♪ host: good morning, it's friday, july 21. this week, c-span covered several congressional hearings inc. letting robert kennedy

junior on social media and alleged censorship, irs whistleblowers on hunter biden and the senate hearing advancing a supreme court code of ethics bill. there was also news of the justice department's letter to donald trump, notifying him he is the target of an investigation into election fraud. this first hour, we want to know what you thought was the top news story of the week. democrats can call (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001 and independents (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003 and be sure to send your first name and city and state and we are on social media , facebook and twitter. welcome to today's "washington journal." we will start with the hearing of rfk junior and here is a

portion of his opening statement from yesterday. [video clip] >> it's antithetical to our party, it was appalling to my father, my uncle and harry truman and is the basis for democracy, it sets us apart from all the previous forms of government area we need to be able to talk in the first amendment was not written for easy speech. it was written for the speech that nobody likes you for. i was censored, not just by the democratic administration but by the trump administration. i was the first person censored by the. i was censored two days after the biden administration came into office. by the way, they had to invent a new word called mall information to censor people like me.

there is no misinformation on my end. everything i put on that account was cited and sourced. nobody has ever pointed to a single piece of misinformation i published. i was removed for something they call mal information which is true but it's inconvenient to the government. they don't want people to hear it. that's antithetical to the dish to our country. after i announced my presidency, it became more difficult for people to censor me. so now i am subject to this new form of censorship which is called targeted propaganda where people apply pejorative's like anti-vax, i've never been anti-vax and everybody probably believes i have been and that's the prevailing narrative. antisemitism, racism, these are

the most appalling disgusting pejoratives and they are applied to me to silence me. host: that was rfk junior at a hearing yesterday and he is running for president and we want to know what your top news story of the week is in the numbers are on your screen. take a look at this article from the " washington post."

that hours long hearing is on our website at c-span.org if you'd like to see the whole thing. here is debbie wasserman schultz who was questioning rfk junior about his recent covid vaccination comments. [video clip] >> last week, you floated a baseless conspiracy theory that the vaccine targeted black people. your bizarre unproven claim echoes the same historic slander of raising -- of targeting other groups. you do see that, yes or no?

>> you are stating >> i quoted what you said earlier and directly what you said. >> i was describing an nih funded study -- >> you didn't cite anything. >> i was citing an nih funded study -- >> reclaiming my time. the time is mine, please answer the question. >> allow me to answer my question. >> mr. chairman, i like about 10 seconds back. >> i'd like 15 seconds back. you did not cite any study like you're setting your now during that conversation. reference no study at all and you simply labeled jews in chinese people as a race you also said somehow they managed

to avoid a deadly illness that's targets other groups for death. you don't see that? you are trying to rewrite this speech. a few months ago, you compared covid public health policies to murderous tactics of nazi germany. you said they had more freedom in nazi germany than with covid. you were you'd -- do you reject this harmful comparison? >> what you are saying is alive. >> you said it. >> no, i did not. i never, ever -- >> i reclaim my time in discussing covid public health measures and you made light of jewish sessions. do you think it was easier for jewish people to escape systematic slaughter of nazis? >> absolutely not. >> good. host: that was the exchange from

yesterday. you can see that fully hearing on our website and we are taking your calls this morning on your top news stories of the week and we will start with washington, d.c. independent. caller: good morning. i think the most important telling story of the week was tempora bill holding up military appointments. it's the weaponization of the military and it's very telling. i fully believe that the january 6 issue will be back and when you look at it and may be a concerted effort to destabilize the government and their military [indiscernible]

host: let me ask you about military promotions. people stay in their positions of those positions are not empty. caller: except it wouldn't be an issue if they weren't pressing for it. host: if they weren't what? caller: if they weren't pressing for it. host: ok andann is in indian trail, north carolina. caller: good morning. i just wanted to comment on the -- i'm sorry the hearings they've had in the last two days

with two guys and yesterday robert kennedy. i objectively watch these things and listen very closely to what they say. i can see where the taxes with the bidens are wrong. i still can't understand why they don't get through their heads that they were turned in on trump's watch and builds bars -- in bill barr's watch and they were rejected, i can't remember his name. they were rejected and told by the district attorney that this guy could do anything he wanted to and he was a trump appointee. i can't understand why the

republicans don't see that everybody involved in these things going trump detached is not his own fault. it was their fault that bill barr said it was not worth looking into. i don't see anywhere where they can prove that the democrats came in. this story didn't just come out. it has been out and out and out i have heard about it until i'm sick of it. bidens laptop, i can't get over the fact that trump engaged illegally with china. the son-in-law was involved in saudi arabia. the republicans act like a pack of dogs. host: let's talk to george next

in new york, republican. caller: good morning. host: go right ahead. caller: the top news story of the week, i'm sorry to follow-up at last caller but it's gotta be the continuing coverage of hunter biden's corruption and his father's involvement. what i called about this morning is when are you going to cover and play the censorship hearing on the network instead of on your website. i look for it and i can't see it, when can i look at it? host: i actually don't know what we've got for the network. it is on the website. caller: but i don't have the website, i don't have the internet here, i only have cable. it seems it's an open question, are you censoring the stories yourself? host: what about the app, do you

get the app because you can watch it there. no? caller: why aren't you covering it on the network? host: it was live on c-span3. that's what i'm being told. john is in illinois, independent line. are you there? no? carolyn is next, vincent, ohio, dimmick read. -- democrat. caller: this will be because i'm from ohio but i picked -- but i think the big story of the week was that john legend was in cincinnati, ohio to bring attention to the issue that we are having to vote on on august 8 that would give the ohio

constitution, if you voted yes for it where you have to have 60+ voting for it and different than the way it is now we only need 50. she's -- he saw how important this about is for ohioans. i didn't go. i wish i had found out about it sooner. i really appreciated him seeing how important that boat is -- that boat is - vote is. that's my important story of the week for ohio. host: fred, a republican in michigan, go ahead. caller: i think the most important thing was the two highly credible irs agents, one

being a democrat that laid out how they were stopped and made not to ask questions and not allowed, at their stuff told before they could do search warrants in all the other stuff. host: ok. this is a text

rob is calling from new york, independent. caller: good morning. my tub story was also the fbi whistleblowers. those guys were great. we need to defund that whole organization and terror to part they are working against the american people and it's obvious. if you want to know who the enemies are, go look at stacy plaskin or dan goldman and watch out the democrats grandstand these hearings. they are not providing any support to the investigation or anything else. they are there to cause trouble. those people are the enemy so anybody both for democrats, you have -- you must have your head so far up your butt it's not funny. host: michigan, democrat, good morning. caller: my tub story is the

allegations against 16 michigan republicans for voter fraud. they should be arrested, thank you. host: let me find an article but i will take another call from anthony in detroit, independent. caller: good morning. the tub story that matters to me is often the ukraine war but in the news cycle my think it was height -- hunter biden and the biden family corruption. probably because of the hearing with the whistleblowers. it's funny, someone mentioned thincident when biden was vice president and he fired the prosecutor in ukraine. greta read a fact-check from usa say -- saying that wasn't

corrupt because the prosecutor wasn't prosecuting corruption in ukraine. that's an interesting fact check you guys had on c-span. the only problem, the only the -- the only thing is that the person they replaced them with wasn't a lawyer. we have a war because of it. host: the previous caller talked about this story come michigan charges 16 fake electors for the donald trump election law and felonies and says the michigan attorney general filed felony charges tuesday against 16 republicans who acted as fake electors for then president donald trump and 2020, accusing them of submitting false certificates that confirmed they were legitimate electors despite joe biden's victory in the state. going back to the whistleblower hearing, take a look at the irs

employee shapely from his opening statement [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] on [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] wednesday. [video clip] >> i have worked directly with united states attorneys in multiple districts and have supervisor test supervise cases and more than a dozen united states attorneys offices across the country. i've let, plantar x good undercover operations in more than a dozen countries i have investigated and manage some of the largest cases in the history of the agency, recovered more than $3.5 billion for the u.s. taxpayer. in this country, we believe in the rule of law and that applies to everyone. there should not be a two track justice system depending who you are and who you are connected to yet in this case there was. based on my experience coming here to tell you the u.s. attorney's office in the department of john's test justice handling the hunter biden case was different from any other ace my 14 years at the irs. at every stage come decisions were made that benefited the subject of this investigation.

for example, prosecutors concealed contents of hunter biden's laptop from investigators. the doj slow walk interviews and serving document a crest just requests and getting search warrant which were ready as early as april 2020 but were delayed until after the november 2020 election and never pursued. investigators are not allowed to follow-up what that message is from hunter biden's backup where he suggested he was sitting next to his father. the assistant united states attorney cited the optics of executing a search warrant on the president biden residence as a deciding factor for not allowing it even though she agreed probable cause existed. prosecutors instruct investigators not to ask about the big guy or dad when conducting interviews. the biden transition team was tipped off about interviews the night before the investigation. my fbi counterpart confirmed to this committee and recent testimony that the result was only one witness spoke to

investigators that day. these are just some of the examples of how the investigation was stymied. host: we are taking your calls this first hour on your top news story of the week. democrats, (202) 748-8000 republicans, (202) 748-8001 an independents (202) 748-8002. jason is in antioch, tennessee, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i get for my news from c-span.org, great organization a great news site. also you can go to x videos.com. host: is that all? georgia is in louisiana, good morning. caller: my tub story is the frost -- voter fraud in michigan. why hasn't the united states pursued the same thing? we have a right to vote in the

united states of america i don't understand why they are not going for voter fraud. its direct voter fraud. thank you. host: matt is next in somerville, massachusetts, independent. good morning. caller: good morning, my tub story for maybe the last 10 years has been how social media is totally destroyed the republican brain on your average voter. i cannot believe every morning especially today we hear people calling in with this nonsense, whatever tub story or investigation of the day they chosen. it's like there desperate for anything after all these years of trump, just brazenly breaking the law. they've got to find something,

the got to try to find something and hear these callers, it's like living in another world with their news outlets that are from online. this guy robert kennedy, the quality of discussion has been lowered so much. it's because of these things and republicans -- republican conservatives always say videogames will kill us all. i don't have respect for these people, i really don't we got to bring them back to reality somehow because they are really destroying the culture from inside out. it's like they live in a fairytale. they are just so angry ensued desperate for anything that they will go to these lengths to the point where we have to hear people like robert kennedy. i don't even care for this guy. the quality is just so low even on c-span.

