host: good morning. it is monday, july 17. the union representing hollywood

actors agreed to join writers who are already on strike. because are not the only disgruntled employees on the picket line. there could be more. contract negotiations between ups and teamster have come to a standstill. today, we want you to share your views of labor unions and these current, potential strengths. do you agree with the employees on the picket lines? call us down. if you support the striking workers, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you oppose the union strength call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are (202) 748-8002.

you can also -- if you are a member, past or present, call us at (202) 748-8002. if you want to text us, you can call us -- you can text us at (202) 748-8003. let's start off by talking about that labor strike that just started with the hollywood actors. here is an article in the washington post and the headline says nation faces hot labor summer. i will scroll down and read a little bit from this article. first it was nurses and then graduate students, then elementary school workers. now it is hotel employees and tv and movie writers, and hollywood actors who walked off the job on

friday. they are feeling emboldened, as they look at post-pandemic corporate profits. after a cascade of successful walkouts in southern california and beyond. let's pull up to another portion of this same article. it says, it is not just los angeles. what social media has labeled a high labor summer is all over the co it could be adding up to a critical moment for the labor movement, which has been losing strength in the u.s. for decades. that is from an article on friday in the washington post. i want to bring up another article. this one is cnn, talking about the potential ups strike.

a 10 day ups strike could be the costliest in the u.s. history. a 10 day ups strike could cost the economy $7.1 billion. that could make it the costliest work stoppage in u.s. history. the estimate from anderson economic groups as a hit to businesses and consumers would be 4.6 billion dollars by itself, causing significant and lasting harm for small businesses, household workers, practitioners and online retailers across the country. other costs include losses at ups, as well as $1.1 billion in

lost wages by 300 40,000 members of the teamster's union at the company. the remaining cost would be borne by ups suppliers and for lost tax revenue. the ups is not on strike yet, but the teamsters union says contract negotiations are not going well. i will do a couple more headlines. this plan is in the hill. united auto workers head saying union prepared to strike against big three automakers. the head of the united auto workers raised the prospect of strikes ahead of talks with the three biggest automakers in detroit, later this month. industry faces major changes amid the shift to electric vehicles. one last article.

this one is today's front page of the new york times. this is just today in the new york times. they care a little bit more about the striking actors, the headlines. it says, and may, when 11,500 movie and television writers went on strike, companies like netflix and disney reacted with what amounted to a shrug. the walkout was not great, but they expected it for months. the angry response from the corporate ranks was dramatically different. what began as an inconvenience has become a crisis. a membership of about 160,000 people, including world-famous celebrities who captivate

audiences. the film and tv script in case of a writer strike have been suddenly rendered inert. they are deprived of actors to bring them to life. venom three had to shut down, deadpool three and gladiator two. there is a lot of labor disputes and we want to hear from you this morning, your view of labor unions in general, what you think about these recent strikes . if you support the striking workers, the number is (202) 748-8000. if you oppose the strikes, call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are a union member, current or previous, the number we want you to call is (202) 748-8002.

you can also send us a message, a text message at (202) 748-8003 . let's start with ricky. ricky is in philadelphia. you support labor strikes. tell us why. caller: yes. i support labor strikes for one reason. most of these big corporations are thinking about profit. they have families and all that. especially with medical, medicare -- the medical cost is going up. i know they want better medical care for their families.

i definitely want to support their cause. host: we appreciate your call this morning. acting labor secretary seth carries was on cnbc last friday. he had this to say about the labor movement now. >> give me the activism. hit it yet teamsters threatening to strike against ups, you have the beginning of union negotiations with victory automakers. what is fueling the discontent among employees? >> in a word, it is angry. workers are angry about how they were treated during the pandemic , that they put themselves at risk," -- in order to maintain profits for their employers, and

their employers did not look out for them. they are angry about profits. these companies made obscenely huge profits during the pandemic and continue to make massive profits. they have not shared those profits with their workers. and they are very enthusiastic about the labor movement. it has never been more popular in the u.s., particularly among young workers. there are tight labor markets and workers have a great deal of plaque -- of power. workers now are ready to get theirs. that speech that you heard, you could have heard that speech at any teamsters union hall. they are all singing from the same hymnal. they want to be parried -- they want to be paid fairly.

host: that was harris. he was secretary during the obama administration. let's get to some more of your calls. daja -- tell us why you support the union. caller: good morning. this is the perfect topic. i feel like we are in a society where there are the have and have-nots. therefore, i do support the union. i believe that our workers, employees should share in the profits. we had the ceos of major corporations who are making millions and cruising. thank you for listening. host: let's go to oregon now.

ted, you are a retired union plumber. give us your perspective. caller: well, my father was a member of the international brotherhood of electrical workers. when i was a kid, i lived in three brand-new houses because of what my father was able to provide. when i was in school, i asked dad one time, i said, i think i want to follow your footsteps and become an electrician. he said, son, i love you, but you are too much of a brawler to be an electrician. you should be a plumber. i investigated how to get into that five-year school and i found out that they were taking 25 students every year, maybe every other year. that had a tighter enrollment than the harvard law school, for

crying out. i figured out how to do it. i joined the air force as a guaranteed plumber and i was active duty. finally, i got into that five-year school, and i enjoyed it. i enjoyed every minute of it. i made all kinds of money. and with that said, anybody that does not enjoy a union is leaving a lot of money on the table. i want to say thank you very much and have a great day. host: we appreciate your perspective this morning. we are going to go to some of the responses we are receiving on social media about this question, this morning. joseph is on facebook and wrote, laboring and are a thing of the past. what is on the books is what

should be used. labor unions are a form of communism. let's go to new jersey. labor unions have pros and cons like anything else. yes, they protect the rights of the working class, but as is the case of tenured teachers, they protect the not so great members as well. union members of any particular union should have an obligation to adhere to certain criteria and meet standards. diane writes, while i understand the writer concern, they appear to be entitle people in a field with so much income inequality that i have little sympathy. another writing, so full for existing labor unions. we have gotten too far away from

making sure that the working class is compensated well and protected. i hope we have more unions start up across the country. we want to hear more from you. there are a lot of labor unions either currently on the recently coming off. there was some picketing from airline pilots recently. there have been teacher strikes over the years, hotel worker strikes over the years, and again right now, the ups driver is could go on strike. of course, the hollywood writers are also understrength. what are your views on these labor union disputes. call us if you support them at (202) 748-8000. if you are in opposition to the strength -- the strikes, call us

at (202) 748-8001. if you are a former member, call us at (202) 748-8002. let's talk to john from chantilly, virginia. tell us why you support the strikes. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. we need to educate young people what the purpose is of the union. it is not something where they are taking their money and doing nothing. the reality is this. i travel every summer from pennsylvania, all the way to indiana, and i see people who are -- they really need jobs. you have to understand one thing. 33 years old, a 40-year-old man has aliens of dollars.

i am not against anybody, but the reason this union -- life is changing. the people do not get it. our young people graduate college. they cannot get a job. what is happening? i live in virginia. we have all the good jobs, all the nice places leave. our young people, we do not give them the opportunity to do better in this country. the reality is, unions, we must educate young people and let them know that we have to share the wealth. when i have money, i can travel, i can buy a house and i can do something that my family once, but if i cannot afford anything, how am i going to support my family?

$60 our work 20 hours a day. it cannot afford to buy a bottle of water. is that the life that it is supposed to be? host: let's go to benny now in allegheny, pennsylvania. you support the union strikes. caller: yes, ma'am. i support the union strike because it has become important to receive -- importance of the american dream host: next step is amy in potomac, maryland. caller: i support the strike 100.

i come from a union family and support of the general principles. as we lose the ability to influence the collectivization, is a de facto collectivization of corporate influence in the lobbying and the regulatory capture that we see. the only resistance that we have is to collectivized as workers. i also think it is a human right to be able to get together with your brothers and sisters and demand better conditions from the people who you are effectively working for. host: let's go to sacramento, california now. troy, you are a union member. to tell us about your experience. caller: i just retired last year after 50 years.

i support it because if i was not a union member, right now, i would not be in the situation i am in now, where i can retire and live a good, comfortable life. host: you said 50 50 -- caller: 55 years. host: you tell us you are a teamster. tell us about your line of work. why was being in a union helpful in your career? caller: for one thing, it was good wages and i had protection, especially the time i got in. it was pretty hard because any other organization -- we did not have a lot of people to represent us. if you are a union member, you have rights, and they would

definitely fight for you. host: all right, troy. go ahead. you are going to say something else? caller: i am 77 years old. everybody should have a comfortable life with their kids. i was blessed enough. i do not care how bad the issues are, but without unions, this country would not be anywhere. all the big corporations are making money. the poor people -- it is so expensive to live here. if i were working anywhere else, in the south or anyway, i would not be able to live because they are still paying those people $15 an hour. who can live off of $15 an hour? host: we appreciate you sharing your experiences. i want to go to texas because

earl is on the line and you say you oppose the striking workers. tell us why you feel that way. earl? caller: well, there was a mistake. i do not oppose it. i hit the wrong number. host: that is ok. tell us how you feel about these labor strikes. caller: well, i do not oppose it. i had the wrong number on my phone. host: tell us why he support it. -- you support it. turn down your tv until tell us why you support it. caller: i support the strike because the indians, as a worker

at the foundry here in texas, i have had a dispute with a supervisor that didn't like me, and he fired me, so i went to my union supervisor and his name was fox. i told him, and he told me to come on back to work the next morning, just like i always did. so i came back and they had to pay me for the time that i was off that day. he came over there and fired me. i worked there until i found another, better job. so unions are good. they are a good thing to have.

host: we appreciate your call. next up from port st. lucie, florida. it says you are a member -- union member. caller: good morning. yes, i was a union chair member for the navy district in washington. i was a chairman for seven years and i loved the police officers and i love going to work as a chairman. i had the right to defend the officers, whether it be for better working conditions or anyone that was receiving discipline. for seven years, we were undefeated. i support the strike right now because any opportunity you have to to fight for fair wages or a

better working condition, you should do so. anyone with the opportunity to be in a union, please support your union. they are your representative. can use your union to fight the good fight for you. i have a great relationship with the people who fought for things like that. keep up the good fight. host: next caller is dennis, and pennsylvania. you oppose the strikes? caller: people can do whatever they want to do. it can vote how they would like, but one of my experiences has been, i was a union rep. our hospital was deciding -- we were wondering if we were going to strike or not because of a

new contract coming up. our union rep came in and the guy was worthless. we were trying to negotiate, and he kept giving everything away. i finally had to stop him and fight with my union, as much as i had to fight with the administration, and i asked him, why are you giving everything up? we are negotiating. we have things we will give up, but we are not just going to spill our guts, and he said, because we are going on strike. he said they were striking their own union reps were striking against their administration. i had never heard of such a thing, but they were willing to sell our people outcome even though we had been paying dues. they were willing to sell us out because they were mad. i said that is not right.

