internet is harder. that is why we are providing low income students access to internet so homework can just be homework. cox, connect to compete. announcer: cox supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. coming up, investigative reporting on undisclosed real estate sales by supreme court justice clarence thomas. we will speak with justin elliott, a reporter. then, republican strategist adam goodman and justin stacy talk about their podcast and political news of the day. washington journal starts right now. ♪ host: good morning.

saturday, april 22. several u.s. outlets are reporting president biden is making plans to formally announce his bid for a second term. the announcement is expected as soon as next week. this morning, we are asking if you think president biden should run for a second term. why or why not? the lines or -- are as usual. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. be sure to include your name and city or state. or online at twitter or instagram at c-span wj. i want to show the headline from the new york times. biden in final stage of 2024 planning with announcement as early as tuesday a. campaign video is set to be in

production and donors are being mobilized for a run that could be announced early next. mr. biden, who said last week while in ireland that he would enter the race, "relatively soon" will spend the weekend at camp david. he is expected to be joined by family members and advisors. he has not yet given approval of the announcement plan. on monday, the biden operation was discussing the possibility of a low-key video announcement next week on tuesday which marks the fourth anniversary of his entry into the 2020 race. one of mr. biden's favorite poems, which he has often quoted is about making history and hope rhyme. there was a poll from the associated press that came a few days ago. i want to show the souls. it asked about president biden's

reelection. it says 26% of total survey supported him -- surveyed supported him reelecting. 42 percent of democrats want him to run again. 78% of democrats approve of him -- his performance. 71% will vote for him if he is nominated. i wonder where you fall in the category and what you think. take a look at what president biden said last week about his economic record. [video clip] pres. biden: our economic plan is working. we have created 200,000 brand-new jobs in two years. that is more than any president rated in four years. [applause] unemployment is at 3.5 percent, a mere 50 year low.

also minorities -- african-american unemployment is down low and hispanic and across-the-board. nearly 800,000 good paying manufacturing jobs. the fastest growth in 40 years. where is the rule that says we cannot be the manufacturing capital of the worlds again? i do not know where that is written. it is going to be us. it is an all-time record for construction jobs. where is it written that we cannot manufacture more than anyone else in the world? we have made this progress in fiscally responsible way. i will get to this in second by how they are going to cut spending and the like -- but in my first two years in office, i brought the deficit down by a record $1.7 trillion. we spent less than $1.7

trillion. host: that was the president earlier this week. our question for this segment is, should president biden run for reelection? we start with melissa, a democrat in cleveland, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i believe he should run again. it is protocol. an incumbent president is expected to run for reelection for a second term. with all we have out there, what is the alternative to him not running again? bernie sanders cannot maintain support of the more conservative voters. we have donald trump, an anti-vaxxer. we have ron desantis.

we want fascism? is that what we really want? the alternative to joe biden? i do not really think so. the only concern would potentially be him staying healthy because it can be very stressful. campaigning in addition to being president. host: you don't think he is too old? he is 80 years old right now. caller: if he can stay healthy and active, and should not be a problem. but, like i said, it is a highly stressful situation to be running for president and an incumbent at the same time. that would be the only question people should have. whether or not he can stay healthy. host: lori in modesto, california. independent. caller: i definitely think you

should run again. as far as him being 80 years old, my mom was a week short of her 100th birthday and could run circles around me. it depends on what your genes are. i think he is doing a really good job and i think he should be able to finish it out. host: when you say he is doing a really good job, tell me what you like. caller: i like the fact of the environment and the jobs, and trying to work on climate change . are you there? host: i am listening. go ahead. caller: there is many things i like about him. wanting to get good union jobs. like in california, there is 4000 miles of canals. if you cover them with solar panels, you save water.

they usually run right by the freeway. and charging stations. it makes sense. it keeps the water from evaporating and saves the land from being ruined, the soil. and the water keeps the solar panel school so it does not raise the temperature above five degrees. it makes all the sins in the world. and that is quite a few union jobs. host: let's take a look at what wall street journal said. they said president biden's approval rating remains underwater with 42% of voters approving of his performance in office and 56% disapproving, watching his december status. yes, he draws more support than his 42% approval meeting -- rating against donald trump and desantis. voters who only "somewhat

disapprove" of his performance rather than strongly disapprove say they would camp over the other potential gop -- they would pick him over the other potential gop nominees. san francisco, california, democrat. caller: i would like to see gina raimondo, the commerce secretary, run instead of joe biden or some other democrats run. host: tell me why. caller: i think he is too old, unfortunately. it happens to all of us. in the meantime, i think you should walk and swing his arms when he walks like regular people so he will look more vigorous. i think he has a great chance and i will vote for sure. he has done a lot for the country and especially the environment, with the stimulus

for buying highly efficient air conditioners. i bought one and it works great. host: all right, james. let's hear from marshall, tennessee, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? as a republican, i think joe biden, course, should not run again. i look at the state of our nation and i wrote quickly would like to go through a chronological piece. when the primaries began in 2020, we were hit with covid. all of everything went down as far as the campaigns went. one hunter biden's laptop came out, the state media refused to report it, thus interfering and influencing the 2020 election. after that, he shut down the gas lines, making us dependent on

other nations, even though the gas line was not up and running, it would have been. then, we had -- first, we had afghanistan, which he said was a perfect operation. then, we had the spy craft that hovered over our military bases for over a week before they shot it down. because they did not want it to land on a house. with russia hitting our drone, or destroying it, they said that was unprofessional. i am sorry but i honestly believed today's democrat party, not the voters, is trying to destroy our country and they are doing it on purpose and systematically. look at the state of our roads and ask yourself, why are we building roads in brazil when we are driving in potholes? host: all right.

let's go to leesburg, georgia. line free democrats. is it mindy? caller: yes. i want to talk about the previous caller for a couple things. when president biden came into power, this country went through a lot. he spent two years in office -- look at the infrastructure. joe biden gives perspectives. so many, you can name them. the country is in a better position if he runs again. if he runs, i will support him fully. host: take a look at what fox news is reporting. it says this progressive trash

status quo biting running in 2024. he "must step down" and -- claimed his age was deeply worrying. the article says several prominent progressive party members argue joe biden should not run for reelection in 2022 due to his age. seven to the status quo and failure to adequately combat alleged right-wing authoritarianism, as well. the nation rounded up the opinions of 11 prominent left-wing contributors on the reelection topic and most claim it is time for someone new to lead the democratic party. recognizable liberals, including former u.s. secretary of labor robert reich, and former ohio state senator nina turner, argued it is time for the partner to consider other options. let's go next to michael, sanford, florida.

republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i do not think president biden is capable of functioning. it is clear his handlers are running the show. i think this is a continuation of the biden administration -- the obama administration. you may recall obama making the comment that the best way for him to get a third term would be to get someone in there that would be able to be controlled. i think that is what has happened with president biden. i think all you have is a continuation of the obama administration. all the former obama people are now in the biden administration. host: are you still there? you say he is being controlled by other people, coming what you mean by that. caller: there are a number of caretakers or handlers that are basically controlling him.

he does not stop and take any questions. they have him totally scripted with what he is saying. i think there is no question that he really doesn't have a clue about what is going on, because of his cognitive condition. i think it is clear. host: mark, democrat in minneapolis, minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am a staunch democrat and have been for many, many years, as long as i can remember, back to ronald reagan days when i left the republican party. i would like to see someone new but i will support joe biden. i think he has done an incredible job, especially considering that we had a pandemic that affected our economy and our jobs. we tried to get ourselves healthy as we are a healthy country now, thanks to the

administration and joe biden getting vaccines in place and getting people to mask and take care of things. i work in the health care industry so i watched it firsthand from the pandemic and its effect on all of us. i would like the republican party to remind themselves that the problem with afghanistan is donald trump made a deal with the taliban that gave a date of certain withdrawal time of may. we were given a month but that basically put us into a corner i agree with robert wright. i would love to see new blood in the democratic party move forward. host: like who? caller: i would love to see a young woman who is likable but also willing to take risks. i live in elcon omar's district

and i am proud of her. a lot of people have questions for her but i am very proud that she is willing to stand and take a stance and be very firm in her convictions. she cannot run, of course, being an immigrant, but one of the individuals from the "squad" like aoc. i would love for her to move forward in the party and be a voice for us and our nation. she can grasp the young boats which is something each party needs to grasp. host: we will hear from president biden who was talking about speaker mccarthys debt ceiling plan. p --p[video clip] pres. biden: to thinking told billion-dollar companies to stop stashing off the coast and

shipping overseas. i did not hear any of that. instead he asked for because too many important programs that hard-working, middle-class americans count on. all the while, he and mega officials are pushing for more tax giveaways and overwhelming benefits to the obvious america and business corporations. it is time that the trickle down dressed up maga clothing is clearer than ever. the fan has details. maccarthy comes along and delivers a speech with not a plan. in some ways, it is simple. he talked about limiting spending but look at what he did not say. he did not tell you exactly how much he wants to cut with the house republicans wanting to cut critical programs, so-called

discretionary spending, by 22%. that would mean cutting the number of people who administer social security and medicare, meaning longer wait times, higher costs for child care, significantly higher costs for college, older americans come up those with disabilities in families of veterans. leaving our brave warriors to get checkups and mental health services and treatment in -- and substance disorders out in the cold. tens of thousands of people suffering from the opioid endemic -- epidemic would be denied care. this would cut border security, clean air, clean water. this is not hyperbole, look it up. republicans want to defund the fbi and the police. talk about the funding. do not like the fbi.

