i think the issue i would go back to is, this is within the context of, if you do not cut enough of these things, we will force a default. the final point i would make on this really quickly is, speaker mccarthy's plan is not to cut individual programming. it turns out these programs are popular. he says, i am going to cut broad category and let other people figure it out. that is how he gets to distance himself from the actual result of the cuts. host: bobby kogan, center for american progress. "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." it is open forum. i will take your calls on politics or policy related until 9:00 a.m. eastern time. lisa is first on the line for democrats.

new bedford, massachusetts. caller: yes, hi. i believe that the republicans are playing a game. they are not really going in good faith on what is good for the country. i think they are only out for themselves and they are trying to make the democrats look bad. host: with respect to what, lisa? the debt ceiling? caller: yes, the debt ceiling. they are not trying to cut things that -- i am sure there is plenty of things that should really be cut, but, they are just trying to make -- they are making a game of it. saying, oh, well, we should cut. they were only trying to cut things that biden was trying to pass. if they really wanted to cut something, let's cut kevin mccarthy's budget and let's cut secret service to trump. i'm sorry, he does not deserve

it. host: all right, let's go to audrey next in misery, republican. -- missouri, republican. good morning. caller: i would like to share on some of the sloppy spending. my daughter works for a mental health company. maybe a year now. in her job, she has found out how all these people receive the money's. all the addicts who she tries to help get a free place to live, they get on disability the minute they are diagnosed with addiction. now, they have free housing and a monthly check to buy all the drugs they need or alcohol. she is really suffering, or

caller: one of the things that the republican congressman had on before, he said that revenue grew because of tax cuts to the rich. he is insinuating the tax cuts actually had something to do with the revenue growth, when the factual information is -- i am a scientist, by the way. i deal with facts. the reason the revenue grow because there was the retail industry group. the end -- the retail industry grew because they were already rich with profits. they borrowed money from the banks. it did not have anything to do with tax cuts. the tax cuts to the rich subsidies, the corporations, was a surplus to them.

we took that surplus and government money, the taxpayer money, and they put it in their pockets in the form of bonuses and buying their own stock. they did not reinvest it into growth and manufacturing, or hiring more workers. as a matter of fact, they actually closed down factories in the united states and used the taxpayer money to build manufacturing plants in china. they made jobs in china. that was very false with that congressman said. also, when drug rehabs -- the one caller said drug rehabs are getting free stuff. they are only getting that when they are complying to not reusing drugs and rehabilitating. it is only temporary. if they do not comply and relapse and do not use drug use again, they do not get those re aides. they get kicked out of the program for noncompliance. it is just to help them rehabilitate and get independent. it is only temporary.

that type of misinformation from right-wingers, is depriving people of the ability to make responsible, adult decisions. host: all right, brian. let's talk to charlotte in pennsylvania, good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. have we ever thought about not paying our congressmen and senators if they do not pass the debt limit? i would -- i agree with one of the other people who said, you know, get rid of trump's secret service. i think that every congressman and senator should not be getting a pension, should not be getting all of these benefits that they get for their health benefits if they cannot figure out how to pass it on to the american citizens that pay their bills, that pay them. they work for us. we do not -- we should not have to work for them to do the right thing. so, let's freeze their pay or do not them paid until they pass