♪ host: good morning. it is wednesday, july 26. the president established a national monument to emmett till, the african-american boy tortured and killed in 1965.

last week, florida education officials introduced new standards on how black history should be taught in the state. we are asking how you think america's racial history should be taught. should schools teach about race relations today, or the legacy of slavery? the phone lines are regional. eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. we have a line set aside for students and educators. that is (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. send your first name and your city. we are on social media, facebook.com and twitter and instagram. welcome to washington journal. take a look at the articles from the new york times. " biden creates monument to

emmett till and fight over black history. the murder of 14-year-old emmett till and the activism of his grieving mother helped galvanize the civil rights movement in america." in 1955, the mother of emmett till wrote the president dwight eisenhower pleading for justice for her 14-year-old son, whose murder galvanized the civil rights movement. in a telegram sent to the white house she asked he personally see to it that justice is metered out to all people involved in the lynching of my son. she never heard back. on tuesday, 68 years later, another president offered her and her son the attention she had sought. president biden established a national monument honoring emmett till and his mother, a fierce advocate for her son who insisted on an open coffin at his funeral so the country could bear witness to the brutality he suffered. let's look the president's

remarks from the white house yesterday and the signing of the proclamation. [video] >> at a time when there are those who seek to ban books, very history -- bury history, we are making it crystal, crystal clear. [applause] darkness and denialism can hide much, but they erase nothing. they can hide but they erase nothing. we can't just choose what we want to know. we have to learn what we should know. we should know about our country. we should know everything, the good, the bad, the truth, who we are as a nation. that is what great nations do. we are a great nation. that is what they do. for only with truth comes

healing, justice, repair, and another step forward towards affirming a more perfect union. we have a hell of a long way to go. that is what happened. with visitors of all backgrounds to learn the history of emmett till and through -- through our national monument. telling the truth and the full history of our nation is important. it's important to her children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, to our nation as a whole. i've said it before. it was a lesson i learned coming out of the civil rights movement as a kid, public defender. pass something good and you can make a go away. hate never goes away. it just hides. it hides under the rocks.

give it a little bit of oxygen with bad people it comes roaring out again. it's up to all of us to deal with that. up to all of us to stop it. the best way to do it is with the truth. host: the president from yesterday. take a look at this poll. this came out last month in june about schools and teaching of black hist 49% of state schools have a responsibili to ensure all students learn about the ongoing 41% s schools have and racism. responsibility to teach the history of slavery and racism but not about race relations today. 11% say schools have no responsibility to teach history of slavery and racism. i wonder what you think about that and how it should be taught

and what should the teaching be about today, and about the legacy of slavery, race relations. the numbers are on your screen. eastern and central, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. we do have a line set aside for students and educators. that is (202) 748-8002. we will start with ivan calling from milwaukee. caller: good morning. as a retired educator i believe need to teach all of history. you need to teach the good, the bad, the ugly because that is life. we need to teach our young people have a solve problems, because problems are part of life. you can't hide. you can't deny it. once you teach children how to solve that problem solving skills they can deal with those things that mean not want to deal with. the reason why a lot of them are committing suicide is because they have not been taught problem-solving skills.

this is what we need to do. teach all of life. the good, the bad, the ugly, because it is a part of life. host: what grades did you teach? caller: elementary. i taught kindergarten, k-3, k fork and a gun. -- k-4, kindergarten. all of elementary for the 20 years i was in the system. i taught across the grades. i taught all of history. i did not just teach black history. i taught about native americans, jews, europeans. we need to teach all about all of our history, because that way you become aware -- a well-rounded person. you know how to interact with people from different cultures. you have a better understanding of people and how they think and do the things they do. then you become a well-rounded person. like i said, you can't hide from problems. that's a part of life.

if you're not taught how to solve problems, the next thing you know you are taking your own life. let's just teach all the history, not just one group of people's history. all of history. that will make us a better nation. host: barney is next from zephyrhills, florida. caller: how are you doing? about this race relations thing, i'm from florida. this is the most embarrassing, ridiculous -- it is beyond belief. the only reason -- they came out from under the rocks during the trump administration. this man gave him permission, ron desantis gave white people permission to do this and it's ridiculous. they are not going to change.

slavery happened. emmett till happened. all these things happened in history. it is not going to change one iota. it is absolutely beyond belief that you think people can be so ignorant to follow these kinds of conversations. every time a republican president runs the office they ir first platform is to demonize people. ronald reagan, donald trump, even ron desantis. why did they bother us? demonize your own people. we didn't take the capitol. host: barney is in florida and mentioned ron desantis. here is the insider. florida's new african-american studies program highlights the personal benefit of slavery to

black people. it says this. florida approved a new set of standards on how african-american studies should be taught. the new curriculum highlights the personal benefits of slavery to black people and it has been criticized by the naacp and florida's largest teachers union. let's clarify that. here is the actual text of the curriculum. you can see this at fldoe.org if you would like to read it for yourself. it says it examines the duties and traits performed by slaves, agricultural work, painting, carpeting, domestic service, transportation, clarification. instruction includes how slaves developed skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit. i wonder what you think about that. taking your calls up until 8:00 eastern time on this topic of how you think america's racial

history should be taught in schools. sandy in columbus, ohio. caller: good morning. listening to that last bit about the skills, the skills that slaves had when they came over here. they were not obviously vaster -- not taught by a slave master. history is intertwined. if you're going to leave parts out of your history, you are telling untruth. i said before when i called in months ago that perhaps maybe we should not teach history at all. why should our children listen to that type of history that is untrue? why should your children? in happened. -- it happened. it would not make anybody feel bad. if it does, you know, you can explain your great grandparents were wrong. you are not like that today. i don't understand why it is

always a problem when it comes to my race of people, that we've got to hide, got to be second-class, and the history is what it is. the native americans history. how they did them. all that should be taught. everything should be out in the open so we can move on and not continue down that line. but you have a set of people that want to keep it -- what they call constitutionalists, for no one is there with them. america is not made up of that. it is a nation of immigrants. thank you. host: let's look at what vice president harris said yesterday referencing the new curriculum and florida. [video] >> our history as a nation is born of tragedy and triumph. of struggle and success. that is who we are.

as people who love our country, as patriots, we know we must remember and teach our full history. even when it is painful. especially when it is painful. today there are those in our nation who would prefer to erase or even rewrite the ugly parts of our past. those who attempt to teach that enslaved people benefited from slavery. those who insult us in an attempt to gaslight us. who tried to divide our nation with unnecessary debates. let us not be seduced into believing that somehow we will be better if we forget. we will be better if we remember. we will be stronger if we remember.

because we all hear no it is -- know it is only by understanding and learning from the past we can continue to work together to build a better future. host: that was the vice president from yesterday making remarks. this is a response on twitter from ron desantis. "democrats have to lie about florida's educational standard to cover for their agenda of indoctrinating students. florida stands in their way and we will continue to expose their agenda and their lies." janet is next in massachusetts. good morning, janet. caller: good morning. i wanted to say as a white child growing up in white america i

remember learning about slavery. one thing i remember learning is that the slaves were forbidden to learn how to read and write. there are two skills they could have done a lot with. i understand that picking cotton and blacksmithing and cooking and cleaning, those are all great skills. also, wet nursing the white children. that was quite a skill. but they were not allowed to read and write and were punished if they tried. there is some skills that talk about. thank you. host: marilyn in st. louis, missouri. caller: good morning. reading and writing is a great skill. i taught reading and writing. i taught a grea -- lower

grades. we should all know our history. my people came from another country. my father was always wanted vindication. he wanted us to read. i read six books a week. constantly reading. i would teach everyone to read. we should know our history of this country. we have a great history. one of the few countries that pulled ourselves up by her bootstraps and gave every child that wanted an education. i did my best with everyone that i taught if i could. host: diana in dallas, texas. caller: good morning. this is my opinion. it is necessary to know where you come from to know where you're going.

we were not able to read and write [indiscernible] we did not have a choice. we worked out in the field. they did not give us a choice. let's keep things straight. don't act like they did us a favor. we were not given the choice. let's keep things straight and in order. host: let's take a look at this quote from the tallahassee democrat artle one governor ron desantis sned the stop woke act last year, it ohibited any teaching that could make students feel bear "personal responsibility, guilt, anguish, or other forms of pogical distr for

actions in the pasitted by members of their own race. and blocked instructions that suggested anyone was either ileged or oppressed bas race or skin color. it also requires discussions about race to be taught in an objective manner and bands discussion used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point ofiew. wonder what you think about that. we are taking your calls. kathleen in new york. good morning. caller: hi. good morning. this is just mind blowing in a horrible way. of course we need to know and teach history. as far as talking about the benefits, are you kidding me? they took africans out of their motherland in chains, threw them on a ship. if they got sick, they died.

