it is $29.95 plus shipping and handling. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. ♪ >> c-span your unfiltered view of government. they are funded by these television companies and more. ♪ >> buckeye broadband supports c-span as a public service. give you a front row seat to democracy. host: later on this year college graduates borrowed money to pay

for their education will have to start to pay back the debt that was pause during the pandemic. one in five student borrowers have risk factors which means they will struggle when those loans become due. if you have student debt we want to hear from you if you're ready to restart those payments what you plan to do financially when they resume later this year. (202) 748-8000 for students, (202) 748-8001 for parents, you can also text us your thoughts (202) 748-8003 any composed on facebook, twitter and follow on instagram.

about 42 million people have federal student loan debts. that equals 1.7 6 trillion an outstanding student debt. the average borrower, 37,000 and education debt. student loan debt accounts for 10% of national consumer debt, the second largest debt behind mortgages and they estimate that paying off student loans could take anywhere from 10-30 years. that is some of those estimates. what happened in congress, there was an effort by republicans to help with the process or help those who borrow money for college and their education. the hill writes a series about five bills packaged as a

lowering education caused that will give students information before they attend and change student loan options. focusing on data before students begin school so applicants can better compare options in the college reporting programs and it highlights the three other bills that would simplify repayment options, setting requirements on how long the loan would take to pay back and reforming loans for graduate students. that is some of the action that happened on the hill. student loan payments restarting this year, what will your experience when they start. if you are a graduate (202)

748-8000, or a parent (202) 748-8001. the senate talking about that is senator bill cassidy of louisiana and here's what he had to say about what they were hoping to do with that legislation. [video clip] >> you can't buy a car without comparing prices and financing options the same goes with the house why don't we do this for higher education? it's called the college transparency act. whatever that student likes, a white male 65 years old, a black male 18 or black female 22 they look in that mirror and logon if i entered this curriculum at this college this is my chance of graduating in this curriculum at this college. this is how much i will need to potentially borrow and this is

my earning potential when i graduate. if someone attempts to enroll in a program if they only have a 5% chance of graduating and when they graduate they will make $30,000, that would be a clear market signal, don't enroll in that program. i say that because at some universities they do really well at addressing racial disparity rates african-american males have the lowest graduation rate. instead of graduating with dead, the young man would be able to graduate and pay back the debt he has. host: that was senator cassidy talking about the republican effort to change the way student loans are repaid in light of the bidens administration reenacting the student loan program in

september for interest payments. the actual payment and october. this was done as part of the debt ceiling negotiations when those student loan start getting repaid. we want to hear about your experiences and what you might expect when you have to make those payments. we broke it down with the lines by graduates (202) 748-8000 and parents (202) 748-8001 you can give us your thought by text (202) 748-8003 if you wish to do that and you can post on facebook and instagram as well. some of you texting about this idea, this is russ in california saying what's next when it comes to efforts to repay loans? this has to stop. pay your bills. this is from tony in florida saying those who owe debt will have to struggle like many

taxpayers will have to pay their debt. he is referring to the biden administration unveiling an effort to forgive student loan debt. this is still being decided by the supreme court said to make a decision any day now. let's hear from a debate that took place earlier on the senate floor. this is from alex padilla he talked about the administrations effort to forgive debt when it comes to students of color. here's a portion of that from june. [video clip] >> the dreams of too many are determined by their parents paycheck and in 2023 that means working and middle-class families with a disproportionate

burden on communities of color have to risk dangerous levels of debt just for a chance at achieving their american dream. i remember what it felt like filling out loan forms of facing the brutal reality that when i was looking to go to m.i.t. the cost of tuition was bigger than my dads mortgage payment. i was able to make it through with pell grants, scholarships, work-study and student loans which took years to pay off. i know the real weight of student debt. i also know what it does like to start thinking ahead to prepare my own son for college education. as it turns out

president biden's plan is not just good for everybody, it's helping address the racial wealth gap in america. his plan would mean half of latino borrowers would see their entire debt forgiven. that's just not liberating it's an investment for all of us. the increased relief for pell grants would offset communities of color and cut into the racial wealth gap. almost 71% of black undergraduate borrowers and 65% of latino students received this grant. the president's entitlement meant that an entire generation of students could begin their

career without the weight of student debt holding them back. host: our first call on the idea if you're ready to restart those payments. this is greg in glen rock. caller: good morning. host: as far as the starting of repayments, how are you such to handle that? caller: not very well. my daughter graduated from college. she did four years and then she is going to get her masters and she is totally against the student loan program as well. she feels like she took the loan on. she feels like she should be responsible to pay it. i feel exactly the same as she does. i could pay her loan off but i

don't see any sense in it. like i said, it's a responsibility thing. you signed for a house, you pay for it. you buy a car, you pay for it. most of these kids are going to college to get arts degrees or degrees that aren't worth anything and then they get out and we are stuck with the bill? like obama or biden said, we are a deadbeat nation. we aren't going to be paying our debts back. host: if i may ask and you don't have to respond. how much did she take out for loans and wanted to get a degree in? caller: she took a minimum amount but we paid most of it and she does very well living down in virginia. host: wedded to it you get a degree in? caller: she went for women's

ministries. that's the field she likes. no regrets. she is doing very well. she is an awesome kid. she believes and responsibilities. host: greg with his experience as a parent starting repayments later on this year and september. the interest begins on october. let's hear from ed in houston, texas. caller: i was a student that never borrowed money. my parents were able to support me and i also worked during the summers. i was able to avoid getting loans. i would be in favor of restarting those loans that are best able to pay it back. i would not want to have people

suffering economically if they cannot pay this back. i think it is important that people be given a break. host: consumer financial protection bureau put out a report on what to expect once these repayments restart. you can find their report of consumer finance.gov. more than one and 13 student borrowers are currently behind on their other payment obligations. the delinquencies are higher than the pandemic about one in five student loan borrowers suggest they could struggle with no scheduled payments resume. it also says that medium scheduled payments have been increased by 24% for student borrowers returning to repayments. these fees are larger for

younger people. more than four in 10 will start repayment with the new servicer. that's according to the consumer protection bureau. let's hear from a graduate arkansas. this is kevin. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just want to spell a couple of missions. people don't go to college and major in arts degrees for the most part. a major in stem, if you look at the empirical evidence. most people don't study things like gender studies or history or philosophy or art because those are hard degrees to get. you will spend a lot of time reading and average in the average student doesn't want to do that.