they may be arresting some of them. it is outrageous, think about it. defund the fbi? maga republicans have issued a bill that could take food assistance away from as many as 10 million kids -- people, 4 million children and put them at risk of going hungry in the rest -- 12 new country in the world. they support cutting medicaid that could lead to many losing the health care -- there health care. here is the thing. do these painful cuts actually help the deficit and reduce costs? the honest answer is no. host: that was president biden from wednesday. we are asking you if you think you should run again for reelection. there is an announcement expected early next week. before we take more calls, i want to show this article on the front page of the washington

post that happened yesterday. "the supreme court preserves access to abortion drugs." the article says the supreme court on friday preserved full access to a key drive that has been taken by many women to terminate early pregnancies. it is the first major abortion-related decision since overturning roe v. wade constitutional guarantee last year. injustice justice put on hold a lower court's ruling in favor -- the justices put a hold on a lower court's ruling in favor of saying the drug was wrong. and whether the fda had properly approved use of the drug more than 20 years ago will continue. that is from an article in the washington post and that happened yesterday. on this topic of president biden's possible reelection announcement, we have got joseph

in fayetteville, north carolina who sent us a text "bden -- biden was able to do what others could not do with their career. if you run for president again, i would be happy. he proves he has to vote. age is just a number. we can accuse any politician of being crazy or incompetent." truth sayers says, "no, i would prefer him not to run. we need someone who will unite us. i do not think that is possible with either of them." susan. caller: thank you for taking my call. not have mercy on us. we need a new leader. president biden should retire for good. look at what is happening in this country. i read in the news that people

who have bad credits are getting more priority. if they cannot pay, they can get more loans. what the hike is going on? i want one of the squad to run. please have mercy on us all. president biden should retire and enjoy the remaining of his life. host: denise is a democrat in st. thomas, virgin islands. in morning -- good morning. caller: thank you for taking my calls. i live in an island owned by the u.s. so we are considered american citizens but the former president trickle down across the world, lies, hatefulness, deceit and violence and said --

and president biden is a breath of fresh air for so many people. you have to have individual decency with the former president did not have but joe biden has it. host: what do you think of president biden's record so far? caller: i commend him. i commend his record and all he has been trying to do even though he has had a lot of pushback from the republican party. i am concerned about whether he will be able to compete another four years but i think he did a very good job as president. his decency is what i appreciate most. host: david in north carolina, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call this morning. i do not think president biden should run again for reelection.

it is just that the country, over the last two years -- i am an independent so i am not a party person by any means. i have seen this country go down the last two years. immigration has gone through the roof. prices, day-to-day living -- i have never seen it so high. i know we have had a pandemic and we have had things that have happened, but there still is -- i do not see anything from president biden that shows he really cares about the american people, everyone in the american people. both parties, democrats and republicans -- i know we had

trump who got a lot of pushback from being anti-democrat. i am seeing president biden -- antirepublican. the speech he had wednesday, it sounds like he is going to run. host: when you say that he does not seem to care about all americans, can you tell me about a politician in the past and she really admired that did care for all americans -- past that you really admired that did care for all americans? caller: i really liked ronald reagan. he reached to both sides of the aisle. i think you did an excellent job. i am independent. my pocketbook, my wallet, trumped did a fine job. i feel like my security was good under trump. but i know he has a lot of baggage. a lot of people hate the man and

i did not understand that because i thought he did a good job. i look at what has happened -- i am not a party man. i was a party person for 35 years but i see character. there is different sides. host: if it is between donald trump and joe biden, who would you vote for? caller: i would vote for donald trump. simply because the financial situation, the immigration situation. this country is in a dangerous time with this mess behalf. but i understood what the caller said about wishing donald trump nor joe biden would run. host: arizona, democrat, paul.

good morning. caller: good morning. i have never heard such a group of crybabies in my life. we have had the best job structure we have had in 50 years. we have infrastructure going on in every state and building -- billions of dollars going out welding bridges and roads. yet, you would we are in the midst of a depression if you listen to republicans and the last guy who claimed to be an independent, yet repeated every republican talking points, and said he would vote for donald trump, who denied covid, got us into the depth of the covid parent that pandemic and did nothing to get us out of it. the only did things for himself. 200 million dollars on playing golf. which president did that? not even eisenhower who play

more golf than any we have ever had. we are in great shape. if joe biden wants to run again, he has my vote. host: william, north carolina, republican. what do you think? caller: can you hear me? host: yes, but just barely. caller: ok, sorry. hello, how are you doing? glad to be on the line. like the last caller -- donald trump did warp speed. he warp speed the drugs to get mass-produced without fda approval. he was responsible for killing covid by giving us vaccines. going back -- previously -- are you still there? host: yes. caller: when president biden was

giving a speech, he was saying how republicans do not like the fbi. the fbi is trying to tell the doj to go ahead with the hunter biden thing, but the doj is not doing it. the fbi is very frustrated right now. as for if president biden should run again, obviously gavin newsom will come up and take control. if he does not do this right away, what is going to happen is robert f. kennedy, jr., who just did a speech in boston a couple days ago, is getting major play. some democrats are listening to what he is saying. he has the name. with the hunter biden scandal coming, they are going to phase president biden out.

they want to gavin newsom. now, we have a rope with kennedy coming up that the democrats did not expect -- a rogue with kennedy coming up that the democrats did not expect. the democrats are going to say that we need to get president biden out but he is going to run again. democrats are scrambling right now. host: on the republican side, who are you supporting? caller: i like donald trump and ron desantis. host: if you can only vote for one, which you can only vote for one, let's say you had to make the choice right now. caller: i would give it to donald trump because he is older and ron desantis can get it later on. he is still young. host: michael in stamford, connecticut. independent. the morning. caller: good morning.

it is going to be president biden. president biden is going to be the only one running. on the other hand, what you got? trump or desantis. santos is dumber than trump. he sounds like he wants to be the czar or someone in charge of everybody. a lot of people are calling saying my roads are busted up but you live in the worst states in the country. i live in connecticut and they are paving our roads right now. the hunter biden thing -- you know what is donald trump has been indicted but hunter biden has not. everybody has all this evidence on hunter biden why is he not indicted? host: the other side would tell you it is because the justice department is refusing to do it or slow walking it. what do you think of that? caller: i think it has been going on for many years and they

cannot come up with any evidence? when is the last time you heard the justice department say and we are going to slow walk this on hunter biden? it is all over facebook and the laptop. that is nuts. host: going back to the topic, when you vote for president biden for a second term? caller: yes. i do not think anybody else will challenge him as the democratic party rated trump -- democratic party. with donald trump, are you going to vote for someone who has been indicted? ron desantis is banning books, drugs, and everything. what kind of leader is he? host: jim, georgia, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would vote for president biden again, definitely. i have to say that he is a very

good president i do not think he is a great resident. he has just done all the things that he is supposed to do. i think he has done pretty well. but my thing with the democratic party is they are just unimaginative. i am scratching my head, wondering -- for example, debbie washington schulz basically slammed the door on bernie sanders in 2016. then, we wound up with hillary clinton who should have won that election. i guess it is just like eric is from the leaders of the democratic party -- like an arrogance from the leaders of the democratic party. host: where ua bernie sanders supporter? caller: yes.

i think he would have been a better candidate than hillary clinton. host: would you like him to run again? caller: absolutely. i think he would have been a fantastic president and would bring something fresh. i look at republicans and i cannot believe they are so behind donald trump who is -- there is just not words for what donald trump is as a candidate. i cannot believe that people like moscow mule are not going -- moscow mitch are not going to find him guilty for the things he has done. i hope the republican party down in flames because they are so behind trump. host: let's take a look at an interview. this is back in february. president biden was asked about his age and how it may impact. [video clip] >> let me ask if i conversation

you had at home. both supporters and were. you would be 80 to when you are elected and 86 at the end of your term. is your age part of your own collect -- calculation on whether to run again? pres. biden: asking about my age, it is legitimate to do that. knowing about my age, i say watch me. host: what you think about president biden running for reelection? are you supportive or against it? gary in florida. caller: it is unbelievable that people still support donald trump, a guy who wants to abolish the 90 days constitution. who personally said he loves murderous dictators like vladimir putin and north korea's leader. a guy who has been under several criminal indictments and is under more to come. his whole life has been about being a conman and exploiter.

the things he promised was an infrastructure bill which he did not do. he was going to reduce the deficit of spending but raised it a trillion dollars while in office. he said mexico was going to pay for the wall but did not deliver. it did not do any of the things he promised and ran for. host: staying in florida. jim, a republican. caller: good morning. in answer to your last phone call, just let me say that the reason people support donald trump is because he accomplished more as president in the shortest amount of time that any other president u.s. has ever had. i do not know who the democrats think they are fooling but they exposed themselves when they

elected a nonfunctioning zombie for senate and then they elected , with crime running over chicago, they claimed they wanted to get rid of lori lightfoot. then who did they elect? lori lightfoot 2, only worse. chicago will keep having crime. federman is going to be a zombie. it does not matter who runs for the democratic nomination. because the democrats will vote for that anyways because they are hooked on government money. everybody calling in, i do not know who they they are fully but republicans know democrats are afraid to lose her government money and that is the reason they vote democrat. you had president biden with a speech who said they created

12,000 jobs. he did not even realize they made that mistake. if it does not matter because desk democrats say 24% people do not like president biden. but on your own program, use it 81% would vote for him anyways. that shows the whole thing. it does not matter who is running, democrats will vote for him anyway. host: take a look at axios. "democratic anxiety emerges over cupids debt ceiling stance." some house democrats are beginning to question president biden's refusal to sit down with kevin mccarthy on the debt limit. it signals the house republicans debt ceiling bill is having the intended effect of serving as a gop starting position and debt ceiling negotiation. president biden in his speech on

wednesday reacting to a proposal and is are threatening to default, "unless i agreed to all these wacko notions they have and cut spending in exchange for lifting the debt limit." we are taking your calls until 8:00 eastern time. john in clifton park, new york. caller: i would like to thank you and all of your colleagues. you are an asset to this country. you voice our opinions the matter what it is. i do have an objection about the way you set up your program. on numerous occasions, i have heard people on both sides and a lot of times i have heard people on the right claim c-span is essentially -- they come short of saying that you are funded by george soros. that has to stop. they had to think about what you

do for the people in this country. essentially what it amounts to many times is c-span, with a situation like this morning, they will have republican only lines. they will not have independence or democrats. the republicans demonize you and your colleagues because they do not care and do not like certain things from various articles that you read or anything else. it has to stop. that has to be the same for the democrats as well. basically, i think that joe biden has actually done a good job as far as him being reelected. people claim that he has been sleeping show and everything else. but as one of the previous callers said, who created

infrastructure? in the first couple years of his administration, donald trump talked about infrastructure every week. he would be in every single part of the country speaking about infrastructure. as far as crime goes, we basically had a -- in new york. earlier in the week, the police chose part of the committee that was interfering with the state's ability to determine their own rights. her and jim jordan were a part of that committee that was opposed to the york has a lot of crime and everything like this. yet, when it came time where a situation where a 20-year-old girl was shot and killed because she happened to drive into the -- pull into someone's driveway,

it happens in this district. was she there for the memorial? no. she was nowhere in sight. what it amounts to is -- the main reasons for my call is people on both sides of the i'll have to stop demonizing the collies on c-span -- of the aisle bank have to stop demonizing the colleagues of c-span. host: a text from elaine in washington who said president biden should be elected for another term but we need a different vice president with the skills and ability to be a national and international leader who is prepared to as an incumbent in 2028 or step in if president biden is unable to complete his term. kevin is next in windward connecticut. you think you mentioned running? caller: definitely.

