announcer: coming on "washington journal," a look at the democrats' priorities with congressman brad schneider. more on the de lit and republican concerns with rich mccormick. anth e&e reporter kelly brer on the debt ceiling talks. "washington journal" starts now.

♪ host: president biden and house speaker kevin mccarthy met late yesterday, seeking agreement on how to reach the debt limit by june 1. and avoid economic consequences. the speaker left on an optimistic note, but many on the democratic side say the best option in the president's playbook is to use the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling. that would not sit well with republicans and would likely result in a constitutional challenge in the courts. good morning. it is tuesday, may 23, 2023. our opening question is should the president use the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling? if you say yes the president should do that, (202)-748-8000 is your line. if you say no, it is

(202)-748-8001. if you are not sure, it is (202)-748-8002. we welcome your comments via text, (202)-748-8003, include name and where you are texting from. or on facebook, twitter, and instagram @cspanwj. we will hear from the president and speaker both before and after that meeting late yesterday at the white house. . we will look at the entry of south carolina senator tim scott into the presidential race. but our opening topic is should the president use the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling? here was the roll call yesterday . mccarthy, no negotiation yet.

the 14th amendment says the validity of the public debt the united states, authorized by law, including dts occurred for bounties, payments of services, suppressing insurrection, shall not be questioned. to help us better understand the role of the 14th amendment and its potential role in this crisis we are joined by president and ceo of the national constitution center, jeffrey rosen. good morning. guest: good morning. host: the 14th amendment, as we most commonly see it, is used in issues including citizenship, the protection of equal rights and civil rights in states. how does the debt ceiling fit into the 14th amendment? guest: this is such an important conversation and thank you for having me on. after the civil war there is concern among northern republicans that the south will

either try to repudiate the war debt to the north or will get the new union to pay back the southern debt, but not the northern debt. that is covered by the second section of the 14th amendment, the sentence after the one you set, that said the united states nor any state shall pay any debt incurred in rebellion against the united states. but allowing it to be repaid in paper currency rather than gold, which was the obligation of the government of the time, and it was to avoid that possibility of repaying the debt in devalued currency that the 14th amendment

was passed. that language "shall not be questioned" is not entirely solicitous. but the original purpose was to prevent the government from de valuing the debt and ensuring that it would be repaid in gold. to rehearse the economic arguments against devaluation, the democrats feared if the original bonds were repaid in gold, it would be a windfall to wall street, because the bonds may have been sold to speculators at lower cost. by compensating the holders rather than the original holders you are going to transfer money from the original bondholders to wall street. this was the same constitutional

argument that surrounded the creation of the national bank everyone knows from the "hamilton" musical help controversial it was. are you going to give the windfall to speculators that bought bonds at discount when you repay them in gold? that is what was going on. host: in 2023 is there validity to the argument saying the president not paying the country's debt would be unconstitutional based on that small amount of language? guest: it is complicated and there is not a clear answer because this has never been litigated or attempted. attempts to get the president to repudiate the debt began during the clinton years when we started having this regular dispute over the raising of the debt ceiling.

let me give you the arguments on both sides because it has never been tried. the argument in favor of being made by democrats -- although it had been made by republicans during previous disputes under earlier president -- is the language is mandatory and that by creating a debt ceiling statute -- and that dates back to 1917 when congress first created the debt ceiling -- congress was repudiating the debts of the united states and ensuring those owed money would not be paid. that violates the plain language of the amendment. the argument on the others is multifaceted. the first is the amendment prohibits congress from officially repudiating the debt, saying the bondholders can never be paid.

it does not allow the president to act on his own, nor the statute passed in 1917, so the president's job cannot ignore the law. even the 1917 law raises constitutional questions. it is not the president's job to ignore it. that is the strongest argument, he cannot pick and choose. there was a lot more to say but that is the core of it. host: play this out. if the president does try to invoke the 14th amendment in terms of raising the debt ceiling, what does that look like in terms of a constitutional challenge? would it be immediately challenged in the courts and how quickly would go to the appeals process and potentially, the supreme court? guest: great questions.

it is uncharted territory because we have not seen it before. the supreme court can act quickly these days, as we have seen in the debate over the shadow doc. they can try to stop or allow actions it thinks it violates the constitution. we imagine it would get up to the court very quickly. there is one big precedent and an interesting one that would be great for viewers to check out. it is called the perry case. when the u.s. wanted to go off the gold standard it says that all bonds shall be redeemed in gold. 5-4 decision. chief justice charles evans hughes said this is

unconstitutional because congress cannot say that it will not pay back the bonds in gold. nevertheless, there is no remedy allowed because mr. perry is only entitled to the dollar amount, not the weight in gold. this is a huge marbury versus madison case. as to the treasury bonds, congress cannot say they will be paid in gold, but the guy is not entitled to remedy because there is no circulating market for gold and cannot demand he received more money -- receive more money than the bond entitles. host: they were getting a ton of this on constitution.org. what are the most common

questions? guest: the questions you are asking now. can the president raise the debt ceiling on his own? why was the clause originally passed? these are absolutely the right questions. viewers, go to the interactive constitution center's website. it is so meaningful to be able to learn from these experts and make up your own mind. you can go to the website, read the arguments on both sides, read the perry opinion and have this debate you are having. c-span is such a wonderful partner in hosting these debates. you citizens are so good to educate yourselves. host: if your travel plans take you to philadelphia, it is a must stop. jeffrey rosen, president and ceo

at the national constitution center. thank you for joining us here on "washington journal." guest: great to be with you. thank you. host: our opening question is, should the president invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit? (202)-748-8000 if you say yes. (202)-748-8001 if you say no. (202)-748-8002 if you are unsure. we will get to your calls momentarily. we wanted to play the comments of house speaker kevin mccarthy after he left the white house yesterday and spoke with reporters at the capitol. [video clip] >> [indiscernible] >> the productive part is who is in the room? we are not talking over each other. we are not saying, oh, let's

bring something new into discussion. we talked about where we are having disagreements and ideas. to me, that is productive. not progress, but productive. host: to your phone calls. we will start with tony in florida on the yes line. caller: good morning. i just want to say absolutely yes. biden needs to use the 14th amendment. if trump can take his opposition to court, why not biden and can take the maga republicans to court? you have to understand, let's remember who brought the repression. before that it was two other

republicans. they were inept and it hit around the world and hitler took advantage. if we go to second depression, it is going to be horrible to the united states. and you know who is going to be happy? putin and his allies. remember that. three maga republicans want to destroy veteran benefits, social security, medicare, medicaid, you name it. host: do you think those issues would be part of a debt deal? caller: absolutely. the republicans, all they care about is to protect their owners, meaning wealthy people, the 1%. if i were trump, i like my donors because they are rich, powerful, they are billionaires.

look at the supreme court, the african-american. his donors buy his house. host: we will go to the no line. cj says no in minneapolis. caller: good morning. thank you for accepting my call. the reason why i say no is because it reminds me of watergate when the senate was the one that made nixon resign. it was the senate that made ronald reagan make martin luther king's birthday a national holiday. he did not want to do it. they are acting like we have two presidents. the former president says something and they are following him. what this president should do is explain to the american people that it is their job to work

with him, not oppose something this important. this is very important. this should have been done a long time ago. if i was him, i would stand on that and say, no, they are supposed to be behind him. that is my story and i am sticking to it. host: pj calling from south carolina. caller: good morning. i believe the debt ceiling should not be political. period. that's it. if they want to reduce spending, they should do it in the other process, creating budget, etc. to me, we are making it not just complicated but political and that is not right. thank you very much for taking my call. host: the associated press writing about our topic, why

biden is wary of using the 14th amendment to address the crisis. they write that biden has viewed the 14th amendment route as a problematic, untested legal theory to ensure the country can meet financial obligations. the treasury says if congress fails to act before the june 1 date, it could kick the country into a painful recession. still, with the white house and republican legislatives at loggerheads to incur more debt or take spending cuts, it is no surprise the president might be looking at emergency alternatives. here is what the president had to say before yesterday's late afternoon meeting at the white house between the president and kevin mccarthy. [video clip] pres. biden: we both agree default is not on the table.

we have got to get something done here. the consequence would be the american people would have a real kick in the economy. the rest of the world would too. we agree we need to reduce the deficit and i might add that in my first years as president, i reduced it by $1.4 trillion. we talked about the need for bipartisan agreement. we can sell it to our constituencies. we are pretty well divided in the house and senate, so we have got to get something on both sides. we need to cut spending but i think we should be looking at tax loopholes and make sure the wealthy pay their fair share.

we still have disagreements but i think we can get where we have to go. we both know we have a significant responsibility. i will turn it over to the speaker. >> thank you, mr. president. we had a productive conversation yesterday even though he was coming back from the g7 meeting. we have disagreements. we have more revenue than any other time but we agree we need to change the directory and that our debt is too large. at the end of the day, we can find common ground, make the economy stronger, take care of this debt, but more importantly, get the government moving again and make us less dependent upon china and make our appropriations system work. >> make the appropriations work. [laughter] host: comments on social media about our morning topic.

this one says biden will invoke the 14th amendment if you must. after that you will hear scalded cat from the right, how dare he do his duty. republicans would love for this country to default because it would be a buying frenzy for which many backers. they will buy everything up, even the country. the country should not have to endure bankruptcy because of a fascist republican party. the ig testify the taliban is taking the money we are sending to help people during drought and famine. why does congress not stop sending money? this from suki. when your position is my way or the highway, it makes it easy to blame the other guy. why does your party believe blaming the others as a solution? let's hear from susan on the yes line in germantown, maryland. caller: hi. i think he should use the 14th

amendment because mccarthy is going to do nothing to jeopardize the far right position. and if we do not, we are headed for such a massive default it is truly pathetic. i have never seen anything like this, this kind of negotiation before. host: to holly in delaware on the no line. caller: we should not -- he should not invoke the 14th amendment. we are not going to default on our debt and we need to stop this spending. it is ridiculous. there are many things we can cut and if the democrats are so hot on this, than some of the far left people who have stolen our

money, maybe they can kick in. thank you. host: in south carolina, martin is also on the yes line. tell us why. caller: just to double back on things, the first amendment and second amendment are fully used. there is no reason not to use the 14th amendment. i think entitlements is similar to giving tax breaks to the rich and that needs to be turned back in time and president biden should do that to be able to increase the revenue stream. that will reduce our total overall debt in the long run. host: do you think he is going to get takers on the republican side for increasing taxes and revenue? caller: i think he has got to

push it. that is something they can then use in the next cycle of elections. they have got to have the ammunition one way or another. that is what the republicans are doing by pushing this right to the end. they are going to try to use that in the election cycle and i think we need something on the democratic side to push back on it. the democrats need to be a little better. they have almost got to take on the republican persona in the way they approach things. a lot of the times they will just, ok, and be done with it versus put up a fight and do the same way the republicans have in the past and be difficult about things. host: this was a soundbite earlier from kevin mccarthy and he used the word productive.

