to get the tools they need toe ready for anything. announcer: comcast supports c-span as a public service, along th these other television providers, giving you a front row seat tdemocracy. ♪ >> next on washington journal, an update on the federal debt limit debate with politico congress reporter and auorf the huddle newsletter, katherine tully-mcmanus. then we discussed the stalemate over raising theebceiling and border policy with georgia public and congressman buddy carter and texas democrat tony cuyler. -- henry cuellar. host: it is tuesday, may 16, to a 23. the house and senate are in at

10:00 a.m. eastern this morning. later, president biden will host debt ceiling talks. we are with you for the next three hours on the washington journal. we begin adding your reaction to special counsel john durham's final report on the fbi investigation of links between russian officials and donald trump's fast 2016 compared. let us know on our phone lines separated by a little party. democrats it is host: -- democrats is (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002 and send us a tech message at (202) 748-8003. go to's -- go to facebook at facebook.com/c-span.

the durham investigation with the four year long probe, it was about a 320 page report released yesterday. here is the headline on the final report from the front page of the washington times. durham ends the trump probe. jeff murdoch has the byline. he has been covering this since the beginning and joins us on zoom. good morning. >> good morning. host: take us through the findings from this report yesterday. guest: the topline findings are that the fbi really -- russia. that they rushed ahead without following proper protocols and guidelines to verify whether or not information coming in was accurate and worthy of opening a probe. host: what did john durham recommend for the fbi to do

here? guest: not a lot. it is interesting. for a report as scathing as this is, he did not recommend a lot of wholesale change. his biggest recommendation was that the fbi have an agent or former attorney, board and oversee a special office within the bureau that would handle politically sensitive investigations from here on out. host: you write in your story, in the end, mr. durham and his result from his probe were quote underwhelming. what did you mean? guest: the investigation has gone on four years. it has cost taxyers almost $15 million. he has traveled to australia and italy, we got a report we largely already knew. the only criminal activity he

really uncovered was a low-level fbi agent who pled guilty to doctoring and email. a lot of people, especially on the right, expected something more akin to special counsel molars probe where in the end he brought roughly three dozen criminal charges, including seven in trump's orbit. this did not come even close to that. there was a lot of hype. president trump predicted he would uncover the crime of the century. he was going to uncover very bad things. even durham himself in the report seems defensive about the fact that he did not uncover anything. he has a section where he talks about how not everything that looks bad rises to the level of criminality. it almost seems like he was defensive of the fact that after

all this, how sweeping this was and how long it went on, he did not uncover a lot that we did not already know. host: was the fbi defensive in their reaction to the report? guest: a little. they have said they have tried to distance themselves from the leadership of 2016 and 2017 and they talked about the implementation of different guidelines and protections that fbi director christopher wray has since implemented since he took over. host: what is next for john durham and the report? guest: he has been invited to testify on capitol hill by jim jordan. that is probably the next big step. he will formally conclude his probe. we will see where that goes. but this is the end. this is it. guest: and you compared the

results that john durham got through his investigation to robert muller's investigation. explain the comparison. guest: special counsel molar -- mueller brought criminal charges against 36 people, a bunch in trump's orbit. he proved russia did interfere in the 2016 election. he did a lot of stuff like that. he found a lot of information like that. special counsel durham, it was all pretty much publicly known by that time. host: did john durham identify a deep state plot here? we heard that term a lot expectations for this. guest: he did not. he was able to show that the fbi ignore their protocols and did not follow procedure. they rushed to open this investigation.

but in terms of a deep state conspiracy, that was not uncovered in any of his reports or criminal indictments. host: what was the most interesting report to the reaction that you saw yesterday as he saw folks on capitol hill and in washington react? guest: the most interesting is the democrats have ignored it. he did not give it a lot of attention. they did not issue statements. a lot of them had hyped the trump collusion probe for a long time. this undercuts a lot of the allegations in that probe. they have been very silent about it. even republicans to some degree have been silent. lindsey graham came out and was fired up. jim jordan. but even republicans seemed to shrug at the findings because there was not anything in here that surprised anybody. host: jeff has covere this from

the beginning, reporter at the washington times, a familiar face. thank you for joining us this morning. guest: thank you, take care. host: we are getting your reaction to the durham report. more than 300 pages came out yesterday, made public by the department of justice. have you read about it? we want your reaction after four years of this probe. also diving into the report. we will do that over the course of this first hour of washington journal. here is one of the top line findin, e words of john durham himself. he w the more complete reco now shows there are ific areas of crossfire hurricane, the fbi codename into the investigation into russian collusion. specific areas of hurricane activity in which the fbi badly underperformed and failed not only in its duty to the plic

but in preventing the severe reputational harm th befallen the fbi a consequence of crossfire hurricane. he writes had the crossfire hurricane actors faithfully follow their own principles regarding integrity, they would have -- seriously flawed information they failed to analyze and assess properly. john durham writing and in his report, i want to show you some reactions from both sides of the political aisle. first, from the huffington post, taking the associated press story, this is the headline they put on the story. prosecutors probe of the investigation would harsh criticism but they know no new charges. the daily kos, their headline along the same lines. social prosecutor recommends no

new charges in russia probe. it was a probe trump called the climb of the century. and from the conservative media, red state, with their breaking news update, their breaking news report. noting it blows up any idea of collusion, they write in their headlines, from breitbart, the headline: the fbi should never have went ahead with the russian collusion investigation. in looking at the left-leaning media, the washington free begin saying msnbc takes less than half an hour to complete her dutch to declare -- to declare it is a nothing burger. democrats 20 -- democrats, (202) 748-8000.

republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. good morning. caller: i have called in a couple of times. this situation has spread the world. it has split my family. we've got democrats and republicans. trump should sue if possible everybody that was involved in this. host: i think we got your statement but you are a little in an out so we will go to doug in strasburg, ohio. it independent. good morning. caller: i just called to say it was a nothing burger like you said. i do believe what a waste of money. we've got a debt ceiling, that

is terrible. back in 2008, they were higher than they are now. it is nothing -- it jim jordan is a disgrace to ohio. it was nothing. it is time to leave it lying. thank you. guest: jim -- host: jim jordan has invited him to testify. we will see if that happens. the line for democrats out of illinois. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i agree it is a nothing burger like everything else trump did for the four years he was in. made an absolute disaster of everything. i think durham thought they were going to come up with something great. they absolutely found nothing. that is my opinion.

and i'm glad that the report has been released and that we now know there really was not anything out there. although i still believe russia was involved in the 2016 and 2020 election. host: when you say nothing was found, these are the words of john durham and his report. his concerns about the process the fbi used here. saying there is a continuing need for the fbi and the department to recognize the lack of analytical rigor and apparent confirmation bias over willingness to r information from individuals connecteolitical opponents caused investigators to ilo adequately consider hypotheses and act without objectivity in restraint -- and considering a conspiracy between u.s. campaigns and a foreign power.

he says much of this seems to have been clear the time. saying that those concerns should have been apparent at the time and there is a continuing need to recognize the failures here. it's -- why is that a nothing burger? guest: i just don't believe that he found the crime of the century as trump said it was going to be. if the fbi did things wrong, which apparently durham feels they did, i really do not know what the outcome of that would create. that is my opinion. host: we will stay in illinois, this is mary, an independent -- this is in marion illinois, richard is an independent. caller: i have faith in the fbi and it goes back to 9/11. i encountered certain things

happening to a lady truck driver and after 9/11 i asked her head she informed the fbi about it. she had not. so what happened was that i called the fbi. i grew up as a kid, i am a cold war worrier from 1943. i am 80 years of age. i put my trust in the fbi because fundamentally, on that day, even they put a person that tales me and i never heard anything more about it. later when chris matthews was interviewing, the deputy for operations, who had become the acting director after the tenant had resigned, i heard about the different coatings and where they had found terrorist cells.

host: because the fbi responded to you you continue to trust the fbi and doing their work? caller: yes. i have known fbi agent's in the past and they were closely affiliated with what my dad's mission was at one point. as a prosecutor, as well as the chief of prisons for europe, for the american allied sector. but more importantly, when we go back and start examining what was happening to the ukraine at the time, there was an interest in making sure it's that the ukraine was going to be a free enterprise type market and that fundamentally people were interested in how and ways to invest. host: understanding that you continue to have faith in the fbi, do you think this crossfire hurricane investigation of the trump campaign in 2016 -- do you

think it has shaken americans faith in the fbi? caller: i think fundamentally they had been put into the crosshairs themselves. and fundamentally they were trying to appear unbiased and fair to both sides of the political spectrum. given the nature of the radical -- i don't want to use radicalization anymore. i would say reactionary positions of the right, as well as the progressive interest. they were trying to be fair and trying to examine the issues. host: richard in illinois. this is fred, prescott, michigan. line for republicans. caller: we have to recognize, nobody is saying political opponents were hillary clinton

and the dnc, who used christopher steele, who was an expert in agent, who got russians to help make that dossier. it's -- so the only ones in collusion with russians was hillary clinton in the dnc. host: that is fred in michigan. this is sophia, manhattan, new york. independent. caller: good morning. i hope you are going to be strong today. because 25% of the colors, yesterday you only had one attacker. fox news, which i used to watch for many years, i have stopped now, they are ready for you now

to attack you. for this assignment. host: what do you think about the report that came out yesterday? caller: i have always felt and prayed that truth will come. the whole week, facts and newsmax, -- fox and newsmax, now they're saying the truth is not the truth. we watch nbc, abc, cbs, msnbc and cnn. i say tomorrow is going to be hot. i hope it is pedro because he shut them off. so be ready, be strong, i love you and have a good day. host: i am sure pedro will be back in the chair soon. i will him no.

anthony in green town, pennsylvania. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. the level of apathy on the democratic sign -- side totally amazes me -- or doesn't really amaze me. anything that brings a means to an end for them is a good thing. i remember watergate was the biggest thing in 1972. it forced the president to resign. what happened to president trump by the fbi of the dnc, all of the cia, all of the agencies try to keep them from being elected. and when he was, tried to get him right down by any means necessary. the level of corruption in the fbi leadership is apparent and durham pointed out point by point. people who are saying it is a nothing burger, look back to watergate where a couple of guys broke into a hotel to spy on a dnc candidate.

