's rule. it was a universal matter. >> her book, greg memory sunday night on c-span's una. you can listen to q and they and all of our podcasts on our -- q and a podcasts on our website or mobile app. >> c-span out features what is happening in washington life and on demand. hearing some u.s. congress, white house events, the court, campaigns and more from the world of politics at your fingertips and stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal" and find schedules for radio and

television and compelling podcasts. she's been out is available at the apple store and google play. your front row seat to washington, anytime, anywhere. >> coming up this morning, we will talk about the amount of credit card debt facing americans as the estimated total nears $1 trillion. we will speak to ted rossman and we will discuss foreign policy including the russia-ukraine war and a new review of the 2021 withdraw from afghanistan. "washington journal starts now. ♪ host: good morning. we will begin with the unofficial record of the high temperatures. the earth's hottest day in

125,000 years. renewing the debate over climate change. we will spend our first hour getting your view on the topics. (202) 748-8000 democrats, (202) 748-8001, republicans, (202) 748-8002 independents. you can send a text to (202) 748-8003. and you can go to @cspanwj. if you on climate change. the number one take away, a majority of americans support the american becoming carbon neutral by 2050. at nearly seven in 10 americans favorite u.s. taking steps to

become carbon neutral, a goal outlined by president biden. number two, americans are reluctant to phase out fossil fuels but younger adults are more open to the idea. number three, the public incentivizes wind and solar energy production. number four, americans see room for multiple actors, including corporations and the federal government to do more to address the impact of climate change. number five, democrats and republicans have grown further apart in the last decade in their assessments of the threat posed by climate change. number six, climate change is a low priority for americans than other national issues. do you agree or disagree? how would you answer it if you were given a chance to take it?

while we wait for your talks -- thoughts, president biden was in california last month talking about steps to combat climate change. [video clip] pres. biden: i have toured many sites that show climate change is the existential threat to humanity. here in california, the government -- governor and i stood together after touring the damage done from the devastating storms that caused historic flooding and killed 21 people. that comes on the heels of the worst drought in california and more than a millennia. i haven't seen wildfire devastation across the west burning more acres to the -- i have seen wildfire devastation across the west burning acres.

historic tornadoes. last week, you saw what you have seen in california, millions of americans sheltering indoors, the air not safe to breathe. orange haze covering the sky. it is incredible. to address the wildfire smoke coming from canada, we are sharing cutting edge technology already used in california to detect early fires. the impact we are seeing from climate change are going to get more frequent and ferocious and more costly. last year alone, natural disasters caused $165 billion in damage. the worst impact is not

inevitable. my administration is doing all we can to recover and build so we can be prepared and adapt. host: president biden in june in california talking about his administration and what they are doing for climate change. former president donald trump was at the moms for liberty summit in philadelphia. here is what he had to say on climate change. [video clip] fmr. pres. trump: climate change extremists are destroying our country. at that you have five countries with nuclear weapons pointed at us is not a threat, can you imagine? he said the biggest threat is climate change. our oceans will rise when eight of an inch over the next 200 300 years. [applause]

host: president trump in philadelphia last week. we are getting your view on climate change. ron in san clemente california, republican. caller: good morning, greta. it is always nice to see you on c-span. a couple things are very important that no one addresses. it bothers me a great deal. people don't quite grasp that overpopulation is what is killing our planet. if you go back and watch a great movie back in 1973 called network, it was a story about 170 million americans in this country in 1973.

now we have 340 million. people wonder why brent is going up and wonder why the highways are clogged and wonder why we don't have any -- it is an immense common sense issue. host: what do you do about it? caller: everybody laughs at the chinese when they said the one child policy. right now this country is in a mess because no one is paying attention to the causes of this stuff. you are exactly right. why do you think the whole world is going with electric vehicles versus fossil cars? there is a reason for that. you can't make a whole planet go to electric vehicles and solar for no reason. if it was just mr. trump would

say just 1/8 of an inch in raise -- we live in san clemente i -- sam -- san clemente california and homes are being flooded every time we have a storm. look at all the tremendous heat wave here. if you look at the latest reports in the newspapers, a world temperature has risen higher than ever before in history. there is a reason for that. we have too many people. i will finish off with this last thoughts and i want everyone to remember this because someday someone will have to pay attention. when we hit 9.7 billion people on this planet, we are going to -- no one will be able to breathe the air. i know that sounds stupid.

we have to pay attention to this and make corrections in the way we are living. the rent and the cost of just living is going up because there are too many people. host: got it, around. you mentioned the high temperatures. look at this earth map from july 4. look at the red across the continents of the earth. it so setting an unofficial record for high temperatures three days in a row, sparking the conversation over climate change. that is our conversation with you this morning. we will go to north carolina, emma craddick caller -- democratic caller. caller: i want to tell you the

whole world, you are d4 sting -- d force -- deforrsting. i wish people would start listening to the native. they have in here for five to 10 century -- centuries. please listen to the older, wiser people that are telling you don't cut mother earth down. don't take away from it, give to it. host: box with the question, why is it so hot right now -- fox with a question, why is it so hot right now? it is often caused by a buildup of atmosphere pressure and vent

heat of the air and the high-pressure system pushes out cooler, fast moving currents which squeezes clouds await which gives the sun more time to bake. and in the long days of summer, the temperatures rise. it acts like a lid on a pot trapping heat and that is why heat waves are often referred to as heat domes. now there are much broader patterns causing temperatures in texas and beyond, large fast flowing currents of hair calling the subtropical polar jet streams appear to be wobbling which can impact how it impacts the west. there is also el niño which causes the ocean to warm effecting whether all over the world including reciprocation. this el niño could layer on

additional warming and in fact could also have been contribute into a heat wave in asia this year. all of these meteorological phenomenon occur on an earth that is getting hotter due to greenhouse gas emissions, and the broader effect of climate change is pretty clear. it will make heat waves more common, longer-lasting, and more extreme. david in georgia, republican, your view on climate change. caller: eight immediate view i am seeing is i wonder why we have nothing but problems in washington, d.c. and we are were about the sun. it is summer and i wonder to what extreme it is. are you ever going to have a

conversation about the cocaine in the white house? host: sylvia, democratic caller. caller: i must say, i live in southern california in the coachella valley. our air temperature will be up to 117 degrees or more. we live here appeared we learn to live. it is common sense. thinking of climate change, yes, but humanity has caused it. we just had july 4. the americans like to explode of fireworks. do you know what does -- that does to the air? do you know what is happening with the wars and all of the explosives. all of those explosives and matter we almost breathe.

we are all spinning and moving very fast around the sun. the air currents carry everything from every part of the earth. now is the time to start thinking we can live a better way but we need to correct human errors. there is a way, and the way to do it is to listen to the scientists. they are giving us constantly valuable information on which we must build common sense living. thank you for listening. host: ellen, virginia, washington -- allen, winchester virginia, your turn. caller: i live in winchester.

host: this give us your view -- please give us your view. caller: it is so hot in winchester because we need more rain on the grass because the grass is so dry in the summer because we need more rain. host: stephen lexington, kentucky, democratic caller. caller: thank you, greta, for your great hosting abilities. i would have to say i understand the demographic listening. there are a lot of older people and we are in this specific moment because the decisions that you all have made back in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's.

you can lend this at yourselves. so now we are here. host: what are some of those decisions? caller: decisions not to go electric sooner. there is so much technology suppressed by the automotive industry that could have put us in a better position now than we are. a lot of laws that were passed and government decisions and industrial decisions that could have been made to shift us in a better directions but we decided to continue the same pattern. it is just the american way. no, it is not the american way but the global way to make as much profit. we have to make a mindset as a

community and world and to focus what is going on. it is getting hotter and not going to get better. host: rick in alabama, democratic caller. caller: if you listen to the gop versus the democrats, the gop is stuck in their ways and won't change and when it comes to climate change they refuse to understand that things change. this is the problem with the people in this country, they don't like change and if you don't change you cannot remain the same. host: ed, clarksburg, west virginia, independent. . caller: thank you for letting me on. i am no bright bulb or short -- sharp knife.

this whole earth has been around in the best thing they can come up with is 4.5 billion, not million, we had dinosaur ages and ice ages. i don't pay any more attention than the man on the moon. to me, it is going to happen it is going to happen and if it ain't going to happen it ain't going to happen. host: according to our road data.org, to reach net zero we need innovation. here is a walk-through of the sectors and subsectors of where greenhouse gas emissions come from. energy use makes up 73.2% according to this website. iron and deal from manufacturing

7.2%. chemicals and petrochemicals 6%. food and tobacco 1%. metals, less than 1%. paper and machinery and other industries. transport makes up 16.62% of rehousing gas emissions. energy use in buildings 7.85% there and allocated fuel combustion 7.8%. into the chart, agriculture forestry, 18.4%. those sectors are the largest drivers of a greenhouse gas emissions. her -- earth hit unofficial record high temperatures this week here are getting your views on climate change. peter, a republican. caller: good morning.

you had joe bastardi on years ago and you should have it on again. he said we had more hurricanes before then we do nine -- now. you have to look at climate over hundreds of thousands of years. the last ice age lasted 150,000 years near the planet has been warming for the last 15,000 years. scientists are saying we still have ice at both holes -- polls -- poles. we have reduced our footprint over the last 30 years by about 30%. we are making progress.

all of the above is a good thing, but the argument the other gentleman made about the population is a legitimate one but what really affects the climate is the orbit of the earth with changes every 104,000 years. right now we are in a circular orbit meaning the weather is not that extreme. over every 104,000 years we become elliptical which affects the climate. there is also something where the tilt of the earth changes every 20,000 years and that affects us. 20,000 years ago the sahara desert was more topical. people have to take all this into consideration. people forget back in the 1930's we had the dust fall where there was no rain. you can't at climate in a not show over 100 years because the climate is dynamic and it keeps changing.

you should have them on to explain these things because they are very good. host: you said we have reduced our footprint by 30%. what are you referring to? caller: carbon footprint. and really that is a misnomer. we have shifted manufacturing over to china and they are producing the carbon footprint where we are reducing it over here. it really is not an accurate estimation in my opinion because all we did was shift manufacturing and the pollution that goes with it. the judgment about overpopulation, i think that is legitimate. we should have all different types of energy. host: the ap did a poll on

climate change and they found 79% of adults report being personally affected by at least one extreme weather events in the last five years. of those personally impacted, 69% link climate change as a cause at least in part. when you rake it down by party, democrats are more likely to believe it was caused by climate change compared to independents and republicans. recently the fema director took part in a recent washington post discussion on climate change extreme weather and how it impacts her job. [video clip] >> sis truly what is the crisis of our generation and we continue to experience and observe an increase in the number of severe weather events impacting our nation.

