♪ host: welcome to whington journal on april 25.

two key figures in cable news found themselves out of a b. tucker colson -- tucker c arlson, and cnn's don lemon. in our first hour your tho on the removal of these ancrs what it does for them personally and their networks. for fox news viewers, 02 748-8000. for of cnn, (202) 748-. all others can call and give their ts at (202) 748-8002 . if you want to send us a tweet, you can do that -- if you want to send us a text, you can post on facebook. most of the major new papers talking about the firing of these anchors and to what led up

to yesterday's event. the new york times starts with tucker carlson. looking at it it's moving up to yesterday. at one early point mr. carlson's documentary "patriot purge" which advances the theory that january 6 was a false flag operation to discredit the former president and his political movement. lachlan murdoch was caught off guard, which led to contributors wait in protest. in march, mr. carlson edited down tens of thousands of hours of footage from the attack given to him by speaker kevin mccarthy and used them to falsely portray the rioters as people mr. carlson called mostly peaceful onlookers who peacefully ambled into the capitol. it led to a rebuke from mitch mcconnell. "he had drawn misleading and

offensive conclusions." the toll mold that -- tumolt said he was a witness against fox news when the network settled last week. the story adding late last month when his former producers file the lawsuit against fox and mr. carlson claiming the host ran a toxic workplace. the producer said in her complaint she endured an environment "where unprofessionalism reigned supreme and the staff's distaste for women infiltrated every decision." that was the analysis from the new york times concerning tucker carlson. the wall street journal looks at the events surrounding don lemon yesterday, one of the hosts of cnn's morning program. "mr. limit has been one of cnn's most recognizable faces. he joined the network in 2006 as a reporter and in 2014 began

anchoring "don lemon tonight." he switched to the morningside in november to cohost cnn's this morning. he had brief and controversial run on the morning show. he agreed to participate in formal training and when a theory in february after he made the comment about nikki haley. he and co-actors have been discussing her call to test politicians for mental competency once they are older than 75. she pushed out a fundraising email to supporters, "don lemon which is fired." adding it is a great day for women everywhere. that is some of the stories leading up to the events from yesterday, the firing of tucker carlson and don lemon. if you want to comment on either of these events, for you fox news viewers in the audience, (202) 748-8000.

if you are a cnn viewer, (202) 748-8001. all others can call at (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. if you want to post on social media, facebook is available at facebook.com/c-span. several of you posting on facebook before the start of the show. shannon writing on facebook saying "tucker will be better off without feaux news." this is a text from larry in new jersey. "i you're in for the days of walter cronkite." opinions with alternate facts are polarizing and instructive. "there must've been remarks about rupert murdoch in those emails." russ from california saying both went too far and deserved to be let go.

they were making millions. don't feel sorry for either. elvin brown saying, "fox news has been paying out for tucker's lies about dimensiona -- dominion ballots and how he wants to run for trump's vice president." posting on facebook available at facebook.com/c-span. send us a tweet if you want. text us at (202) 748-8003. cynthia in florida on the line for others, good morning. caller: good morng. i want to say i've had the best sleep i could ever have last night after finding out that tucker carlson was fired from fox. levine, if he is the next one, please fire him also. the hatred and racism, the --

against immigrants. against the president. just the hatred that that news channel spills everyday is outrageous. thank god for whoever made the decision to get rid of tucker carlson. god bless america. host: were you a big water of mr. carlson's program or did you get from what others said about him? caller: no. i would switch channels just to see the different views on msnbc, cbs, what is it? msnbc, cnn, and fox news. every time you turn the channel to fox news the hatred spews out of the television set. i am so proud that it reminds me of the day obama stood up in front of the nation and said we got him. we got tucker carlson.

thank god. host: that is cynthia giving her thoughts. the washington post adding to the background of the events concerning tucker carlson. the decision to drop carlson was made friday evening by fox corporation's ceo lachlan murdoch and fox's new ceo suzanne scott. the host's last appearance was friday and learned of a firing on a phone call -- in a phone call on monday morning. he and the team had been working on summer shows. they spoke on the condition of anonymity. the network was still running promos for mr. carlson's show on monday morning. that is some of the background when it comes to the situation of yesterday. when it comes to fox news, this is debbie's comment.

"we canceled fox nation yesterday. carlson and one of the other former hosts with the main shows we watched on fox." we set aside a life for all others besides the line for fox news and cnn viewers. david in new york on the line for others. you are next up. caller: good morning, pedro. the more significant event is the firing of tucker carlson. don lemon, his program and the ratings was not working. i think that was more of an economic decision rather than having to do with his behavior. tucker carlson promotes conspiracy theories and is a definite danger to our civic conversation. host: the comments about nikki haley and women being past their prime, you don't think that factored into the decision? caller: i'm sure that factored

into the decision. at the same time, the rollout of the new format on cnn morning was a disaster. it is just not the right role for don lemon. if you made a proper apology at the time and move forward i think is like i program would have been perfect for him. he could have gone back to that. host: david in new york. the new york times writing about don lemon. "in recent weeks cnn bookers discovered some guests did not want to appear with mr. le mon. his popularity with audiences had fallen. his abrupt exit capped -- the anchor who was happily ensconced in prime time. he drew fans for his spiky exchanges and pull no punches commentary on politics and the trump white house.

mr. limit imported the persona to cnn this morning but it was awkward when many were making breakfast and tilting -- sending children off to school." that is the new york times' take on the event of yesterday concerning don lemon. courtney and santa barbara, california, a fox news you are. your next up. caller: hi. well, it is beyond tragic. this cancel culture is completely out of control at this point. i think firing either one of these gentlemen is just a tragic mistake for our country. if anybody slips up or says the wrong thing or looks the wrong way or has the wrong opinion or a different opinion than what is acceptable to the elites then, they are canceled. it is the same thing they did to

roseann. let these people down off the cross. they are human beings, not robots, and we want them that way, deli? is this still america? host: you think the events of the dominion lawsuit where the main separator from fox? caller: no. i think his popularity is the main driver for the separation. if he wasn't so popular, so many people were not listening to him and wanting to get a different perspective or, you know, i believe there are a lot of things that need to be looked into. i think the lawsuit is more malicious -- our judiciary is out-of-control. it is completely commandeered. this has been completely politicized and weaponized and they are going after anyone who even pretends to like donald trump. he did not even like donald trump, just his popularity and

different view i think is what got him canceled. host: before you go, you identify yourself as a fox news viewer. will your viewing habits change? caller:caller: yes. i will not be watching fox. it wasn't like it was so great to begin with but he was somebody i did enjoy watching. he was passionate, intelligent, and, you know, just not fluff rag journalism like he become so used to. hearing the same opinions. why are all the people cancel to talk about russian disinformation and the dossier and this and that? there is so much journalism that is not accurate. there should be some culpability there. i don't believe that anything coming out of the judiciary these days we should really take so seriously. we see that as politicized and

corrupted and targeting people and letting actual murderers and people who are diabolical -- actual criminals walk out on the streets amongst american citizens. host: let's hear from doug in boston on the line for others. doug in boston, hello? one more time for doug. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: i am fine, thank you. go ahead. you are on the air. go ahead please. we will go to janice in california, a cnn viewer. caller: good morning. i have a couple of comments i would like to make. the first one to the first caller who called and said

hallelujah about tucker carlson being off the air. disgraceful. she talks about the fact that everything she hears on fox is hate. that is a bald-faced lie. i have listened to joe talk about trump. he's called him a thug. he's called that his name on several different occasions. don lemon, i don't know how he lasted as long as he did. he's a misogynist, arrogant, rude, disrespectful. i think it is longverdue he got fired. as for tucker carlson, he's one of the best journalist out there. one of the very best. fox will regret the move they made. i left fox after the election and what they did then with the

2016 election. their stupidity. it seems they have not learned. i know the reason tucker carlsen has been fired -- tucker carlson has been fired had to do with the democrats after he revealed the innocence of them and walking through the capitol. chuck schumer demanded that tucker be fired. that is what this is all about. host: a cnn viewer in georgia. this is bert. caller: how are you doing, pedro? host: i'm fine. go ahead. caller: you get a lot of different views when you look at -- when you watch fox news or oan news or newsmax news. then you try to watch cnn and msnbc. they have a lot of different opinions. a lot of them are good opinions

that you can take with you. a lot of them are bad opinions. your local news repeats all the bad opinions. they don't try to come up with their own opinion on a president or senator or a house of representatives. they repeat the same bad news, like here in columbus, from cbs and abc. local news is a repeat of major news. it is the same thing over and over. host: what did you think about the firing of don lemon? caller: don lemon needed to go. he was not a news person. he was a gossip person. he needs to find a gossip column to go to. i think he would do well there. people like tucker carlson and dan ball and people like that,

they are also gossip people. people have to learn between the real news and the gossip. once you can just thing was that you can hear what you want to hear. host: let's hear from josh in illinois on the line for others. caller: good morning, pedro. i want to send my thoughts and prayers out to the fox viewers. i'm not quite sure what they are going to do now that their favorite conspiracy theorists and white nationalist is not on tv. a lady called in and said a couple of calls before me talking about the democrats got tucker fired. she is the reason tucker got fired exactly because fox lost their viewers after they called

the election for joe biden. they lost their viewers. that is what tucker carlson, sean hannity and all of them started booking these guests saying dominion was reading the election -- rigging the election to get viewership back up. she's the reason fox did that. host: ok. josh in illinois. about 20 minutes or so of opinions on these firings from yesterday, tucker carlson from fox newson lemon from cnn. you can make comments onr both of you wish. for fox news vien the audience, (202) 748-8000. for those whh cnn, (202) to call on the line for others, you can do that at (202) 02. text us at (202) 748-8003. one of the other it's of news

aside from the firings yesterday was an announcement by president biden. the video about an hour or so ago planning that he's running for reelection for the white house in 2024. that was about a three minute video released on twitter. we will show you that later in the program and talk with guests about it as we proceed throughout the program today. this is from maryland, anthony on the line for others. caller: good morning to you, sir. i would like to express regarding don lemon first that the only reason i returned to watching cnn was because i expected him to be honest and noteworthy and his presentation on his night show. i never ree with him in the daytime. i think don forgot himself and thought he was a memberf the family and he was not.

