what you need.

i guess i learned it from george costanza who healed himself through having faith in the power of the universe. even though his mother is a catholic and all that. but i cannot follow a church that brushes child abuse under the table. i'm from peru and i have a friend who, you know, they took a taxi and went on this trip and they stayed with the monks on the roadside retreat and the monks tried to abuse the children that were there only overnight. host: next up is margaret in

texas, independent line. caller: good morning, everyone. host: good morning, margaret. make sure you mute your television and then go ahead with your comment. caller: good morning, everyone. my religion or nonreligion because i'm an atheist influences my voting and i get very -- even because i am an atheist does not mean i don't have a set of morals and ethics. and it perturbs me with these christians that call in that i don't think they even have studied the bible. i'm a historian, a 95-year-old retired historian. i've examined and researched the bible of what is occurring at the time and have changed and i

find it very perturbing that they quote it and don't take into account that jesus was a man who taught love and welcomed the foreigner, open your doors and see the other, and they get so set in their little tricks, not even christianity at large in texas, you've got to belong to a certain sect of christianity to be accepted. i just think it's terrible that these religious groups really now proposing hate for the other. and it is really terrible. in this little town just recently, two methodist churches split because there were those within the church that didn't accept the proposition that

messengers except the lbgtq people into their assembly so they left the church and formed their own little narrow church. so this is how i feel about religion, it should have no part in politics. and it should be that those who do follow religion need to read jesus' teaching again. host: thank you, margaret. the headline here from "the wall street journal"oll, america pulls back f values that once defined it. the wsjnroc poll finds religion and hard work hold less importance in that poll, some of respondents say patriotism was vportant to them and 39%religion was very important. that was down sharply from when the journal first asked the question in 1998, when 70%

deemed patriotism to be very important and 62% said so of religion. enter lock in michigan is next up. rod on the republican line, hello. caller: hello. i just wanted to give my input to religion and politics, this is the reason why we have so much division in this country is because religion has been put into politics as a result of the republican party wanting to influence elections. if we could get religion out of politics and people could just look at politics for what they are and religion for what they are, we wouldn't have this division in this country. thank you. host: paul from tennessee is next. daniel, democratic caller, hi there. caller: how are you doing today? host: fine, thank you. caller: i've listened, i said,

we all go to church and believe in god but stuns me a lot of times people on abortion and everybody likes guns. i don't care for guns but guns serve no purpose, in the past people hunt and kill rabbits and stuff but now we just base everything on my constitutional rights to bear arms and it's not 1, 800 no more and i can't understand that but you want to have women you can control from having their own rights, that you can invade it. look at how many folks are dying in the united states with guns. we make all these excuses about guns that our guns don't kill people. but where we come from with guns we can't live together in peace? it stuns me when you talk about abortion and then you want to

steal a gun. i can't understand how you can divide the two. host: the issue of guns certainly is crime and an opinion piece in the "washington post" yesterday, easter week in d.c., a story of hope, a backdrop of despair and writes as of good friday, the day christians commemorate the crucifix of jesus and death on his cross at cal a vary, the district recorded 60 homicides since the year began compared to calvary and exception of family and friends those deaths will fade from memory and i'm certain those victims last days spent were not on top of the hill with those looking on but died in hallways and cars and death did not come from nails in the hands and feet and their executions were none complete than the ones in calvary and why i return to

the carnage in our midst and what makes it more depressing is hear city leaders proclaim there was no crime crisis in the city as they watched and to watch as they say it with pride things such as the number of violent crime incidents in 2022 was 45% lower than the number of violent crime incidents in 2012. read more of his piece in the washingtonpost.com. republican line in fort lauderdale, david, good morning. caller: this is what people cannot understand. you cannot put politics. host: mute your volume there, you're getting a little confused. go ahead with your comment but mute the tv. caller: yes. you cannot mix politics and religion, that's insignificant. this is what's wrong. and so many christians were persecuted and killed. this is insignificant. this is not right.

but america believes one thing will prevent you to go to heaven, abortion and racism and prejudice, your hatred, same thing. who so ever hurt his brother is a murderer, not only is somebody of abortion is him and my daughter get ripped. as a christian and minister of the gospel i will not acceptthi. the people have to come to the same. the bible says as we approach the end of times, things will get worse. god's prophecy must be accomplished. these people are talking, if they fix washington things will be good. they are ignorant of the truth. things will never become better

because god's prophecy must become accomplished for this world to end. host: our republican line, toledo ohio,, good morning to elizabeth. caller: i just wanted to say my religion -- well, i don't believe in religion. i have a faith. my faith is in god. i don't have any religion. it is too bad what is going on in washington dc right now with all of these fights and accusations and telling lies, blaming the other. it has already been prophesies to 2000 years ago, so if people would read revelations in the king james version, this has been prophesied. i'm sorry to even see it.

i don't have a relation, but i do have a faith and that is in jesus christ and his father. host: over to jack in angle, virginia -- inghall, virginia. turn on your tv -- turn down your tv and answer. caller: [indiscernible] why is it that government and religion is not supposed to be

connected? our coins have "in god we trust," on them. i believe in god and his son. god bless donald trump. host: on to venice, florida, republican caller, jacob, you are next. caller: i would like to share what i believe. i believe jesus christ is the only son of god. he died for me. he purchased me with my blood. my body is not my own. i m a living sacrifice, wholly acceptable to him. that is my reasonable duty. now on our armor, god tells us to wear armor, and the important part of that armor is the truth, the belt of truth.

what the enemy would like us to do is take the belt off. when you do not have truth, and you cannot agree on truth than it is time to separate. the reason why our country cannot agree is because they want us to lie. they want us to agree with them. they want us to agree with sin. god convicts the spiritual person and says that is not right. you are to fear god and keep my commandments. the other side keeps saying no, we want you to live like the world. we will not live like that. we draw the line in the sand. host: the issue that draws out religious supporters on all sides is abortion. " abortion pill cases are likely

to go to the justices. the dramatic dueling rulings by 2 district court judges about access to a widely used abortion pill instead of -- is a lower court conflict that will undoubtedly be sent to the supreme court. it is imperative for the supreme court to step in, said stephen vladek, law professor at the university of texas in austin. a the luminary ruling overruled the 23 year approval by the fda of an abortion pill, which could make it more difficult for patients across the country to access the medication. less than an hour later, a federal judge issued a ruling that contradicted the texas judge, by asking the fda to make no changes to the availability of the drug in the district of columbia.

the drug continues to be available. texas judge matthew cast mark stayed his order for seven days to allow the fda to seek the intervention of an appeals court. the conflict between the two is not sustainable said a law professor at the university of notre dame. the times has already filed a notice and is appealing the texas ruling to the u.s. court of appeals. in los lunas, new mexico, beth is calling in on the topic of the influence of your faith on politics. caller: my name is beth. i live in new mexico. actually, i am a first-time collar so i am a little bit nervous. host: glad to have you. don't worry about it. caller: i am not a religious

person, but i do believe in god. i believe in the words of jesus. he was all about love. i think god's goodness. jesus is love and the holy spirit is light or the knowledge to know the difference between good and evil. i wanted people to read jesus' words in matthew 25:31-46. it is the parable of the sheep and the goats. in the end he says, if you have done the lease for one of these, you have done it for me. that is what influences my politics. host: i appreciated that call. still on washington journal, up

next we will be joined and we will be talking about the trump indictment, campaign 2024 and other news of the day. 2 guests, first up lawrence page, and later this morning john gizzi on the program. ♪ -- clarence page and later this morning john gizzi on the program. ♪ >> if you are enjoying book tv than sign up for our newsletter using the qr code on this screen to receive a schedule of upcoming programs, book festivals, and more. book tv, every on c-span two. television for serious readers.

>> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep up with the days latest events with floor proceedings and hearings from u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns and more from the world of politics are late your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span now is available on the apple store and on google play. c-span now, your front row seat washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ >> there are a lot of places to get political information, but only at c-span do you get it straight from the source. no matter where you are from, or where you stand on the issues, c-span is america's network,

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chicago tribune, clarence page. welcome back to washington journal. it is one of those weeks where seemingly local stories have taken national prominence. the local da in new york indicting the former president, the supreme court race in wisconsin, and in your hometown chicago, the mayor's race, and the turmoil in the tennessee legislature. i want to start in chicago. why do you think that has a national significance or might have a national significance? guest: it might be symbolic, but not purely symbolic. what you have here is a runoff between 2 gentlemen who are represented by 2 polar opposites in chicago democratic party politics. you have brandon johnson who is a progressive, former

schoolteacher, school union organizer backed by the chicago teachers union. you have paul vallas, former chief executive of the school and a guy -- he is backed by the chicago police union! in other words, he is a more conservative, strong law and order candidate. host: nevertheless, a democrat. guest: is there another party in chicago? [laughter] it is a significant race in that it has been heavily issue oriented. thank goodness, i cut my teeth as a reporter covering a race in 87. the city was being watched by

the country because of the racial divisions. it was not so much racial as it was ideological, if you will. the liberals versus the progressives. the results were very close. host: do you think national liberals saw that as a win for them? guest: i know national democrats were watching this race closely. the commentary by differing gradations of liberals and conservatives are saying that joe biden should take a from this race about staying with the moderate version of liberal ideology. it is better than they progressive version. brandon in wisconsin was being --

he was being attacked for his position on defunding the police. he said we are not defunding the police. he one to to change the way money is distributed. he wanted to do more to attack the root causes of crime. that is a classic liberal position. in the end he won. we are waiting to see now which argument works best. host: frustration continues in chicago, new york city. we read a piece from the new york times expressing his frustration at how they are handling crime in this city. guest: crime was nationwide during the pandemic. chicago got hung with it most

heavily by forces on the right, not just republicans but fox news and other conservative media holding up mayor lori lightfoot as an example of how liberal policies don't work. lloyd had problems not just because of that. that debate still goes on. i have been covering chicago off and on for half a century now! i can't believe it. we have had worst cri -- worst crime rates than this. host: you are writing about the indictment this week of former president donald trump i the new york district attorney -- by the new york district attorney. the headline from your piece after that, headlining in the las vegas review journal "equal

justice even for donald trump and other suspects." how do you think this case will play out? guest: it will be used by both sides to backup whatever position they happened to hold. it will be a long two years in terms of going through the process of adjudicating these charges he has been hit with in new york, not to mention the charges awaiting him in georgia and -- who am i leaving out? the fats! we still don't -- the feds! we still don't know what the department of justice will do with respect to january 5. donald trump is making -- january 6. victimization has always been important to his political movement. they are playing of the victimization post to death

right now. [laughter] pardon me, i am being pursued by these forces on the left o to get me and that -- out to get me that really means they are out to get you, my supporters. it is demagoguery, and i can say that because i am an opinion writer. people who are old enough to remember when wallace was running in the 60's in the wake of the civil rights advances of that time, a similar backlash movement rose up. when donald trump started to run, he was pulling from the george wallace playbook on so many issues. lined order, etc. -- law and order, etc.. i never expected to see george wallace to come back to us from queens, which is donald trump's

home borough in new york. host: politically though, in terms for the former president it has been a win. he has been able to fund raise. guest: there is. fundraising is the game for trump and many other politicians. certainly, donald trump needs money now. i know that is not something we associate with him, but he does need money. he has a lot of legal fights to go through. it was interesting watching him in court today, the still pictures that were allowed. it is a different kind of a trump then we have known in the past. he was sitting at the table with his attorneys. he was reduced from a larger than life figure two a criminal suspect. is -- host: the lines for your questions and paul's i -- and

calls (202) 748-8000 four democrats -- for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 for independents. the house are publicans in tennessee wanted pearson and the others to assimilate. when you saw the debate and the expulsion of those members, what were your first thoughts on that? guest: i was flashing back to the chicago seven trial back in the late 60's when the black panther leader was tied to a chair by the judge who got tired of the outbursts. a similar kind of thing here.

the 2 black lawmakers who were suspended plus the white woman who is not suspended, they both exemplified the outrage that a lot of people feel on the streets right now around this gun issue, and they wanted to speak and were not being allowed to because they were going over time. this is a routine matter and legislating usually, but in this case the powers that be in this predominantly republican state legislature decided your voice has got to be silenced, just kicked them off the council. no has to go through a process, and apparently a process is going on back in their home districts to have them reinstated. they have their points to make. it is like bobby seale back in

the 60's when he was tied to a chair and gagged to stop him by judge julius hoffman at the time to stop him from shouting his outbursts there in the courtroom. that picture, the courtroom artist's conception of him being bound and gagged when across the country. it is the same thing. people who did not like the position of these democratic legislators, they made a national story. host: i want to ask you about another clarence -- clarence thomas, the subject of your opinion piece towards the end of this last week. the organization pro-public had an extensive investigative report on the travel of the supreme court justice clarence

thomas and the use in particular of the property of the yacht of a rich, republican donor. what was your view of what you read in that report? guest: unfortunately, let me say, i don't want to jump to any conclusions but, the appearance of impropriety was particularly hard to forgive here. that was the main theme of my column. we can be lawyerly about this and say, textually it was not a rule but he broke, the fact is just good sense tells you if you are a judge, a supreme court justice like clarence thomas, you represent more than just another judge. to have taken this largess,

trips on super yachts, private jets, the good life is the way i used to say it. it reminded me of that tv show succession or dallas. when you have got that kind of fabulous wealth, it is hard for people to believe "we are just old friends off fishing together." justice scalia was like this as well. we are off on hunting trips with friends who obviously believe in our possession. host: the appearance of impropriety -- over the years it has been in all parties. why do some politicians lose that vision? they're not able to see the appearance of impropriety. guest: donald trump is never

worried about the appearance of impropriety. when you criticize him for whatever it is, his supporters get more angry and more supportive of him. host: a supreme court justice, unlike a president is not responsible to have a answer to the voters. guest: thank you for pointing that out. supreme court justices are different. it is a lifetime commitment for one thing. you get appointed after going through a hearing process where you claim to be more pure than caesar's wife, and once you get in it does not look good for you to suddenly get real flamboyant about public tolerance for corruption. people defined find corruption in different ways. i can't define it but i know it when i see it. that is the way people feel about corruption. it has been an issue off and on

in chicago for the past few decades. host: set the table for a few issues. we will get to some more, i'm sure. we have a few calls. we begin with john in malta. caller: i had a few comments for mr. page. i really enjoyed his columns. they are really insightful. i just had some comments to make regarding a lot of the things that you said regarding trump. i voted for him. i am a republican conservative. i don't know if i would vote for him again. i would like to see desantis or somebody in. it is disturbing to see the trend that the country is following. trump has not been giving due process in any respect on social

media and the press. they demonize him and vilify him. this indictment right now is kind of like a toxic thing. you do not see that with democrats. hillary clinton, you don't see the same set of rules apply to her or even biden with some of the things he has done. what is happening right now is just solidifying this space. it is tearing the nation apart. things don't look good down the road with regards to that. one of the other things mentioned was the case in tennessee. you have to respect people's rights to protest, but there is a way to do it and a way to move forward. those demonstrators and the legislator did not do that. they wanted to seize the moment, and they were very disruptive.

