>> washington journal is next with your calls and comments live on the air. an associated press pentagon correspondent tara copp. see here -- government execs senior correspondenteric katz. washington journal. host: somewhere between the covenant school shootings in nashville before easter and monday's mass shooting in louisville here cdc data showing gun violence will

increase 50%. there have been 146 school shootings this year. meaning there have been more mass shootings than days in 2023. while grieving for the victims becomes an all-too-familiar pattern, so too becomes any action to stem gun violence. come to mind is on views on any issue seems impossible these days. no issue has such deadl consequences. good morning. it is wednesday, april 12, 2023. this isashington journal. our first convertion this morning, is compromise possible on gun reform? if you are a gun owner and you would like 2:0 a.m., (202) 748-8000. non-grown -- nonun oers, (202) 748-8001. if you have experienced gun violence or someone close to you, (202) 748-8002.

you are texting, (202) 748-8003. we are on twitter andacebook atw j. compromise is poible, at ou think it? should be? we wilhear from t current gornor of the state. bill lee. and we wi hear from t gornor of kentucky and the mayor of louisville. most of all we would like to hear from u on gun reform in our first hour. this is pure research, gun deaths among children and teens rose 50%. the numberf teens and children killed by gun violence increased 50% between 2020 and 2021. latest mortality statistics for the sinners from disease control

and prevention. in 2019 before the coronavirus pandemic there were 1732 gun deaths among children and ens under the age of 2021 --nder the age of8 -- under the age of 18. by 2021, that number had increased. you can read that at you research.org. from nashville, tennessee, the headline, governor bill lee calls for order ofrotection to keepuns away from dangerous individuals. the governor of tennessee on the tennis -- on tuesday urging both parties to work together on gun legislation in the tennessee legislature. here is governor bill lee. [video clip] >> i certainly hope there is bipartisan support sufficient to get this done. we are at a moment in time in tennessee where because of the incredible emotional responses

to what has happened in the last weeks, all across the board, i am one that believes really difficult circumstances can bring about really positive outcomes. i talk about that a lot, the redemption of struggle or tragedy can bring about a positive thing for our community. those of us who are in the positions we are in and the general assembly, and certainly in our office, we think now is that time. i certainly believe now is that time. i am hopeful people will not have preconceived ideas. we'll be open to bringing forth ideas and discussing and saying, we have to move forward. this is our moment to lead and give the people of tennessee what they deserve. host: that is the current governor of tennessee, bill lee. is compromise possible on gun

reform? for gun owners, the line to use is (202) 748-8000. non-gun owners should use (202) 748-8001. if you have been affected by, impacted by gun violence, the line to use is (202) 748-8002. this is a piece also in the tennessean, two former tennessee governors, one a republican and one a democrat, the headline, why small steps are first tips for democrats, republicans on an reform. democrats and republicans may be at an impasse on big gun reform on assault what rifles but it doesn't mean progress cannot be made. the two former governors do a podcast and in their op-ed, they say, "democrats take it as an article of faithha an assault weapon ban is the onlyan

response. republicans believe in the importance ofeoe to possess firearms. it is clear there is hopes disagreement regarding rategies surrounding a salt weapons. perhaps we cou aee we do have a problem. there is no other nioin the world that has anywhere nearhe mass shootings we do. assault rifle are at an impasse. but if we disengage their for now and turn our attention now to smaller steps, doable and still useful, there are possibilities." the writing of two former tennessee governors in the nashville tennessee and. let's get to viewers and listeners. scott is first up in hutchinson, kansas. go ahead, scott. caller: good morning.

called in on two of your lines. i am a gun owner and i do have a family member who was needlessly shot. somebody was selling it at a garage sale and the gun was loaded and it went off and it was terrible. my idea for guns, i think i should be responsible. i keep them in a safe. i don't leave them laying around. what i would recommend is smart gun technology. why we cannot push that to where the gun owner is the only one that can fire the gun by wearing a watch or having the biometrics. why the nra is against that, i think it would save a lot of children's lives and it would make a lot more accountability to people that own guns. st: that certainly would be

effective in a lot of cases. what about the case in the louisville case on monday? the shooter allegedly purchased that firearm legally. so it would be the gun owner. caller: they did and there was no waiting period. back in the constitution, if you really look at what hamilton wrote, he thought people should be trained more to have guns. she felt owning a gun is a real responsibility. i don't know that it is that way anymore. people use them in inappropriate ways. it is a sad, sad thing. host: we will go to dold, also on our gun owners line in the, missouri. caller: there is no compromise in the second amendment unless you wanted to re-amend the

constitution. it says the people should have the right to keep and bear arms. they needed to enforce the laws. if there is a clear case of murder, they needed to have a death sentence going. in an undeniable case of murder, they need to use the death penalty. that would put a stop to a lot of this killing. there is no compromise in the second amendment unless you want to redo, amend the constitution again. host: so you don't think there is any way to prevent somebody, like going back to the louisville shooter, who allegedly purchased that firearm legally, anyway toorestall the action of the shootings that

person undertook in louisville on monday? caller: a lot of these shooters, they are thinking in the back of their mind, he was probably wanting to commit suicide by police. but a lot of these people, if they think they will be executed by the state, put down on a gurney and put to sleep, they will change their nd completely. they will not go out and commit these crimes if we bring back the death penalty in full force for crimes that are 100% sure, beyond doubt, murder. we have got a big problem with these lacks to da's around the country who don't want to

enforce the laws against murder and robbery, assault, rape. up and down the line you see these cities run by democrats -- host: it headline in the washington post, gunmen plotted ar 15 ambush is the headline. the gunman who killed five people and injured eight in shooting in downtownouisville shut off -- set up an ambush with an ar 15 purchase legally six days earlier. they released footage othe dramatic firing that left one police officer injured. shows one officer 10 days into his new job falling to the ground was in -- police say the

gunman was fatally shot by the training officer, but not bore he had killed five of his coworkers and injured eight others in what police call a targeted attack. authorities say officers nicholas welch and corey -- were the first to arrive on the scene. the 25 euros was a full-time worker at the bank and was targeting coworkers. a line for gun owners, (202) 748-8000. non-gun owners, (202) 748-8001. if you have been affected by gun violence, that line is (202) 748-8002. call on the line thatits your category. in saint stephen's, minnesota, go morning to larry. caller: i offered you a compromise before about 60 days ago but you rudely hung up on

me. i am going to offer it again. we will trade our guns for your vocal cords or your hands. host: judy's who has expericed gun violence in michigan. good morning, judy. caller: good morning. i find it interesting that the second amendment callers continuously refused to include the well-regulated muscle -- the well-regulated militia portion of the amendment that grants them what they seem to believe is their god-given right. in this country it is appalling that we are completely comfortable with six-year-old memorizing the routes and the methods and the actions they have to take to avoided being shot and killed because we

cannot gather the strength to te grown men tha they nnot buy anher gun without a waiting period. it is absolutely embarrassing to be an american citizen at this point in time in our country. sitting back every day, logically looking at what we allowed to happen, because common sense isn't allowed to be the reigninfactor. common sense tel you there is compromise and we could reach it. canada owns millions of guns. they have waiting periods, they have interviews with family members, they have psychologists interview people before you can purchase a gun. there is nothing wrong with all of that. any of those measures would have saved lives in this country. i am waiting for the generation, i am waiting for the people strong enough to stand up for compmise and common sense so

that people and children can stop dying senselessly in this country. it is embarrassing. host: back to the opinion piece by the former governors of tennessee, bill hassell men, the to do a regular podcast together. this is an opinion peach in late march in the tennessean. small steps or first steps for republicans on gun reform. in that piece they start -- they write we can start with d ag lawsaid for people with mental health probls. that might have been effective in the shooting we just had, talking abt nashville. the shooter was undetreatment for mental health yet still obtained and possessed guns. another small step might be making gun owners take legal responsibili for concealing their apons. anyone, conservative or liberal who believes in gun ownership

should agree no misuse for others." caller: we have a lot of gun owners here because we have a lot of hunters. i don't own a gun because i believe it is a false sense of security. i believe a lot of people who own these guns take the second amendment out of context. assat weapons, tanks, things like that, i d't think e founders intended for thato be the case. and i think the only way, or one of the besways to get rid of this nonviolence is to get rid of the nra. if you follow the money, all these congresspeople, state legislatures, they are getting money from the nra. and th don't care.

mones the root of all people, we, the love of money. host: the nra annual meeting coming up this week, we will have coverage on the-span networks. we will go to indiana, this is ryan, gun owners line. good morning. ller: richmond is on fire. they are just going to lethat burn. so that is going on too. that is blowing in ohio.

if you would like to cover that asell. host: your thoughts on our morning topic? caller: i have a lifetime rmanent which pretty much you don't need anymo. indianolis i pretty mu a ootingalleryow. we are at about 50 homicides. and it is not even summertime yet. which is our killing season. that is when we hit our peak of murders. and that doesn't even count assaults with a deadly weapon that are gun related.

i have only fired a gun once, to test it. it was a gun i purchased after someone threatened my life, on my job. host: what was your job at the time, why did they threaten? caller: i sold cell phone. it was an issue withms text messaging. i was troubleshooti the issue, the man was a white supremacist. the phone had a known bug with it, he did not carry the insurance on the phone -- host: ryan, if youapped that

up qckly i would appreciate it. caller: she came in, threatened my life, i felt threatened, i purchased a gun. i was not allowed to threatened -- i was not allowed to carry a gun but he was allowed to bring in a gun and threatened me with it because that was store policy. that is now elevated because guns are allowed it to be anywhere, except for inside the store. it is pretty much very, as they say on the news, indiana has very re-froze sick from section -- self protection laws. host: we are going to go into

paul in south carolina. not a gun owner. caller: wake up, americ nobody is coming for your guns, bubble. the second amendment nowhere says anything about automatic weapons. we need some common sense laws, waiting period. there is no other country in the world having these problems. this is a death sentence for when they do these things. they plan on dying. the death penalty is not going to do anything. this goes on and on and we have these nra supporters that keep on keeping on. i don't know when it is going to end. host: our morning conversation is about gun reform. is compromise possible on gun reform?

for gun owners, (202) 748-8000. non-gun owners, (202) 748-8001. if you have experienced an violence, (202) 748-8002. on that same line is anders. good morning. caller: the previous caller's opinion, i couldn't agree more. i am a clinician so i see in the emergenc room, surgical setting. it is important to remember gun violence trickles down to every aspect of society. health care workers, emts, these are all people traumatized by what they see. i pray for our country. i graduated high school in 1999 and that was right around columbine.

my entire adult life it has just gotten worse and worse. we just need more compassion. that is all i have to say. thank you for taking my call. host: this is from the louisville courier journal, the adline, this is about life and death, the mayor regarding gun laws after louisville shooting. here is the goverr -- here is the mayor at a news conference yesterday. [video clip] >> this isn't about partisan politics. this is about life and death. this is about preventing tragedies. you may think this will never happen to you, never happen to any of your friends or loved ones. i used to think that. the sad truth is that now, no one in our city, no one in our state, no one in our country has that luxury anymore.

