♪ host: good morning, this is washington journal for april 30. even with the passage of the debt ceiling bill in the house, there has yet to be follow-up discussions, that we know of,

between president joe biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy over raising the debt ceiling. the president and most democrats do not want to tie those discussions to spending cuts. house speaker mccarthy and most republicans hope the debt ceiling bill will serve as a starting point for negotiation. in the next hour we ask you, who do you blame for the debt limit standoff? if you think president biden and democrats are most to blame, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you think house speaker mccarthy and republicans are most to blame, call (202) 748-8001. if you put equal blame on both parties, call us at (202) 748-8002.

you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you live. you can find us on facebook.com/cspan, on twitter @cspanwj and on instagram @cspanwj. we are going to start off this morning by framing the conversation a little bit, this is an article on market watch. the headline says here is what's next as house republicans seek talks with biden after passing their bill. i want to scroll down to the first heading talks expected between mccarthy and biden, while the house gop debt limit bill has no chance of passage in the democratic-controlled senate , speaker kevin mccarthy and fellow republicans are aiming to use the measure as a starting

point to draw biden into talks. wednesday's vote is a positive development in part because the gop putting a proposal on paper satisfies the primary precondition hinted at by democrats to begin direct talks about raising the limit says the director of research at height capital markets in on thursday. gridlock is still likely for many weeks to come, but mccarthy has the faint beginnings of a deal. the white house now has to respond says the chief u.s. apology -- policy strategist. here is the bill about begin -- here is more about the same report. the republican bill seeks to raise the limit on federal borrowing for a year while cutting spending and rolling

back a range of democratic policies. democrats have said the list should be made without spending cuts or other conditions. we are going to bring up a couple of editorials. here is one from the washington post, i have an excerpt to show you on the screen. again, the washington post editorial says mr. biden's insistence that house republicans pass a cleanebt limit increase without any strings attached is the morally and economically correct course of action. but reality has it would be wi mr. biden to start talking seriously with mr. mccarthy, budget talks can remain oparate task, but they neeommit. it is wrong to think there is plenty of time before crisis would hit, though the latest read on tax receipts indicates it would not occur until july.

a few mont is hardly any time in congress, particularly to craft a compromise when the two sides are so far apart. here is another opinion piece by msnbc opinion writer hayes brown . yes, the gop hased to come together to approve a starting point for talks with biden. there is far less chance the parties far right block finds much to love in whatever deal gets struck in ting weeks. that lea mccarthy poised to fighbattle with one hand tiind his back. yes, he now has something concrete to bring to the negotiating table with the white house. but as part of the deal he made become speaker, it takes only one disgruntled member of his caucus to file aarge petition, forcing a vote that could him from power. as a result, the country has taken one small step forward

toward not defaulting on its debts, but two steps closer to a potential mutiny against mccarthy. that is from an msnbc editorial. the phone lines once again, if you think president biden and democrats are most to blame for the current debt ceiling standoff, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you mostly blame speaker mccarthy and republicans, the number is (202) 748-8001. if you put equal blame on both sides, the number is (202) 748-8002. we are going to the phone lines now. the first caller is terry from

washington, d.c. you think mccarthy is most to blame. caller: yes, i do. thank you very much. i blame the republicans or mccarthy because of what has been happening throughout the last year or so that we are aware of, the only way they get the legislation they want past is by some kind of gerrymandering or whatever at the state level. most of what they want to pass is not popular with the majority of the country. i forget who said this, it might have been vice president harris. you pay your bills, you negotiate the budget. they put the two things together, because they know that what they want to pass in their budget is not popular with the majority of us citizens out here

in the world. host: that was terry and washington, d.c.. let us go to lady lake, florida. patrick, you blame both. tell us why. caller: i blame also the congressional republicans and democrats. i think you should have taken us back about 25 years when supposedly clinton had balanced the budget and had a path to pay off the debt -- i know 9/11 happened, but about $31 trillion of debt over the last 23 years has been run up. this is such a distraction. the cfos of other companies put unprotected and unsecured funds in that bank, no, it is the feds problem.

it is a weird attitude to take. thanks for taking my call. host: the next caller is read from virginia -- reed from virginia, you say mccarthy and republicans are most to blame. caller: this is fraud black people in america. there is never going to be equal justice for black people, there is never going to be reparation for black people. there is never going to be equality in america for black people. there's never going to be any love for black people in america. america hates the black people, so all of you will black people supporting the system, you are bugged out. this system will never support you. they will never do anything for you. democrats, republicans, it is the same bird of the same feathers. the same two parties.

all i am saying is this. the only solution is for black people to keep the commandments, trust in the lord. we are the israelites, we are god's children. god is black, jesus is black. that is the end of the story. host: let us go to tom in south carolina. tell us why you blame both parties. caller: well, let me give you just very quickly -- i believe this is a matter of who is the greatest salesperson. either it would be biden or mccarthy. i was in sales and marketing for 25 years, somewhat successful over the years. i found out when i sat with my potential client, if i heard -- not listened, but heard what

that person was saying to me, and if they heard, not listened to me, but heard me say what i was saying, we got together, finally. we worked out a proposal that made both of us successful. neither one of these two are willing to do that. neither one of them are willing to sit down at a table and say, what do you want now? here is what i want, let us get together. it is a matter of good old-fashioned salesmanship, thank you for taking my call. host: tom in south carolina, let us go to santa rosa, california. arnold, you say mccarthy and republicans are most to blame. host: yes. i did call on that line. but what i realizes it is the american people.

if we want representatives to do anything, we need to represent ourselves. i do not know if there was a -- one of the earlier things i heard on c-span, but all of this is on the american people. from the shootings and gun control, the misinterpretation of the second amendment, well-regulated militia, citizens united. we are not out on the streets causing changes that we know are right, it is our fault. that is what we are, we are free people. we need to make sure that these

people that are going to washington, representing us, know how we feel. we do that or we do not do that to her own peril. thank you, i love c-span. i have your t-shirts, i just found c-span school. i love the program that you did for the u.s. government test for students. i'm 62 years old and i spent the last 40 years teaching myself to read, i'm just finishing a book on the supreme court, the people's history of the supreme court. and you know what? we need to show -- we need to represent who we are. host: thank you, arnold. the next caller, martin is in

newport, virginia. another caller who says mccarthy's most to blame, go ahead. caller: for sure. if people do not remember, the debt ceiling was raised three times during trump. it never made any headlines, because the democrats feel that we pay her bills. but in that time -- i believe it is something like a quarter of the debt was raised during the trump administration. so it is going to be going on for however many times a democrat is in office with the republicans. it will probably crash the stock market by at least 15% to 20%,

until they get the debt ceiling again. i do not believe biden should budge a bit. people have to remember how long this had been going on, even before that, when a democrat was in power. i believe it was even done when clinton -- maybe i am wrong. but i know certainly if a democrat is in power and the republicans are in power in the house or the senate, there is going to be this crisis. it is guaranteed. so i hope biden does the trillion dollar coin, there's a lot of people they could do that. they have to get rid of the whole idea of the debts ceiling. that is my comment, thank you. host: now in pittsburgh, patrick. you say biden and democrats are

most to blame. tell us why. caller: the democratic party no longer exists. it is a warmongering tsunami of lies. look at the war in ukraine, you can understand how corrupt it is. the director of the central intelligence agency went to ukraine because the corruption is so severe that the director basically conveyed to them that you need to modify the amount of money you are stealing. what happened to the democratic party? it was a party that questioned war, now it is nothing more than a warmongering cesspool. people are looking at this reality and not understanding how our democracy is ceasing to exist in front of our eyes. biden has never been a democrat.

he sold to the american people a tsunami of lies and the democratic party sets the standard for deceit when it comes to the amount of money -- the theft is almost incomprehensible. host: that was patrick in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. this is an interview that house speaker kevin mccarthy did on fox news after the house voted on the debt ceiling legislation, he is discussing the next steps for the bill. let us watch. [video clip] >> speaker mccarthy, let me read you. you might get some help, maybe, from house republican leader mitch mcconnell. he tweeted out today house republicans just passed a plan to rein in democrats reckless spending. president biden's last phone

excuse for not doing his job has run out, it is way past time for the president to sit down with speaker mccarthy and negotiate bipartisan path forward on the debt ceiling. have you talked to mitch mcconnell? >> i did come i talk to him last night and a number of senators on both sides of the aisle, who are excited. even in the house, number of democrats have privately told me they are rooting for me, they think the president's rocky he is not negotiating. you look at americans by more than 70% believe you should sit down and negotiate. this is the difference. this is the leader of the free world ignoring a major problem in creating more. this is not the border, he cannot ignore in hopes it goes away. he has to deal with it, the day is coming and soon. it could be june or july. it is coming, it is better to sit down early and we solve the problem to make our country stronger. >> what is the next step?

how do you see this playing out? do we wait? >> we do not negotiate with ourselves, but we did exactly what he asked of us. we sat down with him, i produced a plan and sent it to the senate. you know how government works, the house passes a plan, then the senate, then we can conference. if they just sit there and ignore it, it is the republicans who did not put in any form of default because we raised the debt limit. they have done nothing and they cannot pass a clean debt ceiling out of the senate. host: that was house speaker kevin mccarthy talking on fox news about next steps for house republicans debt ceiling legislation, this is some new polling from morning console. as the debt ceiling countdown clock ticks, voters say they

spread blame for default among both parties equally. i'm going to scroll down to the chart that shows the polling results, this was a poll conducted in february. of all voters, 30% blame democrats. 37% blame both parties equally, 24% lane republicans. let us go to the republican line. 50% would blame democrats, 32% would blame both parties equally, 11% of republicans would blame fellow republicans. democrats it is 19%, 32% and 38%. independence, 53% would blame both parties equally and 18% would blame republicans.

but the question right now is for you, who would you blame the most -- who do you blame the most for the debt limit standoff? if you blame president biden and democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you think speaker mccarthy and republicans are most to blame, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8001. if you think both parties share equal blame for the current debt limit standoff, call us at (202) 748-8002. we are ready to take more of your calls now. jerry in georgia, turned on your tv a little bit. we want you to tell us why you think mccarthy and republicans are most to blame. caller: all they care about is

themselves. they care about themselves, nothing for the common man. i am so ashamed of the republicans, they do nothing for america but kiss ass, trumps' ass. host: that was jerry in georgia, let us go to joni in minnesota. you think mccarthy and republicans are most to blame. caller: i just wanted to say, others have said when trump was president, we raise the debt ceiling three times no problem. this is for money already spent, budget negotiations are completely separate. mccarthy should do a clean debt ceiling, raise the debt ceiling.

