>> coming up, "washington journal" with your calls and comments live on the air. then, citizens against government waste thomas schatz talks about his 2023 congressional pig book. in our spotlight on podcasts segment, the vice president for the center for civic education and chief program officer donna phillips discusses her groups podcast and the state of civics education. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, may 6, 2020

three. artificial intelligence is a technology used in various sectors of the -- some are sounding the alarm of its misuse and potential harm. in this segment, we are asking if you have concerns about artificial intelligence. our phone lines are yes, no and not sure. if you have concerns about ai, call (202) 748-8000. if you do not, (202) 748-8001. if you are not sure, call us at (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. be sure to send your first name, city and state. we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span. and twitter and instagram @cspanwj. welcome to "washington journal." before i get to your calls, i want to show you this article from the new york times with this headline. the of ai leaves google and

warns of danger ahead. perhaps -- for half a century, he nurtured technology at the heart of chat box, but worries it will cause serious harm. here is a portion of that article that says this. dr. hinton's journey from ai groundbreaker to doomsdayer remarks -- marks a remarkable moment for the technog industry, as its most inflection point in decades industry leaders believe the new ai systems could be as important as the introduction of the web browser in the early 1990's and could le to breakthroughs in areas ranging from drug research to education. but, nine get many industry insiders is a fear they ar releasing something dangerous into the wild. generative ai canlrdy be a tool for misinformation. onit could be a rk to

jobs. somewhere down the line, text biggest worriers say it could be a risk to community. "it is hard to see how you can prevent the bad actors from using it for bad things," dr. hinton said. let's take a look at dr. hinton, who was at an event at an m.i.t. technology review function earlier this week. he spoke about the potential dangers of ai. [video clip] >> they are doing sensible reasoning with an iq of 80 or 90 or something. a friend of mine said, it is as if engineers said, we are -- we have improved grizzly bears. they can talk english now. they are useful for all sorts of things. we think we can improve the iq to 210. [laughter] >> i certainly have, i am sure

many people have had that feeling interacting with these latest jackpots, hair -- chat bots. when i have that feeling, uncomfortable, i close my laptop. >> yes, but, these things will have learned by reading anything ever wrote that hyper manipulate people. they will be very good at manipulating. you will not realize what is going on. you will be like a two-year-old being asked, do you want the cauliflower and realize you do not have to have either. you will be that easy to manipulate. even if they do not get up to --, they can get up to full reason. host: we are talking about

artificial intelligence during this hour of washington journal. another perspective from alex sheppard of mini republic, he wrote an opinion piece published in march. there is a lot of uncertainty about artificial intelligence righ now, that is exciting and entertaining. but, w getting a heavy dose of wild speculation about how this technology will revolutionize art, media, technology, politics, our brains and life on earth. so far, the available evidence suggests it may provide search engine competition. it might occasionally be useful for writing a memo. but, we already have technology that makes that stuff easier. these ai applications are a fun new tool, but there is no evidence it may not amount to much more than that. wonder what you think about that, call us on our lines. if you have concerns, that number is (202) 748-00. if you do not, thnumber is

(202) 748-8001. if you are not sure, you can call us on (202) 748-8002. we will start with pamela in new york. caller: good morning morning to you. let me be honest with you. i knew things were always challenging, but when i see artificial intelligence will do something good and people are telling us it might also have some damage, we have to face it. we cannot live in fear anyway. i think i remember the time of cloning, there was a lot of things said about, people are going to create human beings. let the times evolve. if anything -- i do not want to

believe this technology is very bad and we should worry about it. we do not know. we have to explore it. host: let me ask you since you brought up cloning. there is protocols around it. there is standards and ethics around it. but, there is not really around artificial intelligence. do you think there should be? caller: look, when cloning comes, we were really scared. there should be some dues and do nuts. -- do's and do nots. when it comes to artificial intelligence, for me, when there is something much smarter than the human brain, why don't we see it? i don't think it will bring war or something like that, which will destroy our civilization. i think we should be open to it. now, i am excited about it. i am not a young person, i wish

to see the result of artificial intelligence before i leave this earth anyway. host: let's talk to brian next. white plains, maryland. good morning. caller: how are you this morning? host: i am doing great. caller: all right. yes, i have concerns with it. for the most part, we keep giving technology more and more of our positions. you already have a lot of people working from home. dealing with the pandemic and everything, it seems the more you go away from human interaction, you are lessening the work pool and lessening and lessening the amount of people that is actually working. you can already see where the commercial real estate and most of these -- in most of these cities are down because these people are working from home. you've got people working from home so the next thing, people not working at all. what are you left with? host: do you worry artificial intelligence will replace workers? do you worry about your job?

caller: no, my job is physical. i do not have to worry about it. you already have people not coming into the commercial real estate in most major city, downtown buildings. retail space has gone down. people are working from home. what is the next -- working from home, then you can use the computers, you do not have to work at all. why keep using all this stuff? it do not make sense to me. host: got it. let's take a look at some texts we have gotten. ken from virginia says, ai can be beneficial to humans as long as we do not become addicted to them replacing relationships with the convenient calculating ai which might under mean -- oppressing us into technological slavery. this is from kathy in new jersey. no, i do not have concerns about

ai. i have concerns for the people who program it. so sick of fake news. finally, this is stephen from corpus christi, texas. my concern about ai is the misinformation that the right wing thrives on will become even more pertinent to their cause. let's hear from arvin, yorktown, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, arvin, you are on the air. caller: i work in the nuclear business, which is all related to climate change and artificial intelligence should help the solutions because if you combine it with physics of the systems that are made by humans, then you get the right answers. i am not sure what is all the

hooplah of people not trusting artificial intelligence. host: take a look, arvin mentioned nuclear weapons. that text did mention misinformation. this is an article from breaking the since. the headline is, pentagon chief ai officer "scared to death" of potential ai and misinformation. "here is my biggest fear about chat gpt, it has been expressed -- it has been trained to express itself in a fluid manner. you believe it even when it is wrong. that means it is a perfect tool for dis-information." let's hear a little more from the so-called godfather of ai, jeffrey hinton, and how those potential dangers should be addressed. [video clip] >> i mean, you want to speak out about this and you feel more comfortable doing that without

having low back google. -- blowback on google. you are speaking out about it. in some sense, talk is cheap if we do not have actions. what do we do? what should we do about it? >> i wish it was like climate change, where you could say if you have got half a brain, you would stop -- it is clear it is painful, it has to be done. i do not know any solution like that, to stop these things taking over from us. what we really want, i do not think we are going to stop developing them because they are incredibly useful. i do not think there is much chance of stopping development. what we want is some way of making sure that, even if it is smarter than us, they can do things that are beneficial to us. that is called the alignment problem. we need to try to do that in a

world where there is bad actors who want to build soldiers who kill people. it seems very hard to me. i'm sorry, i am sounding the alarm as if we have to worry about this and i wish i had a simple solution i could push, but i do not. i think it is important people get together and think hard about it. it is not clear there is a solution. host: we are asking you about what you think about artificial intelligence. are you worried about it, do you have concerns? you can give us a call. next is jeff in upper marlboro, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not trust it. i have grave concerns, because it is something that is pervasive in our society already with all virtual transactions that take place on a daily basis, whether it is financial or the utility grade, the power systems we all depend on, our

military systems all use it. i do not see how it could possibly end in a good way. there is always going to be a common denominator that, whatever the lowest common denominator is, that is the weakest link in your chain of protection. there is always going to be humans who are greedy or bad actors that will one things for themselves that will end up causing problems for the rest of the world if this technology becomes available to them. host: what do you think is a solution? what would you recommend? caller: at this point, i have no idea how we can turn it around so that you can avoid any of those dangers or potential threats. i have no suggested solution. one caller said he was concerned about people not going back to

work because more and more people were virtually working. that is a very big reality. i think unless we start having more and more human interaction, humans are going to change. it has already been proven the development in kids is different than it was two generations ago because they use less communication that is like we are doing now. they use a lot more virtual communication. when you are developing and that part of your brain that develops uses more of one then the other, it -- you change. it does not make you smarter or less smart. it is a way of communicating that is changing people. i do not see a solution. i think evolution is going to continue. people are going to continue to have human traits that are

occasionally ones that are bad. there will always be bad actors. you just cannot eliminate. i am totally mis-trusting ai. host: got it. richard, florida. good morning. caller: i agree with the previous caller. look at the identity theft, the scams, the twisting of teenagers minds on the internet right now. we sunk into a technological ditch. everything is based on the computer. you are going to have half the people watching the other half of the people to make sure they do not do anything wrong with artificial intelligence. it is not going to be -- improve people's psychology at all.

i think it is going to make people lonelier. host: what about the benefits, richard? it saves a lot of time. it automates a lot of processes. it has got a lot of benefits in the health care fear of -- health care field, the financial field. what do you think of that? caller: no, i think it will get out of hand very quickly. i think we can see it already. the idea people are going to be on the internet even more, i think it is going to cause more problems than it helps with. all right, thank you very much. host: let's go to james in utah, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning, ma'am. after i retired from the air force, i became a redneck. i do not have a personal

computer. i have a cell phone, i leave it in my pickup truck. only thing i am more about right now is being invited -- invaded by the country, by mexico. host: ok. james brought up the military. take a look at this article from the new york times. the headline is, the next fear on ai is hollywood's killer robots become the military tools. u.s. national security officials warning about the potential for the new technology to up and wore, cyber conflict and in the most extreme case, the use of nuclear weapons. by david singer, when president biden announced sharp restrictions in october on selling the most advanced computer chips to china, he sold it in part as a way of getting american industries a chance to restore its competitiveness. but, at the pentagon and the national security council, there was a second agenda. arms control. it said, now the fog of fear

surrounding the shot gpt at bought and other generative ai software has made eliminating of chips to beijing look like a temporary fix. when mr. bite him -- biden dropped by a meeting with his executive struggling with limiting the risk of technology, his first comment was what you are doing has enormous potential and enormous danger. it was a reflection his national security aides say of recent classified briefings of the potential for new technology to upend war, cyber conflict and in most extreme cases, decision-making on employing nuclear weapons. even as mr. biden was issuing his warning, pentagon officials said they thought the idea of a six-month pause in developing the next iterations of chat gpt and similar software was a bad idea. the chinese will not wait, neither will the russians.