the second thing i wanted to spell is this debt forgiveness program is only for giving a portion of people stead. it is not wiping the deck clean. the third thing is this biden plan to eliminate 10,000-20,000 of student debt was designed for those who went to college and did not graduate and did not get a degree. i am paying my debts back and i am going to do it whether the federal government forgive some are not. is signed a big issue for me but i just want to clarify a couple of things about higher education, dead and students repaying those things and what they study. host: before you leave, what did you study? caller: i studied philosophy and history and a doctorate in history. host: how much did you pay out and what are you looking at with student loans? caller: undergrad 17,000 and for

graduate school it was 60,000. for graduate school i got a lot of fellowships and scholarships that funded it. institutional funding and from the national academy that funded part of my doctoral studies. host: what would you advise a student about taking out loans? caller: read the paperwork carefully and take the counseling that you get when you're leaving university. listen to their advice and take out more loans then you can handle every semester. they are going to offer you more money than you actually need each semester. look into some scholarship opportunities. a lot of scholarships are not tapped into by students because they don't know about them. there are all kinds of websites that will tell you where to get

scholarship opportunities if you want a college degree. host: kevin a graduate they're talking about his experience. talking about what he is expecting as far as repayment. if you're a college graduate and you want to give your experience (202) 748-8000 is the line for that and parents (202) 748-8001 you mentioned the biden's administration announcement last year to forgive some of that that and it was taken to the supreme court on whether it happens or not. 20,000 for pell grants and 10,000 for non-pell grants. it would apply to those making 100,000 or less a year. the supreme court gets to make a decision on that. joan and sheppard, texas. caller: i will like to know why

college cost so much? i went to college in the 50's and i could earn in one week what it took for me in the semester. my daughter went to college in the 70's and they could pay for it working on the weekends. my granddaughters that go to college in the 90's, it took them an entire year to go to college. why does college cost so much now and if you look it up i think you will find us because of the government. host: what is you study in college? caller: in the 50's i got a degree in mathematics. in the 70's i got a masters degree in mathematics. host: did you become a teacher

or work in a technical field with their background? caller: i ended up as a high school math teacher in a college math teacher. host: joe there talking about experiencing college but comparing to his grandchildren he was asking about those college fees and costs. u.s. news and world report looked at the average tuition for 2022-2023. they estimate that when it comes to private colleges for one year the tuition fee comes to 39,000 723, a public state college is 23,000 and an in-state college $10,400.

this is frank from kentucky, hi there. caller: i agree with the previous caller about the high cost of tuition. it is mostly due to to administrators getting overpaid and faculty getting underpaid. a lot of young people don't want to go right into work after high school. they want to play sports, ncaa. they want to stay with sports and that's another motive to go to college. it's not just about in education anymore. i'm a college professor in west virginia. i have to wait seven months for my overtime pay after teaching 48 hours a year. i teach at the penitentiary. the inmates get free college tuition. i have serial killers free college tuition and we're

talking about a 20% discount with kids that have no background. the whole system is upside down and it's not fair. host: before you go, did you take out loans when he went to college? caller: i am a naval college graduate. i got free undergrad for five years. then i use the g.i. bill to get my mba and phd in higher education leadership. i have 35 years of experience and i can tell you it is upside down. host: annmarie and illinois, another graduate. caller: the issue i am having as i went back to school. i dropped out in the late 70's and i went back in the 90's.

what i found out and i got a bachelors in business and in associates and paralegal. when they say there is an equal opportunity that's not exactly true. being an african-american, considering the time span as descendants of slaves being held back from education. it was illegal for us to even learn to read. and now here i am stuck with the student loan payment and i am a groundskeeper. the fact that i did not pursue

my career in business, i kept running into a brick wall when it came to getting hired. i was not able to do where you work for a company for free. host: an apprenticeship? caller: i couldn't do that because i had a family. here i am i am paying 51,000 for my education that i am not even using. and i did find out that there is a glass ceiling. it is who you know to get hired instead of what you know and i don't think that's fair.

african-americans have to pay huge student loans when we start behind when we start the race. i think americans should be given a free education because we are owed thought. we are so far behind. it seems prohibitive. host: what is your average monthly payment for student loans? caller: $364. host: what will that mean for you? caller: i do the income-based repayment and base of a cup they will adjust the monthly payments based on my income. host: that is anne-marie giving his experience. this is kevin in michigan. caller: hello, good morning.

i was shocked when you flash the stat of the cost of college. public school is 10 grand. the u.s. thing is exaggeratedly off. i am ex military and i have the g.i. bill and worked my way through my bs degree and paid it off. i disagree with previous collars about the price of tuition. the guarantee loans by government, why would not the business raise the cost? stop the guarantee program. host: you managed to get out without student loans? is that the same for your son? caller: excuse me? host: you managed to pay her

loan inspected your son managed to take out loans? caller: my son is blessed, we are paying for his college. because i have done all the right things and i saved early, started saving when he was four years old. my wife and i did not drive expensive car or live in expensive houses or travel like other families. we prepared for their future. we are blessed in that fashion. the other question that needs to be raised. if you go to a university for an engineering degree versus social work, an engineer will make six figures and those with the social degree will get

something in the 30's and 40's. they can't make enough to repay that loan even though they cost the same. host: those loan repayments are set to start by the end of this year. from the perspective of a graduate (202) 748-8000, from that of a parent (202) 748-8001 and you can text us from (202) 748-8003. duane is apparent from nebraska. -- a parent from nebraska. caller: i sent my daughter to college and i'm trying to help her pay her loans off. i need to pay everyone else's loans off and hers off. host: how much did she take out

and loans? caller: i have no idea. host: what do you expect to pay back if you have no idea? caller: i just listen to what she has to say. she went to a four-year college in nebraska. she did get some loans or whatever but she has all these other ones to pay back and is not in the degree that she went into. so now i'm trying to help her out. host: what did she study in college? caller: ministry. host: in the job she has currently does not in that? caller: that's what i'm saying. host: that is duane apparent

from nebraska. when it comes to the repayment schedule, is highlighted and a story from the local news in louisiana saying that student loan borrowers away the decision from the supreme court. interest on student loans will accumulate in september and the payments will be due starting a month after before bringing an end to a three-year moratorium on student loan debt payments originally implemented by tromp. they were set to resume earlier this year. the court is expected to rule of student loan borrowers can have 20,000 of their debt given by the government. that amount increases to 20,000

to those who received pell grant's. when it comes to the repayment of those loans. give your experience on the line. on facebook, my student loans are paid off. higher education is way too expensive. america should be investing more and it like we did in the past. this is a viewer on twitter, when i started grad school i heard the first year would be the most expensive. it never went down. the politicians are clouding the issue which should be how much the american government has subsidized higher education. we have sue next, she is apparent. caller: i'm waiting for the court's decision for my kids

student loans. once they decide we will figure out how to proceed from there. with earlier collars, it's incredible what it cost to go to school. we saved for both of our kids. we started when they were babies. they were able to cover most of their tuition but when it came to living expenses, these were in-state schools. we strongly encouraged the kids to make different decisions before they took out a loan. they are in a position to not have a lot of loans. i worked my way through graduate school and had no debt. they both have good jobs now. they are working in the fields they enjoy. neither one of them is staying

in nebraska. the cost of tuition, it's alarming. i got my masters degree in 2005. by the time my kids were going to school i was in graduate school tuition costs more than my graduate school credits. it's incredible how much the cost to change. host: when the loan repayments restart what is that mean for you or them if they are repaying them? caller: i will resume paying them. they will resume paying theirs. i will probably help them because i would like them to be launched in life and not bound with a lot of debt which again, they don't have a lot but it prevents you from getting ahead. host: when you start repaying

them, how to set affect the rest of your budget? -- how does that affect the rest of your budget? caller: i am close to retirement age. it made me put off my retirement. host: sue from nebraska, talking about her experiences compared to those of her children and education. you can add years by texting (202) 748-8000 for graduates, (202) 748-8001 if you are a parent and want to talk about your experiences. danielle is a graduate in new hampshire. caller: i graduated from college about 10 years ago. my parents help me pay for it. they save my entire life for it. i got good grades in schools, scholarships pay for about half

and i still ended up with 30,000 of student loans. again, my parents help me pay it off. i was unable to go into the field i study because of health problems so now i'm not using my degree. i still had all of the time i spent paying those student loans that i could have been saving them money for something else and what it comes down to is, federal funding for colleges has decreased substantially which is causing these colleges to increase tuition and the cost falls on the students themselves . decades ago, all of these colors calling and saying they were able to work her way through school. the wages match the cost of living.

