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talk about the increased tension between the u.s. and china with foreign policy magazine editor jake palmer and carl charles on the wave of anti-lgbtq bills introduced in state legislatures this year and matt sharp with the lights defending freedom -- freedom with his organizations efforts to protect lgbtq issues. joining the conversation live at 7:00 eastern friday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. inues. host: welcome back. we are joined by scott wong the senior congressional reporter for nbc news, good morning. guest: good morning to you. host: let's talk about that stalemate on the house floor this week. how has it impacted the house ability to conduct business? guest: the house is not conducting any business at all.

the house is in a stalemate as you discussed on this program already. there were 11 conservative lawmakers, most of the members of the freedom caucus including as well as matt gaetz the congressman from florida. these are all conservative rabble-rousers, individuals who have been at odds with mccarthy, many of them opposed him for speaker. leadership in this case was blindsided when 11 of these individuals joined hands with democrats and blocked a procedural vote, a vote on a rule on the floor that took everybody by surprise including myself and many other long time congressional watchers and reporters. this is what happened since 2002. it was more than 20 years ago

that a rule had not been taken down on the floor. they blocked these four pieces of gop legislation from advancing forward. it froze the house floor. we have been in a stalemate for the past two days now. nothing has moved and kevin mccarthy is try to negotiate and tried to break an impasse with these conservative rebels. it's a very peculiar situation. republicans are in the majority but it is members of that majority, just a handful, that have ground the house of representatives to a halt. host: can you tell us a little more about the house freedom caucus members but matt gaetz is not technically a member. who are they, what do they

represent and what do they want? where are they coming from on this? guest: the freedom caucus was created back in 2015. this would have been in the john boehner europe. the really came out of the tea party movement of 2010. some of the more prominent members who have risen to high positions in recent years include mark meadows who is one of the freedom cork -- freedom caucus founders. he is significant because he eventually was first well known because he brought a motion to vacate of trying to force a vote to remove then speaker john boehner. that vote never happened but eventually, john boehner was facing in norma's pressure and was forced to resign and meadows went on to become the chief of staff for then president. there are number of other significant figures from the

freedom caucus who rose to high positions like jim jordan who is now the judiciary chairman, mick mulvaney who served as chief of staff for president trump. these are folks on the far right who were constantly creating headaches for their leadership. this new iteration is continuing to cause headaches for now speaker kevin mccarthy. the freedom caucus back in 2015 when john boehner resigned, kevin mccarthy stepped up to run for speaker of the house. the freedom caucus were the ones who blocked him at that time from becoming speaker, paving the way for speaker paul ryan. the leadership and the freedom caucus have been at its at each other's throats for years and years and is just the latest iteration of this long-standing

conflict between these two groups. host: we are talking this morning with nbc news senior congressional reporter scott wong. you can start calling in now with your questions or comments about this congressional revolt. republicans, your line is (202) 748-8001, democrats, (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text message. we want to get your calls but while we wait, what do we know what these members behind the stalemate, there are 11 right now, what do they want and what have they been asking for as they met with those republican leaders over the last couple of days? guest: we know what they are

upset about. they are upset about the fact that they believe there was some kind of arrangement or deal with kevin mccarthy back when he was negotiating the speakers gavel. remember the 15 rounds of voting were kevin mccarthy could not win the race for speaker. they say he had promised them that spending caps would be reduced to fiscal year 2022 levels. that was not with the spending caps look like in this latest debt deal with president biden. they did not cut spending that low. they are upset about what they perceive as the breach of a contract with kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy said that was aspirational and that was the goal and that's what we were trying to do but i never said it

in stone we were going to get there. separately, they are upset with what they perceived to be retaliation against one of their own members. the representative from georgia had a bill that he's been trying to get a vote on on the floor, a bill for protecting rights for weapons. he believes because he voted against a rule on the debt ceiling that he was facing retaliation in the leadership was trying to lock his bill from coming to the floor. leadership says we worked it out in a vote is scheduled on the bill for next tuesday. that issue seems to be resolved and some members are still bringing up the issue as wide they are holding up the floor.