i'm not saying that was the best solution to remove them from the legislature. they will get put back in, but people have to understand that just because they are mad they cannot go and commit crimes, burn buildings down, lewd stores and take over governing bodies. i would like your comments -- loot stores and take over governing bodies. i would like your comments on this -- soros backed da's are not moving the country forward. they are deep in these racial divisions to the point where they are making them permanent. people have to understand that what they have to do is keep an even keel and apply common sense to a lot of these things, and like you pointed out with paul vallas, take a modern approach - - moderate approach. host: several things there.

guest: several things indeed. first of all, donald trump has gotten due process, yes. what do you think due process is? i asked facetiously. i think a lot of people don't know what do process is. i blame law & order, the tv show. people are accustomed to justice being dealt in half an hour. i think of -- it took dozens of years to put him behind bars. the same thing is happening for donald trump. this is only the beginning of what will be a long process. is he being treated less fairly

than hillary clinton? clinton's benghazi controversy -- she sat before congress and testified for 11 hours. nothing of consequence happened as a result of it, except both sides walked away saying "see, i was right all along!" i agree with this caller that we are a divided country. in the past we have found ways to deal with these things and come together, but it is ironic because the tennessee mess got started because of people who wanted commonsense gun reform in the wake of this horrible shooting that killed 3 children and three adults. don't blame people for being upset

with the status quo right we -- host: oceanside, california our next caller. caller: i am a republican, conservative. i am a traditional roman catholic and proud of it. if your religion does not influence your politics, you need to get a different religion because the purpose of religion is to teach us how to live on the surface and hopefully to obtain heaven afterwards. if we are not going in that direction, but we are going in another direction then we have the wrong religion. i agree with almost everything that first gentleman said and i agree with him on just about everything. i think donald trump is great because he brings back to us what we need, which is strength, courage, and the ability to but

china and russia in their places, which does not belong with their boot on top of us. that is what i had to say. host: our caller there, clarence, talking about our first our topic, talking about religion and politics. guest: that was a very nice call to receive on easter sunday because this is a time to reflect on the role of the religion and our moral, ethical values. w aree seeing this played out in real time. people have different views as to how religion can best intersect with politics. i don't dismiss it. there is the separation of church and state in our legal tradition, but not necessarily in the minds of all the citizens. this is one of the things we need to resolve in regards to

how we apply these values. host: i don't know if our previous caller was referring to the manhattan district attorney alvin bragg when he spoke about roby d.a.'s but i wanted you to comment on that -- rogue d.a.'s but i wanted you to comment on that. here is what alvin bragg had to say in a news conference. [video clip] >> michael cohen wired $130,000 to stormy daniels lawyer. that payment was too high damaging information from the voting public. the partisan scheme was illegal. the scheme violated new york election law, which makes it a crime to conspire to prevent a candidacy by unlawful means. the $130,000 wire payment exceeded the federal contribution cap, and it

violated new york law. that is why mr. trump made false statements about his payments to mr. cohen. he could not say that the payments were a reimbursement for mr. cohen's payments to stormy daniels. to do so, to make that true statement would have been to admit a crime, so instead mr. trump said that he was paying mr. cohen for fictitious legal services in 2017 to cover up actual crimes committed the prior year. i ordern to get michael cohen his money back they planned one last false statement. in order to complete the scheme they planned, to mischaracterize the repayments to mr. cohen as income to the new york state tax authority. the conduct i just described and

that, which was charged by the grand jury's felony criminal conduct in new york state. host: what do you think the biggest challenge facing the manhattan d.a. will be in the months to come? guest: getting past the hatred americans have of math. not many of us did that well in math in school, and when prosecuting financial crimes, there is a lot of math involved. this is something that alvin bragg is familiar with because his district covers wall street. he deals with these high-powered, very intricate schemes of -- i like to use the term laundering money because we are talking about money that was intended to pay off a woman, stormy daniels, which was being

listed, reported as regular campaign expenses. that is the core of this view here. we are seeing along political lines people either criticizing or praising bragg's actions. it amuses me to see people who are fervent supporters of law & order, we were talking in the last segment about law & order candidates, who all of a sudden are getting soft on crime when it comes to financial crimes committed, perhaps by donald trump. alvin bragg is pursuing this case, and i respect him. he has surprised a lot of people by doing well. host: you have covered cases over the course of your reporting, and everybody has an opinion on this thing. everybody has heard about the former president will have an

opinion. guest:. i have heard that before we always find juries. i have a lot of faith in the ability of the american people to step back and be dispassionate about this. you cannot -- you don't need to have no opinions. whenever the verdict comes down, the opinion wills -- the public will see it, and evaluated, and if it is going to affect -- evaluate it, and if it is going to affect their vote, than it will. donald trump is not the pope. the public thinks his sins are not so bad that he should be denied the white house. they have the right to vote for him. i know a lot of people who feel quite the opposite. many of my republican friends

are in a quandary over trump, because he really does control the party these days. how do you oppose him without appearing to oppose america? host: on-air democrats line, greensburg, north carolina, jeffrey. guest: thank you very much. happy -- caller: thank you very much. happy easter. i hope you can give me the opportunity to get some of these points out. what you are talking about is very much running through my thoughts. going back to the statement about the justice system, what your host was expressing, a fair, and open decision by people being able to hear a case against the former president. it shouldn't be no question

about whether the justice system works, whether you will get a bad trial. obviously, it has been already a situation that history has shown us that you go back to unfortunately what happened in l.a. with the rodney king situation, we saw there was no justice at the end of that circumstances, but we had to live with that. white america has to understand that this gentleman is running for the highest office of this land. the decisions will come out of his administration. what is so dangerous, and what everyone is so up and arms about this, district attorney, an african-american who is qualified and got elected, obviously he is not going to make the mistake of his career in the sense of how far he has

come in life to achieve this, to take the case without having the facts and evidence there to prove it. mr. trump himself has put it out in the open on numerous occasions. more importantly, it is opinions and image. his image is everything. to proclaim that the election was still stolen -- filter out narratives that are not true. very dangerous. he has a base that is either intimidated of him. he is the only president who has been so outspoken. there is no other person emulating that to the point where they can compete with his approach or what has now become