they wind up firing him. it is unfortunate. i will problytart watching c-span more often now because i don't really care fowhat they are doing at cnn now. as far as tucker carlson is concerned, good riddance to bad rubbish. he was the out front man with a great light coming from the gop -- great lie coming from the gop staying the election was stolen. we know it was not stolen. fox hinted you could support that under their breath or behind-the-scenes. i think any journalist who does that probably should get out of the business of journalism and write themselves a book. i wish you a good morning and thank you for c-span. host: don lemon on his twitter feed made this announcement, "i was informed i have been terminated by cnn. i am stunned after 17 years. i thought someone in management

would have the decency to tell me directly. dealing time i was given an indication i would not continue to work. it is clear there are larger issues at play. i want to thank my colleagues and the teams i have worked with for an incredible run. they are the most talented journalists in the business and i wish them all the best." that's followed by oliver darcy who reports for cnn, including a note from the chairman and ceo. "to my cnn colleagues, cnn and don have parted ways. thank him for his contributions over 17 years. we wish him well and will be cheering him on in future endeavors." this is followed by another tweet from cnn committee case and. "don lemon's statement is inaccurate. he was offered an opportunity to meet with management released a statement on twitter." one of the people responding yesterday was nikki haley. because of the interview -- the

initial comment made by don lemon because of her campaign run and related to that, putting out her toy your feet -- twitter feed. "hold my beer. a great day for women everywhere now let's get men at a women's sports. two women everywhere, don't ever let anyone tell you your pastor prime." that his reaction yesterday concerning don lemon. gina and alexandria, virginia, a fox news viewer. you are an. caller: -- you are next. caller: i used to watch fox regularly. tucker carlson always scared me. i was afraid young men that are already angry at the world would latch onto his rhetoric. i stopped watching fox news. janine whatever her name is, i

believe she is a judge. when she started calling democrats demon rats, that really upset me. she -- if she was a judge and she is that discriminatory against somebody in a different political party, you know, they have a balanced conversation. they always have somebody for each side. that is a really good show. the rest of it -- tucker carlson is scary. thank you. host: gina from virginia. this is angela from kentucky, a cnn viewer. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: thank you. i am calling in support of don lemon, who i have watched her 17 years. i do think don lemon was set up for this fall because he was a

great reporter in the evening. when he went to mornings he did not seem to be the right person for that show. so, i'm saying cnn is going backwards. i am really not happy with cnn. not because of don lemon but just because of the new format and everything going on with the -- it seems to be not the show i would want to watch too much anymore. it's not the channel for me. host: i was going to ask if your viewing habits were going to change. caller: not so much of lemon's firing but the way -- the direction cnn is going with the new format they have now. the news reporters are standing up, walking around.

it just does not seem like a good news channel for me anymore. host: angela from kentucky giving her views on don lemon. you can add years to the mix on the best line that represents you. perhaps you watch a variety of networks. you can call on the others line. congressional reaction yesterday. conner smith robert garcia of california saying "glad to hear one of the most devices racists and destructive forces on television is off his primetime show. tucker carlson will not be missed." lauren boebert saying and all caps, "i stand with tucker carlson." that is followed by marjorie taylor greene saying, "cable news is about to be taught a powerful lesson after they fired tucker carlson. americans no longer blindly watch the news. they watch the ones with the

courage to tell the truth." more reaction throughout the course of the time together from members of congress on this topic. mike from north carolina, a fox news viewer. caller: good morning. i have been a long time watcher of fox. a lot of people said their biggest start in years ago -- star 10 years ago because he never let guests finish. that was sean hannity and laura ingraham. the main reason the lady a couple of calls ago said the main reason tucker carlson spoke the truth that always offended everybody, all the way from the manifesto of the lgbtq shooter that shot up the church, the daycare thing, school.

the immigration thing coming out. the january 6 stuff. he rubbed everybody the wrong way. the rino republicans like mitt romney and mccaskey, and the democrats, he called them out. they could not stand he was telling the truth and that is what he get rid of them. i am going to watch newsmax. as far as don lemon goes, he's like joey read on, cbc. he's a racist. he is racist against whites. the guy running for president -- yes, sir. he told him you ain't black like me. he is married to a white guy. all he does is talk about white people. as far as me, i hope fox news goes down.

they are not going to be the number one cable show. everybody that watches fox news, go to newsmax. host: that is mike from north carolina. speaking of newsmax, there was an interview with former president trump on the network yesterday in which he was asked about that is consenting tucker carlson. here is part of his response. [video] >> tucker carlson was here two weeks ago interviewing you. what you make of that? >> i'm shocked. i'm surprised. he's very talented and very high ratings. we are just learning about it almost as we speak. i said that's a big one. i don't know if it was voluntary or somebody was fired. i think tucker has been terrific. especially over the last few years. he's been terrific to me. >> there's a lot of turmoil at fox.

why would they get rid of a guy who is performing? why would they do that to the business because they are losing money right now and their stock is going down. >> i'm surprised they made a settlement. that was a case that should easily be won. they made a settlement. you have to ask them. i'm not representing them at all by any means. the tucker situation -- we don't know if it is a firing. maybe he was not given free reign. he wants free reign maybe. i was surprised by it. host: that was on newsmax yesterday. liz cheney on her twitter feed adds this. "after all of tucker's lies and defamation is about. time" maxine waters, "not sure the firing if it is related to the lies by fox news. thank you for your fight and your lawsuit.

you beat the hell out of them." we are hearing -- we will do a half-hour more. you can comment on the firing of tucker carlson for don lemon or both. fox ne vwers, (202) 748-8000 . n viewers, (202) 748-8001. if you watch multiple channels,, you can call the line for others, (202) 748-8002." stephen is calling in from olympia, washington. caller: top of the day. glad to have a chance to share my views on this taking out of tucker carlson at fox and don lemon at cnn. i don't really follow those channels. i have been an active ccn viewer for -- c-span viewer for 15 years already.

i gave up on the other channels. for some reason -- i'm not a republican or democrat or independent. i'm a native american who kinda keeps his mind open. i like to have common sense and being open minded any type of issue, whether it is policy, race, whatever it may be. host: as far as the firings, what do you think about them on their own? caller: first and foremost, with tucker carlson, i have hrd a little about him. sting to the radio in my vehicle from te to time i hear his name come out. i have a little input on tucker carlson. i, like i said, use common sense when i'm hearing things in regards to tucker carlson. i likso things and some opinions butor the most part i never really took a liking to

hi whver is doing the hiring and firing, everybody has their own opinions and their own motives, so to speak. there is something in th mix. there has to be something in the mix with people that control him being in his position. this goes with any other collective corporation that controls any type of freedom of speech. whether it is radio and so on and so forth. host: let's hear mike from maryland, a viewer of cnn. caller: hello. i'm so glad they got rid of tucker carlson. tell lies -- all he did was tell lies. the next one should go is hannity. i have been a police officer at the capitol. a lot of those people would have been shot. host: and don lemon at cnn? caller: i liked them better when

he was on at night. i followed him behind cuomo at night. host: paula is in michigan, a fox viewer. caller: morning. -- good morning. my brother sent me a text at that i want to clarify with you. as of yesterday i'm no longer watching. doesn't blackrock/vanguard own dominion? they also on fox? my brother is saying they sued themselves another get to write off hundreds of billions of dollars. i don't know if that is true or not but it seems like something i wanted to ask about. host: before you go, as far as viewing habits of fox, is that changing because of yesterday? caller: yeah. i stopped watching it. i watched fox and friends in the morning before i went to work and then tucker carlsen. that's pretty much all i watch.

rachel is getting annoying. basically i was watching the history channel or tuning into you guys instead of watching the other shows. this just sealed it for me so i will not be watching anymore. host: paula giving her thoughts. a couple of groups weighing in. this is the lincoln project putting up their tweet. "so many lies, so little time. memorial of tucker carlson and d fox news, 2009-2023." here's a picture of tucker carlsen. "he's just getting started." some of the groups reacting to that news from yesterday. woodbridge, virginia, cnn viewer. this is tom. caller: thanks again for taking my call. i stopped watching -- i have been a lifelong republican and

lifelong conservative. i turned off fox news in about 2016. i cannot watch cnn. i never could, the bottom line is america needs to start realizing these channels are 24 hour entertainment channels that are focused on either conservative or liberal values. they are not news programs. i do think america is finally starting to wake up to that. i turned on c-span years ago as a kid. i came back to it after i turned off fox news and i have never gone back. i personally did a podcast and have confronted tucker. it is not just lies, but on the extremist rhetoric that is

lately misinformed. like the reckon military is going to go door-to-door and take down conservatives. that is never going to happen but it sews a lot of fear and the american people. that kind of fear is really, really dangerous. i turned it off years ago. i am glad others are turning them off finally but they need to wake up that they are entertainment channels. they are there literally to make you feel good, whether you are in the right quadrant or the left quadrant. they are not news and that is critical. host: dave in nevada on the line for others. caller: i have a listening. i am an independent. i have got to say something. it is truly astounding. tucker carlson has forgotten more than any of your viewers will ever know.

these people -- these cnn callers have the iq of a grapefruit. that is all i have to say. host: what about the firings yesterday? caller: it wasn't the firing. it will be too deep for your viewers. they probably like living under the joe biden administration. host: you called because of this topic so try it out. caller: i see your show that is so slanted and you try to act like you are independent. you are just a bunch of ignorant democrats. host: dave, because you called and you -- he hung up. jeremy, a cnn viewer. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: i love c-span. i'm a veteran. i watch cnn a little more than fox news but i think they are all held up a corporate

interests. i'm glad tucker carlson got fired and don lemon got fired. we need to get rid of these celebrities on the news because they are out there for their own gain, not for the american people. host: that is jeremy in georgia giving us a call. he identified as a cnn viewer. you can take that line. if you're a fox news viewer, you can pick a line as well. we showed you president -- former president trump from his interview on his social website. he talked about don lemon sank "good news." "the dumbest man on has finally been fired from fake news cnn. finally question is, what took them so long?" that is from former president trump yesterday. another reaction from the washington times. this time from glenn beck.

