coming washington journal, yous and comments. en, reviewing this week's federal open market committee meetings in the possibility of another interest rke. we will talk with adam andrzejewski about his research into wnd abuse in government spending. also, a discussion on climate change policies and recent extreme weather patterns with bob inglis and david kieve, president of environmental defense action fund. washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning, it is tuesday, july 25. the topic today is inflation.

it is top of mind as federal reserve officials meet today and tomorrow to consider another interest rate hike. president joe biden says his administration has been good for the economy, put prices down and more people finding jobs. we want to know how you see this playing out in your personal finances. has inflation had an effect? are things getting better or worse? call us and tell us what you think. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, call us at (202) 748-8001. independents, your line is (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you live. you can find us on facebook.com/cspan and on twitter and instagram @cspanwj.

we are going to kick things off by chatting with brendan peterson, he is a financial services reporter for punch bowl news. good morning. guest: good morning. host: thank you for joining us. we know that federal reserve is meeting today and tomorrow. what are analysts expecting from the meeting? guest: we are expecting a 25 basis point hike. this is pretty much in line with how things have been going for the past 16 months or so. the federal reserve has been embarking on a historic interest rate raising campaign to bring down inflation. we paused last time, economists expect the fed to hike again. the real question looking forward is what the fed does after this. officials have projected they want to hold interest rates

higher, rather than raising them every time. the question will become how long do we hold interest rates as high as they are? if the fed hikes tomorrow, we are looking at an interest rate between 5.2 5% and 5.5% of the federal level. host: we hear a lot about this softly ending the federal reserve is trying to create or accomplish. what does that mean, and how does that impact rate hikes? guest: something you might hear folks say on business cable and in general is the phrase immaculate disinflation. what that means is the fed successfully raising rates and ringing down inflation at the same time without seeing a significant increase in unemployment or other metrics of economic pain.

raising rates usually has a cost. it has been correlated with lost jobs and higher levels of unemployment historically. that has not happened at this time around in large part because the labor market has been so tight for so long. if we achieve a soft landing, that means we get lower inflation without losing a whole bunch of jobs. i think we are a little ways away from declaring victory on that. inflation is a long process to bring down and the real friction of the fed interest rate in the economy is going to take place over the next several months, if not years, as we keep rates elevated. host: speaking of the elevated rates, what is the impact on consumers if the fed does move forward with hiking interest rates today and tomorrow? guest: in the short term, i do not think consumers will feel

that much difference. we are kind of in matter of degree territory. a lot of fed officials have said we are feeling comfortable with where we are at, some fed officials want to push us past the 5.5 percentage point and get us closer to 6%. in general, a lot of the effects of higher interest rates have been moving their way through the economy over the last several months. consumers will probably see higher interest rates on various types of loans, like mortgages and credit card payments. you might already be experiencing that. other ways will be harder for regular consumers to gauge. for example, big companies will probably be borrowing less money as interest rates get higher. that might translate down the line to fewer opportunities or smaller pools of investment. in general, with rates already

being so elevated, i think today's hike would just be a little on top, rather than a significant event. host: testing your historical knowledge, i am curious -- he said between five point 25% and 5.5% could be the interest rate after this week. people like me who are not experts, we do not know how that compares. ? ? is that really high historically is this kind of normal? is it hard to compare? that is my question. guest: it is not that hard to compare. part of the issue is consumer expectations. for the last decade or so, interest rates have been really low, especially coming out of the financial crisis. we are talking about interest rates that were at or below zero

, which is free money. because inflation has been so stubbornly low over the past decade up until after the pandemic, rates stayed pretty low. my adult lifetime, i am not used to seeing interest rates this high. that said, we saw much higher interest rates in the 70's and 80's. famously, paul volker, the previous chair of the federal reserve really had to campaign against inflation. had to crank up interest rates to stamp it out after inflation was stubbornly high for much of the 70's and 80's. interest rates were in the teens, i want to say. i do not know the exact number off the top of my head. people paying out for 15% mortgages, which we are getting there in the housing market, but

we are not anywhere near that level any meaningful sense. it has definitely been worse in the past, but expectations are everything and interest rates have gotten higher in a short period of time. host: let us talk about the political impact on president joe biden. he has been talking up the economy, painting a pretty positive picture. but one of the political stakes for president biden as we know consumers are still worried about inflation? guest: it is a tricky dance, running for reelection as the president when you had an economy where voters pretty widely agreed it is not the most comfortable thing in the world right now, but everything is getting better. when you are talking about the president and economy, it is everything right now.

until the economy craters out or unemployment starts to go up, stock market, any of the little metrics we like to talk about -- republicans do not actually have all that much to run against biden on. they have made a big stink about inflation and the economy for good reason, because republicans know people care about that, because they do. as long as things are getting better, those attacks will carry less water. that is part of the reason why we are seeing so many republicans leaning into cultural war fights over lgbtq issues, what is happening in schools, things like that. without the economy, republicans do not have as much to fall back on and that could be a defining characteristic of the 2024 presidential race. host: before i let you go, the million-dollar question. just in your analysis, are we still at risk of inflation?

you said it is too early to claim victory for a soft landing. what indicators are you looking for? guest: unemployment, certainly, is the big question on everyone's mind. i do not think anyone would be surprised if unemployment goes up a little bit over the next several months. the fed itself has projections on the books saying by the end of the year, they expect it to go up enough that potentially millions of people could be out of work in this country. we are a big country, one million is not the largest number. it is significant. losing a job in the u.s. is one of the most disastrous things that could happen to you as a personal-finance matter. the other thing is wages. people want to know that their wages are keeping up or exceeding what we are seeing in inflation. under the biden economy, low and middle income workers have seen

income rise as historically fast rates. they are closing the inequality gap with the upper thresholds of our economy. upper to upper middle-class americans have certainly seen their income go up. they have not seen it go up as fast as low and middle income folks, so they are feeling the economy in a different way than the lower end middle-class, which is always been the case. but the shoe is on the other foot this time, so that is what we are tracking in terms of quality of life as well as with the macro unemployment rate. host: that has been great information you shared with us this morning. again, plentiful news financial services reporter brendan peterson, thank you again for joining us. we are back to the phone lines, because our question this morning is what is the impact of inflation on your personal finances? do you see things getting better

or worse, and how is your household impacted by inflation? the numbers to call, democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. include your name and where you live. we want to hear from you. first up is john all the way in hawaii on the democratic line. you were up early to chat with us, tell us what you think. caller: hi. about inflation -- i do not think it is getting any better where i live. it just seems like everything is

pretty much stabilized pretty high. i do not see anything going down over here. that is pretty much what i have got to say. it does not look good for the democrats. they own this. i voted for the democrats, i was expecting way more than what is coming out from what they are passing. not good at all. host: when you say the impact, where do you see it most where you live? is it the grocery store? tell me more about the impact you are seeing. caller: absolute the grocery store, going out to dinner, even getting fast food. gas prices are crazy. houses are unbelievable, rent.

pretty much all across-the-board, every single thing the average american needs to do to survive every day. i expected more for the democrats, i am telling you. i hope they can get their act together, because they promised a lot and it is not happening. host: let us go to kentucky now on the republican line, go ahead. caller: i agree with the last caller, i agree with everything he says. yesterday, has been takes his lunch to work every day. we use aluminum foil and baggies. i told him yesterday, aluminum foil has gotten so expensive, bring this home. let us wash and reuse it. host: interesting. so aluminum foil even, appreciate your call this morning.

greg in north carolina, independent line. caller: that man u had on a few minutes ago was saying how things are getting better. the problem is, it does not play out in reality. when you go to the grocery store, prices of food are still high. a box of cereal is six dollars. with the biden administration is saying and what is really happening to people every day, it is a contradiction. whatever they are saying politically, people do not see it in their everyday lives. it will be interesting to see how things play out in 2024. host: let us go to alabama, larry is calling on the democratic line.

caller: hello, how are you doing my favorite host? host: good morning. caller: my opinion, based on what i heard from the gentleman, they guest you had on the show, somewhat agree with him. one part that is not the president's fault inflation is going on. if you look back when former president george bush was president, the interest rate was so high it was almost 11%. you have the federal reserve, run by jerome powell raising interest rates. for those who got credit cards, those who got a loan, these credit companies and banks, they

are the ones who make money off of the working poor. the rich folk get money to spend when they raise interest rates. it is not the president. every time jerome powell raised interest rates, he is raising it on the people paying the taxes. not these big companies. i was listening to your guest, i guess some people do not care. it is not the president, people. host: we appreciate your call this morning. speaking of president biden, i want to show some video. this is the president in philadelphia last week, where he gave a defense economic agenda, they started to use the term bidenomics. he is talking about that and its impact on the economy, including

inflation. here is a portion from last thursday. [video clip] >> inflation has slowed every single month for the last 12 months. the lowest point of inflation, the lowest point in over two years. the u.s. has the lowest inflation rate of any major economy in the world. less than two thirds of what it was a year ago, down from 9% to 3%. it is going to go down lower. at the same time, pay for low-wage workers has gone up at a faster paced, wages are growing faster than inflation. a lot of working folks are beginning to have a little bit of breathing room. job satisfaction in america is at a 36 year high.

we have got more work to do, people are coming off the sidelines to work. the working age is the highest it has been in 20 years, including every single day under my predecessor. it is not an accident, it is my economic plan in action. host: that was president joe biden speaking in philadelphia on what he calls -- what his administration has coined bidenomics. we want to hear more from you, how inflation has impacted your personal finances. democrats, your line (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002.

we are going to the independent line in connecticut. you are on. christine, are you with us? christine, last call. we are going to nancy -- let us see here. let's try nancy in florida. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make an observation that what i see around town's middle-class people spending all kinds of money. you can go to a restaurant, it is packed. $29 a meal, for a family of four you feed to teenage kids.