students are not able to pay for the increase cost of college. the federal and state funding has gone away as well so all of these costs are falling on the student themselves and my husband also graduated from college with an associates degree. i went to a private school and human to a state school. it doesn't come down to the decision it comes down to the cost of college in general. host: you said that while you paid off your student loans you could have saved for other things, such as what? caller: i would've liked to

drive a car that didn't break down all the time. i would like to have paid for a house, we are still renting. we have chosen to pay our loans rather than save up for other things. it's affected our whole life trajectory and like i said, we both graduated 10 years ago and is still affecting us. we have been making payments the whole time and he still has 10000 and loans. i'm lucky enough that my parents help me to pay my not. but they should not be responsible for their students college. you should be able to make that decision on your own and not have to worry about if your parents can help you pay for it. host: thank you for your perspective and experience. let's hear from the experience of a parent. this is john from new jersey. caller: good morning. i live in new jersey as you said.

$.60 of every dollar pays for my children k-12. i paid for their college and i only had two children because the could afford to children. it was my responsibility to pay for it and i did. if the government wants me to start paying for other people's colleges, i would rather set them on fire. host: that is john in new jersey. in a trip to north carolina one of the things you brought up during his remarks was about the importance of community college. here are the remarks from the president on that trip. [video clip] >> jill has caught in community college for a number of years. she had an expression, community

colleges are the best kept secret in america. she goes on to say, any country that out educates us will outcompete us. we are in an incredible competition worldwide. this best kept secret is not being kept secret much anymore. community college in north carolina since 2021, private investors have invested $16 billion in community college. that doesn't count the billions of dollars from the federal government. the point is, these investments were made in good paying jobs all across north carolina. host: that was president biden from that recent trip talking

about community college. the president traveling to philadelphia today. he will address all rally for labor ion workers. you can see that as part of our campaign 2024 coverage at 2:15 from philadelphia. you can also watch it on c-span.org. mike from bethesda, maryland talking about what happens when the student loan start up again. caller: if we enforce the student loan thing, it will be a huge drag on the american economy. why student students climb on the gravy train that the rest of us have?

they are still paying carry interest rates much lower than income tax rates. farmers get financial breaks. homeowners get tax breaks for owning a home. commercial real estate investors get huge breaks thanks of the federal government. tax breaks -- we don't want to generation encumbered with that. how come other first world countries don't have this problem? what's so unique about our system that it favors rich guys? if you're over the age of 50, what your parents paid for

tuition is tiny compared to their income versus was paid today. for kids with an urban areas, the rents are out of sight. it is disproportionately more expensive than what their wages will provide. host: this is barbara in kansas, a single mother, i got my student loan payment down to a thousand but it's rough to make that payment. i removed money coming in. it still makes it hard. our facebook page says why would anyone be ready? they would not be ignorant enough to expect other people to pay their bills.

facebook is available if you want to pay their and you can tweet us at http://twitter.com/cspanwj. from florida, this is connie. caller: i want to echo the sentiment that danielle expressed as well as what might just express. these stupid callers who say things i paid for my kids to go to school or i was able to afford mine back in the 50's and 60's. they don't look at the economy as a whole. as to your question about what will happen in october when payments resume. they need to restore my constitutional right to bankruptcy. it is in the constitution that debtors have a right to file bankruptcy. nobody seems to remember that on the republican side of the slate

and that includes joe biden because that was back in the late 90's and biden was on the side of the bankers that stole those bankruptcy rights from american citizens. i graduated years ago, a single mother of a single mother of a single mother. my grandmother's husband died, my mother grew up in a one parent family and could not afford to pay for college. i grew up in a one parent family . i was a single parent when i accumulated the student debt. there should have been some kind of program for me to say, you come from a working-class, poor background and there should be help for you. you should not have to incur that. this is what these stupid republicans realize. we are not all born rich with

parents who could afford to pay college tuition. host: as the repayments go, what are you looking at month-to-month? caller: over $500 a month. when i got out of college i was making $32,000. i work in an industry, i did not know it didn't pay well because my university did not inform me of that and i'm a single mother making 32,000 a year and expected to pay $500 a month in student loan payments. host: next on our line from virginia. caller: i want to echo the lady who just called. i was a military wife and as a military wife, i cannot afford

to do the free money so i have student loan debt. even though i graduated years ago and finally making decent money. i could possibly afford to pay my $800 a month. you cannot speak to anyone there about how much money you owe. i ended up going from 140,000 to 300,000. i owe more and student loan debt that all my house. i am 57 years old and if i died three times and came back i'd still have student loan debt. i agree with bankruptcy and there ought to be another way. we should have been informed on how this will accumulate. when i went to buy my house they told me i had to pay all of my student loan debt and it had to be consolidated in order to get

approved for a house. they gave me an interest rate of 8.45% in 2000. the only thing i am asking for is someone to negotiate the debt to stop the interest rates from increasing to give me an opportunity to make the payment on that loan. host: robbie in alabama. a parent, go ahead please. caller: i want to say two things very quickly. i am a retired educator and my daughter is a math teacher middle school in georgia. she works very hard. she has two smart girls. she has a very high student debt

because i was unemployed for a long time when she was in college. i have a political question. we are sending billions of dollars to ukraine but can't have a free education? i know you won't get into a political discussion but i am just saying. she has worked very hard, i have worked very hard and we are repaying student debt and this person at the head of ukraine, russia is the strongest nuclear power in the world is destroying his country and they have free education already. why are we sending billions of

dollars over there? host: let me ask you this. when those debt repayments start how will your daughter be set? caller: it is going to be difficult because their diets are very high. for a long while, i was unemployed while she was in college. i really respect her because she is hard-working and loving. why are we sending these billions of dollars of ukraine for them to have free education, free medicine, free burials and we are suffering over here in america? host: let's go to lisa in illinois, a graduate. caller: i am calling about student loans. my loans are pre-2010.