we did have having to have a federal mediator coming in, and things got done through him, a whole lot better than it did the union. ever since then, i have been sour on unions. host: thank you for your perspective. let's go to eli, calling from georgia. caller: i retired from a union and i support the union 100%. i got into the union when at the time -- if you are going to drive a truck, you are in a union. three years in a union. i left and went to work for a teamster. i put in 22 years with three

different companies. the point i'm trying to make is you work for one company for 10 years -- i get credit for 35 years. i retired from the union and my wife retired from the union. 19. host: -- thank you. host: let's go to florida. it says you are a member of the teachers union. caller: thank you for taking my phone call. yes. i was a former union story. host: did you ever, or did you come close? caller: we have to have

presentation by using our unions. they will go ahead and stand up, and they will represent us. any kind of union member -- i participated to go to tallahassee, and we went over there and we fought for our rights. might now, in order for you to be a member and stay as a union, you have to have a monthly payment of 61% of their union members. if one person falls behind, that is the end of us. tammy, that is a violation of your rights to be able to speak up and say come these are my right and i have the right to be paid fairly and treated equally. i do have the right to representation at the time something is alleged. i come as a teacher cannot say with details, especially with that, of things that happened,

but i have had to put my phone down and make a call. i had to say, i need union representation right now. he would have a lawyer coming to represent that teacher. thank goodness for that. i would serve the people that happen to have a different union and this is because of the state allowing this to take place. many times this duty and being asked to work a lot of hours and do a lot more things than they were supposed to, for the minimum wage they were getting paid, and it was really bad. and if it had not been for the union, if it had not been for representation, standing up and saying, this is not right, that

would have continued. one lady had asthma. they were still asking her to clean rooms that the teacher would have -- a created a problem for her come healthwise. she was very delicate. that is something we can say when it comes to specifics, but being in union should not have anything related to a policy or politics. there is no reason why anyone should be playing with someone's bread and butter. that should be solely between the union and the employer. this is how we are going to get paid. host: we appreciate your call. we are going to move to west virginia now. jess is on the line. what are your thoughts? caller: i am a supporter of the union. if i can get one minute, i used to work at the hospital in

pennsylvania. it had good benefits and everything. my wife wanted to come back down to west virginia. i picked up a second job at a company. they were not a union. they had a guy worked there for 15 years. he started to make some decent money and they fired him so they could hire to people at his salary. i said, what did he do wrong? they said, he did not do anything wrong. we are in at will employee. we can terminate at any time we want to, with no reason. that is the first time i heard of an at will employee. some be working for 15 years and a dedicated employee, and he fire him because he is starting to make a decent salary? that is why it is important, the

union. thank you and have a nice day. host: before we get to a few more calls, i wanted to show another video. this is liz schuller. she talked about the looming ups strike and others that might be on the horizon. >> i see it as a bellwether for all other strikes that could be on the horizon. they are strikingly similar. it is about workers being taken for granted, being sacrificed through a pandemic. workers feeling disrespected, knowing that they have sacrificed for these companies. ups is a great example. also, the issues around part-time workers have become front and center.

the company is are looking to decrease wages and cut corners. they are looking to cut people's hours, and that is not acceptable in a time where workers are doing more with less. >> you are at the top of one of the largest unions that we have. i'm talking about other delivery systems. amazon is certainly out there. if you? >> there will be a ripple effect and i think people are watching this carefully because it would have a huge impact on the economy. think about the contracts coming up at the same time. right now we are talking about the actors, the screen actors guild and television and radio

artists are at the table with hollywood right now. and then you have the writers guild already on strength. all of that combined and all the other contracts that are ongoing with grocery and essential pieces of our economy could have a huge impact. one negotiation sets the tone. like ups, we were talking about the rest of the economy. this is a signal to treat your workers as the asset that they are. when you have workers who feel like they are respected and compensated fairly, it makes your business more successful. we have made sacrifices and we have made record profits. now is the time to balance the scales and treat your workers failing -- fairly.

host: here is the latest on the potential ups worker strike. this was an article yesterday by the associated press. asking the white house not to intervene if ups workers go on strike. i will read a little bit from the article. the head said he is at the white house not to intervene, if unionized ups workers and going on strike. negotiations between delivery company represented 340,000 of its workers have been at a standstill for more than a week with a july 31 deadline for a new contract approaching fast. the union has threatened to strike if a deal is not reached by the time the collective bargaining agreement has expired.

on whether the white house could force a contract on the union, the president sean o'brien says he has asked the white house on numerous occasions to stay away. there is a political angle there as well. we know the white house did intervene several months ago, when there was a potential strike with real workers. again, it looks like teamster says they do not want the white house to intervene on this. i'm sure ups might have a different opinion on that. i want to hear more from the viewers. we are going to go back to the phone lines. let's go to john edmonds -- and wisconsin. tell us what union you are a former member of. caller: i'm not quite sure.

it was so long ago. we almost went and striped on one contract, but we did not. we got a five cent an hour raise one year and then the next year. $.15 a year, the next. i quit that job. that is why i voted for bill clinton. the union was starting to vote democrat. i do not let anybody tell me how to vote. host: it sounds like you might not have the best opinion of unions after being a member. is that accurate? why do you feel that way? caller: it is. after i left that job, i got hired and i got a dollar 50 -- dollar $.50 raise. i was making $10 an hour when i

got hired in 1993. never had any problems, in my opinion, as long as you show up to work each day and do your job to the best of your ability, most companies treat people fairly. i got a $.25 raise every few months. i was making a dollar an hour the. when it comes to the workers out in hollywood, i see the people get paid millions of dollars to do a movie, and the lead actors are walking and marching. how much they never say how much they are currently making? i know it is a $15 minimum wage, so i do not know what the big deal is. in milwaukee, wisconsin this last week, they had to pass

almost 3% increase in taxes for the city of milwaukee and the county of milwaukee because they have unfunded pension liabilities. the city was going to go broke. they did not fund their pensions well enough. they were going to charge everyone in the see tax money to pay the pensions. host: an interesting point. we appreciate your call. the number to call, if you of strikes, call (202) 748-8000. if you oppose the strengths, the number is (202) 748-8001. if you are a union member, current or former, call us at (202) 748-8002. next on the line is walter from connecticut. what are your thoughts about the labor disputes?

caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: let me tell you something. i started working at 18 years old, right out of high school. i worked 45 years straight at the aerospace company priority. i guarantee that you and most of you folks, you people -- i went to trade school and everything. i do not. i had to deal with the elected president of the union. i'm 68 years old and i'm retired. my point, always tried to make

the even play. i negotiated how many contracts? probably six or seven contracts i negotiated. i went on strike twice. why -- they make the profit. my point here, very quickly, it was not like they did not have the money. they just did not want to give it up. i used to always say to myself -- i'm not saying give them all the money. i always felt -- they do not

care about poor people. most people with those jobs host: host: -- host: we appreciate angelique, -- we appreciate your call. angelique, you are a union member. caller: yes. i am prounion and pro-strike, only when there are meaningful reasoning done that is not being done -- being brought to the table. access to conversation, diplomacy and the ability to work with one another is the reason why they are striking. they are being blocked from communicating. because there is an ignorance or disassociation, it is why people strike. they strike to communicate and to be heard.

it is an economy built on neighbors wanting to speak. honoring one another's voices is important. host: what would be here response to those who say that they are worried about the impact on the economy of the strengths? the trickle effect, not just with the hollywood actors and writers, but it also trickles down to anyone else who related to the industry. what is your response to that? caller: those are major structures that are important to the economy. there is a trickle-down effect and a butterfly effect. as a trick, i was affected getting packages. as a former ups worker, i know how important it is to have

viable respect. they put me through college. they are a great company. when they respect workers, workers respect construction. we need to encourage people to expedite conversations about our voice and negotiations, so they can get what they need. host: thank you for your call. we are going to go to oklahoma city. michael, tell us your thoughts. caller: i am in support of the union. solidarity is incredibly important. for example, the federal minimum wage, nationally is seven $five cents an hour. that has not changed in a long time. 71% of americans support unions. you know, the working class is getting strained over and over again.

we are losing more and more benefits, 66 percent of millennials and gen z do not have any retirement savings at all and have no hope for retiring. if our political leaders are not going to take action, i think it is important for the working class to have solidarity for all and start striking. the corporate class, show them where their money comes from. host: let's go back and look at more of the responses that we have receiving on social media. on facebook says, unions are institutionalized mediocrity. george sends a text message saying unions, like businesses are flawed. if you support i stand with

sag-aftra 100%. andrea on twitter says, labor union support began to add for a reason. they were at risk of becoming obsolete. democrat spending has been a boon for unions. intentionally so. this has allowed unions to avoid changing. it has pumped money into a group that desperately needs a major upgrade. marianne says, growing up in chicago, i saw the downside to unions as well, so i never joined one, the people are thinking and dying without proper union representation. we must stand for humanity, dignity and quality of life strong unions provide. elizabeth logan on twitter. unions are in absolute necessity

with the antiworker values in play due to the gop. we will do one more. this is from joseph. it is actually hard to tell if the labor movement helps or hurts worker. there are a lot of trade-offs. one thing the union is good at is propaganda, telling everyone every thing good that happens is because of them. but today, we want to hear more from you, your view of labor unions and recent strikes. if you support the striking workers, call us (202) 748-8000. if you oppose the striking workers, call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are a current or former union member, dial (202) 748-8002. next step is rick in altoona,

pennsylvania. go ahead. caller: i do's -- i do support the strike. i was a member. the lady who called a couple calls back said she was at ups and is now a teacher. that is an open shot. it means those people sit back and leave the union, letting the that -- letting the unit negotiate for them. the only supporting them if they get into any kind of trouble. now, i was a union member and i was hurt on my job. it took me 17 years, but my union fought for me and got my job back for me. i retired from that. i am definitely pro union.