the washington times uses that in their headline, mccarthy-biden fail on productive talk. house speaker mccarthy and president biden said debt limit talks were productive but failed to deliver a deal as both sides raced to agree on cutting spending and raising the nation's borrowing limit against default deadline nine days away. mr. mccarthy emerged from the talks at the white house saying negotiatorsorepublicans and the administration would "work through the night." let's hear from steve who says no, the president should not use the 14th amendment. steve is in san jose, california. caller: i say no but more importantly, let's prophesies about this a little bit. due to his track record in thinking that he can forgive student loan debt, i prophesie

s that he is going to take it to the extreme minute and proclaim that he is the savior of the nation and he has resolved this issue. which will force republicans to take it to the court. since yellen has already proclaimed june 1, let the republicans get a reversal and have the courts say biden cannot do that. we will, at that time, be in

default and he can proclaim that the republicans have put us in default. that is my comment. host: north carolina is next. edwin, good morning. caller: i think the president should use every power to do this. i worked for the federal government 40 years. the debt ceiling does not work. in the words of ronald reagan, social security trust fund is not a budget item. right now, it has $4 trillion. part of that is for bonds. the biggest amount of money spent on a budget every year's military spending. do we need all of these bombs and planes? i am all for paying people in uniform, because i am a veteran of 24 years in the navy, but you have got to understand, it is

not biden and harris, it is congress. republicans and democrats. the last time i saw a budget bill that was great was during bill clinton when a republican negotiated with the democrats and things got done. social security needs to not be talked about. it is not a budget item. social security trust fund is generated by everybody. as long as unemployment is low, it is going in there. they need to sit down and make real cuts. but if you do not address military spending -- because you could cut every part of the money we give to foreign countries -- and that is a sliver in the budget pie. host: appreciate that, edwin. this is from the wall street journal. an opinion piece saying the phony debt ceiling calamity. the authors write, with the

treasury predicted to run out of cash as early as june 1, the treasury secretary janet yellen has started warning of an economic calamity if congress does not raise the statutory debt limit. according to ms. yellin, whether it is default and or payments for social security recipients, we would simply not have enough cash to meet all of our obligations. the authors say these claims are dangerously misleading. hitting the x date will not cause default on the national debt. debt service payments have a future most other government payments lack. when the government pays off maturing debt the amount subject to the statutory limit declines. this means the government can roll over such obligations, that is, issue new debt to pay off old debt without violating the debt limit. in that piece they write this regarding the 14th amendment. hang social security benefits

and this is legally obligatory. the biden administration can make payments regardless of the debt limit and because these payments would not come at the cost of any other federal payments. otherwise the administration would fail its constitutional duty to execute those statutes faithfully, an argument that would apply without the support of the 14th amendment's public debt clause. here is texas senator ted cruz had to say over the weekend on calls to invoke the 14th a minute. [video clip] >> i think biden's position on the 14th amendment is frivolous. someone else agreed with that was barack obama. the left tried to convince obama to do this and he said, you cannot do this under the constitution. that is a provision that was put in place to say we are going to pay our civil war debts. it refers to the civil

war debt. by the way, joe biden can ensure that we do not default. he has ample authority to do that and to do that right now by saying we are going to pay the interest on the debt. what they want is to not pay the interest. they want to pay the $6 trillion in other government spending and there is nothing in the 14th a minute that gives them the power to do the. -- 14th amendment that gives them the power to do that. for months they would not talk at all and now they say we cannot cut any government spending. shannon, it is a responsible what we are doing to the next generations. to give you an order of magnitude, in trey 17, total government spending was $4 trillion. tax revenues were $3.3 trillion.

fast-forward to today. total government spending has gone from $4 trillion to nearly $7 trillion. we nearly doubled government spending since 2017. tax revenues have gone from $3.3 trillion to write about $5 trillion. we are taking in more taxes but that cannot keep up with the democrats' wild spending. host: conversation this morning about the 14th amendment. here's the piece that applies in this situa section four says the validity of the public debt of the united states authorized by law,, including debtsncurred for pensions, bounties, for services, suppressing insurrection and rebellion, shall not be questioned. our question is should the president use that to raise the debt limit? (202)-748-8000 is the line if you say yes. (202)-748-8001 is the no line.

if you are not sure, that line is (202)-748-8002. on that line, marlene in massachusetts. caller: good morning to you and good morning to all of the viewers watching c-span this morning. i have very mixed feelings about the use of the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit. on the one hand, i think it would be very problematic in the sense that it would be something that would be unprecedented and it would be challenged. which i think would defeat the whole purpose of raising the debt limit in order to pay bills that we have already generated. if i could say one thing briefly. host: yes.

caller: definitely, i think this really should not even be a conversation. we ran up the tally and now the bill is due and we need to pay it, full stop. there should not be any conditions attached. we have done this in the past once before. i fail to see why we cannot do it again. i think what is going on right now with this controversy over the debt ceiling is really nothing more than an attempt by the republican party to politically compromise this president. i think those same it is not a big deal, that this really is not a thing, i think is being

dangerously naive. we have never defaulted on our debt before and i do not think this is something that we as a nation really want to attempt to try. we are risking not only just our economy but the world's economy. i think all of the talking, all of the discussion, should be shoved aside. i think there are legitimate arguments on the other side with respect to spending but that is a separate issue. we should simply pay the bills that we owe. thank you. host: next up is gary who says yes, the president should use the 14th amendment. good morning. caller: good morning.

ted cruz has zero credibility. while texas was going to the crisis they did, he decided to go on vacation. you have no credibility, ted. president biden should raise the debt ceiling. republicans were serious about cutting spending, bring the pentagon into a line by line -- you could cut the defense spending in half for 10 years, raise the taxes from the rich and the big companies. in 10 years you could cut the $32 trillion of debt in half just by doing those two things. host: here is the headline at the state.com. south carolina's tim scott says he is the 2024 presidential candidate the far left fears most. his announcement yesterday in north charleston, south carolina. [video clip] >> to think i have lived at the

closest thing in magic in america is a good education. but the far left has us retreating from excellent in schools. extreme liberals are leading big labor bosses trap millions of kids in failing schools. they are replacing education with indoctrination. they spent covid locking kids out of the classroom and now they are locking kids out of their futures. invited's america -- in biden's america, law enforcement is in retreat. they are ending cash values, demonizing, demoralizing, and defunding the police. i grew up in neighborhoods alongside people who ended up in

jail or seminary -- cemetery. the seminary too. [laughter] we cannot have innocent people at risk. police getting ambushed and attacked and seniors locked in their homes from the time the sun goes down until the sun comes up. joe biden and the radical left are attacking every single rung of the ladder. that is why i'm announcing today that i am running for president of the united states. [cheering] host: south carolina senator tim scott yesterday. couple of comments on the opening question via social media and text. democrats want to take away our second amendment, limit our first amendment, but will use

the constitution any time they can to sidestep congress. tony says, there are many constitutional requirements but none of which instruct the president to seize power and act as president. if biting can do something unilaterally, he should do it. republicans do not hesitate to do the unorthodox. look at mitch mcconnell's record. we will go to travis in west virginia. travis says no, the president should not use the 14th amendment. go ahead. caller: for one, i do not think he can. i do not think he can get by with it. if you would cancel all of these transgender projects and close the border where we are not supporting 10 million or 15 million illegal immigrants, and take some of the covid money back that they have not spent, maybe we would not

have to worry about all of this. there was money there being spent on immoral things that is being wasted. if the democrats would give up some of their pet projects, we would not have this discussion. host: what about that earlier caller who called and said cuts on military spending. howdy feel about that? caller: we are at a time in history where we cannot afford cuts in military. we need to get the transgender junk out. we need to get the wokeism out of there. we cannot afford cuts in the military. you look around the world that what is happening right now, we need to raise their money. we need to give them more and we need to get real men in there

and not drag queens. host: to denver next. denny is on the yes line. caller: of course he should invoke the 14th amend meant. the president should realize the republicans do not negotiate fairly. they are liars and they are cheats. remember what they did with the supreme court justice. every time trump says he is responsible for the supreme court, you realize they stole those picks. they are not a party that honors the word. right now, they are doing hostage negotiations, holding the american public hostage. host: does it feel to you that the rules do not apply? the rules that used to apply do not apply to any party any more? caller: remember what trump said and the republican people have said? it was all right when trump was in office but now he is not an office. that is what they are going to

use. a lot of republican investigations that have taken place the last 10 years were frivolous, a waste of taxpayer money. look at the investigation, hillary clinton was smeared, and now they are going after the biden family. another investigation will result in nothing. they cannot negotiate fairly with the democrats and the president should not negotiate with them at all. they have proven time and again when they said they would not -- we would not pass a supreme court pick. they lied about that. they have justices that lie when they come up for reviews and then they get in office and change things. this is terrible. there is no rule of law anymore. trump is going to get away with committing all the crimes he did.

we are not ever going to convict him. mueller enabled him. host: 20 more minutes of the opening topic on using the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling. if you say yes, the president should do that, (202)-748-8000 is the line. if it is no, (202)-748-8001. if you are unsure, (202)-748-8002. we showed you tim scott's announcement yesterday. another announcement not on capitol hill but in wilmington, the headline from delaware online. senator tom carper to retired from politics after 50 years. a patriot will retire next year, ending a career as a successful politician in the state. 's announcement monday will undoubtedly shakeup the state with an open u.s. senate seat in 2024. back on capitol hill, the

speaker asked about potential revenue increases. here is what he said. [video clip] >> we have been working day in and day out to get to an agreement. . i have been clear from day one -- we are not going to raise taxes. we have more revenue coming into government than any other time in history. only two other times did we have this high a percentage. but we are spending more than any other time. it is a spending problem. we should help people get jobs by having work requirements. we have seen that work time and again. we should find ways that we cap the amount of spending going out because the democrats have spent so much. even joe manchin had thought of the 1% cap. there is a lot of productive ideas that we can, at the end of the day, come to common ground

agreement. host: the speaker on capitol hill yesterday. we will have live coverage of the house this morning on this network on c-span. our other coverage across the networks includes at 10:00 a.m. a look at the biden administration's immigration and border security policies, the judiciary subcommittee hearing from former u.s. border patrol chief scott who served during both biden and trump administration's, and the mother of a woman who was the alleged victim of an ms13 member. that is also streaming at c-span.org. as is the hearing this afternoon at 2:00 p.m. eastern looking at u.s. national security in china. that will be live on c-span2, c-span now, and c-span.org. back to our calls in your

comments of whether the president should invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit. michael is in hagerstown, maryland. caller: hey, bill. this is michael. the question is wrong because the president does not have the ability, according to 14th amendment section five, congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, this article. it is not a presidential thing. i'm glad we have this debt limit. it is the time for us to have a robust talk about expenditure. we have a spending problem and there are so many things we could cut it is unbelievable. he does not have the power to do it and secondly, it is good to have some negotiation about the debt.