i have been paying this entire time. bankruptcy rights need to be restored. it's ridiculous that people can get ppe loans and not able to file bankruptcy or negotiate debts down. i've private school debts. i went to law school thinking it was an investment in my future and realized it was not very lucrative for the mass majority of people. there is a group called student loan justice that really dispels , there are a lot of borrowers over 35. we are not a bunch of young people. i'm tired of being called lazy deadbeats. we have been paying for many years, we keep throwing money at these things in the balance

doesn't come down. host: a previous calendar set her balance increased over time and she could not understand why. do you have a clear picture of how these loans work when they're presented to you? caller: not entirely. you are barely an adult when you get them. i was in graduate school. i thought i was going to get paid a lot of money because they misrepresented themselves. and then you realize that is probably not going to happen and you get married, have kids and you realize, this is way too much. if the loans had no interest in your balance was going down like normal loans, that would also help. it just keeps compounding and compounding with inflation and other expenses in raising your

family. this loan will continue with you until death. it's sad that these people have debt in their 50's and 60's when they're getting social security. host: we heard a couple of different perspectives when it came to the biden administration to try to forgive some of that student loan debt depending on what the supreme court decides. it was one of the issues that mitch mcconnell brought to the floor of the senate talking about the administration's plan of what the supreme court might have to do with it. [video clip] >> almost a third of all student debt is held by the top 20% of households. only 8% is held by the bottom 20% of households.

more than 70% of president biden so-called loan forgiveness will go to the top 60% of earners. this doesn't surprise me considering the median income of college graduates is 55% higher than those with high school diplomas and in some cases, americans who choose to go to college already have an extra leg up. students at elite colleges have parents among the top 1% of earners than the bottom 50%. the facts are so clear that even a former top obama administrator that student loan forgiveness is regressive. student loan forgiveness is regressive.

it's pretty simple, if americans choose to take on student loan debt and unlock higher earning potential, millions of other americans choose not to take on debt and make sacrifices. the biden administration wants to take the basic choice away and impose student loan socialism instead. they want working americans to take on 430 billion in debt just to pad the pockets of washington democrats base. caller: good morning. after listening to mcconnell i am stand at what he said

especially in regards to the top 60% taking out student debt. that is the middle class. if you take out the top 2%, the middle classes having to borrow for college. i am a parent who had to borrow for three children and i will tell you, those loans are crazy. we have had them since the beginning of 2003 when our oldest went to college. we still have them larger than ever. we borrowed around 50,000 and we paid back 92,000 and they are now at hundred 38,000. these were the ones that didn't qualify for anything. one of our loans is a consolidation loan for which the act was passed on october 10 of

2022 that has still not been enacted. there is no mechanism to separate that. i bring that up because i have been working in an 501(c)(3) which qualifies me for a public service loan forgiveness. i have not realize that forgiveness at all. i am not able to implement that at all. i am now 65, my husband is going on 70. we've had these longs for a long time. without bankruptcy protection, there is no way for us at all. why don't we have the same production -- protection everyone else has stucco i want

to ask the republicans why they don't see that alone as one important issue. finally, why do our loans get bigger rather than smaller after paying them for years. one of them is capitalizing interest? shouldn't you make it easier to pay them back? we borrowed not because we are rich, we are middle class we have to. a lot of us borrow because our children worked hard in school and they are good students and they are really smart but we cannot afford to send them so we had to borrow. ms. mcconnell said it's a choice to borrow. it's not a choice to borrow when you don't have enough money to cover tuition. host: thank you so much for telling your experience. let's go to carry, out of north

carolina, a graduate. caller: i want to say two things. several callers said they could save. that was something that was on the table, if someone gets down the pipe. you're paying off your student loans, you break your back or other things, that will pull you all the way down. bankruptcy was the end-all, be-all. nobody wants to file bankruptcy but if you get into that right, that was our thing. when i entered, hopefully it will never have to happen. ultimately, as a single parent, i did break my back and i love

nothing more graduating. not getting help from a state college in new york and when i entered the work forests, and what happens? you have too much debt we will not hire you until you pay off x, y, z debt. that was a beauty. nobody has wanted to talk about that across the board. when i am looking at things like mcconnell are some of the other ones who have spoken and said they are not doing everything they can. there are some of us coming out of the 90's, we all got screwed. because of all the policies after the fact. host: one more call, ewing, a

parent. go ahead. caller: it is what it is. i put three girls through college and two of them were kentucky state and another a graduate of harvard. she went to school there when obama was going to law school. i paid tax to uncle sam for 20 years and when i retired i have been paying it ever since. i still pay it. why is that? host: let's squeeze in one more call. this is lily from taxes on the parent line. caller: you had mitch mcconnell on there. thankfully he said something i agree with. student loan forgiveness is

regressive because society has become so entitled. give me mine, give me this and that. i paid my student loans off years ago. again, i have done basically the same for my kids. we knew which one was a better investment to go to school. i quickly stopped paying for his school but my daughter, absolutely. she graduated with no student loans. i think it can be done as well. host: we believe it there in texas. we want to thank you for those who participated duringhis hour. two guests joining us throughout the morning first of all we will hear from elizabeth lower-basch from center for law and social policy who will discuss the rise of food insecurity. and speaker mccarthy, we will

talking to catholic universities matthew green about how the relationship between the speaker and republicans could hurt his agenda. we want to let you know, we will talk the pentagon papers, she passed ay. he talked about what pentagon papers public here is a portion. [video clip] >> eventually all charges were dropped when it came out in the classroom that president nixon had conduct did some then criminal activities against me by sending cia assets into my psychoanalyst's office to gather information in order to blackmail me into silence.

the papers ended decision-making. that ended in 1968. he feared that i had information on measures he was taking to try and win the war, which included nuclear threats secret from the american public, but well-known to the targets of vietnam. he was afraid i would expose those threats, which he had not yet carried out, so he tried to stop me. eventually he brought 12 cia assets to washington to a sold me on the steps of the capitol. the words were "to incapacitate ellsberg totally."

what does that mean? to kill me? these guys never used the word kill who talked about terminating with extreme prejudice. when these facts came out in court, my charges were dropped and nixon was faced with prosecution and impeachment first. >> in all that experience, in all your years on this topic, is it easier or harder to be a whistleblower in the federal government today? >> it is more subject to prosecution today. i was the first, and that was a reason, not that i was the first person to leak information. that happens every day, most of it favorable to the administration. eventually -- nobody had been

prosecuted because having had a revolution and a first amendment, we don't have an official secrets act of the kind that braden does.the experiment in my case was to use the espionage act, which was intended against spies, and had been used against spies frequently and still is, to use against someone who gave information to the american public. after my charges were dropped, only two other people were tried under that before president obama. president obama has indicted 3 times as many people for leaking as all previous presidents put together. >> washington journal continues. host: a discussion of food insecurity with laura.

thanks for joining us on the program. a little more about this centimeter that you work with -- this center that you work with. guest: we do advocacy and national assistance to create programs that serve those with low income. host: when it comes to the world of food assistance, described to people what these programs are and who they serve. guest: snap stands for supplemental nutrition assistance program. people sometimes call it ebt or food stamps. it reaches 40,000 people in the u.s.. it serves seniors, people with disabilities, and people who are working but are not making enough to stretch their budget

to buy -- buy healthy food for their families. host: what is the perception and what is the reality about these families? guest: we have an economy full of jobs that do not pay a lot of money, so even when people are working or between jobs, and certainly there are people who are -- we can make society healthy. host: when it comes to those who receive these benefits, what are the requirements generally? guest: the main requirements our income requirements. you need to have a net income under the poverty level. that is $30,000 for a family of 4.

