keep the country safe is doing more harm than good. matthew connelly, tonight at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q&a and all podcasts on our free c-span now app. ♪ >> tonight, a hearing on flood insurance in america and steps to rotten the disappointment and flood insurance coverage. watch the hearing at 10 p.m. eastern on c-span. you can also watch on our free mobile video app. ♪ we are joined by tara copp who is associated press pentagon correspondent with us this morning to talk about the massive intelligence leak that has come out about the pentagon about, u.s. national security. describe the documents that have been leaked so far.

normally, what sort of officials would have access to these type -- what is the top security level that these documents would be seen by? guest: thank you for having me this morning. the associated press has been able to view 50 of the documents. the full scope is unknown. we are receiving reports that are as many -- that there are as many as 100 documents out there. every day you see more trickle out. the documents were between secret and top-secret. somewhere for specific people, morning briefing slides sharing known intelligence about what we have seen now, both allies and potential adversaries. the pentagon did not want any of this out in the public domain. you have seen in the days since they have had to do outreach to

governments across the globe to do damage control. host: is there any sense of who is behind the leaks? guest: what we know is that some of the documents were first posted to an online gaming site where people can share memes, private discussions, called discord. these users are from past experience in espionage history are not typically who you would think would be trying to spy on the pentagon. one theory that a couple of experts have noted is this may just have been someone who got access to the documents who posted them online to win an argument on something. the main thing we have learned is the pentagon really does not know how they got up there and how many are up there and what is the scope of the damage. host: what is the pentagon doing to address the leaks? guest: immediately they started

to scrub the list of who has access. one official i talked to said as many as hundreds of people have access to the documents. there are starting to tighten this and how they are collected afterwards. as you saw in these pictures a lot of the documents look like folded pieces of paper, someone had taken the briefing afterwards, folded it up and put it in their pocket to take it. host: that lends more credibility that this is actually a document that someone had first-hand access to. host: potentially-- guest: potentially yes. between the fbi and the department of defense they are working to find out how these things got online. host: you mentioned the ap got to look at 50 documents recently. the headline of your peace --

"leaked documents, a very serious risk to security says the pentagon." where might the biggest security risk be? guest: it could be all over the place. right now the most pressing concern is ukraine's spring offensive. there were a lot of documents about what equipment will get out there, the timeline on that equipment, assessment of battles that could be used by both sides to shift their approach to this critical spring offensive that might determine what shape ukraine is in and what demands it can make to end this war. host: how are the group craniums reacting? it seems they are the most affected are the most prominently mentioned in these documents. guest: the ukrainians and other countries who have been affected have taken a common line that it seems like some of these documents are

fabricated, and that would give everyone enough wiggle room to back off a little bit, to try and take some of the pressure off of these documents and say they were either fabricated or may be inaccurate and give everyonet enough roomo fold -- everyone enough room to fold. host: this could be a disinformation campaign by the ukrainians. it could be a disinformation campaign by the russians. guest: another security expert i talked to to get these documents out of the pentagon, you have to be a professional at the level of security access to get to these documents, but then you would have to have enough of an agenda to get it out into the mainstream. that might be a very limited pool of people. thru will be looking -- they will be looking at who may have had motivations to do that. they will have to figure out how to prevent this in the future,

and looking at those motivations will be a key factor. host: there are echoes of previous high profile leaks. you mentioned the online gaming site discord. where does it go from there? how does that wind up reported in the associated press? guest: if it had stayed in this private discord chat, which some media outlets reported may be a couple thousand people having these private discussions about videogames games and other cultural issues, maybe they would never have seen the light of day, but as happens with the internet, someone put them in a bigger group someone saw those shots, put them in a bigger group and eventually they ended up on twitter. you on musket said this yesterday, nothing on the internet ever really goes away. it lives in perpetuity as social

media sites move on and on. host: do you anticipate seeing more documents? host: guest: that is -- guest: that is a big question. it is a question for us. it is a question for the pentagon. nobody knows how many document were takens. nobody knows how many documents were uploaded. has this had a chilling effect now where people will not post them or is there an active hunt out there to see how much can be publicized and exploited? host: our guest is tara copp. she covers pentagon with the associated press. we welcome your calls and comments on this topic. (202) 748-8001 is the line for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. for independents and all others, (202) 748-8002. kirby addressed to the issue of potential further leaks. here is what he said.