it was horrible. then they come and they did not get paid for what they did. honestly, you don't think black people had skills before they came here? you take someone who they call the master and put them in africa. they probably couldn't even survive. you know what i mean? like people are resilient. they are smart. they did not bring them to america stupid. no. they were smart already. this is so upsetting. of course they are supposed to teach history. host: let me ask about what you think about current -- the current situation of race relations in america. do you think that should be taught in schools? caller: i don't see why not. the truth is the truth.

nothing in the world can change the truth. you know what i'm saying? i don't see why not. yeah. why not? yes, yes, yes. everybody needs to get along. i personally will not really ever understand why people won't or don't get along. we may look different -- host: what do you said in response to ron desantis or governor desantis objective with the stop woke act? we should not make anybody feel bad about what happened in the past. somebody's particular race committed atrocities against another race. caller: we are not robots. we have feelings. i have to be honest with you. i don't even know what woke means. i don't. i truly don't.

he's not a good guy. he's just not. he's not in reality. he wants to make his own world. host: let's look at response from the florida history curriculum working group members who said this. "the intent of this particular benchmark clarification is to show that some slaves developed highly speed trades from which they benefited. this is factual and well-documented. any attempt to reduce slaves to toecognize their strengths,fails courage, and resiliency during a difficult n amican history. florida students deserve to lew slaves took advantage of whatever circumstances they were in to benefit themselves and the community of african descendants." jimm, grand forks, north dakota. good morning. caller: hi mimi.

can you hear me ok? i would like you to do a fact-check for me. correct me if i'm wrong because i want to be right about this. i understand everybody's feelings about this. everybody's had something good to say and has a right to have their opinion. i believe the two scholars there at this were black guys. maybe you can clarify that. that is what i heard on the news. two black scholars created this. getting away from that, the first africans to be encountered in sub-saharan africa were encountered by arab muslims in the invasion of north africa. they were the first to enslave the black race. the next where the portuguese and the spaniards, spanish-speaking people. i don't know why black people don't get more angry with portugal. horrendous conditions. later on, the english and the dutch. i'm from northern germany, people came to pennsylvania.

what a wonderful thing it would be if we had a true critical thinking perspective for our kids. schools in philly or here in fargo. what if we immersed the kids in every different group that came here and what they went through? the germans that came to pennsylvania, they were anti-slave from the very beginning. go to the germantown historical society, the museum. the german-americans had the first public protests of slavery in the streets of germantown in 1687. they were 15 years ahead of the english leaders. germans from all the way through the midwest, they were fiercely antislave because of their work ethic, their christian heritage, and their love for the union. they were known as the lincoln men. they put lincoln in office. i was over at the library. i look for some new books. there were books about a guy named hans christian haig from

wisconsin. it was about the norwegian experience, the norwegians that came to milwaukee and settled in went towards north dakota and minnesota. they were also incredibly antislave. host: are you saying the abolitionist movement is not being taught enough? you would like to see more that? caller: i would like people of color and never gets to be immersed in understanding that white people from different cultures, many of them were antislave from the beginning. maybe if a kid is in a classroom in philly, he's taught that white kid, that german kid or that swedish kid, their fourth-generation witching kid, his ancestors try to help mine. they tried to bring unity. the second guy from florida that called talked about the demonization of black people. are you kidding me? it is whites that are demonized. the curriculum is causing more hate against the white race in america. host: all right.

david is next, detroit, michigan. caller: timing is everything. i am so glad i came behind that guy, because i think nothing could be further than the truth. nothing could be further from the truth. that you believe that teaching the truth, ok, would demonize one group against another than you make it as a -- pitting people against each other. let me digress and get to what i want to talk about. first of all, let's start with the premise that race and racism is the greatest loadbearing wall in this nation. it always has been. we can't -- it is 2023 and we are talking about race and the verlander effects of racism and slavery -- virulent

effects of racism and slavery. donald trump tells the truth. he is so transparent it blows your mind. host: tell me about how donald trump talks about race. the truth that he says about race in your opinion. caller: let me say this, allow me to say this. donald trump stood before the public and he said i love the poorly educated. he said that. that came out of his mouth. you can pull any archive. it's in the archives. he said i love poorly educated people. the people who cling to him the most are the poorly educated people. they just happen to be white people. why people don't really want to know how poorly educated they are. let me say this -- host: relating this back to how

race is taught in american schools? caller: now you're missing the point. now you're missing the point. it is not about teaching race. it's about teaching history. it's about reading. it's about absorbing. it's about appreciating the intersectionality of society. this society should be a pluralistic society where everybody comes and everybody wants to not only live the american dream, but even they want to be the american dream. people can't be or participate in this great experiment because they are agents that want to take away other people's agency. when you begin to take away other people agency, yes, you create a construct. race is just a social construct. there is no such thing as race. there are people.

there are people who come from indigenous parts of the world but there is no race. host: we've got your point. let's go to south portland, maine. shannon. caller: good morning. as a student -- i'm a little younger. i'm originally from iowa. i remember in elementary days we were taught black history. black history month. he learned about jackie robinson, martin luther king, etc. there wasn't really anything -- you learn about segregation but it's -- it never really got into -- a deep dive into it. it wasn't until middle school when i was fortunate to take a class on black history, african-american studies class, to learn about what happened to emmett till. what i learned about that i remember being so upset. i remember being, dang, i hate white people. but it took time and my teacher

was like, hey, you have to understand bad things happen but you have to understand you can't just not gloss over it. you have to teach it for what it is. i never had that experience. it would have been a long time since i would've had the same kind of experience. it is something that is important to teach. we should not be afraid to teach what happened in our country. the good, the bad, the ugly. people are just afraid of knowing what actually happened and seeing it. i don't understand. why would you feel guilty for something you didn't do? it is mindnumbing. if you think that it is on you,

no one thinks that. you have to understand that sometimes you have to put peroxide on the wound. you see what i'm saying? host: what you think about teaching the current race relations or the legacy of slavery? do you think that should be taught in schools today? caller: yes. i remember when trayvon martin happened. my social studies teacher, we did a whole course over what happened. it was a live event. i remember us going through and analyzing what happened and having our own opinions. we were able to think on our own. slavery happened. unfortunately, most of the buildings in this whole united

states are built on slavery. the ground you walk on. i remember going down to florida and being scared because i saw my friends -- we are still surrounded by slavery. it did not just up and disappear when the slaves were freed. it is still here. like the 13th amendment. host: let's take a look at some member tweets. first is representative frankel who responds to governor desantis by saying, "the governor made it his mission to erase black history from our schools just to score cheap political points. it's essential our students are exposed to the full picture of our nation's history to learn from our past and create a more just and equitable feature." this is representative darren soto. "thank you, vp for coming to florida to stand against the new teaching standard.

teaching that black people benefited from slavery is a gross misrepresentation of history. we must acknowledge the injustices of our past." this is representative yvette clarke. "at a time when our nation's most painful moments face erasure, potus names new national monument honoring emmett till and his mother. black history is american history and we will continue to preserve the legacy of black americans." perry in south dakota. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. my thoughts on this is forgiveness. forgiveness has strength. turn the other cheek. turn the other cheek is what the biblical thought is on it. forgiveness has strength in it. we are all born with consciences.

the human race has a conscience. use it. learn what has been done for you in the past. earn it. that is from the movie "saving private ryan." the dying captain said earn it. i think that would be a good idea right now. thank you very much for taking my call. host: olivia in birmingham, alabama. caller: good morning. i agree with the general and the just called in. i am a christian. i would like to say this. i want ron desantis and any white person in america that thanks we benefited from slavery -- thinks we benefited from being slavery. the woman benefit from being

raped? the men benefit from -- i want to see -- the effects of rape. don't come to me about slavery being beneficial. ron desantis and any other way person and america that believes this, slavery was not beneficial. it was an evil. it was done in our country. we have to acknowledge it. whether white people want to teach it or not, we are going to teach our children at home. we will tell them about dr. king. we will tell them about rosa parks. we will tell them about slaves. we are going to tell them about how we did not -- we benefited because we are intelligent people. we are an intelligent race of people.