that is not a lot of money. families with low income that is the main requirement. depending on the state and your particular situation, that may -- host: before we go to the specifics about snap, how do you feel about adding work requirements. guest: they were using their political leverage to hang things on the back ceiling. this is not what drives deficits in this country. host: as far as the requirements that got added because of the debt ceiling, what does it do for those who receive benefits through snap? guest: without getting into the technicality, there is a time limit already for those who do not have kids and are not

working. they can only get snap for three months in a 36 month period. the provision in the debt ceiling bill extends that ceiling. for those not working it is typically because they are caring for someone or they have a disability or work limitation. when you have a certain amount of gray in your hair, when you get out of work, it can be harder to find a job again. host: what do you think about the president agreeing to the debt package overall? guest: we don't think it should be part of the package. they negotiated hard and got some positive provisions, including exempting certain people from these time limits, including veterans, people who are experiencing homelessness, and to those who have aged out

of foster care. what is frustrating as many of those people already have disabilities, and should have been exempted under the existing law, but when you have exemptions people often don't know that there is an exemption, or they don't have the paperwork that they need to check the boxes, and people can still lose benefits. host: our guest is with us to talk about those changes. if you would like to ask her questions for the eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8001 -- eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001.

we will get his perspective on it, and then i want you to listen to it. [video clip] >> there has never been a time in a america where there are more jobs. why is that? because the federal government is paying millions of people right now not to work? in america where everyone is working for workers, the federal government is borrowing money from china to pay people not to work! this is insanity. for all of the people out there who are working, they are paying that right. four -- paying that freight. there is a social safety net for people running on hard times, but if you choose to sit at home and turned down jobs, that is your prerogative as an american. do not ask someone working two

jobs to help you stay-at-home. you strengthen social security and medicare, to programs going bust under president biden's runaway spending that we shore up in this bill. he makes the case host: -- host: he makes the case that jobs are out there, but people don't want to work for them. guest: it is a longtime stereotype that those receiving benefits don't want to work. that is untrue. often people want to work, if they are able. often people have reasons that prevent them from working. it saves the government a lot of money. if you are taking care of your parent, then they may be do not

require health care. a a lot of people are working. restaurant jobs do not guarantee a fixed number of hours each week. when business is busy, you might have a lot of hours. then it gets to a slow season, your hours get cut, and you are below 20 hours a week. host: how many more people will fall under this new requirement? guest: for the specific provision in the debt ceiling, it is not a huge number, that we know it is part of a broader conversation. members have said that they want to come back in the farm bill and extend it to even more people. host: what are the reporting requirements for those under this program? how do they let someone know

they are looking for a job? guest: this is a paperwork requirement. if you are participating in it you have to record every month how many hours you worked. if you have an office job where you work 40 hours a week, that is easy, but if you work as a new bird driver, that is a lot of 0 -- as an uber driver, that is a lot of paperwork. host: our first call is from charlie. charlie joins us from massachusetts. caller: hi, pedro. how's it going today? host: it is going swell. caller: these people, i would like to know if there is any requirements on the food items people can buy on the snap

program, or can they buy whatever they want, if they want to buy all sugary drinks, potato chips, cocoa puffs, and popcorn? guest: snap benefits can only be used for food, so you cannot use them to buy alcohol or diapers for your kid. there are not restrictions on what items people can buy. snap recipients by what other americans by. it is the same thing that people buy, except because they try to stretch the dollars further, it tends to be the things that are less expensive and more generic products and less brand names. host: more junk food. guest: no! it is a mixed thing.

all americans have a lot of sugar in their diets, and snap recipients are unique in that. it is similar to what everyone else buys. fruits and vegetables are expensive. one of the provisions in the house bill would cut the funds available for fruits and vegetables for moms and kids receiving wic. it is specifically benefits for pregnant women and infants and toddler's. the budget is $800 million less than what the president approved. host: james is next, james from new york. good morning. caller: the previous colors stole my thunder a little bit. i am retired -- previous caller

stole my thunder a little bit. i am retired from the grocery business. i don't think snap recipients should be able to buy soda and that business. guest: we hear people say "they shouldn't be able to buy junk food." i also hear people say "they shouldn't be able to buy luxury goods." host: when snap benefits ended during the pandemic it impacted those on the program. guest: it depends on the details of what you were getting. the average drop was $95 a

month, but for some people, particularly for seniors and those with disability living on their own, during the pandemic if they lived on their around, they were able to get almost $800 a month in snap benefits, and people talked about how that allowed them to buy healthier food and make good choices for their families, and now many of them are down to the minimum benefit, which is just $23 a month. there is more demand at the food pantries. dollar general and kroger are saying that they are seeing it in their sales. host: john is a snap recipient joining us from long island, new york. caller: good morning. i m receiving snap.

-- i am receiving snap. my wife and i received $270 a month. when i go to the supermarket, i try and squeeze everything in, but in the supermarket, i see them erasing the date on the cans and things because they want to resell it, they don't want to throw it out. that should be illegal. it is very hard. prices are going up and up. a small piece of meat -- $20! people are driving me crazy here. i i'm doing the best i can for me and my wife, but it is not sufficient. all i do is eat eggs and the little piece of meat i can afford, but the prices are superhigh. i think they raised them to get

rid of all the poor people on the island. they do not want poor people on the island, or people with low incomes. host: that is john there in new york. guest: i really appreciate the caller sharing his story. we are in a time of inflation and food costs are rising. everybody feels that, but people with low incomes, people on snap particularly feel that. snap benefits only adjust once a month in october. right now this not benefit is based on what food cost a year ago. every year the funds go a little less further. there are not places to adjust in order to respond to inflation. someone who is more middle-class might substitute a generic brand

instead of vei brand -- of a brand name, but if you're already buying the generic brand, there is not as much room for adjustment. host: john in kentucky for elizabeth lauer bash. caller: the stores are still raising their prices. a tomato costs $1 a pound at kroger. republicans should raise the minimum wage.