they will stand behind you, if you need them. there are a lot of nonunion people that sit back and take all the benefits of the union, the races and stuff and do not pay dues. i have no time for them at all. that is my common. thank you. host: from oklahoma city, oklahoma, bob, you say you oppose these labor strikes. caller: i did not ever join a union, but my father was in one, and most of the people in the town i lived in were in one. all i can say is the person who made the comment about gen z not having any pension and having to get by on their own, the unions, with a renew their contracts, they let those pass away. host: we are on a delay.

google --go ahead. caller: the benefits of the unions have lost the pensions. when they negotiate their contracts every so many years, wondering where they are, they gave that up for something else. now they are getting the money that they used to give to the workers -- they are giving it to political groups. that is what happened. the union benefits disappeared and went to politicians because that is what the union bosses wanted. host: ok. let's go to manchester, michigan now. caller: good morning. i wanted to say something about the quality thing. women and people of darker skin, everybody gets paid the same. that is what america is about. you do not try to divide

everyone, well the women are going to get 25% less or something like that. they are always trying to divide us and the union brings us together so that we are on this page. we do not want to put these people out of business. we just want to get our fair share so that we can all live on the planet peacefully. thank you. host: next up is leslie from silver spring, maryland. you are a union member. tell us more. caller: has been a union member my whole life. i found the mediocrity piece interesting that somebody said on social media. i do not does make it easier to fire people who are mediocre. they do try to make them better. in terms of money and sag-aftra, the other guys said they make a lot of money, but the little

guys do not. now they are talking about using the images for free? no. i think unions serve a great purpose. the guy before said equality. we do not all get paid the same. nobody does. there are people who make all the money and then the little guy makes nothing. host: next step is richard in delaware. you are a former union member. caller: good morning. i wanted to make a comment. i have been a member for 40 years. 40 years, and i am proud to say i was a member and a union guy and i support them all away. i retired eight months ago and believe me, union, all the way. labor movement, all the way.

host: ok. let's hear from alvin in texas. caller: i support the unions. i was a union leader for nine years and unity of strength. the fatcats have their things that they live with, but unions built this country, and i hope it stays. that is why they call it the united states of america. host: how will you prepare if your favorite movies and television shows are not available at your packages either get delayed or they start going up in price to get them shipped to you? are you ok with that, as a result of these union strikes? caller: it is not that the unions are making eggs go up. it is the corporation and stuff

that we are fighting against trying to make it look like it. whenever the union goes up, their prices go up. that is why it hurts the consumer. consumers -- whatever product is , you know. we fought hard to get unions in their. in the bore -- big corporations find just as hard to not let union go in there. our union collapse because of reaganomics, where he was busting all the union so they would not have a voice. corporations and big companies have the voice now. unions have to fight for it. host: we appreciate your call this morning. we are going to move on to gordon in sheboygan, wisconsin. what union where you a member of?

caller: the first union i belonged to at 18 years old was machinist and aerospace workers, a very strong union. that was my first experience with being a member. being only 18 and not knowing too much about union my, as i got older, some nonunion shops -- most of my training and manufacturing, machining and then i went to work for a company and got tool training. i have had good experiences and bad experiences with union. one thing i learned is that the union is only as good as the membership that shows up at the meeting and expresses their complaints or concerns.

if you do not show up at a union meeting and you pay your dues and do not like it is going on, that is your own phone. but i organized a union for a company that i worked for that had 10 companies around the u.s. the only one of those shops was the one plant in minnesota that was unionized. the rest of them were not. i transferred from arizona with -- going to the wisconsin plan. had that opportunity. things were so unfair there, that i got a group of people together, about 120 employees at the time. we got together and had a meeting. i said, that is not right. one year, you get the day off, after thanksgiving, the next year, the company says, no, you get thanksgiving off but you

have to come back the friday after, or you do not get paid. i said, that is not right. other things that were happening like the foreman's nephew, 19 to 20 years old, hardly any experience, but he would get an advancement position in the company when there are guys who had been working there 15 to 20 years that put in for the job and did not get it because they were not related to the foreman. host: we got your point. we appreciate your call this morning. let's go to jerry in long beach, washington. you oppose these labor strikes. caller: yes. first of all, i believe that any company that has a union probably deserves it anyway. but i worked with a company for 33 years without a union.

they treated me with dignity and respect. i worked for a company that was unionized. most of our guys would have to drive 200 miles to a jobsite. it is the further i want them to go home on thursday. i called the union to get approval and they said no. i had to work. a personal example, my youngest fourth grade. came home with homework every night. one night, he was really frustrated working with his mom. he said, i wish i had a brain. he said i wish i could go to my teacher for help. we went to the principal and he said, that is not appropriate. then, sometime went home and he came home saying, i wish i had a brain. we went back to the prince will and demanded he fire her. he said i cannot fire her. he said because she is a lesbian

and they will not let me fire her. you know something? the administration, when the auto industry went to hell, we bailed them out. we bailed them out as a country. then what happened? union workers went on strike. at the end of the day, that is baloney. thank you for your time. host: dave, tell us why you support these labor strikes. caller: i support them because these people deserve the ability to demand protection. if you are inside of a workplace, you need the right to collectively bargain. can morning, how are you doing? but being able -- a union worker myself, i ended up probably

having the best experience of my life, as far as work goes, being treated by my employers. i did become an electrician and now i'm doing i.t. and i'm compensated way above the industry standard they still have to deal with all sorts of different pressure from my employers. it's not really the same as the protections i would have been offered by union. host: we appreciate your call. we will take a quick break and then up next, as congress approaches its summer break, there are still tasks to be done by the house and senate. to discuss the week ahead in washington is the hill's congressional reporter eric foley and later, congress is grappling with how to deal with the rise of artificial intelligence. we will be joined by the center for strategic and international studies'grant allen to discuss

the challenges congress faces in that sector. ♪ >> in 1970, twa flight 741 from israel to new york was hijacked and flown to the jordanian desert. historian martha hoje was on that plane along with her sister catherine was 13. a group called the popular front

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overlooked americans where she argues that rural and urban america more in common with what is perceived. she is into by the former north dakota emma craddick senator. watch book tv every weekend on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. >> listening to programs on c-span through c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker, play c-span radio, and listen to "washington journal" daily at 7 a.m. eastern with him -- important congressional hearings and events throughout the day. catch washington today for a fast-paced report on the stories up today and listen to c-span anytime, tell your smart speaker play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal."

we are joint now fight aris fol a congressional reporter for the hill,l good morning. ey guest: thanks for having me. host: thanks are joining us for your first time on "washington journal." we will talk about the week ahead in washington but really, we are talking about what these next two weeks or so before members break for what is a scheduled summer break in august, right? guest: they have about 4-5 weeks. there is a lot of pressure on the house and the senate to get appropriations bill and crafting billions of dollars in legislation. they've gotten a lot of work done so far especially on the house i but they have quite a few bills left to go on the senate side. they have a pretty tight schedule to get a lot of this stuff done in the next few weeks , at least as much as they can be, because when they come back,

they will have two weeks before the government shutdown. host: we will get to all of that. let's start looking back to last week. the house passed the national defense authorization act which is a defense policy bill. but there ended up being a lot of amendments about the culture wars that were in the house version. what are the lessons we can take for that as we know look for, as you said, the appropriations bill that needs to pass by the end of september? guest: i think some of the partisan writers -- riders attached are the bill are similar to policies already seen coming up in appropriations policies that are focused on kind of restricting abortion in states, critical theory, raining and diversity initiatives.

yes, i think what we are seeing is a pattern in the gop house. it's a little more partisan in nature. the ndaa seems to be more partisan in general. that was a partisan vote the past last week but it provides a lesson for the weeks ahead for the appropriations bill because they are also partisan nature and designed that they won't affect a lot of democratic supporters. host: i want to show you video from cbs face the nation yesterday. it's the republican representative michael mccaul and he says he thinks the ndaa will ultimately be a bipartisan bill. [video clip] >> this is a process. we had a lot of amendments are members needed and i think at the end of the day, we come together as a conference. it will be a bipartisan bill. i think there is nothing more important than our national defense or military.

we gave them the largest payraise in 20 years and updated our triad system khmer nuclear capability, a lot dealing with china and taiwan. to not politicize this bill is important and i feel confident that -- on the bipartisan bill coming out. >> you denied transgender coverage for hormone therapy for this restriction on funding for people to get reproductive services including fertility treatments and abortions to travel. none of that you think ends up in the bill? >> since 1980, we haven't funded anything that goes toward taxpayer abortions. some of the policies in the culture that the defense department has instituted has caused problems within our own military. host: again, that's republican representative mccall. the house vote was pretty

partisan, very few democrats supported the ndaa, very few republicans voted against it. what will it look like in the senate and how do they ultimately end up in a bipartisan package the weight he predicted? guest: i think it similar to what we saw with the fiscal responsibly act. republicans started with the bill that host: that's the debt ceiling bill. guest: yes, it was a bill that unified the conference and passed along partisan lines but that was ultimately negotiated with democrats making it past in the democratic led senate. it was much more bipartisan nature and conservatives voted against it and i think we will see something similar to thendaa because the bills we've been seeing in the appropriations process have been largely bipartisan. host: we are talking with aris fo about the week ahead in washington.

lley: with any questions you have for her any comments about how congress is operating these days. go ahead and start calling in now, emma kratz, your line is (202) 748-8000, republicans, (202) 748-8001 and independents (202) 748-8002. while we wait for those calls to come in, you said appropriations, what is the difference right now in how the appropriations process is unfolding in the house versus the senate? guest: for the house, it's going with the strategy of a pretty partisan bill, bills that are not expected to get much democrats support. on the senate side, democrats lead the senate but unlike last year, we are in a divided congress and they know they have

to work with republicans, more republicans this time as the gop led house to get these bills across the finish line. these bills have been passing so far, the first five bills out of the senate appropriations panel, largely in bipartisan support and i'm talking about29-0 margins. is been pretty interesting. they have some difficult bills on the horizon for the committee but there is this want on both sides to make negotiations more easy in the weeks ahead. they think starting with the bipartisan compromise is how they will do that. host: what is the challenge that leadership faces when it comes to trying to avoid a government shutdown at the end of september? guest: i think time. it's always going to be a big factor. they only have so many weeks left in july.