it is taking longer for us to be able to get in and assist these people and help them on this road to recovery. just a few stats to share with you. we have had over the past five years when $21 billion severe weather events across this nation, every year for the last five years. just in 2022, those $21 billion weather events have cost us in recovery a total of $175 billion so far. we have to start to think about what we are going to do to reduce the impacts of these events so we don't have these complicated recoveries and we can't make our nation more resilient. host: the fema director in a washington post discussion on climate change. many of you have seen the headlines yesterday and today if you are waking up in the

newspaper saying the earth hit an unofficial record high-temperature my date with the hottest day in 125,000 years and tuesday it was even hotter. we want to get your view on climate change this morning. we also want to share other headlines. the wall street journal decided to take their front page and dedicate it to the imprisonment of their reporter, who is detained in russia, 100 days he has been in a russian prison with the #i stand with van -- i van. they dedicated personal pictures of him with his family.

there is also this from usa today and the weekend edition, alzheimer's medication has been approved by the fda. below that is another headline the paper, half of u.s. tapwater in this country is at risk with the forever chemicals from plastic and other chemicals. there is also this story inside the washington times this morning, freedom caucus member marjorie taylor greene was ousted from their group right before the house recessed for their two week break. a vote was taken to remove her from the freedom caucus for some of the things she has done, it was told to politico last week.

they reported it first. he alluded to an ugly spat on the house floor in which she called a fellow member a little b word. that is not the way we expect others to refer to others. she said i serve northwest georgia first and serve no group in washington. my christian faith is forged in steel. my america first credentials are into my character and will never change. they also cite her support for kevin mccarthy the speakership race and for the debt limit deal he brokered with the white house. david from west virginia, democratic caller. let's go back to our discussion

on climate change. what is review -- what is your view? caller: regarding climate, i listen to trump's campaign speech and they said the democrats came up with this climate hoax by the fake news media. god said i created heaven and earth for mankind and you refuse to take care of it. god said i will turn the heavens in debt iron and the earth into brush. only when you take care of it will i restore it. host: donald in michigan, democratic caller. caller: good morning. everything c-span does for the american people is appreciated. i think climate change, we have

to get leaders who are going to stand. we have a crisis and the republican party is not a party to help us on climate change. they stand in the way everything this country has stood for. just look at marjorie taylor rain. how can anyone go into a voting booth and select an idiot like her? it is just amazing. until we get leaders who care about the country and climate change, vocally dealing the same problems we have. we have to get with of these mag a republicans. they are a threat to our republic. host: eric a democrat in jacksonville, florida. republicans, let's have you call in as well. caller: two good books to read

on the subject, one i would recommend is the bill gates book , how to avoid climate disaster. another book is by stephen pinker called enlightenment now. both of those books promote the weight forward which is continual innovation. whenever i listen to c-span i hear many religious people calling in and that is great. when you refer to the bible talking about things like climate change, prophecy is legitimate. and religion and the bible in general and any of the so-called holy books are scientifically social finding -- and one last

comment about marjorie taylor greene since you mentioned it. it has to be hard to get ousted from the freedom caucus. at just lets everyone know how crazy that woman is. host: eric mentioned we have to keep innovating. president biden was talking about what his administration is doing on that front to create green jobs. here he is in south carolina yesterday and rings up the congresswoman from georgia as well. [video clip] pres. biden: all across the supply chain, it may find it hard to leave that is marjorie taylor greene's district. i will be here for the groundbreaking.

the department of energy announced bringing solar power manufacturing back. we are in a race. china is ahead of us. this is another way to get toward our goal of clean energy by 2035. saving billions of tons of going into the air. host: president biden in south carolina touching his economic record and efforts to create green jobs. publicans argued the administration's agenda on climate change is hurting consumers. here is a republican in center john barrasso last month. [video clip] >> many view the biden administration as working against them rather than working toward them. the biden administration teaming

up with climate extremists is making it worse on american energy. the changes that were adopted during the debt ceiling vote will not do with the americans need in terms of energy. people want energy that is available, affordable, and reliable. yet joe biden has now commanded the epa to prioritize climate change or energy that is available, reliable or affordable. the epa is now the evil empire as it attacks american energy prosperity and production. the epa is aggressively attempting to shut down coal ash and there is no other source of energy to replace it. trying to shut down something that has worked for a long, long time and there is nothing available to replace it is

foolish and harmful. host: susan: wyoming -- host: wyoming republican last month talking about the biden administration's climate and energy policies. we are getting your take on climate change this morning. on facebook cheryl hernandez says it is real. the warnings sounded six years ago. i have lived in california 68 years, it keeps getting hotter and when nurse -- and winters are colder. refugees will not have anywhere to go because the whole earth is becoming unlivable. brat -- greg in farmington, michigan, independent. caller: i say we should study the ice pullers going back 400,000 years, which they are available.

the situation is in the past 150 years co2 shows up annually in an ice core. how come if everything happens throughout the years, how come in the past 150 years, evidence of co2 increase is a predominant right now? it is becoming very, very severe. how much co2 in the air right now parts per million is over 400. if we keep going at this rate, we have 10 or 15 ears where there is no hope whatsoever because you want to turn it back. host: pick is in -- rick is in

indiana, republican. caller: i don't agree with the green energy and don't believe in it. we are going to have so much poverty. god put oil on the earth for a reason. what i am saying is if the people want to go to the green deal buying but i am not going to vote for joe biden here he is trying to destroy the united states. he doesn't care about the united

states. god bless america. host: paul in fort dodge, independent. caller: thanks for taking my call. i am not so sure how much affect we have on climate change. there is definitely evidence about the problem we have to worry about is pollution. since 1970, we have reduced by 50% and the animals have been reduced by 40%. they say america wastes 40% of the food that we buy.

that means of the cattle, hogs that we raise and we are slaughtering more than we have to. the ocean is so polluted, there are areas the size of texas for love plastics and the garbage we dump in the ocean every day. think of it. there is almost no place left in the oceans we have not already polluted. every river in america is polluted and the waterways. we are doing what we can right now to stop invasive species from getting into the great lakes and polluting that. that is what we've really got to

worry about. and the population of the world keeps expanding all the time. we have to become more responsible with our daily lives than anything else. host: vicki mayfield on facebook, we have polluted the oceans and that is what controls the weather. they are so focused on solar and wind which are proving not to be reliable. i am excited about nuclear and hydrogen. chuck, a democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. one of your callers earlier was talking about the parts per million in the atmosphere.

he is right. climate scientists have determined if we are able to limit the carbon to 350 parts per million, we could stabilize the earth's climate but right now it is up to 420 and still going up. to be honest, i am 64. i know i don't have that long in this world. i shouldn't really worry about it myself, but my niece has between five-year-old kids and i am convinced that if and when they get to my age, the earth is going to be much or unpleasant place to live because we have been kicking the environmental can down the road for decades. we knew it was happening and we knew about the physics of greenhouse gases for 100 years now and decades ago, we knew

what was happening but we kept kicking the environmental can down the road. one of the congressman kept talking about energy and how energy has to be available and affordable and reliable. to me, that is other people who keep saying what matters more to them is their own comfort and convenience and prosperity. if you ask people to pick between their own comfort, convenience and prosperity in the long run as opposed to a sustainable climate, and long when they are going to pick comfort, convenience and prosperity. that is what don't have too much hope for this planets because people are just too selfish to worry about future generations and i think future generations

are going to curse us for failing to act when we could. for all of those people worried so much about their own comfort and convenience and prosperity, don't pretend that you care about the world that your grandkids and your great grandkids are going to inherit because you don't. host: harrell on facebook, weather is cyclical -- carol on facebook, weather is cyclical. we will get through this. judy and akron, all keio -- akron, ohio, republican. caller: there is going to be a problem to dispose of the battery when we switch to all electric and also the kids in africa are getting hurt. host: you have to talk and listen to the phone.

when you have the television on that is what causes confusion. on wednesday, former vice president pence campaigning in iowa made it news when he was addressed at a pizza ranch, and sioux city, iowa and he was confronted by a voter about what he did on january 6. here is that,. -- sure is that moment. [video clip] >> i know what the constitution of the united states required me to do that day. [applause] let me be respectful of the question and tell you, states conduct our elections. you never want to let washington, d.c. run elections.

if you would never want one person and washington, d.c. to decide the president of the united states. the states conduct elections in iowa, where i live in indiana. after there were questions in half a dozen or so estates, we had reviews of the results of 60 lawsuits that went to the courts. number one you take the issues to the legal process. secondly you take them to the court which we did very aggressively. there were voting irregularities that took place, have a dozen changed rules in the name of covid but the courts upheld those changes in virtually every instance. at the end of the day, when iowa certified the results and sent them, the constitution of the

united states in article two, it is the job of the vice president to preserve -- preside for you open and count the votes. don't take my word for it, read the constitution. it is very clear, i job was to oversee where objections could be heard. i made sure objections would be recognized so we would hear whatever debate there was. the constitution says you open and count the votes. constitution affords no authority for the vice president or anyone else to reject votes for return votes to the states. it has never been done for and should never be done in the future. i am sorry but that is what the constitution says. no vice president ever asserted the authority that you have been convinced that i had.