not through the economy into chaos. he passed a debt ceiling bill that will go nowhere in the senate, just pass a clean debt ceiling bill, pay the past credit card bills like everybody in the house, then do budget negotiations when the budget is to be negotiated. i 100% mccarthy and republicans are to blame. thank you. host: let us go to mary in louisiana, you think both sides are equally to blame. caller: yes, i do. i believe that, in america, sports brings the division between all of us. we all love sports, they do not want to give it up. i do believe the government pays a whole lot of -- you know the

free stuff the republicans do not want to give up, i think that is all in sports. democrats do not want to give up sports, nobody wants to give it up. if they put in a lot of money. kids aren't playing in the streets anymore, they are all being controlled by the control of the sports -- everybody is controlled, nobody's doing anything free anymore. thank you for taking my call. host: let us go to our twitter page, we have a tweet that writes congress should abolish the debt ceiling. it's been raised 78 times since 1960 and has not been effective as a means to rein in spending. it is a political distraction

and a potentially dangerous one. this is from anthony grady, both are responsible for the deficit spending. balance the budget. very few politicians care and the $30 trillion deficit will bankrupt the country one day. someone else writes for once, you cannot blame republicans. they have a bill that is a negotiating point. biden and democrats refused to negotiate, so any shutdown will be on them, no matter what the media says. here are some text messages that have come in. james from south dakota writes of course it is mccarthy's fault , he is holding our economy hostage. i say call the bluff. no way the republicans are going to risk their precious stock market. kathy in new jersey writes

morning, the debt limit is in the senate now. they are to blame for not go to go shading -- not negotiating with mccarthy. biden is wrong for ignoring the house and half the country. one more text message from richard in las vegas, it is time for biden to meet with mccarthy to iron this out. the house bill seems quite reasonable. at this point, if there is no negotiation, it will be on biden for refusing to talk. now, back to the phone lines. aine in washington blames both sides equally, you aron caller: great. for starters, i blame the republicans because they did not win the senate. this would not be an issue. then i also blame biden, because he is not listening to what the

cbo is saying, the cbo says if this law passes, we will save $4.8 trillion. unless they do not care about our future, how could they possibly not care about saving that much money? it is taxpayer money, it is what people are paying to our government to keep us out of rats like this. host: you bring up the point about the debt and the burden on taxpayers. what is your response when democrats say the cut republicans want to do in order to reduce the debt would burden -- caller: it is not a cut, though. it is not a cut. because of covid, we spent a great deal of money in 20.

recuperating -- trying to get back to normal. the bill wants to restore -- wants to keep the spending we had in 2022 in this bucket, they want to restore that amount of spending. they do not want to add anything to that amount. that seems so reasonable to me, because we know we spent a lot of money and even biden is out there saying what a great year 2022 was. if it is a great year and we spent that much money, then it should be a great year if we spend it in 2024. in my opinion. host: appreciate your call. the next caller is dave from

long island, new york. you say biden and democrats honestly to blame. caller: yes. first of all, i am independent, so that is how i am viewing this. everyone is saying biden will not negotiate. if you see him on the news, he appears to be mentally impeded. is it that he won't negotiate or that he is not mentally capable of negotiating? is it to the point where he really cannot negotiate a budget that she cannot even read the teleprompter. could that be the issue, that he is not competent enough to negotiate? that is an independent perspective. host: dave in long island, let us go to pennsylvania, gary, you say republicans and mccarthy's are to blame. caller: that is correct. after the bush tax cuts, the deficit went up.

after the trump tax cuts, which mccarthy voted for, all of a sudden now, he found his religion. i am so horrified by the deficit. why did they cut taxes? i want to thank c-span for being here, this is really pretty cool. but the tax cuts are the problem. if i were biden, i would say i would negotiate. rollback the tax cuts of the trump administration and the bush administration. thank you. host: gary in allentown, let us go to doug from washington state. you say both sides. caller: yes.

i just cannot believe 99% of the callers today that are not looking at the big picture here. they are both responsible for the debt and everything, i think. it is ridiculous everybody is complaining it is the republicans or biden does not have his brains enough to negotiate. our country is going to default eventually anyway, because the debt is so big. nobody cares. as far as trump tax cuts, we taken a couple trillion dollars more in revenue then we did back then, but it still get spent. i just cannot believe everybody is calling in -- it is an american problem, not democrat and republican. we are going to go broke. i do not understand why everybody overlooks the big picture.

host: up next we have carlton in lincoln, rhode island. you say biden and democrats are mostly to blame. caller: i really think it is honestly -- we have raised the debt ceiling already enough times, we've done under democrat and republican presidents, we've been doing it since the 1960's, for as long as anyone can remember. eventually, there is going to be a limit. i think democrats do not really see that. in my life, i've lived through two once-in-a-lifetime recessions, it is clearly not working. they should have recognized that it is not going to work, we need to establish a solid debt ceiling instead of raising and

raising and hoping that works. host: let us bring up some more video, this is house democratic leader hakeem jeffries discussing house republicans approach to resolving the debt ceiling and if president biden should be more engaged with the house. this is a portion from his press conference on friday. [video clip] >> the default on america act was sent over to the senate. the senate will have to take steps to evaluate the legislation. what seems clear to everyone as it is dead on arrival. it is not a serious proposal. it does not even have support from many senate republicans. that is the untenable position that exists in congress right now. the president has continued to

make clear that he is willing to talk to anyone on capitol hill about the type of spending decisions, investment decisions and revenue decisions that should be made to protect the health, safety and economic well-being of the american people. there is a process for that to occur, it is called the budget. president biden has released his budget. over a month ago, president biden's budget will create an economy that works for everyday americans. his budget will protect and strengthen social security, this budget will cut the deficit by $3 trillion. we are still waiting for house republicans to produce a budget. they produced a ransom note. host: that was house democratic leader hakeem jeffries talking

about the republican bill on the debt ceiling. our question for you this morning, who do you blame for the current debt limit standoff? if you think president biden and democrats are most to blame, your number is (202) 748-8000. if you blame speaker mccarthy and republicans mostly for the standoff, call us at (202) 8-8001. if you put equal blame obo sides, call us at (202) 748-8002 . let us go to warren in new york state, you say biden and democrats are most to blame. caller: absolutely. since he has been in charge -- took over from the previous president, he has done nothing

but raise and raise and spend and spend. as a government, you cannot keep spending. we are getting toward over $32 trillion in debt. it is not fair that every citizen has over $100,000 of federal debt. if a baby is born today, before they can walk or anything, soon as they are born as an american citizen, has over $100,000 in federal debt. that is wrong. all of these illegals, all of these -- it is just spend. all the social programs. all you've got to do is look at what is going on in france. we were going to have to -- it has got to stop, it's got to come to an end. you cannot keep spending.

the gravy train is over. we are broke as a country and in the world, we are no longer a superpower. we are no longer a superpower. i believe that we are going to lose, eventually, the end of world leaders as far as the american dollar. we spent that much and the dollar degraded that bad. host: the next caller is paulette, calling from new york. you say that mccarthy and democrats are mostly to blame. caller: absolutely. may view on this is we've been raising the debt ceiling forever , it's been going on for years and years.

but the real problem with all of this is raising the debt ceiling does not work for poor people. i am talking about people of color, it does not matter. raising the debt ceiling has to have been. but what the republicans failed to realize is they do not want to pay their fair share of taxes. this means there is a high class in america and a low class in america. all of it is not wanting to pay your fair share of taxes is why the debt ceiling will remain a problem, because the house and senate is never the same, never equal. when it comes down to it, if they would pay their fair share, that means democrats would have to pay their fair share, republicans would have to pay their fair share and may be wiped some of the debt if they would do what they are supposed to do in america and not tax

cuts just for the rich people. people do not want to realize that. we will always raise the debt ceiling. what republicans have to do is say you know what, we can stop the mess that is going on in america by doing what we need to do. yes, we are going to raise the debt ceiling, but pay your fair share of taxes. it is not america anymore, people are suffering because the middle-class is being wiped out. they are paying their fair share because of the way the tax bracket was set up when trump was in office, now they do not want to see that. it is absurd. host: thank you for your comments. let us go to connecticut, ben is calling -- you say both parties are equally to blame. caller: they are both equally to

blame, they both ran up the budget. both parties still money from the american people. we see what is happening, we are broke. totally broke. all you have to do is go over to england where our company is registered, the u.s. company is registered, you can see we are in default. it is already done, we are just waiting for the press and the government to tell the people, you guys have already made up your mind. i've been watching since you started. almost daily. fair and balanced, ok, they were probably seven or eight democrats who called before you talked to one republican. you are disgusting, thank you. host: deborah in georgia, you

think biden and democrats are mostly brain -- mostly to blame. caller: i have the wrong number. i could say both parties, but this man here. the way people think -- they are not thinking of what is going on. we spend money -- and only democrats or republicans. when the republicans got in there, they said it was coming because the economy was so bad. get the weight they lost with all the running up and down the highways, sending the people up and down, that is taxpayer money, not nobody else's money. democrats are taking in all these people -- not saying it is a problem, but they are taking in these people.

the ones that need the money cannot get the money because those that have the money are using it to build hotels. it is not that we are broke, it is that money has been put in places where it can help the party that is ahead. the republicans have done so much evil, they are not going to do nothing because they can't. they can't do nothing if he wanted to because there's so many that do not want them to do. they are not worried about us the people, they are worried for the economy. running up and down new york, what about investigate the people that put you in? all the false investigations they know it is not necessary. you are in there to help the people.

not to go out with all the foolishness with trump, you've got to clean up your own backyard before you try to clean up somebody else's. host: we have to go to the next caller, we appreciate your time. next up is vince in pennsylvania , you say that mccarthy and republicans are mostly the blame . caller: why not? kevin mccarthy needed 18 rounds of votes before he could win, so every thing that has gone on is not in his control. joe biden tells us everything is perfect and fine, he's created jobs, the economy is perfect. then we get on here and we are talking about the debt ceiling and $30 trillion in debt. i agree with the one caller.

not c-span, but washington journal, you folks made up your mind on your topics. i believe you are dividing the country. the hatred, black-and-white, republican and democrat. you helped divide this country and i do not appreciate that. we need term limits, too. that is all i have to share. host: dan in new york, you say both sides. caller: absolutely. i agree with the previous caller. every point he made made sense. i think the debt ceiling in the debt that has been made has been made from years and years ago, neither one of these people -- neither one of these parties are completely responsible for this, ok? every generation, every president, it has gone up. the cost of doing business for the government and social programs and everything has gone

up. the cost for military is gone up. if republicans get their way, they will spend the money on the military and cut social programs , there is many people that. there's a lot of people that abuse that, i agree. but there's a lot of people that need it. i am one of them. it is a difficult proposition, because i blame both parties. they play the american people every single time. now, we have this division between republican and democrat that has fed into what the riots were in the storming of the capitol and black lives matter. all of this right here is just being fed by these kinds of questions.

host: let us go now to line all from -- lionel from baltimore, you say mccarthy and republicans. caller: the only reason i say mccarthy and republicans is because i was thinking this debt limit thing was a bill that we owe. when there is a bill we owe, we need to pay it. if we pay the bill from last year or whatever, then we have got that out of the way and mccarthy and republicans can sit down and draw biden to the table because the debt bill would be out of the way. biden would not have no other reason to stay out of the way, he had to come to the table then. then, they can bring all the

stuff about what they want to do with the 1% raise over the next year and all of this, democrats and republicans come to the table and work this thing out about what they wanted to do with 24. all this other stuff about this $31 trillion debt we got from all these years before, put that to the side. that is what they were trying to work on, bring it down in the out years. we need to stop right now, just stop worrying about the $31 trillion. our government is going to work on that in the out years. one more thing i want to speak about, our economy -- the world economy is run off of the american dollar, right? if we do not keep the dollar strong, russia, china, north

korea, saudi arabia, iran, they are getting together. they are going to be the next world power. you think that is something? think about that. host: the next caller is james in michigan, you say both sides are equally to blame. caller: yes, both sides. seems about every 10 years something comes up, got to have all this money or the world is going to collapse. the great recession, the road was going to collapse. had to have trillions of dollars to bail out the banks, then the banks took the money and started giving everybody huge bonuses, buying stocks back and all of that. we have war after war. ever since trickle down

economics, the wealthy keep getting all of these tax breaks. it is never ending. that is all i've got. host: let's go to independence, ohio. lena is on the line, you say that biden and democrats are who you blame. caller: kind of, yes. of course there are both sides. they fight and fight. the budget to come -- people can't work, they need help. but people can go to work need a job and go to work. what i see, when it was obama, gasoline was $1.89, now we are a

must in the same situation. drop the gasoline a dollar 80, why biden can do that? that is what you've got to take a simple idea. why obama bring the gasoline $4.89 when people can go to work and complain because you can put gas in your car? when you giving money like you have a child and giving money and going to go by mcdonald's, play with the money. money is work, many of got to work hard. judge your judgment how we've got to use it. not just get money for the government. i am sorry. host: we have a few more text messages social media posts.