20 years of this come i can't believe it's so low, thanks. host: take a look at this text -- peter is in new york, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. c-span is great. i think the tub story for me has

to be the judge kaplan, the federal district court judge upheld or found that trump civilly raped e. jean carol. that was shocking to me. i cannot fathom how our fellow citizens are supporting someone like that. it's of -- it's very shocking to me. i wish people would understand that is a very aggressive thing that someone did to someone else. so wrong. thank you for taking my call. host: here is an article about the georgia supreme court. this is on another topic related

to donald trump. bob is next, democrat from illinois, good morning caller: hello, c-span. the big story of the week to me was when i heard that kennedy got high in high school and college and he lifted up a woman that does not believe in the holocaust. he said don't get shot. kennedy was my man when he was president and his brother. i remember i came home from high

school and my father was sitting up there crying and i asked what's wrong. he didn't say anything and i looked at the tv in the present had gotten shot. -- president had gotten shot. i'm disappointed in this guy and he can't talk that well but he can't help that. that's the big story of the week. it's kennedy. he needs to shake hands with trump and just go with trump. that's what he needs to do, thank you very much. host: flora in alabama, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. my big story is today. they are arresting trump and all these major stories are coming together not coincidentally.

we are being distracted because today, they're coming in with the new banking system. they are distracting us to do the dirty work behind it. they want to change her money system. that's a big story for me. we are being distracted so dirty work can be done behind our backs. host: let's take a look at the house oversight ranking member jamie raskin. he was pushing back on gop efforts to discredit the bidens and here's a portion. [video clip] >> one thing you will not here today is any evidence of wrongdoing by president joe biden or his administration. every other diatribe by r. kelly's about concocting this scandal for president biden, this one is it complete and total lie. the ongoing case is the majority invites us to a striking

illustration of the success of the american system of independent prosecutors operating under the rule of law and outside the realm of the kind of political influence my colleagues are trying to exercise to day. the son of the sitting president of the united states lost his rather back in 2015. too many family sick round the country no, drug addiction is a dark and powerful affliction. like other addicts, hunter biden made foolish and criminal choices including failing to pay his taxes and owning a firearm in violation of federal law. he is now being held criminally accountable for it. his investigation began under the trump administration. it was conducted by a u.s. attorney for delaware who donald trump appointed to his office and who attorney general barr chose for this assignment, to conduct this investigation. in his file -- final press conference, attorney general barr expressed full confidence

in his work saying it was being handled responsibly and professionally within the department. to this point, i see no reason to appoint a special counsel and i have no plans to do so before i leave. furthermore, joe biden never publicly questioned or challenged this prosecution. when it began, he did not describe it as a witchhunt. like donald trump euro it he placed his trust in the american system. when he became president, not only did he not use his power to halt the investigation, he he had the hand picked attorney conducting it even though incoming presidents replace attorneys. his attorney general merrick garland made sure that the attorney general -- the attorney had full authority to prosecute whenever he saw fit in any district in the country. in the last few weeks, hunter

biden accepted a guilty plea in the president and the attorney general have not interfered with the case which is overseen by a federal judge appointed by donald trump. host: we got about half an hour left of the segment, asking you for your trip top story of the week. calling from norwalk, ohio, independent. caller: good morning. the woman from alabama's right, there is so much distraction going on, they are doing stuff in front of our faces in trying to do something behind their backs. the guy said move on, we need to make sure joe biden was not involved. it looks like he was involved. as for his trump, being accused and found guilty of rape, that's defamation of character. you have to put these people straight because this is exactly what's going on.

the media things all this stuff is true. the news actually lies to us. let's talk about the whistleblowers. their supervisor informed hunters team that they were going to be invested in areas and the records were moved. this will come out but they are trying to drag their feet and stall for time so the statute of limitations comes in we can to anything about it. wake up, people, we are in trouble. host: anne in greensboro, north carolina, good morning. caller: good morning. i want to point out that the republicans are basing their theory of biden being involved with his son on a computer -- only communication that was supposedly written by them that his father was with them at the time when he made his demand. if you look at it, it was itten in 2017.

joe biden was neitheric president nor present at the time so he wouldotave had any leverage to affect any policy at that time so doesn't make sense. it's just another story that republicans are pushing. host: susan's in worcester, massachusetts, republican. caller: hi, i'm looking at joe biden now. joe biden is one of the most corrupt people to hold the office and i cannot believe he is still there. i believe the whistleblowers. fbi interfered in our elections keeping the bidens above the water because they wanted trump out. he keeps fighting and that the kind of person i like. they are all against him.

why are they running against him? these other republicans know they don't have a shot. biden people don't even debate canada because kennedy was pushed under the rug. this guy is a coward. he won't answer any questions. this guy is so corrupt. he is the worst. people will still vote for him but he will be in a coma the next four years. they have a b plan. the other clown from california, newsom will be taking over. they know society can't walk or talk. show it to the american people. that's your president and that's

why we have these wars. then these creeps, they are corrupt as hell. they just want to make money. ukraine is a money laundering job. where's the money going? mitch mcconnell is good for getting money to but to kill all people because of the biden crime family? host: let's take a look at a text --

here is an article from the economist that says russian bombings of ukrainian forces have jolted we prices -- wheat prices. thelma is in bronx, new york, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, republicans, get over hunter biden. he is not running for president. the most corrupt president is donald trump. he was the most corrupt president in the united states.

my biggest story of the week is a federal judge in new york city upheld donald trump raping e. j ean king. he is corrupt. donald trump is the most corrupt president in the united states. not joe biden, donald trump is the most corrupt. his whole family are thieves. that is my story. [indiscernible] i never heard that in my life.

the case that trump raped host: we got it. take a look at some reaction from president trump gop rivals. they tell of is another potential indictment of the former president. there is the former south carolina governor nikki haley. [video clip] >> how does this indictment affect his candidacy? >> it will keep on going. the rest of this primary election will be in reference to trump and b about lawsuits and be about legal fees and judges. it's just going to continue to go -- to be a further and further distraction that's why i am running the does we need a new generational leader. we cannot keep dealing with the drama and the negativity. we cannot keep dealing with all of this. we got china literally trying to be a war with this. you've got north korea detaining a soldier and testing ballistic missiles.

we need to focus on the debt and the lack of transparency in schools and crime in the raising is on the border. we cannot be focused on lawsuits over and over again. host: here is former president trump at townhall hosted by fox news in iowa on wednesday and he talked about the investigation as election interference by democrats. [video clip] >> what is it about you that it bothers you? >> it doesn't bother me. it bothers the audience. i got the letter sunday night. i don't think anybody sends a letter on sunday night. they want to interfere with the election. it's never been done like this in the history of our country and it's a disgrace. what's happening to our country whether it's the borders or the elections for things like this where the doj has become a

weapon for the democrats, and absolute weapon. it seems every time, we are leading by a lot in the polls. places like iowa. [applause] not only the republicans leading against joe biden by a tremendous amount, they want to try to demean and diminish and frighten people. but they don't frighten us because we will make america great again. [no audio] [applause] host: let's go next to california, independent. caller: good morning. my biggest news story of the week was fran drescher talking to bernie sanders about the strike. if the teamsters go on strike, we will have a massive strike i think it's for the good and maybe we will get a general fund

going but i don't think you will hear about it. bernie talking to fran drescher was the top news story. he did well and she did well and talked about the problems of hollywood and what's going on and how the executives are trying to get rich off the backs of the poor people and the consumer doesn't realize it. i just think if we were to look more into this and support our fellow workers and unions, it would work out better. host: dorothy in baltimore, maryland, democrat, good morning. caller: i want to make two points -- went donald trump and the republicans talk about nancy pelosi sending in the national guard to the capital, donald trump was supposed to do it. when george floyd was killed, donald trump sent the national guard and military to protect the capital. it was on tv.

these people keep talking about joe biden. donald trump is been indicted because they have video and a written report and words of donald trump saying he committed the crimes himself. that's what he keeps getting indicted because the grand jury's have evidence. they don't have anything with joe biden doing anything with any written voice or nothing. those are my two points. thank you. host: jim is in winter park, florida, republican. caller: good morning. i am not a trump supporter. i'm not a trump fan and i want him out of the picture as far as running resident. i am a republican. but i'm sick and tired of listening to democrats turn the thing around when they have not

nailed donald trump with any lawsuits where he has come away guilty. all of the things that happen since he came down the escalator in 2015, we had maxine waters and jamie raskin and nancy pelosi and starting this russian collusion thing. that was nothing but a lie. democrats turned around and called republicans nazis and fascists and deplorable. two great irish -- agency is relayed out legal business practices for hunter biden and the big guy. what did the democrats do? they turned around and tried belabor trump. it's disgusting that people call in and are so taken in by feeble old man in a pedophile son who has used his father's name to get away with illegal and immoral acts. during wednesday's hearing while

democrats got the chance to question a whistleblower, they instead rambled on about trump the double standard in the justice system being a black and white issue. the democrats are the deplorable's. it's time for all to come out. we need to stop the infighting. donald trump should just go away , joe biden should step away from being a president because if he stays, and down from stays, there will be a lot of people voting for him that will scream to the country's words with going on. host: i'm curious who you would court for the republican nomination. caller: right now, my my favorite one is the one from south dakota. he is using common sense when he talks. i like ron desantis from florida . florida is a great state and is being governed by a great governor.

all the baloney going on, it's all shiny objects the people .2. we have very small amount of gays and lgbtq people. we can make provisions for those people but don't ram it down people's throats. host: got it. let's go to bill in columbia, maryland, independent. caller: thank you, good morning. my top concern or story in my mind is oppression by the media of the serious allegations against president biden and his family. my view essentially is seeing it as colluding, the media colluding with the government, the white house and the doj. they used terms including c-span like unsubstantiated, unfounded

when they talk about this story and they bring up this story. with the january 6, you don't hear terms like alleged insurrection going just you insurrection like is taken for granted. host: c-span uses the word attack on the capital but we really can't use alleged because it actually happened. we sought happened on tv. caller: insurrection is the term i'm focusing on. as far as jamie raskin, i listened to the long quote and i can pick it apart piece by piece but i will not do that. this story should be like watergate on steroids but it's not because the media and frankly c-span is covering it up . one thing c-span has for it is the opportunity for the people to call in. it should be a special counsel

called merrick garland's prayer the cover up serve as i'm concerned. it's a fact that he has not called a special counsel and there is so my fax out there, the financial records, the whistleblowers, the tony bobolin ski interview, there is so much out there. every syria's media organization should be investigating this like they did watergate. with the january 6 hearings, it was just a drumbeat of week after week, day after day. january 6, the long quotes that you would play come i would like to hear some of the long quotes. i didn't listen to your whole story this morning because i didn't have the opportunity. that's my view of it. this is the biggest story and we have a president -- there are serious allegations and a lot of facts out there. the doj should call a special

counsel to take this seriously and the american people -- the democrats should quit trying to cover up. it's like every democrat, when are the democrats that have some integrity going to break away and say this is enough. we have a president who is corrupt and it's putting the country at risk. it's a national security risk. those are my thoughts. thank you for the opportunity to share them this morning. host: this is a tweet --

caller: thank you for taking my call. i wish you would say that donald trump is corrupt. democrats never did anything wrong and fyi may democrats. i am proud of that. secondly, put yourself it's like a child he keeps repeating the same thing. ask yourself, are they making mistakes?

