>> this morning on washington journal, we will take your phone calls live to discuss today's biggest headlines, also hannah from the national alliance on mental illness talks about gun violence and red flag laws. and then senior vice president and director of women's health policy at the k ff discusses the implications of dueling federal court rulings on medication abortion pill's and the drug approval authority. host: as monthly government reports pain one picture, the experience of americans show another. people are working to stay afloat. seven out of 10 people say they are stressed about personal finances at about half say their

overall financial stress has increased since before the pandemic. some of that stress is being able to pay monthly bills. it is not surprising that across many income levels, a surprising number of people are living paycheck-to-paycheck. this is april 14 -- april 13, .23. we will ask this first hour if you are living paycheck-to-paycheck. if you are making under $30,000 a year, the line is (202) 748-8000. between $30,000 and $50,000, (202) 748-8001. and between 50000 and $100,000, (202) 748-8002. for over $100,000, (202) 748-8003. that is also our text line. send us your thoughts on twitter or instagram @cspanwj.

the answer to the question for you may be no, you are living paycheck-to-paycheck. maybe monthly social security or monthly retirement or your pension pan -- plan. you feel stressed about the way things are going in the economy? wesked a question based on a survey fromnbc, are you living paycheck-to-paycheck echo their headline, with inflation ubbornly high, 50% of americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck. more than half. roughly 70% say they fe stressed about their finances. mostly due to inflation, economic uncertainty and rising interest rates. the cost of basic household expenses in the report in this

survey, rent, groceries a utilities, are all higher than a year ago, weakening purchasing power. nearly 6 ofndents cited inflation as trce of their stress,lowed by economy wide instability, inflation -- and a lack of savings. this was conducted before the news yesterday of easing inflation. this is the washington post this morning. inflation is easing, why are people noticing? inflation at its lowest level, they write, you nearly two years, but americans are not feeling much better. new figures released wednesday show that inflation eased in march with prices inching up .1% from a month earlier.

and 5% from a year ago. another key measure, a and energy prices rose 5.6 year-over-year. opening question, do you feel you are living paycheck-to-paycheck? (202) 748-8000 is the line for those making under $30,000. if you are between 31000 and $50,000, it is (202) 748-8001. if it is between 51000 and $100,000, it is (202) 748-8002 and for those making over $100,000 a year annually the line is (202) 748-8003. at a recent hearing on starbucks, featuring ceo howard schultz, senator bernie sanders spoke with folks who worked at starbucks and how the economy was affecting them. >> do people know they are going to have 40 hours, 20 hours?

how many hours am i going to be working in a week? >> thank you for your question. to address your first question, $15 an hour is not enough to pay bills and actually survive in this world today as we know it. we often struggle, one thing i hear from my partners is i can't pay my light bill and put gas in my car the same time, or put gas in my car at the same time and put groceries. imagine having to ration the things you need to survive. another point i'm glad you brought up is the hour requirement to obtain benefits. i have never had a problem qualifying for benefits in four years until now, i was taken off the benefit policies because i have not been scheduled the appropriate hours or close to my availability for the better part -- >> explain that to the world.

if i am your supervisor, i can reduce your work week. and because i reduced your work week you lose your benefits. >> yes sir. we have a requirement per week, it is 20 hours per week. it was lowered due to covid but that has believe since been removed. my hours were cut. a little before christmas last year. so i recently lost my benefits because of that requirement. having your benefits tied to your hours when you don't get to determine the hours you work doesn't seem conducive in my opinion. host: the reaction to the news yesterday about the consumer price index, the downturn in the consumer price index, eric schmitt, republican senator from missouri tweeted this. inflation has risen, 15.4% since

biden took office and has remained above 5% for 23 consecutive months. working-class missourians are hurting. yahoo! finance had a recent report on groceries. they headline. war than half of americans would not be able to afford their bills and groceries if they lost their job. what would your immediate concern, if you lost your job, in a survey, more than half of overall americans say they would not be able to afford bills and groceries. if americans lost 37% of overall americans surveyed, paying their bills would be an immediate concern. the percentage breakdown is consistently high across all age groups. those who would be impacted are ages 45 to 54 and ages of 65 and older. we have set up our phone lines a

little differently by income bracket. her conversation with you, are you feeling like you are living paycheck-to-paycheck? (202) 748-8000 the line for those making under $30,000 a year. (202) 748-8001 between $31,000 and 50,000. between 51000 and $100 -- $100,000, (202) 748-8002 and more than that, (202) 748-8003. stephanie is on the line in brooklyn, new york. caller: yes, good morning. i am calling because i am retired and i am living as you say on a fixed income now. i will tell you a story. when i was working for new york city hospitals, the city hospital in the 80's, i started in my early 20's.

i was making good money. i was able to get an apartment at a young age. i was able to pay my rent with one check. have a little left over and with the next paycheck, i had money. and i was able to do what i had to do. at that time i was able to establish three thank you counts. now you can't do that. i hear young kids that are working. they are not able to obtain an apartment. they still live with their parents because it is very hard because of the money. so now we are not living like we are supposed to. nobody lives comfortably anymore. there is no middle class. it is gone. it is the working who wore and the rich -- working poor and the

rich. there are no longer mom-and-pop shops. this country has changed so much with corporate greed. they say capitalism is good but it is not good for everybody. not for the working people as our money does not go into wall street. have a good day. host: i appreciate that. we will go on to brian on the under $30,000 line calling from minnesota. caller: yes, i'm 66 years old. i am living from paycheck-to-paycheck. i am on social security. probably about -- maybe a little over $12,000 a year. most of my expenses are rent, utilities, food.

i have a deduction of medicare, $150 a month. i am not stressed because what i do is if i can afford it, i don't have a car, i ride around on a bicycle. i am doing the best i can. so i wanted to say to americans, if you can't afford it, you've got to make changes. host: our previous color said nobody lives comfortably anymore. do you feel you live comfortably? caller: yeah, i live comfortable. i can walk, see and hear. my arthritis is getting to me. if i can't pay my bills i will try to find work again but i will be probably the last

applicant to be hired because i am old. host: there is another thing you mentioned, your arthritis. in the past year or so have you had medical bills or emergency bills? you don't have a car, but bills that surprise you that you were not able to pay? caller: i don't have any. i just take ibuprofen once in a while. host: we will go to greg in fayetteville, north carolina. good morning. caller: i am not living paycheck-to-paycheck. however, that is because i'm working two jobs. some that is not being talked enough about is the cost of rent . my rent went up $180 a month which is a drastic increase.

shopping around to other places is not better. the other part is also, the uncertainty and it does not look like it is going to get better in the next couple of years even though inflation has gone down a little. there is a lot of pessimism about what the economy is going to be doing which does not help things. so i am thankful i'm not living paycheck-to-paycheck. but again, i am having to work two jobs to make that happen. host: how old are you? caller: i'm 63. host: i appreciate it. andrew from brooklyn heights, ohio. hi there. caller: i wanted to call in with the project, i would love to know what is being done to

address global poverty issues/ . host: sure, go ahead. caller: what we can do domestically speaking is important, but i think one of the most foundational he important things to building a stronger economy is international investment. i believe the way to reduce global poverty, by creating better infrastructure abroad, we can increase domestic jobs and investment here and i don't think that is being talked about to a great deal. host: what are some of the suggestions that they bring forward in your view? the best suggestions? caller: just increasing awareness so that more can be made and increasing access to

education. one of the leave -- leading causes of global poverty is a literacy rates throughout the world. --illiteracy rates through the world. there is something known as the read act signed in 2017 and they are looking to get people involved with reauthorizing that act, which provides $5 million to increase global literacy rates and address systemic poverty based on inability to communicate stemming from educational problems around the world. host: one of our previous callers mentioned uncertainty in the economy. the cnbc has another survey. your money financial confidence survey. they say just 13% of americans say they are confident in

america's banking system. this is after the collapse of silicon valley bank. they banking crisis is not the only stressor on people's minds. seven and 10 people are stressed about their personal finances and about half say their overall financial stress has increased since before the covid-19 pandemic. 58% of americans describe themselves as living paycheck-to-paycheck. we are focusing on this this morning and the wake of the consumer price index numbers asking are you living paycheck-to-paycheck and how the economy is doing. (202) 748-8000 for folks making under $30,000 a year. between 31000 and $50,000, (202) 748-8001. between $51,000 a year and $100,000 a year, (202) 748-8002.

and more than that, (202) 748-8003. mike pence recently talked about the economy. >> the advantage we have having returned to private life and going back home to indiana, people stop and talk to us about what has happened in their lives in ways that comes more difficult when you are in elected office. american people are hurting. they are deeply concerned about the future of their kids and grandkids. i talked to a woman at a gas station in indiana not long ago. two little kids in the back of the car. it was a nice little sedan, nothing fancy. and i said how are you making out with the gas prices?? she said i only have to go to the food bank once a week.

i said are you and your husband out of work? she said no, we both work but with the prices going up the way they are for groceries and gasoline, we have had to go to the food bank. but she said the people are very nice. you look at the statistics and national review, how many americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck. that is for the american people to focus on. host: former vice president mike pence back in march. the response to our opening question on washington journal, on social media and via text to (202) 748-8003. this one says i have a plan, i get social security, my union pension almost the same as social security. i have between $3000 and $4000 in the bank every month, i have

been helping my children pay their bills. working a good union job has helped me all my life says joe in hartford, kentucky. steven in gladstone, michigan. somehow i managed a mortgage under the poverty line but why are groceries going up? diesel fuel is rising. i work full-time but make enough that i don't get any assistance. i need dental work and home repairs but i can't think about addressing it. it is stressful. prices go up but wages are stagnant and have been since -- life expectancy declines in the u.s. is an oligarchy and the oligarchs are without mercy. that is in philadelphia. and talking about legislation and a bill he is proposing, the average cost of childcare he says is $60,000 a year. many teachers are paid unlivable

wages. the median annual wage for childcare workers in 2021 was $27,680. my bill will make care more affordable and give the wages they deserve. next is terry. go ahead. caller: i am 68 years old, i broke my back twice and i still have to get out and go to work. on the days off i still have to scrap metal. i can't take a day off even in the rain. i sit and worry about the bills and my wife does the same thing. it just ain't right. i'm supposed to be able to relax at my age, not worry. i am just tired of worrying about everything. it is one thing after another. host: how old did you say you

were? caller: i am 68. my wife is 65. we both have to work and the days off, mornings off i haul scrap metal just to make gas. sometimes i don't even get to do that. host: do you have month-to-month bills that don't go unpaid? caller: yes, i do. host: do you postpone that or pay some? how do you handle it? caller: i do what i can and keep going until i run out of money. i'm sitting at the walmart now and i've got one i've got to come up with. i will cross that bridge when i get to it.

