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coming up, we will take your calls and comments. timothy had talks about religious, social and cultural issues in campaign 2024 and cornell west joins us to discuss why he's running, his platform, and challenges facing his candidacy. washington journal is next. host: elections have always had consequences but also increasingly critics, conspiracy theories and court cases.

donald trump's falsehoods about the 2020 elections have not stopped him from claiming they are true. ahead of 2024, congressional races, the supreme court has made several rulings on state maps that will likely come into play in the next elections. what does this mean to trust in our elections? it is wednesday, june 28, 2023. our opening question for you is do you trust the american election system? if you would like to take part in the conversation, republicans, please use (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents and others, (202) 748-8002. you can send a text to (202) 748-8003 and include your name and where you are texting from. on facebook, we will look for

your posts, also on twitter and instagram. you can do that by using @cspanwj. it is those supreme court cases, one ruling in particular, that is the genesis about a broader ruling about trust in elections. from the hill, there morning report, supreme court rejects conservative election victory. the organization scotus blog also covering that. more broadly, on the issue of trust in elections is our conversation this morning. this is from uc san diego. after the 2022 elections, they surveyed americans. some of what they found includes overall 61% trust some or a lot the american election system.

democrats are me an twice as likely as republicans. republicans have -- are five times more likelyo suspect signict fraud. people have more faith in the integrity of their own state's elections than other states. 74% ofeoe with advanced degrees trust election rul versus 43% of those who do not hold a high school degree. a couple more points on this survey on trust in the 2022 midterms. 74% of older people and people living in the northeast report greater levels of trust, asian americans, black americans, higher levels than whites or latinos. 59%. to help us understand the ruling from yesterday at the supreme court, we are joined by a state political reporter for politico.

welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: your headline, how the supreme court's decision on election law could shut the door on future electors. tell us about the case the justices ruled on. guest: broadly, the case was about a kind of esoteric idea called the independent state legislature theory, a theory of advanced by some conservative attorneys and other legal scholars arguing that state judiciaries had -- if a state passed an election law, the state judiciary had no role to be a check. the u.s. supreme court pretty resoundingly rejected that yesterday in a 6-3 decision written by chief justice roberts joined by the liberal justices

and justice kavanaugh and justice barrett. this eliminates independent state legislature theory from any sort of credence in federal courts and that will see probably the biggest effect in redistricting, where most of the election relitigation, at least at the state level, has happened. it cuts toward the presidential election as well with former president trump's fake electors in 2020. part of the basis behind that was the independent state legislature theory. it was trump's allies advancing the idea that state legislatures have unilateral power to select their electors. they did not directly address electors. there was about the elections clause in the constitution -- it was about the elections clause in the constitution but the two are closely related.

most people rejected it in 2020 anyway. host: what if any result will this have in north carolina in terms of their legislative map in that state? guest: north carolina is where this case originated, but it will not have any practical effect there. it's kind of a confusing back-and-forth but the basis is that, originally, liberal leaning -- a liberal leaning north carolina state supreme court said it was a partisan gerrymander. they challenged that. the partisan balance of the north carolina supreme court flippe in the meantime, so they have thrown out their own ruling and said we will not adjudicate partisan gerrymandering. so the upshot for democrats is

they already lost in the north carolina supreme court. this ruling is kind of a bitter taste. they won in the federal supreme court and this cuts off the theory nationally but in north carolina the maps have not been redrawn yet. but it's heavily accepted to tilt towards republicans -- heavily expected to tilt towards republicans and now that north carolina supreme court have said they will not rule on partisan gerrymandering. host: chief justice roberts, his opinion does not lay out what happens when state courts do go too far, overstep their bounds. there is no prescribed resolution from this supreme court in this ruling. guest: i have heard people describe it as a light independent state legislature theory because the chief justice and his colleagues ruled that state supreme court's can

adjudicate election laws. with the supreme court serving as a backstop against particularly reckless state supreme courts. there has been some handwringing among legal scholars about what does that mean? nobody really knows. the next federal challenge will happen. there is no question this will

come up in federal court again. host: do you think the ruling does effectively shut out the concept of fake electors? guest: i believe so and many legal experts do. some proponents of former president trump's idea, which most people did not accept in 2020, so the door was already shut most of the way, but even some of trump's allies, like john eastman, argued the door was not entirely closed, but he and other proponents also went on television. most mainstream legal experts of all persuasions pretty handily

rejected this idea for these fake electors years ago anyway, but this in my mind closes the door even further. if it was not closed already, it certainly is now. host: alabama governor kay ivey is calling the legislature back into session to address an issue created by the supreme court ruling on the legislative districts in that state. are we seeing a shift in the court in terms of their view of gerrymandering state legislative districts and other issues like this? guest: that goes back to a decision earlier this month when the court surprisingly in my mind and many other people's minds ruled. so they will have to redraw these congressional lines. i don't think it is so much a shift because it's important to note with yesterday's case and

the case earlier this month, it was not expanding protections. it was keeping the status quo. but is notable that the chief justice, historically hostile to the voting rights act, in both cases this month, ruled the way he did. interesting to see that protections under the voting rights act that -- certainly chief justice roberts has displayed outward hostility towards the voting rights act and maybe -- host: you can read his reporting this morning with his colleagues at politico.com. zach, thank you for dropping by. our broader question is do you trust the american election system? we will read more about that

court case and other election related news and stories this morning. it's (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, independents and others, it is (202) 748-8002. let's go to frederick, maryland. justin is on the independent line. good morning. caller: i listened to what you spoke about and what nikki haley said today. she basically told the american people china and the ponzi scheme businesses basically have access to senators and congressmen because they can lobby. you asked the question of should we trust the election process, which is the process to where we have an electoral college, so not one vote for everyone who votes. you have fake electors that trump is going to put in there

to act as if they were electors. i feel that our country is in a very downturn to where -- i don't think the american people know what to believe anymore. i think with all this stuff going on and, i will answer your question again, do you trust the election process? as a libertarian, absolutely not, and i think a lot of people feel that way. host: is part of that mistrust, as a libertarian, the fact that it is difficult to get a candidate on the ballot? there are two and practically in maryland one dominant party. caller: it is hilarious. i went to a convention and democrats were there and the

first thing they assumed was i am a democrat because i am a person of color. they could care less about anything i had to say. and northwest of frederick, we can see the liberal -- people kind of choosing their area and changing the way of life and stuff like that with their ideology, but this is america. we are supposed to debate, talk about our differences, find a middle ground but now you have to be on one side or the other end if you are not you are irrelevant. host: to michael on our independent line in pittsburgh. welcome. caller: thank you for taking my call and i love c-span. i think it's a great question and i think in pennsylvania we have real problems.

pennsylvania is one of the battleground states. in the 2020 elections, i think it was very instrumental in deciding the vote, and i don't think the pennsylvania elections are fair. end of the results were determined -- and the results were determined in states like wisconsin where there were problems with voting. pennsylvania's voting system has been corrupted by the cities, as in all these states where you don't have access to poll watchers and things like that. they have no control over what happens in these cities whether it's allegheny county or the counties around philadelphia or philadelphia and montgomery county. these counties are the ones that

are full of fraud and they are the ones that determine the elections because of their population. if you are in allegheny -- in allegheny county, they said, for the first time ever, we got more votes than philadelphia, which had a much higher population, much higher democratic population, but yet allegheny county won out, which just does not compute that that should be possible. i don't think they got more votes, just more ballots, and they just put ballots on steroids because you have people that are voting by mail, and now they have this ballot harvesting, so actually, things have gotten worse in pennsylvania instead of better. host: wayne is on the independent line in chesterfield, virginia. do you trust the american election system? caller: i use to but lately it's

getting out of hand. you have the poll you had on earlier in the show showing the educated people trust the system. that is because they research. a lot of them are influenced by fox news and newsmax and they are hearing lies every day and they don't want to research and find out what the truth is. some of them do not care what the truth is. with the supreme court, you have thomas and several of them up there. thomas is compromised. he should retire or be impeached . other think it will be fair again -- i don't think it will be fair again. this news thing with fox news.

the fcc regulates these companies. i thought that if they told lies they would shut them down. evidently they don't. to have a fair election, you need decent candidates to run. we don't have them now. both sides. joe is too old and trump is a thief and a crook. host: so far, about human. we are asking a broader question . the ruling yesterday by the supreme court, the headline, justices back role state courts, rejects gop idea that legislatures can redraw federal districts unchecked.

there supreme court reporter writes that the majority opinion deals a blow to republican aspirations to sideline state courts from overseeing federal elections. it comes as a relief to democrats and some election reformers who for months feared the conservative leaning court might deal them a loss that could allow unlimited gerrymandering by partisans. that from the wall street journal. new york city in new york. tony is in our -- is on our democrats line. good morning. go ahead. caller: i am a registered democrat but i am trying to unregistered. i think our election system is rooted in boorish walk -- in bo urgeoise democracy. in stamford, connecticut,

there's legislation to let businesses vote. we have a judicial body that is not reflecting the needs of the people, some of which have sexual assault allegations, conflict of interest, and are lobbied. i don't trust our electoral system and i think we should support communist and socialist lines of voting, whether that be a whole peoples process, direct democracy. host: what indication is there that that system would be any less corrupt than how we are currently? caller: china's democracy -- they have much larger turnout. there was a harvard university study that found china's -- that people had satisfaction with

their political and party system. it was around 90%. i forget the number here but definitely not as high by a longshot. we have not even hit 75% turnout. cuba for one of their referendums recently had a turnout of around 77%. host: in your view, that shows the system is working in terms of the validity of those votes? caller: absolutely yes. again, i think we have to focus -- again, we can see that our congress is not effective.