damn right he should run again. look at -- who has the highest rate of murder in the country. republicans are running on culture wars. that is a state problem. we have national problems. the guy in florida, he cannot even stand up to trump. even mickey mouse the 10. president biden is for democracy and that is what i am four. you have to stand by democracy all the way. enough with the culture war craft. that is all i have to say. host: david in michigan. life or democrats. hello. caller: good morning. i think it should be democrats only because of course the republicans will call in and hate president biden.

they hate anybody on the left that is liberal and that loves people. i think he will do a good job. he has done a great job. the only thing donald trump did was get in and give corporations and billionaires breaks. but most of his success was from the obama era, after obama left the economy in shape and he just rode the coattails of obama. as a black person, i hear people talking. we have a few black conservatives but the overwhelming majority of the black population that i talked to in my town is at church and places say that if ron desantis from florida runs, we will mobilize to be 10. out of all the races of people in this country, he picked like people to throw our history out of florida. everything he does is antiblack. everybody knows it.

if he gives it or donald trump -- we know donald trump has a problem with lax because his father and family would not rent to black people. he took all our history out of the state of florida for the kids and colleges which really hurt black people all over the nation. people think we are not noticing but we definitely would not have ron desantis as our president. host: just, indianapolis, indiana, democrat. caller: good morning. i think you are a first-class journalist. you are reasonable, fair-minded and doing a good job. thank god for c-span. at least you are not being c4 lying or distorting the 2 -- being sued for line or distorting the truth. murdoch is part of the problem. as far as joe biden, to bring up his age is fair.

but when i look at the other side, it'd donald trump and ron desantis, it is almost like charles manson and jim jones. both these guys are bad news. like the previous callers said, ron desantis is a fascist. donald trump is a con man. his father was a member of the klan. how can any veteran support donald trump? he is a draft dodger. host: are you a veteran? caller: yes. host: who are a supporter of president biden. i understand that. what about the withdrawal from afghanistan? caller: donald trump made a deal with the taliban and the taliban let them back on the streets. yes, they wreak havoc. the withdrawal from vietnam was also a debacle.

wartime situations are just chaotic. they are unpredictable. nobody is ever going to get it right. no one. i don't care who the president is. with lebanon, ronald reagan was the president and a group of marines and sailors were massacred. i was there. war is unpredictable but donald trump is a draft dodger. he is a narcissist, a predator, and an outright the. host: let's take a look at what the former president set on tucker carlson's show about president biden's age. [video clip] >> do you think president biden will stay in the race?

>> i watch him just like you do. i think it is almost inappropriate for me to say it but i deal with other people. i do not see how it is possible. it is not an age thing. i have friends that are 88, 89, 92. marcus is 95. smart, sharp mentally. the founder of home depot, one of the founders. i had a meeting with him a few months ago and he is 100%. i know people that built their fortunes from 80 to 90. they were always struggling and they made a fortune from 80 to 90. a couple people in particular. he is not too old. i think they do the age thing because he is four or five years behind. they say this is a way of getting from out. there is something wrong.

i saw his answer today on television about whether or not he was going to run to a very nice guy named al rocher. cannot get a softer question than that. there was a long answer about 80's. i do not think he can. host: host: we are taking your calls for about another 10 minutes on this question of whether you think president biden should run for a second term. thomas, fort largo, republican. caller: good morning. like the rest of the people about the democratic side and republican side, i am a republican but that does not matter for the purpose of why i am calling you, and both sides are adamantly opposed to each other. if you are going to debate someone, you debate upon the facts. first, you agree on the facts and then you debate.

however, we cannot agree on the facts. that is the problem. my contention is this is not really a political war. this country is being destroyed from within. i do not think anybody should disagree with this. all we have to do is look back at the history and see where our country was at one time. we were all proud of it and we were the world leader but now we are all cowering from china. russia and china just sit back and laugh at how we are destroying ourselves. here's what i will say and then i will get off. both democrats, republicans, independents all need to turn back to god and pray because he walked away from god. our schools, our teaching, our youth, and look what is happening to us. whether republican or democrat, we all need to believe in our

supreme greater -- creator. until that happens, all we are going to do is continue on the road that rome went on. the destruction of the roman empire, we will copy it almost paid for page. god bless america. host: henry, democrat. caller: good morning. i cannot believe you read something from fox news -- actually the fox propaganda network, and the wall street journal. both should be disbanded. rupert murdoch should be deported with his family and they should take everything they have ill-gotten from america. you cannot fix stupid, racist, fascist. that is what the maggots are. they make american greed, antidemocratic terrorists. they are corrupt as trump.

i am glad joe biden will run again. one of the main reasons i am glad is because he has kamala harris as his vice president. kamala harris was the attorney general of the state of california. she is very educated and congenial. the woman is brilliant. i remember when white people used to like prosecutors. she used to be a prosecutor now that she is a woman of color and a great vice president -- and i hope if joe biden runs again that he will make his full term. but if he does not, i know he has kamala harris behind him and she will make a great president. i am sick and tired of people denigrating that woman who is shown to be heads and tails above anything the republican party or the democratic party has to put forward as far as leadership in this country. we need to stop bashing women of

color. we need to stop this endurance and racism in this country. that is why we are where we are right now. joe biden has done a fantastic job and has given us an infrastructure of projects. he is bringing down inflation. people talk about energy independence. do not have energy independence. have always depended on foreign oil markets. stop lying. republicans do nothing but live. every time they open their mouth. host: cassie in idaho. independent. caller: yes. host: go right ahead. caller: my answer to the question simply is no, he should not. i think we need to leave his legacy where it is. he has done a good job of things he has worked on so far but we

need younger, more educated people to really put their feet into the political ring because some of our clinical people are getting really old. there is nothing wrong with experience but if you look at how many years president biden has been in politics, it is a growth thing, but let's get some of our younger people in this area. host: is there anybody you are thinking about? caller: yes, me. i actually called the election office in washington, d.c. to get applications and roles for president. they said i could not do fundraising until after may 1 and they cannot send me an application until after may 1. i suppose it was because i am in idaho.

host: how old are you? caller: i am 76. host: good luck with your election. john in mississippi, democrat. caller: i am jonathan thomas from the mississippi delta. clearly every president is expected to run for a second term. they are talking about stressful for president biden, of course. after making the first term, the second term is a term. i say, let's go joe. thank you. host: back in lewisville, texas. mcgrath. -- democrat. caller: i appreciate you taking my call. in the political arena right now, democrats, republicans, independents but there is one

thing we are forgetting about political issues. if we watch history, presidents -- president trump is when the most crimes against black people occurred. how can you guys sit back and say, we are going to vote for this guy? a man who can say that i could stand out and she whoever and nobody -- and shoot whoever and nobody cares? seriously. america needs a president -- joe biden has done nothing wrong. a president is not just a president. he has backup and orders. cannot just say, i am going to do this. he has people behind. thank you. host: that is our last call for

this segment. thank everybody that joined us. coming up, justin elliott joins us to discuss his reporting on justice is previously undisclosed -- justice clarence thomas's previously undisclosed real estate deals. ♪ be right back. announcer: two public corporations, cbs and viacom used to be controlled by the same man. this is the subject of a book called "unscripted." our guest is reporter james b

stewart. with his cowriter rachel abrams, they start in the preface of the book that the drama that unfolded may have occurred at viacom and cbs but the recent greed, backstabbing, plotting and betrayal at the upper levels of american business and society has hardly been confined to one or two companies or one wealthy family. viacom and cbs emerged in late 2019. the new company is called paramount global. announcer: co-author james b stewart and his book "unscripted" on this episode of booknotes+. this is available on c-span now app or where ever you get your podcasts. announcer: gets raqqa the of the 180 for congressional directory now available at c-span shop .org. it has contact information for

every house and senate member and important information on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies and state government. scan the code on the right to order your copy today or go to c-spanshop.org. it is our help support are not -- helps support our nonprofit operations. ♪ >> coming up, we talk about misses roberts' role on the -- about misses wilson's role -- who was this country bump again who decided that she could be the executive? throughout her life she showed she was the kind of person who would barrel into a situation

she was not sure she could handle. she was confident, smart, she relied on her own opinion, she was funny she was one of those people who put everyone at ease. she was also quick to hold a grudge. she was racist. she had a fickle regard for the truth. >> rebecca roberts and her book " untold power," on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a and all of our podcasts on the c-span now at. -- c-span now app. >> a healthy democracy does not only look like this. it also looks like this. get informed astray from the source on c-span, unfiltered unbiased word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you

are, you get the opinion that matters most. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. host: washington journal continues. welcome back to washington journal. we are joined now by justin elliott. he is a reporter from pro-public. we will be talking about clarence thomas and federal disclosure laws. welcome to the program. before we get into the meat of the topic, can you remind us about pro-public a, their mission, and how it is funded? guest: we are a nonprofit nonpartisan news organization based in new york. we cover a whole range of topics,, business, politics, all kinds of things. we are funded by a combination

of wealthy organizations, wealthy 80 donors and small nation owners. host: i wanted to talk about you. you have written several articles by justice clarence thomas. the latest one has this headline -- " billionaire harlan crow bought property from justice thomas. the justice did not disclose the deal." i will read you a quick quote. "in 2014 one of harlan crow's companies bought a string of property in savanna, georgia. it was not a marquee acquisition, just an old single story home and 2 vacant lots down the road. what made it noteworthy where the people on the others of the deal, supreme court justice clarence thomas.