"if we stop, guess who is not going to stop? potential adversaries overseas." we have got to keep moving. what do you think of that? otis is next in los angeles. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i am doing good. caller: ok. i think this technology has been put on this earth the same way the internet has changed and social media has taken a strong hold not only on the youth but everybody. we have not given ourselves a fair chance to get full understanding of where we are without technology. now, you are introducing something totally new. also, look at this. ai has been told to us by their

godfather, who is privileged to information who is saying this technology is something that could get out of hand and hurt. that is warning enough for us to know if we do not stick to ourselves, society is in enough trouble. we are going to open up the gates to hell. this whole thing can change the world with a snap of a finger. we as people should be very concerned about this technology and what it could do to us. host: what specifically are you concerned about? what do you think it could do? caller: from my perspective, i have been doing a lot of reading and paying close attention to it. its ability to out to pick us as humans. we are not doing a good job as it is as humans. our society is rotting at the core. i think if you bring this technology and without people having a full understanding of its capacities, it is going to add to a situation that starts

to worsen. i think that society needs to take more time and get a better handle on this before it unleashes. 60 minutes had a show several weeks back on google, the guy from google, who openly admitted they do not have a full understanding of what the capacity of what this thing is and he still said he is going to unleash it on society. that is madness to me. that is madness. look at our kids. the caller talked about the way the kids are getting down. look at what is happening to them. they have no recollection. they are soft. they are not using their brains. everything is made too easy for them. we are going backwards instead of forward. some of the things that worked for us yesterday, we need to implement in today society and we are turning away from because we let technology be our father. i think it is wrong and we need to stop trying to be god and let

god be god. host: let's go to albany, new york. wayne, what do you think? caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: my thoughts about artificial intelligence, i am not sure if i fall into the concerns, no concerns or not sure category. i am wondering, we need this artificial intelligence. this is going to improve people's lives. our cities are already run by limited artificial intelligence. when people think of artificial intelligence, they think of these supercomputer, quantum computers and all of this stuff. everything is already run by supercomputers, artificial intelligence. the artwork that artificial intelligence creates is amazing. the literature, even the news articles it creates is amazing.

people are always afraid of new technology. i am sure in the distant past, there was someone who was afraid of fire and telling everybody, oh, my god, do not use the fire. it is going to burn you, it is going to like the forest on fire, we are all going to die. host: i have a question for you. you mentioned the artwork and music and all that artificial intelligence creates. if artificial intelligence creates a piece of art or music or poetry or something like that, should you be able to copyright it? if i tell chat gpt, write me a poem, should i be able to copyright it? i did not write it. caller: i do not think you should be able to. i think it should be instantly public domain. host: ok. let's talk to cindy, short

hills, new jersey. hi, cindy. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i am a college professor. my thought is not so much fear of ai, but we should fear our lack of state of readiness as human beings. by empowering ai through fear, we are not preparing ourselves. i think college university curriculum has to change. i used to say to my students, the subject matter in my class does not matter because you have internet you can access that day. what matters is what you do with it. we are in data technology. now, we are given additional data to deal with and additional information. we need to create a state of readiness teaching our students and -- in the university setting and k-12 how to think about things, rather than fear them. we have a tremendous brain

capacity that we have not used. i think this fear comes from a concern we are going to have to do "homework." life is about homework. we have new technology. we should at this point learn we have to do more homework. yes, life will change. it changes with everything. but, i think our state of readiness is what is the big fear for me, that we are not ready and we have been made lazy because everything we read, everything we hear, we think is information. it is not. it is data and we should convert it to information. human beings have tremendous power if they would use their brain and care to know and analyze. host: i have got a question for you since you are a college professor. have you dealt with the issue of generative ai writing papers and how do you deal with that, that your student is not the one actually writing the paper? caller: i teach international

business, but that would be more the -- department. what i have heard in the coverage of ai is whole summation, which means when papers are written, if you look at the reference and ask ai to give you the reference, they will create fake books and fake references so there is a responsibility of knowing what is credible reference. i would imagine professors of english that are reading papers in my area, it is about solving problems. how do you construct a problem, and what is it that you look at in terms of trying to solve the problem solving? your question is appropriate. i think we should look as a whole of a nation at the aspect of ai, which is creating fake hind fake. -- behind fake. host: let's take a look at twitter. stephen since, my thing about

ai, all of the people that will believe it and take it as the gospel truth even though they should know better. look at january 6, one third of the country cannot leave their eyes about an insurrection. a text from north carolina, in 1966, the encyclopedia said a computer would need to be larger than the empire state building to get close to approaching what a human brain could do. now, a smartphone has more intelligence than the computers on apollo 13. no one knows what computers will be able to do in the future. truth say or i twitter says, absolutely, i have concerns just as with any tool of society. some will use it to greatly benefit the world. others will use it with the same force and will to the detriment of society. nancy is in holland, michigan. good morning. caller: sorry, i would like to say those of us who are christians has the ability to

ask god what he thinks should be done. we should be doing that, anyway. i am happy for what the lady said before me. thank you. host: jim in wisconsin. caller: yes. yeah, my concerns are the ai is going to be so harmful. it is all with chips and stuff like that. they are getting over into synthetic biology and they are wanting to go into the genes. they are wanting to learn how to turn genes around in certain ways, which make all kind of different variety of hybrids. all the consequences are not determined on that. so, if you like a double whammy

of biological and informational combined without knowing what the consequences are. host: all right. michael is next in ashburn, virginia. good morning. caller: hey, good morning. i guess i have concerns and non-concerns. any kind of technology that you develop, you are either going to use it for good or not going to use it for good. you can use it to bomb -- to make a bomb that will incinerate states or an entire country, or you can use it for power -- to power the whole eastern seaboard. i think it is really just as they have nuclear packs around the world, i believe they are going to have to have ai packs with countries.

unfortunately, it is probably going to be after something that happens with it, as usual. you know, i think it comes down to my own personal experience with school. i was in math, i took a statistics class in college. i think professors, not just students, but also professors, have gotten lazy because when they develop these more advanced calculators, my grandfather was a math professor. he was watching me do my mouth with my calculator. i was trying to solve a problem. he came over and said, what are you doing, you are cheating? i told him, this is how my professor showed me how to do this. i remember the day he showed me how to solve the problem. yes, it took me a very long time to figure out the statistics

problem, but i knew i had the understanding of where the equation came from and how to solve it using my own brain. i think that is the problem. they, as time passes, more and more professors will lie on this technology -- will rely on this technology to show students how to solve math and science problems and many other things. but, we have to be careful not to make ourselves obsolete in this world. host: got it. let's look at this articlin the washington post with this headline, u.s. officials say ai will be a big cyber threat. how it will materialize is less clear. here is a portion of a recent house homeland security meeting. an easterly, the director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure

security. [video clip] >> people trying to say, hey, we need to slow down ai. frankly, we cannot slow down ai because our adversaries are not going to slow down with ai and they understand the potential of artificial intelligence and all sorts of things. but, in military hardware, ai, if they get that advantage on us, it is huge. we cannot, we have to keep going. that being said, ai has the potential to do incredible good. unbelievable good. the -- to mankind, humankind, the human race can explode with new findings, new knowledge, new abilities through the use of this technology. then, ai can be incredibly destructive. so, the only defense we are

going to have against ai is ai. so, are we developing that capability? you have ai can do good, but you also know ai can do bad. you have to have defensive ai to fight the bad ai. are we working on that, too? >> i am not an ai technical expert. i know there is a lot being done on the defensive side and on the offensive side. i agree with you, congressman, that there are are some amazing things that can be done with this capability. but, i have probably much like you seen a darkside. when i was in the army, when i was deployed and the head of -- at the white house. what i worry about our adversaries, whether a nation state like china or a terrorist or a criminal using these to create malware, cyber weapons, to create bio weapons to do

genetic engineering to do things that, frankly, we might not do as a value space democracy. i think we need to have those difficult and important conversations, because i will even the power of good for technology. but, ai will be the most powerful weapons of this century. and the most powerful weapons of the last century, nuclear weapons, were built and maintained by governments who were distance advised to use them. -- this incentivized -- dis -incentivized to use them. i applaud efforts to get ahead of it by congress as well as many across the federal government. i think it is important. host: that was the head of system. we are asking you for the next wendy five minutes if you have concerns about artificial intelligence -- 25 minutes if

you have concerns about artificial intelligence. mike from florida. are you there? ray is in vermont. caller: yes. i have concerns about it because it is artificial, number one. and, artificial intelligence. it is basically, the way i see it, the technology is spread for money. the benefits of it day sale to everywhere all over the world. instead of mastering the technology, the technology winds up mastering the people because the people need the technology. the technology does not meet the

people. it is not god made, it is artificial. god made everything of its kind and gave us a brain to use to do everything. we are using less of our brain and depending more on computer made things. this artificial intelligence, which is basically artificial -- instead of people mastering it because they do not master it, they find out little bits about it and go ahead and implement it and it turns around and when the problems happen, they do not know how to resolve them. it is like the banking going on right now and every other problem we have. the wickedness of man, how people turn on each other through shadow banning and all of these things. host: let's hear from sam in new

jersey. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? a couple of points i would like to make, if possible. in 2007, ibm and m.i.t. worked on a project that everyone is probably familiar with. it is a computer, that is artificial intelligence. they used artificial intelligence since 2007. i think we are ok now, even though it has been around for quite some time. many companies are throwing billions of dollars on this technology. artificial intelligence is here to stay, so to speak. we have to get on board. why? it is going to be a deterrent. just like nuclear weapons, we not like nuclear weapons, but we need them because we have to deter other countries from using their nuclear weapons against us. so, it is something we have to create. it has to evolve. human beings i.q.'s have gone

towards the mean as they become older. this is the norm. if you can create something that has an iq of over 200 and remains there, who would not want, even if it is a computer, something they can discuss certain ideas with that has an iq over 200? i know it is kind of scary that computers could someday dictate certain actions and are doing that now. but, this is the direction we are heading. if we do not move in that direction, we will be left behind and that will be costly for us. as citizens and as a country. and as a whole. so, those are my points. i am sorry, i hope i did not take too much of your time. host: do not worry about it. robert is in richmond, maine. good morning. caller: good morning.