richard in las vegas says it is time for biden to meet with mccarthy giant this out. the house bill seems quite reasonable. if there's no negotiation, it will be on biden for refusing to talk. congress needs to pass bills that they both will sign. if both sides passed bill that neither will agree to, it is not up to the president. the senate and house must agree. if they could agree to anything, biden would sign it. both parties are to blame, they both spend money they do not have than want to raise the debt ceiling with no strings attached. then on twitter, speaker mccarthy created this crisis then put forth a bill that is a nonstarter. nothing in this bill warrants defaulting on our obligations. one more.

whatever the results, unless it is passed, my lifestyle will not change too much. but the debt must be paid, period. back to the phe lines, michael in new jersey. you sa that mccarthy and republicans are most to blame. caller: yes, good morning. first time caller, longtime listener. i've been involved in politics coming up on 40 years, i work for a broadcasting corporation not based in the united states, so i am very neutral on a lot. i have voted democrat and republican in my life and i am now a staunch democrat. i say this because the debt ceiling's been ignored by the republican party for at least the last 20 years. they raise it when they need it and when it needed to be raised, they always stolid.

what is happening in america is we are losing the middle-class. the lower classes just about dissolved to nothingness. i really think we have to put term limits on senators and representatives in the house, and we need to stop the media channel expanding. i say expanding in the sense of, when i grew up, we had abc, cbs, nbc. you had your 6:00 news. you did not have 24/7 biased news, opinionated news, nonfactual news being spread on satellite radio and television. having a place in the city in the country -- when i come to my country home, i get fed minuscule news from stations

that are being held up by a struggling group that owns 76% of stations outside major cities throughout america. we will get the true news in new york, but you might not be hearing that in rural pennsylvania. we have to solidify the news stations, they must be monitored for fake news and giving factual news, and i really have to think we have to curve the time we have social media opened to the public. we are getting fed too much, that is the truth. host: let us go to south bend, indiana. andrew, both equally to blame. caller: yes, mainly because the topic is misunderstood.

the question should be, can either republicans or democrats managed to get good gdp, good economy and, at the same time, reduce debt? i grew up thinking our countries, our managers, could do both. excuse me. but if you look at 1959 to now and you look at gdp, you look at the amount of debt, when debt goes down, it is good. when the economy goes up, it is good. but can you manage both at the same time? the answer is no. if you take the averages and shaded them, you can see that when debt is low, the op the sit on the gross national product.

this is called a negative correlation, it is 70%. you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. all the parties, all my teachers, my mother and father, nobody explained you cannot have both. i ask anybody that can take an average, knows math, look at the 1969 -- 1960 to now, take the average, shade it. you will see that you never match up. last points, with clinton, you had good economy and lowering debt. with reagan, you had the opposite. those are the only 10 years or so out of the whole 60 that it was not opposite. you cannot have your cake and

eat it, too. there are two anomalies with reagan bad and clinton good. thank you, please do the research, ask the questions yourselves. do the math yourself. i was surprised when i learned this was not true with an nba, having a business, playing politics. nobody told me you cannot have your cake and eat it, too. host: you can participate, we have an informal poll on twitter . right now, we have a little under 200 votes thus far. it is showing about 62% of those who participated in the informal twitter poll blame mccarthy and republicans, almost 20% blame biden and democrats. looks like about 16% mostly

blame -- says both sides are equally to blame. if you are on twitter, participate in the informal poll about today's question. we will go back to the phone lines. dave in las vegas, you say that mccarthy and republicans are both to blame. caller: yes, they are. the republicans want to get rid of social security and medicare. when clinton -- would have left clinton in there, we would not have a debt limit because republicans are so greedy and selfish. every time the debt limit comes up, they vote against it. what they should do -- i am in the service. instead of cutting military checks and social security, they should say republicans do not get their checks. the republicans are pure evil, pure greed.

if they let clinton and their when we were paying a little more, the debt limit would have been gone. but they were against that, because they are both the end greedy. they want to take away social security, they want to take away medicare and take away health care. they are to blame, it is not the democrats. you saw in the address to the nation, he said we will be fine. they did not want to do it. when trump tried to overthrow the u.s. government, we knew go into the service, they ask if you are a communist and plan to overthrow the u.s. government. trump did that. he should never have been president and should not be running for any election now. that is my comment. i hope people do not vote republican because they will get rid of social security and medicare.

host: the last caller for the segment, you say biden and democrats are most of blame. i think both sides are to blame, i also think our country -- our country needs to come together, our people need to come together and start getting along and agreeing on things. the democrats and republicans need to come together. our politicians in washington, they need to do their jobs better and start heading the economy better and quit wasting a lot of money.

i remember 10 or 15 years ago, they made a hammer work and and aircraft and it was a $900 hammer. it was wasteful spending and we have to stop. we are blessed to live in the best mission on the planet and i feel blessed to live in this nation but we have problems and we need to come together. host: we are going to take a quick break. up next we will discuss campaign 2024 with republican strategist conor maguire and democratic strategist chuck rocha. and later, jess mccall finds us to talk about recent firings at fox news and cnn and what it means for both news organizations. first, a little more from less

night from roy wood junior who headlined 2023 white house correspondents association dinner, taking aim at took kurt carlsen, don lemon, and more. here is a portion. [video clip] >> but tonight we are all unified into one thing, and that is scandal. scandals have been devouring careers this year. the untouchable, tucker carlsen is out of a job. and people celebrating. but for tucker's staff, i want you to know what -- i know what you are feeling. got caught up like they do from

vanderpump rules. text messages say i don't know what vanderpump rules is about. it is power for white people. that is quite power. don't worry about that. we have to get tucker back on the air because there are millions of americans who don't know why they hate you. [laughter] fox claims dominion conspired with the democrats to read the election and the democrats should be flattered they thought y'all were smart enough to rig an election. [laughter] warnock needed a runoff to be the werewolf. [laughter]

but it is not over for you, fox news. you still have more bad news. the smart medic lawsuit is coming and they want more than dominion. my favorite voting machine is the smart matic voting machine. we should give credit where credit is due. tucker carlsen is the first hose to get fired for fox news for something that is only partially about how he treats women. that is progress. don lemon is out of a job. [applause] don lemon, my dog don lemon.

he released a statement saying he got fired from cnn but cnn released a statement saying that offered him a meeting. they had to part ways because don lemon can't accurately report a story about don lemon. [laughter] i still think dunn deserved more, cnn. that ain't how you fire somebody. how much stuff is it that you work on the news and then watch the news that you got fired from the news? even jeffrey toobin is saying he rubbed me the wrong way. [laughter] letting down go was the wrong move. you shouldn't have let him go that soon. he was hired when you were letting him drink. you shouldn't have cut off the

liquor. you don't fire the host after they first couple of scandals. but them stack up. yes, he was a diva and he said things about a couple women, but that is a promotion at fox news. host: are back with "washington journal." joining us are republican strategist conor maguire and democratic strategist chuck rocha. we will be discussing campaign 2024 and political news of the day. good morning to you. let's get it out of the way, full disclosure time, which major candidates or pacs are you working with or have you worked with in the past? we will start with connor. guest: we are working with

desantis and hoping to encourage and pave the way for desantis if he chooses to run for president. i think it is a great decision. he is certainly someone who has the best chance to win in the general election and we have been very excited to work together on that. host: and chuck? guest: the past a lot of people remember i have worked for bernie sanders and was a senior advisor and after that race we ran the biden super pac. bernie had made history with latino voters and we carried it on with biden. we are working with some exciting candidates, working on a budget congressional race around the country and we are working with a senate jury pack. and planned parenthood we get to see them doing wonderful work and i think my staff for most of that. host: thank you for getting that

out of the way. we appreciate you guys. president biden announced his reelection bid. why now, chuck? guest: you can't early start raising money until you announce. that was the big conundrum within our own party, wimbley announced, or said to getting to raising money. he is an incumbent president makes him different from a santos or bernie or somebody who is not already president. i will remind everyone of how donald trump was the president and had to raise money and you had to serve the people and then do the campaign separate. doing it early as possible means he has time to raise a lot of money. host: let's look at the announcement i video from president biden. [video clip] pres. biden: when i ran for

president four years ago i said i was about the soul of america and we still are. the question we are facing is whether in the years ahead we have more freedom or less freedom, more rights or if you are rights. this is not a time to be complacent. that is why i am running for reelection, because i know america. i know we are good and decent people. i know we are still a country that believes in honesty and respect and treating each other with dignity. we are a country or we give hate no safe harbor. we believe rebutting should be given a fair shot to succeed in this country. every generation of america has faced among where they have to amend -- defend democracy and

our civil rights. and this is our moment. ♪ so if you are with me, go to joebiden.com. this is the united states of america and there is nothing we cannot do if we work together. host: so that again was the video from president biden's reelection announcement.

connor, what did you think about how he announced in the video? guest: it up about finishing the job and based on campaign promises have a lot to do. the american people see it. the economy is in the mick and we are worried -- is anemic and it is starting g into people's savings. that is something people see every day. people do not think the economy is in a better place. only 19% of americans think things are doing well on an economic level in this country. people are worried about a recession coming up. based on the campaign promises from the biden campaign, you would think it was something they worked on and built out and executed. they have a lot left to do. 70% of this country voters do not want president biden to run again for reelection. and that is 50% of democrats

themselves don't want biden to run. it is nice video making it look like everyone is working together and happy but there are more options out there and the american people see that. we see this in pulling all the time. they do not think the biden administration has accomplished much at all and if it was harris or someone else, no one seems like there is a lot of support for harris either. great for the democrat party that they have the president running for reelection. 80 years old, i guess that is the face of the democrat party. guest: would respond by saying not looking at pull numbers but results, and we asked americans if they agree or disagree and democrats overwhelmingly won a race they weren't supposed to win. the republicans did when back the house but they should've had

a 30 seat majority from a president who was so unpopular. in the senate, we won a seat back and we should have lost four seats. i am not saying everything connor is saying is wrong but we asked folks who they believe in and joe biden, who is not perfect in any way. but you can't deny the democrats have created jobs and got things done in congress. i will not talk about his age and imperfections, but if you look at what has gotten done, a lot of stuff has gotten done and american people will have a choice coming up soon. host: will be talking about the 2024 election and news of the day. want to promote the phone lines so the viewers can start calling in. want to hear your questions for either republican strategist conor require or democratic strategist chuck rocha.