it is the first instance of money flowing from the mega donor to the justice. what is the significance here? guest: that was actually the second article we did. both of them have been about financial entanglements between justice thomas and this texas billionaire political donor named harlan crow. the reason we are writing about this is justice thomas has an extremely unusual relationship with harlan crow. our first story was about how harlan crow has been taking justice thomas on lavish, luxury vacations, flying justice thomas on his private jet, taking him on cruises around the world, places like indonesia and new zealand on kuro's -- on crow's

super yacht. these gifts of travel were not disclosed by justice thomas as required by law. the second story you read an excerpt of was about a real estate deal between the two of them, also undisclosed by justice thomas where thomas purchased a house and -- where crow purchased a house and 2 vacant lots from justice thomas. it was not disclosed omn the form -- the last thing i would say is that harlan crow is not just a businessman. he is somebody who has been deeply involved in funding political campaigns, and

politics more generally with a special focus on funding groups that are trying to advance conservative areas. this is someone who has a history of seeking to influence politics and policy. he has a seemingly -- host: i will remind viewers, if you would like to call in you can do that now and asked justin elliott questions or make comments on this topic. our lines are by party affiliation. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . what do we know about the deal itself? guest: that is a great question. we know the basics from public

records. we know harlan crow or a company controlled by him paid $135,000 for house and 2 vacant lots in savannah partially owned by justice thomas. hte rest of the -- the rest of the property was owned by relatives of justice thomas. harlan crow, even though he is a real estate billionaire is not in the business of buying small, single family homes. this is a house that clarence thomas spent part of his childhood in. harlan crow told us in a statement that one day he hoped to build a museum in that house about justice thomas's life. when a -- one of the things

that made this deal unusual is that justice thomas's elderly mother had long lived in the house that harlan crow bought, which put crow in the very unusual position of possibly being the landlord to the mother of a supreme court justice. we are not even sure if landlord is the right word here because we are not sure if he is charging her rent. that is one you unusual aspect of the transaction. crow spent $35,000 making improvements to this house after he bought it. it is not explained how making improvements would serve a project of historical preservation. crow did not directly answer our questions about why he bought these vacant lots from justice

thomas, which are a block down the street. it is unclear why those would be necessary to make a museum. host: there is a federal disclosure law passed after watergate that requires justices and federal officials to disclose real estate deals over $1000. explain that law and how would it --how it applies here. guest: this is called the ethics in government act passed in the 1970's. it applies to federal officials, specifically supreme court justices. it might sound kind of technical, but it is important. the idea is you want the public to have a sense of the finances and financial transactions of public officials in order to scrutinize potential public --

potential questions of influence. on this form that many officials have to file, you have to list certain assets. you have to disclose many sorts of financial deals, including the sale of real estate over $1000 in those cases. we talked to a number of ethics law experts who say it is clear cut that properties like this would have to be disclosed by justice thomas that happened back in 2014. you can look at the financial disclosure for 2014 and the years around it, and this deal was never disclosed. we have not gotten a response from justice thomas and the supreme court about why it was not disclosed. there was a cnn story following our story that reported, based on an anonymous source that justice thomas does plan to

amend his disclosure, but we have not seen that yet. host: what happens though? is there any enforcement, if you fail to report? guest: that is a great question. one of the larger things we are looking at is essentially that question, ethics and the supreme court. i spent many years writing about congress and the executive branch. there is an entire infrastructure of ethics lawyers who monitor these disclosures, enforce the rules if they have been violated. in other parts of the government, you can be forced to amend your form. you could be fined. you could be fired. the law says there could be civil or criminal penalties, if

you knowingly falsify these disclosures. with the supreme court, it is not clear that any of that exists. it is a little bit of a black box, frankly, whether anyone is even reading these forms when the justices submit them every year. unlike other parts of the federal judiciary, the supreme court does not have a code of conduct. they sort of are responsible for policing themselves. it is not clear how war whether they do -- how or whether they do that. host: i want to share with you a segment of a wall street journal opinion piece by james taranto about this topic and about your article specifically. "my review of justice tmas's disclosure convinces me it s an honest mistake.

on all other matters, including his real estate inheritance, he filed the instructions. prepared by the committee on financial disclosures. those instructions don't make clear the statutory oblition to disclose the 2014 transaction. further, the propublictried to cast juste thomas in bad light when they followed the filing instructions without fail." what do you think of that? guest: a couple of thoughts. in terms of whether this was -- we try not to speculate or get inside people's heads. i'm not sure how james taranto

was -- we try not to go there and stick to what we know are the reportable facts. in terms of the rule and the law, the key thing here in our mind and the many ethics lawyers we spoke to is not the instructions but the law. the law has not changed for many years. supreme court justices, it is their job to be close and careful readers of legal texts. from everyone we talked to the law is quite clear on this, and it has not been in dispute. host: just on the side of how are you getting this information, justin? you have done several articles about justice thomas. things are not being reported. how are you finding out about

this? guest: for our first story, more than two decades of -- first story that outlines more than two decades of luxury travel, we used a range of sources, things like flight records for mr. crow's private jet. we talked to a lot of service workers who had worked on harlan crow's super yacht, a 160 foot plus god with a crew of -- plus got with a staff of 10 or 15 people. a whole range of sources that allowed them to put together this picture. this was fairly difficult reporting, in part because justice thomas had not been

disclosing these gifts of travel for many years. i think that is why you did not come up for so many years -- why it did not come out for so many years. when you are on a super yacht, floating somewhere in the pacific ocean, not disclosing, these things can be kept under wraps. host: tony is up first, a republican in eastern pennsylvania. caller: good morning. i if you --i was wondering if you ever inquired about george soros or mr. zuckerberg. these anonymous sources -- guest: yeah, not sure if you

have something specific in mind regarding george soros, but what i would say in general is my colleagues and i are looking at other supreme court justices and the entire supreme court. if someone has any information -- and i am making this up -- that george soros is flying a justice around on his jet, we will write about it as true. host: our next caller is a democrat. caller: i was wondering if anybody else on the supreme court has been looked at for the same thing you are looking at justice thomas for. i wonder if there are other things. i claim to be democrat, but this has nothing to do with the democratic values or anything. it's just to the idea that our

supreme court is being wined and dined for various purposes. guest: yeah, in short, absolutely. my reporting colleagues and i are reporting on this as a whole. i have been covering the supreme court for a handful of months now. this happened to be the first thing we decided to publish. we are interested in the entire court. i am contractually obliged to say that we welcome tips just in general, and you can find my contact information. there is an interesting history here. there was a major supreme court scandal, involving a liberal justice back in the 1960's. it was a camp located scandal.

-- it was a complicated scandal. justice ford is giving back the money initially, but in the ensuing scandal he ended up resigning. i bring that up to say this is not something -- the question of financial entanglements with justices is not something that leads historically -- that is historically associated with democratic versus republican appointed judges. this is matter of concern. host: let's go to kansas city, missouri next, republican, bruce. caller: i have read the wall street journal yesterday morning.

there was a reporter, crediting the old question of the article and you're taking on clarence thomas. they cited examples of some other supreme court justices who had not filed proper papers. i would like to have you react to them. sure you have had plenty of time to read that article. i would like you to address some of the criticisms they leveled. guest: i would say a couple things. i don't want to paraphrase the journal's op-ed, but i would point everyone to the cnn article published following ours that reported justice thomas plans to actually amend forms

here. if that is accurate, i don't think that happens if there is no issue. on the amendments by other justices, it is true that there are plenty of examples of these disclosures being amended by justices appointed by both democrats and republicans. the examples i have seen of amendments are frankly rather inconsequential. we are talking about things like failing to report the purchase of an index fund mutual fund. the reason we are writing about the gifts from harlan crow to justice thomas and this real estate deal is this is not an ordinary transaction like buying a mutual fund.

this is a significant amount of money flowing from a politically active billionaire to a specific supreme court justice over many years, which is quite different, and failing to disclose that relationship and gifts is quite different from failing to report the purchase of a fund where there is no question of influence over the justice. host: our next caller is a democrat. caller: i think everything clarence thomas received are bribed, it is obvious they are bribes. if we are allowing our supreme court, the highest court in our land, that makes the biggest decisions in our land to be bribed and compromised, it is over. i remember clarence thomas

saying "when i first came someone told me i did not have to disclose these things." who told him that? let's investigate that justice. i'm so disgusted by this. i heard that the harlan crow guy along with clarence thomas were the ones who told donald trump who to put on the supreme court! even worse. i remember him at the beginning with the whole anita hill thing. he is shady. he needs to be impeached and fired immediately. a supreme court justice cannot even take a free limo ride from somebody. host: any actual evidence of

influence? guest: a few thoughts. we have no reporting that these are bribes. our stories are not claiming that. the caller is correct on at least one point. the rules for supreme court justices are much looser than they are for many other government officials. what we have been talking about so far is the question of mere disclosure of gifts. many of the ethics lawyers we have spoken to have said that justice thomas has appeared to have repeatedly violated the disclosure lot. the question is whether a public official should be accepting gifts at all. i have had a government worker in an ordinary job told me they are not even allowed to have

someone take them out to lunch. members of congress, we reported in our first story to accept the types of gifts justice thomas has taken would have to get formal preapproval from an ethics committee, and then would also have to disclose them. supreme court justices already are operating in an environment of fewer rules than many other officials, and we are really talking about disclosure here. host: some democratic lawmakers have been talking about having hearings end investigations. what kind of power is congress actually have over the supreme court? guest: turns out to be a surprisingly fraud question. this law we are talking about, the ethics in government act

passed back in the 1970's after watergate, and does explicitly apply to the supreme court. the senate judiciary committee, which is chaired by senator durbin of illinois has announced a hearing that i believe is scheduled for may 2 about supreme court ethics. they have invited chief justice roberts to appear. i have not gotten any word from the court yet on whether that is going to happen. there is actually a constitutional question that this raised about a decade ago by chief justice robertson an annual report he writes about whether congress actually has the power to impose rules, like the disclosure requirements on the court. chief justice roberts publicly raised the question of whether that is constitutional.

there may be some separation of power issues there. it has never been addressed by the supreme court, that i know of that when it comes to these ethics forms, whether or not congress has the power to impose these rules, the fact of the matter is justices have been filing these forms every year for many years. they sign them. if you pull it up online, look at the signing page, it says you are signing these forms. there are potential civil or criminal penalties for falsifying information. they have been following this law. there are bills in congress introduced that would tighten up all these rules around both disclosure and acceptance of gifts, but we do not know what will happen with that at this point. host: phyllis is in martinsburg,

virginia. caller: hello. i want to make a comment here. what we see on display here is the fact that the left hates and fears nothing more than a black conservative, and especially as we sealed this emphasis on clarence thomas, a black conservative with power. propublica is a completely left-wing organization. their attack on him shows that emphasis from the left. what they are doing is a brett kavanaugh, a public smear job, coming out over and over with accusations, questions. oh we are just asking a question! we think there might have been an ethics violation!

we are investigating this! they failed with kavanaugh. i think they will fail with thomas too. guest: a couple of things. we are actually not raising questions. these stories are providing answers. we probably talked to around attend employees who said justice thomas at least appears to be violating this ethics law on disclosure repeatedly. on the partisan allegation, i would encourage the caller and anyone else interested to look up my stories over the year at propublica. one of my first investigations was on violation of travel rules by a democratic congressman related to a trip in taiwan. a democratic congressman

in a swing district got led to a censure of this congressman. i have a long history of writing about the politics of both parties. host: frank is next in oceana, west virginia. caller: good morning. the way i look at it, just about everybody that we have got in congress, senators, all of them, they ain't nothing but critics. none of them will tell you the truth. as far as the american people, they are not worried about us. host: what is going on with justice thomas? is it an outlier, or is it pretty much everyone in washington is doing it? guest: it is a good question. i don't want to get inside the justice's head.