that is my concern. i'm really worried that republicans are calling him out. you can call joe biden corrupt but you cannot say it to cover up. thank you. host: matt is in texas, republican, good morning. caller: yes, ma'am. i would like to say god bless the irish whistleblower -- the irs whistleblowers. they tried to go after but when you tell the truth, you can given to anybody. these guys were excellent. they been with the irs for years and they see the corruption. they've been seeing its since 2018.

and even before. they tracked down $17.3 million that biden was doing with communist china and romania and selling influence. that's what they are after. joe biden was selling classified documents to red china and hunter biden was the front man to it. they have to go after hunter biden but the one that was doing it was joe biden. in james biden. those of the once and his fourth trump goes, i will vote for ron desantis all these people calling in, trump was cleared on the mueller report. he was cleared on the durham report.

every one of those reports, he's been the most investigated person. trump was not a traitor and that's what joe biden is. he is a bald-faced traitor. the doj with merrick arlen and them are covering up for him. the fbi has been doing it. they knew exactly what he was doing. they knew he was a bald-faced traitor. they know he's corrupt and his son is corrupt. james biden is corrupt. his whole family, ashley? as far as that dope in the white house, they cover that up to. host: brian is in joliet, illinois, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, eisai draft -- eisai draft alexandria

cortez ok's you - ocasio on the green new deal. thank you for taking my call. host: cheryl is in maplewood new jersey, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. if trump was such an american one to speak the american people and not just the people on aboard or handwritten message then he needs to speak in front of the grand jury and speak to the american people in front of the grand jury, thank you. host: nancy is a republican in florida, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to talk to the democrat people, what is going on in new york, california and

other countries? i'm so upset right now because the people are getting died. they come in higher house and they break your house they want -- and we want to take whatever they want and the democrats don't help us. we don't want any democrats no more. we're done with them. they do nothing. we cannot feed our children, we cannot do anything. we are a bunch of little rats because of the democrats. that's all i have to say and thank you for asking goodbye. host: clinton is in concord, north carolina, independent. caller: good morning. objectively i'm an independent with progressive leanings.

donald trump own cabinet turned on him. donald trump's own appointed advisors were opposed to his views. all partisan leanings aside, if you take an objective look at the investigation of the past few years, it would point to a corrupt individual self-aggrandizing who has no regard for the american people to endorse and support, this is the guy who brought you covid. he undid the hard work of previous administrations. host: you said this is the guy that brought you covid? caller: donald trump i would say, his mismanagement of the american bureaucracy around

covid, mismanagement is what brought a lot of the tragedies of the past for five years we have endured in america. his polarity as a leader, he is the demagogue that's been talked about. i've never heard anyone -- never seen anyone appoint people i've never seen anyone appoint people and click -- and tout their accomplishments and republicans are great people for americans. the americans decided they didn't want that. they don't want bill barr as attorney general. these investigations were initiated under him. he bowed out a lot of the republican doubt out -- a lot of

the republicans bowed out after the election. a lot of these investigations have merit and value but he said it right. anyone with a sense of morality and common decency can tell which side of the isle they should be standing on at this point. host: we got it. mary is and wake forest, north carolina, good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i've been a democrat for over 50 years. i have always been loyal to my party, but i have been watching on the news and reading and it seems like a lot of this investigation into the biden family and he seems to be a part

of it that a lot of this is pointing to the fact that they are corrupt, very corrupt. they have ties to russia, they've received millions of dollars from china, russia, romania and ukraine. even though i'm a democrat, i'm trying to listen to both sides of the story. it doesn't sound very good what the bidens have been doing. there is just something about him i do not trust. i might be a democrat but i'm also a patriot and i try to listen to both sides. i'm not for late-term abortions. there are other alternatives besides killing our family members because we don't want a

baby. women didn't used to think that way back in my day so much. i really think that's a bad thing. to just condone this and not only condone it but promote it. i really believe that this next election i will not be voting democrat unless someone else is in there besides joe biden. host: host: ok. shirley is in raleigh, north carolina on the republican line. caller: good morning. ok. joe biden is a disgrace to our democracy. he needs to step down so that he can go to federal prison. hunter should go to prison and i for see a republican president

in the future, in 2024, and i hope that every democrat in congress and senate has to eat crow every day for the next four years. this country is in deep trouble. i would like to know what the world leaders think of him. he's lost. he doesn't know where he is. host: all right, shirley. we are out of time. next, president biden tided bidenomics --bin touted

bidenomics yesterday. we discussed with douglas holtz-eakin. later, noah bookbinder on possible criminal charges facing donald trump. first, a speech. [video clip] >> it's another way of saying restore the american dream. every american willing to work hard to get a job -- hard should be able to get a job where they live. my dad used to have an expression. he said, joey, a job is about more than a paycheck.

it is about your dignity. it is about your dignity. it's about respect. it is about being able to look your kid in the eye and say it's going to be ok. he meant it. he never got to go to college but he meant it. he worked like hell. investing in america. investing in americans. because when you invest in your people, you strengthen the middle class, we see stronger economic growth that benefits everybody. the rich do well and should be able to continue to do well. i-95 was back open in less than two weeks. with american ingenuity and workers, we prove everybody wrong. i don't know about you, but it fills me with pride about what

we can do when we work together. the same will be true here. a clean energy future we are building across america. thousands of families relying on good jobs for their projects. it means restoring a sense of pride, a sense of hope and dignity that got lost somewhere along the way. the longest time we have been told to give up on manufacturing in america. how many times have you read the paper in the last 25 years? we can never leave the world in manufacturing again. we are and we will. i have never believed that and i don't think most of you did. this nation needs to lead the world in manufacturing. we are going to do it again. those people in this country and i can say honestly i have never

been more optimistic about america's future than i am on this very day. i swear to god. i have long said to other world leaders, i know almost everyone of them personally, that it's never been a good bet to bet against america. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. i am joined by douglas holtz-eakin, president of the american action forum. start talking about the american action forum. do you take positions on fiscal policy and how you are funded? guest: it does not take positions. our experts can take positions they think are the best. we cover a waterfront of domestic and economic policy issues, health, tech and

innovation, labor. we try to cover everything. there mission every day is to do policy research, education, but to do it in english for nonspecialists, working on whatever is happening in the agencies, so we built it to do that. i started it in. 2010 we are funded by a combination of donations from individuals, trade associations, corporations. host: president biden is building his reelection campaign around bidenomics. what is your take on it? guest: i'm not buying it. i'm skeptical of a lot of the policies they have adopted. if you look at the polling, the public is not buying it either. they hear this term but they do

not support the president's handling of the economy. i think the reason is the record is not that strong. there's a low employment rate but that is the flipside of an economy that has 40 year highs inflation and people feel that. the economy inherited was growing, now growing about 2%. the economy had inflation of about 1.4% and now it's much higher depending on how you measure it. it's hard to approve of the bottom line of that. host: i will remind viewers that if you would like to call in and make a comment or ask a question, you can do so on our lines by party affiliation. democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, and independents, (202) 748-8002. let's take a look at what president biden said yesterday in philadelphia, giving a defense of how he's doing on the

economy, and then i will have you respond to it. host: inflation has slowed every single month -- [video clip] >> inflation has slowed every single month for the last 12. it's at the lowest point in over two years. the u.s. has the lowest inflation rate of any major economy in the world, the so-called g-7. it's less than two thirds of what it was a year ago, down from 9% to 3%, and it's going to go lower. at the same time, pay for low-wage workers has gone up at a faster pace than in over two decades. wages are growing faster than inflation. that means working people are able to have a little bit of breathing room. according to the surveys, job satisfaction in america is at a 36 year high.

we have more work to do. people are coming off the sidelines to work. the share of working age americans in the workforce is as high as it's been in 20 years, including during every single day under my predecessor. and that is not an accident. it is my economic plan in action. host: that was the president from yesterday. what do you think of that? guest: inflation is the key. it affects everyone and your feelings about future inflation are probably the core of how people will grade the president's handling of the economy. consumer price index inflation has gone up over the past year. that is influenced by the fact that energy prices in that measure went down by 60% over the past year. that's not going to continue. so it's a little bit of a misleading topline. if you do what the federal reserve does and strip out food and energy prices because they

are the most volatile, there's progress, but it's still nearly two times the fed's target. if you use the personal consumption expenditures price index, their core inflation went from 4.9% to 4.6%. when you hear the fed chair express caution about we are not done yet, there's a long road to go, that is why. the core inflation, the trend in the economy, remains elevated well above 2%. that means the fed is in a position where there are no good options. they can either continue to restrain the economy and get inflation down, but that brings bad news, fewer home sales, auto sales, less demand, ultimately slowing the labor market, wages do not rise as fast, jobs don't rise as fast. that is bad news. or you say we are not going to try and stop it.

were in a place where there are no great choices. host: staying with inflation, the administration is saying this is a worldwide problem, and the president has said we have the lowest inflation rate of any g-7 country. guest: part of it is a worldwide problem, but if you look at the onset of inflation in 2021, it was 1.4% in january. the president took office. the you -- european consumer price inflation went up every quarter. they went from 0-4. it has since gone higher because of the invasion of ukraine. you look at that key period in 2021, that is what they got. we got a rise of over 6%. that is because we did a $2 trillion american rescue plan, $2.5 trillion of fed stimulus. host: we have been hearing that

a recession is pretty much inevitable, but it has not come. why do you think that is? guest: is turned out that -- it has turned out that spending is more resilient than anyone expected. the key is going to be how does the business community react to the environment? after world war ii, every recession in the u.s., with the exception of one, the pandemic, started by the business community, they stop investing, don't buy equipment, software, don't hire people, and that gets followed by households six to nine months later. that's the typical onset. i have been looking carefully at our business is still spending and it's been quite weak over the past year. host: i want to ask you about the health of the federal budget. guest: please do not. host: you know, a lot of people would point to tax cuts under

the previous administration as bringing down revenue and that essentially hurting the federal -- making the deficit even worse. what do you think about that? guest: it has increased the deficit but they are not the sole problem. the fundamental problem with the federal budget is it's on an unsustainable trajectory. you will see spending grow faster than revenue as far as the eye can see, that as far as the eye can see. we are headed down a path we cannot continue. so the key is to get spending and taxes aligned and have them grow at the same rate. right now, taxes are going to grow at roughly the rate of the economy. if we had the economy growing at 2% with 2% inflation, they will go to 4% a year. that is almost baked in.