i think we can could see the country split down the middle ideologically right now. i predict that is how ai will be. we are going to have a conservative and liberal ban ai's. i think that might be for the good, because why not let the two ai's or how many ai's debate ideas? they should be able to debate them on the spot and prove they are right, or wrong immediately if they are so smart. that is what i see. i do not see it as a detriment. i think it will either kill us all or it is going to make us better. nowhere in between, though. host: robert, have you had a chance to play around with chat gpt? have you tried it? caller: i did. i was kind of amused at first. i said, oh, that is clever. in reality, what i have seen of it, it is mimicking what it

expects you to hear. it is picking in already existing knowledge and regurgitating it for you. i tried it. i do not see any use for it at a practical level at this point. if you want to write a memo, why not just write the memo? what is your brain going to do if you do not use it for anything? host: let's talk to bonnie in lancaster, pennsylvania. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. as a 73-year-old, blind, recently educated woman, none of us know what is going to happen in the next two years, five years, 10 years. i think we are our own enemies. we are destroying ourselves within. i used to teach. believe me, children today, they

do not even know who the mayor of their city is. they do not even know who the president of the united states is. there was a woman professor called earlier, she is absolutely correct. people are not using their brains. if we let ai take over the world, we do not have to think. if we go back in history, in china, the country was devastated with drugs. we are doing the same thing. we are destroying ourselves within. whatever possesses the ai and controls it, which is the elite, they are the ones that are going to run the world, not our human brains. host: i have a question about that. isn't that what people say about a lot of new technologies that come around? i remember when gps was first used for navigation and people said, oh, people are not going

to pay attention to where they are going. they are not going to know how to get anywhere, they are going to rely on this computer to tell them where to go. caller: right. what has happened is a hard copy of that. that is the obsolete. host: is that a bad thing? caller: yes, it is because you are not thinking. you are letting the mechanics, you are letting the computers think. if information is not put into a computer today properly, what happens? same thing. when your human mind is trained to think, it is much better than anything that is computerized, ai. how many times do we sit at a computer and say, the computer makes mistakes because it is who puts the information in properly. that is the problem. host: ai is only as good as the

data used to train it. theodore in miami, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. my concerns about ai, i do not have it because a lot of people do not understand exactly how ai will affect us. it is going to affect us in a way that do not want to have. some of us want to have, a lot of us are going to not. a majority of the time, ai is going to be in effect it is not going to help us. it really is not. we really need to find ai another way to go. thank you. host: the hill.com has results of a poll. it says, darn it. well, i will show you that later. art is in california. go ahead. caller: i do not believe the

argument our adversaries are going to use it. america is the warmonger of all of this stuff. russia and china are just stealing our technology. we need to get back to not as bad as the amish, but basically live sensibly and with the land and we need to start growing our own food with small farmers and feeding people and taking care of our citizens. if anything, we need the ai to replace congress. i do not know what half the people in our country do not even vote and do not pay attention. host: art, you said you do not believe other countries are developing ai? caller: not to the extent that they are going to exceed us. russia and china steal our technology. host: all right, let's go to roger in kathleen, virginia --

kathleen, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i think ai is here to stay. it will be more advanced in the coming years, but at the same time, it is here to stay. people, some people will take advantage of it. some people will not. some people will get used to it and use it properly. some people will not. that is like any tool that man created. the computer is the same way. everybody use them, but some people use them correctly and some people do not. so, it is here. i can only think that the people that are controlling them and are billing them will build them correctly. the input of information will be input correctly. our corporations and our

government will take a closer look at them before they let them come online. host: all right, roger. take a look at this article from the hill.com about a pol headline, half of americans say congress should take swift action to regulate ai. about half of americans said congress should be taking action to regulate artificial intelligence technology according to a poll released thursday. 54% of old registered voters said congress should take swift actions to regulate the technology in a way that promotes privacy, fairness and safety to ensure "maximum benefit to society with minimal risks." we are getting your thoughts on that this morning on artificial intelligence london, ohio. mick is next. good morning. caller: hello.

yes. i am 90 years old. we have always had ai, but we have called it religion. the only difference between this religion and the others before it is with ai, the leadership wants to remain anonymous. in other words, not have responsibility for what it sees. so. i think it is very dangerous. i do not think it is as as people think it is and it is very dangerous as religions have been in the past, and still are at times. thank you. host: college station, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is that the technology is already out of the bottle. you are not going to be able to

stop it. the best attempt would be to try to manage it as effectively as possible. i look at it as a other tool that man has created, be it guns, nuclear weapons, anything that people are going to exploit for their own purposes. we are on the brink of changing the paradigm of life and personhood. we have got to recognize what the long-term potential of this is and prepare for mass dislocation for people from jobs. i worked in marketing advertising, you can go on chat ppt -- gpt and it develops ads for you, copywriters are going to lose jobs. we have to come up with solutions for the millions of people who are going to be

displaced by this new technology. what are we going to do with them and for them in order, the way the world operates, commerce, business, social relationships, is going to change? my fear is we are not thinking about the long-term implications and we are going to get in a situation where we are not prepared for what comes about. if there are millions of people without jobs, we are not prepared to care for them. i think we have got to change how we think about humanity and society collectively and get ready. host: about the impact to jobs, the national economic council director was asked about ai's impact to that. take a look. [video clip] >> let's end on artificial intelligence, which is what we are fascinated by. chat gpt's explosion, goldman

sachs came out and talked about -- jobs from ai. how do you think about that when you think about the labor market? do you think it will cost that many jobs? >> i think we are beginning to understand the far-reaching implications of this profound, potentially transformative technology. it could bring opportunities. it will certainly bring risks. i think the president has met with members of the technology community, the private sector, really starting to go down the path of having a conversation where together, we decide what the path forward might look like to on the one hand, support responsible innovation but on the other hand, make sure that is balanced by strong safeguards. >> that is very interesting. we will end there. one of the biggest companies in the country told me last week, essentially, just because we could does not mean we should.

just because we can do this with ai, does not mean we should right away. because of what it means for jobs, etc. do you agree with that? >> i do think there are some important risks here. yes, absolutely, we need to make sure there are important safeguards that we all agree and put those in place so that some of those risks that are quite sobering are addressed at the outset. host: she mentioned the administration official meeting with tech leaders. that did happen. this is the readout of that white house meeting with ceos on advancing responsible artificial intelligence innovation. it says the president, vice president were clear in order to realize the benefits that might come from advances in ai, it is imperative to medicate both the current and potential risks ai poses to individuals, society and national security. these include risks to safety,

security, human and civil rights, privacy, jobs and democratic values. you can read the whole readout at whitehouse.gov. kenny is next, byron, georgia. good morning. caller: right. the scary thing is, if you ask a computer, how can we extend human life? the computer will come back and say, you guys need to quit eating cheeseburgers and potato chips and quit smoking and breaking beer and go to bed on time and quit sleeping in on the weekend and wake up and do exercises. [laughter] host: and watch "washington journal." caller: right? host: what is your point, kenny? caller: i am saying the computer will make us do things we do not want to do and take away the fun stuff of life. host: [laughter] all right. cornelia is in idaho, good morning. caller: hi. good morning. i am not prepared to go on the

air, to be honest with you. i know nothing about ai. at all. it does have the potential for evil like any other modern tool that mankind develops. unfortunately, in our world, we have our enemies and our enemies are becoming more and more powerful because of the bad ways they are using, stealing our secrets and turning our secrets against us. it is scary, because there are bad actors out there. they will use it for evil. what can we do? let's hope the whole world is converted back to god and

morality and character, good character. that is our only defense, is to go and help people understand that there is a god and there is good and evil. let's hope we can use it for good. that is my thought. i had to say it, because the technology of this, i do not understand to be honest with you. host: michael in connecticut. what do you think? caller: let me say this, artificial intelligence has always been with us. every advancement is artificial intelligence. in my world, it was called automation. we have all experienced it. it is with us as we speak. it has always been there. it has advanced as, it has made us the great people we are. i will give you a personal example. i used to be in the broadcasting industry. there was a time in america for the americans listening, you all

had local radio stations somewhere. that radio station where people called disc jockeys and newspeople, artificial intelligence, automation came along and replaced disc jockeys, replaced music, replaced news rooms. radio stations are gone. that is how it works. it keeps advancing, it is never going to stop. when you think artificial, the woman mentioned, we have got to get back to god. nothing more artificial than that. it controls people. you have got to learn to live with it, we have got to incorporate it in our lives and live out your life with whatever is coming on. you are not going to stop it. take care. host: men condo, minnesota. good morning. caller: mankato. host: mankato. got it. caller: thank you very much for my call. i have concerns both ways. i know there is going to be some

wonderful advancements, medicine, for example. maybe some environmental concerns, energy concerns. they will all be made wonderfully advanced and more efficient. where it comes in interesting with negative concerns, this may be the financial market. they have been doing financial intelligence -- artificial intelligence for a while. we have seen a lot of things where they do hyper trading and really take advantage of certain situations. we will see that happening with the stock market very much heavily under influence of ai, which can be poisoned quite easily with overtraining or adverse effects. anyway, that is my thoughts. thank you very much. host: all right, kevin. that is the time we've got for this segment. thanks to everybody that called in. if you did not get a chance to weigh in, you can do that during

open forum later in the program. next, tom schatz of citizens against government waste discusses his groups 2023 congressional pig book, the annual completion of pork aral projects in the federal budget. later in our weekly spotlight on podcast segments, donna phillips for the center for civic education discusses her groups podcast, 60 seconds civics and the state of civics education in america. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. on lectures and history, university of california davis art history professor talk about

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>> washington journal continues. >> welcome back. our guest is thomas, a president of citizens against government waste. welcome. >> glad to be on. >> before we get into the main subject or the pork. that is a bad joke, tell us about your organization and how you are funded. >> we were founded in 1984, following the lease of president reagan. we are proud to be a legacy of this administration and these ideas. he told us to work like tireless led hounds to uncover waste and the government. they came up with 2400 78 recommendations. 24.4 billion dollars over three years, once they were fully implemented. since 1984, they've managed to

save $2.1 trillion, which is not as much as it used to be, but nonetheless, there's a lot of money over a. of time. >> how do you define work. for one person, it's a big waste. for another, it is an important project. >> in 1991, we worked with the pork busters coalition that helped us put together a seven point criteria that we still use today to determine whether a specific spending project is what we call porkbarrel spending or an earmark as it is commonly known. it is an objective look at how money is spent. a lot of projects might find that uncertain like a bridge to nowhere. a $16 range, and there are a lot of projects which are wasteful,

but that is because of the way they are added to the budget. . >> for our viewers, if you would like to call in and ask questions, you can do that on our lines by party affiliation. the number is on your screen. in fiscal year 2023, take a look at the screen. 7003 hundred 96 congressional earmarks were identified. they cost $26.1 billion. since 19 91, your organization identified over 124,000 earmarks costing $475 billion. what are the trends. what is new in 2023? where is this going? >> congress agreed to an earmark moratorium, so for a.

