announcer: coming up on c-span's "washington journal," we look at camp in 2024 and political news of the week with the editor of the national review and can trina vanden hoover as director and publisher of the nation talks about the campaign and progressive agenda. "washington journal" starts now. >> on this boat, the yays are 63 and nays are 36. the bill is passed. ♪

host: with that, the u.s. senate says the debt limit bill ahead of a monday deadline to the first-ever u.s. government that default. the final set of votes came before 11:00 p.m. eastern last night. president biden is said to speak about the agreement from the oval office tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern. this morning, we are getting your reaction to last night's senate vote and what it will take to get the fiscal response bill the act to president biden's desk. phone lines are split by political party. republicans are (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text this morning and that number is (202) 748-8003. if you do, include your name, and where you are from. otherwise catch up with us on social media, on twitter is @cspanwj. on facebook it is facebook.com/cspan.

a very good friday to you. start calling in now. the final package came last night in the senate after senators needed 11 amendments offered as part of an agreement to speed up the passage of the bill after the final votes. senate majority leader chuck schumer spoke about the debt limit agreement and this is what he had to say. >> democrats are feeling very good tonight. we saved the country from the scorch of default, though there were some on the others who wanted default, wanted to lead us to default. may be a little tired but we did it. we are very happy. default was a giant sword hanging over america's head, but because of the good work of president biden as well as democrats in the house and democrats in the senate, we are not defaulting. democrats said from the start we must take default off of the table. for a long time, republicans, many in the house, resisted.

house republicans were ready to take default hostage in order to pass a radical hard right agenda that never could have passed with the american people. so tonight outcome is very welcome news for our economy and american families. i think my colleagues for the good work tonight. i commend president biden and his team for producing a sensible compromise under the most difficult of circumstance. so many of the destructive provisions in the republican bill are gone. because we persisted and we kept insisting default is off the table. we will not be defaulting. and we will not be passing the hard right extreme agenda, virtually no part of it. that is thanks to senate and house democrats and president biden. host: senate majority leader chuck schumer last night. that was a little before

midnight and it was close to 11:00 p.m. when the senate had its final vote in his statement yesterday after the final vote. this is what the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, had to y, the republican leader in the seor mths after spear mccarthy invited prison biden to begin negotiating a resolution to the looming debt isis and artant step toward fiscal sanity will finally become law. thanks to house republican sponse bill the act avoids the catastrophic consequences of default and begins to occur washington democrats addiction to reckless spending that grows our nations debt. he went on to say senate passed legislatio will reduce federal spendi by $1.5 trillion, begin to reform th infrastructure permitting process, resend unspent dollars and cut spending at the irs. he says our work is far from over in delivering necessary support to americans armed forces.

minority leader mitch mcconnell, it was a statement they came out late last night from the white house and this is what president biden had to say last night. he said both parties voted to protect the hard-earned economic progress we have made and prevent a first-ever default the united states. together they demonstrate a once more that america is a nation that pays its bills and meet its obons and always will be. in negotiation but i bipartisan agreement is a big win for the economy and american people. we are expecting to hear a lot more from the president tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern. expected to speak about the legislation in any address from the oval office. this morning on the "washington journal," we want to hear from you, your reaction that the senate vote last night and the winding path that this bipartisan agreement took to get the prison biden's desk. to do so, the phone lines are as

usual, republican party -- split by party, here's the republican line, (202) 748-8001. democrats are (202) 748-8000. and independence are -- independents are (202) 748-8002. we will start with democrats in indiana pennsylvania. josie, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm very pleased with how this has worked out. it is a sign that moderation is coming to american politics. for so many years we have heard the division in our bureaucracy. we heard division in our legislative process. there was of course the sniping back and forth but it was low-key, it was a moderates on both sides of the party who brought this to a very good conclusion, so i applaud everyone who participated,

particularly the moderates on the republican side, on the democrat side, and i particularly applaud president biden. he is a man who gets things done. he gave mccarthy enough room that mccarthy could do what he needed to do. and without taking away any of mccarthy's power within his own caucus. host: do mind if i ask, do you consider your senator, john fetterman of its venue, a moderate? i ask because he was one of the few democrats who voted against the bill last night. caller: i understand why he voted against it, john fetterman is my senator and indeed he is. his vote is ok with me because i understand completely, as the former mayor of pennsylvania, he understands what it is to receive food stamps or from that program, he understands the cuts

would hurt the constituency he worked for for so long so i understand his vote. i believe john fetterman will come to the center more often than not and that is why i voted for him in november. host: josie in pennsylvania. this is jason in tennessee, your next. caller: yes, trump [indiscernible] he's got a lot of experience in that, he filed bankruptcy. host: what did you think about the process on capitol hill and agreement finally reached? caller: democrats pull them out again. host: that is jason in tennessee this morning. john fetterman is one of the democrats who voted no, the final was 63 to 36 with a 60 vote threshold that the bill needed in the senate last night. here are the democrats besides john fetterman who voted no,

jeff merkley of oregon, elizabeth warren of massachusetts as well, bernie sanders independent of vermont, also voting no. those are the democrats -- those who caucus with democrats devoted no bang. -- voted no. this is the "new york times" wrap up, 17 republicans voted yes, john boseman, shelley moore o, susan collins, kevin cramer, chuck grassley, mitch mcconnell, the minority leader, jerry moran, lisa murkowski, mitt romney, john thune, thom tillis, and todd young are the republicans who voted yes on the legislation. 17 republicans joining 44 democrats and two independents, the final vote in the senate. 63 voting yes, and 36 voting no.

before the vote, it was mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate talking about the debt limit agreement. this is some of what he had to say. >> last night and an overwhelming majority of our house colleagues voted to pass the agreement speaker mccarthy reached with president biden. in doing so, they took an urgent and important step in the right direction. for the health of our economy, and the future of our country. the fiscal responsibility act avoids catastrophic consequences of a default on our nations debt. just as importantly it makes the most serious headway in years toward curbing washington democrats reckless spending. the bill in the house just past

has the potential to cut federal spending by $1.5 trillion. now the senate has a chance to make that important progress a reality. remember where we were just a few months ago. after two years, of reckless spending and painful runaway inflation, the american people elected a republican house majority the serve as a check on washington democrats power. it was clear from the outset that preserving the full faith and credit of the united states is going to come down to an agreement that could pass both the people's house and earn the president's signature. in other words, direct negotiations between speaker

mccarthy and president biden, just like i said for months. for months. back in february, speaker mccarthy got to work. he made it clear to the president he was ready to take serious steps, not only to avoid crisis in the near term but but government spending on a more sustainable path for the long term. unfortunately, it took president biden months to accept the basic reality. when the president finally came to the table, house republicans worked hard to secure as many serious spending reforms as possible. considering we were in divided government. host: minority leader mitch mcconnell before the final vote took place, the final vote around 11:00 p.m. eastern. now the debt limit bill is on

its way from mr. biden's desk. we are asking for your thoughts. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. henry is an independent, texas, good morning. caller: good morning. i just think the debt ceiling thing, what it really highlights is what i've said for the longest, big business is what runs this country. this rhetoric from republicans and sometimes you hear rhetoric from democrats, but the reality is it is not republicans and democrats that really run the country, it is big business. if people paid attention to a couple things that happened that were real subtle. first, when this all blows up, you had the white house that was making an effort to contact big

businesses, at least the leaders of the businesses, and also you had mike mccarthy go in visit wall street. put those two things together and you can see where it was most likely big business behind the scenes putting pressure on these people to do what they did in a timely matter because, to run the country off a cliff for full is nash would have been devastating to everyone, including big business. host: that is henry in texas. back to our line, democrats, pennsylvania, this is dave in harrisburg. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. a couple things. i'm glad they did with they had to do. we talk about being taken hostage by the same people who stormed out capitol.

that is point number one. point number two, and 2011, we were downgraded because of this foolishness and never upgraded us again. we have been living under the same credit rating since then. the lady from indiana hit it on the head and cooler heads have to prevail, even when nonsense is upon us. i think that is with the democrats had to deal with in this so-called right wing madness, but they got it done because those of us who rely on our four ones in the near future , retiring here soon, we don't have enough in 10 years to recoup what these guys could have destroyed for us. in this debacle and this state created crisis. i don't know, we will just see what all is in this bill. for instance, the purred meeting

process has been loosened -- permitting process has been loosened so mansion can get his pipeline in. we will see what else is in there that is not yet apparent. that's what i wanted to say. host: that is dave in harrisburg, pennsylvania. in terms of what is in the debt limit bill, that is on its way to the president, here is some part of it, the fiscal response ability act as it is known would suspend the debt ceiling until january 1, 2025, lim discretionary spending for two years, also impose a new rourke newark requirements for those receiving federal aid and resend a quarter of eyes -- iris funding last year, clawback millions of dollars of covid really funds, for the energy permitting process andhe caller was talking about the st track of the new national gas pipeline from west virginia into the states of vginia. the congressionabudget office

estimates the bill would result in about $1.5 trillion deficit savings over the next decade. this is raymond out of north carolina, republican, good morning. what did you think about this final bill and the process to get it? raymond, are you with us? caller: yes. good morning. i'm sorry. i wanted to talk about this debt ceiling thing. speaker mccarthy i request he be removed immediately. he is not doing what he promised he was going to do. he said he was going to immediately get rid of all of the funding for the 87,000 irs agents, and if you want to do some serious negotiations about the debt ceiling, you need to get rid of some of these departments in the government that were never meant to be in the federal government like the department of education, the

department of interior. even the fbi, you need to bring it down to the state levels and let the states control their situation and remove some of the power from the federal government in general. and they did not address any of these things. host: it's not mccarthy for speaker, who would you prefer? caller: byron donalds would be great. i think you would be great. there's a lot of conservatives out there that would be great. you need to bring the spending under control, not just dress-up a duck and tell everyone it's a chicken. you can't do that. we are in serious situation right now and mccarthy is not a serious player. he can take lessons off of nancy pelosi. she was a powerful speaker. when she would say jump people would say how high do you want me to jump?

