♪ host: good morning it is wednesday, june 21, 2023. the house and senate will vote at 10 a.m. eastern which means

we have the next three hours on washington journal. we discussed the justice department in the years long probe in attacking the -- hunter biden will probably stay out of jail and it was quickly criticized by other saying it is too lenie we want to know what you think about the hunter biden lee deal. we are divided by parties. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003 if you do text us tell us where you are from. and you can also comment on facebook.com/these ben wj. -- c-span wj.

the reporter on this hunter biden story, joins us via zoom this morning. good morning to you. guest: good morning. host: when it comes to the tax charges wedded hunter died in here when it came -- hunter biden here when he came to -- when it came to the tax charges? guest: in 2017 and 2018 he has all of the taxes -- that are unpaid. you cannot not to pay your taxes. and hunter biden has maintained this since the beginning. he is pleading guilty on this now as you noted at the very top.

we are going to have to see what actually happened in or it.

and in 2018 hunter was in delaware -- and in 2018 hunter was in delaware and he was found to be on crack cocaine. so this crime carries maximum and multi-of 10 years in jail. and this shows that they basically decided to divert this prosecution. essentially if hunter biden -- what we have been told is there will be drug testing for a certain period of time. and extra probationary period. if he maintains that agreement

for a certain period of time, it will be dismissed altogether. host: how unusual is this type of plea deal when it comes to those charges on the tax side and the gun possession side? guest: lawyers will tell you that millions of people do not file or pay their taxes in a timely way. there are not millions of misdemeanors charged for that every single year. those charges probably would not have happened if -- a lot more complicated because it is a crime that has been tried more frequently in the last several years. there are a lot of people that have guns that also use drugs including marijuana which is a substance on the role level area

so those that own or possess a gun while -- the majority of those are not charged. there's a number of hype file cases and a smaller profile local cases in which people have gotten multiple years in prison for this same crime. hunter biden is -- if he abides by the standards in this agreement, he likely will not serve jail time. if he violates it, if he does not fulfill his mandatory testing and ins up --ends up falling off the wagon he will be prosecuted and face time. host: and what is the role of david weiss here? guest: he basically has been part of the investigation at a

local level. for five years going back to 2018. when merrick garland came into the justice department, they made a confidential decision while it is normal to run they see you as an attorney when the new administration comes in they did not replace him because they wanted to avoid any appearance of interfering with the hunter investigation in particular. host: the most interesting reaction you have seen. you mentioned the criticism and does on capitol hill. what do you watch for? guest: the thing i am most interested in is the reaction that i hear in the white house. and hunters team. there's a profound sense of reliefhat hunter will likely not be serving jail time. i think there was a real fear and also some fear on his team that this investigation is never going to end.

essentially the prosecutor not wanting to upset either side essentially would not make a prosecutorial final decision until after the 2020 election. joe biden, essentially you wake up every day scared that your son is going to read the apps -- relapse. with this investigation and this flurry of attacks which obviously will not end obviously, but you have this attack hanging over your son ted also -- your son's head while also trying to stay sober is hard. this is a psychological personal relief. you have to remember that hunter is the only living family member after the 1972 accident that killed other family members.

hunter is the only person surviving from the accident. it creates a special goal -- special psychological need for him to be there. host: is it over for hunter biden and justice department? is this the end of it? guest: we will learn more in the arraignment. but they suspect this is the end. the investigation is ongoing but is that because they have the possibility and case information comes to light. but the hunter scene has been very clear because they understand -- they expect us to be the end of the federal investigation into hunter. -- a lot of them have made clear th ty have an attempt for a special prosecutor or it may

reopen some investigations into the biden panel. host: he is a national correspondent at axios and you can find him online or at twitter at alex tallman th omp. and we are asking for your opinion on the hunter biden plea deal. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls and just a second but i want to get to headlines. conservatives slam the doj's sweetheart plea deal -- their headline getty means -- mainst pressutlets make laughable reclamation's in an attempt to defend hunter biden's the deal. that is the headline there. over to salon.com. and what about-ism is the

headline there at salon.com. the gop immediately rushes to shift the goalposts over hunter biden plea deal. and another says hunter biden will plead to federal charges as trump concedes -- just kidding but the hunter biden part is true. phone lines as usual with democrat, republican, and independent divisions. this is danny in north carolina. good morning to you. caller: good morning. to me, this is nothing more than a sweetheart deal then democrats have worked up. this is a two-tiered justice system in the united states right now area one for republicans and one for democrats. dimock rats did know wrong. this is something that everybody

should be looking at with eyes wide in. and not only that, aside from the hunter biden thing, what about everything else going on. -- good. democrat. caller: good morning. hunter biden was never president of the united states. he did not serve in a black office. yes, he has the misdemeanor attached and a lot of people do. but trump was -- the president. republican are angry and upset that trump finally -- they went aftetrp. he tried to overturn the election because he is lost.

-- the republican party is just -- is -- trump has gotten $2 million from the story. why has he gotten all of that money? has anybody investigated that? host: this was the post after the news broke yesterday around morning time east coast on the hunter biden plea deal. the corrupt biden doj cleared up hundreds of years of mental liability by giving biden a mere traffic ticket. our system is broken area that is the reaction yesterday with hunter biden's father.

he was of the roundtable event in california yesterday. one of the reporters there asked about the plea deal and this is the president reef remark -- brief remarks. >> i ask the press to come through. thank you for coming in. [indiscernible] >> i'm very proud of my son. host: president biden yesterday traveling in california after that reaction on capitol hill as well. it was speaker of the house kevin mccarthy who was at a new event responding to the news about hunter biden. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> it continues to show the two-tier system in america. if you are the president facing

a political opponent, the doj can literally put you in jail in prison. if you're the president's son it is a sweetheart deal. this should enhance our investigation because the doj should not be able to withhold any information now for a pending investigation. they should be able to provide any information that is required. >> this is a trump appointed u.s. attorney over this administration. why would you set aside the investigation and just at septa it on merit given the person who is investigating. ? ? >> i am asking you -- >> i am asking you. >> i am asking you if you have the president son compared to the other people in america that have the same accusation and crimes they are guilty of that they were supposed to have 10

years of time i think that is different justice. host: speaker mccarthy yesterday on capitol hill pledging the congressional investigation into the foreign business dealings involving the biden family will continue on capitol hill. taking your calls this morning we want to hear your reaction to the hunter biden deal this is douglas in ohio, independent. good morning. caller: good morning how are you doing today? host: i'm doing well. what do you think about the deal? caller: i think it is ok, but every day it is -- then it has been. you look at every side that is the two-tiered justice system -- donald trump was president, joe biden is president but his son is not why should he be punished for his sin -- his son's sin? he shouldn't be. he made a good deal and let it go. hey, just one thing else i would

like to say. i would like to live free and die under trump's presidency. thank you. host: this is illinois, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i was just -- i got to waste my and about the judge himself is a blue ticket judge. for one. if anybody is listening in chicago that is a democrat that voted for joe biden and their child has been persecuted for any criminal -- crimes maybe they ought to change your last name to biden and that is what we all would do and we could get away with everything. the man is guilty of sin there should not be more treatment -- special treatment because he is the president son. if it was donald trump's one of his boys they would be in jail right now. host: what are your thoughts on the point that has been brought appear that the attorney -- for

u.s. attorney was investigating this the holdover from the trump administration to allow to stay in the switchover of the biden administration to finish his investigation. david weiss. i'm sure you've heard his name already. caller: i have heard his name already. he is still a blue ticket judge. he was recommended by -- and there was another one that are both democrats. they suggested him to donald trump and donald trump ok'd it. i understand that but he is still a loo ticket. he is still a lou -- blue ticket. he is still a blue judge. host: do you think donald trump should be regretting his appointment? caller: well maybe he should not listen to certain people sometimes. i mean, maybe he thought that kunz and other democrats -- that

they were up and up on what doing it was, but i still think it -- once donald trump got out of office i think that is where your get your foot lost. he may be a good judge but that does not mean he can change his ways. host: the judge -- broke the news yesterday about the plea deal with hunter biden. 53 years old. the president's son. a photo of him on the front age of the washington times today. hunter biden avoids jail after a plea. in philly, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. host: what are your thoughts this morning? caller: i think it is amazing. i am sitting up here laughing to myself.

i am a 75-year-old black man. there has always been a two-tiered justice system as far as i am concerned. if you are poor, you understand that you will do the time if your crime is confirmed. and people are still running around screaming about a two-tiered rest is just one of a straight it out by instigating donald trump's family? you understand? , joe biden's fun is paying the price, you understand, what about the trump family? that is all. have a good day. host: cara, massachusetts. independent. good running. caller: hello. first of all to put somebody on from axios and calling tax evasion a misdemeanor and

calling a felon who he touched upon marijuana when he was a heroin addict, i would say that was the wrong introduction in all honesty to try to get to both sides of the question. more important lee, merrick garland should be impeached because we can blame joe biden for being a dad who win he taught right from wrong to his children, he was a snake in the grass himself. this is why the children then learned if you cheat, you live, you get ahead. it is ok. in the words of joe biden, everybody should pay their fair share of taxes. everybody should pay taxes and not prolong of how they worded it, put it -- put off paying taxes. [laughter] as if it had been an

afterthought oig not pay 17 and 18 taxes. no, i evaded them. the injustice is showing up in the country and it will bite joe biden in the rear end because he is reached something and is living by another rule. all i can say is that i know hunter biden it's -- is the son, but usually the acorn does not fall far from the tree. he has learned things over the years to cheat and lie to get ahead. this will open a whole can of worms now for joe biden to try to his innocent when it comes to what -- he might have been appointed by strauss as he was knotted trump person. everybody tried to pull the wool over a noncompetition who had not been there for 53 years and seen the dirty side of all it takes and who you can appoint.