i don't know what his intentions are. in terms of other justices, other people in washington, i guess what i can say is from everything we have seen, this relationship between thomas and harlan crow is exceptionally unusual, at least with respect to what has come out publicly. to have a billionaire political donor providing officials with luxury travel that can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for over 20 years is not something that you see every day. if we find that with other justices we will write about it. host: let's talk to charlene next in bloomington, indiana. caller: could you talk a little bit about thomas's failure to disclose his wife's income.

he wrote 0 on that line. i heard she received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the heritage foundation, and he also failed to disclose that. guest: the color is right. there is a history of both problems with justice thomas into the ethics disclosure laws. the caller is referring to an episode back in 2011. there were stories in politico and the new york times. common cause was involved. justice thomas's wife ginni thomas had been employed by a number f think tanks -- number of think tanks and was drawing a salary from these organizations. there is nothing wrong with

that, but justices are supposed to report these sources of their spouses come. justice thomas did not do that. he ended up amending a number of years of special disclosure forms, and i believe at the time he's 75 not failed to disclose it because of a "misun derstanding" of the rules. this has come up over the years, and we have had no full explanation as to why. host: our next caller is in katy, texas. caller: your guest is describing, but he is not saying the words. this is another high-tech lynching of clarence thomas, like during his confirming. it is amazing.

the man has a friend for 20 years. the man is not politically connected. the man does not have any actions going before the court. these are lifetime appointees. are you going to give up your friendships, the friends that you have for life because you have an office? it is ridiculous! they do not have the ethics rules written down. clarence thomas was very clear when he said "i am going to report the gifts that he got." and i don't see anything wrong with that. congress has the ability to impeach. the legislative branch, the judicial, the executive branch all have oversight over the other. it is a three legged stool.

they all support the whole. i do not see any issues going on with clarence thomas. the left just hates the man. they will always hit the man, and that is the bottom line. have a good day. host: what do you think, justin? guest: i would make a couple factual comments. in terms of the friendship between justice thomas and harlan crow, no one is arguing that a supreme court justice should not be able to have friendships, it it also wouldn't be a question of giving up a friendship because growing thomas do not become friends until several years after learns thomas was a supreme court justice. they were not college roommates or anything like that. the caller said the rules are not written down.

that is not true. the rules are written down in the law. the rules are very clearly written down about what sort of financial transactions and gifts you have to disclose. it might sound technical but the reason for these disclosure rules, and again i would stress these are not even rules that talk about what a supreme court justice can accept, it is simply about what they have to disclose when they accept a gifts. the reason those rules are in place is so all of this can be out in the open, people can look at it, decide for themselves whether there is a potential conflict of interest, whether there is some sort of undue influence going on, and the last thing i would say is the caller said that, i believe harlan crow is not believed in politics. that is also not true.

part of the reason we are writing about this is harlan crow is extremely involved in funding political campaigns as well as organizations like the federal society, the american enterprise institute, that among other things are engaged very much in legal advocacy and advocacy of particular legal theories related to the supreme court. host: let's go to detroit next. roland is an independent. caller: i'm no fan of clarence thomas as an african-american. i think he has voted for -- against our best interests. i will ask the guest, how did you single out this guy?

is it possibly because of what he said against the gay community? host: what do you think? guest: in terms of our reporting process, my colleague in this process really only started covering the supreme court 4 or 5 months ago. we got interested in this issue have traveled by supreme court justices. justice scalia passed away on a trip to a private hunting lodge in texas. there were questions of the time about what he was doing there, who was he with?

we were reading about that and got interested in this travel issue, started looking at travel by multiple justices and frankly in terms of how the process works, we at least initially found the most newsworthy material related to justice thomas. i have only been covering the supreme court for 4 or 5 months. it takes a long time to produce these stories. we go where the facts lead us. we are very much still reporting on the court. i encourage anyone who has any information about any justice that they believe is newsworthy to get in touch. host: we talked about how a lot of democratic lawmakers have been calling for investigations and hearings. what has been the response from republican lawmakers? guest: we have not heard too much yet, i believe.

senator mcconnell was asked about it yesterday, and he did not say too much. i believe he said he thought that the chief justices could take care of any internal issues at the court. we saw senator mitt romney say that the stories were --say that if the stories were accurate, it was potentially troubling. assign interview with congressman matt gaetz, not about this specific episode, but about the larger question about whether there should be some sort of code of conduct for the supreme court as there is with lower court federal judges, and the congressman said he was open to that. ew have certainly -- qw have certain -- we have certainly seen some conservative writers at the washington journal op-ed

say there is no story here, but we linked to the primary source material when that is available. we think the facts are frankly not really in dispute here. host: james is in west point, mississippi, democrat. caller: good morning . host: go right ahead, james. caller: i have a comment i would like to make. i commend justin elliott for his investigative reporting. i think it is great that he is exposing these people who are possibly violating the law. the republican party seems to want people on the left to report on when they are in ethics violations, but it is ok when people on the right violate ethics. there are too many instances

where justice thomas has purposely failed to report things that would be considered ethical violations by the required reporting as justin has pointed out. i commend him for doing that work. i personally believe he needs to be impeached from the court. there are laws as one color pointed out where the congress can good -- one caller pointed out where the congress can do that thing. there are too many issues with his wife's involvement. he should be impeached. host: go ahead, justin. guest: we have seen a handful of members of congress call for impeachment. given the control of congress, i

do not see that happening anytime in the near future. these stories, which have been published recently in the last few weeks, and we have this hearing from the senate judiciary committee coming up may 2, so we are watching closely to see with the reaction of congress is. host: our next caller is in brandon, mississippi. hello? caller: i would like to ask justin why doesn't he go after some of the bigger fish that are doing wrong, like nancy pelosi and her husband? they are now worth well over $300 million from stock buybacks from her husband knowing what to buy because she is the one who is going to tell him what to pick and not to hold what they

can't. why are you investigating biden? reporters don't report anything about either one of those things. guest: i would say a couple of things. one my reporting partner on these things jeff kaplan, i encourage you to look up his work, he did a major investigation relating to the biden administration, the botched withdrawal of troops from afghanistan. before i was writing about the supreme court, which has only been a few months at this point, i was covering a league of tax returns of the richest people in the country from the secret irs files where we read about tax avoidance by the ultra-wealthy. you should look at those stories.

we wrote about george soros and how he was avoiding paying taxes. we wrote about michael bloomberg, another prominent democrat. we also wrote about prominent republicans. you will find a lot of examples about covering powerful democratic donors. host: denver, colorado. jean is an independent. caller: i would like to ask the gentleman how many other supreme court justices has he investigated as to what they are possible violations of ethics have been? host: you have answered that a couple of times. guest: it is a fair question. what i would say is the way we started this was looking at the whole court.

we found the most interesting material so far about justice thomas. to give folks a sense, to do stories like this took myself and 2 partners a few months to produce these stories. it is not the type of reporting where you publish -- you talk to the subjects of the stories and they tell you everything. we talked to dozens and dozens of people, service workers on harlan crow's yacht, getting flight records from the faa. we lay out a lot of our sourcing in the story. i have only covered the supreme court for a handful of months at this point, so i have not fully reported on another justices, but we are still very much reporting on the court, and they're interested in any kind

of financial entanglements between any justice, frankly and anyone in a position of influence and power like harlan crow. host: ross is in grimsley, tennessee. caller: hi. my name is roslyn. o don't really -- i don't really have a question, but more of a comment. i one to commend you first of all -- i want to commend you first of all, but i think honestly that clarence thomas has showed us all who he is a long time ago in the anita hill issue. i think this is an issue of abusive power. i think the supreme court has an issue with itself. i think all of these things need to be judged for what they're worth and he needs to be

impeached and resign his position. it has been one thing after another with him, his wife, and others. i'm a native mississippian. for the other two, i think we diametrically see the differences between the logic and not. you do not have anything to explain, justin. i am completely glad that you did this report. host: all right. we will try to get one more call in. judy is in fort wayne host: indiana -- judy is in fort wayne, indiana, republican. can you be quick? caller: i will go to the bottom line. the whole point of this is so that he will be impeached and biden can appoint a democratic justice to the supreme court. i don't care who this man is,

this justin. he chose to do this and he will find all he can to make justice thomas look bad. host: quick response? guest: i would say again that we are very actively reporting on the supreme court, myself and a whole team of reporters. if folks have information about either republican or democratic appointed justices receiving lavish gifts for many billionaires, we would like to hear about it and will write about it. host: justin elliott, pro public a reporter, thank you for joining us today. guest: thank you. host: that is it for this segment. thanks, everybody who called in. still ahead, adam goodman and just in safety join us to discuss their podcast and the political issues of the day. we will be right back -- then,

open forum where we will take your calls. you can start calling and now. we will be right back. ♪ >> it has been a half-century since the last american combat soldiers left vietnam in 1973, and saturday, april 29 watch a daylong conference looking back 50 years at the end of the vietnam war beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern, hear first-hand accounts and analysis of the war from soldiers, diplomats, and former secretary of defense chuck hagel. philip caputo, leanne hang nguyen, elizabeth becker, and

former photojournalist mark gottfried will all be there. beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern, live from george washington university on american history tv on c-span two. ♪ >> the very first president to attend the white house correspondents dinner was calvin coolidge. i had just been elected to the senate. [laughter] >> the white house correspondents dinner -- watch c-span coverage. this year's headliner is roy wood junior and president biden is expected to speak. the white house correspondents dinner, saturday, april 29.