meanwhile, what was it? most legislation does not even make it to a full vote at the federal level. not sure about local elections. host: let's hear from steve, calling from anaheim, california. go ahead. caller: i don't think it's credible. what do we know? we know that illegals are voting in our elections through the voter vehicle act. i am still getting multiple ballots sent to me every election. we know that we have illegal votes coming from overseas thanks to newsom who used the voter rolls to dish out relief

money we lost $9 billion. most of the money went to china, russia and exit. now they vote for you. he put down your paper ballot at your local collection agency. i cannot remove the name now -- i cannot remember the name now but they tell you you have already voted and your vote is uncontested, so they basically don't have to gerrymander the districts. they can basically just contest your vote at the poll. by the time they get down to figuring out if that's really you, the election is over. so the system is messed up. that is it for me, bill. host: do you trust the american election system? the lines are (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 free democrats, and -- (202) 748-8000

for democrats, and for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. clarence thomas one of those in the minority in the supme court ruling yesterday. part of his opinion reads that the majority opens a new field for bush style controversies, talking about the 2000 controversy, ote election law, and a far more uncertain one. i would hesitate before committing the federal judiciary to this uncertain path. similar issues raised in the washington post. there piece. they write some election law experts had similar concerns. this apparent new test would give great power to federal courts and especially the u.s. supreme court. second-guessing state court rulings in sensitive

cases, says an election law expert, will allow for a second bite of the apple potentially in cases involving the outcome of presidential elections. the piece says others say that prediction is pessimistic. one person who argued the case for one set of plaintiffs at the supreme court he took tuesday's decision to mean a refusal to resist with the integrity -- free to monitor partisan gerrymandering were not, a role for which the supreme court said federal courts lack authority. the ruling seems to accept as established the corpuscular ruling in 2015 that the elections clause does not bar state voters from turning over redistricting decisions to an

independent commission. jim is in north carolina. go ahead. democrats line. caller: it is asheboro, north carolina. host: my apologies. go ahead. turn down your volume, by the way. caller: you are off. i am a longtime poll worker. i listen to these people that call in and talk about all the extra ballots and stuff. that is absolute nonsense. when you go in to vote, you have to get what we referred to as an atv, an authorization to vote, before you get your ballot. at the end of the day, the atv's

and the ballots have to match up. so there's no such thing as getting extra ballots cast at the polling place. what people apparently are confusing is election fraud and voter fraud. there is little to none voter fraud. there is some election fraud, but mostly through restricting people from voting. republicans do not want a free and fair election. they want an election where they have an edge. the electoral college gives them that edge. so, you know, to not trust -- if you don't trust the elections,

you can pretty well blame people who want to manipulate elections in the voting place. host: when you hear people say they get multiple ballots, it's common practice that people will get mailed sample ballots. so you, and you have a sample ballot that looks like a regular ballot but it allows you to check off ahead of time what you think you want to vote for. often the parties will do that. do they do that kind of thing in north carolina? caller: yeah. host: the other thing is too that that decision yesterday that had a lot to do with the redistricting there in north carolina. what was your thought on the ruling? caller: it was no help for north carolina. our state supreme court had

already ruled that the legislature could pretty much do what they want and we are heavily gerrymandered. being a democrat, i consider it unfair. host: thank you for your perspective. the hill headline, supreme court rejects conservative election theory. they write state legislatures do not have unchecked power when drawing districts. state courts can intervene in the case of gerrymandered districts and review approaches to federal election rules. ronald calling from new hampshire on the independent line. caller: good morning, bill. thank you for taking my call. the system is not working.

i think we should have a revolution, a nonviolent political revolution and get rid of the regime altogether and start over, do a constitution 3.0. that will not happen anytime soon probably. i think to fix the election system, there's a simple way to make it more transparent, and that would be to take a picture of every ballot when somebody casts it, have every ballot with a number, and give everyone who casts a valid a receipt. take a picture of every ballot and post all the pictures of the ballots online so anyone can look it up. post every picture of every ballot cast in the united states in a file about the size of a video movie that you stream online. it is not big at all. they can technically do that very simply.

post a picture of every ballot cast and every person in the country could look up and verify that their ballot got counted and every person in the country could look in the file and count the ballots for themselves if they wanted to. it would be completely transparent. so that is my suggestion. i don't think the guys in the current regime would consider something like that. they would not be able to game the system. maybe cornell west can put that into his platform for his election. host: cornell west, the green party candidate, will be our guest later. you mentioned a revolution in terms of the constitution. you said constitution 3.0. what would you like to see to specifically address, more specifically address, how elections are conducted in the u.s.? caller: there are so many things that need to be fixed in the constitution.

there has not been a new amendment to the constitution, i mean newly written to the constitution, since the 26th amendment. the 27th amendment is over 200 years old. the 26th amendment was to lower the voting age to 18 and that is it. the 26th amendment was what, 150 years ago? we are using a constitution that does not work. they will not let us amend it. the laws are being made by guys in robes in washington who are not elected and are in there for life. we don't have anything close to a democracy. it needs to be redone. host: let's go to hawaii, honolulu. go ahead. caller: good morning. you cannot trust the system but

i believe these elected officials -- it is crazy how we elect these people but they have their own agenda. i still believe the election can be trusted. host: and what is the major reason for that? caller: we do have honest people that help to run the elections. like that woman and her daughter, the one that trump just threw their name out? we have honest people that try their best. i believe that. host: thanks for weighing in. louisiana, republican line. go ahead. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i believe -- i don't know.

i don't really trust the political system. first of all, i might sound crazy, but i'm just a common citizen. i'm a united states citizen and i value my citizenship. first of all, i believe we should not have any parties, no republican party, no democratic party, no communist party, none of that. no delegate votes. why should one small group of people like delaware control such a large number of people in the electoral system? i don't believe that should be at all. i am a united states citizen. i joined the military to fight for my country. one united states citizen, one proof of citizenship, and one vote. that would be too simple. host: melvin, do you have to show an id at the polls in

louisiana? caller: i believe yes. i showed my registration card, which is my id. i think we need to show a driver's license. i'm a little bit up in age. host: that's all right. minneapolis is next. clarice is on the independent line. clarice, go ahead. caller: good morning there good morning there. hello there. i'm thankful to be on. looking forward to seeing dr. west coming up. i don't really trust the system too much. as much as you can under capitalism. we should have a universal mail-in ballot system. when you turn 18, you get a ballots into you, you can vote for the president, send it in the mail.

that's the easiest way. it can generate wealth for the post office since they are struggling. it would help to have a universal mail-in ballot system. i think we could do better if we just -- corporations right now, they are trying to get them to vote now. i don't think that's right. i think it is one person, one vote, and we should get rid of the electoral college. i live in a nice state but i know people who live in montana and they don't get a vote because the electoral college cancels them out. host: let me ask -- are you still there/ we lost clarice.

we are asking you about your trust in the american election system. (202) 748-8001 is the line for republicans, (202) 748-8000 four democrats, and others, (202) 748-8002. the result of another case, another ruling by the supreme court, is this story at al.com. governor kay ivey called special session to redraw alabama's congressional districts. governor ivey on tuesday called a special session of the legislature to redraw alabama's congressional district map. the supreme court ruled on june 8 that the current map, with one majority black district out of seven, likely violates the voting rights act. a three-judge federal court has given the state until july 20 12 dry new map. the governor announced the session will begin july 17. let's hear from timothy in apple

valley, california, democrats line. caller: thank you. are you there? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i am 73 years old, served in the vietnam war, and i'm a disabled vet. i never had a problem with the electoral system. i did not doubt it entailed donald -- it until donald trump came in. i don't think there's anything wrong with it. i love it. i know how it works. they tried to prove something was wrong. nothing was wrong. ok. so i trust the system. thank you. host: jennifer in new jersey, republican line. do you trust the elections system? caller: i trust it to a point. i don't care for it to be federalized. i agree the states should

determine the manner and the day and all of that for the election. if you go back to the 2020 election, and because of covid, some of the state legislatures were not approached with, you know -- they did not go through the proper channels. they changed election laws in a bunch of states, pennsylvania one of them, michigan, wisconsin, in order to accommodate the mail-in ballots. they probably did that in new jersey. i have not checked up on all of that, but they did not go through the state legislature to change the election law, and when you do that, it makes the election illegal, like, illegitimate. it's an illegitimate election if you did not change the laws the way you should have. so i think that that is the big gripe from 2020. it was not that trump put ideas in our heads.

the states did not use the proper protocols. host: jennifer, thank you for the call. in other news, the headline from the associated press, biden is eager to run on the economy, bidenomics. the president today making what is being billed as a major economic address in chicago. we will have coverage of that later on c-span. lael brainard spoke yesterday at the white house previewing that speech and giving her assessment of the administration's fight against inflation. [video clip] >> where we are on the economy, what has been interesting is there have been these repeated predictions, and yet what we have seen in the actual data has been a lot of resilience, so again, we are continuing to see strong labor market, low unemployment. we have actually seen that stretch of a strong labor market

improve due to the very large increase we have seen in participation of working age americans and so there are reasons to think that we are going to continue to see resilience against the backdrop of what we have referred to as more stable economic growth. host: that speech in chicago, the economic speech by president biden, coming up today. we will have live coverage at 1 p.m. eastern on c-span. we will show it on our mobile app and streaming it live at c-span.org. our question is about your trust in the american election system, getting reaction to yesterday's ruling by the supreme court. one of those weighing in, former president obama, who tweeted this after the ruling, "the supreme court rejected the french independent state legislature theory that threatened to upend our micro c

and -- our democracy and system of checks and balances." from twitter, yes. joe says how come before trump we never had a voting problem? we used to trust each other and also what one con artist has done to us all. gordon trusts the system. our system decentralizes control of elections, makes it nearly impossible to commit fraud on a scale sufficient to change a national outcome. annie says she trusts her election system in colorado. bobby is in georgia on the independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i don't trust the system. i think we could improve it by using fingerprints. that way we could see who is who. you cannot fake a fingerprint. host: ok.

ed in maryland on our democrats line. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: yes. i trust the voting system. i am 75 years old. i have been voting since i was 18 and we never had problems with voter fraud until donald trump came into the system and he's been complaining about it. he said, if he said, if you lost, it was rigged. there have not been any problems. he would not concede in he's made a mockery of this country. that is my thought. host: we go to betty calling from wheeling, illinois, independent caller. caller: good morning. just want to say, first of all, if you don't trust it, volunteer. that is what i did. how are you going to get a bunch of volunteers who don't show up

to count ballots, to do fingerprints? come on. we barely get enough people anyway. i did not vote until 2016 for the first time. and my mother, the only thing she didn't like the electoral college and that is the thing i think we should get rid of. otherwise, volunteer. you will see nice people, good people, everybody does their job . that is saying you don't trust your fellow american citizens to do their job properly. host: betty, you did not vote until 2016 and you are now a poll worker. what prompted this volunteer spirit of yours? caller: i did not want trump. i hated trump since the 1990's so i did not want him in. that was the first time i voted. chagrined to my marine husband.

he was upset with me. volunteer, people. get in there and volunteer. we had a 70-year-old retired priest volunteer. host: thanks for sharing your experience working the polls, betty. the man who heads the elections in georgia is the secretary of state, brad raffensperger. this is from the atlanta journal-constitution. raffensperger will talk to feds in trump probe. he will be interviewed this week by federal prosecutors investigating efforts by donald trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 election. the georgia secretary of state's cooperation with the probe of the u.s. justice department's special counsel, jack smith, was reported by the washington post, confirmed by the atlanta journal-constitution by a top raffensperger aide. he will meet prosecutors later

today. decatur, alabama is next. go ahead, anthony. caller: ok. i have heard a couple of collars mentioned the electoral college. the only thing i can say is that i will not trust a presidential election if the electoral college is abolished, and here's why. the early framers of the constitution knew that is new states joined -- that as new states joined they would be far less populous than the established states. they wanted them to feel that they were part of it so they invented the electoral college to help that. if you abolished the electoral college now, than the president will be elected by the northeast and the left coast and you are not going to have a president of the united states. you will have a president of the population. that is wrong. he is supposed to be president of all the states.

