bidens immigration policy? republicans, call us at (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

independents, (202) 748-8002. or, send text message at (202) 748-8003. we want to get to your calls. i want to show a little video. this video is an oral argument from this case. united states from -- united states versus texas. justice brett kavanaugh and solicitor general elizabeth discussed an idea of standing. here is a portion of the discussion. [video clip] >> on standing, if a new administration comes in and says you are not going to enforce environmentalaws and we are not going to enforce labor laws, preposion is no states, no business and no organization would have standing to challenge this? is that correct? >> that is correct under this ecedent but framers intended

political checks. if an administration did something extreme and said they would notnforce the law at all, then they would be held accountable. >> are the tools? you mentioned earlier it would extraordinary. but congress in 1996 and today, thought the immigration problem in the u.s. was extraordinary. the lack of enforcement to this degree that congress as o 1996 110. this is why they topped laws a constrain discretion. courts are not going to be able to enforce this congressional manage. what are the exa tools congress has to make sure the laws are not enforced in the united states? >> congress has the power of the purse which can make an executives life: respect to

decisions that had to appropriate -- an executive's life difficult with respect to decisions that had to appropriate laws. this identified the fact congress was not powerless to act. host: this was some of the arguments from the supreme court on this issue of standing. i want to show a couple more headlines on the supreme court ruling from friday. this is this morning's washington post under the headlines "biden's border authority affirmed." it says the supreme court boosted bidens authority to enforce the administration's immigration policies on those who are a state or recently entered the country. states generally lack the authority to challenge the

administrations authority on holes of arrest -- administration's authority on holding arrest. i want to read from this second paragraph that says the dispute was part of a larger battle between mr. biden who has struggled to balance control of the southern border with humane treatment of immigrants. in republican-led states, which have repeatedly sought to quash the administration agenda by contesting policy after policy in the court. and allowing the administration leeway in deciding who to arrest, the supreme court acknowledged the difficulty of the problem and the leading role the executive branch was -- must play in solving it. what are your views on bidens immigration enforcement policies ? republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

independents, (202) 748-8002. our first caller is from maine. chris is on the democratic line. what are your thoughts? caller: we are going to hear nonstop from the republican line that there is no border control whatsoever and immigrants completely come across freely but at the same time, republicans like to say how much they love the border patrol people which is weird. i will read from fox news which says the biden administration had a 70% drop in 2024 predictions. do not trust me, trust fox. joe biden implemented a program in which people have to applied using an app from their country of origin. if they do not, they are sent back. so crossings have massively dropped. i would love for you to ask every republican who says there are no border controls and they

are coming across frequently, why are crossings lower by 70% and lower than they were under donald trump? host: jason is calling from st. louis on the republican line. caller: hello, how are you doing? i have an answer for him. one, we are giving them cell phones when they get over here so how are they supposed apply on an app when they don't have a phone? then you say it is down 70%? speak -- that is because you keep playing with the numbers. it has been proven over and over. host: pat in new jersey, also republican line. caller: hello. how are you doing? i wanted to say, as far as the border, it is open. we need to get back to policies

that always worked. there are supposed to be illegal immigration, not illegal immigration. as far as joe biden, we need to remember that he needs to be impeached with high crimes and misdemeanors. that is what you really should focus on, instead of donald trump all the time. we should be focused on the biden administration. he needs to be impeached. he is the worst president. he is a disgrace. thank you very much. host: let's take another call. barney in florida. democratic line. caller: why don't we talk about the border? all i hear is about impeaching joe biden. they are not worried about the border? they are just trying to protect

donald trump. if they are worried about the border -- people on fox news are not talking about the border. what is it? host: we had callers referencing the number of border crossings since the biden administration implemented new rules after the explanation -- eloration of title 42. here is an article in roll call. headline, "decrease in border crossings has not slowed republican criticism." i will scroll to some numbers. it says border agents encountered 70% fewer crossings in the three weeks following the end of title 42, compared to the weeks before the policy expired, according to the dhs. in may, border agents reported 15% fewer migrants than in the

same month a year earlier, with most encounters occurring before the end of the title 42 policy, according to data released by customs and border protection. there were also 25% fewer encounters with migrants between ports of entry which pose more than enforcement challenged at checkpoint as cbp data shows. that is a roll call article from june 21, earlier this week, about the reductions after the expiration of title 42. what are your thoughts about biden's border policy? betty in florida, democrat line. caller: hello? host: yes, you are on. caller: hello. my name is betty mitchell and i

am 91. i would like to speak about the immigrant crossing. this is the main thing i am worried about. it is just like when we were slaves and could not go this place and that place. i don't know why mexico cannot keep their immigrants over there? we buy a lot of stuff from mexico. they can live over there. i do not want the united states to be like all the people who came to miami and all the cubans who came to tampa. i just don't want the united states to be ran by all these immigrants. one man said on television about a month ago, i think on cnn, we

are going to have a third party. the interviewer said, who is going to be the third party? never mind. it is going to be all mexicans. we are not going to have any american presidents. they are going to loot the united states. plus, the countries need to keep mexicans over in their old -- their own country. host: ok. got your point. let's bring another caller. sandra in alabama, independent line. caller: hello. i would like to say that we are going back and forth, blaming democrats, republicans, and whoever else. the real issue with immigration is congress'not doing their jobs.

they should create a program that goes to all states as well as immigrants so they can properly enter into the country and make it more efficient, instead of going back and forth. it is a waste of time. host: michael in florida. republican line. caller: good morning. the last caller made a lot of sense. we supposedly have a law on the books about immigration and it would seem appropriate that we ought to enforce the law you have and not blame democrats or republicans for failing to do it. i think the supreme court decision you talked about at the beginning of the show that was rendered yesterday -- i guess i agree with the decision. it seems to be saying the

government can prioritize how they will go about enforcing the law. you cannot go arrest all illegal people. i think the biden administration, although i don't agree with much of what they do, have the right to say that we should prioritize this and go after the ones who are a security risk to the country. and the recent people that have come across illegally. let's prioritize and go after those two categories to begin with. i think the supreme court made the right decision in saying the supreme court -- the administration can prioritize things. host: new orleans, mary on the democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. maybe -- i am an american and these tactics of intimidation

were held on me. i have always been a never-trumper. i believe it is a whole racketeering job. when enrico does something, they pin all of it. i was pretty outspoken about what is going on. last august, i went outside my house and there were these two -- this is kind of an ufo story. two rectangular, i think, drones which looked like huge cell phones flying over my house very slowly. they were real. i did not have my phone. i watched them go toward the airport behind me. host: alright, mary.

we appreciate your call. our next caller is kim in iowa on the independent line. caller: i agree with the lady from alabama and the guy from florida about we have laws on books that have to be enforced. but congress is reckless. they are supposed to pass bills. they passed daca in 2008 and 2013 but have not. they are playing with people's lives, people from mexico, and lying to us. they are not doing their job in congress of passing the immigration bill. they are playing with people's lives. they do not want to pass it. they are playing with -- every election, they start talking

about immigration and mexicans are coming. every time there is an election, they choose not to pass the bill. everyone agrees we should have immigration laws but congress is not listening to the majority. host: our next caller is on the republican line. sammy, north carolina. caller: good morning. for the not too bright guy that just called you, there are immigration laws, but this administration is not adhering to them. i think it is fair to say that you have never voted republican, correct? just like jesse? we now have a hunter biden on a recording -- host: we are talking about

immigration policy. do you have comments for immigration? caller: you are trying to protect this corrupt president -- host: when we are on other topics, you are welcome to call back. susan from new york. democratic line. caller: i disagree with joe biden's policy because i live in a rural area where we have very few industry. we have very few jobs. it is not that i dislike anybody trying to get away from bad situations. it is that our school system will be affected by the 7 million people that have been let through the border because we do not have the amount of money to teach the children we do have. the problem is joe biden does not have to worry. he is a multimillionaire and his

son is too and his sisters. they do not have to worry. but when i see my grandchildren going to school and getting less of an education that they could without the wide open border, it is irritating. our counties in new york state are fighting against kathy hochul who wants to put all these people in our counties. if they want to be a sanctuary city in new york, they have a right to be. new york city, the sanctuary. but the people in outlying areas have the right not to be. it is unfair. we have not got the money new york city has. new york city controls new york state. when i vote in the democratic primary, i know if the man is less than popular with new york city, he will never win. the scales are unbalanced.

i want people to know that every time a young family comes in, someone has to educate those children. they have to go somewhere to be educated which means your tech -- your taxes go up and my taxes go up. it is not that i dislike people with the inflation under the biden administration, people cannot afford groceries who have lived here for 70 something years. what is joe biden thinking? i would like someone to tell me. he does not have to worry about it. he has a wall around his house. host: we got your point. let's go to the independent line. john coley from ann arbor, michigan. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: my grandparents came

from scandinavia to the united states in the late 1890's. we were workers then. the fact of the matter is the birth rate today of americans is 1.64 children per woman. that is not replacement and does not replace the population we have. the reality is that we need workers. the mexican people that come here worked very hard and take a lot of jobs in areas where folks do not necessarily want to work. they suffered enormous difficulties in getting drivers license and so on.

