a front row seat to democracy. . host: natalie andrews joining us, serving as a congressional reporter with the wall street journal, also tracking the debate over the debt ceiling. guest: thanks for having me. host: we know the person of the forefront of the discussions is speaker mccarthy, talk about the negotiations. guest: i have been talking to republicans all weekend, they are getting briefed to see if anything the white house is offering a some think they would be on board with and they have been shredded. dusty johnson, cochair of the main street publican caucus, which is your mainstream republicans, he wants to see spending cuts as well. they were frustrated, the white

house offer over the weekend increased the spending for next year instead of decreasing it. chip roy, caucus members are known for being more hard line spending. they are frustrated and they issued a statement on friday, saying they would like to see what house republicans pass in april. house republicans are watching closely. kevin burke -- kevin mccarthy does not want to lose a lot of republicans a negotiation because this is his team and he wants to bring them over the finish line. negotiations will probably go down to how many he is willing to cut loose. host: factor in the amount of days left until the date of june 1. what happens in the 10 days or so we will see? guest: it's going to be tight. house republicans in the deal in january when kevin mccarthy was becoming speaker, he scored an open process where they want to

bring amendment to the floor. they have a 72 hour rule for legislation. it means if they are going to pass something this week, they needed on the floor by tuesday, tomorrow. which is rapidly approaching. that does not begin to outline the senate -- if they come back tuesday, they have two days to pass something which is a hard lift in the senate. it is going to be intense. 10 days is hard to get anything to congress. it is hard with the three-day weekend. we could see recesses, they could bring congress back. it will be interesting. host: what is they message from leadership about the meeting taking place today? guest: guest: we expected in the afternoon and it is to get things back on track. negotiators treated paper over the weekend and discussed.

what they were far apart and if they are going to cut a deal, we'll have to get down to brass tacks. if we're talking topline spending numbers, it is unknown if they have worked out things like work requirements or permitting, things could get sticky. host: we will invite callers, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans and (202) 748-8002 four independents. natalie andrews covers this and you can text your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. the stickiest sticking point, what is it? guest: the top line number. house republicans want to see cut spending. they want to set the topline

number for spending for the next fiscal year. which would start in october. so the white house came back with an offer that increased spending, 30 billion dollars, a lot of money but in the grand scheme of the spending bills, which are usually more than $1 trillion, it is $30 billion. house republicans want to cut spending. they have looked at fiscal 22 levels, which would be a year and a half ago. they are apart part on that number. they've got to come together on that before they get down to where the money is being spent. host: it is amazing they are still at this level, considering the number of days that have expired. guest: exactly. and house publicans will say it we have been trying to get this set since february, biden and mccarthy met in early february and they passed a bill in april.

then the white house started moving and things like that. the white house is very focused on saying no negotiations for several months. host: if there is a rollback of spending, are all areas treated equally? does the fence apartment c cuts and other areas where they do not? where will lines be drawn? guest: that is sticky. republicans don't want to cut veteran spending or defense. they want to increase defense. the white house is opposed and says where money will be taken will hurt things like education, early childhood education or cancer research, the discretionary spending that gets sped out -- spread out in funds like that. which are domestic programs. they don't want to see the funding cut there. host: we have heard from democrats over the morning, the sunday show, backing the president on maybe using this 14th amendment. is this a widespread thought or

a final break glass situation? guest: the 14th amendment, which is interesting to go back and look at, a lot of people associated with the civil war and we suddenly pull back a 200 year loophole in the archives. but it seems like a rake glass emergency measure and would be difficult to execute, to continue doing it. the amendment basically says the debt of the u.s. is guaranteed. the idea that these progressive democrats are pushing biden to say i have the power under the 14th and i meant to act unilaterally. but it would see court challenges and probably be stopped or stayed by the court and as janet yellen has said, there is not a lot of time. host: she keeps saying this.

that number does not resonate, is that the case? guest: it is starting to. her comments yesterday were clear. she said that june 1 date is there because by june 15 the u.s. will be having a hard time paying its bills. that seemed clear and specific. some lawmakers were taken aback because they expected a mid july date. when she came out with june 1, there was shock on the hill. host: natalie andrews joining us, she reports on congress for the wall street journal. from memphis, tennessee, betty on the democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: what people don't seem to understand, people are living paycheck-to-paycheck. if this debt bill does not get resolved, people are going to lose out.

