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. -- guest: i used to come here every year at christmas. i am grateful to be back. host: let's start with what you do. you are a republican strategist. guest: i don't think they think of me as a republican. i am trying to seek common ground. it is part of what i write about, it is part of. what i talk abouti -- it is part of what i talk about. i am still a pollster, but i try to do it in a nicer way. i am curious when we get to the phones. when i was last year about five years ago on christmas day, i was shocked at how angry people were. merry christmas, hope you have a wonderful holiday, and they were yelling at me! the right wing was yelling at me

for not being right-wing enough, the left-wing was yelling at me for not being left-wing, and the people in the center were mad at everybody. i hope the people calling in this tuesday morning will remember there are children watching. my ideal right now, and i don't have any photographs, is -- my mission is teaching. i m teaching at west point now. i teach at the african leadership university in rwanda. these students, i love them because most of them are open-minded. most of them are seeking to learn from people with other perspectives, and most of them embrace the truth. that is what we have to be looking for right now in this country, the truth, not the donald trump truth, but the

actual truth. host: if you would like to join the conversation and ask a question, you can call us on our lines by put goal affiliation. republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . speaking of donald trump, he wrote an opinion in the new york times. what is it about? guest: it is about a strategy that recognizes his successes as president but that also acknowledges that his demeanor is not what we need right now in this country. it is a primer for those who believe in free markets, for those who seek more freedom in their lives to engage in politics but without the nastiness and the viciousness. we should be trying to figure

out what we call our opponents, the name-calling, which is reserved for junior high school students on the playground. we should have presidents who are role models for our kids and our grandchildren. it is a discussion of where we are as a political party, where we are headed as a nation, and what the republicans can do to get back into the game without rowing themselves to a level of incivility that would embarrass them, their neighbors and their children. host: all the polls are showing former president trump way ahead of his next closest rival, which is governor desantis. even he has not announced either way if he is running. everybody is assuming he is going to run. he is acting like he is. what are your thoughts?

guest: i don't know why governor desantis has chosen to make disney an enemy. mickey mouse, donald duck, this is a wonderful company. when i go to the parks, there is just such joy -- at least in the morning, maybe not in the afternoon! host: it is the happiest place on earth. guest: it is. his rising -- he is trying to use disney. florida is a success story, so i are you demonizing a company? i always thought that republicans were pro-business and democrats were prolabor. that is what i thought. why is governor desantis demonizing a company that employs more people than any other in the state of florida? to score political points off of them.

when they actually succeed at something, he tries to take it away. once again, it is turned upside down. for the democrats, we have a debt crisis in this country right now. it is not a problem, it is a crisis. joe biden will not even negotiate with the speaker of the house. he is trying to force the speaker into politically untenable positions. they should be working together side-by-side to address this, and instead they are seeking to score political points. both sides are doing it. both sides are responsible and you have to cut it out because our economy is at stake. we know the challenges china poses to us right now. we argue over pronouns as they eat our lunch with the economy! we tried to score political

points as they jeopardize the safety and security, not just of taiwan, but of cambodia, korea, japan. we have to stop playing games, and we have to start appreciating the benefits that this country offers. this was not me 10 years ago! host: what changed, frank? guest: i got sick, had a stroke. i am having issues once again, so i am really focused on every minute of every hour of every day. you can hear it in my voice. i realize that democracy is not just a given. host: when did you realize that? guest: in 2016 during the election when i watched people who had been decent to each other into civil to each other start to explode on each other and accuse each other. we are not enemies. we can disagree, but we are not enemies.

we are not sworn to destroy the other side. i don't understand the reasoning that the only way i can win is if you lose. we are losing this sense of cooperation and empathy. i had the opportunity to sit with the leader of jordan, and i was telling him of the challenges i had, and he said to me "you have to be able to walk in the shoes of others. once you have empathy, you understand the perspective of others, you can find common ground." instead of seeking that empathy, we seek division. instead of seeking common ground, we seek to draw the sharpest lines. there is something more important than the 2024 election, and that is the future of this country, the future of your family. the voice you hear right now has been problematic for weeks. i have been told that this may be an ongoing problem, so while