we need these workers. a lot of them in rural areas -- i grew up in iowa. the county was 10% or more hispanics. not only mexicans but from what a molech, nicaragua, and honduras. we need those people. all this fear of the immigrants -- we have had this before. we were afraid of the irish, the italians, this group and that group. peoples that come here become americans. they are absorbed into the society and we do fine. there is no reason to be afraid. we need to make it easier for people to come here legally and a bite here legally. and to get their social security legally.

host: next is blair from idaho. republican line. caller: i just have the feeling that the immigration enforcement by the biden administration is contrary to policy that would be legal. the immigration enforcement is allowing too many illegal people to come into the country. that is the problem with the enforcement. the reason the states are having such a problem is a high cost that the states will have to receive reparation from the u.s. government in order to foot the bill.

somebody always fits the bill for illegal immigration. it is going to be an ongoing problem until illegal immigration is stopped. this is the problem. it is not enforced. host: i want to show video. this is homeland security secretary alejandra mayorkas at hearing in march. he is discussing his approach to the southern border. [video clip] >> once our concrete steps you can take to try to alleviate -- what are concrete steps we can take to try to alleviate pressure on the southern border that he would recommend you pay attention to? >> there are multiple. number one, we need to fix our broken immigration system. everyone agrees it is broken.

number two, we need to build safe, lawful and orderly pathways to people do not put their lives in the hands of smugglers. we need to cut smuggler organizations out and reduce illegal migration and build lawful pathways. number three, we need to address outlets. why do people leave their countries of origin to travel through multiple countries to reach the u.s. or elsewhere? we are seeing enormous migration. host: that was homeland security secretary alejandra mayorkas talking about his enforcement policy of the southern border. that was in a hearing in march. we are getting responses on social media and in text messages. here is one from joseph in north carolina who writes, "the constitution is very specific. several states have -- states

like texas and for the have no rights to send immigrants to or massachusetts. the public and cannot choose to kick law-abiding immigrants out of the united states." ross writes, "we should not be fumbling around with border issues. americans have enough problems with inflation, gouging food prices, soaring health care and more." on facebook, apparently he would rather have millions of immigrants, legally and still challenge taxpayers f -- as if it is good and well. ashley responds to views on president biden's border policy. considering it is congress who has to write laws for immigration, which they have not, and the judiciary to

enforce the laws, i think joe biden is doing rate. one work from joe who says, president biden and progressives want an open border but neither party will ever do anything to secure the border while they can use it as a campaign issue. we want to know your thoughts on president biden and his immigration enforcement policy. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's go now to betty in winston-salem, north carolina. democratic line. caller: yes. i was just listening to all the comments made about immigration. we know immigration is one of

the problems but the bigger problem is the united states is -- immigrants want a better life like everybody else. we were supposedly all created equal. they will work so i don't know why people -- the biden administration and joe biden are doing a hell of a job. they are trying to work with the immigrants to get everything in place but republicans keep getting in the way. congress is not doing the job they should be doing. just like back in slavery time, they say they are the only ones but this is a whole world full of people and god created all of us. they need to step back and do what they need to do to make things better and keep everything going.

and stop downing people because of their nationality. [indiscernible] not because of their skin color or nationality. host: ok. we got your point. let's go to our next caller. richard in chicago, illinois. independent line. caller: i would like to say that what you needed on the border was texas, mexico, and canada are being infiltrated by over 100,000 illegal immigrants. el paso, brownsville, and more.

we need an electric fence and this. the illegal incursion of the country. these immigrants are coming to america to take over what they consider the best real estate in the country and it has to be stopped. and kamala harris has to be fired. host: let's go to the republican line. jerry is calling from virginia. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i have several points. first, immigration law clearly states that anyone who crosses our border illegally shall be detained until such time that they have an asylum hearing. that has happened zero times since joe biden took office. he violated his oath of the very day he swore to it.

he ordered iced to stop enforcing that law on his first day. second, they claim the numbers of crossings are down. the number of crossings wading across the river is down because they are processing them south of the border and bringing them across by the busload. that is right, by the busload. the numbers are higher. that is just some talking points. how you people believe everything this administration says, i cannot believe it. host: our next color is a shay in annapolis, maryland. democratic line. caller: i am hearing a lot of these callers into specially a lot of these baby boomers, white

republicans, talking about shut the border down. i believe this is a demographic issue. i formally believe that if the people who cross the border were white, we would not have this issue. they will be the minority pretty soon and do not want to lose their privilege or their white power. i think the immigration system can be fixed a little bit but as long as these -- these people are working and paying taxes, they should be able to come into the country. if you look at all these right wing news channels, they will show what is going on along the borders but will not show who works in the farms. americans do not want those jobs. hispanics work those jobs. where do you think food and crops come from? without the hispanics, we would

be nothing. this is a land of immigration. host: i appreciate the call. adele from washington. independent line. caller: good morning. am i on? host: yes. caller: hello. what i think about the biting immigration -- thebiden -- the biden immigration enforcement, i think they have made great strides. i don't understand where many of these callers get their information. border patrol has stated there has been a 70% drop in people trying to enter the country. you should not listen to fox news who plays the same bs over

and over again, rain washing people to think you are being attacked -- brainwashing people to think we are being attacked by mexicans. border crossings are down because secretary mayorkas has put a great new system in place. that is all i wanted to say. host: let's go to the republican line. gary from sterling, virginia. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: glad to hear you on there. i talked to you on may 1 and asked if you could get elon musk on. and i asked you if you could ask brian lamb, what did president

eisenhower say to the evangelists when they asked him to change the platform of the republican party? host: we are talking about immigration policy this morning. do you have any thoughts about that? caller: absolutely. host: go ahead. caller: where two immigrants come from, a legal, otherwise, and refugee? they come from bambino's because we do not have any birth control which would we be cheaper than the fence or anything else. they have a woman in el salvador and lock her up for 11 months. she got raped for -- by six guys and is in jail because she got

an abortion. what nonsense is that. anybody who believes there should not be abortion is believing in nonsense. i believe in common sense and the opposite of common sense is nonsense. that is what we have a lot of going on today. i am an old-time republican and i believe in common sense, not nonsense. host: all right. next, israel in lancaster, south carolina. democratic line. caller: hello. i was listening to all of -- listening to this program and both democrats and republicans. we have to go back to reagan and bush and south america. when they were trading guns, they left the people poor than

ever and left them with -- poorer than ever and left them with gangs. they are calling people criminals but who started this stuff? you have to look at reagan and bush. i will make -- make another point. when the indians, which i am part indian, my ancestors saw europeans coming here, what would they say? if you look at the mexicans, they are indians and native americans. part of this country is theirs. wars do not stop -- the bible says thou shall not covet but wars do not stop. when you take something illegally, wars do not stop this conflict going on. there are two separate things

going on. immigration for europeans. there never has been a policy for people of color. that is where america is. america needs to solve the problem it has. until there is fairness in this system, between republicans and democrats, because none of them seem to have -- they all have a problem with solving this problem. guess what? they are experts. that is all i have to say. host: right here in washington, d.c. independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. what is your comment? caller: i am very grateful to the last brother that spoke. he made it explicitly clear he is a native american. if you listen to the program --

[indiscernible] he is a native american. it does not matter whether you are a republican, democrat or independent, none of these people that are talking are native american. all our non-natives. why are you behaving the way we are behaving -- we behaving the way we are behaving? what is the problem? whether you are republican, democrat, or independent. i remember when donald trump was talking. he was talking about let's make america great again. when was america great? these people are coming in --

native americans are coming from south america and we are claiming they are illegal. i went to camden university in michigan. a lot of immigrants were coming into canada and coming down and are regarded as citizens. from canada, they are coming down. host: ok. rick in pennsylvania. republican line. caller: no one has mentioned the cartels who dictate our immigration policy. it is shameful. fentanyl, immigrants being killed or raped because we have no border control. i wish people would look at the

9/11 recommendations about border security. the president's first job is to protect the american people. if people came into this country and our criminals and undesirables, then you create tens of thousands of problems because we do not check who is coming in and how. my ancestors came in legally. i am sure many others did. there were sacrifices made. you cannot let cartels set the tone. shame on joe biden for what he did. host: let's hear from dominic from ontario, canada on the democratic line. caller: just going to the last thing the caller said. the cartels were trained by the cia to smuggle drugs into america. they have been trained.