of time, they said they didn't have any, but the criteria is not the same. so we kept finding them. in the last two years, they brought them back. there has been literally an explosion of earmark since then. the $26.1 billion in the fiscal year 2023 is only 2.9 billion or 10% less than the record of 29 billion in fiscal year 2006, and just below that is 2005. we are rapidly going towards the price mark. under what they call new criteria which is really everything the government touches. everyone is out there doing that. 99% of, kratz and 49% of

republicans. but i think that number is probably going to be larger in the coming fiscal year. >> let's look at some of the specific projects. if you looat the screen at the earmarks, the top one, the most pensive one is 1.5 billion or the f 35 joint strike fighter. this is a military airplane. why is that your art? >> these are fighters that depend on the requests, and if it was not requested, it will greatly -- exceed the appropriation projects with the pentagon that they didn't want. the f-35 is already are over budget $1.7 trillion with a lifetime maintenance that is very expensive. when they add new ones, it is hard to finish the old ones. it could be used for other

projects. >> 30 million for the grant? what is that about #>> that's a record amount. there are local theaters, museums, arts prrams. it is an area where there hasn't been corruption related to t earmark red performer earmarks to former staff instead of nonprofits. one of the reasons we want a primary in the democratic part of west virginia. this is again something that should be funded local. also for the institute of library services and other agencies that are funded in the appropriations bill that provide treasures. it is projects that went through the grantmaking process. it is white fixate criteria and they said no. we like our theater better and we want to add our project.

>> we are going to take calls, but i want to show you what mike simpson said. he is a republicanrom idaho and then i will ask you to respond to it he said the idea nice sound bite but it treats a false narrative that doesn't serve the american people. this directive spending is wasteful and hurt the federal government. make no mistake. the government has a spend problem. what the congressionally directed spending is not more spending. it is simply a way for members to prioritize a project in tir own district within existing budget limits. even within budget set by congress, these are limited to no more than 1% of the discretionary budget. what do you think #wax that is spoken like a longtime member of the appropriations committee. he has a valid defense but 99.9% of funding is not marked. our argument is facetiously but

accurate that they should be directing every project and earmark everything. >> why have all of these formulas they all agree upon to divide on, based on the population need. one quick example is in 2007 with the department of transportation who insured a report, saying that 90% for some of these agencies was earmark. it means that none of the priorities have come up from the local metropolitan area where there is a stoplight or were they fixed a road had that was all usurped, sometime by a member of congress when they said no. it should be over there. a former speaker of the house said that we know better where to put a stop than anyone else. that is a little too involved in

local planning, and i think that really gives members of congress more power than that, but it lead to corruption and jail time for members of congress in the early 2000, so that is something else. >> does your organization advocate for doing away completely with earmarks? >> yes. florida, montana, and the legislation, there have been votes within the conference in the house or elsewhere. it never quite got there, but we will see what happens with this new earmark and how it turns out. >> let's talk to some viewers. mike is in wilmington delaware. hello. >> howdy. i am glad people like you exist to keep an eye on the government. the first question to ask is -- keep in mind this happened in the past as far as what the organization is, and how it's funded.

you answer the spark didn't answer the second part, but there's nothing nefarious. i'm just always interested where the money is coming from. >> it comes from individual donors around the country. anyone can provide civil -- support for our association companies. that is always the basis for our support. we do send mailings out to people online. we asked people to support us. everyone is there, and taxpayers. if anyone feels they are not gained their money's worth, they are welcome to ort us. ask james is next. democrat. >> good morning. i question is, you hit a lot of topics, and as myself, i depend on disadvantage transportation. in the state of florida, the budget has been cut 31% since last five years.

even still, the federal level budget has increased, but the state level has backed down on that. it is more difficult for transportation. are you looking at something that would help in that nature. >> we had a state government association, and we are only 10 people so we can look at everything with expenditures across the country, but we are concerned when money is not being spent efficiently. certainly, in many cases, plus money can be spent but more services can be provided, so it is a matter of the state or local communities in what they have. if they are not familiar with that, the federal government at least are spending trillions more than before the pandemic, and a lot of that is not going where it should be going. >> how much transparency is

therefore a lawmaker to request federal funds going to a state or local community? >> that is one of the improvements that the house republican majority is made. there is more transparency and it is easier to find a request for earmarks, and we will take a little right. we will take little credit that. we want to make sure they're going to do that. people can find out where they are going and exactly how it is being spent. it is something. it is not everything. >> brady is in gaithersburg. independent. hello. >> morning. how are you? >> i'm well. >> good. here's a question. i want to reference a favorite quote of mine which is if you want to understand any problem in america, you need to focus on who suffers from it. it goes back to this idea of a fighter jet.

they didn't even want a 1% tax rate versus the 99%. things like citizens united. there is a financial reason for practically everything and i want to get your thoughts on that red >> the people in washington who asked for money are lobbyists. i think everyone is a lobbyists, or they can be. you can contact legislators and asked them to do something at my father was president of local school board. he had people lobbying him for lots of things, but that is the way the system works. if enough people want something dark, they can work together and get it done. but in washington, members of congress can get a donation to their campaign and provide an earmark or whoever is giving them money for the campaign. that's not the best way to do things, but it is not something that is not permitted. >> do you track impact of these

earmarks, since they've come back? have you looked at what impact they have had? that is another improvement. we have an appropriations committee did they have improved the way money has been spent, and they get it reviewed by an account ability office, they track where it is being spent, but again, the project will be outside of the normal process. as you mentioned. it is not based on merit. it is based on how it is spent. let's see how this works. whether then it is better than before. but again, as was alluded to, we are members. we get to do this. it is a very good opportunity that says we have an article empower. this is not how it was intended to be used it >> as a reminder, we will take your questions and comments for our guest for the

next half-hour on the segment. you can call the phone line. the numbers are on your screen. you can interact with us by text and social media. i want to ask you about the top recipients of earmarks. we will put that on the screen. our senators, this is for fiscal year 2023. senator shelby's on top, and senator inhofe, both osince retired. they are followed by senator schatz, michalski and her ono of waii. what do you make of that? what is your reaction? >> senator schatz is not related. that h aays been the case. that is five memrsf congress. that is less than 1% of the tire body. adding the total, it is 10% of

the amount of earmarks, and we show 666 million. it is 25% greater then emhoff, so they did well, going out the door. it shows how the money is inequitably obtained by members of congress. we call it the most corrupt costly and practice in the history of congress. the inequity is shown there. five members, less than 5% getting 10% of the money. looking at the entire house and senate appropriations members, their 89 of them. that is 17% in congress. they have between 9% of the money and 41% of the earmarks. again, disproportionate. one of the reasons why congressman simpson would say, he and other fellow house appropriations committee members

get disproportional, is there is a limit of 1%, but that is not true. that is why senators in the last year out of the top 50, there were only two members in the house in the top 50. they both happen to be republicans, but aside from that, it is almost always senators getting more than democrats. more than representatives. democrats more than republicans. >> we have a question from washington dc. what do you think about dod spending which by law doesn't have a clean audit wired for all other entities? what are the selected workers always democrat? certainly, plenty of republicans are abusing budget and tax dollars. >> we always look for whoever is out there doing what they are not supposed to do. we have had republicans in the

past. in regards to the pentagon, with the commission report under president reagan, 25% was a spending customer or the pentagon. looking at the pentagon, they've always had the highest percentage of your marks, so i encourage you to take a quick look at where the money is. and they tend to use that with our concern. it is a higher priority for national security. >> ri. michael, democrat. good morning. yes. what i want to know is how does porkbarrel spending measure up to the misappropriation and misuse of funds here in the state of mississippi. we have had it to the tune of a hundred 50 million dollars that were misappropriated and misused

from the governor down to the department of welfare and little to nothing has been done about that. i just want to know how the spending measures up to the misappropriation and misuse of funds. >> it is a small percentage as the houses had. it is limited to 1% of appropriations. it is really not about 1% of what we call discretionary spending. it is symbolic. there is a larger problem. it encourages members of congress to vote or a bill they might not otherwise but for because they are getting some earmarks in the bill in exchange for billions or hundreds of billions of dollars in the appropriations bill. there are lots of others examples of that spending. that is citizens against government waste.

there are improper payments going out to the government from people that should not be getting it. overpayment to someone who is getting the money or going back to the covid-19 relief unemployment insurance issues. other spendings that are excessive and subjective fraud. it is a big problem across the government. just take the number of the federal government puzzles. $6.8 trillion. you can find 10% of wasteful spending, and that is six of $80 million and that is money to talk about plenty examples of wasteful spending. >> we've got a question for you from jim in california. does he think that government tax breaks are a form of wasteful spending. this is money that could be used to pay down the national debt rate >> tax subsidies have a lot of different areas that are covering research and

development tax credits that lead to a lot of breakthroughs in terms of treatments and cures and other things that help. we don't deal with them as much as the spending side, and that is an argument for how congress treats tax deductions and whether it is a critical payment. it is not a successful argument stated is the waste come up with our costly tax credits that should be found. >> let's go to republican periods good morning. >> i think our government is just so screwed up now. i don't believe there is not one entity in our government that is not screwed up. you look at aoc. she is coming to congress six years ago. now, she is a bartender, and now she is a millionaire. we have a lot of problems in our government of people who aren't waking up. they will lose it because they are just making money off of us. i don't understand why they cannot call back 92 billion of

the teachers union and build inner-city skills -- schools and replace the schools don't have air conditioning for these inner-city students. they have a fourth grade reading level and we are out here worrying about all these people who are just stealing money from us. we are allowing it to happen. >> all right. >> let's just talk about education. i've always felt that we are an organization in favor of moving that local community. making sure he goes into the classroom, and that is effectively that we can improve the level of education even before covid. there were issues and how people were being educated. there was a chart in the department of president obama. it showed spending going up. in test scores were flat.