"the coverage of departure from fox news provided the perfect media moment for glenn beck, the founder of the blaze, he offered a provocative invitation to mr. carlson after the news rang out from sea to shining sea that the popular host led the nation's leading cable news network. "we would love to have you here." "the two of us will tear it up. that would be fascinating." no answer yet from the person in question." that's in the washington times. let's go to terry in dallas. a fox news viewer. caller: on don lemon thing, i feel he was inappropriate with his colleagues. i think his firing is long

overdue. he did not treat his coanchor's properly. as a woman in business, his behavior is long out of style. that is that on cnn. they have other fine people but not don lemon. host: the tucker of -- the firing of tucker carlson? caller: tucker was a little noisy for me. you have to look at him. he's a reporter and he has deep washington ties. i want to know about this story about the lawsuit. tucker would be the one to delve into it. sometimes he gets out of hand but he's the only one covering the death of the whales off new jersey. he has peta in. he talks all kinds of reporters. i'm going to miss that. i will follow him where he goes. i'm very disappointed in fox.

i think their management sometimes does not have a good sense. i don't know what it is. something has happened at fox. it concerns me. i will probably still watch fox. i don't watch as much news anymore because of the bombardment of all the negative stories. it is hard to take sometimes. but tucker, he is one of a series of reporters that you can check in with and get a different point of view. host: is he a reporter or opinionist? caller: i ignore his opinions. i am more interested in his reporting. he does let his guests talk. i like that about him. he lets them run. host: ok. that is terry from dallas,

texas. michelle goldberg writing about tucker carlson. "justice for tucker carlson," is the headline. "he's achieved a rare trifecta of flaming out at cnn, msc and the fox -- msnbc and fox. he could join a would-be fox competitor like newsmax. that would be tremendous irony if fox, who lied -- other fox hosts have seen the relevance rapidly diminished after being deprived of the network's platform. glenn beck is performing his when he first century john birch society routine at blaze media. he speaking to a fallen niche anyone did. bill o'reilly has a podcast any string of best-selling books. he's no liquor particularly important. maybe carlson will be different.

the text messages by dominion suggest an attempted -- an awareness of his own vulnerability. a producer. "we worked hard to build that we have and now it's got." -- now it is gone." that's in the new york times this morning. georgia on the line for others. caller: good morning. i am a c-span watcher. how are you, sir? i love c-span. three quick points and i will get off the line. the caller paula raised an interesting question. blackrock, vanguard, dominion, fox. all under the same corporate umbrella? they would pay themselves and write it off. we need to look into that. number two, tucker has brought a

lot of questions and topics to the mainstream media outlets. globalization, tierney, vaccines, and a host of other things. -- tyranny. that might be a reason he's taken off the air. number three. there is a movement to destroy or distort first amendment rights of citizens of the united states. when they came for don, we said nothing. when they came for me, nobody said anything. when they come for you guys, they will be no one there to say anything. i love c-span. talk to you in 30 days. host: in texas, this is george, a fox news viewer. caller: good morning. host: you are on. caller: i'm sorry? host: you are on. caller: my theory on the fox whatever you want to call it,

the firing,, that was a bad deal. fox will be paying for it. you can tell right now through their stock options how they lost value. this proves what people thought about tucker carlson. like him or not, he did his job. he gave a lot of different viewpoints. that was, in my opinion, the viewpoint you have to see. i watch other news channels. i don't agree with the reporting a lot of times. it is what it is. we have to understand there are other viewpoints and other takes. i don't feel bad for tucker carlson. i know he will make it. he will probably be bigger. maybe a megyn kelly type of deal. he will make it.

ham and bill o'reilly, they will make it. people that want to see other -- especially representatives glorifying his firing, i'm surprised people would think that way. i don't like to see nobody let go. even don lemon. i was not a don lemon guy but even his letting go of was, to me, despicable. host: that is george in texas. he mentioned the stock-price issues. cbs reporting carlson's last show was friday. he drew 334,000 viewers in the demographic in the 8:00 p.m. slot the week ending april 20. it was more than twice the audience of his competitors at cnn and msnbc in the same hour,

and represented a bigger audience than any other fox news host. shares of fox closed 3% lower on monday. stephen north carolina, low. --caller: i wanted to comment on don lemon. don lemon has never been a journalist i cared for. i watch cnn off and ouse i want to know what's going on in aspects of the united states. the firing of don lemon was something that was despicable. don lemon had been on cnn for 14 years. he basically carried the water for cnn. i believe don lemon was an integral part of joe biden getting elected as president. basically spoke of trump and the most disparaging terms. everyone listene to him and he

has a following simy because he is a black flamboyant homosexual. he did not cart being flamboyant. as an american woman, it does not boere they fired him. i really did not like him because of theaye spoke about president trump. however, don paid his dues is what i'm tryingo y. what they did to h, i hope don took a note of e things you did on the democratic plantation. you see how you carry the water for master. now you see what they did for you. host: doug in newport news, virginia. a cnn viewer. caller: how are you doing? the firing of these two is probably not right. hopefully the american people will wake up and realize we need to start in congress and the white house firing people. they are the ones that are causing the problems in this country.

if we don't get it under control, we will be communists. host: let's talk about the firings. what did you think specifically? caller: i was not a big fan of tucker carlson but he was a good reporter. don lemon, could not stand him. at all. he should have been fired. other people have been fir doing what they did to other cohosts and the way he spoke aboutm. the bottom line is, if we don't art firing people in congress and the white house -- host: do you think tucker rlson should not have been fired? caller: i think the people would stop watching him, he would not have a job. host: ok. william is next in indiana, a fox news viewer. caller: hi. host: you are on. caller: i think fox news is a traitor. tucker carlson was an excellent reporter. don lemon, i don't give a rat's

ass about him. i'll never watch fox again. i think fox news is a traitor. tucker carlson reported the news like it was. he got a lot of broadcasters that reports at the way they want to do it, not with actual proof. i watched fox news for years. i'll never watch it again. host: you don't think tucker carlson put out whatever he put out information-wise that was not shaded with his opinion? caller: no. i don't. he put out the truth. he might've been a little shady at that but i'm not a democrat or republican, because i think both parties are crooks. they are not for america. they are for more of the big industry and other countries.

tucker, he put out the news of the way it should have been and i think fox will lose a lot of viewers now that they fired him. host: that is william in indiana. we have a few more minutes if you want to get in your thoughts on either the firing of tucker carlson from fox news or don them in an -- don lemon from cnn. if you're a fox viewer, (202) 748-8000. cnn viewers, (202) 748-8001. all others, (202) 748-8002. you can text us if you want at (202) 748-8003. on the all of his line, this is lance from philadelphia. caller: good morning, pedro. how are you, my friend? host: i'm well. thank you. caller: i was really amazed they actually fired tucker. i think between his hypocrisy from the january 6 and george

soros, they had enough of him. i met up with my group, a political group at the bar last night. it is charlie, morgan. we all agreed that tucker is on to bigger and better things. i think it is unfortunate for us though. he is kind of a nazi. host: vicki in new jersey, fox news viewer. caller: thank you for letting me on this call. tucker carlson being fired over january 6. hey, nobody leaves a trump rally until he leaves the stage. he was still talking for 19 minutes. number two. nobody at the trump rally wore a mask or a helmet, goggles, respirator, body armor, or backpack. host: how does all that related tucker carlson's firing?

caller: because he's telling everybody what's on the video, showing them. if you look at the video you will see where it all is. by the way, they were on a second recess of the debate to certify arizona. host: sean in marietta, new york, a cnn viewer. caller: good morning. tucker carlson went to court in 2021 and he told -- the lawyer had to speak for him but he told everybody he was just an entertainer. you were stupid to believe in him if you thought he was a reporter. he said he speaks in hyperbole. all these people think he tells the truth. he admitted in court he's an entertainer and he speaks in hyperbole and you were stupid if you believed him. bye. host: deborah in maryland.

hi, on the line for others. caller: hi. i watch all those channels. my husband wants to flee the room when i watch fox. i can't believe these people calling and saying tucker carlson was a reporter. he admitted in text, in emails, and deposition testimony he was not telling the truth on the air. he said one thing on the air, the exact opposite in court filings. i just don't get how these people still believe he's telling the truth to them. please don't cut me off here. he even said in a text he could not stand trump and cannot wait for him to fade away. he was saying the total opposite when he gets on the air. i think c-span bears some responsibility for this. i can tell from a lot of the colors, a note -- callers, a lot

of them don't watch anything but washington journal and fox news. fox will not tell them about the discovery material, but c-span didn't either. i called over a month ago to ask why you're not discussing this. i was told we will discuss it when there is a verdict. you can look at the segment. i am a lawyer. i knew there was never going to be a verdict. there was no way fox would let this go to trial. host: we spent the whole show after the settlement was announced. caller: after. you did not cite any of the discovery materials. these people don't even know what was in those materials. they certainly were not going to get it from fox. you should have at least read a few headlines. host: we probably read headlines considering the trial hitting up to it. we have no input into the operations of fox news. caller: it was on the front page of every paper when the discovery materials came out.

you did not read any of it. host: i don't know if that is exactly the case or not. caller: i do. when i called and complained i was told we will wait for the verdict. as i said, i'm a lawyer. anybody on your staff in the legal department should have known that. host: fox news' legal trouble is not part of washington journal. william in pennsylvania, a fox news viewer, go ahead. caller: this is all about january 6. and, donald trump. fox news got donald trump elected. that is why they are propping up ron desantis. from him talking about ukraine and the black socialists who got arrested in washington, d.c. for talking about ukraine and russia and going to jail. all you black people out there,

you should be watching that. host: william there. thank you for the calls during the course of this hour. i appreciate the input on that. coming up in the program we are going to hear from two guests joining us to talk about various topics. the first guest coming up in a few minutes is former republican legislature --legislator tim murphy. later in the program will hear from justice correspondent and columnist elie mystal to discuss legal and political news of the day. it was earlier today that president biden released a video announcing his intention to run for another term of president of the united states. here is that video. [video] ♪ >> it's fundamental as americans.