so i do trust the elections in my state because i vote every time and when i vote i have to show my drivers license and i don't see anything wrong with that. if we are going to allow non-american citizens to vote in american elections, then you will have a heckuva time counting the absentee ballots coming in from iran, china and russia. so i think you need to have a law that says you must prove citizenship to vote in american elections. host: anthony, back to your point on the electoral college, what is your view of the focus on the electoral college in terms of the key states, the swing states that the candidates focus on, the ones with the biggest numbers of voters and the way those states go has often determined the election, florida, pennsylvania, michigan,

wisconsin, arizona. so there is a real focus on the electoral college in that instance. caller: there is a purpose on it because they have to. you will notice the states you mentioned are mostly the most populous. i am saying, in my state, we are not one of the populace states, and if you get rid of it, they might not even bother to come here, campaign here, anything. they will not focus on us and i think they need to focus on all americans, not just some. host: appreciate your call. here's where we stand on our twitter pole. do you trust the american election process? 51.5 percent saying yes, 44% saying no. you can weigh in at @cspanwj on twitter. let's go to farmington hills, michigan. chuck on the independent line.

welcome. caller: thank you for taking my call. all i can say is that in my experience voting i have had one time that my vote was not counted, 1960 when i was in the military, but the second thing i would like to talk about is, when i vote at our local voting station, i must show my drivers license and my voter registration card. i am a u.s. citizen and i believe that only u.s. citizens should vote and as far as absentee ballots are concerned we have many in michigan that came up counted or uncounted and that really, really says to me we really have a problem. thank you for taking my call and god bless america. host: this is the lead opinion

from the wall street journal. their editorial view. the supreme court selections model. so much for the radical supreme court, they write. a 6-3 majority tuesday rejected the argument advanced by some conservatives that the u.s. constitution bars state courts from reviewing congressional maps and voting laws. it is not the victory progressives claim but it will lead to more election law controversies. they say the chief justice stresses that state courts do not have free reign and this court has an obligation to ensure that state court interpretations of state law do not evade federal law, so state court election rulings will be subject to u.s. supreme court review. the wall street journal says that the majority declined to adopt a standard for reviewing such state court decisions. the questions presented in this area are complex and context specific, the chief writes.

we only hold that state courts may not transgress ordinary bounds of judicial review such that they arrogate themselves the power vested in state legislatures to regulate federal elections. the wall street journal asks what does ordinary bounds mean? perhaps, as with pornography, the court will know it when it sees it. they conclude by saying that ruling yesterday is the third in three weeks that shows the supposedly partisan justices tiptoeing around election law almost certainly to the benefit of democrats. in allan versus milligan, the court struck down a gop legislative map because it did not include a second majority black district. monday, the court declined to review an order ruling that louisiana's congressional map be redrawn to add another majority black district. this encourages more lawsuits using section ii of the voting rights act to strike down gop

here matters. in louisiana on the independent line, jason in shreveport. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would say i trust -- excuse me -- i trust the american election system that it will never really change anything. we have cases like citizens united, the electoral college, which will forever give undue sway in our elections to states like -- you know, not to single out north dakota, you know, but states with minuscule

populations who will receive more sway in the election than their population suggests they should. it is one of the reasons i and many people say we do not live in a democracy, and frankly we should seek to live in a democracy. on the subject of skepticism about the election system, i think we have a few people to blame for the widespread panic when it comes to u.s. elections. first and foremost is mr. trump himself, who, you know, started crying about election rigging as soon as he thought he might lose without any foundation and continued to cry that the election was rigged because he lost and then you have, you

know, outlets like fox news, who just got demolished by dominion for their, you know, profligate conspiracy theories about dominion voting systems, and one person who i really, really cannot stand, dinesh desousa, who put out that absolute garbage, 2000 mules, where he's, you know, spreading conspiracy theories about mail-in ballots at the height of the pandemic and, you know, this is a man who has been convicted of federal campaign finance violations and had to be pardoned by fellow conspiracy theorist donald trump. desousa is a despicable person and his "documentary" i think

has done so much damage to americans who have undergone conservative brain rot. host: all right, jason. we will go to gina in new jersey next. republican collar. go ahead. caller: i would like to make a comment on the topic here. the question is that the american people cannot handle the truth of what happened at the -- and the truth of it is that they failed to say to the public that obama is responsible for most of this rigging the election, and it's true. host: how so? caller: donald trump did not make this up, ok? the people in this country call

themselves americans. i don't believe that they are americans. they want to live in this country. you have to act like an american and you better tell the truth like an american, but that's not true, ok? host: you say the former president, barack obama, was responsible for rigging the election. how so? caller: not himself rigging the election but he had many people -- he's been to every state during the campaigning and he's been to every state, ok, to get people that are not even born in this country to get them to vote for democrats, ok? it's a known fact. it's in the news journals. it's all over the place. host: this is from nbc. their headline, biggest fraud in a generation, the looting of the covid relief plan known as ppp. they write they bought

lamborghinis, ferraris and bentleys and teslas, of course, lots of teslas, in what prosecutors are calling one of the largest frauds in history, the theft of taxpayer money during the pandemic. they could not resist purchasing luxury automobiles. they came into their riches by participating in what experts say is a theft of as much as $80 million, about 10% of the $800 billion handed out in the covid relief plan known as the paycheck protection program or ppp on top of the money stolen from the covid relief unemployment program, at least half taken by fraudsters, and another 80 billion for a separate program. they write the prevalence of

fraud has been known for some time but the scope and its disturbing implications are only now becoming clear. read more at nbc news.com. in fairfax, virginia, democrats line. patrick, good morning. guest: thank you -- caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to get back to do i trust the voting system? i do. go ahead and volunteer and you will see how things work. i'm sure everyone is honest. every time there's a vote there will be a few here and there that are not legit but overall the voting system -- i'm happy with it. host: a couple comments on

twitter, this one from jose. it says i do not trust it at all, especially with the lack of voter id requirements. this one says we need states and cities to be in charge of our voting decisions. stop micromanaging issues they have no control over, no business getting involved in. daniel is on the independent line in germantown, maryland. caller: i admit i'm having some difficulty with trying to parse the difference between trusting the electoral system and the political parties. i don't trust the political parties and i believe that they both use whatever means, whether that is the law, whether that is different media tactics, whether that's, you know, paying attention or not paying attention to issues in order to

generate whatever momentum they need or stifle whatever competition they may have in order to hold onto power, in order to keep things the same. i don't think that if we were to have a corrected electoral system, whatever that may happen to mean, that would lead to trust in the electoral system because that's not leading to trust in the political parties. there needs to be a fundamental reformation of american politics, government, and society. thank you for this opportunity. host: onto chuck on the republican line, calling from south carolina. caller: good morning. the biggest problem we have with elections is they don't teach

physics in high school. they say the time and manner are set by state legislatures, but the liberal media will try to demonize that, but that's what the constitution says. it says congress has the right to make some adjustments to that. i don't have a problem with that. what i have a problem with it is dealing with people whose study of politics started with donald trump and they have no foundation so they don't have an

idea of a country and if you try to talk to them they will yell at you, scream at you and call you names and pretty quick you are in an emotional screaming match. host: thank you for the call and the miniature civics lesson. still ahead, up next, faith and freedom coalition executive director timothy head is our guest, talking about his group's role in 2024. later in the program, cornell west will be with us. he will be talking about his bid for president, why he's running, and the challenges he faces as the third-party candidate.

>> american history tv, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. july marks the 160th anniversary of the battle of gettysburg. saturday, the gettysburg college's civil war institute hosts its annual conference. topics include generals and confederate starvation parties and the gettysburg battlefield guide and others give insight on how weather impacted this battle. on the presidency, historians re-examine the second edition of the 1999 book abraham lincoln: redeemer president, a reflection on his thinking at the debate of the time.

watch online. in 1814, francis scott key wrote a song that would go on to become the national anthem of the united states. sunday, musicology and american culture professor mark plague discusses his book, oh say, can you hear, about the impact of the star-spangled banner. >> one of the insights or beliefs about the song is that it's a living document. it's not a frozen icon. it is not something that is static. it is constantly changing. it is alive and it's brought to life in performance by people like jimi hendrix, but every time we sing the song, we elevate the question and the tension and the crisis and the hope that is in that song a new.

>> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on q&a. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our c-span now have. >> washington journal continues. host: with us is timothy head, executive director of the faith and freedom coalition, here to talk about religion and social issues in the campaign and the recent conference your organization held. welcome to washington journal. guest: thank you for having me. you have done a great job covering the events over the weekend. plenty to talk about. host: who is in this? who makes up this coalition? guest: we have at this point about 24 different state chapters. our national organization is based in atlanta.

we have these chapters around the southeast and midwest. it's kind of a collection or coalition of various state players that work in the legislature. host: what is the mission? guest: our goal is to mobilize and educate people of faith. we work a lot with evangelicals and what we call faithful catholics, try to mobilize them, make them the most effective citizens they can be, and work in congress and in state legislatures to champion those values in public policy. host: your conference wrapped up in washington over the weekend. a number of the republican presidential candidates spoke there or attended there. give us your take away from the weekend. guest: i think some people are little bit allergic to full-bodied competition and full-body contact in competition but we think it's a healthy

thing for there to be. i think there are 13 or 14 declared presidential candidates, 12 of them with us at the conference over the weekend, and we heard different perspectives and different articulations of social values that are animating american conservative voters now. some of them well-known, some of them lesser-known. several senators and congressmen as well. about 12 of those have signed up for the bid. host: a number of media outlets reporting the favorite there, no surprise, was the former president. still resonating with voters of faith, with evangelicals in particular. guest: he clearly has a resounding platform he can talk from. it was aspirational.

