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support c-span aa public service, along with these other television providers. give you a front row seat to democracy -- giving you a front row seat to democracy. host: he serves as their president -- it is reported this coming week. for the answer to itself, explain what it is and what position do you take when it comes to the economy. guest: we worked a lot on immigration issues in the u.s. but we work globally and we try to be balanced and evidenced based. we assume immigration is positive but it depends on how you manage it. we think it is good how you management. we really try to bring in

different perspectives. we have republican and democratic board members and board members from other persuasions around the world. host: we are here to talk about title 42. explain the specifics of that and as a management policy, how has it been since it has been enacted? guest: the way it has been talked about in the press is that it is the toughest measure implement it on the border. in reality, it is not a great enforcement. it has been somewhat unpredictable. a lot of people get in and a lot of people that get sent back to mexico and not to the countries of origin, being that it is, it is preferable to be sent back to mexico. it is a problem because it doesn't allow any access to asylum.

i think it has warmed out its -- one out its welcome. -- it has worn out its welcome. host: was that an accurate application of it at the time? guest: it was justifiable. you can make a case during the pandemic, it is easier to return them but it has outlived its usefulness as a public health measure and estate on because people think it is a tough border control measure but i think it is -- -- -- it has many holes. host: what happened on thursday? guest: the numbers are not the way they were before. the numbers back in 2018 were lower and there was a period in american history where they were

higher but in recent memory, the numbers were lower. the trump administration struggled with the numbers and they got them down by using title 42 but they will go to regular order. it is a lot more -- it takes a lot more time to do this. there are people coming and it is not clear if the u.s. government has the capacity to process everyone who will arrive at the border in a fair and efficient way and i think you will see a lot of chaos in the next few days. host: one person said after thursday, we go from title 42 to something called title eight, can you explain the difference? guest: title 42 was an measure to expel people. they called it delayed title 42 but you are not doing much process and now you have to do

process, the way the administrator -- immigration system is set up under title eight. if they say they have a fear to return to the country -- their country, the uss to do something with that. they think they will announce a role, -- we will do a quick check for we won't do the whole process but they have to lock them in but do some -- and do some process to see if they have a question of fear of being returned. and to the point where they have to do paperwork and put them on their plane and return them to their country of origin. mexico said they will take people back so i think they will do a lot of that still but the idea should be most returned to the country. host: andrew seeley is here to take your questions about the end of title 42. (202) 748-8000 democrats,, republicans [indiscernible]

--c-span.org, --(202) 748-8001, an independents (202) 748-8002. four border state residents, house their experience have/-- how has their experiences been? guest: what the biden administration learned to do is to process them quickly and get them to their final destinations. if city governments and shelters helping them to go to the nearest bus station. i think they are expecting a huge they lose because of government is not going to be able to process people in a regular way for -- and for at least a few days or weeks, that is where the orderly process will break down. we were in texas. my colleagues went from san diego to france will -- to brownsville and we were able to go to border patrol stations and

local governments and ngos. it has become an orderly process. i expect most of it will break show -- breakdown. the numbers will go up because people aren't able to get in and they won't be able to the orderly. guest: secretary mayorkas during a press conference talk about what happens at have her work -- happened afterwards. [video clip] >> we are building pathways and that the same time, we will deliver country sources -- consequences for people who arrive to the border a regularly.

in a post-title 42 environment, we will be using our expedited removal authorities under title eight of the united states code. that allows us to remove individuals very quickly. we will, by may 11, finalize a rule that we published in a proposed format that provides the individuals that do not access are lawful pathways will be presumed to be ineligible for asylum and will have a higher burden of proof to overcome that presumption of ineligibility. host: that is the preparation but you're saying the experience may be different. guest: it will be different in the numbers have gone up since last week. i think it is a smart strategy on paper. everything the government does, you have to put into practice. they try to open as many leap --

legal pathways as possible. there are many ways for people to come here and work. it is hard to do in the legislation we have but they have stretched but they got. they are trying to do processing for protection needs for people running for their lives in the region and opening up centers in guatemala and columbia and other countries to screen people and take them to the u.s. if they have protection needs. they are going to be clinical at the border and it doesn't show up -- and if someone doesn't show up with a visa or an asylum appointment ahead of time, they will process them and remove them with title eight. they will do a cursory check to see if they need protection needs and if not, put them on a plane to their country of origin. it will bring the numbers down and more people will use these legal pathways.

host: he talked about the regional processing centers in guatemala and columbia that streamlines family reunificatn processes. salvadoreans and hondurans who will double the refugee settlement in the region and increasing the numbers from something wrong -- from --can you describe how that works? guest: there is an idea if you get on this app, you can schedule an appointment. the app has which is -- has glitches. as trouble recognizing faces and children. they may be able to fix that but the bigger problem is, it is hard for people to get to the app and get to the u.s. they know they have to begin to process people for protection earlier before they get a smuggle.