medicare is rising about 6.8%. those are the projections over the next 10 years. they are going to grow faster than any possible increase in revenues. there simply has to be some attention paid to those big entitlement programs. that is where the money is. it's 70% of the budget. host: how do we do that because everybody is saying we are not touching those? guest: it is a mistake. it is a disservice to americans to not touch them. social security is supposed to go bankrupt in 10 years. if you're 55, you have no idea what your benefits are going to be. on behalf of the american people, they should fix social security. the same is true of medicare. medicare by itself is responsible for one third of all federal debt outstanding. it was never meant to be financially sustainable. it is time to get serious about making it sustainable. it's going to take more taxes and reforms to spending programs. host: let's talk to callers.

stephanie is up first in brooklyn, new york. good morning. caller: i am listening to the conversation, and as a retiree, and i received social security and pension, but -- and a pension, but all the years i have been paying into social security and medicare, having it taken out of my paycheck, and you are telling me, during the bush administration, the republicans have taken from social security for many years. they owe us because the government took from social security. that is why it has not grown. that is why the money is not there, because they took from us. i have a niece who is working two jobs, three children, cannot even get daycare. she is struggling, but all the money is going to those rich people who are not paying their

taxes but you want to take our retirement when we are struggling. people did not have to live like that years ago. i used to work -- i had a job and one of my paychecks paid my rent. now, two paychecks pay the rent and you cannot even have food. i have to pay out-of-pocket for medication. biden is doing the best he can. trump rode off the back of obama's administration. let the rich pay taxes. let them pay their fair share. guest: a couple things. number one, no social security reform will affect the currently retired. indeed, not reforming social security would affect the currently retired, because if we literally did nothing, which i think is unimaginable, retirees across the board would receive a 25% cut in their checks. that's unthinkable and should not even be contemplated.

it will affect future retirees. that is where the real work has to be done. second point is this issue of stealing from social security. social security is a pay-as-you-go system. current workers pay the benefits of current retirees. there's talk of a trust fund only because, when the money comes in, it gets credited to the trust fund, but it's in the treasury and it is used to pay bills. so social security revenues have been used for other purposes. that is the way it was designed. the way medicare is designed. you can debate whether you like it but that's how it works. host: how much impact does the president have on gas prices? what can the president do to bring down gas prices? guest: in the near term, they cannot do very much. we did see a dramatic change in the global oil market under the

obama administration in particular with the development of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing. the u.s. and north america in general became the largest producer and exporter of oil. this administration has decided to reverse course, and that has an impact on global oil supplies. it puts opec in the position of having a dramatic influence on oil prices. so there have been some decisions made that lead to higher prices on average. host: jaden is next. good morning. guest: i have a couple -- caller: i have a couple points to make. i know you said biden's ratings. the ratings of the whole government are down. i would like c-span to compare the ratings for biden and the supreme court in congress. the next thing is that the lady

was right. when george bush got us into these wars, that added $15 trillion. when you add up all the money for these injured veterans, the cost of bringing all the people over here everyday, it's about $15 trillion. they borrowed money from the social security fund. also we bailout out the banks, the stock market, trillions of dollars right there. both of them were trillions of dollars. and then this is all on the republicans. you look at trump administration. >> -- you look at trump's ministry should.

interest rates were nearly zero. the fed took them up and up. if biden had 0% interest rates, can you imagine what the economy would be like? i don't understand the democrats. that is free money for trump. they need to let the people know about this. host: a couple of things -- guest: a couple of things. i cannot applaud the fiscal performance of anyone in the 21st century. we have had terrible budget problems. in 2003, they were present, and its continued to this day. we will have to do something differently because during the 21st century the debt has only gone up and that is the fundamental problem we face. no one should get a gold star. zero interest rates in

retrospect look like a mistake. we kept interest rates at zero for a long time. as i have gone up, and the fed has raised in them -- the fed has raised them because they have to, it's put a lot of stress into the financial sector. banks and up in trouble and that's due in part to higher interest rates. so it's challenging for the economy and the government. interest is now bigger than the pentagon in budget projections. that's frightening. i don't think anyone should applaud the performance we have seen so far. i also don't think anybody should be naive and say we don't have to touch things, social security, medicare. we need to get serious on all fronts. host: how would you rate the performance of the fed chair, jerome powell? guest: he has done well. there is one mistake there, in 2020 hindsight. they kept rates at zero for too

long and should have moved to tightening monetary policy somewhere in the middle of 2021. they waited until 2022. i could give you a number of reasons why they came to that conclusion but that is forgivable. other than that, he's done an especially good job of standing up and telling it like it is. he's very plainspoken and straightforward. for people who do this for a living, he gave a speech in jackson hole in 2022, on the fed website, four pages long. it's the best speech i've ever read from an economic policymaker. plain speech, this is it, take a look. host: jake in florida, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. a question to you, mr. douglas. since they have been saying inflation has gone down, when are we actually going to feel that in the real world, shopping

in grocery stores and at the gas pumps and all that? guest: that's a good question and the reality has been -- for example, right now the number the president seiden is the consumer price index year-over-year 3% -- the president cited is the consumer price index year-over-year 3%, but the things you need the most have higher inflation in the other parts, so people are still feeling that. the president also said wages are rising faster than inflation. that is true for one month. in general, they have not been. so you are feeling that too. you are making more money but it is going out the door more quickly. how long does this last? hopefully not much longer but we are cautioned all the time by chairman powell, who we were just discussing, the chair of the federal reserve board, this

will take time. when they announced they were going to raise interest rates, he thought he might be able to get inflation back to the target by 2024. so this will not happen in weeks or months or even quarters. this is years and that's disheartening given how hard it is to manage your finances right now. host: victor next in easton, maryland. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a comment. it is kind of hard to believe -- people keep calling and complaining about joe biden and hunter biden, that they are so corrupt, this and that. if that is the case, they are still under investigation.

so far, they have proved nothing. host: is this related to the economy? caller: now. they asked me if it was the economy or a personal concern or comment. host: why don't you call back during open forum so we can talk about event? curtis in clearwater, florida, go-ahead. caller: i'm wondering his opinion on representative's weichert -- on representative weichert of arizona's speech and your opinion on why no one wants

to listen to him. he actually talks about the numbers. my son is an actuary. we talk about the numbers. we talk about republicans, democrats, but nobody wants to face the problem. he seems to have the answer but nobody ever listens. i don't know. just your opinion on what he has to say. host: i am a fan of that representative. spared now, the harder question is why. why do we not pay more attention to the budget. why is it that one member of the houses is giving speeches and no

one cares? that's a hard question for me. i have been involved in this for my entire life and i have come to the conclusion that we really need to understand -- george w. bush, his budgets basically said we need to win the war on terror at all costs. the message sent under the obama administration was, it will all be fine if we all pay our share. mr. trump said nothing. so if you are the average american, the most important person in the country has told you for 20 years everything is fine. and that is not true. i hope the next election will be the teachable moment where both sides will say we have some problems in we need to deal with them -- problems and we need to deal with them. let's be sensible. host: how much of the current situation would you ascribe to

pass spending like the pandemic or current spending for administration priorities like the infrastructure act or inflation reduction act? guest: it is not the pandemic. we needed to spend a lot of money on the pandemic but it was all temporary. if you look at the budget projections prior to the pandemic and after the pandemic, it's the same basic problem that i described, spending. there's just a blip where we borrowed a lot and addressed the pandemic. it's also not anything to do with current priorities that they vote on every year. it is not discretionary spending on the pentagon or other programs. it is the big mandatory programs, social security, medicare, the affordable care act. they have not changed and are driving the red ink. host: curtis, good morning.

caller: good morning. mr. douglas, appreciate you coming on and telling america what your opinions are. i think we gain a lot of better ground on this topic if we tame the deficit other than attacking medicare or social security. why don't people attacked the defense department more or spending beyond control elsewhere in the government? it seems like you always want to attack the social programs that help millions of americans, i one of them, also on social security. we need social security and all we have to do is maybe raise the employment tax to get us out of trouble, but i am not repaying the debt that people

are taking from social security. how about let's tax the rich? i am not pouncing on trumpet how could a man pay $750 -- on trump but how could a man pay $750 when he makes billions of dollars? guest: i'm sorry if this appears to be an attack on the social programs. the reality is that is where the money is. your federal government is going to spend about $80 trillion, an unbelievable meta-money. of that, $10 trillion will be interest. $20 trillion will be defense spending and annual nondefense spending for the various agencies and programs, but $50 of it will be those big programs, the social programs, so i am interested for two reasons. number one, that is where the money is. you have to be cognizant of that.

number two, they are important programs. they are the social safety net in the u.s. right now, that social safety net is not financially sound. it is fraying and will fall apart. that is a disservice to all the people like you who rely on social security. future retirees are going to count on it. let's put it in shape to survive the next 30, 40 years. that is the key issue. host: let's go to dante in washington, d.c. good morning. caller: earlier you said gas prices were unlikely to be it by anything -- unlikely to be affected by anything. i do not agree with that. biden ended the keystone pipeline, impose all these oil regulations. the cost of gas has caused everything to go up.

inflation. eventually the dollars going down. i think the most important thing for our economy is to turn the pipeline on and promote our oil industry so the world can use that. guest: i both agree and disagree. i agree decisions this administration has made on the energy front have in fact changed the landscape of global oil markets and put opec back in charge of setting prices. i agree. the month-to-month fluctuations in gas prices that happen are largely beyond the control of any president. they go up $.50, there is nothing the president can do to get them down quickly. he set the tenor at the beginning of his administration and we are living with the fluctuations around that. host: mike is calling from crescent city, florida, independent. caller: i wanted to ask a couple

questions. social security is not an entitlement, it's an earned benefit. if you are worried about these entitlements, how come we never talk about corporate welfare? you have industries getting billions of dollars, most of it going to profitable farmers who are millionaires. i don't know why we never look at that. with the social security, all we have to do is raise the cap, put the money back that was stolen all over the years, and it would solve this problem. stop going after these social programs and let's go after these rich farmers and oil companies. they get subsidies. why is that? please explain that. thank you. guest: we do in fact have subsidies embedded in the tax code. we just put in a lot more. the inflation reduction act has these clean energy tax credits, tax cuts for the recipients who do we energy projects. those will be is.