i have the ability to speak. i am going to speak up and say no. i know your colors are going to call in and yell at me -- caller s are going to call in and yell at me for something. i was wrong on climate. i was wrong on partisanship. now i am committed to getting it right. host: let's talk to some of those callers. first is jerry. everything is fine. caller: my comments on your subject matter today, words of wisdom -- did you know that corporations do not pay taxes? we have heard that over and over again. only people pay taxes! if you apply a little common sense to this, which seems to be

lacking in this day and age, if i was a business today, and i have so much operating money, so many prophets that continued to pile back into my business, and along comes the government and says, "you will pay taxes, despite all of the other breaks we give so you can grow," it is a way of deferring. but if you will tax me more money, -- the only option i have is to raise my prices. the long end the short of it is -- and the short of it is corporations don't pay taxes. paid -- we pay taxes. the guy who called in saying he

-- we know he pays more in taxes than that. guest: can i give you the statement that will help you communicate this? you wake up in the morning, you drink your first cup of coffee, you pay your first sales tax. at work you pay an income tax. you turn on the light you pay and electricity tax. you travel somewhere, you pay an airplane tax. turn on your tv, you pay a cable tax. your tax from the morning you wake up to the minute you go tonight. card paying tax pay -- hard-working taxpayers deserve a break. do not forget, i can see it right here what funds -- what funds the schools your

grandchildren go to? taxes. we have to find a reasonable approach that allows us to spend the money we need with efficiency, effectiveness and accountability. we need to pay taxes but we have the right and responsibility to demand that the government does not waste a time because in the end it is not their money. it is our money. host: tony is in melville, new york. guest: i know your town! caller: definitely! a lot of barton 500 companies. it is the most expensive -- fortune 500 companies. it is the most expensive place to live in manhattan. unfortunately, i disagree, but

there are irresolvable class antagonisms. we should not be finding common ground with fascism. i think that when we talk about finding common ground that should come in the form of class consciousness. bourgeois democracy does not work. our politicians have the lowest approval rates globally. places like cuba have larger voter turnout and greater satisfaction with their -- guest: you call yourself an independent, which leads to a story published yesterday. form 29% of americans call themselves independent. you called -- 49% of americans call themselves independent. you called in on the independent line.

your opinion is that these countries have -- part of this pursuit of the truth is to hold both sides accountable. i have been to cuba. i talked to the people. i went around and did interviews day in and day out. they are not happy. they're hungry. . they are desperate. i don't know about this cuba thing and the u.s. being a purveyor of more violence than any other country? are you not looking at what is happening in ukraine and russia? we have every right to be angry when conditions have been the way they are, but we have the responsibility to tell the truth, the whole truth, and in the end nothing but the truth. that is why i knowledge the mistakes i have made in the past, and why i ask of you all

do find the good rather than the bad. to find agreement where you can and class consciousnesses? you sound like you are a professor at berkeley. we can do better than that. host: i wanted to show that article that you referenced. there was a poll. this is ask eos. here is the chart -- this is axios. here is the chart. what do you not think that is accurate? guest: that call right there. host: you think people are calling themselves independent because it sounds better? guest: we found this with swing voters. people will say as i am recruiting them "i haven't decided who i am voting for." really? "yes.

i know i am voting for her -- i know i am not voting for hillary, but i haven't decided if i am voting for trump." i would ask that gentlemen, when was the last time you voted for a republican if you are truly independent? you know what the answer is going to be? never. he rejects the partisan labels. if i recruited that 49%, journalists would be really angry and feel that my results were not accurate. they -- host: let'shost: talk to another independent caller in massachusetts. this is george. caller: good morning. love the show. thanks for coming forward and talking the truth. guest: -- i wish i had money under the kennedy name to run. i totally think the two-party

system is broken. do i think a third-party candidate can win? do think this would really help? term limits, independent redistricting state commissiond, overturning citizens united, and bringing back the telecommunication bill of 1997? i would love to talk to you for hours, but keep up the good work. guest: it is a hard question. he gave me three things and i can remember 4 of them but you got to the point, you made your point, and i appreciate that. whoever taught you, did an excellent job. i have gone back and forth on it. when iu was -- term limits, i have gone back and forth on it. having spent time in d.c., that expertise matters and the people who understand how this place works and know how to get things

