featuring an encore presentation -- preseation of q&a. tonight, tv and radio broadcaster author of driving the green book talks about the annual travel ide used bmany african-americans during the jim crow europe that listed safe hotels, restaurants, gas stations and other businesses. he visited a dozen of those sites to learn me about the bookhistory and lasting impact. that's tonight at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. >> all this month, what's the top 20 winning videos from c-span's 2020 three studentcam video documentary competitio every morning at 650 eastern

before "washington journal" we will air one of the winning documentaries where students can share their top priorities if they were newly elected mbers of congress. watch the winning studentcam documenty all this month a 6:50 a.m. eastern on c-span and go oveto studentcam.org to watch all winning entries anytime online. we are going to take a discussion on the refugee system. join us as josh smith from the utah state university. thank you for your time this morning. guest: it's great to be here. host: can you tell us about the center itself, especially what it does in the space of refugees. guest: it's a research center based utah state university. it's a great place to do research. we get to decide the topics and dive into those.

i get to say refugee policy -- we need dire reforto continue. we have taken as few as 25,000 people. we used to taken 200,000 people. there is a lot of work to do to rebuild that system. those of the projects we are working on here. host: why the decrease in numbers from where you started? guest: the refugee system is built out of world war ii. we eablished a system in 1980 for the president gets to decide how many refugees to admit. it can be subject to big up and down flows depending on the preferences of the president. president trump lowered the number of refugees admitted. we closed about one out of three resettlement offices.

the problem today is even as we try to rebuild the system, it is more difficult to build it back up. last year, we only took an 25,000 refugees. as of march, we have settled about 18,000 people. we hit a new milestone, we settled more than 6000 in march. it's going to take a long time to build a backup to our prior levels. we are finally getting to these milestones again host: i know it's academic, what is a refugee? guest: there is a fear of persecution because of race or religion or because they belong to a social group. a lot come from syria because of the conflict. these are the kinds of people when we talk about the american dream or the promise on the statue of liberty.

these are the people we are talking about. they are most in need of a hand up. the gat part about refugees is we get to provide a new home to people who are suffering some of the worst in the world. that's an exciting thing abt the system. host: this is the state department definition, someone who has a fear of persecution on account of their race, religion, social group, political opinion. if they are coming to the united states, do they come directly? are there other paies involved? guest: there is a lot of vetting. they are the most vetted immigrants of all. not only does the u.n. -- there refugee group refer them to the u.s., the u.s. does its own vetting.

that is great news for all the communities. they just started their own agency. i am glad to bring more of those people here to give them a new home in one of the most beautiful places on earth. host: what is involved in the vetting process? guest: background checks you would expect, they do identity establishment. if you fled your country, you may not have grabbed your so security card or birth certificate. a lot of work into establishing this person, here is a record of where they've been. they get matched with a global area, anywhere else in the country.

host: i suppose we will answer questions. if you want to askur guest -- he serves as a research manager. what case would you make for the united states improving the system? guest: the central problem has been up and down. what we should do is take a needs-based approach. the u.n. produces a category. our proposal is we should take one in 10 each year of those people who are designated most in need. this insulates the resettlement process from the kinds of political winds of whver is in

office. that offers an opportunity to make sure we are honoring that american ideal, being the city on the hill. just doing that, we'd take about 160,000 people year. that brings us back in line with the early years of 1980 when we had the refugee program. that would be a great way to start building backup our system. host: if you're familiar with the resettlement process, you n tell us your experience. you can call us at (202) 748-8003. you recently wrote a paper on this. one of the comrisons you make is how the united states deals with taking in

guest: germany is the most striking single example. in 2013 they took one million people in. it is a testament to what you can do with a concerted effort local communities as well as federal or a public leader who says we can do this. there is a lot of opportunity for us to take more and f people to integrate into local communities. canada is much smaller. once you adjust for our different population siz, the u.s. takes lot fewer. that is a disappointment. when you think of america you think of this history of immigration. you think of the statue of liberty. this is a place of refuge. one way we can start building back up and start to rival some of those countries that take a lot of refugees as well. host: is the process different to account for more people coming in? guest: the same thing about that differt process, we are starting to steal the good