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graders in germantown, maryland. there documentary is where is my data privacy? watch all documentaries online at studentcam.org. >> healthy democracy is not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work and citizens are really engaged, a republic's rights. c-span, filtered, unbiased -- unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. the nation's capital to wherever you are, this is what democracy looks like -- c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal continues. host: our first guest this morning served in congress from 2003 to 2017, a republican from

pennsylvania. he is a psychologist and author of the book “the christ cure." tim murphy joins us. 15 years in congress and your background as a psychologist. talk about your background in treating mental illness. guest: i worked as a psychologist and also the navy, working at walter reed, where i worked on traumatic brain injuries and posttraumatic stress disorder. it was incredible to work with our heroes and see what they have gone through and watch the recovery. currently, direct a program that holds that helps first responders with ptsd. host: if you look at statistics on mental health in the u.s., an overwhelming majority of the public thinks there is a crisis. do you think that is true?

two, -- if so, how would you define that prices? guest: -- crisis. guest: it is a crisis because of the increase in the last few decades the depression and suicide. add substance abuse to that and it has soared. particularly over the last few years, that was triggered by isolation from covid. there has been a doubling of instances of depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation and a higher rate of suicide attempts among adolescents and younger adults. now we see unless suicide is topping the list is cause of death and injury among young adults. that relates to a number of things. one, a society that does not deal with avenues to help people feel better about their lives. have economic conditions,

housing issues, homelessness, crime, global issues which all affect stress levels. plus, the dissolution of so many families adds to that. also, the reduction in religion. on the other site of that, we have fewer providers to meet the needs of people. cap the counties in -- hlaf the counties in america do not have a child or adolescent psychiatrist. that is important because half cases of severe mental illness emerged by age 17 and 75% by age 24. the people involved early on with a high level of expertise. what congress is in the use is give more funds to support people, which is important.

people have themselves a lived experience, but when it comes to severe mental owners, we do not -- severe mental illness, we do not have the capacity anymore. we used to have a few hundred thousand psychiatric hospital beds in this country when the population was less than half of what it is now, but because of federal rules, hospitals are permitted to have enough beds so that in order to prevent us from having big institutions again -- we are not paying attention to the needs of people. severe mental illness -- such as schizophrenia and bipolar -- they are brain diseases, not attitude issues, not stress issues. just as we do not have limits on the number of hospital beds for alzheimer's and stroke, we should not have limits on the number of hospital beds and dates for severe mental illness. this affects only a couple million people in the u.s., but

it is an inordinate cost. i belong to the schizophrenia site courses -- featuring a psychosis alliance of america. we looked at the annual cost of summer mental illness in the u.s. and the numbers were staggering. almost $2 billion in one year if you include direct treatment cost and indirect costs -- other chronic illnesses -- kerrville justice and homelessness, we do not even know of -- criminal justice and homelessness, we do not even know of all the answers. help any cases are there -- how many cases are there? what do we need to do? we need to put more funds into a wide range of things -- supportive housing, community treatments. a wide range of services to help

people with severe and moderate levels of mental illness. we do not have these facilities. we do not have enough people. a society that continues to pound young adults with overwhelming stress. these things have got to change culturally, medically, and psychologically. host: our guest is with us until 8:45. if you want to ask questions, eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. mental health professionals, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. your book, putin -- your book, “the christ cure," what prompted you to write it? guest: i have seen difficulties.

instead of recognizing that when it comes to dealing with posttraumatic stress -- 70% of our population at sometime will face a life-threatening event to themselves or a close loved one -- 20% have lingering symptoms. 10% have symptoms of posttraumatic stress disorder. this occludes relationship problems, hypervigilance, body all the time with stress responses. certainly know that talk therapy can be beneficial to people. we also know medication may be helpful, but medication can change how you feel but it does not change how you think. many with post-traumatic stress or other issues related to,, we do not want to admit it. we do not want to get help. we think the depression and anxiety happen to someone else. what do people do?

they seek out self-medication, alcohol, drugs. in the numbers are struggling to help someone. a lot of research tells us that those who have a strong faith or religious affiliation tend to do better in the long run. stacy hope and purpose related to the religion and faith. and struggling -- they seek hope and purpose related to religion and faith. and struggling with these things, i recognize the writings of the apostle paul, who has written more than half of the new testament. he faced so many dramatic events -- given 39 lashes five times, stoned and left for dead, run out of town over and over again, bitten by a state -- by a snake

-- any of those events should have left him with trauma, but he was not. i look for a book to say, what was it about him? what gave him the strength to have tremendous resistance before his struggles? resilience, endurance, persistence, what help him have hope and forgiveness? what gives him his renewal? he says be transformed by the renewal of the mind. the answer for him was his face. i look for a book about that. there was not one. i wrote this book “the christ cure" about doing with tragedy. it takes biblical and contemporary stories. people i have known, the struggles they have had. what is remarkable about them is these are folks who came up stronger it not despite their traumas but because of them. help they incorporate -- how

they incorporated it into their lives. there is a lot of science-based information about what we can do in our own lives, even things such as fitness, sleep, diet. but it is a resource. i call it a handbook for the broken and the people who love them. my encouragement is not just to read it yourself, but a lot of family members feel helpless when we see somebody struggling and this is a guy. host: -- a guide. host: and it also highlights your humbling experiences. can you elaborate? guest: after years of politics and growing up with an alcoholic father, and dealing with the struggles, i have dealt with depression. you can hide that, looked charming, happy on the outside but also have a lot of self-doubt. in my own life, i tried to do it

that with one more achievement, publish one more article or book, run for office, have my practice, we look at my resume -- and it is great, i have been a senator, congressman, author -- but i had to do more. what i found i was doing was winning the world and losing my soul and in this case being estranged from my family. i had to admit it is time to leave politics, get my life back. it is time to get on my knees and pray for hope and forgiveness and get my life back in order. that is what i did. i should these issues in a humble way. this is a painful book to write, but a great book to read. this is no matter what happened to us, whether some random event , a storm, a tornado or

something we inflict on ourselves,, israel -- trauma is real. but we cannot heal from it when we put shame upon ourselves. host: to clarify, as far as your experiences in congress and coming in, it was reported had impregnated your mistress and encouraged her to have an abortion. is that true? guest: my life is moving forward. this is my private life. i am not answering that. things that contributed to my pain were think i did when my marriage was a mess. when they did was but many people do. they want to hammer away on their past. when we have been through trauma , we do that enough ourselves. we go over our instances hundreds of thousands of times.

the strong physical response, it changes the brain architecture and crushes us to our soul, but what we need to do -- but with the media wants to do is tell us the gossip, tell us what happened during these storms instead of looking at the strength of human beings to resolve their issues and move forward. that is what i encourage people to do. find ways to find forgiveness in yourselves, ask for forgiveness from those you have hurt and from god and rebuild your life. that is what we have to do, not state mired in this continued talk of the chains of the past. that is what i want people to do and that is what i am doing. host: this hear from erin in altoona, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for coming on. i appreciate your service.

i have a letter of mental health and it -- a lot mental health and addiction in my family. i look forward to reading your book, but my main question is why do you think we are the only country in the world that does not provide universal health care? the thing that instead of money going to ukraine, it could fund health care and make us all better? guest: the vision one event -- let me mention one thing that has to do with mental health. we do not provide enough funding. we had mental health providers. not only do we not provide enough beds, but we do not provide enough insurance. congress has passed in the past mental health parity. congress did have for it while an aspect that allowed martelly video session.

we need to bring that back -- more tele-video sessions. we need to remember. we need to make sure there is not a cap unfriending to mental health care and do something else which is important and that is integrate mental health and physical care. in a primary care office, we know that a major contributor to most medical problems is the inflammation that comes with stress. stress in our lives -- and i am not just talking a bad day but stress with job and marriage and family issues and finances -- it builds up so much we end up with higher levels of stress hormones. cap causes a number of physical bonuses and lowers -- that causes a number of physical illnesses and lowers our immune response. just deal with this in the primary care office by having providers who integrate mental health care in the same office.

we could save hundreds of billions of dollars in medical costs every year. that means that insurance companies and congress need to pass things to push for that integrated care model. that is something i try to do when we were working on aspects of widespread health care. it would have made a major difference in what we do in health care. host: rick is in maryland. caller: hi, tim murray. a friend of mine in month ago had a massive stroke. he seemed ok, but has a real problem getting his words to his mouth. i have seen this in other friends who have had strokes. i came across an article by a psychologist.

he contends that -- can help with ptsd, stroke issues, and many other things. i would like to know your opinion on this. guest: that has, as a tissue fort -- an issue for veterans using callista jenny and -- hallucinogens. their memories are so troublesome. the hope is these experiences may help our i am not a supporter of that but some are. but it does not change the memories. here's what happens to trauma. the first thing with trauma is that there is any event we cannot change. we end up with a memory of where we have vivid details.

that is there, but the second level weekend do something about. that is the videotape replay we run through in our buys hundreds of thousands of times. this reinforces those -- the brain. we cannot get out of it. it sets off the amygdala, the fight or flight center of the brain. it sets off the stress response. think of it like a smoke detector. the smoke detector cannot tell the difference between the house being on fire and a birthday candle. celerity, the amygdala does not differentiate an actual threatening event and the memory of one. the idea is to get back to what is threatening you now. let's talk out loud about that. in dealing with primary issues about trauma, a couple of those

major issues, people do not yield much hope for the world because they are feeling stress, anxiety, depression. the other parts of this are that to be able to -- to say i feel guilt instead of shame. delta saying i made a mistake. chambers sang action that be alive. -- shame is saying i should not be alive. guilt is saying i made a mistake. then go for forgiveness. god forgives, others might, i must. if we hold out for the forgiveness of others, it ain't going to happen. sometimes it does. people will still want to hold a grudge. when we hold a grudge, we are maintaining this tremendous stress sponsor cycle.

ridges do not help anybody. living a life of hate does not help anybody. what does help is forgiveness to ourselves. that makes a massive difference, calms the system, and help store the healing process. that is the not so secret secret of where we can go. host: later on this week, there will be workn the senate side on the bill for the v.a. to ndt research on medical cannabis and how it might impact veterans with chronic pain or ptsd. look for that this week. mr. murphy, what do you think about john fetterman in the va hospital getting treatment for depression and coming back to congress? what is that say about the state of mental health in the u.s.? guest: he went to walter reed it is a fine institution.

i wish him well. certainly, i cannot comment on him. i do not know him or his condition, but what is important is that people recognize it when you have issues in your life, get help. we know that stroke victims have a higher incidence of depression for lots of reasons, the information reasons -- inflammation reasons, but when we lose an important function -- walk talk, listen, see. that is overwhelming to the whole system. we recognize that something terrible is wrong and i am not the person i was. we have a sense of being broken, broken physically in case of stroke but mentally and spiritually in the case of having harm happened to our lives. i applaud him for getting help and wish him well. this is a model for everyone. other members of congress have dealt with oppression and anxiety people in every walk of

life who do this. if we deny it exists, we delay treatment. the primary person blocking that is ourselves. people go to a friend and talk. that is good. they can go to professionals. that is helpful. they can go to clergy and that is helpful, too. recognizing we do not have to do this alone. during college, we were isolated. that was -- during tobit, we were isolated. that was a contributor to this. but there was love between people and that is an important part of the healing process. host: does it say anything about the taboo of mental health or admitting you have a problem? guest: it does in the sense we should not have this taboo. it is a disease like others. in the case of severe mental illness such as schizophrenia and bipolar, part of the problem is the person is not aware that they have a problem.

this is a major factor of so many are not getting help. the condition cannot have that is a person cannot put a name to it. almost 40% or more are unaware that they have an illness. that means that somebody in the middle of a schizophrenic crisis , perhaps hallucinating, delusional, maybe violent, when the police as a mouse arrives, if you do not handle that person correctly in terms of working to calm them down, sometimes even agreeing with their delusions to do so, that person may relive -- resist going to the hospital. they may temporarily cooperate but they will not follow up with treatment or take their medication. this step because they think they are better. -- they stop because they think they are better.