this all goes back to spending. what these guys want is for the reductions to spending. the challenge is that we already have a deal between mccarthy and biden in this debt deal that establishes spending levels for the next couple of years. it's really hard to reopen those negotiations. furthermore, mccarthy talked to reporters last night after a long series of meetings and said it's not entirely clear what the specific wants are from the members of the freedom caucus. it's very nebulous that's part of the problem why they were unable to come to a resolution last night. host: before we go to calls, the news this morning has an interview with steve scalise, republican leader, the second in

command to kevin mccarthy. they aren't necessarily close buddies. in possible news this morning, it says we asked scalise if mccarthy had broken any promises to conservatives. his reply provides insight into the current state of the house gop leadership. short answer -- it is not good. here is house police responded. i don't know what the promises were, i wasn't part of that soy still don't know what those agreements were. whatever they are, conservatives feel the agreements were broken. that has to get resolved and hopefully it does. it doesn't seem -- it seems like there is a rift growing. tell us about the history between scully's and mccarthy. guest: mccarthy, it was always

tenuous that mccarthy was going to get to the speakership especially after 2015 when he dropped out of the speakers race and was wounded by the freedom caucus. there was always a big question hanging over mccarthy's head if he could get there. steve scalise was the number two official behind mccarthy all these years, he was seen as a possible alternative to kevin mccarthy. there had been a rivalry that developed between these two men. they are part of the same gop leadership team and they have to work together on legislation and have to bring bills to the floor and round of votes. both men served as the gop whip so they know that part of the operation. there is a long history between these two individuals.

they had made their peace after kevin mccarthy boasted the speakership early this year but the rivalry still seems to be there. because we are in the situation were nothing is moving on the house floor, there is a lot of finger-pointing it seems between these two camps. i think that's a little bit of what we are seeing.if you read between the lines of the comments that mccarthy has made and steve scalise has made, there is a little bit of blame game happening in this current impasse on the house floor. host: let's get to some calls, sarasota, florida, nick on the independent line. caller: good morning. i have a few quick comments. the freedom caucus is doing exactly what should be doing, trying to fight for taxpayers. biggest problem you have there now is democrats want to endlessly spend.

don't care about taxpayers or the debt. they talk big but it's all just spend what they want to. when there is resistance to that, then they get called extreme and crazy. there is nothing extreme about $32 trillion needing to be reduced. these people are trying to fight for it. mccarthy's problem is is he wants to be to accommodating but the democrats still have all this other stuff to spend on. here is a couple effects it never gets spoken about. united states is taking in more revenue now than it ever has because of the trump tax cut and they want to get rid of them. those are the ones that are bringing in the income. host: let's let scott respond. guest: kevin mccarthy yesterday said he feels a little like goldilocks was his comparison. he feels like he's being pushed

from all sides, from the right, from the left. mccarthy's challenges always that he needed to try to accommodate the conservatives in his party as much as possible while also getting a product through the democratic-controlled senate. that something the president of the united states, the leader of the democratic party would sign into law. that was always the needle he was trying to thread. to his credit, he successfully did do that in this latest debt deal. however, the conservatives, members of the freedom caucus, would not let him take that full victory lap. they will not let him bask in the glory too long and i think that's part of what you saw on the floor this week with the taking down of the rule and essentially freezing the house of representatives in place. host: let's go to nebraska, tom

on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have one question for you. it's got to do with mccarthy going over a lot of the people holding this up in the freedom caucus. they are from the trump europe. do you think mccarthy will go over to trump and asking for help? guest: i don't know the answer to that question. i know that mccarthy and trump frequently do speak to each other. currently talks about when he talked to him last and he said i spoke to him just the other day. there is a line of communication open between president trump remains to this day the front runner of the republican presidential race. there has been a good relationship there. trump obviously had spoken out