last year i survived a workplace shooting. and now yesterday i have lost a very close friend in another workplace shooting. five more families have lost a loved one. it has happened in louisville, it could happen in paducah, in pikeville, in covington. this is happening in america everywhere and it will keep happening until we say enough and take meaningful action. host: backo the peace in the nashville tennessee in. this is the opinion of two former governors in tennessee, bill hassell and phil brandis and whdo a podcast together wrote this piece at the end of march in regards to the nashville shooting. in this piece they watch, "small steps for gun reform.

republicans and democrats nd better ways of working together. both of us have found the best way to work together. it isn't about talking about working together, but to do it. when we have done that successful we will graduate to harder ones. out of this tragedy wi come ways to better protect our children in schools. what we have a second hope as well, if we hand it wisely and show some successes, our response could become an inflection point where arica starts to relearn how to talk with one another and solve problems or come -- solve problems." in nashville, a gun owner. caller: i live in the beautiful state of tennessee, i live in nashville. i am a gun owner. i am a responsible one. i believe it doesn't really

depend on if you are a gun owner or not, we do have a common ground this is wrong. these mass shootings are wrong. if we can find some compassion, things have got to change. we need background checks. we need all of that. for us to come together and saying how are we going to change that and take little steps, there is going to be a change because we can all agree on that. host: from the wall street journal this morning about the fallout in the tennessee legislature after the shootings in the protests on t floor in the tennessee house, tennessee's republican led house of representatives moveto expelled to democrats last week, resulted in a surprise. it gave the due out the biggest platform of their careers.

the two democrats, justin jones and justin pearson were expell from the house days after they interrupted a session to advocate gun control following a masshooting. the hoes super majority thought to punish the freshmen lawmakers for breaking use rules, but ended u capitulating -- end up catapulting the two young men with next to no widespread name id, onto the national stage. they have national tv appearances and a call from president biden. one of the cleagues svived a potential expulsion by one vote. vice preside kamala harris met with all three democrats last week. 400 thousand dollars raised by chris murphy of connecticut, a prinent gun control advocate. mr. jones ran into the 19 50's folksier johnson bias ian rport nday and the pair sayinge shaloverco while holding hands.

whatever happens next, political observers don't eect the tennessee three to fade from political ew." on our non-gun owners line it is tim in north carolina. go ahead. caller: i am an 80-year-old, served in the militar i am appalled at these people that think for some reason the constitution is a suicide pact. we spend millions of dollars trying to fortify schools. i attended a board of election meeting yesterday and they are trying to harden theffice

there. its going to cost them already thousand dollars or more to put in bulletproof lasts and the things that need tbe done to make sure somebody does't come in with a n and shoot up the place. that is just a small part of the cost of nuts owning guns. they also say we need to do more on mental health. yes, we do, but then they won't fund it. if we are not willing toayhe second amendnt is related to a well regulated militia, th we need to start taxg weapons that these pple own, to pay for althese additional needs that are caused by irresponsible or crazy gun owners.

do something that is real. i fnd it intesting that in both tennessee and kentucky, once a person in a fairly high responsie place inovernmt has someby he kws gethot and killed, all of a sudden they are willing to compromise. rth carolina, we just passed the issue that has beepushed by some conservative groups. you have no wait, no requirement for background checks or anything to buy a weapon. this is insanity built on insanity. i think i have about run out of steam. host: appreciate the call. we go to missouri with jewels,

on the gun owners line. caller: i am a gun owner. i have a way of dealing with things like this. i go to the facts. the facts were, the second amendment was not written for everybody to go around carrying a weapon. it was written to maintain a well regulated militia because there was no armed forces. let me just give you a portion of what the militia act said, which was written right after the second amendment w passed. it was for all white males between the ages of 17 and 45 to be on call to defend the nation in case of a civil insurrection, foreign invasion or indian uprising. that is the preparatory clause that launched the militia act.

e late scott leo wrote the amendment that says it is a personal right. s, it is a personal right if you are a part of a well regulated militia. that well regulated militia, it is the militia act of 1792. and the second amendment was passed in december of 1791. they were serious about how they wrote it. the reason how they wrote it, it anybody familiar with long nose, and act is basically a regulation. i don't know how the late antonin scalia came up with it was a personal right. but no law i know is wrien by the operative clause. it is on written for the first instance, the preparatory clause. host: we are talking about gun reform, is comprose possible

on guneform? especially in the wake of the louisville shooting and last month mass murders in nashville. 02) 748-8000, ishe line to call for gun owners. (202) 748001, non-gun owners. and if you have had experience with gun violence, (202) 748-8002. from politic republicans facing a wreck ending later this week. republicans are openly distressed about the prospect of usin-- of losing younger voters on abortion, firearm and democracy. i week's end, their challenge on those three friends could grow worse. in kentucky many declared 2024 candidates will be branded at the national association annual leadership forum in indianapolis. a number of candidates will travel south on i-65 where they will make their case to the national republican committee

grantees for gathering in nashville. the site of not only another mass shooting but also the state gop led inction of two democratic lummi -- two democratic lawmakers last week. president and ceo of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence. you are given a single unified message, you don't book to send or disagreement on guns. john is in long island who has had experience with gun violence. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have an ea. we call up russia and we tell them, we will pay you any kind of incarceration in russia is more harsh than over here.

they are too soft over here. we will send you to russia after one iarceration, you will not commit another crime. host: in georgia, gary on the gun owners line. caller: good morning. this is kind of a political issue. y'all have been trying for 30 years to get people not to listen to their tv while y'all have got them on the phone, and that ain't working out too good for you. so what makes you think these people that listen are all of a sudden going to listen? what makes you think these people are all of a sudden going to start listening? i will give up my guns when all the criminals give up their guns. i have never seen a gun get up off the ground and kill somebody. unless somebody picked it up and

pulledhe trigger. criminals is the problem. host: we will go to trinidad, colorado on the non-gun owners line. it is chip, you're on the air. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say two quick points. the first one is simple. we have got to ban the ar 15. just a point to make guns are not coolguns are not sexy, guns are not fun. we have got to make guns not seem all those things. banning the ar 15 is the least we can do to make an effort towards hopefully doing something good. but my bigger point is, there is a single thread that runs through everyone of these mass shootings and it doesn't sm to get pointed out much. this person had just gotten fired from his job. he had interned at that place since he was a kid and worked at it using his prime of his life.

he had just been fired. in previous mass shootings, the school where the trans person, he or she had done great in graphics in college and started her own graphic business. she lost that and she was having to be a shopper at a grocery store. host: we lost you there, chip. we will go to war and in brandon, florida. you are on the air. caller: first of all let me thank c-span for the history ssons. i think the second to the last caller, third to the last caller gave a good history about the second amendment and what it actually stood for. people should have listened to that. however, i had a nephew lost to gun violence.

the media and law enforcement seem very complacent in this whole situation. every time you have shootings, it seems like inner-city usa, you don't hear all of this, we must do something about guns and we must do something about mental health. u don't hear it. people die every day. young men brandishing weapons, you wonder how do they afford thesweapons from the areas they living in. but nobody even looks at that. the media doesn't look at that, law enforcement doesn't lo at it. nobody says, where does a 16-year-old boy get a weapon like that? $600, seven hundred dollars, $1500, where ds he get a weapon like that? nobody says anything like that.

but when they do something like these mass shootings, all of a sudden we are talking about mental health, as if mental health is somehow regulated to one particular section of the community and not the other. this is a cancer. when the canr was in one particular part of the communities, nobody cared. so now the cancer is spreading and everybody is losing their mind trying to figure out how to cut the cancer out. that is all i have to say. host: appreciate that. to his point, gun violence in the nation's capital reporting in the washington post on the shooting yesterday, one killed, three wounded in shooting outside a d.c. funeral home. one m was kille three people were woued tuesday in shooting outside a northeast whington funeral home where mourners had

justinished a service or a man who was shot last month, according to d.c. police. in california, david is a gun owner. go ahead. caller: good morning, bill. host: good morning. caller: if the government spend as much money as they do in ukraine, all that money instead of going to ukraine could be put into the schools to fortify them, have guards, watch the kids. they are our future. put them first before a foreign country. this should solve the problem. thkurt -- the third call her back said guns don't kill people, people kill innocent people and they go to the weakest points, instead of going to places where armed people are at. they are going t the places they know no one has guns. that is the problem. they are cowards, they are weak,

they are sick and they need to be dealt with. this is in a non-issue, it is a people issue, a cowards issue. people that are no good. host: headline this morning online at the courier-journal .com out of louisville, the headline, it doesn't make sense, old national bank goes from ime scene to memorial. dr. jason smith is the chief medical officer at university of louisville health yesterday at a news conference making a plea for policymakers to do something. [video clip] >> i will be honest, caring for three shooting victims, plus the other that came in, is not in unfrequent day for us. the events surrounding this made this much more difficult. but to be honest with you, we barely had it to adjust our operating room schedule to be able to do this. that is how frequent we are

having to deal with gun violence in our community. personally, i am weary. i have been in louisville for 15 years, all of it at the university hospital. for 15 years i have carried for violent -- i have cared for victims of gun violence. i am more than tired, i am weary. there is only so many times you can walk into a room and tell someone they are not coming home tomorrow. and it just breaks your heart. when you hear someone screaming mommy or daddy, it becomes too hard day in and day out to be able to do that. my team is fantastic. they are absolute professionals and they are wonderful. but sooner or later, it catches up to everybody. you just cannot keep doing what we are doing. because you just cannot keep seeing these lives lost. you cannot keep seeing all the people with these horrific injuries coming through the door

without doing something to try and help them. i don't know what the answers are. i am a doctor. i don't know what the answers are. but to everyone who helps make policies, both at state, city, federal, i would simply ask you to do something. because doing nothing, which is what we have been doing, is not working. we have to do something because this is just getting out of hand across our city and across this great nation of ours. host: i am getting to some comments on social media via twitter, john says, "we need to look at the root cause an attack them. why are so many people troubled to the extent they murder otrs and assure themselves? the people are not guns, why would you give the military grade weapons says anthony in riverside, illinois. rebecca says, "gun control is not possible until it smas at

the ballot box." if you don't belong to the military or well organized mitia, you should not have a gun. it is obvious the nra has purchased the republican party and they will do anything to stop this. until they value human life over guns." that is joe in kentucky. our programs coming up on the c-span network, starting at 10:00 today, a look at the recent failures of silicon valley bank and signature bank. the vice chair of the fbi see, travis hill will talk about the role of the fdic, instability in the financial markets and more live at c-span. also on the c-span now mobile app and streaming at c-span.org. in the afternoon president let a mere zelenskyy will speak about support in the war of ukraine against russia.