will he do a lot of those things in 17 through 20? he talked a lot about promises made, promises kept, and it was kind of another round of those kinds of things, but also talking about, if he were reelected, once he got into office, new projects that he would take on. host: will the coalition come out in favor of a candidate? guest: as an organization, we don't endorse in primaries or generals. we think of ourselves more like matchmakers. our job is to introduce candidates to voters and voters to candidates and let the chips fall where they may. that is one of the reasons why 12 candidates showed up, because all of them felt like they were going to get a fair shake, similar amounts of time on stage, doing our best to paint

all of them in the most positive light, kind of wind them up and let them go. president trump was certainly one of those. host: 15 months or so to the next election. our issues starting to develop, interest to your coalition, what would you say are the top couple of issues people are talking about? guest: i think they are evergreen questions, similar to the dobbs decision. the one-year anniversary fell on saturday, in the middle of our conference, and that was a lively conversation for sure, but you choice is a question that is a state question but it is still top of mind for parents , definitely, suburban moms that are dealing with educational kind of drift coming out of 2020 and 2021. the social elements right now

with public schooling. more and more people are turning to private schooling, so that is a major issue. 12 states they see or have dealt significantly with education and things of that nature. those are top of mind issues. host: we welcome listeners to call with questions for the executive director of the faith and freedom coalition. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8000 for democrats. 202-748-8002 for independents. on the dobbs decision, you had a piece published "a year after dobbs, it is time to fight harder and smarter." what do you want to see after the decision overturning roe v. wade? guest: the top of line questions

or responses tend to be more like 30,000 foot, but i think that we have seen granular approaches across the country. the question rises and falls on gestational limits, the number of weeks somebody could have an abortion, angst -- things of that nature. states, 14 of them have moved is zero-based plea, but i think that funding is a question. and what we were to as alternatives to abortion, adoption tax credit for families that cannot have children but would love to adopt. as more women are having children, we have to think proactive blake -- proactively and compassionately about how we can have excellent care prebirth and post birth.

and how do we care for these children that are newly being introduced into america. host: states that have stricter abortion laws, are we seeing improved access to women's health care or adoption options and other programs like this? guest: yes, texas has been a leader on these ends of policies, as well as funding mechanisms. even this year, a couple months ago, they expanded funding with $200 million a year for either adoption services, again for little ones, or post maternity care for mothers. i think that is encouraging. and parenting classes. new mothers and adopt mothers -- adoptive mothers.

we are seeing, i would call it an imaginative programs and policies taking shape, not just the binary have a child or do not have a child and leave it at that. states are starting to contemplate the individuality of other approaches. host: i want to take another view on the dobbs decision. this one from, harris -- kamala harris. [video clip] >> many of you know i started my career as a prosecutor protecting women and children, who were the subject of violence. it's immoral that so-called leaders would not understand and have some compassion for what those exceptions should be.

some of the laws are banning at or before six weeks. the right to have an abortion. now, what most of us here know his many women do not even know they are pregnant six weeks -- that many women do not even know why they are pregnant at weeks. wished -- six weeks. which tells us these politicians do not get it. they do not get it. [applause] and next week, over-ruling the will of the people, north carolina will be the latest state with an extreme ban, in spite of the best efforts of the governor. host: the vice president said that dobbs overruled the will of the people.

guest: i'm intrigued see that poll. ironically, in 1973 when the roe decision came out originally, th e country was about 70% pro-life -- or 70% pro-choice. and ironically in 2018, 2019, polling had it looked, 69% pro-life with the exception that she might have been alluding to, rape, incest and life of the mother. while d.c. and new york city might be having polls she supports but the rest of the country is in line with what most states want to do. host: would you support something that pence -- that mik e pence is calling for, a

federal 15 week ban? guest: there has been a conversation on teen weeks -- on 15 weeks. our pragmatic approach, any bill will need 60 votes in the senate to make it. it is a healthy conversation to talk about 12 weeks, six weeks, teen weeks -- 15 weeks. i do not see anything like happening anytime soon. we've been toggling around 49, 51, 52 in the u.s. senate, and i think that will be the case going forward. host: let me ask you politically about mike pence. a group like yours should be a real hope for an evangelical like mike pence. how was he received? guest: the encouraging thing for me is he did a great job on

stage during that time and facilitated questions later on, that he was able to engage with some attendees. people love and respect him personally and politically. and i think that the presidential race itself is every man for himself, so we will see what happens over the next nine or 12 months. but i mentioned earlier, from our perspective we want to see 1000 flowers bloom and we think it is great that we have a robust voice that can be quick conviction on these issues, so we welcome home and anticipate having him again. he has been with us for 10 out of 14 conferences and we hope to continue to have him. host: ok. we have some calls for you. charlotte, florida.

nebitt, go ahead. caller: good morning. your organization is tax-free, but you are church based. can you explain that? why are you involved in politics if you are a church organization? guest: we are a faith-based organization. not exactly sure what the caller is suggesting but i am assuming he does not believe if you are christian you should not be able to have a political view. everybody in america should have the right to believe and speak as she or he believes. so, we do -- our role is to educate voters, and certainly to carry the values of the voters. we art memb -- are a member driven organization. we kind of are able to petition congress, like a union would be

able to, so i think that we play an important role in my opinion in the american political discourse. host: james and boca raton on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would like the guest to enlighten or explain to me the seemingly very strong support on christian and evangelical groups for donald trump. some background, i am a republican. and i have -- or was a supporter of ronald reagan. i'm 70 years old. i voted for donald trump twice, certainly the first time because of my discussed -- disgust for

hillary clinton. cannot stand hillary clinton. can he cite me one example of moral christian behavior demonstrated by donald trump. he's a serial philanderer. there's no indication he attends church on a regular basis. and you should be worshiping once a week on sunday, on the sabbath. he demonstrates no moral christian values. yet, he seemingly enjoys strong support among folks like yourself. an i am mystifiedd. i do not get it. unless there is a pragmatic string in your organization, which could very well be. one thing in your groups is neanderthals and folks that do

not think. that is their mistake. they put your folks down at their own peril. but i am mystified by that. guest: all very fair questions, not new questions. we feel several questions along those lines since 2015 as it relates to donald trump. bu i thinkt that we have the broader question that goes before donald trump. i think that increasingly people of faith, and we will talk specifically about evangelicals and faithful catholics, there is an element of recognizing that we live in a world that's not a perfect world. they are not voting for a pastor or bible teacher, they are voting on public policies, who will lead -- in this case the united states -- but label on governors, congressmen and

others based on public policy. i think everybody would love to say that their senator or governor is exactly like them, but most voters, evangelical or otherwise, recognize that they are usually choosing between one of two candidates at the end of the day and they want to see certain values propagated. in the case of donald trump, 81% of evangelicals supported him his first election committee 3% his an -- and 83% his second election. . and they look at policies around religious liberty, you could go on. if so i think that it is actually, donald trump has made the keys even easier because of robust public policy from 2017 through 2020. host:

host: looking at the past year or so, there have been many bills introduced across the state and over to 20 excessively --220 excessively -- explicitly target trans people. what role does your organization have at the state level to support measures like that? guest: wokism is something that is hard to define but it is something that you know when you see it and was a surprise for all of us coming out of the decision right now six years ago and within weeks, after the

supreme court recognition of same-sex marriage rights, that the -- there was a transgender bentonville. -- bathroom bill. a lot of people -- the struggle that people face is there is not a lot of confidence. it seems like it was a destination and route to something else and no one was sure what the something else was because it seems like a dowser out one more ratchet every year or two. as a former therapist before i got into law and politics, i dealt with a lot of people who were dealing with a number of challenges, family challenges and i consider myself a passionate and enduring person for folks that are going through challenges like that but that doesn't mean that every accommodation in north america

has to be modified for rare exceptions. we are talking about maybe 1/10 of a percent of our population and we are seeing robust federal policies and corporate policies that are hamstringing 99% of the population. host: in your view, the reaction legislator stith -- legislatively, -- on gender? guest: what i would suggest is the same strategic efforts that brought over fell through the supreme court process. it took almost six years from

the time of filing to the time it reached the supreme court. those same efforts, that was never the end goal. my question continues to be what is the end goal? because before the supreme court even opined on the decision, some of the same organizations and individuals were at the city and county levels. guest: -- host: more questions for tim head. we go to jail in iowa. the democrats line. caller: i had several points i want to make and i hope i am not cut off quickly as i have been the last couple of months. a couple of points. number one, he is clouding the issue a lot when it comes to the aftereffects of the dobbs decision. if you take a look what is happening with metal colleges with ob/gyn interns and people who are looking for places for

their residency, people are now 20 to go to these restrictive states and if you look at georgia, the number of ob/gyns available in that state is atrocious and it will get worse because of the dobbs decision. you're right, as a religious person, you have a right to your own personal views but when you people organize and get political, those are groups that should not be tax-exempt just because they have a religious affiliation with your getting involved in politics. one person a iowa tried to get the fatal harpy law and the supreme court turned it down and she's thinking about how to get a special session and it has been clear that over 65% of iowans think abortion should be safe and legal and available. we have 20 weeks now and even the senate, 60% in, as majority

-- super majority, we have a super majority and they need to keep their hands off of things. host: we will hear from timothy head. guest: on the tax-exempt speak -- peace, i am sure a lot of colors are familiar busy -- between a 501(c)(3) and a 501(c) four. organization is a 501(c)(3) but there are no tax benefits to being a 501(c)(4). as to be i will bill jill was alluding to, we do it quite a bit in iowa so i am familiar with the makeup of the iowa supreme court which is a bit of a unique way of constituting the supreme court. there is a schism between the state supreme court and the iowa

-- the governor and the state senate and house. it was like dobbs and -- it was like the opposite of surprise for everyone that works in the iowa -- the supreme court had issues with the iowa legislator governor and as it relates to abortion but there are other distinct issues, that there is a loggerhead between the supreme court there and the state legislator. broadly, i will say, while your question earlier, we think there is a place for their creation -- for different reaction nation -- for differentiation or distinction with states. realistically, on these issues than others, i don't think you

will see california and missouri will agree on a lot of things. we think that missouri should have input on state law in the united states. host: she pointed out, georgia, i don't know what the numbers are but are we seeing in effect in both states of fewer people being available for women to provide those services? guest: i think it is early and we are talking about ob/gyn's going into industries. the dobbs decision is 12 months exactly. it is -- territorial effects on medical practitioners. i will say that in a handful of

states, there are civil liabilities that are connected to any protection or -- any practitioner who deviates from states criminal law and in those states, you seem practitioners relocate but we are talking about three states and those laws kicked in january of this year and one of them in the summer of last year. very new in the process so i it is -- i think it is process for -- possible to drive through insurers but it is early in the process to say these are definitive effects on professionalization. host: next up is lamar, pine bluff, north carolina. republican line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i was going to say a couple things. i will be short on both of them

because i know time, you like to get to different ones. i was wondering if these people that are talking so much about abortion issues, i am against it and there are ways to keep people from having that abortion preventative from getting pregnant. and i don't understand why people are going bonkers and wants an abortion when they can do stuff to prevent even having abortions because i don't believe in that and as far as president pence, i am glad that he came aboard to run for presidency -- the presidency. he is a christian and i am a christian but he has good statements that would be a great cause for the country.