that is how it will work. we could choose not to. we could choose not to try to influence businesses to pursue different goals but we do not. we regulate put these incentives in the tax code to pursue different objectives. you know, the farm bill is being discussed now. it needs to be reauthorized. there's a lot of money in the farm bill but most of the money is food stamps. does that need to get cut back? that is what congress needs to decide. it needs to make some choices. you cannot spend on everything, which is what we have done so far. host: james is next, akron, ohio, a democrat. good morning. caller: so much to talk about. first of all, the farm bill, the majority of that is going to

wealthy farmers and of farmers are not getting anything. the small amounts that they get is just -- it don't even amount to much. the people receiving that money do not need it. what i want to ask, my question, trump gave a tax break to the wealthy that was permanent and a tax break to small and poor people was not and we have since repaid ours. now, if the wealthy tax break was not permanent, would we be in a situation that we are in now? if they paid those four or five years of taxes like we had to pay ours back, in other words, if the tax break now with the

same, what with the situation be now? host: there are no individual -- guest: there are no individual tax cuts in the 2017 act that are permanent. they all go away in 2025. there will have to be decisions about whether we retain them or if they go back to their old rates. that is a coming debate. the entire 20 tax bill was about $2 trillion over 10 years. we are already running a deficit this year of $1.3 trillion. so we have bigger problems than any single tax bill, program. my message would be we need to look at all of it, from stem to stern, and decide where we are going to reduce things, where we are going to eliminate things, and some places where we have to raise things. anyone who looks at social

security comes to the conclusion the minimum benefit is too low, so the first thing you do is raise that, the you have to fix it somewhere else. host: staying with the revenue side of the budget, how big of a percentage corporate taxes as opposed to individual taxes? guest: this is not your father's tax code. corporate tax is not a big revenue raiser anymore. the biggest tax for most americans is the payroll tax. the individual income tax is a little bit bigger than payroll taxes. those are the dominant forms of revenue. everything else is really a marginal change. host: let's talk to karen and alabaster, alabama -- karen in alabaster, alabama, republican. good morning. caller: i want to emphasize what a couple callers have said. we are spending a lot of money on defense, sending lots of money to ukraine, and climate change.

what is frustrating as you look at these representatives passing all these bills and they are invested in the defense industry and electronics. so i feel like they are pushing needs to make money for themselves. number two, the tax code is a mess. if everybody pays 10% and gets rid of all the subsidies and tax breaks and all that, i think that would help, and it's very frustrating that americans get up every day and go to work and put up money in social security and these people that are under 55 are saying i'm not going to have my money and seniors? the federal government needs to have less control. it needs to go back to the states because they are a mess and taking money for themselves. it is frustrating. guest: a lot in there. i will not comment on congressional ethics.

in terms of the social security structure, that has been the way social security was designed for our entire lives. the problem is it just does not survive the retirement of the baby boom and a shift to a permanently higher ratio of retirees to workers. there will be many more people receiving benefits that are paying in and the existing system cannot accommodate that, so we need to modify the system. it is not an attempt to single out anybody as it is an attempt to balance it. caller: i have a question. saudi arabia has bought the largest refinery in the united states. now, would that have any way to change prices on gasoline? are they shipping -- are they

refining the gas here and then taking it everywhere else and making more money? are they charging us more and then they go and buy into the united states with this livgolf thing, so how much is saudi arabia making from us? guest: the honest answer is i have no idea. i was unaware of the saudis buying a refinery. i would say that both oil and gasoline are globally traded products so if one company decided to ship their gasoline overseas and not sell it in the u.s., there would be less here and that would raise prices but there is an incentive for other companies to bring it to the u.s. host: jerry is next, an independent in chester, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning.

you know, this guy comes out -- what does he say, social security is an entitlement or whatever? like another caller said, to fix social security, all you have to do is raise the cap, get rid of the cap, so everybody pays 6.2%. maybe raise that to 14% and get rid of the -- i forgot my train of thought here. raise it from 12.4% to 14%. there is a cap on social security. that would solve the problem for the next actuarial period. as far as corporate taxes, i looked up corporate taxes on

various websites. in 1952, 32 percent of our revenue came from corporate taxes into the treasury. now it's 7%. so with this guy is saying is not true. guest: with respect, that is exactly what i said. caller: no. guest: it's not? it used to be a major revenue raiser and no longer is. caller: what happened? guest: that's a good question. one of the things that was true in the 1950's is we were essentially a monopoly industrial power in the world. most of the world was in ruins after world war ii. it was an enormously profitable period for u.s. companies and corporate revenues reflected that. corporate profitability went down dramatically over time and revenues down with it. one thing that was revealing

about that was, after the 1986 reform, which was an attempt to broaden the base and get more revenue, it never showed up. the second important feature of the landscape is that corporations are no longer the dominant form of business operation. we have partnerships, limited liability partnerships, entities which are nontraditional c corporations and do not get taxed by the corporation income tax. that is where the majority of business income is reported these days. host: let's talk to alan next, a republican in indiana. good morning. caller: hello? host: go ahead. caller: i was curious if mr. holtz-eakin -- does he think if joe biden would have allowed the pipeline to go through and if he would have switched so much

money to the screen new deal, which nobody can afford the cars or a way to charge them or is there any place to charge them in the country to be honest with you? very few and it takes much time. what i have stopped -- would that have stopped this inflation that this administration started? guest: no. i don't think a single pipeline will make any dramatic difference. i'm not a big fan of the inflation reduction act clean energy tax credits. i think there are better ways to address climate change that would be less costly, more efficient. the fund a middle problem with inflation comes from -- the fundamental problem with inflation comes from fiscal and monetary stimulus in the pandemic being too much in a $25 trillion economy. everything the fed and congress did in 2020 with the onset of

the pandemic i felt was appropriate and well done and everything that happened in 2021 and thereafter was too much and gave us inflation. host: one more call. deborah is in maryland. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am a retired tax call. you said you don't understand why nobody wants to seriously address the fiscal problem. when clinton came an -- clinton came in, one of the first things he passed was the omnibus appropriations act. it did not cause inflation but he was punished for that by losing the congress, the senate and the house. that is why nobody wants to do this. people do not want to pay taxes and they want the benefits. the second thing is inflation.

i keep hearing people calling him complaining about, you know, the gas prices are not going back to what they were. when i was a kid in the 1950's, candy bars cost five cents. inflation comes, inflation goes down, candy bars are never going to cost five since again. when reagan came in and "killed" inflation, gas did not go back to 35 since a gallon, which was what it was before the inflation started. i looked it up. i think people have unrealistic expectations here. when they say inflation is going down, it does not mean the price of gas will go back to what it was during the pandemic. it means the rate of increase is not accelerating beyond 3% or whatever the number is now. and i would just like to point out those two things. i think if you really want to

make america great again, you want to go back to the tax breaks that prevailed when -- tax rates that prevailed when america was supposedly great. guest: she is right that inflation does not mean prices are falling and we should not expect them to go back to their original values in any event. however, the fed has defined price stability as 2% inflation, which means, on average, inflation rises 3% year-over-year. host: douglas holtz-eakin is the president of the american action forum. thank you for joining us. next, former president trump faces potential crinal charges over his efforts to overrn the 2020 election. next to discuss how those legal issues could impact his run for office is noah bookbinder, president of citizens for response building ethics in washington. we will be right back. ♪

>> american history tv, saturdays on c-span two, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. at 7 p.m. eastern, author, political activist and former world chess champion garry kasparov discusses the 75th anniversary of the 1948 berlin airlift and looks at president truman's leadership during the crisis and lessons that could be applied to the global conflicts we face today. at 9:30 p.m. eastern, author rebecca roberts talks about her book on hold power, which examines if first lady edith wilson was an acting president while president wilson recovered from a stroke, and looked at wilson's life as the second mrs. wilson to live in the white house. watch american history tv saturdays on c-span two or anytime on c-span.org/history.

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washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. my guest is noah bookbinder, president of citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington, also called c.r.e.w. welcome to the program. remind us of what this is, the mission, and where the funding comes from. guest: crew is a nonpartisan nonprofit organization that seeks to promote ethics in government to reduce the influence of money in politics and promote democracy in america. our funding comes from a combination of individuals and foundations that care about ethics and transparency and democracy. host: and i want to ask you about the news of former president donald trump's potential involvement -- sorry,

potential indictment in the january 6 probe, and you tweeted this, "justice may finally be coming." what are the specific criminal charges he could be facing and what will you be watching? guest: yes. so at the end of 2020 and beginning of 2021, donald trump did something we have never seen before in this country, which was that he tried to halt the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to another, which is something that goes back to the very founding of this country, and ultimately incited a violent insurrection to try to do it, and as we look at it, that is just about the most serious offense you can commit as a leader in this country, so it's been a long road but it looks like there may well finally be some account ability -- some accountability

for the conduct, which we just cannot have if we are going to continue to have a viable democracy. we don't know exactly what the charges will be, but the target letter that special counsel zach smith sent suggested a number of options. one of those is conspiracies to defraud the united states, which is likely to be a charge based on, at least in part, the use of fake electors, of people who claimed to represent the votes of their states but in fact did not. it looks likely that there could be charges of obstruction of an official proceeding. in other words, congress and the vice president were supposed to get together on january 6, 2021, and certify the election, both to the american people. there was this massive effort through a number of means,

including, ultimately, violence, to stop that from happening. that is where that obstruction charge comes in. finally, it looks like there may be charges based on the insurrection itself. it looks at the form those could take if that target letter is a guide. it actually is a civil rights offense. in this case, it would be the rights of millions of people to have their votes counted, people who voted in yet -- voted and yet, if congress did not certify the election, if control was instead given to the person who did not win, those people would be denied the right to have their votes counted. there are a lot of charges that could apply, but those are a good bet for where charges could be coming. host: and i will remind our viewers that if you would like to call in, you can start doing that now.