live at 2:00 p.m.. also here on c-span. one more later this afternoon, 3:10 p.m. eastern, local leaders and economics and finance gather for the world economy summit to talk about challenges and priorities in the complex in a financially interconnected world. live coming up at 3:10 p.m. here on c-span, on the mobile app c-span now and on c-span.org. let's get back to our conversation on gun reform. brenda in sylvan. caller: good morning, bill. the one caller from missouri, the second amendment has become so distorted over the years that it is to the point of being ridilous. if you go and read the actual constitution, it says congress has the power to call forth the litia to hold the laws of

theand, repel invasis and suppress insurrections. congress has the power to call forth thmilitia. the second amendment established the militia that congress is to call forth. that is with the second amendment does. it establishes the militia that congress has the power to call forth. on the topic of, drug manufacturers were held accountable for how people were misusing their products in the privacy of their o home. so whenever someone gets a hold of a gun from their parents or a neighbor or whatever, i think those people should be held responsible as well for how their products are being misused.

a good idea would be to have gun owners purchase insurance. doctors have to have malpractice insurance, i have to have car insurance in case i injure anybody, i think it would be a great idea that when you are purchasi a gun, you ve to call an insurance company and get insurance on that weapon. and the amount of the insurance would be based on the style of weapon and you would be charged insurance bad on how many weapons you have. this might cut down on people owning arsenals and buying high-powered weapons or something. whenever i wento buy my car, i had to contact my car surance company rig away get insurance. it would be a really great idea for people to have gun insurance. and that might make people think twice about buying weapons. it might not solve everything, but it might go a ng wayo

helping people decide, in the spur othe moment, whether or not they really need aun. host: we had caller earlier in the show ta about his expericeith a rearm that cidently disarged. the washingtonost is writing about that in an investigative report they just published this morning, or late yesterday popular handgun fires without anyone pulling the trigger. at least 80 people, including police aege they were shot by their pistol. some have lost work after serious injury. here is a part of the article. one warm afternoon in may, jackson was getting ready for a visit to xo garden lounge. he leaned across his bed for his wallet, suddenly he says the gun fired tearing into his right buttock and into his ankle.

i lookedown and saw blood his wife heard t shot from down the hall and screamed. a trail of blood over the hardwood floors. at no point, jackson later told police had he touched to the guns trigger. the p 320 is one of the nation's most popular handgun. a variant of the weapon is a standard issue handgun for every branch of the u.s. military. since the guns introduction to the commercial market in 2014, then you facture sig sauer has sold the gun to hundreds of thousands of civilians and it has been used by officers at more than 1000 law enforcement agencies across the agency, court records show. the post says it also has a gruesomely injured scores of people who say the gun has potentially deadly defects. more than 100 people allege their pistols discharged when they did not pull the trigger.

an eight-month investigation by the washington post and the traces found at least 80 people were wounded in the treating -- in the shootings. you can read that at washington post.com. they do, in that article, get response from sig sauer, which you can re in the article in its written response to questions. denied the 320 was capable of firing without a trigger pool. and decided accounts of unintentional discharges with other firearms as evidence that such issues with the p3 20 are neither uncommon nor suggestion of a defect with the gun. ane is in ann arbor, michigan. than for waiti. go ahead wityour comment. caller: i am speaking from experience. i was in a shooting. directly in the shooting. i was at the front des i was at a school.

the person with a gun walked. would have seen me first, but by chance was at a postage machine ay from a desk. he entered, he shot at all three people in the room, shooting everyone of them. one was killed. i wi people could e what it looks like after, in ro, withoutheir face, no one sees who they are, the carnage, how gruesome it is. this is insanity. but if people saw the reality of what peoe look like after they have been shot by a gun and over and over, ts wouldn't happen. and also people who are bra enoughay be let pple see what their wnds look like, the ones whore lucky enough to survive, what the rest of their life is going to be like, this

would not go on. people would finally be so disgusted with this, they are disgusted enough it would be over-the-top ithey truly saw on sanitized picres of what happened. host: even though you were not injured, how dyou think this has affected your life since the shooting? caller: luckily as time goes by, your memories kind of hero over, scar over. but if the weather is athat time of the yea it was right before christmas, you feesorry for the families. you feel -- you see what it has done. luckily the person who did it went to pris. at least we know he is in prison. he has h plenty of time to think about what they did. these people who shoot

themselves, they think they are getting out lucky. likehis woman was sayin going -- saying, gun oership wasn't for personal pleasu. it was for certain circumstans. like what is happening with insurgency andhat sort of thing. we have got a militia out there like you wouldn't believe. i don't know what they are waiting for with all their guns. people who are disgruntled and incapable of making a decisio just fly off, tryingo take revenge on people they don't even know. this is insanity. people should be able to see exactly what alassroom looks like after poor little children are shot out -- are shot at. host: we will gto rip in fredericksburg, virginia. a gun owner. caller: everybody has guns. so many guns, probably never

ing to get rid of them. have we ever thought about cars? cars are the biggest mass destruction item ithe world and they are given to youth whose critical process a not. i see it on a nstant basis. you are never going to get rid of guns, you're never going to get rid of car the only thing, in my ignorance, that can be done is for parts bathe into the children, still to their children e portan of gun safety. i was given a single barrel 12 gauge some -- 12 gauge shotgun at nine and hunted by myself. i had er kept my gun und my father would have taken it away from me immediately. if i had pointed it at peoplor swung it around, i wou have lost everything. guidance, you need peoplto teach you how to conduct yourself with a weapon of mass

destruction, which is a gun, which is a car. parents don't do their jobs anymore like they used to. at iin my ignorance i say that. you have to have a gun with all the illegal immigrants coming in and people not being brought up properly. i live way back in the riv my wife is here alone, i think a gun is important foher to have a. my greatest thing righnow is to think about, after losing my n i have a horror realizing what those people are going through right now. they are going through something that is so deep in your marrow,

you just breadown crying, you never know when it is going to come get you. this too shall pass. 15 years after hunter died, 2000 seven, we believe his friend ran him off the road killing them both. god bless everybody in the united states. just think twice, think five times and act one. host: here is a piece from the washington times, david keyes, editor for the washington -- editor for the new york times. governor desantis making legislation. in such jurisdiction lawful gun owners are not to pay fees. or seek from their local sheriff to carry a concealed firearm.

shameful said spokesperson pierre as mr. desantis claimed in the sunshine state constitutional car is in the book. in new hampshire, gary is not a gun owner, calling in. caller: good morning. agree with thprevious caller that says it is not the guns. yes, she is rrect it is not the guns, it is the peoe. it is also incumbent on the ited states congress to get togeer and do something about toughening up these gun ws. it is high time they get out of the ass of the nra. it is time the republicans g from under thehumb of the nra and started thinking about the people of this country instead of thinking aboutaking donations from a gun lobby that buies and everything else. it is about time they had some sympathy for the families that have to bury their loved ones

because of this senseless gun violence that shouldave been stopped well before columbine. it is just sad this cotry has gotten to the point it ha gotten to because our political leaders refused to stand up, take a stance and do something about it. st: a couple of comments on social media and a text from john in st. paul, nnesota. like abortion, it is my right. not even the smallest common sense laws on abortion and that is not even protected by the constitution. there is protection of gun rights, it is called the constitution -- it is called the second movement. robert says,i am not se people are willing tcome from eyes on gun reform legislation. activating the national guard to stop things are, -- stop

things." caller: my house was invaded years ago. because i didn't lock my house back then. and the person left the house. 2: in the morning, he was intoxicated. i locked the doors in e person came back to the door and s pounding on the door saying he was going to get in. i grabbed one of my firearms. i told him i had one, he said he had one too. i had already called the police. no shots were fired. but i had the gun at my house and i useit to protect myself.

that is just the way it is. i have that right. like the previous person said with the abortion thing said lie previous person said, medical has come along long waand i am not an antiabortion person. i don't want to get off topic. host: thank you for sharing your experience as well. more to come on washington journal as well. up next the fallout continues over the massive leaks of sensitive military documents. we will talk about that with tara copp. plus the irs lays out how they plan to spend that extra money from the inflation reduction act. we will follow that with senior correspondent eric katz. ♪

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the associated press has been able to view 50 of the documents. the full scope is unknown. we are receiving reports that are as many -- that there are as manas 100 documents out there. every day you see more trickle out. the documents were between secret and top-secret. somewhere for specific people, morning briefing slides sharing known intelligence about what we have seenow, both allies and potential adversaries. the pentagon did not want any of this out in the public domain. you have seen in the days since they have had to do outreach to governments across the globe to do damage control. host: is there any sense of who is behind the leaks? guest: what we know is that some of the documents were first

posted to an online gamin site where people can share memes, privat discussions, called discord. these users are from past experience in espionage history are not typically who you would think would be trying to spy on the pentagon. one theory that a couple of experts have ned is this may just have be someone who got access to the documents who post them online to win an argument on something. the main thing we have learned is the pentagon really does not know how they got up there and how many are up there and what is the scope of the damage. host: what is the pentagon doing to address the leaks? guest: immediately they started to scrub the list of who has access. one official i talked to said as many as hundreds of

people have access to the documents. there are starting to tighten this and how they are collected afterwards. as you saw in these pictures a lot of the documents look like folded pieces of paper, someone had taken the briefing afterwards, folded it up and put it in their pocket to take it. host: that lends more credibility that this is actually a document that someone had first-hand access to. host: potentially-- guest: potentially yes. between the fbi and the department of defense they are working to find out how these things got online. host: you menoned the ap got to look at 50 documents recently. the headline of your peace -- "leaked documents, a very serious risk to security says the pentagon." where might the biggest security

risk be? guest: it could be all over the place. right now the most pressing concern is ukraine's spring offensive. there were a lot of documents about what equipment will get out there, the timeline on that equipment, assessment of battles that could be used by both sides to shift their approach to this critical spring offeive that might determine what shape ukraine is in and what demands it can make to end this war. host: how are the group craniums reacting? it seems they are the most affected are the most prominently mentioned in these documents. guest: the ukrainians and other countries who have been affected have taken a common line that it seems like some of these documents are fabricated, and that would give everyone enough wiggle room to back off a little bit, to try

and take some of the pressure off of these documents and say they were either fabricated or may be inaccurate and give everyonet enough roomo fold -- everyone enough room to fold. host: this could be a disinformation campaign by the ukrainians. it could be a disinformati campaign by the russians. guest: another security expert i talked to to get these documents out ofhe pentagon, you have to be a professional at the level of security access tget to these documents, but then you would have to have enough of an agen to ge it out to the mainstream. that might be a very limited pool of people. thru will be looking -- they will be looking at who may have had movations to do that. they will have to figureut how to prevent this in the future, and looking at those motivations will be a key factor. host: there are echoes of previous high profile leaks. you mentioned the online gami

site discord. where does it go from there? how does that wind up reported in the associated press? guest: if it had stayed in this private discord chat, which some media outls reported may be a couple thousand people having these private discussions about videogames games and other cultural issues, maybe they would never have seen the light of day, but as happens with the internet, someone put them in a bigger group someone saw those shots, put them in a bigger group and eventually they ended up on twitter. you on musket said this yesterday, nothing on the internet ever really goes away. it lives in perpetuity as social media sites move on and on. host: do you anticipate seeing more documents? host: guest: that is -- guest: that is a big question. it is a question for us.