this country has been south, not north, not held its own. it is depleting. it is bad for the people who do not have high income because of the leadership we have now, because they are not doing nothing to help us, to help none of us. i am 70 years old but thank god i am getting bad -- i am by because he promised to never leave us or for sake us i thank god for that. seriously, we need leadership that will protect us from foreign countries that will step up and not sent back and go on about things that are helping us. i will leave it right there. host: timothy head. guest: i will speak to the second part. i think a lot of folks may be

misconstrued a little bit that even chemical -- that evangelical faith based voters click -- care deeply about issues like abortion, religious liberty and israel and family questions but evangelical voters have jobs and mortgages as well. they have to see their family so the country is always the number issue -- number one issue for faith-based oh -- voters. security, national or foreign security, as well as domestic security, those are top of mind and whenever things are safe and secure, we don't talk about as much but as soon as they are not safe and secure, we talk about security and the justice system immediately before we get to questions related to marriage and family, qokiam --wokism.

your point is well taken. our hope is that people with live highs -- lives that are responsible and accountable as it relates to pregnancy and having children which is one of the reasons why we don't want to see abortion used as a form of birth control. we think there are appropriate and dire moments, the life of the mother moments that we do need to have that available in that padre sen. capito:cadre. we think there are better ways to make decisions and not using this as a prophylactic. >> hearing the gentleman talk about these things, i would like for him to cite specifics when

he says there are programs that -- out there that supports our adoptions, i would like for him to cite specifics of where these programs are and will the money going towards them. i am from minnesota. these people who are so antiabortion, they can give no specifics. they have no information for anything they are directing. in my own personal experience, i almost gave a shout of for adoption and was told by the religious organization that i didn't deserve to be respected. i didn't deserve anything and whatever and my husband and i changed our minds and by the sound we got married shortly thereafter but it was despicable the way we were being treated. i would like to hear specifics about the money and the efforts going toward people maybe having

children that are not intended or were not planned. people can do all sorts of efforts to plan against legacy and it can still happen. i haven't told i would die because of her pregnancy and i stuck it out and she is ok and i ok -- am ok but it could have gone the other way. host: all right, kathryn. guest: i am recognizes early -- i am recognizing certainly -- pregnancy is a vulnerable moment in a woman's life. which is why i am sober and somber when we talk about these issues. i don't know all the details that she was alluding to, the caller was alluding to. i am terribly sorry, it sounds like some people really had input that was completely inappropriate in my opinion.

i had friends who have gone through with abortions and it was one of the most heart wrenching experiences of their lives. it physically has some implications but even more so having long-term psychological and emotional impacts which is the reason why we do support, in minnesota, i think she is right that they have not been quite as foresight full as i would refer to as alternatives to abortion. that is one of the highest priorities for us at faith and freedom, protecting the innocent lives of these newborn babies but also making sure that woman has -- have all services as well as psychiatric health services available -- you think host: host: it is appropriate for states to create laws that penalize women, if their state is -- restricted or outlawed abortion, to

criminalize women who travel outside of that state to get abortion care? guest: a good question. it is shortsighted and i would prefer states to really provide -- limits are appropriate but wraparound services are a better approach. i think the reality is you will see some people travel. it is early, it can get really -- it is early to get conclusive data but it is showing a fairly small lumber up -- small number of people are traveling. host: we talked about the dobbs decision. as a surprise you how quickly the landscape has changed in terms of the laws that have been passed in the states? guest: it hasn't surprised me. it is a bit of a turnover and

some states have -- a number of states, 14 states have trigger loss --laws in anticipation of a supreme court decision but 24 have affirmative -- affirmatively passed laws and some states are in the throes of doing this and next year, we will have -- they will have passed thanks so three years after the dobbs decision, i think you will see the chessboard for -- reset with red states going to one direction and blue states going to another. not a surprise, the end is -- into chrissy's -- be intricacies of -- the intricacies of each states are different. host: next caller is charlene who is in west virginia on the democrats line.

welcome. caller: thank you. i grew up in a religious home. my father was a methodist preacher. he is 97 now. we have talked about this evangelical movement that is going on right now. i watched a documentary of shiny happy faces about the dugger family. i am wondering if this guy belongs to the same group of evangelicals. there is child molesting going on in that group. how can you set and talk about abortion and all the stuff and you have the stuff going on in your group? host: i will let our guest respond, the group she alleges about this documentary, are you familiar with it? guest: i have heard the families

name perform and i have met them before. i am not a family member with them and they are not affiliated with the faith and freedom coalition. i will send broadly, they are absolutely back -- bad actors who claim to be christians or ministers in various kind of public facing capacities. you have to bear in mind that even scripture teaches that all of us in. just because you're a christian doesn't mean you're perfect. really nefarious activities like this, there are plenty of people who cloak themselves with many story waste -- with ministerial or clinical regalia is to mask -- regalias to masquerade and they need to be held to account. host: for there any conversation

by the recent decision by the southern baptist convention to remove some female pastors who had been named pastors in several churches across the country? guest: we didn't discuss that specifically at our conference over the weekend but i grew up in the southern baptist church myself. my parents works in denomination for a long period of time and it is a long conversation. there is biblical teaching around various kind of roles for genders and official roles in churches and that probably -- but discussion probably won't cease with the results of the southern baptist convention's conference decision a month or six years -- weeks ago. host: this is keith in new york city. independent line.

caller: i want to go back to a question from earlier caller about the faith and freedom coalition's support for donald trump. the previous color listed a bunch of shortcomings donald trump had an your guest replied, the people of the coalition are not voting for a pastor. their only voting on public policy. but there are any number of republican to have the same exact public policy who don't have the same personality failings as donald trump. i am believing it is something else. i don't believe it is public policy but it is something else that leads people to support him and i would love for your guest to come in on what it truly is because it simply can't be that donald trump's public policy is superior to others. guest: probably a question or

analysis there and what i implied and maybe should be stating is who is running for president. i think a lot of people may like steve scully's --scalice in the u.s. up -- represent us but he is not running for president. a, among the candidates who are running and b, the candidates who cannot win. -- can win. life and public policy and who either is the nominee towards the end of the process or has momentum and trajectory in the middle of the process and it looks like -- i think we have five or six candidates right now who will have significant support through iowa and south carolina and super tuesday and you will see evangelicals will

for all of those, nikki haley and tim scott and probably my pants and a handful of others. host: who surprise you at your conference? other presidential candidates -- of the presidential candidates? guest: our second event this year was with a number of them. i will say a name that not many people who have heard before. when people hear him in person, he presents well. he is an extremely compelling communicator and coming out of business finance is his own personal background. interestingly enough, he is a hindu and while faith is a significant portion for him and his family, he doesn't pretend to be a christian but he says, the same values that motivates him motivates christians and

that resonates with an -- a good number of people. i hope people watcher process with an open lens to recognize that there is an interesting and encouraging process that's going through a people are aware of and certainly donald trump but a lot of people are doing an open ear to other people who may be new to the process. host: this is dori in spokane, washington? caller: 90 and ion terminal and i revoke this time for whoever who will do the most important thing in this country and that is to save the border and is the first obligation of the president. i don't believe the government has any business in deciding who should live and die with regard to abortion. i think that is individual and other thing is, i think the people that really support the elect oriole college, if we had -- electoral college, every had

a common and consisted explanation on how fair it is, they would exist -- insist on it. host: the views of 90-year-old dorian. guest: the questions surrounding immigration and the border, they are trying -- kind of latent. for a lot of americans across the country until the incidents that inflamed and even the biden administration in recent days is recognizing that their extension of the u.s. border is starting to bite them in ways that they have not anticipated so there are basic elemental immigration conversations but we get to some dangerous physical -- physically dangerous as relates to events in all and other contraband --

as it relates to fentanyl another contraband -- and other contraband as a relates to other states. cleveland and portland is suffering as much as laredo and phoenix. host: timothy head is his leader and they are at ffcoalition.com. thanks for coming by washington journal. guest: thanks for having me. host: you will be joined by cornel west, green party presidential candidate and he is coming on to talk to us about his for president --his bid for president and why he is running. coming up next, it is over form and a chance -- it is open form and a chance to about news items. maybe something you are top -- we talked about this morning or

something you are following in national and regional use -- use. for republicans, (202) 748-8001, were democrats --for democrats, (202) 748-8000, for inpendents and others (202) 748-8002. we will beight back. ♪ >> live sunday on in-depth, and offer and professor returned to take calls about politics, interactional -- interactional professors -- affairs. he has published several books since his two thousand six appearance including the origins of political order and identity. join the competition with their owcost, facebook comments and tweets -- join the conversation with your own comments, facebook

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we want to bring you this reporting from alexander bolton of the hill. the headline, retirement talk surrounding thomas and alito raises the stakes for 2020 for election. he writes a lawmakers are looking ahead to the 2024 election as a pivotal opportunity is -- to shape the future of the supreme court because of a possibility that conservative justice cap -- clarence thomas and samuel alito could retire. democrats worry that this could allow a gop president to replace young -- the man with young conservatives that could replace -- host: jennifer on the independent line. caller: thank you so much. i wanted to speak to the gentleman that was on earlier. host: i am sorry mr. -- you missed him.

caller: anyway, i wanted to make a comment on the faith and freedom. i am concerned about faith and freedom because there should be separation of church and state and i want to know what his idea of freedom is because he is an older white gentleman and women one freedom as well. luckily, i am not of childbearing age anymore but his stance on women's health is concerned to me. best concerning to me. i will like for that to be expanded on. host: thanks for getting through. caller: cheryl -- host: cheryl is in manteca, california. caller: thank you for taking my call. i wanted to get in on the last

segment as well because. i have been a christian all my life. the bible that i read says do unto others as you would have done unto yourself. give unto caesar what belongs to caesar and to the lord what belongs to the lord. but i find with the christian community, these coalitions is they feel like they got to help god. god does not need their help. god did not go around chastising people. what he did is he allowed people to make a choice. you can either choose to follow the role of god -- the word of god or you can choose to follow what you choose to follow. everybody is saying that it should be an individual right to decide how you live your life

and that is what god gives us. he gives us a choice and no one should be making that choice for us and one martyr -- more point i would like to pick -- make. all of these coalitions who claim they are against abortion, these are the same people who do not do anything against gun violence that is killing children every day. there are the same people that when things come up for childcare or food care, we have food deserts in this country all over this country. these are the same people who fight against doing anything that would make it easy for a woman to keep a child. i think it is hypocritical, how they tried to spew this stuff and the people they support. the people that they support, they are the wolves in sheep clothing.