the fentanyl is only a problem because they started cutting up precursors from other drugs in america. who owns the ip for fentanyl? america. they own the ip for the drugs they complain about. host: ok. next, bill in michigan. independent line. caller: good morning. i worked in detroit on my life. i say send a million up to detroit. we have a lot of waste land and need all. please, send them up here. host: all right. kevin, marshall, texas. republican line. caller: good morning. good morning, america. i wanted to address what the

maryland caller said because i am white and an oma graph -- immigrant. i also teach in texas. [indiscernible] host: i really want to hear what you have to say but you are breaking up. is there a way you can get better reception so i can hear you? caller: do you hear me any better? host: that is a little better. caller: ok, i am trying. host: kevin? i am sorry but you cannot hear you at all. i really want to hear your comments. try to get better reception and call us back. robert in albini, georgia. democratic line. caller: i would like to say, my

grandfather is from the cherokee tribe. the white man enter this country and took this country over from the indians. now, they want to stop other people from coming in. this country belongs to god. if you read the bible, the bible says one today -- one day the topol go to the bottom and the bottom will go to the top. i was a marine for 32 years. while i was there, they were shipping drugs back with bodies over here to the u.s. some you could not ship back home. after that, they came back with a drug.

the only way you can control these -- is on drugs. they wanted to bring the black people down. i know my complex really good. by the same countries and same bylaws, the bottom rail is coming to the top and the top is going to the bottom. this country belongs to god. host: mark rutte in kerrville, texas -- margaret in kerrville, texas. caller: good morning. the u.s. needs to go back several hundred years to their policies to let into america. it has been the policy of

business first, not the idea of helping the people. business first. like the united farm company. i have not eaten a banana in years because of them. they exploited the people in every business way possible and supported the dictators because they would give them what they wanted. they would give them land and put nothing at all. that is one of the reasons we owe latin america a great deal for what you have done to them in the past. even recently, when hillary, the secondary of state -- secretary of state, in honduras when there was a coup, they took away the legitimate president and put someone else in place. the policy was we are setting

aside -- standing aside and letting it happen. when the coup happens, immediately the secretary of state recognized the leader of the coup. you people need to read history and see what the united states has done to latin american countries. i taught history at university and that was my partake in her field. -- that was my particular fields. i did not know until then what the united states did to those poor countries, keeping people oppressed by upholding dictators . it is about time you read history and recognized but this country has done to the small latin american countries. host: flint, michigan. jimmy, republican line. caller: i would like to state

something. i think people are missing the points by not going into the bible at deuteronomy 28. it tells you what happens when you burn all the -- when you bring all the poor people throughout the world into your country. it destroys it and the country is torn down. that is all i have to say. host: we are going to take a quick break. next, on washington journal, we are discussing the impact of the supreme court ruling on dobbs with the jackson women's health organization, one year since the court overturned roe v. wade. first up is carol tobias of the national right to life. then later, andrea miller of the national institute for reproductive health. ♪

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be of today in publishing with our podcasts about books. you can find more on their free mobile app or wherever you get our podcasts. li sunday, july 2 on in-depth, author and professor returns to take calls about politics, liberalism and social affairs. join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook

competence -- comments on sunday, july 2 on c-span2. healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this where americans can see democracy work. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are to get the opinion that matters most. this is what democracy looks like, c-span, powered by cable. host: welcome back to washington journal, we are joined by carol tobias who is the national right to life committee president,

good morning carol. thank you for joining us on this one year anniversary of the dobbs fee jackson ruling. can you tell us about the right to life committee. what is your mission and who do you work with? guest: national right to life is an affiliation of a 50 state organization. we have a couple 1000 chapters across the country to educate and motivate people to work with local elected officials. our goals are to protect unborn children as well as help mothers in various ways we can to make their decision easier. we also get involved in assisted suicide and euthanasia. we are concerned about protecting human life.

host: how are you funded? guest: strictly donations. we have wonderful supporters around the countries -- country who help us keep going. host: today marks one years since the supreme court decision. it overturned roe v. wade. can you tell us, how would you describe the last year since the ruling came down? guest: i'm not sure last year was any different than the past 50 years and that we had our ups and downs. we lost some state ballot measures but now we have kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house. several states have enacted laws to protect innocent, unborn children.

what i have been excited about is to see the energy, excitement and determination among our grassroots supporters. our people are ready for the challenges ahead. i have always thought are pro-life people were extraordinary in the way that they give of their time, efforts and talents that they put into helping the movement and saving babies. in the last year i have seen them exceeding go beyond. i'm excited about what the future holds. host: we want to get to our viewer calls, comments or questions for carol tobias of the national right to life committee. for republicans (202) 748-8001, for democrats (202) 748-8000, for independents

(202) 748-8002. i'm going to show him that this was created by the wall street journal and it shows abortion status among the 50 states as of june 22. turquoise is where access is protected, gray states has no protection or no ban and then you get to pink states where there abortion bands on the books but not yet enforced in georgia with the six week abortion band and pink and the deeper pink are the states where there are total bans on abortion. the dobbs decision did not outlaw abortion but it returned

the decision back to the states. now it varies as we see on this map. would it be better to have a federal law in place and if so, what would you like to see congress enact? guest: i don't see anywhere in the near future or the foreseeable future where they will be any type of federal law on abortion because there is not the support to do something to protect unborn children or do something that would protect abortion services. there is a role for the federal government. they could be very clear our tax dollars should not be used to pay for or promote abortions. health care provider should not be expected to participate in a

procedure where they have a conscientious objection where they have to be involved with the taking of innocent human life. this administration has done a lot to promote abortion and pay for abortion. that should all be changed by a new executive in the white house . host: you are breaking up just a little bit but i think we have you back. i know you said that congress is unlikely to pass legislation but let's say the circumstances were right, would you want congress to pass an abortion ban. if so, what would you advocate for? guest: i think we will get to the point eventually in this country where all unborn

children are protected. if we get to that point congress will have the support and votes to do it. right now, we are working at the state level in the supreme court did not say it was up to the states they said it was a sea u.s. representative so it's up to federal and the states. i want to see unborn children protective but that won't happen on a federal level until we have much more consensus in the country. host: let's get to some calls and again for republicans (202) 748-8001, for democrats (202) 748-8000, (202) 748-8002 for independents. host: our first call is on the republican line. caller: congratulations, i'm

glad about the effort you are making to save innocent human life. i believe human life begins conception. i have a question about the murders that if you kill a baby it's murder. how do you come to the conclusion because a lot of people would go to jail because is so popular to abort. i wanted to congratulate your efforts and am happy that you are hanging in the bottle. -- battle. i hope more states will improve laws against abortion. thank you for your efforts to save human life. host: any response? guest: thank you for that

encouragement, thank you very much. the national right to life early last year led an effort of more than 70 pro-life organization to say as we move forward to protect unborn children we don't believe the women who got abortions should be penalized. we see many of them are pushed into the abortion by a partner, spouse, boyfriend or their parents and they feel like they didn't have the support and options to make a different decision. for 50 years, women have been told that if they want to succeed, they want a good job or education they can have kids. we do not support putting women in jail for getting out abortion. our goal is just to save a fetus. host: let us hear from jeff.

he is calling in spring hill, florida on the democratic line. caller: i would like to assess lady how she feels about having the republican terrorist party nominate enforced sexual predators onto the supreme court , mainly kavanaugh and why is sexual predator like donald trump that in order to get this law passed where they can separate the country from state to state and not bring us together but separate is further that they are permitting sexual predators to make laws that tell

women what they can and cannot do with their own body. guest: i will not comment on what you said about the justice. i do want to make sure that you understand, women are not being given choices in this country right now. they are being told to get an abortion. that's why are their efforts by the democratic party to shut down pregnancy resource centers who do want to help women through the pregnancy, help them make that decision and if they decide to go ahead with the pregnancy and want help with that life, pregnancy centers are there to help them. there is effort to shut down those incredibly important pregnancy centers. there are women who have taken the first step in this abortion

pill cocktail and then suddenly they don't want to go through with this. there are phone calls available where she could reverse the abortion bill process. she is not being given that option by democrats. in colorado, and you talk assists her in the abortion process because that's what she wants to do they want to charge the doctor with medical misconduct. we are getting to the point where women don't have choices. everything is being taken away from them except abortion and i would hope more women would stand up and fight that they have options to choose life. host: our next collar is c&d in

kent, ohio on the independent line. caller: good morning, i am glad you're bringing up this topic. ok, how does a woman get pregnant? it comes from the seat of the man. everything seems to fall on the women, what she can do, what she can't do. too bad they can't do something that the man could take so that the seed would not impregnate somebody. it is really unfair that everything falls on the woman. maybe she is too promiscuous and she gets pregnant or she gets raped or incest, there is so much there that the point is. it's too bad that the man is not

more accountable in this whole situation. host: let's let carol respond to that? guest: i think it would be interesting if something was produced that would put more of the responsibility on the male figure. i have no problem with that. i think this is something if a couple is it ready for children they need to take precautions initially go both ways. host: ok, let's go to helga in fredericksburg, virginia on the democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i see you're committed to the right to life. if this is the national right to life, his life life at all

aspects, how come you are not fighting to protect the life of the living. there are children being killed. there are measures that could be passed to protect children. if you believe in the right to life you should fight for all life, not only the life of the unborn. children are being killed. there are measures that could be taken to protect children born to single women. others believe you should form a committee to protect all living

children. thank you. guest: i think he would find that the pro-life movement works to protect unborn children really values all human life. we can't solve all of the world's problem, all of the country's problems. i would certainly hope and expect that there are organizations that get involved in other aspects of saving and protecting human life. one of our board members is involved in human trafficking, trying to prevented and women who have come out of it. we have board members working in various aspects. when we come together as individuals we are focusing on the unborn children who need protection and on the sidelines helping in other areas but there are other groups and

organizations that are addressing other issues. we value and suspect all human life. we can't do it all. so we have tried to focus our efforts more in other areas. host: let's go to west virginia on the republican line. caller: hello. host: you are on. caller: the right to life, it's not up to the democrats to make the decision of who can live and who can't. god created children. he's the only person who should be allowed to take the life of the child. i was apparent in new york state. i lost five children. it wasn't because of abortion it was because of tubular pregnancies.