mccarthy has let us down and when he was voted in for speaker, a certain amount of congresspeople said get him out, he could be removed. remove him. get him out of there. host: that is raymond in north carolina. in terms of the savingsn the bill, the upchuck column of the new york times takes a look at it, looking at some of the side deals for future spending, lessen the total amount of savings in the debt bill. a "new york times" analysis of the bill and agreement finds the full deficit savings will be only about two thirds of what is captured in the legislation and that is because the agreement struck by mccarthy and biden will require congress to appropriate much more spending as part of the second set of bills expected to pass in the coming months. they write future changes which the right -- white house is calling agreed-upon adjustments and many observers called side deals or gimmicks would increase federal spending in unconventional ways and then

direct the money into the part of the budget that the current bill cuts the deepest instead of a total deficit reduction of $1.5 trillion over a decade as the budget office projected, the full package would probably reduce deficits by about $1 trillion, including interest payment over the next decade. that is a major shift the new york time rights from where republicans started negotiations. the bill they passed back in april would reduce the deficit by $4.8 trillion. that analysis is the upchuck column in the "new york times." this is robert in maryland, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. as mortgage rates head to 7%, credit card rates had to 20%, everybody should remember this is the reason why. before christmas, 20 republicans in the senate voted to approve

an omnibus bill, 1.7 trillion dollar omnibus bill. just before christmas, 20 republicans. here we are six months later, we had 149 or 139 vote in the house of representatives to have an unlimited debt ceiling of 4 trillion as it is now. the republican party can no longer call themselves the conservative party. when they are voting for these types of increases. the inflation that is caused by this, the inflation that has been imposed on the american worker, the destruction of the value of the dollar on behalf of china, nothing china loves more to see the dollar be destructed. these republicans can no longer be called conservative. you sit back and watch these guys do this again and again and it is unbelievable host: host:. host:host: who are the true conservatives then? caller: it looks like you only have 10 of them that voted -- the guys that voted against this

stuff in the rules. that is where they should have been stopped. we have conservatives in the republican party. this is a one-party system and it is destroying the economy. you cannot ask for better helpers for the chinese communist party than the republican party. there is no difference between them. we are $32 trillion in debt. if you want to know why your credit card is 20%, if you want to know why your grocery bills are $100 for have a cart of groceries, this is the reason why. host: that is robert in maryland. this is micah, orlando, florida. good morning. democrat. caller: good morning. i just wanted to [indiscernible] why the democrats keep allowing the republicans [indiscernible]

they spend like drunken sailors and the democrats are the ones that [indiscernible] host: you're going a little in and out there. this is russell, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. this $32 trillion in debt, all tax money that goes to the government to run government obviously it is taking care of business. from what i can understand, we only pay the interest on this money because it appears we are not self-sufficient anymore in the united states. what is happening is you keep raising the debt, raising the ceiling, raising the ceiling, and the data gets higher and higher, and all you are doing is paying off the interest on it and everything and every time we have this money that has to be accumulated to do good in our country like they wanted all the money for the covid vaccines and everything, all this money, but

some of the people in our government, republicans also, and i am a true republican, they got these little pet projects. i won't sign off on it and vote for it if i cannot have $10 million for the kennedy center -- kennedy center or whatever. then they want to check my credit score when i make a loan when the united states of america is not even paying their debt? it is absolutely ridiculous. as far as for a house and immigrants in motels and stuff, while we have veterans that made sacrifices as well as their families, cardboard boxes under bridges in mostly democratic cities, i'm dam near ashamed to be american. host: russell in louisiana, a quick look at u.s.dataclock.org. revenue is about $4.7 trillion, federal spending about $6.1

trillion. the total u.s. national debt accumulated over the years, $31 trillion and counting. u.s. tech clock -- u.s. -- us debtclock.org. this is joe, independent, good morning. caller: question and then a comment. i thought dianne feinstein did not vote last night on the bill or whatever, on raising the debt ceiling. with her being not well, there was talk recently about that if she wanted to step down and have a replacement, the republicans would not let her replace because it was not allowed or something. host: she was a yes last night on the legislation and her vote was counted last night and right

after that vote, about 11:04 eastern, "while i would have preferred the increase of the debt limit without conditions set by house republicans, this was a far better outcome than defaulting on our debt." that is senator feinstein of california. caller: ok, on may be some of the amendments she did not vote. wells finding online with the senate data, maybe they're not entering their data right. but this is my question, they did talk about if she was replaced and wanted to step down on things like voting for judges and things, she cannot do that. we would lose a vote. so i want to know why when ben sasse stepped down from nebraska, how compete rickett supreme much assigned himself as the replacement, the x governor of nebraska, how come he is able to vote? host: if a center set down and

does not fill their term, they are replaced by any appointee, the governor, i think you were talking about her not voting and committees but remaining a senator. is that what you are referring to? caller: yes. host: i think that is what you're talking about. this is conrad in south dakota, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, conrad. caller: i just had a few things to say about this. we figure and we debate on how different types of institutions, and we assign money to different things which these programs don't even really work for the people, but my main thing is that we wonder about the debt ceiling and dead we are in.

how about -- how come we never adjust our tax code to make it fair that everybody pays a fair share? that would increase revenue for our government and then being able to pay that deficit down faster. host: what is a way -- how would you like to see the tax code adjust to? what would make it more fair? caller: for me, i am -- me and my wife are an elderly couple. we work, we are coming up on our retirement, and retirement don't even sufficiently fund the people. yet when i work, i paid anywhere from 20 to 32 percent taxes out of my -- 20% to 32% taxes out of my paycheck and i hear these richer one per centers don't pay no taxes.

if everybody paid their way, including the rich and corporations, that would really increase the revenue in our government. host: that's conrad in south dakota. this is mark out of texas, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling about i'm disappointed out republican leaders, majority leader did not do his math. i sat out -- sat down and did math with a calc you later, if you take 87,000 new irs agents and paid them $50,000 a year, that is still going to be about $4.5 trillion annually, just for salaries. and of course they will probably make more. it is disgusting that the democrats their way money like they have around the world, over

the borders, and trump is it. i hope everyone wise it up and god bless. host: what do you think about ron desantis? caller: he should stay in florida. he did a good job there. teachers stay there. [indiscernible] trump studied on it for at least 30 years and he is the best we ever had for this nation. host: that is mark in texas. coming up to 7:30 on these coast, halfway through the first hour of the "washington journal" in this first hour talking of course about the final vote of the debt limit bill in the senate, clears the senate last night headed to the president's desk it went to the president's desk, president biden is set to speak on the bipartisan agreement tonight from the oval office at 7:00 p.m. eastern. more reaction from the senators who voted on the bill last night

. here is senator ron johnson, wisconsin, who voted no. he tweeted this out, consistently voted against massive deficit spending, so i will let those who support reckless spending raise the debt ceiling. this tweet from senator kevin cramer, who is a republican who voted for the legislation. as our country's national debt approaches $32 trillion, what a change from the democrats' reckless spending, i voted for the fiscal responsibility act to restore regular order. this from senator michael bennett, democrat of colorado. tonight i voted to avoid a catastrophic default on our national debt. although it isn't perfect it prevents a historic default that would have devastated our economy. he goes on to say, we cannot continue like this with time to limit the debt ceiling and permanently lift the threat of default from our economy. this from democrat ed markey, a

democrat who voted no, saying that he voted no on the bill. it is despicable that the republicans held our economy hostage. i could not vote for a bill that puts pipelines over lifelines. pipelines was a big reason why joe manchin voted for the legislation last night. after the vote he tweeted this statement. >> hello, i'm united states and enter joe manchin honor to represent west virginia. i am proud to announce that we have finally secured the completion of the mountain valley pipeline, and have done so with broad bipartisan support. for more than nine months i worked tirelessly to build consensus and garner the support necessary to finally complete the m.v.p.. the bill is complete, the mountain valley pipeline received a bipartisan vote on the senate floor. received enough republican support necessary to become law. it was too important to the energy security of our country to give up. i doubled down to build support

by working with speaker mccarthy, leader schumer, white house officials, and colleagues on both sides of the aisle. in the house and senate. to make the case for this critical energy security project. i am thrilled the republicans and democrats came together to complete the mountain valley pipeline and shore up the marriage -- shore up american energy security. the mountain valley pipeline is america's energy m.v.p. and we are proud to supply the energy the rest of our nation relies on. this transformational project will create more than 2500 jobs, generate $50 million in tax revenue, and more than 170 5 million dollars in royalties for west virginia landowners. and play a significant role in strengthening our domestic energy production, which will lower the cost for consumers and west virginia and across the country. perhaps even more importantly, the m.v.p. opens markets for our natural resources giving us untold revenue sources

and developing industry that our grandchildren and future generations will benefit from. daybreak let's democrat joe manchin last night after that final vote. back to your phone calls, getting your reactions. democrats and independents as usual. this is out of new orleans. wfaa i want to say from the great state of louisiana we thank the team that got together with the democrats. we thank mccarthy and we want to thank the president for coming to the conclusion that they could not go forward. letting money go back to the state will never work. no matter what they say, not getting away with it. we live in a great country. we will do better down the road.

it is a fact from this state of louisiana where the governor has john bel edwards has got for this state, republicans, going in the right direction. we are in a great country. we have our flaws, our problems, but we are a great country and when we come together, all of us, we can make things happen. i think that this is just an indicator of the barometer pointing in the right direction. host: i think that you meant congressman garrett graves, one of the lead republican negotiators? caller: yes. mr. mccarthy got him to go in. he has done a good job. host: did you know much about garrett graves of louisiana before these negotiations began as someone from new orleans? caller: with others like troy carter and steve scalise, we have a delegation for louisiana that are a good delegation,

independent, everyone has their own philosophy when it comes to politics, but the main thing is that we all come together to make the best decision for the country and the state. i think that this is what happened in washington. there was -- there is not a democrat or republican who wanted to see a default. thank god that they came to the room. thank god for the christians and the prayers. we came to the conclusion. we have two years cap so we will be able to tweak it better. we have a presidential election. we have storm season in louisiana. we need to be sure that the government can assist in these situations that we have down here. you know katrina. steve scalise, and all of them, even if they didn't vote for it they bring a lot from louisiana to washington, d.c. and i think that they are doing a good job. host: this is lydia from upper morrow, maryland. caller: good morning. i'm glad that they passed the

debt ceiling, because it would have been catastrophic if we were allowed to default. i was worried because i am 86 years old and i depend on my social security cap. i think that we have a revenue problem. i know that rich individuals pay some taxes, but multinational corporations and a lot of nonprofits, they should be forced to pay some taxes. i think that our tax code needs to be revamped. every american, a citizen, corporation, business, should have to pay some taxes doors this country. you can't run a country without money like you can't run your household. i think that the tax code needs to be completely revamped. our internal revenue agents that they want to hire to go after people who are not paying the taxes that they owe, i was very upset that they removed that from the bill. thank you very much. host: richard from alabama,

independent. caller: i want to ask a simple question and make a comment afterwards. have you ever heard of nature's granola bar? host: i have, richard. caller: you know exactly what it is and it is bear scat. that is what the legislation, these people passes. there are a few good things in it you can pick out and survive on it, but basically it is covered with a bunch of crap. everyone is calling for a corporation to pay taxes -- corporations don't pay taxes. they pass all of that cost on to consumers. i mean, they might put money in there, but it is actually the people paying for it. people who are on boards, ceos, let them pay the taxes. the corporations are just going to raise the prices on us, and that's all i have to say. host: comments from social media

and from our text messaging service, daniel in springfield, illinois, neither side likes the agreement, but they think that they can agree with it -- they can live with it, that's a good compromise. why can't people see in some point in the future that our children and grandchildren will not be able to pay even the interest on the national debt? we now just spend wildly putting that debt on our children and grandchildren's backs with no attempt to slow down our wild spending. in terms of spending and what this bill means for it, it is steven cruiser who writes this about the name of this legislation, fiscal responsibility act. can we all just pause for a moment, he recently wrote, and marvel at the ability of our politicians to give names to bills that describe the opposite of what is really happening? they do it with straight faces, too. i think fiscal responsibility act knocks inflation reduction act out of first place for the

most inappropriately named legislation of the biden era. writing about that legislation this week. this is flint, michigan, david, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i am glad that the deal past and i give the credit to president biden. he might be older and people have their doubts, but biden has done more than i can say probably the last six or seven presidents put together in the time that he has been in there. he got a committee together. this deal should have never been held hostage by the republican party. the time is now to decide on these bills and not wait and threaten the future of people like me on social security. i still work. people like me who are on social security, though.

i think that it's a great deal, and i think the democrats have done a great job. i hear the republican callers calling angry and mad because the republicans have to focus on the debt deal, the debt again. just like you show the picture of the debt thing. that was never important to none of the republicans win trump gave all those tax breaks to the billionaires and millionaires. and when the united states continues to give all this money to the military, probably double what even china spends on it. they don't think about the debt. but all of a sudden all the republican party callers are calling in soul worried about the debt all of a sudden. it is so phony. host: in terms of your view on president biden, i imagine that you probably agree with a lot of what david ignatius writes in today's washington post?