the restaurants are full. people are spending money. my life is good, i retired, i paid off my house and car. my social security and pension pay for the good lifestyle that i have. host: appreciate your call this morning. the next caller is in kentucky, john, independent line. caller: yes, i was looking at the airports, full of people taking vacations. they are spending money, they've got money. -- sorry, i muted my phone. host: you are fine, keep going. caller: we have floods on one side of the united states,

droughts on the others, tornadoes, hurricanes. i am trying to understand -- when they have fireworks, people spend thousands on fireworks. they are buying furniture. the food is high because of the war. the russians are holding up the grains, one third of the world gets their food from there. everything is blocked off, that is where it is coming from. it is not from biden. if it was from biden -- basically, they need to study up on what they are talking about. host: let's go to carolyn on the

democratic line from charlotte, north carolina. caller: i think it is the republicans whole agenda to attack biden's economic plan, it has been pretty good. i think that most of the corporations are causing high prices at the grocery store, wherever. it is advantageous for them to raise the prices. they are making record profits while people are suffering and nobody is looking at the back end, they are looking at the front end and blaming biden. biden has a great economic plan. as far as the war in ukraine, it was advantageous to attack ukraine because it is the breadbasket of the world and he was really wanting donald trump to be in power. he did not attack under donald

trump, he attacked under biden because he knew would create a world economic crisis. these people need to read. host: next up on the republican line, rick in tennessee. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am not here to play the blame game or anything. all the parties have been a party to this type of thing, all down through history. the biggest thing of inflation, the reason that prices are high is mainly because of fuel costs. it costs extra money to haul everything across the country. i was a truck driver for a while and a contract there outside that type of business. every time the fuel prices went up, supplies went up and we had to go up on our prices.

biden did stop some of the pipelines when he went into office. i do not know what the thinking was behind that, i'm sure they have some kind of reason they thought was legitimate. but the real crux of the problem is that fuel prices are so high. host: trina is next in indianapolis, democratic line. caller: where i have a problem is none of the businesses have stopped -- people are still out shopping and taking trips and everything. if you go out, the stores are still full, the trucks are still going. amazon trucks are everywhere,

pulling up to people's homes. fedex truck's are rolling and people are shopping, taking trips. the airports are full. when you see all of the planes, people are full in the airports. that's why people are complaining when flights are getting stalled, they are spending money. we understand that prices are higher, but the large corporations, they are making huge profits. so i agree with the president. bidenomics is truly working. i do not understand what the problem is. people are making higher incomes , it is working. things are from the middle working out, just like the president is saying. i agree the democrats are doing their work, it is hard of congress is not working together. those constituents higher

congress to do their jobs and they are not doing with the constituents vote them in for. it is ridiculous. thank you. host: let us go to the republican line, george in ohio. caller: good morning. just a couple quick points on inflation. i actually do not think this inflation situation really is joe biden's fault. but it is his problem and i do not think he really understands it too much. he is claiming victory, claiming that biden not makes has caused inflation to go lower. but really it is higher interest rates that's causing cpi to go down. the money supply has shrunk year-over-year since probably last july.

that has caused cpi to go down, but it is only due to higher interest rates. i do not think a lot of people really understand that. once we start lowering interest rates again, which the federal do, once they start lowering interest rates again, inflation will probably go in the double digits in people are not ready for it. we are living off of credit cards, people are paying for groceries with credit cards, paying for gas to get to work with credit cards. that bill is going to come through sooner or later and we will not be able to afford it. i think the worst of it has yet to happen. people really are not prepared, they are saying how great everything is, how everyone is shopping. but we will have to pay the piper sooner or later. host: i want to bring up an

article we've been talking about the federal reserve meeting this week, this is today's wall street journal. fed has yet to declare victory on inflation. i'm going to read down in the article, starting in the second paragraph. it says some fed policymakers and economists are concerned the easing in inflation will be temporary. they see inflation slowdown is long overdue after the fading of pandemic related shocks that pushed up rent and the price of transportation. they worry underlying price pressures could persist, requiring the fed to lift rates higher and hold them there for longer. other economists say that thinking ignores signs of current economic slowing that will gradually subdue price pressures. they argue inflation will slow enough to push

inflation-adjusted interest rates higher in the coming months. that would provide additional monetary restraint, even if this weeks rate increases the last of the current tightening cycle. that is today's wall street journal as the federal reserve prepares to meet. i want to read a few of the responses we are receiving on social media to today's question , what is the impact of inflation on personal finances? andrea writes on facebook immense. the cost of food, even staples like milk and eggs, is obscenely expensive, especially for those of us on fixed income. so glad my kids are grown because i cannot imagine buying groceries for a family. dining out has become a luxury since groceries and gasoline are expensive.

i fear this has become the way it is going to remain for forever. josie ward on facebook says i am making a lot more than i was pre-pandemic. inflation has not been bad for me. it has been hard on retirees with fixed income. everyone in the workforce should be making more money. also on facebook, the car i was going to buy back in march is now more than double its original monthly payment. i needed time to save for a down payment, but the fed raise the rate, which was 2.5%. it is well over 5%. i will read one more from facebook, tammy writes that housing costs are the big problem. i am disabled after surviving a ruptured brain aneurysm in 2001,

my social security covers my rent, electricity and phone, that is it. i work part-time as a cashier so i can buy shampoo and toilet paper. i am in my 60's and paying 80% of my income for housing. it is ridiculous. we want to hear from you, what is the impact of inflation on your personal finances, and do you see things getting better or worse? democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. we are going to go to the independent line now, michael is calling from buffalo, new york. caller: thank you. i am an average person, i do like to use analogies for people to try to understand things. inflation is because of

government overspending. a year ago when democrats decided to put out over $2 trillion of spending and printed all that extra money, that drove up inflation like crazy. like gaining 300 pounds in the matter of a couple months. biden says everything is getting better, it is only getting better because people are losing 10 pounds a month, but they are still morbidly obese. inflation is not getting better. they still have not lost all the way they put on a year ago when you spend almost $2 trillion printing money. the government cannot just print that money and not expect inflation to go up. they say this plan is working, it is not working at all.

you need to lose a lot more than 10 pounds a month. the government needs to stop spending so much money. if you do not stop spending money, you have to lose the weight you gained a year ago. you are never going to catch up. democrats want new sending money over to ukraine to fight a war against russia. you cannot keep renting money and expect inflation to come down. host: we got your point this morning, appreciate your call. next in chicago, democratic line. caller: yes, i am calling and because all of you guys are talking, but no one is addressing the main issue. the feds are getting ready to roll out a fed coin, a digital coin. this is not no conspiracy theory. every last one of us calling today will be crying on your

knees praying to the good lord. this coin is going to take away our freedoms and it is going to be sad. joe biden, trump, there is no physical man going to save us from the chaos that is coming. i am glad you are addressing the situation about inflation. i am 69 years old, i have seen the value of the dollars evaluated and the dollar has collapsed. after the fed coin is rolled out , all of our 401(k)s and bank accounts will go in the back -- host: where did you hear about the fed coin? caller: from experts, intel. i am surprised you have not heard about it. we have guys that are expert bankers, i do my homework.

i am a born-again believer in christ jesus -- host: we appreciate your call. david in massachusetts calling on the republican line, what are your thoughts this morning? caller: good morning, thank you. i love when you are host. what i wanted to say as to the caller from buffalo, my undergraduate degree is in economics and everything we have seen the past 15 years flies in the face of what we used to be taught in economics. money was free, corporations and billionaires got richer than ever. the idea we spent so much money the past couple years that now we are fat and inflation is high is a joke. inflation is high because we raise the rates so much and we are doing that to punish labor. you see a lot of labor action going on, a unionization

movement. the government response is we want people to be desperate and take low wages, so let's keep prices high. companies are making record profits, do not get it twisted. they are making more money than ever. prices are high so they can make big profits. this is late stage capitalism 101. this is very basic what is going on right now. we watch you at work, the woman that called earlier and said i've got my pension and we are doing well, they turned to me instead of what is a pension? that says a lot about what young people are feeling people -- are feeling. host: i want to bring up some research, this is a chart

created by the pew research center based on polling on inflation. the difference in perspective between people of different political leanings. here is the chart, it talks about the partisan differences in assessing many of the nation's problems. when you look at the response on inflation, this is the percentage who say it is a very big problem in the country today. 52% of those who identify as democrats are leaning democratic say inflation is a very big problem, compared to 70% of those who are republican orlean republican. overall is 65%. i want to scroll down just a little bit. this is overall on the deficit,

70% of respondents said they believe the yearly deficit will continue to grow. that is a large number, including a majority of those who identify as democrats or democratic leaning. here is one more chart i want to show, it is about the edge. respondents said they agree with on addressing issues, so on economic policy, about 30% of respondents said they either agree or strongly agree with the democratic party position on economic policy. 42% said they agree more with the republican party. 30% to 42% giving the republican party more of an edge when it

goes to economic policy. these are charge based on polling and research by the pew research center. we want to continue hearing from you on the question of the impact of inflation on your personal finances. before we go back to the phone lines, i want to read some of the responses we have received on twitter. after bush was elected in 2000, interest rates were at 7%. i was building houses and people were buying them. 5% is not as bad. since we have a democrat for president, that is all republicans will focus on. the inflation rate is low, so is unemployment. there is no reason for the fed to raise interest rates further, that only benefits banks and credit card companies, and guess

who gets to pay more? do not put bankers in charge of the fed. also on twitter, under the previous president, companies had basically free money and still got a tax cut. one more response from facebook. cost-of-living caught up to $15 an hour real quick, didn't it? maybe if we raise production costs more, prices will go down. again, our question for you, what is the impact of inflation on your personal finances? democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. s independent -- independents (202) 748-8002. what is here now from john in springfield, ohio on the independent line. caller: thanks to c-span for what you do.