people use this money to pay their bills every month. we don't have time to -- people need to sit back and listen. biden needs to step up and take care of his country instead of taking care of other people's country. host: thank you. guest: it is unclear how the u.s. would slow down paying the debt. obviously social security payments are a huge portion of what the u.s. is obligated to pay. it is unclear. also military salaries. people after dealing with inflation for several months, we looking at paycheck-to-paycheck. people are started to look -- watch this closely because while the treasury can move around money like we all do and it is a

tight month, it gets tricky when the coffers are low. host: to clarify, it is not cuts to the program. it is prioritization of how they will be paid. guest: the debt ceiling is not a government shutdown. but it is as though the treasury has run out of money and they won't be able to make certain payments. janet yellen has some power to decide. she has been executing this power since january. deciding how to pay, what to prioritize, that kind of element that we do with household budgets. when you get a big bill and you have to pay part of it, things like that. social security and government paychecks for federal workers, it is not clear how long they will be able to continue paying that if they chose to prioritize social security over debt payments. it starts getting tricky after

the deadline. host: krista joins us from michigan. thanks for calling. this is -- actually, kyle from buffalo. caller: good morning, c-span. last segment, there were callers that talked about the trillion dollars that we all do show and one lady talked about the balanced-budget the clinton era dues. one was the last time we had a balanced-budget? do you know that, and why can't we get our military spending under 60%? last question, is the military funding part of the ukraine support that we send? we spend a lot of money on military services. guest: for the balanced-budget, i don't have that trivia offhand.

but i can talk about the military funding and what has gone to ukraine. the military -- the defense budget is included in this. as they look for that top line number. it is usually divided into defense, nondefense and what they call discretionary -- nondefense discretionary, which includes veteran funding and things like that. with ukraine, they have been adding extra what they call supplemental. parabens of a mental bills focus on the pandemic and recently, ukraine. i think it will be hard for lawmakers to get a ukraine supplemental into any bill in september. ukraine is probably going to ask for it. but i think the republicans -- the dynamic of a republican majority makes it difficult. evan mccarthy recently pledged support for ukraine. it is unclear how that will look.

there is ukraine money tied into the foreign aid the u.s. gives out to various countries. that is part of the topline spending number they keep talking about. host: before we go too far, some other things in washington. the house republicans taking a look at fentanyl in a bill that they say will help reduce that. can you give us the broad-based approach of what they are proposing? guest: they made fentanyl a huge push as they talk about the border security, addressing addiction, things like that. this is one of several bills that they have lined up to address a crisis across the country, that is killing people. every lawmaker can talk about how folks have dealt with drug overdoses in their districts. host: the appropriations committee will meet as well, to talk about budgeting issues. give us what to expect as far as that process. guest: it has been interesting

in the debt ceiling talks. the appropriators are trying to meet to get appropriations bills passed and the appropriators the topline number -- need the topline number to draw details, just like with a household budget. they are starting to meet. one notable element is that with house republicans in charge, they are looking at the topline numbers they cite, which are from fiscal 2022. they are trying to fill in the spaces there while not cutting veteran spending, while not cutting defense spending, increasing defense spending is what they would like. it will be interesting to see how they start, what that would look like. host: chris in michigan, independent line. caller: good morning, how are you? host: thank you, you are on with

our guest. caller: real quick, it is not necessarily go with what we are facing right now. but something that comes in the back of my mind, when they are spending money or approving a bill that is going to cost $2 trillion or whatever it may be, why don't they take and implement that they have to approve the debt ceiling -- the amount in the debt ceiling at that time? it is fresh in their minds, we are spending $2 trillion. we've got to approve this now instead of waiting nine or 10 months down the road. then we are faced with the consequences now. if it is fresh on their mind at the time, they can sit back and think, we are spending this credit card money, we are we going to get the money? that is my thought. thank you. guest: how do you feel about running for congress? [laughter]