the democrats have no right to tell a person what to do for a child. if you don't want children quit dropping your pants and having sex. host: what rex said brings up a point we have heard a lot over the past year is that there are women with pregnancy complications who have not been able to terminate their pregnancies as doctors have recommended because of these abortion restrictions. how is your organization responding to women who have said they're not able to get medical care for pregnancy complications because of that ruling? guest: some of the states have laws that say abortion is not allowed in the mother's life is in danger and i think that is

where states need to make clear how does the medical profession determine which complications are life-threatening and which can be taken care of throughout pregnancy. many complications that do arise come later into the pregnancy, may be the latter half of the pregnancy. if it is something that is truly life-threatening like in ectopic pregnancy, something else going wrong. the doctors know. that is why they go to school. we have pro-life doctors and hospitals, catholic hospitals. they know how to deal with difficult circumstances and they know how to treat both mother and baby. they have two patients and they

treat them as best they can. i think it is incumbent upon states, there are state health departments to work with doctors to make sure they understand that if they want cases they can best help the woman and the baby. host: this is an article in politics, the antiabortion laws failedfailed in nebraska and soh carolina. measures that would have severely restricted abortion failed thursday in nebraska and south carolina which both have republican-controlled legislatures. a growing unease over the political popularity of strict bands. can you talk about how your organization iscan you talk abor

organization is responding to the perceived political backlash and how that bodes for the future of abortion restrictions? guest: we do have some legislaturesguest: we do have se legislatures -- legislators who may be a little nervous about how far they can go in passing legislation. we have others who don't want to go too far because he truly believe that they bear the responsibility to protect those unborn children. we are seeing the story of how the whole country is changing and now everybody wants wants to protect abortion. the gallup poll that just came out has made it very clear that the country hasn't changed in 30 years. if you ask people if abortion should be allowed in all circumstances or some circumstances it comes out

pretty even. 47, 46, 49, 51 over the past 50 years of people saying saying er abortion should be allowed in all or most circumstances or abortion could be saying either abortion should be allowed in all or most circumstances or abortion could be allowed and only limited circumstances or no abortion at all. the country hasn't moved in 30 years. there is a lot of attention because dobbs overturned roe but people haven't moved moved as much. host: moved as much. host: i brought up that gallop polling, the far left his 1975, the far right goes to the current date date 2023.

the top line is for those who say abortion should be legal only date 2023. the top line is for those who say abortion should be legal only under certain circumstances and it looks fairly even around 54% or so. the greenline says legal greenlr any circumstances started out under 20% that has gone up to 34% who responded legal under any circumstances. and then this dotted line are those who say that it should be illegal under all circumstances it started out around 20% in 1975 and only 13% in 2023. we wanted take your calls and comments on the first anniversary of the dobbs anniversary overturning federal productions for abortions. for republicans (202) 748-8001, for republicans (202) 748-8000, for independents (202) 748-8002,

let's go to the republican line. beth is calling from florida. caller: i would like to know how this lady looks at abortion. is it from a religious standpoint? and then i have another question? guest: i think i understood the question. i see this as a civil rights issue. we have an entire class of human being, the unborn child who are not legally protected. i see them at the moment of conception as part of the human family and i want to protect them. host: you you had another quest? caller: i was 22 years i was 22n

roe v. wade went into effect. we havewe have lost rights withe loss of roe, but the keywords were viability at 22 weeks. and viability at 22 weeks is not changed. if you are against abortion because you want to protect the are against abortion because you want to protect the life, six weeks, 22 weeks, abortion is abortion. we had more rights prior to roe that we have today. apparently you haven't been paying attention to the haven'tn paying attention to the politics because they are demanding no

abortion in any circumstance including the mother's life and there are life and there are a variety of reasons for that. not all abortions are performed because someone just doesn't want to have a baby. so many abortions are performed because of the mother's life or the non-viability of the fetus. i have read my bible, genesis 2 :7 that god breathed the breath of life and adam and he had a soul. host: let's let carol respond to this caller. guest: every state in the nation, even those who put into effect, protects a mother's life if it is in danger. as to god breathing life into

adam, i don't think that means unborn children prior to viability don't have the right to exist or continue living? thesethese are full human beingo have started, when they are born , while they are developing in the womb. they have fingerprints that no one else is going to have. these are unique individuals from the moment of conception cn and viability changes. it was 26 weeks, now we have babies surviving at 20 weeks. i don't think that can be a standard for whether or not a life should be extinguished. host: i want to bring up a text message we received.

can you touch on which states were territories -- or territoriesterritories that alln up to just station i thought viability was a cut off? guest: we have seen states going in the direction of allowing abortion for any reason throughout all nine months of pregnancy. some of those days are going to be new york, illinois, oregon, washington, california. they will stand up and say we do have a protection if it's towards the end of the pregnancy if the mother's help us in danger. health is so broadly defined they are still using the supreme court's definition from roe v. wade which allows for economic, familial, social concerns.

some of the states would argue that they do have protections later in the pregnancy but by using the health definition they have wiped out any protection for the unborn child. host: we will take one more we l , jennifer on the democratic line. we need you to quickly make your question or comment. caller: we will take one more cl , jennifer on the democratic line. we need you to quickly make your question or comment. caller: it is shocking that you would lie. i live in illinois. there is viability for a reason and 20 weeks, that's absolutely ridiculous that you would even say major medical health, it would be in an incubator for at in an incubator for at least four months. these lies are ridiculous with all of your religion i want to know how you deal with that when you go into church and you sit

down and you save these lies, is god ok with that? i just don't understand. with that? i just don't understand. host: let's let carol respond. guest: the word helpless in the bill. it is going to be an open door for abortions at any point. host: thank you so much for joining us, carol tobias thank r joining us, carol tobias national right to life committee president.e will take take a quk break. i want to let you know tha today is the first anniversary of the supreme court dobbs's overturning roe v. wade. former vice president michael pence will join oths for a pro-life rally at the lincoln memorial. you can watch live covere this morning beginning atyou can wats

morning beginning at 10:30 eastern on c-span, c-span now or online c-span.org. coming up, we will have andrea miller, the president of national institute for reproductive health presidentpresident of national e for reproductive health president, and then later we will speak with richard wagner. they found billions in covid relief earnings that may have been stolen. ♪

washington journal continues. a lot back on the discussion of the one-year anniversary since the dog dobbs decision overturned roe v. wade. we welcome andrea miller. tell us more about your organization and its mission and who you work with? guest: national institute for reproductive health president our advocacy organizations that work at the state and local levels to advance proactive policies that create just and

equitable access to reproductive health care. we do that by working hand-in-hand with partners on the ground. this could be reproductive health care providers, organizations, social justice organizations. groups that understand and appreciate their communities so there is just and equitable access to services necessary to provide our -- to control our bodies. host: who are you sponsored by? guest: we are fully independent and we focus on what's best based on science of medicine and what is best for the health and well-being for communities. host: you wrote an opinion piece marking the one year overthrow

of roe v. wade calling it a political compromise and you said trying to save roe v. wade became a fools errand. explain what you meant and what should supporters of reproductive freedom do in your opinion? guest: what i meant by that, if you look at the history of the last 50 years between roe v. wade was signed by the supreme court and when it was overturned a year ago, what we saw was that those who were opposed to reproductive freedom. those who wanted government to control decisions about our bodies and lives and futures have always wanted to be in abortion outright and take the decision about whether to have a child or with whom and taken out of our hands and into the hands of government. they have been single-minded and

driving towards that. while roe v. wade held promise there were 1300 laws against abortion that were passed by the states and as a result we ended up with this framework that whether or not you could get reproductive health care depended on your zip code, income level, your age and on whether you live in a rural community or how to access to a health care provider. all of those laws were what the antiabortion community claim they wanted realistic restrictions when they wanted to eviscerate roe v. wade and began for abortion. i'm calling for us to reimagine what does it take to get people

who make these decisions, how do we create a society that creates just and equitable access to abortion care but addresses the abysmal maternal mortality crisis which is worse and stays that band abortion. what is going to make it possible to have a future where we have allowed for people to make these decisions for for people to make these decisions for themselves, decisions that are right for themselves and their family are we creating a kind of society that forces what kind it was they make. that needs to be what we do going forwards. host: we are already getting calls for you. if you are a republican call us at (202) 748-8001, for democrats