done, there is a value to that, and that does not come in your first or second term. i'm not sure about term limits. in terms of money in politics, there is way too much. i did not understand this until i watched and saw how much time nancy pelosi spent fundraising, how much time kevin mccarthy spent fundraising. i won them focused on policies and their constituents. i don't want them focused on bringing campaign dollars. we are awash in political spending. i think that contributes to just how hostile we are towards each other so i think we need to approach that. we have to hear both sides. let me rephrase that. we have to hear all sides. as far as an independent candidacy, for the first time it is donald trump versus president joe biden, and an independent

candidate has a chance of breaking the threshold. they have never been as viable as they are now. the key to an independent candidacy is not the rejection of the two political parties, but the embracing of unity, of working together side-by-side, make a meaningful, measurable impact on hard-working taxpayers. one more thing, it is one of the reasons i am watching, and in many ways i support no labels, and the problem solvers caucus in congress. one democrat, one republican. i'm not sure you can find that in the photos you have right now, but there is a photograph of patrick and joshua, who are heroes to me. they spend their time cooperating, and they came to spokes to my student one of

the many political people devoted to teaching the next generation about their capabilities. the two of them came in. no labels is so vital right now. the problem solvers caucus should be elevated because of the work they are trying to do on the important issues of the day to find that compromise, to make things happen, but still with efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability. host: no labels was on this program. if you would like to watch that, you can search for it on c-span.org. susan is next in north dakota, democrat. caller: good morning, and thank you so much for my call. mr. frank, i had to call in when you spoke. i have to start out by saying i had a pastor who because of losing his voice was no longer able to be our pastor, and sometimes i feel that a voices

taken when it should be the most heard. please, keep talking. i am listening to all of this. i i'm getting more upset. i understand taxes and all of these things. all of it is really important, but i feel like there is nothing more important than trump and what has happened in this country. the division in this country! obviously, he did not create these people, but he has got the sense that white supremacy, hatefulness, calling names, dirty deeds, he has done everything from raping and abusing women, to treason to our own country. that is the most heartbreaking day of our country was seeing our capital hacked by people we hate. this is the biggest issue. this guy is the most popular,

and yet he is being indicted on all these different charges. this percentage of our country thinks he is wonderful. this is what is tearing our country apart. we can take all of the money out of this. politicians should not be even paid. shame on them for not doing their work and collecting money from us, when they are collecting millions from others influencing their decisions. guest: you will be surprised, i agree with much of what she just said. i am apoplectic about the condition of our democracy right now, the percentage of people who think that the other side is evil, that demonize people at the drop of a hat. i i'm just afraid as you are, and the discourse is embarrassing. there is a wonderful video that i hope you can show c-span viewers at some point. it is called the election of

1800, and they are using the exact words of john adams and thomas jefferson, and it is hysterical because adams said the worst things, much worse than was said right now. adams and jefferson were great friends. they prepared the constitution together. they were great friends at the bookends. they died the same day. host: we heard about the discord that used to go on in congress. used to come to blows, but there was no social media. maybe it was different. the average american did not know about what was going on. guest: ai if we are not careful we'll take a bad situation and make it even worse. then we won't be able to tell the truth. these deepfakes -- i've seen the videos. you have joe biden saying all of

this stuff you cannot say on television. they found a way to grab his voice. they did an ai on me and i sound like a lunatic. i sound even worse than i do right now! it is frightening. in the end if you cannot differentiate the truth -- i teach my students sit at tables with people who do not look like you. have conversations with people who do not think like you. surround yourself with people who are smarter than you, and you will get wise. surround yourself with people who are more creative then you, and you will get smarter. do not look for people who are like you. you are missing the world out there. that is also part of my mission, to bring the people of alabama, and mississippi, and south carolina, and expose them to people of new hampshire, and

massachusetts, and maine. i i'm not just doing it locally. i want to do it globally. the african leadership university is the most incredible collection of students on the entire continent. 41 countries attend that university, and these young people have nothing, and they are grateful for everything. there are so many americans who have everything and are grateful for nothing. i have got to admit -- i'm going to sound pathetic here -- but i was in tears. they were hungry, that they continue to study. they are focused on their future, even when they have such limited resources. i refuse to use the acronym, because i want people to hear it, the african leadership university deserves our support and appreciation, because they are not asking for aid. they are simply asking to be heard. the students are wonderful, and

they are raising each other up. here is another example -- i used to make fun of hillary clinton first saying that it takes a village to raise a child. it does! sometimes it takes a continent to raise a child. those students are the best. i know you have got people who watch this program who offer internships or run companies. help them! don't just say "i want people to help, or i don't want to pay taxes, or that's another continent that is so far away from us." they are human beings, and they work hard, and play by the rules. they have governments that are so corrupt, that take their companies and their money away from them to fund their petty civil wars. they young people there and our young people here deserve our support.