this position or that position to get your agenda ahead. host: you mentioned your opinion about axios. i imagine you do not have a high opinion of the new york times? caller: i find the new york times in washington -- i can never get the two washington's straight. not the journal, but the paper. host: the washington post and the times are the two. caller: i find them very slanted to one side area i wish we had like a gentleman said last week, as side that gives you pros and cons. they even did that on saturday night live as a joke. but i think if you had two sides of the story it would be very nice. for us to learn, there's a lot of under educated voters out there. and i'm hearing a lot of them -- i find with c-span it is interesting because it is soaked

in my eyes of people that vote that should really be taking a test before they vote because i really feel that there was a lot of misunderstanding of where our politics or politicians are coming from. host: a topic that we can talk about another morning on this first hour of washington journal. we appreciate your call on the new york times and the topic of mary garland. you brought up at the beginning of your comment they wrote an entire story today. here is the headline garland distant from the hunter biden line -- hunter biden inquiry. this is just a lead from that story. attorney merrick garland was away when the deal was announced for hunter biden. it goes against what -- the investigation into his son. he was absent from the country when it happened and not by calculation.

and the story taking a look at merrick harlan's efforts and the distance from that. if you want to read it it is in the new york times today. this is jackie in helena, ohio. republican. good earnings. -- good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to call with the comment about how everybody says joe biden loves his sons a much. i'm quite sure he knew his son was a drug addict but he kept sending him off and giving him 10% not just from our enemies but also ukraine. it has already been uncovered, it is a fact, they have the roof . everybody needs to quit saying how much they feel sorry for hunter. that is joe's ticket to the money because he does not want to see hunter locked up because that will stop his any flow again. host: the washington times takes a look at the latest on that --

those allegations likely to her joe biden when it comes to independent voters. here is their wrap-up of the allegations. jeff warnock with the story in washington times today. he will be on the program a little later in the 8:00 hour. an informant told mr. biden wildly obama administration would pay $5 million to the executive of -- they made separate $5 million payments to hunter biden. according to republican lawmakers, it was found in a document that detailed the information that provided that fbi and it was described as trusted and highly credible. according to the house oversight and a credibility chairman. also they expect -- spent thousands of dollars expecting them to fire -- according to mr.

cromer and the lawmakers who viewed this one of three document. that is a wrap up of what the -- 103 document. that is a wrap up of what they are looking into. this is independent, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. it is to be taken as a freedom that our political representatives are both individuals that in body members of civil society with their own private interest. i think this legal rift with bidens son and the contents of his laptop with trump, there are multiple facets where he is -- jurist and legalists that are just ending these individuals in terms of hush money payment with trump and then the handling of

classified documents. in trump's case, the impulse to take things with him. my only comment would be that it is highly discouraging to people who are looking at a career in politics. it is tedious to see this drawn out with this empty speculative activity a whole class of gerunds in washington dc. thank you so much. host: this is john in florida, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: doing good. caller: with the hunter biden deal he got a sweetheart deal. i have a sister in jail and it was -- there was a document

wrote -- turn into a garbage can near the school and she is doing time. and with the tax evasion charges they should have team -- seen time as well. but as we get hunter biden a breeze the making $1000 above or whose expertise in gas and energy which he is not whatsoever, i am interested to see what they have to they about that, his visit partner, and a lot of things that joe biden was into. this was done to appease multiple iq voters. they don't know what is going on and i hate to say demo at but it is democrats. it's funny how they are all coming in today and talking about trump. this topic has nothing to do with the former president this topic is about the current president's son and his tax evasion charges that he pled guilty to now. and lying on federal drug -- gun

reform and throwing the gun into a garbage can next to us will -- a school. and like i said my sister is in prison right now for basically the same thing. let's keep our eyes on the prize because the big guy want 10 percent and hunter said all around the world in china on heirs -- air force to joe. this is a big story. i'm glad you guys are covering it. and as far as the new york times, the washington post, i don't know why you read them. it is misinformation i don't know what you want to call it i call it good old-fashioned lies -- lying. they kept printing the russian collusion -- they reprinted it for two years. if we go back -- host: we got your point. on the fbi russia investigation, more on that today and the

durham report. john durham the former special counsel set to be on capitol hill today before the house judiciary committee at 9 a.m. eastern. the house is meeting at 10 a.m.. and this is before they come in on the house floor. it will be on sees and three -- on c-span3 and it will also be on c-span.org or on our free video mobile app is been now. and i have -- c-span now. -- their respective efforts in the social security administration to clean up the back on. the house oversight -- subcommittee on this. this will be on c-span.org or the free c-span video now at. and we are talking about hunter biden's plea deal in the first

hour of washington journal today. call in on that topic. republicans --democrats (202) 748-8000 , republicans (202) 748-8001 , independents (202) 748-8002. this is a story on a different topic on capitol hill this is with daniel alito, appropriate with the story today. they've done a number of words looking into x form -- x reform justices. they said that they took luxury fishing vacations with gop leader. i will tell you the lead of the story. in early july 2008, on the remark cover of alaska, riverbank, the supreme court justice was on vacation. after catching a cake salmon, he posted a picture. a man posting the hedge fund

billionaire was repeatedly asked the supreme court to rule in his favor. he is more than a fellow angler he flew to toledo on a private jet. he if he would have chartered the plane himself it would have cost exceeding $100,000. they say that his hedge fund manager in the cases before the court costs ethics questions for the court to answer. saying -- republican.org there is more on that. and there's a picture of him on the fishing trip. the thing that makes the thing that makes this story interesting today, yesterday the washington journal published -- samuel alito trying to get ahead of this story. the editors note -- on the op-ed today noted that justin elliott and josh -- that labels itself

as an independent nonprofit news loon -- newsroom. emailed them friday with a series of questions and asked them to respond by tuesday. they in warm them -- they informed them -- here is justice alito's response. that response in -- fizzes some of what he said. charging against me i should recuse in matters that affect -- and second that i was obliged to list certain items in my 2008 financial disclosure. he said my regulation -- regulation -- recollection when it comes to him, was all but small talk. and on fishing trips 15 years ago it was casual events. on no occasion have we discussed the activity of the his business and we never talked about any

case or issue before the coat -- court. he introduced me to. he allowed me to occupy what would have been in an occupied -- in alaska. it is under my judgment it would not cause a reasonable person to doubt my ability to decide matters of question of impartiality when it comes to the case or court. it goes on from there. but send real alito's response from publicly.org. you can read both of them. back to your calls on the hunter biden plea deal. that is what we've been talking about in the first hour. claudia out of north carolina. republican. good morning. caller: yes, i was wondering if we were talking about alito or hunter biden? host: we are doing hunter biden this morning but it's an interesting story to make viewers aware of.

caller: ok. i was thinking that if we were wondering, it was my understanding that if we had separate bodies of government, we had the justice, administrative, congress and each of them served a different up is for the americanubc. we are assuming that these branches of government are operating separately to protect the interest of the american people. we the people by the way are the government. but what you keep saying on this program is that the judge -- i am not being protective of trump, biden, or anyone, i'm just making a statement that why are we talking about the drug appointed judge? this man took this position out of personal conviction.

so we should not make a difference of whether he is republican or dim at watt -- democrat. why you all make the point, you did this three times in the first 10 in its of the program that he was trump appointed trump appointed. do you think he's going to make a decision based upon trump appointing him? is that the point you were trying to make? i personally don't -- host: do you think he made a fair decision based on what we know about the case? caller: no i don't. there are charges about hunter biden with the finances and it took them five years to do this investigation. no, i don't think it -- i think what they are doing is they are sweeping all this under the rug so that higher to the now we are talking about running for presidency. it appears, if it appears that

there was a measure of justice dealt out to hunter biden, just talked the surface of it. then everybody is supposed to forget about it. but see people in america are not going to forget about it. they know there are charges with paris smut and they are watching a former president being taken up for charges and being investigated and punished. we want to see fair andy justice. host: that is claudia north carolina. with the u.s. attorney prosecutor here, not the judge, the lead deal was made with the justice department. and the plea deal filed by the u.s. attorney there is running for the district of delaware. this is rhoda in minneapolis. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say you know

that republicans are really something. they have congress coming out. the irs is now good because they are going -- it will be better because it goes after hunter biden and his dads rod. i want to say -- i'm more worried about what mitch mcconnell will do more than what is going on with hunter biden. i know that is not bad, but we all make mistakes. he made a lee deal. that is the thing that people do not understand. he made a plea deal. and i am asking people to wake up. if george bush's daughter did this, would they be doing the same, fishing? come on now. it is easy hunter biden eight a mistake. it is bad but we all make mistakes. he is an addict first and foremost. he should get rehab rather than punishment. but we want to punish him because he is the resident.

-- president. host: this is dan in illinois saying i think that could have negotiated a deal for himself. and i have to ask how does the ira leading the special deal with hunter with thousands of people sitting in prisons with millions of dollars of tax fraud. can somebody say political favoritism? i'm not surprised with the leniency he got. realizing there are no consequences for his action in order -- that is part of the problem. john independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. first and foremost, david weiss was serving as the acting assistant u.s. attorney of l aware and was originally appointed in 2007 by barack obama. so to clear that whole situation

up, he was first appointed i/o obama to be assistant attorney and trump just reappointed him. secondly, i come from a law enforcement family, i have a spec for the law and force make when it comes to a local se nse. i am really skeptical when it gets to the federal level with what i've seen the last few years. they had an agreement with prosecutors to justify donald trump and he was forgotten one point $7 million approximately in taxes. he served five months in rikers island. i do not think hunter biden actually you know what i'm trying to say, he has the prosecutor to turn the state evidence against somebody else he just took a deal -- a plea

deal. as far as coming down to the other case, both of the cases were simple. these items should have been prosecuted in less than a year. not five years. the last thing i want to say is when it comes to another thing with hunter you should read his book. he made $85,000 a month approximately and he said he spent it all on drugs and constitute -- prostitutes. and then where does he get this money that he reported on his taxes? host: got your point with the timing of prosecution use that it should have been one year in debt of five years. news yesterday on a different case another high file case in loving donald trump and document retention, and date set for trial in that case, the federal judge is overseeing the

prosecution of the former president on the charges retaining national defense information. and it is a fast pace for court proceedings and the trial begins as soon august 14. the timeline is expected to be delayed including over classification of how to handle classified material in courtroom. the ball seat -- wall street journal writes that this could be pushed to 2024 for the trial well into the presidential campaign season. that is the wall street journal. this is doug in new jersey. republican area good morning. caller: yes, it seems to me like another long line of the key or not they are done by the dim at party. you know a lot of low information -- democrat party. a lot of the low information of trump supporters would say good but the real charges are shell companies that the -- biden with

burisma and ukraine. the bidens taken bribery money from china. this is something that comber claims he has so either he is lying or he is getting stonewalled by the doj and the at the i. -- the fbi. but these charges the average person would be sitting in jail but not hunter biden. these are little compared to the real charges which is selling access to our country for tens of millions of dollars through shale company. and he pointed that out before the 2020 election. they said he was a liar and i do not think he was lying. he discussed that -- democrats -- don't talk about democracy with this stuff. when you're trying to jail the former resident of the united states on august charges of classified materials that he is allowed to have unlike vice president who are not allowed to

have it. they want to give him 100 years in prison for this and yet hunter biden sells our country to our adversaries area thank you. host: former speaker of the house in today's pages of the washington times calling it an american crisis. not too late to use topic but the clock is ticking. referring to some of the charges against the former president. this is eric and california, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning america. we are talking about the two-tier justice system in america that no man is above the law. i went to prison for conspiring to deliver this thing called crack cocaine in the 90's under the federal laws. they helped me to jail.