anyway, it is a lot worse than that. it's not that people do not want to work. some people work for $3 or $4 an hour. guest: i think the caller is right. a lot of the reason that we have snap is because we have an economy with jobs that do not pay a lot, that do not earn enough to cover everyone's expenses. host: we have a viewer off of twitter who makes the point that neighborhoods with one small grocery store that has no retail competition can charge higher prices. can you weigh in on that? guest: middle-class families,

you can sit there and look at all the different flyers and pick you has the best prices. if you have a car you can go to a bunch of different stores. if you do not have a car, then you have to go to the grocery you can reach. you cannot necessarily stock up when things are on sale. you need to buy what you can carry back to your apartment. all of these costs arise. host: our next caller is in lakeland, florida. caller: i'm calling because i am a social security recipient. it is at the lower end. you cannot get too much, but i am calling to find out why this government won't give social security numbers to immigrants

who are in the country to pay social security taxes and get the amount of social security up so people can afford food again. there is no reason why people working in the country should not be contributing to social security and helping everybody else too. guest: actually, many immigrants are paying into social security, even though they will never get the benefits from it. people often use made-up numbers, but the taxes are withdrawn, even though they will not collect social security. social security recipients often get the minimum snap benefit because of the way the calculation works out. one thing to note is particularly if you are a senior that has large health care expenses, it may be worth telling your snap caseworker about it. host: elaborate on it a little

more, those who will not be affected by the new changes. guest: the debt ceiling really did target a specific population. people who do not have kids, ages 50 to 64. that is the minority of recipients, but we still care about everyone who receives it. they are eligible for exemptions and that is an important distinction, because people need to know about the exemption and they need to prove that they are exempt. for veterans there is a lot of skepticism about whether states will be able to automatically look up if someone is a veteran. imagine if you are homeless you may not have all of the documentation from your record. host: how do states help make up

the difference? are there things they can do to their state programs to compensate? guest: states are very diverse and how they deal with snap benefits. massachusetts has been using their own funds to step people down more slowly, so it is more of a gradual fadeout rather than the cliff that a lot of people experienced. states can do whatever with their own money, but that is expensive. some states have been increasing the minimum benefit. seniors instead of getting $23 a month may get $50 a month with the state topping it off. the state can make it easier or harder to get benefits. in alaska we have been hearing terrible stories of 4 or 6

months to get their application process. that is against the law. the law says you have to get an application to you within 30 days. i would just encourage people to learn what their states are doing and put pressure on states to do a good job running this program. host: virginia is where steve is. caller: hello. i have a question about why when i go to the checkout line and someone in front of me who is a snap beneficiary, they can purchase stakes and things of -- purchase steaks and things of that nature? why are there more limits around the types of products that can be purchased?

there are high sugar items and snack foods, all of this. i don't feel like that is an efficient use of the funds there provided, and as a taxpayer it is a little frustrating when they come by things that i can't -- they can buy things that i can't. guest: the benefit is not that much money. one person is complaining they are buying things that are too expensive. another person is complaining they are buying things like potato chips that are very cheap. think about all of the opinions people have. someone may have saved up their benefit all month to celebrate their kid graduating high school. host: ethan, ohio, joseph, good morning. caller: or the recipients drug

test -- are the recipients drug tested before they receive benefits? guest: they are not drug tested before they receive benefits. people are not drug tested before they receive tax credits. the idea that this is even on the table is going back to the stereotypes that if people need help and must be because they are doing something wrong. host: as far as places who compensate for food shortages how do food banks fit into the picture,? guest: food banks are an important source of support, but they cannot make up for constant snap. they do not have the resources. already your hearing reports from a lot of banks across the country, with the emergency allotment dropping, they are seeing increasing demand that they are struggling to keep up

with. sit banks often have to have shelfstable things, shelved goods, pasta. host: from ben in owen's mill, maryland. caller: the last 2 collars proved what i am about to say. people are really mean. i was in a grocery line about a week ago, and a young lady was purchasing, i guess she was using an ebt card. someone in line said "she is buying lobster with my taxpayer's money!" bill use fake crabmeat to dress their salad. i am a political, but mostly on

the right side, people are buying surf and turf and living this lavish lifestyle off of an ebt card. where does this come from? it really makes it difficult for these people. they are not proud they have to use an ebt card to supplement. i'm not sure why people are so mad. i see it mostly on the right. it is not fair to these people, and it is not true. host: thank you. guest: i really appreciate that story, because i do think it highlights that a lot of what people perceive is about what is going on in their own heads, and not what is going on in their outside world.

i wish i had an answer about how we can make people have more empathy and compassion for each other. i think more conversations. realize it really is your friends and neighbors receiving snap benefits. host: we have set aside a line for those receiving snap benefits. that is the experience of jack. caller: thank you for the information. it is good stuff. can you tell me where i can get more information on other benefit programs? guest: sure. snap and other benefits are largely run at the state level. unfortunately, there is not a great national page that will tell you about everything available. there are some things that try, but i'm not sure they do great job.

looking at your state name and human services. most states have both online applications as well as numbers you can call. particularly, if you explain your situation, you can get directed to the programs you might need. host: "the snap hot foods ban is un-equitable and should be removed." can you elaborate on that? guest: you cannot buy hot foods. you cannot buy a rotisserie chicken at the grocery store. host: what you find everywhere. guest: this is a thing that you should not be buying already prepared foods, but the way they enforce it is it is literally about hot foods. it is a ridiculous example because it is a loss leader for stores.

it is more inexpensive to buy a fully cooked chicken than a raw chicken. if people have physical limitations, sometimes food that is already cooked is literally a lifesaver, because if you do not have the energy or capacity to cook at the end of the day. it is also about respecting people's ability to make choices that are good for themselves. you can't use snap at a restaurant. i think it is a continuation of that. some 7-eleven actually sells enough foods to accept snap benefits. it doesn't make sense to people ended often just means people

feel like -- people, and it often just means people feel like they are getting singled out. host: what is the average benefit? guest: i don't have the number in front of me. host: $254 benefit per household. guest: it is adjusted according to how much of their spent income you have, so it is less than the maximum amount, but it is not a huge amount of money. i think it often works out to just a couple of dollars per meal each day. you think of going to the grocery store. if one apple costs you a dollar, and you have little kids who want blueberris, that pint of blueberries may only last five minutes if you have a toddler around. a a lot of farmers markets have

programs where they accept ebt. many also have a program where you get a bonus box for shopping for fruits and vegetables. it this primarily at farmers markets, sometimes at other locations as well. i don't think you can go directly to the farm. stores need to be approved to participate in the program. host: we have a viewer in upper marlboro. caller: i think the most recent conversation is low hanging fruit for people who see it at grocery stores, but these same people -- and this is not a criticism -- they would probably have the same disdain for someone who is not paying taxes costing our country billions of dollars.

here you have people who have been down on their misfortune and having challenges. our system has been designed to take care of the least among them. we should look at it, as the young lady said, with empathy. i am not a recipient of any of the programs, but my family has been over the years, ended has been able to help us to get to -- and it has helped us been able to get to a point where we are stable. i look at it as a different lens. there are billions being squandered because people are not paying their taxes, that we do not even get concerned about. host: thank you. guest: i want to lift up the

point that these benefits can be a steppingstone and a pathway to a better life. there is some interesting research based on the fact that states adopted this program at different times. having access to snap really does improve long-term what kids grow up -- how much education they have, their health, their ability to have jobs. this is the best investment in their future we can possibly be making. host: this is also twitter. "if you can explain how work can be required when the recipient has no transportation?" guest: you have heard me talk about this is a time limit and not a work requirement. it does not require the state to make sure people have transportation or childcare.