you had the whole governmental process spying on a presidential candidate here and everybody says it is a nothing burger. i am perplexed. everybody should be outraged their government and the fbi is out of control. they should be amazed by the level of incompetency at the leadership level that is politicizing this nonsense. we have no more faith in the spi -- fbi, the cia, the federal government. elections were affected by what they tried to do. they had a stroke and page and mccabe, all going we do not do anything wrong. but they did. and durham pointed out. host: one person does not think it is a nothing burger. former president trump, this is his reaction from his truth

social account. saying special counsel john durham concludes the fbi never should have launched the trump russia probe. the american public was scammed as it is being scammed now by those who don't want to see greatness for america and linking to a fox news story about the durham report. the federal bureau of investigation, their statements after the release of the durham report, this is what the bureau had to say. the conduct in 2016 and 2017 that special counsel durham examined was the reason current fbi leadership already implemented dozens of corrective actions which have now been in place for some time. had those been in place in 2016, they said the missteps identified in the report could have been prevented. the report they say reinforces importance of ensuring the fbi continues to do its work with rigor, objectivity and professionalism that the american people deserve and

expect. the official position of the fbi on the john durham report again, a more than 300 page report. it was released yesterday. a four year probe, nearly four years to the day when the report finally came out, costing around $6.5 million over the course of the probe, getting your reaction on phone lines as usual for democrats, republicans and independents. this is mary kay in new jersey, a democrat. caller: good morning. i agree it is a nothing burger. i don't appreciate you having a washington times person on. i would like to know where is the coverage of joe biden's graduation speech -- commencement speech at howard university? where's your coverage about his commencement speech at howard university?

he was talking about white nationalism. he was talking about, why is tommy tuberville allowed to hold up these things for the military? this is scary stuff going on. don't appreciate my taxpayer money going for this four year nothing burger and we know that russia interfered with the 2016 election. now we have got this thing about gosar. where is the c-span coverage about these things? i have yet to see anything about these. could you enlighten me as to where c-span is covering these things? for a whole hour on washington journal? we had to listen to cnn about the former guy. now we have to listen to this durham thing. for an hour on washington journal.

could you tell me when you are going to be talking about joe biden? host: i promise you will -- you we will be talking about him on washington journal, we talked about him a lot. this was a probe that concluded yesterday which is why we are talking about it today. it was publicly released and you can read the full report on the department of justice website for yourself if you want. we've been trying to show you sections of it and highlighting some of it. what we mostly want your reaction after the amount of attention this is gotten over the past four years. this is bradley richland hills, texas. independent. that morning. -- good morning. caller: good morning and c-span. this whole issue of the fbi, about the only recourse i can see them taking is congress needs to step in and defund them

and oversee them. probably the cia as well. right now it's the fbi. but the whole body of government , these institutions within the government, it is pretty bad. you have seen the corruption of it at the surface and it is obvious. the only course of action i can see that they can take his oversight from congress. host: bradley in texas. back to mary kay's question about president biden at howard university, that speech taking place two days ago. we did cover the speech if you missed it, you can watch it in its entirety on our website at c-span.org. easy to find. the speech from the weekend, from may 13, saturday. tom in woodbridge, virginia,

publican, good morning. caller: good morning. you have no reason to be defensive, i think you guys are very fair. i listen every morning. this has to be reported. i wrote a report, it is available on amazon. i wrote it almost two years ago, called inside the fbi's domestic terrorism strategy. i highlighted all of these problems almost two years ago. the reason this report is so important is that it is far from a nothing burger. it is essentially a polite way of saying without trying to put everybody in jail that the democrat party carried out in offensive counterintelligence operation against their own country via the fbi. and the fbi after 90 days of investigating the accusations in the durham report, which would

be legal, which would be illegal for them to do to investigate an accusation such as in the durham report. after 90 days they should have shut off the investigation. that is when the fbi became weaponized against the trump campaign. that is the critical thing. host: i am interested in you writing your own report on this and publishing it. how did you investigate, why did you feel like you needed to write a report about this? caller: thank you. i ran for u.s. senate at the time of january 6 i was serving as a senior collection strategist of domestic extremism at the national intelligence office in the national counterterrorism center. i noted the hyperbolic rhetoric. it is all of the report.

it is a very easy read. it is about 50 pages and identifies the three causes of the extreme division in our country. the first is -- and what the durham report gets out, is a lack of true faith and allegiance to the u.s. constitution. if government officials will not abide by the rules and law enforcement are not abiding by this -- the trust in the american people that cannot be overcome if you keep doing it. host: you are going in and out. what do you think the other two causes are for division? he said you identified three. caller: the second cause is we do not have a gun violence problem in the united states. we have eight mental health crisis. the mental health crisis is being weaponized and causes people who believe in the constitution to become extremely

concerned they are going to lose the right to protect themselves, which gives rise to the militia movement and its srap. -- and etc. the third is government transparency. when the government makes a mistake, like a false counterintelligence investigation or ruby ridge, waco, texas. the church committee investigation. when the government makes a mistake, they need to own it. the american people are very forgiving. the american people can be very forgiving if you own your mistakes. but if you want on your mistakes, it gives rise to the computer -- conspiracy theories which gives rise to the lack of trust in u.s. government. i have been in the intelligence service for 15 years.

this weaponization of this particular situation with the fbi and all the hyperbolic rhetoric between the politicians that are doing it to get campaign donations and then the divisive nature of social media is leading to this extremely volatile situation that leads to an event like january 6 which, if you read my report, i warned in october of 2021, i'm sorry, 2020, i directly, personally warned the fbi domestic terrorist task force that this was a possibility if it kept going the way things were going. host: that's tom in woodbridge, virginia. it's just after 7:30 a.m. on the east coast and in this first hour, we are getting your reaction to the release of the durham report yesterday. it is more than 300 paces and you can read it at the

department of justice website and it's getting plenty of reaction from members of congress with their tweets from yesterday. and this from the democrats and the house judiciary committee --

that is from new york democrat jerrold nadler. back to your calls, this is luis in north carolina, democrat. caller: good morning, how are you? host: doing well. caller: i just wanted to say the durham report is only showing a

few in the fbi did some errors and they were punished for that. you look back, i don't know if they put it in the report but one had to do community service. it was a big nothing burger. i have listened to fox this morning and they are trying to make a great big issue over this thing. the taxpayers paid so much money for this report but thank god, it's over with. calling the fbi weaponizing it, that's just ridiculous. it's splitting the country up in the institutions up so bad. as far as the men spoke a while ago about people taking an oath, yes, they take an oath but

according to the january 6 thing, members on the republican side, they took an oath and they did not hold up to the oath. neither did the president, the former president when january 6 was going on. he did not do his duty and stop what was going on. thank you. host: this is rich in racing wisconsin, independent. caller: good morning, one more nothing burger and i'm going to go vegan. i'm sorry, the obama administration weaponized the intelligence community, law enforcement, every tool at his disposal to try to sway an electorate and once he couldn't do that, they hobbled president

trump with frivolous -- the muller was a cover-up. andrew wiseman destroyed 20 cell phones before the data on them was retrieved for the investigation. people calling it a nothing burger, the gentleman who filed this report, very thorough and he sounded very well-versed in what he's talking about. i've been following this from the beginning. it's kind of sad because i am independent and i think they are all criminals to be honest. i think we need to move the government out of washington and into the interior where we don't have k street doing more legislating than the people we vote for. it's said that we spend so much money dividing the country and then we throw matches on top of gasoline to see if we can spark it. let's be serious, obama, if he didn't know, i'm sorry, submit

at the powers, joe biden, i'm sorry, unmasking people, i don't need to know this. i shouldn't have to know this. the government should be taking care of this but when you've got jim comey going on and saying hillary clinton had an unsecured server running the most secret intel through an nobody would prosecute her? you can't make this up? then we have people calling in thinking it's a nothing burger? the government is corrupt. host: john durham in his report saying the trump campaign was treated differently and the -- than the clinton campaign when it came to possible investigations of foreign interference. this is from that more than 300 page report that was made public erday --

about 20 minutes left in this segment and getting your reaction to the report, this is robin in michigan, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i have been on this case for more than six years. i don't know what these people are thinking. i am a true christian. i believe that it's good versus evil. i had prayed for a long time on who was going to be elected and

it was trump. he is a very good person. his whole family does a lot for the people. i believe it's satanism and i believe in durham and his report. people need to wake up and look at the economy and what this is doing to everybody and this is the device -- the division that i believed in what it's doing to the people. host: you believe in durham of this report in the report ended with a short recommendation that the fbi create a position to provide oversight of politically sensitive investigations but no new charges or anything like that. you are ok with that outcome? caller: yes, with his report and what he's been looking at and believing in trump and the whole investigation, yes. i've been on this for over six years.

host: that's robin in michigan. terrance in chester, pennsylvania, democrat. caller: good morning. no offense to you because i love you but i wish i could talk to the guy that wrote his own report. he sure had better access than me but i wife c-span every day in nice picture, i think it was trump's first secretary of state, and their heads were together and they were laughing. i remember it vividly because i never saw vladimir ever smile before. the muller investigation was clear. they should have just shut him down at that time and it should not have gone to all of this.

trump has a hotel in moscow. they didn't mention that and i don't know if they mentioned his secretary of state. he has a relationship with putin. come on. nobody goes into russia and builds a hotel in moscow without making friends. the other thing the manse said made me laugh was people were saying things about a witchhunt. trump has been saying witchhunt and hopes for the last six years. host: is this the picture you are referring to? we will put it on the screen for you. this was back before 2016 when there was speculation about who would be the president and in

the president's cabinet and it was a story in politico about rex tillerson and business dealings in russia, is that the picture you are referring to? caller: this is not the picture. the picture i'm talking about, they were on the opposite sides. therefore heads were practically touching. they were literally laughing so hard that their heads were almost touching therefore heads. i sought on c-span so you have it. all this information i got is from c-span. i don't know what these people who call in look at. we know this report is a waste of money. i want to know whether they talked about the hotel and the relationship between putin and trump that trump claims doesn't exist.

just think, people have to think in look. c-span gives you non-commentary on a 24/7 basis, no commentary. this just a matter of looking at the facts and thinking about it. host: karen in pennsylvania. you mentioned the trump hotels and news on that front, this is the story from usa today this morning --

judy is next in pennsylvania, independent, good morning. caller: yes, hi, john howard you? host: i'm doing well. caller: i just want to state that like the female said earlier, you just have to stop and think. we are being so persuaded and it depends which side of the aisle you fall on whether you were republican or democrat, how you perceive this report. if you go back to all of the reports from watergate to clinton to monica lewinsky, this

is clinton from the emails way up to donald trump and even to obama. we need to stop and think because we are being bombarded with information that sways you one way or another. even as an independent, you have one side or the other so you have to stop and think. government is corrupt, period. look at the supreme court. we don't know whether cases are being heard honestly and legally. government is corrupt. actually, who pays for corrupt government is that republican siding with trump or that democrat siding with obama or the independent who sides either way.