it is a question for the penton. nobody knows how many document were takens. nobody knows how many documents were uploaded. has this had a chilling effect now where people will not post them or is there an active hunt out there to see how much can be publicized and exploited? host: o guest is tara copp. she covers pentagon with the associated press. we welcome your calls and comments on this topic. (202) 748-8001 is the line for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. for independents and all others, (202) 748-8002. kirby addressed to the issue of potential further leaks. here is what he said. [video clip] >> the u.s. government is crouching, waiting for the next bombshell to hit telegram are

twitter, you are in a position where you do not know how many documents will be published? >> we don't know what is out ere, james. we d't know who is reonsible for this and we do not know if they have more that they innd to post so we are watching this and monitoring it as best we ca but the truth and theonest answer to your question is we don't know. is that a matter of concern to us? it is. host: a lot of we don't know's there. guest: you heard those same "we don't know's" at the press conference yesterday. almost all othe questions were focused these documents and he had to keep going back to the fact that we don'know. they have started this interna review where they test a small group of people focus in on the documents and figure out the

fu scope of the program. -- full scope of the problem. that scope is limited but we have already seen that there are documents dated both before and after that range. an official i spoke to this morning said that is just what they have reviewed this morning. host: you have seen incidents of leaks come up on a scale, where do you think this falls in the things that you have experienced? guest: in ter of its implications and how many international partners we have to do damage control with, this is huge. host: do you think this will mean for the pentagon less access for reporters, less access for others who want to get information? guest: reporters don't typically get to go to classified briefings, so i wouldn't worry

about that part of it, but i think there will be a real look. as you know the idea of over classification of the pentagon has been an issue for a long time and there are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of peoe have security clearances. does eveone of those people need access? do they need to know? do they need security access? host: the whole idea, and you mentioned, that there are actual, physical documents in an age where a lot of us do not have -- i have them in front of me here but a lot of us do not have documents to fold. a lot of what you a desibing of what is posted onne are photos of folded documents. guest: that is what may have created the opportunity. they may get a briefing and a myri of ways. it may be through secure video teleconference.

itay be through an online powerpoint. may be through a tablet they are given access to it ifhey are in a place where they cannot access those electroc means they may g a briefing book and that seems to be where this vulnerability lies. host: i want to ask you one other topic on the report last week by the administration on the withdrawal from afghanistan. the headline from nbc says "the biden administration blames the trump administration for the withdrawal from afghanistan. what is the message from the administration? guest: there was not a real scrub of accountability and that 12 page report that was released last week. i think the administration wanted to emphasize that they were given a set of conditions that they had to react to. that is partially true. the former trump administration had agreements that cornered them or at least limited their options, but it any given time

president biden could have changed his mind and said " we will leave a residual force." as that summer moved on, there was a momentum that this was going to happen regardless, and when it did happen and the taliban started to take advantage of that and sees more parts of the country, the final the terrier ration went very rapidly. host: let's get to calls. let's start with ron in michigan on the independent line. good morning. caller: tara, look, i have two questions. one is some of these documents, perhaps disseminated from the different psidentd that wer -- presidents that were recently challenged for all of the documents that were in their homes, especially trump. that is number one. number two, i heard on the news, and correct me if i am wrong,

that the egyptians are selling ammunition based on the information that was released from the documents that were out there, selling ammunition to the russians just to keep us from targeting them. i would like to know if there is truth to either or. please tell me. guest: thank you for the question. on your first question, the dates of these documents from late february to early march of 2023 suggest that they would not have been part of that trove of documents that was taken from former president trump's estate in florida. onhe second question, the ports on the egyptians sales and all of the other countries too that have been implicated in these documentd, what you are seeing -- documents, what you are seeing are widespread deals thathe information in

the leaked documents are not true. host: mac in hawaii on the independent line, good morning. caller: i'm just curious. in hawaii there are a lot of people who have access st different levels -- at different levels of security for different reasons, different facilities, different subcontracting companies. one thing i have experienced is friends who had access is that it is not really a super uniform technology. the more famous leaking situations like snowden shows us that there are a lot of methodologies to bring this information outside. i am just curious if any

presidency will ever make an effort to come up with a more utilized method to control this and start declassified materials that you not have been classified to begin with? thanks. guest: thank you for the question. the department of defense has been trying to take an overall look at declassified material and the over classification of material. you have seen congress press this issue we will have documents that are labeled secret that you see in an open source is somewhere else. as far as the methodologies you were talking about, one of the tripping points furred the dod is -- for the dod is that it is such a big organization. all of these people working in

different locatis around the world have different levels of connectivity. one person may have great inteet access. others may have spotty internet access, which requires a different form of communication. it is hard to create a uniform approach to securing all of this. right now what you have seen and in years past is emphasizing to the workforce the importance of securing information. host: i saw a sto on thbbc this morning, leak shows wester special forces on the ground, th u.k. is among a number of other countries whose special forces are operati inside. the bbc said that it has confirmed has been the subject of wide speculation for over a year. according to the document, the u.k. has the largest contingent of special forces in ukraine. is there any indication that the u.s. has any special forces in

ukraine? guest: the same document that that report is referring to reveals that there is a small number of u.s. forces there. i have been digging into this, and some of the officials we have talked to have suggested that this is just the force that was planned to support the bc in their attaché role, that there is -- the embassy in their attaché role, but the department of defense have emphasized that there are no u.s. troops in any combat support roles. they are not going outside the wire. even the inspectors we have looking at the accountability for weapons systems, they are not going to those places to see did this air defense system survive. ho: do you think the same thing holds true for nato forces? guest: i don't know. host: let's go to dj in

weatherfd, texas. dj, go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i i'm curious why when we get into highly intelligent type situations and we are looking for answers and we are digging for news, why is washington journal, why are you interviewing another reporter? rather than this reporter from the associated press going and showing us an interview of a high level intelligence person talking about this? host: part of the reason is we do ask high-level intelligence people. tara copp, this is her beat and

has been for a long time covering the pentagon, covering stories like this, covering what officials say in front of the camera and behind the scenes. that is why our guest is with us this morning. guest: i think these ongoing discussions between reporters and officials are necessary to help shed light on what this entire leaked documents issue is, whether it is leaked documents or a tiny spy balloon, having all theoices the table hopes inform the public. host: george calling from tennessee, good morning. caller: this is george from tennessee. there has been more and more and more of this intelligence leak. my belief is you can blame one person for this. that is the last administration. host: do you think the leaks are

any worse in this administration? the trump administration,? the obama administration? guest: each administration has had leaks, they have been situational and it is usually looking at what has motivated that person or persons to leak. we have had major online leaks before. you mentioned earlier in this interview, there have even be in other leaks on online gaming platforms of weapons and systems that got into the hands of people who were not trying to spy on the government. they were trying to win an argument over whether a tank in an argument was correctly designed. it is looking outweighs the pentagon can better secure a love this classified information. host: our lines are (202) 748-8001.

that is the republican line. (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. i had question for you, tara, from matt on twitter who said "i have heard some edits of the leaked docs -- do they indicate russia as a source?' guest: possibly. some of e slides looks like they had been doctored or the numbers have been changed, which was walking a tight rope for them because they are saying " this is our document." if you say the document looks like it habeen changed, then you say that it is familiar. th is something theentago

has been suggesting for the last few days as it assesses the damage. it could be that someone messed with the numbers. these are the big unknowns in this story. host: here is jen in the martin, ilnois, independt line. caer: hello. i was just wonring if you really date this back tohe wikileaks issues and there was even a -- from my standpoint this seems more like a russian intelligence trying tmake or keep nato and uoff bance when it ces to r effos in the ukraine. i just wondered what your guest: thoughts might be. guest:the experts i have -- i just wondered what your thoughts might be. guest: the experts i have oken to have suggested that may be a possibility. one reason the documents may

have been posted online is to weaken the public' wills to keep giving the ukraine all these weapons. the defense department is oking for a motive. host: have we seen any subtle or significant policy change on the part of the u.s., on the rt of the ukrainians because of these leaks? guest: it has only been a couple of days since they have been out publicly, but they have been circulating online for weeks and that is really the biggest concern. if you have top secret documents out there on the web, and you do not know who has been ab to view tm in the weekshat they ha beenhere, just how mh -- what tactics were changed in the interim before the u.s. seems to have come aware that they were t there ho: from jimbin california -- " doe your guest reason that the leak is morembarrassing

then a national security problem?" guest: i have heard split views on this. it won't be that big of a deal, this w't change ukraine's strategy for the sing offense. they he thei plan, those warplanes are tightly hel that is not going to change anythg. one of the documents describes how u.s. airefenses are dwindng, and the u.s. has been pushing systems into ukraine, but they are being used at such a high rate that ukraine might run out. host: it seems to be an ongoing problem, the demand of the ukrainian government for more munitions and the ability of countries like the u.s. who just announced additional funding for ammunition and firearms, it

seems like it taking a lot of capacity for u.s. industry to respond to this. host: -- guest: it is. you have seen general milley and secretary austin scour the globe with allies fined what air defense systems can be sourced. germany has given th iris t air defense systems. the u.s. will soon send patriots . arming all of those and providing munitions and spare parts, those dig deeper into the different levels of the supply chain that wasot ready for this huge conventional land war. host: the part of the leaks talking about egypt and possibly supplying arms to russia -- on thrussian sid are they to suffering from ammunition and arms shortages?

guest: what some of the documents have suggested and as we have been told and general milley has said, the russians have taken on substantial losses particularly with their ground forces. u have en calls for replacemts to come in. you have seen heavy use of the bagna group. what you have not seen his use of russia's fighter jets. one of the theories is that they may be holding tho in reserves, anticipating that these air defense systems may run ouof supy and at that point to start an aicampaign. host: do your point oground forces, new russian law would make it more difficu for russians to evade the draft just ssed by the duma. what does that tell us? guest: we all saw -- what does that tell us? guest: we all saw the footage of

russians rushing to cross the border, especially those who were eligible for that initial draft. now you are seeing that they are making it illegal to leave. ukraine did the same thing at the very beginning of its war. all men aged 18 to 60 were required to stay and fight. the women and children could leave. ukraine has a much smaller population than russia. host: let's hear from linda in kansas on the rublicans' line. caller: i hear so much about this ai. do we know if those papers are actually real, or could it be ai generated by sebody? guest: that is a good question. officials haveonfirmed some of the documents seem to be, the briefing document that will be held by military officials to understand the situation in

ukraine, but they have not authenticated any specific documents particularly because information has been marked clasfied. i don't think they would consider this to be ai generated but there are a love questions as to which one of these documents are authentic and which ones are not. host: troy is our next caller. caller: i would like to ask the question you or anyone of the members of your team, judges, the d.o.a., why haven't they checked obama's house or his basement or his attic or anything like that? we have never heard anything like that. can you check into that for us, and make sure you check his home as well? host: eagle rock, california, independentine.