>> order your copy of the one hundred 18th congressional directory available online at c-spanshop.org. it is your access to the -- the president -- scan the code at the right to order your copy today or go to c-spanshop.org. it is $29.95 with shipping and handling and every purchase helps to support our nonprofit operations. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. it is open or amend we are taking your calls until -- open forum and we are taking your calls until 9:00 a.m. i went to begin with a

programming note. republican hopefuls, including tim scott, and former president donald trump will speak at an ios state and freedom coalition event. you can --iowa state and freedom coalition event. you can watch at 6:30 online at c-span.org. this is from the new york times, headline " airmen shared sensitive information more broadly. a discord user distributed info to a larger group days before the beginning of the ukraine war." that was from last year. it is open forum, so let's go straight your calls."

matt is in falls church virginia. caller: something i wanted to comment on is something i have seen in the government since the bill clinton years, and that is the rally around the corrupt official by parties. i am tangentially part of the democratic party as someone who is very liberal. i am a democratic-socialist in my economic leanings, but i'm not a member of the democratic party because i do not want to have to support people who are corrupt, and listening to these callers defend people like clarence thomas who are getting a budget kickbacks from a billionaire, it is indefensible. we as a country have to stop defending these corrupt people. if nancy pelosi is corrupt, kick her out of congress. if joe biden is corrupt, kick

him out of the white house. donald trump is corrupt. the republican party should not be supporting this man. if clarence thomas is found to be corrupt, kick him out of the supreme court. no one is indispensable to our country. we are a country of 370 million people. there are other people who can be president, congressmen, and senators, and supreme court justices. we need to find less corrupt people to run our country. i don't think thomas will be charged with anything. a lot of things aren't crimes. it is not illegal for people in congress to share stock tips. it is not a crime for clarence thomas to do this illegal stuff based on the current supreme court ethics rules, which is crazy! a billionaire can buy his house

for however much overprice, and it is ok, and it is ok to go on free trips paid by a billionaire? do the rest of us get that luxury in life? i don't think so. host: rick in new orleans, independent line. caller: this is metairie. i think of that supreme court justices, federal justices when they reach the age of 65, their caseload is released by 20%. this is why they have all this time to go on elaborate vacations, because their workload is reduced at 65 years of age by federal mandate for federal judges. wouldn't you like to have your workload reduced by 60% when you reach 65?

people have to work longer past the age of retirement just to make ends meet! we never designed the government to be a privileged society. they are to be public servants in a republic. we are anointing kings and queens at the federal level, and even state-level, with these governors who have unlimited terms such as the governor in texas, who has an unlimited term to be a governor or a czar if you will. we talk about democracy -- this is not a democracy! this is an issue of exploitation and privileged exerting their long history of monarchy. they are creating anarchy in the process. host: neil is a republican in florida. hi, neil. caller: good morning. host: good morning.

caller: i'm listening to your previous caller right now -- first, i have two issues. number one, the reelection of joe biden, i do not get through on that one -- did not get through on that one. i don't think he has finished destroying america with the clouds he has put in place to do so. reelect the man and let him totally destroy this country and we will rebuild. host: all right. leon is in virginia beach, virginia, democrat. caller: good morning. i think instead of congress focusing on these herrings, republicans should be

concentrating on seeing that citizens united is invalidated. they should be talking about renewing the assault weapons ban. they should be putting in universal background checkss. they should be doing things that stop gods from going from north carolina, virginia -- guns from traveling from north carolina, to virginia, to pennsylvania, and to new york. they should find all these regulations on railroads and the environment that trump invalidated and renew them. i agree with one of the previous callers, no one is above the law whether it is congress or the

president. it is amazing to listen to people call in who -- i think they must be ignorant. they cannot be that stupid. you hear people talk about trump. the only thing trump did is he did all of these regulations. he did not do well with covid. he did not do a thing with the wall. he has corrupt cabinet people. his family, including himself, the trump hotel, his host: it is an open forum and we are taking your cause for the

next 15 minutes -- your calls for the next 15 minutes. an article from usa today about the abortion pill, it says supreme court size with the administration and hearts restrictions -- halt restrictions. the announcement came out yesterday. in decatur, georgia. good morning. caller: did you cash that -- catch that. we do not have time for the present harry's -- pleasant harry's. it is only a three-hour show per. let's cut to the chase and talk about julian assange. i called and got three months ago interviewed a lady who was

all about iran as she was on 30 minutes and she got to take a couple of calls. i do not want to get lost. i want to say i have a problem with the advertisement. it is unfiltered. the line is tied up with people talking about how much they love c-span. my complaint about the starter years ago people called in to take up air time. that is how long it has bothered me. do not take up precious airtime on c-span talking about -- i want to hear about how many body parts have been found yet. i would about the buddy buddy with the saudi arabians.

thanks for not cutting me off. people usually interrupt people who know something and then they will say you need to go to c-span.org. no i want to appear with the man's going to say next. thank you very much. host: jimmy in maine. republican. caller: good morning. i am 66 years old and i work 80 hours a week, night shift morning tonight. i've been on the 66 years and i love this country. i never fought for it. i have been blessed. i was born in the greatest time of the world. my voice is going out to everyone in this country. i used to be a democrat. i was a republican. we are in a state of shock.

one of the callers made sense, what are they watching? half other countries watching the side. half of the countries watching cnn and no one gets the truth. maybe c-span may be. my whole point is this where $32 trillion in debt. our missions -- emissions have gone down 25% is in this country. china has gone up 200%. india, 158% per were going to electric vehicles. radel and four dollars approximately four gallons we have all the oil reserves in the world. i want all of this. we need a plan. they have places in california where they still -- spill the copper out of them. there are no details. pete buttigieg told them about

17% electricity in the house, let your cart will use 90% and he says how are we going to do that if you get to this point, he said i do not know that. he is in charge of the operation. caller: you are saying to charge and vehicle will save your electric bill? caller: 17% of air conditioner is what average house uses. a magic cart will use four times that much. harvey going to -- how are we going to use electricity -- where we going to get electricity? we have all the oil in the ground. carbon makes electricity work. were we going to do with gasoline vehicles once we get rid of them? what is the plan? why don't we drill oil, clean energy -- cumis energy and get it down to one dollar, taxied a dollar and take the dollar and put infrastructure in? host: no one is saying get rid

of the gas cars. they are saying do not manufacture new ones. that is the idea behind the push for electric vehicles. caller: we do not have materials for electric batteries in this country. where getting them from china. -- we are getting them from china. when was the last time china was in any war? rescue every country fighting with everybody -- we are in every country fighting with everybody. we have to love each other. we are in trouble. china is taking over and we are sitting around pointing fingers. host: role and maryland. hi. caller: thank you. for taking my call every time i call i get cut off. we want to solve all of these problems but for some reason all

republicans want to be engaged in a cultural war. i do not see how they santas as answers for all this problems. abortion -- back to my i would like any republicans calling in to tell me exactly how many times we have traded under trauma. they try to talk her down for some reason, america's creating more jobs and. inflation is all over the world. it was supply chain problems. they make it feel like it is

just america. their hypocrisy is alarming. they do not want abortion for some reason. i do not understand. they hate the country and they -- for some reason america is doing great. thank you for taking my call. host: michael in north carolina. caller: good morning. i want to make a comment about the first topic this morning about president biden. should he run or not. i think you should. i would like to see the republican party have another shot at beating president biden in the general election in 2024. i have no idea why he should

not. i do not have a problem with his age. i think we broke the age barrier when ronald reagan many years ago. i think president biden has done a few good things but i think we have spent too much money on things that were not necessary and some of the packages that were passed. right now, i like ron desantis and i would like to see ron run against president biden. that is all i have to say. host: ed in florida, independent. caller: greetings from the free state of florida. i am a veteran. i commander in chief was john f. kennedy. john f. kennedy told our nation ask not what your country can do for you do, but what you can do for your country. my family as 178 years served in

the military. this past week, i went to two junior rotc awards at two high schools in newport, virginia. it was heartwarming. we have a future in the country. there was 160 cadets at one school and 190 cadets at another school and they all think their parents and their grandparents. this is positive. life is good. if you are good. the american legion here -- we had a party last night, typical friday night. everybody happy. my wife is playing ball was our neighbors -- with our neighbors and i'm a member of the honor guard. i'm going to stand down with literally hundreds of veterans in need. once again, there is hope for the future. host: steve in washington dc,

independent. caller: thank you for having me. everyone today is the 53rd birthday. we should be celebrating and respecting the earth amongst us. celebrate lesson on earth matters we must endure. i would like to say as director of the american state scorecard in our followers around the world that most u.s. states do not recycle their solid waste obtained per year. most u.s. states, lots of them have an increase in littering and dumping that is attributed to littering and upping. california has the best recycling rate and yet you have states like texas, new york, illinois, florida, and especially nevada, they're not recycling and repurchasing their waste. we need to take care of

ourselves. we need to quit putting waste into our landfield and public service that are in charge of maintaining public spaces -- they need to do a better job at maintaining those public spaces and freedom from waste. thank you. host: republican in baltimore, maryland. deandra. caller:deondre. thank you for having me. thank you for the americans. we need to -- i want to say trump -- i mr. trump a lot. -- i miss trump a lot. china was not buying oil from you one. the nuclear program was put on hold. no one is buying oil from iran. he kept them in the place.

in my opinion, november 20 unlike today our government was overthrown. nancy pelosi in august and there is no way we would allow that. there's no way on guys greenert we will let that happen. -- got greenert we would let that happen. in november -- and now china and iran have a great relationship. they are best friends now. it is crazy. trump makes a phone call to a president in the president would do and ask about an elected official involved in possible illegal stuff. host: you're talking to the call to ukraine's president? caller: exactly. correct. host: you said joe biden was

elected at that time, he was not an elected official. caller: former elected official. when he was vice president. when you see the documents, it is all there. you're trying to go after these the that is insignificant. everybody in america listening to him need to find a way to be well-regulated and protect our neighborhood, community, morals and principles. majority of black americans in america support trump. host: sheree in north carolina. democrat. caller: hi. i want to say thank you for c-span. i get a chance to vent. i want to say people should read their bible more. revelation says anticrisis the concrete i believe that is in power with such negative about

everything, people need to be careful and read the history. host: peter in silver spring, maryland. hello. caller: hello. how are you? thank you for c-span. i would like to respond to some of the callers who are looking into the pass and not into the future. america has always led innovation in every way possible. in 1800s, 1900s we did not know how to draw the oil. yet our government has given trillions of dollars of tax benefits to the oil companies and they were able to figure out how to do it efficiently and productively. we benefited greatly from that. for centuries. we need to do the same for electric. i challenge the caller from maine to recognize even though we may not have the ability to use solar energy now to the extent we are going to need in the future, american innovation

will continue to grow and develop and we will easily exceed everything. next, my sister is a geologist in alaska. usgs is doing everything they can to find eight rare earth minerals we need for all of our electric batteries. there in alaska. they are there. we have them. now that we know we need them, we would do the research. we will supply the rare earth minerals. we had them in our country. we have not looked for them and now we are. this all the usgs is doing. we will find the minerals we need it. we will find the rare earth. we'll figure out how to recycle our gas powered cars and we will have a bright future s on this we accept innovation must lead. that means giving the green energy companies the same tax breaks we get to the oil

companies so they have the revenue to develop their technology. host: we are out of time and thanks everybody that caught in. of "washington journal" spotlights on podcasts. adam goodman and justin sayfie join us to discuss their podcasts 13th & park and the political news of the day. we'll be right back. ♪ >> book tv returns to los angeles times festival of books live from the university of southern california featuring more than 35 authors over two days. today coverage includes discussions on slavery and viewer calls in. on sunday, our coverage continues with mark and jennifer