"president biden this week accomplished what americans elected him to do, govern from the center and make deals that solves problems. progressive democrats don't seem to like that cooperative spirit, a big reason that their candidates keep flailing and failing to become president. biden's critics missed the glaringly obvious fact that he is behaving exactly like he would. the bipartisanship's act, and finally this agreement. the deeper point is, the debt agreement was not capitulation, it was compromise." david ignatius saying that biden is delivering on his most far-fetched pledge, compromise. good morning. caller: thank you. a couple of comments. i think that it would have been nice if the leadership would have come out and talk about compromise instead of talking

about how they snookered the other side and democrats did all this and we tricked the republicans into voting for this , when everyone agrees that it had to be done. both sides do it, so i just think that if they would come out and talk about compromise more, we did this and they did that, but they want to compromise, that's all i really have to say. host: does the final vote so that -- show that more than what they are saying in the speeches after the vote? 63-36. 63 members in the senate supporting this legislation in the house. it was 314-117. you see the compromise? caller: yeah, that's what i mean. they are compromising all the time, but if you listen to them, and even the media, who won, who lost, we all agree that the american people need to win, not

which side is winning. host: what you think we will hear from the president at 7:00 p.m.? do you think people say that we won or that bipartisanship won? caller: i think that he will praise the bipartisanship but he won't make it through the speech without trashing the maca republicans or this or that. host: independent and south carolina. we will hear from the president at 7:00 p.m. from the oval office. that legislation is headed to his desk for his signature ahead of the monday deadline for a potential default. this is glenn in stone mountain, georgia, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. i have been trying to call y'all -- i have been retired for 10 years, and i finally got you. host: 10 years you have been calling! i'm sorry about that. caller: since i retired. i have something to say about the debt ceiling.

once again, thank god for joe biden, because you have these republicans calling in about social security sort of like they did about the abortion issue. they said, don't worry about it, we are not going to do anything about it. see what they've done with abortion. they will do the same thing with social security if they get the opportunity once they get the numbers. joe biden and the democratic party saved the republicans who are cornered once again to save the social security. so, that is pretty much all i got to say. thank god for joe biden. host: heading out to the west coast, james, san francisco, good morning, democrat. caller: i have a couple of big changes for the american doctors who are just raking us. i would like to draft 10% of the doctors into a newly set up

american health care corp. let them work one day a week at capped pay. host: any thoughts on the debt limit agreement and what we have been talking about? caller: it would definitely reduce american expenses of working people and retired people, medicare, medicaid. i would draft all of the doctors, 10% of them, except the doctors in teaching institutions. the other thing that i would like to say is that these people are forgetting that the expunging of the irs agent is not just for agents going after tax cheaters, it is also for services and improving the software, a lot of the stuff. the agents who go after the cheaters, they collect a lot more than they cost the government.

it is a deficit reduction program, and people are talking like it is a deficit increasing program. i don't like it. host: james in california. in terms of what those who oppose the bill didn't like about it, there were several republicans concerned about military spending in cuts to military spending. senator lindsey graham was one who made his feelings known throughout the day yesterday. he ultimately came to an agreement with senate majority leader chuck schumer to move supplemental defense spending bill that could provide more funding for the military later this year. this is senator lindsey graham expressing his concern about the bill before the vote yesterday afternoon. [video clip] sen. graham: i will never, ever trust again, because you have an r behind your name that you are going to be the party of ronald reagan. you have to prove that to me.

as we go forward, the game will change. why is she asking this to be done? if we don't commit to an early appropriations process, it gets worse for the defense department. the people who wrote this bill, i would not let you buy me a car. the provisions of sequestration, for lack of a better word, continued resolution if we don't do our legislative business increases nondefense spending, decreases defense spending. i thought that we were republicans? who came up with that great idea? the top line is inadequate. the cr is devastating. what bothers me the most is that we would put the department of

defense in this position. we are playing with the men and women's lives in the military. their ability to defend themselves in some chess game in washington. this is checkers at best. the fact that you would punish the military because we can't do our job as politicians is a pretty sad moment for me. but people in this body, on my side of the aisle, have drafted a bill that would punish the military even more if we fail to do our basic job. that cannot be the way of the future. so, i will insist, i will be here until tuesday, and i will make an amendment to avoid default for 90 days, however many days it takes to get this right. i don't want us to default on

the debt, but we are not leaving town until we find a way to stop some of this madness. so, you are not going to be able to blame me for default, because i'm ready to raise the debt ceiling right now for 90 days, no strings attached, to give us a chance to stop this insane approach to national security. host: the way that was eventually found was through a later supplemental defense spending bill, as expected, sometime later this year. that was senator graham on the floor yesterday before the vote took place.about 10 minutes left in this first segment of "the washington journal" if you want to join the discussion. republicans, (202) 748-8000. republicans, -- democrats, (202) 748-8002. independents, (202) 748-8001. text messaging, (202) 748-8003. this is what randy wrote in

millington, michigan. he calls into the program once a month. i am relieved and glad that the debt limit bill clear the senate. i would like to thank the real americans who put country before politics, another great example of how americans will try everything else before we do the right thing. the next tweet from tony in boston focuses on a different piece of legislation that was passed in the senate yesterday. not the debt limit bill, but a bill focusing on student loan forgiveness. tony saying that he is happy to see the senate passage of a bill to repeal the vote bribe as he calls it. it is outrageous to forgive loans that many of us paid more on the bill to repeal student loan forgiveness program. it passed the senate on a 52-46 vote yesterday. this is the wrapup from the washington times. president biden plans to veto the bill, increasing the likelihood that the fate of the program will be decided in the

supreme court. the proposal, as a reminder, passed the house last month. when it came to the senate yesterday, senate republica received a helping hand from moderate democrats who caucused with the democrats, joe manchin of west virginia, kyrsten sinema of arizona. manchin, hester, and sinema are all up for reelection in 2024. good morning. are you with us? caller: good morning. host: go ahead, sal. it is easiest if you turn your tv down and speak through your phone. caller: i will turn my tv down. thank god for a guy like joe biden in the white house. things have made a lot of changes. thank god they passed the bill. joe is a nice president. host: anything else you want to

add? caller: yes, i want to thank god for a guy like joe biden. he is doing a wonderful job in the white house. he is -- host: got your point, sal. robert in oregon. good morning. caller: good morning to you. as far as the recent vote, i, everybody, for a number of folks have been praising the biden administration. i would simply say that i think given the incredibly narrow margins that he is dealing with and infractions from various sides, i think that kevin mccarthy performed incredibly well in holding the president's feet to the fire when he wasn't in any place where he wanted to

do anything other than have a clean bill. this is called democracy. this is called the art of compromise. i think kevin mccarthy is done, in my view, far better than a number of folks thought he would, especially with the narrow margin he is dealing with. i am glad that we got past this. i think there is incredible improvements to not be in this place in the future. i think it was rather predictable that there would be an agreement arrived at, but i think -- i give great kudos to the speaker. host: in the call and in the

wall street journal today, "kevin mccarthy earned his speakership here." she ends the column, "does the speaker still face rough seas ahead? you bet. we will have to do this all over again for other must pass bills and it may not turn out as well, but at least he has a formula. this success shows it is possible to unify and the power that comes from that unity." the potomac watch column in today's washington journal. round rock, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to point out that it is starting to look more and more like this is a performance, like the previous caller said. not just from mccarthy but from the democrats. they could have easily passed a clean bill, but they had to get the defense budget raised. the defense budget has gone up

$200 billion in the last six years. it is nearing one trillion dollars. no one is even questioning this. joe biden still owes all of us $600 because they were afraid that the recovery bill would be close to one trillion dollars. when it comes to the military, the bullets and the bombs, things that people cannot eat or live in, no one bats an eye. i think it's a performance. they are all bought and paid for and is pretty disappointing. host: when you talk about $600, you're talking about not having another round of stimulus checks? caller: exactly. he campaigned on $2000. the bill got so close to $1 trillion that they started clutching their pearls and backtracking. and now they owe american $600 and are kicking people off of benefits with the new bill. when it comes to the military, something that has no tangible value to your average american,

they make us scrap over it. it is pretty disappointing. host: an independent like yourself who feels this way, who are you to vote for an the 2024 election? caller: go walk down the street in america and ask anybody if they would rather us by bullets or provide for americans? it is not just independents. republicans and democrats feel the same way. this is unnecessary money we are spending. when it comes to options as far as presidential candidates, unfortunately, we are pretty pigeonholed, man. host: anyone out there for you in 2024 right now? caller: there is one guy who said -- he hopes president biden doesn't get on tv today and -- -- and bash maga republicans. they deserve no quarter. if there is a maga republican, i will have to vote for the democrat. host: two hours left in the

program, but in this segment we will talk about last night's vote. (202) 748-8001 republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent,s (202) 748-8002. the vote took place in the senate just before 11:00 p.m. when the final vote took lace. if you want to watch the voting you can do so on our website at c-span.org. the final numbers, 63 total senators supporting the compromised legislation, 36 opposed. those numbers made up of 44 democrats voting yes and 17 republicans voting yes, and two independents. four democrats voted no, 40 one democrats voted no. bernie sanders voted no on the legislation. roseann, wisconsin rapids, democrat. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i just wanted to say, how did we get to where we are right now with these trillions of dollars that we owe? a trillion dollars on the afghan war -- $8 trillion on the afghan war. $8 trillion that president trump incurred in his administration. another $3 trillion for the iraq war. putting it all together and we are still $9 billion of undercount -- of unaccounted for money in those foreign wars. what was it about? oil. then we talk about drilling in this country. the crew that we are pulling out of our ground is not -- crude we are pulling out of our ground is not good for the purposes we use prude for. that is why we are exporting it. the idea of drilling in this country, it won't help the american people, it will help the oil industry. what i'm saying is, we are in this huge debt now because we are not going to war for democracy.

