host: goods washington journal may 22, as we have the debt

ceiling deadline coming up. republicans want less money spent in 2024. and other things with president biden wanting things to remain flat. at that point, in the next hour, he will discuss this with this thought in mind, what would you say is the best way to reach a deal on the debt ceiling? you can call us at democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. or you can text us at (202) 748-8003. or you can also post on facebook.com/c-span or you can also post on twitter at twitter @cspanwj. more news talking about the meeting that will happen later today between president biden

and house speaker kevin mccarthy. they report this morning that most -- both men are under pressure to not make too many concessions during the negotiations. the government shutdown parts repeatedly -- republicans have not won any of the fights even though it caused serious political uproar. and when you talk about what both sides want out of the negotiations, republicans are insisted on spending less money in fy 2024. and there representative gary graves is pulling back on the redline. the white house is voting on speaking -- keeping the spending this year less that it wants the pentagon to share in some of the cost and cuts. and president biden reportedly says he is accepting the

spending cuts from the republicans. there was a recent poll about the debt ceiling and what should be done about it. they report this morning that 63% say they think negotiation should be coupled with terms to reduce the budget deficit. 19% say the debt limit should be raised and 16% say it should not be raised at all. overall adults say they understand the debate but they feel that it should be increased without condition. 37% -- without in mind in this next hour, we went to hear from you in what you think is the best way to reach a deal with the debate over the debt ceiling. 10 days left until the deadline of june 1. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001,

independents (202) 748-8002, text us at (202) 748-8003. president biden was finishing his g7 meeting in japan and then he discussed with reporters and they ask you what he would do with -- in order to keep that from happening. here is a part of his response. >> first of all, it would be a very serious circumstance if we did not pay our debt for the first time in 230 years. that would be a serious problem. so far, there has been very little discussion, they all know what is going on, about whether or not will default on our debt. number two, and number three, i cannot guarantee that they would not force a default by doing

something outrageous, i cannot guarantee that. number four, i am looking at the 14th amendment of whether or not we have authority. i think we have authority, the question is could it be done in the amount of time -- it would pass the day in question and still default a debt. that is a question i think that is unresolved. so, the point is, i think, i am hoping, and i believe that when we stood and set in the room with all the leaders from mitch mcconnell on and they said we will not default. period: we will not default. including kevin mccarthy said we not default. i am assuming that we mean what we will say -- what we say and we will figure out a way to not default. host: the president in japan saying we will not default. we will hear from house speaker

mccarthy and we will hear from you on how to reach a deal. a line that best represents you. if you called in the last 30 days please hold from doing so today areas we appreciated area and here is one from facebook. they say stop rib -- reckless spending and this would not be a problem. another says we must pay our bills. that is what republicans with a area american need a hand up. -- it is a no-brainer for the well-being of our country and citizens. and they say the parties must cooperate in order to break the impasse and increase the debt ceiling. pass the bill with additional benefits for the american people. you can bust on facebook and twitter as well and you can also text --text us at (202) 748-8003 . we start in montana, democrat line, the best way to reach a deal on this ceiling -- the debt

ceiling. go ahead. caller: the best way they could do this is understand republicans do not want a deal. and share that we do not have a debt ceiling area overall -- ceiling. overall we could drive this from democrats -- it is not hard were scary. it looks scary, but it is not scary. we do not have to do this we could stop at the debt ceiling and just not have a ceiling or if it comes to the worst we could do the best which is socialism area thank you area -- socialism. thank you. oh he hung up. mike from the independent line. caller: good morning america. you cannot of -- negotiate with insurrectionists. it is clear the republican party is turning a corner in turn of insurrection is a.

ism. and he cannot do that on the 14th amendment. and republicans increased the national debt by 25% in the last administration, when you go back and look at all the additions to the national debt, you will find that by far it has been republicans. the principal calls is the reduction in tax rates. corporate taxes nationally. -- national he used to be well over 50%. they are now down -- nationally used to be well over 50%. they are now down and many pay nothing. and we have zero real interest rates for the corporations that take debt. and they buy their shares back. it is outrageous what is going on in washington because it is theft. theft from the american people. host: ok let's hear from glenn

republican line in texas. you are next up. good morning. caller: good morning. -- am i on? host: boomer on go ahead. caller: i would : -- you are on . go ahead. caller: mccarthy needs to play ball with joe biden. offer him two choices good boat go forward with the debt ceiling or impeach him immediately. the 14th amendment is another nail to impeach joe biden. this guy need to go and quickly. thank you. host: that is glenn and texas giving us his thoughts on the debt ceiling. if you have an issue or idea of

the best way to deal with those issues you can cause on our lines, post on social media, or text us. speaker mccarthy was on the show yesterday on fox news about the deal and negotiations and their impact on revenue -- the additional tax revenue for the process would be part of that. there is a portion of that from yesterday. >> the president said earlier this morning that he will not have cuts to spending without revenue raised. are you going to raise taxes on people? >> no. that is a different thing than what the president said in the oval office. he said i know that is off the table. in february 1, i sat down with the president long before janet yellen told us he was going to be a debt deadline. i said let's be responsible, let's sit down, we will negotiate together and put america on a different

trajectory. let's grow the economy and save money instead of wasted. he ignored me for 97 days. it wasn't until the republicans passed a bill that raises debt ceiling, limit what we spend in the future, and grow our economy in the future so the economy would go up not down. but the president has shifted right after the socialist wing of the party stood up and said they want to spend more money. he is now bringing something to the table that everyone said was off the table. is he is like he wants to fall more than he wants the deal. that is where i am at. one thing you know about me is that i will not give up. we need to solve this problem and -- really focus on american problems with american solutions. host: president biden and speaker mccarthy will be meeting today at the white house as both sides negotiate a contingent deal on the debt ceiling -- they

could -- a potential deal on the debt ceiling. he composed on our social media websites, oracle in as well. this is by sarah -- or call in as well. this is by sarah -- congress ways -- raised the debt ceiling -- according to an analyst. the nation's credit rating was downgraded. it becomes a close deadline deal in the wall street journal will take a look at that and other possibilities. the government gets priority over other payment such as social security, they say it will have a notable, but less severe impact on default. they say on that scenario, the contract is at a 2% annual rate in the third quarter. and then they said -- look at

what would happen if new deal takes place. they default would trigger a recession more severe than 2007 and 2009 downturns area there would be slr up and permanently reduce holdings. it would disrupt multitrillion dollar global flows and short-term -- borrowing. which is critical to help banks and companies have operations. or if you want to read that in the wall street journal. this is a course of action when it comes to a deal. in maryland, this is terrell terrel. democrat line. caller: good morning how are you doing? host: fine, thank you. caller: i think they are trying to trick -- play the blame game. there trying to find out who can , i guess, last the longest on the default or something. i don't know what they are

doing. i feel as though if we do default, the republicans will get blamed for this. because kevin mccarthy is not -- ivy not think kevin mccarthy is a fair player. he did things to try to bring down hillary clinton old numbers and doing all kinds of outrageous things and he does not make any sense when he is talking to me. host: in this case, what needs to be done to keep a default from happening? caller: kevin mccarthy is not a fan player so i think joe biden will stick to his plan. in that republicans will get blamed for it. that is what i think. host: when using mccarthy is not a fair player what do you mean when it comes to senate negotiating's? caller: he's not a fair negotiator. he is trying to bring joe biden back from japan from the g7 meeting this that and the other. he is doing all kinds of crazy things.

he is lying about when negotiations were held, march 9, joe biden said you show me your plan i will show you mine. from march 9 and till april the -- until april kevin mccarthy did not say anything. do you agree with that? host: house republicans just passed a debt ceiling. and that is the basis of going into these debates with president biden. caller: and that is win, april, right? host: that could be at it was not long ago. caller: from march 9 until april you did not hear kevin mccarthy negotiate on anything, right? host: the second meeting only takes place today between speaker mccarthy and president biden. they met and additionally -- initially several months earlier. mark in florida, republican line. hello. caller: good morning three points if i may.

first of all, tax cuts did not result in budget deficit or overall national debt. every penny of the national debt we have almost $30 trillion is 100% a result of congress spending money that does not have to spend. allowing people to keep their own money does not result in budget deficit. number two, the only thing republicans are suggesting is that we go back to spending about five-six months ago. the republicans and the house of representatives passed a bill to raise the debt ceiling. and they've already done so. so i the senate does from here, what the white house does from here, is on them. the republicans in the house passed a bill that raises the debt ceiling. period. host: with several conditions. caller: yeah, but, the only

thing republicans are suggesting is that we reduce the rate of growth. they are talking about will be did six months ago. the rate of growth in our spending is increasing dramatically we have to do something here. just go back and reduce the rate of growth that it was six months ago and raise the debt ceiling . host: let me ask you on your first point, would you concede to the tax cut revenue. and that solve the problem? caller: no spending always results in budget deficit. tax cuts have nothing to do with us running up budget deficit. our budget deficit on a yearly basis and the national debt is 100% a result of the congress and president of the country spending money that it does not have to spend. host: ok let's hear from howard in indiana. democrat. hello. caller: hello, good morning. the caller from florida

republican caller is completely misinformed. the deficit to the extent that there is a real issue, i do not believe there are real issues is directly related to lack of revenue. relative to the expenses and it least of action that i would recommend for biden. i would like for him to direct the treasury to pay sufficiently all bills that are tendered to be u.s.. we have sovereign u.s. currency, all of this issue about death -- deficit. and identifying this as a deficit is corporate wrong. those are federal expenditures beyond tax. federal expenditures should be on taxes. that is what we are calling our debt. the u.s. issue currency sufficient to all obligations and -- they spend all the time on this issue it is ridiculous. and i encourage the

professionals and those at c-span to push back on this whole notion that we operate outside of the sovereign currency. we don't. we can issue currency sufficient for all of the legations. host: ok you made your point. if you want to call in on your idea for the solving the debt ceiling. you can -- the numbers are on your screen or you can also post on facebook or twitter. and on twitter one said both sides we make in session and neither side would win. once they make the power struggled a true deal would be reached. they cannot just put the american people first and party politics aside. this is a facebook viewer saying when it comes to coming up with a result, cut spending, every little bit hurts. that is a facebook page at facebook.com/c-span is how you posed there. and we are looking today at one of aspects of the republican land to claw back some of the

money during -- spent during covid. the unused fund. we will take a look at that in today's paper same republican-controlled house passed a bill in april to raise the debt limit in exchange for cutting various types of spending. clawing back pandemic funding would save about 30 billion dollars. and $316 billion and the government is legally obligated to pay out an additional $16 billion that they estimated would be committed before any deal would be finalized. the remaining $30 billion is by more than 31 trillion dollars in the debt that the nation owns. that also adds to the story that the possible remaining funding and sit in the department of health and human services account which has a wide range of natural and man-made public health rep. and you can find the covid funds in the clawing back of the funds being part of the discussion. many things to be discussed in

the white house meeting later today. stay close to c-span or c-span now our app you can also monitor on the website at c-span.org. let's hear from jeff. jeff is in minnesota this morning. caller: good morning. i think the solution would be to develop. if we could hear at the end of the news today that the president and mccarthy have come to an agreement and the agreement would simply be this, we all agree that our national debt is way out of control. and we all agree that our spending is out of control. the agreement that the president and mccarthy breach today would simply be this, we are going to pass a law to guarantee that from this point on, $250 billion

a year is going to be reduced from our national debt. it would take four years, every time there's a new president elected, that our national debt would go down from 30 $2 trillion to 31 trillion dollars, 230 trillion dollars, and so on. and then the congress and the senate would be responsible to negotiate how we are going to actually get this $250 billion to reduce the national debt. whether that is tax increases, cutting the military, this and that. all of those politicians could actually do those jobs -- their jobs and focus on getting this money taking care of so that we all do not have to listen to this on the news every day. they could even put in this bill that if the politicians do not

agree on how to get the $250 billion reduction by such and such date every year, that from that date forward, none of them would get a salary anymore until they have come up with an agreement. and i think, actually, i am not joking, i know this would literally take about 120 years to get the national debt down to zero, but i think within five years, 10 years, for dean, if we actually -- 15, if we actually saw this and the trajectory of our country getting out of the hole we would be amazed with the money that we would now have and what we could do with it if the national debt was gone. host: there we go those are the specifics he has come up with in resolving the deal on the debt ceiling. you can add yours in the mix if you want. let's go to jonathan in las vegas democrat. caller: it is good to hear you.

