♪ host: welcome to washington journal, july 3, we discussed bidens reelected strategy. and summing up what he calls bidenomics with decisions made by the administration. his opponent pushed back on that saying he is spending and

resulting in higher inflation area recent polling says the president could be tasked for this. this morning we want your take on bidenomics and if you think it is working or not. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, and independents (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. you can also post on our social media site, facebook.com on c-span and on twitter both at c-span wj. and last week in chicago, the administration sent out a tweet of what they call bidenomics. they say it is about growing the

economy from the middle out, bottom up, not the top down. and where there are smart investments in america where you educate and empower american work. -- american workers. that is one of the definitions of bidenomics. this is in the speech in chicago where he elaborated on the concept. here is a ocean of this from last week -- here is a portion of this from last week. >> guess what, bidenomics work. when i was -- first moved into this position businesses hundreds of thousands were on the verge of closing. today has the highest economic growth rate leading the world economy since the pandemic. the height in the world. [applause]

>> we have 13.4 million new jobs. that is as impressive -- as far as it has ever made it before. that is bidenomics in action. it is about building a new economy from the middle out, and the bottom up. not the top down. we made some decisions in congress and we have been able to do it. first, making smart investments in america, educating and empowering americans to grow the middle-class. and lowering cost to help small businesses. host: you can see all about on c-span. and the administration making its case with the political announcement and headline from last week where the economy when it was reevaluated first quarter

for domestic product exceeding 2%. in the first quarter but in recent polling, about the administration tackling the economy, it does not show a positive future. this is from the associative press. they say what it takes to look at the administration and the paneling of it overall 34% of think the administration is handling it properly. 2% of her publicans and 89% -- 10% of republicans and others. speaker kevin mccarthy sending out a tweet saying the same style -- saying bidenomics which they think is about blind government spending and regulation. an economic disaster where there

was high inflation, lower pay t-rex -- lower paychecks, and it leaves americans worse off. those are some of the views of bidenomics if you want to add years to the mix and tell us if you think it is working you can call us at democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. text us at (202) 748-8003. it was after that speech in florida where florida republican gave his view of bidenonics here what he had to say >> everybody's income have fallen in inflation. under the trump economy black voters were earning her money and building wealth. in this economy we have interest rates that are higher, serious concerns with the bank, the

energy is become a more dependent on foreign sources. we could go down the list. participation rate is worse than it should be. and if biden just set in the oval office and did nothing our economy would have rebounded faster than it did without the crippling inflation which has hurt everybody. that is the biden economic record which is a record of disaster. that is why voters almost 221 -- two to one want someone else leaving them. host: that was him giving his own take. when the administration put out a policy paper, they highlighted the three things that president biden did in a speech to make smart investments in public america. empowering growing the middle-class and lowering the

costs and helping small businesses thrive. in the first section, when president biden came into office, the economy fell from 7% to half of that. and they say the targeted public investment can attract more sectors that have been crowded out especially true in sectors that are in the national security interest of the united states in roofing semiconductors, clean energy, and climate security. under the worker section of educating the middle-class they write that it recognizes the benefits of growing the economy are -- independent individuals like -- they said it would not fall below 4% until 2025 but unemployment fell four years before expectation and his stay that way the past 18 months.

and the administration writes that bidenomics recognizes the benefits of growing in economy and only are designed to promote and empower workers. more competition means lower-cost for consumers and higher rages -- wages for workers. and they are hoping to increase competition across the economy. that is some of the take on the administration bidenomics and you can call in with your take on whether it is knocking -- working or not. democrats (202) 748-8000 republicans (202) 748-8001 independents (202) 748-8002. let's start with democrat line,. , good, thank you for calling. p, in florida.

caller: this is terrel. host: sorry wrong person. , democrat line. hello. caller: hello you're on. i love when you have republican only our. it is like a political -- but let me get into bidenomics of course it is working. this guy has done nothing less than a phenomenal job as a president in the first two years he was in office. the only other president that did that was barack obama. i cannot believe that with a straight face they can say all that crack. biden's programs were paid for. -- trump being better on the economy. it is not bidens fault that we have -- host: when it comes to bidenomics itself you say it is

working what do you used to measure that? caller: everything in the economy. he has gotten the economy back on the right way. it is not his fault that people do not realize is. most americans know little to nothing about policy, government, how it works or does not work, that is why we keep electing the same fool. he knows how trump was on the economy has about one third of the debt in four years. host: robert in massachusetts, independent line. on bidenomics and whether or not it is working. good morning. caller: good morning. that guys that just called he just -- host: robert hung up. let's go to montana, democrat line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i think it is working as well as it can, but i think it were

better if he could have permission to bring back postal thinking and let workers own their own business and workers own the bank that they make. i think they could do a lot more on that side. he is doing what he can under capitalism, but you know, he is trying. host: when you say it is working -- how would you measure that. caller: that he is not donald trump or others. he is still doing all he can to prevent them from coming in because they will make it worse. capitalism is bad but they will make it even worse. but you have to kind of pick your battles and just, you know, woman up, i guess. and you do as good as you can in capitalism but there's so many other things you should do. host: republican on this line of bidenomics. good morning, dave.

caller: thank you for my call. bidenomics is another word for socialism. we are capitalistic economy. biden is just trying to destroy everything the trump made. prices are up, gases are up, he screwed up the strategic oil reserves by letting -- releasing them way too early and waiting until oil went high to fill backup. biden has been wrong on every decision in his political career. host: that is that the only measure you look at which is gas prices when you gauge whether the president policy is working on economic or not. caller: in general they are all out. host: when you say all up give me a specific. caller: oil. host: how has food changed since

-- how has food prices changed from year-to-year where you live in florida. give me an example. caller: they have gone up tremendously. host: ok. he is there in florida. this is scott on facebook saying and it comes to the idea but -- of bidenomics you a there is nothing in your account and your deep freezer echoes when you want something for dinner and want something to eat, you look in the cabinet to see -- vehicles are gagging on fumes, and gas is low. this is the key mayfield saying that it is not enough that food and -- prices are more. but i have to pay escrow charges on my career. -- and there is an anti-energy per legal inlet -- immigration

policy for killing the average american. we voted for joe biden and you are in denial. and then tom -- i'm sorry if i say your last name wrong, to correct. -- the lowes world prize wages are up. the dow is up, manufacturing jobs are booming, the group is taking -- republicans are hoping for this to materialize. you can make those comments on our facebook page on facebook.com/c-span. let's hear from shall in georgia independent line. is bidenomics working, tells what you think? caller: yes, i think they are working i can say that because we can see, i am. in florida at the beach. i just left charleston at the international exam opening in charleston.