i guess the time limit does not apply to people in childcare, but eldercare. you are on your own. find something. good luck. or else. snap does have an employment in training program that some people are able to do, and that can offer help in transportation, that is a smaller program, and not all people have access to it. host: snap recipient in chicago joins us. caller: hello. i was calling because i heard some of the comments asking if people are tested for drugs before receiving benefits. i am a preschool teacher. i work full time, but i only receive $23 a month. i am a snap recipient. i feel so offended.

i work every day, and i just need that extra help. that's all i have to say. host: thank you, candace. guest: this is based on people's stereotypes of who they think gets assistance. that is not the reality of who gets assistance. preschool teacher! that is an important job, but not a job that pays a lot of money. host: as far as the program overall, are there changes needed to help how the program is administered? guest: i think there is always room for improvement. one example is in order to get snap benefits you need to have an interview with a caseworker who goes over your information into the information you have given. the difference of letting people call in at a time

that is convenient, to them as opposed to "you will get a call at this time," cuts the amount of people who are denied benefits because they missed the interview in half! we can make this less of a bureaucratic process, treat people with dignity and respect, and did not try and treat them like they are trying to get away with something. host: we will hear from ken in tennessee. caller: good morning. i will get right to my point. at one time, you could not pass a bill in congress for firm subsidies without a snap component, and vice versa. you could not advance a bill that had a snap component without a firming component. but for the grace of god there i

go. i have never had to use it. i have never had to walk in those shoes. i pray to god that i never have to. the food subsidies, snap program, and vice versa, thank you. guest: that is a great question. this year congress is taking up the farm bill, which includes the opportunity to make changes to snap and all of the agricultural subsidies, environmental programs. it as a huge program, and in general there has been sort of a trade-off because all of these pieces are tying together, if you do not do something that everyone can agree on, the bill won't move. we know some of the house republicans have spoken about

coming back in the farm bill and that trying to make even more cuts to snap. i think if they do that it will blow up the farm bill. if anything we need to think about how to make snap a better program. host: we will have one more call, james in philadelphia, a snap recipient. hi. caller: i wanted to talk to miss elizabeth. i have a very specific question. when it comes to snap benefits in philadelphia, the municipality created a beverage tax, a soda tax. the soda tax is 0.15 cents an. ounce they are paying 1.5 cents per

ounce for whatever sugary beverage it is, can you complain to the department of agriculture? when you buy anything with tax on it, they take the tax off because they see you are a snap recipient, but this is the one tax that actually goes from the fire directly to the city. i don't understand when every other taxes wiped out, this philadelphia beverage tax, which is 1.5 cents an ounce, that is coming directly from these individuals' benefits. i wanted to know if the citizens of philadelphia could file a formal complaint.

guest: i don't know the answer to that question. it is something i could follow up on later, but in general, snap benefits are intended just for the food. one of the things that has just rolled out is in all states it is possible to use your snap benefits to order groceries online. this was an innovation that was needed during the pandemic, but you still can't use snap benefits to pay for the delivery fees. it helps with these food desert concerns about people being in areas without grocery stores, if one of the participating grocers will deliver, which often times they won't do in some communities. the delivery fee is a remaining issue. host: the website is class.org. thank you for your come verse

asian -- your conversation. we will turn to matters of the house of representatives and other related topics. joining us for that cover station is matthew greene of catholic university through this that conversation is matthew greene -- for that conversation is matthew greene of catholic university. >> >> next week the house and senate returned with both chambers planning on votes to override vetoes by president biden. the house will attempt to override his veto on legislation that would blockis student loan forgiveness program in the senate will vote to override the president's veto on legislation to repeal the epa's heavy duty truck emissions rule. wednesday special counsel john durham appointed by then attorney general william bar testifies before the house

judiciary committee on his report looking into the fbi's investigation of then presidential candidate trumps alleged ties to russia. federal reserve chair jerome powell will appear before the house financial services committee and the senate banking committee wednesday and thursday on his department's semiannual ontario report. thursday evening the white house will hold a state enter for the indian prime minister, following his or marks to a joint meeting of congress earlier in the day. watch the next week live on the c-span networks or on c-span now, our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand any time. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. ohio democratic senator sharon

brown leads a bipartisan group of senators in a reading of darden -- dr. martin luther king jr.'s 1960 three letter from birmingham jail on the presidency in his book, becoming fdr, jonathan darman reveals how polio transformed franklin roosevelt into the man who led the country through the great depression and world war ii. exploring the american story. watch american history tv every weekend and find the full schedule oyo program guide or watch online anytime at c-span.org/history. ♪ ♪ >> visit c-span shop.org, c-span's online store and a save during our father's day sale going on now. save up to 15% on our c-span products sitewide. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operation. scanned the code on the right to shop during our c-span shop father's day sale going on now what c-span shop.org -- at

c-span shop.org. ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed, a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on the c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. matthew greene from catholic university joins us. he is the author of the book "the speaker of the house>" welcome back to the program. what is the best way to sum up the job speaker of the house? guest: it is a job that has a

lot of responsibilities. part of that is being the constitutional officer. it is also a partisan position. the majority's party -- the majority party's selection is elected. there is an operational side to it. the speaker has to run the house. the responsibilities, goals, and objectives conflict with each other, which can make it a difficult job. host: what we have seen between speaker mccarthy and some of the house republicans, is that a good example of that? guest: yes. mccarthy is expected to help his party achieve their agenda, but he has to work with democrats in the senate, and that requires compromise, which means not being able to do everything you would like to do

as a republican. i think it is a great example. we see that again and again in a divided government. host: how would you clarify what is going on within republicans themselves, and the disgruntlement between republicans and the speaker? guest:guest: what we have is a party that has internal divisions. that is not unusual in american politics. what we are seeing that mccarthy has to deal with is a conservative wing that is especially activist and outspoken, and very insistent that they are objectives be the ones that the house passes. mccarthy has to deal with this very restive faction in his party. we can talk more about the ways in which they pushed back

against mccarthy and made his job difficult. host: back in november you wrote this in an op ed. "house republicansaclow audits of success. there are steps party leaders should take to avoid the circuit, perhaps even preside over a successful two years in power." you wrote that before he took office. what do you see now? guest: i see mccarthy doing the high wire act i would say is necessary in today's politics. you do not entirely differ to one faction in your party. you find a way to incorporate some of their objectives. host: do we know them?

the house freedom caucus are generally the ones who have been causing disruption. describe them. guest: the house freedom caucus started back in 2015. they were willing to vote against party measures. by doing so they could defeat bills and special roles on the floor. that proved to be an effective threat -- special rules on the floor. that proved to be an effective threat. they changed their focus ideologically. not all of the dissenters mccarthy is dealing with our members of the freedom caucus, and not on members of the freedom caucus are vocal dissenters, but this is a continuation of the mode that the freedom caucus used.