donald trump has documents by the government. he stole. they ask them back and he refused to give them. he put people's lives in jeopardy. no man is above the law. donald trump's daughter got $2 billion. she worked in the white house y'all. you want to sit there and talk about this little thing with joe biden and the family. she walked out of there with $2 billion. where is the money going? what is she doing? host: this is alexis, north carolina. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. this is going to be fast. i have enjoyed this, but i had to call and add one thing. joe biden lost a mother and a sibling, i don't know whether it

was his son -- excuse me. hunter biden lost by mother and siblings would quite young -- and sibling when he was quite young. he was severely damaged by the automobile accident they were in. unfortunately i think it has left that is just my opinion, but i think the depression lead to addiction and anybody that his been addicted court is addicted knows how hard it is to quit and stay quit. so, i think there is a difference. the only thing he does close to the president is that he is the son.

he doesn't make policy, he doesn't suggest policy, and, i'm sorry you have to trash the guy the way you are, because we do make mistakes. host: 10 minutes left in the first segment of the washington journal. we are talking about the hunter biden plea deal. coming uin a little over an hour at 9:00 a.m. we have a hearing on the origin of the fbi russia investigation happening before the russian -- the hous judiciary committee. that is with the durham report. john durhams on the special counsel that will testify in that tub -- public hearing. we will broadcast it live on c-span now all our free video mobile app and expand.com. after the testimony, --

c-span.com. after the testimony, -- the reporters after the discussion here is what they had to say about their conversation with john durham yesterday. >> >> to hear from him that he -- policies need to go in place and there are still issues that need to be addressed. he was forthcoming and helpful with us. i think we have some information with renewal and reforms and reform issues with the fbi area i shea -- we appreciate -- we approached this together. of what is the next depth? this was a great partnership for that. >> i concur with everything the chairman said. we had in detail a lengthy examination of the special counsel durham's room or it.

we helped each other out and the committee really was focused on something so sensitive as an investigation that pertains to political candidates. how can we make sure the behavior and the investigating authorities of the fbi is beyond reproach? we have the email, the crossfire hurricane investigations, and very sensitive investigations who knows where it will go in the church. we know that we have to learn from mistakes made in this to make sure that americans have provident -- power of the federal government and their election. >> [indiscernible] >> i'm glad that we went first. i think having this environment allowed him to be very forthcoming and sharing of his

ideas. certainly, tomorrow will have a different purpose, but i do think he was very comfortable at this with the minute our members had on a bipartisan professional basis to deal with his work to share. >> the world is different when the cameras are running. behind closed doors cameras were not running. on both sides there was an to to get at the truth other than what you may see tomorrow which is to angle the truth a little bit in the service of one's little agenda area that did not happen in our meeting which is usual for this committee. host: that was chairman and ranking member of the intelligence committee meeting yesterday. you will hear from many of them as john durham testifies today beginning at 9:00 eastern. that is your phone call on hunter biden.

this is matt who his been waiting in pennsylvania. line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning thank you for c-span. i was part of the federal diverse program much like hunter was. it was 2000 and i was delivering electrical supplies to it. the guard -- i out-earn five pockets and down the point of two grams of marijuana. that is -- i was given six months on adderall probation. hunter biden cheated on his taxes, for $1.2 million, and lied on a gun application and he got two years, is that correct? host: i believe that is the number i saw. caller: ok he got two years and i got six months. so that is my story and what happened to be. -- to me.

-- thanks. host: stephanie new jersey democrat good morning. caller: morning. host: what are your thoughts on the hunter biden plea deal? caller: i think justice was served. i -- when people do not file their taxes sometime and they do not go to jail. two years i believe that he did not file taxes? host: anything else you want to add to that? caller: and the person, i forgot where he was but how dare -- i don't understand these people saying that joe biden is using his son to get his agenda. really?

host: that is stephanie. this is suzanne, independent maryland good morning. caller: hello. i have a basic question of why are we even talking about this? with all the issues in the world that are of an is, -- importance, we are talking about hunter biden? in all honesty, the two, the republicans when they compare trump and hunter biden, it is a joke. i mean, why are we continuing to do air time to this nonsensical debate. there are other issues in the world that we are talking about that c-span could help ring to light but instead we are wasting our time on hunter biden. host: do you think the media has spent too much time focusing on the trump story when donald trump was in office? caller: yeah, to some degree.

you know, i mean, that is my personal opinion and how it relates to his children. i think some of them have issues in the closet, but i think that trump kind of was not so -- i don't know what the word is, but that being said, yeah, it was probably a little too much. and i was wondering why we cannot get the media and c-span to help get the public unreal issues that need to be debated instead of these is issued issues about hunter biden. and i mean it is a joke when republicans call and they just need to get a better support of it -- better source of news because they are clearly getting crab. --crap. host: this is richie. florida. caller: good morning.

there are two issues in the united states. one for liberals and one or conservatives. russian novelist in 1861 wrote vied and punishment. for the liberals, it is crime without punishment. and for conservatives, it is punishment without crimes. if you are a conservative catholic in this country, you have the fbi on you, if you are a conservative parent in this country, you've got department of justice on you. it is quite evident that the bidens family is going to get away with this situation. that is all i have to say about that. host: new york this is john. democrat. good morning. caller: yeah i could care less about hunter biden. this is meaning was an irrelevant area and as far as

tears of justice, he is a idiot. it is not liberals and conservatives it is rich and poor. regardless of what color you are, black or white, if you've got money, you can away with things. and trump -- has $2 billion -- who cares? you know, these people, hunter biden, we have illegals during the border and people killing -- mass killing's was a.k.a. automated -- things that should be through the military. and we care about hunter biden? who cares about hunter biden? host: new york. this is john. independent. good morning. caller: good morning how are you today? host: doing well. caller: i appreciate what you

and c-span does. i shea on the ground like this you are trying to speak with people on the right. and when a situation with trump comes up all they talk about is hunter biden. this program in essence is trying to point to people right and criticize. host: i don't know if i call it that, this is the story that is in the news. the son of the resident of the united dates. -- united states -- president of united state. caller: what it amounts to is when you have a case about what was going on with trump, essentially it was not until this morning republicans are stating that this is a two tier justice system. and when trump was brought up in

the 39 page indictment, it was explained what was happening and why it was done. people on the right turned around and they wanted to know why they did not tell program such as this morning. you know, you do everything you can to hold these people -- to please the people on the right and yet they turn around, and the problem is, no matter what you and c-span do, which i believe -- i sincerely do appreciate that they do nothing but criticize you. they don't. and they would understand that holding a program like today is in their favor. not yours, but it is in the favor by you covering those and it is in the people's favor.

not anyone's favor whether it be the left or the right. they need to understand that. they brought up a situation when you're criticize this situation with hunter biden. it was by a trump appointed -- but they did not hear -- care to hear that. host: when it comes to the first hour of the journal with the discussion we have. we get criticized on both sides for the topic we choose. we try to find something in the news that is public policy related that is the lead story of the day, and give people a chance to talk about it. we are happy for any feedback on it. i appreciate your calls john. let me get dennis in, in alabama. good morning. caller: good morning.

i don't see much about it. it is two misdemeanors and a felony that falls off in two years. we are not after hunter. we are after his father. now that this case is over, we can subpoena hunter to come in. before our hands were off an o becauseff there was an investigation. hunter got a misconduct discharge out of the service. that disqualifies you from having a gun. the next step is nothing. trying to get your attention over here while all of this other stuff is going on over here. hunter is nothing. he is a recovering drug addict.

my heart goes out for him. he got mixed up with his family. it is a terrible family. i don't see that anybody who has any sense -- it is not over. this is just the beginning. host: our last color in this first segment of washington journal. stick around though. plenty more to talk around. we will be joined by elbridge colby. w we'll be talking about u.s.e- china relations. later jeff mordock will preview the interview with -- the hearing with john durham coming later today. stick around. we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv,

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about blinken's visi tot china. do you share their assessment? guest: not really. i would say it is largely optical at this point. just this morning it has been reported that the president referred to xi jinping as a dictator in california and that led to an excoriation by the french foreign ministry -- the chinese foreign ministry. i think we have not seen any structural change. we have not seen any fundamental change. the news this morning has purported that the chinese are stepping up coming missions around taiwan. i think calling it a thaw is aspirational on the part of the administration. i'm skeptical. host: why did china and xi

jinping take this meeting? guest: their reasons for wanting to -- there are reasons for wanting to change tactics. i don't think there is any long-term change in the strategy of the people's republic of china. the need for the u.s. -- chinese government to be ready for extreme scenarios -- the stress on china right now coming out of covid, and some of the less than stellar economic recovery, china is looking for some relenting tactically on the economic front. they are very concerned about some of the economic sanctions that have happened, that are potentially on the table. but my skepticism is also about the merits of this meeting.

xi jinping said something about secretary blinken. there have been very good agreements and this is,. on -- about secretary blinken. " there have been very good agreements, and this is very good." it is unclear what they agreed to. john kerry, sector yellen -- that is disturbing. there have been reports that the administration is hollowing out or watering down a bill on screening. i am all for talking to the chinese, but we should not be diluted. i was in singapore for the shangri-la dialogue. the minister there was very assertive, including on the taiwan issue. while we were there, the chinese

cut off an american vessel trends are saying the -- transiting the taiwanese straight. it was transiting with a canadian vessel, but they didn't stop the canadian vessel. i fear we are allowing that -- we are the ones who are supposed to write the boat that they have been shaking. host: phone lines as usual split by political party. [indiscernible] -- republicans, (202) 748-8000. democrats, (202) 748-8001. and independents, (202) 748-8002 . [video clip] >> it is a work in progress. this is something we need to do in the interest of both of our

countries, not only to establish, reestablish, and to strengthen lines of communication across our government, which we have done with this trip and i believe visits to follow by a number of my colleagues and chinese officials coming to the united states. it is hugely important if we are going to communicate clearly, and try to avoid the competition that we had. an aspect of that that is important is military to military. we do not have an agreement on that yet. that is something we will work on. that is something that is also profoundly in their interest. we agree that we want to make sure we do not inadvertently enter conflict because of a misunderstanding. host: he was talking about visits to follow. what would you be looking for on a visit to follow that would signify some more thawing here?