with that development on the water. the real economy, look sick it will be have. we have an economy that has working people like today. we had the economy come to take care of the laundry and we went to the grocery early morning so to be able to take care of the menu for the week here with the children. 10 children, five adults, what we have now look at what we have. we have the real economy the people that work every day. the housekeepers, the nannies, the truck drivers, the people who work at the school, in terms of the whole economy, not just summer, but i am speaking of the daily working people that we could not survive without, who

are is central workers. they were is central -- essential in covid. but then we look at the workers to work to deliver the packages they have come now to the delivery economy where a few people do not come to deliver the packages and that is important. but the biggest problem is the power-sharing. if you look at all the -- the sec has the ceos they keep upon -- business channel that i look at. they talk to their shareholders about how it is that they are that creating the shareholder -- marks the shareholder. host: that is share debt shall be in georgia. in her point was wages for hourly workers. and there's a report on it this

morning were hotel workers in california are getting ready to go to strike in at attempt to earn higher wages. you can use that as a measure to view bidenomics. you can call in or text us at text us at (202) 748-8003. of you here -- a viewer from maryland. hello. caller: good morning how are you doing? host: fine, thanks. go ahead. caller: donald trump would love to have numbers like this. 6% under limit when donald trump left. 5 million people relate off. joe biden has totally reversed bat. -- that. unemployment 3.5. he has created 13 million jobs. but when you talk about gas prices when donald trump is in

there, there were 60 oil companies that went out of his news. do you remember when the price for a barrel of oil was down to a penny. ok then it had to go up because in order for the oil companies to make money oil companies had to be $60 and over. donald trump said that himself. pedro, the economy is doing better than it has ever been doing before. and donald trump cannot do a dad gone think about it because -- he is beaten about it. host: of next. republican. caller: hello. biden economics is nothing but a trump job re-created coming back after the pandemic. that is all it is every time. and with capitalism. before capitalism, we were doing white well. -- quite well.

can you tell me -- host: you can answer your own question if you wish. caller: it was through plundering and slavery. host: if that is a case then give us a measure of why you think bidenomics is not working specifically. caller: these are all the jobs that trump created after coming out of the pandemic. host: and what leads you to that conclusion? caller: what leads me to that conclusion? host: yes. caller: i mean, look at it. the jobs are coming back. they left because of the pandemic, and like you said, we are manufacturing, democrats said how will we do it by waving a magic lawn and dam if he did not do it. host: we have george in ohio.

caller: oh, no. i listen to the last few callers. i'm retired on social security. they say that inflation rate is 4.5% that cannot be. i looked up the statistics of the average price of the food basket in the united dates of 2019, through 2023. 2019 it was $157. today it is $193. so anybody who is calling saying everything is fine, inflation is worse. there's been deductions for inflation. inflation is on the money that you have after all and all the taxes. your net income. so if you hear anything about bernie sanders by the way. i am an and. he was talking crazy when -- trump about higher wages. well those wages that did get increased didn't even matter because inflation took more than

what it increase was. anybody on main street, i live in a small town, ask anybody, how the economy is doing. more problems than like last month. we had pride month. we had more problems in this nation that this and that. we have inflation problems, china problems, there is more albums, pedro, and tomorrow is independence day. host: that is george in ohio. the recent polling about the president handling of issues including the economy when it comes to the -- jobs. the president has 43 sent rating and 54 sent of disapproval of job handling -- 43% rating four and 54% of disapproval of job handling. -- they aggregate those and come up with an aggregate.

only 38% of that average is proving of the way he is disapproving. and the transportation secretary pete judge yesterday said about the old numbers of the resident handling of the economy and why they are so low. here is the response from the transportation secretary. >> we see low unemployment and the lowest job creation under any president ever. an unusually high rates of jobs. we see inflation falling, manufacturing returning to the u.s., a lot of effort and a lot of money goes into negativity to try to get people focusing on other things like some of the things that we were talking about in the cultural wars. certain figures are bringing this to the forefront again and again because i do -- i think they do not want to talk about the economic work they are doing. and they certainly do not want to talk about why they voted no

on the infrastructure package. you know, most of the house and senate republicans and legislative republicans do not want to dwell on why they said no to $35 amount caps on insulin or any of the other issues that are really affecting full area the other thing i noticed in the way that these things get digested in the public media. when something is a nebulous clean good -- it gets less attention. we are hitting the road to highlight the good work owing on. the work going on in terms of the long-term infrastructure improvements. short-term success as well like the government in pennsylvania with partnership from our department to get a highway back up running after it was taken out in a fiery tragic crash. these are the kind of problem solving that we -- there are some folks in washington who do not want to talk about this and they would rather talk about other stuff. our job is to make sure

americans see the full picture. that is why ucs not only working hard in our offices but also out on the road highlighting the actual solving and results we bring to the american people. host: the administration touting its bidenomics efforts and whether or not you think it is working. democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002, text us at (202) 748-8003. we will hear from the line for democrats bronx new york. this is darrell. hello. caller: hello i cannot believe that gaia tried to steal -- that guy tried to steal bidens of positive things that he has done for the country whereas the truth is, trump has taken credit for the economy behind his back

when obama did so much to bring the economy back. namely, i.e., the oil company giving them so much money and the biden care. host: we are talking about biden economics and whether or not it is working. caller: i think it is working because biden has actually -- i see it i self from new york -- myself that people in new york are doing much better than when there was trump. and they are from new york and i am from new york and drop just full people. host: when you say people are doing better in the bronx what do you mean? caller: creating jobs for small businesses.