many of us love the idea that any human being who is dangerous and shows up at the border will -- is in international law. it was something that was built after world war ii to protect people against authoritarian governments. it has become a hard process to manage for most countries because anyone can show up and ask for asylum. they are trying to push this back earlier and identify people with real need. i don't think the app will be a draw but i think they will catch people early on. host: our first calls -- call comes from jeannie? good morning. caller: margaret -- good morning. i live in what is considered a rule area --rural area. it used to be a lot of

immigrants would come here and work the fields and go home but it is just like, when you become americanized, you are going to do like americans. people cannot work the fields year round. they are going to have a period where the fields are doing. -- dormant. the main thing here is tomatoes and people are working the fields but as soon as they get a chance, they will go for other jobs and i am seeing that in the roads and immigrants working on the roads and working in fast food. i am wondering what in the world happened to all be -- the americans who used to do the jobs themselves -- myself. we have to figure out the resources that we have to support everybody. when you have more immigrants, you will be using more farmland

that is going to go under pavement and housing in roads -- and roads and housing we have very little of here but you will lose forests. you will lose wildlife and water resources -- host: you put a lot to offer. guest: that is a great set of concerns. i think ideally, what you want for some jobs, you want a mix. we always in the country wanted some people to come here to become americans and stay in the country. it has what made this an innovative and successful country. now for every job and for jump -- for some jobs, it is often better for people to come in with circular migration. people come in for a period and go back to their country of origin and it turns out all of the migrants preferred that because that means they don't have to stay in the country for

years. we do have one program for agricultural workers and it is getting used more and i know the administration is trying to make it easier to access and create insensitive -- incentives for people to use it rather than using it as a draw for people to cross the border illegally. the bush administration gave a huge boost of the program. we have seen the program grow through the years and for agricultural, seasonal jobs, tourism, it is seasonal. it is good to have the seasonal workers because it allows them to stay rooted in their communities and allows their -- them to be here in temporary ways but that is the ideal balance. host: there was a story about concerns over resources and one of those was the availability of

pro formal lawyers to handle this -- probe owner -- pro bono lawyers to handle these -- guest: there is not enough and i think that will be a huge issue and there is always concerns. the u.s. can withstand a growing population that -- and we won a growing population that supports the labor force. we need people coming to the country but we want it to happen in a measured way. host: louis in north carolina, democrats line. caller: the morning to you -- top of the morning to you guys. we know that this was placed -- i might have missed used with this comment but we know that the 31 --42 was placed on the

trump administration due to covid for what i am not hearing is that there was a republican appointed by trump judge who removed the 42 and did not noted -- notify the biden administration. joe biden -- i think they had some sort of court order to give them time to set up. can you tell me why this republican judge appointed by trump released 42 when covid is still in america? guest: the administration wanted to end title 42 since last year. the courts kept it alive. they said they were not allowed to end it yet and i am not sure -- i will stay away from the reasoning but they kept it alive for a while. it looked like it was going to end in set -- december. another court stated --stayed

it. when the biden administration decided to end it, that ended the rationale for title 42. the supreme court said -- there isn't in a case here. title 42 will end. i think they understand, although it will be chaotic. it will be chaotic this week. i am sure the pictures of the border -- there will be lots of pictures of teacher -- of people crossing rivers and overflowing border patrol stations. in the long term, they have to build a better system where fewer people show up at the border at the first place. more people have access to legal pathways before they hire a lawyer and most people know when they get to the border, it is too late but i think it will take time. host: you talk about that

happening. for that be consistent or will it taper off? guest: dictators off eventually -- it tapers off eventually if they do the right thing. it tapers off if they process and the and send them back and create legal pathways. people will keep coming if they don't have another hope of getting to the u.s.. if they know how to get to the u.s. legally, a lot of people will get in line. they don't know how to do it. they created with canada and spain for other pathways. you should be able to walk in and find out multiple ways you can go to a country where you can earn more money. maybe eventually australia. these are your menu options a lot of people would be going to get in line. that is not -- people have not known it until now. host: this is danny.

danny, go ahead. caller: good morning. the morning -- good morning. let's keep this conversation real. this all started when joe said come on in, folks and these people are breaking american law. they are breaking the law by line jumping everyone else. i am down here in arizona and we are a small community and we can't, due to the consumption of all these people and their drugs and everything else, is not right. joe and the democrats, and mayorkas, they all lied. all they do is life --l unlessie. you watch box -- unless you

watch box --fox, -- i didn't mean to get all fired up -- host: what do you want to learn from our guest? caller: what i would like to learn from our guest is why don't they just shut down the border like trump did and start from scratch and do it legally? i am all for legal immigration. i am dating a mexican national on the other sides of don't call me a racist. i am not saying you did but just in case. : go the point. [laughter] guest: i was there in november and is a wonderful city. it is an amazing place. i think -- dispassionately, we did a report back in 2013,

migration policy institute, looking at the fact that although the number of mexicans have gone down, central americans were next and the numbers would go up. it started to build more in 2014 and became visible in 2018 under the trump administration. central americans -- the same way that people came from europe at another point in history, they know the best way to have a improving their life is coming to the u.s. enough people are willing to take the risk. they should not have been a surprise to us. the trump administration was able to shut it down but only because of the global pandemic. i don't think we would have seen the numbers go down this far otherwise. already think you're right, the biden administration was nonclinical in trying -- and not -- was not clinical in trying to keep --