thank you for taking my call and i hope other callers will respond with what i have to say. host: grenada, mississippi is next. men --ben. caller: the morning. i suggest for the independent that runs for president and for office, how about running for primaries in the democratic party and in the republican party, that one candidate be on the same ballot and the democratic primary and republican primary and that will get more independence -- independents in congressional offices and lower offices and that will build up to their presidential bids. it would be better for them in a presidential election to have people in the senate, the house,

and in the lower gubernatorials and the lower offices. host: i am glad you raised the point -- point. our next guest is cornel west who is running as an and dependent for the green party. you will be a guest here in 20 minutes or so. this is the washington times, prices drop for fourth of july accessories, rise for beverages. fourth of july beverages will be cheaper this year as consumers feel the reason for going immigration -- for consumer inflation. folding tables, grill accessories, global stakes, sparklers, camping gear and fireworks listed for sale at amazon drop between 2% and a present and average prices in the second quarter for last year

according to the market resources -- researcher pattern. daily prices fell 30 pretty -- we present for hotdogs and $.22 for barbecue sauce over the same period. the company averaged daily listings for the most popular holiday item and it -- in each amazon category during the april 1, june 30 quarter. host: from chicago. . , welcome. caller: i want to state the corruption, the country is in. the fbi corrupts and the department of justice corrupts. the court system is corrupt and it bothers me that this whole thing started with the skunk, which is hillary clinton when they let her destroy all the evidence and she is the lawyer and she knows better. let her destroy all the evidence that was under subpoena. she should be in jail for that

and it carries on and on and it is so sad to see the country and the legal system fall into disarray like it has. these people, the biting --bide ns. nothing comes down on hunter and joe. it is said, wrong is wrong wherever comes from, which side of the aisle. thank you for taking. host: thank you. story from cbs news. irs whistleblower and hunter biden probe says he was stopped from pursuing investigative leads into dad or the big guy. they write that the irs's supervisor agent who helped oversee the investigation of hunter biden continues to raise questions about what he alleged was special treatment in the probe of the president's son saying that dating back to the trump administration, he was repeatedly prevented from taking

steps he would have considered routine. "we have to make sure that we treat every single person exactly the same." this was a 14 year veteran of the agency who spoke to cbs news on tuesday. his comments, week after the trump appointed attorney for delaware, david weiss, who has been leading the probe, announced a plea deal in the case against hunter biden, a republican who said he has no political motive and has never been engaged in politics. shapley told cbs he believes stronger charges could have been brought. in desert springs, california, it is ed on the democrats line. caller: it is actually desert hot springs. i wanted to talk to the previous guest. the freedom and faith coalition.

he said something that woke-ism was kind of hard to define. if you look at history, think back to 1933, think about good people, actually good people of germany going along with mr. hitler. going along with mr. hitler, good people. why were they going along with him? i would think that would be woke. what i am hearing is thanks to google translate, i can actually listen to all of those speeches that hitler did back then. i'm hearing a lot of the same thing coming out of some of today's politicians. i am hearing a lot of the same words.

what are we going to do? the republicans don't seem to understand that we don't want another hitler and we are trying to prevent that. thanks. bye. host: michelle is up next on the independent line. this is open forum. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling in response to the other caller who listed feedback on her comment about god gave people a choice. i certainly agree with her and i agree with most, really everything she said. i wanted to talk to mr. head as well because the trump question and his poll numbers increasing despite the fact that there are others in the race with similar policies just speaks to the fact that the republicans are committed to trump.

as a christian, it is almost like idolatry. they are giving trump praise and supporting him for what god did. god used a donkey. we don't need to exalt trump. but let's exalt god. i'm glad that abortion is not legal and is pushed back to the state. i'm glad there is opposition to a lot of liberalism that is happening today. but let's praise god for that and not trump. let's trust god, that he can continue what he is doing through another candidate instead of paying allegiance to trump. host: michelle, another caller mentioned this. why do you suppose donald trump has such a strong support,

strong following among much of the evangelical community? caller: kind of what i am saying, the idolatry. the fear of going against someone who was instrumental in getting rid of roe versus wade, and for the abraham accords. there is that fear. it is looking to the man instead of looking to god. i just wish my fellow christians would give god praise and not support a man who is vile, who is doing ungodly things. let's praise god for what he is doing in the earth and not trump. host: a few more minutes here on open forum. 10 more minutes of your calls and comments. one line for republicans, one for democrats and one for independents and others.

some of our live coverage coming out today on the c-span networks includes here, a discussion between the house and senate and possible opportunities for republicans and the white house to work together. the bipartisan policy center is hosting this. we will cover it at 11:00 eastern on c-span, on our mobile app and streaming live as well. then, we will have president biden and what is being billed as a major economic address, 1:00 p.m. eastern today. it is also here on c-span. later this afternoon at 3:00 p.m., the lgbtq rights discussion at the atlantic council talking about global inclusion with usaid administrator samantha power. kyle is in zion, illinois.

republican caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i also love the show and great discussions going on with the recent callers. host: alright, to maui, illinois. i'm sorry, maui, hawaii. we will get the city and state right. good morning. go ahead. caller: sorry, i think my jaw dropped on that last caller. i wanted to call in because i agree with both of those women and how society has become so self-righteous and they are forgetting a lot of the cardinal rules. i have been watching all of the judgments on just about everyone. you see people joining and following groups on facebook just so they control them and tell them they are sinning and

that they are going to go to hell for whatever they are doing. it is unbelievable and i'm like, i can't believe it. society has changed so much to the days where we just had freedom to be who we are and god will judge us all. he loves us all. it goes back to that classic "simpsons" episode where flanders goes against the preacher and he preaches fear and ends up falling over because the preacher said jesus loves all, everybody. anyone in the world. he will judge us by our hearts. when i hear the women calling in, it really touched me what they said. i also hear a lot of conspiracy theorists calling in. sorry, i am still a little dumbfounded by that last call. i hear a lot going on and i still hear it. they are bringing up things like hillary clinton.

it is always this and then they say it is on both sides. call it out for what it is, it is everybody. we stay up for your show. host: you sure do. appreciate you calling in, early or late, depending on how you view it. indiana is next. philip, independent caller. you are on the air. alright, we will share a piece from the front page of "usa today." we started the program asking about your trust in american elections. democracy is the focus of a survey they did. doubts grow from within as july 4 nears is the front-page headline. the united states will blowout 247 birthday candles this year. they write, many americans are not in a celebratory mood. there is little excitement about the 2024 presidential front

runners any lingering alarm about u.s. institutions. in all, seven out of 10 americans agree with the statement that america democracy is "in peril," according to a new poll ahead of independence day. the fallout from the january 6 insurrection coupled with concerns about the rise of artificial intelligence and other barriers to the ballot box as many americans biting their nails and asking whether the state of democracy can be improved as the country hurtled into another presidential election that promises to be even more divisive. what happens next will largely be decided by the results of the election and other down ballot races. to get ready, more states are taking steps to expand the vote and protect workers in 2023 compared with other states working to make it more difficult. ohio is next. nancy, good morning. republican caller. caller: hello.

thank you for taking my call. host: you bet. caller: i am calling about abortion. i am about ready to cry. i don't really understand why it is such a political view because i imagine that very many of the people, for very few of the people that call in have actually have an abortion. it affects you your whole life. people just don't know. the guilt you feel. you have taken a life. i just feel like people should understand that it does not end the day that the baby is taken out. not to mention the fact that it is very painful. it does not end that day. i am in my 70's and i was in my 20's when i had an abortion and i just feel terrible about it. i just wanted people to know that and see it from a different point of view.

thank you very much. host: thank you for calling in and sharing your own difficulty and your own story. newark, ohio is next. kathy on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i feel sorry for nancy. it is so sad when anybody does have to have an abortion, and i'm sure women are not rushing to have abortions just for birth control. the republicans claim that they are so religious that they have turned weapons of war on our country. they pose on their christmas cards with weapons of war with their poor miserable children in the picture. then, they are against health care for pregnant women, but all for the explosion of gun violence in this nation. the 18-year-olds can buy in ar-15, yet they cannot buy a

handgun. a lot of these kids though out and do these mass shootings at school as soon as they turn 18 and go get a weapon of war. it is just ridiculous that they call themselves christians. they are not christians, thank you. host: this is the second story i have done on food. maybe it indicates i am hungry but i could not resist. this is from the new york times, suggestions of pizza's past in a pompeii fresco. it caught the i of an archaeologist working in the ruins of pompeii and not because they were hungry. the researchers were excavating the site earlier this year when they ran across a fresco depicting a silver platter laden with wine, fruit and a round piece of dough that looked remarkable like a pizza. photo pizza may have been more like it given the city of pompeii was buried by a volcano in 709a.d, nearly 2000 years

before anything in modern civilization may have recognized as a pie existed. the archaeologists were insistent that the dish portray did not mean the history of pizza is about to be rewritten. "most of the terroristic -- characteristic ingredients are missing." still, they allowed the flat, rounded out top with pomegranate spices and what may have been a precursor of pesto might be a distant ancestor to a modern --. i will give you -- to a modern dish. i will give you a look here at the ancient pizza pie discovered by archaeologists digging in pompeii. on to indiana. philip, you are on the line. caller: i was calling about this thing where they gave out this money to everybody in the united

states, and i thought, now we are in major debt as far as our national economy. to me, china calls all of these viruses because they were people going from china and going to different countries and people started getting that virus right away. i thought, they should be charged china because they did that. 20% of their profits it should be going toward our national debt relief fund. i think it should be a national debt relief fund and 10% from other countries so we can get our national debt down. as far as rebuilding countries, where we are helping them in their work, we should be giving them knowledge on how to rebuild helping is only hurting us more and i think it is wrong and we should not be doing that. as far as the abortion rights, i believe the planned parenthood

should be teaching these people how to prevent those cells from getting pregnant if they want to have sex like that. that is not the way god wanted it to go. i think planned parenthood should be telling these people how to stop themselves from getting pregnant, like birth control, they have got men can wear condoms. if they don't want to get pregnant, they should be wearing those devices. host: philip first pointed to a story we read earlier. this is an nbc investigative report. the looting of the covid relief plan. the official says the programs are structured in ways that were an invitation to fraudsters.

in bridgeport, connecticut, let's hear from deborah, republican line. caller: good morning. yes, i have a couple of comments. mr. head made a, about reporting trump. it was very telling. the ferry seaview avenue faith to support the provision. it was a matter of power. he wants power. he wants to get the man that will support perhaps their policies. that is a matter of power. i think they are compromising their moral values to get power. as far as the election that we have, our election process, i have faith in our election process but i don't have faith in our voter process that is

supported by many of our state legislatures. i am concerned about gerrymandering of districts. supporting our people, the way they are able to register and vote. am safe in my state i am not for that is across the country. my ancestors came to this country in 1635. i have been in this country, my ancestors, a long time. i have been a republican since i was 18 and i am 66 now. i have been in this country a long time. i have faith. i have faith in our electoral process but i am concerned about the way our states are handling it at our state level.