people -- there are more independent, nonprofit organizations that are helping eat. -- helping people eat. the seniors are living pretty good and adding to the economy growing by having their relatives work for them as an example. host: ok. caller: so the biden administration i would say the biden administration -- i would take that any day over the truck administration. truck administration was actually -- trump administration. trump administration was actually an embarrassment. host: ok we got your point. let's go to the next caller. caller: in 23, there will be

like 14 are 15 of the top restaurant chains belly up. they will not be open anymore they will have 10-12 of the top food chains belly up. you just wait until the end of 23. host: how does that relate to so-called biden makes -- bidenomics? caller: if you want to have -- raise your wages they will have to shut down because they cannot raise it anymore. people are not going to the restaurant and they are tired of going to the store and paying five dollars for a gallon of milk. they want to to pay $9.40 yesterday for two loaves of bread. give me a break. and the guy that just called he's going to have to get his watermelon somewhere else. caller: ok i'm going to leave you there because about so watch what you're saying you call him. russell independent line. hello. caller: yes i was on the

republican line but i just want to be independent more because i cannot trust any of them. and they know that some people help one another. host: how does that relate to bidenomics and what you think about whether it is working or not? caller: adding democrats raise taxes and republicans are really low and they started out with the two dollars -- then went to three dollars and them five dollars. now they are doing pretty well a good job. but that is because i have people in virginia on the team like shanna o -- and mentions. host: ok is bidenomics working? that is what we are asking you in the course of the hour. if you want to give your thoughts on it as many of you had the numbers are on the screen. pick the number that best represents you. if you all in the last 30 days

if you can hold off on doing that today we would appreciate it. and if you want to text as your thoughts it is text us at (202) 748-8003. that is how you do that. again you can call the lines and take the one that best represents you. and these are callers giving their idea of bidenomics on tweets. and one says the economy has added 13 million jobs. black and hispanic american for unemployment it is at all-time lows. they say the it is growing the middle class and it is working. we see more jobs, more production, low and nation. and 34% of americans approve of biden handling of the economy and the white house is doubling down on their economy -- their policy focusing on this. i'm sure that those with negative wage growth want to hear this. and in louisiana one said president biden and people

believe we need to have a government land economy and they do not need to lead by government democracy. and the data continues to prove that president biden and the democratic economic i'll see our revitalizing the american economy through bold initiative and investment. today we build a stronger fairer future for all. and #akeem jeffries of the house. we deserve inflation is down and it has produced 13.1 million jobs. it is not just growing the middle class but we are actually doing it. those are reactions from numbers of congress. you can add those of yours to the mix. pennsylvania. hello. democrat line. caller: hello. i really see how people can see this is working. i am a cancer survivor and the price of prescriptions have gone

up. you know, i just cannot see it. you know, and look at him and you listen to him and some of the things he says are -- i cannot believe it. i am wondering if there should be an age limit here. he just seems confused. i just don't get it. host: bart in florida. republican line. you are next up. caller: a couple quick points. democrats are and comedians -- if there were not so bad -- to the point here, the democrats like to talk about how the limit rate was 6% win trump left office but the only thing that made it 6% is because a democratic state had not opened up yet. it would have been higher if the republican states had not open in the summer of 2020.

also, the inflation rate in the country as -- the american people, every american citizen as been hit with somewhere between seven and $9,000 of inflation caused -- the 7000 and $9,000 of inflation cost a year. every american. how could anybody think this is good? incredible. thank you. host: anton in north carolina. independent line, you are next up. caller: yes, let me remind all of these other previous callers that just called in that the private sector. the private sector is what, is what most of the yeah -- the economy is based on in the united states. the boot sector. we do we -- it is the middle -- we grow from the bottom up, not the top down.

and also, -- and i do not agree with what biden said when he -- when he said biden economics is not working. matter of fact, it is not working because you can see other prices going up. for the record, i'm not going to vote for him in 2020 or. host: when you say -- 2024. host: when you say it is not working, give me an example. caller: look at the cost of the previous callers saying for milk and stuff and the grocery prices are going up, gas is going up, it is not right. it is just not right. it's not working. caller: you see price hikes they are raleigh, and me an example. caller: yes i am. milk has gone up, gas has gone up. everything is going up. the electricity bills are going up. your cable and satellite tv bills are going up.

i mean it is ridiculous absolutely ridiculous. host: why specifically do you think that is the president doing? caller: is not the president i think it is the policies. it is not just the president but he has economic advisors who are giving bad advice. like is that before, like a said the private sector, you know, the private sector is what makes the economy go, not the government. host: that is anton in north carolina. bloomberg looks at recent inflation numbers posted on the 30th of june. saying the federal reserve measure of inflation pulled in may and consumers spending stagnated. the personal consumption expenditure price index rose 0.1% in may according to that department. and a year ago, in more than two years, it is the lowest it's been. consumer spending prices were little changed after a downward

revised .2% gain in april. and how spending essentially stalled after the first search. spending on merchandise outlays for services increase. more there if you want to take a look at bloomberg's write up on the matters of nation -- inflation. many of you look at that as a factor of if it is biden -- if bidenomics is working. democrat line. hello. caller: hello. i am connected with the economy and many ways. i am in agriculture, retail, i have an environmental company. bidenomics is not working at all. it has caused increases on the consumer factory by an fuel has gone up high. they brought up milk, milk is high at the grocery store. if you really go

to the farmer, right now milk is down to like i think 15 -- $15 which is very low in the milk industry it is very hard to make money with $50 on milk. oil is working well now because prices are up in a better place. when you say everything is -- the small restaurant are not doing well, a lot of them are having a hard struggle, but ones that seem to work things like mcdonald's right now, since the pandemic, has tripled their prices. these are just factors that are costing us one side, interest is going up, really interest is not high end of a person cannot make since percent -- 6% you should not be in it.

-- host: that is roger in kansas. others putting out their thoughts on the matter. tax and policies have run our economy and. inflation is hurting our families. and harming our farmers. bidenomics does not work. -- they have republican majority whip with red exes through things like higher gas and diesel, and affordable groceries, higher interest rates, adding baby formula shortages to the mix. twitter is where legislators are putting out their thoughts you can put out your thoughts as well on twitter @cspanwj that is how you do that. this is dave republican line. caller: bidenomics is a joke.

if i cannot go to a grocery store, and not pay more -- less than $100 it doesn't matter what is in the park. -- those at home are sitting out with their hand out from a next idiotic polled that biden has. you cannot go pay less than $20 for a hamburger and fries. 50% of the people, the reason why they are dissatisfied, look at the people, the statistics. your supporting biden and i don't know why you can't even walk because the house. host: if you're spending 150 dollars on groceries how does that compare if you were buying the same thing a couple years ago? caller: 85 would have been a lot. but right now you cannot walk in and spend less than over $100. host: matt in plano, texas.

