coming up next on washington journal, your phone calls and on our spotlight on podcasts fernando espuelas discusses his podcast and ryan evans on the war in ukraine conflict in the withdraw from afghanistan. washington journal starts now. good morning it is saturday, april 15 2023.

republican hopefuls headed to indianapolis to talk to the -- nra annual meeting. against that backdrop polling shows increasing numbers of republicans support some new restrictions on gun ownership. we will reflect on gun laws with republicans only on this session of washington journal today. which gun law changes would you change? if you are a republican in the eastern and central time zones call (202) 748-8000, if you are a republican in the mountain and pacific time zones (202) 748-8001, you can also text at (202) 748-8003 or catch up with us on twitter at http://twitter.com/cspanwj or facebook facebook.com/cspan.

you can go ahead and starkly now. we take you to the polling on republicans and gun laws. axios has the headlines, republicans feel about bid support for stricter gun laws after the nashville shootings. take a look at the share of voters by party that says they support stricter gun control laws back in january of 2023. the numbers among republicans that support stricter gun laws is at 37%. after the national shooting and jumped up to 47%. almost half of republicans support stricter gun support laws. in indiana, the nra convention began and is taking place all weekend long. headlights coming from that convention.

from the wall street journal, gun politics is embraced in newsmax with their wrap up of the republican hopefuls appearance at the nra. trump to nra i will be your loyal friend in champion. trump had died the event yesterday and here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> each and one -- all these attacks need the monster to act out their demonic fantasy unchallenged. they don't want challenge. the only way to stop wicked axes to make sure any sicko that shoots up a school that within seconds they will face certain death. they have to know that. they will be doing that. for this reason i will ask congress to repeal ineffective

legislation that makes it harder to protect our schools and easier for criminals to face no opposition when they go in. i will also create a new tax credit to reimburse any teacher for the full cost of a concealed carried trading arm and training from a qualified expert. if 5% of teachers, people who are skilled with arms, we'd want that. 5% were voluntarily armed and trained to stop after -- active shooters we would have effective deterrence of the problem with cease to example. these would all be people trained and touted with firearms. for 12 billion dollars we could find armed security guards and arm every willing teacher. host: former president trump

yesterday. we will play more of his appearance in the appearance of other gop hopefuls and 2024. it is breitbart that is focusing on that address, donald trump pledges tax credits for teachers who trained to be armed. we will wrap up that meeting and is going on all weekend long in indianapolis. we are talking to republicans only asking what gun laws would you support? what new changes would you support? (202) 748-8000 if you are a republican in the eastern or central time zones, (202) 748-8001 if you are republican in the mountain and pacific. two wisconsin first, this is keith. caller: good morning john and good morning america. i think we have enough gun laws right now. the threat coming from the left

that weapons of war are being used, it is just ridiculous because the ar-15 is a civilian version of weapons of war. assault weapons are being used by police and military. that is it. i have an ar-15 and i use it for home protection, hunting and i use that for target shooting with my wife and my sons because it has hardly any cake to it and it's a single shot rifle. people cannot use weapons of war because those are automatic rifles in the ar-15 does not stand for automatic rifle. it stands for the company that invented it, arm light. host: you said there are enough gun laws on the books. are we not doing a good enough

job to enforce gun laws and if so, which ones? caller: the only thing that needs enforcement is these people who are target shooting, they are going after places that don't have security. the nra is the premier gun safety organization in the country. they have a program called school shield where they go to us cool and give free advice on how to make the place less of a target for the students. we have gun laws that are fine and we don't need any more gun laws and i think the ones we have are fine. is the ones that are not being enforced, they should be enforced. the rhetoric coming from the left on weapons of war and everything else is just false. host: are you an nra member? caller: yes i am. host: how long? caller: i've been a member for 10 years. host: why did you join?

caller: i like learning about gun safety and what i was able to teach my sons because they wanted to be hunters. it's an organization that helped us realize what we needed to know to be safe gun users. host: we will hand to indiana, mike, go ahead. caller: i believe the need to really ban all these assault weapons that do all the damage and try to get them off the streets. the problem is, we have so many on the streets, hot guns on the streets. you can buy these guns anywhere. you can buy them right here in this little area that i am not. you can buy a hot gun on the

west side of town with no problem at all. host: you are a republican? caller: yes, i am a republican. host: where do you think the party is with new changes to gun laws. we saw a bipartisan bill passed last year. do you think the republican party is in step with the feelings of republicans like yourself? caller: not really. it is about 50-50. the idea of these hot guns, these illegal guns that people by. these assault weapons, military assault weapons, these bullets they just kill people.

that is what they are made to do. they don't hunt with them. those are the guns they really need to get off the streets and a lot of the stuff is coming from the border. we live in indiana and they act like in chicago, they are trying to find guns in indiana. they get those guns from mexico. they are coming through the border. all the hot guns are. host: if it comes down to it, is support or opposition for an assault weapon ban, is that a deal breaker for you for a presidential vote? is this the highest priority for you when it comes to picking a

candidate? caller: no, not really. host: what is higher? caller: probably securing the border would be my highest thing , if we get this border secure, that would eliminate a lot of the illegal guns on the streets and if they would -- the laws that are in the books especially on the democrats cities, the criminals are not being punished. host: we've got your point. this is lori out of rancho santa margarita, california. caller: the only way i can phrase it is, if the criminals have gone and they have

automatic weapons you have to use force against force. if they can throw a molotov cocktail, you need to stop them from prosecuting you for shooting someone who is trying to destroy you or your property or trying to do riots. it may well be coming again. stop the riots, don't let people do that. i live in portland -- like in portland and seattle. don't give the power to mayors to pull back the police. host: for folks who don't understand that reference, what do you mean by the rittenhouse effect. caller: he shot in killed two rioters who had guns and wounded

a third one. he went to trial, they were shooting at him but he killed them. the blue da wanted to prosecute him for having a gun. criminals can kill you but you can't kill them with the same firepower. if they could ever get rid of automatic weapons fine. but you don't tell people that. criminals have it, they don't have to buy it. there are more guns in america and the people. there is no point in trying to ban guns. you just ban them from the people who need to have guns to defend themselves. host: kyle rittenhouse was 17 years old but during that unrest in kenosha, wisconsin 2020 when that happened. we have marvin in somerville, texas. we are talking to republicans

only, what gun law changes would you like to see? caller: the biggest problem we have is the people who are using guns even and robberies, assaults, wherever they are being used they are not being prosecuted. i am an older guy and to springfield 22 semi-automatic rifle when i was just a child. it held 17 shells and it would shoot every time he pull the trigger. people were not killing each other. there were laws and if you broke the law you are punished. they had capital punishment for repeat offenders, that should come back. we don't need so many new laws. we need to take the people off the streets who are doing

illegal -- whatever you would call a crime and it maybe should be federalized if it is done in a school shooting or a multiple person shooting. it should maybe be federalized and the death penalty should be pretty quick. host: that was marvin. we have this conversations with republicans only in the wake of the opening of the annual meeting of the national rifle association and indianapolis. we showed you trump addressing the crowd. vice president was also there and here's what he had to say yesterday. [video clip] >> were gathered today at this nra leadership forum for a

challenging time in our nation. there was a tragedy in the heartland in the past several days. the christian school in nashville, tennessee in a branch in louisville, kentucky. the bible says we mourn with those who mourn and grieve with those who grieve. i know i speak with everyone here when i say that our hearts in our prayers are with all the families that suffered loss and injury in these unspeakable attacks. ignoring the motivations of the trans activists who killed three children and adults and ignoring the mental health challenges of the man who killed five people and injured eight others in louisville, president biden have returned to the same tired arguments about gun control and gun confiscation. we don't need gun control, we

need crime control. we don't need lectures about the liberties of law-abiding citizens, we need solutions to protect our kids. so i say to joe biden and the gun-control extremist, give up your pipe dreams of gun confiscation in this free society. stop endangering our lives with gun bans and trampling on the god-given rights of the american people every time a tragedy happens. instead you could join us in doing things that would bring real solutions and add safety to american families. you could take steps to end violent crime in our american cities. you could help fight mental

health that's claiming lives every year. and while you're at it, secure the southern border of the united states of america and in this tidal wave of illegal immigrants and drugs pouring into our cities. host: former vice president mike pence in indianapolis at the nra annual meeting. we saw that clip earlier of donald trump. juxtaposing those two appearances, donald trump was welcomed on stage friday at the nra meeting by a standing ovation that spanned two minutes. former vice president mike pence was met with the mix of applause and loud booze that continue as he prepared to speak in a state he earlier served as governor.

that was from the washington post wrap up. we have been asking republicans only, what, changes would you support? looking for your answers on phone lines and via text message and twitter and social media. through text, 30 day background checks that include your social media history and after the requirements are met citizens are allowed to carry and people are allowed to defend themselves. this is from mike in virginia. enforce the books, criminals don't obey laws. all the laws in the world of matter if you don't enforce them. this is john in ventura california, good morning, go ahead. caller: good morning, i grew up

with my dad and we went shooting and i taught my kids how to shoot. we have always had safe guns in our house. responsible, lock them up and everything. i felt safer with guns in my house. the things i would change would be, i would set up -- i would look at the justice system, the justice department and i would take a special court that if you are caught in the mass shooting you are tried before a tribunal the next day and if found guilty you are executed within one week. what it would do would send a message. i look at that aurora shooter and they clean them up and put them in a suit and tie. that's not good. he should have been removed from the earth. i look at the shooting in

buffalo, they caught the guy. if they had done a swift court and executed him within one week the uvalde shooting 10 days later may or may not have happened because this guy would have been an example for the rest of america. host: this is jacqueline in maryland, you're next. caller: hi, good morning. i have a comment more so. one, we have a billion, trillion laws on the books about guns. they are not enforced. we do not need more laws. we need to have the laws that we have enforced. i don't know who these people are that are getting guns

because here in maryland, i only deal with the nra and nra stores who sell weapons and ammunition and they supply the police department as well in this area. if you buy from and nra owned shop you are trained in safety, operation before you ever get that gun in your hand. you have to pass the course. that should be enforced. who are these people getting guns that are not having this training prior in the 30 day background check and all of those things.