(202) 748-8000, and for independents (202) 748-8002, your questions and comments about this one year anniversary. the first call is from johnny in maryland on the independent line. caller: thank you for c-span. when we discuss rights there's always the question for rights for whom which brings us to the antebellum era when both sides of the slavery both sides of the slavery debate had a different idea of what freedom was. who wanted to continue child slavery and those who saw the humanity and saw freedom as an individual right. we safeguard life liberty and property so we had to have a

to have a cataclysmic board to solve this dispute between those who saw property as primacy and then others as a liberty's primacy. we have the right to life and we are in a battle battle between o life is the interest, those who want to see abortion ended and a right to liberty cloaked in the language of bodily autonomy. and this is the same dehumanizing framework and advocating for this liberty interest will not refer to the personhood in any way of the unborn child. refer to the personhood in any way of the unborn child. this is the framework that precludes -- host: let's let andrea respond to a.

guest: i know people whose personal beliefs on this. i am glad you raised history because the fact is that the rise of the antiabortion movement and the efforts to eliminate the ability to have an abortion. the truth is abortion has been around since the beginning of time. the question is how is it going tothe question is how is it goig to happen and whether it will be safer not in the rise of the initial round of state laws and early 1800s was directly tied to the attempts attempts to continy and enslavement. the control of black women's bodies was an essential part of slavery. it's important to point out the history because there is a

direct connection between an attempt to control someone's fertility and slavery. fertility and slavery. when you look at some of the laws that have been passed in the past couple of years, the vigilante laws that anyone could file a lawsuit against someone for having an abortion or help someone have an abortion is very reminiscent of the vigilante laws for runaway slaves. i think it's important to remember our history and grounded in understanding. i don't want to get into a debate about the constitution i want to get into a debate about what's best for society and how to improve the health of the individuals in society. the fact that maternal mortality is increasing exponentially and

stays that have band abortion should tell us everything we need to know about the kind of future were looking at. host: let's go to the democratic line. ron is in pennsylvania. caller: good morning ladies. i think abortion should be placed on the ballot like it was in kansas and michigan. let people vote on it. like the lady before, that first guest you had on. that should be put on the ballot. i would like women to form a group like mothers against drunk driving. mother's against gun atrocities because we worry about the unborn. but with all the kids getting killed by guns, you don't see the republican party worried

about gun violence, children getting killed in schools. these things are kinda hypocritical. that's basically all i have to say. i would like to see it on the ballot. guest: i really appreciate both of your points. first of all we know last year in the midterm elections there were six ballot measures addressing the abortion issue that went to the voters and every single one, overwhelmingly we want people to be able to make these decisions themselves. voters support the ability to make these choices. it was in michigan, kansas, kentucky, montana. your point is really well taken. the reason why we have the abortion bands and rollbacks of

people's ability to make decisions is because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. into your point about gun violence. if you map this out, the same people in same elected officials that are banning abortion are standing in the way of common sense gun laws. they are taking away the right to vote, particularly of people of color. they are attacking lgbtq folks, especially trans kids. that is the agenda you're talking about. it's about who gets to make fundamental decisions in our lives and are we going to build safe communities and let people make determinations for themselves? i really appreciate your call. host: let's go to the republican line. donna is calling from butler, missouri. caller: yeah, it is donia. i

heard you talking earlier or that lady about abortion and stuff. i was just curious to know what about the baby? does the baby have a right to say whether it wants to die, be murdered or not in the wound? it don't have a say, it don't have a voice. i just don't understand why or how anybody could do that? even under rape, that baby belongs to god. we all belong to god and one of the 10 commandments is style shalt not kill. if you kill that baby in the womb that baby is a baby at conception. life begins at conception. and from that point on, the

mother, she has a right to her body but she don't have a right to say anything about the baby's body. something ain't right here. can you please answer that for me? host: go ahead andrea. guest: i want to appreciate and recognize that you have the right and i very much respect to hold the sacred beliefs. i just want to note that not everyone believes that. the fact that many religions still believe that. there are a number of lawsuits pending with religious institutions and religious freedom advocates who are challenging these abortion bands because the contravene their religious beliefs. they prevent someone from acting on their religious beliefs. the reality is when you look at what science tells us, that is what we should be basing public

policy on. i respect deeply that we have different beliefs about when life begins and i hope that we can agree and in our society we should be able to hold those in your belief should not trump mine and mine don't try peers because i won't force you to do anything outside of your belief system. i hope we can reach a point where we are clear there is not a monopoly on god and religion when it comes to the issue. there is a wide range of beliefs about when life begins and medicine tells us, it is not at conception. i appreciate we hold different beliefs and i respect your right to hold those beliefs. host: next on the line, liz is calling from new jersey on the democratic line. caller: hello, i am calling

because i was born seven years ago at the end of a very high risk pregnancy for my mother. she had been severely burnt at age five and then from age 5-20 she had several surgeries. she had great difficulty carrying a child to term and that meant the eight months she was pregnant with me, seven of them she had to spend in bed on a regimen so i could get here. everybody wants to focus on the triumph of having me. saying that i was lucky and she

was lucky in the end. but she had to be in bed for seven months. she had a loving husband, my father who did take care of all the financial needs. but not every woman has these preparations for difficult pregnancies and i think people who think every woman who can conceive a child can also deliver the child, they are not facing reality. there are women across this country with various health conditions have the same problem my mother had. i think we need to realize that abortion is necessary for some women. thank you. guest: thank you for sharing your personal story. i really appreciate that and i

want to point out. as you know, pregnancy is not a cake walk. the ability to get the health care you need as well as support you need is not something everyone has. i am thankful to hear that your mother have that kind of support and i appreciate you can see the larger picture and understand that not everyone has that. the reality is we are seeing the immediate and direct impact of the harm that the denial of abortion care is having. the health and well-being of women and their families is significantly reduced when abortion gets restricted or banned in the sad fact is, if you look at the states that have banned abortion they also have the rates of highest infant mentality, maternal mentality rates. the worst education outcomes in

the highest rates of gun violence. to those who are spending their time trying to triple down on preventing people from making decisions about their lives, why are you not focused on creating healthier environments. not focused on creating healthier environments. why don't you care that abortion bands mean that women are miscarrying, going to hospitals who were turned away because their health will not be harmed enough to justify treating the miscarriage. go home until you get sicker and what happens is the end up back in the emergency room with sepsis and almost died. i appreciate you recognizing and bringing your personal story into this because every person's

circumstances different and every pregnancy is different. the only one who knows what that's like is the people who are involved in it. host: let's go to new york, john is calling on the independent line. caller: thank you for the conversation and think you miss miller for putting yourself in the hot seat. i notice when the conversation is about abortion they talk about a woman's right but they don't mention what a woman is. how could woman be anyone who began their menstrual cycle, anyone from 10, 11 or 12. someone that age can go into planned parenthood in most states, have an abortion and their parents would not have to be notified. in those days with parental consent they can get a judicial bypass.

what do you consider a woman? someone who just began their menstrual cycle? will they be able to make this decision on whether to have an abortion or not? african-americans are 14% of the population yet there abortion rate is about 43% of the population. what would you consider the definition of woman and being able to make a decision on having an abortion enough on their own. host: andrea? guest: thank you for the questions i think there are important ones. your point to those who can become pregnant. the vast majority of young people, whatever age including someone who is pregnant at 11, 12 or 13 they talk to their parents and family. those who can't or don't, really

can't. if you think about it, 11, 12 or 13 who is it, 11, 12 or 13 who is pregnant something is going wrong in that circumstance. the reality is, when young people come to the health care facilities the first question is, what is going on in your life? how did we get here? can you talk to your parents and what you need for support? it's not do you have an abortion or nothing or do you have an abortion or continue the pregnancy as a 12-year-old and then now you become a parent? as if that's the right outcome? think right outcome? think about the trajectory we are talking about for young people. thankfully, most young people can and do talk to their parents and for those who can't, there's a reason not to. unfortunately, we cannot

legislatelegislate whether wavee healthy families. to your other point, we live in a society where people of color, particularly black women have less access to reproductive health care care and worse outcs when it comes to pregnancy. the crisis is that we have not done enough pregnancy. the crisis is that we have not done enough to create just and equitable access to reproductive decisions so that we are eliminating the kinds of bias. listen to the story story, blacn go into the hospital and they are not listen to and they have worse outcomes and they are often dying because of it. that is a tragedy, that's a crisis tragedy, that's a

crisis and something we should be addressing. host: we got a question on twitter from @bmwtonyi, what restrictions would this guest except on abortion? guest: i believe the decision should be left in the hands of who was pregnant and whoever and whoever they feel is important to include in their decision. i think what you have to do is ask yourself, do you trust the people in your life to make decisions for themselves or do you not? do you think the government should make them? i believe trusting people to make decisions best for them and not g giving government that control is what's best for us. you've seen through history that people make the decisions that are best for themselves. host: larry is up next from illinois on the republican line.