guest: do you feel dusty line host: do you feel but because of your age it is harder to get a job that will pay more? caller: yes. they don't is permanent but you put down 68 and we can't find nothing for you to do. i put in an application at a bakery and they said we can't help you right now. i put in three different applications in cleveland and they said we can't do anything with you right now. host: yeah. good luck, terry. we appreciate you calling and sharing your experience with the washington journal audience. joe is next in washington, d.c.. hello. caller: good morning. two points. for me personally, i'm 27, i have a masters degree, i work in the public schools in

washington, d.c., i work for the county in maryland. i am lucky to work in a school system that does pay quite a bit more than i would say the average teacher salary or speech pathologist -- i am a speech therapist. the average salary in the state and around the country. but the cost of living in the washington, d.c. area is so high, i currently live in d.c. and people tell me you should try moving out to the county, rent will be cheaper. that is just not the case. anywhere i would want to live that would be around this area that would make it easy for me to commute to work, the rent is about the same, $2000 or $3000 a month. i live with my partner and a dog so we have to have a certain amount of space. rent is unbelievable and never mind saving enough money to buy property. i can't even conceptualize that.

the other point i wanted to make is that all through high school and college i worked at a grocery store. much like the caller previous to me, most of my colleagues at the grocery store that i worked at were folks who were quote unquote retired who had to work more hours and i was just to make ends meet. they were in their 60's, 70's, 80's in some parts. they were not able to stop working the way i think they saw their parents able to stop in their 60's and retire. that social contract has been broken. host: you are a teacher in the suburbs in the washington, d.c. suburbs. with a masters degree. are you hoping to make teaching your lifelong career? caller: yes, i'm a speech therapist, i am paid like a

teacher and that has always been the plan. that is the problem, i am looking now to get out of schools and go into private practice or the medical system because the amount of stress it is to work in a public school, the pay and workload is not doable. host: appreciate your experience. he mentioned rents, not being able to think about buying a home. the hill has a report, wyatt millennials are becoming homeowners later than their grandparents. . there now a homeowner majority generation, a milestone achieved amid a pandemic and a unsteady housing market. they have added millions to the homeowner ranks in the last decade and reached 18.2 million owners last year. according to data from this website. but the population of americans

born between 1981 and 1996 reached the hallmark of the american dream later than their parents and grandparents. their average age is 34, gen-x and baby boomers received this at 32 and 30 respectively. there was a belief that millennials were content renting , that is false and millennials were delaying life moments compared to prior generations says allie wolf in this report from the hill. jeff in acton, massachusetts. caller: how you doing? one thing i wanted to say about low income situation, that is not -- that your average work life might be 40 plus years.

the problem is you can't save any money. your job may not pay you enough to save. but if you can save $100 a month for 40 years and put it in a 401(k) plan, 10, 20, 50 or 100% per year or something for the next 40 years you can save quite a bit. and have a nest egg for retirement. the other thing is debt. try to pay your debt every month. don't let it ride on a credit card because the 10%, 15% of interest you are paying is going out of your pocket into somebody else. those are my points. thanks. host: the recent debate on hr-1, the republican house energy bill, the majority leader spoke

about how this would boost the economy. >> we ought to be focused on helping low income families were struggling. families across america are struggling under the weight of high inflation. all of the spending that has come out of washington under president biden, but led and driven by this anti-american energy policy we have seen from president biden that has dramatically increased costs on american families. how are people getting hit by president biden's anti-american energy prices? every time you go to the pump, as prices are 50% more. that takes money out of families paychecks every week when they go to fill up their vehicle. you look at the utility bills people are paying. 25% more in some areas of the country, they are paying more for their utility bills, making it harder to heat their homes in the cold winter.

summer, people want to turn on the air conditioning and pay more. that takes money out of their pocket. when you look at what president biden passed last year, he passed a $6 billion tax increase on natural gas. which is one of the drivers of higher electricity bills. the good news is republicans have answered the pleas families have been raising by bringing the lower energy cost act to the floor. hr-1 is focused on helping families who have been struggling and saying for the last two years, is anybody in washington looking out for families living paycheck-to-paycheck who can't make ends meet? who are sick and tired of runaway inflation in higher costs? host: republican majority leader steve scalise in the late march debate on that bill. the report on the consumer price index in these and seated press, their headline, cheaper gas and

food provides relief from inflation. was consumer inflation eased in march, with less increase in gas and food providing relief. if prices are still rising fast enough to keep the federal reserve on track to raise interest rates one more time in bag, the government said consumer prices rose -- the smallest increase since september. measured from a year earlier, prices up just 5% in march, down sharply from february, 6% year-over-year increase and the mildest rise in over two years. much of this resulted in price decline such as in gas, used cars and furniture which was a year after the russian and gratian -- invasion in ukraine. good morning. you are the air. caller: yes, i'm living

paycheck-to-paycheck. whole it seems like ever since covid and inflation, you can't afford to do anything. you can't afford to do the extra thing except to go on vacation with summer coming up. host: what work do you do? caller: i am a program manager for afterschool programs and i do in-home care two days a week. host: and you are on the under $30,000 line. how old are you? caller: i am 23. host: what are you trying to do to change that situation? caller: the only solution is to work more. it seems like. every time you turn around there is a new charge or bills going up, rent going higher. host: host: john in new york on

the under $30,000 line. hello. caller: good morning. i am 83 years old and living on -- i'm retired and living on the salary i made in the 60's. in the prices today are -- in the 2000's, it is difficult. rent is high. everything is high. the government has to do something to control all of these prices. host: you are getting most of your income through social security or retirement? caller: i have no retirement. i had an accident back then. i had to retire. in the salary i am making, below

the poverty level, what i'm getting from social security. there has to be some help somewhere. otherwise everybody is going to get thrown out. my last landlord raise my rent $2000. illegal eviction. host: host: he raised your rent $2000? caller: right, to get rid of me as a tenant. he knows i could not pay and i would have to move. he got this illegal eviction. there are checks to get rid of people. it is very difficult. thank you very much. host: calling from new york.

the cover story on the front page of the new york post is about folks leaving new york city. new yorkers flee over housing and tax prices, quote the city literally spit us out. about 20 -- 27% are moving out of the empire state in the next five years with 30% saying they wish they lived somewhere else. according to a poll from siena college research institute released on wednesday. affordability, ease of retirement, politics and crime and safety, the biggest gripes. the most satisfied work republicans, independents, black people and those earning under $50,000 a year. read more at nypost.com. our opening question on washington journal is are you living paycheck-to-paycheck? we have broken our lines out by

income level. if you are making under $30,000 annually, the line is (202) 748-8000. between that and 50,000, (202) 748-8001. 51,000 to $100,000 a year, (202) 748-8002 and over 100 thousand dollars is the same as our text line, (202) 748-8003. in pennsylvania, next. caller: i am on the $31,000 bracket. i work for a parts store delivering parts. we barely make it. most of it comes back from groceries, gas. our gas prices went up $.10.

i don't know where it was. the other thing is anything we had, the credit cards we were paying on, they raised the interest. i do not know they could do that. the interest was 9%. all of a sudden it is 18%. the more money you put into stuff, the less you are getting back. right now, we can just barely make it. the last administration we were living good, we had money in the savings account, and right now we are driving an old car and we are going to have it for quite a while. i don't know what to say. i think one of the biggest problems i see is our economy -- it is a constant raise in taxes and constant spending money that we don't have. i'm talking about our government.

state, local and everyone. they keep spending money. and we the taxpayer have to bear the burden of paying that money back. host: how did you get by during covid? was government relief helpful? caller: we got the relief checks but it was like once. i have a bad thing about covid because it was so badly handled and in pennsylvania, our governor was closing everything down, shut this down. we kept saying why are you closing our businesses? that is where you get your tax money and where people make a living. all but every time we turn around with this. it was controlling us. it was badly handled. covid did not help us. the relief checks did not really help much. by the time we got them the prices were going up or you could not spend them half the time.

you could not go to the store and buy stuff because the stores were not open. it was like a crazy thing, giving a place to spend it. host: brian, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm 55, i don't have children, i have a partner, we have been together 39 years. i have been thinking about these topics for a long time. i don't have an education. i graduated high school with a d-. some people might describe me as intelligent, i don't know. i think i have some intelligence. i would like to give a few points to mind on this subject. corporations are not people. we need to get back to that. people are people, they vote and they do their thing.

corporations don't. it is destructive. we do need a flat tax. it has been a long time. the conversation has been out there for a long time and we need to get away from this up and down form of taxation. everybody pays taxes, everybody pays the same tax and everything gets taxed. no one is exempt. churches, no one is exempt. profit sharing. that is a big one. this will get the biggest fight from people and organizations and corporations. profit sharing is required now. one of the things about educating a society is you make people smarter. and they are paying attention closer. they see there are inequities and they get upset. and they start to rebel. and then you have systemic problems. those problems, they can only be

solved by sharing money. that is the way i see it. you have to share the money. people's natural inclination to be greedy is evident. we see it everywhere. host: tell us what kind of work you do. caller: yeah, that is a sore subject. ironically, my dad retired in mexico. i love going to see him, i love being around him and i love the mexican people. but in my day they brought people in from mexico and took the carpentry jobs away from me. they brought the wage down significantly. i was making $17 an hour as a carpenter, as a framer and they brought these mexican teams and, knocked it down to nine and then six. i went from $17 an hour to having vast experience to about

10 to $12. the last part is, when people get social security, they need to be able to keep their money. they can't get taxed. you can't tax them. you need to allow them to work. and receive full social security. a lot of people are telling us what their circumstances are, and they are all valid. but these are thoughts i have had for a long time. host: i'm glad you got through with it. we will go to farmington, mission 10. -- farmington, michigan. chuck is on the line. caller: i want to comment on a couple of things. we have people in washington that have no experience at any job level.

the transportation secretary -- we lost a billion dollars in the state of michigan due to a governor who is now the secretary of the great battery debate. all we need to do is listen to her again. that is jennifer granholm. we need to straighten it out and get people back in washington that have some common sense. thank you. god bless america. host: annie in sugar grove, north carolina. caller: good morning, you caught me in the middle of my cup of coffee. i want to talk about -- that is ok. i want to talk about ronnie

mcmullen, the ceo of kroger. they own fred meyer, ralphs, king soopers, qsc, i don't know what that stands for. and the former senator rob portman from cincinnati where kroger is headquartered, he thinks kroger acquiring albertsons will lower prices. the ceo of kroger, ronnie mcmullen in 2019 made $14.2 million so that comes out to approximately $56,800 a day. in 2020, he made $20.6 million that year and if we are lucky, we make -- we work 60 days a year. i base this on working 250 days

so i divided that into the 20.6 million dollars he made in 2020 and that equaled $82,400 a day. food prices are not high because of joe biden. i can't get over this. in 2021, your host john, he brought this to my attention. it went down in 2021. down to $17 million is what he made. he made $17 million in 2021, $68,000 a day. he does not even pay into social security for more than two or three days. speaking of social security, yes, ronald reagan did that and i just did my taxes because i have a small pension and a 401(k) and i pay more taxes than donald trump. it is unbelievable.

i pray -- i pay more taxes probably than my will to millionaire senator tom. the idea that this is all joe biden's fault among let's look at the profit the oil companies are making. $46 billion for exxon, $59 billion for shell, the list goes on and on. these corporations like the guy before me said, they are not people. we are the people and we are tired of these corporations just making us into mincemeat. and let's talk about landlords. there is no rent control. only four or five states have it. my landlord, because he wants to own the libs, raise my rent $100. just like that. it is this agreed like someone spoke about. if anyone feels like calling the headquarters for kroger, there is their phone number.