god gave us intellect, not man. we were already intelligent when we were born in this country and god gave us our breath. that is the benefit of us. the mercy and grace of jesus christ that saved our souls. host: do you remember how you were taught in school about america's racial history? caller: i wasn't. my mother taught in our home. my mother taught us about everything we know about racism, slavery. our mother taught us in ou r home. we learned about george washington carver. yes, we learned our history about them, those individuals. we was not taught about the real slavery. about slavery. like i say, and i'm going back to this and i would never forget this point right here. rape was not beneficial to black

women as slaves. castration for black men, pulling a black man out of his bit and killing him. taking the young daughters and raping them, that was not beneficial. ron desantis and any white person that believed rape was beneficial, i want them to come to me right now. have a great day. host: olivia mentioned being taught at home about america's racial past. take a look at this from that penn state university poll that came out last month asking the question which group should have the most say a h to teach slavery and race. here are the results. 42% say parents of schoolchildren. 32% say it should be social studies teachers. 25% say local school boards. 25% they department of education. 21% local citizens. 17% say governors and state legislatures should have the

most say in how to teach slavery and race. terry is next from columbia, south carolina. caller: good morning. i have been teaching for about 30 something years. i taught six and seventh grade mainly. i would teach historical fiction because i felt like kids should know the history. i would teach novels like "rolling thunder, hear my cry." i had to find a way to teach it in which kids would not feel oppressed in any way. i would always try to teach both sides. at that grade level i would introduce this so they would want to read and find out more. one of the things people are not mentioning is when you talk about the things that happened to us it's a matter of who had

the power. the powers that be. i teach kids there were whites who opposed slavery. cultural groups who were helping out, but the powers that be where the forces that kept us back. i want people to know that kids need to know their history. they don't have to know the worst parts until they get old enough and teach them enough to where they would want to know more. i tried to bring people together. when i taught from that perspective kids appreciated it more. host: omar's in brooklyn, new york. good morning, omar. caller: good morning america. the most important thing to me is good morning black america. i cannot believe people are out there saying the things they are saying this morning. first of all, the relay

civilization started in africa? the africans in africa were civilized. they sent -- if they did not have militants they sent them to the balkan mountains. after all the education and whatnot we gave them books. when they got books, they learned how to be civilized. right now you people are not even acting civilized. do you realize the black people here in america, like my family this been here for seven generations, all the struggles we've had and they are still happening today? the same thing martin and falcon were talking about 60 -- malcom were talking about 60 and 70 years ago. look at me. i'm a private school educated black man. i have a degree.

i'm living in new york city and i can even afford to live in my town. i can't even find a job. where is the benefit? i can protect a whole network as a cybersecurity expert but i cannot get a job with no felonies. i'm not even a criminal. i'm not saying that to make it sound like black people earl criminals. where's the benefit? i go to the interviews and the people turned me down. two or three interviews, public sector jobs. i'm not even trying to get jobs in the private sector. where's the benefit? you look at people that are billionaires that are black and say everything is great. they have a tribute to jay-z at the brooklyn public library. i'm sure he's never even been in that library but he's a billionaire. meanwhile i'm struggling a here and most black people are struggling here. you try to tell me that slavery was beneficial.

it was beneficial when the blacks are being castrated like that lady said? what is going on with help? -- ya'll? you people started killing black people because they were set free by abraham lincoln. they put codes in to help people -- stop people from getting jobs and houses. everybody from other countries and you're giving them -- they gave the irish land. they taught them how to cultivate the land. they did not even teach black people to have that is. through slavery. at the same time we did not get those opportunities to get land. we did not get those opportunities to get houses. black people after slavery were sitting outside of the plantation. they created a loitering law to prevent them from staying outside. same thing is happening here in the city with migrants. they are sitting outside because

and have a job or place to live. people are complaining about it. host: good luck finding a job. take a look at some more tweets from members of congress. here is representative chantel brown. "across the country extreme as politicians are trying to erase, ban and rewrite black history. the emmett till and maybe till mobley monument preserves our history by reminding us of the gains of the past and our ongoing fight for progress." here is senator manny ds. "better to remain silent every thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. florida is focused on teaching true and accurate african-american history. if you read our state's standards, you would know that." this is what secretary of education cardona said. "i refuse to stay silent as florida's leaders try to censor history, gas lighting communities of color.

our children need to know our history. the good and the ugly parts, so we can raise a generation that will not repeat its mistakes." let's go to florida and jay. good morning. jay, are you there? caller: good morning. this is such an interesting conversation. thank you so very much. i should have had more coffee. to get to your point and the question, this is my first time calling in to have any kind of way in on the disc -- weigh in on the discussion. it is critical that we respect the nuances of the many things that come in to play when we are talking about racial history and the foundation for me has to be four basic things. first it has to be teaching and modeling critical thinking and

compassion. those two things have to be critical foundation points for anything you are going to teach that flies in the face of what we have currently been teaching, the good, the bad, and the ugly. oh, black history is about slavery and it's about the redemption of slavery with civil rights movement, because those things are accurate and a way but not fully -- in a way but not fully. teaching and modeling critical thinking skills and compassion. question who is giving you this information. where is it coming from and why? what can you find out on your own? as we move from those places and continue to build upon the foundation of teaching radical thinking skills and teaching compassion and modeling these things we can then open up the space to introduce things that are scientifically, historically correct.

when i say that i mean teaching from the space of asking questions like where did whiteness come from? european-american ancestors were not going around calling themselves white people. africans and traditional africans and continental africans were not calling themselves black people. where did this term whiteness come from? understanding where that came from and how the beginnings of the separation of race and race being a thing, how it became a social construct. the path of deviation from being the human race into what is now all these racial differences. racial constructs are a social construct. it was built around the system that was meant to disempower people and take away their rights, period. it wasn't originally because

whites were intentionally being pitted against blacks. that is not what the history of the data suggests. when you pair that with teaching about where the term whiteness came from in the americas, but also pairing that with the dna and scientific evidence, where did civilization begin? we know these things. we have historical evidence supporting where civilization begin. the horn of africa. the heart of africa. teaching about things that are scientifically and historically correct as we know them to be now. dna structure and the things that supports what we know and beginning to piece together the information to help others refine their critical thinking skills and the compassion. being born of compassion and understanding along with the critical thinking is what opens up the space for folks to question why we are talking about this in this way.

i understand why they seem so angry. this was done on my family. my great-grandmother, great grandfather, whoever. some of those very same rights were still at play in how we live our daily lives, he would give people the area in place to understand and be more compassionate. they are seeing the injustice that is still showing up in our daily lives today. host: we will stick with georgia and go to canton, georgia. earl, good morning. caller: good morning. host: what do you think, earl? caller: i got a little story and family history. cherokee county, georgia. a lot of people are not going to hear this that don't want to hear this. my great-grandmother was an indigenous.

is nearly 3000 or 4000 acres in the beginning. i have about 40 acres of that land, which i would not dare sell it. did you hang up? host: i'm listening. caller: ok, sorry. if i get interrupted i will lose track. their offspring, my great great grandmother and great-great-grandfather's offspring -- my great great grandmother was married to a white man. their offspring, elias earl field. the consensus of 1850 or 1860, he was the richest man in cherokee county. what's at that time was all of north georgia about the chattahoochee river. it goes on to say he had 39 slaves. i knew that because it is my

family. i did not realize it until i saw this in the history of. but the people that inherited -- my inheritance, i maintain what i've got. everyone else in my family here -- my mother was married twice before she married my dad and there are several of them. they all sold their land to the real estate developers. to me that is disgusting. you can see all this. host: how is this related to how america should teach racial history in schools? caller: in the graveyard there have been 100 unmarked gravestones about a foot above the ground. they are not marked. they are all to the east of where my great grandparents, my

mother, her brothers and all of them are buried. they are closer together. i put this out on the cherokee history group. some guy says those are pioneers. those were people that were small children. and there were slaves. i say all of them were enslaved people to myself, but they will cover up the people that are already buried there because this is cherokee county, georgia. they won't get past their history. they don't want you to know it. i'm trying to black people know it -- to let people know as much as i can. host: richard from chattanooga, tennessee. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: i'm doing great. caller: as i look at this in the introspective white and we are talking about rewriting history, it's impossible to rewrite anything. as a black man in america i think it is about what are we

going to do going forward? what are we going to do as it applies to having a black president at one time, barack obama, that made a lot of policies and things like that that could have a real tone for us to do some introspective work as it applies to having a platform to give our children an identity of how we have been affected by the things that occurred to us in this country. i think the ignorance is when we look for other cultures and people to lay down a perspective of what we have been through but not personally. we are applying things that the older woman said earlier that her mom taught her. her mom taught her only what she knew. sometimes in the process of this we are getting false information.