we pointed that out, they took down the chart. as was being said earlier, looking at the effectiveness or earmark of any other project across the federal government, the objective is to provide results of whatever the result of the dashed intent of the program is supposed to be. that is not measured very well read and programs don't work, you the answer on capitol hill is to create another program. when that doesn't work it is sufficient. it is not a silly corruption but is a waste of accountability. it is a list of duplicate if in overlapping programs. there are number of samples where that crosses over into the same area of duplicate if an overlapping grams. like broadband which i'm happy to talk about but we have to take another question. >> here is a text from sue in new jersey. whatever became of the simpson report?

were there any recommendations taken seriously? exit was a good report. they balanced a budget over a short parade of time. it was bipartisan. but unfortunately, members of congress took a look at it and said we don't have to do this, and they never did. >> and is next in wisconsin. democrat. >> hello. i was just wondering, sometimes with way they budget things is they encourage programs and services to spend the money they get. if they don't spend it all, they will get next to last -- next year, so encourages people to get more money when you really should be trying to help people get on their heat so they won't be needing a program, eventually. would that be a form of waste? >> it is. the whole budget process is

baseline budgeting, meaning it is based on what should be spent in the upcoming year. based on what is spent in the current year. there is an automatic increase into the budget. citizens against government waste has long supported eliminating a slime budgeting and it is always looked at with a fresh eye. also, they look at what is this -- supposed to be achieved by the program. i often asked members of congress when i'm testifying, what is the most effective program to educate americans? we don't know. but they will say, let's just figure it out. we will spend more money. as if that solves the problem. it's not just how the budget is written and set up. it is also what congress does in order to achieve anything. they don't base what they do on

the results. they base it on other things. >> art is next. painesville ohio. democrat. >> did you ever take a look at medicare advantage? it is such a waste of money that they are advertising to put seniors and this money going to advertising. to sign up seniors. different television networks, newspapers. it's like republican started a whole new industry, and it is a news division the supposed to be a watchdog, but they make the most money aside from the insurance company. why can't medicare compete for seniors in the same manner that insurance companies are. maybe you did a whole week on medicare about a month or two ago, but they never gave a follow-up on the money with the advantage plan. if this is the 20th anniversary,

it should be taken a look at. >> medicare is very popular, number one. it provides services that medicare itself does not. i think if you asked someone if they are getting something they like, if it is a choice, forced to go on medicare advantage, you pay more to get services. that is what it's about. it's run by the private sector, so it is a competitive anger because they are competing for people to join whichever company is providing that service, so it has been very beneficial to medicare beneficiaries. no pun intended. it is very popular. >> dig is in spartanburg. independent. good morning. >> good morning. i have looked up just a little bit ago, how many federal

agencies -- there are 438 federal agencies. the president has spent two weekends at the white house. he goes home every weekend. it cost $209,000 an hour to fly air force one $27,000 jp four. a container ship earned 65,000 gallons of diesel fuel a day. if our products were produced here in america, just think of the savings, but 478 agencies when roosevelt one world war ii with 12 federal agencies. is there any way we can eliminate these?

>> our objective is to put ourselves out of business, but i don't see them doing that with that many agencies. that is one of the reasons why, in discussing duplication and overlap, it is important to identify where the money is being spent, and who is spending it. let's go back to broadband. government accountability found that there are 133 broadband programs funding our deployment programs across 15 federal agencies, and we follow that closely, and we had no idea it was that many. so, there there is up to $800 billion available that could be used for broadband, only $80 billion is necessary to connect ali unserved and underserved households in the country -- connect all the unserved and underserved households in the country.

some guidance provides things for them to do that have nothing to do with connecting people. there is a lot of money there and agencies involved citizens against government waste will be watching. there is $9 million provided for 10 members of congress for broadband programs which we think is one of the most outrageous earmarks in this congressional session, so many opportunities for local communities provided this money to go up and say, give it money to us and those who already have money from the federal and state government. this is a small piece of what they are getting and it is simply unnecessary. host: we have a text from roland

in detroit that says are there any members of congress fighting to stop or rollback porkbarrel spending? guest: senator scott, senator daines, congressman ralph norman of south carolina introduced the earmark elimination as well. there are members who are out there fighting, congressman tom mcclintock of california. he was live at our virtual press conference, a very strong advocate against earmarks. host: what are the chances? , support did that have? -- how much support did that have? guest: try to get them to extend the moratorium on earmarks. he got fewer than i thought, 50 something to 150 something. it was not that close.

a lot of the newer members here that we need to figure out how to spend this money ourselves because we don't want the biden administration but 99% of the money spent goes through the agencies to be sent out base, congress does. it is 1% causing the problems and it goes to the appropriations committee, and it says the new members who want an earmark will not work out so well. host: brian is in massachusetts, republican. caller: thank you for letting me speak. i have two questions. one is that could he speak to the origins of the term porkbarrel? what is the history of that term and if he could just tell the viewers about that. and the other thing is, it seems

like agricultural subsidies for wheat, corn, dairy, sugar. is that considered porkbarrel spending or not? guest: porkbarrel spending or earmarks at least according to citizens against government waste, it is the definition of earmarks in the house and senate which is close but not exactly what we have citizens against government. the term porkbarrel was historically based on people rushing to a barrel of pork out in the field to get the pork for the day and it turned into lobbyists rushing to members of congress trying to get their piece of the pork. it is referred to as earmarks

much more these days but pork belly -- porkbarrel is still used historically. it is used all over. on the agricultural subsidies, citizens against government has been involved in both kinds of subsidies, sugar, dairy, peanuts . we are looking hard at the sugar subsidies for this version of the farm bill which is supposed to be reauthorized in a coalition trying to eliminate that subsidy. that does cost money as we pay twice as much as the rest of the world for sugar and it is rare that you find cane sugar in u.s. products. overseas they do because it is cheaper. host: another question from text from texas, our -- our contact

-- are campaign contributions from lobbyists in the records? guest: they are supposed to be but not all of them but there are super pac's and different ways to provide support but it is something people can look up at the federal election commission to determine who is giving money. host: let's talk to curtis in wiggins, mississippi, republican. caller: i have a question, why do we keep letting the politicians like the one we have in the president's office, who is seen out and compromised make deals with foreign countries to give the foreign countries money and it bounces back into the

pockets of the politicians? i know we have a news media that is not reporting that that is what happened. in congress, a deputy marshal behind him saying if answer, or we are going to ask the question split if you answer it you are going to jail? guest: based on the separation of powers, congress does not have that power, the court would have to have someone arrested and put on trial but i understand people are upset about how much money is being spent. host: donald is a democrat in richmond, california. good morning. caller: i thought i heard your

guest say all he has is 10 people on his staff. if he has only 10 people, i think you need to import yourself. guest: we like to be efficient. it is an amazing group. we rely on reports that come from the federal government. we keep busy. i should mention, and i'm very proud of the people who work for citizens against government waste, sean kennedy, the research erector wrote the book with my help and others, and our communications director helped put together the press conference. we continue to get the word out. the policy of government affairs also runs our innovations. we have people who have worked with us for a long time and work hard to make sure your money is not being wasted. host: stephen in pennsylvania,

republican. caller: how much spending are we doing giving to other countries? we get a lot of money to other countries. i am wondering how much money we do give to other countries. guest: foreign aid is always disparaged but it is about 1%, $30 billion to $35 billion that get support from the united states in terms of "foreign aid." there are agricultural subsidies and other programs which is called direct aid, economic aid and military aid, somewhere around 1%. it is not a large amount. host: john is in bloomfield hills, michigan, independent. caller: good morning. i have a question regarding

congress'basic performance, and that is they are fighting about most everything all the time and if you get somebody some benefit that can sway their vote the other way so they could start mixing republican, democrat votes by having more of a need-based vote instead of this is how we are voting, so-called, the republicans say, how early voting on this and the democrat say how are we voting and we could break up the logjam. how do you perceive that position? guest: the common objective should be to provide services that the government is supposed to provide in an efficient manner. if that is standard, then

everything falls in place. i have often asked members of congress going back to the duplication and overlap in the program, which of these programs is achieving its objectives? and the money being spent on one's not achieving their objectives should be put into the one that is working. at the local level in a community as a county or city, it tends to work better because they don't have as much money and have to balance their budgets. it is really a restriction on how the money can be spent. in washington, they don't have to balance the budget, so running deficits of to a $31 trillion debt is the result of spending that is not controlled and limited. host: that is the time we have for this segment, thomas schatz, thank you.

coming up, our weekly spotlight on podcasts. we discuss the state of the civics in america. first, your chance to weigh in on public policy or political topic on your mind this morning. you can start calling in now. ♪ >> sunday night on q&a come in her book generations, jean twangy talks about the differing to and it living in the united states, the baby boomers, gen x, millennials, jen y -- gen y.

she explores the impact of the future. >> we can see division showing up with more identifying in the extremes of ideology, more polarization between democrats and republicans on various issues, especially around race. i think it is good to know, what does this really look like over time? look at this across decades. >> sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a and all podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> listening to programs on c-span through c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio, and listen to "washington journal" daily, and

public affairs events throughout the day and weekdays, catch washington today, for a past based -- fast paced report. c-span, powered by cable. live sunday, philip howard will our guest on in-depth to take your calls and government and legal reform in america. he has written six books, including the collapse of the common good, life without lawyers and the death of common sense. joint the live conversation with philip howard sunday at noon eastern on book tv. early saturday morning, the coronation of king charles, iii.