the new normal. it is so sad to know it took his actions to put before america someone in that position who can run for the presidency of the united states of america. he believes he cannot be held accountable. since he became president, it is like you can't touch me. host: thanks for your comments. clarence page? guest: game it's in good points there -- he made some pretty good points there. it is important that we do hold our leaders accountable, regardless of how popular they may be in the minds of some people. it is an age-old question i suspect we will find in answer to -- find an answer to as

this progresses. how do you find a fair jury? how does the public get a fair prosecution? as the story unfolds, it becomes less exciting. we know that. people what they just outcome in a hurry, but there will be more and more information coming out. i have always seen it in the polling numbers once you get past the initial excitement, anger, and antipathy, cooler heads begin to prevail. "maybw trump is not worth ite?" we are seeing that among republicans. their numbers were going up before trump was indicted, but it is quite possible we see those numbers go back down again if this thing drags on. "maybe i should look at that

dissent is fellow or whatever -- desantis fellow or whatever." anything can happen. host: we will go to the independent line from joe in dade city, florida. caller: good morning. my question was -- or i should say i have an opinion. i know he is an opinion writer. in his opinion does he believe that the koch industries -- does he feel that the coke brothers have any influence on trump -- koch brothers have any influence on trump or the republican party yet? guest: thank you! whenever i think of george

soros, i think what about the koch brothers? they give more money illegally to political candidates than george soros does but, i don't hear anyone talking about that because democrats have been less aggressive on that point like republicans have been aggressive about attacking george soros. we have a political system that you get the best candidates money can buy because we do not have campaign fundraising limits. there are many ways for people to spread the candidates of their choice. going after contributors is another technique. host: certainly other potential candidates -- you mentioned ron desantis -- they must a at the indictment, the fundraising of the former -- they must to look

at the indictment, the fundraising of the former president and worry they cannot get up to the level of what the former president could do. guest: my email box shows all the fundraising emails i get from the left and the right. this is the system that we have. i partly blame obama. he was the first candidate since watergate to turn down matching funds. he did not need them because he was raising so much money through the internet. it was the younger days of twitter and facebook, but obama had the racist success with that. -- the greatest success with that. i i'm not happy about my stuffed email box, but this is what the reality of politics is. host: on to how on the

republican line. -- hal on the republican line. hal is in connecticut. caller: this thing we are talking about, government and religion. i think there is a religion cult, which is the trump base. i believe -- this is my belief -- his followers, especially people in government, the conservative republicans, he has got to have some kind of dirt on these people to be so fearful of crossing him. you take a cold like charlie manson, he had followers. -- a culy like charlie manson, he had followers, that these are

not people who control the government. what you have now is a cult. if trump gets in, we will be ruled by a cult. i don't want to join a cult. if you don't want to fold, you will not get all of the goodies that the cult members are going to have. i don't like being controlled by a cold and i think -- cult and, i think that is what is coming down. guest: i think we are the ones who decide if we will be in a cult or if we will encourage others to be in one. i think it is not just a question of cult-like following. donald trump is saying things that people want to hear, or he

is giving a voice to people who felt voiceless before. i have talked to j.d. vance about this. he is the author of hillbilly elegy who read successfully for the senate. we came from the same hometown in ohio. when you read hillbilly elegy, you are reading about where i grew up. host: interesting. guest: the boom of the 60's and 50's was different from the town in ohio that j.d. vance grew up i where then steel mill was closing. dozens of other factories across ohio that used to be there when i was growing up, are no longer there. the good life that was therefore working class ohioans is not there anymore. i went to ohio university with only $700 tuition.

now -- last time i checked it was around $14,000. the good life, we used to know after world war ii. it is not there anymore. i don't blame them for being upset. it the obligation of the political class. it comes down to the candidates themselves. do you them or not? do they have your best interest in -- do you trust to them or not? do you have yo -- do they have your best interest in mind? are you still worried whether your son or daughter will find a job after college? we get a lot of comedy out of our politics, there are some serious issues we need to deal with. the candidate you are following is just giving you a thrill, but

not giving you any real ideas or progress. host: being from j.d. vance's hometown, must of been interesting to watch that senate race last year. why do you think j.d. vance pulled it out of her tim ryan? guest: i was disappointed. when jd and i first meant he was known as a trump critic. i told him i hope you will stick with that decision. he didn't. i think you can see why. in a field of nine or 10 candidates. host: gop primary field. guest: it was a crowded field. as soon as jd got donald trump's endorsement, all of a sudden he shoots up from ninth place to second and won the election. donald trump'' power outs there

is not to be reckoned with or to be reckoned with. not to be ignored is what i mean. the power that he has -- why does he have that power? he picks his in -- he picks his issues well. in ohio he picked just the right issues. you are not being heard! you can go a long way with that. over my journalism career, i think people in politics, religion, and numerous others who have used that because they are so good at it, expressing what is on people's minds and sharing their miseries. host: clarence page on twitter @cptime. his articles are in the chicago tribune and elsewhere.

thanks for being with us. guest: thanks for having me. happy easter. host: still ahead on the program, john gizzi will be joining us to talk about many of the same issues we talked about with clarence page and your calls and comments. up next we will open up those phones to hear from you on any clinical issue you want to talk about. (202) 748-8000 is the line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 is the line for republicans. (202) 748-8002 is the line for independents. ♪ >> all this month watch the cop 21 winning videos from c-span's 2023 studentcam competition. we will air one of our winning documentaries where students are asked to share with their top priorities would be if they were a newly elected member of

congress. watch the top 21 winning studentcam videoumentaries also head over to studentcam.org to watch all winning entries anytime online. ♪ >> edward a. corn has been a lifelong reader of abraham lincoln. in 2002 the published -- in 2020 he published his first book on the president president. just published 0 -- in his second book just published, he dropped back to the beginning of honest abe's national political career. the year was 1860. this time the book is titled "the lincoln miracle." he is the former journal editor

in hope with, massachusetts -- r ehoboth, massachusetts. ♪ >> c-span campaign 2024 coverage is front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meaning greets, speeches -- meet and greets, speeches, and events. c-span now, our free mobile video app. c-span urine filled with view of politics -- your unfiltered view of politics. host: no is your chance to call in on any issue you -- now is

your chance to call in on any issue in politics you care about. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. our first color is from farm bill, virginia -- caller is from farmville, virginia. guest: i want people to -- caller: i want people to look back on the bible. the first commandment is to worship nobody -- no god but one god. when you go to court you have to swear on the bible. when the presidents are being sworn in they have to swear in on the koran and the bible and

the bible. you cannot put religion out of the works of america. you have to look back sometimes and really think. this is what i think america has stopped doing. . host: next is woody are -- william on the independent line. caller: when i first called when brother barack got in office told you bush was b urning. brother moses was called and the church governed all things. i i'm calling out the vatican, every religion, every faith.

to get into the spiritual realm, -- that is the first death to be redirected from above. the governments listen to the religions, which they have no business in. for god so loathed -- not loved! time draws nine and the sheep who are scattered abroad here the shepherd. host: we will hear from john in florida. what do you want to talk about? caller: i was listening to mr. page, and i had one question for him.