or if you just have a comment. republicans call (202) 748-8001. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. if you are an independent, (202) 748-8002. you can start calling in now. we will get to your question or comment in just a few minutes. let's talk a little about pulling -- polling. i want to show numbers about biden's approval rating. it says 83 -- 88% of democrats say they definitely or probably would vote for biden, but only 22% of independents and only 3% of republicans. chuck, can biden went reelection

when especially that number of independents say definitely or probably? guest: there is a race going on where both sides will have a debate about the ideological values of where we have been. republicans will make the case he hasn't gotten the job done. it will focus on a group of folks that have shrank and are really small. the one thing that is different than 32 years ago is we have become so hyper partisan where people run to their quarters and they have social media that is misguiding on both sides. need to get back to talking to all americans about things that matter to them. going back to trump, folks are sick and tired of the sick and tired and it feels like nobody is doing anything to help them. the numbers are alarming, but what we have been seeing is that there is a movement towards joe

biden that i didn't think would happen this early. it is a good thing for democrats. guest: don't think you're wrong and a lot of points. i think 20% of independents is a low number. if you combine those numbers with the 70% of americans that don't want him to run and the 50% of democrats that don't want him to run, that is what we looked at when we try to get your base and your supporters. and chuck's point of having the swing voters has been shrinking. it has shrunk quite a bit and those are people that you really do need a leader and someone in the country that fights for every single person and that never backs down and really does reach out to every single voter and talks to them about the things they care about.

about parental controls over schools, public safety, the economy. the most important issue is the economy and public safety. we have the republicans and the biden team will have that with voters. there is a strong argument that republicans have a better position to handle the economy to actually get the economy back moving without inflation. guest: i think a really important thing to ground this is something we don't know, we don't know who the republican will be. it matters greatly if it is donald, desantis or nikki haley. voter in your asking the question two, that vote changes when it is different on the republican side. host: i want to get to the age question but let's go to the phone lines.

a reminder, republicans, (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. we are going to louisville, kentucky, david on the republican line. what is your question or comment? caller:. how are you? host: good. go ahead. caller: it is not about republican or democrat. when a person blatantly lies that we created 12 million new jobs, that is lying. biden came in when the economy was locked down with no jobs. now all of the jobs are coming back. that is the 12 million jobs. those jobs were on lock down and now they are coming back. he is using the jobs in lockdown as if they created them, which they didn't create. people need to be honest with themselves and quit saying trump

this or biden this, because the economy is bad. i go all over the country with my job and i see it everywhere i go. prices at restaurant, fuel, grocery store, it is all over the place. how anybody can say the economy is great, we are doing this and that and putting more money in people's pockets, he is lying. people have to ask themselves, it is not about politics but what about the truth. host: saw you shaking your head. guest: i think is dead on and i think it is funny that the white house has put out the press releases of the number of jobs that the biden administration has created. it shows the last couple presidents and then a massive bar that this administration have that eight created. he is correct that most of these work and shut down because of

the lockdown of covid. a lot of these jobs were lucky to come back. we are on the way back, thanks to the administration prior that started moving things in that direction. it is wild to think the biden administration taking credit for the jobs coming back. guest: there is something about simple math. when you create 12 million jobs from when you started, it is still 12 million jobs matter where they came from. unemployment is at an all-time low. i go by milk and bread it is higher than it was in that is due to supply chains and other things. i worry about americans in rural america, i run -- i understand we have to run to our partisan corners, but are some of them from covid and low-paying?

i will admit to that but we have to find a solution to make sure the jobs we are creating can protect the family. host: our next caller is will in baltimore on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i love your new look. your hairstyle is beautiful. both parties are to blame for the conditions the country is in. the wealthy have never paid their fair share of taxes and we really need to reduce military spending. both parties are to blame. governor desantis is the most polarizing figure in politics. he is anti-women's rights, anti-lgbtq, and let's be honest. joe biden is too old to run for president again. the democrats need to get a fresh face and why not look to someone like congresswoman

cortez. we need to get more progressives to straighten this country out. thank you. host: i was going to start with the first part of his comment, but i will ask you, what is your response when people say biden is wrong and he can't win reelection? guest: i think when i started the conversation about there is no hiding that biden is 80 years old and donald trump is 76 and desantis is in his 40's. if you put folks on stage against each other, you have two old men going at it and we have done that before and i think joe biden has a good shot to win. if they republicans nominate someone else it a new playbook, not that they would win.

there is the message that biden is an older gentleman and he is. if you think about running the country, i still think joe biden can do that and you will see over time, like you saw in the u.s. house, a change in leadership. we did it with nancy pelosi and leadership. host: connor, the caller also said they think desantis is wrong. i knew you represent a pac but you are here on the strategist side and not necessarily representing desantis but what is your response to that? guest: governor desantis created a wonderful situation where freedom really holds true and is strong, from the time he was first elected to his reelection by the points that proved that the people in florida understand

that governor desantis did a phenomenal job making sure people had it freedoms and that ranges all the way through covid, being able to send your kids to school to fight against the absolutely ridiculous woke points of view. they do not represent the american people, but a large volume yelled quite a bit about a lot of these ideas. the media covers it and it makes it seem like everyone believes in these very, very strong, wild new ideologies and that is not true. governor desantis made sure florida was free for everyone and people can live there. now he is going to talk about what he will do for the rest of the country. guest: what geithner is talking about is interesting when you think about the political dynamics of the country. florida is a unique place.

i did a lot of work in florida and my mom and sister live in florida. i think folks will look at florida and know it is different from the rest of the country. not different in the working-class and there are hard working folks of all colors down there but this is a debate you will see on the national scale. folks have underestimated joe biden since he was running. nobody thought he could beat donald trump. you can talk about him being 90 years old but he keeps winning. it seems like a good formula, especially since he is running against trump again. host: let's get into the age topic before we go back to the phone lines. this is video from president biden last night at the white house correspondents association dinner. he cracked jokes about his age. [video clip] pres. biden: i get that age is a completely reasonable issue.

everyone, even the new york times, headlines, why is advanced age of big issue? i love that guy. i should do an interview with him. [laughter] you might think i don't like robert.. that is simply not true. how can i just like a guy that makes me look like harry styles? they say i am ancient. i say i am wise. they say i am over the hill. done limit would say that is a man in his prime. [laughter] host: so biden got big laughs by

making jokes as own expense about his age. we are going to bring of an nbc poll from just last week and asks -- how much is age a factor 48% said it was a major factor, 21% said minor and 29% said not a factor at all. i am going to start with you, chuck. we just saw that the polls showed it was a factor, how is the campaign dealing with this? guest: i have been watching the way they pivot. the study oath sides. and you see them leaning into the underestimation of joe biden. what you saw it last night is brilliant because you want to make him relatable. you want to make him uncle joe and not that he is 80 years old.

he reminds people but i am an old man, but guess what i have gotten done. then people said he still got that done and is still old and makes fun of it and slurs his words. you lean into what makes you different and you make it charming -- charming. they talk about the underestimation of joe biden and what he has gotten done. will that work? i don't know, but that is the strategy they are working and i would tell them to make him relatable. host: connor, how do republicans deal with the issue knowing that donald trump is leading in the polls and he is 76. he is four years younger but he is still up in age as well. guest: absolutely, and looking back at the last election, the biden campaigned from his

basement. that is a thing he is not going to be able to do this time around. so seeing how he can do on the campaign trail will be a whole new world. he set in his basement and zoomed in meetings and different groups and that is fine and it worked out well for him. he was able to win from his basement. but seeing him on the grind through new hampshire or south carolina, bouncing super tuesday and around the country is going to be a real drag and challenge. i am interested to see how that works out. it is something we will be paying attention to. the shuffling around and the understanding what appears to be where he is is something voters will look at.

donald trump is playing golf still, bouncing around and when his thing there are a lot of other opportunities for republican candidates that have announced or maybe announcing or thinking about running. we are seeing this change. republicans are showing a different approach to this than just an old white guy. host: john in florida on the independent line, what is your question or comment? caller: yes, florida is the state. right now it is not a good state. i am an educator and an independent. if i had to vote now, it wouldn't be for trump or desantis, because they are right wing nuts. right now the only thing they are doing in florida is fight

disney, and ban books. they say 18 to 20.21 by, that's true but it is a falsehood. the only reason he won by that because the independence voted for desantis which we regret. charlie crist was a person who flip-flopped. if you are going with those two, desantis and trump, that is a democratic win. host: connor, how do you respond? guest: taking a look at where people are moving, people have been moving out of liberal states and out of california, new york and moving florida. that is another point that he has acted as governor has been proven and not only does it work

well for florida, it works so well that people in other states are moving to florida as well. host: rehman from north carolina on the republican line -- raymond from north carolina on the republican line. caller: about the economy, you have to keep a couple things in mind. the first thing joe biden did was choke off the oil and the driving force of our economy. he says he encourages equality for everybody, but all he talks about is white supremacy, white supremacy. he doesn't want to talk about the real issues, is going on in the democratic run cities. black people in these cities are being slaughtered and there is a genocide going on and he is not talking about that.

he wants to talk about white supremacy but it is like people killing black people. the dead bodies are going down the streets in chicago and baltimore this and know is talk about that. they want talk about the fact that the children in the schools being educated as far as you don't have to be a boy if you don't want to be or a girl if you don't want to be inputting these sexually explicit books in high prairies. the department of education is way out of control and they need to be disbanded and they need to bring the education by people in the state level decide how to

educate with math, science, arithmetic and have state level control the education of the children. they are bringing all of these people in from the southern order and they say the southern border is secure and everybody knows the southern border is not secure. in the cities that are being destroyed economically, the people moving out are the people that can afford to move out and the people that can afford to out of the ones that are able to create businesses. who is going to be left? the poor people who can't feed their family and what are they going to do? host: how should they respond?

guest: when i talk to voters i say, what do you want to see. they want, what are they going to do for me? how is this government going to do something to help me. help me fix my rose, pick up my trash, make sure i am safe in the neighborhood. i live in downtown washington, d.c. and what i hear from people is they are looking for results in their local government. is it guns, kids, funding for afterschool programs? folks are working on that and are frustrated by that we are seeing that as a problem and we saw that in the mirror election in chicago and other places.

it is the trifecta of the issues he talked about. he said crime, lgbtq issues in the schools and immigration are the things we see republicans talk about. is a way to distract working-class values that democrats want to help with and don't get sidetracked by issues that not everyone cares about. if you say -- state focused on what you are doing, people will stay behind you. guest: i say it focus on what we want to talk about and how we are planning to help out our constituents. that is what people want to hear it. i also live here in d.c., and the crime has changed from when i first moved here 10 to 15 years ago to now, it is

different parts of the city and it is very troubling. we see the talk around gun laws and being able to pass gun laws to stop funds. connecticut is a state with some of the most laws in the entire country. 80% of gun charges are either dismissed or chosen not to prosecute in the state. it is a bizarre situation and they have so many laws but none of them are enforced. 80% of people that get caught with an illegal firearm and doing a crime with a firearm, 80% of them are not charged and nothing is done or prosecuted for. there is no recourse or punishment for many of these people with guns. can have as many laws is you want but if you're not enforcing -- as you want, but if you're not enforcing them then what is the point of this at all?