not on our federal level. i think that if we actually looked at our abortion issue, it saves women's lives. we do have to educate women but we also have to educate men. there are a lot of things, i think i have one of your callers talked about educating people. women don't get pregnant mostly by themselves. we have to talk about the men and the women. we do have to provide education. we have to provide support, and we have to support them when they have to make that really hard decision. and we do have to support them when it comes a matter of the woman's health. we do have to look at especially when children get raped or there is incest with a brother or a father, raise a child, we have to look at that and be compassionate. host: thanks deborah.

next up is martha in hempstead, north carolina. democratic caller. caller: good morning. i have two comments. i am 86 years old. i was married, i am now widowed. i had three children and my birth control failed me. i did have an abortion and it was a hard decision to make, but it was the right decision for me and for my family. i have not had any problems with guilt. i feel sorry for nancy. evidently, the decision she made was not the right one for her. my second comment is that when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, they sent it back to

the states, not the state legislatures. so, i think that each state should have a statewide election on whether the people, every person in that state who votes decides whether or not that state should limit or whatever about the abortion issue. host: there in north carolina, the abortion law is about to change, correct? do you feel that reflects the will of the people in north carolina? the will of the voters or the will of the legislature? caller: it is definitely the will of the legislature. we have a republican-controlled legislature. we have a republican-controlled supreme court here. even though this recent -- i

think it was yesterday or the day before the supreme court upheld -- i can't remember the name of what they did, but it was for voting rights. the supreme court here in north carolina said they are not even going to be bothered with it. even though the state has been totally gerrymandered. to reflect republicans winning more districts than they should. host: glad you got through. to check in florida -- chuck in florida. caller: good morning. i just want to make two comments. first on the abortion issue. i think it is kind of disgusting that we are calling murdering a baby in the womb health care.

that is just ridiculous. it shows how godless our country is. number two, i hope the supreme court makes the decision soon, biden's illegal paying off of school debts because if he thinks republicans are going to just sit here and watch him buy votes, $400 billion worth, to buy votes with republicans' money that we paid in taxes, he has another thing coming. i don't think people are going to stand for that. any questions? host: thanks for calling. thank you for all of your calls this segment on open forum. still ahead on the program, coming up next, we will be joined by the green party presidential candidate cornell west to talk about his bid for the president, why he is running

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online at c-span.org. >> c-span's campaign 2024 coverages are a front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on our campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network, c-span now, our mobile app or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. >> "washington journal" continues. host: cornel west is with us. he is now the green party presidential candidate, author and activist and professor emeritus at princeton university running for president. professor, why did you decide to enter the race? guest: first, i just want to

thank you. i entered the race because i think we are at such a low point in the history of america. we have got to reintroduce each other to the best of ourselves, the best of our tradition. [indiscernible] we are at a point now where there is so much hatred and not enough talk about love and justice, not enough talk about something bigger than ourselves. what is bigger? truth. i am in it because i'm engaged in the quest for truth and justice. for me, it is a matter of raising my voice and making sure

that we acknowledge the ways in which the two-party system is an impediment for dealing with the problems of working people here and around the world. both parties have big money, wall street [indiscernible] u.s. troops in 150 countries, $.57 for every dollar going to the military. we need jobs with a living wage. we need decent housing, quality education, the basic social needs. you can imagine disproportionately black and brown are wrestling with poverty. the abolition of poverty and homelessness. i want jobs with a living wage across the board. i want a u.s. foreign policy that is not tied just a big money and corporate interest. i want a foreign policy that

acknowledges the land which america is a nation among nations. we don't have to be the policeman of the world. i know i should stop there. host: we wanted to make sure that our callers know that our lines are open for dr. west. one line for republicans, one for democrats, one for independents and all others. your displeasure with the two-party system is no surprise. it has been the theme of many of the conversations you have had on this network and elsewhere. what pushed you to say this time i'm running for president? guest: i just thought about all of the creative, imaginative, courageous fellow citizens that i need and how we end up with two candidates? trump on the one hand, biden on the other. good god. with brother trump, you have got a gangster in the objective sense.

i don't hate brother trump, i just hate his gangster activity. he is pushing us toward an almost kind of civil war. biden, again, i love the brother but he is a hypocrite. he is pushing toward world war iii when you talk about what he has to say about china and russia. we can have high-quality citizens actually become politicians, but they cannot be politicians because many are paid off by big money. many are captured by wall street and silicon valley. we need citizens who become politicians, concerned about the plight and predicament of the vulnerable ones. i came out of my position at shiloh baptist church [indiscernible] i look at the world through the

eyes of the least of these. host: dr. president biden. you said he is -- back to president biden. he said he is a hypocrite. where else do you think the president's policies have been hypocritical? guest: he promised -- and would not push it. he promised $15 minimum wage and would not fight for it. he promised voting rights and he would not touch it or make a deal with manchin. that is our conservative brother down in west virginia. when it came to the debt ceiling agreement, what happened? cut back on the poor, expand military and make the deal with manchin. that is one of the few times it seems to me that not just biden but the democratic party as a whole -- as you know, i was very close with bernie sanders.

he was not treated justly. he was not treated right. the democratic party is undemocratic in that sense. [indiscernible] it seems to me that we are concerned about truth and justice and if we want to preserve whatever is left of our present democracy, we have to engage in the critique of the oligarchy and critique of the way in which two parties with ties to big money, big military, corporate wealth. 60% of our american citizens are struggling to make it month by month. host: we have a number of calls for you, dr. west. i do want to ask you in a bit about your strategy. now, you are a green party

candidate, and getting on the ballot across the country. let's get to our callers and hear their comments and questions first. let's start with elise from springfield, virginia. caller: it is a pleasure to speak to you. i have to tell you, after listening to c-span, i really think that we need to abolish all political parties and get rid of money in politics. but that is just my opinion. i totally agree with you on some points. i wish that there was a way to address on the student loan issue because kids have been taking out student loans are working with a system that is almost a kin to loansharking. also, the other thing that i find really interesting, and this is from the gentleman who called from florida, he is rabidly against any type of help

for students in this country, but we watch the stock market program every day. there are now four programs, four organizations that are there to help businesses to get $26,000 per employee as they receive ppp grants. they make it very clear they don't have to pay that $26,000 per employee back. so for the republicans who are sitting in their chairs with steam coming out of their ears, can you imagine how we feel knowing that they get to subsidize businesses and our students don't get anything? the issue of abortion? do you really think that we need to put our little girls on birth control as soon as they hit -- because some guy wants to rape them in advance?

there is no consideration for children in this country. we have people swearing up and down on bibles, but they don't have a problem with having guns that kill them. i find that both political parties and people who call in and swear that this is their opinion and it is the gospel, they are doing more damage to our public and our citizens by the way that they are so negative and so hateful. host: elise in virginia. guest: i resume a lot with what my dear sister is saying. part of the problem is we have to learn to be self-critical without being -- and self-confident without being self-righteous. we need a certain kind of futility while tied to a certain tenacity. there's nothing wrong with standing up for your views, but

we have to learn how to listen and take other people's views seriously. that is what public life is all about. once democracy loses that, you get into polarized name-calling and you end up with gangsterized and bows and arrows going both directions. when you think about children, my god. 23% of children live in poverty in the richest nation in the history of the world. we have so much big money floating at the top. it is hemorrhaged at the top. there has been a massive distribution from working people to the top. organized greed at the top. greed runs through all of it because as human beings, we all have greed. organized greed is what we are dealing with and it makes no sense to have three individuals with wealth and equivalent to the bottom 150 million american

citizens. three individuals that have wealth equivalent to 50% of the american citizenry. one person at the top have wealth equal to 90%. they say we deserve it. please. we know the arbitrary nature of the redistribution of wealth has gone from working people to the well-to-do in the last 50 years. that is what we need to call radically into question. my campaign really is tied to my own calling. my calling is something that cuts so much deeper than partisan politics. it is tied to how do we keep track of each other's humanity and access the best that each and everyone of us knowing that all of us have the worst inside of us? host: let's hear from tonya in cincinnati. good morning.

tonya on the democrats line in cincinnati. are you with us? tonya, one more time. then we will go to isaac. isaac is calling on the republican line in woodbridge, virginia. caller: hello. i have been a fan of yours for a long time and i watch a lot of your lectures and i read your books. one of the most discussed topics you discuss is race relations in america. you claim that a jim crow junior is still very prevalent in american society. so, my question for you is, how do you explain the phenomenon that many african immigrants, including ugandan americans, ghanian americans and especially nigerian americans are some of the most successful and immigrant groups in america? guest: appreciate the question.

you and i know that if we were to look at the mass incarceration regime in america, what do we find? a disproportion of black and browns. i'm here in california. black people in california are 6%, almost 35% of the homes. what is going on? it has much to do with the fact that when you have a group like myself, black folks who have been here for nine generations, enslaved for over 100 years and then slavery with jim crow and lynching, disenfranchisement for another hundred years, that is different than our precious african brothers and sisters, caribbean's, who are voluntary immigrants. who come in hitting the ground already with a tremendous self of sense confidence -- sense of self-confidence.

it is the same with our european brothers and sisters who came. when i say jim crow junior, what i say is the american apartheid system was legal segregation, legal jim crow, but to factor -- de facto. where people live, the schools people attend, the networks people have access to. that is the jim crow junior. we are talking about not losing sight of the humanity. you are right. immigrants are not monolithic but they are very different. culture makes a difference, strong institutions make a difference. but when you have deep institutions that are racist and white supremacist in terms of how they connect, relate,

perceive black folks, especially black folks who have been here for a long time, then you have something going else. keep in mind, we are never solely victims. i come from a black people who have produced some of the greatest warriors and freedom fighters in the face of overwhelming trauma, overwhelming terror. every community has its thugs. i have a lot of gangster in me. i work on it every day. host: here is joseph in compton, california. democrats line. caller: good morning. it is an honor to talk to you, mr. cornel west. i read your books. i also come from the streets of the gangster. i have been watching this stuff going on in america/ it led me to proclaim the great jubilee. as we see this republican party

claiming the system is being messed up because of donald trump gangsterism, we have been living under the suppression of the federal government since we have been here. under the concept of jubilee that has been written on the liberty bell, i am proposing to pardon all my brothers and sisters that have been mistreated under the federal criminal system. it is this right that we have two proclaim this right of jubilee. in jubilee, that all public officials should resign. it is not term limits because everybody has a right to also be reappointed. even they gave obama a chance to run. by jubilee, we can start this whole system all over and give it a free chance but they are not willing to do that. because it is difficult, but this is what is bogging us down

as a people. it is going to happen but just as we be bold enough and claim it and do the right thing and turn this world right side up, we all know we come up in this world upside down. now, we see the kingdom of love. host: dr. west, your thoughts. guest: i appreciate my brother's spirit and his words. i think when they are talking about jubilee is the physical conception of justice. you see that in hebrew scripture. again, it has to deal with trying to understand the acknowledgment the damage done and then trying to repair it. that is what reparation is all about. i don't see how one can be fundamentally committed to truth and justice and not also committed to some form of reparations when people have been damaged, people have been exploited.