[video clip] >> the u.s. government is crouching, waiting for the next bombshell to hit telegram are twitter, you are in a position where you do not know how many documents will be published? >> we don't know what is out there, james. we don't know who is responsible for this and we do not know if they have more that they intend to post so we are watching this and monitoring it as best we can but the truth and the honest answer to your question is we don't know. is that a matter of concern to us? it is. host: a lot of we don't know's there. guest: you heard those same "we don't know's" at the press conference yesterday. almost all of the questions were focused on these documents and he had to keep going back to the

fact that we don't know. they have started this internal review where they test a small group of people to focus in on the documents and figure out the full scope of the program. -- full scope of the problem. that scope is limited but we have already seen that there are documents dated both before and after that range. an official i spoke to this morning said that is just what they have reviewed this morning. host: you have seen incidents of leaks come up on a scale, where do you think this falls in the things that you have experienced? guest: in terms of its implications and how many international partners we have to do damage control with, this is huge. host: do you think this will mean for the pentagon less access for reporters, less

access for others who want to get information? guest: reporters don't typically get to go to classified briefings, so i wouldn't worry about that part of it, but i think there will be a real look. as you know the idea of over classification of the pentagon has been an issue for a long time and there are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people have security clearances. does everyone of those people need access? do they need to know? do they need security access? host: the whole idea, and you mentioned, that there are actual, physical documents in an age where a lot of us do not have -- i have them in front of me here but a lot of us do not have documents to fold. a lot of what you are describing of what is posted online are photos of folded documents. guest: that is what may have

created the opportunity. they may get a briefing and a myriad of ways. it may be through secure video teleconference. it may be through an online powerpoint. may be through a tablet they are given access to it if they are in a place where they cannot access those electronic means they may get a briefing book and that seems to be where this vulnerability lies. host: i want to ask you one other topic on the report last week by the administration on the withdrawal from afghanistan. the headline from nbc says "the biden administration blames the trump administration for the withdrawal from afghanistan. what is the message from the administration? guest: there was not a real scrub of accountability and that 12 page report that was released last week. i think the administration wanted to emphasize that they were given a set of conditions that they had to react to.

that is partially true. the former trump administration had agreements that cornered them or at least limited their options, but it any given time president biden could have changed his mind and said " we will leave a residual force." as that summer moved on, there was a momentum that this was going to happen regardless, and when it did happen and the taliban started to take advantage of that and sees more parts of the country, the final the terrier ration went very rapidly. host: let's get to calls. let's start with ron in michigan on the independent line. good morning. caller: tara, look, i have two questions. one is some of these documents, perhaps disseminated from the different presidentd that were -- presidents that were recently challenged for all of the documents that were in their

homes, especially trump. that is number one. number two, i heard on the news, and correct me if i am wrong, that the egyptians are selling ammunition based on the information that was released from the documents that were out there, selling ammunition to the russians just to keep us from targeting them. i would like to know if there is truth to either or. please tell me. guest: thank you for the question. on your first question, the dates of these documents from late february to early march of 2023 suggest that they would not have been part of that trove of documents that was taken from former president trump's estate in florida. on the second question, the reports on the egyptians sales and all of the other countries too that have been implicated in these documentd, what you are

seeing -- documents, what you are seeing are widespread denials that the information in the leaked documents are not true. host: mac in hawaii on the independent line, good morning. caller: i'm just curious. in hawaii there are a lot of people who have access st different levels -- at different levels of security for different reasons, different facilities, different subcontracting companies. one thing i have experienced is friends who had access is that it is not really a super uniform technology. the more famous leaking

situations like snowden shows us that there are a lot of methodologies to bring this information outside. i am just curious if any presidency will ever make an effort to come up with a more utilized method to control this and start declassified materials that you not have been classified to begin with? thanks. guest: thank you for the question. the department of defense has been trying to take an overall look at declassified material and the over classification of material. you have seen congress press this issue we will have documents that are labeled secret that you see in an open source is somewhere else. as far as the methodologies you were talking about, one of the tripping points furred the dod is -- for the dod is that it is

such a big organization. all of these people working in different locations around the world have different levels of connectivity. one person may have great internet access. others may have spotty internet access, which requires a different form of communication. it is hard to create a uniform approach to securing all of this. right now what you have seen and in years past is emphasizing to the workforce the importance of securing information. host: i saw a story on the bbc this morning, leak shows western special forces on the ground, the u.k. is among a number of other countries whose special forces are operating inside. the bbc said that it has confirmed has been the subject of wide speculation for over a year. according to the document,

the u.k. has the largest contingent of special forces in ukraine. is there any indication that the u.s. has any special forces in ukraine? guest: the same document that that report is referring to reveals that there is a small number of u.s. forces there. i have been digging into this, and some of the officials we have talked to have suggested that this is just the force that was planned to support the bc in their attaché role, that there is -- the embassy in their attaché role, but the department of defense have emphasized that there are no u.s. troops in any combat support roles. they are not going outside the wire. even the inspectors we have looking at the accountability for weapons systems, they are not going to those places to see did this air defense system survive. host: do you think the same