i am a little nervous, i am a first time caller. i think inflation is on account of the cost of wages rising, so products have to raise to make money and also i think the fuel we are buying fuel from other countries and not producing it and getting a little ahead of ourselves. we have got to maintain our fuel. i think with the fuel costs and everything to move goods and

such, hopefully we can get everything straightened out. we live in the greatest country, the united states. host: thank you so much for being a first-time c-span collar, you did great. let us go to ed and, maryland, democratic line. caller: good morning. what we should explain is what the economy is, it is how much money we are spending. good economy, we are a lot of money. that economy, we are not spending any. when people wanted $15 an hour to do unskilled labor, that increased cost. the real reason of inflation is simply capitalism. the unemployment number is low, meaning a lot of people are making money, meaning they can

raise prices to what people are going to pay because of demand. the only way that we as consumers affect inflation is by collectively lowering demand. if we all pick a week where we are not buying gas this week, everybody across-the-board, the gas price will go down. if we are not buying eggs this week, the egg price will go down. consumers can control inflation. it is not joe biden, it is not the republican congress. it is not any of that. it is based on supply and demand. if we could collectively choose we are going to demand this week , we could collectively control prices. host: appreciate your call. let us go to montana, darlene is on the independent line.

caller: good morning. it is really hard right now with all the inflation going on, people who are really poor and on government assistance are really struggling. the ceos are just wanting to make a cartel almost, they get richer and we get poorer. why can't we put a cap on that? call the a socialist or whatever, but we could have a cap on prices they are trying to set. while we are at it, we should have never been like in afghanistan, because that raised money for a war when we could have been using it for people at home and could have prevented the recession back in 2008. it is hard for everybody, that is probably why some people are turning to trump, i am sad to say. it is hard for them, they are

struggling. they think trump is going to be my guy, or ron desantis. i do not think they want to go to ron, but people are scared and tired, so they go with the guy who they think will fix it but is not. it is hard for people right now. you have to show your neighbor compassion, talk to your neighbor. that is how we will get through this, build communities together. your neighbor, you can convince them to be your buddy. host: the last caller mentioned frustration with president biden and how he is handling the economy. i want to bring up is a video, this is a republican u.s. senator on the senate floor earlier this month, taking aim at bidenomics. let us hear from a senator from kansas. [video clip]

>> when my grandkids open up their history books, when they get to the 46th president of the united states, the title is going to be bidenflation and the subtitle, the worst economy in 40 years. it is the worst economy in my professional lifetime. when i say it is the worst economy, i want to start by saying i have not had one person in recent memory saying the economy is great, i love that i am paying so much more to make a living. whether it is food or groceries or housing, no one has come up to me and said i love this economy. it is the opposite. you may come up with different conclusions, but you cannot argue with the facts i'm about to give you. the average kansas family is paying $800 more per month just for basic needs, $800 more a

month. when we gave them the tax cuts in the previous administration, they were able to put $2000 more back into their pocket. this administrator can -- administration has taken more. gas prices doubled under this president, groceries are up 20%, utility bills. i cannot tell you how to people called me to tell me my utility bills have doubled compared to previous winters. housing, let us talk about housing. the average monthly payment for a person searching for a new home has doubled under this president. the average monthly payment for a person searching for a new home has doubled under this president. the white house economy has made housing totally unaffordable, especially for first-time homebuyers. i think every american dreams of owning a home and in kansas, a

truck and fishing boat. under this president, none of those are happening. i had the builders association from kansas in my office. largest number from that group of ever had. i knew their concerns before they gave them, i hear it every day when i am back home. i hear it from family members, friends, business owners, union workers, senior citizens. the cost of living is unbearable. young families with kids starting off, may be the first job out of high school or college, those are the ones being stung by bidenflation. host: that was u.s. senator roger marshall, republican for kansas taking aim at bidenomics. how do you see the impact of inflation on your personal finances?

democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents (202) 748-8002. let us go to new orleans, julian is calling on the republican line. caller: the class is not too smart because they do not teach economics in high school. even your fed chairman, when he goes around talking, he uses the word inflation as a slang term. there is a supply and demand, which causes prices to go up. the second thing that causes things to go up is when janet yellen was the treasury, 2% inflation crop. no you have powell who wants to be like a jew, printing money.

they print too much money, which means you have too many dollars. and covid came in, both of those things were happening. they were printing money to keep up with spending on the money we were throwing out. covid kept people out of work, therefore you had a supply and demand problem. when biden came in, he put a restriction on permits having to do with the leases and permits on government lands. if you have got a dozen eggs and it's costing you four dollars, they used to cost two dollars. with supply and demand, three dollars a gallon. printing money makes four dollars. you have to get these fed

chairman off the damn printing press. tell it to the fed chairman. they are using the term inflation like it is slang, they do not know what it is. host: let us go to arizona, independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think we have several major problems going on with our economy right now. the value of homes in the phoenix area where i live has decreased greatly. due to interest rate increases, you cannot afford to buy even a lesser priced home and qualify for loans. food cost has arisen approximately three times what it was. i used to be able to go to the grocery store and spend $100 a week, now i spend $300 a week for the same items i was buying before.

gas prices in the phoenix area are still four dollars a gallon, well above the national average. my husband is a retired disabled veteran, with our health care, we do not have a large expense for that. rent in the area has increased. his studio apartment is running $1400 a month. people cannot afford to continue paying at these rates. they are not making the money, at least in arizona they do not make that kind of money. the minimum wage is $14.50 per hour, which is lower than many places. it is probably higher than some states, i do not know that for a fact. but people cannot afford to eat. people cannot afford to pay rent. people cannot even sell their homes, because of values have decreased on their homes. we are in a situation where this

country needs to take a hard look at where it is going. if they continue to go in the trend right now, we will all be broke. we will not have anything and our country will go downhill, and that is a crime because we have a wonderful country and we need to get back to it. host: let us go to virginia, gabriel is calling on the democrat line. caller: hello, can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i heard a couple of people say they think inflation is due to rising wage costs and production costs, that is not true. the issue is corporate greed, the profit margins of these companies is higher than it has ever been before. it is not due to the modest wage

increases we have seen and improved working environments the labor movement has had the last couple of years due to covid. it is due to corporate greed. rent and housing market is out of control because of allowing corporations to speculate and buy these properties so they can either flip them or rent them through airbnb and short-term rentals. we need to make it illegal to own residence for corporations. we should make it so you cannot have airbnbs unless you live in that area. it is insane. there's plenty of houses, but they are all going to corporations that buy them up. they come in and make cash offers and people cannot afford to compete with that. no city in the country can someone making minimum wage for that place make enough to pay

for a one bedroom apartment. that is insane. this is not due to the government, this is due to corporate greed. the caller you had earlier had it right when he said capitalism runs on blood. thank you. host: let us go to george, calling from texas on the republican line. caller: good morning. the impact of inflation on my personal finances is devastating. i've just recently retired and thought i could make it on my income. i might have to go back to work. between gas and groceries and utilities, i do not have nothing extra. i used to be able to save a little bit, now i might have to go back to work. i am not the only one in this situation.

if i did not take care of myself when i was working, i am not lying, i would be in really bad shape. i had five kids coming up, i could imagine if i still had five kids living at home, there is no way i could make it trying to provide for them with the grocery prices as high as they are. i cannot imagine a lot of these people with the big families nowadays that are trying to make it with the husband and wife both working. they probably would have to get a part-time job on top of that. the impact of my finances and inflation, me personally, it is not a good deal. i want to share that with you and hope it gets better in the near future. host: before we go back to the phone lines, i want to read a new york times article. we have had several callers mentioned corporate profits.

i'm going to read a little bit from this article from a couple of months ago, late may. the prices of oil, transportation, food ingredients and other raw materials have fallen in recent months as the shocks stemming from the pandemic and war in ukraine have faded, yet many big businesses have continued raising prices at a rapid clip. some of the world's biggest company said they do not plan to change course and will continue increasing prices or keep them elevated levels for the foreseeable future. that strategy has cushioned corporate profits and could keep inflation robust. contributing to the very pressures used to justify surging prices. that is an article from the new york times addressing the issue of corporate profits contributing to inflation, but we want to hear from you the impact of inflation on your personal finances.

stephanie is calling from new jersey on the democratic line. caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: the gentleman from texas said basically what i wanted to say. here, people are buying homes, tearing them down and rebuilding them or renovating those that exist and charging ridiculous prices. the government does not have anything to do with that. i do not understand why people cannot get that through their heads, but so be it. have a good day, you are doing a good job, by the way. host: that will end this segment for us this morning. up next on washington journal,

openthebooks.com's adam andrzejewski will be discussing waste and abuse in government spending. later, former republican congressman bob inglis of8 and david kieve of the environmental defense action fund will discuss extreme weather events and the future of climate change. be right back. ♪ >> in 1978 -- since 1979, c-span has provided coverage of the halls of congress, from the house and senate floors to congressional hearings and

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welcome back to washington journal. we are joined by openthebooks.com founder adam andrzejewski. he will be discussing his research into waste and abuse in government spending. guest: great to be here. thanks for having me back. host: tell us about openthebooks.com. how long has it been around? how do you find what we see on the website? guest: we believe transparency is transformational. we are nonprofit and nonpartisan and believe that transparency revolutionizes public policy and politics. we started in the super bowl of corruption in 2011. we were the first to post the pensions of every illinois public employee at every level. and last year, we filed 55,000

freedom of information act requests. we captured nearly every dime spent at every level of government across the country. we do this so regular people can come to our website at openthebooks.com and follow the money. and hold the political class accountable. host: your website covers those federal and state level spending. it has analysis on where you see waste or fraud. guest: we open the books, audit the books. audits make national news. on our website, our database is comprised of nearly all federal spending since 2001, all 50 state checkbooks and 15,000 units for level checkbooks. -- municipal level checkbooks. we hold a record of nearly every single public employee at the

federal, state, and local level. 25 million salary and pension records. you can see who makes how much, even in your local school district or municipality. host: your organization with the recently -- your organization recently put out a report on earmarks. what are they? how are they approved by congress? guest: in earmark is a member cap project. members of congress request a project in their district. it has been described as legal bribery. an earmark is like the $1 million macadamia not initiative in hawaii. hawaii is only .1% of all agricultural production but the