democrat. caller: hello, good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would ask those of you who are saying bidenomics is not working i would say look at your own representatives to make sure what they are talking about is the life that you care about. i am here in texas, gas prices are way down from last summer. i'm definitely paying less to fill my gas tank. when you look at any economic measure $90 billion in private sector investment because of the chips and science act, you look at the investment in infrastructure whether it is high-speed internet or the infrastructure -- secretary pete buttigieg earlier you show the clip him going around the country highlighting rail and water projects that are helping underserved communities, i am

just saying, you look at every -- host: are you saying those things are taking effect now? they probably will not take effect for a while. caller: true it will probably take a while for some of the investments but those dollars are direct investments in those communities that need it the most. so yes, it's going to take time, but by the way, summer travel is at an all-time high. i saw a story that summer travel is higher than 2019 that is pre-pandemic. so it bidenomics was not working why do people have more discretionary income to travel? that is one thing i would say to people who keep trying to doubt bidenomics go ahead and see where we are in six months. but my personal stance and with the people i know in and around plano, texas bino -- bidenomics is working.

host: ok point taken. he mentioned driving in this holiday weekend. those a aaa saying drivers that hit the road will find a get in lower gas prices across the country. in the forecast says more than 50 million people celebrate this nation's birthday by traveling with a record of 43 2 million going by car. the national average fell for since since last week. and gas prices are $1.30 cheaper than last year. they are higher than historical average. that is the people at aaa. that average high price of gas was $4.10 in 2008 while you'll -- while the low was -- $2.39 in 2009. but with the extra expense the drivers are not cutting back on travel this summer. and ron desantis on his twitter

feed put out a video looking at the matter of economics and connecting it to the biden administration. here is that. >> turn things around quickly. >> americans are feeling the economic pressure of the house. >> we are told that inflation will be transitory. >> it works. >> it because each family about $7,000 extra. >> every american has training and education to bridges abated in the new economy. -- to participate in the new economy. >> we have the longest stretch in history. >> homes, real wages are down 5.1%. this is he took office. >> the investment in technology lowers the cost of wind. >> solar and wind do not provide reliable energy.

those companies are losing money on the deal. >> biden economics will turn this around. >> we are about to essentially drive half of our pizza business out of new york because of the new laws regarding ovens. it is not. -- nuts. >> inflation is leading to wage growth leaving many americans struggling to stay afloat. >> many americans know it is harder to make ends meet under joe biden as resident -- president. host: let's hear from thomas in redline, pennsylvania. independent. is bidenomics working? hello? . caller: i can understand why our country is in tough shape, but i feel like we are headed in the right direction. i think one of the big problems is that we still have a former

who is just spouting false and misleading statements about his own record. i wish republicans would care enough about our country to actually look at his record. as a perfect example, even covid , the first 35 months of his administration, if you go back 35 -- the 35 but previous for obama he outpaced him in job creation. but when you have one person making those statements, it looks like we are going downhill. host: as far as the current president how do you think about the current idea with bidenomics and whether it is working or not. caller: again, we have made, we are not going through depression but the pandemic was certainly an economic hit. i think we are growing out of it, but it will never be fast

enough for a lot of people and i am comfortable with his policies. if you look at history, i hate to say it, but the democrats have a better economic linder than republicans. that mean something to me. host: let's hear from one in ohio. republican. caller: good morning. host: you're on go ahead. caller: ok, good. pricewise somebody was going about in nation -- inflation. but it used to be -- five dollars for coupons. it used to be free and go right down to their menu. all the gp -- cheat chains -- cheap could get a burger for

five bucks and now it is almost $10. everything keeps going up, they cannot hire workers, i went to bodyshop last week, and then i walked across the street to her cooking and was going to get a burger. it was 6:00 and they were closing and the reason was because they had nobody to work. it's nuts. anyway, for whatever it is worth, i am a retired realtor and i get people calling all the time. clients and whatever guys are making $15 an hour, literally they cannot buy any kind of house. in any neighborhood you want to live in and that is bidenomics thank you. host: we take a look at the idea of bidenomics from a different

perspective. this is the washington post on jualki about the exhalation -- election campaign. it is likely to sound inauthentic from somebody elected to theate first 50 years ago. -- biz president has the most do. and he will go down in history he gets everything ry injured -- high-speed internet.d and most republicans does or should only represent- reaping the greatest benefit and making universal broadband possible. they now have money pouring into their state. and mr. biden promised to be a president for all americans and that is how he is governing. he has results for red, blue, and purple states. and the washington journal king a different stance where they wrote in 1982, 80 four dollars which -- the average

hourly es -- when mr. biden took office, it declined immediately and it did not stop falling until it nation eat in never back $11.03 in may. three 16% decline in earnings for the average worker. department statistics.or mr. biden cannot deny them so someone in the chicago remarks saying they pag load -- pay low-wage workersresult of over two decades. i woullike to see them justify at one. the editors of the wall street journal say -- who will you believe me or your eyes? i believe that american should believe their own eyes. host: that is one of the editorials looking at the topic. we hear from truck next. -- check next. -- chuck next.

caller: i want to wish everyone a happy independence day tomorrow. and -- [indiscernible] here for the whole dam world. that is all i can say everybody have a good day. host: he hung up. let's hear from cleveland ohio. independent line. caller: hello. i wanted to say, it people should be voting for the person because i think independent voters really look at the person more so. people have to keep in mind about the pandemic which did not have to be as bad as it was. these viruses the mars, sorrows, and ebola has been here before. the united states had to step out front and they had boots on the ground where they go to different countries and test the people at the airport. we did not do that this time so we are trying to come out from the past pandemic.

it is not been like that for over 100 years. people need to do their research, get off of twitter and up believing everything that is on twitter. host: before you go further. the topic of bidenomics where you at right now? caller: that is where i am mad. with bidenomics he is trying. you need to look at the stuff he is trying to do. the republicans are trying to deny it. $15 an hour is nothing that should have been. we are looking at all of the billionaires now that do not need to be a billionaire and millionaire is enough. start dividing and sharing some of that wealth. host: you are saying he is trying but it is -- is it working? that is what we are posing people. what do you think? caller: yeah, it is working. host: why do you think that? caller: because things are getting better. i agree that it could be better,

but we need this up turning everything down. look at how hard they had to fight for the infrastructure the united states is basically old we should not have bridges falling or water with -- but does not bathe in. he we need to look at some of our rivers. we cannot -- made than them or swim in them. that is not make sense. host: in connecticut, republican line. caller: good morning. we are in a labor productivity trap. it is a single part of biden's agenda, but what is happening when wage is trying to catch up to inflation, since activity is negative, labor will never catch up to inflation. the wage rate, and what will happen is if this keeps that we will have a reduced standard of living. it is all about increased holidays, increase benefits, but labor productivity is not part of the agenda.