host: are you still there, richard? caller: we give false information based on what our parents thought they knew. the more we move away from the actual events of america, the more it gets diluted. the more we look at it from the biblical standpoint, we identify with other things that don't apply. host: ok. let's look at what florida governor ron desantis said speaking at an event for moms liberty last month, talking about the florida curriculum. [video] >> one of the things we have done since we are the third-largest date, we have been actively involved in rejecting textbooks that have ideological indoctrination. unfortunately, you have seen woke in math books. some of the social studies books were totally off the rocker. we raised the objection and sent them back. guess what happens because we are and 800 pound gorilla?

they made the appropriate changes to the textbooks. we are winning on that issue. [applause] that is one of the reasons we have been able to do it, because we have taken action to be very clear on our standards. that among other things we do not allow things like critical race theory in our k-12 schools. we are not teaching kids to hate our country or to hate each other with your tax dollars. no, we will teach true history and we will teach it very accurately. host: that is governor ron desantis. we have a few more minutes left in the segment on america's racial history and how it should be taught. we are taking your calls. john from asheville, north carolina. hello. are you there? caller: yes. i'm from fayetteville. host: sorry about that. caller: i was listening to the

program and interesting to say when they say true history archer identity -- and true identity. it should be taught in books. i'm 56 years old. when i was in a limiter school and middle school we learned about george washington, abraham lincoln, so on and so many others. i think slavery is something a young child should know when they are coming up. they have the opportunity to go into the libraries. i don't think they are going to the library. the truth will set anyone free. the truth don't make when angry. -- don't make them angry. understanding the situation about slavery, most

african-americans won't know because they will not go to a book. you are helping provide them information so they can go to the resources and learn on their own. it's a situation -- hollywood made movies like "roots" and there were things going on. that was on the big screen. what is wrong with teaching the kids in the books in the schools? that is where education start at. if there's going to be true education let us start at the beginning because the beginning is best. that is my take on that, because everyone knows slavery was a bad time. teaching it will not make someone angry or take them outside their comfort zone. it is going to make them more educated to understand slavery took place.

it's a situation we have to deal with. our great-great-grandparents had a deal with those situations, but it only made us stronger people. host: let's talk to ken in washington, d.c. caller: how are you? specific history lesson will be directed at jim from the suburbs of philadelphia. you can fact-check me but i believe the santas went to harvard. harvard also had a prominent rise in their history because they got a proximally 70 slaves or so. this history lesson is directed at jim rubble or whatever his name was. 41 of the 56 people that signed the decoration of independence were slave owners. it's an interesting dichotomy to try to understand why someone would want this legislation in the first place. why someone would push this particular agenda. not just the subject matter.

why push the agenda? the agenda of changing language to socially engineer children into looking at america's poisonous history as something other than what it is. that same man jim in the suburbs of philadelphia, in 1985, there was an aerial bombing of a black community. they were attacked. napalm was dropped on the city square. the other aerial attack was in a black community in tulsa, oklahoma, where white men dropped bombs along a prosperous black unity. if you want history, it might hurt, just like getting vaccinated. there is a term. i believe it was dr. sandal cartwright in the 1800s it hypothesized tancredo mental

illness called trip to mania. it was the belief that slavery -- they chose to escape. he listed a number of ways to help people escape this mental illness. host: are you an educator? caller: i'm a self-proclaimed educator. i tell the truth and i talked to the youth as often as i possibly can. i think i have read the same books most of these historians have read. i do consider myself -- i'm in law enforcement but i teach every chance i get. host: all right. vallejo, california. john, good morning. caller: how are you doing? i am calling and listening to the show and whatnot. my opinions or observation is

that history is being made every single day, right? the show is about the history -- the history being taught in florida. history, you can take what you want from history and misconstrue it to fit your agenda or whatever. when you talk about slavery people cannot talk about slavery and exclude indentured servitude, because indentured servitude was a part of that as well. up until the emancipation proclamation. then, like one lady said about black and white and this and that, people did not call themselves that. it is like if you have a german person and a russian person and australian person, everybody would say they are white.

their nationality is something different. just like with the holocaust you had all these people being killed by hitler r whatever, they were all labeled black. they had a black label on themselves. they knew they were of her ed -- for execution. black people, so black people were called negros. the persons that are doing this agenda and the florida school he is telling his side of the story, but like i say, you pick out what you want and then create a curriculum based upon that.

so, i do not necessarily agree with what they are teaching because we all have to know who our family histories are first. host: we are out of time. thanks to everyone that called in. we will return to this question during open forum. if you did not get a chance to share your thoughts, you have a chance to do so later in the program. coming up on washington journal, stef kight previews secretary mayorkas' congressional testimony and later hunter biden is due to appear in court today. tom didn't joins us with his take on this so far. we will be right back -- tom fitton joins us with his take on this so far. we will be right back. ♪

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] american history tv, saturdays on c-span ii features events that tell the american story. -- library of congress. event -- with the president ascension to the white house. at 9:30 p.m. eastern individuals that served back-to-back terms in the white house exploring the american story. watch american history tv turdays on c-span 2 or find a full schedule of the program guide or watch anytime online on c-span.org -- history -- c-span.org/history. announcer: live on in depth.

our guest talks about native american history, the civil war, and more. mr. gwynn has published several books -- his latest his majesties airship about a british -- that went up in flames in the 1930's. join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comment, and texts. this is live sunday, august 6 on book tv on c-span 2. announcer: healthy democracy does not just look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy work. citizens are truly in armed. a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to

wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what dimock c looks like -- this is what democracy looks like. our by c-span. announcer: washington journal continues. host: welcome back i am joined by stef kight. thank you for joining the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: we have a hearing we will cover today on c-span 3. homeland surity may arcus -- mayorkas' appearance before congress. you can watch that at 10:00 a.m. on c-span 3 you can also watch it on c-span now the free

video mobile app or on c-span.org. what do you expect from this? guest: we expect the republicans to go hard. he has been on the top of the list that they have a washington impeachment inquiry on. and jim jordan has been told to be ready for all kinds of statistics to provide. they want to drill in numbers and show that they are releasing more people than they are supposed to be releasing at the order. this comes -- at the border. and this is after a high in may

-- what is that based on and where does it stand now? guest: the argument is that secretory mayorkas in his role of overseeing immigration agency has allowed more people to cross the border whether it is by canceling in the trump policy or by some of his language toward them earlier on that they think was welcoming illegal immigration across the border. they also have several moments where they feel like he was not truthful about the security at the border at any given time. and this also fits around a large number that we have seen at the border. we see homeland security already releasing a detailed were oort -- detailed report of why they think that. at the end of the day they will

begin -- if they decide to move forward. host: i will remind people that you can call us on our lines by party affiliation if you would like to share a comment or question. the numbers are democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. we also have a line set aside if you live in a border state. a southern border and that number is democrats (202) 748-8000. and we are also on facebook or twitter. and it says that they double down on impeachment even as the border numbers plummet. put that in perspective for us what is it mean that the numbers have plummeted? guest: we are looking at the june monthly numbers. the number of people crossing the border -- it did not show up

at illegal entry points across the border. and those who were apprehended by border patrol. the number fell below 100,000 in the month of june. the first time we have seen less than 100,000 since the start of the biden administration. it is still high, but it is starting to get down to the typical numbers we see crossing the border illegally at this point in the year. this is the second time in the road that the numbers have ticked down the. this comes after the end of the pandemic lessee called -- pandemic policy called title 42. internal officials at dhs and others were worried that the end of the policy would trigger a huge rush on the border. instead we have seen numbers decline and that is significant and good news for the biden administration who has struggled with this from the beginning. host: my have the numbers come down? guest: the administration --

host: why have the numbers come down? guest: there are two opinions on that. there's never an easy answer to this. but there are several harsh policies. ending title 42 means that when someone crosses illegally and they are imported, there is a five year -- they are deported there is a five year and on reentry. -- there was no real consequence before title 42 for crossing the border. so we would see people are trying to cross multiple times. but the administration also rolled out an asylum exemption for those that cross the boarder illegally and they do not have -- the border illegally.