senator wanted $1 million for the macadamia nut initiative. it is likely money that went to pittsburgh to make pittsburgh into hollywood and the phase ii of the michelle obama trail. phase i was paid for i dekalb county taxpayers. it is like the $5 million into naples, florida. into their septic system. phase i was paid for by local and state taxpayers. $5 million of federal money is paying for phase ii, literally flushing money down the septic system naples. the average home there is an average of $600,000 -- host: we mentioned that the macadamia n initiative,

showing $4 million for buses in wisconsin and $5 million for the ozark empire fairgrounds and six main dollars to institutions where members of congress, their spouses works. do you make a judgment on whether these earmarks are appropriate or good level of spending? in your opinion, are all your marks bad? is there a way to determine what is better spending than others? guest: our position is that local projects of merit should be funded locally. they should not be funded out of washington, d.c. earmarks were banned for the last decade. two years ago, republicans in the house, 102 republicans voted

in secret to join it nancy pelosi's democrats and bring back this earmark, the currency of corruption. last year, before mccarthy was elected speaker, they again today secret vote. this time, 158 republicans joined democrats to bring back remarks. in december of last year, the bilby's -- the bill signed between christmas and new marks, many earmarks were stepped into that year end budget bill. $16 billion worth of projects. just seven republicans earmarked $3.1 billion in that bill. host: we want to open it up to the phone lines. i want to give our viewers the

numbers to call to talk about earmarks, government spending and your opinions on whether there is waste and fraud. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also send a text message, (202) 748-8003. representative mike simpson, a republican from idaho, put out what he calls a defensive earmarks. they call them community project funding. i want to read you an excerpt of what h in that defense posted on his website. herite "make no mistake, the

ral government has a problem but congressionally directed ding is not more spending. it is simply a way for members to prioritize projects within their own districts within existing budget limits. these projects are limited to no more than 1% of the discretionary budget." what is your response to his defense of what he calls community project funding? guest: first, we have to change the name. earmarks, when they were banned, most wanted them banned because of corruption in congress. simpson is putting forth the mary poppins theory, that you need sugar to move these bills through congress. earmarks by definition

circumvent the regular budget process in congress. earmarks are irregular. no one is against the splash pad in michigan or the $2 million earmark for the member of congress in baltimore for the great blacks in wax museum. six months previously, he was ensconced with a wax figurine. no one is against these projects if they are paid for locally. host: let's go again to the phone lines, democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. our first color is from north carolina, independent line. caller: one to know how much money has been spent on the

banks, wall street, tax cuts for the rich, the war in afghanistan and iraq. pins the department of homeland security -- and the department of homeland security that cannot predict january 6. have you done that? -- done studies on that? the money that he is talking about is not affecting the budget that much, but these are the things that really are. it's his organization doing a study on the? guest: thanks for the question. here is our position on earmarks.

$16 billion in a 1.7 trillion dollar budget bill, you may say it is not a lot of money but it is the gateway drug that fuels the big spending bill. this is the currency of corruption. i want to show in the next couple of examples how members of congress are benefiting through earmarks. we had patrick lady. he was going to retire at the end of the last session. six months ago, he earmarked $30 million into the university of vermont honors college. in may of this year, after the senator retired, diversity of vermont renamed their honors college after senator patrick lady -- lehey. and the president of the university of vermont even a

permanent presidential fellowship at the school. and then lehey earmarks $30 million into the burlington international airport. in april, the city council in burlington renamed the airport after him. and richard shelby, retiring from congress, earmarks money into his alma mater, the university of alabama which was also going to host his senate archive. he earmarked it for the university of alabama endowment, which already stood at $1 billion. think about that. we have borrowed against the national debt. and we stuffed it into the university of alabama endowment, already $1 billion. this is a school where they pay their football coach $11 million a year. host: our next caller is phil,

long island, new york, independent line. caller: history repeats itself. go back to sandy relief. everybody criticized ted cruz. he said he did not want these earmarks that had nothing to do with sandy in the bill. now what happens? peter king, congressman from long island, and chris christie all beat up ted cruz because he said i will give you money for sandy but i do not want all these earmarks. and they just passed the debt ceiling. part of that was to claw back covid money. what did the long island republican congressman do? he voted for that but at the same time, the national county executive is trying to find ways to spend $268 million.

they are all come out left and right, addicted to spending our money. i grew up with nothing. i am sacrificing now so might kids and grandchildren do not have to pay. but we have got to get this wasteful spending under control. they are both filtered of it. we need a third party. host: --guest: the caller is correct. both parties are addicted to spending taxpayer dollars. it is equivalent to an open bar for a lunch of alcoholics. my evidence on this is the national debt. in the 1980's, our national debt stood at the less than $1 trillion. more than 40 years later, we are at $32.5 trillion. both parties are addicted to

spending taxpayer money. host: i go back to what republicans say. it is interesting when you think about earmarks. republicans were somewhat critical. they ended earmarks 11 or 12 years ago. democrats brought it back last year under nancy pelosi. under kevin mccarthy, earmarks of continued but with some changes. this is from a report in rollcall earlier this year. as house republican appropriators have banned earmarks from labor, hhs, labor, education and put fresh -- on community project funding, regulating that process. kay granger, republican from texas, announced the new rules tuesday night. earmarks spending will be capped

at .5% of total discretionary spending in the fiscal 2024 bill. members will have to submit a written statement describing the federal nexus for their earmark request. if tests republicans are able to follow through on their pledge to cut total fiscal 2024 appropriations, earmarked funds and has spending bills would drop to about $7.4 billion, less than half of what was appropriated. and this year, omnibus at about 10% less than the $8.2 billion included last year. house republicans will say you cannot do anymore of those education earmarks that you identified as problematic, no more naming things after people.

they got rid of that and are tapping it further. what would you say to has republicans who say we have created new rules to address a lot of the issues you have raised about earmarks. is that enough? why or why not? guest: fungus rates the rules and the rules are completely lacks -- congress writes the rules and the rules are completely lax. republicans have gone wild for earmarks in 2024. the situation is getting worse. you have 4700 earmarks. 62% are from republicans. the first 63 largest your markers for 2024 in the house are republicans. republicans are loading up. we have called on kevin mccarthy.

republicans to this point have only taken a secret vote in the house on earmarks. we are calling on speaker mccarthy to call for a public vote. if we are going to have this mechanism of earmarks, kevin mccarthy -- the american people need to be able to see who is in and out on earmarks. are they really going to cast a public vote on your marks? we deserve to find out. host: tybalt of that article you mentioned. this is in rollcall, published yesterday. it says, "house republicans have thoroughly stacked the earmarking that in their favor in appropriations for the upcoming year. the top democratic recipient does not even appear in the top 60 in that chamber.

in their first year in the majority, they brought back the practice republicans banned a decade earlier. gop lawmakers are spreading money across projects stepped inside the fiscal 2024 appropriations bill." guest: senator susan collins of maine, at six months ago, in the omnibus spending bill, she proved through $300 million worth of earmarks for maine. her counterpart, angus king, earmarked $100 million but he saw how it worked. here is what they have requested for 2024. susan collins, $500 million worth of earmarks. angus king, $900 million worth of earmarks. together, the two senators in

maine are requesting 1.4 billion dollars of special projects. host: our next caller is dee in seattle, democratic line. caller: republicans were not worried when trump spent over $140 million of taxpayer money on golf. then you had 1.5 trillion cut in medicare -- $1.5 trillion in medicaid, medicare, $25 billion in social security, cuts in temporary assistance. when you took office, the national debt was $19 trillion. you left, it was $27 trillion. you do not care about america and our debt. it is shocking that you have valued your job over the

security of this country. you are not willing to deal with the realities at hand. you should be ashamed of yourselves. period. done. guest: we are nonpartisan. when the comp administration was in power, we held them accountable, too. right here from this program, i called out the trump administration and the two houses of congress controlled by republicans for trillion dollar budget deficits. i called that dangerous. we have held the trump administration accountable. we need to hold the republican majority in the house accountable and the biden administration as our national debt soars. this year, the projected budget deficit that is spending over revenues is $1.5 trillion. there is no end in sight to the

runaway spending of this government. host: let's go to new carlisle, ohio. bernie is on the independent line. caller: good morning. number one, something i think should be mentioned everyday on c-span is climate change. but they will comment is the gentleman -- my real comment is the gentleman did not respond to the first caller regarding the big money spent in wars. i would like to mention the fact that use ago, i heard that the pentagon could not account for $11 trillion worth of stuff they spend money on. like leroy said, could remain dollars here and they are all adds up.

you look into the kind of spending and that at the time. that is my comment. host: before adam response, i want to let you know we will get to climate change later today. stay tuned. adam, he wants you to talk about the effect that there is so much other government spending that far outweighs what you find in earmarks. guest: your marks are the gateway drug to the big spending bills. there has been trillions of dollars worth of spending racked up over the last decade. that is obvious from the both of the national debt. during the pandemic, there was over $5 trillion worth of coronavirus aid doled out to everybody. nearly every federal program was legally gained by insiders or illegally looted. on stealing alone, the estimates

are north of $500 million stolen by criminals around the world. then you have the legalized gaming of the system by insiders. for example, we took a look at the top 300 law firms in the country. 126 were forgiven paycheck protection loans. these loans were designed for mom-and-pop businesses shut down during the lockdown. they were not designed for the most successful law firms in the countries whose partners during this period, we prove, were taking millions of dollars annually while there firms were forgiven for $800 million.

host: you just mentioned a different report called improper payments on your openthebooks.com website. we have listed se highlights fr that report on public payments. you mentioned some. you found that $247 billion i improper federal payments in 22hat the paycheck precon program has spent more than $29illion. in social security's survivors and disability and -- disability programs also misspent money. where do you think the money went? guest: every year, there is a report mandated by congress that the office of management and

budget has to release. it is the mistaken and improper. these are payments that went to the wrong person, wrong amount, wrong set of rules. there are obviously mistakes. the biden administration the first two years has it it'd to a staggering $530 billion worth of these mistakes. it is the first administration since 2004 that is on pace to admit to over $1 trillion in programs worth of mistakes. it is a staggering statistic that quantifies the institutional incompetence of government. host: we are talking with adam andrzejewski, founder of openthebooks.com, which researches waste and abuse in government spending.