on the gun violence and talkshow host dennis will take your calls live on the air. watch the los angeles times festival of books live today and sunday at 1:30 p.m. eastern on book tv, c-span 2. see the full schedule visit our website. ♪ >> listening to programs on c-span c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker play c-span radio and listen to "washington journal" daily at 7 a.m. eastern, hearings and other public affairs events throughout the day and weekdays at 5 p.m. and 9 p.m. eastern cash washington today for a report of the stories of the day. this into c-span any time. so your speaker play c-span radio. c-span powered by cable. >> next week on the c-span networks the house and senate

are both in thomas house will vote on public it that limit increase bill. on thursday south korea president will address a joint meeting of congress. on wednesday president biden host a white house state dinner honoring the president of south korea. watch next week live on the c-span network. or on c-span now our free mobile app. also c-span.org for schedule information or stream video live on demand any time. c-span your unfiltered view of government. >> c-span 2024 coverage is

your receipt to the presidential election previewed watch our coverage on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network, c-span now our mobile app or anytime online as c-span.org. c-span your unfiltered view of politics. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is our spotlight on podcasts like make and i'm joined by the cohost of the podcasts 13 park -- 13 denmark, adam goodman -- 13th & park adam goodman and justin sayfie. welcome to both of you. tell us about the podcasts. when did it start and what kind of topics that you cover? guest: we are thrilled to be on c-span. we love the show. we started last fall -- i think

the world is looking for information and insight that are not overly editorialize. we decided to produce the show out of headquarters in d.c. to do this we decided on two things, to produce the show that provides insiders information to those who make decisions that affect all of us in the world and second to do a quality show. we bought a studio -- built a studio that is a mini version of 30 rock center. we produce original music for the show. we have high-powered cameras so we release not just as a podcast, but as a videocast. amazingly encouraging thing in the early days had been not just quality we get on the show, but now it is starting to turn where guests are calling us to come on

the show. whatever it is we are doing, we are doing, where doing something right. host: i remind viewers if you like to call in and you can do so on our lines by party. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can interact through text or social media. what is 13th & park referring to? guest: there an interesting story. 13th street in washington is where our office is located, where studios located. in tallahassee florida which is the first office for company we worked for, our partners, our first office is on park avenue in tallahassee which is the capital of the state of florida.

it represents the name of the two streets. where our office was and are wash -- office in washington. host: your partners, who are they and what do they do? guest: a bipartisan government relation firm. we also have offices in boston and los angeles and turkey. we have been established for over 25 years. we opened our washington dc office in 2017. represent over 500 clients in florida come across the country and in the other countries i mentioned. host: we talked earlier in the program about president biden expected to announce his bid for reelection sometime maybe early next week. what has been your reaction? guest: i think it is a smart thing. it is been speculation about whether or not the president was going to run for reelection. he has put that to rest so he

does not have to worry about some of the rest in his own party. it sets the stakes in terms of one part of the title battle to come in 2024. doing it early was probably again another message being sent from the administration that this is the person you're going to have to take on as record, etc.. republicans think they have a good chance given the recent polling numbers on the presidency but frankly, we early in the game. we do not know who is going to be in the other corner and whoever it is, whether it is a surprise or not to the viewer, is going to define or redefine a campaign against a sitting president or all the marbels as they say. host: get your point that a lot can change but that is former president trump is polling the highest. what are your thoughts on that?

a potential biden-trump rematch? guest: if you're looking for television ratings, i am not sure you can get a better match than that. it is early in the game. former president has done well from for himself in positioning for the campaign. the da coming from new york city over the last couple of months but at the same time you have a sense of openness that there could be competition within the party. i believe competition is good. certainly the governor of florida is on the scorecards right now as leading among the contenders that may pick on the former president for the nomination. this is something that americans want. we want an open and full discussion about where we are going. not where we have been about where we are going. i can assure you the former president, ron desantis, and others who are weighing in, tim

scott, nikki haley we are going to have that full discussion and i think were going to be as a party, republicans are going to be unified moving into the fall of 2024. host: what are your thoughts on possible other options to president biden? some democrats are saying he is too old, too status quo. we need somebody else. who else is out there? guest: we also had robert kennedy son junior regionally say he was going to be running in -- recently say he is going to be running. i've not heard of any other democrats thinking of getting in. if president biden were to decide, there be a few democrats who would want to run. democrats off the record and on the record respect the career of president biden. the respect what he has accomplished in office but they

will express some level of hesitation depending on the issue on this ability to fight and when a reelection campaign against a strong republican challenger. that is what most democrats will say who are involved, engaged that they support president biden yet there is a hesitation about his ability to run for reelection. host: after former president trump indictment, he salt a third key financial support -- in financial support and donations for his campaign. what is your reaction to that? do you think it will last? guest: it goes under any news is good news. your most think the former president should send a letter out across the country inviting them to indict. it is good for his poll numbers. the general judgment so far on the action seems flimsy or weak.

the case itself. he brought against a former president of the united states. there are real consequences to all of this in the office, in the strength of our democracy. when you brings up charge against a former president, it better be together, tight and right. there been so many questions raised about the nature of this indictment, maybe the motivation of this indictment. all it is done is fuel resolve of those on the republican side to pull together and for the president as he would would have seen unimaginable 10 years ago has gained from this engagement and i think the more that comes at him in this that engagement will continue in a positive direction. it is like an advert. if you had to run and advert for president trump standing tall

against those in the system wanted to -- to come back a step or two. host: sorry, go ahead. guest: i think it helped him not just with base constituency but you had people like senator romney and former florida governor jeb bush come out and criticize the actions and those are certainly not big trump-pence to say the least. i think it got trump more sympathy months are republicans and even some moderate independence as well. host: as a republican strategist i wonder what you would recommend for those that might want to take on former president trump from his other competitors. what is the best strategy? guest: have an agenda that america is thirsting for. there is a lack of offices in the country today. we need to shock the arm as a

country that's tomorrow is going to be somewhat better than today and certainly better than yesterday. anyone that can bring that kind of energy and that kind of message to the table i think we will get a ready audience. that is why nomination called a nomination fight could be wide open and interesting because people have mentioned looking at potentially contending for the nomination, like youngkin in virginia who had an upset victory when he won the gubernatorial couple years ago. nikki haley is skilled, go to her feet, better -- veteran of the trump administration. asset wallace tim scott from the same state. -- as well as tim scott from the same state. someone comes with a message that says we can do this and here are the things we can do to start pulling together again and they can do that compellingly and persuasively and credibly i

think they have a shot at getting dissemination and going all the way through the 24th campaign to the white house. host: how big of a shot do you think governor desantis has? what did you tell him -- he is widely expected to announce but he has not, what do you tell them as far as timing? guest: everyone is waiting to see whether he is going to run for president. he has done all the things you expect someone who enjoys -- runs in terms of traveling around the country, going to iowa and other parts of the country. for governor desantis he just get reelected, he just took office in january. his apparent strategy is to serve as governor, he has just been reelected. the flood legislator mean annually for -- meat -- a photo

legislator meet annually for 60 days and the legislative session will end the first week of may. the wisdom is he will jump into the race after some time before the legislative session concludes at the end of may. i think and if i were advising him the best thing he could do would be to get into the race as soon as he can after the legislative session is over, after he signs whatever bills they sent to him. right now he is in a perilous position of everyone is treating him like a candidate, president trump is treating him like a candidate. news media covering him like a candidate. he is not acting like a candidate because he has governor of florida had on -- hat on. that has been a disadvantage to him in this period before he makes the decision what we expect for him to run for president. host: saying in florida, we got this from twitter who asked,

candy guest comment on the corruption investigation and -- can the guest comment on the corruption investigation in florida? guest: i am reading the press like he is and like everyone in america. the department of justice seemingly has looked very intently at this subject. involving cover some gaze and decided it is not rise to level -- congressman gates and decided it is not rise to the level of indictment or action and i can tell you because there's a lot of politics whirling around that a particular allegation that this case was heavily investigated. it gets to the point where the department of justice said were not going to move forward. there is no rampant corruption in the state of florida. there is a lot of tremendous story. the fact that hundreds of

thousands of americans the last couple of years have been flocking from other states across the country. they love the weather. they love the feeling. they love the beaches. they love the sense of freedom they feel once they cross the border. that, i think, going back to the long -- last question, that is underneath the potential booming that could propel ron desantis to a very meaningful position of competitiveness in 24 derby. the photo story in itself i challenge america to come up with a better one than the past -- the photostory itself i challenge america to come up with a better one in the past. host: tim in wisconsin, democrat. caller: good morning. i would like to say i think it is going to be trump and biden. trump choose desantis up. florida is doing good because the billionaires are moving down there. they are kings and queens.

researchers cannot afford to rent. i would also like to say we all see what happened on january 6 when trump set on the sand when they are crashing away. they do in new york nothing. how on earth to all the republicans people in office across the south keep getting reelected? they got a poor standard of living, lowest wages, poorest health care and poorest infrastructure in the country. republicans keep getting reelected across the south. i am sick of paying for them. most of their constituents pay lizzo taxes. -- pay little taxes. there wages as half of much so they do not pay federal income taxes.

can you explain that to me? guest: thank you for the question. let me respond to this way, in terms of florida under governor desantis has had record investments and education in the environment, business, they have had tremendous role in job creation. of course, there is a real truth that all these americans, hundreds of thousands of americans in the last couple of years have decided not just a visit florida but to stay there. not to be laws is the fact that there is no state income tax. to your point of paying too much in taxes. republicans represented nationally is the alternative that will be had now. right now we are still struggling with high interest rates that have cause nearly at the grocery store, resale

counter and in jobs. that has concerned all of us. everything in politics in a way as a referendum on what is. in 2024 referendum will be nationally on president biden the democratic administration and i think right now if you look at polls, that is something that is going to be challenging for them to measure up to. about polls, people say, trumpets when the governor desantis or to santa as when they're biden in head-to-head -- it is fun to look at and talk about but it is almost meaningless right now because information, facts and decision points americans are going to have will be get to that point in a political process will determine surely where the polls are and ultimately winners and losers. host: the caller also mentioned

possible investigation around former president trump role in january 6. guest: that is what the biden currently investigating, the justice department under president biden has an extensive investigation and said that. most watchers believe that if they are going to be any charges there those will happen sooner rather than later. i do not have an idea what the timeframe means -- it is but it will be hard to defend a prosecution, justice department has policies about breaking prosecutions in an election year for the hope of not wanting to interfere in elections. i would think if charges are brought in the next six months i do not think will see it. host: marianne in pennsylvania,

democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. my question to your guest is, why are they pushing their right wing propaganda for a fascist dictatorship of the republican party because that is what the republican party has become. that's what i would like to know. why are they doing that. that is trying our democracy. -- they are destroying our democracy. guest: i will take that. i understand your feelings. i really do. you reflect a lot of americans who were unsettled about where we are and potentially where we are heading. the one thing i do not subscribe to and will not buy into is the idea that one side is good and the other side is bad. there a lot of men the woman across the aisle, democrats and republicans and independents with truman's, background and

character and trying to do the best can to move the needle. there are so many challenges out there that one thing getting in the way of that is tribalism we now see in american politics where it is almost a loyalty to has every time you say anything, every time you vote or against anything from are you with me or against me? the with and against being characterized and attached to party as opposed to country. when are we going to get back to saying we as americans are going to find a way to pull together, even if we come from different walks of life's, to do things that will make for a better future and will move the country forward? until we do that, until we reach that chokepoint we continue to go back and forth with the right attacking the left, the left

attacking the right while the center of america looking both ways and saying what is this -- when is this train going to leave the station. host: tying in illinois, independent. -- tonja in illinois, independent. caller: hi. i have been voting since 1972 and i'm proud to say i voted for every president ever one. in 2020 that was the first time i did not vote for any candidate -- either candidate at the top of the ticket. i thought, good grief we have a socialist and a populist and i thought whichever one gets there is getting there on their own because the lesser of two people is still evil. i do not think it will be between president trump -- former president trump and president biden.