democrats, (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, and independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also text us and interact with us on social media. noah, your organization put out a report called the case for donald trump's disqualification under the 14th amendment. explain that. how would that work? guest: the 14th amendment to the constitution, which was ratified in the aftermath of the civil war, contains a provision that most people have forgotten about in the 150 plus years since, which says that, if a person swears an oath to support the constitution and then engages in insurrection against it, that person is disqualified from office. what the framers of the 14th amendment had in mind is people

who tried to overthrow the government, overthrow the democracy, should not be in charge of it, and specifically they were thinking of confederates in the wake of the civil war. so that was part of the 14th amendment. that is not the part that most people remember now. and in the years after the 14th amendment, most people just understood that and accepted it and confederate leaders did not try to get state or federal positions, but some did and were disqualified by courts or by other means under the 14th moment. and that is something that is still very much part of the constitution. it is a living part of our law. and it is something that was designed for the moment in which we find ourselves, where you had an effort to overturn a free and fair election to keep someone in

power who had lost, which is exactly -- and do it violently -- and that is exactly the kind of thing that is part of the 14th amendment that was meant to address that if you are somebody who tries to overturn the constitution and the government, you should not then be able to be in charge of it. there is -- and so what we are doing in this report is sitting on methodically what the law says, how it applies to the january 6, 2021 insurrection, and why donald trump specifically is someone who engaged in insurrection and is disqualified from office, and we think, as we have set out in this report, 90 pages of evidence, drawn from the findings of the select house committee on january 6, a lot of

it drawn from court proceedings and press coverage and other kinds of evidence, and did is clear that donald trump specifically caused -- he is the one who called to washington the people who engaged in violence on jerry six, they were responding -- on january 6, they responded to his calls, he specifically tried to overturn the elections, send up this false slate of electors, and ultimately inspired this crowd to use force to halt the certification of the election and the peaceful transfer of power. host: the constitution uses the term insurrection. do we have aroblem of defining insuon and who gets to define it? guest: well, there is law as to

what an insurrection is. there's law from the time after the civil war. and we are not going into this question of donald trump cold. my organization, c.r.e.w., last year represented residence in new mexico who brought a legal action against a guy named hugh we griffin, a founder of a group called cowboys for trump, somebody who organized people to come to washington on january 6, 2021. he participated in a press tour, rounding people up for that. he was on the steps of the capitol spurring people on to go into the capitol and use force and the court ultimately found that january 6, 2021 was an insurrection for the purposes

of the 14th amendment of the constitution and found that this person, even though he was not personally violent, but wasn't somebody who organized it incited, engaged -- violent, but was somebody who organized and incited, engaged in insurrection. we think there's a strong law as to what the framers of the 14th amendment had in mind when they wrote this provision and what insurrection means today and that it applies pretty directly to the events of 2021 and to donald trump. that's ultimately going to be something for courts to decide but we think the law is strong and the facts overwhelming. host: i want to readyou a quote from harvard law professor noah feldman and get your

reaction your reaction -- get your reaction. "it is notab 14th amend does not use the word sedition. that absence could be used by trump oris lawyers to argue that even if the march on capitol was an insurrection and even if trump verbally helped bringout he was not himself 'engaged' in insurrection for the purposes of the 14th amendment ban on holy office -- on holding office." guest: i think they will make arguments in that line but i don't think they will prevail. there's caselaw from the 1860's and 70's, at least one case, the only case to consider this more recently that found that engaging in insurrection can include inciting, encouraging,

organizing, and actually, the 14th amendment itself talks about giving aid and comfort to insurrectionists, which seems to pretty directly say that you do not need to be somebody who was personally violent. in some ways, it would be kind of a perverse result if you said that kind of the people who are the driving forces behind any insurrection, people who organized it were free from consequences but the footsoldier's were the one that have to bear those consequences. it seems inconceivable as a logical matter that that is what the 14th amendment means and the law as we have analyzed it does not bear that up either. host: let's talk to viewers now. judy is first in harrisburg, illinois, independent. judy? caller: watching our capital

being destroyed january 6 was a tragedy to most americans. i was thought the president of the united states was to protect us from foreign and domestic violence. it amazes me that this man can run for president of the united states once again. this is very sad and scary. host: noah, i take it you agree with that. guest: i do. i think one of the things i was so powerful that we saw january 6, 2021, even putting aside the things donald trump said and did in the lead up to that act of violence was that, for three hours, he sat there and took no action as the capitol was being sacked in a way it had not been since the war of 1812, the civil

war. if he didn't call in the national -- he did not call in the national guard, it was only the vice president whose life was at risk that took the action . as that was happening, donald trump sent a tweet blaming mike pence and inflaming the crowd further. i think the caller is right that it is the opposite of the responsibility that any of our leaders, particularly a president, has. it is disgraceful. and the constitution says he cannot serve again. it is not about and elect or a policy preferences, it is about protecting democracy, right there in the document. host: mike in hubbard, ohio, good morning, republican. caller: good morning. the insurrection happened november 3 when the fbi coordinated with the white house to cover up the biden laptop hell, when mark zuckerberg paid

$500,000 to wisconsin for drop offices. he changed voting laws in all of the states because of covid, mail in voting around the country. the insurrection happened november 3. trump was winning on election night and then, 10 days later, all of a sudden biden wins 81 million votes more than barack obama or anyone else in u.s. history. if you think biden won fair and square, it is a complete joke. have a good day. host: what do you think? guest: i'm certainly not going to go point by point on that. a lot of the same kinds of conspiracy theories we've heard from donald trump and others but i will say that donald trump's own advisors, his own

administration, his own department of homeland security verified this was the safest and most secure election in u.s. history, that finding every branch of government -- that the results were not affected by any large-scale fraud, that the election did go to president biden. it is not sort of a question of democrats saying one thing and republicans assaying another thing. republican leaders in the position to see what happened were very clear on the fact this was a safe and secure election. i think it is unfortunate donald trump started, even before the election, spinning stories to call into doubt the results that would come. and he was very effective at that. it is i think too bad.

i think a lot of honest and patriotic americans are -- believed the lies donald trump effectively spun out. there's not really any question among those trump effectively spun who study the , democratic or republican, about what happened and the question is what we do in response to that. you have people like congresswoman liz cheney who is about as strong conservative credentials on policy as anybody who is clear on what happened and was willing to be forthright about it and was essentially had the office

for that. the stand she hand others have taken have helped us -- and others have taken have helped us to road down -- helped us draw down on the truth there. host: let's talk to chris next in tele rosa, new mexico. chris? caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i would like to thank noah and crew for removing mr. griffin from the county commission. i am in what was mr. griffin's district, and actually ran against him in the 2018 general election. mr. griffin has been in trouble in the law at various times since then.

i'm wondering what the prospects are for his appeal to the supreme court in this 14th amendment case. guest: so in mr. griffin's case, the trial court removed him from office. the new mexico supreme court upheld that on procedural grounds. mr. griffin has appealed to the supreme court. we still have not gotten an official notice of that but we understand him to have done so. i think that, based on procedural posture come in before the supreme court, it is unlikely they will take this case up at all. it is a narrow procedural ground that came to them. we do not think it is a question before them that is the kind of

thing the supreme court generally takes up. we don't know for sure and we are prepared to vigorously defend the ruling from the court below if the supreme court decides to take that up, but i do think it is unlikely. we expect the ruling to stand, it is the right ruling, and mr. griffin is, even as recently as 2022, long after the attack on the capitik -- capitol was still refusing to certify elections based on unsupported assertions. this was an appropriate result and one that shows it is an important cost to prove -- constitutional provision and it is alive and well and help protecting americans. host: our next caller is from michigan, republican. caller: first of all, i would like to say donald trump did

order national guard to the capitol. nancy pelosi was busy with her zoom crew and said we don't want that here, we have to film our perfect insurrection. anyway, as far as noah goes, his trump-to range syndrome is going on television. he actually looks kind of creepy how so anti-trump that cbs is strong over there. we will let this play out and maybe he should be charged with insurrection. guest: the fact of what happened on january 6 are well-established by congressional investigation, by department of justice investigations. i think there is not a lot of real question as to what happened there, but you do have

donald trump out there continuing to spin an alternative reality and it is difficult to get to consensus, to get to legal results when we now live in a country where there is little agreement on even what reality is. that is a challenge, but i think what we need to do is to continue to go out there every day and do our best to get into the facts, to look at the law, to apply it fairly, and that is what we do every day, we are an organization that has been very critical of democrats and republicans when they act in ways that are unethical or antidemocratic. i would hope this is a country

where an attempt to overturn an election and keep yourself in power even when you lose would be something that would be intolerable, regardless of party, whether someone from your own party or somebody from the other party. i think it has been bad to see that maybe that is less true than i would've hoped it is but i think we can get back to that place. host: you've got a question hereby taxed that says do you feel ruby freeman and shea maas, the georgia poll workers, can sue donald trump for slander? what do you think of that? guest: that's a little outside of my area of expertise. in the law, i think we just saw the lawsuit against donald trump for defamation. it is certainly an avenue that

people can pursue against somebody like trump who has been -- who has had a difficult relationship with the truth for certainly his political career but arguably his entire life and certainly for those poll workers in georgia, the kinds of harassment and threats and disruptions to their lives that they have gone through just for trying to do their job and being civil servants is appalling. i certainly hope that they are able to resume their lives, to have their reputations restored. as to the prospect of a lawsuit, i am not steeped enough in specific facts of law there to have a clear opinion about that. host: jay in mississippi,

independent, go ahead. caller: good morning. i hadn't seen you on in a while and i thought that western general was hitting but they have not hawed -- had you on the while. host: thank you, j. caller: that's a little joke but let me say this to mr. bookbinder. i call myself an independent, i am living in mississippi, a strong state no question, but i do not like some of the older type republicans. there's no such thing as a [indiscernible] anymore. they are as liberal as they come. with that being said, let me say

something, you're worried about donald trump running, he is halfway home, he has run away with the republican nomination. even many democrats don't even want biden to run, so i would be careful where i would say there's no chance of him being elected president. thank you. host: what do you think? as far as these indictments go, the timing and election? guest: we are not an elector organization and don't take positions on those who should be elected and not be elected, so we are trying not to look at this in terms of what is the effect of an action going to be on an upcoming election. what i do think it's clear is the constitution makes clear that you should not and are not

allowed to be in office if you were someone who was in a officeholder that engaged in insurrection. that is a simple act of democratic cell preservation saying somebody who attacked democracy and the foundation of our country should not be entrusted with control again. it is not from where i sit about getting democrats elected all republicans elected, it is about ensuring this crucial constitutional protection against those who are a threat to democracy, that that is not lost and this is enforced year. then we can have an election which is about whose policies and views do you agree with or do not agree with and that that election should be decided based on which policies the american people want in terms of who

controls -- she was in the presidency and who makes the decisions. . host: what is the legal mechanism for implementing this disqualification clause on the 14th amendment? would congress have to do something, whether courts, how would it work? guest: so the ballots in every state are controlled i that state and states have to have different features, but in most states, there are a couple ways to go. the secretary of state, sometimes it can be an official can sibley decide someone is disqualified. the constitution has a number of qualifications, one is to be 35 to be president and others are a natural born citizen. if a 20 nine rd runs for president, the secretary of state can say that person is not qualified and we will remove them. the same if you engage in insurrection.