i think we should have short terms so these people can get in, serve once and not until they are 90 and have that much power and that many context. everybody in washington is corrupt. host: judy in pennsylvania come about 15 minutes left in this segment of "washington journal" we are talking about the john durham report that came out yesterday. the house in the senate are in at 10:00 a.m. eastern and you can watch on c-span and c-span2 and we are expected to see another meeting this week between congressional leaders and president biden to talk about the debt ceiling. that meeting is expected at 3 p.m. eastern and here is a story on that from the washington post.

we will do that in about 15 minutes with politico, a congressional reporter and the author of their newsletter to bring us up to date whether the talks are headed into that meeting. one other story to let you know about taking place in the d.c. area -- fairfax city police arrested a suspect yesterday on suspicion of assaulting to congressional staffers who work for congressman gerald connolly, a virginia democrat. an individual entered his district office in fairfax, a suburb of washington, d.c. come armed with a baseball bat and asked for the congressman. he wasn't in the office and a person committed an act of violence against members of his staff. he hit one in the head and in turn in the side. capitol police said the suspect

was identified as a 49-year-old fairfax who faces two charges, one count of aggravated assault and malicious looting. they didn't specify whether the attack was ideologically motivated. back to your calls this morning as we talk about the durham report. this is steven massachusetts, republican, good morning. caller: hey john, how are you? host: doing well, go ahead. caller: i remember that when donald trump said he was being taped, his cuff -- his phone conversations were being taped and everyone laughed and said it was ridiculous that that wasn't happening. then chuck schumer came out on stage and he said if you mess with the agency, it will get you seven days to sunday. i will never forget that quote and i wondered what he meant by that but you can see what he

meant as it goes on. this is a nothing burger if your people -- your conversations are being taped and you being followed by six agencies and it goes on and on. after that election, we go onto the next election and klapper is there and they are being investigated now coming into congress. we are finding out about the second election and what went on with the agencies. people saying we are not talking about joe biden. i don't think a democrat can have more than two sentences without talking to donald trump. i thoroughly believe that the arrangement syndrome is actual. -- the derangement syndrome is actual. my friends talk for hours we never mentioned joe biden once. we mention who should run and whatnot but i thoroughly believe

there is such a derangement toward this man and you can hereby people calling up and saying i believe he was involved in russia. to this day come is been proven he wasn't i wanted to finish saying that in 2016 it was shown in the durham investigation that john brenner went to barack obama and joe biden and told them that hillary was planning to link trump to russia and nothing was done. that's in the nothing burger so have a great day. tell me what seven days to sunday means. host: this is jeff from dearborn, michigan, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, john. i want everybody to remember the exact reason why this was looked into in the first place and that was that people -- trump

surround himself, they were in contact with known russian assets. if i'm not mistaken, trumplandia was the group in the pocket of donald trump and they were going to fix everything. what happened? thanks. host: fort lauderdale, florida, this is an independent, good morning. caller: good morning, john, thank you for taking my call. it sounds like the fbi obstructed justice. i think durham would've had this investigation wrapped up in a couple of months. the fbi was hiding documents, shredding documents, making all kind of laws. why are they still funded? they had 18 fbi agent go after

roger stone, a senior citizen. it's ridiculous. they need to be defunded and they need to answer for everything they have done. thank you for taking my call. host: talking about documents and being in possession of documents of note of the special counsel investigation still going on that they have to do with documents. this is from the washington times -- this is jim in new jersey, republican, good morning, you are next. are you with us? then jeff is next in woodbridge, virginia, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning and thank

you for taking michael. -- taking my call. i am glad the durham investigation happened because it showed after a six-year investigation millions of dollars spent in the two prosecutions that were brought by the fbi were acquitted by the jury. i know that conservatives pin their hopes on this investigation for a lot of things and thought we would get the obamas and the clintons and it really produced a nothing burger. once again, it shows that for all the hopes they want to pin this on in the fbi is corrupt and the clintons and o'donnell -- own obama's in the bidens wanted to get the trump family and it was an illegal investigation, the only person affected by an fbi investigation was hillary clinton because it cost her the election.

in the end, the prediction for the durham report, this will be forgotten next week and fox news probably won't even cover it. in the end, it produced nothing. i'm glad it happened because it shows if there was evidence, he would have been held accountable. in the end, he didn't do it because he couldn't prove anything. thank you for my call. host: a wrap up on the investigation from the story and the washington times --

a wrap up of those investigations brought by john durham. this is mike in oak grove, missouri, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, john. i'm tired of nothing burger's as well. this is a bunch of -- this is five pounds ofbs and it to pound bag. it reminds me of james comer and what he did to republicans the other day talking about the biden crime family. now all of their witnesses are in jail or in court.

there one witness, their big witness is actually an israeli arms dealer who has international charges against him. he skipped out on his bail which is why he can't be found. it's all a bunch of bull. all durham did was bring up stuff that was already hashed out. my word to the republicans as an independent is if you want my vote in 24, you better start doing something for the country and stop trying to protect the only president in our history that said that the constitution should be rescinded. thank you for listening. [no audio] host: go ahead. caller: i agree with the guy

from massachusetts about six callers back. i wanted to say opinions are -- everyone has one. i'm glad durham did what he did. i think a lot of the people coming in our bill toward donald trump because there is going to be more stuff coming out. you better be worrying about the border, about our country because the illegals will take over this country. the next thing that lady needs to worry about is china buying property over here instead of worrying about digging up more stuff on donald trump. nothing that's been dug up so far stock. we need to worry about present things, not passed stuff and we need to pray. we need to get on our knees and pray. host: it's time for a couple of

more callers, winston-salem, north carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. trump always said he wanted to run america like russia. people need to think about the things he had said. joe biden is a lovely age. the older he gets, the more mature he gets. i love my president. before president biden, i didn't have a president. i ran my own country. host: what do you mean you ran your own country? caller: i did what i had to do for me. trump was not helping me. he was making me go into a ditch. he is a bully. host: this is jan in morton, illinois, independent, good

morning. caller: good morning, people who talk about the investigation as producing nothing -- i at least respect the fact that everything was done legally and i think you have to give credit to the amount of time that was put in for that investigation. it's more important to me the front investigation on vladimir putin and how he was so fearful of having hillary clinton in the white house because of her for reach -- far-reaching when she was secretary of state. for me, it's not about who did what or was trump really trying to get help from the russians as far as his own campaign. more important to me is the kind of relationship that occurred and how fearful program was of having hillary clinton the white house and how he, in his own way

and through the russian bots and things that promoted trump because he wanted trump. it wasn't so much that trump had an association with putin, which he did but what was more important is putting himself wanted trump in the white house. host: our last caller in this first segment of "washington journal." plenty more to talk about so stick around. up next, we will be joined by the politico congressional reporter to talk about the latest on the debt limit negotiations and later, we will be joint by georgia republican buddy carter, member of the budget committee to discuss the debt ceiling negotiations in the end of title 42 immigration policy. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ ♪

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get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: katherine tully-mcmanus joins us now for an update on negotiations over the u.s. debt limit. we know the congressional leaders are set to meet today with the president at 3 p.m. this is your headline this morning heading into the talks. fresh dynamics, same sharp rhetoric. guest: yes, so it's been a week since the last time what we call the big four, schumer, mcconnell, mccarthy, and jeffries will be meeting at the white house with resident joe biden to talk and try to get on the same page about the debt

limit and spending cuts. democrats of course maintain that they would like those discussions to be separate. republicans maintain they need to be tied together. completely tied together. they will not be held to vote for anything that divorces them. not much has moved since their meeting last week. there was a signal on friday where they canceled another potential meeting because of staff level talks that seemed to -- i don't know if progress is the right word but they were at least continuing so they wanted to give those folks more time to hash things out. this is a reconvening after a whole week of staff level talks between the principles and sitting down at the white house in more symbolic than, you know, a flip phone call. host: the thing that has moved

as the ticking clock i'm getting closer to the so-called x date when we might the debt ceiling. an update from the treasury secretary already this week. where are we on that? guest: the date is still as soon as june 1. host: what does it mean, as soon as? guest: the treasury department has already been using extraordinary measures, trying to find ways to put this off for months, frankly. the debt limit was supposed to be reached months ago. they are coming to the end of that road. the default would be catastrophic. the economy, everyone both parties agree that default would be a terrible outcome. we have already seen the brinksmanship in 2011 that led to a credit downgrade from two separate agencies.

even after a deal was struck, credit agencies were so freaked out by how partisan it had become that they downgraded the united states. when we talk about the june 1 deadline, it is getting to a sweating point. the senate is on recess next week. the house is set to be on recess the last week of may. and joe biden leaves for japan in the middle of this week. for the g7. so we are looking at this kind of, these talks today are not just a reconvening. but probably a discussion of what is the plan here to get this done by the deadline. even if we don't have the details hammered out, the ship chuck schumer need to tell senators -- tough luck, be here next week? does kevin mccarthy do the same for the last week of may?

will the congressional schedule be upended for the rest of the month and possibly into june? host: the latest on the federal debt limit debate. katherine tully-mcmanus is our guest for this segment of "the washington journal. start calling in with your questions and comments on this. phone lines as usual, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. please all reports yesterday of the white house offering to talk about tax loopholes and trying to close those as a part of this negotiation. what did you hear, what are you hearing about that? guest: that has been a point that democrats have hammered for a long time. one way to bring in additional revenue in this country is to really crack down some of the race the wealthiest americans skirt tax laws.

that is one way they were hoping to, you know, boost american revenue. republicans have kind of said it's a nonstarter. especially after the warm reception they got for many of their tax cuts under the trump administration. they are not looking to tighten up those loopholes. i know that the president has also seemed like he might be open to talks about republican entrees into increasing basically work requirements and other more stringent policies from safety net programs, eating food stamps. the president kind of opened the door for talks about that, although i do expect progressives in the democratic party to all caps that. -- party to balk at that.