why are people of color so angry ? these young boys and girls are in chaos. they are killing each other, which is no good. why are they killing each other and have no respect for life? that is number one. number two, everybody is talking about donald trump not about, resident bided. -- about president biden. president biden has done so much damage and people are taking it for granted he can do what he wants. never mind worrying about trump. trump was the president, and he did a lot of good things. what gives biden the right to go ahead and open the border and tell me that i as a citizen have to wear a mask and have to have

been vaccinated and all of these people are coming in who do not get vaccinated? they don't wear our masks and we do not know what health conditions they have. host: you are feeding back there a little bit. make sure you you do your volume when you get through here to washington journal. president biden, overseas trip this week to ireland. ireland plans a warm welcome for the most irish u.s. president in years. jfk was hailed as a returning hero in wexford, his family's ancestral industrial home. he toward the graves of his quaker forbearers. the four decades after that, barack obama retraced the steps of his great grandfather from

monegal, joking that the obamas need to find theapostrophe that they lost somewhere around the way. his busy five day schedule includes not only meetings in ireland and northern ireland, working to shore up trade and the anglo-irish peace deal of 19 98, but also potential trips to not one but two ancestral homes. onre is o the east coast -- one is on the east coast. several of president biden's distant relatives that say they have no fear of being shunned. even though the president's itinerary has not been announced, they are already planning to celebrate the host: eric, democratic caller.

caller: ronald reagan and trump had the same kind of campaign. trump stole "make america great" from ronald reagan. reagan started his campaign in mississippi where civil rights workers were killed. trump started his by going to places such as waco, texas, and different types of things. the main thing is, it is not trump, it is the majority of white people that voted for reagan. the majority of white people in this country voted for trump. this is the type of government and country these people want. they are deplorable. describe their actions. this is fascism. why don't the democrats investigate jared kushner and steven mnuchin in the billions of dollars they receive from

saudi arabia and the united arab emirates? these people are traders with trump. investigate the trump family business ties. he has also had a contract to build apartments there, jared kushner, and israel! please stop this. host: anita is calling from st. louis on the independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have some things i would like to say that a rather lengthy. i would like to make america great again. in order to do so, i think we need to repeal the law that is citizens united as a corporation is not a citizen. we need to be able to follow the dark money as opposed to it being hidden by the current citizens united law which is the misnomer. i also feel we need a law that

will help us in terms of the emoluments clause. a law is needed stating any president which does not place their assets in a true blind trust within 30 days of taking office shall be removed from office and the vice president is to be installed as president, provided they have placed their assets in a true blind trust, and so on in the line of succession. trump made money, over $150 million, using government agencies. and even more with foreign government officials while in office. he likes to tout he gave his $100,000 salary back. this needs to be addressed. perhaps the lawn needs to state this money must be returned to the government since trump violated the emoluments clause

to obtain the 150 lee dollars from our federal agencies less the money from foreign officials. we need the law to state any subsequent president must repay anything above their legal salary and health care benefits, less portions authorized by congress through subsequent law. trump played golf 330 days while in office, at a cost to the united states citizens. a law is needed that states the president must use camp david or other government owned properties for relaxation and retreat or he or she must bear the cost themselves. trump destroyed government documents when he told a reporter to leave the room in europe when he was with putin. host: several points there.

alamo, california, is next. it is john on the republican line. caller: good morning. i guess i just have a question. i was watching earlier when clarence page was talking. i was texting. i was wondering if a manslaughter charge would fit trump. when you look at the case in new york, georgia, and january 6, when you listen to opinion makers, they talk about how difficult it would be to get these things to a conviction. when you look at just the stuff on, you see on the news where trump says "fight when you go through the capitol, and so on and so forth, he is basically yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.

four people died on january 6. one dies on the following day. it seems like a man's letter charge -- manslaughter charge, he is guilty of inciting a riot. that is what i would like to put out there. anybody was an opinion, i would like to hear it. host: we ask that you call the line that best reflects your political view. it is easter sunday. "politico" reporting on services at the vatican earlier this morning. pope was an easter message highlighting hope. pope francis invoked preferable to ukrainian and russian people, praised nations which welcomed refugees and called on israelis

and palestinians to forge a "climate of trust." they marked christianity's most joyful day with a mass in st. peter's square. easter proclaims the christian belief that jesus rose from the dead after chris deficient -- crucifixion. let's hear from nancy on the democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm reading my thoughts so i do not get wordy or off-topic. anyway, i don't believe religion should influence politics. politics should be based on logical, moral, and patriotic principles. certain christians that place unborn people before living and breathing children and adults, as evidenced by the band on abortion and acceptance is

unacceptable to me, so i do not understand how religious doctrine can be involved in politics. that is what i have to say. host: thanks for that. in spokane, washington, laura, go ahead. caller: i am calling to wish everyone a wonderful easter. most of all, i want to say that those three people killed during the civil rights, one of them was a republican. it was republicans that brought tooth to the civil rights space. we fought against all of those people to get that bill through and they did not want it. whoever that blackeye is -- black guy is saying he made all his money from government, that is his rightful business he signed off on when he came in.

he cannot let the government go for free, you know? anyway. host: next is rebecca in fayetteville, north carolina, democratic caller. go ahead. caller: ok, first of all, no matter what you do and who you work with, each religion tied themselves together. different countries and stuff like that, listen to them. you said the same thing i am saying. i tried to tell a worker that worked with me and stuff, he was a christian. but after he came over and they gave him the job, i was working as a contractor with over 250

immigrants from all over. there were a lot of things different but they never through their religion in my face. that was respected me and i respected them too. i pretty much tell citizens learn their culture before you go over because you might think your stuff is it, but when you start hitting on countries like germany, belgium, saudi, iraq, afghanistan? they are not going to play with you. go on over, leave america while you are walking. host: let's go to rick calling

from pennsylvania on the republican line. go ahead. caller: biden took an oath. is oath was to protect the united states. he opened up the borders which broke his oath and he should be impeached. thank you. host: one of the regular columns in the "washington post" is on history. this morning, the headline is, "how did crucifixion really work ?" they write that the romans appeared to have borrowed crucifixion from the carthaginians who probably built on earlier, brutal punishments used by the assyrians and others in the middle east. the ancient jewish historian reported roman troops crucified as many as 500 jews endangering jewish revolts in the a.d. first

century. they write that the point of crucifixion was to draw out the victim's agony and became the most feared and shameful of all execution methods meted out only two criminals, enslaved, and those accused of treason. they were paraded through the streets as described with jesus in the gospels while mobs jeered . victims within a fixed physical beam -- were then affixed to the cross beam for subsequent execution. read more about that and the british discovery at washingtonpost.com. he is on the democrats line from new york. caller: i want to make the point that for years, i watched our politics just go into this abyss

of you have to have money to be in politics and you have to have money behind you to be in politics. the way we can bring this country back to where the working people that pay our taxes every year and go about our business and want to live a free, good country that we love and are very patriotic too, we have to put a cap on what can be spent running for office. it is absolutely ludicrous that if you want to become a congressman that you spend millions of dollars for a job that pays $168,000 a year or something in that category, it may be more now. the reality is that is ludicrous. you need to get out and talk to the people. our representative, well, she is not my remunerative -- representative anymore, her warchest is huge. somebody likes me who pays his taxes and wants to live in a

free country and it does not matter whether i am gay or go to church or don't go to church, we want to live and be at peace with each other. we give $20, $100, we give what we can afford. these people that can spend millions of dollars control our country. the reason we are in the mess we are now is because people with more money and what happens has great control on their money and how much they make, they control the government. if you want to bring the government back to the people, you don't do anything like january 6 or any of that stupid stuff. you push the congress and senate to do campaign reforms and make the financing so these people have to do it the old politicians did, press the f h esh, talk to you, and find out what we need. i appreciate being able to talk to you. host: next is shirley.