they do not have -- this is one thing they pointed to saying people do not want to face these consequences. and parole policies where the new administration has not -- republicans need a piece of this to be generous and allowing too many people to come in that have illegally crossed. they say the boat -- biden administration is still true this assess. host: how do you qualify for this process? guest: in cuba, haiti, those are the larger demographics that we see at the u.s. mexico border. they can apply from wherever they are online. and if they are approved, they can be flown in or across the u.s. through an illegal pathway. there not just encountering border patrol day are coming in through a more orderly process and allowed two years to stay in

the u.s. while they pursue other immigration claims they may want to pursue. host: an article this happened yesterday. they say district strict border rule. what happens and what was the ruling in that case? guest: this is the asylum restriction rule where many democrats and advocates have criticized for being too harsh and restrictive for asylum-seekers. the judge ruled is essentially that you cannot prevent people from seeking asylum just because they did not seek protection in a third country. and you cannot prevent people -- people from seeking asylum even if they cross the border illegally. and one thing that a judge ruled similarly on a similar program on the trump administration. the judge sticks to this rule in the past administration. they say that it is appealing and they think it is important

that they will be able to use the policy -- over the past few years. host: we only have two weeks before it goes into effect. it does not sound like a lot of time. guest: it is not. they asked for an emergency stay so they could continue to work on the policy. but if they are forced to end the policy like the court ordered, it is a lot of question of what it could mean at the border. i spoke with the border democrat and he was concerned about the ruling concerned of if it may lead to another search on the border. host: this case was brought by critics of the biden administration policy which are -- it is interesting because it seems like it would be a lot more coming to the border. guest: yeah this is a good example of how the biden

administration faced challenges from both sides of the aisle. this case was cheered on by immigration advocates and was cheered on by democrats as well. the administration has become too harsh in the border policies and doing too much to restrict people from getting asylum. they are overreaching in that way. we see the administration struggling to thread the needle. host: i want to show you a text we got in california. he said mayorkas has failed at the border. and his responses are indicative of someone who has no clue of real numbers. obviously that is what a lot of republicans and lawmakers think of them as well. is he less popular if we can use that term then the secretaries of the past have been? guest: that is a tough question because on one hand it seems

that way. he is certainly the target from a a lot of republicans but i also think a lot of this you have to put in. a political context the administration and border have become a central issue for republican. it becomes a bigger focus for them. we see that on the campaign trail, especially with trump in 2015 and 2016. and that is also with republicans in charge of the house. multiple committees want to investigate the border issue. some of it has to do with the way it has been politicized. mayorkas is the main person in the administration has focused on immigration. he is going to become the focus of any democratic administration when it comes to republican. but as far as the push for impeachment, do you think that will go anywhere or is that just rhetoric? guest: we will see. i will say the fact that republicans are so focused on

president biden and the hunter biden allegations that focus may be shifting when it comes to him each met in worries -- impeachment inquiries. i do think we should keep in i -- keep an eye on this. host: and this is from mary of cleveland. -- governor abbott placing buoys and razor wire that could kill people for crossing the border. the number of people crossing has declined, i have no interest in a maga hearing. and i was just about to bring that up because this is in this article. justice department sued texas over a floating area or in rio grande in order to deter migrant crossing. this is days after they notified

him after the intent to sue unless the state removes the buoys by monday afternoon. so what is going on with that and what can be done? guest: the biden administration did sue the state of texas for putting this floating barrier in the rio grande. they informed them that they were intending to sue over the issue. they have taken drastic measures to take immigration enforcement in their own hands in taxes. governor abs it -- governor abbott has sent the national guard and police to the border. there are police shouting at migrants to turn around and there is a barrier which is especially important. and with mexico it is morning that it could be infringing on national waters and mexico does not want that. that is the focus of the lawsuit that texas does not have the right to put a floating device in the water there. host: governor abbott has dug

in. he said he's not going to remove them. what is the timeline? what is happening as far as what is the next thing? guest: admit is -- governor abbott is no stranger with going to the court with the biden administration over immigration. this is really just the heated debate and fight between texas and the biden administration over how to handle immigration policy with texas having the border with mexico and the issue that matters to the people of texas. governor abbott sees this as a political issue for him as well but there is concern with immigration as a federal entity that federal government is supposed to be in charge of it. so we see this heat out -- heat up even more than it has over the past few years. host: we go to our color,

democrat. good morning. caller: -- democrat caller. good morning. caller: [indiscernible] host: sorry about that. we go to louisiana. good morning. caller: good morning i have learned so much since i started watching. i am not for immigration, nobody should be taught anything except america. host: we have actually moved on from that topic of teaching race in america, did you have something about the border? nope. lucienne kemp, texas. good morning. caller: good morning how are you? i would just like to say that it is very interesting to me and i

would love for people to call in and say their opinion on this subject. the word illegal means against the law. i don't hear anybody saying anything about illegal immigrants. all these people are illegal. coming across the border. it is against the law and they need to be stopped. host: are you talking about the term illegal immigrant as opposed to like undocumented immigrant that kind of thing, lucy? is that the question? caller: they are illegal. it is against the law to cross the border the way they are doing it. my son in law was an immigration attorney. he was bringing people in the country legally where they have a background check and they have a sponsor or a job and they come

over here. they pay taxes and become citizens. the same day that is happening, thousands of people are coming across the mexican border illegally. i hear nothing about illegal. it is against the law. they need to be stopped and done properly. host: ok we got it. comments? guest: thank you. i think i did mention people are crossing the border illegally. people are desperate and running across the border however they can. i will note help -- regardless of however somebody crosses the border they have the legal right to seek asylum in the u.s.. that has been a historical precedent in the u.s. regardless of how people cross it especially if someone is desperate enough to be seeking protection in another country. it is likely that they may take less time to get to the right entry point.

yes, people get -- cross illegally, but once they are on u.s. soil they have the right to go through that process. this is something the biden trying to navigate. it is a difficult thing to change and they can only go so far in restricting people. host: harry is in massachusetts. good morning. democrat. caller: hello i get offended by people who called other people illegal. they are the bigots in the world and they are largely republican let's face it. there are two types of people in america. there is one that can see trump coming miles away and the other kind is seeing trump coming from miles away. republicans care about one thing, gaining power. they have no interest in serving the people. host: did you have a comment

about the border? caller: the border is not being addressed by republicans ever and less they are out of power. i do not see the border as being a big deal. in fact, i am pro-immigration. we need more immigrants coming in. we will never be able to sizzle -- settle the situation unless we have common sense laws and rules for coming across. republicans will never address that. host: that has been the pushback on the talk of impeaching may your kiss -- mayorkas they say this is not our problem you guys as lawmakers have to fix the border and pass legislation. what you have to say on that? guest: yes the fact of the matter is that years and years the u.s. -- since the u.s. adjusted immigration law. the demand at the u.s. mexico

border has changed drastically. any administration will have their hands tied as to what they can do to bring order and make sure that migrants and asylum-seekers are kept safe at the border. a lot of this is because of outdated immigration systems and laws. it is becoming increasingly divisive on the political stage and it is harder to see a world of congress where they passed that stage. host: gail in oceanside, new york. republican. good morning. caller: good morning i am for illegal -- legal immigration i am not for illegal immigration and misses why. -- this is why. i'm 65 and the only reason i'm telling you that is so you can have a time reference of when this happened. my great great grandparents came here from italy they had infants with polio.

boy and girl. and they were told that they are not allowed to bring two people that have polio in the united states. they had no choice they had to go they were starving in italy. they let the 16-year-old in a convent in italy. they came to america. they were not allowed to bring her in illegal -- legally so my great aunt stayed in the convent from 16 years old until 26 until she was legally old enough to come in the country. that is why i do get upset with illegal immigration. it is right we are wrong. that is my comments. host: any comments on that? guest: i would just say this is something we hear from a lot of people. they want to see people come into the country legally. why we see so many people taking the risk to across the border illegally is because of how few options there are to come to the u.s. through legal means and how long the process takes because of our outdated law and the

backlog system. the fact that there are so few ways into the u.s.. through legal means. it is a huge driver in the migration we been seeing. host: paul is in south carolina. independent. caller: correct. host: go ahead. caller: what we've got to look at is what is legally asylum. what does that mean? i think the law says that you've got to be a border state of the country. mexico are a border state, canada is a border state. russia is not a border state. south america for mexico are not a border state. china is not a border state. 130 countries on border states where asylum, i believe the law reads that you have to be a border state. -- i mean country.