thing holds true for nato forces? guest: i don't know. host: let's go to dj in weatherford, texas. dj, go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i i'm curious why when we get into highly intelligent type situations and we are looking for answers and we are digging for news, why is washington journal, why are you interviewing another reporter? rather than this reporter from the associated press going and showing us an interview of a high level intelligence person talking about this? host: part of the reason is we

do ask high-level intelligence people. tara copp, this is her beat and has been for a long time covering the pentagon, covering stories like this, covering what officials say in front of the camera and behind the scenes. that is why our guest is with us this morning. guest: i think these ongoing discussions between reporters and officials are necessary to help shed light on what this entire leaked documents issue is, whether it is leaked documents or a tiny spy balloon, having all the voices at the table hopes inform the public. host: george calling from tennessee, good morning. caller: this is george from tennessee. there has been more and more and more of this intelligence leak. my belief is you can blame one

person for this. that is the last administration. host: do you think the leaks are any worse in this administration? the trump administration,? the obama administration? guest: each administration has had leaks, they have been situational and it is usually looking at what has motivated that person or persons to leak. we have had major online leaks before. you mentioned earlier in this interview, there have even be in other leaks on online gaming platforms of weapons and systems that got into the hands of people who were not trying to spy on the government. they were trying to win an argument over whether a tank in an argument was correctly designed. it is looking outweighs the

pentagon can better secure a love this classified information. host: our lines are (202) 748-8001. that is the republican line. (202) 748-8000 for democrats, and for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. i had a question for you, tara, from matt on twitter who said "i have heard some edits of the leaked docs -- do they indicate russia as a source?' guest: possibly. some of the slides looks like they had been doctored or the numbers have been changed, which was walking a tight rope for them because they are saying " this is our document." if you say the document looks

like it has been changed, then you say that it is familiar. this is something the pentagon has been suggesting for the last few days as it assesses the damage. it could be that someone messed with the numbers. these are the big unknowns in this story. host: here is jen in the martin, illinois, independent line. caller: hello. i was just wondering if you really date this back to the wikileaks issues and there was even a -- from my standpoint this seems more like a russian intelligence trying to make or keep nato and us off balance when it comes to our efforts in the ukraine. i just wondered what your guest: thoughts might be. guest:the experts i have -- i

just wondered what your thoughts might be. guest: the experts i have spoken to have suggested that may be a possibility. one reason the documents may have been posted online is to weaken the public' wills to keep giving the ukraine all these weapons. the defense department is looking for a motive. host: have we seen any subtle or significant policy change on the part of the u.s., on the part of the ukrainians because of these leaks? guest: it has only been a couple of days since they have been out publicly, but they have been circulating online for weeks and that is really the biggest concern. if you have top secret documents out there on the web, and you do not know who has been able to view them in the weeks that they have been there, just how much -- what tactics were changed in the interim before the u.s. seems to have come aware that they were out there? host: from jimbo in california

-- " does your guest reason that the leak is more embarrassing then a national security problem?" guest: i have heard split views on this. it won't be that big of a deal, this won't change ukraine's strategy for the spring offensive. they have their plan, those warplanes are tightly held, that is not going to change anything. one of the documents describes how u.s. air defenses are dwindling, and the u.s. has been pushing systems into ukraine, but they are being used at such a high rate that ukraine might run out. host: it seems to be an ongoing problem, the demand of the ukrainian government for more munitions and the ability of countries like the u.s. who just

announced additional funding for ammunition and firearms, it seems like it is taking a lot of capacity for u.s. industry to respond to this. host: -- guest: it is. you have seen general milley and secretary austin scour the globe with allies defined what air defense systems can be sourced. germany has given the iris t air defense systems. the u.s. will soon send patriots . arming all of those and providing munitions and spare parts, those dig deeper into the different levels of the supply chain that was not ready for this huge conventional land war. host: the part of the leaks talking about egypt and possibly

supplying arms to russia -- on the russian side, are they to suffering from ammunition and arms shortages? guest: what some of the documents have suggested and as we have been told and general milley has said, the russians have taken on substantial losses particularly with their ground forces. you have seen calls for replacements to come in. you have seen heavy use of the bagna group. what you have not seen his use of russia's fighter jets. one of the theories is that they may be holding those in >> believe this to take you live to remarks -- by president zelenskyy to the imf and world bank on c-span.