513-762-4000. did you have a question? [indiscernible] -- host: i did not but i preach at you. treasury secretary janet yellen talked about the monetary fund and the outlook for the global economy. >> i do think the outlook is reasonable. it certainly is stronger, brighter than the last time we had the annual meetings in october. global growth projections are higher than they were at that time. we are seeing diminished inflationary projections and diminished inflation in some parts of the world. commodity prices have eased, supply chain snarls are being resolved.

the financial system has generally proven quite resilient. as i mentioned, the united states is doing extremely well economically with inflation coming down in a strong labor market. europe is doing better than was feared at the time of our last meeting. i would not overdo the negativity about the global economy. countries have proven resilient, the number of emerging markets. and lower income countries continued to show recently growth. some are benefiting from improvement to near terms of trade and they have built the buffers and taken strong macroeconomic policy actions. i think we should be more

positive. there are risks. many of them relate to russia's war against ukraine. and the global outlook. i think the single best thing we could do to improve the global outlook would be to and that -- end that barbaric war, but i think the outlook is reasonably right. host: the treasury secretary on tuesday, consumer price index numbers, a slower increase in rch came out yesterday. the wall street journal opinion writers not pleased with the way the economy looks, writing that president biden boasted that wages are higher than nine months ago after accounting for inflation. real wages are still down .7% from march 2022. they are down since the president took office. the average american has not had a raise over the course of his

administration. this is the real story, they write. a price rise of 5% rather than 91%, it is not deflation. prices are rising but not as fast. the overall standard of living is lower and americans are paying more nearly everything. comments on our opening question, are you living paycheck-to-paycheck? on twitter, connie in oregon says yes and so are all of our family and we are making $80,000 a year. this tweets as i work in the grocery industry so i see price fluctuations and discounts help. but since i was hospitalized paycheck-to-paycheck was a reality. i will be 60 in a few months and the financial hurting is real. this one says the huge chunk of money people are paying out his rent.

jobs are just not increasing, the working class income. tom from omaha, nebraska. thanks for waiting. caller: hi. i consent guys with the people dealing with paycheck-to-paycheck. the best thing that happened to me is i decided to serve my country and joined the marine corps. i am 75. i am living on retirement from the post office and i recently have been classified as 100% disabled. basically what i'm saying is you have to serve your country, you won't be bellyaching later. that is what is helping me. thank you. host: carrie is in salem, oregon on the under $30,000 line. caller: hi. i agree with a lot of the people

who called earlier. something i notice where i live, i have noticed it for the last few years. i live in salem, the capital of oregon. they just keep building more and more really big apartment complexes. everywhere. anytime there is a piece of land. and i mean a tiny piece of land, up goes a big apartment complex. i have seen an old farm recently and the apartments come right up to the street. it is just everywhere and they are big complexes, hundreds of apartments. they are very expensive. they make them and claim it is affordable housing. that is why they are making them. we have a shortage of affordable housing. they are playing off the homeless situation. but there is no way the homeless

can afford those ever. and there is no way people who can work those -- who are working can afford them. i feel like it is a scam. they raise the rent anytime they want. host: so these new places that are coming in in salem, for example, what is a rent to get into an apartment there? you're starting rent at a studio or one bedroom apartment? caller: i don't know about a studio, but it is like probably a couple thousand dollars. or more. it is very expensive. people can't afford it. i just find it odd that any time a piece of land opens, i can explain it. i have lived here all my life

and the land is getting eaten up by big apartment complexes. they don't build little houses anymore. there are neighborhoods here that were built in the 1940's that have these little houses and they are very cute. people can afford -- they are very cute. people can afford those houses and live a nice life, nice enough. they have a house that they own, they are not getting their rent raised every month. it is a perfect house. but they don't build those anywhere anymore. anywhere in the city. and i watch. i have lived here all my life. i know the land and i see it. host: our people moving into these? caller: one of them appears to

have residence. my daughter says one of her friends is living in them. i was surprised. but most of them are not really old enough. i just started noticing it around 2020. that is when i started noticing it. host: i appreciate your call. jonathan in old bridge, new jersey. go ahead. caller: i am 33 and part of the generation that watched 9/11 happened in real time and would go on to serve in those 20 year long forever wars. we were pretty much sold a lie that if we go to school, put ourselves eyeball deep in debt, we will be able to get a job and pay back those student loans. for all of the people before, they hop on the phone and say you should have learned a trade, you still have to put yourself in debt to learn that trade.

if to pay for all those tools and everything else. the big corporations, i heard somebody complaining about immigrants stealing jobs or something. who is doing the hiring of these immigrants? it is not anybody that is in my tax bracket aching these decisions. -- making these decisions. that would be the fault of the business owners. the ims, why do you think these people are fleeing these countries in the global south? the laws, you get better rates from the loan sharks connected to the mob in new jersey. it is ridiculous. host: we have been talking about living paycheck-to-paycheck, from bankrate.com. the statistics. 63% of u.s. consumers with

paycheck-to-paycheck in november 2022, closer to 58% that cnbc had. one third of u.s. consumers say they are not currently saving any money and of this group, 60% don't have any savings. henry is in riviera beach, florida. go ahead. caller: hello. i -- no prescription medicine. i have -- my rent went from $400 a month to $1000 a month. i have people with me that in these two years, -- i don't want

them to raise the rent on the people and as long as i'm living , i'm in good health, i am paying -- i will let him know not to raise the rent. looking out for people. host: how many tenants do you have in florida? caller: 43. host: and you have been a landlord for many decades it sounds like for many of these folks? caller: yes. i am still able to look out for my places. i'm looking out for the people so they don't get put out with these corporations. that is the way i handle my money. host: good to hear.

apex, north carolina. rose is on the line. caller: thank you for taking my call. we never want to talk about the source of this suffering. why is that? it comes from an actual plan hatched at the economic forum starting in 1971. it is called the new world order and the plan is to force you into accepting a low-wage. it comes with mandated fasting. we are already seeing the benefits of fasting on twitter. charles schwab says he will owe nothing and you will be happy. you will be moved into a 15 minute city, and massive high-rise and be given headphones to keep you comfortably numb. that is why it is -- a criminal

wanted poster. have a great day. host: still ahead on washington journal, we will be joined b hannah wesolowski of e national alliance on mental illness. we will be talking about gun violence, mental health and red flag laws. later in the program, the senior vice president and director of women's health policy at k ff. she will talk about the implications of the dueling federal court rulings on medication abortion pills and a new ruling last night by an appeals court. and the fda drug approval authority. all of that still ahead. ♪ ♪ >> all this week beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern, c-span is

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c-span. your unfiltered view of government. >> "washington journal" continues. host: with us is hannah wesolowski, the chief advocacy officer for the national alliance on mental illness. here with us to talk about mental health when it comes to gun violence. of the proposed and actual red flag laws some states are implementing. first of all, your organization, the national alliance on mental illness, what is your role? who funds your organization? guest: thanks so much for having me here. nami is an organization that provides resources, education, and support for people with mental health conditions and their family members. we have been around for over 40 years. we really advocate to improve the lives of people affected by mental health conditions.

host: when you say advocate, how does that work? do you also lobby state and -- state legislatures and congress? guest: we are a nonprofit, but we do lobby to make sure there is better mental health services in place but there is effective mental health care programs at the federal level, and then we have 49 state chapters and over six hundred local affiliates across the country advocating at the state and local level. host: certainly a number of recent shootings, mass shootings, there have been pointed out that a number of those shooters have had certainly backgrounds or troubled backgrounds with mental health concerns, somewhat actually mental health problems. in the wake of that the issue of red flag laws, the use of red flag laws has risen in stature,

and certain people paying attention to it. help us understand what red flag walls are, and how they work, and how many states are using them across the country. guest: red flag laws are also called extreme risk protection orders. they are civil court orders that temporarily remove firearms from individuals who are displaying risk factors of herdmen -- harming themselves or other individuals. currently 19 states plus the district of columbia have these laws on the books, and they have increased significantly in the last five years. host: how do they get implemented? who is the person to issue that red flag? guest: ultimately it is a judge makes the decision, but anyone can -- not anyone. there are different factors in different states. law enforcement in every state can petition the court to remove those guns temporarily. some states also allow family

members to file petitions. school administrators. in some cases, until health care providers or other health-care providers. in one case even coworkers can petition the court to remove those firearms. host: you mentioned that family members can petition a court. if a family member is concerned that one of their other members of the family has firearms, has some troubling issues, what are the steps they should take to do that, to approach law enforcement or a judge to say, hey, we are concerned about my son, my daughter, etc., and can we get a red flag law, can we use the red flag law in that case? guest: the process looks a little different in each state, but essentially you can get an ex partake hearing, which is an urgent hearing in front of the court to remove those firearms for a period. that is usually three weeks.

that will be followed up by a second hearing with the court, where the petitioner will have to testify and the individual in question would also have an opportunity to present evidence and have their due process. typically the period is six months to a year that those firearms are removed. and they can be renewed over time. if after a year the individual does not display that they have -- that the situation has changed, the court can renew that court order. host: how do you judge the effectiveness of a red flag law? guest: there is actually some really good data. the biggest thing as a mental health organization, we look at firearms as they relate to suicide. or than half of all gun deaths are suicide. 90% of suicide attempts by firearm are lethal. it is a highly lethal means of suicide.

connecticut, for example, has estimated their law has reduced one in 10 suicide deaths as a result of being in place. in indiana over 10 years they have reduced suicide deaths by 7.5 percent because of their extreme risk protection order law. host: is there data on who has asked for those red flags? is it a family member saying, we are concerned about this person, could be suicidal, could do damage to himself or herself, and addition to other people? guest: you know, law enforcement has traditionally been the main entity that has a busted those. some of these laws are relatively new omma in the last five years, so there is not a lot of company and some data out there on who is making those requests. we know some of the recent laws passed do allow for a wider spectrum of individuals.

family members are a really important part of an individual's life and can identify those, but we know not everyone is close to their family or in daily contact with their family. so making sure we have a variety of options for petitioning the court is important. host: our guest is hannah wesolowski, the chief advocacy officer for the national alliance on mental illness. you can call us on (202) 748-8000. that is the republican line. (202) 748-8002 is the line to use -- excuse me, is the democrats line. for independents and all others it is (202) 748-8002. after the covenant school shooting in nashville, following some political uproar at the statehouse there, the governor, bill lee, in tennessee, signed an executive order on strengthening background checks and is calling for a red flag law in tennessee.