host: larry says yes. he is in birmingham, alabama. caller: good morning. it is mighty funny that the situation always comes to a boil when the republicans do not have power. they can do anything they want to in office and justify it. they cannot be trusted. they are liars. they go back on their word and i would like to see the president do whatever he can. these are charges we have already made and it is kind of stupid to go back on your word to pay. if you want to stop spending, you do it in the budget. this is not the place to do it. this is not the program in which to do it under. you cut spending at the budget passing. host: chris is next -- jim is on

the no line. caller: thomas jefferson once said, beware of politicians with your money. the president does not have the authority to raise it. the country is dead broke. they cannot pay one penny of principal, i want you to understand that. we need to use the reserve currency so we can stay on budget. host: jim, you are breaking up a little bit. will go to john and patterson,

new jersey. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: good morning. the republicans are bad people. this is paying your bills time. discussion is when you are on the budget. when you create the budget is when this conversation is discussed on spending. the government should and must pay their bills. the republicans are bad people. we are paying for the bill under the trump administration. the trillions of dollars was increased under the trump

administration and a republican is playing games with the president. the president is cutting $3 trillion out of the budget. why? shame on the democrats. the democrats do not rebuttal the lies the republicans tell. host: the democratic leader yesterday with reporters said he would be open to the idea of freezing spending at current levels. here is hakeem jeffries. [video clip] >> president biden has offered house republicans to freeze spending at current fiscal year levels. that is an inherently reasonable place to be and the extreme maga republicans have rejected it. >> but will you accept it?

>> what i would like to see is what is in president biden's budget proposal, which is an increase in the well-being of the american people, to protect and strengthen social security, to build an economy that works for everyday americans. but the extreme maga republicans have rejected that. i think what has been reasonable is what president biden has put on the table and that has been rejected because apparently, house republicans have said we will accept nothing short of their extreme default on america. >> explain why -- you said what they put on the table is extreme. it sounds like you are playing defense because the speaker came out and said he was rather optimistic. are you putting up the fight for

the left flank for those members that might not vote for anything they might have reached? >> i think that any proposal that potentially offers to freeze spending is not a proposal that has been put into the public domain by the left flank as you articulated,. that is an inherently reasonable effort to find common ground. host: 10 more minutes of your phone calls on our opening topic. john is in virginia and says yes, the president should use the 14th amendment to raise the debt limit. tell us more. caller: i don't understand how the republicans -- the big shots

in the company should pay their fair share and we would not have this debt. a lot of them started the wars. they have nothing to say. they are quiet. and then they get to talking about the border and building the wall. host: to indiana. rick is on the no line. caller: i do not agree with it. democrats are like women, they like to spend their money. the democrats are running this country.

everybody's going to say hi ho hitler. host: hello, john. caller: i do not trust either party. the last gentlemen had it right. they are going to say hitler. this is the government that funded hitler wall street banks incorporation. j.p. morgan, rothchild, rockefeller. they can spend money going to war murdering black and brown people for their oil and resources all over the world so rich white people on wall street can run this government into the ground. host: commentary of biden is losing the debt ceiling showdown but the resolution remains a last-minute deal struck between the white house and speaker mccarthy, which will garner enough bipartisan vote to get through congress. conservatives and progressives

will oppose it. leaders on each side will point to various concessions while declaring victory. the debt ceiling will be raised in washington will collectively head off toward the next regularly scheduled fiscal clip. we have seen movies like this before so the outcome does not feel like a mystery. read more at townhall.com. next up is illinois. troy on the yes line. caller: thank you for taking my call. host: absolutely. caller: i think all of this is everybody needs to understand and remember that a lot of it is fabricated chaos saying we do not have enough money to take care of the poor, take care of the schools, take care of the children. if we had taxes on the

wealthiest part of america, there would be plenty of money to afford to be able to pay for all the things we have. but it is all a game where they keep, over and over again, making a crisis where they do not have enough money. if you would go get the money from the wealthiest americans who are not paying their fair share, there would be plenty of money. if i am paying a certain amount to taxes, there is no reason why these guys are not paying the same percentage. if you did that, you have plenty of money. you would not be in a debt crisis because there is enough money to take care of the things we're supposed to take care of. thank you for taking my call. host: this is from insider late last week. passing the gop debt ceiling bill would be equally as disastrous as default. bernie sanders says he joined 10 democratic colleagues in urging

the president to permanently solve the crisis, urging the president to use the 14th amendment with the validity of the public debt of the united states shall not be questioned. that letter to the president late last week. we will go next to huntington, indiana. mike is on the not sure line. caller: hi. i think what they ought to do is tell congress and the senate they have four years to balance the budget. if they do not, they lose half their pay, gross pay, no retirement, no nothing. that way they get something done. host: force them into doing it. caller: yep.

host: will go to new jersey next. james on the yes line. caller: how you doing? host: fine. thank you. caller: i'm just calling to say that even if president biden were to agree to what the republicans asked for, mccarthy could not get it through the house. i wish joe biden would just go ahead and do what he needs to do, use the 14th amendment, and move the country on. host: video from yesterday's meeting. we will look at other news from the wall street journal. their headline underneath the colorado river behind the hoover dam. states agree to colorado river cuts. states that use the colorado river water agreed to keep two of the main reservoirs from falling to critically low levels.

california, arizona, and nevada would voluntarily cut the use of water from the west river by at least 3 million acre-feet by 2026, including 1.5 million next year. one acre foot is the amount of a typical family that uses in a year. cuts are not expected to have severe impacts on farms or cities but would incrementally add to the involuntary reductions in place. just to let you know as well, we will have a segment on that in the coming days on washington journal. next up is john who is on the no line. john in north carolina, go ahead. caller: i do not think they should cut. if he was able to do that, he will say, i'm gonna spend $50 trillion next year.

i would like to hear somebody say how much it is costing for these illegals per day that we are feeding, clothing, giving a place to stay. but you do not hear that nowhere. i would sure like to hear it. host: to can't, ohio -- kent, ohio and sandy is on the not sure line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think some people are forgetting when we got the stimulus money that was, yay, all right. then we got the cost of living craze. now we are spending too much money. if we were close to default ing, why did they give us all of that? and now to take it away. they have already threatened some of my health care recently this past week because we gave

you too much so now you have to give it back. i do not quite get it. may be should not have gave us that. don't they look ahead like we have to do? host: appreciate your opinion and welcome the conversations this first hour on the debt ceiling, focusing on the 14th amendment. we will now speak with two members of congress from opposite sides of the aisle. we are joined by congressman brad schneider, democrat of illinois. later on, another perspective with freshman republican congressman rich mccormick of georgia. ♪ ♪

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the consequence of not getting this resolved, in a way that i hope brings republicans and democrats together, show the world of the united states pays its bills and we can tackle like challenges. if we don't do that, the consequences are going to be severe not just for the short-term, but for the long term as well. host: have you gotten or do you expect a readout of how that went and where the status of negotiations is now? guest: i haven't gotten a complete readout. i imagine there will be more details at that time. but while there were talks, we are in a race against time. every day that this takes to raise the debt limit, to pay our debts. we have to bring down a deficit,

reduce future generations. but don't do these over a barrel, don't make across-the-board decisions that aren't done with precision and discernment. i think we need to have a different approach to what we are trying to do. host: you are a ways and means committee member. how much do you think raising revenue rates and taxes needs to be part of this conversation? guest: we looked at it a year and a half ago, build back better. the ways and means committee had hearings, laid out a plan to raise revenue to pay for the things we were talking about. we have to pay for the things we do as a government. whether that is paying for health care, infrastructure, defense and national security. these are all things that the world has to recognize the united states has the capacity and the will to pay for in a responsible way. we certainly could do that a year and a half ago and i think

we will find a way to do it again. host: brad schneider of illinois, we welcome your calls and comments. democrats line, (202) 748-8000. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. independent and others, (202) 748-8002. your mind, what do you see as the ultimate solution? a jusco track barrel? we see seemingly opening the door for intentional freeze of spending limits to what they currently are. how do you see it? guest: i wish we had gone with a clean bill and moved to doing that. there is legislation waiting to be addressed in ways and means. we need to talk about addressing our spending, as i mentioned. lowering the deficit. we can't sustain multi trillion dollar deficits year after year.

the debt will have gone to $50 trillion. that's just not a fair deal to put onto our kids and our grandkids. we need to be having those conversations today. i'd like to have them anyway were both sides are sitting at the table talking about the priorities of the country and how to move forward to address that. host: even for members of the house with five terms, has that ever happened? where you can sit down outside of a debt negotiation, over the barrel moment as you say, to have that kind of conversation? guest: we have conversations like that on a regular basis, a bipartisan conversation last night talking about spending and budget issues, a number of conversations taking place. the challenge is getting across the finish line to a place where bills can get to the committee, come to the floor and have a vote and get to the president's

desk. host: we really haven't gotten even to that phase. it is now nearly june of 2023 in terms of the appropriations board -- for the next fiscal year. but sitting here since the end of may, we should be having discussions about what our priorities for fiscal year 2024 are. where are we going to spend the money, get the revenue to fund those programs? that conversation can happen until we get past this debt limit crisis. >> you come from north of chicago, but on this, what are your constituents saying to you about this? >> i think it is fairly moderate fiscally. everywhere i go, whether it is in more affluent communities, more economically challenged, they are saying the same thing.