guest: i think there is a way to keep our cities safe. host: let's go to new jersey now, cindy on the democratic line, you are on. caller: connor, we just spoke about guns and immigration. i would like to know what the republican party agenda is for that and how will this help the american people and please be specific. guest: on immigration, what are the main things that has always been talked about in the republican party is securing the border. republicans have done a lot of work to secure the border, to actually be able to put us in a situation where we know who is coming across the border. i don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to make sure if you're going to come into

this country and seek asylum, you need to come through a port of entry. that is how we know who is in this country. let's remove the specter of terrorists coming into the country, drugs coming into the country. let's just take one thing at a time. if you are going to come across the border, come through a port of entry. that is something many republicans can stand by and we will push to make sure as republicans gain more control and hopefully take back the senate and the white house, make sure that is one of the first things to do is secure the border for the country's safety and for a very understanding of who is in our country at any given time. host: let's go to the independent line, carol is coming from montgomery, alabama. caller: good morning. host: good morning. go ahead. caller: i would like to say that

i love what the democrats are doing for our country. i also voted for vice president kamala harris and president biden. and his age is not affected to me, because i have read all the books by the two african-american women that lived to be over 100 and they still had all their marbles and faculties. note for a fact that in the an elderly person and so have all of your faculties. so president biden's age is not a factor to me. i would vote for him again. i would prefer kamala harris again. i think the reason why people in america, some of them, especially on the republican side, do not want president biden back in office and get

reelected because they are afraid that vice president kamala harris, an african-american woman, would become president. host: let's get your response, chuck. how much of the concern about biden's age do you think has to do with vice president harris? guest: i think it may have some to do with it. in most elections -- and almost all elections, nobody is voting for the vice president. they aren't motivating on either side of the party. the thing that is really important to remember is that democrats have a problem and the problem is, my sister and north carolina speaking eloquently about the topic of age is right. i am going to be with joe biden

but i am an old man when it comes to the consensus and what i am worried about is what we do to motivate young people to vote. it isn't because it joe biden is older but that is the problem democrats have. republicans have a built in cushion they have middle-aged folks that love to vote republican again. we rely on the older folks and the younger folks weren't reliable -- who aren't reliable all the time. it is a unique role that ms. harris could play as an african-american and mixed race woman and a lot of the new generations like my children and grand children are mixed race. i think they could use her if they use her strategically to be the motivating factor to the next generation of voters that we must have if we are going to continue to win elections. host: let's go to texas.

daniel is on the republican line. caller: what i am worried about -- donald trump, for his first two years we had the best economy. donald trump, first two days in office, he drained our will reserves. host: daniel, we are hearing a hard time hearing you.

i am so sorry. i will bring up a question we received via text message. this is josh from d.c. who is a democrat. his question is, there have been a small but noticeable shift from hispanic voters from democrat to republican. what can the biden campaign do reach hispanic voters more effectively going into 2020 for. i will let you start, chuck but then also i want you to talk about that, connor. guest: we get to work inside of the polling and let me set the parameters. there was not a shift in the last election to republicans by latinos. but in 2020, there was a large shift to republicans by latinos. as a democrat, i need folks to understand that this happened.

historically through time, 70% of all latinos voted for democrats and 30% voted for republican fins as a whole. if you edit in, it is 70-30. for 2020, he moved to 68 and almost 60-40. in, you saw that flatten out. there was no big movement and the reason was you saw the desantis never had a huge spike in support for him and republicans in florida. i acknowledged that actually happened but in places like arizona and fatah where democrats ran strong campaigns, you saw latinos flatten out and have a big spike for democrats in arizona and nevada. if you take that spike and combined or the public in florida and you get the flattening of the line. what bothers me is to my earlier point that the average age of a latino in america is 27.

it means we are just younger. there is not the lineage and the white or black communities. we are a persuadable universe of folks younger than any other emma graphic who can be more persuaded to vote or republican if you see them competing for that vote. the biggest difference in this is republicans now for the first time in my 32 years are competing for this vote and it started with donald trump. when i was running races going back to in richard's, republicans would not go into the hispanic neighborhoods because they knew they were democratic. now you see them doing information to the latino community because they understood a big part of our electric is marginal. guest: absolutely governor desantis did a fabulous job with hispanic voters in south florida and we saw it in other places as

well. chuck brings up a good point and it came down to candidate quality and the 2022 election. we had some candidates that made it through the primary that really were not candidates that could hold up to a general election audience and they didn't spend as much time working with the latino communities and working that vote in those communities and that really did see some change in congressional races that were expecting and we saw some good pickups and a strong effort in texas of republicans winning the seats in very hispanic districts. we also see republicans have taken a lot of effort into getting into the communities and being in the communities. committee offices were set up where they direct outreach and work at community centers across the country in hispanic unities.

they do the work not just for elections when i need people to vote, but throughout the year and year after year being in that community and understanding the needs of the community and finding ways and solutions that republicans can bring to the community. hispanics are the ones registering more new businesses in any other demographic in this country. these people are opening their own companies and hiring them and understanding the impact of taxes and how that affects them and employing their neighbors and friends and community. host: our next color is it debbie in philadelphia on the democratic line. -- caller is debbie in philadelphia on the democratic line. caller: the problem is the electoral college. you can put anyone on the republican side and you are not winning.

the issue is the electoral college. the lady asked the republican representative what would you do about crime. didn't answer that question. might problem with the democratic representative on the panel, tell why the inflation problem exists. say it why the gas prices are like they are. you democrats never give out the total information. do that now that you have the chance to do it. we all know this is global, but you never say it, never say it. and nobody is voting for the democratic party for any republican. i don't care if he just got out of pampers and are now old

enough to run for president. host: chuck, she said democrats don't do a good job explaining the economy. do you agree? guest: i would agree, not totally. i was told in east texas that made me think, democrats are smart people, educated people. democrats have been to a lot of schooling and sometimes democrats will bring a policy book to a knife fight and that is our problem. republicans show up wanting to fight and we show up wanting to explain the policy. sister has a great point. we should have to have an answer as a party for why red and milk cost more. it is not the democrats fault not specifically the republicans fault. we should say we are in this global economy and we just out of the pandemic that there have

to be factors we explain to people why it is. it is not because donald trump or joe biden didn't do this thing but the pandemic because the bottleneck of things getting in that made things go up that couldn't get here. i use that when i saw that happening and it was so frustrating. why are we having to ship everything into this country that we use? this was a grand opportunity to talk about building things in america where we weren't so reliant on shipping in every little thing that we needed and i think that is the new opportunity that democrats should use. i see mainly donald trump using this verbiage of buying america where they went that way in the 1980's and 1990's because the american people want to see things made in america again. guest: they love to see things

built in america. that means they go to work every day, unless it is a global situation like with oil and gas, it means it's going to be cheaper to get it from where it is built, made into your home. we are also going to talk about building in america and creating manufacturing. we need to talk about energy independence and being able to produce the natural gas and oil that we know we have here that is ready to be used. that is part of the conversation . if we are going to build here we have to be able to power here. host: let's go to morehead, minnesota now. keith is on the independent line. caller: good morning, everyone. i am looking at this as kind of,

where are we going to go with the third party? i guess back when rush limbaugh and newt gingrich and all that turned it into hyperdrive for us against them attitude, we have to annihilate the enemy, which is the republican party or the democrat party, when are we going to realize that this is a unified team, us against them should be the united states against china, korea, north korea, or russia. whoever has the executive office is going to be the offense for this season. we need to start unifying and quit blaming everybody on the others of the aisle or come up with a third party that will probably pull up the middle of the road which will be the majority. it is not the extreme right or extreme left. once we get that unified, quit attacking each other.

the republican party, shame on you guys right now with what you are doing with all these attacks . on the other end, we have to use common sense and we can't give everybody everything. connor and chuck, i would appreciate it if you could give me a good explanation why we should go to a third party. host: my will let you start -- connor, i will let you start. guest: i don't think there is much of an appetite for a third party. when we kicked off the show, a small number of voters are swing voters. i don't see that as a direction we could go as a country. for that to happen there would have to be some major leader of this country that would come out and really change the way we talk about politics. that is more likely to happen for someone who is a strong

leader or becomes a strong leader and can get that independent and swing voter and then we'd have a situation are either in the republicans or democrats, the republicans is the growing party. i see something much more likely. guest: only half of america participate in the elections as it stands. there are even less that participate in the primaries. the point i want to make is to the friend from minnesota who brings up a great point i would say i agree that most of americans who are just americans, not voters and primary voters are in this group that are like, let's just get things done. there is a partisan edge that connor talks about which is fine and true, honestly, the far right and far left and folks who have been democrats, i would be far left democrat because i vote in every primary i have been in.

just like many folks in the civil rights movement or whatever movement you were in. because of the building behind us in congress and we have done redistricting where we have taken congressional seats and made them democratic seats or republican seats. there is never any election for those seats and those collections happen in the primary or a small group of people, mainly the staunch republicans or staunch democrats participate to elect that representative. because of that, there is never an opportunity for anybody who is really that third-party middle-of-the-road folks because 90% of all the elections are determined in the primaries because of redistricting. that is why you see the senate going back and forth because they are statewide elections, marginal, blue-collar, latino,

all these different demographics that get their voice heard cc different candidates and why you see -- get there voices heard and different candidates. republicans and democrats, that is why you won't see a third party until we change how we run our primary practices. host: next on the line in sturgis, south dakota, dylan on the republican line. caller: good morning, everyone. i see a lot of people lined up for food over here. the other day they had 12 lines of people waiting for two or three hours. we have a lot of veterans and nobody has mentioned veterans. i am a disabled vet.

i did two years in vietnam. i grew up out west, whether it is a lot of latinos, and they are good people and they work hard. how about the pipeline? a lot of jobs were lost from the pipeline. that is about all i have to say. i am disgusted with this whole thing. my wife died about two months ago, and pretty rough -- and it is pretty rough. host: dylan just said life is rough for him. it seems like he represents a lot of americans. what would you say to him? guest: thank you for your service and i am sorry for your loss. folks are going through a lot and i don't think we as candidates talk about this enough.

there is a class of americans that have done early well and even better during the pandemic. that is almost disgusting to me to think about how much folks were suffering in the most wealthy among us did so well while so many of us were suffering and standing in food lines. we are the richest country in the world at the richest point in history and we should figure out ways to help folks get to a connor was just saying. the fastest growing of opening new businesses. i am my ancestors greatest ambitions and dreams. i get to own a business and i'm here in washington, d.c. and i am on tv. my grandmother wouldn't have fathomed that. we have to get back to what america was built on and standing in food lines is not what america is. folks should have the ability to make all the money they want to make and work hard. i have worked hard and had

success and have a wonderful family. but folks that are struggling to get by are sometimes i think because they don't have a lobbyist and a lawyer they get forgotten about and the government should be doing more to help those and make sure we can guest: chuck has made great points that we need to be out in every single community. so much of this happens in this beltway in d.c. most decisions are made by people who do not spend enough time in their districts talking to their voters, people who are directly affected by the laws and decisions we make here. i think that is why we have elections. one rate thing about elections is we are going to have our candidates out there with the american people. that is something that makes me happy. we are going to have people having those conversations and debates. host: our last collar is innate

in baltimore on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: how are you all? host: we are good. what is your question or comment? caller: chuck, i do not despise you -- but you are still conflicted as far as joe biden. the way even with his age biden appeals to the youthful voters, policies, policies, policies, which he does have. your talk on crime was bad because you just went on about what the democrats are not doing, but as far as crime, it is more than dust -- just democratic cities. you are dismissive of kamala harris. when someone says -- joe biden because she is going to be vice

president, that has been every, since she has been vice president, papers as far as democrats and republicans attacking biden about his age. i want to give a shout out to dark bryden -- dark biden, meet dark brandon. that was brilliant at the correspondents dinner. with desantis, exactly how this foreign trip go, i hear it is going horrible. thank you. host: i will let you have quick closing, chuck. guest: i like joe biden. i voted for joe biden. i ran the joe biden super pac. i spent $12 million to make sure we got him elected and make sure latinos would vote for him. , harris, google chuck -- in new york times up. i wrote an op-ed how democratic party was not using her to her full expectations. lastly on crime, i live in washington, d.c.

i love my neighborhood. i want my amazing fiance to be safe walking to the metro. host: quick closing thoughts, connor? guest: we started talking about 2024 elections. very excited about this. there is a lot a movement, a lot of great conversations both with republicans and democrats. very excited to watch how this plays out and be a part of it. host: connor mcguire and chuck will chuck, thanks for joining us this morning. later, we are going to have a discussion about fox news'tucker carlsen and cnn's don lemon, both let go for different reasons. we will talk about that and what it means for both networks with depaul university's jeff mccall. open forum is next. start calling in. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8001.

independents, (202) 748-8002. ♪ >> watch video on demand anytime online c-span.org and try our points of interest feature, a to that uses markers to guide you to newsworthy and interesting highlights of our key coverage. use points of interest anytime online at c-span.org. ♪ live sunday, may 7, attorney and author philip k howard will be our guest on in-depth to take your calls on government and legal reform in america. mr. howard has written six books including the collapse of the common good and his bestseller, the death of common sense. his latest book is a critique of public-sector unions. join the live conversation sunday, may 7 at noon eastern on book tv, c-span2.