caller: im calling about the intelligence and the pentagon. i am an 88-year-old yvette. i was in the air fce rangers unit in korea. i found that with the military and also in the government, chaos starts at the top. when you don't have anybody up ere who knows what they are doing, then you are going to ve chaos trickle all the way down to the soldier on the field. if he does not have somebody telling him what to do that knows what to do, then it is going to be --ou are out there floundering. that is what i see going on with the government now. instead of plging up the holes at the top, you

aren't going to be able to do what needs to be done at the bottom. host: the pentagon instituted -- has the pentagon instituted any new changes following these leaks? gues i can't get specific on procedure, they have tightened up who has access. they regularly scrub lists to see who has a need to know, who needs to have cess to this information, in the wake of the leaks that got a tight look almost immediately. as far as the caller's question, every defense leader i have covered at the top has issued at some point in theirenure the need tsafeguard class b informatn -- safeard classified information. and needs to bl down to thos invidual solers, airmen, maris at these individual bases. they do training on protecting classified iormation. every time you visit aase you

see signs posted on drs "have you cured this? have you tak your cess cd make surno one can log behind y and g aess to information?" youre onlas strg as yr weakest nk. host: you meioned is rlier, lyd ausn yesrday with the secretary of state antony blinken here is what he had to say about the leaks. [video clip] >> somewhere in the web, and where exactly and who -- some were in the web and where exactly and who had access at what point, we do not know. i will not speculate. i will tell you we take this very seriously, and we will continue to investigate and turn over every rock until we find the source of this and the extent of it. >> i don't have much to add beyond what the secretary said.

with regard to broadly allies and partners in these documents, we have engaged with allies and partners at high levels in the past days, including to reassure them about our own commitment to safeguarding intelligence and our commitment to our security partnerships. host: the state department leading the damage contr, if you will for the united states. guest: outreach through diplomatic cnnels,ake sure those relations, those important relationships and the intelligence sharing has not been affected by this. officially they will say everything is ok, but time will tell. host: here is david calling from houston on the republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: well, i think what has happened with this week is in a

way a blessing. it has taken 20 years for most americans on either side of the aisle to realize afghanistan and iraq was a big mistake. it has taken even longer to recognize vietnam was a mistake, and there are quite a few parallels between the way this war is developing in the way vietnam developed. it started with advisers in vietnam after the french left. . the rest is history to the numbers, and i will leave that point saying, hopefully it does notake that long for us to realize that this war is also a mistake when it comes to our funding. i think it ismportant to recognize that this is probably the first piece of transparency outside of the propaganda that we have actually been able to see. it gives us kind of an idea of the strength of the ukrainians,

right? where the $150 billion of our tax dollars are being invested. consider our seal of underlined saying that the casualty re -- these documents reflect what the craney and government has than seining -- these documents reflect what the ukrainian vernment has been saying. host: -- guest: just to address some of the figures, the u.s. since ssia invaded last year in february has provided about 35 william dollars worth of -- $35 billion worth of equipment and training assistance. to the broader picture the losses you are referring to are exactly the numbers that the ukrainian government suggests

are fabricated and they do not mesh up with what the official line has been on losses. you saw in the last couple of months general milley also get asked the russian losses. u.s. government officials have not been discussing ukrainian losses, even when we ask but they will say that the russian losses are topping 100,000 and may even be approaching 200,000. what the numbers in the documents are that was one of the first things the dod said this might be fabricated host: next -- fabricated. host: next is shane in knoxville, tennessee. shane, you are on the air, go ahead. caller: specifically my question is the department of defense always seems to be in a knee-jerk reaction with all of these weapons we are sending to

ukraine and the perpetual shortfall that the military-industrial complex has keeping up with the demand. i'm kind ofoncerned that our depleted resources i'm not going to be in place or pre-staged showed something flareup ithe south china sea. could you comment whether or not the department of defense has made the necessary arrangements to ensure that we have all of the assets in place should we find oselves atdds with the people's liberation army? guest: the caller is talking

about the potential that china may invade taiwan and the next several years. we have seen multiple assessments of the u.s.'s ability to regenerate some of the very munitions that we need, especially 155 millimeter ammunition rounds that would be used in howitzers, things like munitions for air defense systems that we have been talking about. that is a multiyear process to get those things back up to the levels that the u.s. might need, if it finds itself in another major land war with china. host: you have covered military issues throught your career. now -- what is it about the topic of military and national security, covering the pentagon in particular that most interests you. guest: the reason i love this

beat is it is where policy meets the real world. washington talks policy, but the soldier and commander must carry out that policy. host: a few more calls for you. we will to melvin in virginia on the independent line as well. caller: good morning, c-span. i have a question about redactions of these documents. i don't agree that they should have been released, but to my understanding, when it comes to secret documents cssified or confidential, does any governmentgency apply certain reductions to those, and at what point do they do that? i'm understanding t documents

in question, were they reased unredacted? est: that gets to the heart of why this is such a big problem for the pentagon and for the state department because the pentagon and sta department did norelease these documents. someone obtained them, possibly illegally and put them out on their own accord on social media platforms. the state department did not have any control over the information that got out there, and that is thr biggest concern, how can they stop that in the future? filing information requests for information is real. i have received documents that were all blacked out with redactions. host: these have been actual briefings. the people premably at thes briefinghad the clearance to see them. guest: that gets to the heart of

it. if you are a professional who has a top-secret clearance and has been told you have a need to know this information, what prompted you to take that information, folded up and remove it -- fold it up and remove it from the secure area where it was hsed? is it possible a third party got it? host: two david in -- to david in akron, ohio. caller: thank you for taking my call. goodorning. this whole thing about our military's missions ha disturbed me for a long time. i am a main street patriot. i call myself a main street patriot. i align myself with the interests of main street and the working people. i i'm not a wall street patriot. wall street's interests are

there investments and, many of the things they do are not in the u.s.'s best interest. the cia are nefarious for their -- i think our job as patriots is to call out when it is wrong, and i think it is possible that this leak was given by a patriot who saw he was helping the country by exposing what he considered wrongdoing. look at daniel ellsberg and the vietnam papers. a lot was revealed that would have otherwise not been revealed. edward snowden was revealing nsa spying. then you have julian assange. i think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. i want america to be right as far as morally and ethically. i no it is a tough world out there.

-- i know it is a tough world out there. we need to sit down at the negotiating table. host: ok, david. some closing thoughts, tara copp? guest: what drove whoever this was that took these documents to put them online? that is something the dod will beetting too as they continue to investigate this matter? host: one otara copp'most recent pieces is " leaked documents." you can read that on ap.org. you can also find her on twitter. thank you for joining us. next up we will talk to eric katz whose reporting on how the irs is planning to spend the money from the inflation reduction act. that is next. ♪ >> live. sunday ma son -- live

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you can listen to q and a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> washington journal continues. host: as we all know, it is tax season end here to talk with us about the irs funding and staffing is eric katz, senior correspondent with the government executive and your story on the irs's plan to hire nearly 30,000 employees over the next two years. your reporting at govexec.com. why does the irs want to hire this many employees? guest: the irs has been understaffed, underfunded going back 10, 15 years and they are trying to correct for that. congress provided $80 billion over the next 10 years to boost

its roles and give it the resources that it needs desperely. they are trying to focus on better enforcement for higher earning individuals, corporations, and also to make taxpayer services better. if you call the irs with a question, a little -- they will answer your your call more quickly. they will help you get your taxes filed correctly and on time. that is theoal. they have not been able to do that for many years. host: in your report you break down some of the numbers of the $80 billion, $47 billion of it in tax enforcement efforts, $7.5 billion in taxpayer services, a $12 billion boost in technology improvements, $4 billion in energy security, and the hiring part of that is $80 billion.

technology is a pretty big part of that. wh did the irs need on eir end in terms of technology improvement? guest: a lot of. their systems are old they are kind of scattershot. they are functioning off of one system in particular. they have a lot of different mechanisms that th use to accomplish their goa, and they want to consolidate that and modernize that. they want to make the user experience better so when you go on there is one portal where you can put in all of your information, get your taxes filed, track how your return is coming, and you can see that process. a a lot of people complain now, they submit their filings for the year and then they'd have to sit back a wait. they don't know en they will hear back from the irs.

making that more user-friendly, making so we can talk to each other better. all of these things will make their operations function more smoothly on the backend for the irs and on the front and for the user experience. host: how big of an organization is the irs? guest: they have somewhere around 80,000 employees. that number has declined since 2010. roughly it hasone down 15,000 employees overall, and they are enforcement personnel, 35,000 -- and they are enforcement personnel only 35,000 -- and their enforcement personnel, only 35,000. host: most will cus on taxpayer services. in 2024 ty will double that to nearly 20,000 hires with the

plurality of the new staff going towards enforcement. the treasury department released its plan weeks ago, drawing the irs many on capitol hill. whe was e opposition -- drawing the ire of many on capitol hill. where was the opposition coming from? guest: they were opposed to $80 billion at all because the opponents of that spending, republicans mostly, say that, that will lead to unfair targeting of everyday americans. obviously the ethos of th republican party is less taxes, so more tax enforcement could be problematic to that view. they're worried about what it will mean for small businesses might receive moreudits.

the biden ministration keeps saying this will only increase audit rates for high earners. there is a concern there. there is also pushback in the way of getting this plan now and detailing where this spending will go . even when the plane came out the was sompushba about lack of stresses th -- lack of specificity. this year-end annext year they spelled that out. what will that look like 4, 5, six years down the road? host: they want a frontline engagement with taxpayers to be their first priority now. guest: that is right. the administration is hoping that the original hiring spree will go toward hping, like i

was talking about, the user experience, answering phone calls, dealing with people's questions that they come up with. later on they will get some more of the hiring enforcement, people who do the investigations into people's taxes and auditing those returns. host: we are talking about the planned hiring of additional irs officials, and spending has been approved in the inflation reduction act. eric katz is with us, senior correspondent with the government executive. we welcome your calls an comments. the lines are (202) 748-8001. that is the republican lines. (202) 748-8000 for democrats.