do you have any idea which direction the tennessee legislature may go on this? guest: having the governor speak out in support of this is a really strong signal. i will say there were elements of the bipartisan safer communities act that passed last year and congress that encouraged states to pass these laws. this can be bipartisan in nature, and i hope that tennessee takes that the heart and looks at this. but tennessee and any other state exploring these laws needs to make sure it is based on evaluating real-time behaviors and not a diagnosis of a mental health condition. people with mental illness are much more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators of violence. a person with mental illness is 23 times more likely than their peers to be a victim of violence. so, we need to make sure that these laws are based on actual, real-time behaviors that a

person might be exhibiting and looks at real predictors of violence. host: what can we do in the absence of -- what can gun stores do, what can individuals do in the absence of a red flag law? in the absence of having a diagnosis of somebody with a mental issue? when somebody purchases a firearm that really should not be purchasing a firearm, could do harm to themselves and their family members or friends know this person is potentially a risk to the community? guest: another opportunity is gun purchase waiting periods, which really reduce a lot of the imminent harm that could be done with firearms. some states are exploring that and allowing individuals to opt into that and really making sure that they are not able to purchase a firearm if they are fearful they are going to be suicidal and have suicidal

ideation. those are some other things we can implement. the concern we always have is the focus is on mental illness. the united states is not the only country that has mental illness. this is common around the world, yet we are the only country that has this public health crisis when it comes to gun violence. only about 4% of violent acts are attributable to mental illness. we need to look at the larger picture of how we are limiting the use of firearms to cause this harm, both to individuals, as well as larger acts. host: let's go to rhode island. first up. go ahead, christine. caller: thank you for your service. i'm just calling because people with mental illness need more services. the families need a whole lot of support.

when they started letting people out of the institutions, those people were put into group homes , which had a lot of behaviors, but not anybody buying guns. the people that have to live with family members, if the police are called, the police on my if they are not informed, the procedure of way to bring the people or the services -- the services are horrible. we have had mental illness going way back, where they had -- people with learning disabilities and up in jail. they end up getting involved in drugs, and a lot of the mental illness is caused just by society, and it can be triggered any time. i have a nephew that has schizophrenia, and it is just horrible on the family. not horrible. we love him.

but he disappears and is in places where he could be harmed. it is a dangerous situation for everyone around but as far as the gun laws, that needs to be taken care of. how long is it going to take to take care of the mental health? we have young teenagers just losing their minds because of the way the adults have behaved. host: all right, christine. hannah? guest: thank you for calling in, and i hope your nephew is doing well right now. i know there can be times when it is difficult on the family. you raise a lot of good points. 160 million americans live in a mental health provider shortage area. it is easier to purchase a firearm then to get mental health care in this country. so, we have a huge challenge in making sure individuals are getting the services they need.

you mention police responding to a person in crisis. there has been a lot of work. hopefully folks who are watching are aware of 988, the resource that came out last year that people can call in a crisis to get crisis services and support. there is an effort behind not to make sure we are providing a mental health response when people are in crisis and not relying on law enforcement. so, a lot of issues there, and absolutely agree we need to do more for people with mental health conditions, and we are in a crisis right now as it relates to that. host: we will go to florida, and anthony. welcome. anthony in florida, you are on the air. caller: good morning, good morning. how are you? host: good, thank you. caller: good morning to you, miss hannah. i am a retired federal police

officer that had been involved in an active shooting situation. i have to say that, you know, these shooting situations are more than just what we call mental health. these shooters are ingrained in hate and anger, and the respond off of their hate and anger, just like the situation in tennessee. a workplace, violent situation, the same thing when i went through a gentleman with a contract. he came in and started shooting the people he worked with, then he went from there shooting all of the other folks and killed 11 folks before we ended his reign. my concern is that, you know, this is more than just mental. i believe there is a disconnect for these individuals not to

understand logic and law and have integrity in their behavior, and learn how to deal with their anger. i think anger management, along with dealing with until this connection, will be very important. and to ban these assault weapons. i appreciate you giving me time. these congressmen and senators who support these gun rights, they don't let them bring them to the building right behind you, to the white house. they don't let them walk around with assault weapons around them. they keep it from out of their buildings. there is a reason. you cannot control these folks with these weapons. these military weapons, it does great damage. thank you. i love your glasses game. you always wear some good specs. host: thank you.

your thoughts, hannah wesolowski? guest: i can't imagine the trauma you and your fellow officers have gone through, and i think that is a big part of this conversation too, the mass trauma that is caused by these acts of violence. you are absolutely right. research has shown that predictors of violence are passed violent acts, sexual or physical abuse, misuse of drugs or alcohol, you know, past misdemeanor for violent acts. there are real risk factors we can look at, and predict there's. it is usually multiple factors that contribute to an individual displaying violence, and focusing on one thing does not solve the problem. certainly not one thing that is not a strong predictor of violence, like mental illness. host: is the use or misuse of social media a predictor of violence? guest: we don't know enough. for over 20 years there was a

ban that really limited federal dollars being used for gun violence research. we don't know the impact of social media. you don't know what that is doing. certainly we know it is having an impact on youth mental health and that we have a youth mental health crisis in this country. but we don't know what else it is doing. there is a lot to unpack there and a lot to dig into, and we need to learn more. host: you mentioned a ban on research. is the cdc allowed to do gun violence research? guest: it is called the dickey amendment, and it was lifted by congress in 2019. now we are starting to get more funding into the cdc for gun violence research, which is absolutely critical to better understand how we mitigate these acts of gun violence. host: next up is tom in woodbridge, virginia. caller: thank you, guys. please give me enough time to get through this. i'm sort of a recognized leader

in virginia, with regard to the second amendment, and opposition to the red flag laws. in addition to that i am a recognized counterterrorism expert and i spent the last five or six years studying the mental health crisis in the united states, because of the misconception that guns have something to do with mental health. she just hit on it, but it is usually lost on everyone that in virtually every single case of gun violence in the united states that is not in the 17 inner cities in the united states that have massive gun violence due to the drug war and fatherlessness and hopelessness, virtually every single one of the mass shooting incidences, the individuals involved were known to be suffering from massive anxiety, massive depression, and suicidal ideation. and suicidal ideation can in

about 4% of cases become homicidal/suicidal ideation, which they either kill their families or coworkers or fellow students who they target as -- to basically take out their pain which is internal on the world, to kind of, in a sense, elevate themselves from their place of misery in the world. that is the real crux of all of these mass shooting problems. we know in almost every single one of these cases that these people are potentially violent, and the problem is, with red flag laws, as is usually weaponized by the left, is it is not really about people who are potentially violent. it is about people who have guns. so anyone who has a gun is,

essentially, to a great number of people, they see people who have guns as being a threat because they own guns. 99 point 9% of all firearms in the hands of american citizens today basically killed no one. it is a really, really small percentage of firearms that are used in these mass sugar events that are in the hands of firearm owners. however, they get 1000% of the media. it is incredibly tragic when these events happened, but unfortunately in a free society unless you are willing to impose totalitarian law, and basically change the entire makeup of the united states, this is never going to go away. and even if you did do that it would be impossible to eliminate it. host: ok, tom. let's hear from our guest on that. guest: you know, this is not

about taking guns away. red flag laws are protection orders. they allow an individual due process. i have a chance to present their evidence and speak to the court. i think that is an important part of this. this is not unilaterally taking away anyone's firearms. i do disagree with the caller about the fact that mental health -- mental illness as a part of all of this. again, mental illness is only a trivial factor in 4% of acts of violence. that is not even gun violence, that is violence overall. it is a very small percentage when you look at people with mental health conditions as part of the overall population. host: do you agree with his analysis of mass shooters and the elements in the masked shooter, the anxiety and depression and suicidal ideation?

you think that is a common thread with mass shooters in this country? guest: i don't think we have evidence to show that is a common thread, nor that that is the contributing factor that causes somebody to be violent. also note that gun violence is incredibly pervasive, and commonsense solutions that limit that, kaiser family foundation just came out with a pole that about one in five americans said they have had a firearm pulled on them and have been in that situation. it is incredible to see the impact of firearms in this country. focusing on factors that are not the contributing factor is not going to solve the problem. host: the associated press had an article about some of the issues they found with red flag laws. their headline was "red flag

laws get little use as shootings and gun deaths sore." they found that 19 states and the district of columbia were used to remove guns from people 15,000imes since 2020. experts called that woefully low t nearly enough to make a dent in gun viole considering the millions of vile -- millions of firearms in circulation and countless morning signs law enforcement officers encounter from gun owners everyday. guest: one of the missed opportunities is when we have these laws on the books, is educating law enforcement, the public, mental health professionals that they exist and how to utilize them. that is an important part of this. recent activities by congress and the administration around these laws do focus on it or educating the public and key stakeholders about the existence of these court orders and how to

obtain them. i think that is absolutely critical in making sure they get utilized more and that we are helping people and saving people. host: next up is bill in tallahassee, florida. democrats line. caller: hello? host: bill, you are on the air. caller: thank you. i have been watching since 1987. first time caller. host: great. caller: thanks. this is a very important issue. i'm looking on the -- at an article written by mark berman in the washington post last year, and he quoted governor abbott, who said anybody who shoots somebody else has a mental health challenge, period. your guest just pretty much said what i wanted to say. the mentally ill for the most part are not particularly violent. the violence attributed to the mentally ill, as your guest indicated, only accounts for 4% of violence. and i believe gun violence is

only 1%. while mental health treatment i am all for, i'm just not sure how much that is going to impact gun violence toward others. i think it could be very helpful towards those with suicidal ideation. but i guess it is sad to hear politicians and the nra promoting this myth that gun violence by others is caused by mental illness. i don't think that is the issue. the issue for me is that when we flood the country with weapons like we have -- there is like 400 million weapons now in the united states -- that there is just going to be this interaction between human emotions and behavior. you know, very strong emotions like anger, hate, jealousy, rage . if you happen to be carrying a gun at these times, some people may use those with limited impulse control. i don't know how we get around that one. that is going to be really difficult.

i guess those are my major points. so much. i really appreciate it. host: thanks, bill. guest: bill, thank you for those comments, and absolutely agree with you that mental illness is not the factor here. and yet that is so much of the conversation. that not only reinforces the stigma around mental health conditions, which keeps people from getting the help they need, it can be true that we have a gun violence crisis in this country and a mental health crisis in this country, what they are not necessarily the same thing or related to each other. we need to invest in our mental health system, but that is not going to solve our gun violence crisis. host: on to florida. this is nelson on the independent line. caller: good money. i will just say that i'm 74 years old. i am a combat-wounded vietnam vet. and i am a retired firefighter/paramedic.

i have seen extreme violence in my lifetime, and i know what guns do. i believe that the problem we are experiencing in the united states is a result of very psychological, cultural change that has taken place in my lifetime. when i was a kid the big problem was having a fistfight after school with the school bully. today kids have to worry about going to school and getting shot. and i believe that all of this has to do with this cultural change that seems to disregard human life. we see it on the political left with the issue of abortion on demand, and we see it on the political right on the issue of guns under any kind of circumstance. and i agree with you that [indiscernible] is not the issue.

host: nelson, you are breaking up a little bit. sorry about that, but we got most of your call. hannah wesolowski, any thoughts? guest: thank you for your service and your thoughts. you mentioned children, and suicide is the second leading cause of death for children ages 10 and into young adulthood. and firearms are the most common cause of deaths for our kids. thinking about kids going to school and worrying about what might happen there, but also the availability of firearms for any child that is feeling bullied or has other events in their life that are contributing to suicidal ideation. it is a real concern, and we are losing far too many children as a result of this. certainly, you know, have seen that change in my childhood to now as well.