i want to tell you with all due respect. when i announced president trump was wrong about my authority that day and he is still wrong. host: former vice president in iowa. you can find our coverage of campaign 2024 on our website, c-span.org. we are covering the candidates as they ramp up their presidential campaigns in the early states. steve in armstrong creek, wisconsin, democratic caller. we are talking about climate change. what is your view? caller: the earth is six and a billion years old. human beings have been on the planet for around 200,000. we are a relatively new species. the earth has gone through many climate changes throughout that

time. the big difference right now is the speed that it is happening. we have had five major extinction events for various reasons. we are in the midst of the sixth. a lot of it hato do with how we live. human beings have caused it by our use of fossil fuels and it goes back to the beginning of the industrial age, 150 years. it is a small fraction of the overall history and how much it has changed in that period of time, and it is human caused. i agree with the one of the younger callers. m 71 years old. i will be happy to take the blame. our generation ignored it and

the previous caller that talked about us putting our conveniences and prosperity ahead of everything else, he was absolutely right. but right now i think we are at a point where we can't really stop it. we can try to mitigate it but it is going to take a worldwide effort. to do that there has to be cooperation between nations and right now i don't see that happening. it is the sad thing. there is always hope. that is all i can say. host: michael in florida, democratic caller. caller: i think that human nature is not going to change. people to the fact that money is more important than anything and

greed drives everything. for the earth to be cleaned again, someone else will have to do it. he did it once before and he will do it again. he will clean it himself and make it whole again. host: diana, democratic caller. caller: i believe south america has a lot to do with our summers getting hotter on cutting down the forests, 10,000 acres for cattle. they said most of the meat will be coming from brazil. trees produce chlorophyll that keeps the earth cool. but we are cutting down the trees at alarming rates. i think south america should be sanctioned for cutting down so much of the rain forest.

it baffles me the greatest going on, and it is going to get hotter. it takes hundreds of years to get these trees back. host: what is it like to live in arizona in recent days? caller: it is hot, dry. the ground is cracking from lack of moisture. you can see the steam coming off the ground it. you could fry an egg on the sidewalk. host: what is the water situation like? caller: i am not sure. we were selling a lot of water to saudi arabia or alfalfa for their cattle and it has put us in a mass. i don't know what the officials are going to be doing about it.

i don't think saudi arabia should be buying our water. host: could see, massachusetts, independent. caller: the population of the earth is way out of line for what we can handle. in india, villains. in china, billions. usa, 340 million. we need to do everything we can to correct. there is no way the american public can take the son by themselves. host: dave, republican, rochester, new york. good morning. caller: i wanted to say with all the climate change talk, i find it funny that no one has ever

had volcanologists on their shows. host: and your point? caller: the volcanoes are constantly spewing gases into the atmosphere, even the ones in the ocean. can't tell me that is the major cause of climate change, not humans. host: floyd, republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. shippers chapel last days, you will get your answer. you can look at the bible and learn things they didn't know. just do that and you will get your answer. host: ab in hot springs,

arkansas, democratic caller. caller: you have heard the term frozen tundra, talking about the part of russia and siberia. the problem is it is not that frozen anymore. it is thawing out and as it thaws out it is releasing methane gases. there is nothing we can do about that other than try to cool the earth down. greenhouse gases are trapping sunlight in and that is why everything is getting so hot. every time we burn a pound of coal, we are adding to it. the methane gas from the frozen tundra around the arctic circle. they say it is causing

greenhouse gases. it is not so much carbon dioxide but methane that has been on the earth millions of years and is now being released. we have to do something about trying to cool the earth down. people like donald trump getting up there and talking about how it is only going to rise 1/8 of an inch. look at the islands off of north carolina, half are underwater. people like that are just science deniers. i don't understand folks like that. i pray he doesn't get back in office again. host: we will go to gym in troy, ohio, independent. your view on climate change. caller: i find it ironic that most climate people that call in don't believe in the bible or

prophecy. if you read the bible and look at it, god agrees with them wholeheartedly because he said someday the earth will melt with fervent hate and it is going to be done. that is going to take care of that. nothing we can do is be baptized in the name of jesus is for the forgiveness of sins. you won't have to worry about it because you will be in heaven forever and ever. don't read the kool-aid -- don't drink the kool-aid, forgive and love one another. host: alex in st. paul, minnesota, independent. caller: thanks for taking my call. people who fervently believe in climate change and those who

don't do not understand is going on. we have seen a collapse in scientific leadership. look at the origins of covid 19 and how we still don't know. we need to have a scientific debate where we have facts and not just people jumping to conclusions based on political ideology. host: bernie in louisville, kentucky, democratic caller. caller: you hit the nail on the head when you talked to the woman from arizona about water. it will be one of the most precious things we will have. we are going to have heat and all of these other things contributing to climate change, when the water dries up and becomes more precious than anything on earth, which it already is, that is when i think

it is going to be really bad. host: ken in new jersey, democratic caller. caller: i really can't understand how anybody can deny the reality of climate change with what is going on. last monday the hottest day in the last 100 put the 5000 years, record-breaking temperatures all over the united states and other parts of the world. i remember reading research that set a lot of people are saying it is too late. there was research that shows that is not true. if we stop putting as much carbon into the atmosphere as we do, if we stopped all carbon emissions now, the greenhouse effect would stop in the earth

would start getting cooler again. biden wants to have us 100% switching over to green energy by 2035. as an enormous switchover. if you want to replace all of the automobiles in the united states now with electric cars, we would have to triple the electric generating capacity with infrastructure and such. i am hoping for the best but i have a feeling what is going to happen is the equator is going to get so hot that you will start seeing mass migrations of people toward the poles where it will be cooler. it is not a good situation. host: i am going to leave it there for now. we are going to take a short

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your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span power by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning is ted rossman senior industry analysts for bankrate.com here to talk about credit card debt. take a look at this headline come americans continue to pile up credit card debt edging close to $1 trillion. should that figure scare us? guest: it is one of these all news is local issues. do you carry a credit card balanced or not -- balance or not? these figures in credit card balances do not ditch diggers between what is not -- do not distinguish between what is paid in full and not.

those who pay in full get rewards and are not paying interest. credit cards are working for them. the other have, 46% are carrying balances and that average interest rate is a record high, 22.5%. that is a tremendous difference. the rewards are not working for them. that can become a persistent debt cycle. there are economic benefits to spending certainly. so much economic growth is powered by consumer spending and i think the cars balances reflect that but he did not want to carry a balanced if you can avoid it. host: the 46% carrying a balance, how does it compare to recent years? guest: it is up. when year ago 39% of carry -- to cardholders carried debt from month-to-month.

balances are going up. there's a time that credit card balance was filled from the pre-pandemic peak. q4 2019 to q1 22 the one we saw a 17% drop. since then balance how shut up about 30% -- shot up about 30%. people would take advantage of the fact there is spending less early in the pandemic. right now we see warning signs in terms of more people carrying more debt and at record high interest rates. the fed rate hikes over the past year and a quarter have push the typical credit card rate of about five percentage points per year that is a big deal. host: why the banks charging? guest: the average is 22.5% of

the some people are paying 25% or even in the neighborhood of 30%. if you have a lower credit score you might be in that 30% threshold. a lot of store credit cards they added that high-end as well. because they are not as selective as about credit quality. even a low rage credit card these days is often in the low double digits. this is people's priciest debt which makes it important to come up with a payoff strategy. host: we want to hear from our viewers on that very issue. this is how we divide the lines this morning. if you have credit card debt dial in at 202-748-8000. if you pay off your credit card monthly, 202-748-8001. if you do not own a credit card now in this morning at 202-748-8002.

what is your prediction of how many calls you think we get a people who do not own a credit card? guest: we know about four out of five americans have credit cards. there is roughly 20% that is not have one for one reason or another. and be personal preference. may be access to credit but increasingly credit cards are huge parts of the economy. they drive a lot of consumer spending. traditionally we have seen credit cards for more discretionary purchases like travel and dining. that is changing. because of technology and people using less cash, fewer checks. some is out of necessity and more people financing gas and groceries and other everyday essentials with inflation being so high. host: if you go back to the headline about the federal reserve report, that is nearing $1 trillion americans have in credit card debt.

is this an economic bubble that could burst? guest: from a credit quality standpoint i'm not worried right now because people -- because even though the have gone up from pandemic close, that was artificially low to begin with with all the stimulus that was out there and people were to cut up and not all spending on things. we are still below pre-pandemic norms. it is a relatively calm risk environment for lenders right now. people are paying these bills back for the most part. increasing numbers carrying balances which are worsening from interest in point but credit still flowing freely. the vast majority paying their bills back on time. the stronger job market deserves a lot of credit for that. we have on unemployment rate below 4%. often time that predicts the default rate on credit card.

it is still pretty low. host: this headline in business section of new york times, global battle to reign in prices. countries walking a tight rope as they raise interest rates to control inflation. if they fail, destabilizing period could result. what is the effect of this on credit card debt? guest: i think the job market is a big indicator there. maybe it is a more lagging indicator because typically it takes something sizable to up and the normal trend of credit card balances going up and credit card issue is reviewed at last year it was a record year for credit card originations by the way. the speaks of the trend of more consumer spending and low delinquencies and issuers being quite comfortable issuing cards. we see unemployment like the pandemic, that was a special

case with the stimulus, may be a better example would be the great recession of 2007 between 2009. the majority of that is close ranks a bit and legacies and charge-offs go up. balances went down because less access to credit but also people making pay off a priority during uncertain economic times. in general, credit card debt and issuance on it are steady march upward. that is not necessarily a bad thing because it does say something positive about consumer spending and overall economy. the big distinction is the household level we want you to be among those who are using cards for convenience and rewards but not as an expense financing tool. host: ted rossman is our guest an analyst with the bankrate.com. tosha in michigan, europe first.

you pay off your credit card every month? caller: i do. thank goodness. what is very appalling to me is the rate they charge people for the ability to use a credit card. when i occasionally get a statement and it shows 22% i think that is -- we should not be charging those people that kind of money. when i go to cosco, i'm amazed at how many people shop there. it is great store but costco makes money on the memberships. if you cannot afford the membership, i guess you cannot shop there. the regular charge -- i also think about she's going back to

school and parents that have new clothes, new shoes, new everything. most parents cannot afford to pay that all at one time. and so, they spread it out as best they can but the bills come in every month in addition to those. host: let's pick up on what you said about that interest rate that credit card companies charging between 90% and 25% --19% and 25%. any effort about legislators or the federal government to cap how much a credit card can charge? guest: there was a supreme court case some years back that declared it matters where the card issuers not the customer because even at the state has a certain interest rate cap credit cards are basically enforced based upon the state where they are base.