they have to move these bills once they get out of the appropriations panel across the board. they have only so much time. there hasn't really been any conversation on the recess. i think time will be of the essence and one of the biggest hurdles they have to overcome to try and find a solution. host: we are speaking witharis folley, democrats call us (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 an independents (202) 748-8002. we are taking your calls now and first up is robert in raleigh, north carolina, republican line, what is your question or comment? caller: yes, when i look at the bipartisan stuff and democrats

and republicans and we don't seek much government coming together -- my question is -- is there anything -- i hope i'm not too far off topic -- anything about reparations for african americans? is anybody doing anything and how much do you know about that or how important? to me, i see a lot of good people, good party people that i feel really, really are good americans and they love everybody but the minute reparations come up, then all of a sudden, they don't seem like the same person anymore. host: we get your point, any talk about reparations as part of the appropriations process? guest: not as -- i haven't heard anything about reparations as

part of the appropriations process but i will say one congressman has a bill out and reparations have gained a lot of momentum in recent decades. even in the democratic led congress, we saw a path to hr40 which wasn't supposed to get greenlit. it formed a commission that would study reparations. it's a divided congress but i'm not sure. it's certainly worth asking. host: let's take another caller, benny in stockton, california, democratic line. caller: good morning. we cannot just address the gentleman in the last segment. host: we are talking about the week ahead in congress. that's what we want you to focus on in this segment. you can call back in open form

if you don't have a question related to congress. caller: well, i heard the gentleman talking about reparations. i agree with reparations [indiscernible] because we worked as slaves and we built this country. the gentleman in the past segment said the union built the country. unions did not build this country, slaves filled this country. host: all right, we know you just address that in your previous answer. we got a tweet from michael i bring that up because we've been hearing a lot about the freedom caucus and we know they weren't happy with the debt

ceiling bill that speaker mccarthy negotiated with the white house. do you agree with this person who tweeted that they think mccarthy is going to get with the democrats, leader jeffries to come up with spending bills that the freedom caucus will feel pressured to support or perhaps don't have the votes to stop? host: mmm, i think fold is a strong word. at the end of the day, it's not a large group. it's a group where his numbers make a difference in conference. we are expecting all of these bills coming up like thendaa, the appropriations bills. what we see in the house to unify the conference right now in the initial vote are not much like the bills we are expecting to see at the end of this caucus

-- up at the end of the session. their influence cannot make a difference and may pushing certain policies more in their direction. host: because the freedom caucus after the debt limit built were so upset with speaker mccarthy that they shut down the house floor for almost a week nothing past him and not even noncontroversial bills. do you see or is there a possibility the freedom caucus, perhaps they cannot stop by sir -- bipartisan bills passed between republicans and democrats but could they perhaps make things uncomfortable for speaker mccarthy when it comes time to vote on appropriations bills? host: they could certainly. they are able to do that but the real mission in the main message

and what they are trying to do right now in the conference is to present a show of unity. i think that's what we are seeing now. ultimately, these bills have to get past in the democratic led senate but it doesn't mean they don't still have influence. republicans credit there grow act with getting joe biden to come to the negotiation table early on. had they not, we would have ended up with a clean bill and you could argue what type of bipartisan negotiations alongside those conversations are afterwards. host: we are talking witharis folley of the hill so call us, democrats, (202) 748-8000 republicans (202) 748-8001, (202) 748-8002 for independence. you can text your comments by

using (202) 748-8003. i'm going to have to look that up as well, the uap commission. i think i know but i will look it up to confirm. host: right host: can you speak to the commission on the 26th? it seems to be gop led but i have heard adam schiff come out in support of further investigation and the senators like gillibrand and schumer have also been pushing for more disclosure. host: i think i have heard more chatter about that in both chambers.

of course, a lot of interest in the public around this i think there is definitely interest in both chambers for around this topic. i don't know much further about this. i don't know if it will get tied to the appropriations process. i haven't heard too much about it. i will be tuned in. host: peer is the nbc news article for a little bit of background.

it looks like for right now, it's part of that defense bill and not the appropriations process. thanks can quickly change. let's take another caller, matthew in watertown, new york, democratic line, what is your question or comment? caller: good morning, why can we give the military 40% raise but we can't have a decent minimum wage for people at the bottom in life? thank you. host: your response to that? guest: i think that's a question a lot of lawmakers find themselves asking particularly

among progressives. minimum wage, in conversations i've had with lawmakers about it in recent years, there has been more interest in that topic, particularly as inflation has been rising but it slowed a little bit this past month. i think it's just the politics around it. it's a difficult list in congress. host: i want to get your perspective on this. we just received a tweet. this is someone who clearly doesn't have a positive opinion but are you hearing this even

from republicans that there's been some frustration with the freedom caucus to put it lightly . can you talk about that and the fact that there is a perception among republicans that the freedom caucus, even marjorie taylor green has criticized the freedom caucus coming can you talk about that? host: the freedom caucus believes very strongly in its messaging and in its push for reducing government spending. while we ended up with a fiscal responsibility act, that was a bill that democrats and republicans would do that by more modest means. it's what the freedom caucus wants. i think that doesn't mean

anything because what they are pushing for, it's in line with what republicans in the conference certainly want to some extent. i think it's just how far these cuts are they are proposing. the frustration within the freedom caucus is that when they took back the house, the idea was that republicans would be bowing fiscal discipline and they assumed the majority and then they are seeing that their partisan bills are getting watered down as far as what they wanted. i think there is a pushin p hole within the conference and i think it's difficult for leadership to figure out how you will satisfy what moderates want who are more in the middle and what people on the more conservative right want. it's a difficult challenge. it's a small majority. host: yes, it's like a five seat majority? guest: four or five so makes all of their decisions more outside. it gives this group in general,

even if it's only 20 members coming out and issuing a warning about not supporting certain bills, that makes a difference in the congress if you are going to push a partisan bill that's aimed at unifying the conference. you're not going to get any kind of democratic support at all with these measures. host: back to the phone lines, thomas is calling from florida on the republican line. go ahead, thomas. caller: how are you doing? this is actually about commute just mentioned uap unidentified aerial phenomena or ufos great i have an engineering background and government has basically told us that we have in fact confirmed alien craft. last year, the pentagon declassified documents on 2004 video from u.s. navy pilot where they reached the conclusion that they could not explain theuap

phenomenon in that video with any current or existing human technology. that wasn't exactly's spelling out that alien craft exist but in my opinion, that's telling us that it was in fact alien craft. on a side note, as a republic, and most of us think marjorie taylor greene is a wacko so we don't take her seriously, thank you very much. host: any thoughts about ufos or what are your thoughts about marjorie taylor greene? she is still far right as far as her politics, very conservative, but she's getting a lot of attention for being an ally of speaker mccarthy. she supported this defense bill even though she said she wouldn't after mccarthy and she had a little chat. she supported him becoming speaker and supported the debt ceiling bill. what are your thoughts about the

evolution of marjorie taylor greene. host: there has definitely been a rebranding there. i think we see that with a lot of members who come into congress and they can take hard-line positions. i think it's difficult to get a lot of things done sometimes in a place like this, even if your party controls both chambers. and not being able to have the ability to kind of wiggle a little bit. it's not the most surprising thing to me. in general, it's given the nature of congress. host: we will end on that note. a again,ris folley, thank you for making your "washington journal" debut. we will take a quick break and later, how converse could conduct oversight of artificial

intelligence companies with the center for strategic and international studies greg allen. first, it is open forms a go ahead and start calling in. democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independence (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls right after the break. >> c-span campaign 2020 for coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of the candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events. to make up your own mind, campaign 2024 on the c-span

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videos of key hearings, debates and other events feature markers that died you to interesting and newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on select videos. the timeline makes it easy to get an idea of what is debated and decided washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on the points of interest on c-span. >> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this where americans can see democracy at work where citizens are truly informed and the public thrives, get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from the nation's capital to wherever you are, the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is where tomorrow -- this is what democracy looks like, c-span, powered by cable. >> "washington journal" continues. host: good morning and welcome

back to "washington journal." it's open forum, your opportunity to weigh in on any political news of the day. our first caller is in washington, d.c., will on the independent line, what are your thoughts this morning? caller: good morning and thanks for c-span. i wish somebody would tell me how trump will be able to get another security clearance after all the stuff we have had. i also want to know if he actually got a security clearance from the beginning. i will listen to your answer. host: we are not answering, just sounding off right now. let's go to another caller, otis and oklahoma city, oklahoma, democratic line. caller: yeah, i vote democratic but the young lady, i don't believe in any of them because they are all in could hoods together.

-- cup foods - cahoots together. we can literally have people in the people's house and they are running a clown show. some of the people in this comedy are like mcconnell and the rest of the crew. marjorie taylor greene, they are literally making it clear they care nothing about the constitution. out of all of that, they are able to sit there. no every human being would take that job and do it with the lies and rhetoric they are constantly spewing. they are taken care of. they have enough votes to state senators because they look at everything red and blue. host: go ahead, finish your thought. caller: i was going to say that

everyone in a position like that , they have great responsibility. i don't see how they can continue to have these hearings and committees and it's just a clown show. there should be some rules and regulations when you behave like that and they've got more degrees and the thermometer but they act like less than little kids. i will leave it right there, young lady. it's a mess up there but in the real world, when they talk about all these jobs, what they don't consider, because they haven't been in the job market for i don't know how long if ever, a lot of these jobs are going to temp agencies. host: ok, we appreciate your call. let's move to stan in grants pass, oregon, republican line. caller: good morning. i would like to go back to 1972. there was a fire in curry county.

i talked to a gentleman last month. back then, we had an airport and the boys were on that fire. it was 4000 acres in three days, it's terrible what's going on out there. thank you very much. host: beverly is up next in raleigh, north carolina, independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: yes, i have a few things i would like to mention what i've seen going on between these two parties that they won't ever come together as one people because we are a united states. i have seen where money is sent to ukraine and other places to fight wars and there are people dying at the border. nothing is done in that

situation has never been addressed. are these not people also trying to have a better life? nobody recognizes them as people? is there anything or any conscience on that? is that being discussed? another thing is -- it's just amazing to see that we are supposed to be one people and there is no one. marjorie taylor greene and ron desantis and all those, you would think they are intelligent people but they are not acting intelligent. how can they address the situation as people who are supposed to govern? host: all right, we appreciate your call this morning. let's go to brooklyn, new york, allen calling on the democrats line. caller: thanks for the chance to

speak. good morning. the question now is truth and climate. i have been following the issue for decades. i have read copies of theipcc report going back to the 1990's. many of the things we are facing now that people think our new surprises were forecast clearly. the amount of extreme variability between dry and wet periods, heavy and light rains, the increase in storm risk. none of these things were really surprises. the government had enough information to act on them for a long time. my suggestion at this point is that we debate to get as far toward adopting it come a generational rights amendment. the government is not currently functioning in a way that protects the rights of future

adult to a livable climate. the republicans have focused all their attention in dealing with the unborn, the fetus until it is delivered and then there is no thought in their legal vision for the rights of future adult who will have been borne by the will of their mothers when they reach 21 to live in a climate that is like hours were better. they have no rights under our system. a person does not include unborn future adul voters. the attempts in the antiabortion movement are only to grant some kind of personhood to a fetus while its awaiting delivery. that's not enough to protect the climate. we may need a generational rights amendment or at least to debate it enough to let the public know that there is a hole in the constitution right now as regards protecting the rights of

the future to live in a sustainable climate. host: we appreciate your call. we are an open forum, your chance to weigh in on any political topic or news of the day. democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000, republicans, (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. we will get to your calls, bernie is next in rhode island, democratic line. caller: thank you, i appreciate the opportunity to call in. just one comment i want to talk about the prior call on abortion. windows c-span say enough is enough? if i call in every enough at what time do you say we cannot take this call anymore? it's a with election deniers.