sometimes, if a person is gravely ill -- and that is the key word, gravely -- you can say this is a person who needs to get on medication and have a team working with them. the person has a disability, some say let's not force them. but here is the double standard. if you see grandma walking in the snow in january at 3:00 a.m. and she is picked up by an ambulance and they say, what is going on and she says i have to get to school, my homework is due, we say you have a brain disease. you need treatment. but as a society, we do not treat many with mental illness well. perhaps a third or half of those who are on the streets have a beer mental -- half severe mental illness or addiction problems. we say it them go. -- we say let them go.

that is such an un-empathetic approach. do you think people want to live in squalor? no. but we walked by -- walk right by and say that is the best they can do. in the bible, it says commit you walk past those who are imprisoned or hungry and you are doing the same to me. we need to understand that these folks need help, supportive housing where someone makes sure they take their medication, where they are not abandoned. this is where mental illness needs more laws to help. we need ways parents can provide information. we need to provide more research on the cost and treatments for mental illness. host: let us hear from doris in georgia. caller: i wish we could have had these discussions 40 years ago.

i was married to a man who had been in the army during the korean war. he was in the area where they were overrun, using heavy artillery. they were under fire for 72 hours until the guns stopped firing. they were overrun. he and four other men managed to get out. horrible situation. the way, -- anyway, his commanding officer wound up in the same place he was in. they had gone so insane they had to put him in a cage like an animal.

my husband was assigned to escort him back to the states. at that time, my husband never would admit there was anything wrong with him. but after we were married just three months, observing some of his destructive behavior and hairtrigger temper, his suspicion, he was always tense and tight, nothing pleased him, it began to wear on me. i knew there was something wrong. i just did not know what ptsd was. i did not know what shellshocked was. but now that i have look back on our, -- back on it, i understand that is what he was suffering from. guest: what a powerful story. you described a perfectly. we all have a breaking point.

certainly, the horrors of war try and test even the strongest of men and women. as way for our veterans, he need to make sure -- that is why for our veterans, we need to make sure we have a wide range of services. most veterans do not go to dba -- to the v.a. 11 people live too far away. -- a lot of people live too far away. i am a big believer that what we ought to start doing for people with mental disorders who have served, you open that two other providers around the country to let them help you veterans. i -- help the veterans. i might say this. some veterans think of taking their own lives or passive

suicide, not wanting to weigh cap or see the next day. -- not wanting to wake up or see the next day. but in 20, the desk in between 19, they stopped counting suicides among national regard and reserve. he look at the statistics, suddenly, there is a decline in suicides among veterans. that is a life. they just stopped counting -- that is a lie. they just stopped counting. i served 8 years in the navy reserve. a lot of others served in the guard, but here are the perversions of the statistics. the highest suicide rates are among army national guard. the person was never deployed but they still serve. they have the highest rates because we serve, have another job, have access to guns, a lot

of stressors. i want the v.a. to start counting them again, stop manipulating statistics, stop saying we will count guard and reserve as second-class citizens. the other thing is to make sure every servicemember has access to a wide range of services, not just v.a. hospitals. courage and fortitude, union men, were a big part of your lives. any recognizer recognize your husband struggles. i -- and you recognize your husband struggles. the worst day of your life is every day for paramedics and front-line workers. everybody who is dealt with, and tragedy, you may not recognize it yourself, but the family members who do recognize it,

that is why i wrote this book, the people who are broken and those who love it, does love them, we all need to provide support. i'm glad you helped your husband to his struggles. host: this is michael in new york. guest: i would like to know how you justify writing this book and making money off of it and where are the prophets going? guest: i am not making much money off the book. if somebody buys it for five dollars, i get one dollar. i use the money to support work with veterans and first responders. similarly, whatever job you have, i do not question what you do with your money. i looked at it like this.

this book took me thousands of hours to write. it is there to help other people heal in their lives. i hope it is a great resource for people in their lives. that is what it is about. host: the book is called “the christ cure." tim murphy joins us, former member of congress and a psychologist. when comes to the bipartisan safer communities t,t set aside money for school progr $1 billion over five years to help with the help -- mental healces and grants to increase the number of providers. what do you think about starting at the school level? guest: the mental health caucus, when i was co-chair, the big issue was wanting to give more

money to providers in schools. it depends who it is. school counselors are not the ones who do this. and it's counselors are the ones who do this. they help with learning problems and issues in schools. they have resources in schools where people are trained to help children with early signs of mental illness. you need professionals. we cannot leave that up to teachers and we cannot just be dealing with school problems by having more police and metal detectors. this needs to be done in integration with family and medical providers. and you cannot treat children without telling the parents. when children have problems, parents are a primary source in helping them. it is good to provide funds, that it depends on who and how and integrating family. host: tim is in louisiana. caller: thank you for taking my call.

document become a great to have you on -- dr. murphy, great to have you on. i am a psychiatry resident here in louisiana. i called in. i felt compelled. some patients that we have are deeply -- have deeply held religious beliefs and could possibly benefit from faith in perforated into their care -- incorporated into their care, that it can be dangerous to imply that the only way to mental wellness or the best way is through christ. i see that as a dangerous suggestion.

i also feel that any conversation about chronic mental illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar or the psychosis or any chronic, debilitating mental illness, is going to be severely impacted by material conditions, mainly the capacity for housing, the ability to have a place to lay your head at night. we should not pretend we can treat mental health without treating material conditions. host: let our guest respond. guest: i did not say that religion was the only way to help people. it is particularly with people -- for people with trauma

because it deals with issues of hope and faith. they are important parts of the healing process, but there are other parts. thank you for being a psychiatrist. as a test field that it is a tough field. but medicine is not the only answer. when i talk to veterans who have gone to the v.a., i remember a marine who was struggling with this. when i went to his house, i saw dozens of bottles of medication. none were open. he was not getting counseling. he was not getting support. medication is not the only answer. housing, you bring up an important point. it is not just saying here is a voucher. find a place. it is providing supportive housing for those who are unable to care for themselves. it is also somebody making sure

you are making appointments and taking medication. we do not have to do this for everyone, but certainly those with a severe mental illness who are unaware of their conditions, it helps to have services. there are a lot of people in this nation with the heart to want to help -- whether they are from various religions or faith or various organizations. we need to provide mechanisms with them. but most psychiatrists and psychologists are not taught about this. intact, we are told to stay out of religion and politics. but they talk about politics all the time for that we should learn about it. my book is not just for those who are broken, but also counselors who want to understand that the majority of people in counseling who have a religion what their counselor to talk about it.

when your counselor is ignorant of these issues, they ought to learn about them. many conventions provided by state ecological associations and others will not have a single presentation about this for years. they will not talk about it. similarly, about 40% of people with a serious mental issue are clergy but only about 10% of clergy think they feel comfortable knowing what to do. we ought to train them on these issues. the need to understand that is not just saying you need to read this passage of the bible. that is not it. god gave us a whole host of people to work on this trip it is integrating everything -- medical, psychological, social, nutrition. that is how we help people move forward with healing, particularly those with trauma

-- how we help people. host: what do you think about -- guest: i agree with the surgeon general that children under 13 should not be in your social media. it is a time when they are overly concerned about. opinions. they -- overly concerned about peer opinions. there is a reason why we recognize that you cannot drive into your 16, vote until you are 18 the brain is not fully developed. until age 25, the brain responds more emotionally and overrides reason and foresight. yet teenagers cannot think and problem solve and calm situations. what happens when under stress or put into situations where they are tempted, they are not thinking so well.

a lot of adults also do not think so well. the issue is that social media, kids get overly dependent upon it, 32nd videos on tiktok for the opinions of other people. the issue is that when we see increases of depression and anxiety and youth turning toward social media, i would say, how is that working for you? it is not. the statistics bear out that with an increase in depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation and substance abuse that they need more than that. they need more adults in their lives. children who do not have a propensity toward violence and shooting, among those who are more violent, they do not have a significant adult in their life. just having one mentor who guides them makes a huge impact

on kids and gives them the more so than going to social media. host: tom is in arizona. caller: i am a disabled veteran. i have ptsd. i have been in counseling for 6 years with an outside counselor. due to covid, they sent me outside. they are saying they are going to cut me off. i have a letter from dba. she is -- a letter from the v.a. she is the director of psychology at the phoenix v.a.. it states that the v.a. authorizes six months of psychotherapy with an option to extend for another six months

under where circumstances -- under rare circumstances. the v.a. is time people they are helping the veterans and restricting us. i went 30 years without therapy from the v.a. now they are shutting me off from the one thing that was helping keep me stable. i think they are not being honest about how they are treating veterans. guest: thank you for your service. what you gave the country and continue to get the country in terms of the impact upon the. you are -- upon you. you are a tragic example of how paperwork limits folks. you get six months really means

we cannot help you. but they ought to pay for you to go somewhere else to find new treatment. for veterans and others, it is not just a matter of counseling but also fitness, diet. i work with a man named john paul, former super bowl champion. he runs a fitness program that involves a lot of talents and coordination. that stimulates brain growth and healing. so also look at those things. but here, somebody is saying we cannot help so we will limit you. they would not do that for cancer. that would not do that for your hearing aids. they would not do that for a person who has knee problems. that is a terrible response but a great example of what we do with mental health. a sad state of affairs. it costs more to not care and to care.

the statistic i gave the beginning of the show, $282 for year. hope you can find the care and i hope that the d.a. pays. -- the v.a. pays. my website is drtimmurphy.com. you can connect with me there. i also do podcasts. host: the guest's book is called “the christ cure."psychologist, author , former member of congress tim murphy joining us for this conversation. coming up later on, we will hear from elie mystal. but first, open forums.