it is where they are set up in states that do not have an interest rate cap or very high one. there has been an effort in recent years -- a few years back senator bernie sanders and representative alexandria because you'll cortez unveiled with cap raise it is about 17 percent, charge credit using are capped at 18% by law. i do not see any movement on the near term horizon in terms of a true cap. i would argue 70% is quite high relative to other -- 17% is quite high relative to others. typical car loan is about 7%. initially response would be credit cards are an amazing thing. this unsecured debt. no underlying asset on the line. you can use it just about

anywhere. they give you a credit line. it is flexible. a lot of it is only consumer to paid off in full. that is when credit cards work for you when you are able to pay in full, earn rewards, and avoid these high interest rates. host: we have not talked about late fees. what are they? how much to credit card companies charge? guest: this is one in the news lately. currently working on this -- the current cap for credit currently fees is $30 for the first events and then 41 for subsequent offenses within six billing cycles. cfpb as part of the broader push against fees is trying to bring that down to eight dollars. the industry is pushing back. they reportedly make about $12 billion a year in late fees and this would chop about three

quarters off of that. some say late fees are an important enforcement tool, a deterrent for not paying late. other say the cause is really disproportionate to the value received. this is called up in brother -- broader discussion about wholesale resort fees and airline seat selection fees and all of these junk fees. we will see how it plays out but there is a suppose cap of just eight dollars down from $30. host: the chair wrote testifying on capitol hill about this and he got pushed back from members of congress. [video clip] >> these are fees that the user agree to where they took the credit card because the fees the recoup cost, but there also designed to be slightly pensive to stop that behavior -- punitive to stop bad behavior.

you're proposing taking away that given the punitive charge to those who are obeying the contract or agreement made with the credit card company. >> i just want to make sure something is clear. reasonable is not the cfpb word. that is what is in statue. >> do they not agree to whatever fee structure it was when they agreed to take the credit card? >> that is true but the reasonable proportional as a separate prohibition so again, one of the things that is in their is institutions can certainly be able to show why there is reasonable -- we propose a framework. >> why are you going this direction? >> what we have found across consumer credit markets is we do not -- it is not a compare competitive market when an

institution has an incentive for someone to default or be late. we learned the hard way about this with subprime mortgages were originator could benefit even if the borrower defaulted. most credit card companies, especially small ones, do not have the business model and in our review is that they do not actually build a business model or profit more when someone is late. in some cases a borrower might be a day late or a few dollars off and get a very large fee. that is what congress was thinking to prohibit and we want to market -- a market where credit must the person -- host: the chair of the consumer financial protection bureau. this morning we are talking about credit card debt. ted rossman is our guest with bankrate.com. cardio in southwest fall, new york. pace off the credit card every month. welcome to the conversation.

caller: hi. you do a great job. the place i would like to make our i find the credit card our class and that is another advantage where the weather folks again at advantage. i run a small business. i run all my bills through my credit cards and i get a bunch of rewards and by paying it off every month i do not pay interest on it. you do not pay interest if you pay it off in his entirety but i can get airline travel rewards and vacation are wars and all kinds of stuff. the poor person who may miss a payment and does not do this, they are paying higher interest rate to support it might reward. we all know this business to make money. host: let's take that theory. go ahead. guest: i do hear that there is

some times that are basically the poor are subsidizing the credit card rewards of the rich. i do not know if i fully buy into it it because i would note supposedly high percentage of higher income households still carry credit card debt. there could be lower income households that do not have credit card debt due benefit from rewards. is he sense, it is more about how you manage your money, not necessarily how much money you have. it has been in the news that with the credit card competition act, legislation that would open up more competition and credit card network space which of the face of it sounds like a good thing, but at the end of the day could save marches money but it costs us credit card rewards. at the revenue stream comes down, banks will make it up elsewhere in my cut back on rewards and could be regressive. america has the most lucrative

credit card reward market in the world. there is no evidence retailers with lower prices these rates were lower. debit card rates were cap more than 10 years ago and the federal reserve found 1% of retailers lowered prices. regardless of what your income is, it is important to be among those who are paying in full every month. i do not see it as much of a income thing but a good practice that can have credit card working for you rather than against you. host: eliza in ohio. do not on a credit card. how come? eliza, good morning. i will move onto emily in massachusetts. you do not on the credit card. caller: i do not own or now. i paid them off. i was looking because i got an

inheritance as able to pay them all out. i have been paying them for years but to think i do not understand and i do not know, i know it is unsecured debt by do not understand how -- but i do not understand if you do not have the money to make the payment, and the added fees, what are you going to have the money when they put on these fees and it is going to make you pay it? it is more money and you do not have the money in the first place. host: ted rossman? guest: late fees are on there as a deterrent but what we are getting at is this idea that it is not like a mortgage where they can foreclose upon your house or a car loan with a can repossess the car. credit card rates are high because it is unsecured debt. they're worried about people

skipping out on these charges. that is really the biggest reason why credit card rates are high. they pushed higher because of the fed rate hikes which have been well-intentioned. to fight inflation by have had a big effect in credit card balance because almost all credit cards are variable. a typical formula is the prime rate 8.25%, it was 3.25 percent early last year. the prime rate plus whatever the profit margin is typically averages about 12%. this is a structure that became common after the card i went to effect in 2010 -- the card act went to fight in 2000 10. the consequences of having tighter control of when and how credit card issuers can raise rates has made them read to sensitive to a rising rate environment and it is the first time the fed has been pushing rates up.

it is made rates -- host: here's how we divided the line. if you have credit card debt doubt in at 202-748-8000. if you pay off that credit card monthly, 202-748-8001. if you do not own a credit card, 202-748-8002. call in -- collin in silver springs, maryland. why do you pay off the credit card every month? caller: i'm in my 40's now. when i was in my only 30's i got in trouble with credit cards. i took a lot of risk. i had to get charged off and it hurt my credit for a number of years. i have five credit cards and pay off every month and use them for different purposes to get rewards, usually cashback. i keep as much cash as possible every month in height and just make account with no policy for moving the money. i use the credit card company to make more money and try to

reduce inflation. that is a good thing if you use it wisely. host: can you respond to that, ted rossman? guest: i love the idea of using credit card for every day purchases and earning rewards. high-yield savings accounts are great. right now you can get 5% at the high end of the market so were talking totally liquid, and shorter savings accounts. i think it is great to use credit cards for the positive. i want to mention other people have credit card debt and there's no shame in that, it is often very practical reasons. it is often medical bill, car repair, home repair, or day-to-day living, but there are things you can do even if you have credit card debt. you can take on a 0% balanced transfer card and avoid interest to up to 21 months or work with

a reputable nonprofit credit counseling agency like money management international or take on a side hustle, cut your expenses. there are things you could do but ultimately we will at all due to the point where we are paying the bills in full, avoiding interest, and getting viable rewards like airline miles and cashback and hotel points. host: can you file bankruptcy? guest: you can. i think they'll be a last resort. if you're really struggling, nonprofit credit count like money management can be helpful because they can't negotiate better terms with your creditors. maybe they bring to credit card rate to 7% or 8% over four or five years and they will work with you to pay it back. that can help the credit over the long term. do not like that so cement.

-- i do not like debt settlement because of the credit core impact. these for-profit agencies that say will get you out of credit card debt for pennies on the dollar's but they often tell you to stop paying for a while, late payment stack up, credit court damage accumulates. as a point to get out ahead of it and communicate with your lender. stick a reptile nonprofit credit counseling agency. there are things you can do. valid transfer idea is a good one. it may be a personal loan is a form of debt consolidation. the minimum payment method is brutal. the average credit card balances of about $5,700 according to trans union you make minimum payments of the average interest rate will be in debt for more than 17 years and you pay more than $8,400 in interest. it is important to come up with a better plan. host: mary in las vegas.

good morning to you. caller: good morning. i pay it off and use it to improve my credit score and to get discounts which have been low my card. there are a couple things i would like to address. i had a home depot small balance. i owed $40 but when i paid the bill i saw the first number and saw $35 and thought that is what i owed and it was my last purchase. i got hit with the high interest rate. that was kind of my fault but annoying because it was one of those difference of a few. dollars and my other comment, i had and also pay and a --uto pay and to get the five dollar discount for the auto pay it they do not want to use the credit card because of the fees and they want to withdraw money directly out of

my checking account or out of my debit card. is there any danger in those? guest: i would not worry about that. i think it is annoying because the user of the credit cards and i love getting rewards and putting as many bills on there as possible and paying them off in full every month but that is something we are seeing more of. a lot of companies are price-sensitive. the typical interchange fee, the feet marches pay credit card companies for every transaction, is about 2.2% and with the money being tight and inflation being high some companies are trying to circumvent that need to a surcharge are pushing to another payment method. in general, i think credit cards are more secure than other forms of payment because it is a line of credit. it is the bank's money, not yours up until you pay them back. we should pay them back to him of course, but with the debit card, the money comes out of your account immediately.

if there is fraud you should get it back but it may take days or weeks and you're missing that. to paint a reptile bill online -- when it comes to paint a reptile bill -- double bill online i would probably go to the part of the discount the vietnamese using my card. i think of is something we may see continue to play out. in general, i think credit is safer but there is another incentive for you something else, maybe that makes sense. if you're shopping in an familiar sight, that is where i would worry about sharing think accounts or debit cards credentials. you should get the money back if there is fraud but it is more of a house so that it is with the credit card. host: james in mississippi. tell us your story. caller: good morning. i've never owned a debit card. i get a credit card and pay it off and i do not paid on the

computer. i do not have a computer. this is android phone i got. i pay by check and stamp and put it in the mail. i do not put my count online. for anybody to get. i pay all my bills with the credit card they usually get my credit card with discounts like gas 5% discount and i pay it off every month. i do not try to live above my means and you got to use discipline for what you by. that is what i have been doing all my life. i am 64 years old. host: are you saving money? caller: yes ma'am. when i graduate high school 1978 , i went to work at 12 years old and i was a cowboy and i worked at a grocery store.

when i graduated i had $10,000 saved. host: but if you do with that? -- what did you do with that? caller: fact intimate carter was -- back then jimmy carter was the president and interest rate i like it in for five years. host: james in mississippi. guest: i think you're hearing savvy stories which i think is great about people saving money and using credit card to their advantage. i would acknowledge i am sure we have viewers that have credit card debt create it is hard to talk about it. we have been the research and others have done would rather talk about anything else. they are ashamed about credit card debt. did a study people would rather talk about their weight, political views, religious views some potentially sensitive subjects and rather talk about that than a credit card debt.