ideas. the u.s. just got that started. the u.s. welcoming allies program that was bringing in people from ukraine as well as people from afghanistan, those are really promising ways to first of all, people are bringing -- people are putting up their own money to bring in refugees. it is a lower cost for everyone. there is also a way to expand refugee resettlement. back in president trumps administration he asked governors, do you want refugees? many stas said, yes, we want to take in more refugees. utah was one of those as well. there is a lot of opportunities to start allowing more private choice. allowing more people who want to sponsor refugees, allong more states who want to sponsor refugees. extending that private resettlement option we have already started, but also

creating a state-based program. host: before we take calls, mr. smith you have probably heard these comparisons aa recent hearing where republican senator drew comparisons through the refugee process and the asym process that happens along the southern border. i want play you a little bit of wha he said and get your response to that. [video clip] >> the u.s. refugee program is not the solution to the cha and the crisis we see on our southern border. in january president biden announced a new measure to address the border crisis, including a provision that would welcome up to 20,000 refugees from latin america and caribbean countries doing -- countries during the fiscal year 2023 to fiscal year 2024. this new strategy includes other components as well. st of which i believe camouflage the severity of the problem we are experiencin let's be clear, increasing

regee resettlement is not the solution to what we see on the border hapning today. in each of the last two fiscal years, u.s. custom border protection encountered 1.3 llion migrants from mexico and northern triane company -- northern triangle country. this is a drop in the bucket. it will not alleviate strain caed by the crent crisis on our southern borr and it will not prevent migrants with weak or nonexistent asylum claims from unlawfully crossing the border. host: mr. smith, what did you think of those comparisons? guest: senator john cornyn is onto something. the refugees system is completely separate from the border crossing challenges the u.s. faces right now. if we really want to fix those problems, i grew up in rur area. there are more towns than people.

one of the things you learned when you see water flowing through the irrigation ditch, it is flowing out, overflowing onto the sides, that is because there is something blocking and irrigation ditch. to fix that, clear pathways so that water flows through and reaches where you want it to. i am in favor of boer security measures. we call it border security plus. the plus matters a lot. no one is against hiring more border patrol to make sure people who are coming across are here to do good and not to do harm. what we need to also do is clear out that ditch by creating worker programs. there is a really clear findings over and over again in immigration research that e load doesn't do it. you need the full recipe in order to get order at the border. there is a lot of opportunity investing not just in border patrol or spending, but also

start creating new pathways for immigrants to come in because it is totally true. we hid record numbers of border crossing last year. it is a big challenge. that is going to mean for leaders like john cornyn, is to step up and find ways we can get really good immigration reforms through that does both of those things. provides immigration security through border spending and enforcement as well as creating new pathways so that instead of trying to just show up and hope they don't get caught, register for a simple guestworker program and can come to thu.s. that way. host: a discussion with josh smith from the center of growth and opportunity research. robert on the republican line starts us off. go ahead. caller: my comment would be, is this a program supported by big

business and big farming in regards to cheap labor? luting the wages in the united states? the more people you have, the more wages are going to be paid sooner or later. we have seen this where there is an influx of immigrants that come across. so you have got all these people who are willing to do jobs a lot cheaper. is this a ways of means to make it easier for people to come here and work? i know there is needs in the form of to do all that work. is this economics 101 or is it more about not having to pay people a living wage and all that stuff? host: that is robert in illinois. guest: you are totally right we should be concerned about the kinds of wage effects immigrants might have it when they come

into an area. programs like the farm labor, guestworkers who, through agricultural guestworker program, they were subjecto wage requirements. u.s. government already provides those kinds of simple protections. you're not just paying minimum wage. you have got to pay that, plus some additional amount. and that is the kind of policy we can have if congre passed some new immigration reform. we could have guestworker form -- guestworker programs that meets the needs. but also provides options for people to come to the country legally. the great part about that, this is the second order of that. when you bring people here, they have got to go get their car fixed, they have got to go get their hair cut, they shop at local grocery stores. it is not just a single shiftn supply of labor. there is also a shift in demand. it has got to hire more people.