the social media, i agree 100% you need to look into people's social media because they love to brag on what they are doing. host: on that front, licensed dealers, you have to go through a background check and they run your information through a background check to be able to sell you a gun. one of the big push is on new gun laws is universal background checks and the folks who support that save the loophole in those background checks is deals made over the internet or at gun shows or between individuals that those background checks that are run through the federal system don't always happen when the purchases are not made through a licensed firearm dealers. is that something you would support? caller: president trump hit the nail on the head. this is a spiritual problem. you are not going to stop any of

these social issues that we are suffering right now in our country. you are not going to solve them with worldly ways, i can tell you that right now. he is exactly right. what we have is a moral decay due to demonic oppression on this country. host: that was jacqueline in maryland. in terms of gun laws, the latest and highly touted thought by the biden administration and members who work in that building behind me was a bipartisan safety of communities act and became law when it was signed by president biden. that law passed in the lower chamber and also pass the senate. it enhances background checks, provides millions for mental health services encloses the boyfriend loophole.

that legislation provides grants to start crisis intervention programs and clarified the definition of a federally licensed firearm dealer and creates penalties for gun trafficking. that was in that bill that was signed into law last year. that is the latest piece of federal gun legislation. they are still calling for a lot more including universal background checks. we are asking republicans only which gun laws which you change specifically? the phone lines if you are in the eastern or central regions (202) 748-8000 mountain or pacific (202) 748-8001. caller: i have been impressed

with their collar so far. i was extremely impressed with the way he presented what many nra members are specifically interested in. you have seen the resources, using the manpower at the local level has done wonders for many rural communities. they may not have a lot of the same resources that urban areas do, but here in pennsylvania, they have always been willing to contribute wherever they can for the education of younger people and i have been very impressed with the folks here in particular. i got in touch with the gentleman after i relocated here from an urban area in pennsylvania. there are certain individuals that have always been involved with the nra and have sponsored

different programs from the youngest to the oldest and they have been at the forefront of trying to put that education to use in any way they possibly can. most of the things holding them back have been individuals who are of a more liberal bent that feel firearm should have no place at all in the life of any family member under the age of 18. host: are you an mra member? caller: i am and one of the reasons i am is because they do it the right way. they have people who are not necessarily members of a hierarchy, they are volunteers but they are all individuals that have taken the training and know how to work with not just younger people but also older people, individuals who are

female that may have a shyness having to do a certain thing. every one of those problems that i have been made aware of, at least in this state, have been immensely successful. host: you talk about the hierarchy of the nra. yesterday, the nra ceo wayne lapierre, here's what he had to say. [video clip] >> this is my 40 fifth year with the national rifle association. if i ever write a book about my experiences with the nra i think i will collect, when you fight like hell for freedom you get more of it. that is how it really works and you will know that. here in indiana, law-abiding gun owners no longer have to get government permission to carry a firearm for self-defense.

it is called constitutional carry and hoosiers have it because nra members fought like hell for freedom and got more of it. in fact, nra members have liberated more than half the nation with constitutional carry but we are not stopping until it is the law of the land and all of the land. i promise you that. i know we will get there because i have watched you, nra members fight like hell for freedom and get more of it and when over and over again. you, teachers, police officers, lawyers, cashiers, electricians, nurses, surgeons, code writers and truck drivers.

you, moms and dads educating your kids about freedom every day. you, democrats, republicans and independents. you paper punchers and safety instructors. you men and women of the nra you fight like hell for freedom and you get more of it. you don't need government to tell you the sky is blue, water is wet or that you have a god-given right to self-defense. our founding fathers said the second amendment freedom arrived the day you were born and it shall not be infringed. host: wayne lapierre yesterday

at that nra annual meeting. it continues today. he was talking in that clip about constitutional carry, permit list carry. it is the concealed carious association with their map of states that allow permit list carry and so called constitutional carry, the states in green are the ones that allow permit list carry and the ones in yellow don't require concealed carry. we are talking with republicans only asking what gun laws you would support? jane, in indiana. caller: i really appreciate c-span in this conversation going on. i have two granddaughters studying in spain, into large cities. they are reporting that there

are no mass shootings, people don't carry guns. can you find out what is going on because they have been perfectly safe day or night walking anywhere. i looked up there gun laws and they are very strict. they are around and checking people very carefully in several categories. mental health, age, a long review before anyone can carry a gun. it is just not part of their culture and i was just curious about that. host: what would you like to see happen in the united states? what do you want your party to support? caller: i would like to at least

see, my husband is in the service of my brothers have weapons. at least in indiana, we reversed any checking and that is disappointing to me to sit here and watch these mass shootings going on. i would like to see that at a minimum. host: you are talking about universal background checks or concealed carry? caller: extensive universal background checks before anyone can carry a weapon. i would also like to see some kind of a training program when somebody does have a gun. i heard a woman of color who was a nurse and her son purchased weapons. they took lessons and learning how to shoot and protect

themselves and protect themselves in their own neighborhood. i said that's a pretty good idea but there was no background check on them. the universal background and some kind of education that people have referred to already. that would be good. host: this is jeff from centerville, tennessee. caller: good morning john. background checks, it is real easy. i have sold individual weapons at a gun show. it would be fine to go over there and get a check through the fbi. every citizen that is legal has no problem doing that. that is not a problem. host: all this discourse over the gun show loophole, you think

that's not such a big deal? a background check is totally fine and easy to do. caller: they can just set up another booth, when i sell my weapon i want to sell -- no gun owner wants to sell their web into a criminal. they are around there. that is not a problem. i guarantee you, all of the legal gun owners have no problem with that. the illegal guns, all of this stuff. the mass shooter, the liberals made her, they made that girl. she was confused. she got the legal weapon in that school did such a good job and all they needed, anybody with a

knife could have taken that girl out. it was a harder target and they did a great job of lockdowns. anybody with the pistol could have taken her out. she did not know what she was doing with that weapon. they all came down and took over the tennessee capital, kamala harris comes down and supports them. does not have anything to do with the six families that were lost there. this is just another black push -- host: can i come back to background checks. you sold the gun out a gun show. when you sell at a gun show, you don't do a background check

system, there is not one there for you to use? you say nobody wants to sell a gun to a criminal. what do you do when you are selling a gun? how do you make sure you are not selling a gun to a criminal? caller: you just look at them and you give them a bill of sale. you look at their license and you can look at their id. host: are you still with us jeff? caller: i didn't hear your question there. host: finish your thought about not selling to a criminal? caller: you are just looking at the guys eyes. i sold the clock -- glock there but there were criminals in that area. they were outside. host: this is don out of

california. thank you for being up early with us. caller: i am a republican and i am a member of the national rifle association so i guess that makes me double bad. i do not support any more gun laws. especially gun laws proposed by people who hate guns and lie in order to get there crazy laws passed. you are talking about background checks. 99.99% of the shooters pass a background check. how is a background check going to make me safe? it's not going to make me safe. the background checks we have our is about as good as were going to get. if you say they are going to make me safe, you are lying. name the shooter who did not

pass a background check? can you tell me one? host: i am listening to you don. caller: talking about how great universal background checks are. i live in california, we have the worst gun laws you can think of. we still have these mass shootings. i am not going to blame an inanimate object, the gun doesn't sprout legs and go around shooting people. you have to tell me what gun law you would support that would keep me in my second amendment. all you can think of is to make it hard to get a gun. that is all you've got on your minds is to take away, take away, take away. quit trying to take things away. host: what we are asking this

morning, are there any gun law changes you would support? the phone lines are split this way, eastern and central is (202) 748-8000, mountain and pacific (202) 748-8001. having this conversation of the first hour in the wake of yesterday's kick off the annual national rifle association. republican candidates traveling to speak there. this is nick down in florida, you are next. caller: i agree with that last caller but for me, i don't think there should be any gun laws and i will explain. the constitution have a bill of rights. it's not a bill of government grants. he is correct about people passing background checks causing problems. we need enforcement. you need laws that punish the distribution of firearms, not gun laws. if someone robs a bank and they

get 20 years. if you use a gun, you get 40. laws like that and leave everybody else alone. host: nick in florida, it was ron desantis who was not in attendance at the event in indianapolis but one of those candidates who sent a message to the nra and played on the video screen for attendees. here is what ron desantis said yesterday. [video clip] >> the second amendment ensures that american citizens have the capacity to defend their lives and honor. the last upper freedom the foundation which all of our rights left. -- russ. the capacity of the people to defend themselves, it is no coincidence that throughout history one of the first things authoritarian regimes of thought to do is disarm their own

citizens. i find it curious that the same people who advocate the funding law enforcement spread hostility for individual gun rights. they want criminals to have the upper hand over law-abiding citizens. as governor, i resisted calls to take out gun control because i understand it is precisely at those moments when the right is unpopular that it needs to champions. we have gone on offense to expand individual gun rights. i called on the legislature to expand floridians ability to protect themselves and we delivered. earlier this month i signed into constitutional carry legislation that will bring florida and lined with 25 other states that recognize the fundamental right of law-abiding american citizens to keep and bear arms without a government issue permission slip

. because of our efforts in florida, we have a majority of states that recognize such a right. your efforts in tallahassee in state capitals around the country pave the way for us to get the legislation across the finish line. we are concerned about how the polities they should and of our economy and woke capital has threatening applications for second amendment rights. too many financial institutions discriminate against those in the firearm industry including owners of gun stores. they are trying to impose his anti-second amendment on society. when they cannot do through the normal political process. we are enacting legislation's against woke financial institutions. no one should be discriminated against because they are gun owners are there involved with the gun industry.

we cannot allow administrative agencies of the federal government to enact gun restrictions through administrative fiat. we oppose that in the state of florida and we will fight back against that. host: florida governor ron desantis yesterday, his message at the nra taking place in indianapolis. about 15 minutes left, we are talking only to republicans. go ahead and keep calling in and as you call and keeping you updated on two stories that we've been tracking throughout the past several days. this from the wall street journal, the supreme court temporarily blocked a lower court order that would have limited access to the abortion drug mifepristone beginning on saturday.

ensuring the ability to fill and leave approvals and change during legal bado with antiabortion groups. alito said the lower current that suspended the approval gave antiabortion groups to noon tuesday to file briefs in the company that makes the branded version of the pill. the temporary orders expire midnight on wednesday stating a high court decision in what way the pill will be made available during litigation. the other major story that we have been talking about, the discord leaks. the massachusetts national guard member accused of leaking information charged friday with

transmission of national sensitive information retention of classified documents. those charges were brought up in his appearance of federal court with the maximum of 15 years in prison. he is expected to have a hearing on wednesday and possibly pleading at that point. back to your phone calls as we talk about the nra meeting yesterday and gun laws in this country ask a republicans only, what if any gun law changes would you support? hannah from bel air, texas. caller: i am a gun owner. i don't see why we don't see the principal point of these young kids are hearing -- i don't have a problem with background checks. if we can get these young kids to be more responsible gun

owners and should be promoting the responsibility to young people. everybody has to come together instead of always fighting with one another. just like they go all out to make it a happy situation, let's do the same with gun owners. guns are not bad, but theoretically young kids have no business with ar-15's. let them be older, more responsible, but us as adults have to stop being angry. what is the problem with getting a background check? host: anna out of texas.