we are taking your questions and calls. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans , (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. next, we have been georgia from absalom any, michigan, independent line. caller: i do not know whether the looming new about the money joe biden left in afghanistan when he pulled out as part of the money they admitted you. but you should add that in if you have not. guest: i want to respond to that. an observation -- as the taliban advanced on afghanistan in

august of 2021, our auditors nailed the number, $82.9 billion dollars over 20 years provided by u.s. tax payers. it was 600,000 weapons, 300,000 machine guns, vehicles that we stood to leave behind. so, yes, we were all over that number and we were the subject matter experts during that period. to hold the biden administration accountable for their please do withdrawal. host: george, did you have another part to your question? caller: the other, and is democrats are calling in, blaming trump, trenton, trump. but what about all this money that trump had to spend to

rebuild our military because barack obama left it in port shape? between george bush and barack obama, this country was going to the pits. when donald trump was in there, gas was like two dollars and $.30 a gallon. i would go to the grocery store -- i go to the grocery store now. i do my shopping at walmart. people frown on that but i do my shopping at walmart. you can hardly buy a half apart. groceries now and get out of that store for less than $125. this is ridiculous. gas prices are creeping up, back to almost $3.50 here in the southeast michigan where i live. this is ridiculous. the only way they are going to get this back under control is the have got to get trump back

in to get this economy moving again. if you leave democrats in charge of all that money, you are just going to get more of what you got. it will get worse. guest: the democrats are spending a lot of money. let's go back to the american rescue act plan of 2021. there was a $350 million bailout. and you had republican governors in there with democrats. nancy pelosi said it, republicans in congress will vote no, but republican governors will take the dough. that is what happens. even in texas and florida, you had texas running a $1 billion budget surplus. and greg abbott took a bailout.

same thing in florida. republican governors took the money and spend it. beverly hills, california, 30,000 municipalities across the country were bailed out. 90210 received a bailout. and the richest spot in america have got $1.3 million worth of bailout. and you had los angeles county. they took $2 billion out of the american rescue act. it was so much money that l.a. county lifeguards now make up to 510,000 dollars a year. 98 of them made more than $200,000 last year. and the top paid l.a. county lifeguard made $510,000. host: i want to read a text

message from tony in sugar land, texas -- " the house passed rules from last congress that did not get much media attention dealing with reimbursement for housing, food, etc." you talked about the subsidies or the money that goes to reimbursement to members of congress or state they may receive for housing and food if such exists for members of congress or their staff. guest: i think that those of increase. the congressional office allotment went higher over the course of the last couple of years. but we have not studied this issue. host: kelly in lynchburg, virginia rights, open quote

waste is in the eye of the beholder. government spending allowed for national parks and interstates. how do you address that? guest: that is true. you can layout the -- we lay out the examples so you have the information and can hold the political class accountable from your perspective. i want to give you an example of how earmarks are corrupting congress. you have roy blunt out of missouri. six months ago in the omnibus spending bill, he did two earmarks for a total of $91 billion. $61 million went into the university of missouri into a building that was named after him. that was for upgrades and equipment. then he did it again at his

almost bought her, missouri state. a $30 million earmark into a building that trustees named after roy blunt two weeks before the vote. all told, $91 million of our money went to do two buildings that bear the senator's name. host: this is a question from text messages from steve in albany, new york. can you cite any examples of citizens becoming aware of wasteful spending on the local level and effectively combating it? guest: yes. in new orleans, there was an employee of the new orleans police department. he knew many came to openthebooks.com something was not right. people were making more than what they should have been making. when he died deeper, it -- deb

deeper, it kicked off a federal investigation. officers were put on leave and the results of the investigation are pending. at openthebooks.com, we have been able to rack up a lot of wins, even here in 2023. the house republican majority adopted a new transparency and legislation rule. for two years, we had run a campaign to read the bills. we put this in the wall street journal. we put tens of thousands of signatures on a position. it was a night 9% issue -- a 99% issue with the american people that we need to see what is in legislation before a vote. that was adopted for the first time in the house rules by house republicans. host: tony, new york,

independent line. caller: good morning. on the subject of wasteful spending, i want to focus on the local level. one of the biggest things is police spending. i am calling from suffolk county, new york. we paid more than 165 million dollars in lawsuits against police misconduct. in general, the institute also says that policing costs the nation about $115 billion per year. i think when we talk about police budgets, they have gone up. my candy has one of the highest police budgets in the nation. we need to talk about policing in and of itself. at the federal level, there are

programs that militarize police. the 1033 program supplies in a lot of the local police departments. i think we talk about cutting costs, we need to not bailout banks, not bellow corporations. thank you. host: a lot in --guest: a lot in that. 1033 is a transfer of surplus military equipment into local police departments. at openthebooks.com, you can go to the maps section, put in a zip code and see in your own community what has been transferred from the pentagon to your local police department. in terms of police budgets, we went through a period where there was a defund the police movement.

in austin, texas, they are down about 300 officers on headcount versus what they called for in their budget. they are under policed. austin requested that texas state troopers come in to help with local policing this spring. in baltimore, one of the most dangerous cities in america, we took a look at the headcount on police officers over the last decade. incredibly, in baltimore, they are down 500 officers, as robberies and smaller crimes are up 38% this year. policing is complicated. military station of federal agencies -- we are subject matter experts on this -- since 2006, there has been 3.7 million

dollars spent on military style equipment amongst federal agencies but only 26 are traditional law enforcement agencies. under the department of justice or homeland security, 76 of those federal agencies are traditional paper pushing regulatory agencies. for example, like the department of education, like social security, health and human services or the irs. when you hear that the irs is armed up after grabbing legal power, they are amassing firepower on the irs has spent $35 million since 2006 on guns, ammunition, and military style. host: adam andrzejewski, openthebooks.com is his website. thank you for joining us. we are going to take a break. coming up at the top of the

hour, former republican congressman bob inglis and david kieve of environmental defense action fund will discuss extreme weather and the future of climate change. but first, open forum, your chance to weigh in on any topic. start calling in now. ♪ ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2020 for coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches, and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span

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are chance to weigh in on any topic. democrats, call us at (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. let's start with edmund in illinois, republican line. caller: how are you this morning? host: doing well. what is on your mind? guest: -- caller: the last caller, that was interesting about the militarization about the police. but one thing that occurred to me, i voted for trump, that when he says that there were no bullets in the shells, known guns.

the military always gets more than it asks for. they failed their last six audits. i do not know if they have ever completed an audit. that is such a massive pile of spending. even with the last guest, we know politicians are corrupt. my friends on the left know it, my friends on the right. but there are definite things we can go after like the military-industrial complex. that is something we can all agree is too big, over 1000 bases all over the world. why? it is insanity. that is something we can all get behind. host: next is david in sheboygan, wisconsin, independent line. caller: i cannot think of any reason that studying dirt on the

moon and mars will help us on earth and has studying the atmosphere of mars is going to help us fix our atmosphere or appointment problem -- four climate problem. host: two to leslie do this, john, democratic -- let's go to los angeles, john, democratic line. caller: i was having some issues with israeli funding. i do not have a problem with pending -- funding israel all the time, but i do not know why we have such an allegiance. common sense would say that what do they do for us? i guess we get intelligence from them?

i do not know. i do not see that there is really a payoff. they do not support the palestinian people with this money. palestinians need support as well. i do not know why $350 billion goes to earmarks to israel every year. fox news might have an answer, but i do not. it is a woke agenda. but it is money that should be spent at home. the money that we do spend towards israel that goes to humanitarian needs is absolutely necessary, but to the military, i think the israelis can support their own military. host: our next caller is david in riverside, california, republican line. caller: good morning to you and america.

i support ron desantis for president. he is 32 years younger than trump, similar policies but he is better on moral and social issues. key was better on not locking people down during the corona virus. please while the popular in florida. at 44 years old, he could be president for 8 years. also ron desantis can use bidens aid against him. trump cannot. ron desantis does not have the baggage that trump has with the scandals. even if the scandals were unfair, trump could go to jail while the republican nominee. president biden will have a hard time attacking governor desantis. i read his book, the courage to be free, he is a political genius like ronald reagan and a cultural warrior. if the santa's -- desantis does

not get the nomination, he would be the obvious place for vice president. -- and the border crisis, leading millions of illegal immigrants over the border with the intent to make them citizens. host: we got your point. let's go to crystal river, florida. israel is calling on the independent line. caller: thank you. my name is israel from christer -- crystal river, florida. i want to mention a couple of things having to do with government expenses. to answer the two people who came on, the person who said that -- why is it important to

support israel? in biblical text, in the book of genesis, it says if we bless israel we should be blessed. and love people think it is natural. they never think it is supernatural because they are following god's laws. they separate themselves from knowledge of the supernatural. everything that is done here in the natural has these repercussions. as far as the immigration laws, i was thinking that there is something that could be done, which is to allow immigration to come in and serve in this nation for x amount of years to gain citizenship. the united states military, at the same time, we can also result a shortage of blood

banks, which is what a lot of people are seeking in this nation. if you allow millions or billions of immigrants to serve in this nation in the u.s., terry and -- u.s. military and serve their time, that is a way to allow citizenship to, and it would allow for indifference, prejudice, discrimination, all nuts -- all that hatred, everything people oppose something against another human being, that is putting hatred toward them. host: appreciate your call. george is next in freehold, new jersey, democratic line. caller: good morning. i would like to appeal to c-span right now to bring on one or more of the numbers of the dominion nest -- dominionist

sect of white christian nationalism. if you do not know who they are, i urge you to look up dominionism and seven hills, a colt determined to take over the -- colt determined to take over the u.s. based on what they consider a divine mandate. the seven hills represented seven properties of our culture. in each, they claim dominion. the scam on some sort of spiritual mandate. you might want to bring one or more of these people on c-span and give us an opportunity to ask exactly what they stand for, what their purpose is, and who they are. you would be surprised to learn that a former vice president of the u.s. is a dominionist, as