host: greg is next joining us from texas democrat line. caller: good morning. i want to -- just give me a little time. this economy is doing outstanding. i don't nobody running around here talking about you use your credit card will you boot gash you should be able to get a job -- you should be able to get a job and not use a credit card. the economy is doing good but i am not voting anymore because it does not matter what we are going to do they are saying were going to do were going to do and that is what is going on people come in saying they are conservative. host: hold on. using credit card is the full measure that you use to see the economy and how it is doing. elaborate on that. caller: so other words people are broke and have no money. and if you go to a new job, you put your money in your account on your credit card so you use

your credit card. the economy is doing good. they gas and fuel and everything he read you cannot go in the store in nothing, but the thing about this is the people that are running on the same old to get as god to do for the goal of color. and -- [indiscernible] host: we got a ramsey independent line. in virginia, you are. caller: you are -- i chose to be an american rate i could have been anywhere. other dear since 1981. -- we talk about the certain economics. and since then, all of this -- used to effect in the public. and i would go to tennessee and i was republican, this did not work for reagan, bush, it did not work -- and certainly did

not work with trump. now every time a democrat comes and takes this economy, we give the reagan economics -- and we give it 40 years to work. and i think it did not work. now it is biden. the biden economics. and what he has done. this does not make sense. it is not going to turn it around in 24 months. host: he is making his own case that the economy is turning around because of the policies he but in a -- in place. caller: of course he is and i agree with him that it is. inflation is going down, gas prices are going down, labor is coming to 3% which by any economist standard it is for employment -- good for employment.

the people who went to work and buy american products, getting out of the pandemic, and all we hear is that trump was good. i've voted for him the first time. he was a great guy, great person. he screwed up, he could not take care of a person when the pandemic came around. i sorry but it happens when a person becomes president he gets challenges and -- host: ok you made your point. thank you for that. i want to show you the interview with gretchen when berg and from that state talking about bidenomics and how it is impacting her state. here is a portion. >> the president's plans are working out. as you pointed out, low inflation, job growth, it is amazing what is going on in the economy right now.

people's tendency to move on to the next thing and of course we have big challenges, but the president's plan is working. here in michigan we will get $2.4 billion for broadband that will apply to all communities. 90% of the houses in this issue will be connected because of what president biden has done. bidenomics is working and i think people will see it when they are driving seeing orange barrels and vasey work being done -- they see work being done. and you know when president biden is leading our lives are getting better and i think that is something that all americans get -- benefit from. host: on twitter feed there is a tweet on behalf -- not on the behalf of the people. and one say if it is designed to make people more poor than ever then yes, it is working well.

and once at absolutely we have -- wealthy americans -- through the 1950's and 60's we had -- 50 to 90% our median quadruple. and then map on twitter saying it is working and how the market remains strong overall and traveling at an all-time high. we have water and rail improvement. helping with soda -- underserved communities like eastern kentucky. you can make your thoughts known at -- on twitter feed at [video clip] [video clip] journal@c-span.org. host: -- sonia in maryland. democrat line. caller: hello.

i think the biden -- bidenomics is working. he is doing an excellent job with infrastructure because the roads were terrible out here in the maryland area. when i got on 495 it is better. and i think they are working on it now as a matter of fact. also as far as broadband, we need that. you don't understand. you need broadband. when i walk out you will be at risk, you need internet and we needed -- need it all of of the country. i am proud that biden is in office and i will vote for him again. i hope he continues to make this economy better. the best is a lot better. -- the gas is a lot better. you have a guy about restaurants and burgers and all of that, if you download -- if he downloads an app, you can get a whole meal

for five dollars. so the economy is coming back the way you're supposed to be, and biden is doing an excellent job. host: that is sonia in maryland. news outside of economics but economic related secretary janet yellen will travel to her -- i think her first trip to china to talk with the leadership they are the washington post writes she will have multiple meetings of -- with china leadership as a part of the country partnership -- with issues such as a global economy, debt relief, potential cooperation on climate change. this story also adding that she intends to at -- elaborate on comments that she made in april about helping economic ties between the worlds two largest economies. could dominate relations according to senior administration officials who

spoke on the condition of anonymity. this is john, queens, new york. republican line. caller: i'm sorry i may have called the wrong line. i meant to call the democratic line. david: let's hear from murray democrats line, hello. caller: good morning, pedro. it wasn't about biden was in office it was something that came on c-span and people called and said they couldn't afford hamburger meat and eggs. my question was the four years that trump was in office and the republicans said that was the best they had ever done i'm saying for five months after he's out of office you are going about you can't pay for hamburger meat? i'm trying to figure out if honestly did trump actually with did he do for you?

i wanted to bring up something because i keep hearing people calling about the food, i think about the documentary i watched about several years ago. it was between an american soldier and vietnamese older. the american soldier asked the vietnamese soldier he said i always wondered why did you call keep writing? you never gave up, why did you keep fighting? in the vietnamese soldier told the american soldier we couldn't outlast your weapons but we knew that you couldn't outlast our poverty. so when i hear these people talking about the food and stuff, it makes me think if a war was to break out in this country how would they survive? host: that's marie there. finishing off calls for this hour. several guests joining as for the course of the morning. brookings institution scholar to

discuss campaign 2024 and pulls will be open to a voter between an independent candidate. washington times mark mccarroll on this podcast, history as it happens. in a deep dive into the declaration of independence. those segments and more coming up on "washington journal". >> its 1979, partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage from the halls of congress, the house, and senate floors to congressional hearing, and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government.

>> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what's happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with events from the u.s. congress, white house offense, the court, campaigns and more from the world of politics. i'll at your fingertips. you can also stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal" and find it scheduling information for c-span's tv network and c-span radio plus a variety of different podcasts. c-span now is available on apple store and google play. watch anytime, anywhere. >> fiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors.