he became the king following the death of his mother, longest reigning monarch. c-span will air it from the rope procession to westminster abbey to the official crowning of the new king. saturday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span or online at c-span.org. >> of the democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work where citizens have a republic thriving. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the nation's capital to wherever you are, the opinion that matos -- matters the most is your own.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. it is open forum. i will be taking your calls for the next half hour. i'm interested to see what is on your mind this morning. something you should be aware of, here is an headline from nbc news.com, and that is that the cdc director, rochelle walensky, is stepping down from the agency. wilensky took over at the beginning of biden's term in january 2021 as the administration began to rule out vaccines for covid-19 and she steps down june 30. let's go to your calls. mike is in oak grove, missouri, independent. caller: good morning. i want to say that i find the ai

situation very distressing and worrisome. but what really worries me is our political parties today. the republican party is giving their all to cover for a criminal who has lied, raped and all that kind of thing. they are investigating the investigator which has already been done by john durham who came up with nothing. they are throwing our country away to cover a criminal. and we have the democratic party, they want to give our country to criminals like george floyd, a man who was killed by the police, but he had every illicit drug known to man in his system. host: that wouldn't indicate a

death sentence at the hands of police. you would agree with that? caller: all he had to do was get in the car and go to jail. host: and because he didn't he deserves to die? caller: no, i am saying the democratic party is totally messed up. they built statues to criminal. and deeper publican party is covering up for a criminal. i want to know which is more dangerous, our messed up politicians covering for a criminal like donald trump or our democrat system who wants to cover up for all the criminals so they can get the black vote. our country is doomed. i hate to say it. we might as well give into russia and china, because we are living with bad politicians and they all need to be removed. host: he did mention the trial

concerning e. jean carroll and this is cbs.com reporting this, it is a video of a deposition made public amid lawsuit trials. if you like to see it, you can see at on our website, c-span.org in its entirety. steve in mississippi, republican. good morning. caller: i have a question about the influx of immigrants coming into this country. i would like to know if the immigrants are coming into this country and it is depleting other countries around the world who are getting our foreign aid and it seems to me let the foreign aid we are sending to these countries are not for that

citizens because the citizens are up here. the socialist dictators in these countries are just getting rich off of our money. i would like to know if there will be anything done in congress to get rid of these foreign aides when the citizens the aid should be helping our appear now. host: let's go to gail in jacksonville, north carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. i just want to say, in the constitution, it says no persian -- person shall hold any office civil or military under the united states if they participated in an insurrection. what i don't understand is why trump was even able to run for president, that the doj dragged their feet for two years. trump should not have been able to run for president with his

part in the insurrection. the congressman that took place in the insurrection should not be in congress. it says that if the congressman takes part or aides or comforts the enemies thereof, there may be a vote of two thirds of each house and remove such disability. our congress and house has been poisoned by trumpism and there is no weight he should be able to be on the ballot. that is kind of discouraging when you are a law-abiding citizen and you believe in the constitution and you have respect for the constitution. if you are not going to go back -- by but the constitution says, why do we have a constitution? everybody keeps talking about how bad biden is and from what i can see, everything i could is booming. businesses rooming, stores and

malls, people are going on occasions. the people who complain about inflation that evidently it must be ok because everybody is going to eat every friday night. i think the far right media, especially fox news, all they do is down biden. they never talk about the inflation act, infrastructure, the chips act and the packed act. they never talk about the good things that he has done that he passed more legislation than trump did in four years. host: i just want to make sure everybody is aware that the coronation of the new king in the u.k. is going on right now as we speak. as a live look at that and the celebrations going on. he was coordinated early this

morning. if you didn't get up early enough, you can watch the whole thing. c-span will air coverage of the coronation in its entirety from westminster abbey to the crowning of the new king. you can watch that today at 4 p.m. eastern bright here on c-span or online at c-span.org. we are taking your calls. i want to make sure you are aware of something else that is on cnbc.com, the world health organization declares in and the covid-19 global public health emergency. the pandemic has been on a downward trend with population immunity increasing from vaccination and infection leading to fewer deaths, according to the who. steve is calling us from

louisiana, democrat. caller: yes, one of the things i have a real problem with is just as your first collar on your open forum and in a way your last guest you had on the show, and that is the equivalency between the two parties, it is a false equivalency because when you consider all the facts concerning the democratic party and the last three presidents we have had compared to republican presidents, which party has had the most indictments and which administrations have been sent to prison and which party now has multiple indictments against multiple republicans.

your guest had this that the democrats do this the same as the republicans. that is a false equivalency based on willful ignorance. if you tell a republican the sky is blue they will swear it is red because trump or some other republican said it was read. it is pure willful ignorance and false equivalency is a mean problem with communication in this problem -- country. host: joe is in fayetteville, north carolina, independent. caller: i think our main problem is a cult of personality. we had woodrow wilson showing birth of a nation and people acted like they loved him and he got us into world war i and caused problems we had now with wars. all we had to fear was fear

itself, but that is not true. kennedy said don't ask what you can do for yourself what you can do for your country, but it seems like the country is out to destroy everyone with this inflation. visual can make a difference, but an individual can control country of 300 million people. people won't do for themselves. the same people kit -- keep getting reelected over and over and seems like they don't care about doing their job. if they want to let aia take over, maybe it will do a better job than people in washington. host: sherwood as a democrat in the fort orange, florida. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call.

i am -- i have always wondered, because i hear people complain about president biden causing crisis to increase with the inflation we are having. my question is, how much power and or control would any president, democrat or republican, have over inflation and prices going up, gas and food, most especially? host: front page of the wall street journal this morning is hiring wages buckhead wins. april saw an increase of 253,000 jobs with unemployment at 3.4%, matching the low.

steve is calling us on the independent line, florence, alabama. caller: good morning. i would like to say a little what i have seen happen around me in the last 20 years or so. i go to my public library 10 years ago and it is a big, beautiful library and was absolutely full of books. it is a huge library for this area. it was full of nonfiction books and they started removing them slowly over two years almost the entirety. i had to take a stool to climb to reach the shelves from the top to reach for books on the top shelves. the last time i was up there, it was empty, row upon row of

shelving. they removed it. they removed history. it is no longer there. host: the budget cuts? why are they being removed? caller: it's what troubles me. in this big, beautiful library they had paintings here and there for decorative purposes in this beautiful library on the second floor where the nonfiction is. after they emptied almost emptied the entirety of the nonfiction books, and this started 10 years ago and in a period of two years they emptied it. they had plenty of room for everything else, but they put where a painting should be, they put up a frame and it had a

child painting in the background , but it was words and had an author of the guy who wrote the words, it is langston hughes, his name was. i can't remember the exact thing that the two or three lines said, but i will paraphrase, it said something like, when all the white ones are gone, it will be a more beautiful and brighter world. that is what it said, something to that effect. host: i want to show you, president biden did an interview with msnbc yesterday you're here is a portion of that where he talked about negotiating with republicans, the brinkmanship over the debt ceiling, and what he thinks about the work around using the 14th amendment clause

of the constitution. [video clip] >> for members of congress, they think it might be ok to fault. are you prepared to vote on the 14th amendment? pres. biden: here is the deal. first of all, this is not your fibers -- father's republican party, this is a different group. i think we have to make it clear to the american people that i am prepared to negotiate in detail with the budget, how much you are going to suspend, where it is going to be cut. and the first two years of my administration i cut the debt by $1.7 trillion within any president in history. there is no possible way they can pass the budget, zero possibility.

>> when you say this is not your father's republican party, is kevin mccarthy an honest broker for you to negotiate with? pres. biden: i think he is an honest man and he had to make a deal, 15 votes where he just about sold away everything that the far, far right. the republican party are the mega -- maga republicans. in order to say -- stay speaker, he has to agree with things that are just extreme. host: i am taking your calls until 9:15 eastern time. scott is next in los angeles, independent. caller: shout out to the nice lady who answers the phone and to you as well.

being an independent, a lot of this stuff is just very hard to believe it is going on right now. joe biden the other day was in front of the press telling jokes about how he makes a quick guest appearance, some of the light the easter bunny will come and grab him and are sure him a way so that he can't really take any serious questions. this is what a lot of us independents have difficulty with, because matter what people thought of donald trump, we would see him by the helicopter and if you are fair about it, he would go right down the line and take the questions from those people, and he would do the best to answer every single question. though it was diametrically opposed to this man in office now. i felt so bad when he starts

telling those press people who assemble, how brief it is and he made a joke about how he runs away and all the press is sitting there laughing, they are laughing at that. i just feel they should have more of a professional outlook. they should want to get to the bottom of the questions. i am very concerned about world war iii. i think it will trump all this nonsense that is being talked about. host: tell me more about who with the united states fight in world war iii? caller: well, i think we are basically in a proxy war right now with russia and i think by continuing to make these statements that our generals and politicians make, we are pushing more that way.

this person a few weeks ago did us all a tremendous favor when he released what was in the documentation showing once again how our government is lying to us about this war, talking about how ukraine is doing so tremendous and have the upper hand. it is just nonsense. and the fellow did us a tremendous service and i hope nothing happens to him. please, people, world war iii is on the verge right now and the american people need to start raising their voices that we are not interested in it. thank you so much. host: jesse in the seat -- muskegon, michigan, democrat. caller: i want to talk about what is going on in this country

. host: you have to your television. just talk in the phone. caller: just a minute, ma'am. i want to talk about things going on in this country. i have a lot of friends and get along with everybody. what is going on in this country now, the independents are white supremacists. why don't we have love in our hearts for people? why are you going around with all of these evil things, you

hate black people who have never done anything to you. we came over here with slavery, all they think about is well. all they think about is greed. you are supposed to build people. i have known a lot of white people and we talk and gauge other. host: let's go to craig, north carolina, democrats. caller: guy from california it sure sounded like a republican and not an independent.

i am a white male from rural america voted republican might entire life. i loved reagan and i have voted three times democrat, obama in 2008, clinton and for biden i am not crazy about biden but this country has forced me to become a democrat. host: y, cragg -- why, craig? caller: not enough people are participating in the primaries so we are getting extreme candidates. we need more people to participate in the primary process, because if we don't we will continue to get these crazy lunatics to say outrageous things to get people fired up.

we need more people to participate in the process. if we don't get that, we will continue to get what we get and it will push the country further apart. host: let's hear from audrey next in west virginia, independent. caller: am an independent. i watched -- i am an independent. i watched all the news new matter where it is from so i can get the information on both sides. i keep asking questions like why it did biden let balloons fly to get information from china. the man is doing what he has already been paid to do, and nobody will acknowledge it. host: meaning what, audrey? caller: he is allowing china to collect information on our country that they don't need to know. they paid him and they know they

have and now he is doing what he has been paid to do. in my opinion, he is a traitor. host: david, virginia, republican. caller: good morning, c-span. thanks for taking my call. i love your show. the first issue that i had i hope i'm not out of line being a male person, is how to solve the abortion crisis. i think the way to solve that is to have a referendum in the 2020 for election where every state gets the chance to vote for pro-choice this is pro-life and consideration for death of a mother, rape, incest. they should all go back to the

planned parenthood ruling that established the gestation period where the baby can live outside the womb and i think it was 24 weeks, if i'm not mistaken. a lot of these things have been cited -- decided. roe v. wade hasn't been codified and the dobbs decision turned it back to the state, but most of the state legislatures are pretty conservative and so i don't think they are in line so much with the population on this issue. i would like to see a referendum . i am not sure how that gets done. it would take the issue off the table. so that is really what i have to say. host: sarah is in st. paul, minnesota, line four democrat -- line for democrats.