can you hear me? host: you are on, go ahead. caller: i have a credit card and i every month pay my bills. our default when a pain -- i am rewarded when i pay my bills on time. i find myself spending more than i should be spending, i still pay my bills and i felt the cost before -- i cut the cost before my next bill. why cannot -- like in our country not do that. and this is something really something. thank you. host: ok jonathan they are in las vegas. let's hear from and in kentucky republican. caller: yes, i am with the last caller. i agree with him. i have a debt limit that i go into. i've not go beyond what i can pay off. i pay my bills every single month.

wide gaps our government do the same? why don't they close and secure our border? host: that is an in kentucky. republican line remember the previous caller a couple calls back referenced is now republicans with the debt ceiling plan that was passed in congress. this is the starting point that leads for them when it comes to negotiating with the white house over what is due over the debt limit including raising the debt ceiling in 2024 while reducing the spending level two the 2022 level and producing future spending growth to 1% annually. another feature it wld cover the unspent money -- he would recover -- it would recover the unspent money from covid. and the federal a and it would block student debt cancellation and repeal green energy programs. how many of those are in the mix with a final deal comes down, who knows?

that is a starting point for republicans when they were meeting with the right house initially. -- white house initially. teams for both initially started to discuss this and that is part of the process as they discuss this resolving the debt ceiling issue. independent caller, california. hello. caller: hello. thank you for taking my call. my stance on this -- i think you should invoke the 14th amendment and not negotiate. it is like blackmail. they cannot negotiate on this too -- the duty in the constitution as the president to make sure we do not default on the debt. it is crazy the harms that's going to be done and how

republicans are using this and holding it hostage and blackmail for it. he should go in and do his duty as the president and some working on this. host: as far as the negotiating process president biden has a meeting with republicans on something why not continue on that versus the 14th amendment? caller: well because now they are changing it back. [indiscernible] there was something that he posted on twitter saying that unless you get everything including the kitchen sink, that default on the debt, do not negotiate unless you get everything including the kitchen sink. so they are not going to budge on it. there going to listen to trump and it will probably work out with him they figure that the economy would change and they

figure out would be bad for biden in 2020 or. what it was for them is that the -- 2024. but what it is with the economy the rich get richer and make the regular people have a harder time. and it works out for them being -- what their motive is is to turn it into a -- host: ok i got your point with lori from california. one of the cruise was asked about the legal background and underpinning of invoking the 14th amendment and resolving the issue here is senator cruz's comment. >> i think it is legally frivolous. barack obama said you cannot do this under the constitution and the terms of the constitution. that is a provision that was put in lace to say we will pay our civil war debt and it refers to

the civil or we just fall and paying it off. by the way, trying's position does not hold water either. joe biden can't ensure we default on the debt. he has ample authority to do that and right now by saying we have the interest -- we will pay the interest on the debt. what they want to do is pay the $6 trillion in other government spending. there is nothing in the 14th amendment that would give them power to do that. once they run out of money, they have to pay what congress has appropriated. and what has happened, the position of the democrats for two months is that they would not talk at all, and now the position is they would not cut any government spending reasonably. it is a responsible. what we are doing to the next generations, to give you an order of magnitude, and 2017, total government spending was about 4 trillion dollars. tax revenue was about three

trillion dollars so we had about a $700 billion deficit. fast-forward to today -- $7 trillion deficit. fast-forward to today we have nearly doubled government spending since 2017. tax revenues have gone from three point $3 trillion up to $5 trillion so we are taking in more taxes but they cannot keep up with the democrat while the spending binge. host: senator cruz from the sunday show yesterday. and one is saying raise the debt ceiling like it has been done in the past instead of having to do this every year. we are the only government in the world that does this. dan clark it is time to control spending and they expect too much. and thomas green to the point that the president has said before and president cruz, that the president should enact full

14th amendment should congress not reaching deal. can winters with his thoughts on resolving this issue. those are some of the thoughts on facebook. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. or you compose on twitter this morning. this is from eric in california, democrat. the best way to reach a deal in this matter, what do you think? >> i'm thinking in this concept. good morning america. i would put in this question how is the artificial controlling the real people. i refer to the artificial people as a corporation. a corporation is an artificial person created by man. how are they controlling the real people? the debt that ted cruz was just talking about was created by the donald trump presidency. the artificial people are now trying to put work requirement

on the real people? come on here, that is called slavery. listen to what is being said here. artificial operations that hated this deal now they are putting work requirements on their jill. the artificial company of america -- the requirements on the real people. artificial company is trying to control the cooperation. host: ok you said that many times how do you resolve this issue do you think? caller: we will do a double solution. we will take the debt that has already acquired and we will separate that. people over 50 will pay the debt off and the generation that is below 50, president biden can use the 14th amendment and start a new budget. the double budget solution. host: let's hear from ronnie and florida republican line. caller: how are you doing? host: fine, go ahead. caller: i just got to say that i think washington journal covers

my whole cable bill. that is how much i respect you guys. i like everybody and i like democrat and review -- republican and independent. this is what i say not enough has been said about -- to discredit democratic party and what they did to donald trump. how many democrats believe that donald trump was a russian spy? it is absurd. i hear from these people. host: get your point i appreciate your call but as far as the debt ceiling issue what is the best way to resolve this do you think? hello? caller: hello. host: go ahead what is the best way to resolve these issues? caller: mccarthy will not fund the irs that biden wants to target conservatives with. that is the stalemate the right there.

host: ok. ron in florida. calling in with the thought on how to resolve these issues on the debt ceiling. you can bring your own ideas and makes in we have several when it comes to resolving the washington post profile. resident -- mccarthy when it comes to negotiating with gary gray's republican of louisiana. they write about him and in part they say who the issuing hobo who this that lawmakers can be made -- issue that is being addressed on lawmakers, they saved many republicans have paid this individual little mind but those who know him best including current and former staff they say they want graves on the policy. and he has come in over prepare. he is always the workforce on policy.

he knows policy chapter and verse. that's just one of the profiles of those working in the background when it comes to resolve on the debt ceiling. the president and house speaker mccarthy have a meeting today to face -- face-to-face to talk about these issues and come up with a result. in new york, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing. independent, democrat, conservative, i call on all three. being in new york, we have a line of republicans. but i will give an example of what is going on. as far as what they are doing, they are pushing out the money as fast as they can to school districts in terms of foundation data. they are spending -- it has nothing to do with covid. just expanding and creating programs -- and when the money

runs out, the top stays on the hook for that. there was a big audit last sunday about that. that covers the covid honey. they do not want the money to go back. and the rino republicans want to point out that they go along with the special interests. as far as new york state goes with attica, in 2019, new york state had a 6.3 billion dollars deficit. and 4.1 billion dollars of that was for medicaid. they put a commission together to reduce this medicaid role without -- able-bodied working people to get them off the roll. they are very hypocritical when they talk about medicaid recipients. new york and missouri in 2019 right before the manda bay -- host: on the state level, how do you bring that to the debate that is going on in washington. caller: i'm going to get to

that. so the two things that you have to realize with that. so one more thing. -- bowman and biden and others had a meeting a few weeks ago and they talked about the meeting to pay off bills. and they hold the federal government under medicaid and unemployment. know how you spend -- send money to a state wen yu of the state money. but going back to the medicaid with the word department. in new york city, requiring the said of tatian worker. i see the work experience program and he will show up for that and take civil service exam and get back into the workforce because they are wired to show this in order -- required to get this in order to show that -- to get their benefits. and so they took the work requirements. they are still there had been a to the work requirement away that is when homelessness increased in new york city because people came here from

everywhere. you are in an address to create benefits by san francisco. host: ok that is bill. let's hear from tom in ohio the democrat line. finding ways to resolve the debt ceiling issue. go ahead. caller: good morning. i think it is a shame that it comes to this. i bargained paid into social security from age 14 up to 77. i think i am entitled to my social security and everything was fine until we started putting in the general fund and then our great senator mcconnell says we put in iou in fort knox. it would be hard with explosive diarrhea -- host: ok so the issue of resolving the debt ceiling. what is the best way to reach the deal? caller: the best way to reach the deal is eliminate over half of the united -- pay politicians

because they are all crooks. they line their pockets from the lobbyists. until that e we will have nothing butn a broken government. ds host: that is tom in ohio. -- until that ends we have nothing but broken government . host: that is tom in ohio. -- dave starts his morning looking at the dashboard tracking the critical operations of the largest payment system in the world. more than $6 trillion flows out of treasury every year and $5 trillion flows in from the collection of fees. it is his job to make sure that the transaction goes quickly. and the dashboard shows the employees under his purview helping him keep track of all of it. green where the bunches are

normal, yellow issues are emerging, red from these bids immediate attention. those in immediate attention is higher today. -- there trying to figure out how the united states can handle the process of running out of money making him a pivotal player in the standoff in washington. more from the profile of what he does when it comes to the issue that is bill from the washington post. if you want to see it online. let's hear from harry in georgia and. -- georgia independent. caller: thank you for my chance. what i would say first the bill republicans have passed in the house to raise the debt ceiling amounts to repeal of everything that joe biden, nancy pelosi, and chuck schumer achieved in the first two years of bidens

administration; pass infrastructure into the future. for the children and grandchildren. these are investments they are not spending. number two, we find ourselves in a position geopolitically that we are in a similar situation that franklin roosevelt was in 1939. we are basically at this time. we are given money to fend off russia and ukraine. meanwhile, we have china to worry about. we've got to be able to spend the money to increase our formidable forces in the pacific. these are investments. again, now, we do have a discharge petition waiting in the wings. waiting to go. the only thing they think -- the only reason they think they cannot use that is because the

republicans and the senate said they will hold tight with the republicans in the house. these guys have investment in the stock market so they do not want to their stock market investment tank. i think the republicans will give when it comes to trying to get the discharge position -- petition going. if you also have to pay attention to the 14th amendment. you may not use it this time but you have to get it ready for next time. host: that is larry in georgia talking about this position being worked on in the house. house democrats and it was senator holland maryland democratic senator talking yesterday about the issues in reference to a plan b so choose the when it comes to be -- so to speak when it comes to this. here is some of that from yesterday. >> i'm extremely worried about where we are. i think we need to move to plan

b. which is what is causing this -- called the discharge position in the house where you have republicans, we only need five, were together with all due 13 democrats. to put together the proposal that is about 30 republicans talking recently in may. and it has a number of elements including cuts. in the number of other ingredients. it seems to me that we will have to move in that direction very soon. >> the 14th amendment that the president talked about is that something that you would consider? >> let me just say that plan a needs to be the focus for the next 48 hours. plan b whiskeys -- which is a reasonable -- which is a reasonable pozo. we could have a discharge position and we could get a majority in the house for a reasonable pozo to permit -- prevent default. plan c would be 14th amendment.

my view was that the president should use all legal options out there. i think those are his legal options but it is not the preferred option. host: that is from the show yesterday and we continue on the call on the best way to resolve the debt ceiling. if you want to call in you can call at democrats (202) 748-8000 , republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. the house is in session this week and the senate is out. speaker mccarthy says that he has to have the debate to try to resolve the debt ceiling issue. the white house also has a new interest in the 2024 race with senator tim scott speak -- seincandidacy today. you can see that coming from north charleston in the home state of south carolina you will speak at 11:00 y c see it on c-span or our app c-span now, or you can watch on our website at c-span.org.