labor has been taken and even land taken and so forth. we see that with the japanese and it was highly appropriate with our jewish brothers and sisters in germany. this issue of truth and justice is very challenging. it is double-edged. it is not just against others but we do have to take some responsibility. host: the green party is on some 15 states, according to their website. on the ballot in 2024 in 15 states. how do you plan to approach this in terms of where you will campaign, the types of events you will focus on and getting on the ballot in those states where the green party is not yet on the ballot? guest: as you know, these are decisions in real time. we are in the process of access activity. i am a green party participation in the nomination process.

that will culminate next summer. we should probably be on a good 48, 49 states. it is a process and that is part of the problem. the two parties make it very difficult for third parties. the libertarian party, the green party. i come from a people that say lift every voice. you have to find your voice and your voice is unique to yours just like your fingerprint. we have too many echoes in american politics. too many that just reflect and not enough thermostats that shape the opinion, shape the perception and try to teach people how to have respect for fellow citizens and tell them the truth.

this is true about foreign policy, domestic policy and it is true about our establishment. host: let's hear from trent on the independent line. monroe, louisiana. caller: brother, cornel. the whole shift of the atmosphere c-span has just shifted since you have come on. you are the yearning hope, you are part of it. i am a conservative hard right christian. i have watched you over and over again blend literature, poetry, theology. there is something inside of you that is a real cry that transcends left and right. here is what i kind of want from you. this jeffrey epstein, the liberals, the conservatives, the media, nobody will talk about it. when you go deep into that thing, there is the key that unlocks the deeper things that control the country. bless his heart, donald trump

was right there with epstein. he looks like he has been doing a lot of bad things with him. they have got that on him. you could relieve that brother of his sins if he be that guy that makes this a part of your presidential campaign. i love you, brother. man, i thank god that one day i will get to see in heaven with you and talk for years and years. guest: my dear brother, i salute you. we are praying for each other. just a matter of trying to be honest about what it means to follow jesus of nazareth. he is crucified. why did he go in? not because he hated money changers, he hated greed. he had a deep love for the least of these. 25th chapter of matthew going back to hebrew scripture, spreading that lovingkindness.

we need that spirit, my brother, translated into our public life. translated into our public -- politics. the love i have for you and the love you have for me because much deeper than politics and political agreement. we have to acknowledge when we do deeply disagree. me and my dear brother traveled the country and we try to talk about this over and over. can we be candid about the underside of our society and access the sunnyside? u.s. foreign policy, can we have a deep commitment to jewish security and palestinian dignity and acknowledge that the israeli state is occupying. does that make you antisemitic? no, if you make sure you're

staying in contact with the jewish brothers ancestors. in terms of the policy is complicated in terms of the moral and spiritual issues. we have to be very honest about that. you cannot get a people out of the republican party or democratic party when there is a massacre of palestinians and no one says a word. that is morally obscene. that is spiritual malnutrition. they are scared, fearful, intimidated. but when you are committed to truth and justice, you are freed. the truth sets you free. host: question for you on twitter from tony who says, is dr. west aware of the wealth gap over the last 50 years tracks the rise in the national debt? guest: indeed.

you can see the national debt has not much to do with the wars. trillions in iraq. over half a million iraqi lives were lost. hardly mentioned. c-span has been willing to talk about it because you have a variety of listeners. an iraqi life has the same value as in american life, lithuanian life, a life in china. that is the notion of what it means to be made in the likeness of god. therefore, we have to be honest about how the national debt is tied to war and what it means to be critical of war. not because we are pacifist, i have a great respect for quakers and others. i am a christian but i'm not a pacifist. i believe in justice but in very different circumstances.

afghanistan, trillions of dollars. iraq, trillions of dollars. ukraine, now over $135 billion and growing. more than likely, you don't know how much money is actually being paid. we have to be sensitive with our ukrainian brothers and sisters but also critical. now, two decades later, 13 former soviet countries are now part of nato with missiles targeted at russia. if russia had missiles in mexico and canada, what were the u.s. government do? probably blow them this leather reins. -- to smithereens. the wealth of america is greed. the best of america's love, justice and willing to live in the world as a nation among

nations. that is the legacy of martin luther king and so many of the others i have mentioned. host: to ken, caller from spokane, washington. caller: good morning. what a privilege to be able to speak with you this morning. i just have a question for you regarding the democratic party's very dark past and its present, and probably the future of the democratic party. i was just wondering why do not all but the majority of black americans continue to vote democrat? i will take my answer offline. thank you for being on this morning. very good discussion, thank you. guest: thank you, my brother. very important question. as you know, republicans was once the party of lincoln. keep in mind, abe lincoln won on a third-party ticket.

black folk were tied to the republican party until the 1930's when the dixiecrats and southern democrats became more dominant -- excuse me, they shifted from the republican to the democrat party. the independent party where is where you had the dixiecrats that became republicans in the 1960's. wallace ran on a ticket where 12.8% of the candidates ran on a wiper -- white supremacist campaign. unfortunately, both parties do not speak to the needs of black, poor and working people but professional classes. black leadership became tied so much to the black professional group and the black democrats and they turned their backs on lack poor and black working

people. you have class issues within the black community. under the democrats, joe biden, the architect of what? mass incarceration. he is the one that stood out there and said we want to make sure we never see them again. brother joe, those are human beings down there. some of them are doing wrong. many of them, nonviolent offenses still going to jail. what happens when wall street has its crimes. predatory lending, fraudulent activity? how many wall street executives went to jail under obama and eric holder and biden? hardly any. roughly the number of black folks in the national hockey league. it is clear black folks are locked into a democratic party that does not speak to the plight of black poor and working

people but the black democrat does very well. even though i myself as a professor could be considered very much part of the middle class, i have a moral commitment first and foremost to poor people and working people of any color, any religion, any sexual orientation. why? because they have been left out. unfortunately, the black leadership breeze black folks -- we have to keep in mind, we have almost 40% of our fellow citizens that don't vote at all. they have given up on the electoral political system. these are the citizens i will be going at. host: on the georgia next and we will hear from ellis. caller: how are you doing? glad to talk to you. a couple of questions i want you to answer for me. number one, do you think the

election was stolen? number two, if you have a stolen document, do you think you would be in jail today? number three, why are you really running when you know you don't have a chance of winning and you have a great thing and i think you are very intelligent. may god bless you. guest: thank you so very much, my brother. we will be praying for each other. i don't think the election was stolen. i don't think our election process is perfect. i think we need to struggle for more election integrity. unfortunately, because of the role of big money. we don't get high quality candidates because oftentimes you have to have big donors to even run for office. i don't think it was stolen, not at all. host: i think ellis was referring to alluding to the

documents that former president trump is now charged with taking, charged by the government with taking documents. i think that is what he is alluding to. guest: i see. i think we need to follow the process to make sure people have a fair trial in the matter who they are. we also know that biden had documents, hillary clinton had documents. too often, politicians get away with it. we have to be committed to a fair trial. the third question as to why i am really running, i have already told you. this is just the color of truth and justice spilling over. when you run for something, it is not a question of thinking you can win it in the short term. too often in america, we associate the pragmatic with the myopic. it is not just a matter of

thinking you see a way out at that immediate moment. i come from a people that make a way out of no way. we don't know what is going to happen in the next 13 or 14 months. we have no idea. when you are trying to be used by something bigger than you, it is not a question of thinking you have the ticket for a utilitarian way. there is something spiritual, immeasurable, invisible in terms of having impact on people that in and of itself is a certain kind of winning. i'm not one to reduce everything to the utilitarian and short-term consequential consequences. not at all. the reason i am really running is the reason i have been living and breathing and loving and laughing for the last 63 years when i accepted jesus at shiloh baptist church, because it is a calling and i want to be true to that calling and all about love that has been poured into me, to be honest about that love and

try to spread it when you can love and truth and speak in the truth. love and beauty means trying to enact something that allows people to see humanity and light of all the ugliness in the world, surrounding yourself to something bigger. so you can be a force for good before you die. that is why i am running. host: let's get one more for you. david is calling from newport news, virginia on the independent line. caller: good morning, dr. west. it is an honor to speak with you, but i am truly an independent because it is without a doubt the two major parties are deeply flawed. however, the problem i have is that the republican party has become an instrument of fascism. i am really afraid to vote third-party to hand the reins of power over to a deeply flawed

and dangerous group. i respect your positions, but i'm very hesitant to support you. how would you respond to my concerns? guest: that is really a very crucial question. it really is. because this is the clash between what i was talking about in terms of utilitarian thinking , counting the numbers, and trying to create something new. fascism is real. fascism is at work in a powerful way in the republican party and can in the republican party. and it could easily spill over in the democratic party too. don't think the republicans have a monopoly. but certainly trump is worse. but one out of 10 of those voted for bernie sanders.

but it is a matter of policy and spirit. but how do you fight fascism? i don't think you can fight fascism. if you are in the democratic party, tied to the same militarism, and you have a caretaker that says i'm not the almighty but i'm all the alternative. this is what joe biden says. to fight fascism, you need a stronger vision, stronger passion and channeling all of the frustrations into a more all embracing project. right now too often you follow the neofascist pied piper, that is what tribe is. can't just be short-term because the short-term will never get

out of the frick and frack and tweedledee tweedledum cycle. because when it comes to militarism and poor people, a whole host of issues, it is taboo. nobody wants to come to terms with it. nobody wants to come to terms with the military budget. in the end we've got to somehow make a break or disruption and it has to be done in such a way that citizens have a spiritual awakening and a moral reckoning of going more radically democrat and by that i mean allowing the voice of those everyday people, their voices to be heard. the two-party system does not allow the voices of working people to be heard. the politicians are already

bought, captive or so deeply tied to big money. host: we will look forward to future campaign invest -- events, cornell west. the green party presidential candidate. thank you for your time and your conversation with our viewers, professor west. guest: thank you, god bless you and your loved ones. host: that will about wrap it up for the programs on washington journal. we are back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. have a great rest of the day. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] >> here is what is live today on

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