caller: i was calling because i listen to the show regularly and my struggle with where our political party is now, whether it is a publican or democrat, is the extreme side of what is going on. the certain politicians so far out of the realm of what average americans actually want and need. i voted republican, democrat. i will never vote republican ever again. it is all because of how extreme they have gone. i literally want to most of the time get physically sick when i hear of men talking about what a woman can and cannot do with their body.

that is unbelievably sickening to me. it is not up to them, it is up to the female. i just don't understand how we have gotten to where we are this country. it is ugly and it is not healthy. i will always be voting democrat until that landscape changes. host: rick in corona lake, new york, independent. caller: i am calling about when of the biggest issues we have and i want to complement the gentleman before talking about erasing history. one of our biggest problems is we got people teaching history the way they want to teach it instead of the way it is written. constantly moving statues and pictures, the sad thing about it

is our youngest generation is so stuck on the media to get information from and it is how much stuff that goes out that is not true. if people would wake back up to the 1930's, one of the ways hitler's got control of germany is he took history away from the people. for the jewish people, one of the things they refused to do is have the concentration camps they were imprisoned in in europe torn down. they left them as museums so people won't forget what happens to humanity and it gets out of control. host: we will be talking about that coming up in our next segment, because up next on washington journal is our weekly spotlight on podcasts. donna phillips is our guest from the center of civics education

and her podcast is called "60-seconds civics." she will discuss the state of civics in america. ♪ >> book tv, every sunda on c-span features leading authors and their nonfiction books. at noon on in-depth, attorney and author philip howard will be our guest taking calls and talking about government and legal reform. he has written a half-dozen books including his most recent "not accountable in the manhattan institute fellow heather mcdonald and her book quote when race trumps merit, it is leading to mediocrity in businesses and institutions. on afterwards, a photographer speaks about her efforts to shift how native america is viewed throu her photos in her

book. she is interviewed by an american university professor. you can watch online anytimeapp. >> c-span shop.org is c-span's online store, browse our products, apparel, books, home to core, and assessor -- home decor and assessor reese. -- and accessories. shop anytime at c-span.org. >> early saturday morning, the coronation of king charles, iii. he became became -- became the king following the death of his

mother, the longest reigning monarch. c-span will air the coronation in its entirety from the coronation to westminster abbey to the official crowning of the new king. saturday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span or online at c-span.org. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work. the citizens are truly informed. get informed straight from the source, on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the nations cap cap to wherever you are -- capitol to wherever you are. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: welcome back. we are going to be speaking to donna phillips, vice president and chief program officer for the center for a civics education. welcome to the program. guest: thank you, mimi, glad to be here. host: start by telling us for the center for civics education. how are you funded and who do you work with? guest: the center for civic education is a nonprofit. we are funded through private donations as well as we have several very robust federal grants, research grants, to support our programming. one thing we do is increase the understanding of our constitutional history and its principles and values to make

sure that students have the skills necessary to participate in our constitutional democracy and that they have a willingness to contribute to the democratic process and know how to make change within our democratic system. we focus on the skills, knowledge, and dispositions of civic education in an educational democracy. we have a lot of things and we will talk about one today, and we have two flagship programs through which we work on our mission. one is we, the people, the citizen, and the constitution, an innovative curricular program . it is aligned to a typical civics government course. the students really go deep into

the constitutional history, its founding, principles and culminates in a really exciting congressional hearing. this happens all over the country through our state partners at the school level, classroom level, state level, and a few weeks ago we held our national finals and invitational for middle and high school students. the top winners from every state came to d.c. to compete against one another in the simulated congressional hearing competition. that is one of the flagship programs. the other one is project citizen , community engagement for public policy. that is a program that can be integrated into just about any course. a lot of the students and teachers do it at the end of the school year. we have had science teachers use it as well it is focused on

identifying your community assets and challenges and thinking about a way to make change within a public policy. bringing students into knowledge of how government works at different levels and help them identify the exact person, group, agency, elected official, they should work with directly to propose a change or improvement. that takes place as well across the country through our state partners and we have a national showcase for that. those are the two flagship programs. we have a lot of different types of media, professional development opportunities for teachers and adults. host: i will remind our viewers

that we are talking about the state of civics education in the united states. we will continue that conversation until the end of the program. give us a call if you like to ask a guest -- our guest a question. nine -- the line is democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. one of your programs is a podcast "60-seconds civics." ,how does that work? i know it is a daily podcast, but is 60 seconds long enough to have an impact? guest: if you add them up over time, it could be. so our podcast is quick, convenient ways for listeners,

whether adult or students to learn about our nation about stress government constant -- government, constitution -- our nation about government and the constitution. i love about the podcast is it is an opportunity to look at what is happening currently and add a layer of nuance about the constitutional issue and what we are seeing in the news or happening can temporarily. that is all -- contemporarily. it was started in 2009 by our current director of publications and communications. casey patterson was the original narrator. we have over 4000 podcasts, and

then we started also adding a video component. right now there are over 1000 video versions of the podcast on youtube as well. it is not enough time, but what is great about it is that it is bite sized. teachers a lot of times will use them at the beginning of the class as a warm-up. there is a quick question at the end, for understanding. to your original question, what is also great is if you go onto the webpage, you will see the daily podcast up for that day, but if you scroll down, you can search the thousands of podcasts we have in there. if you wanted to take a deeper dive into voting and election securities, you can do a search

and pull up multiple podcasts, so you can get more information about a topic you are deeply interested in. host: i was going to mention the quiz, the daily quiz based on the topic. why did you in situ -- decided to include that? guest: i was not part of the organization when we created them but the way they thought about it was they wanted to make sure no one was misinformed at the end. it is a great way if you are using in the classroom to check for listening comprehension for students. we wanted to make sure someone not in the classroom but someone listening or watching on their own also understood that they got the gist in main point of the podcast. host: i want to show you the headline from the wall street journal and get your reaction, eighth graders history civics

test scores hit record lows. the scores in u.s. history in civics first release since the start of the pandemic reversed gains made since the 1990's and the article says in the first release of u.s. history and civics score since the pandemic, the national assessment of educational progress showed a decline in the students' knowledge that reversed gains, 13% of eighth graders met proficiency standards for u.s. history, meaning they could explain periods, events, turning points in history and one for the student scored at or above the proficient double in civics. so that is only 20% are at or above proficiency for civics what do you make of those numbers, donna? guest: it is not surprising, but

is still very upsetting. the pandemic certain had a negative effect across the board on learning of all content areas. we are seeing the effects of several years of disrupted instruction and education opportunities for students with those scores. what i also believe is true is that there has been a decline and downward trend in the making because of the d prioritization -- de-prior to his asian due to previous -- de-prioritization. that has had a domino effect in policies and how classes are --

schools are funded and what accountability measures and spools and school leaders have -- and a school -- accountability measures principals and school leaders have. this is especially stark in elementary. host: we are going to continue to see the effects of the pandemic on education. are you expecting this trend to continue or do you think it can be turned around in the short term? guest: i am very optimistic. i believe it can be turned around. just to put a fine point on the pandemic, part of what students experience in school as a civic literacy beyond the knowledge piece of civic education, but how they interact with one another and a social contract

aspect of being in a school together. when you take that away and the students have a chance to interact and work with one another in traditional ways the school setting allows, you also see a shift in disposition and skill, the willingness to want to work with one another and understanding we have to resolve conflicts in certain ways and there is a way to be beholden to one another in a social construct. that part we are still getting back to that, the students, depending on their age, who were not in school consistently during the pandemic, a it is in the rebound. what is more important is we have the coursework and coursework matters in social studies in k-12. there is an opportunity and reckoning that everyone cares about not just social studies

and civics and education but cares about our country and the continuation of our constitutional democracy can do, everyone from civic education organizations like ours, legislators who counsel parents, everyone has an opportunity to make it a priority. host: let's check in with viewers. david is calling from georgia, independent. david, are you there? no, ok. there was a civics now coalition and advocacy group who reported only seven states require civics in middle school. what do you make of those numbers and what do you think of that? what is happening in the other

states? guest: the state-by-state landscape is fascinating because it gets into if a state has local control or state control over the implementation of education standards. certain content and education requirements are legislated and others are codified through the state board and those are different -- have different impacts on how local school systems can schedule and prioritize the courses. because we want to know how students are learning and what we can do to help them continue to learn, assessments are vital. they can be a double-edged sword. having a required course is a good step because that is where students are getting something.

an opportunity to learn the content and skills in the position. the assessment tied to the courses are also important. they can be a double edge sword depending on the assessment and how closely it aligns with the skills and knowledge pieces of civics. sometimes i just aligned to the knowledge. that is better -- that is better than nothing. we need to start as early in mccartin. middle school is where we have the biggest opportunity, the most flexibility to make sure we have civics or history or government in every state. host: we will take your calls for the next half hour until the end of the program on this topic of civics education. you can call us on our lines by party affiliation. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001.

independents, 202-748-8002. we have got a question for you from derrick over twitter who says, does your resource address media literacy? an open sea of adults who can name three branches of government and also think the 2020 election was stolen. i believe media literacy is most important. guest: 100% agree. if these meaning the podcasts we do have podcast related to media literacy. with in our programs we have media literacy but that is the next frontier at the center we are working on. media literacy it is something that we know we need to do better but also something we are doing in addition to all the

required content that has to be covered. media literacy to me if we're going to make gains in that and help students and adults navigate the different types of media, thinking about bias and how to determine reliable source, and make judgments in sound way, they cannot just be additional think we do. it has to be how we consume information. that is a position we need to also build within our students and our populace to do that in an ongoing, automatic way. we are looking at that at the center. were hoping to have a great resource.