against this biden-mccarthy deal. for years and years, trump has been a key ally for kevin mccarthy and vice a versa. kevin mccarthy has been a defender of president trump and even as recently as last night, was still defending president trump against some of the investigations, the potential indictments that may be coming down the pipeline from special counsel jack smith. kevin mccarthy is still defending president trump to reporters in the capital. host: caller is patrick from naples, florida, democratic line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. the gentleman earlier new a little history of how they met the day that obama was inaugurated and tried to figure out how they can stop them from doing anything. this freedom caucus, the tea

party originally, their goal was to bankrupt our country so they could make it new. when they elected trump, they got the best guide to bankrupt the country because he's known for that. as far as the debt limit, that would do it. we need to look back and see who voted for what and see how many of them voted against raising the and see how many have voted for vladimir putin. that's his buddy. all right, thank you for taking my call. host: any reaction? guest: no reaction to that. host: we will move on to her next caller, stephen florida, independent line. caller: good morning. i have a comment. this entire congress, they are elected to do a job, they need to come together and do the job. they will test if they are not

going to do the job, we need to vote them out all of them. this back-and-forth doesn't make any sense. if you are working for the people, do your job. host: ok let's watch our language. this caller represents perhaps frustration. are you hearing that americans are watching congress and the house meltdown this week? could there be in impact for members back home? guest: the argument from kevin mccarthy and his allies is that these conservatives are blocking conservative legislation. two of the bills that would have been considered this week and would have gotten about yesterday and today have to do with a big conservative priority you heard a lot about -- protecting and saving gas

stoves. there are regulations being discussed on the local level in the state level and the federal level about harm from a mission from gas toes and the impact to the environment from gas stoves. republicans are saying we love our gas stoves and we want to protect them from any sort of regulation. those are two of the bills that would have been passed. they are largely messaging bills. they would not have gone anywhere in the democratic-controlled senate. there would not have been a practical impact but these were important bills to the republican party, the conservative base and their argument from leadership is matt gaetz and company is preventing these conservative priorities from advancing on the house floor. host: let's go to jacksonville,

florida, bill on the democratic line. caller: good morning. it seems are the longest time, we had a speaker of the house for massachusetts go down to texas and then back up to massachusetts and back again. tip o'neill was the last democrat. it seems recently both of our speakers have been from the state of california. formerly, these fellows seem to have a certain statesmanship that is somewhat lacking. thank you. guest: what i would say to that observation and the speaker is correct, the last two speakers of the house have come from my native state of california. i hail from the san francisco bay area. i know nancy pelosi's district well in san francisco.

the speakership, a lot of the leadership folks including speakers of the house have to be prolific fundraisers. i think that's why you see certainly nancy pelosi was perhaps the democratic party's greatest fundraiser. she raised not only from her state of california but also traveled the entire united states. hakeem jeffries, the democratic leader currently in the house hails from new york and has ties to wall street and new york city. he is also a prolific fundraiser. for a lot of these positions, people are rewarded with these plum positions in leadership because of their fundraising prowess. they do need to raise tons of money in this modern day of politics in order to help their

parties when elections. i think that is why you see these leaders in both parties hail from the coast. paul ryan was from wisconsin and john boehner was from ohio. a lot of these leaders help from states where they can raise a lot of money. host: just as a reminder, we are taking your calls about these hard right conservatives who have created a stalemate on the house floor. if you are a republican, call us at c-span.org, democrats (202) 748-8000 and independents (202) 748-8002 let's go to the independent line from greenville, south carolina. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am just astonished at the

disinformation the republican party and republicans in general try to spew. first off, the democrats are the ones who reduced the deficit and the republicans are the ones who ran it up. trump contributed a quarter of the deficit. and how did his tax cuts increase revenue to the government? that is just absurd. these particular conservatives are passing bills that have absolutely no consequence. the republicans just pander to their base without facts and lies and its astonishing that republican voters are so uninformed. nike so much. guest: i will just point out that in the middle of the negotiations between president biden and speaker mccarthy on

the debt, the white house had at one point put tax increases on the table. democrats of course of said if you want to get serious about reducing the deficit, tax increases need to be part of that conversation. kevin mccarthy and republicans said that was absolutely redline they would not cross. so that issue was dropped out of the negotiations completely. that has been a longtime position of democrats that if you want to get serious about getting the debt situation under control, you have to put tax increases for the wealthy and corporations on the table. host: i want to bring up some of the comments we are receiving on her facebook page.