(202) 748-8002or independents and all others. andy warfel at his swearing-in ceremony talked about the irs's plans for that money. here he is. [video clip] >> what will that meanor taxpayers?in the short and long-term here are a few things the irs will accomplish -- an and to long wait times on the phone, no matter the time -- an end to, long wait times on the phone no matter the time of year. we will provide in person help. more digital tools to help people get the service and information they need. for example, this will mean a more detailed version of refund tracking so people have a clearer view of when and where their refunds are in the processing pipeline. more digital scanning to speed

processing of paper returns we receive. this will reduce errors and speed refunds for paper filers and an expanded online account so taxpayers and tax professionals have a clear view of their tax information and easier ways to address issues with their tax return. taxpayers will be able to respond to irs issues instantly by electronic means, avoiding weeks of paper processing. for many letters from the irs in the mail could be a thing of the past. add all these up and the new irs will make a very complex tax system much easier for people. it will be easier for them to file and understand their tax obligations. this will make it easier for people to claim the credits they are entitled to, something millions of people can overlook every year, like for example missing out on the earned income tax credit and other vital tax credits.

not only will we help provide bigger and better tax refunds for many, but this will help people get it right the first time, avoiding folloup contacts from the irs and avoiding potential audits. host: one of the most reused words in that response was "easier for taxyers." guest: the newly sworn in commissioner danny warfel talked about -- he talked to reporters recently and said he once the irs to become -- he wants the irs to becoma world-class custer serce orgization. i is making things easier -- it is making things easie internally and externally so you can track all of your information. another thing that they want to do, you mentioned the sort of technology improvements, is

making it so that when people file their returns paper, huge backlogs someone from the irs has to take that, type it in, and put it in that way, but they would be able to scan it in immediately as it comes in. by doi that, that uld eliminate all of their backlog.s host: people are still using paper. stl a loof peoe are ung e phone to rea the irs do you have any information about what the typical irs wait time is when you call in? guest: last year in the 2022 filing season, the irs was only anering about 10% of their calls. you basically had to keep trying, and it was not very successful. they are already improving. they have hired 5000 customer

service agents. host for this current year? guest: for this current year using ira money. they now have a 40%. answe rate part of that is fewer people calling, they are answering at a higher rate. host: we will go to matt in dallas on our democrats'-- matt in dallas on our democrats' line. caller: think for taking my call. successful. they are already improving it. they have hired 5000 customer service agents already for this current year using inflation reduction act money and they are now up to 80% answer rate. part of that is fewer people calling, but they are answering at a higher rate. host: let's get to calls. matt in dallas, democrats line. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. a comment and a question. i think it is a good thing the administration isiring 30,000 new agents and proposing to spend 47 point $5 billion on enforcement. my experience has been the people who want to treat the most are the highest earners. that -- you want to cheat the most are the highest earners. here is my question. that enforcement money, do we have a sense if the irs is trying to go after tax cheats or they also looking at enforcement against scammers? my dad still gets calls claiming the irs will arrest him if they

do not pay their taxes, or scammers trying to file fake tax returns in order to steal people's child tax credit or earned income tax credit. gues appreciate that. one thing i will mention off the top. the caller noted $47 billi. this money is already allocated. congress provided this spread out over 10 years. absent the new act of congress took law that back which republicans have tried to do, the money is appropriated to them and they can now spend it. the $47 billion will be spent on enforcement. they are planning go after tax cheats. that is the name of the game. the threshold they have talked about is anyone earning less than400,000 per year will not

see increased audit rates. anyone earning more than that is where they are going after and they talked a lot about the tax gap, meeting the difference between the total of taxes owed versus the amount of taxes they collect and they want to narrow that gap so they are collecting everything that is owed or something close to it. the estimates for what that is range from as high as $ trillion per year. they are trying to reduce that. in terms of these scams, it is certainly something thirs focuses on. the irs does not call you. if you get a call from someone saying you need to pay money to the irs you can ignoret, that is not something they d they are tryg to make it so they do not mail you anymore because they want everything to be digitized through the onlin

system you heard the commissioner talk about. host: let's go to new jersey and here from josephine on the independent line. caller: i want to use myself as a personal experience. this year i processed my tax form with my accountant in february. i was due money back. ree weeks later i had the check. i have to el the new guy at the helm has to be the one responsible. my question is this man comes in with previoubackground experience in the internal revenue. is that true or not? guest: it is true. i'm t sure how much he helped you with your return you just got it last week. he previously served in an acting capacity as head of the irs under the obama administration for several months.

before that he worked in the white house and the office of management and budget for several presidents in both parties. he has a lot of management experience in government and calls himself the right government geek for the job. this is a big time of transformation for irs and he is planning to leverage his experience in government to try to make surthat happens properly. host: you said 5000 hir so far for customer service. are those seasonal or is that a full-time job for that person? guest: those are full-time customer service representatives they have hired. they are trying to get that number back to historical level. host: let's go to peter calling from vermont, independent line. caller: thank you. this is probably a tough question. there are employers out there that hire illegal migrants and

they do not collect the state or federal taxes. how much money of that is not collected, if you could tl me? thank you. guest: i am not sure that number is known, exactly. i mentioned their estimates of the tax gap in general, which could be a few hundred billion dollars a year or up to $1 trillion a yr and they are trying to narrow that d make sure the irs -- the irs make sure any taxes owed are part of this effort of enforcement to ramp that up. host: you have touched on this. headline from the washington post. irs overhaul aims for a tenfold increase in auditsf the wealthy. what is behi that? guest: this is the money we are talking about fornforcement and they are trying to hire thousands and thousands of

employeewho will help go after that and conduct those audits. what they are focung on is trying tget accountants and lawyers and other experts, data scientists who are not new to this profession. they are actually midcareer people who will come in with expertise and can hit the ground running to conduct these audits, which are very complicated. these audits have decreased disproportnately, meaning they have dropped off precipitously ashe resources have declined in recent years. they have neglected these complicated high income individuals and their complicated returns because it is a lot of work to after them. now they are trying to bring the resources back. host: typically, what would

trigger an audit? guest: they could look for anomalies in the returns. sometimes it can just be random. if there is something coming in and therwill be a certain expectation and it does not meet that expectation, there could be an audit, or if there is a drastic change from one year to the next and it does not look right, sometimes these things can be automated in terms of being flagged and then people will review that andetermine if an audit isecessary. host let's go to chris in a san antonio, texas. caller: thanks for taking my call. we can do it all over again if we take half of that $47 billion in hire a bunch of bank examiners. we missed that. my question is is there something in the law that says

$400,000 is where they will only audit people making $400,000? is that in the law or is thatju. guest: that is a number janet yellin has promised. she memorialized that in writing in a direction given to the irs. it is not, as far as i know, it is not codified in the statute. it is something they are promising and they are saying audit rates will not exceed their historic levels for anyone making less than $400,000, which is interesting because we are well below historic levels. thinking back to 2010 when the irs was much more resourced, see could see a slight uptick just to get back to the levels it used to be.

the irs is promising that for the next couple of years they will not do anything to increase audits for anyone making less than $400,000 because their focus is on those making more than that. host: will hear from ray in aurora, colorado on the independent line. caller: good morning. how are you this morning? thanks for taking my call. i happened to be a registered libertarian and what i'm about to ask should not be misconstrued as if i am not in favor of abolishing the irs. i also happen to be a former irs employee and i would like to ask about my key filing. i wonder if you could explain more about the free file alliance. one of my primary concerns is i see this as a form of corporate welfare, but also you are not just dealing directly with the irs as far as filing your return.

regardless of which tax company, our personal data is going into the hands of a third-party. guest: there are certainly agencies that help individuals and corporations file their taxes. it is a pretty complicated process and not everyone wants to tackle that on their own. you mentioned e-filing. there is a push to get more people and businesses to take advantage of e-filing. it does not create that paper backlog we talked about. they are not going to get rid of that. that will always remain an option for the foreseeable future. there is no plans to get rid of the option to paper file. they do not like it because it takes them so much longer to process. host: the money for the

increased spending for the agents, for the technology is from the inflation reduction act. $80 billion. just recently house republicans vote to strip the irs from funding, pledging to repeal the $80 billion. where does that stand? it has been passed by the house. what will happen in the senate? guest: it does not seem there is much appetite for that in the senate. as long as it is democratic-controlled it will probably not come up for a vote. this is a key democratic initiative in the inflation reduction act included onset of new spending and this is one way they are trying to pay for that. the irs will collect more taxes and that will reduce deficits. they are not interested in walking that back. where the fight will be is in the regular appropriations

process. the biden administration is seeking more money for the rs as part of the annual spending process and republicans are saying we just gave them $80 billion, the democrats did, and we do not have any interest in increasing their budget on an annual basis. that could be an interesting fight this fall. host: eric katz is with us, senior correspondent with governor -- with government executive. we welcome your calls. (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 free democrats. the independent line is (202) 748-8002. frank is in philadelphia on the independent line. caller: donald trump and the republicans always seem to be saving the american public trillions, but the republicans cut out a lot of programs that were meant to help the people.

i don't know a lot of things because the republicans keep all of this nonsense, they keep the public befuddled. washington journal and you should be on the air telling us what programs have been cut. i think they even cut out the nih and that is why so many people died when trump was around. i think you should be on the air every day of the week to find out what the public has to know about what is being cut out. host: appreciate that. we are on the air every day and we try to bring up issues like this with eric katz and other guests. we go to dan calling from georgetown, massachusetts. independent line. caller: thank you for having me on. i have a couple of things. one, just hearing the words

government spending and reducing inflation -- sorry, that does not add up. just baseline. this is typical big government fashion. we have been watching our government be unaccountable for a lot of shady things they have been into, a lot of influencing, a lot of peddling around getting their nose into things they're not supposed to be getting into. this is america, land of freedom. in typical fashion they have this very complex tax system. it is not even very complex how they are taxing different things at different rates. very complex. instead of going after the problem, which is how complex the tax system is with these

little loopholes that can be found by the best accountants and lawyers in the country. it is so big and cumbersome i went to do my kids tax returns and i'm just trying to get the 1040. you cannot do that anymore. you have to do this process online and then they send you to a private tax thing to do the taxes. our government is out of control, and you are hiring a bunch of people to layer onto a complex tax structure most people have no idea how to do and then you will go after people. that is backwards. this is america. we should be working on the complexness of our old tax system that is a mess. the last point, how do you get the title government executives? thank you. host: that is the name of eric katz publication. guest: it is certainly a very

complicated tax system. i think that is part of the objective. while this did not address the tax code, is addressing the loopholes you mentioned in terms of helping the agency have the resources to go after these entities that can afford to have a team of lawyers and accountants exploit those loopholes and find ways around paying what they. the previous irs commissioner talked about being outgunned. the private entities and businesses and individuals have become so good at avoiding paying what they of, and the irs was under resourced to the point they cannot do anything about it