hear from andy in kentucky the republican line. good morning you're. next. good morning my name is andy and i'm from kentucky. we need to solve the spending and then we need caller: to cut taxes. caller:>> if you cut taxes from top to bottom that would help tremendously read the board with ukraine my heart goes out to those people, but i think it is time we start putting you in -- letting ukraine defend themselves and everything. we have helped them tremendously, but it comes a time where you have to kind of back off and let them stand on their own two feet. we need to stop going down this path of the new green deal with the electric vehicles because there just going to put us more in debt and everything. we need to get back to coal,

oil, and the natural resources we have here in america so we can be independent instead of depending on these foreign countries. i tell you this administration right now, is destroying our country. when mr. trump was in office the united states was doing good and now we are in trouble. we need to get back to being independent in the united states. host: alright you made those points. danny in kentucky going back to ukraine it was that the president announced a $375 million additional aid package to ukraine is headed to the country to support the effort. this is the caller from michigan , democrat mine. caller: yet the caller from georgia he explained coherently that these are investments not spending. this is how you add value to the country.

i just am appalled by your help all the seas of skewing so far to the right on the issue you and the other host on c-span have fallen off of the truck with your five to the right on this. host: i do not understand that assertion but if you want to do it you can go ahead. caller: my assertion? i mean after all the democratic callers you play ted cruz or some other extremist to would lie through his teeth. host: we started with president biden and we also ran a democrat clipped as well. that is this hour so for and so it has been to on each side. caller: it was not too on each side you played mccarthy in there as well. ok so is from and you know you guys are doing an extremely poor

job of explaining what the future investments are and how they add value to this rather use skew to the extreme. you are inflaming people. you have been running this topic solid for the last week it seems like. host: all right i will stop you there you made a couple assertions. i will stop you there because only as a network devoted to the operation of capitol hill and washington overall we understand that a lot of things are going on in the role and those that watch the network and bows that come -- particularly when it comes to the nation's physical and argument over the debt ceiling that is what we will focus on amongst other things that we focus on. thank you for the call. let's hear from mariam in new jersey independent line. caller: hello. host: you were on go ahead. caller: ok.

that took me back a little bit. this guy from georgia. i really agree with a lot of what he said. the only thing that i would like to add is that the last time we were in the situation was 2011. do you know who was the president at that time? host: i do but for the rest of us why don't you educate us. caller: president obama. a democrat. every time a credit is in office and forever republicans are in the situation they are in, it is a fight. it is a fight. every time. host: what is it mean for this time around as far as reaching a result of the deal, what do you

think? caller: i'm really not sure because mccarthy has no -- she really has no backbone to make a decision -- he really has no backbone to make a decision. he has allowed his constituents, not his constituents but his fellow republicans to take over his position. whatever they agree on, which is, i am sorry i have gotten frustrated from the last caller. host: that's ok. caller: it -- we are in a position right now i being held to the republican win. host: both go to joel in maryland. republican. hello. caller: hello. lighting really needs to make some concessions from the defense budget for example. in return for balance.

when he needs to do is ask for a remission of some of the trump tax cuts. that should be part of the political debate right now. thank you. host: as far as the pentagon why do you think there should be cuts they? -- cuts there. caller: i think things can be taken away correctly. that should be part of the discussion but it needs to be in balance. part of the balance should be the revision of the tax cut for the rich done through mr. trump early in his administration. host: ok that is joel in maryland. if you go to politico and a recent piece they had on line on the 16th of this month that is the headline saying that democrats are letting a new congressional budget office deficit of a $300 trillion deficit with -- the cut in the

fight. they say white house from -- individuals have the most up-to-date estimate of what kind of extension of the tax cuts was made from 2024 through 2033 and it came in $500 billion higher than the previous estimate. doom rats use the figures on the date that was tuesday. and they -- across-the-board needs spending cuts. ryan is in illinois. hello. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say on the debt ceiling, if president biden case of republican demand been he will logically be caving into mr. donald trump to demand same republicans do not give an inch on the debt ceiling negotiations.

the question arises who is a resident now biden or trump? it is the latter there is no buy-in -- no reason biden should seek reelection. and this will do terrible damage to the majority of the people that voted for him in the first place. host: what do you mean by taking in? caller: backing off on his promises that he made earlier that he would deal with the debt ceiling issue if you must buy y replacing the taxes on the wealthiest of that -- placing taxes on the wealthiest of the country our billionaires i guess there are 600 of them and 55 corporations who pay more than their fair share of taxes. host: do you mean that by the

irs hiring more people for collection services? caller: no, this is what i heard president biden say that he would deal with this by not hurting those who need help. most of this country was by dealing with it by raising taxes on billionaires and the upper 1% and 55 corporations who did not pay their fair share of taxes. he said this. host: independent line in ohio. william joins us next found the best way to reach a debt ceiling deal. hello. caller: good morning and thank you for the work that you do. i do have one insight that i have seen that makes the most sense to me. if i could share that. every member of congress has millions of dollars invested in

the stock market, every member. every donor, for those have millions invested in stock markets. if they do not raise the debt limit, the stock market is going to crash. do you really think that anybody -- does anybody really think this will not raise the debt limit? that seems silly to me. host: you basically think some site -- some type of resolve will happen because of the issue you stated with the stock market? caller: absolutely it is silly to think that they will not raise the debt limit. but anyway if i could debate more about how they are spending. host: go ahead. caller: they want to raise -- i propose raising military spending to 1% or whatever money they can account for. if it can account for the money

that they spend we will raise it that much, thank you for your time. host: ok sorry about that this is anthony in oklahoma republican line. good morning. caller: howdy. on the debt ceiling, i think that republicans are making a mistake for holding the country as hostage. they should create a committee to work out the debt problem. host: why not the list of issues that they has previously house. ? why not stick to those things especially when it comes to spending? caller: the cuts that they are making is in the wrong area. we are talking about health care, education, military, they are talking about specialist people like abortion.i mean

, they could put a committee to hammer out the details and put it before their party and then congress could be voted on at a could be sent to the president. host: this is chuck in florida. democrat. you good morning you are on. caller: good morning everybody. i have a perfect deal for republicans deeming as how they want a cut. they need to cut all corporate welfare out. then we can look at the budget and boost the tax cuts -- those whom could be gone and then we can go ahead and show how much the republicans will love this country and we will cut all of the pay to the dim that -- the republicans in d.c..

they cannot refuse that after all. have a good day. host: gary joins us from north carolina. independent. hello. caller: i want to start off by saying you guys are leaning so far on the right that i want to shut down on hearing it. i want to share something, what people are saying that we get the risk to finally pay their taxes or that that will straighten things out, $1 trillion is 1000 billion dollars. and we owe $30 trillion. 1000 billion dollars is $1 trillion. and bezos is were $270 million. i think. and elon musk is worth $77 billion. and trump with all of his money 's worth $8 billion.

so we are talking, if you took all of their money, not just tax risk, if you had everything they had it would not even scratch have a trillion dollars. -- half $1 trillion. host: what is that have to go with the reaching of the debt ceiling decision. caller: it is a matter of how we are going to do it. we have to pay our bills. we cannot keep going forward spending this way. people seem to do a better job on themselves. they have their own drive and motivation and they depend on the stock market to pay their 401(k). he lived people alone -- if you let the people alone they are both right. host: let's hear from florida democrat line. hello. caller: yes sir, i did not hear anything about the report they had last night. it is pretty simple

black-and-white to me of where the money is going. i think we have the wrong people trying to make the wrong decisions trying to make it range -- in a change in the country. host: with the debt ceiling overall what is the best way to make a deal, do you think? caller: it is driving at by greed and power. greed and power is involved in it whether it is prescription drugs, the border, whatever the topic is. there are people making money off of it. host: john is on our independent line, he is from oregon. caller: hello, my solution before i get to that, i have a brief premise here. i believe that -- to somebody

who has used their credit card to buy food, the person eats the food and then when the credit card bill comes in, he tries to make demands, saying i'm not going to pay this bill unless my spouse does. it makes no sense. so my suggestion is that the people give back the power -- get back their power from the people in congress. these people who -- suck every member of congress. if the people of the united states can do this just one

time, congress will -- future congress will do its job. host: susan in west palm beach, florida. republican line. hello. caller: hello. what i would like to say is that during the democrat administration of bill clinton, the federal budget was balanced. that is a fact. i am a republican, but i can acknowledge that. and the federal deficit was erased. that is a fact. when george w. bush came into power, he gave a huge tax break to the wealthiest people. and that started this problem of putting our budget into the tank again. i do not understand why the people from my party, and i have

been a republican from the age of 21 and i am now 78. i believe in what the republicans originally believed in, conservatism, but the republicans of these days are not conservative. they are right wing radicals. it is undeniable that the democratic administration of bill clinton balanced the budget and erased the federal deficit. host: what does that mean for the debates today for the debt ceiling? caller: it means this chasing your tail, always saying the revenue does not make any difference, you've got to stop this spending, it does not make any sense. host: republicans called for the segment, thank you for all who participated in this hour. because of the current deb

on capitol hill and the white house, that is going to be a large part of the discussion. natalie andrews from the wall street journal joins next. not only to talk about what is currently at stake to talk about other things. she gives us the week ahead in washington, the response of the federal budgets my a mcginnis, it is about spending and revenue issues when it comes to the debt ceiling. all those things coming up on washington journal. ♪ >> listening to programs on c-span through c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio, and listen to in washington journal at 7:00 a.m. eastern, and hear about events

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unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> c-span campaign 24 coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events. campaign 2024 on the c-span network. c-span now, our free mobile video app, or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: natalie andrews joining us, serving as a congressional reporter with the wall street

journal, also tracking the debate over the debt ceiling. guest: thanks for having me. host: we know the person of the forefront of the discussions is speaker mccarthy, talk about the negotiations. guest: i have been talking to republicans all weekend, they are getting briefed to see if anything the white house is offering a some think they would be on board with and they have been shredded. dusty johnson, cochair of the main street publican caucus, which is your mainstream republicans, he wants to see spending cuts as well. they were frustrated, the white house offer over the weekend increased the spending for next year instead of decreasing it. chip roy, caucus members are known for being more hard line spending. they are frustrated and they issued a statement on friday, saying they would like to see what house republicans pass in

april. house republicans are watching closely. kevin burke -- kevin mccarthy does not want to lose a lot of republicans a negotiation because this is his team and he wants to bring them over the finish line. negotiations will probably go down to how many he is willing to cut loose. host: factor in the amount of days left until the date of june 1. what happens in the 10 days or so we will see? guest: it's going to be tight. house republicans in the deal in january when kevin mccarthy was becoming speaker, he scored an open process where they want to bring amendment to the floor. they have a 72 hour rule for legislation. it means if they are going to pass something this week, they needed on the floor by tuesday, tomorrow. which is rapidly approaching. that does not begin to outline

the senate -- if they come back tuesday, they have two days to pass something which is a hard lift in the senate. it is going to be intense. 10 days is hard to get anything to congress. it is hard with the three-day weekend. we could see recesses, they could bring congress back. it will be interesting. host: what is they message from leadership about the meeting taking place today? guest: guest: we expected in the afternoon and it is to get things back on track. negotiators treated paper over the weekend and discussed. what they were far apart and if they are going to cut a deal, we'll have to get down to brass tacks. if we're talking topline spending numbers, it is unknown if they have worked out things like work requirements or

permitting, things could get sticky. host: we will invite callers, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans and (202) 748-8002 four independents. natalie andrews covers this and you can text your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. the stickiest sticking point, what is it? guest: the top line number. house republicans want to see cut spending. they want to set the topline number for spending for the next fiscal year. which would start in october. so the white house came back with an offer that increased spending, 30 billion dollars, a lot of money but in the grand scheme of the spending bills,

which are usually more than $1 trillion, it is $30 billion. house republicans want to cut spending. they have looked at fiscal 22 levels, which would be a year and a half ago. they are apart part on that number. they've got to come together on that before they get down to where the money is being spent. host: it is amazing they are still at this level, considering the number of days that have expired. guest: exactly. and house publicans will say it we have been trying to get this set since february, biden and mccarthy met in early february and they passed a bill in april. then the white house started moving and things like that. the white house is very focused on saying no negotiations for several months. host: if there is a rollback of spending, are all areas treated equally? does the fence apartment c cuts and other areas where they do not? where will lines be drawn? guest: that is sticky.