caller: i got a recording telling me everything was supposed to be so perfect. it is a recording. i understand that you are a television show. but no one talks about hunter biden and the millions he got from moscow and the ukraine. joe biden was vice president. and help president biden plagiarized from the kennedys -- and how president biden plagiarized from the kennedys. i just want equal. i don't think we get that in the news. as far as abortion, i was in favor of whatever you have to do to save a 15-year-old. then i found out they do late-term abortions. i tell you, if someone is going to agree to abortion, they need to go there and see the stages

of it. have you ever been to a late-term abortion where they stab the baby and they had while it is being delivered? host: one more call, jack on the independent line in florida. caller: yes. i would like to talk about afghanistan. one of the main reasons they went to afghanistan is to stop terrorism. as we all know, afghanistan is 99% muslim. of course, most of the terrorists in the world are muslims. that being the case, we went over there with lots of dollars and decided to help reform the government. these people in control of the government were muslims.

but they were very happy to go along with the americans coming over with american dollars. for the most part, we did very well stopping terrorism. it had reached a point where it was decided by trump and seiden -- biden that we should get out of there as soon as we possibly could. that being the case, we pulled out. as soon as we did, it reverted back to a terroristic country by the taliban. host: that is it for open forum. next, we will be joined by newsmax white house correspondent john gizzi to talk about the trump indictment,

campaign 2024, other political news, and your calls and comments. ♪ >> ♪ >> all this month, watch the winning videos from c-span's 2023 studentcam documentary contest. every morning before "washington journal," we will air one of our winning documentaries. watch the top 21 winning studentcam documentaries all this month at 6:50 a.m. eastern on c-span and watch all winning entries anytime online.

>> ♪ >> edward acorn has been a long lot -- lifelong reader of abraham lincoln. in 2020, he published his first book on the 16th president subtitled "the momentous second inauguration of abraham lincoln." in his second book, he dropped back to the beginning of unsaved -- honest abe's national political career. this time, the book is titled "the lincoln miracle." >> on this episode of footnotes plus -- book notes plus.

>> c-span's 2024 campaign coverage is your first row seat with announcements, speeches, and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network come our free mobile app, or anytime online. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined next by john gizzi, white house correspondent for newsmax. also there chief political columnist. here with us to talk about political issues of the day and the past week. let's start with wisconsin.

the supreme court race in wisconsin but there were other races that day in wisconsin as well. your headline after that, wisconsin gop clings to super majority in the state senate. that was a win for republicans in wisconsin. you were talking about the money spent in this of fort race. -- supreme court race. guest: $41 million went into it. i know at least half of that was in the supreme court race, the most spent in a supreme court contest in history, so obviously, there is a significant to this contest which gave democrats a 4-3 majority on the high court of the badger state. one other thing is that the lady

who won on the democratic side campaigned unabashedly on issues such as abortion and other matters. historically, candidates for the supreme court in wisconsin and elsewhere just talk about the resumes. they never say how they would rule on a particular issue. she did not exactly say that, but came awfully close. host: did her opponent also campaign that way? guest: not exactly, no. he was very bitter in defeat in the end, as we saw on television. he really did not say how he would vote could others look back on his record and saw that he was a polar opposite of the triumphant justice. i might add that she won by a margin of 11 percentage points in a turnout of half of the eligible voters. host: you mentioned it gives a

4-3 majority in the court for democrats. why is that an important issue in the state of wisconsin and potentially nationally? guest: let's look at wisconsin first. this is the home of act 10, the measure of former governor scott walker that he sought to passage -- saw to passage and collective bargaining that required nearly all state employees to contribute toward retirement. this was a way to save the pension system from going under and being insolvent. now, that could be under fire. previously, public employees paid 0% of their retirement and health care. and also, certainly the state's

legislation dealing with abortion which goes back to the 19th century is going to be under fire. you will have a lot that has been enacted in the past, and particularly under the last republican governor, that would go down. most importantly, the redistricting for congress could be upended completely in the new plan put in. this is important. we realize the u.s. house of representatives has the most tight split since 1930. host: the other implication could be in the presidential race in 2024. in 2020, the wisconsin supreme court came within a vote of ordering a recount in that state. guest: yes, it did. again, we have to wait and see what the next presidential election will be like.

but four-three -- but four--three could have widespread significance in a lot of areas. host: let's talk about 2024. what you think it means that the former president has been indicted? election 2024 just over a year away. guest: i find eerie parallels to what is going on in india right now where you saw a judiciary that was very simpatico to the prime minister come down hard on the leader of the congress party who is the son, grandson, and great-grandson of past prime ministers. in the past, it has fueled sympathy for him, someone people thought of as a weak candidate and just the bearer of a name is

now reaching martyrdom and the political comeback is rampant. his sister who is the general secretary of the party has been talk of as a future leader. so it is now, donald trump, even among people who did not want him to be a candidate, has new sympathy within the republican party. governor desantis, seen as trump without the tweets, is now raising money at a rapid pace. host: what is it mean for governor desantis -- what does it mean for governor desantis and nikki haley trying to get their message out and raise money as well in this cycle? guest: they are both doing quite well at raising money. you mentioned governor desantis. i saw him in pennsylvania last weekend.

at a version of cpac in pennsylvania. it had the biggest crowd in its 34-year history. more than 800 people, 63 reporters, and a roomful of people who want to volunteer for the governor. he is doing well right now. host: our guest is john gizzi. we welcome your calls and comments. the republican line, democrats,, independents, and others. the indictment this past week of the former president donald trump by the manhattan district attorney, were you surprised at this particular case was the first to issue an indictment? guest: i personally expected the georgia race involving his call to the georgia secretary of

state to be the first one up in the docket, so yes, it did surprise me, particularly with all the delays in the grand jury. i did not see it coming. host: do these indictments further complicate his road to return to be president? guest: we have had other politicians who have been indicted, tried, and come out stronger. texas governor rick perry, for example, former congressman tom delay did leave politics but was completely vindicated. again, it is not uncommon to see people rise up from the ashes of indictment. now, i don't know what the courts will do. i don't know the timing on this. as for the nomination next time, i'm going to pass on questions

for a simple reason. the calendar for the republican nomination process, which states go first and the process they use, a primary, convention, or a caucus, none of that has been settled. democrats have settled theirs. republicans have not several -- settled their calendar or process for next time. host: let's go first to chicago and hear from robert on the independent line. you are on with john gizzi. caller: thank you very much. i consider myself independent. i did lean right in the last election. i see the republican party having a huge issue politically with the abortion issue. in race after race throughout the country, they are getting beaten over the head with this. do you see any way the republican party can ever use