we are going to war for crude and oi purposesl for our country. who is benefiting? big oil. host: have you been to the cost of war project out of the boston institute of brown university? have you checked out their website? caller: i have not. host: it is called the cost of war project, and they do a lot of what you're talking about. breaking down the cost, human and dollar cost of various wars since 9/11. the united states has spent some $8 trillion on wars post 9/11. watson. brown.edu. and you can google the cost of war project. i think that you would be interested. caller: i have one additional comment.

george bush came out and he said he wasn't interested in getting osama bin laden. that's why we supposedly went over there. it jumped into the iraq war. when it comes to politics in general, i am a democrat because i think they care a little more about working-class. yet they all voted for this incredible amount of money spent on these wars. host: that's roseann in wisconsin, this is new york, republican. caller: good morning. i have a few things to say. this war in ukraine we are supporting it. i believe it was $3 billion last week that was missing from the pentagon. no one is talking about what's happening with their borders.

we have an invasion of 180 different countries. i'm from new york, i lived through 9/11. how about the 60,000 tons of explosives that went off a train that just disappeared coming from or going to california that none of our elected officials are speaking about? the same day that happened, our elected officials were issued satellite phones. host: any thoughts on the debt limit agreement? caller: yes, it's all smoke and mirrors. everybody is talking about mega republicans whatever that is, i don't even know. but we have democrats want to mutilate our children. host: we will go to lenny in new jersey come a democrat, good morning. caller: hi, good morning.

am i on the air? host: you are, what are your thoughts on the debt ceiling. caller: my concern is that government is getting a little too big. i think our forefathers back in the day, i don't think envision government to be this big. i found out from the previous callers, people that rely on the government for services were the ones that are mostly democrats. the democrats use that as leverage to keep their power. i think government, just like you and me, we all have budgets and we all spend within reasonable limits. the ones that say the government of our country ignores that and

how does that set an example for you and me to say government doesn't care about spending, why should i care? it's set at the top and when the people at the top disrespect spending, it kind of filters through to the people that also live in that country because they see that as an example. if government is responsible, it reflects back on the people that they should do the right thing. host: when was the last time government was responsible in your mind? caller: i don't know. in regards to what? spending? host: in regards to spending. caller: in regards to spending, i don't know. when was the last time we had a supposedly balanced budget, 20 or 30 years ago? host: our last caller in this first segment. stick around, two more hours to go in and the next 45 minutes or

so, we will talk with one of two top magazine executives. rich lowry of the national review, the editor will join us in later will you be joined by the editorial director of the nation magazine. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv saturdays on c-span2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 8 p.m. eastern on lectures with in history, university of akron professor kevin kern talks about the men from ohio elected president including the seven that served between 1858 and 1920. at 9 p.m. eastern, tom hanks,

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when i was trying to accomplish something in life, i said i couldn't do it. very self pitying. then i would be like ok, you can't wallow all day, go work. i was writing down on notepads what to do or i was running for state senate, i walk out the door and can go knock on doors and i can do something. here, what can i do? i have this feeling of unbelievable anxiety and i can sleep. i am in pain and i'm trying to exercise but i can't. i was lost. >> adam smith with his book lost and broken sunday night at 8 p.m. on q&a. you can listen to all of our podcasts and are free c-span now app -- our free c-span now app. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this. it looks like this where

americans can see democracy at work and where voters are truly informed straight from the source onilted, unbiased, word forward. from the nation's capital to where ever are, you -- is the opinion that matters the most is yours. this is where to him -- this is what democracy looks like. powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: rich lowry is back with us . viewers know him as the editor of the national review. what lessons should republicans take from the debt ceiling debate this year? guest: it's important for republicans to get that initial vote and pass the bill out of the house. they didn't think mccarthy could do it any did it. the white house really thought they wouldn't be able to do something like that and they

could jim a clean debt ceiling down their throat and that didn't happen. the deal is unsatisfactory in many ways but republicans got something out of joe biden when he was determined not to give them anything. all sorts of gimmicks will be involved in some policy reforms, marginal increase in work requirements on food stamps and permitting reforms and some incentives to get congress to do his job in the future and pass appropriations bills rather than the enormous omnibus bill at the end of the year. all that is good but does this solve our fiscal problems? no. host: is the speakership safe from internal challenge? guest: this is the main obstacle to him.

he would have to go to democrats to pass this which he did. they thought there would be revolt based on that but there won't be. based on the right part of the caucus, this is a strike against them and it makes it more likely they might try to get him taken down next time around but so far, mccarthy has performed amazingly well as speaker given all the votes in the drama it took him to get there, it seems he would be incredibly weak. he was incredibly daft and the beginning of wisdom is keeping her caucus together. this is the secret to mitch mcconnell success over the year and mccarthy so far has been able to do that. the fallout from this will be a major challenge going forward. i think he has performed better than reasonably could have been suspected. host: the debt ceiling has been

suspended until after the next presidential election in january of 2025. should republicans have fought harder to have this debate again during the 2024 election leading up to the election? guest: i'm not so sure. given the way these things balance, you can end up being blamed when you think the other guy won't be blamed. it's a risk to both sides. some of my colleagues suspect there is not a dollar amount on the extension. apparently, that something republicans wanted because technically they haven't voted to extend the debt limit to any given number. i'm not sure how much that matters one way or another. if you are the white house, you weren't going to negotiate and

inevitably, it was going to be unsustainable so if that's your standard, you suffered a bed defeat. if your standard is to get through this and push it past the election with no economic turbulence, you haven't given it much. that metric makes is a success for the white house as well. host: national review. calm and you've written lot about the 2024 election. the average of polls the latest numbers as donald trump at 53% in the republican primary and ron desantis at 22%. everybody else is in the low single digits. do you think those numbers provide an accurate picture of the state of the republican primary right now? guest: yes, if you want to beat donald trump and be the guy above 50%. the key inflection point is the criticism of desantis maybe announcing earlier or been more aggressive pushing back against

trump earlier. the key inflection point in the six months of this year -- trump would pop up above 50% but his indictment actually increased his numbers. desantis did not lose a huge amount but lost some. they are just trading voters back-and-forth. there is volatility in the national numbers. the early states make a huge difference and the desantis people are confident about iowa and will focus on iowa. you want to see the national numbers tighten up some but the main thing is being competitive in iowa and potentially win iowa and the answer is yes. host: a euro for politico is

anti-trump strategy to might actually work, ron desantis the first republican since 2016 who is playing to win. what do you mean? guest: we've heard criticisms of donald trump, quite fierce criticisms from liz cheney and other republicans who were likely to retire or lose primaries. this is the first time we have heard full frontal criticism of donald trump by someone who intends to have a future in republican politics and intends to define republican politics. the dissent is criticism of trump has been in some respects carefully crafted which is important. he's not attack him on character or january 6 or any of that. he is pushing back forcefully, capture pushing discounter punching on issues for conservative voters.

he is making the broader case that trump cannot win in trump cannot govern those of the reasons he is a poor choice and he is shown no fear whatsoever of trump and i think that's important. we didn't know that was necessarily true before he got in. host: give us an example of what you referred to in that column. ron desantis after his announcement went on the been schapiro show. [video clip] >> by moving left, this is a different guide in 2015-2016. he attacked me for opposing an amnesty bill in the congress. he did support this, 2 million illegal aliens he wanted to amnesty and i opposed it because that's what america's first principle dictates is that you are put to amnesty and he attacked me for voting against and on that is spending bill

that racked up a huge amount of debt for this country. yes, i voted against the omnibus, he signed every omnibus that was put on his desk. it's odd that he's doubling down on his position that those were instances in which his actions did not match his campaign rhetoric. i also think the difference between 2015 and 16 and now is that i is chief executive florida in his as the united states, we both responded to covid-19 in the way we did. he responded by elevating anthony fauci and turning the reins over to dr. fauci and i think to terrible consequences for the united states. i was the leader in this country in fighting back against anthony fauci. host: those statements from ron desantis? guest: as you can see, he wants to get to trump's right to the extent he can. people forget in 2016, trumps

strength -- he was supported by very conservative voters, somewhat conservative voters and you have moderates. trumps strength in 16 was the somewhat conservatives. over time, it kind of switched in trump is now strong with very conservatives and dissent this is strongest with somewhat conservatives so he needs to win the very conservative voters. these are folks who are very conservative as they call themselves but identify with trump and they voted for trump twice. they like him and they hate his critics may feel defensive of him and they liked what he did as president. you are not going to win them over by saying trump was a terrible person and is unfit for service. you can win them over by saying trumps a lot of good stuff but he has changed. he's not the same and he didn't do a lot of the things he

promised and i am the better meant to get it done. i'm not sure it will work but if you are betting on this race, you're betting on donald trump. there is no question that desantis is in the game. host: one of donald trump's defenses is that ron desantis has changed. the trump campaign released a video on the truth social account highlighting the times that ron desantis praised donald trump. [video clip] >> donald trump is done a better job of appointing judges then and a republican president in modern times, and a republican president in modern times. donald trump wrote the art of the deal. he knows how to negotiate. he is a master negotiator. trump instinctively is tough on china.

they respect a strong horse and trump is a strong horse. no one was willing to talk about that until he came on the scene and he is leading with purpose and conviction. president trump follow through on that. donald trump got a heck of a lot done. i think president trump kept his work. other presidents have promised it and they reneged on their promise. he kept his promise but he said we are going to deal with this one way or another. just think of how big a mess this president inherited from barack obama. yes, north korea, iran, isis, china on the move, rush on the move, syria in disarray, he inherited all of that. he made a remarkable turnaround in a think he deserves credit. host: does ron desantis have to walk back each of his remarks? guest: we have heard from him a little bit on this. he said the other day he didn't want to criticize donald trump.

trump is still getting criticize from the left all the time. there are a lot of things he says i liked about donald trump a lot of things i thought were but there are also things he failed on. he will emphasize those. he will make it harder for him to try to do his job. this is a pretty good hit for trump, portraying desantis on the establishment make sense for trump and minimizing his accomplishments in florida and saying the state was already on a good trajectory in it's 80 degrees and sunny at times. all that makes sense but trump is such a fierce fighter and he uses any tool at hand. he has attacked desantis in ways that make no sense. it opens a up to a counter volley. he makes fun of the name but i don't think any of that works or

helps trump. attacking him on his covid response and saying cuomo was better didn't -- then dissent does enables ron desantis. he said trump was wrong and went along with dr. fauci. i think a more focused approach would work for trump. what's work for him in the past is just attacking on paul france as hard as he can until he finds something that works. our focus in this segment is on campaign 2024. rich lowry is our guest, the editor of national review. you can join the conversation, (202) 748-8000 for republicans, (202) 748-8001 for democrats, (202) 748-8002 for independents. we begin on the line for independents, carol in texas, go ahead.