republicans don't want to cut veteran spending or defense. they want to increase defense. the white house is opposed and says where money will be taken will hurt things like education, early childhood education or cancer research, the discretionary spending that gets sped out -- spread out in funds like that. which are domestic programs. they don't want to see the funding cut there. host: we have heard from democrats over the morning, the sunday show, backing the president on maybe using this 14th amendment. is this a widespread thought or a final break glass situation? guest: the 14th amendment, which is interesting to go back and look at, a lot of people associated with the civil war and we suddenly pull back a 200

year loophole in the archives. but it seems like a rake glass emergency measure and would be difficult to execute, to continue doing it. the amendment basically says the debt of the u.s. is guaranteed. the idea that these progressive democrats are pushing biden to say i have the power under the 14th and i meant to act unilaterally. but it would see court challenges and probably be stopped or stayed by the court and as janet yellen has said, there is not a lot of time. host: she keeps saying this. that number does not resonate, is that the case? guest: it is starting to. her comments yesterday were clear. she said that june 1 date is there because by june 15 the u.s. will be having a hard time paying its bills.

that seemed clear and specific. some lawmakers were taken aback because they expected a mid july date. when she came out with june 1, there was shock on the hill. host: natalie andrews joining us, she reports on congress for the wall street journal. from memphis, tennessee, betty on the democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: what people don't seem to understand, people are living paycheck-to-paycheck. if this debt bill does not get resolved, people are going to lose out. people use this money to pay their bills every month. we don't have time to -- people need to sit back and listen. biden needs to step up and take care of his country instead of taking care of other people's

country. host: thank you. guest: it is unclear how the u.s. would slow down paying the debt. obviously social security payments are a huge portion of what the u.s. is obligated to pay. it is unclear. also military salaries. people after dealing with inflation for several months, we looking at paycheck-to-paycheck. people are started to look -- watch this closely because while the treasury can move around money like we all do and it is a tight month, it gets tricky when the coffers are low. host: to clarify, it is not cuts to the program. it is prioritization of how they will be paid. guest: the debt ceiling is not a government shutdown.

but it is as though the treasury has run out of money and they won't be able to make certain payments. janet yellen has some power to decide. she has been executing this power since january. deciding how to pay, what to prioritize, that kind of element that we do with household budgets. when you get a big bill and you have to pay part of it, things like that. social security and government paychecks for federal workers, it is not clear how long they will be able to continue paying that if they chose to prioritize social security over debt payments. it starts getting tricky after the deadline. host: krista joins us from michigan. thanks for calling. this is -- actually, kyle from buffalo. caller: good morning, c-span. last segment, there were callers

that talked about the trillion dollars that we all do show and one lady talked about the balanced-budget the clinton era dues. one was the last time we had a balanced-budget? do you know that, and why can't we get our military spending under 60%? last question, is the military funding part of the ukraine support that we send? we spend a lot of money on military services. guest: for the balanced-budget, i don't have that trivia offhand. but i can talk about the military funding and what has gone to ukraine. the military -- the defense budget is included in this. as they look for that top line number. it is usually divided into

defense, nondefense and what they call discretionary -- nondefense discretionary, which includes veteran funding and things like that. with ukraine, they have been adding extra what they call supplemental. parabens of a mental bills focus on the pandemic and recently, ukraine. i think it will be hard for lawmakers to get a ukraine supplemental into any bill in september. ukraine is probably going to ask for it. but i think the republicans -- the dynamic of a republican majority makes it difficult. evan mccarthy recently pledged support for ukraine. it is unclear how that will look. there is ukraine money tied into the foreign aid the u.s. gives out to various countries. that is part of the topline spending number they keep talking about. host: before we go too far, some other things in washington. the house republicans taking a look at fentanyl in a bill that

they say will help reduce that. can you give us the broad-based approach of what they are proposing? guest: they made fentanyl a huge push as they talk about the border security, addressing addiction, things like that. this is one of several bills that they have lined up to address a crisis across the country, that is killing people. every lawmaker can talk about how folks have dealt with drug overdoses in their districts. host: the appropriations committee will meet as well, to talk about budgeting issues. give us what to expect as far as that process. guest: it has been interesting in the debt ceiling talks. the appropriators are trying to meet to get appropriations bills passed and the appropriators the topline number -- need the topline number to draw details, just like with a household budget. they are starting to meet.

one notable element is that with house republicans in charge, they are looking at the topline numbers they cite, which are from fiscal 2022. they are trying to fill in the spaces there while not cutting veteran spending, while not cutting defense spending, increasing defense spending is what they would like. it will be interesting to see how they start, what that would look like. host: chris in michigan, independent line. caller: good morning, how are you? host: thank you, you are on with our guest. caller: real quick, it is not necessarily go with what we are facing right now. but something that comes in the back of my mind, when they are spending money or approving a bill that is going to cost $2 trillion or whatever it may be, why don't they take and

implement that they have to approve the debt ceiling -- the amount in the debt ceiling at that time? it is fresh in their minds, we are spending $2 trillion. we've got to approve this now instead of waiting nine or 10 months down the road. then we are faced with the consequences now. if it is fresh on their mind at the time, they can sit back and think, we are spending this credit card money, we are we going to get the money? that is my thought. thank you. guest: how do you feel about running for congress? [laughter] it is a good point. approving the spending in november it was a $1.5 trillion bill and janet yellen almost immediately in january said this is going to affect the debt ceiling and this was for spending for the next fiscal year. something that congress had to do. now we are in this so-called

crisis because we are against the deadline. the debt ceiling was implemented as kind of a gap stop -- not a gap stop measure, but as a way for congress to look at how it money. so we get into these pickles every so often when they decide this is a big deal. host: what is the thinking about when the next debt limit would take place? guest: they pass it in the likely period would be march 2024. which they are excited about because even congressional republicans don't want a debt ceiling fight when they are trying to run primary elections, both for the presidential but also their own primary elections would be happening for a lot of them. i know that biden would like to see it not go out until 2025. some republicans make be on for that. they don't want to deal with us again. the more conservative

republicans say they only do that if they are guaranteed spending cuts. host: what is the harm if the debt ceiling is raised and the debt is paid without including the demanded cuts? guest: the problem is it would not get through congress right now. because kevin mccarthy controls what comes to the floor in the house. her ways of going around him. house democrats last week introduced the discharge petition. it is a way to maneuver around leadership. if you can get a majority of lawmakers to sign on to the petition, can bring legislation to the floor. they have almost all of the democrats they need to sign the petition, and they need five republicans to cross party lines and force the vote. it will be hard. because of the different timing rules that are instituted in discharge positions, desk petitions, they would miss the deadline. host: you said almost all of the

democrats. white? guest: we have three that have not quite signed. i know ed case would wait, and jared golden. they are democrats who typically wait. these are formerly known as blue dogs who are more conservative and maybe wanted to see what was happening before they signed. host: sandra in waynesboro, virginia. democrats line. caller: i would like to offer a tidbit and a little history if i may. number one, and a lot of people call in and say the top 10% already pay 40% of the taxes. i googled and ask how much of our country's wealth is the top 10% hold, and google responded the top 10% holds over 60% of the wealth. so i felt like why not ask them to pay 50% of the taxes if they hold over six he percent of the

wealth? that would still give them 10% to play with, to leave eight nest egg for their children. so why can we not go forward on the wealthy needing to pay more taxes, they have more money in their pocket. like uncle joe holds all of the family wealth and you hold none of it, so why shouldn't he pay for the funeral for my mom who just died? that is one thought. the other is from thomas jefferson. the original wording was the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property was guaranteed to all americans. they changed it to happiness. i don't know why. i could guess. but i think if you were held in such bondage that your job allows you know way to save up a nest egg, to even buy a car you can keep in good shape, much less a house that you can pay a mortgage on, that is virtual slavery. for the sneer rich people in

congress to continue to provide a scheme that allows the very wealthy to get wealthier while they hope to become part of the very wealthy is criminal. host: thanks. guest: one point the biden administration would like to use is to raise taxes on people making more than $400,000 of -- a year in some aspect. that is what he proposed, various tax increases to address the budget. for house republicans that is a hard know. they promised not to raise taxes on anyone. i had offended -- a friend ask the same question, why don't they raise them a little to try to address the deficit? they said members of congress would like to get reelected. and so-and-so raised taxes -- it is not great for them. they made the promise they will

not raise taxes and that is what they're trying to do, all of this, addressing the deficit through spending cuts. host: how does president biden deal with the tax cuts from the trump initiation? guest: some of them are set to expire. some of the tax cuts -- there are various tax cuts that will, in the next few years and that congress will have to address them. host: from our republican line, jerry in virginia. guest: good morning. i don't believe we will be up against our debt limit if we were not supporting 10 million illegal immigrants. i wish someone would tell us how much money they are spending supporting these illegal immigrants. host: i don't have that number

off my head. i can tell you that part of addressing immigration is part of the topline numbers congress is spending. we know that house republicans would love to have their immigration bill they passed recently be included in any spending talks. but that is very partisan and i would expect it is a nonstarter for the biden administration. host: let me ask about things unrelated. george santos being referred to the ethics committee. what does his day look like? guest: day-to-day, being chased by reporters everywhere he goes. he has lost his command occasions director. she quit last week. in a somewhat public fashion. the ethics committee traditionally acts very slowly but kevin mccarthy has asked them to act fast. in addressing what his possible

punishment may be. it is interesting because he has admitted to lying to voters who elected him and admitted that the biography was fairly false. his day-to-day life, he does not have committee positions. he comes to vote most of the time and finds himself often trailed by reporters. it is not known if he has a lot of friends on the house. host: what was the thinking around having him on the ethics committee rather than being expelled from congress? guest: they say he is owed do process. they want to put them through and investigations of the ethics committee can decide if he should be punished or censured. the reason democrats don't like it is because the ethics committee is typically slow and are made up of your peers. they are very resistant to

actually punish members of congress. host: i want to ask about senator dianne feinstein. but first i want to -- somebody asked about was rhode island democrat jack, asked about the return and giving his thoughts. i want to play this. >> i think senator feinstein has performed remarkably in her career. at this point she has medical issues and has acknowledged them. she still is able to summon the energy and the concentration to come to vote. she has continued to work. she deserves the opportunity to make a decision. if i had the opportunity to serve with strom thurmond, he was 100 when he retired. some people back then were saying he should go. but not with the same kind of intensity today. this is something senator feinstein should consider and make a decision.

host: one perspective among democrats in the senate. one of the thinking? -- what are they thinking? guest: it has been tough. she was gone for several months, she returned and does not look 100%. there were questions about her ability to do her job even before she became ill. she turned down senior roles and the senate is all about seniority so they are not all young. especially if you are a chairman. she was supposed to be the pro-trump or -- pretty important -- pro-tempore when kamala harris was in town. she turned that down. she could have been the first woman to share the judiciary committee and to turn it down. that is acknowledgment that she is maybe not up to the task. they said she is coming back but she may not vote 100%.