host: spending caps, clawing back the unspent money from covid relief, and that permitting reform as a way to open up domestic energy production. is that your understanding of these three pillars? guest: i definitely think those are on the table. honestly at this point those are the three we are hearing about. i am sure that there are other topics on the table or that folks are forcing into those conversations that frankly just don't know are on the table yet. i do think that especially the permitting is a way that both parties could pull support from members that could be outliers on any deals. if they can satisfy those folks with a permitting plan. orsino joe manchin has talked about this in the senate

republicans have their own proposals. that is definitely an option. covid aid, the details are lacking on those proposals. in part because there were so many bills billed as covid aid starting in early 2020. there are so many that were distributed to so many places, state-level or local grant. like that. decide where to claw that back, it can even get political which states clawback heading into an election year. guest: going to take some calls, katherine tully-mcmanus is with us until 8:30. john, ventura, california, republican, good morning. caller: good morning, everyone. i would like to start off with

the omnibus bill. maybe you could answer some questions about that. there was no republican input. $6 trillion. remember, it caused huge amounts of inflation. up to 10% at one point. remember joe biden saying it's paid for? well, if it's paid for by raising the debt ceiling with no republican in, now the republicans have the house and they are going back on the waste spending in the omnibus bill and this is what has happened. if they raise the debt ceiling to the democrat level, there will be more inflation, more interest rate hikes. if you raise the debt level to where the republicans made cuts, there will be less inflation and less interest rate hikes. host: that was john in california.

you remember the omnibus bill? guest: i remember it and many before it. that is absolutely what republicans are saying, the out-of-control spending is driving things and it may be a problem. i do think it is important to say that during the trump administration and even in the 2011 field with the obama administration, raising the debt mitt is a bipartisan endeavor. both parties came together to agree to those levels to increase the debt limit. and it was not along party lines. while the spending bills might be along party lines, the increase on the debt limit has gotten through on both parties over the years. guest: republican line, florida, good morning you're on with katherine tully-mcmanus. caller: in all the times you have talked about the debt ceiling lately i have never heard anybody give an actual

definition of what the debt ceiling is. we have tried to describe it like credit card payments and things like that but you have never given a definition of the debt doing and why we have one. it's a cap on the total amount of money that the federal government is authorized to borrow through the u.s. treasury securities to fulfill its financial obligations. it allows the treasury department to borrow up to a set amount, this is since 1917i believe, with world war i war bonds and savings bonds it allowed the u.s. treasury department to issue bonds without the congress having to approve each and every time the federal government needs money. so this is basically an easy way for the legislature to get out

of doing their job. so if they don't want to raise the ceiling, maybe they should do away with the debt ceiling altogether and go back to doing their job the way that it was prescribed in the constitution, which under article one, section eight part one, says that their job is to lay and collect taxes. number two is to borrow money on the edit of the u.s. government for the treasury. the first one deals with the irs. the first thing mccarthy did when he finally got his speakership was to take a vote to do away with the money to give to the irs to collect the taxes and pay the bills. host: we will stop you there. on the idea of doing away with the debt ceiling in light of this debate and running up against this deadline, there has

been more talk about doing away with the debt ceiling by members of congress. guest: absolutely. there are bills submitted by this congress and is congresses to eliminate the debt ceiling altogether. mostly from democrats. the argument against it from republicans has been that that would cause spending to be completely unfettered. where of course this caller pointed out that it could actually afford lawmakers to approve every single time they are going to cross that threshold of spending more, taking in revenue for taxes. the caller also really nailed the democratic argument about that funding for the irs, which was a historic amount to pour into the irs. their argument was that we would see this back multiple full by catching tax cheats among some

of the richest americans. zooming in on those folks who -- not low income folks who have made a mistake on their taxes. democrats say they are going after the heavy hitters, the alien ears and billionaires who can hire folks to get around american tax laws. they are trying to pour money into that in order to reap back greater amounts in revenue. that has been distributed but it will take time to amend the policies. host: on getting around or doing away with the debt limit, have you heard much about using the 14th amendment heading into this hearing or this meeting at the white house? the president act about it last week. is it getting as much attention this week? guest: plenty of people are talking about it. realistically it's far down the

list. i also think that there are many people who would like to end the debate and you know, raise the debt limit and avert default who would be very concerned about removing this power from the legislative branch and moving it into the white house and seating one element of the power of the purse to the executive branch. so that is a kind of institutional concern that folks have raised. but it is definitely still floating around. people are talking about it. i have not heard the principles discuss it heading into this meeting as a serious option. also, you can't imagine the kevin mccarthy, who took the lead for republicans on this deal, would be happy to say take care of it yourself, mr. president. host: i'm sure we will hear from

the principles soon when they come out of the white house, it took about an hour afterward last week and we are expecting the same today? guest: they will probably gaggle again when they get back to the capital. we are all waiting to see. maybe are there more details? things staff have hammered out over the last week to get this off the table for discussion by congressional leaders in the president? maybe. last week they came out and said we talked and that was in progress, the conversation itself was seen as the progress as opposed to line items on the table. host: the pool time is 3 p.m. eastern. last time there was a spray where the cameras came in. the president and the leaders did a meet and greet and then they closed doors for an hour-long meeting and then the questions and comments came in afterwards. if that is how it plays out

today, expect about 4:00 q&a with reporters. got about 10 minutes left with katherine tully-mcmanus this morning. phone lines as usual. ted in florida, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, guys. i would like to make one comment, one of the talking points frequently used, the credit rate agencies lower the credit rating back in 2011 and actually only one of them did. that was standard & poor's. moody's kept the aaa plus for the u.s. treasuries. that's all i have. host: are you worried there could be another credit downgrade this time as we get closer to june 1? caller: not really. they only ticked it down one notch and it still one of the highest ratings you can have.

host: you wouldn't be worried about a downgrade even if it happened? caller: no. host: i should ask, how concerned are members about another credit downgrade when you talk to them about this? guest: ted is right, it's the talking point they are using frequently in both parties are bringing up. i do think that those warnings from the treasury department and lawmakers are that the economic consequences of course once you hit default our catastrophe. but there is also just uncertainty that can cause significant concerns and waves, stock market or other sectors of the economy. that is something members are watching closely. they know that the lead up time can be not as dangerous but approaching as dangerous as the

default itself as they continue to project inability to solve the crisis. host: you did a story on what each congressional leader wants heading into the white house meeting with resident biden. can you do it again today? guest: let's start with the folks taking a backseat. mitch mcconnell has said that kevin mccarthy is taking the lead on this for republicans. he will not be swooping in. he and biden have a long history of dealmaking together and he will not be taking on that role. the minority leader in the house, jeffries, says he's in lock that with the white house and is definitely in communication with his fellow new yorker, chuck schumer about making sure they can deliver democratic votes for whatever deal gets made. i do think that he and schumer are on the lookout for discussion points from this meeting and some of the staff

meetings that may have democrats break off. we talked about the progressive requirements for foodstamp snapper quit -- recipients that might raise a red flag in their caucus. less so in the meeting and more so in their own caucus meetings. kevin mccarthy is going in there and maintaining that the bills the republicans have passed are the line. that is where he needs to stick, as close to that line as possible. he only has four republican votes to lose in the house. whereas of course the republicans in his conference and the democrats understood the bills to be a starting point for negotiations. but there is also an understanding that senate republicans are starting to discuss and talk among cells about the house republicans

needing to know that they need to be able to move towards a solution. we had a story on that this morning of senate republicans looking at house republicans saying you have got to play ball. guest: who is taking the lead on that if not mitch mcconnell? guest: mitch mcconnell has said that he will back a deal. what he is not going to do is support a deal that gets cooked up. we have seen senate gangs in the past. he's not going to back a senate gang. he won't even touch a house gang. i do think that he will take the lead on messaging within the conference but don't expect him to, he didn't even give a speech on the debt limit yesterday when the senate name into session. he's fully letting mccartney -- mccarthy take the lead and it will rally when there deal. host: ohio, already, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a comment into question. my comment is we are in this

mess because right before christmas, the dominus bill, nancy pelosi said just signed a bill and you will find out what's in the bill because the bill was so big. with that, ok, now we are here with inflation high. the house has passed a bill. the house has done their job. that's republicans. it's the democrats that are dragging their feet. the president, not willing to negotiate. the senate, ok, not doing anything. so and then my question is does default. if it defaults, social security is a private entity. money that was put into social security and i keep hearing on

the news, on the local news that they are going to delay checks or you are not going to get paid. i don't think that's right. i will hang up and listen to your response. thank you. host: what can be paid and what might not be paid? guest: a lot of that host: uncharted territory? guest: a lot of what we have seen in the past where the federal government has figured out how to limit strategic impasse, this is more uncharted territory. of course that social security money has already been banked. i think, if anyone is getting paper checks, who is stuffing the envelope? if folks need to

hit the button for distribution of direct deposit, those folks could be affected. those paychecks. that is what we are looking at. a tangled iraq receipt of american government and being unclear on the details of how the default could tumble through. host: eric is in brick, new jersey. republican, good morning, you are on with katherine tully-mcmanus. caller: thank you for taking the call. one has to wonder how serious the biden administration is as far as reducing the debt when the easiest source is to go after the money that hunter biden owes to the federal government and yet within the last four hours the weaponized department of justice has fire the irs whistleblower and all of the investigators that were looking into the hunter biden scandal just at a time when in indictment forthcoming.

as long as the doj and the ir weaponized by the political left, how are we ever going to have a fair situation where the debt can be looked at objectively? host: the political is a -- politicization, that coming the day after we saw the john durham report. the reaction, i'm interested in yours to the durham report in the last 20 hours or so. caller: i will honestly say that both chambers last night had questions on, but it was not the dominant topic of conversation among lawmakers last night. even those who you might really expect to latch onto it. i think that there is an understanding that that report was above board. so people are mostly taking it at ace value.

trump supporters are leaning into the message that it confirms some of the digging into him could have been political. but i also, we are also seeing congressional action on this with the weaponization of the federal government committee and investigations into biden and his family. so there is a kind of counteroffensive underway in congress. host: and there has been an invitation from the house judiciary committee to discuss the report, so more to talk about on that front potentially in the weeks to come. katherine tully-mcmanus is the politico author of the huddle newsletter. if folks want to sign up? guest: politico.com/huddle. host: and you can follow her on twitter as well. we always appreciate your time.

guest: thank you. host: up next and in the next two segments, two members of congress. first, congressman buddy carter, republican of georgia, member of the budget committee. later joined by texas democrat henry cuellar. stick around for those discussions. we'll be right back. ♪ >> be up-to-date in the latest on publishing with the book tv