♪ >> book tv every weekend on c-span two features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. former bridgewater associate ceo and 2022 u.s. senate candidate david mccormick outlined his vision for a better future for america with his book. on afterwards, ada chen author of mob street reflect on her family's american experience across five generations and the pact the chinese exclusion act had on her family and community. she is interviewed by gail university history professor mary lou. watch book tv every weekend on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. ♪ >> dr. edna medford is a

well-known historian and expert on andrew jackson and abraham lincoln. she spent eight years as chair of the history apartment that howard university in washington. she recently appeared before an audience at purdy university in connection with the c-span center for scholarship and engagement. over the past 20 years, she has served as a member of c-span's advisory team for the networks periodic surveys ranking u.s. presidents. dr. edna grain medford on this episode of book notes plus. book notes plus is available on the c-span now free mobile app or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with open forum. call now. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002.

our first caller of this segment is gordon in kansas city, missouri on the republican line. what is your thought for the day? caller: good morning. i would like to put something to bed that people keep bringing up and bringing up and bringing up. the trump tax cuts. after the 2017 jobs act, i received $2400 more in my tax refund. i am 74 years old. i guess 83% of it went to the rich. some of it went to me. i appreciated that for three years. i want to tell you something else about the democrats. they have got their handout, they are all parasites and the guy you just had on said when i talked to my constituents, i went to know what they think the government should do for them.

what happened to do something for your country? john f. kennedy said that. he said it is better to do something for your than sit there and let your country do something for you. no one is going to get rid of social security. thank you. are you going to be on msnbc right after this show? host: all right. joe in florida is our next caller on the democratic line. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes. caller: great. i enjoyed listening to the commentators from the previous show. i wanted to piggyback on one of the comments i think the gentleman from north carolina made regarding the crime rate in some of these cities and what is not being discussed. yes, there is a lot of crimes in major cities. black on black crime. if you want to peel back the

onion, the root cause of that crime -- and i like to say, you can draw that to slavery. economic conditions that people live in. if you think the middle class is catching hell, imagine what the lower class individuals are catching. to solve that problem, now that you have election cycle, which, to me -- you see people running for office and not promising everything. when they get in there, they do not do anything. what am i talking about? even though i identify as a democrat and i voted for the current folks in office, i really do not think they have done anything for the black folks. you have got to look at the root cause of problems. there is discussions about reparations. i honestly think people should have leverage right now and say, if you do not fix these problems, these crime problems, if you do not have economic ways

to fix it -- look at it, people can print money in the billions to bring other folks here. it has been a bunch of billions to bring the afghani's. ukraine is fighting, let's bring billions of dollars. yet, you have people suffering in this united states of america. something to think about. that is all i have, thanks. host: let's go to alexandria, minnesota. marlene on the independent line. you are on. caller: good morning. i understand this is an open forum. i would like to voice my opinion on budget. the budget that everybody screams and hollers about. we spend billions and billions and billions of dollars all over. but, when are the checks and balances going to ever, ever be thought through? when we send money to the states

and to all of these places, does anybody check to get a receipt that the money we sent to each state or each country is spent the way it is supposed to be? even here in the united states, we do not -- like, all of this covid money that just got fraudulently sent out to people in prison and everything else. does nobody check anything? i was a bookkeeper my whole life. i am 78 years old. i just cannot believe that all of this money is wasted. it is wasted. nobody checks anything. just like for people that are on -- not social security, but when they have special needs or whatever. there are so many people that claim headaches so they get a social security check or a

disability check is what i am trying to say. they are capable of working, but yet, because they had a drug problem or they have a little bit of a back -- thousands and thousands of jobs that people can do that, instead of getting a free government check, i just do not understand it. years ago, it was never like that. when you were unemployed, you had to go physically out and look for a job and have somebody sign a paper that you were there and their name and their number that the unemployment office could reach. it is not like that anymore. they pick up a phone and say, you answer these automated questions. did you go out and look for work? yes. ok, then your check gets sent. this is crazy. there are no checks and balances in this country anymore at all and i believe that is why our economy is the way it is and

things are as tough as they are. thank you very much. i appreciate having the opportunity to talk. host: let's go to the republican line now. mike is calling from anderson, indiana. caller: yeah. yeah. i would like to talk about the fentanyl deaths that we have in the united states. they say it is 300 a day. it is more like 400 a day. it keeps climbing. also, would like to address the police stations, the chinese police stations that we have right here in the united states. how long is it going to be before the whole united states is run by china? letting china by land here near our airbases and all over the

united states. all of this is hid from the united people. -- the american people. something needs to do something about the fentanyl problem we have. i have had two family members die from it. it is not just a drug problem we have, it is murder. it is pure murder is what it is. also, we need to try to get the -- something done with all the wasteful spending, like this last lady said. we've got so much wasteful spending going on. both parties, democrat and republican, just wasteful spending. checks and balances, you know? i appreciate you listening to

me. host: all right, mike, appreciate your call. let's go to neil, calling from scranton, pennsylvania on the democratic line. caller: good morning. i have a comment about the deficit. we should not be $30 trillion in debt. i blame both parties. they are not -- all politicians are not doing their job. they are not doing what they get paid for. the trump administration added $7 trillion to the debt. if you cannot pay your bills, you do not reduce your income. he cut taxes to all the rich. we cannot pay our bills. and you are going to cut the taxes? before trump, wework $20 trillion -- the politicians are failing this country miserably. we should not be, they should change the tax structure. a flat tax, everybody pays 20%. everybody pays like 15%, you

would wipe out the deficit. there is no deductions in your tax, you do not get the right off -- to write off your cars, these businesses. you pay the tax and we would pay the deficit right down. thank you for taking my call. host: let's go to allen park, michigan. zach on the independent line. caller: good morning, c-span. as far as i know, i think there is three declared candidates who have filed their run for the democratic party nomination in 2024. did you know that? host: yes. go ahead. caller: yeah, so you know those candidates have filed three candidates? i have only heard about one. i watch "washington journal" every day. i have heard about republican potential candidates who have not even filed, or have not declared they are running. i think that is fine speculation.

on the democratic side, there are three filed candidates. president joe biden was the last one to file. the first one was believed marianne williamson. second, robert f. kennedy, jr.. i watch "washington journal" every day. i do not think these other candidates have gotten much of a mention. i think it is the total antithesis of democracy. it is in the democratic party name. if they want to give it to joe biden and you in the media are going to collude with them, i understand you use appear on msnbc a lot. i do not know if you still do. if you are pretty much a democrat and going with the democratic national committee and they are not going to hold a primary election, i think that is very bad for our political system. host: all right. as a reminder, you can go to our website c-span.org to look up our video archives including past appearances by robert f. kennedy, jr. we are going to go back to the

phone lines. james in san diego, california on the republican line. though ahead. caller: good morning. i would like to start off with your first segment which talked about the deficit. i would like to go to the deficit issue. how did we get the deficit to start off with while we went to the budget, didn't we? the budget was performed last year, when everyone -- when all of the republicans and democrats and the independents wanted to race home for christmas instead of doing what they were supposed to do during the year and voting independently on the 12 different topics that were there and baiting them. -- and debating them. until they got the omnibus bill, that is where they throwed everything together without consideration for the deficit. we have, the republicans, democrats and independents, to blame for that. you want to talk about the tax situation? very interesting about the tax situation. the people that have money create jobs.

the corporations that are supported by the shareholders create jobs. those jobs create employment. employment creates taxes. if you want to talk about raising the money on corporations that pay retirement checks, every union in this country belongs to a corporation by the ownership of shares. shares is what you get in a dividend check in your retirement check. you talk about raising taxes on corporations, you going to cut your own independent -- your own dividend you're getting from that corporation. thank you very much. i appreciate you hearing me. i hope you take it into consideration. the budget, that is the start of the deficit. host: all right. our next caller is ted calling from pocatello, idaho on the democratic line. you are on, ted. caller: yes, -- is not that bad.

i was saying president biden, i would still vote for him. jobs are looking good. we have to do something about immigration. that is about it. host: that will be the end of open form. we are going to take a quick break and when we come back, depauw universities jeffrey mccall will be received -- will be discussing the recent firings at fox news and cnn and the future of the cable news landscape. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks. the house is not in session, but the senate will be in working on president biden's judicial nominations to u.s. circuit and strict courts. the senate judiciary committee will meet on tuesday to discuss ethics reform for the supreme court. chief justice john roberts was

invited to testify before the committee but declined. wednesday, a press conference with federal reserve chair jerome powell. thursday, avril haines rector of national intelligence and lieutenant general scott bayer talk about worldwide threats before the senate armed services committee. saturday, the coronation of king charles the third of england. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> tonight on q and a. presidential historian which in -- richard norton smith shares his biography of president ford. he talks about ford's personal life, antiestablishment politics as well as his efforts to heal thcotry following the watergate scandal and his

controversial decision to partner -- pardon richard nixon. >> fellow americans. our national nightmare is over. >> the irony about the phrase, whoever wrote it, is -- ford did not want to use it. ford thought, it was kicking a man when it was down. hartman made the case, no, in effect, you do not understand, mr. vice president. people need to hear this. they need to hear it from you. the final surprise is -- >> richard smith with his book, an ordinary man, tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a and our podcasts on our free c-span now app. ♪ >> "washington journal"

continues. host: we are back with depaw unit -- depauw university professor, jeffrey mccall, discussing recent firings of tucker carlton, don lemon and what the future holds for cable news networks. good morning, jeff. guest: good morning. host: thank you for joining us. how did you react to the news that tucker carlsen and don lemon had been let go, and what do you think about why they were let go? guest: my reactions to the two different firings were different. the tucker carlsen dismissal, if that is what they are going to call it, he left his show, was quite surprising given the circumstances. the don lemon situation maybe had been building over more months and maybe was not as much of a surprise. one of the reasons is that, don