it is a good point. approving the spending in november it was a $1.5 trillion bill and janet yellen almost immediately in january said this is going to affect the debt ceiling and this was for spending for the next fiscal year. something that congress had to do. now we are in this so-called crisis because we are against the deadline. the debt ceiling was implemented as kind of a gap stop -- not a gap stop measure, but as a way for congress to look at how it money. so we get into these pickles every so often when they decide this is a big deal. host: what is the thinking about when the next debt limit would take place? guest: they pass it in the likely period would be march 2024. which they are excited about because even congressional republicans don't want a debt ceiling fight when they are trying to run primary elections, both for the presidential but

also their own primary elections would be happening for a lot of them. i know that biden would like to see it not go out until 2025. some republicans make be on for that. they don't want to deal with us again. the more conservative republicans say they only do that if they are guaranteed spending cuts. host: what is the harm if the debt ceiling is raised and the debt is paid without including the demanded cuts? guest: the problem is it would not get through congress right now. because kevin mccarthy controls what comes to the floor in the house. her ways of going around him. house democrats last week introduced the discharge petition. it is a way to maneuver around leadership. if you can get a majority of lawmakers to sign on to the petition, can bring legislation to the floor. they have almost all of the democrats they need to sign the petition, and they need five

republicans to cross party lines and force the vote. it will be hard. because of the different timing rules that are instituted in discharge positions, desk petitions, they would miss the deadline. host: you said almost all of the democrats. white? guest: we have three that have not quite signed. i know ed case would wait, and jared golden. they are democrats who typically wait. these are formerly known as blue dogs who are more conservative and maybe wanted to see what was happening before they signed. host: sandra in waynesboro, virginia. democrats line. caller: i would like to offer a tidbit and a little history if i may. number one, and a lot of people call in and say the top 10% already pay 40% of the taxes.

i googled and ask how much of our country's wealth is the top 10% hold, and google responded the top 10% holds over 60% of the wealth. so i felt like why not ask them to pay 50% of the taxes if they hold over six he percent of the wealth? that would still give them 10% to play with, to leave eight nest egg for their children. so why can we not go forward on the wealthy needing to pay more taxes, they have more money in their pocket. like uncle joe holds all of the family wealth and you hold none of it, so why shouldn't he pay for the funeral for my mom who just died? that is one thought. the other is from thomas jefferson. the original wording was the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of property was guaranteed to all americans. they changed it to happiness. i don't know why.

i could guess. but i think if you were held in such bondage that your job allows you know way to save up a nest egg, to even buy a car you can keep in good shape, much less a house that you can pay a mortgage on, that is virtual slavery. for the sneer rich people in congress to continue to provide a scheme that allows the very wealthy to get wealthier while they hope to become part of the very wealthy is criminal. host: thanks. guest: one point the biden administration would like to use is to raise taxes on people making more than $400,000 of -- a year in some aspect. that is what he proposed, various tax increases to address the budget. for house republicans that is a hard know. they promised not to raise taxes on anyone. i had offended -- a friend ask

the same question, why don't they raise them a little to try to address the deficit? they said members of congress would like to get reelected. and so-and-so raised taxes -- it is not great for them. they made the promise they will not raise taxes and that is what they're trying to do, all of this, addressing the deficit through spending cuts. host: how does president biden deal with the tax cuts from the trump initiation? guest: some of them are set to expire. some of the tax cuts -- there are various tax cuts that will, in the next few years and that congress will have to address them. host: from our republican line, jerry in virginia. guest: good morning.

i don't believe we will be up against our debt limit if we were not supporting 10 million illegal immigrants. i wish someone would tell us how much money they are spending supporting these illegal immigrants. host: i don't have that number off my head. i can tell you that part of addressing immigration is part of the topline numbers congress is spending. we know that house republicans would love to have their immigration bill they passed recently be included in any spending talks. but that is very partisan and i would expect it is a nonstarter for the biden administration. host: let me ask about things unrelated. george santos being referred to the ethics committee. what does his day look like? guest: day-to-day, being chased by reporters everywhere he goes.