i want to acknowledge if you have credit card debt, you're not alone. there are things you can do. 0% balance transfers, personal loans, credit counseling. critic card debt is a common issue although it is one want to talk about. it is more fun to talk about the cashback you earn or great trip you took those stories are out there but that big distinction is whether or not you're able to pay those bills in full every month. host: we are curious about how many calls we would get it from the do not own a credit card line this morning but to your point, we have not seen too many people calling in on the i have credit card debt line. guest: i think a lot of that is the stigma associated with the edit. we know almost half of cardholders, a third of all americans have credit card debt. it is very common. the probably come increasingly so because -- it will probably

become increasingly so because prices are high, money is tight for a lot of people. a close cousin to all this is by now pay later industry which is interesting to, companies like a firm affirm and afterpay. some of them position itself as the kinder gentler alternative to critic arms -- credit card because there is no interest and even if there is you know how much you owe for how long and sometimes there is behavioral finance quirks to it. it is not bills like dead if you know if i make these four payments of $50 or $100 then i am done with it. i think a lot of people are wrestling with these issues and we see people using a credit card or even using by now, pay later more commonly at places like grocery stores and gas stations that historically have

been more of a place where people use debit cards for day-to-day transactions. the ideal scenario is to use a credit card like a debit card. you pay in full and there is no interest but you get the viable rewards which are much better on credit cards and the buyer protections are better on credit cards to. host: what do you advise, using a credit card or saving yet that was the saving rate versus the credit card debt rate in this country? guest: personal saving rate is pretty low right now about 4%. i would argue credit cards could help you save if you can pay in full every month. the other is if you are avoiding overspending is in town that is hard to figure. there's been research done that there is less pain associated with pain with a card. a card of any type, i would put debit cards in that because even

though it is a fixed amount coming in to your checking account, there is more physical pain and inconvenience associated with cash. that is one idea for people struggling with debt. sometimes we say use cash for a while or keep a spending journal or know where your money is going. over time, hopefully you can get to a point where you're using a credit card just for routine transactions and getting those benefits. that is the ideal. to each their own creative people have different habits. the average american has about four credit cards. i know some people with 30 they have great credit. i would not try to get there overnight. that is a special case. you have other people that maybe they're are better off not using credit at all because it could get them into trouble. some people say credit cards are like power tools because they can be really useful or dangerous. you need to know yourself.

host: westchester field, new hampshire's, ron. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. "washington journal" best show on tv today. i love the show. i do not have a credit card and i would tell you why because in 2008 i had three credit cards and to no fault of my own, never went late on any payments, at all. the predatory banks for no reason at all rose my interest rate up to 29.9% of all three of my cards basically drove me into bankruptcy. it was a mess. i do have a question. at the federal government cannot loan money -- if the federal government can loan money to banks to subsidize banks that go belly up at 2% or 3% then those

bays can take that same money and it turned low and out at 25%, almost 30% interest rate and make a lot of money off of it, and of the federal government claims is not a bank, but yet it does that for banks and the banking industry, why can't the government come up with 2% or 3% loans for the average person that they can actually pay back? i'm getting credit card offers right now that they make it sound so great, apply now, 21 percent interest rate, great rate. just ridiculous predatory garbage. like you say, you get a credit card and get even 15% or 18% and years that thing before you even pay off early any of the principal. the government is going to bail out banks and loan the money at a small low interest rate for banks that make money and go belly up again, i wish federal

government would take some of the money and invest it in our general masses at a low percent that the general masses can use to help pull them out of their poverty or whatever wherever they are at in their life. at a reasonable rate and then maybe it will lift more people up. just handed over to the banks for them to frivolously waste on other things and predatory actions and stuff that draw people into bankruptcy, which i learned my lesson on in 2008, that was ridiculous. government was just as much to blame as wall street for the regulation. host: your reaction. guest: some of what you are saying it reminds me of what is playing out in student loan space. the biden administration was trying to cancel up to $20,000

per federal student loan debts borrower then that was struck down by the supreme court recently. i think some of what you are saying sounds good to a lot of people. i think it would be a real clinical and legal hurdle. i tend to think it is more on the individual to use credit cards and pay off credit cards. one other area i thought you might be going with this is sometimes during recessions card companies slash credit lines or cancel cards without warning. the can no longer raise the interest rate like they did in your case without notice because the card act went into play in 2010 and that limited their ability to raise rates except in very special cases like if you pay 60 or more days lead, then your rate could go up to 29.9%.

fed actions can influence your read but otherwise they cannot just at a whim say all of a sudden your rate is higher. that was a positive change of the card act but one thing they can still do is change your credit limit or even cancel your card without warning. it is more likely to happen if your in distress, you paid late or bumping up against your credit line, or if you're not using the card much. that is something we hear about a lot. anytime the economy takes a turn for the worse, it happened a lot in 2020 where people would find the credit lines worse -- where slashed without warning. try not to use the credit card as emergency fund as the credit line would not always be there and try to keep inactive cards active. maybe the occasional small purchase can be paid off in full. do not let it go dormant because then you might lose the credit. host: built in pennsylvania. hi.

caller: good morning. my wife and i set up an escrow account and what we do is every month we put x number of dollars into the account so that when insurance, taxes, would have you come through, we have a nest egg we can draw from without hitting our checkbook. is essentially one of these things if you do not see the money, you do not miss it. it is work very well for us over a number of years. the other thing is that they are talking about the interest rate. i have found that credit unions rather than banks seem to give you a much lower interest rate. obviously, i am all for that.

another thing is that when we take our car to the garage through the garage and i'm not sure how they set it up, but if you pay -- you can take an option to pay over a six-month period that is interest free. whenever we go to that garage to have work done on the car, if it is more than $300, what i will do is, if it is a 450 dollar bill, i will say i'm going to pay wider $50 a month -- 150 a month and paid off and there is no interest on it. the people were able to take advantage of that that would help but like i say with the escrow account, that has worked very well for us.

it took us some time to put now we have a bit of a nest egg there so that if there is a major bill, not only on the car but a major bill on a house repair, we can hit that without depleting our checking account. host: you call it an escrow account. but he mean by that? it makes money why he sits in the account? caller: it is in the credit union and yes, it is making a poultry, half percent a month. maybe escrow account is not of the proper term but i put in a different way, it is an accessible savings account that we keep putting the money into it and we only draw on that for taxes, insurance. it is not used for everyday

expenses. host: understood. let me get to ted rossman's reaction. guest: that is another great advantage. maybe move that money to a higher-yielding but totally secure, federally insured account. there are some banks and credit unions offering 5% these days on liquid savings account. we are big believers in the power of emergency savings. there is often your breath against future credit card debt -- that is often your buffer against future credit card debt. we have a home repair or medical bill you can lean on that emergency savings account and not put it on a credit card at a percent of plus interest. that is really important. great financial management have their. it is really important to have that rainy day fund. host: is it possible to put the money in an account that makes

money off of the market but still accessible? guest: it is. there are money market funds that a lot of brokerages offer which is kind of a close cousin to savings accounts or may be a short-term bond fund created -- bond fund. these are the positive of rising interest rates. there are several linings here for savers because a couple of years ago you were lucky to get half a percent on a savings account and now you can potentially get 5%. we are talking liquid accounts too not even typing up your money for five years -- tying up your money for five years. there is another good tip in automation and the idea of paying yourself first and you're less likely to miss what you do not see. savers can be a journey and it

is not always easy to get it there overnight but i like your 401(k), to the extent you can set money aside every paycheck, goes into a dedicated seems accounts, i that is a great idea. host: springfield, ohio. larry, you do not own a credit card. caller: that is correct. the morning. thank you for taking my call. i'm 88 years old and for the last 20 years if i cannot afford it, did not buy it. i do not like the idea of paying somebody to use their money. it is a simple as that. guest: i think that is awesome. i think that is a desirable place to be in. some people use credit card more out of necessity and i think that is difficult situation. let's say you do not have enough money to go around that much and how you going to buy groceries

or other things, that is one of the shortfalls that gets people into credit card debt and it can become a persistent cycle. we found that 60% of people who have credit card debt have headed for at least one year and that is up from 30% a year ago. nobody wants to be in credit card debt. it is one of the things that is easy to get into and hard to get out of. i love the story of people who use cards for convenience and rewards but did not pay interest. i know there are a lot of people out there were credit card debt. i do not think we've got acentric -- single call from someone with credit card debt but there is often a stigma associated with it which i think is unfortunate. we should get better about talking about money but i want to say if you have credit card debt, you can do it. you can pay it off. it may not be easy. it make take a couple of years but something like a 0% balance transfer as a tailwind, you can

make some real progress without paying interest for a while. host: what is rolled as bakery -- what role does bankrate.com play in this discussion? guest: personal-finance advice we help people manage their money from building your savings to find a house, using the right credit card. we have offers on our site so we partner with a lot of big banks and credit card companies and can help you compare offers like you want to find a low rate card, a reward card, maybe get airline miles or cash back. we have a market place and a lot of helpful editorial content, calculators and tools that can help people manage their money. host: carla is in missouri. good morning to you. caller: good morning.

i pay my credit card off every month. i am 91 years old and i have had a credit card forever. i've never paid interest. i do like interest on anything. my problem is i have two life other. -- life alert. and amazon they insist needed taking the money out of my checking account or my credit card. which do you think would be safer? guest: personally, i'm a big believer in using credit cards. i think credit cards are safer from a fraud and identity theft standpoint. you also get the rewards. a key point with credit cards is you have this dispute and fraud resolution process and if there is fraud, it is not money missing from your checking account. it is a line of credit you can

get that fraudulent transaction wiped off without having to pay real money out of pocket. ray get stickier is the previous caller who mentioned there was a surcharge for using credit cards or a discount for using another payment method, that is where you have to wait your personal calculations -- weigh your personal calculations of rather saving five bucks a month or have peace of mind may rewards are smaller but it is a personal decision. when all else is equal i think credit cards are better from a safety standpoint and better from a reward standpoint. the main problem with credit cards is the interest rate which unfortunately, it is not in issue for it -- fortunately it is not an issue to you but it factors into the equation for somebody that might be financing at 20% or more. host: you mentioned the strong job market. those numbers from june that just came out. unemployment rate fell from 3.7

percent to 3.6% in june. 209,000 jobs added. usa today notes hiring slow but remained steady. what do you make of that? guest: it sounds like a strong report. ironically this may be a bit good news is bad news kind of things where the market in terms of this may encourage the fed to raise rates higher because their job is not done yet. when it comes to fighting inflation. i think the so-called soft landing hypothesis is gaining traction. the idea that it may be the fed can bring inflation down without causing a recession because historically almost always when rates have gone up a lot, recession follows and it is this sort of necessary evil where visit -- to break inflation you need a recession. maybe that will not be the case this time. that will be remarkable if the fed could engineer that.