(202) 748-8001 four republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when we come back. >> live sunday, may 7, ok howard will be our guest on in-depth to take your calls on goveme and legal reform in america. mr. howard has written the collse of the common and the death of common sense. his latest book is about the public sector union. join us with philip k howard on sunday, may 7. >> c-span's campaign 2024 coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the

candidates on the campaign trail with meat and greets speeches, events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on c-span network, c-span now, or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> order your copy of the 118th rational directory now available at c-spanshop.org. it has important information on congressional committees, the president's cabinet, federal agencies, and state governors. skin coat in the right to order your copy today -- scan the code at the right to order your copy today. >> washington journal continues. host: our texting line is (202)

748-8003. if you want to participate in this forum, perhaps you want to call or text us concerning the announcement earlier today from president biden seeking another term for the oval office. here is the announcement video. ♪ [video] pres. biden: personal freedom is fundamental to who we are. there is nothing more fundamental or sacred. that is what i have worked on, fighting for our democracy. protecting our rights, to make sure everybody is treated equally and given a fair shot at making it. all around the country, maga extremists are lining up to take on rock freedoms, cutting social

security while cutting taxes for the wealthy, dictating what health care decisions women can make, banning the next, all while making it more difficult for you -- books, all about making it more difficult for you to vote. when i ran four years ago, i said it was a battle for the soul of america. we are still in that. the question we face is whether in the years ahead, we have more freedom or less, more rights or fewer? this is not a time to be complacent. that is why i am running for reelection. ♪ because i know america i know we are good and decent people. i know we still believe in honesty, respect, treating each other is dignity.

we are a nation where we give hate no safe harbor. everyone should be given a fair shot to succeed. every generation of americans has faced instability and had to defend democracy. and up for our personal freedom, the right to vote, and our civil rights. this is our moment. ♪ >> we the people. pres. biden: i am joe biden.

let's finish this job. i know we can because this is the united states of america. there is nothing we cannot do. host: that is the announcement earlier from earlier this morning. at donald j. trump.com, he response to the announcement by saying with such a failed presidency, it is almost inconceivable biden would even think of running. in the last election, they cheated, but i promise you that when i stand on that debate stage, it will be radical democrats worst nightmare. there has never been a record as bad as they have. there has never been a greater contrast between two administrations -- hours being great and there's being a failure. that is part of a longer statement from former president trump.

let us start with pittsburgh, sarah. caller: i called in to speak with your last guest, who was sharing a lot of misinformation. i am a therapist. i specialize in trauma and addiction. i am sorry for the last caller can what he is going through. all veterans should be taken care of. as far as a number of things he said, bringing religion into it when that is not requested is detrimental to treatment. there are always some people who prefer faith-based treatment for trauma, addiction or another issue, but that is optional. to do otherwise is dangerous and

inaccurate. also, there are other treatments that are more successful. as far as, goes, emdr -- as far as trauma goes, emdr. they talked about the mushrooms earlier. he said that medication does that make you think differently, but antipsychotics literally make you think differently. i do not know how much faith to put in some so hypocritical. host: let's go to marcus in chicago, democrats line. caller: good morning. i missed the last guest. i wanted to talk about something here. car marks one set -- karl marx

once said religion was the opium of the masses. what was meant by that? six or seven days a week, workers in many countries are ground to dust working very hard every day. they seek refuge in churches, religion. it makes sense. when you give in a city, you have churches in every corner. that is readily available. what is not readily available to most americans is a clinic, a hospital that is affordable. i wanted to ask the congressperson whether or not he believes we should move to a nationalized health care system that we can provide everybody in

this country with, readily accessible mental, behavioral and physical health care. host: let's go to ralph's in missouri, republican line. caller: the last guest lost credibility by not answering the question about his past. it is clearly known about his affair and urging her to get an abortion. what is lacking is truth in doctrine. where does this news come from? i wanted to ask your guest about salvation. christ is salvation. truth in doctrine was lost a long time ago. politicians now are mostly entertainers.

they are like tucker carlson. they keep people uninformed and have people like your past callers. but that is truth in doctrine which god gave us. the bible is greatly divided between -- rightly divided between israel and gentiles. that is where we start today. the bible says truth in doctrine. host: let's go to growth in washington, d.c., independent line. caller: i just heard your joe biden commercial. i am a true independent. i think both parties suck. but joe biden, the man is fomenting hate. he says things like all these

magas are going to take away democracy. i thought this man give a speech in front of a box congregation -- a black congregation. talk about spreading hate. he says if you vote for republicans, they will put black people back in chains. i cannot believe that came out of that man's mouth. he is talking about freedom and democracy and if you do not vote for me, you will be back in chains. what kind of unifying present is that? that kind of speech is inflammatory and hateful. host: the new york times reporting that susan rice is planning on stepping down next month after overseeing some of the most polarizing issues, including immigration, gun control, and student loan

relief. the white house making that announcement monday. ms. rice, who previously served under obama, is leaving the white house and the biden administration prepares to lift the trumpet era issue -- from our order allowing border agents to explore migrants. caller: good morning. tim scott and nikki haley are not serious about running for president. both are just doing this to siphon votes from biden. trump is just going to say things because that is what he does. they supported him when they supported him. they are not fears about running for president. they just want to siphon votes from biden so trump can win.

scott, haley, get serious about running. host: independent line, portland, oregon, al. caller: that commercial, biden shows it is a wonderful and lovely utopia. that is the most fake commercial i ever see. this man has been the most divisive in history. i do not know how everything can be so wonderful economy. people are hurting. they had two years of total control. they could've reform social security. they did not. they are obsessed with the, which is on the bottom list of americans' concerns. the economy is the most important thing right now with

inflation. i think this man is an unfit individual for the white house. he is not mentally competent to serve. i went like tca different president. -- i would like host: president biden already winning the elections and those are the ai headlines. new video the republican national committee put out in response to the president bidens campaign launch video. here is that video from the rnc. >> we cannot call the 2024 race for joe biden. this morning, and embolden force invades taiwan. >> financial markets are in freefall as 500 regional banks have shuttered their doors.

order agents were overrun by a surge of 80,000 illegals yesterday. >> escalating crime and financial crisis. who is in charge here? it feels like the train is coming off the tracks. let's hear from host: mary in virginia, democrats line. caller: good morning. thank you for having me. i'm really glad you are on the air. i am calling because the gentleman, he had a very about just a lot of valid points and things that worried me. i was diagnosed bipolar 45 years ago and i have been able to make use of the services board in virginia the entire time.

i wanted to find at how much that cost. it might be more public that we have the pay according to your income facilities that provide therapy -- will they you stupid you have to find your own therapist but they do provide psychological care and bipartisan care and medication depending upon your income. thank you, i just wanted to say that. host: mary in virginia, thank you. let's hear from susan in south carolina, republican line. you're going to have to turn down your television, please. caller: i'm sorry. i'm just calling about the way

biden announced his presidency. is that the way he's going to run his campaign and do commercials on tv? i'm sorry, but i doubt he will make it to that because when they get all the evidence that they have on him, he will be lucky if he can run for dogcatcher. the way he calls republicans maga, he makes it sound like it's people. i think we need to come up with a name so they will be live tarred democrats. host: ok, the wall street journal reporting on a trial for some of those involved in the january 6 -- it quotes the

closing arguments saying -- that is in the wall street journal if you want to check it out. let's hear from john in amsterdam, new york, democrats line. caller: i'm going to vote for donald trump again. i believe that tucker carlsen will end up on newsmax.

host: why do you think that? caller: because fox news took over bill o'reilly and and tucker carlsen will be good for that station and i think they are looking forward to getting him. newsmax and c-span, i enjoy both of them but i think newsmax will pick up tucker carlsen but people look and say they make a lot of money. some people say i'm not really upset but i used to like fox when they had bill o'reilly on there. he's very limited on newsmax. i think tucker carlsen will have a good show over there if they take him and i think they will take him over there. host: abc reporting the jury selection is set to begin today

in the defamation battery case brought on by former -- alleging the donald trump de fame jirga and social posts. she added a charge of battery under a recently adopted new york law. that's from abc if you want to look at that story. joe in tallahassee, florida, independent line. caller: thank you, good morning and i watch most of's c-span today and i thought it was very good and informative. there was something that always gets me. i was raised in new york city in the 1950's and early 60's and we had three major news networks,

abc, nbc and cbs. that's when you got the news, in the evening and late at night. now, we have so many news programs, it's more political than anything else. they all take a different political stance. i think we should be looking for news medium that will give us the news and not so much worry about the ratings they are getting. we are all part of a corporate structure. i think that's one of the biggest problems. even today, i am a born-again believer and networks deal with the christian principles but in many cases, you're not getting the full news. i think this is one of the discouraging things. i hope that one day washington journal on c-span can have a one or two hour segment once per week on all the commentators who sit there and answer the phone

calls and everything. they sit down and a roundtable discussion on all the news that took place that week. it would be informative, interesting and people would be a lot more enlightened at some of things they hear on the other networks. that's all i have to say, thank you very much. host: clay in metairie, louisiana, republican line is next. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. i am calling in reference to president biden's announcement for president. it's that videotape but i wish he had done it in person so we can watch this man painfully stumbled through his pronunciations and so forth. personally, i am 10 years older than president biden and i'm still playing a little golf. to see this man enunciate on television, it's really painful.

i'd like to comment compared with president roosevelt's fourth term. he should never have taken the fourth term, it was paid for and it put this country into service. host: that is clay in louisiana, about five more minutes in this open forum. you can text us or get in on the phone lines. you can continue to comment on facebook or our twitter page. ed in utah, democrats line, hi. caller: good morning, i find it curious that so many people on the right ignore the obvious, criminal activity of the former president, climate change. it's like they cannot open their

eyes and see what's in front of their faces. they worry more about everybody's gotta be like them or it's not right. i just find it very despondent the way this country is going with so many people like that. i find it really disturbing, that's all i had to say. host: this is carol in west virginia, independent line. caller: good morning. what i find funny is both sides, people from both sides, democrats and republicans point fingers and this one does this. the whole swamp up there is corrupt. trump is not the only one who was corrupt. biden is not the only one who is corrupt. they are all corrupt. it depends on what side you listen to. as far as biden goes, i'm

wondering if they will keep him in the white house like they did in the basement and not let him interact with regular people. they have people they choose but regular people, the public. please don't cut me off, if i'm going to vote for a president, i would like for the president or the person i am going to vote for to be able to go out into the public. he has yet to go to ohio and say anything to those people. host: ok, carolyn must virginia. 3:30 p.m. this afternoon, a discussion on the president's 2020 for budget request, specifically the u.s. -- the capitol police chief joins the senate sergeant had earned to testify on the president's

budget reqst for security on the capitol grounds. this wilbe held by the senate appropriations subcommittee at 3:30 p.m. on c-span3 and you can watch on c-span now and c-span.org and if you are interested in matters of debt limit, the house rules committee will begin the process of considering legislatiothat raises the debt limit out capping discretionary spending for the next fiscal year. that house rules committee will be live. you can also follow along a c-span.org. patty from kentucky, republican line. caller: i'm calling to agree with the man that said america was based on biblical principles and everyone needs to get into the word because what they are doing is you're going to make this a chinese company and have your money go somewhere else to them. we need to get back to god.

we need god. if you read your bible, everything i'm telling you -- who do you think did the first rain? it was god with noah and the ark. god is controlling the weather. there is nobody else that can control the weather. god created everything. host: let's hear from will in atlanta, georgia, last call on her independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. people need to understand that america's literally the promised land, the new israel of the bible. we are a gentile nation. god is our named king. thomas jefferson enunciated that in the declaration of independence. god is our foundation.

biden is demonic. his cult practices ritual child sodomy. host: that will be the end of these calls during this open forum. one more segment on this program with nation magazine correspondent who will join us to discuss legal and political news of the day and that conversation is coming up on "washington journal." >> the very first president attended the white house corp. on discourse from his dinner was calvin coolidge in 1924. i was just elected to the u.s. senate. >> washington premier black-tie event is saturday at 8 p.m. eastern so watch the live coverage from the washington hilton could hotel including red carpet arrivals of journalists, politicians and celebrities. this year's headliner is roy wood junior and president biden is expected to speak.