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning, congressman buddy carter. i wanted to get your reaction this morning to the john durham report that came out yesterday. your thoughts on the conclusion from that four year investigation? >> i think it verifies what we had suspected. that hillary clinton and her allies for trying to disrupt -- were trying to disrupt donald trump. it should be taken seriously. we have no room for this kind of behavior in our government i know that oversight in judiciary have already asked mr. durham to speak before them. i think we will get to the bottom of this. we need to. guest: you mentioned jute -- host: you mentioned jerry nadler

yesterday with his statement saying that john durham overpromise and under delivered after four years. guest: after reading the report, i don't think that's true. i think that what he found a significant writ a lot of work into it. it appears to be accurate and a valid roof work. host: and we may hear more from him in the judiciary committee. switching gears, budget and debt ceiling in particular, what's your sense of where the conference is right now as the speaker heads into the second meeting two weeks with the president and other congressional leaders? guest: i remain optimistic we will get something done. we will pay our bills. all faith and credit of the united states intact. there's a different between raising the debt ceiling and raising it responsibly" we are

proposing is raising it responsibly. i think it makes a big difference. the democrats just want to do away with the debt ceiling. that would be the most irresponsible thing we can do. the only time people in america pay attention to the debt is when we hit the debt dealing. then they say my gosh, $32 trillion in debt, you have got to be kidding me. every american owes $90,000? the baby born this morning was born owing $90,000? it's unbelievable. we have got to address that. it's unbelievable. 50% of all americans agree with the limit plan that the republicans have proposed. host: did we raise the debt ceiling responsibly during the trump administration and are we treating it differently than last time? caller: i don't think so. the spending this administration is taking is unprecedented.

granted we went through a pandemic but a lot of the spending that took place from this administration was unnecessary. that is why we are proposing and limit savings grow act to recoup the money that hasn't been spent yet. if it hasn't been spent, it obviously isn't needed. the emergency declaration is over now, thanks to republicans. we need to reclaim the money and do a number of different things in order to limit spending. guest: the legislations -- host: the legislation passed by house republicans last month, was that the offer to democrats or is that an opening bid? guest: i think it's both. i think it is the offer that the majority of our conference would like to see. i will submit to you that there were a number of members of our conference who wanted to see even more but they are willing to kept this.

look, time is of the essence. running out of time here. secretary yellen already said it looks like it will be june 1, just a couple of weeks away. to get this done legislatively we need to make real progress quickly. host: are there members of your congress willing to go to default here? guest: there are probably some. look, we will not default. i don't see that happening. but it is very frustrating that this president is willing to negotiate. senator biden negotiated. vice president biden negotiated. he was the lead negotiator. he led the negotiations in 2009, 2011, 2 thousand 12. now he doesn't want to go she? i don't get that at all. that's what he's famous for. that is something that, you know, he has hung his hat on.

host: we have plenty of callers, let's get to them first. buddy carter, republican from georgia, various key committees on capitol hill. this is joel in michigan. salt seabury. good morning. caller: let's see if we can be honest here. you know truly that if x president trump was president now, the republicans would ask for an increase to the debt ceiling. they would get it. that's just the plain truth, if you're going to be honest. as far as the spending, we know that trump added a trillion dollars in four years to that. even the economists, the highly

educated economist did not agree with trump spending. paul krugman is one. justin moreover's is another. he said how does trump compound the spending? republicans tried to cut social security and medicare by $1.8 trillion. which is what trump got on his taxes. host: chance to jump in. guest: if we want to be transparent and honest as you suggest and i agree with you, i don't think we would have had the problem if donald trump had been president because we wouldn't have had the spending we have had. yes, we did address the pandemic as we should have and i think was the right to do. we did pass legislation that put money out there in the economy

like it needed to be but so much of the american rescue plan was unnecessary. it went to bring new deal initiatives. bringing it to the pandemic, that is what got us to the mess we are in right now. the honest truth is that i don't think we would have spent as much money as has been spent by this administration. host: david, dalton, georgia, good morning. caller: congressman carter? guest: yes, sir. host: in the interest of negotiation you are talking about the, the irs. and then the final bill on the irs with 87 new agents, there is nothing in the bill that says that they are going to go after people that take $400 or less.

it looks like that was taken out of the bill. looks like they will be able to go after anybody. it also looks like there are only 10,000 multimillionaires they can go after. why do we need 87,000 irs agents? one other thing, why is all the agencies and the government now getting armed? all of them. all the agencies in the united dates government now -- united states government now have bought all this ammunition and arms. why is that? guest: that's a good question as far as arming irs agents, i don't agree with that at all. the first thing we did in the republican majority in the session was to suspend the hiring of those 80,000 agents. i know you find it hard to believe but those 87,000 agents,

they were not supposed to be hired to make sure you get your refund quicker. that's not the reason they were hired. we have for the president say that those making less than $400,000 will not be targeted. but they have been. it is in there again to suspend the hiring of these agents. we want to be responsible and make sure the department gets what they need. 87,000 agents, that's exorbitant and unnecessary, note russian about that it host: from the peach state -- about that. host: from the peach state to the garden state. josephine, good morning. caller: your statements are upsetting. part of the package of black male was to dramatically cut medicaid, the welfare for

seniors in nursing homes. so explain why they have to be at the brunt of this. because you want to blackmail to get the package passed. you know damn well that it has nothing to do with future spending. you should be doing that in committee. it's only there so we can watch you. i have watched you. you are an inveterate liar. guest: first of all, we have not proposed to cut medicaid to nursing home patients. i know nursing homes like the back of my hand. i spent years consulting there. i certainly want to take care and work diligently as a member of congress to make sure they are taken care of we have not proposed doing away with medicaid. it does need to get back to its

original intent, to make sure that those in society who have the least are able to get the care they need. the disabled, the aged, that is what it was meant to be but it has mushroomed into something much more than that, something it was never intended to be. yes, it needs to be held accountable. states need to be held accountable as to what they are doing with medicaid. we need to make sure it gets back to the original intent. taking care of those who need it most in our society. host: there was a hearing last week on c-span about insulin pricing. they had pharmaceutical companies coming and testifying. then there was a pharmacy benefit managers with a lot of finger thing. who is to lame for higher insulin prices? guest: first of all there is enough lame to go around for everyone. but as i suspect you know it is most people know, i'm not a fan

of tbm's at all. host: you know these folks, correct? guest: yes, i practiced pharmacy for over 40 years. since i was 10. they do not bring any value whatsoever to the health care system. they are just productivity. pharmaceutical manufacturers need to do a better job. however the benefit managers are , as the attorney general in ohio stated, they are nothing more than gangsters. gangsters ripping off the public. first thing i did when i became a member to mute -- 10 years ago was to go to the ftc and ask them. you have insurance companies owning the ppm, owning the pharmacy, and now in a lot of cases they employ the provider. host: when host: fully host: monopoly?

-- host: monopoly? guest: it is a monopoly. where is teddy roosevelt you need him. finally they agreed to a study on the impact. keep in mind, all of us want the same thing for health care. accessibility, affordability, quality. 95% of all americans live within five miles of a pharmacy. it's the most accessible in america health care. if we allow pbms to put them out of business, it will limit accessibility. host: explain how they are doing that. guest: they will get bids from the pharmaceutical manufacturer and they are paid one price but charging another price and pocketing the difference. pbm is nothing more than an insurance company. the insurance company will argue that they use it to premiums low. i don't know about you, but my premiums have gone down, and

they are going to. in many cases that is what is known as spread pricing. they have the egregious practice of direct and indirect enumeration where they go back and clawback what they paid to the pharmacies. something that has to be addressed. thank goodness the ftc is finally looking into this. host: i do know that that is a passion of years, glad you got to talk about it as yours. glad you got to talk about it. caller: thank you for taking my call. i've been so frustrated with the spending of this administration and all of the things that they have not taken notice to take care of. like sending our money to ukraine. throwing people out of hotels and such. all of this stuff going on with biden and that family.

all of that money. is he ever going to have to pay the price? i love your work. i love what you do, i love who you are. i am paying double on my insurance. i had to go back to work. i'm a retired person. is there any light at the end of the tunnel for us? guest: yes there is and please don't ever give up. we live in the greatest country in the world. you hear about people trying to break in, you don't hear about anybody trying to break out. i know that times are tough and yes, spending is out of control. that's why we have a debt ceiling. that is why what is going on right now is so vitally important, we have to get the spending under control. it's killing people. i would submit to you right now that what is going on in the economy, the administration from day one, fossil fuels have

resulted in increased inflation, prices, tryst rates, and the mask have right now. look, i love the bierman -- lovely environment. george is my home. it's where i intend to live the rest of my life. i love the environment. just like everyone does. i want to protect it. but the rush to green that we have experienced under the far left of the democratic party has costs us enormous sleep. i witnessed it as a member of the conservative climate caucus. i travel to europe and i saw firsthand of the mistakes they made over there where they allow the policies to get ahead of their innovation, and as a result they closed down their nuclear plant. now they have had back to using coal. we should learn an important lesson here in america about what they have done wrong.

host: we are hearing that a permitting reform deal might be a part of the investigation. what does the deal need to include? for you to support it? guest: it needs to be streamlined. going to give you an example and i believe that this is apples to apples. representing the coast of georgia, the deepening of the savannah harbor. 42 feet deep to 47 feet deep to accommodate those ships, the bigger ships coming in. we finish the project last march, march of 2022. the permitting of that project started in 1996. unbelievable. the digging started taking place later. yes.

but the permitting started in 1996. in that time, china had started and completed three courts. permitting is killing us. everyday we get calls from developers concerned about the process. we have to streamline this. this is something trump understood as a businessman and try to address. this administration took us back to where we were before in the last administration. host: why didn't it happen in the trump administration? guest: well it would have happened if he had had more time and i hope that we get more republicans back into the white house and more republican control. it will be something that we address and yes it needs to be a part of the debt ceiling negotiations. i would call it a vital part. host: are there republicans who are supporting for the nomination? guest: i will be supporting the republican and

this is about policy we are right on policy. host: you have not endorsed former president trump? guest: i support him and if he is the nominee, certainly i will be supporting him and i think he will be a great nominee. host: to jill in woodward, iowa, democrat, good morning. caller: can you tell me what percentage of our national debt trump is responsible for. i know that i know, but do you know? host: what is your number, joe? caller: 25%. he was president for 1% of the time of the history of the country but incurred 25% of the debt. host: current u.s. national debt, $37 trillion -- $31 trillion and counting. as you pointed out that's about $95,000 citizen.