this issue to gain back some of their power and influence? guest: well, there are a lot of issues out there to discuss. i would say certainly the issue you mentioned, abortion, has been a factor in special elections and last november's on the congressional races. on the other hand, it should be pointed out that republicans are just two seats shot of a majority in the senate and did take over the house of representatives and elect a republican speaker, although it took a little work. there will be other elections coming up and we will see. i also have to say that what is occurring in special elections now may be totally in the dim past by the time 2022 comes around, so i would just hold off on that before you make judgment

on it. host: another call from chicago, rick on the democrats' line. go ahead. you are on with john gizzi. caller: the question i have for the press is, when are you going to take [indiscernible] the states following trump through being called fake media for six years now and is still pushing the big lie. the question is, when are you going to start to ask the question, when will he be put up for insurrection? what is going on in new york city is just fluff. it is becoming a disgrace the house judiciary is calling to get their feet in the boats in the middle of it. host: ok. the future of the fourth estate rick wants to know about. guest: isn't that a conflict of

interest question? rick, the fourth estate is going to do just fine in this country. i would say the fact that we have cable channels, the fact that you have the internet, a disparate series of reporting is available to people quite easily these days that one can get different opinions. my concern about the future of the fourth estate is too many will choose to readjust articles and opinions with which they agree. it is something i have fought against vigorously on a personal level. "the financial times" is a publication i have disagreements with but i read it first thing in the morning all the time and find different dew points from around the world and reasons for it. host: how do you get readers,

others, to change that habit? guest: change the habit? host: of just reading one source of news. guest: i would leave this to the madison avenue, today's "mad men" and how they promote a particular news site and find something catchy to get people. the important thing is to just get people to read something they disagree with. host: the republican line, the line for democrats, and for independents and others. our guest is john gizzi. morgan is in reading, pennsylvania, democrats line. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. do you have any concerns it seems like the republican party is being a friend and enabler of

the white racist culture in this country? that these are being really connected? we see how a lot of these white racist scripts -- groups are registering as republicans. do you have any concerns about how that looks to all of the people of color in this country who would believe in republicans, what they stand for politically, but are turned off by this association they feel is going on with republicans and the white racist groups in this country? no more than i did when the white racist groups were part of the democratic party. and the segregationists were, almost to a person, democrats. it turns out votes for democratic presidents from the 1930's until recently, they were

finally beaten from within the party when president johnson really put the credit party on the side of civil rights and took on some of the powerful figures in his own party. i have a feeling the republicans are dealing with groups that fit into the category you mentioned. they have nowhere near the power segregationists did in the democratic party in past years, and they will be dealt with. host: charges of racism were raised with the expulsion this past week of the two african american democratic members of the tennessee house of representatives. i want to play some of that. justin jones had this to say from the floor of the tennessee house. [video clip] >> to my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, i want to say that you have the power, you

have the votes to do what you were going to do today, but i'm going to let you know that when i came to this well i was fighting for your children and grandchildren, too. those here will cast a vote for expulsion, i was fighting for your children too to live free from the terror of school shootings and mass shootings. when i walked up to this well on thursday, i was thinking about the thousands of students who were outside demanding that we do something. in fact, many of their signs said "do something." do something, do something. that was there only ask of us, to respond to their grief, to respond to the traumatized community. but in response to that, the first action of this body is to expel members for calling for

common sense gun legislation. we were calling for a ban on assault weapons. and the response of this body is to assault democracy. this is a historic day for tennessee but a very dark day for tennessee because it will signal to the nation that there is no democracy in this state. host: john gizzi, do you think the house republicans in the tennessee house overstepped when they expelled those members? guest: yes, i do. if you look at the history of expulsion and other legislative bodies, you realize it is a very rare situation. the u.s. house of representatives since the civil war has only expelled three members. other states have not gone in that direction. i remember covering the

expulsion of a republican state senator in michigan 15 years ago for bad behavior, including bar fights. he'd had a long history of this kind of behavior. they had been warned about it and finally did it as a last straw. it seems in this case reprimand, censure, or even docking part of their pay would have been more appropriate in they used the last resort as the first resort. host: i guess put your political columnist hat on for this one, why do you think the house leadership thought it was necessary? what is the political advantages they may have thought in doing this? guest: i was in touch with oscar brock, the state chairman, and he stated he felt this was arrogance of the super majority.

sometimes when one has absolute power, one thinks he can do whatever he wants. and that is a case of it. i will say one thing. people who see expulsion asked the slippery slope that it is often note that when people are expelled or denied their seats, they just come back in the special election stronger than ever. adam clayton powell, a black congressman from new york, was denied his seat in 1967, won the special election while on vacation in another country. we have seen other cases like this where they are out, they come back, and they are paid more attention to by the press. i would say justin jones and his colleague will get a lot of attention from now on. host: san antonio, texas, kevin, on the independent line,

welcome. caller: hello. i was wondering if he could explain to me why the rnc held a political conference in hungary, the country was a dictator, what is the purpose of the rnc holding a political conference over there? and has he ever heard the phrase, "nazimax network" at the company he works for? has he ever heard that phrase describing the company he works for? host: john gizzi? guest: where do i start. the answer is no, no, and no on that. i have never heard that phrase. i believe you are speaking of the cpac conference, not the republican national committee conference, the conservative

political action conference did have a meeting in hungary. that is entirely different from the republican national committee. i go to most of the rnc meetings. they are held throughout the country annually. i believe there are three a year. they have never had one overseas. i would also say on hungary it is not ruled by a dictator but someone who has won four straight elections. you are talking about prime minister viktor orban. host: next, tony in tampa, republican caller, hi. caller: happy easter. host: happy easter. caller: thank you. mr. gizzi, i would like to ask, why did the republican media let trump off the hook so much, especially fox news, when he

promised at every rally to build the wall? he had 38 seats in the house. he had 40 seats in the senate. they had the money budgeted to him in the first quarter, and he passed on it. yet not a word from fox news. how come fox news let him off the hook when he did not get rid of obamacare and go to the savings plan you could have for health care? and the crime bill that he gave the democrats got nothing for, and ever since that crime bill was signed, everybody has been getting out of jail at will. even that nasa built which did nothing but unites the mexican workforce and all of the union dues were going to the democratic party.

i don't understand how the republican party, none of them, none of them, not one of them ever said boo. with all the spending, his son-in-law being in the white house writing these bills for him. host: you put a couple of things before us. john gizzi? guest: where do we start on this? i have to say that while i cannot speak for another network at all, the positions on illegal immigration and health care, to a degree, he achieved some success but obviously not all. is go back to mexico policy was working. it was something halting the illegal immigrant tide at the

border. of course, it ended. it was not everything people wanted. but remember, when congress is divided evenly, it is always a risk to pass something. case in point, i covered the replacement of the affordable care act with the american care act, the alternative of the trump administration. and it failed by one vote in the senate. the late john mccain casting the deciding vote. , no president can determine what congress will do although they can work hard and get results as ronald reagan and bill clinton both showed in their initial tax bills. host: 202-748-8001 if you are a republican caller. for others, 202-748-8002.

from california, does mr. gizzi see any movement in the house to raise the debt ceiling? guest: i think it will probably happen in the end. i have always wished congress would not wait until the last minute when the full faith and credit of the united states would be in danger to deal with this situation and perhaps do it early. but in the end, as is always the case, congress may let it go three days or so but it will probably extend the debt ceiling because the ramifications of letting it go would be not good for the united states. host: next up robin on the independent line in schenectady, new york. caller: thanks for taking my call. this will sound like a staged call.