caller: i am genuinely perplexed -- guest: and genuinely perplexed, john. if we're talking about having conversations, in human history there has never been a war that started by accident. in the cold war the chinese and soviets shutdown american aircraft -- soviets shot down american aircraft. if we do not want to have a war, we won't have a war. it won't happen by accident. if blinken is talking about having discussions, i don't understand what is so important. the chinese are probably more right. they are the ones saying "there are substantive issues." what worries me is that they are pursuing something other than having channels of communication, going back to the policy that was difficult in the

obama administration, in which the administration's approach was competing while cooperating, where the -- the reality is this is a deep, structural rivalry. the administration's semiconductors are designed in that direction. they need to be coupled more on the military front, that i'm genuinely confused, and i imagine if i am confused, many others are too. this will inhibit the measures that are needed in the government and among our allies to negotiate. détente is where we want to get. we have to negotiate with the chinese, the people's republic, and a person like xi jinping from a position of strength.

optics are important here. i don't want to be trite, but the optics were the emperor receiving a supplicant. he bowed a little bit. he was seated in a throne room with xi jinping like a scolded child. i am exaggerating a little bit, but those are the optics. i fear that is what is happening. we cannot afford that. host: elbridge colby is our guest. he is currently with the marathon initiative, and the author of the 2021 book "the strategy of denial," a book we have covered on c-span's book tv, if you would like to see him talk about that book. he is talking with you viewers. we will start with tom in new mexico, and independent. caller: good morning. thank you for my call.

we need to keep the pressure on for human rights, taiwan,, the spy balloon covid, and now we have chinese troops in cuba, so please respond to that, if we keep the pressure on china. guest: i fully agree with you. i am fearful. i thought the spy balloon was very disturbing. the president referred to it as silly and yesterday at the fundraiser in california, he referred to it again. that thing is a very sophisticated, intelligence collection mechanism that flew across our country. you can be sure the chinese would have shot something like that down over there territory. that sends a signal to the world

and to the chinese. are we going to play as if we are at fault? that will have a chilling effect. i'm not in favor of unfettered complication. the way i think about it is look at how you negotiate with your political -- with the other party in congress. you don't preemptively giveaway concessions. you build up as much leverage as you can, and depressed for the best deal for your side. they are building a military and exercising a military, so all the more reason. "it is all a misunderstanding" -- blinken does not say that, but that is the vibe that you get. host: to virginia, this is evelyn, line for democrats. caller: good morning. host: what is your question or comment? caller: i can't believe that we

are pretending that our money is not making the chinese rich through elaine chao. how can we sit here and talk about this when we are making them rich with their own money. everything we shop with, made in china. when are we going to bring stuff back home, so we can grow our own? economy they are using our money to fight against us. guest: i really agree with the thrust of your policy statement here, which is that we should be re-shoring a lot of our economy. the chinese work hard. they are very intelligent. they are well organized, but we have to look back at the 30 year experiment of opening the u.s. economy to china as a massive failure.

we have built up the greatest rival we have ever faced. if they did not have that favorable trade treatment, they would not be wherei they are today. i think this is an area where democrats, republicans, and independents should come together. this is happening with things like the chips act. one area where you could really push this forward is on defense. my view is that the thing we absolutely have to get right vis-à-vis china is the military balance. we need to make it clear to china that they cannot advantageously use military forces. they have a lot of advantages of position. we are behind where we need to be, and we need to move fast. i think the defense industrial base is a place where across benefits we can -- across parties can accept benefits.

it will lead to a large re-shoring of jobs in things like shipbuilding, aircraft construction, welding, and all the jobs that go along with that. during covid there were trillions of dollars spent on stimulus. couldn't we have put some of that towards resuscitating our defense base? people say things are improving, but they are not yet. ro khanna, others on the china committee, that is an area where we should try to have -- host: to the show me state, this is michelle on the line for republicans. michelle, are you with us? caller: yes. these ships almost collided.

after that, the china general showed where the united states needs to mind their own business, and if they don't it could be devastating for the world, so i'm curious your thoughts on that. guest: i was there for his speech. it was very clear. the chinese foreign industry read out what the chinese said about the meeting. i wast very similar -- it was very similar. "repent and do penance, sinner," was their attitude. they are showing americans that they are willing to push. they are not intimidated. people say -- somebody said "we have to be the adults in the room." this is adult.

this is very dangerous stuff. we need to show measured resolve and firmness. the best thing i could say about secretary blinken's trip is it is designed for public consumption among allies who are worried, but they actually don't mean it. that would be my most charitable interpretation. i;m afraid that is not the -- host: what do you see as china's role in the ongoing war in ukraine? guest: i think -- ukraine? guest: china is in the cap seat, i'm afraid. i hope the ukrainian counteroffensive is successful in pushing the russians out, but it will be a long slog. even if they have more success, russians have to agree to end

the war. one of two outcomes is coming to pass. they are supporting the russians and all the ways that are meaningful. obviously, the russians would benefit but i, think in reality the main thing the russians get from china is propping up their economy. the russians have a large defense economy. i believe russian exports of oil to china just reached new peaks. one of two things is going to happen. the war goes on in europe, and depletes american resources, and we have already seen increasing acknowledgments that we are running out of stockpiles as the war goes on we will use more and more munitions. for the conflict is settled and europeans have to go through beijing. you saw this from our seal of

underlined, prime minister f -- from ursula von der leyen. i think the situation is quite bad. i think you see in other parts of the world, the chinese making a lot of moves. the saudi arabia deal was significant. i think this is showing a lot more chinese leverage and ability to cause complications for the united states, all around the world even as the chinese and their military are laser focused on taiwan and the first island chain. host: about 10 minutes left with elbrridge colby. you mentioned your tweet recently. questiona on your book.

what is the problem of denial? guest: we still live in denial after the post-soviet world. wake up, america. there are big challenges. the strategy of denial, i try to go back to the basics in the book, what is it as a country that we need our foreign policy to do ? following the collapse of the soviet union we got drunk on hubris. wi incredibly ambitiousth, to -- with incredibly ambitious goals for our foreign policy, we failed. what prosperity requires is denying another country domination in a key market area. years ago that was europe, and

europe remains incredibly important, that the primary overwriting focus needs to be on asia, because it is going to be above 50% of global gdp, and china is 10 times the size of russia. our goal needs to be denying china dominance of asia, which i think is clear is their goal. the third part is a military strategy of denial. to achieve the geopolitical goal of denying china hegemony over asia, i think we are seeing how little of a roll economic sanctions are playing in dissuading or pushing back the russians. what we care about is economics, but the means. that -- economics, but the means are military. that requires denial.

basically preventing them from occupying our allies. if we can do it for taiwan, then we can do it for japan, the philippines, and we will have a balance of power. from that balance of power, we can pursue my long-term goal, which is détente. my goal is not to change china or south china. china will be around -- or solve china. china will be around. they deserve credit for what they have achieved. they should not be able to dominate us and our allies in our coalition. that is ultimately our goal, what i call a decent piece. we have to be a hard-line hawk to get to a point where we can prudently be more dovish, and i don't think we are anywhere near there yet. plainfield host:, illinois --

host: plainfield, illinois, this is dennis. caller: don't cut me off. i really resent when people on c-span cut off people midsentence because they do not like what they are hearing. it is supposed to be a free forum. to the guest, i want you to explain this. the only reason we have problems with china today is because our business community, and i think many of them are treasonous people have, shifted jobs and technology to china. dovetailing with that lady previously mentioning about made in china, so much is made the re. it is not just of the low-end garbage. it is sophisticated technology. they will not allow someone to set up a company in china if we

do not share the technology, so what can we do with the republicans controlling one of the houses of congress, what can we do practically to reign in -- to rein in our own business community? guest: i share your concern and your policy objective, which is to bring much more of our economic productivity at home. there are complex issues about cost, but it is crazy at this point to act as if china is the factory floor of the world, and we are just consumers. that has been a terrible experiment on many levels. i was privileged to work with american company us on how we can move forward. i am not the expert on what

explicitly we can do. business people respond to incentivess. they influence the political process, but the business of america is business. if incentives are set up for the outcome we both share, which is a robust u.s. economy with more blue-collar jobs, than i think it will happen. there may be costs we will have to eat, but i think that is the cost of doing business. the piece i attributed to the american compass collection is the importance of having this military perimeter that i am talking about. we will only be able to re-sure and do the amount of decoupling that is -- re-shor and doe the amount of decoupling that is required if we have strong borders.

the laterans, the at -- it is important the military piece is the predicate for achieving the economic goals that people across the political spectrum share. host: this is efraim. caller: i am from a small territory that used to be -- china is invading africa. when they invade africa, it will give them resources. people do not have any choice but to run out of africa. when they go to america, they go to europe. isn't america seeing this? host: china and the continent of

africa. guest: the chinese are all over africa. the experience african countries are having is a taste of what is to come. it has not benefited most africans. it may have benefited some elites. the chinese are looking for natural resources, they're looking for markets. china is expanding its military presence. people say "they will be satisfied with taiwan." they have military facilities in cuba. the china were investigating a base in equatorial guinea. that shows what they have planned, which is a military and a degree of lyrical dominance, which will go around the -- political dominance, which will go around the world. host: this is green town, pennsylvania, anthony, republican. caller: good morning. i have about 20 questions for

you. i will only ask a couple. i am concerned with the world's fascination with artificial intelligence. i don't see the chinese listening to anybody about their parameters of artificial intelligence. it is one of the things that probably scares me the most about what they can do in the future to us. the second one is, is the joe biden administration relinquishing our energy sovereignty to china by insisting on electric technology, which china is the 90% producer of batteries in the world. host: energy, policy, and ai rules in china? guest: on ai i have not given it enough thought on itself. i do not dismiss outright some

of the more alarming warnings we are hearing. i don't know what the answer is. what i will say is that hopes for cooperation with china are not prudent. there is a famous comment by harold brown, who was the secretary of defense of defense during the jimmy carter administration. he said we built, then they built, we stopped, and they still built. that is something we need to be careful of in the case of artificial intelligence. look at their nuclear buildup. we have to look at it through a strategic lens, even as we take justified precautions on what is an amazing but dangerous technology. on i will say it is -- on energy, will say it is crazy i think for us not to be leveraging the natural resources we have at home. i think we should be drilling.