it's been for the courts and it's been resolved and yet we continue to advocate people who say the election was stolen. i would encourage c-span to just say enough. it's been decided, it's a false flag, we are not entertaining anymore. my real concern is for birth control. while abortion is the issue, it isn't. there is a large movement by the evangelical right to do away with artificial means of birth control. the catholic church just refused to appoint a liberal to this position of evaluating the right to life. he was a little bit too liberal so they denied his appointment. he also was favoring same-sex marriages and having women serve in the clergy. the roman catholic church and

the american catholic church are still divided. the american catholic church is nothing more than episcopal lights. they don't follow the roman catholic guidelines and they invent their own. this is a danger for women in the united states. eventually, they will try to get insurance companies not to cover your artificial means of birth control. the abortion issue is just the tip of the flag. everything after that is going after your personal rights to birth control. thank you so much for your time. host: let's go to our next caller, matt in valdosta, georgia on the independent line. caller: hello, good morning and thank you for taking my call. the previous caller, i'm not sure what he was talking about. i am a christian myself and i've never tried to take birth control with anybody. i was calling about illegal immigration. i think it's a big problem for america.

i think we need to step up and do something about it. we have a lot of drugs and crime flowing over from the border and a lot of problems with it due to immigration. i really want them to wake up to the problems it's causing american citizens and american working families. that's the comment i had an thank you very much, have a good day. host: up next is ron in sailors berg, pennsylvania, democrats line. caller: good morning. i just wanted to comment on a couple of items. first and foremost, i want to try to have some form of understanding pertaining to spending millions and millions of dollars and those millions have turned to billions of

dollars because we are sending money overseas and we been funding the ukrainian war. yet, here at home, they say the militant -- the military starts at home. back at home, i see everything will day, there is a lot of homelessness, a lot of programs that have been shut down. why is it that we are spending these billions of dollars? where is the accountability? there is no accountability whatsoever. by their own admission, they have stated they spent billions of dollars and they are not quite sure where this money has gone. they are not quite sure how many billions they've spent and yet here back at home, people who are from this country who are living here, they can't get services. they don't have programs. they are literally people sleeping on the ground in multiple states.

every single day, homeless, no program for wellness or mental issues, homeless shelters are not available, no programs available for people who are from the u.s., from our own country. no money for us but there is no budget. it's just an open budget, whatever they need abroad they are willing to spend this money. where's the accountability? host: all right, we got your point. we will go next to lolene, illinois, republican line. caller: hi, [indiscernible] host: tom? i think we lost time. we will go to another town in winter haven florida, independent line, what is your

thought this morning for open forum? caller: i think it's rather convenient helping out ukraine and the talk of them joining nato. it's sort of like placing the batteries in the smoke detector after the fire is started. i appreciate our foreign policy as long as we had foreign policy. the enemy of the enemy is my friend is all good and well. that's how we got in bed with iran and the shop and in bed with saddam and barak. -- and iraq. that's how we get in bed a lot of times. i just don't know how people feel about ukraine and nato. frankly, i don't have a better solution to offer. is the enemy of my enemy is the friend foreign policy in action

and we would rather grow that bigger. we would rather do that than faced the reality that ukraine waited. i don't know what's behind it. them joining nato after the fact, it doesn't sit well with me. host: all right, we appreciate your call this morning. we will pause for a minute to chat a little bit with stephanie murray of the messenger to discuss not just the week ahead in politics but particularly when it comes to the 2024 presidential election. good morning. guest: thank you so much for having me. host: thank you for coming on with us this morning. let's talk about this weekend that just past. there was a lot of campaigning going on. what were you focused on this weekend when it comes to the 2020 guest: four election? guest:republicans running for the white house in 2024 all came

to des moines, iowa over the weekend or in friday for the family leadership summit which is a big, conservative evangelical cattle call for these republican candidates to get in front of the evangelical audience and try to woo them. it was one of the first major candidate gatherings of the 2020 for primary to happen in iowa so far. they talked about all sorts of things from abortion to the war in ukraine and other conservative issues. host: i see an article you wrote going into the weekend where you talked about former president donald trump criticizing ron desantis, the governor of florida, for their six week abortion ban in florida. desantis defended it. can you tell us how this abortion issue, what faultlines we see the different republican candidates dividing or is it

trump versus everyone else? guest: it's an interesting issue to watch as the primary develops. after the fall of roe v. wade last year, republicans are still figuring out how far to take any sort of national abortion decisions they want to put forward or bring up in the republican primary. you have ron desantis who signed a six week abortion ban in florida a few months ago at the conference in iowa as the republican governor of iowa came on stage in the middle of the day and signed a six week abortion ban for her state, something that is facing legal challenges in a previous version of that law. it was knocked down in court. ron desantis was asked if he would go as far as putting a six week abortion ban in place nationally. he didn't go that far. he stepped up to the line and said he wants to sign a pro-life legislation but he didn't say he would go as far as to commit to

a six week band. other candidates there who are pretty antiabortion like former vice president mike pence, former arkansas governor asa hutchinson both praised the six week abortion band that's happening in iowa but they suggested the place to sign more national consensus might be at this six week ban. the polling bears that out and that's why they are saying it. the last poll i saw showed an overwhelming majority of american adults, something close to 75%, support abortion being allowed at six weeks but not later into a pregnancy. the support dwindles a little bit after that. former president trump did not come to the event in iowa. he faced some criticism from him to put just from his opponents are not being there but he was able to avoid being pinned down on the abortion issue the way others who were there, plotting

the ban being signed were happening and that's something we've seen with trump over the last few months. he has voiced support for new abortion assertions but has not said how far he would go or anything like that. part of that is because talking about abortion in a primaries different than how these candidates, whoever the winner is of the republican primary, will have to talk about it a general election. host: another thing that happened during this family leadership conference in iowa is that tucker carlsen was able to question a lot of these candidates. he really pushed them on some of these conservative issues. let's watch the former vice president mike pence who was interviewed by tucker carlsen. this is the portion where they talked about the attack on the capital on january 6. [video clip] >> they were american citizens and most of them didn't commit acts of violence and they were mad because they thought the election is unfair and i wonder why more time was not spent by

either party reassuring americans that our elections are real, that all votes are counted and the electronic voting machines which no one seemed to trust 10 years ago are now infallible and why mail-in voting is a good thing. why doesn't anybody try to reassure the public the mechanics of voting are legit? do you think the last election was fair? >> as i said an january 6 in my communications to the congress and i've said many times since, there were irregularities in the 2020 election, there is no question. there were about half a dozen states that changed the rules of elections in the name of covid. that undermined public confidence in the outcome of our elections. at the end of the day, we brought more than 60 lawsuits in states engaged in recount. when states ultimately certified and courts upheld those changes

in virtually every instance, and ultimately, we were able to determine that the changes, there is no evidence the changes will change the outcome of the election in any way, my duty was clear that day. candidly, as i've said before, president trump words that they were reckless. i believe whatever his intentions in that moment endangered me and my family and everyone at the capitol that day. i believe history will hold him accountable for that. just as the law will hold everyone that engage in active violence. host: how was vice president pence, how was that received an overall, there was a lot of discussion about tucker carlsen and how he represents the

ultraconservative base in ways that left the candidates trying to figure out ways to answer his questions without having answers that could hurt them in the long run? can you talk a little bit about that. guest: this is the challenge for republicans running against former president donald trump. he is somebody who has a lot of support in the base. his base in the party has not left him from the attack on the capital in to his multiple indictments. i think they are in this situation where they are trying to run against him and draw contrast without alienating his base and that's what you saw there with former vice president mike pence suggesting there were irregularities in the 2020 election, something that others have widespread evidence to back up. it's a challenge to not alienate the base and not insult trump.

that has been their challenge and i think the other challenge that happened in iowa friday was that tucker carlsen representing this very conservative piece of the party, he was often getting more applause than the actual candidates were on stage. asa hutchinson was asked about this after his segment with tucker carlsen that got pretty tense over things like transgender, firming care for kids or the covid vaccine. his quote to reporters was sometimes you get applause and sometimes you don't. i was on stage to try to bring some people over to me that's what i hope i did. but this is the challenge especially when former president trump was not at the event and he says he may not be on the debate stage in august next month. we are kind of waiting to see these candidates draw bigger contrast to the former president especially when he is far and away the front runner in

national polls in this primary. it's a difficult needle to thread and i think we've seen almost all of the candidates have challenges with that. host: before i let you go, one last question, the group no labels which is considering supporting a third-party candidate, if trump and biden are there party nominees, there is an event later today featuring west virginia senator joe manchin who we know is a democrat. can you tell us a little about what you know about what will happen today and is it fueling speculation that joe manchin might be this no labels candidate in the fall? guest: joe manchin will appear in new hatcher later today and has democrats really worried. the concern is that if joe manchin mounted a third-party run for president, he would act as a spoiler or president joe biden and hand the victory to trump or whoever the republican

nominee is. that's far down the road and far down the line but it appears that new hampshire is certainly stoking that expectation. joe manchin is not committed to what he will do in 2024 in any regard. the place he is appearing in new hampshire is somewhere where presidential candidates go. he's going to the new hampshire institute of politics and that's kind of the bread-and-butter spot where you go and talk to people in new hampshire if you are thinking about running for president. certainly, it's no coincidence he's going there. it's interesting the speculation that democrats will be watching closely. host: thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: my pleasure, thanks for having me. host: again, that's stephanie murray, the political reporter at the messenger. we are back into open forum, your chance to weigh in on any news of the day or political topic. continue to call us, democrats,