what do you think of new york state and the mayor of new york deciding to lock up the homeless in psychiatric wards again? guest: this could possibly raise a fresh case in the supreme court overturning the 1976 decision which essentially opened up the mental institutions in the united states and ended the arrest, not really arrest, the detailing of homeless people to institutions for treatment. of course, the courts essentially opened up the institutions that year and we have seen a rise in the homeless problem. prior to that, you would have

homeless go to institutions, be judged on their condition, and then treated. this is when it was considered a mental illness. the mayor is clearly pointing us in the direction of revisiting that case. host: staying on the supreme court, this past week saw the republican of propublica on some of the trips taken by justice clarence thomas. afforded to him by the billionaire harlan crow, republican donor. what was your view of the reporting and the response of justice thomas? guest: i think yesterday's "wall street journal" explained it succinctly that he followed all the rules that had been in place at the time regarding disclosure , that he sought opinion on this, and he acted accordingly. he is not required to list the

trips or the gifts. that said, that law may change soon. i would simply say if i were in a position where i had a target on my back for much of the national media, i would revealed this stuff even when not required by law. this being sunday and a holiday, quoting thessalonians 22: 24, avoid the appearance of all evil. host: next up is mary in indianapolis on the democrats line. caller: hello, good morning. mr. gizzi, i want to tell you that i appreciate some of the comments you have made but i think you have been a little inaccurate and off the mark when you are saying the republican party has not changed tremendously and taken the place of the former segregationists

who are the democratic party. but they would not call themselves segregationists today. i certainly remember and perhaps you do the situation in virginia where black children were not allowed to have any public school education for two years when the white citizens took their children and created private schools and had their children in the private schools. black children had nothing. the segregationist laws were still there and they were taken over by the republicans, the former democrats, who became republicans. i think you have all done the same thing about clarence thomas. i happen to be in african american so i am not saying this as someone who would be biased against him. my feeling is you are not telling the people, 2004, 2005,

he had revealed some things in an interview. then when he had the mark, as you put it, on his back, and has been in the sights of so many who do not like him, he revealed quite a bit of his information then about his private affairs, but then he stopped, as he does about almost anything could this man does not tell the truth, in my opinion, about any number of things. we only have to remember his so-called best friend was the gentleman who died who was well-known in conservative circles and on the radio, rush limbaugh. he has said that. he has said that was his best friend. i think either married rush limbaugh and his wife or something of that kind.

this republican party is not the republican party of my youth, of even 20 years ago. i happen to be 85 years of age. host: ok, mary, we will hear from our guest. guest: prince edward county, i don't know the specifics of their local ordinances, but i do know segregation in virginia has been basically wiped out. it has taken longer in some areas. it took briefly in some others. you have to remember for all of the clashes over integration in institutions of learning going back to central high school in r little rock and some universities, eventually, the desegregation of the public school system took place under

republican president richard nixon and there was no incident at all. i say give the republicans some credit in the area of integration and civil rights. regarding justice thomas, i have to say, i will go back to what i said earlier, some of the personal nuances and things we talk about, in just talking about his ethics, he has followed the letter of the law so far. host: that to the presidential race on the republican side, ross in california says trump will always have a larger base. the santos -- ron desantis is a long way from it. nikki haley will never make president. guest: i don't know which states

will have primaries, choose delegates by convention, or the order in which they will be held. the state of new hampshire has a law that if one states holds its delegates election process ahead of the last seats in the new hampshire primary, they are instructed to move it back. you and i could be here reporting the results of the new hampshire primary christmas eve. host: joe biden's latest approval rating, the polling average from real clear politics is the approval rating is at 23.9 percent, down 9.1%. what do you think the biggest challenge facing joe biden getting reelected is? guest: i think it is convincing people in the early part of his ninth decade he has the vigor to

complete another four years in the white house. that will come up not suddenly or in whispers but very publicly. right now, he has two obscure primary challengers, albeit one with the famous name. that should not be a problem for him. again, the national press will record just how much these underfunded candidates draw against him, and that will be very telling about his chances. host: we will go next to michelle in los angeles, democrats line. michelle, go ahead. caller: good morning. i just wanted a comment on ben barnes and john connally sabotaging the iran hostage talks. also, a comment, we did not get

to hear about those subverting democracy. are there any present-day ones that you can think of other than the propublica debacle? host: all right. guest: not sure i completely understand your second question. as for your first question, ben barnes said he was accompanying former governor john connally when he that was leaders in the middle east and told them to tell the iranian leadership, the theocracy, not to release the hostages while the presidential election was going on, that they would get a better deal with ronald reagan. if true, this is something governor connally did on his

own, although ben barnes believes he did this to become secretary of defense in a reagan administration. i also found it amusing he would be talking to and worsen. -- anwar sadat. what influenced the people he talked to i question severely. finally, the reagan campaign had nothing to do with it. they learned about all of this, according to mr. barnes, when john connally told reagan's campaign manager about it and he said fine. i might add john connally never become secretary of defense. ronald reagan offered him a job of secretary of energy but he

preferred to go out in the development business. host: next is ronald from colorado on the independent line. caller: the republicans did not have a policy called the affordable care act. john mccain voted to keep the affordable care act. guest: excuse me. caller: thank you. guest: i beg your pardon. i was there when gary collins, then top economic advisor to president trump, and tom price, the secretary of health and human services, unveiled the american care act, their alternative to the affordable care act. in fact, it was 60 pages long and in the spirit of repeal and

replace. it was something that would go automatically and would keep people on different health care plans on it without interruption. they contrasted its brevity with the 1000-page-plus affordable care act at the time. so, indeed, there was an alternative plan. now, we could argue they could have done a better job publicizing it or advertising it. but that is not your point. they certainly did have an alternative plan. host: i want to go back to the indictment of the former president. house speaker tim mccarthy tweeted the manhattan d.a. has irrevocably damaged our country in an attempt to interfere with the presidential election as he routinely releases violent

criminals. the american people will not -- i don't have the rest of the tweet. there has been some talk the house committees make it mr. brag -- make it mr. brac to testify in front of them in the coming weeks. guest: i have a feeling that would involve a subpoena and alvin bragg would just refuse to honor the subpoena. we get into this playground type back and forth. that is all it will come to in the long run. he will decline to testify as a lot of public officials do. if they want to pursue him for contempt of congress, so be it. host: in silver springs, maryland, go ahead. caller: i am wondering what the

tax implications are of justice thomas getting millions of dollars of free travel. to me, those would be gifts which are taxable income at the county, state, and federal level. i am wondering if there are charges the attorney generals of the state and county he lives in can bring against justice thomas. host: all right. guest: i truly doubt that. like a lot of people in his position, justice thomas almost certainly employs an accountant and possibly a tax lawyer to deal with questions like that. i would say he has probably resolved that years ago. host: john gizzi nt political correspondent -- john gizzi, chief political correspondent for newsmax, thanks so much and

happy easter. guest: happy easter to you. thank you. host: that will do it for the easter sunday program. we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern and hope that you are, too. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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