you are willing to vote against rules, even if it means your party loses on the floor. host: you said that speaker boehner had to deal with this. how did he deal with it? guest: if i had to summarize, i would say bader took a more -- boehner took a more punitive approach, which was to shut out these members, deny them opportunities for influence, and it backfired. it didn't work. these are folks who already said they felt like they were marginalized, so what more could you do to us? what mccarthy learned from that experience, and his other interactions, is that you have to use what we call, or what the biographer for tim o'neill called the politics of inclusion. you bring them into the decision-making process, so they

feel like they are part of the legislative process. by doing so, they have a stake in the game. it is not a cure-all, but i think that approach has been more beneficial for mccarthy, and may have been more beneficial if boehner had adopted it. host: if you want to ask our guest questions, it (202) 748-8000 for republicans. (202) 748-8001 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. can you elaborate? you said it was beneficial for speaker mccarthy. guest:as part of the deal that mccarthy reached with these rebels in order to get enough votes to be elected speaker, he

agreed to put three conservatives on the committee, including folks like tom matthews from kentucky, who is one of the most independent minded lawmakers in the house right now. that is a risk, but he said i am willing to let you have more of a say in how the house operates. if they are part of that process, they are less likely to be on the outside attacking their own party. host: it was earlier this week that the speaker was on fox, speaking about what you referenced, the amount of power he shares with his party. here is of the discussion. [video clip] >> there are some members who claimed there was a power-sharing agreement when you were up for speaker in january. 6 people can shut down the gop agenda, so you must have a lot

of power-sharing agreements because all it takes is 6 people to get together and say "we are not going along." what are they saying you are going to share power with them and not everyone else in your conference? >> you look at what we have done on committees. i have been able to take all philosophical beliefs and put them on all different committees. i promised to take us back to that 2020 number. nondefense is below 2022 numbers. your home state senator does not believe that. senator lindsay wants to spend even more. we made president biden sign things he would have never signed into law. that is what we did when we

stuck gather -- stuck together. host: the comments of the speaker, what did you think? guest: my first thought in response to that is i think what senator mccarthy is referring to is he is bringing other representatives within the factions together. they're called the five families. it is not just conservatives that are part of that decision-making process. it is the freedom caucus getting the most attention. you have these other factions saying "they are driving the agenda." that is why i like the idea of the high wire act, where mccarthy has to do just enough to make the loudest voices happy, not so much that the rest of the party feel shut out. host: it it's probably

interesting for them to see what is going on. guest: the point being made in that interview is he needs 5 republicans to vote with the democratic party and they will lose on the floor. those 5 could come from any section. host: that seemed to resolve itself. do you think that will reinstate itself as the rest of the session goes on? guest: i hesitate to predict the future, but i would be surprised if there were no more future rebellions of this type. i thank the folks who did it, some of them at least have been consistently opposed to mccarthy, either's speakership or the parties agenda so far this year. it is hard to believe that these folks will completely surrender.

host: let's hear from our viewers. this is keith starting us off in alexandria, virginia. caller: good morning. i have a basic question about decorum for a speaker of the house. when president trump was delivering one of the state of the union addresses, and then afterwards speaker pelosi literally tore up the speech behind him afterwards was she fined for that and was she in violation of any house decorum rules? guest: that is good question. i'm not sure she was in violation of any rules. there is decorum. you're supposed to avoid these kind of gestures. since pelosi was the speaker, it

is hard to punish unless members of her own party are willing to do so, and that is the downside to a majoritarian institution. the majority party is not likely to punish one of their own leaders. what we have seen in the house over the last 20 plus years is an increasing violation of host: 20 on the line for republicans. he is in texas. thank you for having me. my question is this, paul ryan seems like the perfect fit -- not as bad as mccarthy. not as extreme as mccarthy or spineless.

what is the downside to him running for president? guest: i cannot speak for him running for president. as far as his time in office, the speakership, someways he was a good fit for that position because he is very astute with policy and widely popular among different spectrums, different groups in their republican party. he also have to want the job. paul ryan case, his goal was to be a committee chair. instead he ended up having to be speaker because no one else wanted the job. that was by the way an asset for paul ryan because of certain groups in the party say to him, you better do xyz or else, he would say, i do not want the job. i would just leave. please do not leave. no one else wants it. it is a practical matter. they want to do other things. host: as far as style, how does

paul ryan differ from john boehner speaker mccarthy? guest: again the biggest thing for him was policy. a policy made and that helped him a lot. people have respect for his knowledge and willingness to try to get legislation enacted. not for like she was just in for the game. the flipside meant be able on policy meant that there were other tasks of the speaker that folks look to you. being involved in election campaigns and things like that. paul ryan even said i do not want to be speaker unless i get have my weekends off which is not possible in today's politics because speakers are from raising visiting districts. it is not that kind of job. host: tom in pennsylvania. independent line. caller: good morning.

i am listening to this discussion and the one thing that should be clear to everybody who is watching this program, listening to it, this is what you get when you elect radical crazies to be your congressional representatives. you got a handful of people that would rather blow up the government then find a solution to any problem. there are -- their agenda is disruption. the voting public has to stop being more responsible and make rational choices about who it is they are voting to be representatives and think about the craziest people in the world like jim jordan.

it astounds me that the democratic party does not have a publicity arm that can keep highlighting what these people are up to and what they are up to mainly is disruption and destruction. guest: this is a common criticism of freedom caucus. they are radical, do not support -- they are to deal with. i think from their perspective, they are saying come there is serious problems this country bases and we cannot afford to compromise. we need to push the boundaries to fix these problems like the deficit. i think there's a lot of voters who share that sentiment and that is why these folks are successful in getting elected. host: how does the speaker do as far as dealing with these various factions?

as a personal matter, it 101 or is it more reaching out to each party involved? does your his underlings do it? guest: mccarthy is gregarious. he loves talking to people. he is a political animal in that respect. you can see it if you watch the footage of these valids -- ballots for mccarthy. he is talking to individual members. he does not like to defer these things to other people. i think that helps him deal with folks even when they disagree with him, they respect the fact that he listens to them, talking with them, trying to find some resolution to any conflict. host: andre, independent line, from wisconsin. caller: yes, correct. great show as always. i appreciate the dialogue this morning.

i keep coming back to this word called compromise. i'm not sure there's ever been time in recent history where the two sides cannot have logistic compromise where everyone did not get what they wanted but they got some of what they wanted. i'm thinking with her every beer future talked about -- will there ever be a feature talking about being able to compromise, come together and figure out -- let's figure out what we can do together. i'm not sure if i'm dreaming of that feature but i'm thinking it has to be a better way than what we have been doing. i want to get your thoughts in terms of some of that. guest: i tell my students compromise is essential for the american political system to function. i think the debt limit agreement recently approved by congress and signed into law is a good example of what you are talking about. each side had to give something. the bill passed with majorities

of both parties in hostile residences which is remarkable. -- in the house of representatives which is remarkable. if you look more closely at what congress does, they do a lot of things in bipartisan fashion. a couple political sciences who wrote a book about this where they show even in today's congress, you see a good number of bills passing with bipartisan support and very little conflict. we are not seeing bipartisanship actually happening in the lower level. but it is happening. host: you talked about the debt ceiling but it was a portion of the freedom caucus that rebelled because they did not get more from the debt ceiling debate which stopped the passage of bills for a short time. talk about that. guest: again it is the high wire act. host: it ended up