he may have gotten legislation but in the process he could have got the support in the house and senate as well. now he must pay the piper. conservatives feel that kevin mccarthy caved too soon in negotiating because the house republicans had a bill. tkpwoeup i'm not sure i understand the question. host: why did kevin mccarthy negotiate with biden instead of insisting the senate take up the house republican bill. tkpwoeup you are talking about the limit, grave, grow act. a lot of people were sur advised that republicans with their very, very fragile narrow

majority were able to come together. that leadership was able to cobble together and get the 218 votes needed to pass their own legislation. if you remember, president biden very early on in this year knowing these debt negotiations would have to happen, that the debt limit would need to be raised. his position was we don't negotiate on the debt ceiling. we should raise it without any sort of g.o.p. provisions or g.o.p. cuts. that tactic shifted and changed because kevin mccarthy and the republicans were able to cast their g.o.p. bill to raise the debt limit that also included significant spending cuts. kevin mccarthy addressed last night with reporters, he said there was always a realization

that what we passed would never be able to pass the democratic-controlled senate. that there -- has to be negotiations. he complained about those negotiations didn't start in january, it was kicked down the road several months. president biden ignored mccarthy for many months. show me your budget. show me what you want to cut. when republicans produced that document and were able to pass that bill, that is when negotiations started in ernest. that's why -- in earnest. that's why we went right up against that deadline to raise the debt limit. host: back to the phone lines. arty in south carolina, independent line, you're on. caller: the money tells you everything you need to know. the republicans that are standing up are actually trying to save the country. i believe that the great reset.

all of these, a lot of these other people, i don't see any way out at this point except the tea party 11 have in mind. they broke. they should have held their ground. because it would not have been their fault. we are going to default one way or the other. follow the money. guest: the argument from republicans especially these 11 is that we are on an unsustainable path. that the debt continues to rise every single year. it is out of control. that government spending is out of control. and that the deal that mccarthy struck with president biden was too modest. it would essentially keep flat the spending caps would keep

flat spending heading into the next fiscal year. and then for fiscal year 2025 it would actually increase spending by 1%. these are not the deep, deep cuts that most house republicans wanted that were even included in the limit, save, grow act that they had passed. instead they are relatively modest cuts. kevin mccarthy is trying to portray this as a major victory for republicans in capping spending. doesn't happen very often. so he is right in that case. most people see these spending caps and the cuts as very, very modest cuts. host: all right. our next caller on the republican line, kim is in cedar city, utah. guest: thank you.

how can the -- how can you, you called me far right. i am conservative. i am patriotic. i do not follow the g.o.p. that's why i voted for trump. the g.o.p. told me to vote for jeff bush. i'm not a gullible sheep and i'm not greedy. what i see right now is -- sorry, and dark brown. have been since birth. i don't need to tell you what my nationality is. i never said that before because i don't look at the color of my skin. my family immigrated here one generation before me and succeeded within one generation. we didn't follow any of our quote, leaders, because our quote, leaders, need to keep us following them like little minions. when i hear other quote, communities, say how they need the help of the government to succeed, they need to stop following their leaders. their leaders climbed up and out of their communities on the backs of their own and need them to stay there.