caller: good morning and thank you for c-span and thank you for taking my call. i appreciate it. i just want to make a comment about the debt ceiling first. that was how important it became . think about how important that five days became that janet yellen found on the debt ceiling fight. look at your calendar, it's june 2 and if she hadn't found the extra five days, we were going to default in the last time we get push this far toward default , our bond rating got lower. there were a lot of people behind the scenes, unelected appointees and staffers who carried the load getting this across the finish line. as far as the republicans or the democrats and congress, everybody wants to pat themselves on the back. i don't really pat them on the

back because all they did was they did their job nobody really pats me on the back at work when i go to work and do my job. that's what i'm paid to do. that's all congress did this time. they just did their job. it was people behind the scenes, look out important the extra five days was. host: we got your point, on janet yellen and the folks behind the scenes? guest: i don't know how they found the additional five days but they'd did. if they hadn't, it probably changes the timeline. a journalist has a deadline you very rarely file before your deadline. it's the same thing with congressional negotiators and white house negotiators in a situation like this. it's important to underline that we would not have instantly defaulted if we past the

deadline. other spending would have been constrained or not going out the door to do the payments we absolutely had to make. it wouldn't have been his fault. it's not as though if the deadline were midnight, minute past that, we would not have been default. host: this is danny, independent, good morning. caller: thank you and good morning. forgive me if i drop a call, if terrible phone service. i was going on the news of the week about the attorney general in texas. recently called is i think he filed a lawsuit, maybe it was a dropbox election, maybe that's where it was?

guest: you are asking whether he sued over drop boxes? caller: yeah, he was questioning the election results or something, remember that? guest: i don't know every detail but yes. caller: eric schmitt, her senator jumped right on top of that and i wondered that election questioning was part of his ouster. i will let you answer and have a good day. guest: thank you. i must confess, i have not followed it closely. i just read the headlines but there have been interesting debates between ron desantis and trump over this. where ron desantis has said you shouldn't have ballot harvesting , you don't want extensive widespread vote by mail where people are auto mike lee sent ballot but the states have those policies and we as republicans should take advantage of them and i will ballot harvest and

there was a vote they came up to him and to -- at an event. if they have those rules, i will do it and try to match the other side. they say don't vote by mail which is idiotic decision because you are limiting your pool of voters and depending on all of them showing up on one day. that just made no sense. ron desantis is calling him out on that but ron desantis is not said you are lying about the election being stolen but he has found a way to criticize his conduct during the 2020 election. host: republican, dover, new hampshire, one of the memory states. you are on. caller: good and thanks for taking my call. i wanted to say that i really think mr. donald trump and ron

desantis should team up and work together and put aside their differences. i know a lot of people that feel the same way. we think they would make a good team and i like to hear what you would say about that. host: before you go, there are seven more candidates jumping into the race next week. there is some speculation about your governor, chris sununu. would you like to see him join? caller: i thought mr. sununu did an ok job as governor. i respect the guy but he didn't do as good as i would have liked. i didn't think chris sununu handled covid very well. i think he was very wishy-washy on covid. we are live free or die in new hampshire and i don't think he

governed that we during covid. host: on a desantis/trump ticket? guest: that ticket is not going to happen. i think the caller represents a lot of republican sentiments. the poll a couple of weeks ago has one of these polls with trump ahead of dissent is to-one. the pole has first and second choices. a lot of trump voters are totally cemented and don't want to hear an -- anything negative about them but many are willing to look at ron desantis and are friendly toward him. that doesn't mean there is any chance -- trump will do everything he can to destroy and crush ron desantis and if ron

desantis beats trump, there's no way he wants to be associated with him. either -- i have heard the sentiment from other republicans. it's not realistic. host: what about chris sununu or mike pence or chris christie? what is the path for one of these candidates? guest: my attitude is let everyone get in. there are often times surprises in these races. right now it looks like a trump-desantis race but anything can change. maybe ron desantis totally fades out. maybe tim scott or someone else surprises us and catches fire.

if you don't want trump to win and i think all three the of the gentleman you mentioned, you need to get out. if you are at 2%, get out. you have a bunch of people at 2%, you could take 15% or whatever of the caucus vote and put trump over the top. that's to be avoided but it's no problem with these guys getting in and giving it a go. host: rich lowry, the editor of national review is error guest. he is also the author of several books. his most recent is the case for nationalism that came out in 2019. taking your calls on the phone lines as usual for republicans, democrats and independents. this is gerard in greenville,

south carolina, democrat. caller: good morning. joe biden did a great job. he thought for the american people and foster the soldiers that came home. it's always your republicans that knock everything that man does. leave that man alone and let him do his job as a president. i hope we have him for four more years. thank you, have a good day. guest: i think it was significant yesterday. his fault that he had at the air force academy graduation ceremony. we can all fall but he has a gate now - gait that's

shuffling. it looks familiar if you have an elderly person in decline. you hold your breath every time he or she walks across the room. i wonder how sustainable this is for him as president of the united states. i hope he lives to be 100 and is completely robust. my concerns are shared by a lot of voters. i wonder whether he will be the candidate in 2024 and whether something will happen that will make democrats realize this is not sustainable. the idea that he will be president of the united states until 2029 strikes me as preposterous. biden is -- if biden is the nominee, democrats will be teetering on the edge. something terrible could happen at any moment and it could happen to any of us at any moment but particularly at that

age and what seems to be his state. i'm not saying it to be mean-spirited, i don't want anything bad to happen to him. the reality is in front of us. host: if joe biden is not the candidate in 2024, from your perspective, who is the next democrat that republicans should be most worried about? guest: that's a good question. they shouldn't be worried about kamala harris. i think she lacks the political touch. gavin newsom i think looks like a president and he is charismatic. he is usually ambitious but the problem is he's associated with a cultural radicalism in california that will be hard to sell in a general election.

the democrat for folks to be most worried about is the generic democrat, the senator is relatively moderate compared to the rest of the party who wouldn't be a lightning rod and could serve as the default candidate away joe biden did against donald trump, assuming donald trump is the nominee. there is an argument about the republican nomination. i think ron desantis has an -- i think trump is an easy way of getting joe biden out for the generational contras alone would be hard for joe biden to get over. biden is lined up perfectly against trump doesn't mean he will beat him. i think donald trump can win but he would be the riskiest choice for republicans to make. host: was the ron desantis launch on twitter a good idea? guest:no, it wasn't.

if they want to be doing something different, that's good. successful presidential candidates write their own rules and do it a new way. it's true barack obama and donald trump. part of the wrap of against you is that your campaign is already have dead which was the conventional wisdom is of a couple of weeks ago and you are a stiff, there was -- do a huge rally in a picture race place like miami or wherever and have 5000 people waving american flags and be on the state with your beautiful wife and adorable children and get that picture everywhere. every network on tv will cover it and it will be the front page of every newspaper. then you go backstage immediately to talk to elon musk.

you get the best of both worlds. doing the twitter thing alone was too clever, a missed opportunity. host: to florida, this is teresa, republican, good morning. caller: good morning, it's a pleasure to speak to both of you especially on my bucket list. i love the national review and grew up with it on the table of my parents coffee table. it actually turned my right side a little further right. guest: thank you. caller: it's a real pleasure. i have to say, i am an optimist and i'm hoping for the best for the country. i think this business of all these people at 1%, they need to

get out fast. the republicans sometimes are like herding cats. they need to get unified start making some decisions. political science is tricky you've got to be on top of it. i think ron desantis is the main thing and i would like to keep him here. win or lose it's our win. if i ever have a hurricane, i want ron desantis at the leadership post. i've been through many of them minutes been a nightmare. when he came in coming knows how to lead and get things done, we love him. guest: he's been an ideological warrior in florida and that's top of mind for a lot of republican voters.

all that he's also been a good, confident -- competent governor. he follows through and gets things done so that would be another one of his calling cards in the presidential race. host: the caller was talking about growing up with national review. she may not know that you were appointed by william buckley himself back in 1997. what do you think william f buckley with think of today's republican party? guest: that's a great question. i think about that a lot. it's impossible to answer. he had well stated and well known foundational principles. he was idiosyncratic and very practical. i think he would take ron desantis as an example of the new republicanism we are seeing

80 or 90% of people are comfortably in the ballpark of traditional conservatism and he's been using government as a tool in the culture war but in most respects, totally appropriately. some will have to decide what the rules are and what they teach like school boards and localities state government. that's totally appropriate. the cases disney, a private company. he retaliated against them for something he said would not good. as he points out, they have been getting in norma's government favor. -- getting in norma's government favor. -- an enormous.

i think bill would be on board with a lot of but he would not like the disney controversy. host: we already so tweet from randy, this is? in bakersfield, california, independent. caller: thank. i may disagree with most of what you say but i defend your to save my last. i want to ask you about an article in the hill. it dealt with the rule that was necessary in order to get this bill to the resolute desk. do you think the freedom caucus will try to vacate the seat because speaker mccarthy cut a deal with minority leader jeffries to get the 52 democratic votes?

do you have any insight as to what jeffries was promised from mccarthy in order to get the rule on it? that's really unusual. usually the rule is passed by the majority party. i know what william f buckley would say about the republican party now. m he would treat theaga wing the same way he treated the john birch society. i invite you to do the same. thank you for your contribution. guest: thanks for the call. i would say vacate the chair, no, but to strike against mccarthy. when you are having trouble passing a rule, that's a problem. that's a side of major turbulence in your caucus. i don't know what, if anything, was promised to jeffries.

you had to be careful with the maga wing. there are conspiracy theories on the friends that we have been harsh about and have continued to do so. the maggot wing includes a lot of conservatives who are mistaken about donald trump or particular issues. they have the right intentions and they are sincere and believe 80% of what i believe. i am not denouncing those people. host: a few minutes left with rich lowry this morning, being the first friday of the month, it's a day when the jobs numbers come out from the bureau of labor statistics. we want to get your quick reaction to the jobs numbers. total nonfarm payroll increased in the month of may and the unemployment rate rose by three

percentage points. your reaction? guest: i'm not an economics guy 's on probably the worst person to talk about jobs. it seems like an ok report. people i know and trust and who know more about this than i do do think there is likely a recession coming in the next year. you have not seen it in the jobs numbers -- in the jobs numbers and that might be a lagging indicator that there is a recession ahead of us. two things i think are dragging -- three things i think are dragging biden down which is the sense that he's incompetent. the fact that inflation, real wages have been declining for quite some time now is very hard for a president to survive. and there are doubts about his

infirmities and his ability to carry out the job going forward. . host: a couple of more calls with rich lowry, vicky in austin, texas, democrat, good morning. caller: i have a, and a question. i am sick and tired of republicans calling stumbles over sandbags that are in people's way or stiff gauge. his infirmities? it's ridiculous. i judge biden on his judgment and his decision-making and his policies, not whether or not he has the agility of a 20-year-old. i tripped going up the stairs when i was 20 years old and i went on to graduate phi beta kappa and i am mensa. it has nothing to do with your cognitive ability. host: what is your question? caller: i am a retired nurse and psychologist and i have no

problems with joe biden's cognition. did marjorie greene work out a deal with mccarthy that she would vote yes on the debt ceiling in exchange for his releasing more of the january 6 footage to selective conservative outlets guest:? thank you. guest:i have no idea. host: fair enough, this is tina in florida, good morning. caller: good morning. since biden has been in office, i got a nice raise and social security and i appreciate the extra money. the unemployment rate is very low and the fact that ron desantis won the election was because the democrats didn't get out and vote. the 49% of the democrats did not get off of the couch and vote and that is why ron desantis won by a landslide. he is worse than trump.