that is one avenue. another is most states have a mechanism for citizens going into court and challenging my qualification of somebody running for office. ironically, it is the same procedure that people following donald trump's lead use to challenge barack obama because they asserted he was not a natural born american citizen. same thing applies here. you can go to court and ask the court to determine whether a candidate is disqualified under the 14th amendment. the court will generally hear evidence of that, make a determination, and if they find someone is disqualified and removes, it would be in one state at a time and we expect it

would ultimately move up in the court system and you might have ultimately decisions that are providing on a number of different states. host: when you say individuals consume, is your organization planning on taking this issue to court? guest: we are. we are planning to act to enforce the 14th amendment and i do not expect we will be the only ones but we will be planning to do that. >> alana is in new york, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm glad you are talking about the stuff. i wanted to double up on what you just said because i think it was really important that people remember, when trump came onto the political scene in 2012, he was spreading a conspiracy about obama not being born in this country and, when i think about the problems we have are now, i do think a lot of it ties into

the conspiracy element of the right. so when i was first able to vote after 9/11, or just around 911, the internet helped spread conspiracies about that event and i have seen that type of individual research over expert research spreading more and more as the internet has become more and more popular. i see trump, he is certainly not the cause of that but he is a symptom of society now where people do not have to rely on experts or professionals. they can see these professionals easier online in there so much more information people can find whatever they think they will agree with instead of learning about the truth. what i'm worried about is even though the organization and law

enforcement and the people trying to do the right thing based on the truth that people will choose to believe whatever is out there that they confirmed, their confirmation bias, on c-span every day, people are calling in with their own set of facts, they don't believe in media, the justice system, so how do we get back to -- i know some social media companies are trying to add clarification for false information, but the internet is so vast and there are so many media channels that you can't possibly fact-check everything. it seems like we are stuck in this situation where people are not going to leave -- because people are more willing to follow what they feel and what confirms their preconceived biases that the actual facts of the case and who is committing ethics violations, you can make up whatever you want. host: we got your point.

noel, your comments? -- noah, your comments? guest: i think it's right that one of the problems we face as a country now is there is no longer a consensus about reality, but what happens in any given set of facts and there used to be more, i don't think it was ever perfect but much more of a sense there were trusted media organizations, trusted law enforcement organizations, trusted government organizations that would look into something and say here's what happens and people kind of accepted that. there were certainly all kinds of problems with all of those systems. but there was some basic respect for investigation and findings and the truth and there is less of that now. that makes it hard to get

accountability, makes it hard on things that are happening. in january 6 20 21, there was a most universal revulsion with what had happened and a lot of agreement from republican and democrats that this was a terrible thing that happened and we needed to go in a different direction. and soon after, people went back to their corners and media portrayed it differently that other media, politicians on different sides started to spin this differently. even though we all saw what happened on our television and the findings have been clear but at a time when there is such distrust and polarization that it is very hard to reach that consensus. i think all we can do is keep on digging to get the best facts we

can, try to explain them as best we can and hope that breaks through to as many people as possible. host: sally in rowboat -- in rhode island, good money. >> good morning -- caller: good morning p and know why mr. bookbinder is so afraid of drum. if biting clearly one, why not let him run again against him? and this j six narrative is totally falling apart and was the same people that did the insurrections are the ones that were involved in the cheating of the november 3. that was an election steel and they have to try hard now to cover that up so they are going over the top to try to get trump not even to run. as far as the fake electors, john podesta was working before the 2020 election and they were going to send electors, fake

electors from michigan in case trump one. it was all planned. the fact they are trying to arrest these people is a sin and -- sorry i'm nervous, the michigan governor witmer with the kidnapping, that was a run-up to this j six which was a false flag. everybody knows it, f.b.i. cannot find the pipe bomber because they probably did it themselves. and i have one more point about challenging the electors because democrats have done it previously. nobody said they weren't doing any insurrection. because maybe the people in congress now are treasonous because they did not listen to any of the facts about some of that fraud.

host: noah? guest: there were good questions in there that i think are worth responding to, putting aside some of the factual assertions. the first question is why not let donald trump run again? and let the voters decide. i think that is something that people have thought about these issues have asked a lot. i think the answer is two things. number one, the constitution is clear on this, like if a 22-year-old run for president, it is not the right thing to say that the people decide, the constitution is clear about who can be president and the rules have kept this country in good standing for several hundred years and we should be faithful to that founding document. it also says you can't have

engaged in insurrection. beyond that, we saw what happened when donald trump ran and lost. he refused to abide by the people's vote and tried to keep himself in power anyway. there is simply no reason to believe certainly his own statements don't give up any reason to believe he would act differently this time around. so simply saying let there be a vote and take it from there, it probably is not going to protect our democracy going forward. the other point i wanted to address was a question of what about other challenges to electors in the past? there is a process in our system for challenging electors when there is an election in dispute and you can do that. you challenge them, the

challenges ruled upon, then you abide by that ruling. that is what happened in 2000, in 2015, but what happened here was different where when rulings did not go their way, then they ended violently. that is what made it an insurrection. host: stephen is next, virginia, independent. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. when i learned trump could run for president again, i was surprised not because of january 6 but because he was already voted out it i assumed if you are president and the country decides your time is up, that means you need to make room for someone else. is there a particular reason for that? shouldn't the fact trump was kicked out disqualify him by default? host: stephen, the constitution

does give people two terms, so if noah is ready we can give him a chance to respond to that. guest: sorry, i'm having a little bit of an audio issue here. host: can you hear me right now? guest: very faintly. i apologize to this. trying earbuds. host: that's ok. guest: now i can hear you. sorry about that. host: so let's just move onto the next call, maria in sheridan , wyoming, democrat. caller: my name is maria, can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. we can hear you. caller: thank you. i voters wondered, is there any chance of expelling donald trump from our country? maybe sending him somewhere else? we are never going to get rid of this guy until we get rid of him. maybe our country needs to get

rid of him. we brought other leaders into our country and may be we can find out if there is something in the constitution nor something in the law where we can expel him and his family out of our country. thank you. i will take your answer. thank you. host: exile, any chance? guest: i think we try to focus on the accountability measures that are in the law and constitution. one of those as we talked about his the 14th amendment which says if you engage in insurrection, you cannot serve in office anymore. it is not a punishment, it is just a qualification. another form of accountability is the justice system. we now have these multiple indictments of donald trump, and those will run their course. if donald trump is convicted, if

the facts and law support a conviction, i believe the facts are very strong, then there are sentences the law provides for that could be prison time, can be other conditions of a conviction. i think exile is probably not one of them. i'm not familiar with the provision in the law that would push us in that direction but i believe ultimately there will be appropriate consequences. host: noah bookbinder, the president of citizens for responsibility and ethics in washington. nice to have you on the program. thanks for joining us. guest: nice to be here. host: coming up, more of your calls. we go back to our question, what is your top new story of the week. you can start calling now. we will be right back. ♪

announcer: sunday on q&a, felix salmon, officer of the phoenix -- author of the phoenix economy, talks about the long-term social and economic impacts of the covenantee pandemic. some of it is surprisingly positive. >> the pandemic gave us this yolo theme throughout the economy and people are really following their dreams and creative. creativity creates companies and wealth. i think that is one of the big reasons why i am so optimistic is i see opportunity of

creativity more broadly distributed. people anywhere in the world, as long as they have an internet connection can change the planet and the way they have not been able to before. i think we are only at the beginning of seeing huge opportunities that were engendered by us being forced to take another look at our lives and say how do i want to live this. announcer: felix salmon with his book, the phoenix economy, on c-span q&a. you can listen to q&a and our podcasts on the free c-span now app. announcer: nonfiction book lovers, c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers on the afterwards podcast and on q&a hear wide-ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others making things happen. book notes bus episodes for the

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matters in the u.s. are often met with active violence in his book american white lash. he is interviewed by columbia university's gelati thomas. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2, find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org. -- booktv.org. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. almost half-hour tell then to the program a tonic like him eastern, we will be taking your calls. it is your top new story of the week. let's start with james in et hartford, connecticut, democrat, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span for having the program on where people can honestly get to hear on their own rather -- here on their own rather than the new spin.

the topic from the whistleblowers, it seems like sour grapes. our government and country has been running on influence and people making decisions. they do not agree with the decisions their supervisors made, then they can voice it, they have the right to voice it. the influence it does is damaging to the country. i think you have to get all of your information before you start talking about what the end result is. thank you. host: tom is in virginia, republican, good morning. caller: thank you. i could not agree more with your -- i am a staunch conservative, leaning a little more independently because am frustrated with the parties but i cannot agree more with the democrat caller that just called in.

thank god for c-span. you guys at least share the message of both sides. top new story i think, and to comment on the whistleblower thing, people need to understand, when whistleblowers are doing it on their own initiative, i think the two irs whistleblowers were -- and all of the fbi whistleblowers that have come forward are revealing something that the american people had suspected for a long time but have not had the people within the organizations haven't had -- i work in the organization, they have not felt safe coming out and airing this dirty laundry of this influence peddling and bureaucratic influence. i think people need to listen closely to the irs. it is absolute evidence of a two tiered justice system.

i think it is the government protecting our political leaders from foreign influence and -- but the main job is all of this anti-trump lawsuits and things like that with the conspiracy potentially against trump but i think the left is making a mistake in that the right will probably nominate donald trump whether he is in a prison cell or not. because they do not trust them anymore. the fbi director has, and said it, the dni director came out and said it, and the american people are losing faith in their government. you've got american families who won't let their kids serve in the military anymore because they do not trust the u.s. government. thus the reason going after trump i think and all of the supporters of trump is a bad idea because it just inflames them to have less and less faith

and confidence in the legitimacy and efficacy and the just nature of their government because the government is weaponized against conservatives and it is true, this stuff is all just proof of that -- and this stuff is proof, this is all just proof of that. host: i got to move on, i got your point. clark in florida, independent. go ahead. caller: thank you. i am independent when i vote sometimes but i'm concerned the big new story is that we have had the highest temperatures throughout the world in the past 100,000 years and there will not be any governments or any political parties to vote for if we let the earth die. host: ok. richard in oceanside,

california, democrat, good morning. caller: hi. host: hello. caller: can you hear me? host: yes i can. caller: my top story is the indictment of donald trump. mostly i called to leave a message for my republican friends. i think the republican friends i have and everybody else that bodes republican needs to consider what happened in europe between 1920 and 1940, when the government was completely fractured because they believed somebody that wanted to destroy the government and did so and started world war ii in europe. they believe the leader's emotional appeal to their senses , they don't listen to the facts, they don't know history, i would advise the republican voters to consider the history of europe because i think the

united states is on the same path and we are in real trouble if donald trump it selected again. you cannot vote for donald trump. i was a republican but i would not vote for donald trump, i voted for nixon, voted for the mayor, i voted for ronald reagan , i don't dislike republicans. i don't like the way former president trump's way of doing business. i think the indictment is appropriate and hope it happens. host: a couple programming notes for you this morning, there's a conversation on the importance of u.s. alliances in the end of pacific region with the defense and state of -- state department officials hosted by the brookings institution. you can watch that live at 10:30 a.m. eastern, on c-span now, our mobile video app, or on c-span.org. also at 12:00 today, a group of

appellate attorneys looks at recent u.s. supreme court decisions including rulings on student loan forgiveness. -- forgiveness, affirmative action, and social media speech. it's hosted by the george mason and standing scalia law school -- anniston and scully a law school. you can watch that on c-span, c-span now and on c-span.org. taking your calls for the next 20 minutes until the end of the program, stephen is in kentucky, republican. caller: yes. thank you. yes your former person you had on there, he was talking about the insurrection and he left out very important details. number one, donald trump, before the insurrection happened, told the people in washington, who gathered in washington to protest to go home and to be

peaceful. that is on videotape. number two, donald trump contacted nancy pelosi and asked her to send troops to protect the capitol. she did not do it. he contacted the mayor of washington and asked her to request troops, she did not do it. other interesting things that were left out of the insurrection investigation was all of these capitol police men ushering people into the white house and these individuals were never brought before the insurrection committee to testify about their ushering into the white house. i mean into the capitol. thirdly, who are the real insurrectionists?