host: speaking of politics, i wanted to ask you because susan brought up donald trump's legal woes, the indictment. what are you thinking in that sense as far as impact to the election? guest: guess what? host: what? guest: he is more popular today. he has not only gotten his people to talk about him being a victim -- he is the best victim politician i have ever seen -- but they believe he is being persecuted, and that is why they have solidified around him. it won't last but his numbers could even go up as other states continue to focus on the things he has done. this is important. when they did the raid at mar-a-lago, his numbers went up. the justice department took five days to explain why they went in there. that gave trump five days to set the agenda. this indictment was released on a thursday but it was sealed

until the following tuesday. stop doing this. if you are going to take on an ex-president, which is ramifications that are really serious, you also have the responsibility to explain why you were doing this. the rules say that you have to wait. he is a different individual. he has every right to defend himself, and they have every right to explain what they are doing. both are. correct in this process trump winsif -- both are correct in this process. if trump wins the nomination, you will have won -- he will have won. those seeking to hold donald trump accountable are helping him. host: robert is in kroll springs, florida. caller: i hope you were feeling

better. i enjoy your focus groups for decades. i cannot figure out how democratic voters consistently vote for the democratic party, which is against school choice. i i'm surprised they do not hold their feet to the fire more often. they are voting against their children'education and the abilitys to learn more and be better citizens -- their children's education and the ability to learn more and be better citizens. i wonder why you think they don't ask for more choice. a second explosive issue states are facing right now, i'm surprised more suburbanites are not objecting more to male participation in women's and girls sports. it it's so unfair.

it is such a sea change that is trying to happen in our country. maybe you can address it. hope you feel better. guest: i feel fine. i just want to sound better. it is parental choice, not school choice. school choice is about choosing a building. parental choice is about bringing parents back into the education lives of their children. the greatest frustration with education happened two years ago when every child was at home. the parents were at home. the kids were sitting there. the kids were on their computers, and they are listening to what they are being taught or not being taught. the level of anger and frustration of parents as they came to realize their kids are learning next to nothing, and it was not just because it was online. they did not like the curriculum. they do not like the way it was being taught. their own kids were not paying attention.

people were allowed to turn off their cameras, so they were not even in class. they were doing things on their phones. we lost a year's worth of knowledge, perhaps even more. we lost a year's worth of social development, which is just as important. what i don't understand, which i think you will agree, is that there is no place where accountability is more important than in our students' knowledge. every time you tried to instill accountability, the teachers unions fight it. randy is a very good advocate for her organization, and this is all part of being able to sit down with people whos policies you may not agree withe. she has moved on charter schools from where she originally stood

to where she is now. charter schools are a step in the right direction. they are designed around the student, rather than being designed around the building, or around the process. i think we need performance pay for teachers. i want the best teachers paid more. raise my taxes. i give them money anyway for scholarships. i would gladly pay for teachers who know how to educate their students. i would gladly pay for them to stay in the profession and make it their career. we need a better approach for technology. there is no replacement for that interaction between student and teacher. technology can make learning more innovative, and it can make it more personal if used the right way. i would be taking a look at greater opportunity scholarships so that every child, regardless of where they are from, every

child has access to that quality education, and it does not matter their parental situation, does no matter their income, does not matter what neighborhood they live in. these are serious reforms, that need to happen not only in the suburbs particularly in the inner-city. let me tell you something -- we do not have a quality when it comes to schools. we do not have opportunity when it comes to opportunity -- we do not have equality when it comes to opportunity. on the road to adulthood, if a child is ignored, forgotten, or left behind, that child will hurt themselves and will hurt the rest of society. we have to do a much better job in the inner cities and rural areas, because they are also forgotten in making sure every child has a quality education. host: we are taking your calls

for frank luntz, communications strategist. guest: are my answers to long? host: if you shorten them, we can get more callers in. guest: i don't want to do superficiality, and i don't want to do slogans or soundbites. i see politicians come on this show and you can see " that his answer 2a paragraphs 1 and 3." we have a responsibility to give them the answers they are looking for. host: our next caller is from elmhurst, illinois. caller: i have watched you for forever. guest: i am old! caller: you have made fun of hillary in the past, and you claimed that biden is as equally