you talk about a ban on ar-15's. we started this segment talking about support for various gun law changes in this country. now paul back on april 1 from ugov asked about assault weapons republican said they support a ban on assault weapons, democrats had 84%. one of those polls on gun laws. axios had a poll out earlier. caller: good morning, i look at the gun issue as being a person who has owned several guns myself. i am an avid hunter. i don't think the three day cooling off. is enough. i think it needs to be longer than that to purchase a gun. the other thing i see as a

government we tried to look for how to pay for something without charging taxes. as a gun owner, i believe last year there were 16 million gun sold. before that, it was 20 million guns. if they charged a $25 per gun charge for mental health, i would be in favor for that. host: what would that money go for? caller: i would say for mental health and background checks trying to get to speed that system up so that we are not giving people guns that really shouldn't be. the mental health issue in the united states is really bad. we don't have a whole lot of money that supports it. crime is always high when the economy is bad. host: on mental health, what is

your take on the red flag laws that allow a family member to seek a court order to temporarily take away the gun of somebody that they think might harm themselves or harm others? are you in support of expanding red flag laws in this country? caller: i think it is something to consider. who knows better? you look at people in the passage of done it our government has failed and background checks to find out what is going on. i think a family member would know more about a person. i know you always risk the issue of someone just out of spite trying to take away somebody's gown. for the most part, it would probably make sense to do something like that. host: that was tyrone out of illinois.

in your text message, i support banning assault weapons, buybacks, insurance for gun owners in making gun manufacturers contribute to have fun for victims of gun violence. this was from paul in delaware, we have been sold a bill of goods sing we could fix things if we had the will. no gun control legislation will not solve the problem with 400 million guns in this country. mark from california, you're up next. caller: good morning and thank you c-span. ron desantis said it pretty well. i am in california. i recently applied for a weapons permit and what a pain in the neck.

the control freak totalitarians in california made it virtually impossible to be a gun owner. the change i would make is very simple. read the constitution. shall not be infringed. not infringed if you have a pt w or permission to carry a weapon. the weapons are there to protect them from totalitarian control freaks. it is time to get rid of these gun laws and let people enjoy their individual liberties are constitution set forth. host: this is brad from texas. caller: good morning to everybody. i hope everyone is having a beautiful day. i used to own lots of guns and the i got older i decided i never want to take a life so i got rid of all of my guns. as far as gun laws, it is the people you need to bank the laws

against and we have one party that preaches that we are all different and do identity politics and they point at the other. you don't have to hate them because they don't like you. if you got rid of democratic voters and did not let them have guns you would get rid of 70-80% of all murders. this is rod in pennsylvania. caller: i have a few things. what we need is education more than anything. i have heard all these people talk about assault weapons. i am ex military, they are not assault weapons. second of all, get background checks. they don't work. they do and they don't. criminals are standing in line to get background checks for

weapons. it doesn't work. they want to put more laws on the books, more laws, more laws. ok, what about on the highways? we put more stops in different shades of red to stop. bigger speed limit signs on the road. host: use a background checks do and don't work? what are the ways in which they do work and how can we make them work better? caller: you can take a background check and so mike could be perfectly normal. a couple of years down the road, something happens and they snapped. you have medications that say warning, you may want to hurt yourself or hurt somebody else, right on the labels. you get people who are ok and pass their background checks and like i said, something snaps in

them. what do you do then? then the ones -- these shootings, every one of them that happened. you heard somebody said this person was going to be doing this or that. the only thing the fbi knew about this person but yet they go and shoot somebody and then something is done. host: this is jim from bowling green, ohio. caller: i just want to say, i think schools have to be fortified. they have to be more secure. nobody wants to see children hurt. i think they need to find out why these people are doing it. if it is a mental health issue and we need to work on that. we have to stop it and the way

to go after this is the root cause. let's find out and we need to secure buildings. host: back at the nra convention, former president trump was talking about the mental health issues behind recent mass shootings, here's what some of he had to say. [video clip] >> we need to drastically change our approach to mental health. i will direct the fda to convene an outside panel to investigate whether transgender hormone treatments increase the risk of extreme depression, aggression and violence. most of us already know the answer don't we? we have to look at whether common psychiatric drugs as well as genetically engineered cannabis and other narcotics are causing psychotic breaks.

we are having problems we have never seen before and people think they understand why. we have to be much better at detecting warning signs of people, disturbed young men like the one who murdered colleagues in louisville. we cannot risk until we get to the bottom of the sickness we are seeing in our country. host: president trump in indianapolis at the nra kickoff. we will take your calls and finish up this conversation with republicans only as we ask, what if any gum on changes would you support? john you are in pennsylvania, good morning. caller: i believe that most of these shooters that have gone into the schools at a young age, i definitely believe 25 years old should be the age to

bioweapon unless you are in law enforcement or in the military. after you buy that weapon, i believe that these should make you go through an extensive course in learning how to use that weapon and put a fee on that course and use that fee to help the people that have been killed by gun violence. host: do you want a weapon? caller: yes i do. host: what age did you buy that weapon? caller: during vietnam, i witness into the service as soon as 18. we have extensive training and weaponry. anyone in the military, i had top-secret clearance while i was in there. it's ridiculous that they let these kids by these weapons. it has nothing to do with hunting because you can go with your dad and grandfather, you don't have to own a weapon but

you can still hunt. host: what do you say to the caller who was siding the second amendment, how do you comport that with having to be 25 years old to own a gun. caller: raise the age unless you are in law enforcement or military. look at the age of these kids buying weapons and shooting people out. it is. host: this is done in nebraska, good morning. caller: some quick points, number one, a person walks into a bank and the first thing they see is a sticker that says no guns allowed. that's an illustration of the ridiculous issues -- laws for

these issues. the assault weapons issue, one, it is never mentioned and they have trouble identifying assault weapons. take for example the shotgun, there are 20 bbs in the show. if my math is correct, considerable number of saws that come out of his shotgun with rapidfire with only three-five pulls of a trigger could do a whole lot of damage and that has nothing to do with an ar-15. host: the sign on the door of the bank you were talking about. i wonder your thoughts on this bed from the washington post wrap up of the nra meeting. at the nra meeting, due to secret service security

requirements, guns were not allowed in the room where the 2024 candidates spoke yesterday in an announcement on the nra website. >> that is another issue. where you have public servants and public celebrities and things like that, i can fully understand things like that. all the other hand, at a gun show, i do not recall there ever being a mass shooting a gun show. there are plenty of guns there and a lot of people at gun shows are wearing guns. you cannot really compare this fairly. i do not believe assault weapons are an issue because a .22 remington that is carrying 15 rounds of ammunition would under definition be an assault weapon. it is crazy. people trying to pass these laws

do not know anything about guns. host: we have a few minutes left. want to get more calls in. roberta, san diego, good morning. caller: i don't have a lot to say the others have not already said. people say, a gun to stop off-the-shelf on its own. someone has to pick it up and do the dirty deeds with it. yet, as we speak about these things, we do not seem to remember that. we always use the gun like it went out and got in the car and went down the street and shot people. we should have moral values. look how we talk about every day abortion, killing, and take all value of life every solitary day as a group of people. we should all be ashamed when we

know there are other ways of taking care of burke trial except that. -- of birth control except that. we have already taken away the value of life. look what happened a few years back. when they started talking about guns, people went out and because they thought they were going to take away the guns, they went and bought guns. i have not owned guns in years. i have never shot anything that moved except -- i only shot bottles and cans. as a country and a nation, we are too busy looking at everyone else to complain about everyone else. instead, start looking inside each one of us and what we are doing to make the world a better place. or are we just going to complain and point fingers at someone else because of their decisions. host: our last caller.

sit around on saturdays on washington journal. we often put a spotlight on podcasts. we are doing this twice this morning. first, fernando espuelas to discuss his podcast called "the x-ray with fernando espuelas" and its focus on politics and power in washington. there this morning, -- later this morning, the "war on the rocks" podcast host ryan evans. on the war in ukraine. stick around. ♪ ♪

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c-span 2024. watch on c-span now, our free mobile video app, or anytime online at c-span.org. your unfiltered view of politics. announcer: a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. citizens are truly informed. a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is her own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. announcer: washington journal continues. host: the first of a double dose of spotlight on podcasts, fernando espuelas joins us.

the host of "the x-ray with fernando espuelas". when the two it and what sets it apart? guest: about a month ago, we launched. the focus is politics from a different angle which is what i am really fascinated about his power. how power works? why people act in a certain way just across the street from here. and trying to bring this information to our audience so they can understand how it works. anywhere else outside washington is so crazy as it is hard to understand. what is happening is something basic which is how does power work? other people manipulate it for their own benefit and the benefit of others? host: on the washington post this week, how did you explore the power with him? esko it was looking behind the headlines. not just wet -- guest: not just

what people are doing but how do we understand things like the tennessee three. is that part of a bigger dynamic? what is motivating people? a lot of politics podcast talk about policy which is important but there is a motivation behind that which is about the confluence of money and power. host: how often do you drop new episodes? in a city in which power dynamics can change hour-by-hour or minutes by minutes, how do you pick what aspect to talk about on a weekly basis? guest: we have a new episode every thursday. have done a special episode with the trump indictment. we are not stuck to the only once per week schedule. i used to do talk radio every day for many years. doing just one episode a week feels very light to me. so we have but episodes too. host: the abortion debate is

back on the table. the supreme court with a stay on the decision of the abortion pill, stay on the market for a while. you will find out, perhaps mid next week, what the final say will be on it. the power dynamics around the abortion debate in this country. guest: it has become an explosive issue since the decision we saw in the midterm elections. we saw this in kansas and we are seeing this again through these court cases. 70% of americans, more or less, once abortion rights to be maintained at some level. i think the republican party in particular has been wetted to and is going deep into a shorter abortion ban. so forth, it is a political problem. problem has been primary voters want one thing but the rest of the general election voters want something different.