(202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, an independents (202) 748-8002. we are ready to take more of your calls starting with elaine in st. louis, missouri, democrats line. caller: thank you so much. i must say that c-span is a wonderful organization to disseminate all of this information. i really called -- i agree with many of the callers that i enjoy listening to others. i really called to shout about the wonderful conference i attended this weekend, boots and remedies. it's a fantastic organization, the practice project.

praxis and they brought regular people together, making their way to the conference with transportation and people from brazil that embraced all of these grassroots organizations and helping them understand their purpose and also the need to refresh themselves to empower themselves to continue to fight the good fight, to stand up to travel the stony road. they gave us remedies, not they gave us, they helped us give ourselves remedies. host: all right, we appreciate

your call with us this morning. let's go to stockton, california now, albert on the independent line. caller: good morning, can you hear me? host: we can hear you, go ahead. caller: i appreciate the gentleman who is talking a while back. the accountability of the border, i just don't see how we don't have the accountability. we look at the pictures and see the trash and the pollution. i have it right here where i live in stockton. i sit near a creek where i fish out of. our waterways, i know they come in from the port of stockton. that's the problem they had another country so i don't see -- i understand ukraine may hear the gentle man what he was saying. we deftly need to take care of america first and i've said it before that we don't look like

week. i will leave it with this -- i am albert lopez and eyman an american hispanic and immediate amnesty for hispanics 100 miles either side of the border so they don't have to hide in chasing the american dream. that's all we are chasing. build the wall and stop the fentanyl. host: all right. let's go to michigan now, chris, democratic line. caller: happy monday. i advise every american to watch a program i saw last week. it is called contraband. it shows through the border crossings through laredo, mckellen and brownsville. i was shocked by the number of

ammunition coming in to mexico from the united states. the cartel are buying ammunition from the americans, and dumb americans -- probably fentanyl -- are sending ammunition to mexico. and, i just found that out. i do not know if people are aware of that. it was beyond me. also, when it comes to climate change, the democrats -- we have been talking about this for 30 years. everybody joked about al gore. we have talked about it for years and years and years. if people do not think china is doing their job on it, they are

crazy. i would advise them to watch xi jinping tv coming out of beijing. they are building on the roofs with skyscrapers with ron. they closed the river for 10 years for a major cleanup. host: chris, i am going to have to stop you there. we got your point on climate change. we are in open forum. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. next up is james in boca raton, florida, independent line. caller: yeah, how you doing? can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: you are one of my favorite hosts. i like the three ladies.

they are my favorite. but, what i want to talk about our three things. number one, why doesn't c-span start at 6:00? i think it would be nice to start at 6:00. is there a reason you start at 7:00? do you know the answer to that? host: no, i am not. i am sure the bosses are watching and will take it under advisement. caller: the reason i say 6:00 is, when the house comes in earlier, you only have a two hour show. i would like to see a minimum of three hours. point number two, the cost of inflation. inflation. what i mean is, the cost of everything is expensive. the cost of groceries are expensive. the cost of housing is expensive. the cost of health care is expensive.

the cost of going to college is expensive. nothing is cheap. where did they say the cost of inflation would down? i do not see it. tell me where it went down. number three. donald trump will never get elected. never get elected. my kids will never get elected. we need someone in the middle. none of these extreme, extreme abortion ban. where do they get off on this abortion, six-week man? -- six -week ban? forget about it. host: james brought up inflation. i want to read a portion from an article in today's wall street journal. this is the business and finance section of the wall street journal. it says, traders position for soft landing, cooling off of

inflation eases fears that fed will cause recession. i will read a little bit about it. it says, wall street is more convinced than ever that inflation is subsiding. that is giving investors hope that the federal reserve might be able to pull off what once seemed impossible, containing pricing pressures without tipping the economy into recession. the economic data that came out this past week could hardly have been better. the consumer price index, which tracks prices for everything from used cars to groceries, rose in june at the slowest year-over-year pace in more than two years. inflation in wholesale prices cooled even more. an index measuring the prices in june by warehouses, factories, farms and energy producers rose at its lowest pace since august

2020. that is this morning's wall street journal on cooling-off inflation. again, we are in open forum. we want to hear from you. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are going to the republican line next. donna in fort worth, texas. caller: hello, can you hear me? host: we can hear you, go ahead. caller: thank you. first. nobody remembers that women used to use the rhythm method to keep from getting pregnant. they might want to go back to that. i am nearly 70. i graduated in 1971. i was against abortion even when it first came about.

i used the rhythm method and have only been pregnant one time. that time, i planned it with rhythm method. another thing, i do not think president trump should be reelected. i think everybody needs to really think about what happened january 6. i do not know whose fault it was. everybody pointing fingers at everybody else. but, do you really want to take a chance on that happening again? i am talking to fellow republicans now. do you really want to see that happen again? if you want to stop all the fighting between our two parties, something is going to have to recognize the fact that is the only way is going to stop. and, i do not want to see biden in the white house again.

everything is too expensive. it went up the day he took the inauguration. i was at the grocery store and the riots started. i come home to that and the mess and the prices have gone up overnight now, please, think long and hard about who you choose to represent. please -- just think. if you want to stop the infighting, you have got to pick another candidate. host: all right, donna. i appreciate your call this morning. let's go to missouri now, dave on the independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning, dave. caller: since it is open forum, i just want to say it is time for a new fed. we will probably get the democrats in this white house bickering and battering

backwards and forward. i thought the people were the ones to make the decisions. so, all i am saying, it is time to get rid of the republicans and the democrats. it is time for a new ticket. it is time for a new ticket. host: chester is up next in racing, wisconsin, democratic line. caller: yes, good morning. i was wondering, since the joe manchin might run on that new party ticket, what is a general thought of the harm to be done to the democratic ticket by cornell west as a potential presidential candidate from my party, the green party? thank you. host: all right, chester. next caller is russell, marysville, pennsylvania. republican line.

caller: yes, good morning miss. i have an opinion about mike pence. and, neglecting his constitutional duty. when he had assignment by six congressmen and one senator, sitting senator -- not to send the electoral votes back to the states, did he -- i am just wondering, did he neglect his constitutional duty by not sending the electoral votes back? i contacted a lawyer. the lawyer said i might have something there, because i wanted to sue mike pence because he did not do his duty. in my opinion, if anybody stole the 2020 election from donald trump, it was mike pence. inc. you very much and have a nice day -- thank you very much

and have a nice day. host: we have been receiving a couple calls in open form about the 2024 presidential election. this is this morning's new york times, an overview of some of the campaign reports that came in over the weekend. candidates for federal office had a deadline of saturday to report their fundraising from april, may and june. here is the article. it says, as a former financial picture of the 2020 four presidential race emerge with saturday's campaign filing deadline, several appeared to lurk below the surface for governor ron desantis of florida. despite a strong overall fundraising total of $20 million, mr. desantis is spending hand over fist in his dependence on large donors, just a lack of grassroots support. former president trump's

campaign reported $17.7 million in fundraising, nearly all of which was transferred from another committee that will not report its donors until later this month. in the meantime, president biden , his joint fundraising committee and the democratic national committee, raised almost as much money as all of the republican candidates for president combined. so, that is a brief overview in the new york times of these candidates for president and their fundraising totals for the second quarter. we are in open forum. we are going to go back to the phone lines to colby, massachusetts. david on the independent line. caller: yeah, good try. it is jacoby. host: thank you. caller: anyway. i am a gay conservative.

i am an independent. it bothers me, totally, to see how a lot of democrats -- mostly democrats -- and women and gay people are for abortion. don't they realize, number one, that when you have an abortion, you are killing a percentage of future gay people? and, future women? i have trouble with the democrats also always having a problem with somebody gets shot in the street, somebody gets murdered -- well, we murder people every day through abortion. how can you respect life when you do not respect life at its most precious moments? that is just my take on it. being a gay person, i say, how many gay people will not be born because somebody has decided to abort a child? host: all right. got your point. pat is next in patrick you, new

york, independent line. caller: good morning. it is pat chuck -- pat shock. i wanted to bring up a concept. since our constitution was written, we have had a culture and america that was anti-totalitarian, anti-monarch. we have had a two-party system and it is concentrated -- it has concentrated its efforts on financial powers in this country that have grown over the last two centuries. the leader in industrialization, putting everyone in the family to work, even children aged six at one time during the 1800s. today, we have the same thing where everybody has to work and bring in a salary just to maintain a home. we lead -- lead the world in pollution and emissions. we have problems in our nation win and comes to so many social

issues. slavery existed after the constitution was conceived. all these problems we have and the problems culminating right now with our foreign policy, our domestic policies -- i am wondering, we do not need some kind of totalitarian power, not from either party because the parties are what brought us to where we are. but, some kind of force that would concentrate on communal interests, rather than singular interests or power interests or groups. it needs to be somehow forced. the changes that are required are desperately required right now in the face about all -- of all our problems. is this two-party system, which is one more than the monarchal and totalitarian system, good for us when it has polarized the

hell out of this country and leads us to conflict but nothing progresses? that is my point. host: that is going to do it for us for open forum. later on today, national securities and exchange commission chair gary gensler will be speaking on securities regulation as it relates to the future on artificial intelligence. that speech from the national press club will be live on c-span beginning at 1:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app or online at c-span.org. that is today at 1:00 p.m. we are going to take a break in, the center for strategic and international studies greg allen join us to discuss concerns over the rise of artificial intelligence and if technology needs oversight, after the break. ♪

♪ >> in 1970, twa slate -- flown to the jordanian desert. a historian at the time, 12 years old, was on that plane along with her sister catherine who was 13. a group called the popular runt for the liberation of palestine was behind the hijacking. martha, who teaches 19th century history at new york university four years only had fuzzy memories of those six days and nights in the desert as a hostage. in the past couple of years,