what is nuts is being so reliant on the chinese for the batteries. a lot of that is twice on our part and regulation. that is another piece. we really need to be prepared to sweep away a lot of these regulations. the most disturbing thing about what president biden said last night at the california fundraiser is he cast down on china being a serious challenge. it is similar to what he said during the campaign. that really worries me. if that is your attitude, i think of these people are really serious as a heart attack and they are competing at the forefront of a lot of areas of technology. an australian think tank released a worrying report that said they are ahead on a lot of areas of technology. we need to leverage every advantage that we have.

host: we will have to ended their. principal cofounder of the marathon initiative -- to end it there. principal cofounder of the marathon initiative. we always appreciate your time. more to talk about this morning. up next we will be joined by washington times reporter jeff mordock. we will talk about the hearing with jeff durham. later today as we approach the -- hearing with john durham. later today we will talk with kelly baden about the impacts of the dobbs decision. we will be right back. ♪

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making it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors, discussing history, biography, current events and culture from our signature program book tv, listen to the c-span bookshelf feed. on our website c-span.org/podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: we welcome washington times white house reporter jeff mordock beck to the show. he joins us ahead of the special hearing with john durham, which is set to begin in 45 minutes. your biggest take aways from the plea deal for hunter biden yesterday?

guest: it is a sweetheart deal. he will serve no jail time. you have to wonder if that was anybody else pleading guilty to 2 tax crimes and entering i diversion program by admitting to a gun crime that we would not do jail time. it is another example of how hunter biden seems to have all of this questionable activity surrounding him but there never seems to be any consequences. even going back to 1988 when he was picked up in stone harbor, new jersey on a drug charge that disappeared. we did not know about it until he disclosed it as part of a disclosure form to going the amtrak reform board. he had to fill out a whole thing on whether he had ever been charged with a crime. house republicans -- we have allegations of influence peddling.

there is all this stuff that seems to surround hunter biden, and he always seems to escape. host: one of the questions coming from this, it seems we got different answers yesterday, is this it for the justice department and hunter biden, or is there more to come? guest: it depends on who you ask. his attorneys say it forecloses all matters. the justice department says matters are still ongoing. what would be ongoing is the allegations that him and his father accepted a bribe from a ukrainian businessman. that allegation is still unproven. under attorney general bill barr, that was referred to the u.s. attorney in delaware, and they are looking into that. it was referred several years ago. it was referred as recently as 2017 and, it has only recently come to light. we know that was referred to the u.s. attorney, so likely that

would be what they are investigating, but the u.s. attorney will be mum on what they are actually investigating. host: we turn to this hearing with special counsel john durham now happening at 9:00 a.m. eastern. what are you watching for when he goes before the judiciary committee, especially in light of yesterday's meeting behind closed doors? guest: i am watching for two things. i'm watching for the republicans. the biggest questions surrounding the durham report is why he did not interview any top level fbi officials. he did not interview anthony mccabe. he did not interview anybody on the clinton campaign. he did not interview jake sullivan, which was president biden's national security advisor. he interviewed peter strong on one minor issue, but peter would

not do a larger interview. how can we be sure we have a complete accounting of what happened when the fbi opened up their trump rope, when you did not talk to any of the officials who were involved in either the fbi or the clinton campaign, particularly mccabe and comey, because they were number one and number two at the fbi during this period. they are. -- they are conspicuously missing from his report. the democrats see durham as a inspector closeua figure. he bumbled around in italy. i am curious to see what they will ask. they dismissed him from the beginning. the fact that his report was underwhelming is ammo to his claims that -- they are claims

that he did not accomplish much of anything. in 2019 attorney general barr and john durham went to italy and met with italian officials. there is a new york times report that says italian officials gave durham and bar credible evidence of suspicious financial activity by donald trump. that does not appear anywhere in the durham report. there is no evidence that john durham looked into that and i think the democrats will want to know whatever happened to that. after the democrats ask that question they will ask some standard questions about the fbi but they have never taken this probe seriously, and i don't expect a lot of serious questions from them. host: any comments made by the heads of the committee after they're closed the door with durham yesterday -- their

closed-door with durham yesterday? guest: if you are republican, you want the soundbite that will go on fox news. if you're a democrat, you want the soundbite that will owe on msnbc. -- will go on msnbc. host: this hearing begins 91 minutes from -- begins 19 minutes from now. you can watch it on c-span3 live and on the c-span video app. jeff is helping us preview it. we have plenty of calls for you. you are on with jeff mordock. caller: i am a psychiatrist. i i'm concerned that they were

so aggressive to the fbi with trump. i hope the fbi will look into by then's cognitive -- into biden's cognitive difficulties. clearly, he is in the moderate stages of alzheimer's, and people are laughing off all of these things he is doing, making it a joke, and the rest of the world must be seeing our president as a joke. when he says god save the queen -- host: do you think it is the stress of fbi probes that is contributing to what you are seeing? guest: that is a national security issue. host: -- caller: that is a national security issue. guest: the president has made some comments that cause alarm. i'm not sure it raises to the

level of a crime that the fbi needs to look into. host: this is joe, an independent. caller: hi, jeff if that is your real name. can you tell me how many people have b file for a gun permit and then be charged with a drug crime. guest: this administration has pushed for stricter gun control laws. they pushed for stricter gun control measures, and now you have the son of the president, whose administration has been advocating for this, violating one of those gun control laws, and he is getting a slap on the rest. he will enter a diversion program, and if he keeps his nose clean, it will disappear and it will never be recorded as

a guilty plea. host: coming back to the durham report, you have read the report. what were the ro questio -- were the questions left unanswered in your mind that may get answered today? guest: why weren't more people charged ? it is possible he did not cover any criminality, and that is extremely possible, but if you look at the molar probe, that resulted -- the muller probe, that resulted in 36 charges. we saw kevin kleinith plead guilty and get probation for doctoring evidence. we saw two cases durham brought against michael sussman for lying to the fbi. a jury acquitted both of them. compare that to the molar probe

-- muller probe. he could have filed a charge to secure cooperation, if he felt he needed that cooperation. an example, and mccabe was fired by the justice department. the justice department inspector general referred that to federal prosecutors for criminal prosecution. they dropped the case. that is something durham could have picked up and use that as leverage to secure mccabe's cooperation. comey is another example. he gave classified memos to a friend of his. his friend leaked it to the fbi. teh justice department -- the justice department declined to pursue it, but there is stuff

out there durham could have revived to secure cooperation. host: what he did do -- he made recommendations. what were they? guest: he made one recommendation. for a report that is so scathing he, did not recommend any wholesale changes. he recommended one change, which was to put an agent or lawyer in charge of politically sensitive investigations, so that we do not end up in this situation where you have people running amok, which is what it sounds like when you read the durham report. host: our next caller is on the line for democrats. caller: i guess they will lit hunter walk on the gum wrapper littering

charge. the by crime gang walks free -- biden crime gang walks free. in the sanity community, even if biden was in a persistent vegetative state, it would be better than trump. he is starting to make al capone look like a saint. host: that is not really a question therefore you. we will go to william in katie, texas. caller: i have a question for your guest. if that is the case with joe biden, then please tell me what thomas did, because isn't thomas doing the same thing joe biden did, and he should be in jail?

i will get your answer on tv. guest: are you talking about justice clarence thomas -- host: are you talking about justice clarence thomas? i think we lost them. there is another story today focusing on samuel alito. have you done much on ethics and the supreme court? guest: alex has been doing the bulk of the work on that. you can check out her work in the washington times. host: we are talking about this durham report, the hearing that is happening today. in 10 minutes or so it will be on c-span3. particular members you are interested in hearing from today. if you can catch someone after the hearing, who do you want to catch ? guest: jim jordan. he is the one that has been

adamant that john durham testify. he has been the most critical of how the fbi handled this, the trump probe. he will have the most piercing questions to john durham. what will be interesting to me is how jim jordan treats him. at some level there has to be disappointment. jim jordan along with several trump acolytes had said this would uncover the crime of the century. it was very far from that. it also provided plenty of evidence for them to back up their claim that the fbi was so zealous in going after trump, that they abandoned their principles. host: you think john durham may get gentler questions from democrats than republicans today? guest: daniel webster put out a

statement moments after the durham report was out, decrying the fact that no one is going to jail in this investigation -- to jail in this investigation. the democrats see this as an academic exercise. host: certainly not what people would have thought a hearing like this would be going a year ago. democrats, what should they look for? guest: what i brought up earlier, i think democrats look for who asks the question about trump and italy. that will be an interesting question. there has been a lot of reporting about that, but it is unclear why durham and barr did not pursue it. it is possible bar and durham lookr to the other way. there are a lot of possibilities

here. anything we can do to get more clarity on that will be very important. host: where does john durham go after this? guest: that is a great question. he is done being special counsel. i guess he will ride off into the sunset. he is no longer the u.s. attorney in connecticut. he is not a justice department employee. whatever he wants to do, i guess. host: do you think this is his last time on capitol hill? guest: i could see the senate judiciary committee calling him. it depends on what we get out of today. if there is anything that the judiciary committee wants to hear -- they are controlled by democrats, and i highly doubt that. he has already testified before the intelligence committee. he has testified before the judiciary committee. the oversight committee might

call on him. john comer loves anything he can use to poke a stick at the fbi. host: time for a couple more calls with jeff mordock. he has to leave at 9:00 to cover this hearing, we have been talking about. (202) 748-8000 for republicans. (202) 748-8001 for democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. our next caller is from woodbridge, virginia. caller: we have to consider this from the perspective of the two-tier justice system we have. we have a hobbyist election tampering from particular individuals. i don't think it was a,

coordinated effort but they knew their investigation would have political consequences. that is why they were leaking information to the media. the issue we are facing now is the american people are watching all this, and they are only growing two distrust of their own government more and more every day because of things like the so of the president walking free while all of their children are inn prison or jail for even lesser crimes. the concern i have is when you add all of the unconstitutional activity together with the election meddling i members in 00 --meddling by members in government, what you are seeing happens right before your eyes. it is the dismantling of the republic. host: to his point about

election -- guest: to his point about election interference, john durham addresses that in his report. he says bad judgment does not equal a crime. because people have made mistakes here does not mean there is anything to prosecute. that is his defense. we we'll see what republicans have to say about that when he testifies before them in 10 minutes. host: "durham was not a serious investigation. the ig report came up with more." guest: the ig report from michael horowitz looked into bias and he looked into what happened, if there was any wrongdoing by the fbi when they opened up the investigation into connections between trump and russia. michael horowitz's report, a lot of wide john durham did is cribbed off of michael horowitz's report.