host: it was ron desantis who signed a six week abortion ban into law this week. what this means for him, and a lot of discussions about the politics and the alignment he is walking. guest: it seems on the edge of suicidal clinically because of the average -- the evidence that mounted that this is a mainstream point of view. i do not think anybody is in favor of abortion but there is a broad majority of americans who think women are sovereign over their own bodies and should be able to make decisions with their doctors within certain metrics. someone going in the opposite direction seldom -- so dramatically will stand out not in a good way. host: fernando espuelas is our guest, the host of the "the x-ray with fernando espuelas" podcast. if you want to join the conversation, he is with us until 8:45 eastern. republicans, (202) 748-8001.

democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. how long have you been in the journalism business and podcasting business? guest: i was a journalist in college which -- with huge breaks in the middle. i started podcasting a few years ago. this is the purest form of my podcasting experience. just podcast, no radio. host: what was star media? guest: the first internet company for spanish and portuguese speakers. i have gone back and forth between business and journalism and it be in a big public company in the 90's. host: what did it do? guest: it connected latin america to the world for the first time. it innovated a whole bunch of different ways. free email and things that seem very normal. we invented it at the time.

host: what is its legacy? is it still around? esko it was sold several times. it is no longer around. but we had the first news channel. it was very unpleasant but -- it started at dialup which was unpleasant but at that time, it was a revolution. host: how has podcasting changed not just the journalism industry but how we talk about journalism in this town and the communications industry? guest: i love podcasting because it has the best elements of radio but is nonlinear. you are able to grab what you want, when you want. you can bring it to yourself. it is very immediate. you can go deeper on issues that you could not do on radio with eight minute segments work television with even shorter segments.

we have the opportunity now. this is really great. it actually does feed this problem of a media diet. you can essentially create your own podcast diet where you are only hearing what you want to hear, as opposed to being challenged. host: you make your own echo chamber. guest: you start listening to people you like which means they tell you what they believe in. i hope people start to understand they need to have a very -- varied diet and hear different points of views. host: fernando espuelas has a podcast called "the x-ray with fernando espuelas" and i assume people can get it anywhere. guest: yes. apple or spotify. host: line for democrats, good morning. caller: i was just listening to

you. i do understand the politics. i think if he was trying to run for election, he would have to be worried about the average. in order for reality, he definitely needs to align with his political party. i do not think it is actually weird for -- host: you are hard to get there. was talking about the politics of ron desantis and signing the six week abortion ban into law. guest: i cannot really make out the question but this is the conundrum for republicans not just ron desantis. republican base voters are really to the right of mainstream republican voters. get the same way the democratic primary voters are to the left of the mainstream of democrats. abortion seems to be binary. either you are completely in

favor for some version -- or some version of against. he is going so far to the right which will be very powerful for primary voters. but how does he get independents and republicans. for example, the boat in kansas. it was a very republican state but that was a thunderous vote in favor of abortion rights. those are voters he will lose in this process. host: stan out of florida. independent. caller: i watched a little of the thing when donald trump was talking. again, he said he won the election and he was cheated. and bill barr is a no good republican. and mike pence is a traitor. he also said that nancy pelosi could have put the national guard at the capitol on january 6 which is a life. she does not have the ability to

do anything on january 6. he is going after all the prosecutors. host: are you talking about his speech yesterday to the nra? caller: every time his mouth is moving, he is lying. host: this appearance by the former president the nra. guest: this is the big question. if trump is so self-referential and constantly repeating what is now objectively proven not to be true, about the election being stolen in some fashion, how does this win have one extra vote he did not win in 2020? the other side is he is surging in the polls. it in the latest polls after the indictment. is this working for him? it is working for him with the base voter but how does it win him independent voters and right-leaning democrats that may be interested in supporting a more conservative candidate? host: talking with fernando espuelas, from "the x-ray with

fernando espuelas" podcast. not his first appearance on c-span. it was back in april 2013. your first appearance, speaking at a panel "the state of latino america." 10 years later, what do you think the state of latino america is? guest: it is quite chaotic. i have the same analysis -- maybe i have not thought it through more than 10 years ago. we lack leadership. there are not big iconic latino political leaders in this country yet. we said this 10 years ago and will probably say it again in five years. that is a huge limiting factor. ultimately, among many ethnic groups but particularly latinos, we have a terrible brand in this country because there is a lot

of tension in the media. there is a lot of exportation of immigration issues which somehow become latino issues. we are not being understood as americans in this country still. i am not blaming anybody but ourselves and the lack of leadership. host: were just talking about donald trump. in 2020, we saw a shift in latino voters, very pronounced in the state of florida toward republicans and donald trump. guest: that is at interesting -- an interesting dynamic. i have seen that in the state of florida and certain areas of texas. i think young the tino's are open to ideas. it is less about republicans and more about democrats. democrats have done the same thing over and over which is promised immigration reform. it is a symbolic issue because most latinos were born in the u.s., so it is not an

immigration issue. but they do not deliver. the reason they do not deliver is because there is an implacable blocked by republicans. but they should not promise it when they cannot deliver. president biden, the first day of the white house, sent a proposal to republicans, knowing it was dead on arrival. that creates levels of expectation and complete disappointment. when you try to explain it is the fault of the republicans, it is a nonsensical argument. do not promise or explain it at front because it will not happen until you vote for our party. host: are there any building blocks to a grand immigration reform deal? guest: it has to start with honesty. when you look at the problems we have a deliverable in the country today, what can he do about that? you need immigrants. not illegal immigrants or people coming through the borders in a disorderly fashion that you need

to open up immigration in a much bigger way to satisfy the economic need of the country. why are people coming to the country in master the southern border? because central america is a failed region. these states are not functional states. people are desperately trying to escape. people in the u.s. can say, why is that our problem? you have to solve the problem in some fashion. until the u.s. does a marshall plan for central america, which is unpopular in the u.s., like why are we sending money to someplace else, this is a problem that will continue on. this is a profound issue on both sides of the aisle. ultimately, whoever is going to champion has to make the economic argument. when you have immigration into the country, orderly, well structured, it creates economic growth and creates jobs. it is the opposite of what is being sold which is a pie that

never grows. someone takes a slice of my pie, i lose. that is not true. economics makes the pie grow and makes it more prosperous over time. those are the arguments that need to be put forth. the question is, when immigration has become essentially a political football, there is nothing else around it, no one is making rational arguments, how do you step back from that and explain it to the american people? host: in the more immediate future, what are your thoughts on the end of title 42? guest: this is the role that keeps people -- ok. i am in favor of controlling the southern border. host: this is the pendant era -- guest: that kept people from coming across the border. yes. there are rules to say someone fleeing some sort of danger can come to the u.s. for refuge. i think that is a very important thing. i think that to the extent there

is a perception of chaos on the border, this creates an environment in which no immigration reform can advance. we are talking about a very hard issues are being exploited for political purposes on both sides. both sides is a weak thing for me to have said. the cracks want immigration reform for whatever reason and republicans do it is not both sides. the question is how do you bring it together? i am a huge fan boy of john mccain. i interviewed him several times of several shows. whatever else, he understood the dynamic about the future of the country. he wanted economic growth and immigration in the country. there are no john mccains left in d.c.. until we have someone of that vision, able to articulate this in a way that brings things together, this is intractable.

unfortunately, people are suffering at the border. they are desperate and whether they are desperate, they send their kids. imagine sending a child across the border because this is the safer option than keeping them with you in guatemala or wherever. it is a tragic situation. all of a sudden, we are halfway through our segment. host: pact, decatur, illinois. caller: i was calling about the opening comments about basically the abortion issue and ron desantis's move to put an six week limit on the time for abortion. it seemed to me like your comments were kind of a variant of the undertone and messages we often received from the washington elite that republicans are just stupid. why do they do they do such stupid things? isn't it surprising? the reality is, that sort of

analysis has never applied to things on the democratic side. for example, voter id is an issue that gets 80% approval across the vast majority of demographics including people like blacks and young people. everyone recognizes that as a positive thing. yet, democrats are firmly against it. we never hear that analysis. you leave out the component of leadership of trying to lead people to your point of view and that is what ron desantis is doing. the motivation of the democratic side on the issue is unclear. that is something that is interesting to hear about why they are so dead set against voter id. guest: voter id is not a real issue. when you look at a voter fraud -- look at voter fraud in this country, it has been studied ad nauseam. the idea that people are voting

twice is not a real thing. or that people who are not authorized to vote are not voting -- to vote are voting. the big issue is people do not vote. i spent 10 years in california. you can go to vote in california and show up and say who you are. if you are voting illegally in california, you are going to jail. this is not some mystery. voter id is like immigration. it becomes this totemic issue where people say your vote is being stolen, your boat is being stolen, when it is not. it is an interesting point. we are talking about abortion but now we are talking about voter id as if the two things had anything to do. they are not related issues. i think we can say that if there is a 70% more or less of majority of americans in favor of abortion rights as a politician decides to cut the abortion period to six weeks

before most women even know they are pregnant, without any regard to what women actually want with their own bodies -- this is not a minor issue. this seems politically -- forget the world dimension, it seems politically problematic for ron desantis. how does he defend this in the future if he is the nominee at 70% of americans think this is a no go policy. host: charlie in newton. independent. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i want to talk about how were. how money behind power determines the voices that we hear in our political arenas? it seems like funding has a lot to do with the players we hear

from and silences others and then gives others voices. i am interested to hear. guest: it is 100% that were 99% that. it is all about money. who has the money to -- let me be more specific. most members of congress spent 20% or 25% or 35% of their time raising money. the money they raise conditions their point of view. i am not saying 100% but many issues. i had experience working in april 2 -- in a political lobbying firm. the money translates into donations to many members of congress who then, not magically come about because the same firm given the structure of a bill suddenly becomes the bill or letter that puts out the point of view of the guy who puts $1 million in. this is happening right now.