what really fries me is me -- i calculated it. we are paying almost $8300 per illegal immigrant, per month. what american right now who is looking to the government for help couldn't use $8300 per person, family of four, add it up. that is money that we can't afford. when you talk about the debt and we are paying for illegals, $8300 a month, per illegal, and protecting the borders of other countries, paying into all these other quote global clubs, that use america as their, what, their mommy we don't need to be paying all that money. all of that money is pouring out of our country towards other people. we pay our taxes. that is our money. if all these other communities of color want to help, how about they start storming the doors of

their liberal political leaders, their liberal political leaders are the ones who are doing this. that is who is doing this. we know how to lock our own doors. we know how to keep our cars safe. we know how to protect the ukrainian border. but we won't protect our own. host: i'm going to stoup right there. got your point. let scott respond. guest: there was a lot there from immigration to i think federal assistance. host: ukraine. guest: i would just say that the mccarthy-biden deal did enhance work requirements for some federal assistance programs, including food stamps, tanf is another program. it would raise the age of -- for certain people to have to do work requirements in order to receive some of that federal

assistance. kevin mccarthy and many republicans are touting that as a win. although members of the freedom caucus wanted those work requirements to go much, much further. that's what i would say on that point. host: i want to ask you, one of the points that the last caller just raised was about it seemed like she was equating immigration, particularly undocumented immigration, and the spending on things like the war in ukraine as contributing to the national debt. that's something we hear from conservatives. can you talk about how spending on the war in ukraine, how immigration has factored into these conversations about government spending? tkpwoeup actually, the -- guest: actually the war in ukraine was a big subject of conversation on the hill this week. as you know, we were both up

there. mitch mcconnell has been unhappy with some of the caps on military spending. there is a discussion as part of that biden d.c. mccarthy deal -- biden-mccarthy deal, mcmcconnell, the republican leader in the senate, was asked this week whether he believes a forthcoming biden request for a supplemental spending package to support the war in ukraine, something that pentagon officials and administration officials believe will be needed at some point later this summer, mcconnell said he absolutely supports that. when kevin mccarthy was asked the same question, he said, why do we need a supplemental? we just imposed these spending caps. he is reflecting the sentiment of many members, certainly the

conservatives in the house of representatives. perhaps not the defense hawks in the house of representatives and on capitol hill, but a large segment of his g.o.p. conference. so it is interesting to see this divide between mccarthy and mcconnell. the two leaders in the house and senate on the issue of whether a shrel package will be needed to support -- supplemental package will be needed to support the war. host: and whether a supplemental package will be needed for defense spending to offset some of those cuts in the debt ceiling bill, right? guest: yeah. host: all right. let's take another caller. robert is on the democratic line in franklin, kentucky. caller: hello. host: you are on, robert. caller: i'm calling about the debt ceiling. if steve ban none got -- bannon

got $4 million back he stole. marjorie taylor greene would get the money back from covid. matt gaetz get the money back from covid. kim kardashian, trump around her waist, he gave her money for covid. think of the money we would have. we would have no problem about giving the poor people a few dollars. thank you. guest: i don't have any comments on kim kardashian. host: darell. darell is in matthews, north carolina, independent line. caller: good morning. for your guest i'm concerned with the national debt. i have two questions for your questions. guest. does he have the same concern on the right with the left with the debt? and second i hear much talk

about the hard right. could your guest define what he means by hard right. does he see them in the negative and obstruction to getting things done? thank you. guest: let me lay out -- we have the sort of monikers for various factions in the republican party. certainly for the house republican conference because think about it, it's 222 members. so they have found ways to sort of cluster together, to group together in order to exert influence within that g.o.p. conference. certainly the house freedom caucus, which is much, much more conservative. the most conservative members of the g.o.p. conference have figured out if we band together we can be much, much more powerful than if we are 30 individual voices.

oftentimes they will take a position. they will vote as a block. able to influence what the larger g.o.p. conference is able to do. similarly there are moderates in the conference, and many of those members are part of the bipartisan problem solvers caucus. there is another group called the republican main street group that is more -- they are friendly to main street. they are business friendly. they are much more pragmatic. so you have these various factions within the g.o.p. conference. when we talk about moderate or hard right or super conservative we are just trying to figure out a way to differentiate these groups and explain to the readers where they fall on the spectrum of moderate to conservative. host: all right.