here wide-ranging conversations with the nonfiction authors and others for making things happen. book notes plus episodes, a weekly hour-long conversation that you choose fascinating authors of nonfiction books on a wide variety of topics. and the about books podcasts takes you behind the scenes industry with industry updates and best seller lists. download the free c-span now app or where ever you get your podcasts. visit our website c-span .com/podcasts. host: our first guest serves as a study senior fellow also they frequent columnist with the best thank you for being here. i want to read a recent column of years taking a group from the

second the headline says no labels may reelect donald trump. the no labels effort and your concerns about it. to start, remind people what no labels is and what role you served in it. guest: sure. no labels was founded as i recall not long after the election and the founding purpose of the organization was to find ways of getting the two political parties to work together more effectively on legislation that would serve the common good and the common interest of the american people. proposed a number of procedural reforms in congress and most important, no labels founded a bipartisan caucus called problem solvers. made up of equal numbers of democrats and republicans in the house of representatives. they did an anonymous amount of good work promoting and

achieving bipartisan results on infrastructure and many other areas as well. i was part of it from the beginning as a kind of unpaid senior advisor. most people are volunteers and unpaid. host: as far as specific concerns about the efforts about a third party possibly in 2024 is that why you left the group? guest: i issued a statement in which i made it clear that i thought the motives of the group were admirable but that in proposing an independent bipartisan candidacy, their judgment was flawed. their assessment of the likely results was flawed. i did not believe and still do not believe that the effort has any substantial chance of actually electing an independent bipartisan ticket for reasons

deeply rooted in american history. this effort, if it were launched and it's still not clear that it will be will draw more from joe biden then donald trump and that was not an outcome that i welcomed. host: why do you think that would happen? guest: a very simple reason. the republican party is far more dominantly conservative then the democratic party is liberal. they've got twice as many people who call themselves moderate or even conservative in the democratic party that call themselves moderate or even liberal in the conservative party. it is a centrist ticket which i'm quite sure that it will be, i think in principle that coalition of the centrist is going to draw more votes away from moderate democrats then it is from the relatively few

number of moderates in the republican party. host: you may have seen this interview, the cofounder talked about this decision. that they might move forward with the justification of why they were doing it. >> there are many people, especially on the left who will come after you because they believe a third party option would pull voters away from biden but that trump would still win. there also is an accusation out there, you tell me, no labels is saying that if ron desantis is not the nominee, then you will decide to go ahead and do this. what's the clarity on that? >> let me set the record straight. our focus is -- is there is an opening for this ticket, a unity ticket just remember what this is one republican, one democrat walking into that white house

finally getting results for the american people, if it's clear that they don't want the choices and this is a winning ticket and we can win and not spoil, we are going to go do it. if it looks for any reason like this is going to spoil it please step down. we are not cowboys here. we want to give americans the choice and they'll decide. host: it sounds like they are building guardrails to get over those concerns that you express. what do you think? guest: i know no labels very well. they are honorable people. their effort is not a stalking horse to reelect donald trump. i'm quite sure of that. but i think it's going to be more difficult than they imagined to make the judgment that they are not viable in time to ward off that result.

because they are going to be, as i understand it, nominating their ticket in mid april. at that point, the polls will not be terribly revealing. i speak from experience here. one of my first ventures into national politics was as a speechwriter for the national unity campaign of 1980 which featured a bipartisan ticket of john anderson and pat lucy, former democratic governor. john anderson was sort of a moderate to liberal republican. and when i joined the campaign, the anderson campaign was within hailing distance of jimmy carter in the polls. i felt, when the votes were cast, they ended up with under 7% of the vote. so the question is not just what

people are thinking and saying when the answer posters questions. what are they thinking and saying? and what people say unable is not necessarily what they will say in september and october. i in very worried that there may be more initial enthusiasm for the idea of a bipartisan to get them there is actual support for it. six months after its announced but by then i think it will be very difficult. remember, each state has different procedures for getting on the ballot and each state has different procedures for getting off the ballot once you're on it. and getting out is a complicated procedure in some states, not in all. so i don't doubt the sincerity of the declarations that don't intend to be spoilers.

i take them at their word. the question is how are they going to carry that intention into operation? host: if you want to ask questions about campaign 2024 and other issues we will discuss them (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8002 for dependent -- independents and if you want to texas -- text us (202) 748-8003. taking look at the group no labels. the story says those donors are pretty much not revealed but are there any -- is there any way you can shed any information? guest: i was never interested or involved with the money side of the operation. i was in informal, unpaid advisor on issues, policies,

some political analysis and i had no financial nexus for the organization. frankly, didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the financial side. the leader of the organization, nancy jacobson is one of the great fundraisers of our time. she made the organization work on the financial side and i simply cooperated in other ways. so i cannot shed any light on that part of the operation. host: let's talk about third parties overall. there was a recent poll done by nbc support for a third-party or independent candidate it was going to be a contest between rmer president trump and currentresident, 44% of those restered voters said they would probably would coid an other candidate, 45of democrats, 52% would not. 34% of republicans would consider another candidate, 53%

said they would not. when it comes to those third parties, what do these numbers suggest to you about where america is on that? guest: let me make two points. first of all, it's not surprising that the american people or a fair number of them are expressing their willingness to consider such a ticket. but there a big gap between being willing to consider it and actually deciding to support it. that's point number one. point number two the numbers that you just cited are very interesting because they make my point. the difference in levels of support between the two political parties for the idea of an independent ticket. it was 45% of democrats who are willing to consider it and only

34% of republicans, something like that. host: yeah. guest: well, in a close election the fact that more democrats then republicans are willing to support such a ticket can make all the difference in the world read let me remind the viewers that we have been locked for decades now into a sequence of increasingly close presidential contest and in both 2016 and 2020 the shift of under 100,000 votes in a handful of key states billy have made the difference between victory and defeat for the candidate. that is a small fraction of 1% of votes cast. the asymmetry of 45% versus 34%, i don't want to put too much weight on these very early numbers but they're suggestive

they could easily make the difference in a handful of swing states. i think that people who believe that this withdrawal evenly from the two political parties, which some independent candidates like prospero did, but others like george wallace did not should think again about that assumption. because i don't think it is correct. i don't think it's likely to be correct if a ticket goes forward. host: then there's the issue of getting that ticket on the ballot, not only statewide but national in the process of doing that is it too difficult for a third-party to enter into this? guest: it is not too difficult. as a matter affected to expect that if no labels perseveres it would end up on nearly all, if not all the state ballots. i say that in part because of my

experience in the anderson campaign more than four decades ago, we had much less money than the labels does and not as good an organization but we ended up on all 50 state ballots. not only that, in the process of getting on all the state ballots we overturned a number of restricted laws designed to tilt the playing field against ballot access for third-party and independent candidates and many of those legal changes have persisted to this day. so no labels should have an easier time then we did getting on the ballot in all or virtually all of the states. host: talking about campaign 2024 the lines are open to you if you want to call, you can text us at (202) 748-8003. let's start with sal in massachusetts. good morning, go ahead. caller: just want to say that hopefully the democrats would

take white house and sweet the congress and everything else. only because the republican congress if it's any indication of what republicans are going to do anything future, you can say they're not going to do nothing. they want to do is investigate, conspiracies, and everything else that doesn't matter about american people involved. hopefully the democrats will prevail. thank you. guest: i think in some ways sal has understated the case. i don't quite agree with him that the only thing the republican house wants to do is investigate. they also want to cut spending quite dramatically and as a matter of fact they may be willing to shut down the government to make their point.