it is tough to see a senator from a large estate not necessarily be commanding the -- having the mental fortitude to ask questions, to participate in hearings and that kind of thing. host: has it cramped the ability for the senate to do its job? guest: when she was out, they were not quiet about saying it was tough to not a member. she issued a statement that said they could replace her and it needed a full senate vote and republicans said no. she is in this place where she is coming to the judiciary committee, she is voting and helping them get people that were tough to get out of committee out. she will participate in both on the floor to confirm judges which is a key focus of biden in these two years warehouse or publicans have the house. you are not going to get a lot of legislation through, so you push to get as many nominees through the senate as possible

while you have control. it is tough. she had this incredible career, and her few years in the senate is shaping her legacy into one where there are questions about her health. host: one more call from clyde in missouri. caller: good morning. a couple of points. feinstein and federman are both derelict and should be gone. and the liar they are trying to get rid of, he should feel right at home amongst such a collection of liars that we have. and the lady that called earlier from florida, she was stating things like fact that clinton had the bills all paid. since 1900, there is only been one president that actually paid down on the debt. that was eisenhower.

two years he paid down on the debt. other than that, it has never been paid. it was not paid in 1900. host: you had your statements. do you have a question? caller: a question for her. i don't know -- she could not answer -- host: i apologize. the status of your colleague, evan gershkovich, where do we stand? guest: a lot. he will head to detention this week. we are trying to do every thing we can to talk about him so thank you for that. he has a court date scheduled. it is not expected to be one where he will be released. it is expected to go to trial. it is important to talk about how he is unfairly and unreasonably detained. he was doing his job in russia and working very hard. he loved doing his job as we all

do. this element of journalism takes love and he loved being in russia, telling stories of the people. he was doing that and unfairly detained and captured by russian authorities. host: has a wall street journal been told by the president, white house or state department as to efforts of his release? guest: no. we know they are working on it. there is a public facing effort to get paul whelan out. and there are things behind the scenes happening as well. we are all thinking of evan. the wall street journal is a place where as a cover congress, i get emails from around the world, asking me to ask members of congress questions from my colleagues. i ask them questions. when i don't know something that has come up on the hill. you get to know your coworkers from all over the world and just the thought that his parents

don't have any way to contact him or talk to him on a regular basis breaks my heart. host: natalie andrews who reports on congress for the wall street journal. wsj.com if you want to see the work of her and her colleagues. next open form, call (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, independents (202) 748-8002. we will take those calls when washington journal continues. ♪ >> watch video on demand anytime online at c-span.org and try our points of interest feature, a timeline toothat uses markers to guide you to newsworthy and interesting highlights of our coverage. anytime online at c-span.org. ♪ ♪ >> be up-to-date in the latest

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download it for free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. ♪ ♪ >> visit c-spanshop.org, c-span's online store, and save during the father's day sale. save up to 20% on the latest collection of c-span apparel, home to core, bobbleheads, puzzles and more. there is on them for every c-span fan and every purchase helps to support nonprofit operations. during the c-span shop father's day sale, going on now at c-span shop.org ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: you can text us in this open forum, at (202) 748-8003. post on social seat -- social media sites as well. someone who will decide his blood will fade is delaware

senator tom carper. he is set to share his future today according to a media release. he is about to announce plans as his term ends. it was first elected to the senate in two thousand and served as the sole house representative as the governor and treasurer forgot -- double -- delaware. he would not be the only u.s. senator to make this decision, earlier this month, a maryland senator announced he will not seek reelection. one political fate to be determined and another is determined later today, senator tim scott announcing he will run for the presidency in 2024. you can see that at 11:00 on c-span, follow on our app at c-span now as he makes that announcement. open form first. wanda in chattanooga, tennessee, democrat line. your first. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i wanted to know something from the lady who is gone, but i'm going to make my statement. the lady who called from florida was speaking on the clinton's, changing the deficit. it is categorized with the fact that the people -- republicans are asking that they put restrictions on things they want -- but when they did that with the clinton's, it took a lot of people. with children like five years old. i am sure that saved a lot of money. my question for that lady was going to be, if they take no social security insurance for able-bodied people, would that help the deficit?

i know there are a lot of people getting funding from the government who said they are not well. but i can look at them and see that they are well. host: wanda in chattanooga. anita st. louis, independent line. >> thank you for taking my call. i watched fox news sunday yesterday and ted cruz was on. he said that 87,000 more irs agents is excessive. but if you check out the facts, there are -- and take 87,000 and divide it by 260 million, which is the number of people over 18, that turns out to be 300 -- three hundredths of 1%. i don't consider that to be excessive. crews constitute -- they

constantly use negative adjectives of democrats while accusing them of that. the democrats -- the republican saying let's not increase the debt, actually saying that they are going to defund the war in ukraine. in most americans are for the war in ukraine. so be careful of what they say. host: debbie in maryland, republican line. caller: hi. host: go ahead. caller: i have a couple of questions, maybe some to do with the debt ceiling. i am from maryland, and these kids have been getting food stamps. if you go to our grocery stores, you can buy them $.50 on the dollar. people are doing it. only people that are working in our grocery stores -- some of

them can't even stand. these kids just are not working anymore. something needs to be done. as far as the election, i have been on here a couple of times. but i live in maryland all of my life. my husband and i live in a house. we got the last election, biden and trump, i got five ballots from pa. everybody says there was no cheating or anything. you can't convince me there was not. trump did a wonderful job. whether you like what he said -- i do not like we said half the time. but he was out in the open. you knew everything that man was going to do. host: isaiah in missouri, democrat line. caller: i wanted to make a comment about the federal reserve. could you in the future have

somebody come on and tell the truth about the federal reserve? because the federal reserve is not part of this government. the program you had this morning talking about the debt, you remember, under president kennedy, all of the dollar bills that we had, it had a certificate on it. which meant that every one of the dollars they had during that time, -- it was to back it up. the money now -- there is nothing to back it up. when they talk about the debt, all they do is let's go print some paper. print some paper money, with nothing to back it up.

the federal reserve no. host: i would refer you and others interested in the federal reserve go to our website for the programs that we have done, including hearing from the federal reserve chairman himself. one thing happening yesterday, the g7, president announcing a multimillion dollar package to ukraine. and president zelenskyy, meeting with the president, offered thanks for that military aid package. a portion from yesterday. >> thank you for your leadership and your support and for this new package. we have strong relations with our people and here, all of the challenges, they go shoulder to shoulder and we are thankful to the american people, to your team for the support.

and i'm happy of the strong relations, mr. blinken, our foreign minister, all of you. they have really helped us. thank you. i remember your last -- and we spoke about very difficult decisions. with the training mission. we are very thankful. you give us a strong position. host: that is from yesterday. see the full event on our website at c-span.org. this is tom, republican line in maryland. hello. >> good morning. i was curious if there were any

luminary pulling -- preliminary pulling as to how the debt issue would impact the midterms. host: what do you think about the potential impact deco -- impact? caller: i think the responsibility lies on mccarthy and house republicans, but the debate has put the response billing on biden and the democrats. i don't know how it is going to impact voters in the next election. host: earl in north carolina, democrat line. caller: how you doing? host: find thank you. caller: i think when they meet today, mccarthy and the president, if they split down the middle, they could come to an agreement. it won't get what they want but they won't shut the country

down. and go on from there. and not worry about their careers. do what is right for the country. if mccarthy gets kicked out and the president does not win, they did right for the country. it will go down in history as doing right for the country. host: earl in north carolina. it technology news, the associated press reporting that the european union slept -- slapped meta with a privacy fine on monday, ordering it to stop transferring user data across the landtag by october. it is the biggest penalty since the eu strict data privacy regime took effect five years ago. passing the amazon fine in 2021 for data protection violations. meta previously warned that services for users in europe could be cut off and asked the court to put the decision on

hold. quote there is no disruption in europe -- they say it is justified and -- mezze -- the president of global affairs at meta and the chief legal officer said this in the joint statement. from randy in wisconsin, republican line. caller: good morning. have not talked to you for a long time. i've got an easy way to settle this. 10 days before the debt limit is due, all congressman, state people, including the president, their wages stop and there is no backpay when they come back on duty. i think that might hurry things up a little as far as getting things done. we might have to cut that money

going to all these foreign countries. billions of dollars that we are paying them just to be our friends. i wish we could cut that back a little. washington spends too much. the government cannot spend something they have not taken away from the public. let's get that down. host: randy in wisconsin. the washington times highlights more of the details of those security assistance package to ukraine that was announced yesterday. it includes 155 millimeter and 105 millimeters artillery, rounds for rocket systems, logistics support. despite a meeting with mr. zelenskyy on the sidelines and at the g7 meeting, they confirmed that the u.s. would join the effort to train them on fighter pilots including the

f-16 fighting falcon. in illinois, democrats, this is stephen. caller: good morning. several weeks ago, pbs had a program on sunday night about supreme court justice clarence thomas. the article stated that allegedly he does very little reading or studying, but relies on his wife jenny desha ginni thomas -- ginni thomas for information political and legal. the program went on to say that ginni thomas had been a member of the john burke society, following in her parents footsteps from the time she was reared in nebraska. i remember in 59 or 60, doing a research project for a speech in high school on the john burke society. it was not a very nice organization. but interestingly, one of the

tenets of the society at that time was that then sitting president dwight eisenhower was a communist agent. if you can believe that. so there you go. host: stephen, you should know the person behind that documentary, the filmmaker behind the pbs front month series was on this program recently to talk about the findings of what he found out during his look at justice thomas and his wife. you can see that interview on our website at c-span.org. it aired in the last couple of weeks and is available there if you want to check it out again. that website at c-span.org. as we told you earlier, a new entry into the presidential race, senator tim scott deciding he was going to enter the race, taking that announcement today. joining us to tell us more is from the state, a newspaper out

of south carolina, the state governor and politics reporter. thanks for your time. c-span.org -- guest: thanks for having me. host: tell us what we will expect. guest: it is one of the big drivers of the campaign officials, there is a map in a message from senators as he launches the campaign. host: from north charleston, there is the play he will launch the campaign. what is the significance? guest: this is his alma mater. it is also the area where he started his political career. he represented the south, and a statehouse for two years and then he went to congress, or presenting the low country in south carolina. host: you said the message today was of optimism.

why choose that as the theme and how do you hope to -- how does he hope to parlay it into policy issues? guest: partly it is how his story -- he was raised by a single mom who raised him and his brother. they were able to make it. he started his own business. -- it is the message -- that is where the message comes from. host: he formed an exploratory committee in april. tell us about what that will allow him to do going forward. guest: the exploratory committee allowed him to start raising money for this presidential election. he did run from reelection last

year and the senate. the race was not close. he has raised a lot of money -- the entity, $4 million and he was able to save $22 million from that campaign. that gives him an award going into the presidential race. -- the end of august. it will help them increase his name id in those states. host: yesterday, is under expresses report for -- support for senator scott. are there others? guest: state lawmakers are jumping on board. in those local state lawmakers are going to be endorsing the

community, propping up senator scott. because he is in this race with another south carolinian former governor, nikki haley, you have south carolina makers -- lawmakers who are conflicted. it will be interesting to see how it plays out. host: i suppose we will have to figure out a way to separate or be distinct from nikki haley. guest: yeah. they have an interesting history. governor haley appointed him to his senate seat. they are tied to one another. they even served on a term together in the state house. host: when it comes to the challenges he may face as he makes this run, looking at his political history, what would you say those are? guest: he is the only black republican in the u.s. senate.