guest: yes, we did incurred debt during the trump administration, no doubt about that. keep in mind we had pandemic back then. that accounted for a lot of it. you will not find very many more fiscal conservatives than me in congress. i haven't had any personal debt is 1994. i have made certain of that but you know, look, i understand it. understand it is necessary. at the same time, we have got to stop this. we are headed for disaster if we don't address this as a country. we in the republican party have identified the three greatest challenges to our the debt, and education. the debt is something that has to be addressed. that's why what's going on right now, and i've heard people say i'm not interested in debt

negotiations, y'all going to pay the bills. we will keep the full credit and faith of the united states and now is the time to get spending constraints in line. now is the time to do that and negotiate. host: what do you say to democrats who say that republicans always say that now is the time when democrats are in the white house? guest: it should be regardless of who is in the white house. we've got to get it under control. that's another concern of mine, the power we have conceded over time in the legislative branch to the executive branch. that is why part of this act is to rain that back. host: tell us what that does. guest: any president who issues an executive order that exceeds 100 million dollars, it has to go through congress.

and that's good. because over time, and it's not just recently, it's been over time, we in the legislative branch have conceded too much power to the executive branch. it's almost become a monarchy now where the executive branch is running the country in the legislative branch isn't doing anything at all. we have the power of the purse. the forefathers set this up so that the power of the purse lie with congress in the legislative branch. over time we have conceded that. whether it is a republican, dem rat, or independent, we need to see that back. host: the scrutiny act, why can it not through congress? guest: right now we have got a democratic-controlled senate.

we passed it. it's part of the act. this week the senate is taking up that. i hope they pass it. then it will become -- hopefully will come to the president's task and he can sign it. host: planes fell, good morning. caller: buddy carter is talking about pharmacies and pharmaceuticals that have been in the business. my question is, how many people are in line to make money off of any prescription the average person gets from a pharmacy? caller: good question -- guest: good question. most of the times it's the insurance. in many cases they are losing money. that is why we see so many independent pharmacies going out of business now. that is why we need transparency. look, if a pbm is getting a rebate from a pharmaceutical

manufacturer, that should go to the patient. it shouldn't go back to the pbm, a.k.a. the insurance company. it should be passed to the patient. but the patient isn't getting at. that's where the problem is, in the transparency. transparency, sunlight is the greatest is in effect in out there. sunlight really helps. when we can see what is going on there. they want to blame all this on business secrets, that's baloney. host: michigan, democratic line, five minutes left with buddy carter. caller: congressman, my question is about section four of the 14th amendment. the 14th amendment, the language about lydia of the death of the united states as authorized by law, law being the budget, including the debt incurred for

payment, pensions, and bounties for services, insurrection and rebellion will not be questioned. it looks like you guys are questioning that, breaking the law, violating the 14th amendment. can you explain to me how you are not doing that with this contrived debt issue right now? guest: the save and grow act raises the debt limit. march 31st of 2024, whichever comes first. we are trying to raise it responsibly. as far as the 14th amendment goes, if the president decides to enact that, it will be up to the supreme court to make that determination of whether it is relevant were not. we have proposed to raise the debt limit. the limit save and grow act is the only proposal to my

knowledge out there on the table right now to raise the debt limit. we want to raise it but we want to raise it responsibly and that is the key here. guest: wayne city, -- host: wayne city, carla, republican line. caller: how are you doing? i had a couple of questions. one was about the pharmaceutical companies. i'm on social security. i have bad knees and a bunch of medical issues. they caused me $700 just to have the injections in my knees. that's out of my pocket. they charged me like $1200. that's ridiculous. for two injections. and then i have another issue with like the government, the border. i always say that if we can't get something done it's time to

get the person out who is not doing their job. so is that something you guys are looking into, are you planning on doing something about the impeachment? mayorkas? guest: i would vote for that in a heartbeat. he's pitiful. he is doing a disservice to the country and ought to resign. i have no respect whatsoever for the work he is doing down there or the work that he is not doing down there at the border. the border is a mess. it's much more than the 5 million people coming across the border illegally. much more than the million who got away and crossed that border. illegal drugs are coming across the border. fentanyl is coming across the border. enough to kill 13 billion people . right now in america there are two full problems with it right now. we have got to stop the flow of fentanyl at the border and you can only do that if we secure the border.

second, we have to address the situation of the fentanyl in the country right now. i sent the fda a letter the first of this year asking them to take on all those barriers of naloxone that can reverse the effects of fentanyl. to their credit, they did that in no you can get it over the counter at your local drugstore. that is good and i applaud the fda for that. i am critical of them with good that is important. a lock stone should be like -- this should be just like epic act. everywhere you see a defibrillator you should see naloxone. we've got to stop the flow of fentanyl into the country and we've got to address the amount, and enough to kill 1.3 billion people, in this country now.

host: we got ended there, i appreciate your time. republican congressman buddy carter of georgia, follow him on twitter. next, we are joined by democrat henry cuellar of texas. stick around for that after the break. ♪ >> nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential influencers on q&a. then hear about authors and others making things happen. these are hour-long conversations that regularly feature authors of books on a wide radio topics.

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programs on c-span and c-span radio got easier. tell your smart speaker to play c-span. we have congressional hearings and other events through the day. catch washington today for a fast-paced report on the stories of the day. listen to c-span anytime. just tell your smart speaker play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> watch video on demand anytime online at c-span.org and try our points of interest feature, a timeline tool that uses markers to guide you to highlights of our coverage. use it anytime online at c-span.org. >> washington journal continues. host: texas democrat and appropriations committee member henry choir --henry cuellar is with us. i want to start with your

district, the laredo mcallen area. what have you seen in your district in the lead up and end of title 42? guest: the 28th is the second most crossing area that we have. it's about 90% single male adults from mexico. it tells you that the criminal organizations control where people go, what areas they go in. one thing we have seen across the border is the numbers have gone down. there are about 4000 encounters lezz day or two, from the 10 or 11, 12,000 we have seen.

numbers of going down for different reasons. host: the federal government now processing people underfoot -- title eight of the title 42 has ended. what does that mean on the ground for folks across the border and how much resources does it require to process an individual under title eight versus title 42? guest: for years, people thought title 42 was the best way to expel people. but i have always been one of those, i support title 42 but i support title eight. president obama, who deported more people, it looked lit -- it looked at people who were supposed to stay and go. the big difference between title eight and title 42 is title 42 for health reasons you expel people quickly. there was no bar. there were no consequences.

title viii will have a bar if you come back again. if you use it correctly, it is a better deterrent than title 42. host: another border term we have been hearing, operation lone star. can you explain what that is in the role of state law enforcement versus federal officials along the border? guest: ther is frustration among states including texas that they wish the federal government would have different policies. so they have decided to go into help at the border. the cannot import immigrants along but they can try to prevent people from coming in or put them at eight taxpayers cost and ship them to different places, the -- be it new york,

california and other places. i wish it was like the old days where the states would work closer with a federal government so we can coordinate to make sure we have order at the border . but now people talk to each other through soundbites. host: switching gears to the debt ceiling and the meeting between president biden and congressional leaders today. you have seen these standoffs before. you are approaching 20 years on capitol hill. how concerned are you about this standoff go guest: 2011 was more difficult than this one. people will state their position. the different positions i will say. in the back of the mind, they know that nobody wants to default. the question is are you going to get close to that default period

like we saw in 2011 when our tea party folks got close to it and we downgraded the credit of the u.s. which cost us billions of years. a everybody is pushing the envelope as much as possible so they can use leverage. and as you and other people have noted, during the trump administration, in four years there were $7.8 trillion that got added. president obama added $9.3 trillion. almost the same as trump did but over an eight-year period. during the trump administration, it got lifted at suspension and the parties did not say anything. but once you are a member of a

different party, they wake up and start using the debt ceiling as leverage as they did against obama in 2011 and we are seeing it in 2023. host: would you vote for a deal that includes a spending cap, some clawback of unspent covid funds? some permitting reform? does that sound like the kind of deal you can support? guest: i support our leadership position of having this clean debt suspension like we did with press trump -- former president trump. i have my own idea but i would like to give them first -- give them credibility. i do have certain ideas that i want to give flexibility to our

leaders to see what happens at this meeting today. host: do you mind laying out those ideas? guest: i will let might leadership negotiate and then see what happens after today. we can certainly talk after the meeting. host: we have plenty of colors. -- callers. democrats, republicans and independents, we will put the number on the screen. this is joe ndc good morning -- in d.c., good morning. caller: good morning. congressman, i know there are three ways to live. three different types of lies. lies, dam lies and statistics. i get a little apprehensive. but i hear the 5 million illegal immigrants, one million, things

to do with the border and when secretary mayorkas talked about how his department is not fully funded, the facilities they are using at the border are from the 80's and 90's, i want to believe people's lived experiences and when people from texas and border states talk about what is going on, its fficult for me to believe that therthings being handled properly. what a pple talking about behind-the-scenes? do they think the border is under control? i am a democrat and a proud one, do people really think the border is under control? guest: to give perspective from someone who lives at the border. i leave the border and, today see -- and come up here to d.c.

if you look at all of the murders and assaults, it is safer, three or four times safer than washington, d.c. where i come to work over here. or if you look at the cities in the united states, none of them are at the border. i'm not going to mention any other cities. security is one thing. immigration issue, yes, there is a problem because i think there are too many people coming in and we are not using the right policies. when title 42 went away, i could tell you there were -- on may 11, it went away and a numeral new rule came in. i support it. i think it would have an impact,

to make sure that we manage the border better. you have to look at the border, a dynamic area. you look at security, it is safer than most other places across the united states. you look at immigration. there are two money people coming in and we have to make sure that whoever is supposed to be here stays and whoever has to be returned has to be returned is for -- as soon as possible. if you put 100 people in front of the immigration judge in a depends who those folks are, 88 to 90% are going to be rejected for asylum because the law is very specific. crime does not qualify. hunger does not qualify. looking for a job does not qualify. looking for the american dream does not qualify. it has to be persecution by the state. why are we allowing 100% when we

should be only allowing 10 or 12%? my perspective on the border is it is a safe area but we do have issues with immigration in different parts of the border. host: dearborn, michigan, this is craig, independent. caller: pretty short and sweet. as far as the debt ceiling, they won't go shoot with the loopholes, warren buffett said it and his secretary should not pay more taxes than he does. drop the mic. goodbye. host: he is perhaps referring to this headline from the washington post, in debt ceiling talks, proposing tax loophole proposals in the white house. congressman. guest: it is simple math, what goes in and what goes out. everybody loves tax cuts.