even a short shallow recession, all things considered, would not be so bad relative to the highest inflation in 40 years. economic data has been more positive. job market has been really resilient. consumer spending resilient. not everybody is doing well. even if your wages have gone up, if inflation has gone up as much or more, you do not feel great about it but, in general, i see this as another step in the right direction. people have been saying for two years now recession is around the corner. it is not feel like it is around the corner where we see numbers like that. host: you learn more if you go to bankrate.com. ted rossman is senior industry analysts. thank you for the conversation. guest: i enjoyed it. thank you. host: coming up this morning on the "washington journal" we are joined by borders national

security correspondent johnathan landay where he discussed a new state department review of the bite in twice and they want withdrawal from afghanistan. -- biden administration in withdrawal from afghanistan. we come back were in open forum. start yelling in. we'll will be right back. -- die linke in. will be right back. >> megan history tv saturday c-span 2's warning the people and events that took american story. 8:00 p.m. is a look at the discn between broadway and off-broadway this production is how small leaders were political

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online anytime on booktv.org. ♪ >> since 1970 nine in partnership with the cable industry c-span is provided complete coverage of the halls of congress from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings, party briefings and committee meetings. c-span gives you a front row seat dow issues are debated and decided. no commentary, no interruptions and completely unfiltered. c-span your unfiltered view of government. >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this where americans can see democracy at work. when citizens are truly informed, public their lives. get informed straight from the source on c-span unfiltered,

unbiased word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are is the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span power by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back in open forum this morning on the "washington journal" with 20 minutes free to share your thoughts on any public policy or political issue. independent caller, nehabi, is that their name? caller: good morning. yeah. wells fargo cannot even ease of 6% which is approximately inflation. can they help us to guide people

that are at police who want -- elderly people who want it sometime guaranty of their investment? is there anyway i can get the information? thank you. host: i think you are referring to our last guest was no longer with us but if you go to bank rate.com you maybe find information on their website. we open forum. any open policy a political issue on your mind. we learned political -- we learned economic news in the last hour. the job rates in june the numbers are out from the bureau of labor statistics. 3.6% unemployment rate in june that fell from 3.7%. 209,000 jobs added. usa today's described it as hiring slowly but remained steady in june as u.s. employers

added those jobs despite inflation high interest rates and recession fears. labor market has defied predictions of a sharp slowdown in job growth for most of this year. it may be industries such as leisure and hospitality are still catching up to their pre-covid payroll levels says one expert in an economist. william in virginia, democratic caller. we are in open forum. good morning. caller: hey. yes, i was in the military for 20 years and when i went in the money was very low. i was in there for five years. my pay got to $100. when i got out in my basic pay was about $750.

i saved over $100,000 and i started saving a dollar a day in 1962. as i went up in rank if i got a $20 raise up at $15 in the bank. when i got out i was making $13.50 a month and i got savings $500 and when i got out i saved over $100,000. i retired in 1974 and it is when i saved that $100,000. i had not bought in anything in credit over four years and i tell people and by that has a job, to pay a bill, they ought to save money to pay yourself. i'm bite anything on credit in over 40 years -- i'm not about anything on credit in over 40 years. i try to have a rainy day for

$5,000 i can use at any time. i have been blessed. people that have a job they can do so also. host: william there in virginia. i want to share other news with you this morning. "wall street journal" has the headline about this new social media platforms. meta threads at sea early success. 30 million user drawing advertiser interest in twitter's ire. c-span is a new account on the third app so if you're on host: john in michigan. independent caller. good morning. caller: i would like to discuss

the new form of slavery in america. this is people coming from the southern border, being indebted to people of other countries, and doing terrible things to pay that debt. host: all right. sharon in maryland, democratic caller. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: doing well. caller: i was calling about the city with -- about the situation going on in our country. things are so screwed up, messed up, backwards. the way things are going, it does not matter what color you are. red, white, yellow. it is not going right. to bring a man back into presidency of the united states after the wrongs heaved into our country, it does not make sense. we should not allow that man to

come back because of what he did with january 6. people are trying to live their lives and pick up and do what they can to survive. they are not thinking about our children or nothing like that. it is just messed up. to have a man in office that raped a woman and you file behind this man. there are a lot of women who have gotten raped. host: for vice president mike pence was confronted about the role he played on january 6 when he was at the pizza ranch in sioux city, iowa this week. [video clip] >> it is an issue that continues to be misunderstood. i god's grace, i did exactly what the constitution of the united states required of me. i kept my oath. [applause]

let me be respectful of the question. states conduct our elections. you never want to let washington, d.c. run our elections and certainly never want one person in washington dc to decide what the president of the u.s. can be. states conduct elections. we have reviews of the results, 60 different lawsuits that went to the courts. there are two ways they review. number one is you take the issues to the legal process of this a4 recounts. then you take them to the courts traded very aggressively.

and in every instance where they would have any impact whatsoever. at the end of the day, when iowa certified there was so and when indiana certified our results, the constitution of the united states in article two says the job of the vice president is to serve as the presiding officer in a joint session where you open and count the votes. not take my word for it. those read the constitution. i say this with great respect. my job was to oversee a session of congress where objections could be heard. i made sure objections would be recognized so we could hear whatever evidence or whatever debate there was. the constitution says you open and count the votes, no more, no less. the constitution does not give authority for the vice president or anyone else to reject votes or return them to the states.

it has never been done before and should never be done in the future. that is what the constitution says. no vice president ever asserted the authority that you have been convinced i have. i said before that president trump was wrong about my authority that day and is still wrong. host: the former vice president in sioux city, iowa this week. for all our campaign coverage, go to c-span.org. mika, independent. we are in open forum. caller: i had a different thing i was going to talk about until i just heard that from our lovely, former vice president. guy, they wanted to hang you. why are you defending this dude? have some self-respect. it is wild to me that you can be like, we need to look at both

sides of the issues of this guy that wanted you dead. mr. pentz, have some self-respect. you. have a good morning. host: good morning. democratic caller. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my topic is donald trump as a candidate. i know he was born in the united states but i believe he has disqualified himself. he has become un-american. he proposed terminating the constitution. the constitution is the very foundation of our country and provides our freedom and the rights we have as american citizens. secondly, he refuses to recognize the votes of the people. voting is the heart of the democracy. he says the election he lost

does not count. that is completely against our country. finally, he constantly attacks journalism. the free press is the only group of people that can hold powerful people to account. because of that, it is a threat to him so he attacks. for those three reasons, he is unqualified to ever be president. host: gina in mississippi, republican. it's undermined this morning? -- what is on your mind this morning? caller: i would like to piggyback off what that gentleman said. journalism can also destroy a person with the lies that are propagated. one being that donald trump great somebody -- raped

somebody. i would like to know why you did not say something about that because we all know that is a bald-faced lie. so many lives are spread about donald trump on this show and nothing is ever done to dispute them. that is one reason why so many democrats are so terrible, because the amount of lies are told on this show about 10 that all these misinformed people say -- about him that all these misinformed people say. i think all these people are lying and that sees dan, who is propagating these lies, -- that c-span, who is propagating these lies, is going to pay. i think you -- i thank you for letting me talk. host: rounds, long island, new york.

independent. caller: i would like to comment on the gentleman who made remarks about donald trump not being qualified to be president. i think that was totally unfair. first, i believe the election was so influenced that donald trump was correct to point that out. the beat -- the media, unfortunately, we do not have free press in this country. the media kept using phrases like "the big lie" as if donald trump's insurrection was not valid when there was so much fraud. it would be quite correct for him to be president again because he had been cheated out of it. i also want to mention that time

for open forum is so limited. why waste time, for example, with having mike pence speak? he is given so much opportunity to speak anyway. it is a waste of time. you should just dedicate it to the very limited time you have for open forum. finally, i was curious. what is the construction going on on the west side of the capital? did you mention what that is? host: on the west side of the capitol building? the side facing the ball -- the mall. i will look up a story or the producer can. i am not sure. but you can see it out our window?

caller: no, the other side. host: why do you ask? caller: just on the fourth of july when they had the event, i saw it on the program. host: ok. thank you. lindsay, ohio, democratic caller . caller: i just wanted to talk about a couple things a few people before me said with regards to spreading lies about donald trump. i would like to start off by saying -- host: we lost her. ed in tennessee, republican. hello. caller: i have never voted in my life.

that person was so misinformed about donald trump raping somebody that i will vote republican. there are two old white men and then they think one of them lies but the other lies. joe biden lied just as much as donald trump did. why can these people not see that? joe biden this, joe biden that. joe biden is the president and everything he does gets covered up. that is all i have to say. host: ok. we will take another break. when we come back, we are going to be joined by reuters's national security correspondent jonathan landay with a review of the withdrawal from afghanistan. we will also preview next week's nato summit. ♪ announcer: from 1966 to 1976,

china experienced a cultural revolution. during that time, millions of chinese were killed and many were persecuted by the chinese government for being enemies of the date. sunday, guardian newspaper editorial writer and former corresponding tonya shares her book which profiles many people targeted during this period and discusses the lasting impacts of the cultural revolution in china today. >> mao had begun to move against people in the party that he wanted out of the way. he also issued a notification within the top ranks of the party of believe we have been corrupted and we have revisionists with the reins and have to read them out. this is a problem that goes righthrough our society and culture. there has to be a fundamental change.

the red guard group which had begun to split up tentatively were given the marks of mao's approval so it lights the fumes on the hong kong revolution. it makes it not just a party matter but a universal matter. announcer: tania bradigan with her book "rent memory", sunday night on c-span q&a. you can listen on all of our podcasts on our free c-span now at. be up-to-date in the latest in publishing with book tv's podcast about books with current nonfiction book releases plus bestseller lists and trend through insider interviews. you can find the book on c-span, our free mobile app, or where ever you get your podcasts.

announcer: a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed. a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ announcer: washington journal continues. host: joining us for our next half hour is jonathan landay, national security correspondent with reuters. this report from the state department was dropped the friday before the fourth of july holiday. here is redhead line.