black voters traditionally have voted democratic. they are not necessarily monolithic, but most lack voters will identify with the democratic party. but will he be able to bring them into the republican party? host: where's he had annexed? guest: he has iowa and new hampshire later this week. and he's coming back to south carolina at the end of this week. south carolina being an early primary state. host: as a political reporter, what are you looking at going forward as you keep your eye on him in his campaign to cope -- his campaign? guest: i want to see how it republican -- resonates with people. the republicans like the combative persons, like donald trump. they are still ahead in the

primary purling. -- polling. we'll see how much he is able to . host: joseph bustos, see his work at thestate.com. thank you for giving us your time today. guest: thanks for having me. host: 11:00 is when the announcement is supposed to take place. you can see that on c-span follow along on our mobile app at c-span now and follow along at our website at c-span.org. we continue with open form calls. this is joseph in florida, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you for having made. i will give my response. what i would do right now with the debt situation, i would not raise the debt ceiling until in $5 trillion balance of the

budget is agreed upon. that is how i would do it. i am running as an independent for the u.s. house in 2024. that is what i would do if i was there. i would refinance the debt with north dakota state bank. they're the only bank that they can do this. in trillion dollar increments. that would be paid off in 15 years. the interest payment will disappear. the $800 billion we will be not be paying and it will be $15 million service fees. then how we raise a surplus, and my generation, i was born in 1984, that will change. in a program will happen. an immigration policy will get a robust legal immigration fan -- plan into the government. we have multiple ways to approach this. but the balanced, incremental budget, a zero advantage budget

works by piece milling the entire budget. host: dennis in indiana, republican mine. -- line. caller: i would like to address the wasteful spending we have going on and all of the money that has been wasted, totally wasted. when all of these bills there were all jammed together, they need to separate this stuff and have it at the house. the pentagon, they we need to get on top of all of this stuff. somebody needs to be held accountable for this wasteful spinning that has been going on ever since bush days back in the iraqi war that was charged in the $500 for the $.30 bolt and

all the gas that bush was putting on, charging $25, $30 a gallon for gas. it is wasteful spending that has been going on ever since bush, obama, -- host: ok. got your point. we will hear from jules in missouri, democrats line. caller: good morning, pedro. a couple of things i would like to get straight, i see people going down these strange paths. the first thing i would like to say is from the kitchen table to the largest corporations, those are called micro economies. our federal economy is an aggregate. it is a total of all of the economies. it is a micro economy. you cannot use the same rules to solve a problem that is not there.

that is all i have got to say. host: that is jewels in missouri. let's hear from the budget chairman in the house on the sunday show about the beds budget and if it could fit into discussions moving forward when it comes to the debt ceiling. [video clip] >> this proposal would keep nondefense and defense discussion every spending flat from 2023 to 2024. the republicans want two increase defense spending despite $45 billion more than president biden had proposed last time. >> well, let's give some context to the discretionary budget. our federal government's 40% bigger today than it was going into covid. secondly, the president with the lead negotiator in 2011 for a 10 year spending cap deal and he

was doing that in the context of the debt ceiling negotiation. this is not unprecedented. even the president's own budget, if you look at his 10 year budget resolution proposal he introduced about a month ago, he has $2.7 trillion in discretionary cuts. if you annualize that, that is over $200 billion a year. we are talking about going back to $130 billion. that is what we were spending as a nation discretionary six months ago. host: that is from the sunday shows yesterday. continue on as we take this open forum. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 four independents. text us at (202) 748-8003. the new york times today travel advisory being placed by the naacp saying the advisory does not explicitly recommend against

travel to florida but urges travelers to be aware of the states politics and organization said"the governor and state of florida shown that african-americans are not welcome in the state of florida." the travel advisory was indirect response to governor desantis's attempts to erase black history and erase inclusion programs in schools. it comes after desantis signed legislation defunding diversity programs in public universities and colleges. there is more of that in the new york times. we will hear from a floridian, this is tony in tampa on our independent line. hello. caller: how are you doing, pedro? i wanted to say if the republican wants to get it right, if you look at all the

candidates the democrats are going to have and the republicans, there is only one guy. it is a clear-cut choice. it is desantis. he is a great family guy. great education. he has been at harvard, graduated with honors. the military, a bronze medal winner. he has done everything he said he was going to do in florida. he is just, gets things done. people seem to follow him. when he puts something up, the state of florida vote him every time. he is pro-gun, he is pro-life, he checks all the boxes. i think a lot of these guys, a lot of them have connections to donald trump and that is why these guys are getting in like the guy in miami and tim scott

and even nikki haley. i know they do not think they have a chance to win and yet, i think they are getting in to water the vote down so it is trump against the pack. host: let's go to luke in demo soda -- minnesota, democrats line. caller: hello. i was just wondering if the congress people are dumping their portfolios yet, if they are planning on crushing the economy they want to have their portfolios off dollars into safer, foreign currency. are any of them doing that yet if they are not going to crash the economy, they can hold onto their stocks and bonds. else, get out of there if they are going to break it. host: that is blue in minnesota. the former chair of the senate banking committee saying in the wall street journal along with

mike sullivan of the organization u.s. policy metrics, the real stakes of the debt ceiling fight they write and before the pandemic, the congressional budget office in january 2020 projected the total discretionary -- would go to $1.5 trillion, which would justify our inflation amount to $1.6 trillion. projects fiscal 2024 fiscal discretionary spending will have a 10% real increase since -- defense outlays have fallen zero point 28% after inflation dollars. this growth and nondefense discretionary spending is the post-pandemic --this as speaker mccarthy's plan seeks to mitigate. total discretionary spending would still be 2.4% more in inflation-adjusted dollars than the cbo's 2020 projection for

2024. you can find more on the website of the wall street journal this morning. let's hear from eric in texas, independent line. caller: hey. i've got a question for pretty much everyone in the whole country. when did we become perfectly ok with our politicians doing domestic terrorism? that is what this is. whenever you threaten to cut everybody's paycheck off over the whole country, that is domestic terrorism. they could come to a deal within one to two days if they were not bad actors. we've got an entire d.c. full of bad actors. they are here to terrorize and steal from us. where is democracy in the united states? people in my generation have never seen democracy in this country. we have seen complete and total fascism, oligarchies,

autocracies, all of the things that exist in this country. you cannot have democracy, it has never happened. i am a millennial. nobody my age believes this system is even halfway honest. why do people even expect anyone to vote for that matter? these people are going to office and terrorize us. we were supposed to be fighting a war on terror, do not make me laugh. do not make me laugh. this government is full of terrorists if it is not just a terrorist organization itself. terrorizing the american people. host: that is eric in texas. let's hear from ted in new hampshire, democrats line. caller: i always was told some security was a separate fund. they are talking about either eliminating or delaying payments. there is people in nursing homes that need this cash and all of us around the fixed income. this here, i cannot believe that

would be something on the table. now, if there is separate funds, that should be looked at separately and not grouped in whole with the big, federal budget. host: ok. douglas is in maryland, republican line. hi. caller: hi. is this c-span? host: you are on. go ahead. caller: oh. ok. i would like to make a couple comments. i do not see the party, republican or democrat party, cutting or putting a freeze on their pay and their pensions. i think that is a big player in deficit spending. i would like to see that done. that is all i have to say. host: why do you think that is the big player in all of the spending that gets talked about? caller: it grows, they need to

freeze all federal pay including the rich senators. i do not see them coming up and taking any hits themselves. they are just about hitting the american people, but not willing to take a hit themselves. i think they are a wealthy group of institutional people that only care about their constituency on the wealthy end of it. stepping up to the platter as an american and -- i do not see them stepping up to the platter as an american and say, we should freeze our benefits toward contribute to saving the nation. i think they are greedy people. host: let's hear from douglas in maryland, republican line. caller: hi there. good morning, america. mi still online? i got cut off a minute ago.

i would like to cut -- to comment on the situation between china and russia having formed the nonaggression pact together. it is the same kind of repetition's history we experienced in world war ii and stalin and hitler's formed a nonaggression pact. that is something to pay attention to the other discussion you are having about money and the debt ceiling, that is important. money can be not a factor if we have to go to war. that is what fdr did during world war ii. we would have to keep our eye on russia having to develop sturdy, nuclear ballistic missile armed submarines. they will be circling the united states, you know that. we are going to be pressured from that side of the world. now, russia has allied with

china. that makes it even more precarious. host: one more call from ken in vermont, democrats line. caller: how are you doing? host: fine, thank you. go ahead. caller: i voted democrat. i did not like trump because of the way he ran his mouth and everything. he has got a proven track record when you compare it to biden, it does not compare. i am seriously thinking about voting for the man because he is way ahead of every poll that there is. he has got a proven track record. when he was president, we had all-time low border crossings, low-inflation, we were respected around the world, we were getting billions of dollars from china in tariffs. you like the man or not, he has a proven track record of doing great things for this country. host: to clarify in the last election of -- as a democrat,

you voted for trump? caller: no. host: you voted for president biden in the last election? caller: yes, and i am very disappointed. i have a lot of buyers remorse. i feel he has failed the american people, he has lied and failed this country. he has not done what he said he would do. host: such as what? caller: he said he was going to unify the country in his speeches. the things he had said, he has got a 40 year track record against voting against minorities. he has made statements on national television against them and i voted for the man. i have buyers remorse. trump's track record, we have low border crossings -- host: you made that point, so we are going to have to stop you there. thank you to all these calls and open forum.

we continue on with discussions about the debt ceiling. joining us is the committee for a responsible federal budgets president miya macguineas. she will take your calls on that. all of that when "washington journal" continues. ♪ ♪ >> c-span campaign 2024 coverage your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network. c-span now, our free mobile video app or wherever -- or online anytime at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of potics. ♪

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current, nonfiction book releases plus vest seller lists as well as industry news and trends through insider interviews. you can find about books on c-span now, our free mobile app, for wherever get your podcasts. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: back to join us to talk about issues of debt is maya macguineas, president of the committee for a responsible federal budget. with 10 days left to the supposed deck state, where are you as a result of this issue, if any, will come? guest: i feel confident we are going to resolve this. i have a pit in my stomach. it is the fact we are getting close to the deadline, much closer than we ever should have been. while the drama seems part of what is expected in a negotiation on both sides, they need to prove they are pushing everything.

there could be an inadvertent fault. there could be a scenario we do not get to an agreement and we default. these things should be inconceivable. i do not think they are likely. i am worried and i would like to pass the debt ceiling as quickly as possible. i wish we had passed it months ago. host: the argument from republicans is, in order to pass it, we need to see spending cuts. is that the best argument? caller: the debt ceiling has many times in the past been used as a vehicle where savings were part of that. it was particularly used in the 1980's and 1990's were there were things like simpson bowles commission, spending caps, actual packages of savings, lots of things had been attached to the debt ceiling but the debt ceiling has been attached to them. where we have generated savings at the same time we increased the debt ceiling. that is a reasonable policy. two things have changed. over the past decade, there have been more people that talk about

contemplating default. in the past when we did it, we knew all sides new, everyone in negotiations and we had to live the debt ceiling and there should not be escutcheon about default. it was a much calmer negotiation that got us fiscal improvements. that has gotten less true and it concerns me there are some people who seem to think defaulting would be an acceptable answer if they do not get what they want. it is not. the other thing leading to the fact i think the debt ceiling has now outlived its usefulness, it was very helpful in the past but has become too dramatic. under president trump, the debt ceiling was lifted three times. the talk was how it was a clean debt ceiling increase. it was not. when president trump increased the debt ceiling, he signed legislation that attached new, higher levels of borrowing. in recent years, we have set -- seen the debt ceiling used to make the debt worse. the former president said

recently they should contemplate befalling if they do not get the spending caps they wanted. that was one of the most reckless things i could imagine a leader saying. it does not line up with the fact he did sign into law policies that made the debt worse when he was increasing the debt ceiling. it has been a tool that has been used for this school improvements. it has become a tool now that is too much a part of dangerous showdown. where should we negotiate the savings we desperately need because of our fiscal situation? it is not ideal. we should negotiate this on the budget process. we do not budget in this country anymore. it has been 20 years since congress has passed a budget on time. this year, neither budget committee has come out with their budgets yet and leadership from the parties healthy budget committees do not put out budgets. where we should be doing this,