they too are geared towards making sure media literacy some to integrate into civics. host: when we talk about civic -- education we talk about who decides what it should include in not include. where do you stand on that? guest: social studies has always been a contested terrain. today, although the urgency is unique to this time, the contested terrain is not a new situation. it is been happening since the dine the social studies -- dawn social studies. anytime look at how to interpret history and how to teach it you will have different dipping --

opinions the pinnacle who stands to benefit from the status quo or articulating change. is always going to be contested. the first think we have to do is focus on the courses, making sure every student has access to social studies course. once we are there, the contesting and conflict over what should be taught and how that is the next battle. to me we have to get the parsis in their we have to get the requirements -- courses and requirements and the money behind to evaluate social studies in civics so we have staffing and development for teachers. host: lewis in maryland, democrat. hello. caller: hi. it is actually lois.

what i want to mention is when i was going to school, i was born in 1961. we do not -- we had a civics in junior high and social studies. i know there is between the two, but i think one of the issues going on when i was growing up i had at home with both of my parents access to books about history and other things and i we had internet -- and now we have the internet. everything cannot be found out in schools that we need to have something because some people are not teaching their case at all. they do not have curiosity. that is not involve me. how would they present the courses so that there is some kind of dialogue where students are allies this does affect them -- where students realize this

does affect them? guest: that is a great question. we only have 23 minutes otherwise i could talk about it for a long time. i think you hit the nail on the head with the main challenge is for social studies teachers students have access, overwhelming unprecedented access to information. no real mechanism to figure out what is accurate, good information versus -- e history. people on social media taking a piece of history or fact and making it into digital asset.

a lot of times it is inaccurate or it is at least incomplete but students are consuming pieces of history that way more so than in the books your parents might have at home or will be used to look at things. isa have to use encyclopedias to hook up things -- i used to have to look up things to encyclopedias. media literacy challenge which is making sure we are not relying on the internet for kids to get their information and consume it but that we are getting -- standing there with them on the journey and helping them develop skills to be critical consumers of all of this information in a way that brings it back to how do we

history, civics with a critical lens to make sure we are looking at reliable sources and comparing an corroborating to understand what happened in history. host: make sure you are aware earlier this morning was the coronation of king charles iii eight months aft t death of his mother queen elizabethi. u.k.'s longest reigning monarch. c-span will re-air the coverage in its entirety 4:00 p.m. ern on c-span or online at .org. there is news out of florida, education week, headline says florida pays teacher $3000 for completing civics training and he says the first of 20,000 k-12

teachers to complete the course qualifies for a $3000 stipend. guest: i love it. i hope every state as a devises and prioritizes civics with a put money -- incentivize and prioritizes civics. we work and many of my sister organizations, civics now, bill of right institutes, we work -- we want all teachers to feel like they are for with their own knowledge to be able to teach civics effectively. i think it is wonderful to incentivize teachers to get professional development. i think it is important in

elementary because many teachers in elementary do not have to take history course or civics course. they're expected to teach all the different content areas a lot of times when they are -- given a schedule that includes social studies they may not have background knowledge a secondary teacher will have. incentivizing demetri's teachers to get professional development so they -- elementary teachers to get professional development they do fill comfortable is more important. host: brian in connecticut. independent. caller: hello. project citizens training. guest: good to hear from you.

for the rest of the callers, one of our research projects, project citizens research program will reengage even to the pandemic teachers from across the country into five regional annual institutes so we train the teachers at project citizen. this is where brian is right now. he is one of our mentors. i think it is both people and project citizen really supports civic education because in addition the knowledge a part of what the students learn, the structure of the program creates opportunities for students to practice their skills and the of ways and as a result a gives -- fortifies the disposition and desire to be active and

proactive and seek out ways they can continue to contribute to the community, at the school level, larger society. we see lasting effects of the program on our student. they consider themselves alumni of the program. they come back and volunteer with organization. -- with our organization. it shapes students disabilities for life and that is the power of both of those programs -- sensibilities for life and that is the power of both of those programs. caller: this is eileen. i want to thank you for taking my call. i want to let you know that i lived in california in 1962 and the one think i remember about being in seventh grade as i took a civics class and i still

remember a great deal about what i learned. i think that is a great time to start learning and i think california was a few steps ahead of the rest of the country in four teaching courses like that but i'm glad to hear there's an emphasis on it. as a former teacher i was in a was teacher in high school and i did not think it is too early to start teaching civics, especially now with the challenges democracy is having. really glad to know about your program. and thank you for c-span. guest: thank you. thank you for your years in the classroom. i remember -- i was in junior

high and i remember my class in civics and i'm glad to hear yours are so memorable. in elementary you may not teach the three branches in kindergarten or in first grade. but the disposition and the skills are something that can be building in across grade levels and i would argue across the content areas. we have reading and writing in literacy across the curriculum. you do not stop reading and writing because you leave your english class. you do not stop numeracy because you are not in math class. civic literacy is what we experience in classroom.

the reason why he supported public education was because these skills and dispositions democracy have to be learned. they have to be learned and experience. they are not automatic. the school setting is a place where that happens and we bring in the knowledge to that is how you are forming citizenship from the beginning starting in kindergarten. host: the republican line. dominic in virginia. caller: good morning. my comment is this and a question follows the comment. earlier in the show you discussed internet. it apparently seems to me a lot of the younger generation being educated by tiktok, primarily

controlled by the chinese government. i'm not a conspiracy theorist. i'm a retired engineer. i would like you to comment on what the younger generation is being educated with on the internet. thank you. guest: that is a great question. i have two teenage kids who are being educated of internet in different ways and by tiktok. i think it is what i mentioned before. it is a growing, unfolding before our eyes as far as what kids are consuming on the internet that how teachers and parents are trying to help them make sense of that. i think what happens is you have algorithms and not just in tiktok also social media, even

newsfeed and google, liver browser you are using. once you are interested in something you can click on it and fill your feet up with more like-minded videos and content. a piece of it as educators we are not able to stop that from happening but it we fortifies what we want to make sure we can do for them in classroom. that is why there is this sense of urgency. it is fighting to help students navigate that in a meaningful way so we do not have bad outcomes with misinformation. also making sure we have time and resources to do that through the courses and the finding and support for social studies across the board in civic

education. host: from freelancer on twitter ask, has your podcast covered january 6 insurrection? how did you approach it or are you going to educate on the subject? guest: we did not do a specific podcasts on january 6. we did do a special series. we have special collections like black history month, hispanic heritage month. we did do one election security. that is not generally six but it was a current issue -- january 6 but it was a current issue lighted to political turmoil around that time. i did not know we have planned to do one on january 6 but again at the beginning our take on it

is what are the constitutional underpinnings that relate to the current event or happening currently. that is something we will continue to look at. how else we can help inform the public and teachers and students who use the podcasts so they understand how it happened or never the outcome is, what is the constitutional basis for that? host: independent, good morning. esperanza. caller: good morning. host: you got to mute your tv. caller: ok. good morning. it is very important for me to know why this country do not teach, there is underclass in this goal, on morals and civics.

i come from a poor undeveloped country. when i got here i notice and i needed that class. i seen because they like of thinking as they grow, all the problems we have now that people have been told to love the party more than the country. it has to be like that? the only think what is better for their party. morale and civics please. stop teaching that the children. guest: if i understand your

question and concern correctly you are worried that students are -- in america people show more love for their party and the party politics overwrite reflective patriotism or love for our country. i agree with that. george washington in his address also was worried that probably politics -- party politics were going to divide the country. he warned against that based on geographic division, religion division, industry. that was 250 years ago and i think his warnings are still the same. they're same things were navigating today. as civic educators we talk about political parties and what will

be remedies for the divisiveness it creates in our government. if you go back to what madison said, factions are to politics as governments as air is the fire. you always have factions of people who disagree. if we can get students to agree where in the best form of government possible, is an ongoing experiment, where trying to create a more perfect union. we have a system which we can work towards that. if we can agree that is the goal and what we are disagreeing on is how we get to that point. without going to the extreme

side of our partisan politics, within the middle we have's agreement of how to achieve goals and with the common good should be but we are also doing it in framework of constitutional democracy. that is the hope i'm holding onto. to get to that point continue to build the spirit and maintain that spirit. that is an ongoing challenge. so she because today more than ever it seems probably politics -- party politics tell us apart -- tears apart. host: trish in florida. caller: i am thrilled students are given were able to witness history and learn about civics happening right now but i am sure there are adults who in recent years are wishing they remembered more from their civics education. i wondered if you could suggest

nonpartisan sources of information people can go remind themselves of the civic education. guest: absolutely. you can start the products -- the podcasts at the dinner table but we actually have a great open course, it is for adult learners. it is on our website and you can click on the main menu where it says learn. it is an open course based on our we the people course. it is free. it is self paid. you can get a certificate. you can also jump around. there are questions and

discussions from the scholars who continue to inform our work and who we work with directly. that is a great resource for our doors. we know different groups using that formal and informal settings. we also have but shorter than the full course we have our new numerous collection of videos called constitutional explain with i civics. they are 35 videos really user-friendly. i think upper elementary kids will be able to learn a lot from them. it is to the entire constitution and the amendments. in a way that breaks down how the government was put together and what it means in the texts.

that is a great resource for all ages as well. host: eric in florida. democrat. good morning. caller: is this for me? host: yes. caller: i really appreciate the program and how you have been very responsive. i have a tricky, difficult question for you. i've been doing a lot of reading now. and working with special needs families and agency photos -- four adults and guide them with programs and services in school. i know traditionally you teach students three branches of government. i've done a lot of reading. a for the branch of government in we have agencies epa, small

business, department of energy. as you teach people laws become coded in the federal code of regulations -- host: we are running of time. can you be brief? caller: should we be teaching the fourth branch of government and for not would you -- if we are not would you -- they were overlooking how the government is function? i think it is right to do the other branch of government. guest: that is a great point. i reference our national competition what we had a question exactly on what you just mentioned the fourth branch and role of agencies and militant power between the branches and the agencies and i

got to hear students from all over the country testifying on those exact questions. that was exciting. thus a part of our program -- that was a part of our program so we do talk about the more contemporary and exploratory learning because around that, that can happen in the classroom and through the we the people program. but that is something i think it sounds like a topic we should explore to medicaid a webinar, resource -- we should explore to create a webinar or resource with our teachers. host: the podcast is 60 seconds civics and donna phillips is the vice president and chief program officer of the center for civics education. thank you so much for joining us. guest: thank you. host: that is the end of today's "washington journal" and we will be back live tomorrow morning at

7 a.m. eastern. in the meantime, have a great saturday. ♪