i am sure it is happening at breakfast somewhere. this transaction is happening. going back to john mccain, money in politics is destroying the fundamentals of democracy. it is distorting it in the most basic way. there are some politicians that rise above it. there are people with integrity. i am not suggesting they are all easy to buy puppets but to many of them are. not to be too harsh. this is what is happening in this country. why don't we have laws to control this? because everyone is feeding at the trough of these kinds of funding. of money for campaigns. we just saw with justice thomas, everything being discovered. it is unbelievable what has happened. people can literally by powerful -- buy powerful, political

figures. this gentleman has it right. power and money are intrinsically connected to each other. host: headed to end up working at lobbying firm? [laughter] guest: i was doing talk radio three hours a day for around eight years. i got totally burnt out and decided -- i was not a lobbyist, i was a strategist. host: what topic area? guest: i do strategic consulting for governments and big companies. because i am a former ceo of a public company, i have a weird ability to help different people. but i got to see my colleagues, who were very nice people and nothing wrong with them, it is a transaction. it is like going to a marketplace and saying, what do you want to sell and i will buy and sell it to someone else? i knew what was happening. i was not like a little boy coming into washington, d.c. but

it was so shocking how open it was. host: carla in denver. democrats. caller: hello. i thought we were talking about podcasts and i have a question about that but i have to tell you, i understand power and money are connected. i woke up this morning thinking about it. my question is, i am 77, and i'm ignorant about podcasts. i don't know how to get on one. at 50-year-old daughter does and listens to them almost exclusively. am i to understand that podcasts , somehow, algorithms feed you what you want to hear and feed into that? i need an answer to this. i am getting all my news from mainstream media, pbs and c-span. thank you c-span. guest: the first thing to know

about podcasts is imagine a radio show but it is no longer on a radio station. you are right. algorithms do feed you something. if you like a certain podcast the medically or because of the host or whatever other reason you like something, the podcast platform, whether apple or spotify or another platform, will recommend podcasts are similar. this is how i discovered many podcasts myself. you are not ignorant. it is new media that reinterprets existing media. i am sure you will love it once you discover it. i am sure your daughter can show you how to get on it and it is free which is nice. host: how do you make money? guest: we do not because that is not our function but normally most podcasts are advertising the supported. host: what is were function? guest: to inform people. we are trying to get americans

to understand what is behind the headline. our responsibility is to be post-partisan which sounds ridiculous at such a level because it is all left-right, left-right, but we are on the verge of having some breakdown in our institutions and our political system. the constitution is a piece of paper that we all believe in until someone comes out and says, no, we need to abolish the constitution, as donald trump said not too long ago. for me to be able to come back to power. these are words that this is how things start. word start to -- wars start to degrade people's respect. we are beyond that. we are beyond the left and white ring -- left and right ring.

i love reading. then, i have to think about gas and how to create a show every week. it is a full-time job. host: if you are not making money off this, how do you find it? guest: issue one who sponsors the podcast funds it. i am free from having to think about advertisers although i spent many years to make commercials for my radio shows. host: 10-15 minutes left with fernando espuelas. david out of louisiana. caller: i am just wondering where all of these immigrants are going to go when this country is becoming just like the country they are running from? most immigrants that come into this country bring their particular crime problem with them like the italians brought the mafia and the irish and jewish and all these groups

bring these controlling elements of which they are running away from. guest: the data does not support that. when you look at crime rates among immigrant groups in general, they are lower than among citizens. immigrants come to this country by and large in you proportions. are they trying to do? what immigrants have done in this country for 300 years which is to improve their lives and make their families more secure and more prosperous. i think this gentleman perhaps is a victim in a way of this information. it has been -- been a classic motif in american history to blame groups of immigrants for crime or other observed problems. benjamin franklin -- there is a famous quote of him. i will not quote him exactly but he is essentially talking about horrible people with dark skin

who refused to speak english. who is he talking about? the germans. because the germans were coming to the colonies. this is a classic motif. the reality is that most people who emigrate have a dream. the dream is to be successful. what happens when someone is successful in this country as they make everyone else successful. our heart -- they are part of a community providing labor and skills and somehow it the country needs. look at what is happening in japan. japan has a declining birth rate. because of cultural reasons, they do not want to accept immigrants and do not know how to emigrate them. what is happening there is a slow decline of their economic capacity. that is one potential future for the u.s. when you look at birthrates, birthrates in every advanced country have declined dramatically. what is the difference, countries able to attract immigration are able to go.

host: stephen, democrat. caller: good morning, happy saturday. thank you for having me. i am a latin man living in kentucky. i have lived in florida. i am from florida originally, miami, so i have seen that part of the country and culture down there. i have had the chance to live in nebraska, colorado, and california. i have seen a lot of different people. i want to talk about older latinos and how they just see -- are so scared of socialism. the word socialism scares them. i mother has called me a socialist thus because i want to see other people -- my mother has called be a socialist just because i want to see other people grow.

i want to hear your opinion on why this is. sometimes you hear the older cuban individual talking about, back in the day, they take from you. it is just fear mongering. host: before fernando espuelas jumps in, why do you think that is? what is your assessment? caller: i understand they have validity with their experiences they had themselves. but i think they are for trained that to, to the future -- portraying that to now, to a different future in a different world than they were living in. they have not caught up or do not want to listen to what has changed. i don't know. it is a great topic. host: do you agree that is happening? guest: absolutely. i lived in miami as well. although i am from uruguay, one of my uncles was cuban. he lost his house and business so i am for member -- familiar

with the dynamic. i think, southern florida republican politicians have been dying out for 50 years on the idea that they are the bulwark against a new castro which would magically happen out of the democratic party. if you listen to talk radio in miami, you would think that communism is arriving the very next morning and you should hide. there is tremendous amount of propaganda. it is good political business to scare older people. they understand it from my uncle -- i understand it from my uncle. this tremendous wound they suffered from having to be exiled -- from being exiled from cuba is still alive. people are feeding on it still. politicians are praying on that. looking forward, people born in the u.s. of cuban descent or whatever dissent have the

opportunity to learn how this country actually works. the republican party is not a fascist party and the democratic party is not a communist party. there are crazies on the far right and left. both parties have center-right and centerleft that mostly. everything else is asteria. unfortunately, this plays well on talk radio -- talk radio in miami in particular. caller: i think your guess is an awful shill. he is saying the whole voting situation has great integrity but the only people saying this is a board of voting machine manufacturers. i do not hear him talking about how in georgia they had this counting station in 2020 just

shut down because they supposedly had pipes that burst. host: we know what you are getting at. guest: i am no shill for anybody. i was clear that bill barr stated many times that when the department of justice under his leadership looked at voter fraud because donald trump wanted them to, they could not find the fraud. this is not a voting machine board. these are the conspiracies that unfortunately float around thanks to social media which is one of the big tragedies of modern life. this did not happen. unfortunately, gentlemen like this caller continued to be victimized by extreme media that is selling this lie as a mechanism to gain an audience. we talk about money and politics but money in the media does the

same thing. the distortion of objective reality for ratings is something that we are discovering in the fox dominion. it is not even subtle. it is part of the business. what does the audience wants? if we have to lie, we are going to lie to them. host: if dominion wins that lawsuit, your focus is on power dynamics, how does this change the dynamic of media in this town and country? guest: my sense is it will change nothing. people talk about fox news going out of business but this is fantasy talk. fox news is not going anywhere. it is a multibillion dollar company. it will pay whatever it takes. it will be a black eye and is humiliating, but they will continue to go. what is their business model? rupert murdoch said this in the best position -- in the

deposition, making money. they will maybe be more neat about where the line is and not cross it so easily. i am not saying they will continue to live at the economic incentives are to talk to the stove to men and make him feel he is right, yes, there is ron and questions and someplace in georgia -- there is fraud and questions and someplace in georgia where fraud happened. they found around 10 cases, 100 cases maybe, in the whole country. statistically zero. this is what you do not see on fox news at 8:00 a night. host: laurie, democrats. caller: i read a lot. i never got a college education but i read and search. i see the biggest thing. if you cannot get the man to

vote against his own self interest, get them to distrust their government and they will destroy it itself -- it themselves. i fear were -- a life where my kids will be in school like prison, take the books away. women will become second-class citizens. we have no legal protection whatsoever. i fear neighborhoods with extreme militia patrolling the street corners without limits. i am claiming -- and claiming protection under the second amendment. while the rest of developing nations are moving to where the future, donald trump is a tool that the american hierarchy has been searching for for a long time, that would get the masses to follow him. host: what is the american hierarchy? caller: it is a class of people that have basically taken control of america.

i think they are very wealthy. they think we cannot govern ourselves or people who are different from them should not be in both -- be involved in governing the masses. because their idea our views are different. since the new deal era, there has been a long term plan to turn americans against their own government. guest: i don't know. what makes this country, among many things, great is federalism. the fact that if you want to lift left of center plate, you can go to state where those ideas are the governing ideas. if you want to move right of center state, you can do that as well. there is manipulation on the part of wealthy nurse on the political system. we talked about this. wealthy interests in general

want certain things and have the resources to be able to pay for it through sponsorship of politicians, referendum and the rest. i caution against paranoia. that there is a cabal of people all coordinated, trying to control us. i do not mean this to be so -- but when you look at voting rights of americans, they are pulled adequately -- are pathetically low. even though we hit a record in 2018 and 2019, they are still relatively low compared to the number of voters. apathy seems to be one of the greatest risks to democracy, not this cabal. host: 61% voted in the last election. guest: by american standards, it is like a 100 year record. by european standards, it is a terrible election where they would question the results

because not enough voters participated. host: bob, logan, utah. democrats. caller: good morning. all i hear is our government is stupid. but if you think about it, this is a capitalist, socialist country. in my opinion. host: a capitalist, socialist country? guest: i am not sure how those two things combined exactly. i think since the new deal happened -- and what is the genesis of the new deal? the great depression. but really the genesis was, when franklin roosevelt was being inaugurated just across the plaza, there were armed mobs all around washington dc threatening

to come in. there were machine gun nest protecting the inauguration. why? the country had reached a massive crisis where there was massive poverty, hunger and suffering. fdr's genius was to save capitalism from itself. what we have now is a hybrid system. we have the freest capital system in the western world without a doubt that there is efficient level of social support in order to keep people from rebelling. since the french revolution, this has been a trend line for governments that survive. what we have now is a bit primitive. we have certain services for people but they are not comprehensive enough. you want women to go back into the workforce but we will not support them in childbearing. we have a real dramatic, antiabortion movement at the moment the baby is born, you're are on your own. we do not care anymore.

there are a loss of illogical things about our system that create -- a lot of illogical things about our system that create inefficiencies. it is complex. the competition brilliantly divides competition among power centers so it is hard to gain consensus. if you look at the trajectory from the crushing poverty of 1931 to 19 33, to what we have today, there has been progress. it is jagged. it goes up and down. we have so many children in poverty in this country that it is an international embarrassment. we never talk about that. we spend most of our time talking about elon musk and how billionaires spend their money as if that was relevant to the real social problems of the country. i feel like, it is easy to be completely negative but you have to look at the positive as well. host: time for one more call?