along with many other americans, i think we need to take a good, hard look at the fiscal condition of the country which is not sound. but, in order to do that in a way that serves the interest of the american people we are going to have to look at a lot more discretionary spending. what is appropriated every year in the 12 appropriations bills. for going to have to take a structural look at the federal budget and figure out how we can put it on a sustainable course for the long term. that's not going to be easy and it with the house republicans are trying to do will not make it any easier in my judgment. host: president biden banking his reelection campaign of biden-omics. what do you think of that as an approach? guest: in most elections, the

economy is a central issue whether it's good or bad. so i think mr. biden is on a sound course when he puts the economy front and center. i'm not sure i entirely agree with the president's analysis of the american people's concerns about the economy. my sense of the matter is that they are more concerned about inflation and high prices than his recent speech in chicago laying out his economic case would suggest. and my hunch is that over time the president and his proxy speakers will have to address that issue more directly. i know i sure the hopes of all americans that the rate of inflation can be brought down to acceptable levels throughout --

without triggering a recession and throwing lots of people out of work. that remains to be seen. i know the federal reserve board is concerned and a little surprised that raising interest rates from zero to 5% very quickly hasn't brought inflation down faster than it has. so stay tuned. host: eric in lincoln, nebraska. independent line, your next go ahead. caller: thank you so much for taking my call. i always appreciate the efforts of third-party candidates and parties to hurt the logjam between the democrat and republican parties. elections in countries often developing countries like afghanistan was the last one i was thinking of. that have long lists of candidates on their ballots.

is there any indication that that kind of system works to that countries benefit and what kind of system allows for that kind of ballot? thank you. guest: the systems in many countries are parliamentary rather than presidential. and in those systems tend to have lots and lots of political parties. some are quite small, others large and even dominant. so in those presidential elections, you will get lots of candidates. to be fair, you get lots of candidates in the united states as well. take a look at the presidential ballot sometimes. but nobody thinks that anyone except the top two have a

serious chance to win. we have an entirely different system. the founders did not plan for a party system. they emphatically did not want a party system but by the middle of the 1790's we had pretty much settled into the pattern that is dominated -- has dominated history ever since. there has never been a stable third-party in the united states of any consequence that has lasted for very long. so, i think these systems in other countries are interesting to study but for not likely to replicate them in the united states. our parliamentary --are

parliamentary systems better? that is a long-standing debate among scholars. suffice to say there are advantages and disadvantages to both. you get some advantages from stable, four-year predictable presidential terms were governments do not collapse because of coalitions not agreeing on what to do. there are disadvantages as well. host: our guest from brookings institution, tim, new york, independent line. caller: good morning. before i get to my question in regard to third-party candidates that like to make a couple of points you brought up earlier. number one, prices are being kept on -- unofficially had by ceos of companies that report to their stockholders. they are keeping them high on purpose because that's how profits are made. that's number one. number two, biden economics is

working and i'll tell you why. republicans in districts that are having services restored or amplified, you know, whether it be infrastructure or broadband or when not republicans in these districts are taking credit for something that they voted against. so that's number two. now my question, in regard to third-party candidates is this. i heard by people that are smarter than me that a third-party candidate would always benefit the republicans. why is it that it never seems to benefit democrats? could you into that for me, sir? thank you. guest: the reason, the reason is this, take a look at two cases. if you have third-party candidacies on the left for example as we did in 2016 with jill stein by definition, that

party will either draw left leaning voters who don't participate because they think the democratic party is to moderate or left-leaning voters who tend to associate with the democratic party except i may an alternative on the left that they think is more attractive as many did in 2016. which made the difference between victory and defeat for hillary clinton. so that's one case. the second case is the one we've been addressing from time to time on the show this morning. the party of the center and as i explained there are simply more center leaning voters in the democratic party then there are in the republican party. so that also hurts democrats. the only situation where a third-party would benefit democrats would be if there is a party on the right that draws

voters who otherwise would vote republican some people think that the libertarian party does that but there hasn't been break away parties of any significance to the right of the republican party that have done any damage to republican party prospects in quite some time. if such a party arises, then i would say the same thing about that party and its effects on republicans then i would say about the green party and its effect and jill stein, people like that and their impact on democrats. host: politico as a graphic this morning. all of those who have declared interest in running for the white house the current field standing at 14. what you think about that kind of number in the early part of the process? guest: the experience the

republicans had any 2016 when multiple candidates canceled each other out and engaged in a strategy of mutual annihilation leaving the lien clear for donald trump to roll to victory. a lot of people who are now in the race say they don't want that to happen. but unless they can get together and agree on one or two preferred alternatives to donald trump i think the same outcome is increasingly likely in 2024. same as 2016, namely mr. trump may not command an absolute majority of the party but if you have 1300 candidates dividing up the non-trump boat then mr. trump wins by default. this is a real challenge for the republican party that doesn't believe for one reason or another that nominating donald trump for a third consecutive try for the presidency is necessarily the best way for the

party to go. host: calling from the wall street journal despite whether the presidential candidate is you write that that person must find america's moral center. can you elaborate on that? guest: yes. america is divided, especially on social and cultural issues. and although it's divided, in many instances, there is a center of gravity that neither political party has been able to find. let's take abortion as an example. after the dobbs decision, many democrats wanted to write a program abortion pill into law, a bill that would go harder than roe v. wade did in opening the

abortion procedure up too many, many people who want to avail themselves of it. on the right, many republicans want to enact a national abortion ban. that would be very restrictive. and it surveys indicate that most, most americans are somewhere in the middle. don't want a van but they don't want an open door either. they favor it under some circumstances but not others. they are much more hospitable to abortion pretty much unrestricted in the first trimester of pregnancy, pretty much opposed to it in the third trimester of pregnancy and the second trimester is the area where they put thumbs-up or thumbs down depending on particular conditions and circumstances.