lemon's ratings had not been that successful when he was in prime time on cnn. the ratings for his morning show had not necessarily picked up or been that favorable, either. on the other hand, tucker carlsen was fox news channel's highest rated personality. he was drawing in over 3 million viewers per evening. it is very rare for any media outlet to unload or dismiss their highest rated personality. when tucker carlson left, that was a shocking situation. i think with don lemon, there had been signals of troubles or the ice was cracking under his feet for a wild given the ratings performance. also, don lemon has had unflattering reports in the media. there was a variety report he did not work well with coworkers and there were other issues there. i think maybe there was a build up their that the don lemon situation was going to happen at

some point. actually, i think cnn had -- did don lemon a favor to keep them in the family, so to speak, when they removed him from his evening show and let him have a chance to restart in the morning. for tucker carlson, he is the highest rated personality and suddenly, is gone and there is no reboot or other opportunity for him. it is hard to know behind the scenes. i must say, there has been a lot of speculation on the internet. i do not think anybody really knows for sure. tucker carlson has been through a lot of ups and downs with fox news, not in terms of ratings. his ratings have been stable for a long time. clearly, he had taken on a lot of topics that probably made the executives at fox news cringe and he was quite autonomous and independent, which is one of the things that made his viewers really appreciate him. he had very loyal viewers. my guess is, there was probably

some sort of accumulation that there was some sort of sense that he was taking on topics or maybe heading in editorial directions that fox news did not want to go in anymore. who knows what all that would be. i know there has been some speculation the tucker carlson thing was related to fox news's legal trouble with the dominion lawsuit. it is hard to draw, to make those connections or make those dots connect. i think it had more to do with editorial control and the kind of independence tucker carlson wanted don aaron at certain points -- wanted on air and at some points, the executives were not willing to provide more. host: we will be talking about the state of cable news, don lemon and tucker carlson being let go. i went to let our viewers know the numbers to dial so you can call in with your question or comment on the topic. if you are in the eastern nor central time zone -- eastern or central time zone, you can call

us at (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is (202) 748-8001. you can start calling in now on this topic of the status of cable news with your question or comment. jeff, let's watch -- i want to get you to react. this is tucker carlson talking a few days after being let go by fox news. he posted a video on twitter. this is some of what he said. [video clip] >> the undeniably big topics, the ones that will define our future, get virtually no discussion at all. war, civil liberties, emerging science, demographic change, corporate power, natural resources. -- any legitimate debate over any of those issues, it has been a long time. debates like that are not permitted in american media.

both political parties and their donors have reached consensus on what benefits them and they actively collude to shut down any conversation about it. suddenly, the united states look very much like a one-party state. that is a depressing realization. it is not permanent. our current orthodoxies will not last. they are brain-dead. nobody actually believes them. hardly anyone's life has improved by them. this moment is to inherently ridiculous to continue. so, it will not. the people know this, that is why they are hysterical and aggressive. they are afraid, they have given up persuasion, they are resorting to force. it will not work. when honest people say what is true, calmly and without bears meant, they become powerful. at the same time, the liars who have been trying to silence them shrink and they become weaker. that is the iron law of the universe. true things prevail.

where can you still find americans saying true things? there are not many places left, but there are some. as long as you can hear the words, there is hope. see you soon. host: what did you make of tucker's video, and a you think he can remain an influencer without the fox news platform? guest: there is a lot to unpack in that short little message. one of the things we can see there is clearly, he thinks he is a crusader for truth. that was the theme of his show the last several years. he was taking on topics that other parts of the mainstream media would not necessarily take on. he did a lot of criticism of the corporate elite, which would include his own parent corporation. i think there is a lot to unpack and his message. clearly, i think he thinks he plans to keep speaking. it is unclear what timetable he

will be able to reengage. my sense is, the people who are loyal carlson tucker carlson followers will be eager to hear what he has to say going forward and are going to find him wherever he surfaces. it is worth noting that there are a lot of people out there in the political sphere who wants to talk about the issues of the day who do not have a platform on cable news or broadcast networks these days. those people go through the less traditional internet avenues. who would have thought a few years ago that joe rogan would have the platform he has? you think of a former fox personality, and nbc personality megyn kelly with her own online discussion program and commentaries. then shapiro for that matter, as well. there are a lot of people out there who are not going through the traditional avenue to reach viewers but are still making

their voices heard. frankly, tucker carlson will have plenty of opportunities to do that should he choose to go that direction. for people who worry about personalities like don lemon or tucker carlson being let go and what that does to them financially, they may have just as much opportunity to monetize their points of view and visions of the news of the world through the internet and they might have through a traditional cable channel or over the air channel. host: let's go to the phone lines now. as a reminder, if you are in the eastern or central region, your number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific region, (202) 748-8001. our first caller is perry calling from bellflower, california. go ahead, perry. caller: good morning. i was just curious. i know kevin mccarthy gave the january 6 footage to tucker carlson and his staff.

did fox confiscate that, or is he still in possession of that? guest: that is a great question. i am not sure anybody knows the answer at the moment. i would be surprised if tucker carlson had surrendered that. from what i am understanding, tucker carlson is still under contract to fox news. it was not particularly clear when mccarthy provided those videotapes of january 6, whether he was providing them to tucker carlson himself or to the channel. my guess is, tucker carlson still has those or access to those in some fashion. my guess is, we have not heard the end of what his analysis of that will be. one of the reasons i say that is, when he first got a hold of those tapes and promised he was going to be discussing those in his programs going forward, there was a big rollout on a couple of days where he had a lot of comments and showed videos and provided commentary.

then, that drifted off. we did not see much follow-up to that. there was a sense maybe that had been curtailed by the powers that be at fox news who were feeling like, this is a bridge too far. we have discussed this enough and they moved him on. as i mentioned before, tucker carlson was an autonomous person. i think that made him quite popular amongst his populist following. he was one of those guys in the public sphere who questioned the answers. i am not necessarily condoning everything he did for his tone in his programs, but i do think there is a role for journalists. you can make a case don lemon did that at cnn in his prime time show. there is a role for journalists who questioned the answers of the establishment. i think tucker carlson was trying to do that. it will be interesting to see if or when any of that january 6 video resurfaces in an extended

fashion. host: next on the line from san jose, california. tom, you are on. caller: hi, thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask why i do not have a choice, the choice of fox news. i pay $200 a month per -- for my cable for comcast. i do not watch fox news because i do not believe it is real news. i think it is propaganda. however, if there was a situation where i could eliminate that so they were not making buckets of money, if they actually had to account to the supply and demand market like everybody else does, then we would weed out propaganda machines like fox news. they are making a ton of money and are able to do and higher a lot of people and pay these guys extraordinary amount of money because they force people like me to pay for something i do not watch.

why don't we change that? why is that set up that way? guest: that is a great point. it is something i have written about over the years on my primary outlet for my media analysis columns, the hill. i have written for a number of outlets over the years. one of the things i criticize in the cable industry for a long time is, they are unwilling to go to what we would refer to as all a cart pricing, where cable viewers can pay for the channels they want to watch, they do not have to pay for everything they do not watch. i can understand your frustration. you do not watch fox news, you are paying with it every month whether you watch it or not. on the others things, people pay for espn and a lot of people do not watch sports. people pay for cnn, some people do not like that channel. i think that has been a game that has been run on the american consumer on the cable corporation over the years, it works to their advantage.

you are right. you pay for fox news every month whether you watch it or not. although my understanding is that cnn charges cable companies more per viewer than fox news. i think the cable industry is going to have to adapt at some point. i'm not sure when that is, but i hope it is sooner rather than later. i hope they will adapt all a cart pricing for the benefits of people like tom. host: all right. let's go to st. louis, missouri. mike, you are on. caller: both of you. i want to first of all say that i love watching c-span. pretty much on my tv 24 hours a day. both of these guys, don lemon and tucker carlson, i used to watch both of these shows until donald trump became president. that is when both of these shows became unbearable to me. don lemon would degrade trump all day long and trump's followers. he is just as bad as they are with the racist, bigoted

comments he would make. tucker carlson spreading all these propaganda and lies. i do not see how both of them lasted this long on their shows. i'm glad both networks got rid of them and good riddance to both. i hope i never see neither of them on tv ever again. they are a bad influence. it is unbearable. thank you guys. host: speaking of that, jeff, you recently wrote that you said cable news had bigger problems than just don lemon and tucker carlson. that was in a piece in the hill. what did you mean by that? guest: there are a couple of aspects to that. one is, and your listener there, the caller alluded to that, said cable news has -- i do not think there is any question about that -- help is maybe not the right word. cable news has contributed to the polarization of our nation, because particularly in the

evening -- by the way, i think there is a lot of -- a lot to be said for cable news. primarily in their news function during the day and to cover the news of the day, i am ok with all of that. i think all three major cable news channels do a respectable job. of covering congress, the news of the day. in the evenings, those programs go heavily into opinion and analysis. some of it gets pointed and i'm not sure that has been healthy. it has contributed to polarization. the caller clearly has identified that and has stopped watching, which is another issue. we do not want people to disengage from the news. we want people to watch the news. they are going to disengage when they feel like they are dealing with polarized content. one of the other issues the cable industry faces is cord cutting. these cable channels rely on having cable subscribers or satellite subscribers. a lot of people are getting away

from those services altogether. they're going to direct streaming and that sort of thing. that is why cnn and fox news have both tried to create streaming services. fox is population. cnn tried cnn plus, it did not get off the ground and has now been disbanded. the cable companies are going to have to figure out where they get their revenue from. we talk about how cable companies charge per subscriber. when cord cutting continues, there are going to be fewer subscribers to generate that revenue. cable news, i think, should be challenged to reinvent itself and try to say, maybe we should not be as polarizing in the evening or as opinion driven. maybe we should try to find ways to reach a broader news audience and get back to news your eight i must say, one of my concerns is the journalism industry generally has become too much activist driven that we have a lot of journalists now who see themselves as activists, rather

than as surrogates for the public to try and give us a fair shake and report the news as honestly and as factually as possible. that is more a question for the general news industry. the cable news industry is at the front of that discussion. i think that is why we see some of the frustration from many viewers out there. host: let's hear from monte, calling from providence, kentucky. caller: yes, good morning. i think mr. mccall is right on point about everything he said about the cable news, fox, cnn. i think all of it is pretty much when it comes to the network, it is about them making lots of revenue and lots and lots of money. when it comes to tucker carlson, i think he was bad for news because he was spreading a lot of racial stuff and lies. if don lemon was doing that on cnn then, he need to be fired also. both of them needed to be fired if they were misrepresenting our

country. it is a great country. america is a great country. we need to have people on both sides in the news to be making our country great instead of turning everything down in our country. -- tearing everything down in our country. thank you, washington journal. thank you, ma'am. i'm glad to see one the tv we need different people on the tv. thank you. host: did not mean to cut you off. we appreciate you. guest: monte makes a great point. one of the things we need to keep in mind here is, these cable companies are for-profit organizations. they are not serving the public necessarily. they are serving corporations. the estimates are, it is hard to get exact numbers. the estimates are in any given year, fox news makes $1 billion in profit for news core. in any given year, cnn may make up to $1 billion a year in

profit for their parent company, warner communications. these are for-profit organizations. that is not to say they cannot serve the public at the same time, but they are interested in how many people are coming and going, whether they have a product that advertisers will pay for. that is where i think there needs to be a greater merger of -- i understand journalists have to make a profit in order to function for us. but, i think there needs to be a -- for the professional standards of journalism and the nation. i think that is what that collar was talking about. we need to serve that nation. journalism is the job to do that. we are not serving it when we bring on polarized guests on polarized talkshows. there was a study from the center of media and public affairs that linked not only ash that looked at not only cable channels, but broadcast channels.