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of fast-paced report on the stories of the day and listen to c-span any time, tell your smart speaker place beast -- play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just exist, americans can see democracy at work and citizens are truly engaged. get informed on c-span, unfiltered, and biased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are, you can hear opinions that matter the most. this is where democracy is where you can see it, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we welcome back to the program ellie was with -- was an author and journalist.

thanks for coming back to the program. guest: thanks for having me. host: your writings have indicated over the last couple of we tick weeks, that you have been rep watching the supreme court, the actual activities of the justices themselves. what have you learned? guest: having nine unelected, unaccountable grand wizards in charge of policing themselves doesn't work out very well. they are incapable of policing themselves and we saw that not just through the last couple of weeks with the rolling ethical disaster that is clarence thomas but now we are seeing it this morning again with just as neil gorsuch based on the most recent political reporting. host: this is the headline from politico -- for those who haven't read it yet, encapsulate that for us. guest: one of the top 100 law firms in the country, the seat

of their litigation department bought property that neil gorsuch had been trying to sell for two years. they bought the property nine days after gorsuch was confirmed to the supreme court. right there, you have the appearance of impropriety. clarence thomas has been running this thing like i don't know nothing about birthing no babies. he is acting like he is too stupid to understand what he was supposed to disclose on his financial disclosure forms. gorsuch is different. he disclosed the sale and disclosed that he made money off of the sale but he didn't disclose who bought the property. that key information that the ceo of a litigation department that regularly has business in front of the court, gorsuch left that field blank. it's a good indication that gorsuch knew that he had to disclose something, knew there

was an ethical concern with the disclosure and decided to leave it blank. on the others, the ceo is a man named brian duffy. he claims he didn't know he was buying the property from gorsuch. if you believe that, ok. when he found out that he bought the property from the supreme court justice, he had to submit his sale through his law firm ethics committee for conflicts of interest in impropriety hands like that. the guy who brought the property from the supreme court justice had to submit to some level of ethical scrutiny over the sale but the supreme court justice who sold it to him, he left that part out. host: as far as what rules the supreme court has for disclosure , they say it was the rule back then until the recent updates and changes we had, what do you

make of that argument? guest: it's a really poor argument. section five, 13104 is the long-term federal disclosure statute that applies to federal judges. the idea that you have to disclose land sales is not new. that is not a heightened level of the scrutiny that has come up only in the modern europe. it has been pretty standard and pretty obvious that you need to disclose who is buying your property or who is buying your mother's house and paying property taxes on it. that is not new. the argument has failed on a more intellectual level. we are dealing with supreme court justices. we are dealing with people who will say with certainty whether a pregnant person has a right to their own body and say with certainty how many guns a

shooter is allowed to have, who will say with certainty whether a person can be sentenced to die. and yet these nine people are acting like they can understand the disclosure arm and it's too confusing and they're not sure what they are supposed to do? , on, who is that for and who believes that? either these people can fill out a form where they are hiding something. host: senator durbin is asked justice roberts to come to the hill to testify on this matter to give his take on ethics issues. whether he will come or not is yet to be determined. what is his role in all of this is for is clearing up what's been going on over the last few weeks and how far he should take it and how for the discussion goes that he should have on ethics? guest: they are acting like they need to go out over a beer. there needs to be congressional legislation to oversee the

supreme court on the issue of ethics. there has been legislation proposed by congressman hank johnson of georgia cosponsored by senator chris murphy of connecticut to impose ethics rules on the supreme court. why is that not the discussion we are having as opposed to durbin asking john roberts to come by and talk this out. there is no official power for chief justice roberts. he doesn't have the authority to remove or punish a supreme court justice. constitutionally, only impeachment can remove a supreme court justice. but roberts is in the position where he could promulgate ethics rules for his own court. if justices do not follow those ethics rules, he would at least be in the position to call them out, to use the power of the pulpit, use the power of the press to say this is wrong,

please stop it. that's not an official power but i think it would matter to certain people if john roberts got up in front of a microphone and said the stuff we have learned in the stuff we've learned is unacceptable and we cannot have it here at the supreme court. that would mean something to somebody. roberts won't do that. host: justice thomas or just is gorsuch, is it still in your mind to the appearance of wrongdoing or was there actual wrongdoing? guest: figuring out the quid pro quo is the difficult part. in the gorsuch situation, one of their cases was a big obama climate change case where near gorsuch to paste -- where neil gorsuch took a strident position against the obama administration

with the legal position. did he do that because somebody bought his property? i can say that. he is legitimately an extremist. clarence thomas similarly, there are extremist things thomas believes that i don't think he gets paid for. the subtlety here, you have to understand how the supreme court decisions are made. you don't have to buy a supreme court justice his vote. you don't have to get to that level to make good on your investment in their property. all you need to buy is a lie. one light here are there in a majority opinion can dramatically shift and shape the law for future generations. you need to buy a negative, you need to buy them deciding account on one ground as opposed to another. if they decide on your favor on

point a that might be more helpful. that's where you might see the effect of some of the financial influence. that effect is also fundamentally very difficult to prove to anybody's satisfaction because his part to make the line in the sands to say that's what they paid for. you can't really do that. host: the justice correspondent for the nation's with us and if you want to ask him a question, you can call in on these numbers. our first call is from texas, independent line. good morning, go ahead. caller: changing the subject a little bit, do you think hunter biden is a perfect poster boy for white privilege?

guest: excuse me? we could be talking about how the nine -- two of the nine most powerful people in the country are allegedly on the take from rich republican donors but you want to talk about whether or not the president's son is an example of white privilege? sure, yeah. host: gloria, democrats line, staten island, new york. caller: yes, i want to talk about judge -- justice thomas. i think he should be set down because he's got a record that goes back a long ways as far as doing the wrong thing when he accused the lady of inappropriately touching him and he was found not guilty. he is guilty and he got this normal function to be let off.

guest: you are referring to the anita hill allegations. thomas found that they did not care, that's to the difference. . the senate didn't care about the anita hill allegations. just like the senate that return kavanaugh did not care about his accusations. that is a deeper rock at the heart of air system. -- of our system where we are willing to not just elevate and promote but idolize men who are under these kinds of allegations. that's the deeper rot. in terms of stepping down, if he had dignity, he probably would.

he is facing cause of impropriety. there was a democratic congress and it was unlikely to the democrats would actually impeach him or they didn't want to go through that process. the reputation of the court should matter than any individual on the court. the other thing about thomas's people need to remember why he got his job. thomas replaced thurgood marshall in 1991 when he retired. he didn't die. thurgood marshall didn't die until 1993, 2 weeks after bill clinton was sworn in as president. thurgood marshall was alive but because he was sick and didn't think he could do the job at the level the supreme court requires , he resigned and under a

republican administration was replaced by a republican nominee because of the about the institution of the court was more important than his own personal political and ideological beliefs. that is the spirit that clarence thomas denigrates with his continued presence on the board. -- on the court. host: let me ask you about justice alito when it came to the abortion drug case last week. i will read you last sentence on this -- there is more there but

elaborate on that. guest: alito was mad and that to pigeon -- in that decision. he called out three of the four women who were on the court by name including amy coney barrett from his own party and accusing them of hypocrisy because of the shadow docket. alito likes to use the shadow docket which is an emergency appeals process to uphold republican decisions from lower courts, even those that will likely over get -- and overturned eventually. in this case, the use the shadow docket to take down a conservative opinion from a lower court and suddenly, he is mad about that. he said you cannot use the shadow document that way but this way. it was actually funny watching alito convolute himself to make this argument. the upshot he is trying to get of here is that he doesn't mean if he takes a position on the

case, even in the sentence you read, he is taking a position on the case and taking a position that the difference being approved for seven weeks after conception versus 10 weeks causes no real harm. it's the kind of analysis you make when you are a man and you think babies are brought by the stork. the difference between seven weeks and 10 weeks is significant for people were not planning on getting pregnant in the first place. thus, many of them don't know they are within six weeks of becoming pregnant. then it comes time to figure out what to do and whether they want to terminate their pregnancy. it is truly important as far as the definition of 7-10 weeks especially if you're a victim of sexual crime. alito washed that away.