james, republican. caller: i would like to ask fernando about his last comment that there is an infinite symbol voter fraud. i would like him to contrast a voter harvesting with voting at the polls. voting at the polls is highly scrutinized. harvesting allows for a lots of influence. guest: again, these are the themes that played out in places like fox news that try to scare you. that's make you feel there is fraud. this has been studied so many times by so many institutions. independent institutions. bill barr's justice department was affirmatively looking for a mechanism to overturn the election. they could not find it. bill barr resigned from the department of justice among other reasons because he was being asked essentially to

create a fraud case that did not exist. this is a real challenge for our democracy. how does a gentleman, who i am sure is patriotic and loves this country, get the right information to understand what is happening? how does he achieve the knowledge he is being manipulated so he rejects objective reality? i do not have an answer but that is ultimately what has to happen. we have to get back to a shared set of beliefs about subjective things. two plus two equals four. everyone in -- everywhere in the universe. not five or three. host: are podcasts helpful to this or hurting? guest: i like to believe that they are helpful because there is more information and voices you never would have heard, and a great diversity of

information. but you can still get that information. i have listened to podcasts that i have been emily disagree with and i am disgusted about the lies and analysis -- i that have mentally disagree with and discuss about the lies and analysis. host: when you say you had to have a better diet and should watch not just channels you agree with. same in the podcasting world? guest: i think so. it is important to understand who the people are. are you listening to them because they are ideologically sure or objective analyst? all humans have a point of view. the issue is, is the point of view fed by real things, by fax, history? or is it simply my opinion and passion? a hit's other group. everything they do. it does not matter what they are

doing. that to me is flawed. host: the television world versus the podcast world, are people going there to be informed or entertained? guest: it is both. part of our own strategy is to be entertaining because nobody would listen and would be bored. both things can coexist. but ultimately, this also idiotic, objective reality is important. if we start with objective reality, then we can have a diversity of opinions of that reality. what you do about it, how you go about it, if it is a good idea or idea. but there is no voter fraud in this country. most of the voter fraud that has been discovered was donald trump voters voting twice. these are real cases. it is unfortunate we have so many politicians trafficking in lies in such a discussion -- such a disgusting fashion,

making the judgment confused as to what happened. one last quick thing. the voter fraud life is a way for one gentleman, in a particular donald trump, to explain why he lost. it is about his ego, weakness, and lack of character. unfortunately, there has been a whole industry of this information -- disinformation built around him. host: the podcast is "the x-ray with fernando espuelas" and you can find fernando espuelas on twitter at espuelasbox. coming up in 25 minutes, our second of podcasters that we will be talking about this morning. from the "war on the rocks", fernando espuelas. -- ryan evans.

until then, open forum. any public policy issue you want to talk about. it is short time to leave the conversation. phone lines are on your screen. go ahead and start calling in. ♪ announcer: book tv, every sunday on c-span two, features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 8:00 p.m. eastern, daniel authors the u.s. justice system -- argues the u.s. justice system have turned the poor and children into commodities. at 10:00 p.m., on afterwords, kelly pope shares her book on "full me once" which explores motivations for committing white-collar crime. she is interviewed by kathleen casey. watch book tv every sunday on

c-span 2 and find the full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. pres. biden: the very first president to attend the white house was calvin coolidge. i have just been elected to the u.s. senate. announcer: the white house correspondents dinner. washington's premier black tie event is saturday, april 29. watch c-span's live coverage from the washington hotel including covers of journalists, politicians and celebrities. this headliner is the daily show's roy road junior. lift, saturday, april 29 on c-span, c-span now our free mobile video app, or online at c-span.org. announcer: a healthy democracy does not just look like this.

it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work citizens are truly informed. republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. announcer: washington journal continues. host: 20 minutes for our open forum. any public policy issue or political issue you want to talk about. diane in ohio, democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i get most of my fax from washington journal, from news nation, and this is what i am saying.

number one, you had a speaker. i do not remember her name but i do take notes so i will not forget who the people are, who stated that drugs are coming from the border are from white americans. then on news nation, it stated that there was a cato group who found out only 0.2% of the drugs coming into this country from migrants. they are not bringing in the drugs. people who are lying continuously from congress because they want their party to look good and are only doing this to feed stupid information. host: richard out of columbia.

republican. caller: good morning. how are you doing? i tried to call before when you are talking about some of the gun laws. i live in michigan and our governor just signed three of them. red flags, safe storage, and universal background checks. i question is, how are these going to be source. universal background checks are on shotguns and rifles so we have to register them so they know who is breaking the law and is not. red flag laws, we are now perceived guilty until proven innocent and that is concerning. this can also lead into civil forfeiture. civil asset forfeiture of our firearms if they are taken from us. the safe storage laws is any gun owner should store their weapon as they deem safe within their house, on their property.

so who was going to check that? are they going to go door-to-door or make sure they are properly storing their firearm? who says what is proper for one person and is not for another? age limits. if people want to put age limits on a right, let's put them on all rights. this is the only right we have that we have to go through a background check system and pay to use that right. we have to pay for the background check. i do not ever remember getting a background check to go to church, to getting internet address, twitter account or whatever, or get an attorney. have questions on that. host: we are in caller: i am interested in a young lady who was the author of the book on samuel adams.

the thing that interests me about the first chapter there is she stated in the 1700s lawyers are crooks, liars. this is before our revolution. the same thing is in my belief now. who makes up our congress? how do you know they are lying? it is crazy that that group of people is considered the rollers. -- the rulers. host: are you talking about stacy schiff? caller: in the first chapter of her book. host: if you want to see a two hour program she was on book tv

program or take a deep dive with one author about all their books but her best-selling book about samuel adams the focus of a big part of that conversation. two weeks ago we had the conversation on c-span and book tv. it is on our website c-span.org and type stacy schiff at the top of the page. she has had other appearances on tv -- book tv. thank you for bringing it up. douglas in south dakota. democrat. good morning. caller: i like to talk about russia captured that guy and told the reporter and then before that it was brittany and then the marine over there. there's another guy, mark.

nobody ever talks about him. they're not not him as being illegally detained -- announced him as being illegally detained. i did not know how they forgot about him. you had a program about the reporter they did not mention anything about him. lincoln does not mention anything about him. he is from pennsylvania. they're not saying nothing. i had an old timer tell me the bill that squeezes that allow this is going to get the grease first. kc and fetterman to take that note and open it up a bit. host: in december politico set the other american jailed in russia on marijuana charges, mark vogel, had every parallels to brittney griner case.

political is where you can go for that deep dive. john in michigan. tell me the name of your city in michigan. caller: charlotte boyd. thank you. the carrier about the 2020 election no one talks about -- peculiar about the 2020 election no one talks about. i enjoyed the election and watch them closely. i have seen a number of them. 10:00 that night, tuesday night, i thought the truck was going to win because he was way ahead as wisconsin, michigan, georgia, and i think north carolina. for some reason, which i did not

understand, the counting stopped. i've never seen this before. i said something is going on. i do not proclaim the voting machines where the problem. they could be. i do not know. i found the dog -- i found it odd. host: if there was something going on, there was dozens of cases that trump campaign and others brought to show there was election fraud. dozens of cases thrown out from 63 cases thrown out or those who was claiming election fraud loss. why were they not able to prove it in court? caller: i do not know. that baffles me too.

maybe i'm wrong. i have never seen that before. i do not understand. he was ahead substantially. i said to my wife before the counting stopped, he is going to win and then the counting stopped and i watched it till midnight. not one more vote was counted in those days and he was up 13-17%. host: thomas in florida. good morning. what is on your mind? caller: go back to podcast and misinformation because it is personal to me. talk about the podcasts of the so-called -- you've seen people

like andrew tate in the news and red pill. misogynistic podcasts affecting young boys. host: man fear? caller: yes. it's not about misogyny. it is promoting healthy discussions. i would like to highlight a few examples of positives manosphere podcasts. there is an organization i am a part of. my own podcast blue orange 22. if young men want a positive example, i recommend those podcasts. host: george in tennessee. good morning. what is on your mind? caller: i want to speak on a comment that trump made on the

campaign trail the other day. he said, need to train and arm the educators, teachers. are they going to pay them policeman salary plus their salary? it has to be pretty stupid. tell me when educator that is going to go to school with it. that is the most stupid think i have heard in my whole life. host: i believe he was saying and here's a headline on it, promising tax credit for teachers who train to be armed, tax credit i believe he was saying the cost of the weapon and the training for those teachers. to incentivize them being armed in the classroom. caller: that is still pretty stupid. what educator would want to do

that? host: brad in minnesota. republican and. good morning. caller: good morning. interesting show you had today with the gentleman with the podcasts. just a bag of misinformation but i'm calling in about this new leaker. they are down on him. the psyche is snowden. a treason nest. -- it is like he is a snowden. treason. who gave joe biden to put boots on the ground in a war that the enemy would use nuclear arms? the only way we can put boots on the ground is to have congressional votes. host: boots on the ground, in

ukraine -- ? ? caller: the person from the leak. he is the one that broke it. he did not have any documents. he did not take anything like biden did. this guy had the knowledge of knowing boots on the ground. it is a fact. host: jennifer out of california. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to comment on the last episode on abortion. it is baffling how my uterus has more regulations than an assault rifle. on immigration, anyone who is

willing to walk 1000 miles for their families is a go-getter. that is a neighbor i would like to have. thank you. anyway, vote. host: 50 minutes love in our program and in that time on they podcasts spotlighted. ryan evans, host of the "war on the rocks" podcasts and we will talk about the discord leak and impact and a war in ukraine. stick around for that discussion. we will be right back. ♪ >> for two weeks in march 2023 former congressman david and mcdormand and peter daly went to poland and ukraine to meet with ukrainians who have fled their homes since the invasion in february 2002.

sunday night evidence of -- they join us to talk about their trip and share stories about the people and refugee organizations they visited along the way. >>'s mother knew they had to leave nikolai in bed in here russian troops torturing some of their neighbors -- they would lie in bed and could here russian troops torturing some of their neighbors. they said they are torturing our neighbors. they are coming for us. he later told me his home was firebombed, destroyed completely, he had it on his phone and he showed it to me. i asked what he wanted to do this life? he did not hesitate, the army. >> congressman buyer and father daily sunday night 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a.