we really need to solve this. our kids deserve better. they deserve to feel safe at school. they deserve to feel supported, and we should not be giving them the tools to cause harm to themselves or others. host: suicide has risen to record highs. this front-page story at the washington times, the national suicide rate rebounds close to a 20-year high. it jumped in 2020 one after declining the previous two years. a final count is just shy of a two-decade high, according to figures from the centers of disease control and prevention. you mentioned earlier the 988 program. tell us a bit more about that and its efforts in suicide prevention. guest: the 988 crisis lifeline is available to everyone by calling or texting 988. millions of people have called since it became available last july. the goal there is to help people in crisis.

mental health, substance use, suicide crisis, to connect to a trained counselor. that is who is answering the phone. it connects people to additional care and services. again, this is focused on making sure that we are giving a person in a mental health crisis a mental health response. guest: i think you pointed out earlier that suicide is the number one gun death, correct? death by suicide is the number one? guest: more than half of all firearm deaths are suicide, and more than half of suicides are conducted by use of firearms. host: on to eric, who is in massachusetts. the head. -- go ahead. caller: hey, how are you guys? i love the show. first time, long time. hannah, thanks so much for coming on. you know, i am a conservative and a gun owner. the crazy thing is, all of my buddies, my friend that we shoot

together, we all wish there were stronger laws. i feel like the media puts out and the politicians act like it is a real 50-50 issue, when if i had to wait a month for a gun, i will wait a month. i am a law-abiding citizen. but these politicians are also corrupt, i mean, it is just crazy. i have my veteran friend, he is wearing a shirt that says "capitalism runs on blood" now. we all want the same thing. we want stricter laws. i want the politicians give it to us? if it is mental health that is the issue, why isn't there medicare for all? and i am a conservative. thank you so much. host: is it possible for there to be federal red flag laws? guest: well, politically i think that will be difficult. also a lot of this is under state jurisdiction. but the federal government has done is, provided more funding to the department of justice to

incentivize states to pass these laws. the department of justice, after an executive from from president biden, also put out model legislation in 2021, so that that is out there and is now incentivizing states through grant programs to implement those. i think that is the best option we have right now, but we are also not exploring safe storage laws, in terms of storing firearms safely. only 13 states have those on the books, as well as these waiting periods. certainly if someone is at any minute risk, it can get us past that period of imminent risk. host: maryland. caller: good morning. i'm no expert on guns. i don't own any guns. i'm no expert on mental health, but he gets a little exhausting hearing from folks who say that there is nothing we can do to --

that we should accept this in our society. the gentleman called previously and explained that only a certain percentage of gun owners commit these crimes and we are punishing gun owners. i'm open to solutions. i think the analogy also, there is any number of folks in our society dealing with mental health issues. some folks deal with them over long periods of time, other people have episodes and lapses. but they are not all going out and committing mass murder. so i think it is unacceptable for us to continue to just say, well, this is something in our society we have to live with, and it is a sacrifice we have to make in order to be american. thank you. guest: well said. stigmatizing any group of individuals on any factor is not going to solve our problems.

we know that these are much more complex challenges that our nation faces, and if we implement solutions based on evidence of what causes these acts of violence, then we can get to a better place. love times the solutions that are put forward are not solutions at all. they are based on reinforcing the stigmas and not really addressing what we know is going to help the problem and solve this situation. host: next up is joel in eagle, idaho. caller: hi, bill. a couple of things. first problem is, the american psychiatric association comes out every year with standards for mental illness. there is very little agreement on what mental illness is. that is point number one. number two, serotonin reuptake inhibitors are a major treatment

in depression. and these have some very, very long-term ill effects on a human brain. so, that needs to be addressed. the other thing is, if you talk about mental illness, somebody with dementia, are they mentally ill? is somebody with depression, are they mentally ill? what about pms? you can make an argument that there are some wild actions that take place with that condition. so my point is that it is tough to define mental illness, other than the obvious schizophrenic or illnesses like that. the other thing is that you can thank the aclu for some of those situations. years ago they opened up all of the mental hospitals and the supreme court decided that the living conditions were not up to par.

lastly, i'm not sure i want a federal judge or any type of judge making the decision on second amendment rights. i'm a gun owner, 78-year-old vietnam vet, and i don't want a liberal judge deciding that for me. but i would like to hear your address on ssri's. host: appreciate your call. guest: you know, we have moved away from institutionalization, which is actually a good thing. the problem in our country is that we have not increased the availability of community mental health resources. so, you know, putting people in an institution was a very ineffective and inhumane way to treat anyone with a mental illness. to health's health, and there are effective ways to treat that, and yet we do not invest in those effective ways.

community health systems have been underfunded for decades. i would also note that there is the dsm v, which has diagnostics for a wide range of mental health conditions. so, we do know what mental illnesses are, and what are some of the symptoms and factors of those mental health conditions. so, there is quite a bit we know about that. host: he also touched on what i think a previous caller was alluding to, and said something along the lines of, the moment of some of these shootings is not a -- a mental health issue, but strong emotions come into play. anger, revenge, vengeance, jealousy. that cause the use of that firearm. that does not necessarily indicate a mental illness on the part of the person who used the firearm. guest: yes. those are not mental health conditions. there are a lot of angry people in this country, and that is often what comes into play and

is the trigger for these acts of violence. but people often conflate that with having a mental illness and having a psychiatric disorder does not mean you are going to engage in that violence. but anger certainly is a huge factor. host: atlanta. bob is up next on the republican line. caller: yes, my regards to hannah wesolowski, but it appears to me she doesn't know what she's talking about. i used to work in a psychiatric hospital, which got close in georgia by a bunch of do-gooders like her who think you can just call somebody and it will get handled. there are times when you are actually crazy, you need institutionalization. you need a good psychiatric hospital to stabilize you. i can tell by just looking at her she has never been in one or anything else. host: ok, bob. care to respond to that, hannah

wesolowski? guest: no one would debate that some people need inpatient care, and that is not what i was saying. however, that is not how most people with a mental health condition need to receive their visits. host: on to joan in minnesota. joan is on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: my thing is, i think dwight eisenhower said one of the best things in the world is, beware of the military industrial complex. i think the industrial complex has overloaded this country with guns, and we keep lambing and on the people and their problems, and all of this other stuff when all that we have to do is take that military firearm out of the hands of the people in this country, let them have their hunting guns or range shooters, and all of the good things that are a pleasure to them, and get

the ar-whatever out of the hands of everybody, because what the industrial military complex is way too strong, and the people need to speak up, and their voices need to be heard instead of being squashed. thank you. host: hannah, you may have mentioned this kff survey earlier. this is one that caught our eye. this says more than half of u.s. adults have experienced a gun-related incident, including one in five have been personally threatened with a gun or had a family number killed with a gun. 37% of those surveyed have been threatened by a gun. is there any research into the mental health effect of the continuing news about mass shootings? the presence, the daily presence of shootings in violent crime, certainly in some of our cities? guest: not enough, for sure. there is not enough research to know the impact, but we do see a significant increase in mass

trauma, particularly those most directly impacted. you look at the impact on parents, on kids across the country going through shooter drills in their schools, there is a component of that that certainly impacts individuals and kids in particular, that are growing up with this as normal. you know, there is a huge concern about what being part of a gun pulled on you, what that does to you. and the ptsd that might result. i can certainly cause ptsd for some individuals. certainly not everyone. so, looking at how we provide better mental health services to individuals as a result of our gun violence and gun epidemic is crucial here. host: what is the role, in the case of the mass shooting, where often trauma counselors will go in and talk to people. what is their role primarily? guest: their role is to process what people are feeling, to

validate that. it is important that we do it not only for the individuals who were part of the shooting, but also police officers, but they witness is absolutely devastating. we also see high rates of suicide among law enforcement, so these trauma counselors can help process that and help individuals understand what their triggers may be, what they are feeling, and what they are feeling is valid, which is also important. host: on to portsmouth, virginia . dr. butler, is it? go ahead. caller: yes. host: you are on the air. caller: yes, i trained as a psychiatrist. i did not have personal patients to do it, so i switched to surgery. however, i would like to ask, what do other countries do with respect to this issue? and what laws, if any, did they

pass that we might consider that would bear on this question? in particular, is this a national problem of employment and opportunity for hope and being able to earn a living, or is it something more subtle? i ask that, because i don't know the answer, and i'm fascinated by your program. host: thanks for that. hannah wesolowski? guest: i can't say i am an expert in international policies and what other countries do, but i do know that the availability of firearms is much more limited in other developed countries. and certainly when other countries have had horrific acts of gun violence -- australia being one example -- they have taken significant measures that have vastly reduced subsequent acts of gun violence.

so, i cannot speak to all the policies in place, but i know the availability and the lack of restrictions on firearm usage and the types of firearms certainly contributes to that in this country. host: and here is richard in gillette, wyoming. ahead. caller: yeah, you know, an earlier caller mentioned the military-industrial complex in eisenhower's speech. originally it was the military-industrial progression all -- progressional that the advisors suggested he take the word congressional out. my issue on red flag laws, what i have heard about them is they lacked due process. i was wondering if that lady could speak to that. host: ok. guest: that is a common misconception about extremist protection orders, or red flag laws. while a judge can issue a

temporary order that lasts for a couple of weeks, that has to be followed up by a more extensive hearing where the individual does have due process, can speak for themselves, present evidence. the petitioner also has to testify. due process is absolutely a part of this, and something we strongly support. do not want anyone to have their rights unfairly restricted, and that is an important component of these laws. that an individual has a say and is able to represent themselves in a court of law. host: our guest is the chief advocacy officer of the national alliance on mental illness. hannah wesolowski, thank you for being on "washington journal" this money. guest: thank you for having me. host: next alina salganicoff is with us. she is discussing the implications of the dueling federal court rulings on medication abortion pills,

including last nights ruling by the appeals court. we will talk about the fbi's drug approval authority. that is later. next, though, more of your phone calls on any public policy or political issue you want. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. ♪ ♪ >> live, sunday, may 7, love howard will be our guest on in-depth to take your callon government legal reform in america. mr. howard has written six books, including "the collapse of the common good." 's latest book is a critique of public sector unions. join the live conversation with philip howard sunday, may 7, on eastern on book tv, on c-span2.