the 20 afghanistan evacuation critical of both president biden and former president trump. what were the takeaways? guest: that was one of the major takeaways. the reason is because the white house issued its own reports back in april that we were told included, or summarized, both this state department report and a defense department after action review that looked at the way the defense department performed in the evacuation and withdrawal from afghanistan. at this report has been classified. we have not seen that report. nevertheless, what was striking is the fact the state department criticized president biden as well as president trump.

but the white house report that we were told it fed into lacked any of that criticism of president biden and basically blamed the chaos of the withdrawal in 2021 on failures of the trump administration host: -- administration. host: why was the biden administration at fault and why was the trump administration fault guest: -- fault? guest: it was president trump who entered into the withdrawal deal with the taliban in return for very little else. it was supposed to lead to peace talks between the taliban and the then western-backed government it's happened. president trump had been trying

to withdraw troops all along until the end of his administration into their work successive troop drawdowns which, in the end, left only about 2000 troops on the ground in kabul mostly. where they were basically in charge of guarding the embassy but also the airport. when the biden administration was sworn in, there were no plans that the trump had left or prepared for this withdrawal. the report false president biden for taking actions, which includes his decision to follow through with the withdrawal, albeit later than the taliban stipulated. this withdrawal had serious

impacts on the ability of the western-backed government and the current president to not only maintain power but run the country which led to its collapse. the reports blames both president biden and president trump for taking actions that undermined the security of the then government. host: from the reports, the decisions of both president biden and president trump to end the u.s. military mission in afghanistan has serious impacts on the security. the after action review team found that during both administrations, there was insufficient senior level consideration of worst-case scenarios and how quickly those might follow.

what does this mean? "insufficient senior level consideration"? guest: all along, there were expectations based on the intelligence committee sessions that at the very least, kabul would be able to hold out against the taliban advance. it had been rapid over the previous months. based on that, there was no, according to this report, worst-case scenario planning, i.e. that couple could collapse faster than what was expected and the government could collapse and flee the country. there was little or no senior level involvement in contingency planning for the worst-case scenarios which is what we eventually saw.

one thing to note is the white house report did talked about multiple planning sessions at the national security council and consideration of more than worst-case scenarios, yet did not say anything about senior level involvement in that planning. the after action report finds both administrations had no or little senior level involvement in planning for the worst-case scenario that could accompany a u.s. withdrawal and the evacuation of americans and other foreigners and at risk afghans. host: who should have been involved? who are the most senior level officials? guest: that would have been the president's, both donald trump and joe biden, and their national security advisor's which are the topmost cabinet

members involved in national security, including the secretary of defense and the secretary of state. host: how could they not be involved in the withdrawal from afghanistan, given our presence there after 9/11 and for two decades that followed? guest: it does not say they were not involved. it says they were not involved in the planning of considering worst-case scenarios. in the case of the biden administration, one has to remember that they came into office in january, facing a may deadline that had been agreed upon by president trump facing a withdrawal of u.s. forces. that's gave them less than five months -- that gave them less than five months to put together what ended up being the largest and most complicated troop withdrawal and civilian

evacuation operation. there were no plans left on the shelf by the trump administration for such a withdrawal and evacuation. they had to cope with this themselves in a very restricted amount of time. plus, let's not forget, it was in the middle of the covid pandemic when covid was impacting not just the united states government and personnel here, but also very much in the embassy in afghanistan. this really interfered with their ability to put together were participates or plan -- together or participate or plan. it notes that despite covid and

other issues, the embassy staff performed valiantly. so their recommendation at the end of the reports about how to deal and prepare for this kind of operation in the future. host: i want to invite our viewers to join in. for questions or comments about the withdrawal and fall of afghanistan. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. include your first name, city and state. remind us what happened with the withdrawal?

what happened with the withdrawal and describe the following afghanistan. guest: there had been weeks before the taliban moved on couple -- on kabul. they had been taking over at an incredible, unexpected pace. the afghan national security forces were in a state of collapse. the government was fumbling, unable to prevent this collapse of a military that the united states had spent billions of dollars on building an army. as the taliban moved towards kabul, the biden administration, which had not met the may deadline president trump agreed to for a complete u.s. withdrawal, moved into this

withdrawal and evacuation of embassy staff and other civilians and other foreigners, and at-risk afghans. there were tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands or millions of afghans in some way, shape, or form who had worked for the u.s. government or foreign militaries who were deemed to be at risk. one thing the report finds fault with the state department's failure to determine which categories of at risk afghans should be evacuated. right up until the time of the evacuation, they had not made that determination, nor had they arranged places for them to go. as the taliban closed on kabul, the evacuation and withdrawal operation was launched. towards the end day, -- towards

the end, the president quit and the taliban moved into kabul as the evacuation was underway. this required incredibly deft handling on the ground by u.s. diplomats and military personnel. in some ways, the taliban did cooperate in trying with at least to the evacuation of the foreigners. but there were real problems that because of the legacy they had left of their rule in the 1990's, which ended with the u.s. invasion, afghans went into basically panic because this was a islamic fundamentalist rule that imposed an incredibly

authoritarian system on the country in the 1990's. people remember this and afghans remembered how women were treated under the taliban. we have seen, now, a replication of the treatment of women by this movement. there were tens of thousands of afghans trying to get out, trying to get into the international airport, which is basically in the city. they were thronging the perimeters of the airport. at one point, tragically, an islamic state suicide bomber made his way into the middle of the wrong -- the throng outside at the gate and kill something like 13 american servicemembers and more than 150 afghans.

this happened in the midst of this withdrawal and you had afghans breaking into the airport and clinging to the sides of planes as they were taxiing out. u.s. troops were basically taking afghans who made it into the airport and putting them on flights without checking documents. a lot of afghans who were lifted out eventually ended up basically stranded in so-called lily pads that were eventually sent up to receive afghans. some are still in these places. like a humanitarian city in the uae and kosovo. host: charles in charlotte, north carolina. republican.

caller: good morning. with this reports, he seems to equate the actions by donald trump and president biden as equal but it almost makes it seem like president biden had his back against the wall by president trump and had no ability to make any decisions. in the case of the airport, literary advisors said keep the airport open and keep 2500 people but joe biden went against that and said, we are giving the airport back. laura ceiling men wrote a great story about the bombing of abbey gate that your guest mentioned. chief millie and -- milley and austen knew this was coming.

they knew about the suicide bomber but they could not get eight closed. they kept it open because the british were coming in. 200 people died, 13 servicemen. i think it was two days or the next day, but the military people wanted a retaliation and did a drone strike against aid workers because they thought there were more suicide bombers and they killed a family. that is the legacy of the biden administration. cannot equate what donald trump did with what joe biden dead. this was the biggest disaster in many years. it was a fiasco. host: jonathan landay. guest: it is interesting because what the military was telling president biden was there were only 2500 american troops left in at nana stan -- left in

afghanistan because of what they authorized after leaving and pushing the president to release 5000 imprisoned taliban fighters. president biden was being advised by his military that if he tried to stay and maintain an american presidents -- an american presence in afghanistan, they would be attacked by the taliban. the taliban made repeated warnings that they would do such a thing and that 2500 troops would not be enough to secure kabul into the withdrawal and they would have to send another 10,000 americans back into afghanistan. this was something that we know joe biden opposed. when he was vice president, he had been pushing for a drawdown and keeping only enough troops

in afghanistan to be able to conduct counterterrorism operations. one has to remember that would have had to have been with the say-so of the taliban. regarding the closure and handling of the airport, i think your caller is referring to a different air force base. i can tell you that bagram air force base is 34 kilometers north of kabul. there are two highways that go there. one was built during the communist era because the other one was so prone to ambushes. it passes through towns and settlements and villages. eventually both of these roads converge sort of the gate of bagram -- converge short of the

gate of bagram. i have witnessed occupation by the group along this road. one can imagine the absolute chaos and bloodshed that could have happened had the administration decided to keep bagram open and conducted evacuations from their itself. the traffic jams would have been unbelievable and it would have been prone to taliban ambushes. the base itself would have been prone to attacks by the taliban. so the decision was made to close bagram and hand it over because it would have been untenable to keep american troops there with the expectation they would not have gotten into major battles with the taliban. regarding the drone strike, absolutely. your caller is right.

there was a drone strike the day after on what the military believed were islamic state fighters preparing for another suicide attack. it turned out to be humanitarian workers and they killed the workers and civilians, and family members, in a major tragedy. the fact is, to be able to say this is all joe biden's fault is just not the way things turned out. the decision to withdraw from afghanistan was made by president trump. he forced the release of 5000 taliban fighters. and we now know that president trump issued orders for a complete withdrawal in december of 2020.

the military had to persuade him not to implement that because it would have been an even bigger disaster. host: from the state review, crisis, preparation and plning was inhibited to a degree by concerns about the signals that might be sent, especially anything that might suggest the u.s. had lost confidence in the afghan government and thus contribute to its collapse. translate that for us, jonathan landay. guest: it is basically standing that the administration was facing a situation where, if it has started any kind of major withdrawal or evacuation or any kind of action like that, it would have undermined, as the report found it did, the stability and security of the afghani government. they were facing a dilemma where

it was clear the taliban were advancing on kabul, or advancing . this was months before. any action they took that undermined or hinted at the fact the u.s. was going to leave would have had an incredibly negative impact on the security and stability of the afghani government. host: joseph in pennsylvania, democratic caller. . caller: good morning. thank you very much for the in-depth analysis that you are providing. it has been very helpful. i don't think people are listening. basically, donald trump threw down troops and made an agreement for withdrawal five months after the administration -- after the new administration took place.