, at least that is the perspective from the irs. what they are trying to do here is even the playing field so they have the internal capacity to go after those individuals and pushback if they are exploiting laws in the way they should not be. host: that collar and a previous one had mentioned the use of government contractors, outside parties in the processing of tax returns. how prevalent is that? guest: is a really interesting point. the irs has gone back and forth several times on outsourcing what they call long-term outstanding debts, people that have not paid with ao for many years. they are aware of that. they have outsourced that and brought it back in, outsourced it again and brought it back in and outsourced it again. this back-and-forth system.

a couple of times it has been deemed not worthwhile or unfairly targeting certain demographics or low income people. now they are back at that. it is too early to say. in some ways it has been helpful but in some ways there are still complaints about the weight is being operationalized. it is something the irs deals with a lot in terms of whether they have to outsource certain functions. host: do we have a number on the amount of uncollected back taxes in the united states? guest: it is up for debate. there is no firm number. the previous irs commissioner said it could be as much as $1 trillion per year. it is at least a few hundred billion dollars. annually. this is trying to get that

closer to zero. host: let's go to linda calling from arkansas on the democrats line. caller: thank you. i wanted to ask, when they had all of these employees, i think he said 10,000 this year, where did they get their training? how long does it take to train an to answer a question. guest: is a good question. it is something the irs certainly has to work on. it is not just so easy as snapping your fingers and then you hire 10,000 people were tens of thousands of people. they have to build up their internal capacity to be able to do recruiting and onboarding and training. there are a lot of hurdles to this process. it is not going to be a walk in the park. it is a huge undertaking to try

to bring on this number of people and to get them trained. the commissioner talked about once they get in their seats, the return on investment is almost immediate because of how quickly they can start doing this work. there is a lengthy training process. it depends on who they are hiring for, the customer service agents. they are going after people who are midcareer and can hit the ground running. host: to that point i wanted to play the comments on who they were hiring to take on this new level of enforcement. here he is at his swearing-in. [video clip] >> we want people to avoid audits in the first place but we understand we must safeguard the nation's tax law and revenue needs, so we will hire and train specially skilled staff to give us much greater capacity to unpack the complex return

filings of high income taxpayers , large corporations, and complex partnerships. let me know something about our civil side compliance employees. despite what some might think or say, these public service within the irs are armed only with calculators and their skills to help us address complex issues. their work will give people confidence all taxpayers, regardless of means, are being treated fairly under the tax laws. host: certainly some of the work those people wonder take is kind of like it api agent in terms of analyzing and counting -- in terms -- a lot of the work those people will undertake is kind of like and fbi agent in terms of analyzing and counting. guest: they talked about hiring more data scientists because they want to do forensic work and have insight on who to

target in audits. you heard the commissioner joke about the agents being armed only with their calculators. that is pushback on this messaging that got out there when the inflation reduction act was being passed that armed irs agents will be knocking on your door and threatening americans. there is a criminal investigations division of the irs, more of a law enforcement type of role. they are armed but that is 3% of the irs. they make clear, jenny warfel made clear they will not be increasing that. host: next is las vegas and annette is on the line. go ahead. caller: good morning. on december 8, 2021, congress

had a meeting about the pandora papers. are you familiar with the pandora papers? guest: i am not sure what that is in reference to? caller: 600 journalists went to 117 countries and this saturday, april 15, will be 120 years. you can google davis brothers lumber company in louisiana. this was a company that was founded 120 years ago and when their tax id number came in 600 journalists went to 117 countries in a lawsuit case and james henry has been an analyst

since 1985 for tax havens and they have estimated that this is $50 trillion in the united states is number two to the cayman islands, who are actually hiding this money right here in the united states with the world's richest elite and the politicians. host: we talked about untaxed, uncollected revenues earlier. we will go to martin in fayetteville, north carolina. republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question i watch c-span every morning, just to get their opinion about things. the other day they had a lady who was an expert on taxes and she claimed the irs only answered 13% of the phone calls made with questions on how to do the taxes.

right after that they had a congressman from california on and she claimed 90% of the phone calls were answered. is anybody that regulates the irs? are there any requirements, what kind of education they have? host: eric touched on that but if you want to repeat what you've heard about where that answer number is these days? guest: as strange as it seems i can say both of those are or were correct. in the last couple of years, 2021, 2022, first of all the number of calls the irs was getting skyrocketed. there were a lot of complications with covid relief funds in the stimulus payments people were getting and how that impacted taxes. the irs was not equipped to handle it and they basically stopped answering the phone most of the time. they answered about 10% or 15%. somewhere in that range.

as the congresswoman was probably alluding to that has picked up and they are more in the 80% to 90% range for answering. that is in part due to the new hires they have brought on. host: what is the committee on capitol hill that is the oversight of the irs? guest: there is senate finance and house ways and means. they both have oversight of the irs. danny warfel recently went before the finance committee and he got bipartisan support. there is bipartisan support in terms of what he brings to the table with his government experience. it is still very partisan in terms of the spending and if it is necessary and what they will use it on. when this plan came out there was pushback from house ways and means in terms of what they were planning to do and the lack of

specificity in terms of what the hiring is going to look like. host: i assume we will see him soon testifying on the 2024 budget before the appropriate committees. guest: we can anticipate that and probably answering for how this money from the inflation reduction act is being spent. host: let's hear from marcy in advance, north carolina. republican line. caller: we are talking about the irs hiring more people. yet they refused to answer how many people are still working out of their homes. they will hire more people, but they refused to make the employee show up to work. if you think they will go after the billionaires you are misled. when you deal with government, nonelected bureaucrats, they are always going to go after the path of least resistance. the billionaires pay huge amounts of money to get the

biggest bang for their buck. who will they go after? we already found an example of this with the obama administration and susan rice. how many of their employees are actually showing up for work? they are using class warfare to get approval from the common citizenry. who will be the biggest loser? the common people. host: do you have an answer for her question? guest: we have been trying to track that down exactly. we do not have the exact figures. it has gone up a lot. when the covid pandemic broke out the irs sent home a vast majority of its and lee's. it was the first -- of its employees. it was the first agency to bring people back to the office because people were mailing things in and they had to have many people there to help

process that and reduce the backlog. they have a mix, they have a hybrid workforce. they talk about in this plan, not just hiring but retention efforts because they have high turnover in the rs workforce spews over and they are worried about a retirement wave happening -- the irs workforce use older and they are worried about a retirement wave happening. it is definitely going to be a permanent thing at the irs going forward. host: i wish we had the picture. this time of year you often see every horizontal service at the rs is covered by stacks of returns that come in. under this new plan you said those paper returns, the plan is to have them digitized. guest: that is the plan. they have been doing that far

more this year than ever before. they have scanned higher rates than they did for tax year 2022. we are now filing for tax year 2022. they are trying to get at -- they are to get that in. the plan is five years from now they will have 100% of paper returns stand when they come in and they can weigh more quickly process those returns. host: one more. it is darlene in clark county, nevada. caller: good morning. listening to you speak regarding the irs staffing. you just said that only 3% of irs agents are actually armed. yet almost one year ago, on march 22, 2022, representative matt gaetz reported $725,000 in

funds were spent on nine millimeters ammo for the irs. if only 3% of your agents are armed, could you explain to me and the rest of the american public why they needed nine millimeters ammo? guest: if you think about how much money the irs spends every year, we are talking about billions of dollars. i think you said $725,000 spent on ammunition? if that is accurate that is a tiny percentage of the irs budget, and that is for the small percentage of irs law enforcement personnel who do carry weapons. that is part of their job is doing criminal investigation. they may carry out arrest warrants and things like that.

that is why that money is spent. host: you can follow eric katz's reporting on this and other issues. thanks for being with us this morning. guest: thanks for having me on. host: still ahead, another half hour, your phone calls. it'll be open forum on washington journal. we can open up our phone lines for you to weigh in. (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 free democrats come in for independents (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ >> lisning to programs on c-span throupan radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker "play c-span radio" and listen to

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a chance to call in and talk about issues in the news. political issues. (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 free democrats, and for independents (202) 748-8002. a couple of stories about u.s. senators. first about tim scott, this is the headline from politico. tim scott announces presidential exploratory committee. he has announced his presidential exploratory committee, clear sign of his announcement to run for the gop ticket. he says "i will never back down in defense of the conservative values that make america exceptional and that is why i am announcing my exploratory committee for president of the united states" scott said in a video that first circulated this morning. another story, dianne feinstein. here is the headline. "dianne feinstein is mia and her

absence is holding up judicial confirmations." at what is clearly a time for confirming judges, senator dianne feinstein of california's prolonged absence from the senate is holding up the process for a number of joe biden's judicial picks. this is reporting from jezebel.com. dianne feinstein has remained at her san francisco home since march 7 and has missed 60 votes of the 82 taken in the senate in 2023 per the san francisco chronicle. as the senate, which has been on recess since march 31, prepares to return on april 17, judiciary committee chair dick durbin said monday dianne feinstein's absence from the senate judiciary committee will impede democrats ability to confirm judicial nominees. let's get your calls. first up is larry in florida on the independent line. thanks for waiting. go ahead.

caller: i was hoping to talk to that guy. that is ok. i was wondering what kind of education do you have or need to be a tax expert at the irs? if you take somebody that makes a million dollars or more, don't you have to be a tax attorney in order to go through the tax codes? that is my question. host: we will go to john in brooklyn on the democrats line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my question is about the country of haiti in the caribbean. i want to know if c-span will be having a forum to discuss solutions on how to help the failed state, especially to discuss about solutions on

eradicating the gangs, the failed government, or the corrupt politicians and oligarchs so that the country seems to have 12 million people and i understand half the country is in extreme poverty. i wonder if there is going to be a c-span forum to discuss on how to help this country be able to get back to a normal status or normal way of living? host: where you normally get most of your news and information about the country of haiti? caller: i tried to get the news as best as possible through, for example, i go to the state government website or i will try to youtube information about what is going on there were basically google information

about the various issues that are going on. i know i have family that originated from haiti and it seems like it is a dire situation in the western hemisphere, and i was hoping there would be solutions to help this country. host: the country of haiti that came up in the pentagon documents that were leaked, this is the reporting in the miami herald, pentagons leaked documents show russia and china's reach in latin america and the caribbean. you can read that article at miami herald.com and the details reporting on those leaks. lake city, tennessee. his judy on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to comment about the ammo and the irs. if the budget is $725,000, and

laissez they buy $1000 worth of ammo. -- and let's say they buy 100 that -- let's say they buy $1000 worth of ammo. that is 725 armed irs agents. that seems like a lot. that would be 20 boxes of ammo each year. that does seem like a lot of money for the irs to be buying ammo. host: next is stephanie on the independent line in workers berke, pennsylvania. caller: i wanted to make sure everybody knows that the tax code is complex. the tax code has nothing to do it is not written at all by the irs.