you cannot just come into a country from another country to get into our country for asylum. host: ok let's check on that one is the law around who can seek asylum? guest: it is anyone who crosses into u.s. can apply for asylum it. host: where ever come from? guest: yes, as long as you are in the u.s.. the way it works you actually have to be in the u.s. to live for asylum. and as he points out, we have seen an increase from people all over the world deciding to make the dangerous trek to the u.s. mexico border sometimes through multiple countries is to get to the border to make the same asylum. that shows how few options people feel like they have. host: michelle in tucson, arizona. michelle? caller: yes, i am an independent. i have lived here since 79. i really believe that mayorkas

needs to go. my heart aches for sheriff lamb. it is a mess. how bad it's going to take to get into tucson with all of this . other ranchers have dealt with destruction. so much is going on. i am all for what governor abbott is doing. host: so, michelle what is happening in tucson exactly? what are you seeing? caller: i'm seeing a lot of people that actually -- i called him illegal aliens and i shall do that. i am seeing tucson, tucson is torrid now. you know, and i am in fear. i really am. the cartels and drugs and people doing drugs in the street it is horrid. it is horrid. i came from the east coast. it is almost like, oh dear,

where do i go now? host: alright let's get a response. guest: there certainly many border areas that are dealing with the impact of the large number of people coming into the u.s. and that certainly presents challenges for communities and law enforcement and hospitals. that is a real issue and is something that cities and border states have navigated for a long time. i understand the concern they are. and there is also the issue of fentanyl. that is an issue that the biden administration is trying to crack down on. we see an increase of the sentinel -- fentanyl coming across the border into the u.s.. we see cities all across the country trying to figure out how do we create policy that welcomes migrants and also allowing communities to be able to handle them. host: let's talk to colleen in maxi -- in georgia.

democrat. caller: yes ma'am. for me, when i hear illegal immigration, illegal immigration is just confusing to me. i remember donald trump wives that were able to come to the united states when everybody else stayed in line. but it is ok when you see this poor people who are coming for one dollar. they are not coming because they have immigration or want to be had america they are running away from something that is horrible. and when you talk about that -- immigration. that is not immigration. the idea of making sure that we

are protecting with that and we cannot protect it. in the days of slavery that was ignored because during slavery no white people ever knew it was wrong. in the same thing they are doing to this people now. host: we are running low on time let's get a response. guest: you raise an important point. it is important to remember how much migrants go through just to get to the u.s. border. i had an opportunity to speak with the young venezuelan family when i was in el paso earlier this year and they were navigating the gap between colombia and panama. the horrors they face their were really horrific. they told that they were attacked by criminals while trying to make their way through the jungle, they had things stolen, yet they still come. they are so relieved when i talked to them. they've been sitting in a homeless shelter for over a week by the time i was able to talk

with them and they were still so relieved to be where they where. they did not have prospects and did not know where they were going next. they were trying to figure it all out. people are leading desperate situations and they are willing to risk our lives just for a chance at asylum. that is part of his whole complicated story you have to keep in mind. host: politics reporter for axios. they see their work at axios.com. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having me. host: you probably need to get to a hearing that is coming out today at 10:00 a.m. after this program come in and secretory mayorkas will discuss immigration and border security. you can much the testimony today before the house judiciary committee at 10 a.m. eastern on sees and -- on c-span 3, c-span now our free video mobile app,

or on c-span.org. judicial president watch tom fitton with a discussion of the progress so far. and we also discussed the upcoming spending and the degrasse and all -- and the congressional news of the day. all events coming up next. stick with us. ♪ announcer: a year before arkansas, little rock central high school was desegregated, 12 black students in clinton, tennessee enrolled by court mandate in the full semester. sunday night on q&a, historian

luis mark and -- margin other of the book the most tolerant little town talk about the students that desegregated the first school in the south following the board of education. >> after vote school was let out a black girl was pushed down, another like woman had a bottle thrown at her. some kids try to rough up black teenagers who had nothing to do with the desegregation. that night, white segregationist protesters take over the courthouse square and host for first series of nightly rallies getting everybody all riled up about the sick -- desegregation and what is happening. by the next morning, there are many more people outside of the school and it is a lot more contentious and headed towards violence. announcer: racial louise martin her book a most tolerant little

town sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span q&a. you can listen to q&a on all of our podcasts or on c-span now app. announcer: book tv every da -- every sunday on c-span two features authors discussing their latest nonfiction book. at nine em eastern -- 9 p.m. eastern -- author of go big shares how republicans can use his marketing strategies to attract donors a supporters. and former political consultant lloyd brown discussehis book counterpunch and what he calls for a new independent populist movement to counter the left in amica. at 10:00 eastern on afterwards, the u.s. court of appeals judge discusses the block of the supreme court justice clarence thomas. thomas is key opinion are

disgusted in his book -- discussed in his book -- watch book tv on c-span2 on sunday. find the full program on your tv guide or watch any time i at book on board. -- book tv.org. announcer: if you joining book tv, sign up for the newsletter on the screen to see author discussions, book festivals and more. book tv every sunday on c-span 2, or anytime online at book tv.org for television or series readers. announcer: washington journal continues. host: welcome back. i am joined now via tom fitton. he is the president of judicial watch. welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: joe biden will be welcome

to the court today. where the crimes he has been charged with and what are you watching? guest: it is misdemeanor charges related to failed to file taxes. there has been talk about this other charge, but i do not think he will be charge they are, there will be a diversion. there will be no criminal charges related to his lying on the federal forms related to his drug use which is supposed to disclose when you are purchasing a gun on the federal forum. he did not do that, rather than charging him with a crime, they are charitably diverting him to another program. it has nothing to do with criminal sanction. the big test here or the controversy is whether there were felonies that were ignored by this justice department, whether there was obstruction of information that could have impacted the way the justice

department pursued and handled these crimes. and i don't know what the court will do with all of that. -- highlighting the corruption and the unjust us -- injustice that may have subverted this process. host: we will get to all about but i want to remind our viewers if you would like to call in and make a comment we will take your calls here shortly. the lines are democrats (202) 748-8000, republicans (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. usa today's says did hunter biden get a sweetheart deal? host: what you think about that

did he get a sweetheart deal? guest: of course he did. it is one thing to say he had universal charges and this is what he is pleading to. it is another thing to ignore the criminality and pretend the plea has anything to do with the broader issue. you have information for instance that the fbi had that there was $10 million brought by hunter biden and joe biden collectively. was that an issue when there were pleading this out? there are foreign registration act conspiracies, money laundering, crimes that seemingly would be rays given all the evidence coming out for congress to expose. if none of that has been pursued that is obviously a sweetheart deal. it is criminal information that you murdered someone and the government comes in and gives you ugly plea for jaywalking,

that by definition is a sweetheart deal. host: sticking with the misdemeanors, take a look at this. this is maggie gomez attacks attorneyrmer irs lawyer sayingas a attorney who spent her entire career nearly 40 years working as an att for the irsnd ascending taxpayers before the irs. i can tell you i had numerous clients who owed the irs substantial number of taxes and they are not prosecuted. what is your thought of that? guest: that is not responsive to the issue here. did they allow it to go up charged -- they set on the charges meaning alleging bride money came in. -- bribe money came in. -- obviously there are cases where people are back taxed and

they are not charge. this is not the case here. what needs to be grappled with is that we have one testimony before congress that the justice department interfered to stop investigation related to the charges of joe biden and his family and to curtail the charges against hunter. host: following the plea deal your organization judicial launch food congress said that they now have no choice then to have a impeachment inquiry into joe biden and merrick garland. on what grounds? guest: we've been saying joe biden for some time but merrick garland may be new. they need to investigate these issues. there is no evidence that they will, the impeachment of joe biden relates to the evidence and criminality from his days as

vice president. he continues to lie about his being compromised because of the money that his family and he seemingly had from ongoing obstruction by the justice department. the evidence is strong that there was obstruction of justice in the justice department in the u.s. investigation into joe biden. what i advocate for is an impeachment inquiry. are these issues important enough for people to want impeachment of the president of the united states. joe biden. certainly, yes, this investigation should be transformed into an impeachment inquiry and i am hoping that speaker mccarthy is signing on to that way of proceeding. it will -- if it will result in an impeachment of joe biden, i don't know. you will never get that in do not get an inquiry. host: abc news is reporting the

former hunter biden associates have closed-door testimony with the house oversight committee. this is devon archer. can you tell us who this is and why will it be a closed-door hearing? guest: that is a fair question. i would like for them to go on in public and investigators would like to get with that. host: c-span does as well. guest: they get behind closed doors before they ring them out for testimony. but devon archer is a long-time business partner of hunter biden. he is prepared to testify in reports that joe biden was repeatedly put on the phone at hunter's business partners. -- your listeners and viewers recall of the other individual that was a partner of biden as well. that was when he had the vice presidency. he was heavily involved and