the senate has not been in this discussion. no budget, no plan, they have not engaged and this is the most important discussion going on. we do not budget in a way where we step back, look at the fiscal health of the country, need to make changes, and figure out what our priorities are and how we are going to pay for them. that is when this discussion should happen. the debt ceiling is the place where it can force a discussion and it is a discussion that needs to happen. once we get through this, it is time for us to reform the debt ceiling and our budget process so we do this anymore thoughtful, strategic way and we can actually have a fiscal policy that makes sense for the priorities of the country and is more fiscally responsible been now. guest: does that eliminate the debt ceiling? host: does that make someone else in charge of the debt ceiling other than congress, the president, where does that lie? guest: it does not eliminate the debt ceiling unless you replace it with something. we do not have any vehicle that forces the discussion of, are we

borrowing too much? we are borrowing too much, it is not a close call. we have been in five years, hitting the debt to gdp is the record it has ever been in this country, larger than it was after world war ii. we had just fought a world war and the debt came down quickly. we are on track to borrow another $22 trillion over the next 10 years if we do nothing. we spend more on interest payments then programs for children. in the next five years, we will spend more on interest payments then defense. it is important we think about these fiscal situations. you cannot get rid of the debt ceiling without putting in place something else. when idea, maybe if the -- one idea, if the debt ceiling had to be lifted at the same time you were voting on legislation that would make the debt worse, it would be better in terms of accountability. you have people who voted for legislation that grew the debt and are saying i do not want to lift the debt ceiling as though

it was not their policy that they voted for that are making the debt worse. you need to link the debt ceiling to the point where you decide to borrow. the point i would make to lawmakers who want to be fiscally responsible is what they should promise is not to lift the debt ceiling, but promise not to vote for legislation that borrows more than we already are borrowing. host: our guest is with us until 10:00. if you want to ask about the current state of debt ceiling negotiations. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independent bank for -- how much does that impact if all of those things would come? if everything on on the wish list came true, how much of an impact with that make? guest: let me try to put the context in their. if you want to balance a budget

over 10 years, which there had been talk the republicans were going to ask for --it is too much. you cannot balance a budget over 10 years. we are too big in a fiscal whole. that would have required $16 trillion in savings. we have never had a deal that saved close to that much. the package they came out with after $4.8 trillion in savings. that $4.8 trillion gets you a credible first step on fiscal improvement. it would be one of the bigger deals in recent history. i do not think it is going to be that big. the president's budget had asked for $3 trillion in savings. the that was a credible first step, that would not fix the problem but move us in the right direction. most budget deals in the past have made the deficit worse, not

better. both of those amounts are good starts that will not get us where we need to go. where do we need to go since we do not have to balance the budget to be in a much improved fiscal situation? we need to get to a point where our debt is not going faster than our overall economy. just to stabilize the debt at the level where it is, just short of 100% of gdp, would require about $8 trillion in savings over 10 years. whether they end up with $1 trillion or $4 trillion in savings, more will need to be done. if they are able to generate some savings instead of most often bipartisan cooperation is --i borrow for what i want, aren't we great for doing bipartisan work and add to the national debt that weakens our economy and national security and world abroad --that is not where we want to go.

in level of savings is an important first step to take this fiscal situation seriously. they are negotiating on the least important part of the budget in terms of generating long-term savings. the big drivers of our national debt are our growing health care cost, retirement, social security, medicare both heading towards insolvency --the fact we are not making changes to those are a disservice to people who depend on them. where going to need more revenues, higher taxes. we are going to have to make these changes so we can slow growth of interest payments on debt. once we get through this negotiation, land this plane, have some savings, lift the debt ceiling, another thing i hope will be part of the deal is a true, fiscal commission that will look at the biggest drivers of the debt, how to advert solvency to those programs, get additional savings and i would

suggest how to reform the debt ceiling, which is something that has to happen so we do not have this drama time and time again. host: our first call comes from kentucky, this is sandra, democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to ask about people paying their fair share of taxes. would that help the debt? i just do not know. so, i would like to have her opinion. host: thank you. she will answer the question. guest: yes, people need to pay their fair share. one of the best ways to get more revenue before we start raising taxes --i want to address the myths of both political parties, but yes. people paying what they owe is one of the most important parts

to start collecting revenue. there is a tax cap, the amount owed that is not paid. one of the things that happened in the inflation reduction act last year was there was more funding for the irs. one of the parts of the republican acts that have come up that will be counterproductive is to repeal that money for the irs. the additional money is going to be used to try and close that tax gap and ensure people that are not paying everything they owe those taxes are collected. a lot of times, it is not just people acting in bad faith. it is also people that because the tax system is so complicated, they do not pay the right amounts. another goal of this funding is to get the irs to be more responsive to taxpayers questions about what they owe and how to fill out the forms, to simplify them. i do not --i am very worried lots of people sell free lunches when it comes to fiscal policy. i do not want to pretend just collecting taxes owed will fix this problem. it will collect significant

revenues and is an important part of regaining trust. there is a loss of trust between parties, citizens and the government. part of that trust needs to be regained where people understand they are paying taxes that are road and corporations individuals are also paying theirs because we have to be part of keeping this system fair and working. host: will is in kentucky, republican line. hello. caller: thank. this might sound a little far-fetched, but i just paid 300 -- .350 for a loaf of bread. i was wondering, how many people understand billions and trillions of dollars? they are really concerned. me, myself, just spending .350

four a loaf of bread, i do not get it. host: thank you. guest: i may not be understanding how much you paid for that loaf of bread. you may have overpaid. i may not be understanding. your point about billions and trillions, i do understand and agree with. it is impossible to make sense of what a billion, let alone a trillion dollars is. one of the statistics i must worry about is we are going to spend $10.6 trillion on interest payments over the next decade on interest payments over the next decade. can understand that is a large number. what does it mean? it is difficult to know. i will plug a program we built because of this question. if you look at the committee for responsible federate -- federal budgets website, we have

interactive tools where you can try to fix social security, take quizzes, i think they are interesting. there is one called, is it worth it? which breaks down the cost of our programs, tax cuts as a share of households or family or individual. at that point, you can look at the fact that interest payments can cost as much as $2000 --over $2000 per family per year. any of the things -- these things you can look at on an individual level. the numbers are astronomically large. during covid, when we talked about the budget, we were talking in billions. covid changed the default number to be trillions, that is even more difficult to understand. host: this is the website, by the way. the list of policy proposals, the first is student debt changes. guest: that is one of the things

they have asked to repeal. there would be a tremendous savings from it. i think that is going to end up getting decided in the courts. our organization was concerned about the fact student debt repeal, very expensive, poorly targeted and went through the administration instead of congress, were something that costley would generally need to be approved by congress. that was a huge switch that was not done in a way appropriate budgeting should be done. host: jim joins us from pennsylvania, independent line. caller:, good morning pedro. i like this guest you have on. i hope she can explain what they did down there. my question to your guest is, a, whatever happened to simpson bowles? i think it was under clinton or

obama that they had this simpson bowles --i heard you mention, ma'am, about a committee. they did that once before, i think it was called simpson bowles. they come up with good recommendations, it was bipartisan and nobody listen to everything. they just threw it out. the other question i have is, i heard a number that blew me away the other day. it was, illegal immigrants are costing us about $2 billion a day. that cannot be right. i do not know where that number came from. cbo, my wife says. the last two years, 5 million have crossed our border and are here. i know right now, only about 40% of americans pay income tax. now we've got another 5 million not paying income tax. these numbers, out here in the hinterland where we work hard

and put our money in banks, now we seen even the banks are failing. is that going to be a problem down the road? host: thank you for the questions. guest: tons of great stuff. i will work my way.backwards --i do not think on the micro level it is going to be a problem depending on how much money you have in banks. you want to make sure it is insured. on the macro level it has been assuring there have not been more tank failures. we are in a tricky moment where inflation is too high. we are trying to avoid a recession and contagion in the banking sector. i am feeling relatively good about where we are. i think we might go into a small recession. i do not know, nobody can predict this with any real confidence. on a macro level, it is troubling. it is a time where people are nervous. we do not feel like our

political system is working well. we do not feel like there is stability in the economy. i share and understand the general, i do not feel like things are working and this uncertainty makes me nervous. on your immigration question, i do not know where the 2 billion number comes from. if you and your wife are reading cbo, that is awesome. that is my favorite thing to read. the documents that come out of the congressional budget office are balanced, it is what caused me to change my career. i was working in a different field and started reading cbo reports and found them compelling, which said something about me. they are well written. they have a number about immigration, that is where i would go to learn about it. host: --if you are done. [laughter] guest: thank you for the question on simpson bowl. it was a remarkable commission a

little over a decade ago. it was bipartisan, it had support from members of congress who were as extreme as tom coburn, who is no longer with us, a true blue conservative and durbin, a true progressive and concerned about the well-being of lower income people. these people came to understand how the fiscal situation was so bad needed to make changes, also came to understand each other's values. on the right, republicans cared about making sure economic growth was not hampered. on the left, democrats making sure the most vulnerable were protected. they came up with a blueprint that would have done wonders for the overall physical health of the country. some of those things have been adopted, but most of them, we should bring it back and start their. it was the only time when the simpson bowles commission came out with their work, both the new york times and wall street journal had glowing editorials

on the same day. it was a sensible, balanced, bipartisan plan. the reason why simpson bowles can be helpful is congress -- so many leaders know what needs to happen. they know we cannot demagogue social security and medicare, we have to make changes. we have to make changes to make sure those programs that -- do not become insolvent. there is not enough revenue to fund the spending programs we and they want and to put in the budget. the promise not to raise taxes on people making under $400,000 is not reasonable. we are going to have to raise taxes and do real reforms to spending. simpson bowles recognized commissions allowed politicians to have cover so they can say, i do not like the way this was done but at least it would make the necessary improvements on the debt. yes, i think we need another simpson bowles to something

completely different that looks at broader economic issues like how you control inflation, economic growth and the banking sector along with our fiscal challenges and reforming the debt ceiling that has to happen. there is a great plan called the trust act that is bipartisan and bicameral. it says any program headed towards insolvency within 15 years, we will put together a special group that will try to fix that. , senator manchin senator romney are the two sponsors of that. there are a lot of ideas out there. simpson bowles came very close. it was really disappointing and discouraging they were not able to pass that. i believe if it had been brought to the floor for a vote, it would have passed. there were a number of members of congress who worked tirelessly to get it done. i think political leadership often stands in the way, and not all the leaders at the time -- many were incredibly helpful,

but there were some who did not want that bill to get done as it could have and should have. it was a big loss. we would be in a better place today if simpson bowles had been adopted. that is why i am hoping this part of the deal there will be a commission that gives us a chance to focus on the bigger problems that are weakening our budget, our economy and our role in the world. host: we have a viewer off of twitter that ask you had stated we were approaching the ratio around world war ii. how do we fix that? is it through tax cuts and spending or tax raises and spending? guest: cutting spending which generated a huge amount of economic growth and it was a time when workers were flooding back into the workforce. we had demographics on our side at the time whereas right now, we have demographics working against us where we have the big ab boom generation which has moved in large part to retirement.

we should have made changes to our fiscal situation before they were retirees. any changes to these programs are going to protect retirees, they are not part of the solution looking toward the future. if we had done this when a bigger population was still working, it would have helped more. we have the headlands of retirees and the growing aging of the population whereas after world war ii we had demographics on our signed. if you look at where we are now, any fiscal plan that is going to bring that debt down from around 106% after world war ii, it is going to require anything is on the table. all parts of the budget are going to have to be part of the solution. so not everybody feels it is there one piece of the budget not getting harmed. i think the debt ceiling negotiation, it makes sense to look at spending caps.

it should be the first step for the down payment on generating bigger savings that will be necessary. host: we will hear next from jan in orlando, republican line. caller: hello? host: you are on, go ahead. caller: hi. we need to address the elephant in the room, why can't the dems and republicans get along? i mean, that is a big problem right there. number two, why are we sending trillions and billions of dollars to help out countries when we need some money for ourselves? i am all for helping other countries, but we've got to take care of ourselves to overhear. host: thanks, jan. guest: that elephant in the room was quite the elephant. let me address overseas money.