i had mentioned kevin kleinsmith, a low-level fbi lawyer who pled guilty to doctoring evidence in the trump russia probe. we only know that because of michael horowitz. that case was brought to court by john durham. that case was handed to him on a silver platter by michael horowitz. that was john durham's most successful case. the cases that john durham came up with on his own did not come go anywhere. they did up with an acquittal. if you look at what was in the durham report, a lot of it was what we saw in the ig report. host: this is paula out of minnesota, independent, good morning. caller: good morning.

my question is why is it acceptable for the doj to investigate hunter biden, a private citizen not holding any spot within the administration, yet comer said it was politically unsustainable to investigate jared kushner. guest: in the hunter biden case, there has been an ongoing investigation that dates back to 2018. given that he has agreed to a plea deal, he is essentially

admitting that there were crimes committed. as far as we know there is no justice department investigation into jared kushner. host: jeff, independent. caller: i read the durham report. it seemed to say that with an unbiased press, this would not have happened. your thoughts on the biased press? guest: i will not criticize my colleagues in the press. what i will say is it is interesting how on multiple levels this came up and the zealousness in which these allegations were pursued. evidence to the contrary was often ignored or overlooked by investigators, and investigators are leaking all the time to the press. the press are going with

whatever investigators are leaking to them. they are doing due diligence. host: jeff mordock white house reporter with the washington times. you can watch the hearing right out in the hallway on c-span3. next we will turn to the topic of abortion access in this country in the year since the overturning of roe v. wade. we will be joined by kelly baden of the guttmacher institute. stick around for that conversation after the break. ♪

>> live thursday, president joe biden and first lady jill biden welcome india's prime minister narendra modi for an official state visit to washington. during dry modi will address a joint session of congress -- prime minister narendra modi will address a joint session of congress before joining the president for a dinner. ♪ >> nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to influential interviewers on the book mess plus -- book notes plus feature captivating conversations with authors

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host: a conversation of what happens in the states the last 12 months when it comes to abortion access we are joined by kelly baden. remind us of what your mission is. guest: it is a research policy organization working to have sexual health and rights that is everything with estimating the global access to abortion, contraception in the u.s., and matching that with policymakers. host: if you want to check it out on the homepage, there is a report with the abortion policy one year post roe v. wade. this is the lead paragraph. one year after the united states supreme court decision to overtone -- overturn roe v. wade, the status in states is

complex. it has created a also add confusion. it offers great spots to chart a pathway for more protection of abortion. what would you describe as abysmal? guest: the 19 million women that live in a state that have banned abortion or restricted it with an early abortion: such as georgia. we have spent the last 50 years trying to overturn roe v. wade. and in the meantime restricting abortion in whatever way at the state level. several were trigger bans going into effect as soon as the supreme court allowed them to do so. nine states had abortion an to go in to effect almost right

after. and abortion is unavailable due to complexity and chaos and a series of other abortion restrictions and bans passed by states this year. host: on good marker.org -- good marker -- guttmacher institute's .org tell us what is happening in those states. guest: they may have an exception for pregnancy with sexual assault that threatens a woman's health or life. we know those exceptions are very difficult to access and process. they exist mostly in name only. when you look at the map and what you know about state legislature, there is tight restriction in the southeast

region of a country that there is no abortion access. someone in louisiana for example who needs an abortion has to figure out how to navigate across multiple state lines to get an abortion in a state where it is still allowed in a clinic guttmacher. -- in a clinic. and it allows you to have time off work, money, and other things to have eagle abortion care. -- legal abortion care. host: and the orange states here georgia, nebraska, arizona -- why are they varying? guest: they have banned abortion but they did not have early -- it has to be an early abortion. georgia as i mentioned has an early ban on abortion at

pregnancy at six weeks. that means many people may not even know they are pregnant by then. by the time they get to appointments, get the money, time off work, they may not be able to access and abortion in that state. nebraska made a lot of news this year by trying to enact an abortion ban and they did have one on 12 weeks. looking at how that story tells us the ban on abortion and gender care are two sides of the same cordon. nebraska illustrates that well. host: and that brings up the point of the complex legal implications. what is an example? guest: the 14 state where we say abortion is not legally banned but it is complicated enough that they do not provide

abortion care there. abortion is unavailable. for all intensive positions it is similar to operating under a climate of an abortion plan. host: what is a preemption law? guest: it is when a state tells cities or localities in the state but they can and cannot do. it states that the state has precedence over the city or county to do something. where we see that as it relates to abortion is with the series of county commission and city council taking action. if they are a blue state -- and they try to move to some health care of protection of abortion access and the state moved to block that. host: oregon is one of them as protective of abortion access. guest: it has a lot of terms in good policy use. it was an early adopter of the equity act that recognized vet

-- recognize the legality of importance for abortion and insurance coverage. they have been able to enact a lot of laws against it. it is not a legality, but expanding access. there are many other states that have done more durable things that we have talked about. it has set up a series of recommendations for other states. host: we talk about them through the next half hour at the washington journal. kelly baden is our guest here. if you want to: we have the numbers, democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. she is here until 9:00 a.m.. this is john, mcgrath. in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning my question

pertains to the american medical association. how some of the states are treating doctors with jail or prison time if they perform an abortion is not totally necessary. a lot of doctors are changing from gun ecology -- -- gynecology because they are worried it could be illegal -- they could do something illegal. i think the american medical association should take care of doctors and file lawsuits against the states that are threatening doctors with jail or prison time. a lot of the doctors are afraid to perform dirt procedures. host: i got your point let me let you jump in. i think it tells us -- guest: i think it tells us that abortion ban is not just impacting the people that need abortion care

but it has a ripple effect on anybody who has a wanted see that they are hoping to continue safely. we see a lot of examples of doctors being unable to feel like they can provide the care that pregnancy is needed when they face an emergency because of the fear of criminal invasion under abortion ban in their state. there are a lot of stories in the news out there of women who have wanted pregnancies and they face a health emergency and they cannot get health care in their local state and they are turned to another state. while abortion is a human right issue, i think also the climate has -- anybody who has become pregnant or is pregnant or you are somebody who love someone who is pregnant it touches everyone. host: nikki, independent. you are on. caller: good morning.

i would like to ask a question maybe two questions how would you compare the way afghanistan treats women as opposed to how republicans treat women in the united states, but as far as women's rights. the second thing, since i am a man, i do not believe that i should have a right to tell a woman what she could do with her own body. some woman is going to tell me what i can do with my body, so i think it is your inherent right. this is listed under the 10th amendment the rights of individuals in this nation women have the right to control their own bodies guest: i think what

the dobbs decision has led to is women's -- it has been towards the liberalization of abortion law. -- there is an amazing momentum of activist working with restrictive abortion laws throughout latin america. the u.s. is going backwards and i think that is not a place that has served us well and it does not serve any of the people in the country well who need access to health care. host: in iowa, this is lonnie. republican. good morning. caller: good morning my first thought is this. what is the difference between a mother murdering a baby who is not born and who is born.

obviously we outlawed one and they are both incredibly needy and dependent. a second thought is human beings have a distinct dna. an unborn baby from conception is undeniably human, not animal, mineral, not vegetable but it has dna distinct from the mother. i cannot do what i want with my body when it harms someone else. i cannot put my right foot on the accelerator and follow by my body my choice. i cannot use my right hand to take a gun and murder somebody that would be my body my choice. host: ok. guest: i think fortunately most americans recognize the situation of nuance ascend the situation you just described. it is good to know since abortion has existed since the beginning of time. people try to understand how to

end a pregnancy when they need to. i also think that the question of when life begins it is a religious philosophy question. people for generations and centuries have tried to address -- answer it for themselves. and that is what i think they should do answer it for themselves something that matches their own values and not have it answered by elected officials for them. host: iowa a state that is a restricted state. i want to talk about why you like to -- listed it that way. it has an abortion ban after two weeks, right? guest: yes we consider any ban on abortion on a pregnancy to be a measure of some kind. it depends, the variance of that ranges, but when there are additional restrictions on abortion in the state, it is

already complicated and difficult to navigate through the obstacle of laws and policies to be able to get an abortion in that state. host: el paso texas, good morning. democrats. caller: good morning. it is a pleasure to talk with you. i am a supporter of guttmacher. i wanted to mention what -- back when i had my abortions it was late 80's and early 90's. it was before there was a law that said protesters had to stay across the street or a certain number of feet away from the clinic. what happened is, they would just inform you in the parking lot. we had to have what they are called, clinic escorts. after my first abortion, i became a clinic escort, what you do is you take the patient, you cover her head with a heavy coat

or a blanket, something and you hold tight onto her and you just have to muscle your way through the protesters and they would get inches away from your face and scream at you they would spit on you. they were not allowed to actually physically assault you, or block you, but they would try to trip you. step on your shoelaces if you had shoelaces. it was a nightmare to get from your car to the front door. host: what year was this when you're experiencing this? caller: as a volunteer it was in the early 90's. have you like they are doing the exact same thing now but only

through judicial means and legislative measures. it feels like exactly the same thing. i encourage everybody to read gabriel glares book ejaculate responsibly. it is a great read. if you want it is on book tv also. on c-span.org. it is a great -- a whole new way to think about abortion as a subtitle. i encourage everybody to read this book. it is a great read. that is what i have to say. thank you for everything you do. host: thank you for mentioning book tv on our channel. guest: and thank you for sharing your own story. i think you raise such a good point about how the policy and

legal climate has other impacts when accessing abortion. the idea that people can stand outside of a clinic and block somebody from accessing reproductive health care and getting to their appointment is outrageous. in the early 90's, it was egregious and that we had something signed called the safe act to help protect the freedom of access to freedom -- two clinic entrances and i have tried to figure that out when it comes to the four corners of wet protesters can do outside of the clinic. host: independent good morning. caller: good morning. yes ma'am, i have watched for legislation since last year, it's been like 500 pieces of legislation against women

brought by men. in this case, they have put the cart in front of a horse for over 50 years. with that, the conversation has been the cart. we need to be talking about the horse that brought all this mess up. it is men who calls abortion. ask yourself who calls it it takes me to cause an abortion. there has only been one sliver of anything against men in all of a 500 pieces of yet -- of legislation. i'm with y'all. i stand for it every day. when i asked a conservative who causes an abortion? it ain't but one word and a look at me like they got in the headlights of an oncoming truck. host: ok. guest: i think if we recognize

abortion as an issue of fundamental bodily autonomy that broadens the lense and lets us see it as a bigger picture issue relevant to anybody, men, women, non-by an airy folks, trans folks -- non-binary folks. trans folks. and i think your point about men being legislators is a good one. there is 30% of legislators that are women. it can allow us to reach a point later where our representatives are more representative of the will of the people. host: in 2023, part of your report that you put out on the state of abortion access in the country nearly 700 abortions were issued so far this year.