on the line from maryland, deborah, democratic line. caller: hello. thanks for taking my call. i have a bone to pick with your commentator there, he said that biden was taking aback when the republicans produced a budget. they never produced a budget. that was a ransom note not a budget. they still have to come up with a budget. i think people are probably going to be shocked when they do, or they probably won't be able to the way things are going right now. they were not specific about what they were going to cut. they have caps. and i think that they are going to have to come up with line items and be specific about what these cuts mean to the average person. when they do i predict people are not going like it. the reason they needed this ransom note is because they cannot get this stuff through the normal negotiation process

because it's unpopular. they are threatening to cut off public broadcasting. i just would like him to please correct that. they did not produce a budget. they produced demands. that's going to get all of them. nobody ever gets all of them. host: we know that they have produced their version of what they felt should be in the debt ceiling bills. but you're right that it was -- included cuts that would never pass the senate. you said that earlier. we have been talking all morning about how do you govern when you have the need for compromise, because democrats control the senate and the white house, but you've got these -- what do we call them conservative far right, hard right who are saying the minute you start compromising we are ready to shut it down.

and you wrote an article talking about all the things that congress needs to accomplish through the end of the year. can you talk about that? what is the path forward? guest: let me clarify one point that the caller made. i hope i didn't say they passed a budget. what i meant was they passed a bill that did, in fact, raise the debt ceiling. so in the middle of these negotiations there was a p.r. battle happening between the white house and kevin mccarthy. kevin mccarthy's talking point was republicans have passed a bill that raises the debt ceiling. it was successful. and yes, it involves spending cuts. yes, it involves some g.o.p. priorities and provisions. we are the ones who have acted to raise the debt ceiling.

that was an effective talking point, effective political argument against the white house as these negotiations were happening behind closed doors. to your other question, there is not a whole lot that actually needs to happen this year. the must-pass bill is the bill that -- is a spending package that needs to pass the congress at the end of the fiscal year, september 30, in order to prevent or avert another government shut down. this is going to be the next target on capitol hill. the appropriators have now been tasked to pass 12 of their -- all 12 of their appropriation bills. they want to do it clearly by the end of the fiscal year, but that seems very, very ambitious. what appropriators are saying we are going to try to do it by the end of the year because january

1, when january 1 kicks in, a provision of this debt ceiling deal between mccarthy and biden said if all 12 bills, proeplgs bills, are not passed -- appropriation bills are not passed by january 1, there is a provision that will enact automatic spending cuts of 1% across the board for discretionary spending. none of the appropriators want those spending cuts. so there is an incentive for these appropriators to get moving and to work together in a bipartisan way to pass these 12 appropriation bills. not only to avert a shut down but to also avert the potential spending cuts that could come automatically by january 1. host: one more caller. we'll go to akron, ohio, james on the independent line. caller: yes. i have one question that i want

to ask. explanation first. i'm 75. and i have been paying attention to the budget for quite some time, but the last 20 years i have been really watching it since the clinton so-called balanced budget. what i'm seeing, i hear the democrats saying in order to get a balanced budget and pay for things we have to increase taxes. and then i hear the republicans say, well, we need to give tax breaks to the wealthy because they will invest more and we will generate more revenue. i have been watching -- every investment from major corporations in the last 20 years have went along with a tax break and investment from the government so that virtually they have been getting it free and paying no taxes for it. i'm trying to find out how is it

happening that we are supposed to be giving a tax break to the wealthy and creating revenue, and i can't see that in light at all. this has been a talking point for several years. i have been watching for 20-plus years and i haven't saw t i wish you could explain to me how that's possible. thank you. guest: i think the caller very clearly laid out the sort of two visions for america in terms of financial aspects for this country. so these things are litigated every two years because we have elections. yes, democrats have called for additional tax increases for the wealthy. people make making over a -- making over a certain amount,

$400,000 a year, or corporations. republicans see the path to fiscal responsibility through cutting spending and through boosting the economy. they see tax increases as a nonstarter. so we are going to hear a lot more about these two visions for the country. these are pretty traditional visions for the country that we hear every election cycle. and now that we are heading into this brand new presidential election cycle, i think we'll hear a lot more of it. host: we'll leave it there. ♪ announcer: spend "washington journal" to discuss police issues in government, politics and public policy from washington and across