he is a dictator and a bigot and will hurt the country if you gets into office. i can't believe you think good of him when he picks a battle with everyone around him. guest: this is an argument against ron desantis that you hear about from the left that he's worse than trump and a dictator. i think it makes zero cents. the problems with trump are related to character, his character failings directly led to him calling and question the 2020 election because it was a matter of ego, he couldn't admit that he lost. there is no indication that ron desantis shares those same character flaws. even though his substance is slightly different than a traditional republican, his approach is very conventional.

he doesn't engage in name-calling like we've seen with trump. dictatorship is honestly ridiculous. he won election in florida because people like just liked what he did the first four years. there is nothing to indicate he is authoritarian or can overturn our elections or anything like that. that is a feverish fantasy. host: last call with rich lowry, david out of san francisco, independent. caller: good morning, i've got an answer that rich missed. he was asked a little while back about the texas attorney general impeachment. the quick answer of course is texas was trying, he was trying to sucker texas into paying for his mistress. it's identical to what happened with stormy daniels, that american taxpayers got stuck paying for trump's mistress.

the attorney general's impeachment in texas is about a mistress being stuck onto the payroll or the taxpayers role. i was more interested in whether or not his publishing house believes in the social contract. we've got people like crow buying the supreme court justices. the idea that the social contract says we the people get to decide our fates rather than some pretender to a throne who is rich only by stolen money. where does his publishing house stand on the issue of the social contract? host: why not you chat about the national review in your final minute or so. guest: they didn't try to buy

clarence thomas. he is a friend of clarence and clarence thomas is literally incorruptible and there's zero evidence he's been inconsistent. if there is a criticism of him, he's consistent to a fault. that line of argument is part of a campaign to deal with the court. the president could effectively destroy the court by packing it so that some not an argument i would make of them talking about the social contract. packing the court would be a huge violation of our system or the norms we have come to expect over decades and decades now. host: ricloy is editor at national review, national review.com to see their work.

you can find them at rich lowry. we appreciate your time on "washington journal". guest: really enjoyable and thanks for listening. host: coming up, we will be joined by the nation magazine editorial director. we will hear her take on campaign 2024 and political news of the week that until then, its open forum, any political or public policy issue, the phone lines are yours to do so. the numbers are on your screen to start calling in now and we will be right back. >> fridays at 8 p.m. eastern, c-span brings you afterwords from book tv were nonfiction

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this is what democracy looks like. c-span powered by cable. "washington journal" continues. host: just before 9 a.m. on the east coast and we are in open form with any public policy or political issue, you can talk about. republicans, (202) 748-8000 democrats, (202) 748-8001 independence (202) 748-8002. just before 11 p.m. last night, the senate passed the debt ceiling compromise bill by a vote of 63-36. it's now on its way to president biden's desk for his signature and the president is set to speak about the legislation tonight at 7 p.m. eastern from the oval office. new job numbers today, the latest jobs report for may -- this is the wrap up.

we can talk about those stories in open forum for any issue you want to talk about area this is the part of the program will be let you lead. first set of california, independent good morning. caller: good morning. joe biden is the most corrupt president we have ever had. i notice all those papers in front of him. is there anything about the whistleblower that accused him

of taking $5 million? is there an article in there about that? host: i don't have it in front of me but i can google it for you. a lot of focus today on the debt ceiling but go ahead. you think the media is not covering him and a republicans doing enough to highlight those investigations on the biden family? caller: no, because it's not in the news. that's big news. all the papers and nbc and all those stations don't say a word about it. it's all trump, trump, trump but not one thing about biden. he is corrupt and that's way -- why we had a chinese balloon floating over us. he goes and shoots down three

weather balloons with $350,000 missiles. this guy is incompetent and corrupt and you people who vote for him are idiots, thank you. host: this is bob in florida, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you. i want to say that the news media including c-span refers to people on the right as conservatives. they are not conservatives. they are reactionaries. they want to turn back to the 1950's but to the 1850's. they are dangerous people, delusional as far as calling people who voted for biden idiots, think of what we have accomplished. thank you. host: what should folks on the left be called? liberals? progressive? what you prefer.

this is jackie in philly, republican, good morning. caller: good morning, i just took a drink of water and i heard you say my name. i may trumpster and i was watching ron desantis and the reaction to what he was saying. trump keeps on winning. i love it because i voted for him and i also sang a song i made up myself way back when he was running. i forget the girls name who was on but i sang it. it's called make america great again. he needs a new name now. i think we will call him the don. that's it, i want to say that i am still for donald trump. something about him, he keeps winning. host: this is terry in boone,

iowa, independent. good morning, donald trump will be in iowa this week campaigning for the republican nomination. your thoughts? caller: why are we not talking about the elephant in the room this morning and that would be hunter biden and his corrupt dad. the first caller was correct. $5 million, you guys have not had an iota of the 1022 form that needs to be brought into public and there was a reason the fbi doesn't want it in the public. they want to be speculation like everything else they have done. the government is corrupt, you need to wake up. joe biden is ripping america off he's done it for years. how do you think the man went from nothing to owning all the homes and the money he has now

on his salary as a senator? are you kidding me? these are kickbacks, paybacks. hunter biden's paintings, what about those? my grandchildren paint better than that and he's getting $500,000 for a painting? that's a payoff. host: peer is one of the latest stories from this week on hunter biden --

that's a cbs news story from two days ago. this is bob from utah, caller: caller: democrat, good morning. good morning. i just want to statement on insanity and guns. one third of the people killed by guns, alcohol is part of it, the main cursive that. -- is the main source of that. ok to go out -- grab a gun, go to town. something should be said at least. thank you. host: st. louis, missouri.

dave, a republican. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. is anybody on the republican side discussing if trump and santos would pair up and have them on the ticket together and run without this primary? much like biden is doing with the democrats? host: we talked a little bit about that in the last segment. were you able to watch rich lowry? caller: i was away from the tv. host: do you think it would be a great idea? rich did not think it was likely given how much these campaigns are going at each other. who would you like to see at the top of the ticket if that were to happen? caller: i would like to see trump at the top because he could have four years of setting things on the path to go. and then desantis takes over another eight years at the top of the ticket.

they run back to back with each other and you shoot for a 12 year program. host: who would you like to see four years down the road? who do you think desantis should pick up as vice president? caller: you could have your primary like you wanted to have right now and have the other candidates who wants to run with him. it would be his choice who he would want to pick. but that would be part of the campaign they could put out right now. for the first four years it is trump/desantis, and then after that, ask desantis who he would pick to be his running mate the next eight years. host: that is dave in missouri. james in harvey, louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning. i love this gentleman. we need to read the constitution. i do not think you can have a president and vice presidential

candidate from the same state, according to the constitution. host: i am not sure i have heard that one before. caller: i think it is in the constitution. i will look it up while i'm talking to you. speaking of the constitution, section four of the 14th amendment, the validity of our debts. our elected officials do not seem to be aware of the primary document governing them. one of our residents praised the work of our legislative people.

we have got republicans here, democrats, more republican, more conservatives. but they are able to stick to the constitution. host: and those requirements in the constitution, you have to be a natural born citizen, 35-years-old, that you have been a resident of the united states for 14 years. those are the requirements. democrat in florida. good morning. caller: how are you doing? host: good. go ahead. caller: this is open forum. it is pride. month i am a transgender male and i am loved by my conservative catholic family. i am often called harmful tropes that negate my own harmful

assaults as a child. completely negate my mother and parents when it comes to their rights. i want to remind people that. search did a study and survey -- oew research did a study and survey and maybe people should get to know us before spreading misinformation about us. also, i want to remind people that no hormones that are life-changing are given to youth. they are called blockers. it blocks something for the moment they are ready. please get your information. we are dying. it is pride 2023. i run witch's truth and it is full of hate. if you are transgender or lgbtq, i love you and you are valid. thank you, c-span, for what you do. host: it was during last year's pride month in june 2022 that

that pew research came out. america's complex views on gender identity and transgender issue. pewresearch.org if you want to check that out. some of the numbers there. this is veronica in texas, democrat. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, ma'am. caller: sorry. i had two statements regarding the open forum section. on the gentleman that called earlier that said democrats were idiots for voting for president biden. one thing we do not do is try to go to bank of america and wells fargo and commit wire fraud. democrats tend to be more caring

people. every democrat i have ever met has worked their own life. we owned businesses and we worked. i do not expect people to give me anything but we pay into the system. that is what tax dollars are for. they are for the needy and to rebuild the country, keep your cities clean, things like that. i don't understand why republicans cannot admit that they were wrong. they are voting for a criminal. he is not winning. he has lost ever lawsuit he ever filed. that is all i have to say. host: a few minutes left in the open forum. any political issue you want to talk about. the line for republicans, democrats, and independents as usual. later this friday evening president biden is set to address the nation about the debt limit deal. the legislation on his desk now for signature.

7:00 p.m. eastern is when he will speak from the oval office. you can watch it on c-span live tonight and on the free mobile app, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. back to your calls. sharon in dayton, ohio, republican. caller: yes. i wanted to ask people to vote for trump. he is the only one that has tried to save the country from people like biden, who really does not care about the people in the united states. he has brought in people that are not from our country and giving them everything that should go to our people. our children are starving and have had a bad time trying to keep things going in the world. i don't think biden should be president.

he is not the best person for the country. host: mark in amanda, ohio. good morning. caller: appreciate all you do on c-span. i listen to some of these callers. the main problem we got is the decline of america. it do not take a genius when you are $32 trillion in debt and what do you have to show for it? our infrastructure is falling apart. $32 trillion is more than you could imagine. we will not even be able to pay the interest on that. we are talking about transgender and all this and climate change. if we do not change, we have got the worst president. i will call him a puke, because that is what he is. host: we will hold off on the

name-calling. ruth in missouri, democrat. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i think there should be an age limit on presidents. both biden and trump is too old to be running for president. i think there should be an age limit. stop at 60. and a lot of those senators, they are too old to be up in congress. when you are seeing them on tv they are sitting there nodding. this is the most dysfunctional country in the world. that is all i wanted to say this morning. host: tommy in longview, texas, independent. caller: can you hear me? host: i can. caller: what i want to do is ask everybody that gets on this call that hates trump, hates biden, this is the perfect time for the

third party. i call it the people's party. it seems to be everybody out there that wants to vote needs to know there is a platform out there that is as serious as it gets if everybody will go there. we are going to do term limits. we are going to take the money out of politics and have fair taxation. my question is why doesn't everybody out here register to run for their seat under this party? if everybody did it, this could be a reality. it is kind of like a revolution by democracy vote. i just don't understand why it is not out there right now. i think it is because people do not believe that it can happen. but apparently, unless i am wrong, why can't everybody on this phone register to be in that party to do that platform? host: who do you see leading the

people's party? caller: i see people that are not in politics. my question would be, like, liz cheney or somebody that tells the truth. maybe nicole wallace, rachel maddow kind of people. i know everybody hates them but they tell the truth. it just needs to be somebody that tells the truth because if you put this platform out there, it is a serious platform and everybody thinks they can vote for that, and they can. if somebody is running and they are registered and they are in the ballot of every seat -- host: the platform is term limits, fair taxation, money out of politics. what is unfair about the tax code and how would you change it? caller: i would change it so everybody pays taxes. when i was a kid -- i'm 65 -- when i was a kid, everybody who had the money lived at the lake or up on the hill or in the big

house. they had more money than anybody and they paid 70% something tax. and all the men around my daddy had good jobs that pay living wages and everything was fine. when i say fair taxation i mean tax everybody fair, like it used to be. host: when you talk about money out of politics, what you mean by that? caller: plain and simple, no more money in politics. if we win this thing, if the people can take this thing back, we go in and say, no more money in politics. host: should individuals still be able to donate to a candidate they want to get behind? caller: individuals will be able to but only individuals. host: and then on term limits. how long is too long to be in congress or the senate? caller: eight years for

everybody. you get two terms for congress, senate, president, and even the supreme court would have to become limited, with qualifications, to be nominated. as far as the term limits ago, everybody that wants to jump on this wagon understands from the get-go. you get two terms of four years. after those eight years you can run again after you run eight years and have been out eight years. that is the plan. host: that is tommy's plan. this is brenda in fort lee, new jersey, democrat. caller: good morning, america. i'm calling in regards to having a comment about president biden. i'm so disappointed. i have always been a democrat but i find in the last year things are not going right.