there is no right or wrong answer on this. people's preferences about how we allocate the resources in our budget are going to be different, and that is legitimate. what we need is an actual budget process where the budget committees do budgets and the bodies support those budgets, reconcile the differences, we fund the government without shutting the government down. we need an actual budget process that will look at the diverse points of view we have and figure out how to budget. i would make an argument a lot of money we spend overseas is an investment in national security in a different way. i think that investment in countries and their stability around the world can end up having profoundly positive effects on our well-being here. it is not always as direct as the seeing things on health-care costs. i agree that the country's

obligation to take care of its citizens and the point i would make is often, overseas investment can be part of taking care of its citizens when done in a smart way. to your elephant in the room, i am exasperated as i am sure so many americans are. i am a political independent. i do not feel aligned to either party. i think both of them makes sense on different topics. i have different preferences that align with republicans and democrats. i do not think our lining up as to teams and feeling that beating up each other from that team perspective is doing anything positive for the country right now. i think we are at a point where party is becoming more important than the well-being of a nation. that is highly dangerous. when i think about --i agree, i am sad, were read and concerned about it. in this city, it feels like if you are not on team d or r, you

are ideologically homeless if you are an independent. it should be discussions about policies and we should be unified that we want the well-being of the country and we may disagree on what gets us there, but we are all starting from a place of trying to think through our own positions and figure out how we can cooperate and compromise. the problem with polarization, partisanship and where we are right now is that it leads people to focus on things like politics rather than policy. the short-term, the next political cycle rather than the long-term well-being of the country. it leads extremes to have louder voices instead of compromise. on fiscal issues, it leads us to perpetuate free lunch myths. on one side you hear tax cuts will pay for themselves. they do not and they will not. they will pay for a small fraction, but not for themselves. on the others you hear, we can print our way out of it. when you print too much money,

it leads to inflation. instead of doing the tough choices and dealing with trade-offs, polarization and partisanship leads to free lunches you hear all the time, people try to avoid doing hard things because they do not think if they are honest about, we have to raise taxes and cut spending, voters will tolerate it. they are worried they will get beaten up and attack ads are run against anybody that rightly says revenue has to go up but we have to address the insolvency we are headed towards in social security and medicare that are going to lead to benefit cuts and provider cuts if we do not do anything. they get attacked for those. we are in a moment, a long moment, rarely obligations --the devotion to party has led to bad policies and --i feel like the debt ceiling negotiations right now, i hope they have a sense of where we can land this. they are going to have to come

up with showing us narratives or their site made sense. that is part of a negotiation. there should be more focus on what -- on doing what is right for the country, finding ways to generate savings that we need. we should be able to agree on some of those objectives. it seems anything one party once, the other party rejects. that is a mindset that is damaging and getting worse. we have complicating factors that are making the world much more complicated, our country much more complicated. i cannot give a talk without talking about how we should be focusing on how ai is going to change everything we have been dealing with. misinformation is a real issue. we need to be focused on those real threats and be doing that in a unified way. host: you said you have a love of cbo documents. you took a look at the cbo's recent 2023 baseline and ask people to look at that and look at scenarios that could stem from that. can you condense that for our

viewers who might be interested in what the cbo has said and where we are at? guest: the biggest things to take away from that is the fact that we are going to be spending over $10 trillion on interest payments over the next decade. that is money that will not be spent on new programs or tax cuts. it is going to pay for interest first. the only way to change that line item is to bring our fiscal situation down. we are going to be spending $80 trillion. when we are talking about cutting a few trillion over the next 10 years, it is important to think about where you are going to cut that. the numbers are small compared to the overall spending. the deficits are going to be too large. we are going to be borrowing over $20 trillion over the next decade. that is going to bring our gdp back up over the record we had before.

there is not a single part of the budget --and now that we are getting warnings that social security and medicare will be insolvent within a decade --changes now can be done gradually. there is not a single part of the cbo report, i encourage people to read them --there is not a single part that is reassuring. another thing i always take, this is not explicit in the cbo report, we look at how much we are spending per seniors compared to children. we are spending six dollars for seniors for every one dollar we are spending on people under 18. there are metrics like that that concerned me that we are not making the appropriate investments in our future. we've got a generation that is not having investments in their human capital and education in the way that is necessary, and at the same time, and heralding

the biggest that load we have ever had. it used to be when we ran debts we would say, each generation will be better off than the previous generation. that is not anywhere close to the short thing -- the assured thing right now. the younger generation are already seeing it. they are inheriting incredible, incredible challenges that we have been unable to resolve and fix and have gotten much worse under our leadership. i am very worried about the low level investment in the next generation. host: stacy is in wisconsin, democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question i know that thousands of people like me, nobody ever talks about survivor benefits from widows. my son is disabled. my husband died in 2014. i had to take care of him, i had to quit my job.

it is all we have to live on. nobody ever talks about, they just keep saying insolvency, but nobody ever talks about, what are they going to do about that and what they expect people who are taking care of the disabled child or disabled parent and they cannot work because they have to take care of them 24 hours a day? can you please address this? guest: thank you for your question. your question illustrates why it is so reckless we have had a political class that is refusing to talk about and address the fact social security will become insolvent if we do not make changes. if we do nothing, every person in social security will receive an across-the-board benefit cut of 20% to 25%. that is just plain stupid. there are so many retirees, beneficiaries, survivors illustrating who need to be protected by any of those cuts. if we make changes to the

program that are done thoughtfully, saved in and targeted in the right places, we can protect everybody who needs protecting. it is my belief, i think there are many people who receive social security benefits --i know this to be true, people speak up and say i am getting social security, i do not need it. i am doing fine, i want to give it back if i knew it were going to go to strengthen the program. one of the places we could start is giving --this is the idea of a couple of bipartisan members of congress, what if we start a plan where you check the box if what you want to do is return your social security benefit and put it back into the system? there are many people who need it less, that is where you want to start looking for the slowest growth for benefits for people who do not need them. there is a few people are only getting out of social security

what they paid and. -- paid in. the truth is, because we are living so much longer than we used to, many people who are living long period of time are getting much more out than they put in. some people desperately need that money. that is how the program should work. some people who do not need it, perhaps there is a way once you have gotten what you have paid in, we could give it back or make changes in those benefits. we can lift the payroll tax cap, fix how we calculate inflation, gradually raise that retirement age for younger people, reflecting the fact we live much longer and life expectancy is many years longer than when the program started and life expectancy was only 62 and the retirement age was 65. there are smart, gradual, thoughtful bipartisan changes we can make to this program. they should protect people who have so many important stories like yours, where they need

every benefit and possibly more. maybe we need to put in a minute if it -- minimum benefit. so they are able to be a caregiver as needed. there is lots of tweaks we can make to the program. what we cannot do --and i was disappointed in the president's state of the union, let's put together a bipartisan group and get to it -- we have to make these changes. just because it is politically popular to promise not to make them it does not mean you are protecting the program. you are really leaving the program vulnerable. host: this is from chris in illinois, republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. my question has to do with one of the parts of the budget that people say it is hard to touch,

that is the defense portion. one of the things in the last three decades, we have had several wars that have cost us quite a bit and added quite a bit to the deficit on the debt. i wanted to see what your thoughts were on whether or not cutting defense in some ways was a thing we should look at and how we will get to other wars. the defense budget has failed several audits. if we could recover some of what we think were losing their, what would be the effect? guest: great questions today. it has been a change in policy we no longer pay for wars. in the past when we were at war, there would be some form of revenue increased to offset other costs. it would make sense we would do that going forward.

i am not sure that wars are going to take the shame -- the same shape and form in the past. there are going to be all kinds of wars, that is a different breed entirely. the notion that when we are at a war, we would want to pay for it makes sense and it is a shame we stop doing that. it would have helped our to fit -- our deficit if we had paid for those wars. the defense budget, yes and no. it is important to listen to our national security experts and listen to what our needs are. there are places for savings in the budget. there are lots of ways in the ways we do procurement. one of the complicating issues is, so many defense programs that are overspending --many of these programs are huge job providers in different districts and states. there is a huge constituency of support for them. it is harder to make changes.

there are a number of places we could have savings in the defense budget, including entitlement programs in defense. on the other hand, it is fair to say it is becoming a riskier world and lots of places. while i think that our savings that could and should be had in the defense department, we are going to see ramping up of spending in different areas. overall, i do not think we will we able to a shrinking of defense in the share of gdp to help get our fiscal situation under control. it is more likely we will end up spending more on defense because of the tensions going on around the world. cyber is a huge area of this. i hope while we are doing that, we can cut as much of the defense unnecessary spending as possible. i think we will see that in national security. host: greg, go ahead from

maryland. hello. caller: this is my first time getting through. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: thank you, sir. my memory goes back to the first time the budget, for the last time, it got put into balance. we economically grew our way into it. we expanded our way into balance. you know, i am not an economist. i think we have to have gdp at 12%, 15% in order to think of anything like that happening now. it is almost not feasible. i watch this stuff and thought about it a lot. we have raised taxes, we have lowered taxes. we have done every combination there is about tinkering around with the taxes to solve this

problem. what are we going to do? are we going to cut taxes? are we going to raise them back to where they were? it seems like we just keep adding to the debt. i do not understand why it would take a lot of hard work, but if we could get the cost of living in this country under control, it is a simplistic theory, but it would cost a whole lot less to run our government. host: thanks, caller. guest: the last time we balance the budget we increased taxes and reduced spending. there was strong economic growth, it was temporary and not sustained. all those factors help. i worry there is the belief we can grow our way out of this problem. we cannot. we should look at policy that helps promote growth. we should tax the things that help promote growth more than things that do not and the

spending reduction should be consistent with things that help promote growth. we are not going to come close to growing our way out of this problem. you would need growth levels much higher than we are going to see at a sustained level. there are chances there will be unanticipated productivity gains. i talked about my concerns with ai. there are upsides with technologies and innovations that could promote growth but we cannot count on them. to throw cold water on that notion we can grow our way out of it, we cannot. growth is better than no growth. but in the end, we have to be realistic. we will have to look at taxes and spending. and i want to remind people that the reason it matters so much, a healthy fiscal situation, is to be prepared for the next emergency. it means our interest payments are not hurting other parts of the budget. it means our state of living is

higher than it otherwise would be. it means we are not as dependent on borrowing from countries to finance our spending. it means we are able to update our social contract, which is outdated. it is focused on the problems of the last century instead of on the future. it means you have flexibility in the budget. even though these things are hard, and i know it is difficult to say here is the truth, we have to fix medicare, we have to raise taxes, but that is the truth and there is a payoff in terms of the fiscal policy and economic health and well-being of the country. and our role in the world. so, if we can say we actually want our political leaders to make those hard decisions, it would be better for the country overall. host: the committee for responsible federal budget, president maia mcginnis.

do not forget, senator tim scott made his presidential announcement this morning. you can see that on c-span. that's it for the program today. another edition of "washington journal" will start tomorrow at seven a clock a.m. we will see you then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: president biden and kevin mccarthy will meet this afte as they resume talks to raise the federal d ceiling. on the phone on sunday nightpoke during the president's trk from japan. talks productive.called the the house may take up an agreement later this week,

followed by the senate, is all recessed -- is all recessed. chuck schumer says the get 24 hours notice to return to washington to vote. announcer: today, republican senar m scott announces his 2024 presidential campaign from northhaeston in his home state of south carolina. watch at 11:00 a.m. on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. announcer: the u.s. house gavels back in today at noon. lawmakers ll consider the final version of legislation to look at faa system outas at halted airline flights. then lear in the week, they look at the drug twindemic -- epidemic, and legislation