but i the end of the day, when you look at what has to be funded and cut, everybody says go ahead and cut. don't cut my area, education is the most important part -- transportation, don't cut transportation. it is the most important part. you can go on the military defense about that. everybody wants to say let's cut back -- cut taxes but nobody wants to touch their area. what is happening, there is more money going out than coming in. keep in mind that when we talk about the debt ceiling, we are only talking about one third of the federal budget. the other two thirds which people don't want to talk about, social security, medicare, anything on automatic or the entitlement, that is rowing because those are in formulas depending on what formula you

put in and the gross of the population. if we talk about one third -- we can do a lot of changes to the one third. but the other two thirds, people don't want their social security, the medicare and veterans benefits touched, that is the part that is going very fast. host: about 15 minutes left with congressman henny cuellar, democrat from texas. talk about the border district around laredo. john in germantown, ohio. democrat. caller: i think all of this could be handled with common sense. i think we have made all of these problems for ourselves. the border has been down there since the war. when we took part of mexico. it's -- steve jobs and these people that wanted to move jobs overseas, they could have put them in those countries right

there. they still would have saved some money. people going to disney world. their money and their jobs, they would have went back. the border down there is man-made. so we can get people over here to do whatever they do, the job they claim. host: get to your question, john. caller: my question is why can't we do something about this fentanyl? day-o won't say they need to talk to the american people. it's -- guest: there are two parts of it. there is a demand and a supply. there is a demand in the u.s., no if's and buds, people are using drugs.

the supply, you've got criminal organizations that say if somebody is willing to pay for fentanyl, cocaine or whatever, we are going to supply it. they make billions of dollars, smuggling people, trafficking people. fentanyl is very important. the migrants are bringing in this, they are coming across the border. 90% of the fentanyl, most drugs will come through ports of entry. martin between ports. keep in mind, most drugs will come through ports of entry. both the northern and the southern border. fentanyl also comes in from china and india, but mainly

china. they go into two points in the pacific, with mexico and then the bad guys will manipulate that and set it off in the u.s.. then when they come through ports of mainly the arizona area, when they come through ports of entry, people who bring in ports of entry, about 80% of the people are american citizens. we have got to have common sense on how we address the issue. the first thing we need to do is put pressure on china to make sure they stop sending the precursors, whether by ship, airplane or bail into the u.s.. host: in texas, this is rick, independent.

caller: i am a first time caller. i wanted to say there is a five or 10 minute answer to the debt ceiling. they can do like in 2011 and do across-the-board sequestering of all programs. every program, defense, everything. that is my only comment. host: congressman. guest: you just go ahead and cut everything without paying -- i sit on the appropriations and homeland, defense, military construction, the veterans. numbers of congress should have the appropriators -- the appropriators should have the flexibility to decide whether they put in more money because this is where the priority

should be. instead of doing this across the board. look at the legislators, the people who represent the district for making those decisions. i would hesitate and look into that. but i want to say one third of the budget we are addressing is discretionary. that is why the focus is. two thirds are on automatic and that is the fastest growing sector. nobody wants to talk about social security, medicaid, benefits and anything that is automatic. you have to look at the whole picture. host: are you saying it is time to take those off of automatic, that they would need to be renewed by congress? guest: those are formulas we said but we have to make sure we understand there are two thirds

and one third, the two thirds part of it is growing the fastest. the only way to address that is if democrats and republicans in a commonsense way address it. if one party decides to do it, the other is going to run ads saying he or she is trying to throw grandma off the cliff. it is one of those things we have to be real. we have to look at what is coming in, what is going on and where the biggest outlays are. host: about 10 minutes left with congressman henny cuellar. the senate is in a 10:00 a.m. as is the house. we've been talking about the meeting between president biden and congressional leaders. that is scheduled to begin at 3:00 p.m.. it was about an hour long meeting when they met. we could hear from them afterwards, around 4:00 p.m.

eastern. we will likely have a spray at the top of that meeting. the -- this is rick in chicago, a democrat, good morning. caller: hello congressman. good morning. host: what is your question or comment? caller: how come the infrastructure is in such a bad state in this country, especially the power grid in texas? why are you building things like our infrastructure, like not the wall, that is not infrastructure. guest: you're right. the state legislature had almost $30 billion. the rainy day fund was over and how they spend the money is up to the state legislature.

i can tell you that the electric grid send this and a need to be overhauled. it is on the the state legislature needs to address. instead of building a wall that will come $36 a mile, you can use two to $6 million -- you can invest the money and transportation, electric grid, health care and education. host: this is sharon, a republican. you are with congressman. c-span.org -- caller: as a volunteer in the military in the 80's, i would like a military mulliken is you cannot defend a country that

doesn't have a border. just get the rains act. with got an autocrat democrat president. figure. host: we were talking about the rains act with congressman carter. do you have thoughts on the act that would have congress approve and executive action that cost more than $100 million? guest: if you look at the history of the debt, who has added debt, it is interesting that first you look at bush and then president clinton, we have 1.5, 1.7. the lowest was under bill clinton. over eight years. then you had bush, who started two wars and the credit card and almost $5 trillion. then you had obama who added

about $9.3 trillion over eight years. then you have president trump that added 7.3 -- in four years. i don't care if you are a democrat or republican. but the lady was a republican, why do people only wake up when there is a member of a different party on the others? why can't we address it all the same? why is it that we wake up and say the debt, when somebody else is from a different party? we've got to be honest with ourselves. it is been added to by democrats and republicans and republicans have added a lot in the last four years under trump. all i want is if we are going to find something, apply it evenly. it does not matter if it is a democrat or republican. it is simple. if you buy a car, i will use a

person from the last caller, you buy a car, you buy a house, you make a decision to buy a house. maybe i will pay my electric bill before my house payment. no, the decision was made at the very beginning. why are we doing this when the decisions were made under democrats and republicans? there is a lot of debt under republican presidents that we are still paying interest on. why is it that people wake up when there is somebody from the other side? i want people to be treated the same. host: we are short on time. one topic we have not gotten too and i wanted your thoughts was yesterday's release by the department of justice, don durham's report, a four year long report that ended up being more than 300 pages. guest: i saw just the caption, i

have not read the report yet. right now the emphasis in congress is addressing the debt ceiling and trying to get appropriation bills so we start this week. host: that continues today when the house comes in at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the senate in 10:00 a.m. as well. august men heading cuellar will be on capital congressman -- congressman henry cuellar will be on capitol hill today and we always appreciate your time in washington journal. about 30 minutes left, we will turn it over to you, our callers. it is open forum, any of the issues we have talked about today that are on your mind, you can call in. democrats, republicans and independents. the numbers are on york screen and we will get your calls after the break. ♪ >> if you are enjoying book tv,

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updates and bestseller lists. find our podcasts by downloading the free c-span now app or wherever you get your podcast. and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. washington journal continues. host: just after 9:30 on the east coast, about 30 minutes left of our program, open forum. for any issue you want to talk about. the houses in at 10:00 a.m. eastern, as is the senate. other hearings today at 10:00 a.m. on c-span3, a senate banking committee hearing on the recent bank failures of silicon valley bank and signature bank. former bank officials from those banks are set to testify. live coverage before the senate banking c-span3 -- committee, on

c-span3. and antony blinken and gina raimondo testify about u.s. china relations and national security. live coverage on c-span3 at 2:00 p.m. on c-span.org and the free c-span now video app. a reminder that the closely watched meeting between president biden and congressional leaders over the debt ceiling, that is scheduled to take place at 3:00 p.m. today. we are expecting an hour or more . if they follow the pattern of last week, we expect to hear from congressional leaders and the president after that meeting. that is or situational awareness. washington today, what is on your mind? it is open forum. diane in ohio, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, john. my biggest problem right now is making me so angry. fentanyl is coming over the border as the gentleman just

stated. but every job -- or rather network, news nation, this one states it is white americans bringing in the fentanyl, not the migrants. why are republicans thinking and saying it? is it the theory that if they say it enough, loud enough, people are going to believe it? it is a lie and i am tired of it. fit sentinel is coming over, the white americans, the white supremacist groups are working with the cartels. it's -- there is one city that was right next to me. they had four people killed by the cartel. it was also mentioned, the whites of premises group --

white supremacist groups are working together. host: that is diane. this is scott in illinois, a republican, good morning. caller: good morning america and patriots. i realize every thing that is going on with the news now -- this country is divided. i have never seen it like this. but i want to touch on something. i believe it is with the bidens. why does our military and our department of defense secretary in boston -- austin, he advertises we are going to send it takes to vietnam. we never told the enemy what we were going to hit them with in the past. doesn't he realize putin and china have aircraft that will take out the tanks in one day? you don't tell the enemy what

they do. secondly, i want to say one more thing. where does president biden get the authorization to give billions and trillions of dollars around the world? it is like he has an unlimited checkbook. i thought congress decides who, where, when and how to spend money. ecuador gets $20 million for a soccer stadium. why do we have to pay for the rest of the world's stuff? you can tell i am a little upset. but if anybody knows the answer, i would appreciate it. it's host: on foreign spending, like anything else, it does go through congress. it is not the president deciding himself he is going to spend that money. it is the budgets that the state department or usaid or the defense department, it comes out of that funding that congress approves for those agencies. caller: but is that kobach to

the relief bills in the trillions that we all signed? is that stuff -- all that law stuff that pelosi says just pass it, it is in the bill? so the american people are blind to where all this money goes. we keep paying and then they threatened to cut social security, this and that. no. take care of the american people first. i know it is a broken record and i am sorry. but this is just my opinion. thank you, you guys are great. host: scott in illinois. here is brian in michigan, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. durham took way too long, he puts out his report, he told you there never should have been a full-blown investigation of donald trump. that is where it is at. just after 9/11, they set up the

courts and you get the patriot act. that is what hillary and the democrats in the top echelon of the fbi did. they used all of that. durham is pointing that out to you. there never should have been a full-blown investigation. in all media outlets, all piled onto that. basically, you messed up all of history. trump would have got elected again without all of the media, including your station. because you used all of that, what mainly cnn was pumping out. the full investigation, listen to durham's words that he wrote. the full investigation never should have happened. and that meant there would have been a lower investigation and they could not have used all of the goofy tools in the patriot act on the pfizer court. you are violating the constitution.

host: let's hear words from the durham report, the more than 300 page report came out yesterday. some four years of investigation by john durham. the headlines from the washington times, durham export he the fbi and ends the trump probe. the more complete record shows the e specific areas of crossfire hurricane activity in which the fbi badly underperformed and failed, not only in its duty to the public but in preventing the severe reputational harm that has befall t fbi as a consequence of crossre hurricanes. had the -- how they follow their own principles, there were opportunities to avoid mistakes and prevent the damage resulting from the seriously flawed information they failed to analyze and assess populate. the words of john durham in the report that came out yesterday, posted on the department of justice website.