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♪ >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with a day's biggest immense with live streams and floor proceedings in humans from the u.s. congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span's tv networks and the span radio, plus a variety of podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. download it for free today. c-span now, your front row seat to washington. anytime, anywhere. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: good morning. welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined now by greg allen, the director of the 11 he center

for ai and advanced technologies, which is housed at the center for strategic and international studies. good morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: thank you for joining us. let's start there. what is the wood wanting center and how is it funded? guest: we are a scholarly institution, we produce research on public policy topics. our primary sponsor is remiss run wanting which is a philanthropist and an indian american who started a variety of technology companies in silicon valley. now, he is interested in giving back to the country that brought him and welcomed him and we are doing research on ai pic issues. host: you previously worked on ai issues at the department of defense. what kind of work did you do there? guest: i was the director of strategy and policy at the department of defense joint artificial intelligence center. this was a central policy and

strategic planning efforts for the entire department of defense when it comes to ai issues. i was at the dod from 2019 2022. this is in the middle of a lot of the department of defense's ai efforts. host: we are going to drill down a lot of this through the course of our conversation. broadly, what has your experience taught you, or what do you think are the kind of decisions that perhaps congress needs to face or is facing now when it comes to artificial intelligence? guest: there is too big buckets of issues that congress is thinking about when it comes to artificial intelligence right now. the first is artificial intelligence and its national security implications. this is the same topic that senate majority leader chuck schumer recently organized a hearing around last week and follows on the work of the national security commission for artificial intelligence, a

congressionally chartered commission that ran for multiple years. this is thinking about ai potentially use cases in national security application, competition with other countries such as china and russia and thinking about traditional national security topics. the second more recent priority locus is around the regulation of ai. other regions, other countries such as the european union, have been working on their draft ai regulations for several years now. but in the past few months, there has been a major effort on capitol hill led by senate majority leader chuck schumer to dig through what needs to be done from a u.s. perspective on ai regulation. host: we are going to drill down more on this. we are talking with greg allen at the center for ai and advanced technology. you can start calling and if you have questions about artificial intelligence, or if you want to weigh in on this topic. we want to hear from you.

start calling you now. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text message, (202) 748-8003. we will get to them in a moment. i want to bring up -- there is this article, this one is a newsweek article. there was a lot of coverage because vice president harris last week was struggling to define artificial intelligence. this is newsweek. it says, footage of vice president harris attempting to explain artificial intelligence on wednesday have gone viral online with one critic saying it sounded like "she had a report due on ai but absolutely did not read the book."

why is it so hard for people -- or, is it hard to describe, is it because people are still struggling to get her hands around what it is? can you explain the challenges, and can you tell us what ai is? guest: i think bank president harris is reddick's should cut her slack. the leading researchers in this field often struggle to define what artificial intelligence is. part of the reason is the definition keep changing. in academic terms, artificial intelligence is often defined as a system that can normally perform a function that normally requires human intelligence. that is a moving target, because what normally requires human intelligence has to adapt to the reality of technological progress and widespread adoption. for example, in the 1980's, tax preparation software was very successfully architect as an ai

accountant. nobody that and i, even in the most advanced research fields. my gosh, software that can do your taxes. it is ai. today, programs like turbotax are just routine software, they no longer are viewed as artificial intelligence. this is what i mean by a moving target. it hinges upon a subfield of the umbrella term, artificial intelligence. that is machine learning. the difference between machine learning and traditional software is that whereas with a traditional computer software system, every line of computer code is typed out by human hands. the intelligence of that system represents what humans know they have programmed into these computer rules. sheena learning systems are different. they generate their own rules based on what the system has learned from a training data set. it is the widespread application of machine learning that has led

to these performance breakthroughs. host: what are some of the risks and benefits -- particularly of this new machine learning technology? guest: one of the benefits is that it is good at things that traditional software is not necessarily good at. a lot of very smart people were working on facial recognition technology in the 1980's and 1990's. for all their brilliance and the money that they threw at the problem, they did not have a ton of great results to show for their efforts. in the modern era, now tackling that facial recognition problem through a machine learning approach, the performance of these systems have gone through the roof. that is some of the benefits. for applications where traditional software is not necessarily good, machine earning software can have much higher performance. in terms of the wrist, one of the biggest risks is that organizations in government, in business, in civil society have a lot of learned understanding

for how traditional software systems break. but, machine learning systems at the same time they have the possibility of enhanced performance, require different factors for success. they break in weird and unfamiliar ways. if you are thinking about a commercial airliner, there is a lot of regulation that already applies for an aircraft autopilot and what it means for there to be saved software for an aircraft autopilot. for machine learning, there is a lot less muscle memory and organizational capacity in institutions like the faa for how to use mature -- machine learning system safely. that is why some of the most widespread applications of machine learning today are in stuff like your netflix recommendation engine, what the next movie i should watch given i just like the other movie. these are low stakes applications. if you get them wrong, nobody is going to get hurt. host: we are going to get to the

phone lines. first, i want to ask a question reived on twitter. she says, does your guest know how congress is addressing intellectual property rights with ai? with the -- would the ai own the rights, the creator of that specific ai i.e. chatgpt or the individual who gave the ai a prompt for it to create something? guest: this is an issue that is already addressed by some exist -- extent by existing law. there was one individual who tried to get his ai system, which has been used to generate engineering diagrams and tried to file a patent with the ai system as the inventor. the courts ruled this was not allowed, patents have to have human authorship in order to be legally enforceable and valid. other aspects of intellectual property rights remain unaddressed and it is possible

that congress could get involved. for example, senate majority leader chuck schumer, when i hosted him at csis last month, he named intellectual property rights as one of the issues that he wanted congress to evaluate. the key is that the congress once a productive dynamic economy. that means that creators need to be compensated for their work, so they are incentivized to keep on creating. looking at what is the right balance when it comes to artificial intelligence is something i would expect congress to address. host: let's go to the phone lines. again, democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. first up, robert in washington, d.c. on the independent line. what is your question or comment? caller: i would like to make a comment. thank you for taking my call.

i am a former employee of the united states air force. i used to work in albuquerque, new mexico at the air force base. the shareholders of the platoon at headquarters of the united states air force -- this has been ai -- i was there in albuquerque. at the time, i was working around -- they were doing a lot of experiment on ai and i worked around the church, laid by seymour craig. i worked around during the first -- at that time, they were making a lot of different things

. i did not know what was going on. the ai, as long as you sent a real problem -- military drones stated that at one point in time that some base -- they made a lot of ai robots. robots, they rotate. -- they wrote it. [indiscernible] when the ai robots began to realize that they were being enslaved, they said, oh no. host: we got your point. let's stop it here and go to greg. can you talk -- there is a lot of concern about robots. can you talk to some of the points raised? guest: i think there is a few

topics that i heard raised in the question. first is around the progress of artificial intelligence and how many of these concerns actually go back decades. president biden in recent remarks expressed concern about ai "overtaking human intelligence jericho president biden in 2023 is not the first person to raise these issues. the father of modern computing technology was wrestling with similar issues when they were thinking, what is the proper role of the machine, the proper role of a human? in ensuing decades, we have made an astonishing amount of progress in the computer sector. the caller mentioned the crazed supercomputers of the 1980's. the supercomputer of 1986 was the most danced computer on

earth, it cost hundreds of millions of dollars. your iphone today is literally hundreds of times more powerful than that supercomputer of 1986. the pace of progress shows absolutely no signs of stopping. chatgpt, which was widely used and exciting new capability in ai when it came out in october 2022, many of the leading lights of ai research, folks like jeff hinton, they thought a capability as similar as someone embodied in chatgpt was decades away and it happened last year. host: wow. ok. next caller, larry, southport, north carolina, independent. caller: yes, ma'am. i have a question about the ai and why should the taxpayers

fund the programs where other individuals will get rich off of and we will not receive anything in return? thank you. host: is that a concern you are hearing as well, greg? guest: sure. i think taxpayer research does go towards the theater bar -- field of artificial intelligence in the same way taxpayer research goes to medical research or aviation engineering research at nasa. i think the reality is, the benefits of artificial intelligence are going to be widespread. one example is the use of artificial intelligence in -- drug discovery. some exciting prospects or to come up with new pharmaceutical drugs and accelerating the pace of pharmaceutical research. these are the government is interested in undoing.

it makes sense they are excited and sharing the benefits of ai with society. host: we are talking with greg allen of the 118 -- center for technology. if you have a question about artificial intelligence, call us. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. before we go back to the phone lines, there is a couple of questions on twitter. bill asks, what is being done to regulate independently targeting drones and other ai weapons development? guest: sure. this is an issue i worked on when i was at the department of defense. the relevant department of on this topic, which is usually referred to as the a thomas weapon issue, which -- autonomous weapons issue defines

and a thomas weapon as one that can independently select and engage targets without the need for further human intervention once activated. these systems have existed in the u.s. military and dozens of militaries around the world for many gates. for example, the patriot missile defense system being used by ukrainian armed forces to defend themselves against russian missile attacks. that has a human operated mode, a human supervised mode and a fully a thomas mode. -- a tom ms -- autonomous mode. it is not possible for an individual human operator to work at the machine speeds required. certain types of weapons such as this will defense systems have

been around for decades. what is the more concerning issue is the use of ai enabled, lethal, offensive a thomas --- autonomous weapons. we have not seen in modern warfare, but unfortunately, it appears russia is preparing to cross that threshold if they have not already done so in the war in ukraine. my name russian -- many russian weapon manufacturers are already advertising their development and testing in eastern ukraine of ai enabled offensive, lethal autonomous weapons. the dod has its policy, which is dod d's 3000. 09. they are fairly comfortable with this policy, which was updated last year.

the real topic is more international. many other countries, including u.s. allies, do not get to have other policies on this topic. host: the next caller is allen in oregon, republican line. caller: yes, this artificial intelligence is scary and bad. as well as education, there is a movie called -- they show in the future, there was a flat screen. the flat screen had artificial intelligence that was teaching kids. i think it would be good. artificial intelligence could work wendy 47. -- could work 24/7. they could be in school any time. [indiscernible]

it would teach the kids reading, writing -- host: he brings up artificial intelligence in education. i want to add on the other side. i ham sure you --i am sure you are worried about teachers, chatgpt being used to cut corners. talk about artificial intelligence in education, please. guest: there is no doubt artificial intelligence technology has significant potential for education. the most recent breakthroughs in artificial intelligence technology around large language models systems like those embodied in chatgpt are capable of doing things that ai could not do two years ago, composing longform essays on complicated, academic topics.