don't bankrupt the country. don't default on the debt. we have the resources to pay for it. we need to address inflation, which is coming down, but we need to make sure our schools are educating our kids. covid had a real negative impact on our kids. if we are going to compete, we need to be prepared for that economy for the 21st century. these are the kitchen table issues people are worried about. host: i understand you are the cochair of what is called the congressional abraham accords. tell us about that and your goal. guest: the abraham accords are in agreement between israel and initially, the united arab emirates. morocco joined. sudan is in the process and we

are hoping to expand. the middle east is an important region. we see challenges with their support of terrorism. we need to work with our allies. the abraham accords are part of that process, an opportunity to bring peace to the region and prosperity to the people who live there. host: the court -- abraham accords or created in support finally working to expand? >> absolutely. president trump facilitate the accords. they were signed on the white house lawn in 2020. you seen this administration carry it forward. discussion last week that there is hope, maybe we can bring saudi arabia into the accords. but that doesn't happen without the involvement of the united states. seven countries came together on a regular basis on a variety of

issues. so yes, the united states committee is still important. host: you are also a member of the foreign services committee. forte affairs committee, i should say. this get to the calls and comments for the congressman. we will go to richard and augustine, georgia. go ahead. caller: good morning, congressman. guest: good morning. caller: i have a problem with wasteful spending in the defense department. i am an honorable discharge veteran who has been in the military reserves. when is the government really going to crack down on wasteful spending? and also, as far as taking care of american people, we need to realize that welfare is a good

idea, but how are the parents going to have the children taken care of while they are at work? and also, please, help out the veterans more than what the ways and means committee is doing. the democrat party needs to learn how to get the message out on what the true and successful bipartisan bills that president biden has done. could you please comment on the wasteful spending in the military? host: richard, thanks for the call. guest: richard, thank you for your service to our nation. i have the privilege of representing suburbs of chicago that include north chicago, great lakes. every navy recruit, there are district for basic training navy service, so i'm grateful for you and every american who put on the uniform. and look, no one should be supportive of wasteful spending. we should have that concern not just in the military, but in

every single area of government. this is why it is so important to hold the administration at different agencies to account, make sure that they are spending taxpayer dollars in the wisest and most responsible way. every dollar wasted on defense is a dollar that is not going to the national interest of the men and women who are serving our country. so we definitely need to do that. with respect to your point about services and provisions, everyone in this country should have the opportunity to pursue a career of their choosing. to be able to provide for their family, put food on their table, a roof over their head, etc. we need to do more along the lines of providing the services that make that possible. you mentioned childcare. childcare is prohibitively expensive and most areas of the country. in some areas, not even available. we need to make it easier for people to be able to have

confidence that the children will be --. host: i think he is also talking about the potential for more work requirements for some social programs than in the ultimate debt deal. what is your view on that? guest: this is something we had a lot of discussion about in the last century with resident clinton and speaker newt gingrich were negotiating. most of the people i represent want to get to work. they are looking for ways to provide for their families. it is hard to find childcare, transportation. we need to be providing that safety net so these people won't fall through the cracks. so they can put food on the table. we need to continue to provide the training and the resources to people to get jobs. every employer in my district is looking for people. we don't have a shortage of jobs at the moment, we have a shortage of workers and we need

to create opportunities for people to get to work. host: from illinois next, jim is on the independent line. caller: good morning, how are you doing today? guest: i'm good, how are you? caller: i have a few points listening to the congressman. he does represent a lot of illinois. some of the concerns i have are things that he says, of course. my grandfather used to have a seeing -- saying. he would say saying it doesn't make it so. the point was brought up about wasteful spending. it was brought up that there is somewhere in the neighborhood of $3 billion mistake in the money that is being sent to ukraine.

$3 billion accounting error. which is preposterous on its face. one of the reasons for that mistake is accounting trickery. they want additional money for ukraine. we need more money, etc. this is silliness. we have such a problem with spending. the infrastructure bill that is touted, the government has absolutely nothing to do with it. that is a state function. it is not a federal function. federal dollars do not go into local projects.

host: you made your point on a couple of issues. congressman schneider? guest: thanks for the question. i share your concern about the $3 billion accounting error, that is not insignificant. that is why i believe in transparency and accountability. as a government, as congress, we need to lay out what it is that we intend to invest in, and make sure that those dollars are spent wisely and we have the oversight and accountability afterwards to make sure what we intended is what actually happens. but with respect to infrastructure and with all due respect, federal money is absolutely critical for local governments to build up the infrastructure we are talking about an illinois has $17 billion coming in. that is for roads and bridges. illinois leads the country in the number of bridges that are in dangerous conditions.

for billion dollars coming in of federal money masked by local and state money to rebuild these bridges. it is not just bridges, it is roadways. it is stormwater management. things that are being affected by age, but also by the impact of climate change, the demands on many of the systems. the bipartisan infrastructure investment and jobs act is making these investments that are going to pay dividends in the future. host: on the debt ceiling negotiations, where are you in terms of the idea of loosening some energy requirements for potential exporters of energy? guest: we have to absolutely consider that as part of anything we do going forward. it should not be part of the debt ceiling itself. we should pay our bills. but if we are going to -- our

bills, we need to triple our distribution in this country to provide the electrical grid that reduction in greenhouse gases laid out for the next decade and into the future. that is not a simple project. it is not something that we can wait and hope will change. we have to design the process today or get those projects up and running to get those lines builds. we need reform on electricity, on resources, but we have to do it with the guardrails, the guidelines in place that protect things typically left out of the conversation. we can do it the right way. time is money. speed does matter. host: punted david cullen from florida. david, the republican line, go ahead. caller: i have a comment for

representative schneider and also a question. he mentioned he represents the great lakes naval area in illinois. and i just want to say thank you for shouting that out. a lot of great sailors have come through the great lakes naval base at one time or another. and also, my question for congressman schneider, you mentioned we can't be doing these trillion dollar deficits in the budget year after year, or now multi trillion with last year's budget. he mentioned that we've got to address this. well, what better time to address it than now? thank you. guest: david, i couldn't agree with you more, now is exactly the time to do it. we borrowed a lot of money

during the covid pandemic, and that was an emergency. we were grabbing blankets to put out a wildfire. we do the blankets had holes, but that is the best way we had at the time. we lost a million lives, communities were affected, our kids are still paying the price. but as the economy has recovered and the american economy has recovered faster than any economy in the world because of decisions we made, we need to be saying it is alright, we got through the crisis, what can we do today to make sure that we have a better future tomorrow? but that includes we don't cut investment in education, for example. we need to be catching up from the time lost to make sure we get a lead for the future. there are hospitals and medical providers, medical professionals who really endured quite a bit

during the pandemic. as we move to the next phase of this post-pandemic period, how do we tell them this is a great example to build on, make sure that the access we provided the telemedicine in the pandemic continues in the future? how do we use that to bring down the cost of health care? one of the single largest expenses we have as a nation, we are spending more than other countries. let's figure out how to raise our quality and access. host: democrats line. caller: good morning. during the obama administration, there was a plan that was put forth that was going to get rid of duplications of regulations and services. it seemed to disappear, and that seems to be something that would satisfy both sides of the aisle, having calls for businesses and cutting regulation cost.

whatever happened to that plan? guest: great question. i'm not sure what happened to that plan. i would argue we should always be looking for opportunities to streamline processes, reduce costs, inconsistencies and complexity. i came to congress a long time ago, and as life insurance, we regulated the state governments, and we had three different regulatory bodies that issued conflicting rules. and that made our job that much more difficult. we should be consistently looking at regulations in our areas, saying are there ways to achieve what we want to achieve more efficiently or with more simplicity, making it easier for the american people to continue to provide services, but do it

in a safe and more efficient way. host: what are your views of the republican proposal to call back some of the money that was already authorized for the irs expansion? >> we've had this conversation quite a bit. it is estimated that the tax gap, which is not money that would come from new laws, but is money that is just sitting unpaid, is $1 trillion. that is provided by trump's irs commissioner. part of the reason that that money is paid sometimes is simple errors that once corrected, people say i made a mistake and they pay with ao. -- what theyowe. but often times it is very complicated tax structures, partnerships, actual entities who try to evade -- not just avoid, but evade the taxes that they owe.

we are going to have a lot of retirement over the next 10 years, people looking for the irs at retirement age. we also need to make sure we have people with skills and expertise to hold those who should be paying taxes. we are talking people who are making millions of dollars. that is money the government should be able to count on. it is not raising taxes, is collecting taxes that everyone agreed, but people are just not paying what they owe. host: certainly part of the debt ceiling plan which passed in the house would raise the debt ceiling moving into 2024, reduce future spendings, withhold spendings, but in the future spending 1% annually, recover unspent covid-19 funding. green energy programs. on the covid-19 front, it seems

like the one thing that republicans and democrats can agree on. what is your view? guest: i think we can agree on then if we do it in a thoughtful way. we were putting blankets on wildfires. we should reevaluate. some money hasn't been spent because it is a timing issue. we shouldn't be taking money for purposes related to covid that haven't been paid off yet. the other money, i'm totally comfortable with saying that was money that had a specific purpose that didn't come to fruition. let's repurpose that money in a way that isn't saying we have to --, but put it toward the areas were as a country, democrats and republicans can agree on the priorities. host: reno, nevada, republican

line. caller: good morning, thank you for your time. i know everyone is really passionate on the show. i wanted to talk to mr. schneider. i just wanted to say that you mentioned about jobs and the electrical grid being three times as big and you also mentioned earlier people needing to provide for a family. and also, the american economy is really broken. there are jobs, but people cannot afford to own homes. i would say that you are both probably homeowners and you make some money. at the money is an idea. the idea that we are spending millions or rescuing things, the federal government needs to be

imposing on the people, not representing the people. that collar early who said that saying it doesn't make it so, that is really true. if you are 20, it has been your whole life. i would say the last real, honest president we have was from georgia, and i think you with your salary could do this. i mean please, sir. if the jobs can't pay for people to own homes, i've worked. i've had a decent salary. no benefits, no retirements. i won't put that company's name on because they should be ashamed of themselves. god bless you. do some work. i'd like to hear your response. guest: thanks, and i appreciate your call, your question and your passion.