culpable as mccarthy with the debt ceiling standoff, you talk about the d.a.'s messaging about the raid on mar-a-lago. you are wrong on climate change. your intellect, your gifts, your magic ability walk people down at primrose path with youro ability -- ability to walk people down a primrose path with your focus groups has been used for people for decades. have you ever asked yourself, shouldn't i just go away? guest: no, never. it is my responsibility to fix those things if i got them wrong. on, climate i do sit with john kerry to discuss issues of

climate. i am engaged in language on that, because the people advocating that legislation advocate sustainability. sustainability is about the status quo. that lake will still be there, that forest will still be there, the air will still be there. that is not good enough. if you want people to address the climate issue, you have to talk about cleaner, healthier, safer. yo messagingur --your messaging stinks! if i have been given a gift, then i have a responsibility to use it to make a measurable impact, and that is what i will do. on immigration, we have to get a secure, border but we also have

to respect dream or who came to this country through no fault of their around and are here and trapped in limbo because of the whole daca issue. we can do both. we can walk and chew gum. we can fix our immigration system and provide a secure border. i'm going to talk about common sense solution.s i'm going to talk about being responsible and sensible. i'm going to ask peopl -- have people from the trump side who are angry at me, -- i will hold both of your responsible. i will make both of you look at each other in the mirror. i spoke at ravi college. for those of you who are looking for this kind of education where you hear from both sides, where

you are required to take on the challenges of the world, you are required to speak properly, you are required to address your seniors as "sir," you are required not to wear shabby clothing, you hold your head up, your pastor matters, your speaking -- posture matters, your speaking matters, and you have to know the classics, cannot get away with fingerpainting, you cannot get away with watching movies. you are taught the classics. you are taught global history, not just british history. if you watch a kid who goes into a high school, junior high that turns them into incredible adults, adults that you would be proud of, ravi college. i am doing the same thing in los angeles, one of the poorest most challenged communities in america. i don't know if they have been

putting them up while i have been talking. we adults have made a mess of things, so let's try to help the next generation fix it. host: david in mississippi, independent. caller: good morning. c-span is great. mr. luntz, i hope the started charter school in south carolina. i i'm calling in because of the guy on school choice and all of that. i was on the board of directors. people need to know about charter and magnet schools. there is a board of directors and they hire all of the teachers. when i got into a conflict between younger -- between a younger teacher and the older ladies on the board who thought that she looked too good, but she had a masters degree. here is the thing.

there is no transportation for charter schools. you have to bring your kid to high school. 10th grade and up they have their cars, but there is no money for athletics. you get the basics. let's say you start a softball team. the schools have to pay for everything. they still rent a football field because they do not have the money to buy a stadium. the first two years we started this charter school, we took every student in our county that got kicked out of their high schools just because you say " school choice" does not mean your kid will get into that charter school. it depends on the board of directors and what they want. if they want that public money for the first 2 or 3 years, now

there is a lottery system for this high school. they pick and choose. host: let's get a response. guest: david, if you are in education, try to make your question a little bit sharper, but you are right, there is a difference. not every student can get into every school. i i'm tired of hearing that every child has a right to but not producing it -- to a quality education but not producing it. we talk about this in the city. we do not talk about the rural communities where they struggle every day to file classroom, to find teachers -- to fill the classrooms, to find teachers. money should follow students, and students should follow the paths of their dreams.

you need to find a way to enroll them and find the funding to be able to do this. if we are not willing to fund our young people, then we will face the consequences as we are right now with students who cannot compete versus those from china or korea or germany. we will find our students unable to operate in the economy of the 21st century. of all of the things we should be fighting over, this is number one. of all of the things we should insist on success, choice, charter, performance pay, scholarships. there is nothing more important we can fund than this. host: that is all the time we have for this segment. guest: we are done! i appreciate the calls, even those hostile to me. i hope this voice will last as

long as this physical nature lasts. host: we hope so tooo >> thursday morning, labor department secretary jenny testified before the senate committee. she currently acts as the acting secretary of labor. live coverage starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington live and on-demand. keep updated with live streams of diplomacy and hearings from u.s. congress, white house events, the court, campaigns, and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for

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