short break. we will reconvene at 225 to -- reconvene at 2:25.

[indistinct chatter] politics.ct chat >> "wash host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined this morning by university of maryland associate professor, joshua shifrinson and the atlantic council's daniel fried. we are going to be discussing president joe biden's upcoming trip to the annual nato summit which will be held in vilnius, lithuania, and also the security options nato might consider to support ukraine, and deter future russian aggression. good morning to you both. guest: good morning. guest: morning. host: so i will start with you

josh. tell us a bit about this nato summit. broadly, what are the items on the agenda? guest: so broadly speaking, this is a nato summit that is occurring in the wake of a secondy year the russia-ukraine war and the second year of russian aggression against ukraine. and so the key question facing the alliance today really has to do with the future of russian aggression. number one, the question is how do you support ukraine in the face of russian aggression? and number two, given that nato has been pivoting to focus on the hard defense tasks that have really mastered during the cold war and then let linger a little bit after the cold war, how do you rebuild an effective nato defense in and around central and eastern europe? host: thank you. okay, to you, one of the biggest topics, and i see here you are a former ambassador to poland which is a nato country. one of the biggest topics will be how to guarantee long-term security for ukraine. so first, can you lay out the

view in washington as far as what is the position that -- in america on ukraine joining nato, and is it different from other european allies? guest: back in 2008, nato decided that someday ukraine would become member of the alliance, and that is the short and right answer for how to guarantee security in europe. bring ukraine into nato. the biden administration has frankly been slow to advance this, but they are moving, and we will see how the nato summit comes out. but putin's war against ukraine, this war of aggression means that ukraine should not be left in a gray zone of insecurity. it needs to be brought in the alliance, just as poland was and lithuania was. host: so, i want to get your take on this, but before i do, i want to go ahead and promote our

phone lines because we want you to start calling in now with your questions for ambassador fried or professor shifrinson, or your comments about national security, international affairs. again, democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls in just a moment. so, josh, what is your view on the matter? do you think nato needs to be taking steps now to admit ukraine? guest: well, so, the ambassador and i disagree a little bit on this issue. i certainly understand that the 2008 bucharest summit declaration promised ukraine eventual membership to nato. it did not do so with practical steps. i think though that the future, the possibility of taking ukraine to the alliance presents some really dangerous possibilities for the united states. after all, the biden administration and the united states has signaled throughout the current conflict that it's not willing to fight for ukraine today. by extending ukraine into nato in the future, you are saying,

"i might fight for you in the future." well, that is either going to generate a crisis with russia, perhaps a war with russia, or it is going to require a credibility crisis if the u.s. backs down in an emergency. both of those are very scary possibilities. so, i am much more reluctant and actually quite concerned about the possibility of taking ukraine into nato. guest: well, as josh said, we have a different take on that. i think the united states -- u.s. interest will be advanced if ukraine is in the alliance because countries in the alliance, in nato, tend not to be attacked by russia. ukraine outside of the alliance has been attacked twice. bringing ukraine in is going to help prevent a war. leaving ukraine out is going to guarantee that putin tries again. i think we can defend ukraine. the united states has already pledged to defend poland, lithuania, estonia, and latvia.

and defending ukraine is actually easier than defending estonia and latvia. we can do it, and it is in our interest to do it. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including buckeye broadband . ♪ >> buckeye broadband supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. this week on the c-span network. the house and senate are both in. the house will debate on the annual defense program and policy bill and the senate considers president biden's executive judicial nominations.

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