the american dream is being able to pursue whatever it is that you're passionate about, achieve your aspirations. earn some money, have a home, raise a family. that is the dream through the history of our country. a couple of basic principles. no one should be working full-time in this country and living in poverty. if i go into a community, wherever it is, my district or across the country, you can tell where there is a higher percentage of homeownership. people take pride not just in their own property, but the community they're trying to develop with their neighbors and folks within that community. it is something that we should be promoting. that's why i believe in providing -- for first-time homebuyers, jobs that provide an income. we are having a crisis in this country right now with a shortage of homes at all levels, but in particular, at the entry

level. that first home for a young family to get into, to grow their family, to develop the traditions that make for a happy life and getting their kids a start, achieve their success and repeat the cycle. that is something we need to do a much better job on, something we talk about quite a bit in the ways and means committee. you didn't ask about this, but retirement as well. for working a lifetime in whatever career someone chooses, they should be able to count on having a secure retirement. that is why social security is so important. in a bipartisan fashion, it makes it easier for people to save for retirement. host: congressman brad schneider of illinois, thanks for being

with us. we will get another perspective on the debt ceiling and other issues facing congress, the house in particular. we are joined next by a republican from georgia, rich mccormick will be here in the program. we will talk about the role that oil and gas plays in the debt limit talks. that is ahead. there is also a proposal to overhaul the -- process. >> since 1979, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors,

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if you are enjoying book tv, sign-up for our newsletter using the qr code on the screen to receive a schedule of programs, discussions, book schedules and more. book tv every sunday on c-span two or anytime online at book tv.org. television for serious readers. washington journal continues. host: our next guest is congressman rich mccormick, republican of the six district in georgia, north atlantic. here he is to talk about the debt ceiling discussions and also issues facing congress and the house. but start with the debt ceiling. do you think that there will be mandatory spending caps, that levels will be capped regardless of the outcome at fiscal year 2022 levels? guest: when we came up with that plan, i was asked is this a

starting point or is this the line in the sand? republican caucus just from that, listening to the speaker at the table with the president, it was our main objective. this is a starting point. but where we are going to end up debating is where is our line in the sand? where isn't it going to be? what is it going to be? how much do we spend? is it going to be something else? a lot of people care about different things. when the president has his submission, we can have a real debate over what to do next. host: they met late yesterday at the white house. we heard some comments from the speaker afterwards. the republican caucus in the house been yet briefed on with the status of negotiations is?

guest: today at 9:00 speaker will be speaking about his negotiations. host: what is your priority in all of this? guest: when i start looking at the debt ceiling and where we've been historically, i researched where we've been before, i we've seen spending when he compared to ratios. recently, you could make a case for good reason but quite frankly, how much is actually spent versus everything else, i don't know if it was for good reason, but i know we are on a trajectory that is unsustainable. there is no way we can have an increase in spending and deficits and not hamper our future generations. this is where the hard line in the sand is being drawn. we have to do something control spending. host: why do you think it is difficult both in the republican house and democrat house as well for this conversation naturally

take place and get things done? outside of a potential crisis moment like they say about the june 1 deadline. guest: it is new to congress, but not new to observing politics. the unfortunate realities of our political system. you can say that we don't change dramatically is why we have a house, a government designed to change from a knee-jerk reaction. it was always meant to be in incrementally changing nation. the constitution is very difficult to modify, but it can be modified as needed. it is very hard to be a visionary and bring everybody else that same point. and so we end up being reactionary instead and in this case, we have an emergency and you're going to see the same thing in health care in the near future.

host: our guest is not only a congressman from georgia but a medical doctor and a 20 year veteran of the marines and u.s. navy. phone lines are the same as they were in the previous segment. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. and for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. with that, with your military background, you are serving among other things on the committee. what are your priorities and that committee? guest: i just got back from luxembourg. one thing i really appreciate is that we are leaders in the world. whether we want to be, we are tied with nations all around the world. people look to us for leadership. in nato, people constantly give us props for leading into the next generation alliances and

economic ties. we have massive public ties in the wto. it got me to read a lot more stuff on how china is cheating away to $52 trillion of debt. we have a federal reserve that we have to pay interest on. and so spending money all around the world, that has already been disruptive to the marketplace. host: looking at horrific views in the news of disruption of the city of bock mood -- bakmut in ukraine, the russians claiming that the city has fallen. what do you see at the trajectory of the future of u.s. to ukraine? guest: just like any war, i've

looked at past battles and wars that we fought in the united states. it always comes down to it is going to work until we decide it is not going to work. when there's conflicts we do very well. when it is gone, we seen it with vietnam, with afghanistan. i'm very worried that over time, people lose the stomach for war. that's why it is important to bring into a rapid conclusion as fast as possible. in ukraine, i understand the budapest accord, i understand the obligation to a country to give up its arms, the third-largest nuclear power in the world and they gave them up with the understanding that the united kingdom and ostend russia would protect them. ironically, russia. understand that the universally decided to support that. and to help the alliance grow. and to watch us all stand up

against a russian invasion of europe. so we are doing exactly what we are supposed to, but it is very important that we bring this to as rapid a conclusion as possible. host: in the first hour, talking about spending, cutting defense spending. what is your view on that? >> this is a dangerous time in the world are we will be surpassed by china in the next five years almost certainly. even if we increase, is very hard to keep up with a country by spending excess. they have twice as much debt as us. how do you compete with that in a fair way? when you have a country that is trying to protect itself all over the world, and also in the western hemisphere. that should worry people. that is in our hemisphere. of course, this is not the right

time to be thinking like that. as very dangerous and shortsighted. host: what do you think china's short-term goal is? guest: i don't think it is a short term, i think is very much a long-term goal. short-term, and want to be a world power. they want to supplant us economically, strategically, militarily. and they are doing it in many ways. host: our guest is cognitive and rich mccormick from the six district in georgia. our first caller on the democrats line. you are on. go ahead. caller: hello, can you hear me? ok. every -- has two sides, assets and liabilities. mccarthy, all he wants to talk about the liabilities, what we owe.

i think we need to talk about the money coming in. you don't remember, but i do, i remember the eisenhower administration was 90%. biden says that the billionaires and millionaires in america pay an average of 8% income tax. i just think that maybe the tax rates, bring the money in and get this deficit pay down. what do you think about that? guest: i think that the upper tax bracket pays the majority of the taxes. we've shown that not just historically, but in modern times. the fact of the matter is you have more of an opportunity to become a billionaire or america and america than anywhere else in the world because of the way our economics are. one of the things i'm concerned

about is the way we approach this. you can make all the tax dollars in the world, but the billionaires a very good at avoiding tax laws. they have very good people doing accounting to avoid being taxed matter what. you can make a point that there are way more billionaires given way more money to democrats and republicans and yet the democrats are talking about attacking the billionaires. i don't really think it is an honest conversation to begin with. if you really want a fair tax, get a flat tax or a tax based on consumption and then you will avoid all the loopholes that they seem to be able to write into the legislation to begin with. host: all those loopholes, that money and that 80 and b -- $80 billion that was proposed, a lot of that funding was to go to people to look into folks avoiding taxes. guest: if you raise 87,000 now as rates, the leaders had with

accounting degrees. the majority of accountants can't do their taxes right because it is that complex. you can't tell me by adding more regulation, more taxes, you are going to slow it down. your accountant, when you have to defend yourself against the united states government, we are in trouble. to simplify this. we need to actually give people advantages by having these particular -- and thinking something simple. host: republican line in okeechobee, florida. hi there. caller: good morning, senator. you're not going to like what i'm going to say. i'm a republican since 1968, i believe.

you are sitting there talking like america has got --, you keep picking on china, russia, everybody in this country. like your angels? our country, we are greedy people, all of us. greedy and warmongers. we shouldn't even be in ukraine, and why aren't the republicans actually finding out what is the deal between biden and ukraine? they've been increase for years now. see you guys need to get your stuff together. as soon as mccarthy goes, we need to get somebody in there. you need to get some balls. host: congressman, what is your reaction? guest: i think anybody who knows

the marines knows we have cojones. i don't think anybody doubts we would get our lives for our country. that is why am here. i've been here for four months and we've done what we said we are going to do. we stood up to the people we need to stand up to and we've been part of the most effective congress we had in the last two decades. remember that 70% of congress is from the last six years and we've done things this congress -- as far as a whole warmonger thing, we did not start the war in ukraine. keep that in mind. and we don't have troops on the ground over there. we are giving aid with munitions largely that would have been decommissioned over time anyways. quite frankly, one thing that we have done is stuck to our word. i don't think anybody would say hey, the marines don't stick to their word. semper fidelis means always faithful. if you give your word that

you're going to do something, you should do it and finish what you start. that is having cojones. host: robert in connecticut, go ahead. caller: good morning, sir. i am an ex-marine disabled veteran, and i do have balls. guest: [laughter] caller: the question i have, sir, i was in vietnam and i like to that air support. now i want to know, given the f-16s, the air support, i will listen to your name offline. guest: thank you for your service, welcome home, semper fidelis. you built the shoulders that i stood on, and i thank you for that, i take that very seriously. i served in korea, i served overseas in korea, afghanistan,

africa. i do believe that having closer support is important and i would love to see if we could get any sort of air superiority. we are a little ways off because it takes a long time to get enough parts sufficient with strategy to make an impact. but i understand why they wanted. it is a lot of investment and i think we are on the right track. host: what made you want to continue public service in the halls of congress? guest: just like the military, it is a calling. there is this irresistible urge to do something. that first spurred me to act.

i was just upset with the way we were treating this. and then the bureaucracy took it immediately, so we continue to fight those fights. host: onto denver, up next is manning on the democrats line. caller: first of all, thank you for your service. one of the debt ceiling in one ukraine. your president, mr. trump, he keeps saying that he wants nothing to do with it. also, on the debt ceiling, when he was president, he said you can't argue about it, you've got to raise it. but what happens now? i look at the vice president i would tell you we will cut everything you want. tax callbacks for the superrich.

you got to raise revenue, you've got to cut. that is the only way, and you guys know it. thank you. host: are you still there? caller: yes. the question on ukraine, how is it that president trump says that he could ended in 24 hours? how could he do that? what is his connection that he is so confident he could do something like that? guest: i'll address the first thing first. we've done a poor job even when we were in charge of the house, senate, presidency. we've done a poor job of that historically. i can tell you that we didn't take it seriously. the best time to take that seriously is when you have a democratic president and republican congress. you saw what happened with bill clinton and newt gingrich.