i would rather see nikki haley and a joe manchin. we have good moderates on both sides and i'm tired of this extremism. i want to make my comment. thank you very much. host: justin, anything to respond? guest: live a two party system in our country unlike other countries where they have multiple party systems. what is happening is for big diverse country like the united states who only have two parties, locked up -- a lot of people are not going to be happy with the choices they get because the party system is only producing two choices. it makes it harder for people that do not -- are not well-liked by the base of each party to be the nominee. it is -- as time goes on and i believe the last caller was identified as an independent and not registered with either party.

what we see in the country is the largest group of people registering to vote for the first time our people not registering as republican or democrat. it is people registering as no party affiliation. it is a reflection of the growing body of voters do not feel at home in republican or democratic party. guest: in florida, the projection is within the next 5-10 years independents will be the number one party by registration over both republicans and democrats. republicans recently out registered democrats. that was impressive for republicans and i think it is one of the reasons governor desantis did so well in his reelection my president trump did so well in florida in 2020 but independence, and movement towards independent is very much

is in play. the only question is when that movement can produce effective candidates and winning candidates because when that happens the things we talked about earlier in the show, everyone going to their partisan corners, that starts to fray maybe we have a more approach to politics, to government, and when the most diverse countries on earth. host: richard in virginia. republican. hi. caller: my comment is you are going to find something wrong with republicans. you're going to find something wrong with democrat when they get in power. nobody is perfect. trump just talked too much. host: all right. also, adam this is what we got

via text who says, individual american voters have clearly rejected trump twice. he has never even come close to winning the popular vote. why do the podcasters think america will not reject trump leader time? -- trump the third time? guest: that is for the voters to decide. i think that the reason donald trump could be president of the united states, even after being impeached twice in of the headlines against him is there is still a tremendous amount of dissatisfaction with the way washington is run and how our leaders run the country. that is why donald trump has a chance of winning the election. he is tapping into that popular sentiment amongst all voters, not just amongst republicans.

voters are very antiestablishment, anti-washington and that is the dane donald trump i stepped into in the past. i'm not projecting -- predicting he is going to win but why is it possible he could win? that is my answer. guest: what is interesting about this is -- talking about donald trump who served for four years as president of united states. he is still commanding the outsider mantle. who else in history is able to do that? i go back to may be teddy roosevelt. you could argue to some degree reflected that. he feels like someone taking on the system most americans look at -- phil has let us down. that was the key in 2016 when he came out of nowhere when the mainstream media was talking about on the economy seems to be decent. what was happening there was a

squeeze of the middle class in america were away just for not keeping the with inflation. -- where wages were not keeping up with inflation. dallas a secret donald trump coming from nowhere against all predictions. -- that was a secret donald trump coming from nowhere against all predictions to win. that is why is why in a strange way, alternate universe the indictment that came out of new york was a reinforcement that once again the former president is taking on the system, the system being reflected by the district attorney. host: want to ask you about a previous segment we had about possible ethics violations by supreme court justice clarence thomas in cost for their being a code of ethics at the supreme court appreciate where you stand on that? guest: this all came from a

recent news report about some of the trips justice thomas has taken with a longtime friend. i do think most americans given what i just said in the last answer about the question of donald trump, anything people in washington can do whether it is a member of congress, member or presidential administration, even the supreme court to increase trust amongst the american people that decisions they are making are being made for the proper purposes and not for improper purposes. i think they should do. this is really more of an optics issue then a conflict of interest issue, however to most americans it would seem unusual that there is no even supreme court design ethics code amongst justices. that does seem odd to most americans. guest: fma, on a recent podcast

we had williams as our guests. who wrote the book on thurgood marshall and his rise to fame and his impact on the court. we talk about the pluralization of the court -- politicization of the court and when the court were made the final arbiters of the presidential campaign between al gore and george bush. but since that moment americans are starting to see the supreme court more through a political lens. that is not good. for the court, that is not good. that is not good for the country. we are hopeful for the framers of the constitution that this will be a branch of government that would call it like it is. not be -- not do influence. we have away from that.

anything the court could do to restore the confidence of americans at what they do and how they do it is transparent, open the right is good for the country. host: in north carolina, is it ellie honda -- alejandra? caller: yes ma'am. ron desantis doing pretty good in florida and i do believe he will be the republican nominee. do you think he oppose any possibilities becoming president? do you think robert f. kennedy, jr. is really running for democrat nominee or just to be a thorn in biden side? thank you. guest: great question. i would take the candy question. there was an article in the boston herald, a column. it was saying the wrong kennedy is running.

i buy into that. instead of robert kennedy, issued to be joe kennedy who made the calculation to take on ed markey in eunice -- u.s. senate race in massachusetts. a lot of people argue had he not done that he would have been in perfect position to make a national run. i think he is. i go back to this kennedy years and there was a real filling beyond politics, a real feeling of americanism. that was palpable. those were the good days where we bitterly look at the stars and we shot for the moon -- where we literally look at the stars and we shot for the moon. a kennedy on the ticket could be interesting. the right kennedy. no offense to robert kennedy but he is seen by those as somewhat on the fringe on different issues as opposed to the magic of camelot the kennedy family

represented decades ago that i think another member of the family if he were to choose to run a poster's relatives could really give joe biden a run for his money -- opposed to his relatives could really give joe biden a run for his money. host: mike, independent. caller: i'll make this simple. ron desantis needs to get a hold of trump, call him or meet with him and essay i will be your vice president -- and say i will be your vice president and we will announce it out the get go. trump can only be president for four years. desantis gives a good resume build up and then he can run for president. trump is not have to worry about desantis overshadowing him are being smarter or anything else like that because he cannot try to take them over in the second

term because trump only gets one term. it is as simple as that. guest: this is something i've heard from my friends amongst grassroots republicans who like president trump, who like governor desantis. they do not want to see these two men who they both like fight each other, campaign against each other, run negative ads against each other. this is the idea i hear pretty often. i believe that it is something that data seems like both men, president trump has filed for president and it seems like ron desantis wants to be president to by virtue of his campaign. if you go back to 1980, ronald reagan ran for park -- republican nomination, george h w bush ran for republican nomination. after george bush got out of the race, reg a slightly to be his vice president.

perhaps that could happen but i believe there might be constitution a against having the president and vice president from the same state which they both are floridians. barring that issue, perhaps it could happen later in the campaign. host: eileen in st. petersburg, florida. democrat. caller: good morning. i have listened -- i'm a registered democrat. my city is one of the bluest cities probably in the country. we celebrate trans community and game community. we have a black lives matter mural. i live downtown and i encounter every day, i spent a lot of time outside, i haven't never had one person tell me they are moving or living here because of our governor. governor desantis is the last

reason people are moving here. we have great weather. low taxes. relist estate cheap compared to other states. as far as desantis wenning, only 34% of floridians voted and that is the reason he won. our party did not have an ideal candidate. ron desantis has ruined my state with his attacks on children, attacks on teachers, using words like woke and now he is attacking the da in new york and accusing him of taking funds from george soros. every other word is woke. the man is going to crash and burn. he would never ever be president. host: let's see what our guests think. guest: thank you for the call. you live in one of the prettiest cities in america.

it is a very progressive city. this been led by progressives mayors which even before the mayor there now, there is a republican mayor, rick baker who was also very helpful in moving the city forward in creating the city as it is today. to your question about ron desantis, americans moving to florida because of the governor? i do not think americans move to almost any state because that singular reason but they are moving for a system of government. that allows for openness, more freedom, less taxes, services provided to the people of florida still rank among the best. some of the best cities in america by the rankings happen to be in the state of florida. not just the sunshine and beaches. it is being able to walk out in their house in the morning and

know they have a shot at the american dream. the final judgment on that will be the national election when you're going to see some of the people who have moved in to florida from other states from where did they go? lots of the states they are moving in from our blue states with democratic traditions and democratic governors. will they maintain that tradition as residents, citizens of photos or do they change the way they vote -- florida or do they change the way they vote because it is one of the reasons they decided to head south opposed the stay where they are? host: in new york, independent. caller: hey. i do not think trump is qualified to be president. the american people know that which is why he never acquired the popular vote. is he talking about important issues at times that other presidents do not talk about? yes, he does and i think that is

what confuses people. even hitler's and mussolini, his flesh spoke against the unemployment in general -- hitler's book against the unemployment in germany. got a look at what they are all about later on. i think that is confusing a lot of people. the media and the executive branch does not talk about certain issues that the american people want to talk about. host: what do you think? guest: this is the version of well hitler's drink water to so someone politician gets water and so they are somehow connected. i do not think that is an appropriate comparison. to compare any democratic elected to the two people that college is mentioned. but to this point, he said that trump has addressed issues of over -- that other presidents

have not address and the one i always mentioned to people is president trump policy towards china. president biden has not repealed any of trump's tariffs against china or his policies against china. that is one example. what he speaks to what the caller identified as president trump is filling the space other people are not failed even to the point democratic elected president has not reversed policies. i think that is a message to washington and the issue of immigration is another issue. president trump has race which has helped him and the issue on the border, we have more apprehensions along the southern border since joe biden became president then we have ever had in history in the united states. over a 12 month period. i think the caller was right that president trump has now on a headway and be successful

politically because he address issues politicians have not. host: we were ended there. palm close -- cohosts of the podcasts 13th & park, adam goodman and justin sayfie. gentlemen thank you for being on the program. guest: thank you. host: that of today's "washington journal" and who will be back tomorrow morning 7 a.m. eastern right here on c-span. hope you are doing -- join us then. have a great saturday. ♪