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(202) 748-8002. we will start with a tweet by karen tumulty this morning. she is talking about an article in the "washington post." secret and top-secret documents were now available to thousands of discord users, but the leak would not come to the attention of u.s. authorities for another month. she is linking to this front-page story in the "washington post." military -- leaker had military access. the man behind a leak of u.s. government secrets that has exposed spying on allies, revealed the grim prospects for ukraine's war with russia, and ignited diplomatic fires for the white house is a young, charismatic unenthusiastic who shared highly classified documents with a group of acquaintances searching for companionship amid the isolation of the pandemic. united by their mutual love of guns, military gear, and god, the group of roughly two dozen

men and boys formed an invitation-only clubhouse in 2020 on discord. you can read that link the investigation peas in the "washington post co. -- post." walter in west palm beach. morning, walter. caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment about one of the callers from the last segment concerning the issue of mental health and guns. i would like to suggest that there is a narrative that is abroad in this country, that whenever there is gun violence in black communities it is mainly a criminal justice issue, and when there is gun violence in non-black communities, that it is a issue that is of despair

and anxiety and other kinds of mental illnesses. mental illness occurs in the african-american community as well. and much of the violence that occurs there is a result of mental illness that occurs based not necessarily on internal issues, but based on external, systemic racism that causes people to behave in ways that are sometimes not productive. the thing that i think we have got to do is be aware that whether mental illness is in the african-american community or in a non-black community, it is the access to those implements of destruction, namely guns, that causes the person who may be having some mental illness

issues to perpetrate the kind of violence that they do. thank you for c-span. host: on to jason in north carolina. caller: good morning, bill. i would also like to sort of talk about what he was just mentioning. that last caller -- let's go back to the lady you just had on. she was bragging about australia and how they took their guns. they also send their police out to harass and injure their own citizens that even bothered to step outside of their homes. or protest. that is what you get when you take peoples firearms. like that old lady who called, she said she wants to take our ar 15's, but let us keep our 36 -- 30.06's. she doesn't know what she's

talking about. a hunting rifle is twice as deadly as any ar 15. but anyway, thanks for letting me get that out of the way. i would like to actually talk about the insurrection that happened in tennessee, whether windows were smashed, police officers were injured. i was going to go somewhere else. now i'm trying to be nice. police were injured. they took over the capital of tennessee and they withheld it while they were in the process of doing their duties. the same thing happened in washington, d.c., but nobody wants to call what happened in tennessee an insurrection. it is because the people who did it were black? has anybody ever thought about that? oklahoma, a couple of months ago their capital was also taken over. when it comes to joe biden and kamala harris -- thank you, bill. when it comes to joe biden and kamala harris, they cannot go to east palatine -- east palestine, because they are trump supporters? but they can bring these

so-called black activists to the white house, send kamala down to tell how great these people are who led an insurrection? the same thing we have heard for the last two and a half years. the same thing that happened in tennessee and nobody will call it an insurrection. host: in tennessee there is news. second expelled tennessee democrat returned to the tennessee legislature. the second democrat to be expelled last week after joining protesters in support of new gun safety laws was reinstated to his seat on wednesday. the shelby county board of commissioners voted unanimously to appoint justin pearson to fill the seat he lost last thursday after a super majority of republicans voted to boot him from office. the legislator was elected earlier this year and joined two colleagues and hundreds of students and parents calling for government action in the wake of the march 27 shooting at a nashville elementary school that resulted in six deaths. in detroit, anthony is on the independent line. caller: good morning, bill.

i'm thinking about the -- i don't if you saw -- i'm sure you have some feelings about it -- on mpr and twitter they got labeled, i don't know, government-affiliated or government-funded. i think it is pretty interesting. i don't have a problem with it because in the old twitter regime they had labeled rt russia state-affiliated, and cgtn china-state affiliated. that should definitely be labeled u.s.-state affiliated. i wonder what c-span1 do. i know you guys don't get your funding from their. host: c-span has no government funding, so we could not be labeled a government -- yeah. caller: you could totally be labeled affiliated, because everything you guys say is a total regurgitation of government propaganda, from covid, to hunter biden laptop. you guys cried wolf with russia.

you can't say that anymore. you guys cried wolf, c-span too. host: this is the story our caller was talking about. npr quits twitter after being labeled state media. npr will no longer post fresh content to its 52 official twitter feeds, becoming the first major news organization to go silent on the social media platforms. in explaining its decision npr cited twitter's decision to first label the networks state affiliated media. the same term it uses for propaganda outlets in russia, china, and other autocratic countries. npr writes that the decision took the public radio network off guard. when queried by npr tech reporter bobby allen, twitter owner elon musk added that he might have gone the wrong. twitter then revised its label on npr's count -- account to government-funded media.

npr is a private nonprofit company with editorial independence. it receives less than 1% of its $300 million annual budget from the federally-funded corporation for public broadcasting. catherine is in new york on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. i think that the lobby we should be fighting is the liquor lobby. the protestant women that were educated nurses, that put prohibition in place. we are going toward this -- talking about mental illness and we are leaving out this power of all call -- power of alcohol. he needs to be put in the letter of the law, not 12 step programs. the mentally ill should be given injections, not pills. can get the money into the drug of their choice. we don't want to fight the liquor lobby. it is a social lubricant.

we teach children that it is a social lubricant. as long as you are going to have that liquor going on you were going to keep having the mental illness and the guns go off. that liquor is the gateway drug for all of the other drugs. it is a ok for the youth to go ahead to other drugs they choose to do. we don't want to fight the liquor lobby in america. mental illness, guns, alcohol is the source of this mind-changing chemical, especially in young people's minds. as far as mental patients not been violent, i followed somebody for 30 years on long island here and was in a building in allen park with 100 other mental patients, and the police were there most often than not. i don't think anybody has the stamina in this country, the moral will, to make that not be a reality anymore. as long as we want to keep alcohol around the guns are going to keep going off. host: leah in anderson, south

carolina, next up. caller: yes, good morning. two comments. my husband is a member of a special unit team with law enforcement. and when they go into the situations even with one shooter , or, god forbid, multiple shootings, they go in and it is there is no time to bring in a trained behavior specialist to speak with these people because they have already stepped back and stewed for weeks on what is bothering them. ok? number two, i have a comment about the democrats. in 1865, when the land was supposed to go to the ex

-slaves and abraham lincoln was mysteriously shot and a democratic president came in, andrew johnson, yes what he did? he took back every bit of that land. there were no mules involved. they took back every bit of that land and gave it back to the white folks. they have been promising things back from 1865 and they are not coming through. thank you. host: we will go to john from brooklyn, georgia. on the independent line. host: how are you all -- caller: how are you all doing today? a little while back we were talking about the mental illness people. they want to know what the government or everything else with our taxes. a prominent doctor says that the

patient is mentally ill, then the patient is mentally ill, he is not doing it to have something to do, that is his job. they should be able to pay for it. other countries do. we have the largest economy in the world. another thing after this gun thing, and i will leave you after i speak to that, every time we have a school shooting they all get together and i might have to blame this on the republicans because they are the ones who close it down. with all of the promises they got about guards in the schools and at the doors, all of this talk and rhetoric and we keep having children and adults shot and killed because of this. it is too damn cheap to do it in the government does not want to do it.

the state does not want to pay for it. somebody needs to do it or retired military just to get somebody out there and guard the doors. the cameras do not shoot them. they just come into the door and going into kill five or six people, we are the richest and best country in the world, we have to take control of what we are doing. this is going out of control. host: this is the headline from "usa today." tim scott moves closer to challenging trump and other gop rivals. "he forms an exploratory committee" and he announced that yesterday by video. here's a look. [video clip] >> on this day, april 12, 1861, in this harbor the first shots of the civil war were fired. and our country faced these

defining moments, would we truly be one nation under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all? america's goal was put to the test and we prevailed. today our country is once again being tested and our divisions run deep and the threat to our future israel. joe biden and the radical left have chosen a culture of grievance over greatness. they are promoting victimhood instead of personal responsibility and indoctrinating our children to believe we live in an evil country. all too often when they get called out for their failures they weaponize race to divide us and to hold onto their power. when i fought back against their liberal agenda they called me a prop and token because i disrupt their narrative and threaten their control. they know the truth of my life

disproves their lives -- their lives. i was raised by a single mother in poverty, the spoons in our apartment were plastic but we had faith and we put in the work and we had an unwavering belief that we could live the american dream. i know america is a land of opportunity, not a land of oppression. i know it because i have lived it. that is why it pains my soul to see biden liberals attacking every rung of the ladder that helped me climb. if the radical left gets their way, aliens more families will be trapped in failing schools, crime-ridden neighborhoods and crushing inflation, but not on my watch. this is personal to me. i will never back down in defense of the conservative values that make america exceptional and that is why i am announcing my exploratory committee for president of the united states. [end video clip]

host: so tim scott not entering the race but forming an exploratory committee. news about the first debate. a republican from "the new york times" the gop picks fox news as a first debate. it is open forum on washington journal. we go to kenzie in baltimore, democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to speak as a person who is a victim of god violence. twice in my life i have faced a gun, once as a 10-year-old child in an all white neighborhood and the other as a 19-year-old on a bus on his way home from work where i was shot in the head. neither times were crime or mental health the issue. the both times was because they

thought a person with a gun's personal and petty prejudices and having a gun on which to act on them. we talk about mental health issues. we talk about crime. we do not talk about simply having a weapon and personal issues and having that weapon being able to be used to prosecute those personal issues, grievances, and grudges. we talk about hunting, but i wonder how well armed are the deer that you need a military grade weapon to take them down. what kind of armor or kevlar is under their fur that requires that kind of ordinance? that is pretty much all i have to say. we do not need as a populace to

be as armed as they are because several hundred years ago the founding fathers lived in fear of the british re-invading. we now have a military to handle those things. host: next up is martin from new york city. good morning. caller: good morning c-span. a lot to talk about this morning. you know, everybody has flaws, men and women have flaws. donald trump's flaw is that he has a big mouth. joe biden's flaw is that he is destroying america as we know it. i will take the guy with the big mouth. i want to talk about transgender. the transgender thing is a mental illness, anybody with half a brain.

it is scientifically impossible to change a man into a woman or vice versa because of dna. no matter if you wear a dress and say you are a woman or whatever else you do your dna remains male because you are. host: we had a caller yesterday early in the show calling us from indiana and mentioned this story in the "wall street journal" which was happening as we were on the air and our caller was actually from richmond, indiana. toxic smoke from industrial fire forces thousands of residents to evacuate. smoke filled the air as fire engulfed six buildings in richmond, indiana. the photo of the aftermath from "the wall street journal." from atlanta, emmanuelle on the independent line. caller: a couple of points.

a lot of the callers call into the show and if you listen to them, the caller from several calls back and this was listening into -- in terms of how he said or how he said it. i was thinking this might very well be someone who one day could be encouraged to be angry enough or passionate enough to go out. listen, she said that the situation in tennessee a bunch of black protesters took over the state house. most of the people protesting were actually white and female. the other thing is racism, narcissism, white supremacy,

ego, maniacal behavior as well as paranoia might be classified as mental illness is that are causing a lot of the mass shootings. that is something we need to take into consideration. the last point, i think white supremacist sympathizers and rationalize errors, and conservatives -- rationalizer and conservatives might be most of the people committing mass shootings. host: we talked about npr dropping out of twitter due to it labeled as a government-funded media. this person on twitter said "npr receives 1% of its funding from government funds. rt is 100% funded by the russian communist party." here is a little bit more detail on how npr is funded from " influence watch."

they say in 2020, national public radio earned $270 million in revenue and it is generated from a wide variety of sources. in 2017, it got ready percent from its corporations, 19 percent from corporate sponsorships, 10% from foundation donations, 10% from university licenses and 4% from governments from member licenses. we have mike in orlando. go ahead. mike, orlando, florida. you are on the air. we will go to dori and spoke a, washington. -- in spokane, washington on the independent line. caller: this is the result of not treating people with mental illness. my daughter's husband left her

with a mental breakdown, not paying bills. he works for a cybersecurity company and he will not speak to her. i have called the police and i been paying as much as i can, even the taxes on her house. her rental was just burned down because the people were not paying and so she did not even get the rental payments from the rental. both houses are paid for, that she is not getting a dime. he would like to have a divorce now, but there is no possibility for her to even contact him. it has to be through somebody else. now the rental has burned down. i have even paid the taxes on that and there is no help for that now because houses burned down. host: onto el paso, texas. this is paul. welcome.