it is written by congress. congress passes the tax code and makes it complex, especially the republicans, on purpose. the irs only fulfills what congress passes. you can bet when they say there is 11,000 pages to the tax code, every one of those pages contains a giveaway to some super wealthy person. i'm surprised that person you just had on did not know about the pandora papers. you need to have a special person -- have you ever had a special person talking about the pandora papers? that is where all the money is and people need to know about it. host: we certainly did a number of segments when the pandora papers came out.

we had many segments on that when that happened a couple years ago. caller: i will go back and look at the website and find them. thank you so much. they are on the website under pandora papers? host: probably so. caller: thank you very much. host: fresh meadows, new york. democrats line. go ahead, philip. caller: how are you doing? i think of myself as a mcgovern democrat. as a kid i work for humphrey and as i got older mcgovern. i've gone back and forth between candidates. i supported reagan and went back and worked for clinton. i was an advanced man for carter and ramsey clark. i am an old liberal. year-by-year things have gotten worse. trump was a knucklehead, but things were in order before covid.

crime, inflation, unemployment. now there has been a policy failure on every issue. now with china and russia and iran and saudi arabia. now brazil and even france. crime is out of control. inflation is out of control. i live in an expensive area. he go to the supermarket, everything is 25 to 50 and in some cases up to 100 times as expensive. it is just, i do not know how the average person is getting by. it is not good. the thing i wanted to mention is i have a lot of old liberal friends in new york and they are

turning, and surprisingly so. the covid crisis made people who were moderate and liberal say -- i have a lot of friends who are pro-choice, but they cannot be pro-choice about taking the shop where they would lose their jobs. a light bulb went off. why can i ride and root -- and luke the rolex store but i cannot go to church or go to the gym? i think people will be surprised about the vote. people are very worried about the future of america. prime, inflation, foreign policy. u.s. currency is not the lead. we are going to be a mess. that is it. just weighing in. if you lose liberals, if you lose pro-choice liberal women,

you're going to lose the election. the suburban people, i don't know if you know new york too well, their rich suburbs. people are getting carjacked in their driveways the way things happen in south africa for the last 40 years. host: thanks for weighing in. open forum on washington journal. a headline from the hill. representative jennifer wexton announces parkinson's diagnosis. the virginia democrat did that via twitter yesterday. here is the video of jennifer wexton with that announcement. [video clip] >> if there is one thing democrats and republicans can agree on it is that parkinson's disease sucks. today i'm here to tell you i've come to learn this firsthand and that is because i have learned i have parkinson's or what some people call pd for short. i am doing well. i've a positive attitude and the

strong support of 70 family friends and loved ones. the diagnosis is often misunderstood so would like to tell you what it is. is a movement disorder that starts in the brain and affects people's bodies in different ways. over the last two months it has affected my speech and how my mouth moves. it is also affected how i walk and keep my balance. parkinson's is not an untreated disease, cognitive impairment, or a death sentence. you're welcome to emphasize but do not feel sorry for me. i am working with my doctor on a plan that addresses my symptoms. i've been focused on legislation in congress, traveling around my district, and visiting with local businesses, all just like normal. i'm not going to let parkinson's stop me from being me. i am confident that as i work with the doctor to get the treatment i need i can continue being a working mom inactive member of our community, doing what i love.

as a prosecutor, judge, state senator, now is representative in congress. they have to keep serving you for many years. you will seek me have some good days and some days that are not so good. i want you to know this. my head in my heart are committed to serving the people of virginia, especially my constituents in the 10th district. i'm generally a private person when it comes to personal matters but with a parkinson's diagnosis i during the -- i joined the ranks of over 8 million people. nearly 90,000 americans are diagnosed every year. some of those are public figures like michael j fox, janet reno, muhammad ali, and like them i am a fighter. i want my platform to be a voice for those struggling with parkinson's to help bring voices to the search for a cure. i've come forward on world parkinson's day. thank you all that i look

forward to seeing you soon. take care. host: we continue with your calls on open forum. jimmy is in the nation's capital. republican line. caller: i wanted to directly address the woman who said the tax code is shot through with the wealthy written by republicans. in fact there are a lot of tax expenditures that benefit the larger public. tax expenditures are things the government could claim taxes on but could not public policy reasons. think of the home interest reduction. we do not allow people who rent to deduct their payments but we do allow people who have taken out mortgages to do so. that tax benefit goes to help people in the upper reaches of income. other tax expenditures include things like charitable

reductions, payments for your health insurance. i understand the frustration that the tax code is seemingly written by a narrow cabal of people to benefit a smaller cabal of people. it is not out of malevolence from republicans or any other party. it is complicated because it has to be complicated. i work with the tax code. there are areas that could be pared down. the average american spends eight hours every year complying with the tax code, that is an hour of work. making it one party or the other is not helpful. if you want to do something pick a topic and challenge that, whether it is the home mortgage interest reduction or deductions for charitable contributions to religious organizations. i hope i made myself clear. host: absolutely. the conversation we had early with all of the spending and hiring, have you seen it make a

difference? caller: not yet. it has not hit. it is expected to hit. i think it has been a long time coming. it is an open secret that the irs enforcement budget has dropped since 2010. the last time i checked the iris budget dropped by $1 billion. that is part of the reason why people are so dissatisfied with the level of service they are getting. maybe some of the irs enforcement priorities are not aligned with what the general public might want to see. i understand people do not like the irs. no one enjoys paying taxes. there is a carving on the gates of the irs. taxes are the prices we pay for a civilized society. that was written by a supreme court justice in the 1920's and it is true. when people think about paying their taxes they should think about headstart, they should think about the roads, the judiciary system, all the great

stuff their taxes go to pay for, not just some pie-in-the-sky fatcat that is just a popular target of public. host: thanks for your comments. cliff is on the independent line. caller: i would like to make some comments on those that want to disarm the law-abiding public into this country. because there are so many criminals, armed criminals, and criminal attitudes throughout our nation. even in our legislators, both state and federal governments, the very word civilization means following the rules. you had a case the other day where legislators in tennessee would not follow the rules. they are trying to turn it into

chaos. what if everybody in that legislature did the same thing? how would anybody ever get anything done in any civilized manner? even in these peaceful demonstrations that turned into riots, the federal government, if they decided to, could make it a federal offense that anybody in any peaceful demonstration that participated in any riot or way to turn a peaceful demonstration into a riot should come under federal law. it is guaranteed in the constitution that people can peacefully assemble. that could stop a lot of those things if they would just do it but there is an attitude in this country that advocates outlaws,

d.a.'s that will not prosecute criminals, judges that turn them loose. it makes it so important that law-abiding people arm themselves. their first defense is themselves. their threshold defense. sometimes their only defense. too many cases outlaws are protected and not the law-abiding people. host: all right cliff, glad you got through. president biden is in northern ireland. the white house tweeting "hello northern ireland, it is great to be back. the president is beginning in belfast where he will mark the truman's progress since the signing of the belfast good friday agreement 25 years ago and underscore the readiness of the united states to support northern ireland's economic

potential." that speech has happened. reporting from usa today. northern ireland will not go back. president biden calls for sustained peace. joe biden called for northern ireland to "recommit to renewal and repair amid political unrest following the 25th in a bursary of the good friday agreement that ended three decades of civil war. he said northern ireland will not go back, pray to god, biden said during remarks in belfast." julia is on the democrats line in baltimore. caller: thanks for having me. this call is in reference to the irs. there is a two-year tax limitation law in some states for filing tax refunds. also, there needs to be a meeting of the minds for social security and the irs.

host: don't forget to turn down your volume. thank you for your call. riverside, california. david on the republican line. caller: good morning, america. the press secretary for the white house, and she speaks for the president, she said there is no age to limit a child having a so-called sex change. that is worse than if she had said there is no age limit for cigarettes and alcohol which last i checked was 21 years old. if i had told you in nazi germany they had a policy that if a little boy was feminine they would cut off his personal parts and given female hormones, you would say that his people. it is not people to do that in 2023 -- it is not people to do that in 2020 -- it is not eveil il to do that in 2023?

history will remember the child butchers called surgeons. it will be remembered like when we gave lobotomies to the mentally ill. this time we are doing it to children. this is child abuse. how do we know which children to do surgery on? many little girls before puberty are tomboys. maybe 10 years later they will tell us i want to get married and have children. studies have shown after puberty most children are ok with the gender they were born with. the wrath they will feel to know their doctors and their parents and even the president of the united states approved of this abuse? even rachel or richard levine, the deputy health and human services secretary, himself a transgender person, admits he is glad he did not go through with transitioning until later in life and he had his children. he said he cannot imagine not having his children. he was a married man with children because as a child there were no laws like we have now.

if this is how he feels he must stop advocating to do this to children. they deserve the same chance he has. america needs to turn back to the god of the bible for it is too late. in the book of genesis it says god made them male and female in his image. for those that do not accept the bible, science itself proves gender at birth. 50% of all babies born are male and 50% are female with rare exception such as in china when the used to kill millions of girls because of the one child policy, which mercifully is now three child policy. host: one political note before we wrap up the program. chicago to host democratic presidential nominating convention in 2024. democrats awarded their 2020 four presidential nominating convention to chicago on tuesday, opting for the longest -- the largest city in the midwest over the southern metropolis of atlanta. the event, which has been

blessed by president biden, will be held august 19 through august 22, 2024 with the capacity of nearly 21,000. home of the chicago bulls and chicago blackhawks. host: david in illinois is on the democrats line. your next. caller: good morning. i wonder why you let some of these psychopaths go on and on and on. at any rate i want to say that i would love it if biden did not run. it seems like everything i see, when the old liberal called in from new york, all of the young people are much more left. i do not see a lot of people running to conservatism to save them. i think a lot of our problems are conservatism. host: did you vote for joe biden in 2020? caller: i voted against trump.

voting for democrats is like arm reduction. -- is like harm reduction. i wish we would have someone more progressive than biden, for sure. host: to bob in arlington, texas, on the independent line. caller: this is the least controversial call you will get today. i would like to see and get the citizen stuff committee. it is certainly deserving of some recognition. host: thanks for ending the show on a positive note like that. thank you for your calls this morning. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern and hope you are, as well. we will take you live to the bipartisan policy center for a discussion with the vice chair of the fdic's, the federal

deposit insurance corporation, travis hill. he will talk about the role of the fbi see, the recent failures and more. that is getting underway shortly in the nation's capital, live, next on c-span. [indiscernible chattering]

[indiscernible chattering] >> live this morning on c-span, a discussion at the bipartisan policy center in washington, d.c. the vice chair of the fdic see will talk about the agency's role in response to recent bank failures and instability in the financial markets. this is vice chair travis hill's first major policy address since he joined the fdic's.

we are expecting this to get underway shortly. you are watching live coverage on c-span. [indiscernible chattering] [indiscernible chattering]

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[indiscernible chattering] >> welcome to the bipartisan policy center. my name is john, and i am the senior associate director for business and technology and lead our work here. today, we are excited to host fdic's vice chairman travis hill for his first set of major public remarksn