this is the time to do something about it. i can't speak for congress and why they didn't take it seriously, but i can tell you deficits we will never be able to recover, never be able to repay. not even the debt which we know we can't pay, but the interest level debt. when you talk about raising taxes, people forget that when you raise taxes, a lot of times you get less revenue. we have to have a conversation about economics. historically, when you have massive tax increases, people start spending. people stop investing. people stop importing the same income and pretty soon you realize that you have a weaker economy with less taxes as revenue and you just slow down the economy, paying more money out. it is not as simple as saying

we're going to tax the rich. we have to be very, very deliberate when we face the realities of our economy. as far as ukraine goes, it's very easy to say what you would do until you are there. quite frankly it is a complex issue because we are talking about somebody else fighting the war, not us. we are giving supplies and aid to a country but quite frankly, we are not fighting the war. i've talked to them that an instant of logistics, i understand that they probably have better accountability than any time we've had in afghanistan, in my experience. it is very important to realize that war is not a simple thing you can solve in 24 hours. that's not how it works. two decades, $2 trillion.

traumatic brain injuries. years away from our families. there were several presidents involved in that war. thinking they are going to solve something more complex is not realistic. host: a headline from georgia's regional cherokee tribune, we've got to get real about the national debt. what are you hearing from others in your constituents on their priorities? what do they want, what would they like to make sure you don't touch? guest: people are very frustrated at paying people to stay home. we've had a lot of talks about this recently. this is very gets dicey because if you're required to work 20 hours they start to price out because they are making too much money to qualify. so why don't we get them back to work if you are able-bodied? if you are a person who cannot live off the government, but

work on their own. we've been trying to kick this can down the road for a long time. we need to have a very hard talk about what the government is responsible for. host: republican line in maryland, go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. i am concerned about the deficit. i don't understand why our government is ignoring the border. if a nation can control their border, they will go under. we are wasting money, letting these people come into the new york governor saying how we are not resolving them. i can understand why the kit just take those people back to the border.

we wouldn't have that problem anymore. everything is ukraine. it seems to me that -- i'm an older person, i'm a senior citizen. there way of winning the war is surprised. he publicize everything they are going to do in advance so we give the opposition a position to position themselves to counter it. i mean, you need to not do that. why are we putting everything out in the news for russia to be able to position themselves to counter? it is stupid. host: gloria we talked several times on ukraine. do you want to touch on the border? guest: the talk about how he publicize everything, you are right. in afghanistan, i hated that i special operations the day after were already talking about what

they did. i think we've all gotten very starstruck. but let's get back to the debt. sorry, the border. quite frankly, we've had a massive problem like we've never experienced. when i was in the court, watching people come across the border at nighttime, they would get chased out and they be arrested or whatever. but this has been going on for decades and we have kind of turned a blind eye to it. there are so many more people, we are seeing massive amounts of tariffs being cut. a massive amount of people we can even capture. over half that just disappeared, we have no idea where they are. people coming here with diseases that are not curable, so they are going to the er and being released and now they need

dialysis twice a week for the last -- rest of their lives. by the way, your medicaid payments will pay for those people who come here with heart failure, with heart problems, with cancer, with diabetes. that is going to come out of your diagnostics. you can say i'm ok with that, but i you ok with forcing simply else to pay for that bill? quite frankly, the democrats thought these people coming across the building the republicans, they would be saying how dare you let these people in here? many of them are bringing massive amounts of fentanyl, disease, child trafficking in record numbers. 110,000 people last year died from drugs brought across the southern border. quite frankly they're going to come across the border and vote democrat and that is why they are using taxpayer dollars to pay for somebody else's votes. host: florida, independent line.

caller: good morning. i have a question and a comment. so let me go to my comment first. and that is when are we going to address the debt? we know what happens. when people stand there and tell them -- tell you you're pushing grandma over the cliff, people refused to stop any spending because any spending is seen as racist. and i'm black. organist something-ist, for it is killing grandma. let's start addressing debt when it comes into our focus, which is now. has anybody told chuck schumer that the senate has a rover legislation? where is the? where is the senate?

why did the president discussing this with the speaker? the house passed a bill. i'm guest: guest: going to start with that second comment first, if you don't mind. we did our job. we actually came up with a solution and we passed it. a very narrow majority, that we couldn't do with -- 30. i always tell my kids, look, you are only responsible for yourself. the senate needs to do their job. there is always something good to spend our money on. if you fulfill everything the democrats want to spend money on this year, next year they would be back with more. there is always somebody else who needs help. quite frankly, the government

does not have accountability. we don't see of people are doing better. we just keep plugging in money. it's an endless cycle of dependency. philanthropy, churches, community organizations, you will have a better representation of the people. they will watch and determine the continued applications of the money. we don't have that accountability. that is why it's dangerous for the government to be involved in philanthropy and set of governing people and creating opportunity. host: georgia 6th congressional district is represented by rich mccormick. thank you for being with us on the program. guest: it is a pleasure to be here. host: coming up, kelsey brugger of e&e news. we will talk about the potential role of oil and gas issues are playing in the debt limit debate discussion and the opposable to overhaul the permitting process.

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continues. host: clear joints now by kelsey brugger, they reported with e&e news --a reporter with e&e news the talk about the imaging permitting process and the how that plays into the debt limit talks. kelsey brugger, give us some background on how permitting works for one seeking to drill for energy or expand the electrical grid. guest: sure. permitting reform is this term that makes people's eyes glaze over but it's a super significant thing for producing all kinds of energy, renewables and fossil fuels all over the country. the fight ever permitting reform goes back years. republicans have long wanted to overhaul the process. they say this wa -- there is way too much red tape. progressives have worried taking changes to landmark environment the laws like national policy act or the endangered species

act would further burden communities, often communities of color and low-income communities that have been on the front lines of polluting industries for decades. this fight has been going on a long time. it erected last year with the passage of the inflation reduction act. the white house and congressional leaders made a promise to swing votes. joe manchin of west virginia said if you support this major democratic climate legislation we will tackle permitting reform in some capacity. there is interest from democrats as well. the white house needs to achieve its climate goals by building a lot of renewables in the coming years. a lot of people think you will need to speed up the process. we are talking about environmental review to build anything from a highway, a

bridge, solar, wind, offshore wind. all kinds of projects. host: the principal agencies involved in the process? guest: there are tons of federal agencies. that is part of the issue. if you have a hydrologist in colorado who is reviewing a permit and it has to go from a lot of different agencies, that can take time. invite them lists argue it should -- environmentalists are argue which should take time. host: what the republicans want most? this goes back to the inflation reduction act passage last year. the republicans and joe manchin, what is at the top of the list on reform? guest: joe manchin had this bill

that had a lot of changes to the national environment of policy act, time limits, coordination between agencies. one federal decision, something the trump administration initiated limits judicial review. big issue is that these projects can be challenged in court. he had a bill that had some of those provisions. republicans thought it did not go far enough. the republicans fought his permitting bill last year, which is why it did not pass. it was attached to spending bills. i think one crucial piece was that joe manchin included a provision that would have tried to reprove the mountain valley pipeline that runs through his home state of west virginia. republicans were like we don't want to give this project special treatment.

we want to overhaul the system so it works all projects. politically tricky if one lawmaker gets -- host: on that pipeline, was part of that recently approved? guest: there are a lot of different approvals. there have been some news on that lately. the administration came out and said this is a significant project we want to see completed. it is tied up in court. that project is not complete yet. host: our guest is with kelsey brugger from e&e news. we are talking about energy permitting reform and how it plays into the debt ceiling discussions. the lines are (202) 748-8000 for the democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for independents and others,

(202) 748-8002. the headline of one of your pieces at e&e news, permitting and play as the white house debt talks resume. how specifically would it be in play? would there be legislation in the debt ceiling deal or just further kick the can down the road and say yes, we promise we will address permitting reform? guest: it could be both. what kevin mccarthy came back to the capitol last night and said permitting is still in play. it is something the white house wants, republicans want. they think they can maybe get some low hanging fruit, timelines and judicial review pieces. he said it's possible they take two bites of the apple approach. they handle easy stuff now but then maybe down the line they talk about transmission, which

is something democrats want for renewables. that is a more complicated discussion about cost allocation. some people have pushed back against that. a senator said we get one shot. we will not be talking about this if there is something attached to the debt ceiling bill. there is a lot of skepticism that approach would pan out. mccarthy said he would be committed. he told one of my colleagues and he said we need to build something. we need to build things in america. he says he is committed. we will see. host: the house and the house republicans passed hr-1, the lower energy cost act. does that have any future in the senate? guest: it was republicans' energy package represent them

putting a stake in the ground saying this is what we want. we want more regular quarterly oil and gas. there was a lot of permitting stuff included that was authored by congressman garrett graves of louisiana who has been closely involved in negotiations with the house. chuck schumer said this is dead on arrival. democrats have dismissed this as an industry wishlist and something for the oil and gas industry. they said no. it is an opening bid sort of bill. host: you mentioned the biden administration's ambitious climate goals. what are their top priorities for permitting reform? what did they want to change most quickly and get done? guest: john podesta, top climate advisor the white house actually

said -- he outlined an 11 point plan of things the white house would like to see. he -- the focus for democrats is certainly on renewables and transmission lines, offshore wind. divide in administration has made a pledge to build out 30 gigawatts of offshore wind off the east coast. that is where the white house is. podesta said we support the bill. it is not perfect or everything we want but in the spirit of compromise we are willing to strike a deal. comments like that left progressives pushing back against this debt ceiling negotiation and the idea that permitting could be included. they are concerned about how far the bill will go. host: a word from senator

manchin on this issue? guest: senator manchin continues to say he wants to do permitting reform and that he is going to continue to -- he has had hearings on it. his position is we need to get this done and i don't care what bill it is attached to. he also separately said he would try to get a bill that would combine four 45 permitting bills in the senate that are out there. senators who all lead energy and environment committees. there are elements he thinks they could come up with some kind of compromise bill that he wants to see on the floor before the summer recess that might be very ambitious but that is happening at the same time but

separately. host: our guest is kelsey brugger, a reporter for e&e news . she's been covering environ until issues since 2018. let's go first of bill in albany, new york on the republican line. caller: thank you. i have a question. i am trying to use common sense and not be political. when we were producing are a oil and refining it in the united states as best we could we were paying maybe two dollars 11 since for gallon. -- $2.11 per gallon. why the new admits ration in and said, ok, we are not going to reduce gas in the united states. we are going to buy it in opec,

the middle east, venezuela, russia, and stop the permitting and the drilling here and the refineries, the clean refineries here. instead of using something new like electric cars -- nothing was ready to take its place. we are using oil from dirtier refineries and is costing more money for companies to go get it overseas and bring in here. am i wrong? gas went up. since gas went up it seems like we have had all these problems. everything has gone up. you are talking $45 a gallon. -- four or five dollars a gallon. please help me out to understand if that is the case and can we get back to producing it here the way it was being produced. guest: thanks, bill.