about half of which were banned access and half restricted access. the band access had 30 measures enacted in the state. including the shield law. what is that? guest: the shield law is a measure that the state takes to attempt to protect the abortion provider in that state from the possible negative effects of law and abortion bans in other states. we know already even before the dobbs decision, people often would cross state lines to get abortion care. mississippi for example only had one abortion clinic for years before it was overturned. access to abortion care is not anything new, but it is much expanded because there are so many state where you cannot get an abortion. looking at a place like colorado, for example, we see

and in box of patients from texas. i think colorado you look around and say, ok, we have enshrined abortion legality in our state and there is more we can do because legality is not enough. they said that we will make sure that the abortion provider in our state and patients that traveled in from here will not be open to prosecution investigation or anything like that from other states that have downed -- banned abortion. there are strong signaling effects that those states really want to welcome patients who need care. and there is a strong model for considering that protecting the rights of abortion where their own state is not enough. host: kentucky. lisa in louisville, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning thank you for c-span. i am a reasonable democrat i do

not believe in nine-month abortions unless it is for the life of the mother or other problems. here in kentucky, 2022 we put it on the ballot and we won. we had the majority and it was supposed to be a constitutional right to have an abortion. our community general who which is general -- daniel kevin running for governor will put a lawsuit up and it is going to can suck -- kentucky's date supreme -- kentucky state supreme court. it is rampant in the part of the state so you know how they will rule. but when we take it to the supreme court, i am pretty much going to say there going to say that is the right of the state. do we have any other recourse of any kind since the will of the people has been spoken and we want to keep it as a legal protection here. what else could we do? guest: thank you. i believe the kentucky ballot

measure and kansas ballot measure and other states it really does show that when abortion right are on the ballot directly, the people generally support them. we have seen poll after poll of last year that the people do not support the overturning of roe v. wade. in kentucky, what happens next, i cannot speculate you would have to ask a lawyer. it is important to continue organizing in your community. do not think about abortion rights just being an issue during an election season. abortion is on the ballot all the time at every level of government. we talked about what county commissions can do and members of congress are important. important people to work with and advocate for abortion rights with regardless of whether or not you know they currently agree with you. having your voice heard is incredibly important to the movement we are trying to build. notches two regain what roe v.

wade had for us but to move ahead of that with abortion right. host: public-policy vice president talking about the landscape of abortion access since the dobbs decision. this is an in florence, alabama. independent. good morning. caller: good morning i had to call when i heard the lady in the 80's who had multiple abortions. i feel -- sexually active in the 80's. i am amazed at the amount of an educated women who no longer, in this 21st-century know-how to not get pregnant, have not learned their own bodies. i raise four children, two of my daughters sexually active. neither one of them wanted pregnancies because i taught them how to be responsible for their own action.

this is my issue, i am not talking about law or whatever i'm talking about self responsibility. and the 21st century we have these scams and you can see that -- it is not a blob or something to not think about. i also became pregnant with my fourth child and found out i had leukemia. and if they wanted me to have an abortion because i would not because my question to myself was is my life more important than this child? the answer i could come up with is no, it is not. i have a responsibility. i kept my baby full-term, -- [indiscernible] i still have the baby she is now 23 years old. she is sexually active and she knows how to not get pregnant. guest: thank you for sharing your story.

what i took away from that it with one of the things is that you had the ability to make a decision that was best for you. i think that is where many of us come down. that is a process and right we should all have regardless of what our state legislators or members of congress feel at any given time. we talk about how we deal with pregnancies is incredibly important. the same people that ban abortion and have band abortion seek to limit or -- access to contraception. we are working to advance not just abortion rights but access to contraception and comprehensive sexuality education so that folks know how to handle their bodies. i think -- the question of responsibility is an important one, but i cannot think of anything more responsible than someone looking at their situation and saying, you know

what? i need to not continue this pregnancy. that is the height of our responsibility area host: dorthea mansfield, ohio. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i am listening to all of these people, their opinions, i am 82 years old. you know, this little town of mine, back in the 50's there are men and women who are sent to prison because of the back alley abortions. i know one girl, i personally would never have an abortion but the problem is, but with the supreme court change that when i know of more than one girl who had an abortion? host: we got your question. guest: yeah, thank you.

i think a notable point you referenced is that abortion often happens regardless of legality. even in countries where abortion is illegal it still exists. the question is how can we make sure that we have public access to safe means of managing our own abortion. today in 2023 it is vastly different than pre-roe. we have medication abortion that focuses on self managing. there are safe ways to do that and we should not have to operate in a climate of fear or secrecy, we should have abortion access and rights for everything in the u.s.. host: lydia, waterford new york. you are on. good morning. caller: some of the things i was thinking of have already sort of been brought up.

i do not understand why there is not more of a push on prevention of unwanted pregnancies. -- this is almost 50 years ago and i never had another on land pregnancy -- unplanned pregnancy. i do not understand the prepregnancy abortion. there's all sort of birth control and it is treated as a no big a deal kind of thing but yet now we know so much more about fetal soma. you can see there's been all

kinds of photos taken. it is so much more known now. science does say by the way that life begins at conception. i understand when somebody does something early on i may not under -- agree with it that i understand it. but there seems like there should be a reasonable limit just based on being humane. you know at a certain point in time it seems barbaric to me. i am not sure exactly what point in time that is, but it just, it seems pretty barbaric some of these aborting babies that could live. the other thing i do not understand is if a baby happens to be born alive, why it is not kept alive. why is no help given to it? host: let me take up the questions you asked. guest: there's a lot of content

there. let me start on pregnancy prevention. any of us agree that access to contraception is important for a variety of reasons. that is why the care act 10 or so years ago was a game changer because it did include no co-pay contraceptive coverage. opening up the idea that contraception is more affordable for people because there is no co-pay with their insurance. those of the policies we should be working for. beyond that, with some of the other questions, this is a situation where some of the escalated rhetoric has really shown up. i encourage you and listeners to learn more from valid news sources about what abortion care actually looks like. why people need abortions. the majority of abortions are done earlier in pregnancy, yes, it is an abortion -- it is

making it harder to people -- for people to access early abortion care. there's a lot to unpack with that and it comes down to abortion bans being bad for women's health and futures. and abortion rights being an issue of bodily autonomy which is something we could all agree on. host: in georgia, line for democrat. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you ms. baden for your advocacy and the advocacy of the guttmacher institute. i want to confirm what two men said one of the colors from georgia talking about the responsibility of men and the fact that, to me, this comes to gender discrimination, even though i know you want to frame this in a larger context, but if men are actually saying to us that they understand it is a gender issue, i think that is

something we could promote. the other thing there was a female caller who wanted to equate the use of her arm or her hand with a handgun wielding a handgun to murder someone with what what a woman does with their body, but as far as i know, if you wield a handgun and kill somebody it doesn't matter whether you're male or female. but this applies only to 16, one body part. -- one 6, 1 body part. clearly discrimination. i was part of the underground network back in the 70's in north carolina that women had to band together to find a lab, find a pregnancy test, and try to raise money to get to new york. that was the only place you could get an abortion during that time before roe v. wade. and i tell you i actually click -- cried on the days they reversed it .*unfiltered view of

-- reversed it. -- reversed it. guest: i would point to the example where there are volunteers and almost every state does help connect the people in the state to the resources they need to get an abortion care. now, generally they are trying to help get to where state abortion is legal. it is incredibly important as a network and one example on top of the efforts we talked about earlier about how people can be part of a movement to restore and rebuild our right to abortion even beyond what roe v. wade gave us and beyond outside of the ballot box. host: kevin is a vice president of public policy. -- kelly is vice president at a -- of public policy at guttmacher

institute. in the last few minutes of washington journal today we have a open forum where we let you discuss any public policy or a little cool issue you want to talk about. the foreign -- phone numbers are here and they numbers are on your screen. we will give you -- we will get to your calls when we come back. ♪ announcer: c-spanshop.org is where you can find books, home to core, accessories everything. there is something for every c-span fan. and it supports our nonprofit operation. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. ♪ announcer: since 1979, in

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tell your smart speaker play c-span radio. powered by cable. announcer: c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington. live and on-demand. keep up with the day's biggest events, and proceedings from the congress, campaigns, and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episode of washington journal and by -- find the scheduling information for c-span tv network and c-span radio is a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span is available now on the apple store and google play. download it today. c-span now your front row seat to washington. anytime. anywhere. announcer: washington journal continues. host: here is where we are this morning. capitol hill the house will come

in at 10 a.m. eastern. the senate will come in at 10 a.m. as well. happening on capitol hill former counsel john durham is testifying before the house judiciary committee about the fbi efforts to investigate the 2016 from presidential campaign origin of the investigation. if you want to watch that that is happening live on c-span three on c-span.org. or on the c-span app. or you can stay with us the next 20 minutes as we are open form. any policy issue you want to talk about, this is where we let you lead the discussion. we start on our line for republicans. david, st. paul minnesota, good morning your open -- you are up first in open forum. caller: hello, this question is -- i could not get in before your guest, kelly baden, left the studio, but i've got a question for her and i'm going to preface it.