it has got to staff more people. two stories in that. there is the complementary increase in demand. economics 101 answer is it depends on which of those wins out. most evidence says immigration increases u.s. wages by buyback demand affect. or bringing someone who can work on the farm while maybe you fix the tractor and do more mechanicalork. there is a lot of of opportunity to make the world a better place. we are better together with immigrants. st: nadia, in virginia. independent line. caller: mr. smith, you talked about using a formula related to the u.n. identification of refugees. to identify coming into the u.s.. i had another proposal.

i believe our foreign policy in the last several decades has brought death and destruction on countries. particularly middle eastern countries and we have yet to atone, provide reparations, do anything significant. for example the iraqi people, afghan the people. we decided to declare war on two countries and destroy the infrastructures, and those countries are still in chaos. i would like you to pine on identifying refugees based on doing atonement for what we have done and the results. and my second question is, how do we get the conseatives in america, the republicans to acknowledge that immigration,

refugees are a net benefit to this country? because data doesn't move them. no matter how many times you tell them, they do less crimo, -- they do less crime, population growth is stagnant and we need the immigration to grow our country, to pay social security, how do we move these people to understand that? because those talking points do not impact them. host: ok. that is nadia in virginia. guest: the first step is to think about, we owe special debt. one of the things you start writing in public place or talking in public space about immigration policy, people pop into your inbox. one of the men who jumped into mine and said, hi, is a man who

is not safe in afghanistan. he and i have been talking for about six or nine months now about the challenges he faces in afghanistan. he and his family have to move a lot because the taliban is looking out for people like him. people like him mea people who worked with the u.s. military. he is stuck there, not because he hasn't been approved by the people in charge of admission. he has what they call chief admission approval. he is stuck in afghanistan because he cannot go get his fingerprinting done in the country. there is not an open u.s. embassy. the next step he would have to go through befe being issued u.s. visa is he would have to go get those biometrics done. so he is stuck. we need to do much more to work on these kinds of issues. you were an asset to the u.s. military in afghanistan, how can we get y out of there?

going on in congress right now is the afghan justment act. if you have a chief of justice approval you should be car to come into the country and finish the rest of the screening that is one of the kinds of changes that needs to happen to repay the people who helped us. i am no foreign policy expert so i will speak and -- i won't speak in general to foreign policy. but certainly in syria and the large parts of refugees who come today are from syria. there is a lot of work we can do there. regards to your second question, the reason i chose to work on refugee policies specifically is because it is a place where everyone agrs. the hearing we played a portion of, that was chair senator padilla, a democt from california. if you go and listen to that hearing, you're not gng to hear much grandstanding.

there is no political speeches. there is a commentary about the value of refugees. eryone agrees. we are looking for solutions. we hope these kinds of public appearances we make as resources that's as resource -- as researchers provide solutions to be able to bridge the gap between republicans and democrats. most of our immigration policies come down to problems within the law. we have to have congress act. host: here is senator alex palla talking about reductions to those admissions. [video clip] >> president trumpttempted to shut off all points of entry. his efforts included aggressively reducing refugee admissions. slashing the total number admitted to around 2500. 30,000 and finally just under 12,000 in his final three years in offic because of these dramatic cuts,

134 resettlement officers throughout -- offices throughout the country were shut without justify the cost to staff. during that time conditions only worsened for millions of refugees feing persecution. and the covid-19 pandemic created additional unprecedented challenges in processing refugees. as in person screenings were delayed and increased the demand for flight made refugee travel more difficult. while the biden administration has made efforts to rebuild and scale e refugee program back up, the trump era cuts and the culmination of covid processing challenges have made it difficult to return to t typical historic annual admissions numbers. host: you can see that for hearing on our website at c-span.org. let's hearrom mike, republican from texas.

caller: from 1924 to 1965, we had no immigration. the president at that time, we had an opportunity for people who had come to the united states by way of immigraon to assimilate. we had expectations of them. among them was to speak englh. i know that the people who come here, they love their parents and their families as much as we love ours. i get that. we cannot save the world. the very people you are embracing and bringing here are exactly the people who are well suited to reform the nation they lead -- theyeave, the tyranny they leave. how is it these countries, i know ts is a different topic of immigration, 165 immigrants have come from 165 different nations around the world. when does it end? when do we control what is here?