directly evolved many of the business deals that we would argue should be the subject of criminal investigation. if he testified that joe biden was directly involved on the biden business, i, again, whether i want impeachment or not or inquiry or not, i do not see how it is avoidable. host: if you were on the committee what would you ask devon archer? what do you want to know from him? guest: what was he involved with for joe biden in these arrangements. and why were you getting this money, why were these foreign interests giving you this money? what did they want in return? what did the chinese energy company want in return? what did the romanians want in return? and you see the vice president's office as a selling point. what was joe biden's role in

that? was he benefiting from the moneys that you are getting for the companies. what was your understanding their? we have testimony or evidence in the fbi document to 23 that the ceo burisma gave the money in exchange for intervention to keep his company by being investigated by ukraine prosecutors. i do not think it is a coincidence that that response was shut down by joe biden through his intervention. host: another testimony coming up on david white. this is the u.s. attorney in delaware investigating hunter biden. he has offered to testify before congress in the fall. what would you be looking for in that testimony? guest: the dispute with weiss is he is an attorney appointed by trump but he is a creature of the democratic party in delaware. it was approved by the denver

craddick -- democratic senators. the state approved the appointment more or less. weiss supposedly had this unreviewable authority given to him by garland to do anything he wanted in terms of prosecution of hunter biden and their related chlorides -- related crimes. and in one key meeting, he did not have that ultimate authority area the congress was -- according to the testimony of garland. and weiss changed his story about what type of authority he had. if he did not have the authority, who is making the decision not to prosecute hunter biden on these text charges more -- tax charges more aggressively? host: we will have that under of the but -- we will have that under oath.

guest: and they say in the fall i did not know what that means if it were me i would have these questions asked yesterday. host: let's get to our color questions. good morning, -- our caller questions. good morning. caller: good morning. -- both men -- both gentlemen testified that they were obstructed from their investigation into hunter biden's activities. they said particularly looking into joe biden they were told specifically do not ask questions about that or the big guy or anything about that. as far as the hearing today with hunter biden, most lawyers that i heard said that more like a ash more than likely the judge will attempt a plea bargain. that was negotiated for hunter and that will be the end of it.

basically being the republicans only to control the house of representatives, they may be able to impeach. but they have to get 68 votes in the senate to remove him. that's just not going to happen. the best case scenario is that all the truth comes out, the american people see exactly what they were doing. hopefully in the 2024 election, even though i do not personally believe that joe biden will be the candidate, i believe that he will announce by next summer that he is not running. he will be out of the picture. even if they got a conviction of hunter, joe biden would pardon it himself. this is all theater, but it is intended to give the american people all of the information. they should have impeachment hearings. this is where all the truth comes out about how corrupt the biden family is.

host: go ahead. guest: good analysis. i have a point or two at the margin. that is a persuasive way of thinking about how things will turn out. host: evan is a democrat in florida. good morning. caller: good morning i am seeing that hunter biden they are going to be charged -- he is pleading guilty and he has at least two charges. how do you -- what do you expect if you were to do -- if he were to do any jail time? and also -- host: we will move on. let's go to jason in pennsylvania. independent. caller: good morning everybody. hello tom. i just wanted to give you my deepest thanks for convincing donald trump to ignore the advice of his lawyers. that is a big reason why he is in as much trouble as he is

right now. thank you so much for doing that and have a good day all. host: do you know what he is talking about? guest: there is controversy and people assume that they know what advice i gave to donald trump on the handling of his eventual records. host: what advice did you give him? guest: i told the grand jury what my views are. the fact is he cooperated with the investigation, he turned over the needed records. there is an argument about is he turned over all of the records or if there was obstruction there but i did not see evidence of it. the fact that he was harassed and abused over this is an abuse of power by the justice department in my opinion. as far as i am concerned he cannot fight hard enough to exert his rights there. host: what you think of the timing which will come up in

may, what do you think of that regarding the election? guest: obviously the charging was election interference. the court should be very sensitive about having the judiciary being moved into engaging that president duque had of it in the middle of a primary -- presidential candidate in the middle of a primary. is it possible it takes place in may? certainly, they scheduled it. but there is a lot of reason for it to be pushed beyond the election and i suspect that ultimately will happen. host: alright san francisco, miami, florida. republican. caller: i just wanted to say that democrats and washington -- it has been dim at fault. -- democrats fault. between biden, hunter biden, everybody should be put in jail.

biden should be impeached and hunter biden should be impeached and mayorkas should be impeached. the democratic administration are communists control. they have all kinds of laws [indiscernible] no prayers in schools, no prayers and jobs, no arrears anywhere. they've gotten -- prayers anywhere. they've got god in last place and they have themselves in verse laced. i don't like that. -- in first place. i don't like that. guest: there's a lot of significant democrat corruption. my concern is that all of it has taken laced with the essence or have this response by republicans and democrats who know better. with donald trump on the justice department being fully funded by the republican there is not a

dollar falls from the sky in washington dc that is not approved by congress. especially in the justice department. if they do not like what the fbi is doing, they should defund the specifics of what they are doing or the agency more generally. host: we have a question for you that was sent to us from greg in arlington, texas by text. he said please ask if he continues to support the idea that biden did not win the election his support for the stop the steal and january 6 insurrection and attack on the capital. also, has he been called to testify to the grand jury? guest: as i said earlier i was harassed by the justice department and as to testify in the grand jury. they did ask me about the election abuse. it was a three hour debate with electors and such.

i remember thinking at the time why am i being ask about first amendment protected activity for the federal grand jury? and as i said in other formats it was like being on [indiscernible] for hours. it was political argument with the federal prosecutors that are supposed to be looking for crime and not looking at people in jail based on policy disagreements. i think the danger of what we are facing right now, it is likely that trump will be indicted now late to his disputing the election. it is that the new rule will be if you just food presidential election, they will -- if you dispute a presidential election they will -- host: i think they are asking that you support the idea that biden did not win the election. guest: i think there is a dispute between the practical winner and -- biden is the

president of united states, i think president biden, president trump had the vote to win the election on election day. the result was changed as a result of unprecedented dubious counting of ballots that occurred after election day. that has never happened before american history. we see time and time again by the justice department and the fbi and big tech to rig the system in a way that calls the outcome of the election into dispute. what is impact of that? we will have continued disputes about elections in the future about how they should be run and whether the government should intervene to try to put their thumb on the scale one way or the other. the idea is that -- saying what i said or pursue these issues under state constitutional law to me is dramatic. host: let's talk to angela next

a democrat in maryland. good morning. caller: hello. a couple points, number one, even if biden did get money from his son, i do not think that is illegal unless he actually did something using influence to get that money. if you're going to use burisma as the example you are way off base, buddy, because although the fact checkers out there and the first day of impeachment here proved that that that was not joe biden's doing. it was the department of the state. it was our government is your government because there was corruption in you rain. ed -- in ukraine at the time. and firing the prosecutor had nothing to do with his son. guest: the reality is the fact checking. we have an fbi document and other evidence that shows that

this effort by joe biden personally shut down the investigation by having emme fired with a result of the bribe. and while the state department did not like this, it may be the case, but it does not describe the basis for joe biden intervention here and his obsession with getting -- fire. host: chris in california. independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i have two short points. the first one is, a lot of people do drugs, hunter biden should have paid his taxes. i have no problem saying that, but i have always wondered, when do conservatives, republicans, whatever look in the mirror and say do we look really obsessive just pursuing this one guy with how much taxpayer resources and all that just to pursue one person?

doing nothing different than what all sorts of people do. and then second point. guest: hold on do all sorts of other people use their father who is president to get money from companies? we have evidence that he was bribe to get -- [indiscernible] what frightens me about some of the colors here base a things that -- callers here that have no base of reality it is just a talking point of political side of the aisle that they are on. i would say for both sides of bio try to figure out what the -- of the aisle try to figure out what the truth is. what we are hearing too much from democrats is they are ignoring all the significant evidence and government corruption on joe biden involving not only hunter but other family members. money laundering, producing evidence produced by mr. cole or

of the oversight committee. we have a fbi document showing a ceo admitted to bribery in burisma. this is not just having one son that got caught up in taxes because of having -- being a president son. this is interlinked and intertwined with joe biden. host: did you say you have another point? caller: that was a conspiracy theory. guest: what is a conspiracy theory that i described? caller: it is just that -- guest: you do not want to deal with the truth, sir. you did not want to deal with the truth. caller: that was lies that came out of your mouth -- and the caller but said -- guest: what did i say? [laughter] caller: are you willing to imply

that what you said about the -- you had to do within election -- two years ago. guest: what did i say two years ago about it? host: that they were unreliable. guest: i do not recall saying they were unreliable. -- i said the voting machines were not secure as they should have been. host: which means they are unreliable. guest: all of that had been said by democrats within two years of the 2020 election. that changes depending on the a outcome. people voting in the area do not like the idea of internet voting. they never liked it and they thought it was not secure enough. and the issues that you potentially face with the internet are more easily assessable to pull outside of the internet. people dealing with it directly raising questions about how secure our election should be.