the new administration that he failed to acknowledge and fail to assist in transitioning to being in charge. he did this. then the withdrawal had to take place. what were the options left for the biden administration? i want the report to explain to me what he should have done. yes, he should have planned for the worst case scenario, but how do you prevent the worst case scenario. we spent so much money on that country and what did they do? they walked off the job and quit, left the taliban to do whatever they wanted. yes, we were scraping and trying to get as many people out as the could and it was a mess. but what was the alternative? what should joe biden have done

differently to make this not be a disaster? thank you. host: recommendations? guest: let's stick to the recommendations in the report which says the state department needs to do much more planning in the future or needs to take actions now that would allow it to handle these situations in a much more proficient way if this ever happens again. there is a whole range, including upgrading crisis management teams, to appointing what they call a principal level which is a very senior, congressionally -- a senate confirmed official should be appointed to be the overall manager. this was one of the false the report -- the faults the report

identified. one thing the report makes clear is its findings reflect badly on secretary of state antony blinken. even though it does not mention him by name. the management failures or shortfalls that were identified as with the state department handling -- were identified as with the state department handling and are on antony blinken. and the way the biden administration conducted this withdrawal. the report reflects badly on the way he managed the situation even though it does not mention him by name. host: what part of the review says this about the evacuation? "the state department proved unable to help those on the ground from receing multiple

direct calls or messages from current or former senior officials, embers of congress, or private citizens asking and in some cas demanding that they provide assistance pacific at-risk afghans, putting employees at greater risk and hindering the effort to mov people out. constantly changing guidance and messages from shington, regarding how they should manage outreach and flow, adding to the confusion, and often failing to take into account key facts on the ground." guest: what this is referring to is let's go back to the really chaotic weeks leading to the withdrawal with the last u.s. troop on august 30. get the u.s. had been in afghanistan for 20 years and

relationships were forged between u.s. officials and afghan officials and afghan soldiers and ordinary civilians. the chaos -- when the chaos at the airport was shown across the world and in the u.s. on television screens, american officials, former officials, former and current military, and civilians who had worked in afghanistan began inundating members of congress and the state department, and i assume even the white house, to try to get the afghans they felt needed to get out because of the service they had rendered to the united states, making them at risk of taliban retribution. we saw a sort of spontaneous

creation of these private evacuation groups, many of them involving former u.s. military and former u.s. aid and diplomatic personnel, making these calls and organizing private flights to try to supplement the evacuation flights that were leaving the international airport. in a lot of cases, these private efforts succeeded in evacuating many more afghans than could be accommodated. in the end, they succeeded in getting more than 125,000 people out, including more than 6000 americans. the problem was there were more than 1000 americans that were still stranded despite the state department issuing warnings to

not stay in afghanistan and to get out ahead of the collapse of the government. these efforts are still going on today where some private groups are still coordinating with the state department, now, the evacuation flights of afghans who qualify for special immigration visas. this is a special program for at-risk afghans who worked for the u.s. government and u.s. military for those 20 years. host: are these people hiding from the taliban while they wait to get out? guest: i don't know that they are hiding out but they are certainly incredibly nervous about staying in half and a stand, under -- staying in afghanistan, under the taliban administration. we have seen you and and other reports -- seen u.n. and other

reports of killings. i believe sharif, an afghan who had been a militia leader and left the country and came back, was killed. i have afghan acquaintances who are still in kabul and temp try to get out and applied for these visas -- kabul and have tried to get out and applied for these visas. caller: question and comment. i am curious as to why april 30 of 1975 -- people climbing on helicopters and the same chaos.

you will have this chaos every time you have a retreat or withdrawal out of a foreign country. what is surprising to me and what is being missed on this whole conversation is this is, again, why the american people are losing faith in their government. you have all these people in their bureaucratic positions, who are career officials and do not come and go every four or eight years. putting blame on the presidents is a little shallow because the blame lies within the federal bureaucracy and the people advising the president. you still have some people still running the show. milley and austen are still running the show and are just as incompetent now as they were then. and the people underneath them in the state department are still incompetent. it is apparent to anyone who

pays attention at all were reads that they are full of a bunch of ivy league undereducated idiots that act like they have the ability to lead and guide people. they have no clue improve it every day to the american people. host: jonathan landay, did anyone get fired? guest: as far as i can recall, there has been no one held accountable for what we saw happen during those two weeks at kabul international airport. host: ronald, north carolina, republican. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: this notion that donald trump was responsible for this too is totally ridiculous. joe biden is commander-in-chief.

the fellow who just called said the chiefs were responsible. joe biden was advised not to do this. in this agreement that donald trump made, condition met this has to be done before this was done. he followed none of this. so the blame to get on and support this report is ridiculous. host: let's get a response. guest: i cannot comment on what the report said. i can tell you that yes, the military had different reviews -- different views on how this should be received. these were communicated to not just president biden but also president trump. especially when he issued an order for a complete evacuation and withdrawal of u.s. troops just before he left office in

december of 2020, i believe. he had to be talked out of that by the military and his national security advisers. host: more from the reports on the fall of the afghani government. the southern -- the sudden departure of president ghani from kabul and the advance of the taliban happens with a speed that caught all people by surprise. until commercial flights out of afghanistan were available and even afghans planning to depart were taking time to settle affairs but there were warning signs that prospects the afghan forces would defend kabul and hold off for a transfer of power were evaporating. can you expound? guest: again, we saw the unexpected, rapid collapse of the afghan national defense

forces, which have been problematic for years anyway with issues such as ghost soldiers. salaries were paid to nonexisting troops and the money taken by their commanders. there were many other issues, including the fact that president biden, one of the orders he issued under this withdrawal was a withdrawal of all u.s. military contractors. military contractors were absolutely critical in the functioning of the former andsf including the air force which was almost totally dependent on american contractors to keep

their helicopters and aircraft's flying. so the air force -- the ability of the air force as a functioning force was undermined by this. there were numerous other steps that were taken that led to the situation that we saw. but the afghani government itself -- many experts have been pointing to serious problems within the afghani government itself, including the use of patronage and the appointment of senior military commanders for patronage reasons and political reasons. of commanders who were not capable of commanding their forces.

as provincial capital after provincial capital fell, the afghan security forces started to fall apart as well. except for their commando units which fonts on pretty hard -- which fought on pretty hard and well into the end of that government. in the end, the government simply packed up, got into the helicopters, or on foot, and left. host: what happened to president ghani? guest: i believe he is either in the uae now -- i believe he and his officials were able to get to but i believe is to take a stand -- is tajikastan. host: catherine, independent.

you are next. caller: my memory of this time was donald trump had a particular date when he would start getting our guys back and then it was pushed off or longer period of time and ended up in joe biden's desk. my feeling at the time is there had to have been a whole lot of planning done before donald trump to even get it started, yet supposedly donald trump was not leaving behind, when he was finished, any kind of communications to make a smooth transition to the joe biden presidency. then at that time, i felt joe biden was pushed to do this because it was what the united states government had already planned. can you explain that to me? guest: you pretty much have that right. the fact is president trump entered into an agreement with the taliban.

that the taliban themselves did not uphold their end of the bargain. when it came time for the transition, the biden administration, which is reflected in other reports, was left no plans. they had no planning for an evacuation or troop withdrawal. it was this date in may 2021 that was inherited by the biden administration when they came into office, assuming there were plans that had been made, given the fact this agreement for the total u.s. withdrawal have been made in february of 2020. the most a full year earlier --

almost a full year earlier than the withdrawal date that u.s. troops had to be fully out. host: david, new york, democratic caller. caller: you can always point your finger at administrations but the bottom line was if the military of afghan and the men quit and refused to fight. they had 20 years in there with top training and to top equipment but they just lay down. host: let's take that point. jonathan landay. guest: your caller is right. the afghan forces effectively collapsed except for their commandos who have been trained by u.s. special forces. they fought on and some are still at the core of a very

small, national resistance movement. but this has basically been neutralized by a massive taliban offensive into the area north of kabul where they were based. yes, the fact is that the andsf did collapse but one of the reasons might very well have been because -- the u.s. presence, which sort of provided afghans with this pillar of support, because whenever they would get into trouble, in would come the u.s. airpower for the most part to help extract them. they were dependent on the u.s. religious and the u.s. -- on the u.s. military for logistics and

training and intelligence. when this all went away, it had the impact of undermining and leading to the collapse of the afghan forces themselves. host: jonathan landay, before me let you go, i want to get your reaction to the nato secretary-general holding a briefing ahead of next week's nato summit, saying the nato countries will reaffirm ukraine should join the alliance with the leaders meet. what do you make of this? guest: it is hard to say. the fact is the word "reaffirm" refers to the fact that in 2008, nato leaders opened the doors to ukraine's membership in the alliance. although they assigned no date and did not say when this would happen or the conditions to

under which this would happen and they have just left this dangling. of course, that never happened. there are members of the alliance, particularly in the former soviet bloc, and the baltic states as well, front line states who wanted more than that from the summit next week -- who want more than that from the summit next week. they want a solid roadmap that shows how ukraine will get into nato and they want other, or concrete measures approved by the nato alliance -- more concrete measures approved by the nato alliance. president zelenskyy and ukraine agrees there cannot be membership for ukraine while the war is going on but eastern european members in the baltic states want more than this. they want a more concrete

pathway staked out for ukraine to join nato. host: our viewers can stay with us on c-span1. in a couple of minutes, we will show the entire briefing by the nato secretary-general. do follow jonathan landay's report, go to reuters.com. thank you very much for the conversation this morning. guest: my pleasure. host: that does it for today's washington journal. inc. you for watching and enjoy -- thank you for watching and enjoy your friday. ♪

>> here is a look at live coverage today. a discussion about data privacy with steve lang. the virtual event is being hosted by the atlantic council. at 1:00 p.m., jake sullivan briefs white house reporters on the president's upcoming european trip, including stops in the u.k. and lithuania for the nato summit. at 3:30 p.m., the president is expected to announce new initiatives to reduce health care costs for americans. watch these events on c-span or on c-spannow, our free video app, or online at c-span.org. the labor department reports that employers added 2009 jobs in june, coming in below wall street estimates.

in addition, the unemployment rate fell from 3.7% to 3.6% for the month. employment is trending up in government, health care, social assistance and construction. the next jobs report will be released on friday, august 4. from 1966 to 1976, china experienced a cultural revolution. millions of chinese were killed during that time and tens of millions were persecuted by the government for being enemies of the state. on sunday, guardian newspaper editorial writer kenya branyan shares her book, discussing the lasting impact of the cultural revolution in china today. >> mouth -- mao was moving against people in the party. he'd also issued a notification

that told people within the top ranks of the party, look, i believe we have been corrupted. we have got revisionists in their ranks and we have to root them out. this is a problem that goes through our society, through cultur there must be a fundamental change. the red guard groups, which had begun to spring up rather tentatively, were given the mark of mao's approval, so it really lit the fuse on the cultural revolution. it made it not just a party matter, but a universal matter. announcer: the book read memory, saturday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen to q&a on the free c-span now app. ♪ announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of governmen