because we have costs. dental care, medical care, housing, education. do you think these people are going to land on the moon in the next 10 years? i don't think they will. i think they need to get assimilated with what we have here now. we assume these costs, we are gog to print the money. we have so many costs, so many things going on in our nation right now. our quality of life is being destroyed. guest: i agree with a lot of what you're saying. there is a great need for people to integrate into their communities. the good news on refugees, not only do they integrate quickly, we get them into jobs, they start their own families, they become americans quite qckly. but we also see they are huge economic contributors. because of that they actually pay in more to the u.s. then they take out in terms of the fiscal cost. for example, they pay for their own flight to come to the u.s..

so that is an example that really, yes, we have cause problems. look at social security, here is another cause problem. social security predicted to be bankrupt in 2034. that is a problem. we are not going to be able to pay out those benefits. a part of that problem is because we don't have enough people coming into the country. i want to encourage everyone to see immigration as an asset fixing those problems. a book came oulast year, streets of gold, details a great storybout immigration and immigration assimilation. the rate of immigtion haven't changed that much. there is a lot of reasons to be optimistic. i am totally for these kinds of concerns because america is the greatest place on earth. but i also think immigration has always been a part of that. looking back at the 1920's act, i don't know any evidence it improved assimilation bas. there is a lot of reason to think it ruced our ability to

integrate immigrants in the long run. there is a lot of options for us to take this integration and go up a notch. one thing we have done research on is english language trading. english language is a great way for immigrants to integrate into the mmunity. because now they can go to the grocery store and order more easily. think about public schools. if you set in. teacr conference and you have probably seen someone who is interpreting for peer -- for parents not able to speak english, those kinds of ways are going to improve the integration of immigrants on economic terms but they are also improving on cultural terms to interact and become friends with everyone in the country and become americans, fundamentall host: when someone comes to the united states as a refugee, how much federal support do they get? guest: i forget the total amount

of the cost of them coming in. but the net amount, over 20 years that they pay back in access to what they are given in support is about $2000. there is new evidence from michael clemens, a researcher at george mason university, he sold that she shows we have been underestimating the benefits of refugees because we haven't been accounting for the demand affect. when you bring people here and they start working, that is also the benefit of u.s. natives as ll. we are clearly in the black on refugees in terms of the spending we have. it is a great investment that pays back more than what we are payingn. host: do they get a stipend of some type, do they get health care of some type, what are the benefits when they come to your united states -- come to the united states? guest: they receive some

financial support at the beginning but the current programs are geared to quickly get them into t workforce so that they can become contributors. if you talk with refugees, that is what they will tell you. they show up here, yes, they are in need, they had to leave their home country, but they were assets. when you talk to them, they will tell you, i was a journalist back in afghanistan, i was a doctor, i was aurse, i was a lawyer. an iraqipplicant who came to the u.s. gets here, looks around and says, what does my community need? i am going to start a grocery store. because of that he employed at six or seven people nning this small corner shop. that is really the story of immigration. that is an asset to the country. people bring prosperity. they look around and say, what we need to do? and they do it. host this is from warren in

ohio, decrats line. caller: this is jack. i have a couple of questions. i know you guys are really happy about all these people coming in the country. but i notice youuys never say anything about black america with our reparations. these people a pouring in my neighborhood's left and right, leapfrging all black americans, but you guys never put anybody like doc or claude anderson on c-span to expand -- to explain the black means that we need. you guys are not listening to us in black america. we need reparations for ourselves swe can rebuild o country and our neighborhoods. where do y'all get off saying this is ok? this is detrimental to the black community. host: mr. smith? thank you, caller. guest: thank you for calling in. i don't study racial issues directly so i don't want to speak to those.

what i can say, sure, we should do more. right now congress is debating what to do with a program called tre adjusted assistance. that program is to help people who may have lost their job because of international trade. a factory moves out of the u.s., how do we help thoseeople? tradadjustment was supposed to do that. it doesn't seem it has de a good job of that. a desperate need for more people toay, we need this kind of investmentn communities in so way. we need to help people who are losing out. trade adjustmentssistance should be the start. we need to find ways to do that. i encourage the utah workforce development office, a great resource here. i am sure every state has something like it. there is a lot of opportunities for people to find help. i agree with the caller, we should be doing even more. host: how much is private industry stepping up to the plate as far as assisted industries