mute your volume and go ahead with your comment. caller: ok. i was listening to the lady and i do not think people understand how serious the anxiety and stress is. myself, i was undergoing a therapy of valium, 10 milligrams six times a day which helped me to control my depression, my ptsd and different sayings. an intern at texas tech psychiatry department here after three interns prior to him continued beyond this valium therapy or -- therapy. but this in turn decide -- intern decided to take me off of that. in the past year and a half my

body has just crashed. i am not going to shoot people or anything like that but the doctors out soap scared of person -- so scared of prescribing valium. these young doctors do not understand that valium, the therapy of valium controls their anxiety. and if you can control the anxiety and stress, which leads to a lot of more serious mental problems, they just do not understand. host: i am glad that you got through. more of your calls coming up on washington journal. next, we will talk to alina sugg on a cough -- salgonicoff talking about the implications of dueling federal court rulings on medication abortion pills and

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tell us how these pills, particularly the one in question, mifepristone, how does this work? guest: a lot of individuals have learned a lot about abortion recently. medication abortion is one of two pills taken in a medication abortion regimen that ends a pregnancy and so that you take this pill and then there is another pill and that causes the body and the uterus to expel the pregnancy. host: how commonly is it used in the united states? guest: well about 53% of abortions in the united states were estimated to be medication abortion pills, and these are abortions that occur before 10 weeks of pregnancy. host: so there are two cases that deal with the medication. one came up in texas and one in

washington state. help us understand what the two cases, the similarities and differences between what they are about. guest: these are two sides of the same coin. the case in texas is a group of antiabortion advocates and medical providers have challenged the fda's approval of the drug saying that it was done improperly and that the research that the fda used was not correct. and so they challenged this and they also challenge the process. this judge, who is a judge out of amarillo, texas who has a history of doing antiabortion advocacy and legal work basically ruled that the fda did

not rule properly and approving mifepristone and that the drug's approval should be revoked. of course that has huge implications for access to mifepristone. at the same time there has been another case in the state of washington that is 18 attorneys general from states who are mostly blue states, i think all of them. they challenge the medication abortion approval in a different way and they say that the restrictions currently part of the medication abortion approval are inappropriate and unnecessary. and so that judge basically cited with the fda -- sided with the fda saying that the current process will apply, but only for the states that are part of this lawsuit. you basically have conflicting

rulings with one of the judges saying that the approval process was not correct. and ruling to block the approval of the drug and the other saying that the fda process was correct and ruling at least temporarily to uphold. host: went to the fda first approve mifepristone? guest: this drug has been approved by the fda for over 23 years now in the year 2000. so it has had a very long record of safety and effectiveness in the united states. host: in the texas case there has been movement, as you know overnight. this is the reporting on that in "politico" appeals court keeps it on the market but limits the access of federal appeals court ruled late wednesday that "an

abortion pill can remain on the market under strict provisions that prohibit its use under -- beyond seven weeks of private -- a pregnancy. the 42 page order from the fifth court -- fifth circuit court of appeals temporarily blocking the aspect of the federal ruling that suspended the 2000 approval of the drug. by a 2-1 vote they permitted other aspects of the ruling that would block a seven year effort by the fda to widen access to the drug." this stalls the process of the lawsuit, correct? guest: well, this is basically blocking the judge's full order from going through. an important thing for people to understand about mifepristone is that the drug has been very

severely restricted in terms of distribution over the years. initially the drug was approved only physicians could provide this medication. it was only recommended up to seven weeks of pregnancy. it requires three visits. you had to dispense this and start taking the medication in person and the dose was three times higher than what is recommended today. so over the years, as with many drugs, the fda has changed the restrictions as more information has come in about the safety and effectiveness and the best use of this drug. most recently in 2023, a new set of risk evaluation mitigation strategy, and those are the conditions that the fda applies to certain drugs, and what they

said is that they have been changed and now you can mail the drug safely. the dosage was actually lowered in 2016 to 200 milligrams and the dates of which it is effective in the pregnancy was expanded from seven weeks to 10 weeks. the ruling of this circuit rolls back the clock to 2000 meaning that the drug can no longer be mailed, it is only approved up to seven weeks of pregnancy, only doctors can dispense the medication, and it must be done in person. of course that is going to dramatically limit the distribution of this medication by rolling back the clock. host: we welcome the viewers and listeners the conversation. the lines are 202-748-8001, the republican line.

202-748-8000 for democrats. independents and others, 202-748-8002. she is the vice president of ks -- kff. reading some of your analysis on the implications of the rulings it was interesting that you pointed out that the plaintiffs contend that in 1873 anti-obscenity law, the comstock act comes into play, why is that? guest: this law is going to be much more visible in this whole discussion and coverage about this. about access to medication and abortion. this is an 1873 antiobscenity law that bans the mailing of anything that facilitates

abortion. and so it has not really been an issue in the past because the risk mitigation guidelines would limit the mailing and now people call it a zombie law because people did not actually follow or use the comstock law. initially it limited the mailing of anything considered obscenity as well as mailing contraception over the years, the courts have kind of dropped the contraception antiobscenity -- and the obscenity as mores have changed. host: we have callers waiting. let us go to stephen in windsor, connecticut on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning.

i want to broaden this discussion a little bit more on the fact that -- there was an article about wisconsin and how -- there is evidence that you are with it, the younger people under 30 came out and drove that election. i am not sure if you have statics on this thing. i think that people are becoming one issue voters. what is your take on the effect of -- of this affecting the

electorate? guest: on this decision on the election? caller: just all of these laws restricting abortion, this is influencing the electorate. host: we will let you go, a little hard to hear some of it. how do you want to respond? guest: i am not sure that i completely understood the question. this clearly is an area that has activated voters. i think what people should recognize is that the efforts to limit abortion access did not begin with the dobbs decision. there have been laws enacted in many states over the years permitted by the supreme court's determination that states can regulate abortion to limit access. even before the dobbs decision was issued, abortion access was limited in many states.

the dobbs decision allowed states to ban abortion and 13 states have fully with very limited exceptions, and these are in areas that voters now, when we have seen in many recent elections have in many cases cited -- sided with the support of abortion rights and allowed individuals to make their decisions. host: is the attempt to permanently shut down fda approval of mifepristone? guest: that was the original request which was to overturn the approval, that is correct. that would limit its distribution across the country. the fifth circuit has said that the approval cannot really be question because the statute of limitations has passed. it was approved in 2000. they said that the ability to

limit the fda's deceptions -- decisions to limit abortion, they basically have merit. as a result, they are basically applying the limits from originally in 2000. host: brenda from manchester, washington -- manchester, massachusetts. go ahead. caller: i just want to say on the broad spectrum of the abortion issue i cannot believe it is a pro-life issue, it is a pro-birth issue and to all the people so concerned about the infant babies being murdered. if it is a baby and has a soul and if it has a soul your tenants say it is an innocent soul. so that soul is going to go directly to god, bypass this hell on earth, have the utopia of heaven. let us let god, your judge,

determine the decisions made by the women who are making them. i say this as a woman who cannot ideologically have my own children. i have taken guardianship, i volunteer in my local school. i love children. i myself would never have one, that is not my choice to make for anyone else. once again, all of the people out there basing this on religion, this is not a religious decision. we have a separation of church and state. states shall not govern religion, religion shall not govern the state. thank you so much. host: any response? guest: no. i am not sure what to respond to. host: i think you mentioned in the beginning, how late in the pregnancy, up to what month or

week can mifepristone be used? guest: it has been up until the ruling approved to be used two up to 10 weeks of pregnancy. the vast majority of pregnancies occur in the early weeks before nine weeks. so this ruling now, it is -- if it is not appealed and i do not know what the biden administration is going to do. things are moving quickly and whether they will field this to the supreme court. this affects pregnancies up to 10 weeks. if this stands that it would roll back the clock and it will be pregnancies up to seven weeks. host: "the new york times" says that democratic states is stockpiling abortion pills and they are using the university of washington and the department of corrections to stockpile a four year supply of the drug and it

is fast-track legislation allowing health-care providers to distribute it. officials in maine where 70% of abortions are done using pills and and marilyn said that they were exploring purchasing -- maryland said that they were exporting burgeoning additional doses. and california purchased an emergency stockpile. does that surprise you? guest: i think these are states that are all committed to making sure that abortion is available to residents. i do want to say that there are two different pills that are being discussed. california said that they were going to stockpile one drug. and even though access to mifepristone might be restricted, it is used -- the other is used alone to manage abortion as well in many countries. it is slightly less effective but very effective and has

greater side effects when used alone. clearly the preferable from a medical standpoint is to use a combination of the two. mifepristone alone is safe and effective. but i it would also say that it is used also as part of pregnancy loss and mitch care -- and miscarriage management and has been recommended as the preferred method by the american college it -- the american college of obstetricians and gynecologists which represents ob/gyn's in the country. host: karen in iowa. good morning. caller: my question is why are the democrats pushing more that the pills are not used by abortions but management of miscarriages and things like that? because people have been known to bleed out and die. host: what did you say at the end? caller: people are going to end

up without the proper medical care when they are miscarriage thanks -- miscarriageing and bleeding out and dying. jim from mississippi on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask, henry olson wrote an op-ed in "the washington post" titled the abortion is not the magic will it that democrats think it is and he was talking about the election in wisconsin. i just wanted to ask your guest, do you think that this issue has the strength to rally voters like almost what is it a year from now? or will there be a certain amount of getting used to the new restrictions over the coming months and years?

guest: i will just say that i am not a political scientist, but i will tell you that the issue of abortion, particularly when it is the central issue on an election, particularly the loss of abortion rights has engaged voters, particularly young voters. so i think that is something that the democrats will likely hang onto in the coming elections, that is something we saw in kansas and wisconsin and there have been other examples. i think we are likely to continue seeing this issue. those of us who work on the issues recognize that this is a marathon. it will be a long and protracted battle for the country in terms of abortion rights and access. right now many of us feel like this is a sprint. but, for many people this issue

is not going away and this is an issue that women deal with of a reproductive age and honestly their partners. you know, on a regular basis. host: "usa today" supreme court reporter has a piece "can biden ignore the courts. the experts say it is an explosive idea and that several democrats in congress are saying that the fda should ignore the ruling in the texas case." what is the downside of something like that, for the fda to continue to make it available and to ignore the ruling of the case? guest: from what i have heard from the president and biden administration they will follow the courts and the rule of law but they will challenge this as far as they can. i think it is unlikely and would set a bad precedent not just for

this administration but future administrations to disregard a court ruling, even though we really do not want to have the courts being in the position of making determinations of which drugs are safe and effective in this country. it is highly specialized and you really want to have people who are experts who are relying on good science to make sure what we have available is safe and effective and that is the intent of the biden administration. host: ramona in lithonia, georgia on the democrat line. caller: good morning, everybody. this is two things that i want to say. the women in the 70's were performing abortions on themselves with hangers in closets and elsewhere and they were killing themselves. and abortions crossed all

political lines, republican women, democrat women and independent women were performing abortions. i know for a fact that anything that prevents an abortion, they will perform abortions on themselves. they would not be any law or anything that will prevent abortions. and then also if men were capable of becoming pregnant they would be performing abortions too but they cannot so they do not understand. also, i wanted to say that women are going to die. we are going to die and dark and lonely areas and they will still perform abortions. and also i wanted to ask, is there a study on why do women

resort to abortion, and is there any way to help prevent them from having abortions and giving them another way out. why are they having abortions in the first place? guest: there is a lot in that comment. first of all you are right. women have been having abortions basically since the beginning of history. and our grandmothers and great-grandmothers had abortions and we just do not know about it. and so the situation with self managed abortions is different than it was in the days before rowe because women can take pills and can get them through organizations even outside of the country. the pills like mifepristone are

generally very safe and effective so this kind of back alley abortion model really does not apply today, fortunately. but we are seeing women actually be at considerable risk around miscarriage management where in states where abortion is banned, women are showing up at emergency rooms or are having a miscarriage or pregnancy loss and there might be a fetal heartbeat still that they know that this pregnancy will ultimately not be viable and the clinicians and doctors at the hospitals are not giving approval to do the abortions and saying please come back when you have a fever and in sepsis or start bleeding because then it will be clear. whereas before the doctors -- before the dobbs decision it would be very clear and the clinicians would be able to perform an abortion basically to