he has lost his command occasions director. she quit last week. in a somewhat public fashion. the ethics committee traditionally acts very slowly but kevin mccarthy has asked them to act fast. in addressing what his possible punishment may be. it is interesting because he has admitted to lying to voters who elected him and admitted that the biography was fairly false. his day-to-day life, he does not have committee positions. he comes to vote most of the time and finds himself often trailed by reporters. it is not known if he has a lot of friends on the house. host: what was the thinking around having him on the ethics committee rather than being expelled from congress? guest: they say he is owed do

process. they want to put them through and investigations of the ethics committee can decide if he should be punished or censured. the reason democrats don't like it is because the ethics committee is typically slow and are made up of your peers. they are very resistant to actually punish members of congress. host: i want to ask about senator dianne feinstein. but first i want to -- somebody asked about was rhode island democrat jack, asked about the return and giving his thoughts. i want to play this. >> i think senator feinstein has performed remarkably in her career. at this point she has medical issues and has acknowledged them. she still is able to summon the energy and the concentration to come to vote. she has continued to work. she deserves the opportunity to make a decision. if i had the opportunity to

serve with strom thurmond, he was 100 when he retired. some people back then were saying he should go. but not with the same kind of intensity today. this is something senator feinstein should consider and make a decision. host: one perspective among democrats in the senate. one of the thinking? -- what are they thinking? guest: it has been tough. she was gone for several months, she returned and does not look 100%. there were questions about her ability to do her job even before she became ill. she turned down senior roles and the senate is all about seniority so they are not all young. especially if you are a chairman. she was supposed to be the pro-trump or -- pretty important -- pro-tempore when kamala

harris was in town. she turned that down. she could have been the first woman to share the judiciary committee and to turn it down. that is acknowledgment that she is maybe not up to the task. they said she is coming back but she may not vote 100%. it is tough to see a senator from a large estate not necessarily be commanding the -- having the mental fortitude to ask questions, to participate in hearings and that kind of thing. host: has it cramped the ability for the senate to do its job? guest: when she was out, they were not quiet about saying it was tough to not a member. she issued a statement that said they could replace her and it needed a full senate vote and republicans said no. she is in this place where she is coming to the judiciary committee, she is voting and helping them get people that

were tough to get out of committee out. she will participate in both on the floor to confirm judges which is a key focus of biden in these two years warehouse or publicans have the house. you are not going to get a lot of legislation through, so you push to get as many nominees through the senate as possible while you have control. it is tough. she had this incredible career, and her few years in the senate is shaping her legacy into one where there are questions about her health. host: one more call from clyde in missouri. caller: good morning. a couple of points. feinstein and federman are both derelict and should be gone. and the liar they are trying to get rid of, he should feel right at home amongst such a collection of liars that we have. and the lady that called earlier from florida, she was stating

things like fact that clinton had the bills all paid. since 1900, there is only been one president that actually paid down on the debt. that was eisenhower. two years he paid down on the debt. other than that, it has never been paid. it was not paid in 1900. host: you had your statements. do you have a question? caller: a question for her. i don't know -- she could not answer -- host: i apologize. the status of your colleague, evan gershkovich, where do we stand? guest: a lot. he will head to detention this week. we are trying to do every thing we can to talk about him so thank you for that. he has a court date scheduled.

it is not expected to be one where he will be released. it is expected to go to trial. it is important to talk about how he is unfairly and unreasonably detained. he was doing his job in russia and working very hard. he loved doing his job as we all do. this element of journalism takes love and he loved being in russia, telling stories of the people. he was doing that and unfairly detained and captured by russian authorities. host: has a wall street journal been told by the president, white house or state department as to efforts of his release? guest: no. we know they are working on it. there is a public facing effort to get paul whelan out. and there are things behind the scenes happening as well. we are all thinking of evan.

the wall street journal is a place where as a cover congress, i get emails from around the world, asking me to ask members of congress questions from my colleagues. i ask them questions. when i don't know something that has come up on the hill. you get to know your coworkers from all over the world and just the thought that his parents don't have any way to contact him or talk to him on a regular basis breaks my heart. host: natalie andrews who >> the house returns later today at 2 p.m. eastern for ative business. members will consider six bills including the final version of legislation that helps wit airlines flights. and the cost living increase foreterans. watch live covere the house here on-span. 5:30 p.m. eastern president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy meet in the oval office at the white house as they resume their talks to the

federal debt ceiling and future federal spending. >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no inter-- interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> visit c-span shop.org, our online store. gave up to 20% on our latest collection of c-span apparel, home decor and m