caller: good morning. my question is, or commonness, i am a republican but i totally think women should have the right to get an abortion and you brought up a half a dozen controversial topics today. at 76, i would like to see how this ends up. guest: thank you for calling in and clearly your life experience has told you a lot about why this debate is so important. if i'm reading into what you said, you are deeply concerned that the trajectory of all of these bands in the attempt for a ban on abortion would be devastating from the health and well-being of the economic

system, health care system. i have more hope as one of the earlier collars side, the vast majority of people believe they should be able to access reproductive health care, make decisions that are the best for their families should be able to control their bodies. i believe that is where we will land. unfortunately, there is going to be real harm. people's well-being and lives are being lost in the process. i remain hopefuli remain hopefuw the vast majority in this country understands and appreciate why it is so important to access reproductive

health care and to build a legal structure around that. host: we are getting to the end of our segment but let's take a quick question or comment from we are getting to the end of our segment but let's take a quick question or comment from harold from alabama on the independent line. quickly harold. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been watching c-span for a long time. abortion is not in the bible. the bible says we should not kill. we are killing these kids, there's nothing about that. my mother was in a position where it was the baby or her and my father chose the baby. abortion is not in the bible. host: i think we got your point. any closing thoughts? guest: i want to thank everyone

for coming in today and sharing their views on this. i want to thank you for having me. i think on this one year mark as we look back and look forward in light of return of roe v. wade i really encourage everyone to get involved to recognize you have a role to play in creating a more just and role world and improving access to them -- productive health care. your officials need to hear from you. i encourage everyone to vote in every election up and down the ticket. that is how we're going to turn this around and make sure we are building society where the health and well-being of women and families is paramount. host: all right. thank you again for joining us this morning. guest: thank you. host: next up, investigative

reporter richard lardner will be discussing and associated press analysis that found billions of federal covid-19 relief money that may have been stolen or wasted. ♪ >> c-span bookshelf podcast makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcasts and nonfiction books in one place so you can discover new authors and ideas. each week we make it convenient us into multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors stressing history, biographies, current events, and culture. from our programs about books, book notes plus, and q&a. you can c-span bookshelf podcast and all of our podcasts on the free c-span now mobile vid app or wherever you get your podcasts and our website

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just look like this, it looks like this americans can see democracy at work were citizens are informed. our public drives. -- a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source for the nation's capital to wherever you are because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined now by richard lardner one of three authors of an associated press investigation that found billions in federal covid-19 relief funding that may have a stunt -- stolen or wasted. i want to break up -- we have highlights from your investigation that found 280 billion dollars potentially

stolen. $123 billion wasted or misspent and together that amounts to about 10% of the $4.2 trillion in covid-19 relief money dispersed so far. what were the specific programs or initiatives this money came from? guest: it was three major pandemic relief programs. pandemic unemployment assistance, federal government sending hundreds of billions of dollars in unemployment aid to the states so they could pay out benefits the people suddenly out of work. there was paycheck protection which was a small business administration program. very large, hundreds of billions of dollars, and tend to help businesses -- intended to help

businesses stay open and help employees. another small business demonstration program called covid economic injury disaster loans to help small businesses. the bulk of the potential fraud comes from these three programs. initially during the pandemic washington lowered safeguards or drop them. that would have waited out shady borrowers, undeserved applicants and it is how a lot of this happened. host: i am pulling up the top of the article on the ap news website. the name of the headline the great growth: how billions in covid-19 relief aid was stolen or wasted. what were some of the examples of fraud scheme you and your

colleagues encountered? guest: if you look at unemployment assistance people using social security for deceased people, federal prisoners using social security numbers to claim benefits in multiple states, which you cannot do. on the small business administration program, there was not the normal checks you would do with somebody applies for a loan of say $500,000 or $1 million or more. there were self certification. people could assure on their own they were who they said they were. those were some of the ways which people grab money. host: want to get some of our listeners about covid-19 relief funding. the associated press investigation or whether in your own experience you have seen

people who have obtained funding and how it was use. if you are a republican 202-748-8001. republicans, 202-748-8001. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. democrats, 202-748-8000. want to bring up another child that is based on your investigation and it shows -- i want to bring up another chart base on the investigation and it shows 3.2 trillion approved under former president trump as he covid relief. 1.9 trillion approved by legislation passed under president biden mailing 2021 american rescue plan. that is a total of $5.1 trillion of emergency pandemic aid measures. how did the scale of money

injected into the economy impact the government's ability to keep track of potential fraud? guest: that is a good question. u.s. comptroller general calling it the largest american rescue plan in history. when that much money goes out so quickly it is difficult to keep track of it all. it is one reason federal prosecutors and investigators are so busy right now trying to figure out where it all went. how much of it may have been stolen. host: did you run into into that there was a sense when the money was being distributed that it was free money that people could

get away with? and now some of those same people years later they have regrets about possibly obtaining those dollars? guest: i suppose if you got caught in a sentence -- and sentence and you lead pled guilty you probably have regrets but i really cannot speak to people who have not. maybe they feel like they have gotten away with it. i should note last year congress passed and the president signed into law extension was on the statue of limitations for 5-10 years for fraud or for crimes related to the small business administration programs, the paycheck protection and economic injury disaster loan. there is a push for that same extension crimes related to pandemic, unemployment assistance. now government has more time.

until 2030 really to look into untangle these cases. some can be complex and take time to figure it out. there is that. there is more time to look into this. president biden pushing a $1.6 billion plan to strengthen pandemic fraud, law enforcement's ability to go after pandemic fraudsters. one think he wants to do -- there are three teams under the justice department there are solely looking at pandemic fraud. he wants the triple that number. there is a lot going on to catch people who may have stolen money. host: let's get to some of the calls coming in. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002.

leonard town, maryland. joseph on the democratic line. caller: good morning, everybody and thank you for everybody's work. we live really close to bc -- i wonder if the bill that staff, certain senators wrote an you will be held accountable but now the site people not being accountable and i'm excited about that. in my town, there are several many professional business, lawyers that got so many hundreds of thousands of dollars and me, the new guy from maryland who recently moved down here, an outsider, i was not able to get a ppp loan. i own a business. a loss their to my income when i got let go from one of the guys that got to the loan it is

anything, -- is there anything guy like me -- have a daughter with cancer. it has been a long goal. is there anything we can go to call congress to get help? is there any citizen that had a hard time with a call? thank you all for your work. guest: thank you for that question. in terms of -- these programs are -- have expired. he could try calling one of the agencies inspector general's office. some have hotlines people can call. we can call his member of congress that she can cost member of congress but beyond that, i do not know if there is magical way to go back to get

money. i wish i had more to help him with but there will be about it. host: new york. lee on the republican line. caller: hi. you mentioned president trump had 3.2 trillion in covid relief. i was interested in knowing that at the time, and de blasio kept telling trump they needed help and he got -- changed over into a covid health think. he also sent mercy ship down to the city for that. yet de blasio sent covid back to the nursing homes.

also pharmaceuticals. a public-private concern pharmaceutical for vaccines. is that part of the -- ventilators. he got ventilators. is that part of that trillion dollars? thank you. guest: yes, it probably would have been. between march 2020 and march 2021 there were six majors pieces of legislation that included that money. more than $5 trillion. i do not get the last part of the question. host: we will keep moving on. claire in charlottesville, virginia on the democratic line. caller: hi.

i am curious as to members of congress who may have taken an appropriate ppp loans also gotten forgiveness such as matt gaetz or marjorie taylor greene. i know there's a congressman from north carolina. he speak to that please. guest: we did not get into specific loans into members of congress. i do not know if they got them. if you have that information,. i'm not aware -- if you had that information, that would be interesting. i'm not aware of many members of congress got large loans. it is true members of congress may have businesses. but we focus on potential fraud in these three major programs. luke will continue reporting about the subject -- we will continue reporting about the subjects maybe we will come across that at some point. host: we have a question from

dall canyon who writes, was not the idea to get a money into the economy quickly? would that not imply less rigorous oversight then most government programs? guest: yeah. i think that is a bit -- good comment. that was the goal. get the money out of as. the quickest way to do that to lower the barriers, and ti fraud -- antifraud to safeguard. it is important to note the programs helped a lot of people and businesses. the people were out of work. businesses were shuddering. the economy was beginning to be in freefall. washington reacted. for whatever blame people want to sign to washington, it took

people on the others this, who went to still the money. if you go back to 2020 there are doctors and nurses risking their lives, law enforcement personnel in the most -- emergency medical personnel all risking their lives to help people. there are people who were looking to pull scams this windows and saw it is an easy payday. i do not think people should lose sight of that. host: another question on twitter from steve who writes in 2021 somebody used information to apply for unemployment insurance in new york and kentucky. mott employer was notified by new york and i filled out a fraud report. i did the same for kentucky. seemed like it was organized crime. has anyone been arrested? have you found a lot of this would appear to be fraud or theft was

organized crime? guest: yeah. there were organize, gangs, criminal groups who targeted this money both in u.s. and overseas. yes. that happened. i mentioned people using social security numbers of deceased persons, federal prisoners using suspicious emails, foreign internet protocol addresses to apply for loans. yes that happened host:. back to the phone lines. helen in brooklyn, new york on the democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. a follow-up in the young lady who called on congress receiving ppp loans. the only story i was able of the

follow on and i read the story in late 2022 and marjorie taylor greene was coming out against president bidens forgiveness for the students loans and what she was confronted she said she received $103 -- 183,504 dollars forgiven and she did not fill a student was entitled to the $20,000. this representative is looking into stolen or wasted, do they agree that hundreds of thousands of dollars that congress members received for their businesses was not stolen or wasted? were they entitled to it? guest: well, do not know the details of those loans in particular.

