council, it is always a treat, and we look forward to >> more live coverage this afternoon with a look at the upcoming coronation of king charles the third. it is hosted by the washington post. live coverage at 1 p.m. eastern and at 2:00, a conversation on u.s. taiwan relations and whether it could spark a confrontation with china. that is at 2 p.m. eastern on c-span, you can watch our free mobile video app c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> she is a well-known historian, an expert on andrew jackson and abraham regan -- lincoln. she spent eight years at chair of the history department of

howard university in washington. over the past 20 years, she has served as a member of c-span's advisory team for the network's periodic surveys ranking u.s. presidents. >> on this episode of bookotes plus. it is available on this c-span now video app. host: we are back with bipartisan policy center senior vice president willie -- william hoagland. he is discussing the debt limit of the debate over how to raise it and more on how the u.s. amassed a $31 trillion debt. guest: good to be with you. host: tell us more about the bipartisan policy center and the work you guys are doing to educate people about debt and

deficit. guest: the bipartisan policy center was established 15 years ago. it was established by four former majority leaders in the united states senate. the late senator paul -- bob dole and howard baker on the republican side, senator george mitchell and another senator on the democrat side. as the name would apply -- implied, -- imply, we try to approach major issues and find coming ground. we believe the most sustainable types of policy in the country are those that are done in a bipartisan way. tough issues as it relates to, we have covered a number of it --areas. we have developed a reputation

for that organization that provides an independent assessment as to this issue we are dealing with today called the x date when the federal government will exhaust all its resources available to pay its bills. host: i know it is a not certain date, it shifts. can you talk about this? what do you think the x date is for reaching the debt ceiling now and what are the factors that contribute? guest: we -- the factors that impact this are the factors associated with the economy, the level of revenues coming in, the level of expenditures that go out. these very. the federal government pays monthly, checks go out. bayberry --they vary.

our current estimate is sometime between june and september. maybe this week or early next week, we will update our estimate as well, secretary treasury yelling --yellen. -- will do her update. -- those revenues that came in were a little less than what we had expected and may be it has pushed the date. we will try to refine this. it is a difficult estimate to make because we have to take into consideration all these uncertainties associated and issues -- there are issues we can anticipate, whether it is a disaster or another covid. those are things that will change the estimate dramatically. host: we are talking to bill hoagland about the debt limit

and the natural -- the national debt. i will go ahead to give -- and give listeners and viewers the chance to call in. democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you are a republican, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8001 . independents, dial (202) 748-8002. in addition to what you do with the center, you have a long career on capitol hill. you are no stranger to this debate on the debt ceiling. how do you see it playing out in the current congress over the coming weeks and months? guest: yes, this is deja vu. i have seen this movie before. this one is more scary from my perspective as opposed, the

first time i dealt with the debt limit issue was when i was a staff erector at the senate budget committee in 1982 -- 1985. it was bottom bout by the situation where we work -- almost the same situation where we had a republican in the white house. and a republican controlled senate and democratic controlled house. we were dealing with an issue, we passed a budget resolution in the senate. it passed by one vote in george w. bush -- and the forced -- first bush president broke the kayak -- the type. --tie. the budget was to reduce a deficit which was $200 billion. that particular budget went to

the house and it included in the senate, it was a controversial budget resolution because it had a one-year freeze on social security benefits. it reduced president reagan's defense request. it went to the house and the house, my boss at the time, senator da vinci and senator dole were undercut by president reagan said they would not support that and it came back and it caused a lot of controversy for republicans, who had put their next on the line -- their next --necks on the line to reduce the deficit. there was a movement by senator rudman in the senate, senator phil gramm, saying, we will -- i guess it was october of 1985, we will have to increase the

statutory debt limit to $2 trillion. host: is about 35 years ago. the national debt was $2 trillion. guest: we are at 35 million -- $3520. the senator said we are not going to vote the -- to raise the debt limit which requires 30 votes in the senate unless we have a change in our fiscal policy. that resulted in a thing called gramm-rudman pause. it was a precursor for things that followed where we put caps on spending and if spending exceeded the cap, there would be what that call -- what was called sequesters. we would cut spending below

that. we can argue it was designed to get the balance budget -- with -- it did set up a process and bring mechanisms in place that led to the 1990 agreements, and more portly, mr. clinton and 1990 seven, further negotiations. that required negotiations. i know and i respect the president having worked with him when he was a senator here. i respect the process but i think you have to recognize you will have to negotiate. i am worried about this game of chicken, up to the limit because it will have major economic impacts, both not only domestically but globally, if the federal government, for the

first time in its history has the false on paying its bills. -- as defaults on paying its bills. that will be a big disaster. host: we will talk about that more with you. before we get to the phone lines, can you explain what is the difference between the debt and the deficit. [laughter] guest: good point. we sometimes just assume people is -- understand this. a deficit is the annual difference between your spending and your revenue. today, we have a deficit for the current fiscal year of about $1 trillion. if you go back to the beginning of the republic, and add up all of the deficits offset by wind

we had surpluses -- by wind we had surpluses, which had not been that much, that would be the cumulative. the debt is the accumulation of the lack of deficits from the beginning of the republic to today. host: yes and i am showing on my computer, the u.s. debt clock.org. it is taking away but showing a $31.7 trillion debt, national debt. let's go to the phone lines. we have naomi calling from cockeysville, maryland on the democratic line. what is your question or comment? caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. my question is, i have heard from republicans, the republican side, that joe biden has done little to reduce the deficit