you touch on a lot of interesting points. one piece about price is the price of gasoline and oil you pay at the pump is an international price. that is not something that is set here. it has to do with production, supply and demand throughout the country and throughout the world. when we talk about president biden and where the white house is on drilling, it gets to be a complicated picture. interior secretary deb haaland has addressed this recently at recent hearings. production of oil and gas on federal lands is at an all-time high. the market of oil is international. it is produced here, refined elsewhere, it comes back. we are building out more liquefied natural gas exports.

we are exporting a lot. it is super complicated. i understand why people are may be like very confused by it. you touched on something that is right, the price of gasoline does impact all kinds of other prices and services and businesses. we have heard lately researchers that the international energy -- expects it to stabilize in the next two years. it is a complicated -- host: are we still producing most of our gasoline domestically in the u.s.? guest: we are producing. we are exporting more than we are using. host: nick in rochester, minnesota on the independent line. caller: good morning. one comment and one observation

and then i have a question. i own stock in an oil company in texas and is doing great so i'm making a ton of money. all the people complaining about the gas, i'm doing ok on my stock. how many permits have been issued and are not being utilized by oil companies? shouldn't they just sit on a permit and not utilize it in hopes at some point in time gas will be even more -- oil is more scarce and they can make more money? guest: this is something that became a political hot potato maybe six months to a year ago in terms of the approved permits. the white house cap saying there are 9000 approved permits. oil companies are not drilling or producing. i think they walked that back and had a calculation error issue.

the numbers that now is closer to 6000. that is also something that has a lot of different factors that go into when you can do surveying for oil, when you can drill for oil. host: karen on the democrats line in newburgh, maryland. caller: good morning. for politicians and their drunken spending. our debt reached his limit decades ago. all this talk about default, our veterans will be paid. the important things this government needs to find, the business will be paid for. these people are lying to you so they can continue to drunken spending. enough is enough. my children don't even want to have children because what is

the point. there is too much trouble, too much debt, too much division, too much bull crap going on in this country. host: kelsey brugger, in terms of the permits that are issued, is there a view that expanding permitting also would increase government revenues for opening up those oil leases or allowing projects to go through? guest: you mean like royalty rates? host: yeah. guest: sure, yeah. it depends on what we are talking about. there is permitting. there is lots of different types of permitting like fossil fuels, renewables, and that is certainly best that can certainly increase funding for the government. host: divide administration's -- the biden administration's

expansion of ev vehicles, for example. what do they see as necessary for changing the country's electrical grid or expanding the electrical grid to be able to handle that? guest: that is a big question mark. they passed the inflation reduction act last year for all kinds of clean energy technologies, including tax credits for ev. they passed funding to get the charging stations, 500,000 charging stations across the country. host: cast some of that money rolled out the door already? guest: i think it has. yeah, this money has been going out the door. a big question and a big debate happening now is about critical minerals getting into territory i don't know too much about because it gets complicated. you need critical minerals to

make batteries. to grow the renewable energy sector. a lot of people like senator joe manchin and other folks with critical minerals in the district want to see that done domestically and ramp up and have a debate about america first versus mining abroad and importing the minerals and relying on forced labor in china or other -- it gets into other problems. host: john in georgia on the republican line, go ahead. caller: where is the power going to come from? we don't have enough power to support a total electrical society. the administration wants to do away with natural gas, which i believe powers a lot of power plants now. where is that energy coming from? as far as clean energy is concerned, as i understand it, anything we do will not mean a

lot if china and india do not do something to curtail their co2 emissions. guest: yeah. interesting point in terms of talking about the transition. at the state of the union you saw president biden ad lib. and say we will need oil and gas for another 10 years. it seemed like he went off script. you saw people push back and say oil and gas will be around for a lot longer than 10 years. it is certainly an issue of investing and doing r&d in batteries. you need to have power when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining. there transition to renewables is going to need a lot of innovation and technology advances, which we are seeing. host: the president and the

speaker met yesterday at the white house. negotiations continue. what are you looking for in terms of discussions on this particular issue, on the reforms and energy permitting? guest: the clock is ticking. we only have a number of days before we are sort of expecting to see a deal. one of the questions in my mind is if when we are talking about energy permitting, what exactly are they going to figure out and hash out in a short amount of time. you see a lot of democrats and progressives increasingly worried what the white house agrees to and permitting is pretty aggressive and goes way beyond what they want to see in terms of handouts to the oil and gas industry. i think permitting is an abstract thing.

maybe if you are joe biden you are like the american people really understand food stamps or spending cuts. maybe that is a little bit politically dicey. her meeting is harder for people to sort of wrap their mind around. maybe that factors into their equation. host: back to the topic of gasoline prices. jeff has a question. do you suppose the sale of the largest u.s. dos al refinery to the saudi's in 2017 had any effect on petrol prices? jared kushner telling them to decrease oil reduction and getting $2 billion in them, says jeff. guest: again, gasoline prices are international. i do not know would be the short answer. that is something i would have

to do some reporting on and get back to you. host: sally in indianapolis on the independent line. caller: howery? -- how are you? host: great. caller: you are talking about the debt limit and the permit reform. the debt limit. i think people should go back and read some of the bills that were passed. the inflation reduction act and the green new deal, the build back better, those had a lot of extra spending. we are giving money to countries to teach them about their culture that they grew up in. we are giving them billions of dollars to do that. we are giving them billions of dollars to learn about transgenderism. we are spending this money on ridiculous stuff. i can't imagine people in these

countries really need any of this. so, the guy that was on, kareem jeffries for the democrats -- host: jeffrey rosen? guest: 5 -- caller: you showed a clip of him. someone was interviewing him in front of the white house or that capitol. they asked are you on board to agree to this deal? he spoke for about a minute or two but he said absolutely nothing. he talked in circles with a lot of fancy words but he never answered the question. that is part of the problem. a lot of people say a lot of things but they don't say anything. host: sally. kelsey brugger, you had a close look at the inflation reduction

act. in terms of energy -- you are reporting on excessive spending that the caller talked about. guest: the caller mentioned the green new deal, build back better. those are resolutions, ideas, things that never actually passed. what we ended up with a compromise bill, the inflation reduction act. no republicans voted for it. republicans have passed their own energy legislation that was repealed hundreds of billions of dollars in clean energy programs. it is certainly a highly politicized issue. host: one more call is eric in kokomo, indiana. democratic caller. caller: hello. host: mute television and go ahead with your comments for kelsey brugger. caller: i have it muted. i just think we need to work

together to get this straightened out. you are breaking your own backs. every american needs money. if you don't do something about it, somebody will. let's put it that way. host: kelsey brugger, we talked about the discussions continuing. what other major energy issues are facing the house and senate in the coming weeks or months? guest: the energy permitting is still something the senate will take up on its own. we have seen a bipartisan interest in the carbon border adjustment. that's an interesting area where we can see republicans and democrats, you know, strike a deal and tackle climate change

and sort of america first policies. host: our viewers and listeners can read your work at eandenews.net. coming up next, open forum and a chance for you to call in on public policy or political issues you are following. maybe things we talked about this morning. the debt ceiling debate we have covered pretty well but we welcome further opinions. tim scott entering the presidential race and more. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. ♪ ♪ >> since 1979, in partnership with the cable industry, c-span

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education, entertainment and culture. watch tv every sunday on c-span2, and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. ♪ >> c-spanshop that work is c-span's online store. browse products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan. every purchase help support our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> washington journal continues. host: the u.s. house coming into session in under half an hour. we will have live coverage on c-span. in between now and then it is your turn. open forum. a chance to weigh in on news items you are following.

the lines of the same as most of the morning. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. her independents and all others, (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls momentarily. just leading off more about the negotiations between the president and speaker kevin mccarthy. the debt talks are about to test mccarthy's pulled on his party, writes politico. speaker kevin mccarthy's negotiations with president biden are serving another purpose besides reaching the deal. his second job interview with conservatives. as the talks lurch to the default deadline, kitchen not be forgotten that mccarthy's speakership is on the line. any single disgruntled member empowered to force the vote on ousting him. the california republican must ensure his right flank can swallow any deal he strikes with the white house or hold its nose

while voting no. we heard from congressman mccormick earlier from georgia, the republican conference meeting this morning perhaps at this hour about the status of negotiations between the white house and the speaker. let's go to the first caller on open form, robert in tennessee on the democrat line. robert, you'd your volume and go ahead with your comment. caller: ok. what my comment is what is the new world order? host: what is the new world order? caller: that is my question. host: what do you think it is? caller: i don't know what it is, but i hear it a lot and that's what i'm asking. host: riverside, california. david on the republican line. good morning.

caller: good morning, bill. good morning, america. ever since roe v. wade was overturned last year the argument has been how many weeks should a woman have while pregnant to determine an abortion? i will take the first one first. the amount of weeks should be as low as we can get legislatively, because this is a human life. the longer you wait the more painful and gruesome the abortion is for the mother and child. secondly, is it a political winner? was slavery a political winner in the 1800s? both deny the human rights of a person. maybe it was because abraham lincoln got elected president on the antislavery party, maybe it was popular. it did start a civil war. abortion is not likely to start a civil war. republicans want to know if i can get elected on a pro-life platform. my answer is simply, who cares? if you don't stand for human

life, you don't deserve to be reelected. if you don't get reelected and don't defend the rights of the baby in the womb, you don't deserve to serve. you are worthy of no praise. some issues have not inherently political qualities but we need laws. the baby and the slaves are human beings and more important than winning elections. every election cannot just be about getting elected. will you stand for the week you have no voice? -- weak who have no voice? host: wayne from boston. caller: i think the recent actions and you hear the term valving at the altar of climate change by the democrats. i use the term irreparably insane. they pretend it is a 500 pound person that wants to lose

weight. they are amputating all their arms and legs to do it. it took us 100 plus years to get to this point. now they are wanting to ban fossil fuels. there are 6000 products we use from fossil fuels that we cannot live without them. we will be back in the stone age. senator markey of massachusetts wants to ban the export of fossil fuels. what is that doing to the country? the tax base? there is a war on fossil fuels for the democrats and no way we can do this quickly. it will take decades to get to where they want to do it. host: we go to john and hubbard, ohio on the independent line. john, you are on the air. caller: thanks.