it is the democrats trying to turn this into a socialist country. it is the insurrection from the inside, which is being covered up. thank you. host: mike is in iowa, independent, good morning. caller: how are you doing? how are you? host: good. caller: let's talk about the $5 million biting got and $5 million his son got. why isn't that guy covering that? the previous because, why isn't he taking -- not making biden run? you want to talk about treason, that is treason. that is treason, sweetie. it is ridiculous you put these people on here and they don't cover both sides of the coin, they cover the side that is about them. donald trump was not a perfect president but he was the most perfect president we had since ronald reagan.

bottom line, and of conversation. one more thing, the woman in wyoming, can we expel her from the country because she is as stupid as a box of rocks. host: brenda is in indiana, benson vania, democrat. -- pennsylvania, democrat, good money. caller: i want to talk about the possible indictment on january 6 and i would like to point out what happened on january 6 2021 could have very easily happened january 2017. trump supporters want to conveniently forget the rally after rally in 2016 donald trump condemned the electoral college, he condemned it, rally after rally. he said it was rigged, it was unfair, it needed to be done away with, it should be one person and one vote. "washington journal" had at least one call in show on the

electoral college. every trump supporters said it should be done away with. days before the 2016 election, donald trump stepped up to the microphone and he said if crooked hillary clinton gets in the white house by the rigged, unfair, electoral college system , i'm not sure i will accept the results. so out of his own mouth he was never the duly elected president. out of his own mouth. yet hillary clinton conceded the election and democrats did not storm the capitol in 2017. even though out of donald trump's own mouth he won by the rigged electoral college system. we fast-forward to 2020. all summer, donald trump said the only way i could lose this election is if it is stolen from us, if it is rigged.

well 2020, because of the pandemic, was reported to be the highest mail-in ballot in election ever and it was that time that donald trump's million dollar campaign donor, louis dejoy, postmaster general, he decided it was a great time to start dismantling and discarding mail sorting machines. during a pandemic when mail-in ballot in was supposed to be at record highs. donald trump's campaign donor decided now would be a great time to start dismantling mail sorting machines. so maybe that is why it took so long to process mail-in ballots. g donald, try to cheat much? host: some news this morning from axios, headline, trump classified documents trial set for may 2024, florida district

judge today set the trial date in the classified documents case for may 20, 2020 four, according to a court filing. the trial will likely begin after the republican nominee in the crowded gop field crowned hand as the general election is heating up. the date comes after clash between the department of justice and trump's legal team over the timing of the trial with the ex-president pushing for it to take place after the 2024 election. ralph in maryland -- new york, republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been listening and you had a gentleman on, and just like one of the other comments was about echoing fairness to investigate both sides. my question to you would be if

say desantis wins because everybody does not like trump, if he was to go after an -- and investigate financial dealings of bush or biden, etc., is that a legality? should we weaponize what they did to trump with the fbi? you wonder why there is no trust in government anymore, every agency is proven to undermine a conspiracy to overthrow trump because he is not in the swamp. thank you for your call and have a great day. host: al is in oregon, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to stay three things, number one, we are a founded republic, we are not a democracy. number two, an insurrection would be people with weapons. none of those people had weapons.

that was a riot. number three, the election system was rigged, it is rigged for the democrats with the media and the government conspiring against trump. that is all i have to say, thank you. host: william in elizabeth, tennessee, democrat. caller: i heard this morning that tony bennett passed away and i want to know -- i want them to know that americans send their condolences. host: that was right, he was 96 years old. tony bennett has passed away. and gray is in his story a, new york. independent, good -- historia, new york. independent, good money. caller: i'm confused with both republicans and democrats. as an independent, i vote for the person i believe is doing the right thing and, so far,

both republicans and democrats have totally lost. we need somebody with young and fresh blood like maybe desantis. i think the whole political system is so corrupt right now that we need a whole new version of what this country was built on. thank you. host: and jerry is in new jersey, republican. caller: good morning. i was just wondering, when biden was on tv and he said i am holding that $1 billion until they fire the prosecutor, this was the prosecutor that was investigating charisma -- burisma that hunter was on and he got fired within five hours of that. isn't that a quid pro quo? especially since his own son was

getting money from them. i looked up online and the fbi said it was not an insurrection. i guess because there were no weapons found there was no insurrection? yet they keep saying insurrection. i also tried to find out who the five cops where that they keep saying were killed. there is not one name i can find. my final question, do you think the voting and trump might have one of the fbi had not hidden and lied about the laptop for five years? it is six years and they are still investigating the laptop? i do not understand that yet cocaine is found inside of the white house and two weeks they closed the whole investigation? something is not right here. it does not seem -- and when you

are vice president like when biden was vice president, how could he get top-secret, sensitive papers when he was never even the presint? he was the vice president, he was a senator, yet he has got 1800 boxes of sensitive, tosecret papers. none of this is making much sense. but i do know that -- host: to answer your question about the january 6 -- the new york times does have an article about -- it says here these of the five people who died in the capitol riot's, and it was published on january 11 2021 and updated october 13, 2022. so you can take a look at that if you would like to see that. lee is in southportland, good morning. caller: good morning. i have two things to say.

one is trump never wrote a book about his presidency so i googled it to find out that the top five publishers will not touch him with a 10 foot pole because he will not tell the truth. my second point is i read where the saudis bought land in arizona and are growing alfalfa there to ship to the kingdom for their cattle to feed because it is against the law to grow alfalfa because of the water usage. now they want, they have eight wells drilled and want to drill two more which i read they put a stop to it but i want to know how that happened. how come the saudis are pumping our water in arizona and i would like for c-span to have someone on there to explain this to the american people. i have not heard of it before and i watch the news all the time so that is what i have to say. host: this is an article from the washington post about that that says how a saudi firm

tapped a gusher of water in drought stricken arizona, lacks rules let the foreknown company pump water from the state land to grow alfalfa for the kingdom cattle all -- after almost a decade the deal is in jeopardy. james is in kingston, new hampshire, independent, good morning. >> hi, mimi, happy friday. i have five or six points but maybe we can sell to brian lamb, may be the courtrooms and last terms, maybe also. my third point would be the news media. to the american people, the news media really is our believe like the third branch of our government. my fourth point, mimi, i know we need to hear but both sides whether democrat or republican and all the moments, if the

parties on either side are guilty, let's prosecute and move forward. i would like to know what is going to be done for we the american people on health care, our seniors, our workers, our young children in this country and my sixth point, the song, a great song, get together. i wanted to get that out and brian lamb is a great man for the foresight of bringing c-span to the american people. thank you and have a great weekend. >> jack is in warren, ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a couple questions for you and i would like for you to help me out. i see that your hand on the trigger over there. host: nope. these are my hands right here, jack. [laughter] caller: there you go.

you are looking really nice today too. ok, what i really want to say, i'm a foundational black america, which means i am born here, i'm not a people of color. we are wanting to know why you guys don't have any shows on reparation's for lineage-based foundational black americans. we want people to come on your show to represent people like me, like dr. claw anderson. if you guys would invite those type of people instead of having people like larry elder, roman martin, they don't represent us as black americans. i would like to see if you guys can have a show on reparation's and anti-hate crime bill, wondering why everybody has protection except black america. we fought for this country in every war there has been. if you can ask your executive to invite dr. claude anderson on

there, we would like to show you guys where we come from, you will know our true history because he has got it all. host: i hear you. we did do a program on reparation's with some reporters from the christian science monitor who have been looking at that. so you can take a look at that. i remember hosting the program. fill in colorado, independent. go ahead. all these colors calling in about the insurrection not happening, we watched it on tv, we listened to the investigation, there were not any democrats testifying against trump and what happened, it was all republicans, people from his cabinet, and all of his cronies were testifying against him about what happened yet these people are calling in don't believe it. they did a survey and found out

what the hardest thing for a maggot supporter is, the third grade. thanks. host: tanya is a democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling because it seems no one on the republican side is seeing that jared received $2 billion from saudis after the election and all of the trump contracts they were able to receive in china shows trump is a grifter for money. takes all of this money from poor people when he is supposed to be rich. what is he giving to them? host: and roger in pilot mountain caller: thank you for taking my

call. back in the day when people had insurrection they took axes, anything to fight with. these people didn't have any guns to fight with. if they had them it would have been a bloody battle. this was nancy pelosi's way to get him out of office. host: in real quick we have bob from michigan. caller: you had a caller from rhode island that claim to be an expert on michigan presidential results. here's what happened. the constitution of the state allows for a recount if the final tally is within 1%.

he lost by 6% in 2020 and yet, the governor ordered a recount, multiple recounts statewide, area wide, regions, districts and the final result is the discrepancy was less than 100 votes. that's all i am trying to say. host: that is all the time we have a washington journal. thank you for joining us and we will be back again tomorrow morning. we will see you then. ♪ >> coming up today defense state

officials talk about allnces in the and pacific region. that is live at the brookings institute. at noon, a group of appellants reviewed the most recent term which includes affirmate action and free spch on social media. at 1:30 president biden is expected to outne the risks posed by artificial intelligence. you can access the free c-span video opera go online at c-span.org. c-span now is a free video app with your unfiltered view of what is happening in washington. keep up with the days events with live streams, you can also

stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information plus a variety of compelling podcast. c-span now is available on apple or google play. c-span now your front row seat to washington. sunday on q&a, axios chief felix sabin talks about the economic impact of the covid-19 pandemic. >> the pandemic gave us streams.

and creativity creates art, commerce and wealth. that is one of the reasons i am so optimistic is that i see opportunity and creativity more broadly distributed. people anywhere in the world can really change the planet and ways they have not been able to before. we are only at the beginning of seeing the opportunities that were engendered by us being forced to take another look at our lives and how do you want to live this? >> felix salmon on q&a. you can listen to our podcast on our free c-span cap. -- app.