there were an awful lot -- you could apply for loans forgiveness on picture protection and very often get it. -- paycheck protection and often get it. it was not an unusual thing. host: jim in north carolina on the democratic line. caller: good morning, everyone. i have witnessed a lot of these things that money has went to businesses that were driving and doing better during the pandemic -- thriving and doing better during the pandemic darren normal. there is one business to got almost $600,000 worth of ppp loans and most of that was forgiven. i want to talk about recently was united states government created this problem. by shutting down our entire country when it was not necessary to do that.

i am from the government and i'm here to help you. then they gave away all of this money. wasted this money. now they're going to spend billions trying to figure -- figure out who they gave it to. we should just close the door on this chapter. say we made a mistake as a government by shutting down the entire country creating chaos in our economy when it was unnecessary. i believe it is been billion dollars trying to figure out who stole some money will you allow them to still it is like trying to close the barn door when the horses go. host: you want to respond? guest: writing this story and talking to law enforcement people, prosecutors, michael horowitz, justice department expect a general, i can

understand how that caller might feel their way but there is a sense that if you do that you will send a signal to people that it is ok to still from the government. that you can take it and if there is no penalty for that . for them that is not the sign they want to send. that is a major reason why they're continuing to look into this so aggressively. host: you mentioned the questioning of an inspector general. there have been many congressional hearings where lawmakers have questioned inspector general overseen the broad investigations. how much money they expect to get back. let's listen to labor u.s. department inspector general larry turner who was before the house oversight and accountability subcommittee in march.

[video clip] >> you expected the investments make pursuing that fraud will get that money back. >> let me say i cannot say that. once fraud goes out of the door, it is hard to get it back. we can go after their fraudsters that committed these atrocities so that is what i would tell you. it is hard and complicated getting funds back. we've identified about $95 million we have do our work we have been able to get back. that is not all in funds, that is just of judicial system, civil cases we were able to get. it takes a while to get through the judicial system where there may be for or five years before we see some of that. host: what more do you want to say about what we heard from inspector general turner based on your reporting? guest: he makes a very good

point. what happens when he talks about fraud goes out the door it is hard to get back, the money spent quickly. people who illegally obtained a loan, they -- the money would go perhaps to a foreign bank account or just spent on things like fancy cars and expensive vacations and expensive clothes. once it is spent in that way, it is very difficult to recover it. that is the point he is getting at. it is a good one. host: angie in rock hill, south carolina on the independent line. caller: good morning. i just want to share my experience of how this covid program was so -- i work for

government contractor and i am an independent contractor. i was not an employee. but i was made an employee so the guy i worked for could get ppp loans. he got three separate ppp loans that total $200,000. i went to the office every day. i do not work from home. he was able to get $200,000 by making me an employee. when his lungs were forgiven, i was made -- when his loans were forgiven i was made back and then independent contractor. my representative, member of the seditious freedom caucus, took out $600,000 in loans and he did not have to pay it back. he's one of the top 15 which is

congressman in congress today -- richest congressman in congress today. guest: i'm not sure if there was a question. marva comment. -- more of a comment but if she has concerns about how she was first made -- she was independent contractor and suddenly an employee and now back to a independent contractor. i did not know whether or not to say that was improper or not. but maybe it is worth a phone call to inspector general's office to find out. host: a text message we have received from carol in boston. she writes investigating and determining who stole from these ppp loans is fine. but with the punishment be daca can these folks be prosecuted? what type of punishment? they're not good with money so they cannot pay it back. it shall possible?

-- is jail possible? guest: certainly. people have gone to jail. people may have fine. there are civil lawsuits too. it is a pretty serious matter to steal from the government, especially if you are stilling a lot of money. yeah. they take it seriously. host: were going to florida. joe on the democratic line. caller: good morning, everybody. this is an interesting topic. even as we speak there are private and commercial framing people can get unspent loans money from the covid era. it is interesting that minority

own businesses did not get their hands on these loans. thatit is appalling that a lotf congressional members not only got loans, but actually got that forgiven. well 202-748-80 -- where there are costs to, there should also be investigation into the banks like wells fargo. the evidence does exist that they did not approve loans to their minority owned businesses. those minority owned businesses are still suffering. that is a comment. host: any response? guest: i'm sorry. that piece of it was something like to initially but i

appreciate his comment. host: last of the segment. dave in new york on the independent line. caller: good morning. i just have a comment. there is somewhere around 450 billion between business fraud and unemployment fraud. i was wondering the comment -- it would be totally irresponsible to send money to federal prisons, any prison or overseas, and definitely -- why would they send money out of the country? guest: on the federal prisoner, i do not think they were sending money to federal prisons. people are using social numbers of federal prisoners.

identity theft. as far as sending money out of the country, as part of a legal loan, i do not know how much that happened. people overseas applied for and got loans or benefits improperly. i cannot speak to the second part. host: thank you again f joining us. richard lardner one of the authors of the associated press investigation title the great drift: how billions in covid-19 relief aid was stolen or wasted. we appreciate you joining us. next up is open forum. start calling in now and will get to the calls after the break. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000.

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the major daily newspapers. i'm showing "the wall street journal" right now the headline waggoner chief escalates feud with moscow. new york times headline, wagoner chief accused of permitting a coup putting russia on edge. the washington post as well wagoner leader faces arrest. here is some more from the washington post's on their website. it says what is happened so far -- if you're just joining us the post writes, here is what to know about the situation in russia. friday night wagoner chief claimed the russian military had carried out the strike against his fighters. he said he would lead a quote march of justice against his enemies but denied he was carrying out a coup. russia's main security agency

the federal security service or fsb then accuse him of incitement to armed rebellion and issued a warrant for his arrest. wagoner forces cross into southern russia from ukraine entering early saturday. early this morning russian president vladimir putin address the nation and condemned wagoner's actions as a stop in the back against our nation and our country. since then there has been reports of clashes to the north with the british defense ministry reporting that wagoner units appear to be moving towards moscow which has tightened security measures. that is the latest out of russia but it is open forum. your chance to weigh in on any political topic or news topic of

the day. we want to hear from you. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. david in riverside, california on the republican line. caller: good morning, tia. good morning, america. it is pride month. what are democrats and some republicans and big corporations supporting training are western civilization homosexual? been information to greece and ancient rome historically have a large group society that were gay or bisexual. it is not like the race or characteristic that is unchangeable. homosexuality can be learned and schoolrooms are teaching it. there shooting him sexuality as normal -- they are treating

homosexuality as normal. when historically it was taboo in ancient rome. at the heart of it is a misunderstanding of right and wrong. in america come historically 20th-century sexuality was used -- viewed as sexual perversion and not is promoted at schools and companies and hundreds of major companies even chick-fil-a is now a pro-gay company. why would you promote unnatural sexual behavior to children and adults? host: robert in kentucky under independent line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my call is in reference to donald trump and the people who support him, the so-called evangelicals.