are many members of congress and the senate. why do they think they have a divine mandate to take over the country? it would be helpful to a lot of us to understand, whether you agree or disagree and whether we want to be victim from government. host: all right, george. republican line, jonathan from pennsylvania. caller: good morning. you are doing a great job. i just got the perfect presidential ticket for 2024, donald trump as president, ron desantis as vice president. we would have 12 years of republican presidency, which would be great. thank you for your time. host: next, ohio, democratic

lines. caller: i was formerly a supporter of the democrats, merely as the lesser evil to the warmongering republicans. that now i think democratic leadership has taken first place in that dirty game of supporting the lies that drag us into wars. ever since he entered the second world war, there is a particular phrase i have developed in my own mind. it pulls out incredible, mind-boggling information about the untoward and deadly influence of the cia and the military-industrial complex in control of the media, all

institutions of our society, and many of the front spec claimed some kind of religious orientation to give greater credibility to the warmongering policies and propaganda of most of the media. that phrase is "cia controls media to demonize countries for u.s. attacks against them." host: all right, we have got your point. next, north carolina on the independent line. caller: i am 63 years old in north carolina. i am going to have to find me a

job. donald trump, now $720. gas and groceries is outrageous. under trump, they were reasonable. i have never voted. i do not care about republicans or democrats but i believe in donald trump. it will vote for the first time for donald trump. video i know will vote for donald trump. -- everybody i know will vote for donald trump. joe biden has not protected us from our enemies foreign and domestic. if you are worried about climate change -- if we do not get joe biden out of office and trump back in. host: on the line from strasberg, ohio, doug calling as an independent. caller: hello. how are you?

all i had got to say is i feel very sure these republicans right now, -- feel sorry for these republicans right now. they drink the kool-aid. the economy is great, interest is going down. inflation is going down. the talking about putting a criminal back in office. he is a traitor. ain't no way he should be in office. joe biden will make it a second term. top is going to go to jail. -- trump is going to go to jail. he can spend the rest of his life there. he is the worst disgrace this country has ever had. host: joe is in maine, independent line. caller: i am 65.

i have never seen anything like the way in the country is and i have been lied to my whole career. it is amazing where the republicans are now. they are going to legitimately denominate a criminal. -- i think she was 63. wake up. the guy is a criminal. he has seized half of his donations -- has used half of his donations to paint not his campaign but his lawyers. he is like rudy, unable to practice law, to powell.

when i was a young man in school , we had someone who sent you do not need an atomic bomb. unit the that to destroy the mock -- you do not need that to destroy democracy. what will destroy democracy is lawyers willing to live. look at where we are. that was in the 1970's. look at where we are now. look at all the people who are going to put donald trump in jail. they are all lawyers. can i say one more thing? the first time we c-span was talking about was whether or not donald trump's ties were made in china. host: we appreciate your call this morning. that will do it for us for open

forum. after the break, former republican congressman bob inglis and david kieve will discuss extreme weather events in the future of climate change. ♪ >> be up to date in the latest in publishing with book tv, podcasts about books. his current nonfiction book releases plus bestseller lists as well as industry news and trends through insider interviews.

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>> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are joined by former u.s. representative bob inglis, a republican from south carolina serving as executive director of the advocacy group. we also have david kiva -- kieve , president of the environment of the fence action fund. we will discuss climate change policies and recent extremes weather pattern. let's start with you congressman inglis. what is the mission and where do you get your funding? >> we are conservatives who care about climate change who think

this is an issue it's mostly been discussed in the language of the left and that we need to introduce the terminology of the right, people about american -- practical american solutions talking about free enterprise innovation and a way to get the world in on climate action. we think if we can go to conservatives with credible messengers and affirm the truth that practical american solutions and free enterprise can solve this problem, then conservatives can start to engage. we are trying to expand the conversation to include fellow conservatives. host: david, what is the mission of the environmental defense fund action and how are you funded? >> thank you so much.

edf action -- edf is a world-class environmental leading the way in developing policy solutions to tackle some of the worlds biggest problems and challenges. everything that edf does is guided by science and by economics. we have is two of our core values optimism and pragmatism. in spite of the fact we are facing extreme weather across the country i feel incredibly optimistic, especially because we are nearing the one-year anniversary of the passage of the biggest climate law the country and i believe the world has ever seen which i believe will be truly transformative in terms of changing the way we get our energy as a nation. host: i want to show both of you guys this is a recent article by the washington post, the headline basically says it all,

we are living through earth's hottest month on record scientists say. i will start with you representative inlis. -- inglis. are these record temperatures the result of climate change? >> almost certainly. i think we are also starting to be taught by her own experience. experience is an effective teacher. often a harsh teacher but pretty effective. when the seawater is nearly 100 degrees in key west, i grew up on the coast in south carolina. if i were swimming in 100 degree water i would realize something is up. i think that's what we are all finding out is something is up. in congress in 2010 was aggressive disbelief about

climate change. now it's quite different. people are realizing it is real, it's obviously real. now how we get the world in is the current mental block. host: david what do you have to add on this conversation about record temperatures in july. >> i agree completely with the congressman. it's not just uncomfortable and strange it is also dangerous. the temperatures is off the coast of florida, what's really terrifying about that is generally speaking as storms approach coast there supposed to slow down. when we see massive hurricanes they've accelerated in recent years because of water temperature has driven them to move towards the coast faster increasing the damage we experience, increasing loss of life and other challenges and

concerns. this record heat wave we've experienced throughout the southwest. there was a study a short while ago that said if the phoenix area were to experience anything like the blackouts they experienced in texas, the tens of thousands and perhaps as many as 100,000 people in the area would potentially die and those people would be the vulnerable among us. the old, the very young and the poor and those with pre-existing health conditions. it's truly a matter of life and death. it is beyond just being uncomfortable, it is life-threatening. host: we are talking today about climate change in the affected of extreme weather events. i want to go ahead and give you

the numbers to call for your questions for them or your comments on climate change. democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. you can also text us at 202-748-8003. we want to get to your questions and comments in just a moment. i want to read to you both this is an article in cbs news again about these extreme weather events that we've been seeing. it says in part boiling heat and raising floods of taken the world by storm in recent weeks. summoning millions into dangerous and deadly conditions. the beginning of a new and worsening reality. the heat wave causing record temperatures, storms dumping record rain on cities and wildfires raging across thousands of acres of land are all the impacts of an undeniable

force, climate change. i want to start with you david. what are the policy positions your organization is taking to address climate change and what is the role of government versus the free market in the private sector? >> that's an excellent question and i think the congressman is probably chomping at the bit to tackle the free-market side of things. but my view is the bill that we passed one year ago called the inflation reduction act was intended to use the tax system to create a set of tax incentives. more carrots than sticks in policy talk. to encourage people and companies to take action that will help us to address this climate crisis. the easiest one of those to understand is a tax credit for electric vehicles. it $7,500 for a new electric

vehicle and includes a tax credit for used electric vehicles for the first time ever. american consumers want these cars, they perform better, they cost less to fix and repair and they save american consumers a lot of money. they currently cost a little bit more. but with these tax credits, it will lower the cost and make it easier for americans to get in these vehicles and lower their payments on a monthly basis. that's one key way we are working quickly to tackle some climate crisis. the article is accurate. we will be living with the consequences of our in action for far too long for the foreseeable future and this is unfortunately our new reality and even if we do everything that we must do to tackle the climate crisis we will be stuck with the present level of

badness for at least a decade before things start to get better. the choice before us is not can we make things better tomorrow 80's can we stop some of the damage we have done. host: back to you representative, talk about your policy position on addressing climate change, what you think the government should be doing versus the private sector. >> we think with the government should do is tax pollution instead. and then apply that tax to chinese imports and imports from any country that doesn't have a similar carbon tax to would we would have. we think that's the most powerful thing to do. there are three ways to fix climate change. you can try to regulate emissions but you can't regulate chinese emissions from here in america. you incentivize clean energy and i agree with david to those incentives will be powerful for american taxpayers.

they don't affect the economics of chinese corporations or corporations and other parts of the world. so their reach might be limited to america which will be great here because we will clean up local air and care as my and fewer hospitalizations, that will be great. what we need to do is figure out a way to get the world in on this thing. we think the way to do that is to just tax pollution instead of taxing income. don't grow the government, if you care as we do as conservatives about the regressive impact of carbon tax. carbon tax by itself hurts poor people. but if you pair it with a reduction for example in payroll taxes, you can actually make the bottom 70% of americans come out

better and so you do that, then what you do is pull out the tax that doesn't have this similar price on carbon dioxide. we think they'll lose that case and if they do, a 24 hours later because they have an amazing way of reaching consensus in china they would have the same carbon tax because otherwise they would be paying the tax to our government on entry of their goods that they could collect themselves and their goods would enter the american market with no tax. 24 hours later, they are a pretty efficient government. not very nice, but efficient. 24 hours later they have the same carbon tax. the whole world would be seeing

the true cost of the burning of fossil fuel built into the price of everything. making things accountable would be more expensive compared to renewables and therefore cleaner. -- cheaper because it doesn't have that carbon tax attached to it. we think that's the way to unleash the power of self-interest in the liberty of people to choose their self-interest. 8 billion people doing that would create innovation very fast. >> we are speaking this morning with the former u.s. are presented bob -- representative bob inglis and david kieve. we are talking about climate change and the effect of extreme weather events. we want you to call in with your comments or questions for our guests.

the numbers for democrats, 202-748-8000. republicans 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. let's go to the phone lines now. matt is calling from falls church, virginia on the democratic line, go ahead matt. caller: i would just like to respond something former representative inglis said, people need to respond to their self-interest. i think the current republican party will not do anything about climate change unless it is in their self-interest. i don't think we will get any climate change legislation until things get worse. i am a little bit of what we call a tumor. i don't think we as a country care enough about this problem to do anything about it.