-- basically the same procedure as an abortion to end the pregnancy and take the risk out of the medical situations at the woman is facing. host: "the new york times" has a piece about are the abortion pill safe. this is a university of california study. "a vast majority of the studies report that more than 99% of patients who took the pills had no serious complications. the uncommon cobb -- complications can include lead transfusions or major surgeries and they compare procedural abortion, only .1 6% of the patients had serious complication rates in medication abortion, .31%. during childbirth, the rate of serious complication rate is 1.4%. one of the argument in part of

the plaintiff's case was that the medication was unsafe. guest: the research does not bear that out, and i participated in a national academy of sciences study on abortion safety and quality in 2018, and we reviewed reams of evidence and found abortion to be safe and effective. so mifepristone has a very long safety record and so despite the claims of the plaintiffs and this case, the research does not bear that out. host: teresa up next on the independent line in massachusetts. teresa, good morning. caller: hello, i just want to say that first i am a pro-lifer and i have never had an abortion. the first thing i want to say of a two part thing, men have been

able to used prophylactics for years and get them over the counter. so women should be able to get the birth control and the pill and abortion pills. i am a little bit nervous. host: it is ok. caller: they should be able to get pills over-the-counter. and the next thing, the second part is the man of the federal -- men of the federal and state governments that are against abortion should not even talk about it. as far as i'm concerned. and then the other thing that i want to say is you know, women that get pregnant that do not want to have children should have the opportunity to have an

abortion through their doctors as long as it is within a certain amount of time like they wanted to do 10 weeks or not medically informed about all -- i am not medically informed about what is safe or what is not safe. host: we appreciate your phone call. on her point about birth control , is there a concern that potentially birth control methods and birth control pills and etc. could also be subject to future litigation or legislation in some of these states? guest: some are concerned and actually justice clarence thomas actually raised in his concurrence to the dobbs decision the need to revisit the griswold decision, which basically was a decision that

granted the right to contraception and the right to privacy. there is concern but also a tremendous amount of misinformation and confusion about contraception. we have seen this in polling work that kfs has done where individuals do not understand the difference between emergency contraception which you can take up to five days after unprotected sex to prevent a pregnancy, but it is a contraception. it does not end a pregnancy and mifepristone. we have even seen most recently in iowa, the attorney general say that they are removing emergency contraception as something that the state would fund for women who have been victims of sexual violence. there is a tremendous amount of confusion and how it will affect the court and how it will affect

actually common practice is a concern to many of us who are working in terms of making sure that people have access to contraception to present -- to prevent undesired pregnancy. host: a number of drug manufacturer leaders got into the debate with a letter about the texas case in particular. "drug company leaders condemn ruling invalidating fda approval of abortion pill. that is the headline. over the abortion pill on monday issuing a scorch and condemnation by a ruling of a federal drug -- federal drug -- judge and calling for the decision to be reversed." how much influence do pharmaceutical leaders have in cases like this? guest: i just want to say that this case is unprecedented. we have been using that word

quite a bit and it is unprecedented. i think the pharmaceutical industry is rightly concerned that a particular process and approval that costs millions of dollars could affect them, especially right now where we have such polarization or controversy about many health issues. if you look at the issue of treatment for covid or vaccines, you can easily envision millions of dollars that were invested not only by the pharmaceutical industry but the government who researched and developed it and it could be placed at risk if a judge determined that the process was not done correctly. there is as i mentioned a tremendous amount of expertise needed to review drugs and the pharmaceutical industry and investors want to be confident that the determinations made will stick. if they are going to invest all

of this time, effort, and money in getting a drug approved. host: the texas case makes it all to the supreme court after appeals, then this would become an existential christian -- question for the fda in terms of their drug approval role, correct? guest: this is an issue that has not come up in terms of approval. i would say that the fifth circuit in this case did not say that the drug approval has been revoked, but it will likely go to the supreme court one way or another, whether in the short or long term. particularly, you have two conflicting rulings. the role of the fda will continue to be really in the spotlight on this issue and many others. host: next up is lori in youngstown, ohio. go ahead. caller: i just have a couple of comments.

i want to be clear that abortion , the whole idea and the whole issue is based and rooted in patriarchy and religion. roe v. wade, i knew this 35 years ago, it was hanging on a thread and it needed to be caught a five. bodily autonomy for women and men is a given to me, and i have been fighting this for years saying that we needed to codify it and we are now in this boat because they have been chiseling away at this. and this medication, just for the record, it has been on the market for 20 years and is completely safe. i am not saying there are not small issues but it is safe. they have studied and tested and researched it for years.

this is a way to oppress women and that is the bottom line. that is all is that about, keeping women pregnant and in property, the -- and in poverty, thank you first beast -- for c-span. host: do you have a response. guest: you get those who support abortions, i think they side very strongly with the caller. i think who oppose abortion rights view this very differently, and this is an issue that has polarized this country since the decision was made. the roe decision was made in 1973 and we are no closer to resolution. host: question via text. this is a comment. "i am an epidemiologist researcher and i see a large gap

between questions of culture, medical ethics and modernization of our health care system. how do we hold a more intentional comfort -- conversation? the health-care initiative does not bring community into discussions of policy." guest: i would agree that we have not had a very good and thorough discussion about how we provide health care and the terms for that and who benefits and who does not. this is clearly one example of a much broader discussion that is needed in the united states about health care and who gets it and who does not and the quality of that care. host: new york city, charles. republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. first of all let me just say i

am not an advocate of abortions, but i also believe that there is a time when they are needed and they should be allowed to happen. and then i look at all of these people fighting to murder their children and i think to myself why should we fight that, let them get rid of their kids because a lot of those people i would not want to have children anyway. i am saying that i think the republicans are going the wrong way. they ought to embrace it because the democrats have been using this for years and like i say, a lot of them that i see fighting for the right to murder their children i would not want them to have a child anyway. and i would take it one step further and wish that their chip -- that their parents believe the same way they believed. host: another comment from new york from tony and long island with a question for you. "has data come out against --

about the consequences of abortion restrictions and do abortion clinics have stock of these pills?" guest: the data is coming out and there is a very large study that came out recently from the society for family-planning and they found that the share of abortions was down by 7% so we are seeing in the clinics where it is legal a reduction. although what has happened is that individuals who are seeking abortion are moving and getting their abortion from states where it is legal. i think it is going to be a while before we know the impact and it is a difficult thing to study because there is or has been a lot of stigma around abortion and now there is concern about criminality. so tracking the number of abortions becomes more and more difficult, particularly when we

see greater numbers of individuals self managing abortions, that is getting abortions through channels of traditional health-care providers. host: tom is in alabama on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for having her on the show. my question to her is about one thing, about the supreme court ruling on carryback -- carrie beck and the supreme court ruling about eugenics in 1927. and that law that they sterilized carrie beck is still on the record and is still the law. my question is, the same supreme court who is saying that abortion is illegal they say that eugenics was legal, but i

do not -- i do not know who supports abortion why don't they bring up this conflict dating argument with the republicans and with the supreme court because you cannot have it both ways. thank you. and one other question, they are doing eugenics right now in the prison systems. the doctors are performing eugenics on women without their knowledge. and when they find out after they have the surgery against their will they find out that they no longer can have babies, they have been doing this for years. thank you. host: any thoughts on that. guest: well, a lot of the antiabortion advocacy has cited

that this is eugenics and there is no grounding that i have seen that basically says that abortion access is equivalent to eugenics in this country at all. these are also, any of these, there are laws still on the books. the court does not make the laws, congress makes the laws and repeals them. the court views their role as interpreting the laws so they are probably many laws on the books and in congress right now that really have no current applicability, comstock law might be one of those that we are going to be focused on very soon. but, they are still on the books. host: one more. this is janet from illinois. go ahead. caller: i am calling about one of the biggest factors in abortion, the catholic church meddling and women's business as they have been for many years.

if you were a young girl in the 60's going to a catholic school the last year school year senior year you were given a course in marriage and you were told that once you get pregnant you are the secondary vessel, not the primary vessel. you are the thing that did not matter. the most important thing was the baby you were about to bring forth. that is the situation in this world today. who decides what happens to that body? the persons who should decide is the woman herself. host: one more question and we kind of touched on the texas case a lot. the washington state case, what is next involving the states who have approved use of mifepristone? guest: the fda has asked the judge to clarify how they should

proceed in light of the texas ruling. so that case right now, we have two conflicting rulings for the fda so, how this is going to be handled is likely when you have that situation in two quarts, two district courts that have yet to be appealed. it is likely to be headed to the supreme court. host: kfs reporting studies on this issue and many more health issues all available at kff .org. their senior vice president with us this morning thank you so much. still ahead on the c-span networks coming up at 10:45 we will bring you live coverage of the president speaking to the irish parliament commemorating the 20th anniversary of the good friday agreement at 1045 eastern.

later at 1:55 the chamber of congress will hold a u.s.-ukraine near ship for -- partnership forum. we will have coverage on c-span and on the mobile app, c-span out and streaming live at c-span.org. that will do it for washington journal this morning. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern and we hope that you are as well. have a good day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> coming up life today at 10:40 5 a.m. eastern, president biden delivers remarks to the irish parliament as part of his overseas trip commemorating the 25th anniversary of the good friday agreement.

also live at 1:55 p.m., the u.s. chamber of commerce hosts the partnership forum with business executives discussing economic and investment opportunities in ukraine. this will also stream live on c-span now and at c-span.org. tonight, virginia senator tim kaine and others gathered to reflect on the 20th anniversary of the iraq war and foreign and domestic policy, hosted by the cato institute. watch at 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, our free mobile video app, or online. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. it is provided by television companies including cox. >> homework can be hard, but squatting in a diner for internet is harder.

we want affordable internet so homework can just be homework. >> cox supports c-span as a public service along with other providers, giving you a front row seat. c-span campaign 2024 coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, and events, to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network. ceased -- c-span now. or anytime online at c-span.org. your unfiltered view of politics. next, south carolina republican senator tim scott speaking at a fundraiser in cedar rapids, iowa.

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