this is maggie in california, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. what is on my mind today, as a democrat, i would like to see a primary for the democratic party. i would like to see debates. we need to give the opportunity for all americans but especially democrats, registered democrats, to take a look at the issues from their point of view. the same thing going on with the republican party. i here regularly discussed -- i here regularly discussed how trump is the top leader and all of the people running against him, whether they are pulling at 1% or 3%, they are being discussed. on the democratic part, we only hear about joe biden. host: who would you like to see joe biden debate? caller: robert kennedy junior, please. all i hear is vilification of

him. but he has a long history of doing good work. it seems to me that anybody, anytime on either party that's a buddy something up that goes against -- i'm going to say this, but a hero this today, being discussed, fentanyl. but we have a problem when it comes to our own pharmaceutical companies. i haven't even heard them on c-span referred to as cartels. that does not sound far from the truth. we have a huge opiate problem started by our own pharmaceuticals but we're going to attend that they are -- they only want to do good? of course people don't trust the pharmaceuticals. there is a long history of bad actors. i would like to see those debates. i don't want to be treated as a child who can't make up my own mind and to be told this is who

your candidate is going to be. using fear and the worst of two evils, i want to make up my own mind. host: maggie in california. news on the republican primary front, cnn with this headline, desantis presidential campaign launch far from popularity, but signaling readiness to take on donald trump. that could come by the end of the month. cnn reporting. this is jerry in st. charles, virginia. republican. caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment on what the congressman said about fentanyl coming through ports of entry. he has no way to backed -- back that fact up. he is saying americans are bringing it in. there are thousands of miles of

border and their government has no way of controlling how much is coming across and regular people packing it in backpacks. as far as discussing the debt ceiling, the country should quit spending all this money putting the immigrants up in motels and giving them free flights to wherever they want to go. think of the billions of dollars we have already spent in the past two years just to give them a free cell phone. i feel like americans are being the second-class citizens. i am not racist, i am not a racist person. but we should put americans first as opposed to spending all of these billions of dollars for the immigrants to get a free ride. maybe $400 worth of food stamps a week or whatever families get. they need to figure out this and put a stop to it.

the previous caller was down on the pharmaceutical companies, but the dea has put a clamp down on the doctors in our area. the opiate prescriptions have gone way down from what they used to be. most of the drugs are coming across the border. host: jerry in virginia. this is dave in new york, independent. what is on your mind? caller: good morning. i was reading an article that sparked my interest and thought this was something that needs to be talked about. i see that they collected the tax for 2022 or whatever it was and the average billionaire paid 8.01% and the guy making $80,000 paid 23 point something.

so we are paying 300% more than the super wealthy and they want to cut programs on this end? i have heard them talk about ending the board of education. i have also heard them discussing trying to reduce social security and medicare and that stuff. i don't know how this is going to prove to be a positive thing for this country. it just seems awful fair that we pay 300% more than the billionaires. it is unfair. host: in south dakota, this is douglas, democrat. good morning. caller: you always bring up the debt clock. the first one was started in 1989 by seymour durst. november 15, 95 it stopped because the government shut down

and it ran backwards in early 2000. they were going to shut it down on his birthday, his 87th birthday. but they started again a couple years later. another thing i would like to say is about -- i think the administration is being unfair. they haven't even called this guy illegally detained, and they got brittany home which is good, she is famous and gay and black, i don't know if that has anything to do with it, it does not look fair to mark vogel. and mccall, he sent a letter to the ministration. i don't know if they got anything back, it is age resolution, 1456, -- i wish they would ask the state department more. have a good day. host: that is douglas in south

dakota. the headline from the december foreign affairs addition of politico magazine, the other american jailed in russia on marijuana charges, 61-year-old mark vogel. good morning. caller: good morning, i am an officially love trumper. he has been vindicated. i think it is terrible they don't teach morality or ethics in the fbi. when james clapper was in the office telling obama it was a hoax made up by hillary clinton's campaign, joe biden was there. james comey was there. they are so ethically challenged and we have a president now in office that knew the whole time. nobody ever, and say i've got to speak up and say this is not right.

not one person. and they all knew it. everybody on the campaign knew it. host: what do you think is next for john durham's report? does this satisfy with what it is saying -- doesn't satisfy your level of concern? caller: that is a great question. it breaks my heart because some any people knew before i did not do anything. now they know it is in their face and they are still going to say trump is a bad guy and deserves it. he is a great man. he is the greatest american we have had in my lifetime to sacrifice and give so much. he was loved by the democrats before. he did this for the american people. we have not had a man like this in my lifetime. he is a great human being. he once said anybody that sells a dirty car is a loser. he meant that in a great way. people took it wrong, but he

saved millions of people thousands of dollars. host: charlie in arkansas. this is catherine, north conway, new hampshire. independent. caller: hi. i have possibly a musing comment concerning ai and humans. humans have friendly dog pets. ai could take over and rule the earth and do our jobs. what if humans became ai pets? ai could take humans to get groomed, take us out to fetch balls and go for walks. will they's -- will this be our human destiny, being an ai pet? thank you. host: robert, lynchburg, virginia, good morning. any topic on your mind. caller: i have a couple of

things i would like to put out there. all of the republicans talk about the fentanyl killing people. what about guns killing people? ar-15's killing people? they never speak about that. that will kill you quicker than fentanyl will. and it will mutilate your body. mexico should have some type of responsibility for letting those people come into the united states. they should put policy out that if mexico does that we should hold them responsible, letting the people come all the way through mexico into the united states and we have to take care of them. we can only take care of so many people. republicans want us to become a police state so everybody has to have a weapon, keeping bullets

from coming through. i think congress should have an age limit on all of those old folks in there. regardless of republicans, independents or democrats, they should have age limits on people that hold office. it is not a full-time job anyway. host: how old is too old to be a number of congress? caller: how are we going broke and we print our money? host: how old is too old to be a number of congress caller: i am 79. when you are 65, you don't need to be in there. start drawing your social security and take the caps off social security for the rich people. host: robert and virginia. this is benny in stockton, california. 10 minutes before the house comes in. caller: i want to address the

lady that says only white people bring fentanyl to america. i would challenge that there are mexicans that bring it also. that is who started it. they are letting all of these mexicans coming with people sleeping on the street. i don't understand the theory. why don't they close the border and clear out some of these people on the border? it is just amazing. you have people sleeping on the street and then you bring an in flux of mexicans in. and they're treacherous. host: got your point. just north of the border, good morning. caller: good morning. the previous caller stated that the durham report cleared trump

of wrongdoing. that is untrue. just like when the miller report came out -- the mueller report,. host: in california. caller: good morning. trump is guilty. coming 2 america, these people coming here, the native americans did not invite white people, they came in illegally to. this is not even your country so don't worry about other people coming here. until this is your country, then you can say something. otherwise, go back to where you came from. host: eddie, cincinnati, ohio. independent. good morning. caller: i want to say all of these people are calling in with a complaint of what has happened in the past.

come up with something to straighten out for the future. we all know what has happened in the past and if you came from where i came from and have been around as long as i have, you have seen it all and heard it all, and as long as you got the excuse -- excuse my french. as long as you got these old far it's in the -- farts in the congress and senate, they know what they did and they don't want to straighten out nothing. that is why they don't want to teach history the way it should be taught. they will find out what they have done over the years. i am an old man and i have been around. i've seen a lot and heard a lot. i am wondering how i have survived all this time. because some of those old southerners know what i know and seen what i've seen, i would not be here. but that is the way the country

is run right now. host: eddie in ohio. this is bill in safety harbor, florida. independent. caller: i want to say mr. trump could be a good president. i know he is clouded, they say he is a businessman, we shall see. but mr. biden is pushing unions. he has the most nonproductive unions in washington, d.c. i don't know how many of them are home on disabilities. but if the unions did so well, they wiped out the car companies, we get more foreign car companies producing in this country. so mr. biden, wake up. unions are not the answer. we are a private enterprise. he has the most nonproductive union in washington, d.c. and it filters down locally. wake up, america. he does not know what he is

talking about. thank you. host: in florida on former president trump the president again. that possibility taken up in the new york times lead editorial -- lead op-ed. gail collins and brad stevens, the ongoing conversation about various topics of the day. trump cannot be unseen is the headline, the more attention given the ex-president, the stronger he gets. they talk about it today. in texas, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i'm doing well. caller: i'm calling about the border and the fentanyl coming in. -- that is allowing it, our president and the democratic party, they are the cartels that are allowing it, pushing it in. he killed 42 and now he wants to

say everything is all right. but it is not. i don't appreciate them taking my tax dollars from me working all of these years in this nation and getting it to people that don't deserve it. host: tiny in texas. henry out of boston, massachusetts. the line for democrats. and you have got to turn your tv down otherwise it is hard to hear you. caller: ok. i would like to know that by question is -- the guy who did the inspection, the da, wasn't he a trump supporter? or picked by trump to do that investigation? thank you. host: you are talking about the special counsel, correct? caller: yes. host: john durham. did you read the report?

caller: i did not. host: some background on john durham from the washington post wrap up. the -- he had taken on politically sensitive in special the special counsel appointment was its highest profile and most politically charged undertaking as that of his career. he spent four years on that investigation and putting out that report yesterday. we'll take you live for gavel coverage. -- caller: good morning. i will he to talk about the gun problem in this country. and how we discuss it as a

mental illness problem. sensible gun control with background checks and assault rifles. but our population is made up of 50% male and 50% female. but the majority of most of these violent crimes and mass shootings are males so that is the common denominator in all of these crimes. they are committed by males. if we could teach our young males to be more empathetic and less self-involved and that the world doesn't revolve around them, to start teaching more about how life is valuable for everyone and you don't have to control everything. that is one of our problems. it is a cultural thing.

we don't see this in a lot of other nations. that is one way to start, the common denominator. it is definitely a male problem and aggression, testosterone, these things thrown together. let's try to get that under control a little more by discussing it more with our males about how you can resolve your problems in nonviolent ways. host: sharon in florida. this is frank and falls church, virginia. republican. go ahead. caller: i want to comment on the gentleman who mentioned the mueller report and point out that the obstruction conclusion, i believe muller said he can't find trump innocent. one was our standard of justice that you have to prove your innocence? we have four standards of justice. durham failing to prosecute, the

crimes by the fbi and the intelligence community are ok. trump supporters are guilty until proven innocent and donald trump is guilty even after proven innocent. thank you. host: that was our last caller on washington journal. we will be back tomorrow morning. now we take you live to the floor of the house of present it is, for gavel-to-gavel coverage. -- representatives for gavel-to-gavel coverage. the speaker: the house will be in order. pursuant to the order of the house of january 29, 2023, the