i think we are the frog in the boiling pot. it is boiling but we are still floating and still going. i look around and it's 110 degrees in arizona. people are just living their lives. no one's really protesting or going out in the streets. the antarctic shelf breaking off , methane gas being released in great numbers, the canadian forest fires, we just live through the haze. i don't think we will do anything until it gets worse. i really want to know which is how will you convince your party made up of people who seem to be deeply antiscience, who don't believe in the reality of climate change and who are

actively fighting against it by propagandizing falsehoods? host: let's let representative inglis respond. >> hears the state of play in my part to their publican party, there is a guy who has a very short-term hope, he wants to win just one more election. meanwhile there are other republicans serving the house and senate who have a longer time horizon. they want to be reelected and they see, particularly young conservatives coming at them saying don't we have a solution to this thing. why don't we get with it. so those longer time horizon republicans will eventually rise up. i share optimism about the thing

that we will act. while i'm saying that the scientists are bringing in my ears saying faster, we don't have time for a demographic change. but that's the situation of the party. a guy with a very short time horizon and some other leaders with longer time horizons. the longer time horizon people are scared of that short time horizon guy. he has them basically bullied into not being able to help about climate change. here's my hope, he will be gone no matter what by 2026. you are a lame-duck in the second half of your second term even in the world moves on. i think at that point we will move on surely to saying what we do about climate change, let's get together and solve this thing. isn't america great enough to solve this challenge?

that's the question we need to be asking of those long time horizon folks. host: let's take another caller. john in georgia, republican line. go ahead. caller: if you pull off the average global temperature from the national weather center, you can see in the year 2015 that was the highest temperature on record. you can get it from 1875 through last year, it varies each year but we've had hotter years than we've had this year and china produces more carbon dioxide than the united states, india and russia combined. how is it that we plan to prevent -- anything we plan to do to affect global temperature of china is not on board? india is predicted to have one of the most robust economies by 2050. they are not going to get there

with renewables, the most important question is where is our energy going to come from? we can run this on renewables. nobody wants to build more power plants so where is our energy going to come from in order to run the country on all electric society? host: david i will let you respond. >> thanks so much. there's a lot to tackle their and i appreciate the call and the concern. i again go back to the action congress took and the president signed last year and the inflation reduction act which was the biggest climate bill our country has ever seen. the congressman has talked at some length about china. you introduced india as well. both of those are places where the environment of defense fund works and tries to push those governments and societies to be

better on climate. i joined edf action relatively recently from the white house. i focused entirely on domestic matters, i talked to my colleagues who work internationally and what they shared with me was the constant complaint from other emitting countries was they didn't need to do anything because the united states was the largest emitter in the world and had never shown leadership on climate. i think we answer that complaint last year and i think it changes the dynamic not just for the united states but the rest of the world. other countries throughout the world no longer have the excuse they don't need to do anything because we have not done anything. we are often losing to a place where america has asserted itself and determined we ought to have the global leader in good paying jobs in clean energy. we know jobs are coming. it's been a bit of an open

question where they didn't go elsewhere. what we've seen is action taken to cite those jobs here in the united states so that we can lead the way. that's my best crack at an answer to your question. it may not be satisfactory but i truly believe we have assured american leadership and a way we haven't before and we will have -- it will have great repercussions overseas and move us in a positive direction. >> if i could jump in and also agree with what david is saying. it's important work edf is doing in china and i think it will be effective because the chinese we have to assume have a need to act on climate. even if you are a repressive chinese dictator you might have a spouse and a child and that spouse is chewing on your ear

saying do something about the air. our son or daughter can even go outside to play. we have to assume they have the need to act. they are feeling climate change in their throat and their eyes. you don't feel co2 but you feel the products of co2, the small particulates. we have to assume they want to figure out a way to act. you are onto something that you have to make interest. i believe the way this to say america is going to act on climate change. we are going to price in the effects of burning fossil fuels into the price of products. here in america we will cut taxes somewhere else, but china you are now going to pay that cost when you send stuff to us. don't like that, apply your own carbon tax in which case they

come in without adjustment. then the world follows. america is in a position to lead using the strength of our economy and actions to that amazing market, the whole world wants access to. >> our next caller is marcus in chicago, illinois. independent line. caller: i'm so glad the last caller brought up china and it's becoming quite the theme and quite frankly a sorry excuse for us not to act on climate. let me clear the air a little bit. china emits a lot of carbon, their per capita carbon output is smaller than the per capita carbon output of the united states, they have over three times the population of the

united states and they have been the leader in investing in renewable energy they cleaned up the air much more over there largest cities in the past decade. secondly when we talk about what we need to invest in here and where we will get our energy from i think a major factor is we have to get away from focusing so heavily on car focused infrastructure here if we are going to do this in an effective way and that selector if i in building out train networks that will reduce reliance on cars. right now our infrastructure is car based. credits for electric cars is a good thing that we have to stop

producing so many cars where multiple families have multiple cars per household, it is out of necessity right now because we do not have the infrastructure to get to and from work, home and places we want to go. we can do that and do it in an effective way. we used to have a major railroad network and now it is all owned by a couple of logistical companies with a stranglehold on it. host: we've got your point, i want to give our guests some time to respond. we will start with you former rep inglis. >> i think he's right we do need to put it in historical context emissions. the truth is we've emitted more than anyone else in the world. we didn't quite know. back when john d rockefeller was starting standard oil, i don't think he really knew, i don't

know. maybe along the way we got to know. shirley we did get to know in the oil companies got to know earlier than the rest of us. it's -- and he's definitely correct about the per capita. we have over 300 million people in china -- and china has a billion people to that. total emissions are greater than ours, but you divide it by an additional one billion people, we have some real -- they have some real poverty in china and are trying to overcome that. the question is how do we all continue to prosper in a world that basically is fouling the nasty. what we will do is innovate away from that. john d rockefeller innovated away from coal and whale oil and

into petroleum. i have to believe that that kind of guy were still alive he would be innovating away from what we have now saying the next thing is advanced nuclear, of the next thing is hydrogen. the next thing is better solar efficiency and batteries. let's push it and make some money on it. we think that's really important. the definition of sustainability, what i learned, a guy told me sustainability means making a profit. if you can make a profit at sustainable. we have to figure out a way to figure its practical and returns money to people, making money serving customers. we need to harness that system

to deliver innovation faster in simple sentiment. we need to the economics work. >> when the congressman started to say i think marcus is onto something i thought he was going to talk about nationalizing the railroads and i was going to fall out of my chair. that would be out of line with what i understand to being a forward leaning republican position. i just want to focus on it couple of the points. he cited the excuse for american in action being that china is already emitting so much so what's the point. the other thing we hear, china so far out in front of us in developing of battery storage and electric vehicles that we could never catch up. both of those things are fundamentally defeatist and i believe in american exceptionalism, the congressman does too and i believe we should position ourselves and lead as a nation and we are tell --

capable of doing it. both of those false choices and excuses for in action there -- for inaction that are offered. host: let's hear from john calling from oregon on the democratic line. caller: good morning. been quite a few points brought up. there is a facility in portland making electric motors and in thinking possibly auto conversion would be a good thing. our airline industry dumping toxins into the upper atmosphere i think that's probably one of the larger problems, not to mention the other things that could be happening. we need to address the airline pollution. thank you.

>> i agree and it's one of the reasons why the environmental defense fund is focused on making sure we get sustainable aviation fuel right. we have a real opportunity to transform the way that sector of our economy operates in the types of fuel sources, airplanes we use for travel. for shipping are working. another point relates to air travel and it's costing our nation billions of dollars. the extreme weather events every to havoc on her ability -- on our ability and causing issues for travelers who have had to deal with flight cancellations. let's say for instance you would go to disney world.

you may have bought all of your passes you are not spending money and the gift shop or any money on meals and contribute into economic growth in other ways if you're not able to get there. you are dealing with a sunk cost and probably pretty disappointed kids. we cannot have that. that's the daily experience millions of americans work hard and save up to be able to take a vacation with her family. it's directly related to the climate crisis. host: andy, phoenix, arizona, republican line. caller: i have a question for your guests. i'm certainly for clean air, i want the clean a we can breathe and the cleanest water we can drink. i think earth is a beautiful thing.

it's just beautiful and all of us wanted to remain beautiful. here's my question and i know you may have an answer or not. over the years i've enjoyed a lot of science shows, national geographic and so i really don't know how i feel about climate change. i believe it could be happening, i just don't know how much we are the cause of it. when i watch the shows, 100,000 years ago the climate was different in this or that region. were they being honest when i watch the shows? because if that's the case maybe we are in some sort of change that occurs throughout the history of this world? i just don't know because they have said climate has changed 100,000 years ago this region was a tropical region and now it's a cold region. i would just like to get your

thoughts on that. thank you very much and have a great day. >> so true, the continent is constantly changing, it's just in this current period, it's pretty clear we are the changers. there are some things you cannot control, for example sunspots and tilt of the earth and volcanic activity, we cannot control them. but we can control what we do. if you eat well and exercise you increase your well-being, but you got to genetic things going on as well. that's our situation. let's control the things we can control and be accountable. we think that's a key concept, but what i suggest is you follow-up, go to our website and

look under the about climate change to have and you'll see this amazing info graphic from bloomberg business week that shows what it could be. maybe it's a fun activity and they plot temperature rise and then show you how it would be compared to sun activity and there is into correlation. they'll volcanic activity. plot that along and there's not a tight correlation. maybe it's aerosols. they plot that. then they plot co2 and it's a totally mirrored correlation. it goes right up, the temperature rise goes right to the co2. i'm with david, that's good news actually. it means we can fix it.