the general conclusion of that study was, broadcast news always seeks out the most polarizing people to be interviewed as part of their programs. they are not looking for people who are more in the middle or compromising or people who want to work across the aisle. they are looking to find somebody who is a staunch, right-wing person or staunch, left-wing person. those people take up the energy and air out of the room on a program like tucker carlson, on a program like -- on msnbc like lawrence o'donnell. i think the sense i am trying to point out here is, we need a broad discussion that not just look at polarizing persons, but look at people who are trying to move us forward as a nation. host: let's bring up jill, calling from columbus, ohio. you are on. caller: thank you. i was calling about the tucker carlson getting fired.

i wonder if that has to do with the dominion lawsuit. dominion released discovery documents. his text messages show he hates trump passionately, and also described trump as a disaster of a president. now that trump is the front runner of the republican primary , does it look like fox is trying to push desantis? his poll numbers have declined. i'm wondering if fox is making a business decision not to have tucker carlson on their. trump probably was upset over the fact that those texts were released and tucker said that about him. what are your thoughts on that? guest: that is an interesting thing. personally, i am not sure he dominion lawsuit led directly to cooker -- two tucker carlson's departure. the fox news executives would have known for a long time what was in his text as it is and

what his real dealings were on trump -- feelings were on trump. he has been criticizing corporate elites and other challenging topics for a long time. i am not sure the dominion thing led directly to that. i think it is interesting for people who observe fox to try to sort out, where are they going to go now? we have an election season where we have trump seeming to be the front runner in the republican primaries. does fox try to develop support for any one particular republican or not? i do not think there is any question in the evening, particularly the opinion hosts, our political activists. the question is, which republican bandwagon will they get on? i'm not sure necessarily that would be smart for them to get on any bandwagon at this point. it is still confusing as to why tucker carlson was dismissed. my own feeling is that probably

the -- the dominion thing was tangential, but probably not the key thing. host: i want to bring up a couple of text messages to get your response. the first is from kelly in indianapolis, indiana. tucker carlson and many like him will do just fine thanks to podcasts and social media. cable news better try to keep up. this went from carol in boston says, neither don lemon nor tucker carlson should have been terminated. we once had free speech and differing opinions once brought out healthy debate, dissent and sometimes reconciliations. we are silenced at many levels. what are your thoughts about those text messages? guest: both those text messages raise important issues. i think tucker carlson is going to be fine going forward. by the way, i think it is worth pointing out, i think fox news channel is probably going to be ok going forward as well. we have talked before about fox

news hosts who leave and what happens to fox news channel. there was a lot of hullabaloo when megyn kelly left and bill o'reilly left. when glenn beck left and people thought, fox is going in the wrong direction. viewers will disintegrate. that was never the case. it might be different with tucker carlson, but we will have to wait and see. fox news has taken a ratings hit over the last several days. because of the departure of tucker carlson. the question is, will those viewers to parting come back or will they find someplace else to go to? that remains to be seen. what -- one interesting observation is, right after tucker carlson left, the stock for news corporation took a deep dive. the stock price recovered as the week went on and the market price for fox news corporation is the same as it was the week before tucker carlson was

dismissed. to get to the other text about free expression, i am so pathetic to that text. the text or says, we want to support people speaking freely in the journalistic world. i think there could be something to be said that fox was trying to reel in tucker carlson, they didn't like his chance to speak what was on his mind or cover the subjects he was wanting to cover. maybe even they did not like the tone with which he was covering some of those. i think the concern for allowing free expression and independent journalism is probably more relevant for the tucker carlson departure than for don lemon. i think don lemon's departure was not so much they were removing him as a free-speech journalist activist as much as they realized his ratings were just not measuring up anymore. then, there was the side issue there were questions about whether he worked well internally with cnn staffers and

got along with the team, so to speak. in lemon's situation, it was ratings in workplace cooperation. with tucker carlson, i think there probably was a lot of concern about the issues he was taking on and the way he took those issues on that probably just got to be too much for the fox news executives to tolerate anymore. host: next up, we have sean in beachwood, new jersey. what is your question or comment, sean? caller: how are you? great show, by the way. you are an awesome host. basically, i think with tucker, he is -- he seems to be looked at advertisers that were on tucker carlson's show, he was towards the end, it had dwindled down from corporations to the mypillow guy and people like that. i think that is what spells the doom. even when he had the number one show, i think he needed the

revenue from those big corporations. the bad side to that is, they are the ones that are now capping speech. look at what happened with george stephanopoulos earlier this week with rfk junior, who was speaking against the vaccines and about the vaccine mandates. he wound up being attacked after his speech. he might be -- you should be able to speak about it. during the height of the pandemic, we were not allowed to talk about it. tucker is one of the few that did. i never found him to be racist, but i am white, he is white. i guess i do not know. i find don lemon to be -- i do not know. i felt like he was kind of, tit-for-tat the way he got fired. i do not know much about don lemon. it comes down to the corporations that are going to be dictating our freedom of speech going forward. that is bad, if you ask me. i will let you guys talk.

thank you for having me. host: your response? guest: that is an astute observation. the corporations that own these media outlets have to make money. to make money, they have got to have advertisers. as sean was mentioning, tucker carlson had trouble attracting advertisers. he survived a couple of advertiser boycotts. if you look at the advertising load on tucker carlson, it was not as big and was not the same advertisers you might have seen on fox news channel with special report with bret beyer or even with jesse waters show in the hour before tucker carlson. advertisers were skittish about supporting tucker carlson. having said that, when he is generating over 3 million viewers per night, fox news channel can say, we are willing to take this soft advertising and lack of revenue for that particular show because he brings so many people into the fox news tent.

the people who are watching fox news, or were watching at 8:00 with tucker carlson, many of them stuck around to watch fox news programming later in the evening. it is worth noting that since tucker carlson left last monday night, the ratings for the 9:00 show which is hosted by sean hannity have taken a big hit. sean hannity's average audience has been 500,000 to 600,000 viewers less than the week before when tucker carlson was his lead in. a lead in is very important. i think that is why fox news was willing to suffer the advertising concern or maybe the lack of advertising carlson carlson on tucker's program over the weeks. host: let's go to butler indiana now. walter, your question or comment. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i want to introduce myself. i think i am one of the most peaceful people in the united states. i have an antenna on my roof.

i have basic cable landline. i have never been on a computer. i have never been on a cell phone. all the news does is stir people up and get people aggravated. like the gentleman said, it is a big moneymaking operation. this gentleman can talk about the news and write a book you cannot change anything you hear in the news. i think news is just used to manipulate low intellect people, thinking that because if they go burble burble and jump all and down. people in the news junction are angry all the time. they are upset, wound up, jumping up and down. you have the left, the right, everybody gets in these tense and fights with each other. when they put you in the ground, none of this matter. i have never been so peaceful in my life. i submit to you folks, take your computers and cell phones, throw them away. cut your grass, love your family, clean your house.

pay your taxes. go every four years and vote and do the things you can control. if you cannot control it, why concern yourself with it? i pop on the news every once in a while to make sure i am on the same track. it is the same leaps. it is sad where we are. i got up this morning and my feet hit the floor. i was able to see, able to put on a fresh cup of coffee. i was chilly, i pushed a button to war my house. i am the luckiest guy in the world. i wish everybody would turn it all off. love your family, go for a bike ride, go do something. none of this matters. i was in a restaurant, they said, there is a train derailment in ohio. what am i supposed to do with that? i am sorry. now, i have one noise in my head. it is moneymaking. everything is moneymaking. as soon as you turn it on, they get you angry. you join a club, a group, you pay to think it matters but none of this matters in the world

except being the best person you can be. have love in your heart and do not judge anybody else because you've got plenty of issues with your life. in a country where you have a cell phone and you press a button and somebody brings you food, you have no problems. god bless you, folks. take my advice. get a piece of property. get a trailer. love your family. we are not that important. none of this matters. god bless you folks. host: you have written a book titled viewer discretion advised, taking control of mass media influences. do you agree with the caller that part of taking control is logging off? guest: absolutely. i love that color. i'm glad he is peaceful. we all need to be more peaceful. he makes a great point, which is supported in social science research. there is a notion that people who consume more news actually are angrier than people who

consume less news. it is not a direct cause and effect necessarily, but there is a term for that called the mean world syndrome. basically, it says the more news you consume, the meaner you think the world is and the more aggravated and more anxious you become. i think there is a lot to what that caller said. when you watch the news, it makes you anxious. sometimes, disconnecting from that is helpful. i guess my sense is, we do not want a whole nation of news bystanders. people need to keep track of the news. i think that is where the news industry itself good step forward and try to help provide news that is not so polarizing more determined to upset people. there was a time in the 1960's when news was still important then. we had difficult issues, but the nation tuned in to watch walter cronkite, he was reassured going -- reassuring.

it is worth thinking about, does the news hype the attention of our nation as opposed to try to make us more peaceful like the caller? i might add one other thing. does this all matter at all? i think it is worth us pointing out here that maybe all of the handwringing and upset about cable news is exaggerated a little bit. cable news is important. it helps set a news agenda. news hounds go there. they serve a function, certainly. keep in mind, we are talking about tucker carlson as the number one rated host on fox news, which is the leading channel for cable news in terms of ratings. he usually only had three to three and a half million people on any given night in a nation of 330 million people. that is not huge. walter cronkite as i mentioned before, he would get over 30 million people per night to watch his program.

cable news might be getting exaggerated in terms of its significance or its importance in the world sphere or the public sphere because even though a lot a people watch it and find it important, there are a lot of other places people are getting their information. a lot from social media now, of course. i do not inc. we should exaggerate the importance of cable news or the role it plays on our society. it does play a role. even the major networks evening news broadcasts are getting between 7 million and 9 million viewers per night. lester holt may have a bigger role than somebody like tucker carlson or don lemon. host: as we come to a close, i did want to ask along those same lines, what do you think the future cable news anchors will or should look at, not just with tucker carlson and don lemon being fired, but we have had other famous stars like bill o'reilly and chris cuomo.

what should a future cable news anchor look like? guest: there is a lot of money to to be made by having these opinion people in the evening. i understand that is prime time. we want people to chase the news to get the confirmation bias they seek. that is the strategy on msnbc and fox news. cnn has been that case for a long time, because when jeff zucker was the chair of cnn, cnn was leading the trump resistance. cnn has a new president. there are signs he is wanting to bring cnn back to its roots when it was more of a news service rather than an opinion service. it will be interesting to see where that goes. i think it is worth thinking whether fox news is going to look for another hardened opinion person to take carlson tucker carlson's place, or maybe they should look for somebody who is more respected as a more traditional journalist, rather

than somebody who is wanting to push an agenda. i think it will be interesting to see what fox news does. i would be interested to know whether they are discussing perhaps having at that 8:00 our a legitimate, more balanced, serious, news journalistic effort rather than an opinion thing. the finances would suggest they should not do that. for the nation into maybe make a statement journalistically, it might worth them pondering getting one of their leading newspeople, maybe martha mccallum or shannon bream to host that 8:00 hour. and make a legitimate news program as opposed to opinion and analysis. host: thank you so much to depa uw university professor jeffrey mccall. thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: you are welcome. host: that is going to do it for us with "washington journal."

we will be back tomorrow, 7:00 a.m. eastern. have a great day. ♪