i'm very pro-life and i also believe in vaccine for disease prevention, but one thing i have been puzzled with -- for same people that are for abortion and to my body by choice are also in response promoting vaccines for people. some states are even mandating vaccines. isn't that my body my choice? i should have a choice to insert a vaccine into my body? so in essence, i think the same party that my body my choice for one thing, they were not believing it for vaccines. i've never gotten a clear answer from those people of why -- on one side they are against

somebody telling me what to do with my body, but on the other side during covid today wanted -- they want to divorce me to get a vaccine. host: good point. that is david in morbi town ohio. for democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. number one i can answer that one middle jet -- one gentleman's question. when you have an abortion, you are getting rid of whatever is in your body. what it comes to the shots, you are protecting other people that could die and i mean multiple because i have known people that have done that. but i was calling about is when it comes to donald trump, people should read the new york times about january 6, and they should watch on youtube what is document 19.

then you can put everything in perspective. thank you, you have a good day. host: sugar land texas, good morning. caller: good morning's, sir. the last time i tote -- spoke to you ask you about the political -- politico journalist that you said you never heard of it. i think it is bias. you had three books on trump, -- the third one i believe -- i cannot think of the name but it was bob -- but the book i am asking you to bring up is about the documents ok. it goes on to talk about his brother and for the people listening, google biden inc. when you google it read the story of by bob schreck endured

the political journalists. number two, a text maybe five or six times on different days and you'll put bidens speech on. he said that he reduced the deficit. and i keep on texting saying that is propaganda and washington post gave him bottomless pinocchio's. so if you keep on telling people this message and the post saying it is not true, why do we keep on showing that? thank you sir. host: stephen in illinois. republican good morning. caller: good morning i would like to say something about hunter biden. it is a sad day in america where we let a guy escape with misdemeanors on a major felony. anybody else would have been thrown in jail. and washington journal is just right behind him helping him. i think we need to impeach our

president and we need to remove him. he needs to leave. thank you. host: christopher in arbor, michigan. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, john. i would like to thank brian lamb and misses swain and all of the people at c-span. the hosts, call takers, you guys do such a great job. thank you. i was calling -- host: thank you i appreciate that. i was waiting for you to continue with the topic he wanted to talk about. go ahead. caller: yes, thank you, john. i was calling about the two-tiered justice system. it is difficult for me to hear about a two-tiered justice system amongst republicans and democrats, what have you. when i think about the history of his country, slavery, jim

crow, we are just celebrating, just brought into law juneteenth. we just brought that into law today. and to hear those -- that come from white america talk about a two-tiered justice system? i cannot imagine where and how they even come up with this kind of language. you know, you talk about racism, you know, then the other part wants to say reverse racism. it just comes up with a bunch of -- gobbledygook if you will to just muck the system up. a two-tiered justice system? black america has always, since

stepping foot in this country, have had to deal with a two-tiered justice system and we are still dealing with a two-tiered justice system. what happened is mr. biden, the son, is not the concern of america. america needs to be more concerned with how it has benefited from this two-tiered system. slavery, drip -- jim crowe laws, adult mean those in position giving back what they gain from that two-tiered justice system. all the position, all the finance, all the affluence, but i could go on and on. but john, i would like to thank you for listening and taking my call. host: christopher in ann arbor, michigan. just about 15 minutes left before the house comes in

session. with the judiciary hearing taking place right now in capitol hill. the republican congressman from south carolina will be questioning the special counsel. here is a little bit of that back and forth. we will listen in. >> intelligence officials? >> yes. >> so then, was there attic but -- adequate -- opening for a full investigation? >> july 31, based on my view it was not a legitimate case. as an open full investigation. an assessment is something that has to be looked at, and other information such as interviewing the people who divided -- provided the -- information checking their own databases and the databases of other intelligence agencies and the standard kind of things you would do in an investigation like this. >> i think it is safe to conclude based on that report

and anyone who read it that they did not have the adequate basis that you talked about to launch an investigation. host: that is a conversation we are having right now in the house judiciary committee. questioning of former special counsel john durham. you can see it live on c-span3 and on c-span.org and the c-span now f3 app. we continue -- c-span now free app. we continue with your calls. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to address the roe v. wade issue. i would refer an individual to plano during that particular case. the name was more -- norma corbin and the individuals if they really research the fact of the case what they will find out is that ms. norma also was a case where she alleged that she was raped by a african-american.

later she recant that story, nevertheless, the majority in that case went forward with the case knowing that norma lied about the whole issue in order to reach the verdict in roe v. wade. so roe v. wade was a case that was based on facts that were not correct. hence, we are in the situation we are in today. thank you. host: that is andrew out of new york. in pr with their story the forgotten story of jane roe fought for and then against abortion rights. that story and some of the history of the case. the picture there in april 26, 1989 photo showing norma on the left in that picture.

this is rory in california line for republicans good morning. caller: good morning. i believe for every time somebody says something about roe, run question -- one question they should say something about biden, his money, and the possibility of confiscating that money as an enterprise. the other thing that comes to mind right now is all of the aliens that come in, i am starting to see a lot of them are starting to get shot in texas, arizona, they are starting to steal because the government cannot provide for them. i am hearing stories from relatives in texas, they are simply choosing to break in. all of a sudden you have a lot of aliens with nobody taking care of them. they will go for food and they will get killed. host: that is rory, this is diane in new jersey. democrat good morning. caller: good morning john, thank you for taking my call.

you had a woman who called in the other day, a black woman who said that juneteenth was a holiday for black people. and white people should not be part of the celebration. i would ask her to consider all of the white people who supported the end of slavery when they fought and died in the civil war. there were thousands, there were tens of thousands of white people who supported the end of slavery. we might have a small part to play in the end of slavery and while i understand i am almost 80 years old, i have seen the effect of racism my whole life. and have fought against it personally. i would hope that she would have a little impassioned -- passion in her heart for the white people that supported her and her people and died for that. thank you.

host: up next rio rancho, new mexico. independent. caller: yes, thank you for the call. i would like to talk about the plea deals. i'm referring to those -- spiro agnew, our vice president in the administration. he was indicted for his corruption i believe when he was in government and it is a situation with a plea deal where he was only fined $10,000 and, no jail time, and also a situation where they made sure he was going to run for elected office and be part of the department of justice said that particular time. kind of knew about what was going on with warranty and that perhaps nixon was involved. therefore, the justice followed through with the plea deal on spiro agnew to make sure he did not become president of the united states. and i also just mentioned about the abortion situation.

there is a great quote by george washington about -- as far as the majority -- minority taking over the majority. the majority of the people as i understand it here in the united are for pro-choice. we have our supreme court go against vat. george washington pointed out the problems that i am having in the minority dictating over the majority. he indicated that those are nothing but anarchy and confusion to be expected thereafter. and that is what we have right now on the blue states. and actually in the red states. people are up in arms about the situation. the majority got taken over by the minority on the particular issue. host: that is tom in new mexico. a couple minutes before the white house comes in -- the

house comes in session. and they will gavel in in a few minutes. and before that we talk about -- website that has done several stories with nondisclosures of supreme court justices. the headline samuel alito took a fishing vacation and later had cases before the court in the years later with the undisclosed trip to alaska. using his hedge fund repeatedly having business ahead of the supreme court and alito has never recused himself. a picture of him there with paul singer on a fishing trip from some 15 years ago. this story did publish today and it was also published today as an op ed in wall street journal from samuel alito. the justice was somewhat of a rebuttal of the story.

the wall street journal op ed came out last night and in today's paper. the note on the story, josh elliott -- pro public -- is a independent newsroom that has journalism in full force. they emailed him friday with a series of questions asking him to respond by noon tuesday. they said that they wanted to have accurate reporting in the public interest and they wanted to hear his response in the form of a op-ed. the headline of the op-ed called pro publica misleads its readers. you can check it out today in the wall street journal. back to your calls this is jackie a miami democrat good morning. caller: good morning, john. this is grandma jackie and i would just like to say to the white young lady that called in and let her know that we, as black people, we do recognize

our sisters and brothers that are white that were -- as a matter of fact, we just had an event here in coconut grove and over half of the participants were our white sisters and brothers. host: with the event, was it a juneteenth you were talking about? caller: yes, i want them to know we love our white brothers and sisters and we are all one in christ. and this is the one thing that i would like to -- food for thought for the american people when it comes to the abortion issue. as you know, spiritually when jesus, the son of god walked this planet and he offered us to come to him and do his way, he gave us a choice. he said choose. my way. and if you did not choose his way, he did not do anything to you he just went on and let you

suffer the consequences of your choices. and so i am speaking now to true believers, if you really believe that god has all power and he is just, then you will know that when you have an abortion, anything god sets forth, it is coming. it may not come in that woman, who aborted it, but if he can plant a seed and have his son walk on this earth, he can transfer that to another human being and let that seed still come. that is a god who's has -- who has all powers. he is just because he would not be just if there was any other way. that is why he can forgive us for anything we do because he can fix anything we do. so we need to get off and out of people's personal business and choices and get into the things that are affecting you and your

life personally. one less thing i would like to say -- host: i've got a few more colors and a little bit of time. i'm going to go to anna in texas a democrat good morning area go ahead. caller: good morning, john. for the gentleman who called and said that people were just breaking into homes that -- mexican people or wherever they are coming from our breaking into homes. that is the biggest lie on the face of the earth. number one, the people who are coming here, they are working on our highways, bridges, we do not see any of our black brothers and white brothers on the highway. they are not out there in 100 degree weather. they are not out here in the rain and the storm. the gentleman who called was lying. how do you look into texas and see what is going on?

these are people who are helping put up the solar panels, the turbines, we have and people don't realize, we have a lot of green energy here. these are the people who are working, class, neighborhoods that are kind of depleted and -- these are people who come in and build houses. we build them. they work hard. i get so sick and tired of people who do not live in texas talk about what is going on at the border. the border is not the problem. i'm 74 years old, when they talk about the border -- we have been talking about it ever since i was a child and we have spent trillions and billions of dollars. plus, what they do not understand is mexico was under the same for other -- for 70 years. all the tunnels that are built under there, you try to put