people were coming and they started coming toward the end of the trump administration. it is less about politics and i find working on this, it is less about politics than it is about policy and reality. you have crises in be atmosphere. nicaragua and venezuela have melted down. there are crises where people want to get out of town. you have that and central americans who know that this is their best option. we will see what happens. hopefully, they get on a way of being fair to people but also discouraging people for trying to get to the border. let me say one more thing, drugs is separate. jobs come through it areas in vehicles and out migrants. we sometimes conflate these issues but they tend to come

through different pathways. host: it was back in october that for fiscal year 2022, there were 2.7 million border crisis --crossings. what is that number tell you? guest: we are going to have a similar number this year. encounters and not people, the number of people is less but there are people that are not detected. when we say 2.4 million, sometimes we say, the number of people is less, true. there is probably another -- another 6000 -- 600,000. it is the largest we have ever seen. it is hard to know for sure because in the early 2000, a lot of people were coming. we did not have as many people on the border. we don't know how many people come across the border. i think the last caller hit on

something important. i would say it differently because immigrants -- i would never wane the immigrants themselves because people come because they're trying to make a better life for their family. the reality is, it is not good for us as a country to encourage people to do that or have a system that encourages that because it undermines faith in the embers --immigration system. host: let's hear from michael from texas. democrats line. you are on with our guest andrew selee. caller: let me tell you, i am a veteran and i am on social security. i live in texas. i know about all the bases, the u.s. army bases, all that is not being used. they can take them bases and can use them and take people from the border and take them to different take -- places without overcrowding.

they have barracks and housing and they can use that. they can bring planes, they have to deploy you out of there. it is no reason -- they talk about they have a security -- all they have to do is wait there and take people on the plane and take them to bases in houston they are. they can check them out and everything they need to do. if they are not well, fly them right back out. you don't have to have all these governors talking about, i will send them to the sanctuary state. host: dr. point -- got your point. guest: i think there is a lot of interest in doing this. it is concave. what -- when you try to do things across the u.s. government, i marvel at this, how complicated it is to do each step.

i think there is a challenge logistically but it is a great idea. there is interest in doing this and where they may end up doing this down the road is people, while they are waiting for asylum hearings will stop what we do now is that we the people go in bus or keep them in custody of a detected -- detention facility for the first step of their asylum process and then we let them free in the second step. if someone gets a negative decision, you have to remove them from a life they already started and their kids are in school. it makes more sense to have people in some sort of intermediate state that is not a detention center but is an intermediate state where people have their asylum cases decided in a few weeks or months and not years. we learned this -- with the afghans, they were in military bases.

because the military was dod, was involved in the afghan action to get people out, they opened up military bases and have people there. there was an afghan family that have been and one of the military bases and they were headed to go to their final destination in canada. i asked the young boy, how was it on the military base and he said it was born. --boring but they treated us well. you can create a area that does not feel like a dissent -- a detention center but it is an intermediate between a detention and letting loose to start a new life. host: it seems like there is a perception is that if someone comes to the processing center between the assessing centers, they give a silent story, and they are rented asylum -- they

get an asylum story and they are rented asylum. guest: the bar was low because the idea -- people, when they arrived, they don't have a lawyer. the problem with that, 80% of people up -- were getting through the credible fear process. and 25% was getting fewer. they are trying to do a presumption of ineligibility so instead of credible fear, they will check to see if people can meet the much higher standard. we have gone from a low standard to allow a lot of people in two a standard that is two--- in to a standard that is too high. i was -- one of the things i was

fascinated -- i had a chance to interact with border patrol and one of the things i was fascinated with was seen -- there has been lots of former military, former army and navy and sometimes marines in the border patrol. how much are in leadership positions? because the numbers are so big, they need logistical people. our people are moving into leadership roles -- a lot of people are moving into leadership roles and i suspect the soldiers will do the same thing. a lot of things are moving people and getting basic nets and bolts done. it is the u.s. governmentas when they need additional people. the military gets used not in domestic law-enforcement but in other ways to backup other law enforcement agencies because they have extraordinary ability to move into situations and problem solve and make things

move in way they need to. host: is there staff to handle what will happen on thursday? guest: not even slightly. two months from now, maybe the answer is yes but right now, they will be overwhelmed. that is why they want military there to free up border control. and have the military do logistic steps stop a lot of steps -- steps. a lot of stuff that the border to draw has to do logistically -- that the border patrol has to do logistically. host: we are having a conversation with andrew selee, from the migration policy institute. good morning. caller: the democrats' open border policy is simply a way to bring in democratic voters to

create a one party system. it is wrong. guest: i do policy, not politics but if that is the democrats' plan, that is a shaky one because static -- six is a show that historic voters are up for grabs. historically, it -- latinos were in bed democratic party but that is changing. -- were in the democratic party but that is changing. i am not sure. i don't follow the politics of this but that would certainly be a band plan -- bad plan. host: this is you are frontward saying how would an employer -- this is a user from twitter saying how --