that whether or not he ultimately upholds or denies that the conservative argument from the lower court to ban the abortion pill is so bad on just, technical grounds. it's just on the legal reasoning of the opinion. it is one of the more ridiculous things i have seen. i wouldn't be surprised if a justice like sam alito was able to overrule the lower court opinion just honest legal stupidity alone regardless of what he thinks about the larger issue. host: this is from larry and south dakota -- republican line. caller: i'm looking at this and my father was a commander at

pearl harbor. one of the things he told me was that lying will destroy us. liars will destroy us. and i looked at him and i said yeah liars with the worst. used to dish he always tried to do the best he was doing and you would think the top people in this country would not be liars. you would think they would be straightforward. they would do the best thing they can and lying would not be part of it. i know for fact there are two layers of a new supreme court, kavanaugh was one of them. that guy live through his whole confirmation. those women were right. i don't know about other liars

but i know there are two. host: that's larry and south dakota. how do you know for sure? are you there? caller: i know that they were doing when i was 17 or 18 and they were not treating women with the greatest of respect. host: ok, go ahead. caller: one guest: of the things that always gets me about the way the conservative party has closed ranks around kavanaugh and thomas and these people accused of sexual misconduct is that there are tons of republican justices who they could promote supreme court who would rule just like tongues and you without any of the bays and the allegations's conduct in the past -- and the misconduct they

have had in the past. they would love more -- no more than the opportunity to rule like clarence thomas for the next 30 years. the fact that they have gone with these two accused sexual prisoners to me says something -- sexual predator says something deep about the conservative legal movement as opposed to just what their legal political ideology is. you can have the ideology from hundreds of people, but to chosen to make the standard error these two guys who been accused of some of the worst conduct we can. ned that the abortion ruling goes back to lower courts, there are two -- they were too independent so what is that mean? guest: as of now, the abortion pill is legal in all the places

it was legal before this. the red states that have taken draconian antiabortion laws, the states that had taken a more progressive approach, you can get it there. that status quo will be in force until at least the fifth circuit decides on the abortion pill in the context of a full hearing. the district court, a nutty trump appointee judge made this radicular ruling to ban the abortion pill in addition on an emergency appeal and said part of the ruling stands. the supreme court on the emergency appeal said all of the ruling goes away. now we get to the actual full hearing of lawyers and briefs and arguments about this whack a doodle theory they are using to come after the abortion pill. it was approved by the fda in

the year 2000. the argument that you can sue the fda 27 years later just bonkers. now we will have to have a full hearing on the fifth circuit about that and i will take place over the next few months and we will see what they decide. it will likely be a terrible decision because that's what conservatives do. this circuit is the most conservative judicial circuit in the country. the fifth circuit is the newsmax of the judicial situation. they will make a harder ruling in one way or another and that will be immediately appealed to the supreme court. we are looking at some time maybe this time next year, maybe october 2024 before the supreme court actually gets around to hearing the full case and providing clarity to the

situation. confusion is part of the point. one of the things activists are trying to do is to add confusion and fear into the system so that people don't even know what they do and do not have a legal right to do. having the law be confused actually works in favor of what the birther's are trying to do and their allies in the judicial system are trying to do. host: mark in austin, texas, democrats line. . caller: good morning. host: you're on with our guest, go ahead. caller: i want to ask our guest -- i understand what he saying about clarence thomas and you can look at it some things he

has done i want to ask the desk -- i want to ask the guest question. the question is, want to know why there is no black bank in the united states of america. kenny is that question to host: there are black banks. guest: there are black banks. maybe i'm not the right person to ask but i believe there are black owned banks. you've got to look for them little bit more and you have to search for black-owned businesses harder than others. there are some right here in new york city. i'm not sure where that question was going but i think the way to roll it back into what we are talking about is one of the

things that clarence thomas has been arguing is that people are coming after him because he's black and conservative. he has this giant persecution complex because he's black and conservative, liberals have always hated him as far as own version -- personal heat those. there are other black conservatives out there lawyers and judges out there who believe many of the things thomas believes that haven't been accused of sexually assaulting assistance. some are not going on world globetrotting trips with nazis and they are not selling their mother's house and not telling anybody about it there are tons of black conservatives who

believes what thomas believes and don't do what tom was does. i just want more people to remember that thomas is not the only one. there are others who are better at it. host: i want to shift to another legal matter, the settlement of the dominion law system -- dominion voting system and fox news. what did you think of that case? guest: that's with the system is designed to do. the legal system is not trying to achieve justice, we had the personal system for that. it's going to achieve money and if you believe that money is the accountability, then great. if you believe money is accountability, that's the case. you leave accountability and believe there us -- there is something more punishing than just financial disclosure, the

law you would be abby is the county of news corp.. the settlement was only going to get to a monetary settlement. the monetary settlement is stiff. i've said before online is a lawyer, i would tell them to take the money. we are talking that a company that was bought by private equity five years ago for $38 million. the private ak people thousand 50% return there and is capitalist like those numbers. if i was there lawyer, i would've told dominion to take that money but i'm not there lawyer and what i'm interested in is justice. that's why i was disappointed

that dominion to the settlement when they had so much great but i understand. the system is designed mainly to produce financial payouts as opposed to produce real accountability. host: what you said about the civil cases overall, i want to ask you about the jury section -- selection today in the case against president trump which extends back several years a what's the significance that the jury selection is good. guest: let's go, this a long-term allegation against donald trump. this is the longest lawsuit allowed to be prosecuted because of important law passed in new york state called the adult survivors act. it narrowly 8 -- aged carols case because of seven years. we see this whereby this and the victim is ready to come forward and tell the story, that's an

indication that has lapsed. new york passed a special one year only law that will have the survivors assist dish of sexual assault one year and wish to bring their claims. it's the same thing for children a while back. it resulted in a ton of lawsuits. this lawsuit was brought under the new york exception lawton that's why we are getting to the jury selection today. this trial will be an opportunity to use donald trump's words against him. people are familiar with the fact that one of the reasons why trump is in trouble in georgia is because people have gotten to the spake. people forget, we got trump on tape on the access hollywood tape describing exactly what

type of assault the woman described in the 1990's. the judge already ruled it will be relevant and the jurors will be able to hear that tape. that is going to be an important trial gordon robert to to eventually hold him accountable in these charges. he will not personally appear in court and doesn't have to because it's a civil suit. there is no threat of jail time. this is a defamation suit on a civil case. there is still the chance that the truth will come out through this trial that is what i hope for. host: our independent line in idaho. caller: how are you doing? eli, you are extremely

refreshing. i like the fact that when you get call, you don't get the standard no matter how ridiculous the question is. thanks for your question. you let them know how you feel. my question concerns abc news. there are real fundamental rules to them -- to avoid the stuff we run to in court. just like a corporation, you have these things to line up first. that will take a week. clarence's wife, some of the stuff she was doing. maybe get some sort of amendment or boat to put some power back into roberts and the chief justice. they should be able to terminate you.

host: that's vince and idaho. guest: thank you for your question. there is a bill in congress right now by hank johnson and chris murphy trying to bring ethical strictures to the supreme court. call your most likely republican congressman in idaho. call them and say why are you supporting hank johnson and chris murphy's bill? i am old, there was a time when we could all agree about ethics. wherever you were in the political divide, you could agree that there needs to be ethics in our public officials. the kind of behavior that thomas and gorsuch are accused of wood get public employees and any

other level of government in really deep trouble. the basic lack of disclosure would get most government officials and most institutions in serious trouble. who has the authority to punish a supreme court justice and suspend them for six months. the answer is nobody. nobody can do that. don't call me, call your congressman, call your senator, there are people in congress now who understand how important ethics are. they are in the minority and we need to get more people more focused on ethics. if you live in illinois, called dick durbin and say chaired the

judiciary committee and don't invite john roberts over 40, pass a bill. -- over four t, pass a bill and that's how you will get actual scriptures on ethics assigned to these unaccountable people. host: let's hear from florida, democrats line. caller: good morning, can you hear me? it's just which is true post on twitter. i love you and i love when you comment. i just wanted to ask since you know so much about scotus, how do we make sure that this extremism majority does not happen again?

i feel like we use our nominated judges or however we go about getting our scotus, i feel like people like gorsuch and kavanaugh have used it as a payback. how do we make sure that doesn't happen? do we do it with ethics with clarence and call our congress and our senators to hold them accountable? keep doing what you do. guest: thank you so much. my solution for extremism -- i don't think that this is equivalent to clarence thomas. reasonable people will disagree

with me. my big issue is that i think both sides do worry about extremism, usually extremism from the other side. how do you get the supreme court to be less extreme? how do you get the supreme court to be center for where the country is? how do you get them to be more narrow? the answer is to have more supreme court justices. i know that's a little counterintuitive but the idea is that the bigger the institution, the more people on the institution, given the vagaries and small issues within the law, you have a lot of people and your decisions get narrower and narrower and narrower because there becomes a much narrower ground on which people can agree. one of the analogies i made is that you can think about this in your own life if you would you been going out with friends and trying to choose a restaurant for dinner.

if you only go out with four of your boys, you might go to certain places. you might do something crazy. if you have to go out there with 30 or 40 people and planning some kind of big event, you have to figure out where they will eat and you will go to applebee's. you will go to olive garden. you will go to some anodyne good for all time zone, nobody can be offended kind of place. same thing can happen on the supreme court. if you had 20 or 30 justices, the amount of the space in which they could find a 14 or 15 majority would be so much narrower to get 15 people on the same page that that would decrease the extremism on both sides that's happening on both

sides with this crazy extremism and have the court decide cases on very narrow and mainstream basis. host: from ohio, republican line. caller: good morning. mr. mystal, you are a far right winger and you are one of my absolute favorite people. i'd love to sit down and argue with you for hours. but let's be honest, probably 80% of the supreme court, the congress, the house, the president, politicians, the ruling class, probably 80% of them are dirty, both sides, i don't care. it's a special club. they look out for each other and you are very good at spotting them.

the top tier of them are corrupt and they look out for each other. they are not going to do anything with the supreme court because they do the same thing. they cover for each other. that's my idea but i love you and keep up arguing for your site. guest: at some level, your call makes me sad because that sentiment is one of the reasons why we have such a divide in this country. nobody trusts the people in the government. there are too many of us who basically distrust the government, distrust our elected officials and don't think we can get a fair shake. what that devolves into his people are throwing up their hands and saying they are all corrupt.

they say they are all dirty. we cannot lose the ability to distinguish between dirty and dirty air - and dirtoer. you get some kids in from playing outside and they are all dirty. one kid is covered in mud. you need to get into the shower now, yo. need to be able to distinguish between levels of discussed. - disgust.there is a reason you keep hearing about clarence thomas and not hearing about the other people the same way because the level of corruption or influence or whatever it's called is just different in kind than the other justices. even neil gorsuch, he disclosed the fee.

clarence thomas could not even do that. my second response is the feeling that they are all corrupt. how can we possibly get our fair shake about it. we have to vote for better people in the primary process. i am not going to change anybody's mind in 20 minutes on c-span but you are going to vote for your team. vote for the not corrupt person in the primary. there is no reason why the corrupt people have to keep winning. we can stop them in the primary process of people would pay attention and value ethics and value decency here as opposed to here. i think that would help clean

out the whole system. host: i want to finish with a question about politics, your thoughts on present biden announcing his running for another term. guest: why not? he's not going to have a significant challenger, this country is doing well and we are better off than we were four years ago. four years ago, we were in the middle of a crippling pandemic, the economy was going out of control. now we are better off. so he's going to run again, i'm not surprised by that and best of luck to him. we will see what happens throughout the process. he was never going to get a real primary challenger. there is never really any idea that he wasn't going to run again. host: eli mystal from the nation

who is a reporter and author. thanks as always for giving us your time. guest: thanks for having me. host: that's it for the program today, another addition comes your way at 7:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. we will see you then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including wow. >> wow is there for our

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