we actually could reach a much greater level of agreement on the issue then the two political parties have allowed us to see. and you can go, you can go through many other issues, emigration for example. and find a lot more common ground in the positions of the two major political parties would suggest exist. and the first major party that seizes that common ground, i think would be the dominant party in the country for a very long time to come and one of the great mysteries of american politics or it looks mysterious until you dig deeper is why neither political party has been inclined to seize that center. each one has paid more attention to its louder and more

ideological voices. i think that's a political mistake that the parties keep on making it. host: let's hear from anthony in chicago, illinois, democrat lane. caller: i would like to know if i could ask a question about the polls that you guys be showing on your program. where are these polls coming from and when has a nationwide poll been done on a presidential race in the last three or four cycles? host: the first was an nbc poll, we should all the time of this program from a variety of sources whether it be the sources, snapshot decisions or at least estimates on where people are at on certain things. at this point, how much attention should we be paying to

these principles? -- kinds of poles? guest: the polls we are getting are pretty much snapshots. if they are done while they are accurate snapshots of public opinion at a particular point in time. the predicted value, especially at this stage is very weak indeed. people who look at national polls a year or a year and a half before an actual 11 have been full time after time after time. as restricted get closer to actual elections whether primary or general elections, the printed valuable increase. having said that some polls are a lot better than others. for your brady reasons first of all, when you're doing a national poll in many of these polls, to answer the questioners query many of these polls are

national polls. you have to have a valid sample of the american people or registered voters or some other group. whatever it is your probing and getting a valid sample, getting 1000 people to stand for the nation as a whole takes real work. it takes skill, experience, the appropriate technical methods. secondly, answers are only as good as the questions. if a poll asked questions that are poorly designed or slanted in one direction or another then the results are going to reflect that poor design and readers and consumers will be ill-advised to rely on the findings that they offer. there are services that greig polls --rig polls like the

website fivethirtyeight.com is in the is this of reading polls based on their accuracy and reliability over time other organizations do so as well. as with many other things, in order to learn from polls, you have to be a prudent consumer of the polls and that isn't always very easy for people who don't spend a lot of time doing it, which i do because my job gives me the luxury of time to do things like that. host: this is damien in maryland. caller: good morning, sir. the greatest third party is ross perot but he lost it because of his vp. his vp went on snl and made fun of him and he never recovered. it soberly to look at the

presidential thing but joe biden always goes around saying he reduced the budget 1.7 trillion and that sounds like baloney to me. host: ok. that's damien there in maryland. guest:well, i'm in no position to tell damien that it doesn't so mike baloney to him and in effect there has been a robust about the number it's technically correct what it actually represents is a matter of dispute what is not in dispute is for the long term we ought on a sustainable budgetary course and were going to have to do something about it sometime. the political system doesn't seem ready to do what needs to be done right now but i do hope

that as the time gets closer but will start to think more seriously about the problem which for various reasons were not doing right now. host: assuming that we come to a place where it is indeed 2024 turns into a rematch between president biden and former president trump what would you label the strengths and vulnerabilities of each candidate as they make their campaign for the white house? guest: let's start with donald trump. he has a base of fervent support. he received 46% of the vote in 2016 and if memory serves, 40% percent of the vote in 2020 i don't think he's going to fall under those numbers. which means that he has a solid

foundation to build on whether what he's done since leaving the presidency for occupying the presidency will enable him to move from 46 or 47% to the much higher percentage he's going to need to win this time around unless there's a third party that draws off democratic support is anybody's guess. he is a vigorous campaign or and at times can be entertaining although he overestimates he's entertainment value sometimes. joe biden is the incumbent president. which according to the political scientists i respect already is a plus. he has a substantial record of legislative accomplishments.

he has run a relatively steady administration. although the withdrawal from afghanistan was not an example of steady management, unfortunately. there are real economic pluses that he can point to on the minor site he's not a terribly inspiring campaigner and most of all for the fairly or not many americans doubt that his age will permit him to serve a second term effectively or to the end of the second term and in my view mr. biden's central challenge is to weaken the impression that he would not be

up to a second term if there a vigorous campaign he can persuade the american people that he will be able to serve a second term successfully i think the odds will favor him next year. if he can't, it will be a coin flip. host: let's hear from phil in minnesota, independent line is for calling. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i have a question what do you think of a independent party that tries to attract educated women and immigrants that made this platform of indigenous and tribal group decision-making thank you. guest: i've heard of lot of questions i haven't heard that one before.

but my senses that if you had a political party dominantly made up of educated women, immigrants, and native americans that would be a party that would be much more appealing to the sorts of people who usually vote democratic then to the sorts of people who usually vote republican in any event it would not be a majority party, not even close. host: baba in sterling, virginia. independent line. caller: thanks a lot. there is an easy and reasonable solution to end all these arguments for walking third-party candidates on the ballot i think a lot of americans favor third-party because they are fed up with the two-party we have running this

country the solution is the use of a rug choice system. i'd be interested in hearing the guess, about rank-choice voting because that would end all this discussion and we would have a democratic system for the people could actually elect the candidate that they truly believe in. thank you. host: father in virginia. guest: rink choice voting has its advantages and disadvantages i agree with. i think we would be better off if we had such a system. it has been used in municipalities across the country. it is now the law of the state of maine and the state of alaska. new york city used a version of it in its most recent mayoral election and i think that the caller is correct that many of

the arguments of third parties as spoilers would be weakened or eliminated. if we had a voting system that permitted the reallocation of votes of small parties to the candidates who are more likely to win after the first round has been counted. obviously, if you have an independent party that does very well then a ranked choice voting system wouldn't eliminate that party it would give it a chance to survive and maybe go on to claim a majority. but at least the votes wouldn't be wasted and they wouldn't at the end of the day have a distorted effect on the outcome of the general election. so yes, by all means i hope that more states adopt the

rank-choice voting system many critics say that it's too complicated for average voters to understand and practice i believe that has been not the case and i think it's one of the more productive electoral innovations of recent decades. host: our guest writes a frequent column for wall street journal. give us a preview of what you will write about next. guest: in light of the supreme court's case as currently practiced. my column is devoted to the task of creating genuine equality of the committee in education and higher education and what colleges and universities can do

you create a genuinely level playing field including getting rid of the kinds of preferences that they now give to the children of wealthy donors, the children of alumni, to the children of their own faculty. there are all sorts of things that universities continue to open up spaces for more representative student bodies without compromising their quest for educational excellence in any way. host: the work a found at brookings.edu. senior fellow for the institution as always, thank you for your time analysis. guest: it's been my pleasure. host: coming out people talk with washington times martin de cairo. it takes a look at the deep dive of the declaration of independence before independence day. later on in the program tv host

and author alexander hefner he sits on with politicians on both sides of the aisle in an effort to form political stability. those conversations coming up on "washington journal". ♪ >> celebrate independence day during our july 4 sale going on at c-span shop.org. save up to 35% on all c-span