i know the debt ceiling fight is taking precedent right now. how can we have any hope when there is an issue. a congresswoman from las vegas is trying to get the slots act passed. ohio legalized gambling. every time you hit a jackpot or $1200, the machine stops and you have to sign a piece of paper. you have to claimant in a tax document. in order to claim gambling losses you have to itemize, which may people can't do. this lady has been trying to get this past. very simple. adjust the $1200 number for inflation. it was established in 1979. very simple to see the reasoning here but they cannot do it.

they cannot get it done. along the same lines is social security. the threshold for social security to be taxable. it has not been raised since it was established back in the 1980's or somewhere around there. this would help a lot of seniors. more seniors than ever are paying taxes on their social security. host: the name of that legislation, the first one about slot machines, their winnings is the slots act? caller: i believe that is what it is called. i could be off a little bit. this rule they have in place is a headache for people running casinos. you have people who want to gamble and the machine shuts down and an attendant has to come. host: how recently did legalized gambling open up in ohio? caller: it just opened up. they have had the law for year

and now we have legalized sports betting. at the start of the year we have legalized sports betting and the same rules apply. i am making a point. here is the thing. senators say they have more important things to do then deal with the little issues. if he can't take care of little problems, how can you take care of anything? host: it is open forum. we have not talked about that this morning but things you are following the news at (202) 748-8000, the lender democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. we are here until 10:00 eastern when the u.s. house comes in but live coverage continues elsewhere on the c-span networks. at 10:00 on c-span2, i hearing

about for security, immigration policy. former u.s. border patrol chief rodney scott testifying at 10:00 on c-span2. also on c-span now and at c-span.org. in the afternoon on c-span2, a hearing on u.s. national security and relations with china. 2:00 p.m. eastern at c-span2, c-span.org and the mobile app. brian, ohio. bill on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: i would like to talk about the marine and the smoking incident. in my opinion i think he did what he had to do. how many arrests is enough? he did not have any this when that happened. my point is, the irresponsibility of the media and people -- that when i can think of is al sharpton, saying

he's guilty of murder. if you go out and get in a car accident and kill somebody, is not murder. he did not go out and potentially want to kill anybody. the fact of the young man died is very tragic but it was not murder. host: here is some reporting from the york. a couple of election stories. this is the new york post. an associated press story. judge dismisses kari lake's final claim in election loss for governor. the judge dismissed the only remaining legal claim and republican kari lake's challenge of her loss last year for arizona governor, affirming the election a democrat katie hobbs. another election story, an election related story i want to point out is in huff post.com. tucker carlsen's attorney has a black response to 2020 for

present -- 2024 presidential speculation. he fired off a legal warning to a political action committee for raising money to draft the former fox news host -- sorry about that. mr. carlsen will not run for president in any circumstances. the attorney wrote that in a letter to the pac, sighted by the hill. newark, new jersey. james on the democrats line. caller: hi. biden gathers up money and sits on it, which is a bummer. he took in -- and did nothing. [indiscernible]

host: onto laverne, tennessee. nick, independent line. open forum. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a simple statement to make. once we get the answer it should resolve the issue on abortion. who owns the egg? that is all i got. host: crestview, florida. john, independent caller. go ahead. caller: i appreciate your patience with some of these callers. on the issues with the debt ceiling, my concern is the effect it will have on a position on a global stage with china pushing for a different currency and undermining the u.s. currency underwritten by other countries. this will give them a giant voice if we default on our

loans. that is very concerning. we will lose a lot of our voice in the world on energy policy and anything else. we will not have much weight. that is the crux of my question. host: the taxes, bob --texas, bob on the republican line. caller: good morning. you had a caller asking about what the new world order is. i wanted to refer the gentleman to wiki pedia, his iphone or computer and type in the phrase "new world order.' it will come back explaining it's a conspiracy theory of the emergency -- emerging secret plan for one will government. i dunno how secret it is. it goes back as far as president george w. bush -- george

h w bush who started this hubbub in 1989 at the end of his first term where he referenced in emerging new world order, which was part of his great game plan. there were never details to come but it's turned into a conspiracy theory. host: you are a brave man for typing new world order into your phone. are you worried you will be bombarded with different ads and links for the next couple of days? caller: i've got pretty good filters on my system. i have a technical question if you would indulge me. host: i hope i can give you a technical answer. caller: on my hd television you guys come in and letterbox format. do you know what? -- why? host: i don't know why.

above my pay grade from a technical standpoint. i am just glad we come through on your cable system. thank you for calling this mornin the headline from the post courier in south carolina. tim scott makes gop presidential bid official in a hometown announcement. here's a look at some of yesterday's event. [video] >> i have lived to the closest thing to magic in a mega. a good education. today the far left has us retreating away from excellence in schools. extreme liberals are letting big labor bosses trapped millions of kids in failing schools. they are replacing education with indoctrination. they spent covid locking kids out of the classroom and now they are locking kids out of their futures.

an inviting's america -- in biden's america crime is on the rise and law enforcement is in retreat. the far left is any cash bail, geminis and -- demonizing, demoralizing and defunding police. i grew up in neighborhoods alongside people who ended up incarcerated are going to the cemetery. not seminary. seminary too, but cemetery as well. we need more public safety, not less. we cannot have innocent people at risk. police officers getting ambushed and attacked. seniors locked in their homes from the time the sun goes down until the sun comes up. joe biden and the radical left are attacking every single rung of the latter that help me climb -- ladder that helped me climb. i'm and out sick i'm running

for president of the united states -- i am announcing i am running for president of the united states of america. [cheers] host: that was tim scott yesterday. from cnbc this morning, larry ellison gears up to spend millions to back tim scott's 2024 run. the oracle co-founder and mega donor is preparing to spend millions of dollars backing senator tim scott's run for president. the plan has been emotion since the 2022 midterms when ellison donated $30 million to a pro scott super pac opportunities matters fund. people who declined to be named for the story did so in order to speak freely about private planning and deliberations. tim scott into the republican race. kat from north dakota on the independent line.

caller: hello. host: you are on the air. caller: this is pat but that doesn't matter. host: go ahead, pat. caller: i would like to know what the taxpayers union does and i would like to have you have ask someone what they do. you never hear about the taxpayers union. you hear about the power of the teachers union and the power of the government workers union. you never hear about the power of the taxpayers union. i would like to know that is. host: we will go to todd from north carolina, independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to say two point. the real news happens on c-span. i wish people would watch more

c-span instead of letting the immediate tell them how to view the world. the second point is the government wants to track every $600 individual citizens spend. september 10, 2001, donald rumsfeld announced the pentagon misplaced $2.3 trillion. why did that flashlight turn on the american people? why doesn't that flashlight turn on our government? this is our money. where is that tracking accountability? host: thank you for that, todd. this is from the wall street journal. the headline, emigrants share of labor his high. foreign-born workers share the u.s. labor force -- share of the u.s. labor force roast last year

to the highest level in 27 years. wall street journal reports people born outside the u.s. made 18.1% of the overall labor force, up from 17.4% the prior year. the highest level in data back to 1996. the labor department said in its annual report on foreign-born workers the number of immigrants, those working or actively looking for jobs rose by 1.8 million, 46.3% to 29.8 million in 2022. it is open forum and we go to patricia calling from connecticut, democrats line. go ahead. sorry about that. jerry and fort smith, arkansas, you are next on the democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. please don't cut me off.

the men and women this program do an outstanding job of bringing different viewpoints to the public. also the directors and producers of this program, they are great. you need to tell them that. host: they are here get and we appreciate that. we feel the same way. caller: the third one is the sponsors and donators of this program. without them i doubt it would exist. my point is i am 83 years old.

i have lived it. it happened several years ago when the republicans talked about the irs cutting back. you have to remember several years ago the republicans had a plan for the irs. you would file your income tax on a postcard. whatever happened to that question mark thank you for taking my call. host: now want to patricia and connecticut on the democrats line -- in connecticut on the democrats line. caller: i'm calling in response to the gentleman from california that seems to think women can tell they are pregnant after a

week or two. he wants the abortion laws lowered. the states that are lowering it to six weeks and 12 weeks -- 12 weeks is ok. you might know you are pregnant by then. six weeks, come on, guys. you know what? this has gone too far. they are trying to push women back into the 40's and 50's when they were ignorant and men made all the decisions. this is not right. this is not right. an abortion should be between a woman, her doctor and the father of the child if he is willing to stand up. host: less than five minutes before the u.s. house comes in. this is the hill. naacp takes on desantis ahead of the 2024 bid.

they took an extraordinary step in issuing a travel advisory to florida in response to policies by republican governor ron desantis that many have criticized as discriminatory and antiblack. the hill writes the move comes as desantis prepares to launch his candidacy for president in the coming days, putting him in a potentially uncomfortable spot as his critics of to shine as spotlight on his controversial policies. makia is next from las vegas. caller: good morning. i disagree with the last caller. people have the right to get abortions but i begin life -- i believe life begins at conception. you have six or 12 weeks and you know because you miss your period. i want to comment on the g7 summit and how president biden

talked about sanctioning china. that will cause hyperinflation or even a depression because some of the goods and services come from china. also, i'm so confused with the debt ceiling because joe biden keep saying default is not an option. they have to work together, both sides. i don't understand what he said it is not an option when he does not want to move and says the conservatives do nothing but they come up with the legislation -- proposed legislation, i should say. we should send nowhere w -- no more money to ukraine for a war i don't thing they can win. our schools are a mess. teachers are underpaid but we sent billions of dollars to a country for a we have no part in. the american people did not ask for this.

all the nonsense going on, we did not ask for this. the whole transgender movement with children, stay away from the kids, period. stay out of women's sports and locker rooms. people want to have a fit about abortion but they want to allow men, biological men, to be ok to come in the locker rooms and steel sports nbd peasants from women. -- sports and beauty pageants from women. host: this is an analysis of the g7. you can read it at nytimes.com. they write biden foresees thaw with china as g7 rattles beijing. we will see if we get one more quick call with dan in tulsa, oklahoma. caller: thank you for taking my call. i saw an interview by dan bishop the other day from the freedom caucus.

he claims the senate will not put down the crack pipe. i thought that was a shock at all from the report -- shock and awe from the republicans. always paint the bad guys and seed the division in america. i know that they are coming in. he claims he is not to get into a game of chicken at the last minute. get things done. over the past 12 years since the obama administration they have used those tactics to shock and awe. they have used crisis after crisis to gain political points. host: we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. the house coming in. legislative business at noon. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] the chair lays before the hou