the president does not do good for us. i listened last night on sean hannity. he had on president trump. i kind of like the things he said he has done in the past that i know of. i'm going to change from democrat to republican. i really am so disappointed on president biden. he does not do anything for the american people. shame. on him. host: did you vote for him in 2020? caller: i did. i voted for president biden. host: what did you like about him in 2020? caller: he promised a lot of things he was going to do for the american people. once he got in, he was not in one day. he sat down and changed so many different things.

the pipeline, he said he was not going to put -- continue putting up the fence to keep people out of the country. host: wasn't that some of the things he promised to stop? stop the wall, stop the keystone pipeline. were those not the promises? caller: no. all of the union people lost their jobs and we lost the pipeline. president biden has so much to learn and he is, to my knowledge, not doing the right thing. i will tell you something. it is time for change. he has some nerve thinking he is going to get in. host: time for one more call. teresa in illinois, republican. good morning. caller: yes. i just do not understand.

i have nothing against transgenders or anything like that, but i do not understand how they can take my irish rainbow flag. i'm looking for a pot of gold. i want people to quit taking things from others and claiming it as theirs. these kids today are so coddled. i think of a boss raised their voice, are they going to stand in a puddle of pee-pee? biden, i would not have voted for him for no amount of money. illinois has got the most politicians that have gone to prison. we are taxed to death. if you want to see chicago, you are lucky to get out with your

eyes still in your head. there were so much corrupt that i do not recognize this world. host: our last caller in this open forum. we will be joined by editor katrina vanden heuvel. we will get her take on campaign 2024, the debt limit, and the drama of the past week. stick around for that discussion. we will be right back. ♪ announcer: c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of washington, live and on-demand. keep up with the day's biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns, and more from the world of politics, all

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it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work. our republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capitol to wherever you are. it is your opinion that matters the most. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we welcome back to the program can trina vanden who will, editorial director -- we welcome back to the program katrina vanden heuvel, editorial director for the nation. was it a good compromise from your perspective? guest: good morning. it could have been worse. it could have been worse. i think progressive democrats

should work to avoid another scenario where republicans are keeping hostage the american people. the savage cuts that were first on the table, mostly to women and african-american women, are still there but fewer. there is a kind of -- much of the media talks about the extreme right and the extreme left. the extreme left wants to make sure this is a healthy country. that you have tax teachers held accountable -- cheaters accountable. but i think he gets characterized wrong. i think the caucus stood strong. there were people that voted no and explained why.

i hope this country will not be held hostage again to this process. a lot of spectacle at the end of the day. it is not clear how it rebuilds a healthier country. host: we are set to hear from president biden tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern and you can watch it live on c-span and c-span.org. what do you want to hear from president biden tonight? guest: you know, it is a cliche but that the fight goes on. this is a session in a longer fight to take on the forces of money, the forces of corruption, and to talk about how politics -- and i could hear your callers -- politics as being a crass, craven, highly transactional game. it is transactional but it should also be transformational.

politics at its best improves the conditions of people's lives, especially those lives which need, you know, need a lifeline that government has provided. it could be a boost. it could be bigger than that. but i hope biden speaks about a country that is still in great need. i know he will probably reference, maybe, ukraine. i'm not a pacifist by any measure but i do believe we do better by getting our own house in order before we go out into the world. which does not mean we do not work with others to bring peace. but i hope there is some reference to working with others and trying to build a world that is not riven with military

engagement. i would recommend to your listeners is the 60th anniversary of john f. kennedy's speech where he spoke about the importance of peace and ending more as a way of reconciling differences. host: katrina vanden heuvel, editor and publisher at one of the oldest progressive magazines. what does it need to be a progressive in the year 2023? guest: very good question. liberal has been a term -- the nation at its best, the nation magazine, may be the nation is at its best when it is a forum of debate between liberals, progressives, the left, conservatives with a conscience. most of all the nation is independent and on some issues we have not cited with the

liberal progressive community. the majority of that community in 2003 sided with the decision to go to war with george w. bush in iraq. i think progressive means fairness, a level playing field, means getting money, corporate money, out of politics. i was struck watching howard dane. i do not know if your viewers remember howard dane. he was an unusual player and then he ran for the democratic national committee chair. he spoke about the coming election and what he really fixed on was the party of money. the party of money is the party that will decide, to some extent, which candidate. we are talking republican here. i think that is a dangerous measure and a corruption of society. i think bernie sanders changed

our politics in important ways. one way -- remember, i cannot even remember now, but it was like $20. give me $20. but he had a number that was affordable and it showed that the ordinary people could participate in our political process. the money gains, on many sides, has been too dominant in our politics. host: is joe biden a progressive for those on the left that have concerns that this bill was too harsh for things like new work requirements? concerned about deals made whether it was infrastructure or the chips act. should joe biden be worried about the progressives as he runs in 2024? guest: joe biden is perhaps the

most pro-labor president we have had in decades. perhaps since roosevelt. he has allowed level playing field. he has spoken about his industrial policy for this country, which means rebuilding many elements of this country. he is also a liberal. i think he is doing a job that is as good as you can do at this point with the configuration of forces in washington. however, it would be important -- and i do not see it happening -- to have, as we saw in 2016, a populist force inside the party running against biden. it would push him to take positions he otherwise does not have to touch.

i think that is a measure where he will get more of a free ride. the nation are looking very close at house races, senate races, chief states. we are not at the moment making a case for candidate to run against biden. i think he has seen the problem with the trade policy that obama and clinton did not. i think that is a measure of reality, because trade -- trump won in 2016, to some measure, because it was felt they had forgotten workers that had been shafted by deals like nafta. there is reorientation of the democratic party in that arena, the economic arena. i think that is important.

host: coming up on 9:30. our guest in this last segment is katrina vanden heuvel of the nation magazine. thenation.com is where you can find that work. @katrinanation on twitter. republicans is (202)-748-8001, democrats (202)-748-8000, independents (202)-748-8002. starting on the line for democrats, carl in fulton, new york. caller: good morning, guys. i have a real problem with this. the debt ceiling and the budget are two totally different entities. i think president biden blew it. i do not think he should've condescended into having any discussions about the debt limit. these people were in congress

when these voted for these things and now they have to be paid for. why he even bothered. why president biden even bothered to have discussions about the debt ceiling is beyond me. i think he showed, i personally think he showed, weakness. i think he should have let the republicans run house and own this themselves. they have to pay for it. if president biden had just gotten on the bully pulpit and explained the situation to the american public more frequently, or had his representatives do so on tv, take it to the american people and explain this. i think the american people would have understood better and agreed with the progressive side of this. host: that is carl in new york. katrina? guest: i love what carl is saying. one of the options we proposed,

as did others, was taking the 14th amendment of the constitution. declaring debt -- president biden could have taken that step instead of negotiating with the republicans. it is the case -- and he said there were red lines and he would not negotiate, and then he did -- i think there was great pressure. the democratic party is not one party. there are different factions and there was a faction concerned about the markets, about stability, and what the courts would do with the 14th amendment and how long that would take. but i do believe people that have caused this debt should be the ones that are forced to address it. i never believed the republicans really cared about deficits. george w. bush's treasury secretary and dick cheney's vice president said, we do not care.

when we are in power the republicans make a visits that the hand -- make deficits that the hand off to others to take care of. i wish president biden had since the beginning found out of the way to communicate effectively with the american people. you talk about the bully pulpit. every president has had the media. he has chosen -- and roosevelt had radio fireside chats. i think biden could have modernized that tradition to talk to the american people. the media in this country is in need of real transformation. it is not permit people to speak directly. there is a lot of mediation, which confuses and convolutes, if you can say convolutes. i think it is difficult to talk

directly to the american people. certainly, biden has tried not to do that. host: mitchell in michigan, independent. good morning. caller: hello. i came across the federal budget which is not supposed to be balanced like the personal budget. i was wondering if you could explain that. guest: i think one of the most insidious images that has been purveyed these last years is the idea of a family sitting at a kitchen table trying to balance the family budget. families or people make decisions to invest in going to college or in acquiring something for a kid. the idea that it needs to be balanced has been hammered into our heads when it is good to run a good deficit if it is an

investment in a country and people. i think the ways we invest in this country are wasteful. i think of the fact this agreement is going to hurt debt relief for students, the future of this country. i agree that there needs to be new thinking about how we spend funds in this country for people. it is one of the central things, i believe, in reforming the tax code. the caller before brought it up. first of all, simplify. the simplest thing is to tax work at the same rate as wealth. the famous warren buffett story that his secretary is paying more taxes than he is. there were so much gaming the system because of the complexity. but ordinary people arguing shafted and i think there is real commitment in the house and

senate among progressives to rethink that and make change. but there is a lot of money invested in opposing change in that arena. host: the headline from politico , the debt deal limits pentagon spending. lawmakers already figuring out ways around it. democrats and republicans say a supplemental for ukraine could pad defense spending. that was the path to secure a vote ahead of a default deadline . with democrats in control of the senate, your thoughts on that move yesterday. guest: as i have said -- the defense department used to be called the war department. the defense budget is bloated at levels that are obscene. you want us to support veterans,

you want to support mental health care, but there are so many weapons we do not need. i think part of that right now with ukraine is fewer and fewer weapons. we have made them for decades in the pipeline is emptying out. i think what is critical in this next period is to redefine security so it is not a security that is met by weapons, but a security that knows how to treat pandemics, global inequality, nuclear proliferation. but the weapons we have are running dry as is the international pipeline, which is stunning considering the trillions invested over these last years. i think in the end more offensives in ukraine and now moving into russia may lead to

nuclear miscalculation, which is the real danger. two, how do we rebuild? a war-torn europe into russia and ukraine will be unstable for decades. this is not about a history that justifies anything. putin launched an aggressive war against ukraine. but how we move forward is often not spoken about and weapons are talked of. host: in louisville, kentucky this is richard on the line for republicans. caller: john durham's report said the russian dossier was perpetrated and brought to light by the hillary clinton campaign in 2016. my question to you miss is did

you advise hillary clinton to spend $10 million, $12 million to try to defeat donald trump? were you advising hillary clinton then? thank you. guest: thank you for your call. my late husband, who taught soviet history and politics for many years, wrote to column for the nation. i agree with him. i think the russiagate phenomenon is one of the instances of media malpractice. it was a waste of time for this country to listen to rachel maddow for five hours a week about russiagate. and i think the hillary clinton team made it up in order to avoid a bruising defeat by

donald trump. my russian friends -- i have been visiting moscow for 40 years. russian independent journalists were pulled because it made putin seem infallible. they are trying to expose him for different factors and the americans are saying putin was going to put a president in power. instead of focusing on america's real needs for five years this country blamed mostly everything on russia. and the steel dossier has been, how to put it, exposed? it was a fraud. the nation was divided on that and my husband took a lot of flak. but he was no putin puppet. he was the most interesting thinker.