i happen to believe we to facebook add that i thought would be a great success it wasn't so great. but it basically made the point great news, it's us. because if it is us we can fix it. if it is not us we are hosed, i think it's consistent with a can-do american spiritual say roll up your sleeves and let's get to work. how are you going to fix it. some people think regulation but maybe we can think fix it with free prize innovation. -- free enterprise innovation. i think there's every reason to be happy or excited about the fact that we can fix this. otherwise it would be doom and gloom. host: dell in charlotte, north

carolina, independent line. caller: first i want to say i'm grateful they have an african american woman hosting the show. i'm proud of you. i want to say that we are providing underlining excuses for problems that were created long ago that we want our people out in the economy in the modern era to pay for. for example, white people left africa came to america. when they came to america and at a chance to start again they started shooting rockets and ships in the ozone layers they broke the ozone layers to make money and finding profitability. now people are saying we are not going to survive here, time is running out. we have to find another planet to live on so they're able to

inhabit it are dna, because our dna is different. their veins are green -- blue and hours are read. when these things start to take a toll on us as a society. people have been trying to provide some innovation in society for progress at clashes with the history we created society. we are asking people to pay for people who decided that they were going to allow progress to overrule what the majority was going to be for the sake of continuing history. host: we will move on to alexander in brooklyn, new york

on the democratic line. it's your question or comment? caller: i guess i have both a comment and question. my comment would go back to the arizona caller who asked the fact we are going through a major change in our temperature, on the 23rd day of temperature over 110 degrees, the ground is so hot that if you fall down on it you can get third-degree burns because the ground is 180 degrees. nova scotia had a flood that amounts to three months of water in a single day. in italy you hads of huge hail andhile the south is going through a period of warmth they have not seen in the longest time. in canada, fires are causing

smoke. having to wear a mask degree weather. the reality is ithere is no education for the population to really look at the science. i heard one of your guests say it's all about doom and gloom. the reality is we are all about doom and gloom. the u.n. reports we have to cut emissions in half by 2030 and completely by 2050 in order to have somewhat of a modest way of passing through this chaos that we are going through. right now we will hit 1.5 degrees by 2027. we will pass 2.7 degrees celsius to almost four degrees celsius before the century is over. you have to start educating people for what's to come because the reality is mitigation is not going to solve this problem.

i called before and talked about the project harnessing energy outside of the planet. and they were able to being that energy back to a building to be able to get energy. we need to look at energy that can be harnessed outside of our planet because if we keep taking resources out we will just destroy this planet even more. please educate people because it is doom and gloom and not facing the reality will put us in a worse position than we already are. host: representative i want to get your response saying we have to own up to the doom and gloom. >> we need to educate people. we also need some solution education. what we find is there's a lot of solution of version. i sound like a psychiatrist but i'm not. where you don't think we've got

a solution that fits with our values or our practicality. and therefore we doubt the existence of the problem. it sounds irrational but it's what all of us do. first we can get your head off, oh work on your spine and then put your head back on. if that's the solution i don't have a problem. what conservatives heard in america is the u.n., blue helmets on, the much loved epa in america, there can come here and regulate your breath. ok, if that's the solution i don't have a problem is what to many conservatives said. it showed not just the science, i agree the sciences crucial. it's important to get solutions that are practical american

solutions that fit with our values and will really cause the whole world to follow then people engage. i agree with the caller that education about the science but we start with the solutions. with the environmental defense fund does that really all about the of getting these in place. when people start hearing we've got practical solutions they can engage. if they feel like there's something they cannot fix, like death and taxes. you just give up. that leads to doom and gloom. we have to say you know what we can fix this and people can engage and that's when we will get action. >> we have spent a lot of time

talking about carbon dioxide. we haven't yet talked about methane. it's a super pollutant, a gas that contributes to global warming at 80 times as high as co2. with the congressman will like as part of the inflation reduction act in the past last year a market-based solution on methane that we were proud to support and help offer which establishes a price on methane emissions for companies that emit it. we are trying to rein in what they call so-called routine flaring where producers of natural gas burn off excess gas into the atmosphere which contribute mightily to climate change into emissions. the last two callers have focused on pollutions outside of our planet -- solutions outside of the planet.

most of the solutions are on our planet. i'm happy to say aed f is focusing -- say edf is focusing outside the planet. making sure we get better representation of where methane emissions are happening on earth so we can rein that in. we are mostly focused on solutions on this planet because it's the only inhabitable and we know of. that will probably remain to be the case but i'm proud to share we are not just limited to we are in fact launching a satellite to take pictures of how we are emitting solutions. >> that's really an important thing, it's so significant to know what economists in the last

year based on the price of natural gas it is economic to fix every leak in every pipeline and so if that satellite can come over and say you are leaking over there, edf becomes a really good friend to the leaker. if i can plug that leak i can sell it at the end here. that's the solution that makes people say that's really practical here. we are helping to show you are leaking over here. go fix it. you want customers in the line. it's a very practical solution we have things to fix this, it's something we can affect.

host: calling from california, denise is on the republican line. caller: i would like to just ask how stupid they think the american people are. for geo-engineering, whether engineering for 60 years or more. bill gates in one of our usurper -- at one of her universities here is putting out particles. that's all coming down into our air, we are breathing that prayed you guys don't report how many events -- of them are from arson. medical particles that planes are emitting in our skies. this is a graph, a power grab. you think we are stupid and give up our rights. they are draining all of our armaments sending them all to

ukraine, how many green jobs are there to be? millions of illegal migrants to our country that are soldier age military men. where will they get jobs from? you're trying to take control of our energy, food and water. if anybody thinks these people care about our planet or future, you are just a complete morand. host: you've major point. i'm going to go back to you representative. she represents what we hear from some conservative voters and as you can tell she was very adamant about her position that this is all a griff. >> -- that this is all a gri ft. >> we all face a bit of the

hypocrisy of her climate activists flying around in private jets. we have a different take on that. if you want to have a heated pool we say go ahead, just pay the full cost of it. once you figure out what you're paying the full cost of heating that you will probably drain it. until may or june so just bring accountability and let freedom take over. i also just want to identify about that geo-engineering. i remember going to a science committee hearing and i hadn't gotten the memo in advance and i sat down in my seat and thought what are we talking about here and i leaned over to my good friend, democrat from washington state who is chairing the committee. he said just play along. i said ok i will try to hang in here. what it struck me as is we are

doing an experiment and we are the petri dish. if it gets desperate i guess that's what you have to do. i can identify, it's a bit wild to think about splashing artillery share shells up into the air. we probably need some research on that to figure it out, but no one is doing it yet. there are things we can do short of that so we don't have to experiment and sit in the petri dish altogether. host: what can people who identify with more progressive ideology, is there anything think -- anything you think your side can do to address what you hear from conservatives who may be very skeptical of discussions about climate change and how to

address it? >> there's not a whole lot we can do to change denise's mind. i think her views are pretty well formed. i am still relatively new to edf action but i spent time working on political campaigns. what i learned on knocking doors for candidates in iowa is there are people who are persuadable and people who are not. and if you find someone who is not persuadable you should probably move on and find the next vote. so the work the congressman and republicen they are doing with the republicans to try and move in an authentically better direction on climate. we are not just talking to democrats, we are talking to independents and republicans as well. many folks who agree with us or see the need for solutions here on earth to come and join us. you can join by going to

edfaction.org/joinus. i did it as a test, you could probably do it in 15 seconds. it takes no time at all and will give you a lot more information about what's happening on the planet and ways you can roll up your sleeves. host: the next caller is in rochester new york. robin on the independent line. caller: two quick things about the relation between recycling and climate change. what is the real truth behind recycling plastic? i always hear stories about countries that really take in plastic recycling, but they don't really recycle a lot of plastic and also if recycling is truly going to have a big part of the effect on climate change,

i don't see a lot of advertising about jobs in recycling versus jobs in the solar power and wind power. >> i can take a first stab at this one. i think it is important to know where plastic comes from. it's a byproduct of fossil fuels. single use plastics is no good for our planet. recycling plastic is better than putting it in the landfill somewhere where it fills up and more energy and co2 is required to produce more of it. is recycling a good thing? absolutely. should we use less things that require recycling? yes we should. host: marion is in grovetown, georgia. democratic line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was thinking of solutions.

if the fossil fuel industry get billions in subsidies and said if they didn't it would be like 12.58 gallon of gas. if gas went up that high wouldn't that be an incentive for our brilliant scientists to come up with may be some really good ideas of how to combat climate change and also to the republican representative. i think you lose credibility when it seems like republicans always come out for climate change or whatever after they leave office. they don't seem to be, it seems like they are always -- when they leave office they start seeming more reasonable. that's a concern to me and that could lose you credibility. thank you. host: i will let you start

representative inglis. we have seen it on the campaign trail and congress, republican's are not talking about climate change. not the ones -- not talking about the way you are. >> it's back to being afraid of that one guy who has a short-term horizon. he wants to eke out one more victory. he can help you win a primary or general election but he can kill you. the angel of death. that makes it pretty scary for folks to speak out of line. it's interesting to think about the history of this. my first six years in congress i said climate change was nonsense. i didn't know anything about it except that al gore was for it and therefore i was against it because it was aware presented of a very conservative district

in south carolina. out of congress six years, ran again, my son came to me and said you need to change. saw the evidence, got inspired in another science committee trip and then became this guy about climate. and that worked fine when i was running again in 2004, 2006. 2008, a global financial crisis. it's adjusting to remember early 2008, newt gingrich on the couch with nancy pelosi. we don't agree much, but we agree climate change is real. at the end of 2008 it switched. we don't know he said and that's where would we call the decade of disastrous disputation started.

the decade ended in 2018 when i think it dawned on people at kevin mccarthy that you cannot win suburban districts with a retro position on climate change. so people like kevin the longer time horizon people are trying to change the party towards addressing things like climate change. . they want to win successive elections. they don't just have one more election in mind. that's where we are stuck. but the caller was right to say people on my side are a little bit hesitant to talk about climate. that's why we think we've got to go on the ground to help them to build a constituency because most politicians follow, they do not lead. we need to build a constituency and then they will lead that constituency because the problem is obvious. host: we will let that be the final word. former representatives bob

inglis, executive at republicen and david kieve, thank you for joining us this morning. that will be all for washington journal. i want to let you know about things coming up. a hearing on how to regulate artificial intelligence technology, the senate judiciary subcommittee hearing is live at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span three, c-span now or onlin wey afternoon, the federal reserve joe jerome powell will hold a press conference following the committee meeting. you can watch that on our mobile video app c-span now. we will return with "washington journal" tomorrow morning at

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