of course, there is concern teachers and professors have. there have been cases this has happened of students cheating by having ai write the essay and turning it in as if they have written it themselves. this is a familiar concern in education. in the 1970's, there was an enormous debate around the use of calculators in education. and whether or not students were properly learning addition, subtraction, multiplication. ultimately, teachers around the country and school boards around the country had to find a new balance for what is the right way to use calculators as a tool of education and not a substitute for human learning. i think everyone would agree we found the right balance when it comes to calculators. when it comes to large language models, this is still an important series of debates. if the ai writes the essay, what has the student learned? this is something that is not

yet a solid question. host: i want to caution our colors. we do not want to use inappropriate language. we are not going to be able to allow that on the program. david, north attleboro, massachusetts, independent line. what is your question or comment? caller: yes, good morning. i would just like to ask the guest. in the summer of 2019, the various journalists were getting thrown out of china. i never hear a certain list of who got thrown out. i just assume this guest is qualified to answer the question. i figure the whole u.s. would be curious on -- no one else talks

about how all the journalists got thrown out of china. that is all. host: any thoughts, greg? guest: i think the basic issue is that china's government is increasingly authoritarian and repressive in every dimension. that is not just true in the area of journalism, but even academic exchanges are often being restricted right now. that makes it harder to understand what china is up to in fields of ai. in reality, the two leading countries on earth, at least when it comes to the commercial adoption of ai in the military development of ai, are the united states and china. ensuring that we have access and information to what is going on in china is radical from not just an intelligence community perspective, but businesses need

to do due diligence on their customers, suppliers, on their partners. china's government is making it harder at the same time they are setting up an extraordinary ai enabled surveillance network throughout the country. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. on the ai, i got mixed feelings. ai seems to do a great job in the medical world and trying to make things better for the people that are really sick and have issues. on the other end, it can do disastrous things. it can turn the world upside down. it can take my ace and put it on tv and -- my face and put it on tv and make me say what they want to say.

that is not good for ai. that is where i think we need a good balance in ai. unless ai is operated properly, i think it can be fantastic for everyone in the world. guest: the way the caller framed it is right. there are two sides to the ai issue. there are potential benefits and very significant risks that we are facing. this is not an unfamiliar concern. think about the internet or computer. computer has been a source of economic growth and flourishing in american culture. it is the mechanism by which cyber attacks take place. it is a tool and weapon. the same is true of artificial intelligence technology, which can be used for good and ill. that is why senate majority leader chuck schumer and his bipartisan group of four senators are working on what is called the base innovation dacia

-- face innovation framework, which is looking to accelerate the adoption of ai and ensure the risk of the potential misuse of ar are effectively regulated and addressed. host: you mentioned senator chuck schumer. let's look after senators received their first briefing on ai, majority leader schumer expressed concern about how to conduct oversight of the technology. here is a portion of his remarks from last tuesday. [video clip] >> it shows how difficult the task is, but how necessary it is for congress to be involved. it is clear the private sector is making advances, but the private sector cannot do it alone. the combination of our government and congress working with the private sector to make sure we innovate way ahead of anybody else, but at the same time, there are safe art so that

innovation does not get out of control or be used for negative purposes is very real. our intelligence and defense agencies care deeply about this. they are investing a lot of time and resources, but they admit they have to work with us, with congress, to get things we need done. eye-opening, it is incredible. i have studied this issue, but this briefing shows the depths, the complicity, -- complexity, the necessity of getting this done. it is going to be one of the hardest tasks congress has ever faced, but one of the most important. we cannot run away from it. host: that was senate leader chuck schumer. he mentioned the complexity. what are some challenges congress might face as they tried to come up with regulations, particularly for machine learning artificial

intelligence? guest: the real thing that is challenging is, there is a tough place in drawing boundaries for where you are regulating. think about the use of computer software, or electricity. these are technologies that in effect, almost every segment of the american economy and society, yes -- there are computers in your phone or on your desk top or in a data center, but also in airplanes, cars, machinery, everywhere else. when you set out saying you are interested in regulating ai, you have to ask yourself what part of the ai equation are you regulating, which is going to touch just about every segment of the american economy. there is the challenge of striking the right balance between risk and innovation. ai makes additional technological progress. it could also bring about new,

economic growth, new research breakthroughs in yields like medicine or engineering. these are attractive opportunities. if you try and regulate artificial intelligence right now, you might be closing off some of those opportunities if you strike the wrong balance between mitigating risk and adopting the message. the final thing i would say is how fast the technology is moving. the legislative progress -- process in congress is not traditionally known as a supersonic jet when it comes to getting things done quickly. artificial intelligence technology, even leading researchers in this field, are constantly finding themselves surprised by breakthroughs they thought a decade away happening in six months. congress might undertake this ai regulatory process, be proud of itself for getting something down -- done in six months and a

year later find the ai technology now looks different in the face of additional research progress. host: if you could have the ear of chuck schumer, what would you tell him congress must do now? guest: i think chuck schumer, with his safe innovation framework, is on a great track. he is recognizing the need for ai safety to be a focus of congresses time and attention. innovation as senator schumer said is the north of this story and entering the american economy can continue to harness the benefit of ai technology and innovation is something he is not going to sacrifice in that area. in terms of what is the most topic, setting the boundaries of what types of ai and what circumstances are going to be subject to new regulation versus old regulation. it does not need to be new

regulation in all cases. if you are going to use ai systems in a commercial airplane, the federal aviation administration has regulations supplied for that. if you are going to use ai to make a car autonomous, there are regulations that apply. setting the boundaries of what senator schumer and his bipartisan colleagues want to focus on is one of the toughest questions to answer. host: let's go back to the phone lines. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. we are on the independent line now. paul is calling from long island, new york. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i would like to play devils advocate -- is it ok to talk? host: go ahead. caller: i am sorry, i am watching the tv. it is confusing.

host: turn the tv down and keep going. caller: i would like to play devils advocate and come at this from an ignorant standpoint. it is just a machine. it can be turned off, pulled the plug out to shut it down. i do not see what the problem is. host: he is playing devils advocate. is that an accurate way to approach ai, you can just unplug it? guest: i think you can just unplug it if you have built your system to be compatible with just unplugging it. imagine you have an aircraft system. if you turn off the computers of a modern jet airliner, you can switch the autopilot off but only if you have humans in the cockpit ready to take over and ensure the safe operation of the aircraft. nuclear power plant's cannot necessarily just be shut off. they have to undergo the safe shutdown procedures.

if we are building ai into the modern economy, imagine trying to turn the internet off. yes, theoretically, you could shut down all the data centers across the country simultaneously. that would bring about an economic catastrophe, not to mention the other benefits beyond the economic ones. the systems that become reliant upon the internet are so reliant on the internet that just turning it off is not necessarily the easiest thing to do in the world. when you are thinking about artificial intelligence as a single box that sits on your desk, just turn it off, i see what you mean. think about artificial intelligence as an entire category of technology, seated throughout all of society and one in which we might be putting critical systems in such a way they are reliant upon ai. these are the scenarios we are trying to deal with. host: let's take another call.

steve in nashville, tennessee, independent line. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have worked in the i.t. industry, mostly maintenance of systems. i left in 2002 to do health care. i was an assistant programmer. the people who looked over our shoulders were in security department, which were primarily -- it comes back to the topic of congressional oversight and regulation. i am questioning if congress -- the people most qualified to make these decisions. to be a programmer, you had access to all data on the systems and the people who looked over our shoulder to regulate us did not know that much about i.t.. we could pretty much do anything

we wanted. just through that question out there, maybe there is a payout -- a better way of regulating oversight in this industry? guest: i think what congress would do is certainly not right technical standards. you are right, congress is in no position to be designing technical schematics. what they can do, if they can set up liability frameworks. for example, if you think about the automotive industry, certain types of car crashes can require the car manufacturer to make payments to those who were hurt by the car crash if they sold a system that is defective or embodies neglect to ring the manufacturing process. they can be liable for the consequences of that accident. a liability regime around ai technology is the sort of thing

congress could do without necessarily needing to understand the technical specifics. another thing that congress can do, they can take technical standards that are developed elsewhere, whether that be national institute of standards and technology or the international standards organization or the oecd. they can state those regulations are mandatory in certain circumstances. the final thing they can do is give guidance and legal requirements to existing, regulatory agencies, whether the food and drug administration, the federal aviation administration, the national highway transportation safety administration -- these big bureaucracies are supposed to have staff on hand that do have an understanding of these technical issues. there absolutely is a role for congress to play. even the major ai companies acknowledge that congress absolutely has a role to play.

host: this is a tweet from robert in douglas, it gets to a big concern we are hearing. he writes, artificial intelligence in self is not the actual danger. the real danger is forthcoming, if artificial intelligence advances enough to become artificial consciousness. we are talking about the machine learning. is that a possibility, and what are your thoughts about if that creates a risk? guest: i would say that artificial consciousness is a line that different people have defined in different ways. i am not entirely sure where the question asked her is -- asker is asking the question. i would say the dangers does not necessarily start at the point of consciousness. nuclear weapons are not conscious, but monstrously dangerous. the real question is not necessarily, can ai feel or does

it identify as a person, it is, what can it do? what can it do in the economy, the military, the intelligence community? the capabilities of artificial intelligence defined both the potential benefits and potential risks. i am not sure that consciousness is the relevant point at which to draw the line for when the government needs to start thinking hard about ai technology. host: one more caller. lucius, dora, alabama. independent line. lucius, are you with us? caller: yes. host: go ahead. caller: my question is more -- do we have laws about -- ? host: we are talking about artificial intelligence. do you have a question about that? caller: no, i have a question

about running the country. i -- host: let's get back on artificial intelligence. this is this morning's washington post. the front page of the washington post has an article. it says, lawsuits escalate ai bear use debate. we will end on this note. i will ask about, and increasingly vocal group of artists and filmmakers are arguing artificial intelligence tools like chatbot, chatgpt were illegally trained on their work without permission or compensation, posting a legal threat to the company's pushing tech to millions in the world. we heard about the actors and their concerns. as we wrap up, artificial intelligence in the creative industry. guest: i think this is a major concern of many different creative industries.

i think they are thinking about standards that have applied in the past two human reuse of other work. for example, many viewers may remember the obama 2008 residential campaign's hope poster. it was designed by an artist named shepard fairy, it used his artistic technique but was based on a photo taken by a for -- by a professional photographer. that photographer won a lawsuit against shepard fairy, saying he used the original photo without fair compensation even though that photo had been transformed into his art style. these issues are familiar with human artistry. it is natural they are coming up again with ai artistry. host: we will leave it there. gregll from the center for ai and advanced technologies at the center for strategic and international studies. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having me. host: that will do it for

today's "washington journal." later today, there will be an event with security and exchange commission chair gary gensler, who will be speaking about securities regulation as it relates to the future of artificial intelligence. that is live on c-span, c-span now, our free mobile video app and online. at c-span.org at 1:00 p.m. today. "washington journal" will be back tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] >> coming up today, the u.s. house gavels in that new eastern with four bills on the