mr. trump's want said he had never thought forgiveness for from god because he had never done anything wrong. what i do about teachers of jesus christ is that we all have fallen short of the glory of god but this man said he had never committed awhat sin. my only concern is for america is that if people support a person who claims he has never committed a sin, he admitted to grabbing woman in their private parts and he is not sorry for dad. he admitted having extramarital affair or his wife and he is not sorry. he admitted to all types of things and he is not been asked for forgiveness because he claims he is never sinned. i would think people who follow that type of person -- caps on members -- i have family members and it was not pretty. i would only say anybody who

believes that an follows that is a hypocrite varies in jesus christ name is a cover. host: robert brought up evangelical christians and want to mention the faith and freedom coalition is holding its conference in washington and president trump is scheduled to speak they are tonight. this is from the wall street journal. it says a game a spiritual one upmanship played out friday night as many of the 2024 republican presidential candidates appeared before a crowd of religious activists. all of them are trying to solve a puzzle. how to pull them up evangelical voters away from twice divorced crew talking new yorker who rarely goes to church and it is not known for her ability to quote bible verses, donald trump. so far none of them seem to have figure it out. back to the phone lines. marion calling from grovetown,

georgia the democratic line. what are your thoughts today? caller: thank you for taking my call. i normally do not like to talk about things personal but i going to. when i was first married i got pregnant. at three months i started measuring, blood was everywhere. my husband had to put towels and we went to the emergency room. they didn't and abortion. t --hey did an abortion. i ended up being anemic afterwards and it was a really sad thing. we were really sad about it. i just read and saw and read about a lady who was also went through what i went through but her state because of the law banning abortions, she was sent home with the doctors were worried they could get sued if they treated her. she was he measuring -- she was

him a drink and only until she almost passed out and fainted and almost lost consciousness did they help there. to me this is why to tell the government and other evangelicals to stay out of our lives. we know it is best for ourselves. we do not a religion telling us we need to suffer. i do not understand why republicans want to punish and suffer. they want people to suffer and i did not understand that. host: we appreciate you calling to share your story with us this morning. michelle in staten island, new york on the independent line. caller: yes, hi. good morning. there are so much to talk about. what i want to hit on is the

immigration. i live in new york. this is what i love about new york. everybody is here and it is a beautiful feeling. you can go to different types of neighborhoods. eat different foods and meet different people. i just love the idea of letting everybody in the right way. when my grandparents came in on the vote -- boat the statue of liberty. host: newport, kentucky susan on the republican line. caller:. good morning. i'm calling with a comment about hunter biden. i'm amazed at how he received millions of dollars from foreign

countries and was not able to pay child support so he's kind of a deadbeat dad and he has been accused of tax evasion. i'm assuming that all the millions of dollars that he acquired he must have bought a lot of crack to smoke for that. i pray for him. i hope he does not overdose on the crack. thank you. host: richard on the democratic line calling from missouri. caller: i am calling -- have a couple things here on to talk about. this young lieutenant in the air force to give away the secrets.

then here he got the president having secrets. i'm old enough to remember -- goldstein or goldberg, they gave away secrets about atomic bombs and they held a trial on the and they hung them. they had two kids and they hung them for giving away atomic secrets information. it is the same nation we have then? is this different? on the immigration business, back in older days or to compare for you guys, older days, when the depression was on the hybrid to california. people in california did not want them okies. it turned out they made california at one of the greatest nieces in the world.

host: next up is rena in illinois on the independent line . caller: good morning. it amazes me all the stories i am hearing and listening to regarding homosexuality and the sentiment just call previously. he needs to address the church because the church condoned it with a catholic priest. they have not been prosecuted. the nuts into the man on tv about billions of dollars that have been stolen from covid and i was an essential worker. i know that billions of dollars does not just come from poor people. a lot of rich people and so-called christians of this nation also stole that money. but what you want to talk about america's problems, you better start at home first. we are such hypocrites. we are liars.

we do not spill the truth and it is why the god -- it is why god tested judge this nation. we know we have done wrong and i will try to cover it up. host: martin calling from new york city on the republican line. caller: good morning, c-span. i am an old man. i cannot believe what my beautiful america has turned into. we are now a nation of liars, a nation of thieves, a nation that disrespects every single moral edict that is out there. the way we have come down. we have come down for one reason and one reason only and that is because of the ideology. the ideology is liberalism.

there is nothing liberal about it. it is a fascist movement in the most dangerous movement -- the most dangerous new way to destroy america they came up with is this trains think. it is the very sick ideology. people who think they are men but really women or vice versa need psychiatric care. if you really had compassion, we would get these people help. it is impossible to change woman into a man or vice versa. you cannot do it. if you are a male and you say i am a female. when they take your dna i did not care if you had an operation or what you had, your dna remains male or female. this is a misguided, idiotic

thing but now we're living in a country of idiots. there is too many people -- we are gripped of reason, logic --ripped of logic, reason and facts. host: where in open forum with your chance to weigh in on any political topic of the day. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. clarice calling from middletown, new york on the democratic line. caller: hi. i'm calling because i believe in the melting pot and all immigrants should come to this country if they're looking for an opportunity but i think i think it needs to be systematic.

when you bring them in i believe they should have an immigration security number. i believe you want to work. the message we are giving come in and will give you housing in these things but i did believe that each person who comes to this country wants an opportunity to work. they are viable and can work. i think there is been a system that has -- so when they do come here they are not exploited by other people by paying them five dollars an hour by big corporations and taken advantage of them. they want to support their families. they have a dream to work and be citizens who want to contribute to the country they want to be a part of. when we give without having them work when they do the work it trains us. our social security is drained. our funding gets drained.

we can literally make a system that would allow them to work for what they want, allow them to pay taxes like the rest of us. they want to do that. there is no system to actually have them do. host: poul in exton, pennsylvania on the republican line. caller: hi there. what i call to talk about is that i cannot believe the entire country has come down to two choices for presidency in 2024 election. between trump and biden, i really did not want either of them. we got to come up with something better than that. i wish we would stop spending

all of our time on peripheral issues and maybe get some kind of survey out of their to the american public to figure out what are their top issues that we would like to see our congress, presidents, supreme court spend the time on rather than all these issues that just seem to tear everyone apart. that is all i had to say. thank you for your service here. host: thank you for your call. trevor in wisconsin on the independent line. caller: good morning. trans rights are human's rights. it is nonnegotiable. it is a fact. you have to have that. it is a discussion we need to have. these right-wingers want to do a marone doctrine 2.0 to have

guns? the border shooting everybody who crosses the line. [indiscernible] host: trevor, you are breaking up a little bit. i think we got your point of this morning. roy in wilson creek, washington on the republican line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. what is your comment for us this morning? caller: i'm calling about the american people. the american people need to stand up to take our country back. freedom is the only way to be. we need to save our country. the people need to stand up and make the government back up. everything going on in our country, we are ruining our nation. it is crazy. that is all i got to say. host: tina as he, north carolina

on the democratic line. caller: hi. good morning. thank you for taking my call. i thought y'all have blackballed me one time. [laughter] i wish everyone would give our president the respect of his title. they were called from president before they will by and that goes for msnbc, your group, cnn. he needs to be caught what he is. president biden. he always these to be called because that is his title. -- that is what he needs to be called because that is his title. also the student loans. i still not quite understanding that situation but all the money that has been given out i did not understand why they would

not help america's people in that way. we do not get that much help anyway. and social security they took money from social security and never give it back but they still want to cut it out. that is not right. there's so much stuff that is happening that is not good. another thing i want to make a point to people. trump said if he ever got president, he wanted to run united states like putin runs russia. they are good friends and that is exactly what he wants to do. i do not want to be in no kind of situation like a bat. -- situation like that. host: angela from arkansas on

the independent line. caller: hello? host: yes, you are on. caller: hi. i have a condition. i never spoke about this. i can carry children but the children would not develop as the proxy develop so i am carrying -- the teacher would not develop. i had to deliver children who had died in hospital and i did this because of the cultural and social pressure that was put on me as a young woman to go through it. 25 years later i'm still filling these issues. i have a lot of friends who are

on both sides of this. my question to my republican friends, my republican sisters and brothers, how long do you need me to suffer? if you would give me a date on how long you need me to suffer, i would do it but please do not put this -- it is not right. it is not fair. you do not know what you're doing because. how long do you need us to sell woman? that is my question -- how long do you need us to suffer, us being woman back that is my question. host: thank you for sharing your story. carry in tacoma, washington calling on the republican line. caller: good morning. i wanted to make a comment that i listened off and on yesterday shall on june 23 -- show on june

23 and the last half hour had brad sherman on and i was listening to that whole thing. he's a democrat from california and i was listening to all the colors and i was surprise -- callers and i was surprised and i rewind it and listened and making this comment since it is open forum that it would democratic caller commandment caller, mccright, independent, independent, democrat. for democrats and for independents and then finally a republican got on, rob and he was told to make it quick because the house was gaveling in. early that morning. i think it'll be nice -- i find it is often and i'm surprised at the order of callers that are taken and at this time i rewound and listened and i was like i was right.

no republicans until the last absolute minute. it would be nice if he made it more fair. host: we take because in order they are received mostly. --it would calls in the order te received mostly. what we try to mix it up. if you see her stretch where they are not either callers from any line does cause another coming in yet. we do take calls generally in the order they were received. we received a republican call that we will move it up to ensure we have a good mixture. that is going to do it for us today. i do want to remind you today markthe first anniversary of the supreme court dobb's decision to overturn roe v. wade . a former vice president mike pence will join others for a pro-life rally at the lincoln memorial. you can watch live coverage this moing beginning at 10:30 eastern on c-span, c-span now,

or's ally at c-span.org -- or online at c-span.org. "washington journal" will be back tomorrow at 7 a.m. eastern. enjoy your day. >> the latest issues in government, politics, public policy. coming up on sunday morning, we will talk about 2024 and other political news of the day.

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