♪ >> the tv every sunday on c-span two features leading authors discussing their books. 8 p.m. eastern law professor daniel hatcher argues u.s. justice system has turned portraiture into commodities in his book and justice incorporated. 10:00 p.m. on afterward, kelly pope shares her book which examines the rising cases of fraud in u.s. and explores the motivations for committing white-collar crime. she is interviewed by former commissioner kathleen casey. weissberg -- watchable watchar

at c-span.org. >> i have just been elected to the united states senate. >> white house correspondent dinner. the black-tie event saturday, april 29. varsity spent live coverage including red carpet arrivals of journalists, politicians and president biden is expected to speak. white house correspondents dinner life april 29 on c-span, or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> c-span shop.org is c-span's online store of c-span products, apparel a core and accessories.

there is something for every c-span fan and help supports our nonprofit operations. cap now or anytime at c-span shop.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by ryan evans host of the "war on the rocks" podcasts. welcome. for folks who have not found "war on the rocks," what is it and the mission? guest: it carries a this year. i started it to re-center experience voices, served in government, the military, worked on issues of strategy and foreign affairs and bring those conversations to a large audience. host: what have your downloads been like since the war in ukraine began? guest: more interest for all

very tragic reasons. host: why has it become the go to broadcast understand the conflict? guest: a big part of it is one of our regular guests reporters on the war in ukraine. host: who is michael kaufman? guest: an analyst. a russian military affairs expert and an old friend of mine. the war broke out and he had been writing for us for years. it was a few days into the war and i went over to hang out with mike near his home at a bar and were having this conversation. i had my gear with me. i said let's put this on tape and talk about what is happening. it just sort of exploded in terms of listenership because most people have not seen global catastrophe with global implications at this level before.

host: how do you do this with michael kaufman, understanding the influence of a war? you're working now on a visual medium. if you're doing it on a podcast. guest: sometimes i have google maps out on my phone. i've been to ukraine once i do not know geography. mike knows it. he was born in kyiv, ukraine. i have about some up in my head at this point. our listeners follow along looking at the maps outlets put out. host: you move around the map. you talk about this part of the battlefield in this part. is it a system you developed with mike coffman? guest: people are surprised by this event when i do podcasts with senior folks. i do not plan out the episodes ahead of time. i think it is important to make

it an actual conversation and listeners can tell the difference when it is spontaneous. it is informed by knowledge and experience. i wanted to be a real conversation. host: what if you talk about in latest episode on "war on the rocks"? guest: there has been a lot of debate if it was the right place to stand his ground and how the battle is going in all this comes down to an issue return to time and time again, manpower and material. it is a war between larger countries. it comes down to who can stay in the fight the longest. that has a lot to do with ammunition and weaponry and delivering mass human beings on the battlefield. talk about russia and ukraine to applies manpower and get equipment in the field. host: he brought the idea of

ukraine being a war of survival and a war of victory. when did it turn from survival to one for ukraine to change their strategy for victory? guest: in the spring probably. once russia bungled the initial assault. the tide started to turn and became more ukraine cannot just survive but may be able to win around the spring of last year. host: why did you, and i and everyone know there's a ukraine offensive coming up? isn't that something you want to keep secret? guest: you want to keep detail secrets. which is why some of the recent leaks are bad for ukraine. russia expected offensive to come. this is how wars tend to work.

one side launches an assault. that assaults culminates. the other side counters if they're able to. host: as the russian assault culminated? guest: it is fair to say it has. this offensive which is concentrated in eastern ukraine was poorly coordinated. it was like the invasion with no clear main effort. it sputtered out. it is fair to say rude to seek ukraine -- we are going to see ukraine go on the offensive. host: "war on the rocks" is the name of the podcast and rain evan is the host of the podcast. guest: and we have an app. host: plenty of ways to get

it. if you want to get this conversation, phone lines are open. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. the discordant leak, or what has been the most significant one as it relates to the war in ukraine? guest: there's so much and only some of it has come to light. i'm not looking at the documents themselves because of security clearance. you're still not supposed to access information. from what i've read, how the pentagon and the white house assessed ukraine's prospects for success. that demoralizes ukraine a little bit where morale is critical. it is an underrated factor that

most did not consider. i thought ukraine is going to fall early in this war and i'm glad they did not. host: the pessimistic assessment back in the beginning of the war, should we have been surprised there was pessimistic assessment still and couldn't ukraine still surprise people who make those assessments again? guest: ukraine has a few surprises left. i'm ascending by nature -- i am a cynic by nature. sometimes i come with pessimism. host: washington post had a story about the russian special forces. who are they and what do we find out the echo guest: the equivalent of our special operation forces. it confirmed what we were sure we knew. early in the war and throughout

the rest of it, these elite forces have been decimated by casualty. you're supposed to use special operation forces in particular ways they were used as normal infantry. have not recovered from that. host: at this point in the war, what is the best asset on both sides for russians and ukrainians? guest: ukraine's best advantage is it is being backed by the west with armed intelligence, material. ukraine understands that western, american support, is critical for them. for russia, it is hard to say. it's not easy to overthrow putin. russia can sustain a lot of pain without putin and his regime suffering. that is what he's optimizing

for. history james survival and loyalty -- his regime survival and loyalty first. host: gary in ohio, republican. good morning. caller: my question, with people in ukraine only having defensive weapons and russia can't win this war may far, shooting hypersonic missiles across the border. i do not understand how they can win. guest: i would not describe what ukraine has asked just defensive weaponry. ukraine is running offensive war in the battlefield. you are right russia launched a lot of missiles. it fires is from the ground and

the air. one of the reasons this war -- on the ground another side is been able to achieve superiority. they have been able to deny it to each other. it speaks of the importance of what happens in the skies. even the russia environment shows, their targeting -- even though russia can fire at the missiles, their targeting is poor. they cannot sustain the production of missiles for what they need them. host: the providing -- does providing western fighters give ukraine air superiority? guest: probably not but i am not a expert. host: what is the definition of victory? what is declining definition right now the same as u.s. and western allies definition of victory?

guest: first tier of victory for ukraine is survival of this government, democracy is step one and it is happened. step two is retaken as much territory. host: ukrainian territory? guest: yes. not just the re-invasion but since 2014 and that includes parts of a steering -- parts of eastern ukraine and crimea. there is a debate of if ukraine should retake hermia and if it's capable. people disagree but ultimately victory is retaking all the territory and pushing russia back into russia. host: as a weapon system that has not been provided that would make a difference, if fighters do not supply air support what would make the difference? guest: there is no single weapon system that is a difference

maker. these are used in concert with each other. people get excited about this one is going to do. there was a debate of whether ukraine should receive tanks and what sort. the most important thing we give ukraine forces is armored fighting vehicles so they can get energy closer to the front and deploy them from their. much more important. i would not say there's any single weapon. for high mars different makers? guest: they allowed them to destroy russian supply lines, emission depots. they are super important. whenever going to say high mars meet the difference but they have made a difference. host: the morning, your own.

caller: how much to know why -- i want to know why y'all cannot tell the truth about this mess. victoria nuland overthrew ukraine and the said how much money we spent to do it and then they put it in their and they scaled the russian people in ukraine and then killing around 14,000 and and they yell turnaround and leave that out. host: you bring up a couple issues going gears back. guest: it is pretty conspiratorial of what actually happened. there was a protest movement that overthrew the president of ukraine who fled to russia. this was about where ukraine is

going to be aligned weather with both west and russia or one of the other. there was a trade agreement with eu. united states did not install a puppet regime. it was not an illegal coup. you're right the history started much earlier than last year. host: from twitter, will ukraine be accepted into nato in the summer? guest: no, not the summer. whether it will at all is an open question. i was speaking last year on the podcast and asked him the same question and he said it is not currently. i do not expect that to happen. host: carol in maryland,

democrat. caller: good morning. i know that i ran was supply russia with the drones. united states was in the iran deal. donald trump away with the united states version of the iran deal. do you think by united states getting out of the iran deal, was the reason why he ran supplied russia drones and other weapons? do you think iran is still mad for withdrawing deal? guest: great question. it is hard to know what would've happened. it is not meant to address he ran -- iran destabilizing behavior in the region. iran has supplied russia with

the weapon still even then. iran is a multilateral deal involving our other european partners in russia. it is hard to say. they're going to be prone to new things we did not like even if the deal stayed. host: james mccormick in today's wall street journal, the headline military human crisis is a symptom of cultural cancer manifest itself in many ways but no system is more telling than are low military recruitment. last year 25% of its recruiting target. this year looks to be worse. there is our ability to defend ourselves in a dangerous world -- it threatens our ability to defend ourselves in a dangerous world. what is a say about america? guest: unemployment is low.

they were on our podcast. he is planning to issues that are accurate. he is pointing to four issues. more to a lot of dog people have and the -- exceptionalism of the united states. the biggest cause is military recruitment suffers when there is a little employment. cultural wars have a significant. it informs people's choices, young people's choices of whether they want to join the military. one side is saying everyone is a white supremacist and the other is everyone is welcome. the reality is neither is true. people look at the military, and might inform their decisions.

another survey it done about what people are concerned and the biggest reason according to the survey was bodily harm. it is a normal fair to have. it is one of the many reasons people are not joining. host: david mccormick was on book afterward program, our author interview program aired earlier this month and available on our website. what your background is? you mentioned you had a top-secret client sent. guest: just secret. i worked for the army as a civil servant. i worked with other small team of professionals to talk to afghans and learn about social issues, political issues at the local level affecting what we were trying to do. this was 2010 and 2011.

host: why did we lose the war in afghanistan? guest: we choose -- we were trying to create a functional democracy in a place that is never known anything like that and impose a system that was never going to -- a highly centralized system. we did not devolve power throughout afghanistan in regions. i how i see dry ice -- a highly centralized democracy that was never going to work. the image everyone i worked with -- i wrote we should leave. it is not just predictable but predicted by many people. host: frank in georgia. republican. caller:. good morning. i was going to say something about the drawdown.

i'm a veteran. i did 20 years in the army. i know what the voluntary army is all about. i joined in 1984 when reagan was president. we had an army. we had a military. we had people who would say colonel, that is not right. then transitioned to a volunteer military. it is nothing but a political, police force. we need to breathe the draft back. getting away with the draft was the biggest mistake this country made. host: let's focus on that. guest: thank you for serving. i appreciate that. i do not think bringing the draft back is an solution. small percentage of americans serve in the military, military

and society lose touch with each other. it is been a slope bowling problem ever since the volunteer force was instituted after the draft ended. you point to a real problem. host: is it getting worse or are we getting better at recognizing those things were diverging and we need to do better in connecting them? guest: where doing better. people are realizing just be in touch with military when you see military professional sporting event is not enough and it is not be in touch with military. but the military is doing better and society is doing better in expressing interest. host: our cultural media as well? guest: i would not give you a

judgment on that. it is a mixed picture. you see my curiosity -- you see more curiosity. the trial -- withdrawal in afghanistan how to reconnect people to the service of those who lost their lives, friends to this war. i see healthier interest in our military force than i have in years. host: christina in iowa. good morning. caller: good morning. you're talking about not too many people coming in. kids got to believe in their country. we have divided people in many ways as we can. for over here in ukraine while we cannot keep our own water shut.