boy, i think it has hurt our politics to this day and continues to. host: for viewers who may not know your background, how long have you been at the nation? guest: i have been at the nation since 1980 as an intern. i spent time in moscow reporting for the nation, the washington post. but i have been there as an intern and spent one third of my life. it has been a political boot camp, journalistic boot camp, and i think one of the great media institutions. from the telegraph to twitter to ai we have extraordinary and interns. some have won pulitzer prizes. we also have a cruise. august 13 for a week. host: what will be happening on that cruise? guest: we have been doing it

more than 25 years. christopher hitchens used to be our columnist. we have panels. really interesting people for a week. panels, visiting alaska, we hope to visit with the new congresswoman who defeated sarah palin. our former managing editor was governor of the commonwealth of alaska and two-term senator until he voted against the gulf position. we have gone to alaska two times and we do not meet with sarah palin but we do meet with veterans for peace. host: katrina vanden heuvel, editor and publicist at the nation. has been on this program 49

times, starting in 1993. she is with us for about 20 more minutes until 10:00 a.m. eastern. keith in denver, colorado, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i have followed you for years. [indiscernible] host: it is just too hard hearing on your line. call back in and will try to get you on. i apologize. christine, a democrat. caller: good morning. i had a quick question for your guest. i'm listening to her and one of her comments -- i have been a

registered democrat since i was 18-years-old. i am now 56 and i view the world a little differently. i think the democrat party is going a little bit too far. but my question is why don't democrats practice what they preach? it seems like there is a lot of wealthy democrats that are in government that own numerous houses. their kids go to the finest colleges in the finest private schools. they live a really good life. they write books, they make money, they buy stocks, and yet they are always preaching they want to help the middle class and the lower class. to your guest, it looks like she might be elite. it looks like she makes a lot of money and is worth a lot of

money. my question is, why don't democrats practice what they preach and live like the middle class like we do? host: katrina? guest: you are caller is asking an important question. she is focusing more on individual factors. i would say over the years leaders have found a way to speak to middle-class people but also through taxation. they have shown there is commitment to fair share economics. i am thinking about fdr, jfk, but i think the democratic party has failed in key ways in terms of using a tax code. many democrats talk about taxing the very wealthy and bringing

that money to bear on the needs of the most vulnerable. there is no question there has been a kind of sense of an elitist democratic party. but at the same time, the agency of the democratic party has, for the most part, tried to work with labor, tried to improve the working class lives. the republican party has gone full over into the darkness on the money front. there is no commitment to really assist through taxation, through money, which there is a lot of on the republican side. i would argue far more. we saw it with the debt ceiling fight. but the democratic party has to come back to some roots and that is why i would suggest progressives are different. if you have two political

parties, within the democrat party you have different factions. you have factions that believe trade deals may be bad for workers but we need them for the wealth of the wealthy. i am saying there are different democratic party's and i think there is a fundamental divide and a commitment on the part of the democratic party to repairing the lives of the most vulnerable working, middle-class, labor, which you do not see on the republican side. and there are other distinctions. host: focusing on that, factions within the democratic party. what is the largest faction? are all of these factions equal in the party? guest: it is a very good question. the progressive caucus, 101 strong, is stronger now due to the leader of the congresswoman from washington state. it is now voting more like a

block in a parliamentary sense. there are also blue dogs, the more centrist. my view of the center i think nancy pelosi -- who is maligned -- says what is at the center of people's lives that what matters. there is a kind of view in the country that the democrats have lost. but there are factions within the democratic party and there are factions, as you will know, within the republican party. the freedom caucus and others. this is what happens when you have one political party or two. in europe or other countries you have a parliamentary system and often 5% threshold where there are multiple parties. that does not assist or secure change effectiveness, but it is a different way of politics. host: what role did hakeem jeffries and his leadership team play in these negotiations on

the debt limit? guest: i think a more limited one because so much was behind the scenes by biden's choice. there was the omb. i think there was frustration that there was not as much input as there might have been with pelosi. there was a meeting with biden but then there was an interest in more meetings, but that closed down. i think hakeem jeffries was the salesman to sell it to the democratic party. i do think there was a strategic decision that some voted no. but overall the progressive caucus or that the democrats pass this bill. but the caucus is playing a more important role then used to be the case decades ago. host: being the salesman to sell it to the democratic party.

paul kane, longtime reporter with the washington post, a deep dive on that topic today in today's washington post if you would like to remark. house democrats went from angry to rallying around the white house. there is the story. this is david in clinton township, michigan, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. during the 2016 primary i had heard a couple of times that the steel dossier and stuff concerning that was first brought about by lindsey graham as a way to discredit donald trump during that primary. once donald trump did win the primary, that is when hillary clinton took the steel dossier and ran with it. is that correct? guest: you know, i am not sure with graham, but it was a

republican operation at its conception. it moved to the hillary clinton team and they found it useful. it is a sordid history. it really corrupted our politics and it still corrupts our politics. so, how to put it, mutual providence of this dossier. we still do not know the full story of the different hands which worked this dossier to get to where it was. and then you had the aca report. this was the report issued by the 17 intelligence agencies. there were really three and one was not high confidence in support of this aca report.

but those were the two foundational documents. what is still not understood is the hacking. there is more research to be done on the hacking issue. i think the nsa could reveal its providence, but keeps it locked down. it was a disruptive force, toxic, terrifying the intelligence community. there was a reason that michael morel -- who has come up in our conversations as somebody who gathered signatures to support hunter biden -- he had a full page thread in the new york times on the people of the election. denouncing trump as a kremlin asset. he called him a kremlin asset. there are many things about

donald trump. he is boorish, toxic, i could go on for hours. is he a kremlin asset? the new york times just publishes that. i think it is a degradation and corruption of our media that we saw these last years still being repaired. a historian at american university, fairly young, who was called by the senate intelligence committee. the letter was how many times have you visited russia? how many students did you take to russia? who have you talked to the last week about russia? it reminded me of an area i studied on the mccarthy period. if you spoke out in dissent, you were equated with being the agent of another country's power. the corruption of our country still needs to be more clearly

looked at as we move forward. host: what should the media be doing to repair that relationship? guest: you know, to repair the relationship -- columbia journal did an important piece a month and a half ago by the former white house new york times correspondent. there have been others who have done some important work. i am at a group called the american committee for u.s.-russia accords. people can find that online. we publish materials trying to -- not justified -- but bring history to bear, to bring alternative views. there is a lockdown in the mainstream corporate media about coverage of u.s.-russian relations. host: less than 10 minutes left with katrina vanden heuvel of the nation magazine. this is john in new york,

republican. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. when they mentioned you were from the nation i said, oh boy. but i really appreciate your common sense. i would love to see two sides of the story. in the old days they used to have a republican and democrat sitting across from each other. they had a very civil discussion and they expressed their opinions and their interpretation of the events going on. and they had the pros and cons of different things but it was so beneficial to the american people. i think right now, the washington journal is falling short of that. you listen to the callers that call in. i did not listen to all of the callers today, but they are so divisive. i noticed a couple of times you

had two guests and they sat across the table and they gave both points of view. you can see where both were coming from. it was civil. i thought the callers calling in were not calling each other names. they were trying to come up with intelligent questions and they would get one point of view and then another. i wish you could get back to that. host: keep watching and i promise we will have those roundtables in the future. we continue to try to have those roundtables. i hope you keep watching. go ahead with your question. caller: a democratic caller said she was democratic and she is older now and she asked -- she kinda changed her opinions on the democratic party over time. she is in her 50's now. she had a question about the democrats, they preach one thing and it appears they are doing other things. but you mentioned, well, they do

things like pass these bills that are beneficial to the middle-class people to help them. but paying off student loans for people that signed off to take these loans out. you have these blue-collar workers and carpenters and plumbers. they are going to be footing the bill to pay for that. that bill is going to come out of the pockets of people who could not afford to go to school and made some different decisions or whatever. how can you explain that? guest: thank you. and thank you for your comments. i do believe we need a new media system that allows civil, intelligent debate. joe biden has done something

which few presidents have done. he has valued work like plumbing, carpentry, as an apprentice system that is supported and provided for. those are real jobs. not everyone needs to go to college, a four-your college. community colleges need to be better supported. i think it is good policy and good for the economy. if students could have a measure of debt relief, it will stimulate the economy, it will provide a healthy workforce. it is not for everyone. but i think it is wrong to say investment in our future -- this is an investment that has real potential. i hear the division but i think biden has been one of the few presidents to understand the importance of jobs that keep this country afloat.

and has pushed for policy in that arena. host: in the short time we have left on the president's push for student debt relief. guest: sorry. the debt ceiling is not helpful. the debt ceiling resolution, there is a lot cut out of that. but i do think it is an investment people should fight for. it is good for the country, it is good for people, families, students, the future. host: katrina vanden heuvel's publisher and editorial director of the nation magazine per you can find her on twitter @ katrinanation and thenation.com. always appreciate your time. wish we had more. thank you so much. guest: thank you. host: that is going to do it for our program today. a reminder, president biden is set to address the nation tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern from the oval office. you can watch on c-span and also on c-span now, also online at

c-span.org. we will see you back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, have a great friday. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> c-span funded these television companies and more, including cox. >> the syndrome is extremely rare. >> this is joe. >> when you are connected, you are not alone. >> support c-span as a public service along with these other

television providers. it giv y a front row seat to democrac >> saturday, republican presidential candidates nikki haley, mike pence, and ron der are speaking at the 2023ry fundraiser hosted by supporters of iowa senator joni ernst. watch live beginning at noon eastern on c-span, or online at c-span.org. >> c-span now is a free mobile app, featuring your unfiltered view of what is going on in washington. keep up with the biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearing from the u.s. congress. campaigns and more from the world of politics, all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of

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