i cannot look at my children and tell them is going to be ok. that is a problem. i hear you talk about helping these other people and doing this and that. our country is falling apart. host: thank you for the call. guest: i do not agree with the assessment but you point to a real problem. dave and james read about this eloquently in their book superpower. talk about how americans for the first time in a while do not think their children are going to be in a better place than they are and there is a lot of pessimism and disappointment in the direction our country is heading in in all size of the political spectrum. it is something only our political leaders can address as setting a better standard and message for the way it is run in washington. host: did you ever worked for

political leaders? guest: no. i'm an independent. neither side trust me. host: what are you see as your career path? guest: some consulting. more analysis. i like my job. it is a large media company. we offer social learning network , and mashed up of linkedin and netflix, you have courses, working simulations and scenarios to allow people to cross the private sector divide and learn throughout their careers. it is not just for the government, military, defense industry. for anyone with global interest. i enjoy working on that. host: for the "war on the rocks"

podcasts are we talking tens of thousands of downloads? guest: it depends on the episode. we get about 100,000 per episode. host: do you make money off of the podcast? guest: we did not make money directly. we make money through memberships, we have membership programs, $7.50 a month. and a series of newsletters we are expanding as well. host: people can access that on the website. guest: wa rontherocks.com/membership host: phone lines. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. william in tennessee. good morning. caller: my concern is the woman

and children there. as a veteran and i have seen things. i cannot imagine what the woman and children go there. it breaks my heart. thank you very much. guest: it is heartbreaking. the biggest victims and being women and children. there's a lot that neighboring countries, poland the baltic countries are doing to support people who have fled the war/ might be able to do more to give people opportunities for better fighting the war. it is why war is a catastrophe and should be avoided at all

costs. host: i wonder what your experience in afghanistan. were we doing enough to help women and children there? what did you see in on the ground? guest: it was different depending on what part of the country they were in. in the capital, women have more opportunity. they could live a more western lifestyle. woman in the provinces still lived constrained. girls are given the chance to go to school but did not translate into professional opportunities beyond childhood age. women were heavily repressed by men who are there. there is this narrative everything form and fell apart when we left. it is true for a small parts of the country. afghanistan is a primarily rural

country and the pipe woman was improved but not transformed -- the plight of women was improved but not transformed. host: good morning, you are on. caller: i've been watching the work closely. -- the war closely. i think the drones are brought a new perspective to the war. i notice now that people pick up previous footage they get from the internet and it is repopulated. i will add you to my podcast list. if you had to look at one new source that was updated frequently to keep tabs on the war, what one would it be? host: you watched the war through youtube, what does that mean? caller: different channels.

a lot of it is repopulated now. it is hard to find fresh content. it is not like they are talking about everything on the evening news. guest: i will answer a different question than get to your question. what has been fascinating about the war is we are learning about what is happening to this community of open-source researchers who are active on social media. many of them offer amazing view of what is happening and if he tweeted me, i can respond with some of the people i follow in the community. it also does give you a limited picture of the war. you see things shot on camera and released.

ukrainian side wants to release to make its position look favorable. it is a limited view of what is happening, especially the part of drones. drones get a lot of attention in this world. drones are playing a critical role but not as critical as ability munition -- artillery munition. having said that, i admire the drillers at the new york times, thomas. host: a tweet, footage of fighters at railroad tracks, a drawing of ukrainian 93rd brigade monitoring movements of ladner mercenaries in the area.

who is robert e. lee? guest: he is and analysts on the russian military print is a friend -- and he is a friend. ron -- we are able to -- they do battle field research which is critical. host: in figure out what is real and what is on ? guest: i talked to researchers i trust. i rely on experts i trust. host: what about scrolling through twitter or youtube? what is the best way to figure out, this is reality or it is not or ion beam and he? guest: youtube makes it difficult.

twitter is the best place to follow up. you can reroute which are a voices and which are not. caller: good morning. i recall done said when he was leaving afghanistan he would do it in the spring because trucks and tanks would be bogged down which gave the airport in kabul access so he could bring home on a continuous basis the americans and interpreters that had to leave. then biden decided to do it in august. trump is going to leave the soldiers. as a necessary means to keep people coming in. biden decided to do it in august.

you have a comment on that? guest: the fires in afghanistan -- the failure in afghanistan is owned by multiple administrations. trump tried to do with larger drawdowns before. i think leaving afghanistan was the right decision. the way we left was a catastrophe and embarrassing. it was always going to be bad but did not need to be this bad. this administration tends to put blame on trump. there is blame in terms of the deal negotiated with taliban and how it was done. let's just say there's a lot of blame to go around. how the withdrawal was conducted does fall on the bite in the administration. host: did you read the report they can mount on the withdrawal on friday? guest: i did. i am glad there is a commission

researching investigating the entire war itself. that document white house release was a particle document and did not teach us anything we did not already know -- partisan document and did not teach us anything we did not already know. host: raymond, new hampshire. this is ted. caller: i have three quick questions. when we leave a country like afghanistan we leave so much equipment behind that could have been used by the ukrainians and my second question, this british that got blown up by truck -- the bridge that got blown up by

a stroke why is it not a prime target to keep supplies from coming in? does ukraine have likely do navy seals, special forces that can go behind the lines sciacca -- behind the lines? guest: the equipment left in afghanistan, there was equipment given to afghan security forces who left and were defeated. the plan was the government was going to last longer than it did and security forces will stay fighting against the taliban. people understood the act of did not have the cases but i was among those that thought their last longer than they did. that equipment is not meant to leave afghanistan if in the best scenario. can i have been given to ukrainians -- it could not have been given to ukrainians. host: a picture of liberation

that occurred in november of last year -- the bridge that occurred in november of last year. guest: it was an impressive attack by ukraine. they try to do other attacks like that. for russia it was a wake-up call for them of defending their line. this probably more security on it now. hopefully we can expect more tax in the future -- attacks in the future. in ukrainian special forces, there are. they do do attacks. they're probably responsible for that. i would imagine they are responsible for those as well and they manage resistance operations in occupied parts of kyiv. host: are there active business

going on? guest: yes. host: must effective or impactful? guest: you find when ukraine, donbass, for example you see the military is trying to retake an area or city, you have the resistant networks coordinated with ukrainian forces who enable the operation. feeding them intelligence, maybe conducting attacks or assassinations of russian installed officials. these are the sort of things forces are doing. host: there is a army group formed these governments set up by russia? guest: russia and ukraine the first time in 2014, and a thought these quasi-states quas-

when russia invaded ukraine the first time in 2014 it is thought these quasi-states. host: has it been effective? guest: they are not the most effective. abbeys and cannon fodder and it creates tension between them and the formal sources. it is not an area i follow closely. they are mostly used again in the areas they are from. host: wagner mercenary group, stories about them. for folks that do not know much about it ladner how effective have they been? guest: they been used in different ways. they play the biggest roles. you have different spaces of lochner. some are used as cannon fodder in other ways to talk about this in the podcasts. host: creative ways?

guest: looking for vulnerabilities. they operate differently. they operate differently then formal russian's securities. host: we can do a podcast here. in tennessee, republican. caller: my granddaughter is involved of getting one of the families out. they have yet to be able to get him to join. i think the worst harm biden has done is nobody trust the government anymore. he came out with reported that he was proud of. we know he ended everything president trump planned, every project he had a going. the first month he was in office. it is unbelievable he thinks he can blame president trump. people hanging onto planes.

so just testify they had sites on the bomber -- soldiers have testified they had at their sites on the bomber. they waited for the word ndc and it never came. the worst thing he has done, we do not believe this government. he came out with the labor reporter nobody believes. shortly after the labor secretary resigned. host: i wonder about your assessment of u.s. allies trust in america after watching how united states has responded in ukraine? guest: the way people and our allies trust the administration did take a glow with the afghan withdrawal. european allies were disturbed by what they were saying. they help us out the best they could.

the british did amazing work getting people out on the ground. the weather ukrainian war has imploded has reintroduced more trust in american leadership on security matters. it is not to say they're not hard conversations behind closed doors with the less is more united now -- but the west is more united now. host: allies bring different assets to this effort. besides u.s., who is the most important country to ukraine? guest: it depends on what metric. in arms and training, british play an important role. germany has not been doing enough. host: why germany? guest: fix economy in europe --

the biggest economy in europe. had a close relationship with russia before the invasion happened. it can move the needle on important things. germany invest in meeting the gdb spending on defense, -- gdp spending on defense it means a lot for germany. if germany decided to deliver on the promises the chancellor gave early in the war about defense spending and mobilizing ukraine will be in a better place. germany has done a lot but not enough. host: pollen sitting on the border. guest: poland has been amazing ally of ukraine. it equipment and material to ukraine. they are trying to buy more high morris, they are buying south korea.

they are going to be a huge military powerhouse in the not-too-distant future. host: lou, new york. democratic. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. thank you, ryan. it is been an interesting program. i want to ask your thoughts about something one early caller alluded to, the effect of voluntary military on social discourse in this country. i think it is often tainted as antimilitary but my view is all volunteer force is really deleterious vigorous political debate because you have a huge secular population who do not have any skin in the game when the decisions are made about national policy, going to war, putting people's lives at risk.

it is been a detriment to the all volunteer army. there is advantages in training and the caliber of volunteers you get compared to the draft by the draft training and the caliber of volunteers you fulfills a very important role in social discourse. i wonder what your thoughts are about that. guest: it is a great question. you hit the nail on the head when you said the draft is a necessary the most capable military at the end of the day. you make the argument which is true then we have a draft to provide social leveling and had people get skin in the game. the draft was corrupted. people work means were able to get out of it. -- people with means were able to get out of bed. i did not think they dropped is the solution. -- i did not think the drop is the solution. i will like to see our political

leaders on both sides not politicize the military institution. it is a detriment to our entire society and the military. i wish people would stop doing it for political points. it is also about franchising the country. i will pick on george w. bush. not long after 9/11 he was asked what the american people should do and he said go to the mall. who is trying to keep the economy going but when some of the most major decisions on war and peace in generations were being made, it was the wrong answer. it is the wrong way to include the american people about national security. there are ways to franchise the american people with decisions that do not involve the draft. host: ryan evans as the house of the "war on the rocks" podcasts

on twitter @evan ryan. and you can find them online. we appreciate the time. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. in the meantime, have a great saturday. ♪