and i raised specifically what my issues are. there were counting votes after the election that change the result. host: counting those that shouldn't have been counted meaning? guest: they should have been counted those that were chosen on election day not six days after. host: rick in los angeles. good morning. caller: hello good morning. the election was stolen by the deep state. the main street media, the fbi, and all of the other election interference. the reason i called is one caller said this is kabuki theater. what difference does everything else make? both companies need to be shut down, seized. they are not going to jail, why should they get to keep the money? guest: there is a lot of

frustration about the american people. all this information is coming out. there is no accountability about it or for it. it's a challenge for republicans, too. they have all these hearings. many other voters say why are we having these hearings if nothing is done about it? maybe that is why mccarthy is beginning to finally sign on potentially to an impeachment inquiry. i don't know if they'll go anywhere or not. my concern is that the content for director ray over his refusal to produce this document. as far as i know he is still refusing to reduce the document as required. so, rats are nice but follow-through is better. host: do you agree with republican efforts to expunge the impeachment of donald trump? guest: i think those impeachments are terribly corrupt. anything they can do within their powers to correct the record and correct and mitigate

that miscarriage of justice would be good. host: tom fitton, president of judicial watch, thank you for coming in. of next on washington journal, freshman democratic congressman shri thanedar discusses the upcoming government spending deadline, his goals as a freshman member, and congressional news of the day. we will be back. ♪ >> since 1979, and partnership with the cable industry, c-span has provided complete coverage of the halls of congress. from house and senate floors, to congressional hearings, party briefings, committee meetings,

c-span gives you a front row seat to how issues are debated and decided with no commentary, no interruptions, and completely unfiltered. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> if you miss any of c-span's coverage you can find it anytime online at c-span.org. videos are key hearings, debates, and other events feature markers that guide you to newsworthy highlights. these points of interest markers appear on the right-hand side of your screen when you hit play on selected videos. the timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea of what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2024

coverage is your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meeting greets, speeches, and events. to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network, c-span now, our free mobile video app, or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ >> listening to programs on c-span through c-span radio just got easier. tell your smart speaker to play c-span radio and listen to washington journal daily at 7:00 a.m. eastern, important congressional hearings throughout the day, and weekdays at 5:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. eastern catch washington today for a fast-paced report on stories of the day. listen to c-span anytime. just tell your smart speaker to play c-span radio. c-span, powered by cable. >> washington journal

continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. my guest is representative shri thanedar, a democrat from the 13th district of michigan, including detroit. congressman, welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: you are a freshman congressman with an interesting background. you have a phd in chemistry, and entrepreneur. why run for congress? guest: look, i was 24 years old living in poverty in india. i came to the united states for economic opportunities. i came here so i could lift my family out of poverty, got an education, started a small business, ran many small businesses. created hundreds of jobs across america. i felt that through hard work and some luck i was able to

achieve my american dream. but when i travel across america i saw many people don't have access to their american dream. when i saw that i said it is time for me to give back because this country of ours has given me so much. with that, i sold my business, gave some of the proceeds to all my employees, and then decided to devote the rest of my life to public service. host: let's talk about some of the issues congress agrees to raise the debt ceiling. now there is the -- they are working on agreement on the actual budget by september 30, the end of the fiscal year. how was that going and is a possible the federal government will shut down? guest: we cannot afford to shut down the federal government. it would hurt people. it would stop essential

services. we will have to furlough federal employees. that is not an option. we need to continue to keep the government going. we need to find common ground and bipartisan support so that we can find the government -- fund the government on the september 30 deadline. host: if any viewers would like to talk to the congressman you can talk by party affiliation. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. congressman, i want to show you a portion of what the members of their freedom house -- the house freedom caucus, talking about those 2024 spending bills and the possibility of shutdown. [video] >> i think what you are looking at, as i think representative could and represented rosendale have mentioned, you have some of

the 12 appropriations bills come out. you will see a short-term continuing resolution to continue spending. i'm not worried about a government shutdown at this point. i think they will continue on to try to run it up until december to be honest. that is my own perspective. i know i'm not speaking for everybody else. >> i would add we should not fear government shutdown. most of what we do appear is bad anyway. most of what we do appear hurts the american people. when we do stuff and promised to do stuff of the record people, essential operations continue. 85% continues. most of the american people will not even miss of the government is shut down temporarily. our speaker has an observation -- opportunity to be historical speaker that stares down the democrats, down the free spenders, stairs down the president and says no. we will do at the american

people elected us to do. the house is going to say no. we will pass a good republican bill out of the house and force the senate and the white house to accept it, or we will not move forward. what happens if republicans stared down the democrats and where the onesie refused to cave and but the american people. we don't fear government shutdown. host: what is your reaction to that? guest: what we cannot afford down the federal government. we had an agreement in may between the administration and the house for the debt ceiling. we need -- we agreed to a two-year flat spending. we need to honor that agreement and continue essential services. the american people are hurting. they are hurting with higher prices, inflation. the last thing we need at this stage is toppling the economy.

the last thing we need are these actions causing our economy to fail. we need to continue the federal services, help the poor, help the working class, keep working on lowering the prices, lowering the inflation to ensure that american people are able to take care of their families' needs and put their food on the table, get the education they need, keep the jobs that are essential. we need to keep this economy going. host: i want to show our viewers an article from roll call -- rollcall.com. $123 million first sign is a letter demanding deeper spending cuts. it just starts with seven of the biggest anti-spending conservative house republicans

have secured nearly $123 million worth of earmarks in the fiscal 2024 appropriations bills that they said they will oppose unless gop leaders agreed to deeper cutbacks. what do you make of that, congressman? guest: 25% of the current deficit happened under president trump. the debt ceiling was raised three times under president trump. it is a known fact that the deficit growth often happens under a republican president. this is a time for us to work together. we have come out of a covid pandemic. one of the reasons why america among all the developed nations has the fastest recovery economicly is because of investment in america.

that investment needs to continue. we need to invest in the aging infrastructure, fix the roads, bridges. when we do that we create american jobs. when we invest in our infrastructure we help american economy grow and create american jobs. we are on the right path. we need to continue this to improve the quality of life for every american and put food on the tables, help our working-class keep their jobs, and continue for them to take care of their families and live a dignified life. host: earlier this month, the house passed a defense bill. you voted against it. what were your ejections? guest: -- objections? guest: we need a strong defense but sometimes the other party wants to play culture wars.

this bill is no place to be doing cultural wars. we need to focus on a budget for the military, for the defense that is adequate for our national security and our national interests. co-mingling that with a tax on american freedom, co-mingling on attacks about cultural issues was wrong. that is why i voted against it. host: let's talk to some of our viewers. jessica is first in wichita, kansas, democrat. caller: hello. thank you for your service, congressman. i would like to say a few things . i don't know we are so divided in this day and age.

secondly, i would like to ask how are we going to find shelter and food for the homeless veterans? because my cousin is homeless and he served in iraq. he feels left behind, like no one cares. thank you. guest: jessica, i share your frustration. our politics are so polarized. people from detroit in the 13th district sent me to washington to get things done. my people sent me here to solve problems, make their lives better, and a lot of times political bickering, especially on cultural issues is nonproductive. we need to help with people. the issue you raised about homelessness, every american

must have a place to live, a roof over his or her head. our veterans, there is a high degree of homelessness, high degree of mental illness among the veterans. veterans are those who have done so much sacrifice to keep america safe, to bring peace to america. we owe it to our veterans to provide the services they need, including assistance with homeownership, assistance with not only critical health services but mental health services. a high rate of suicides among veterans is concerning. i am working with the secretary of veterans affairs. i met him just last week. had several conversations to ensure we take care of our veterans who made so much sacrifices for our national safety -- security and peace.

host: peggy is a republican from saint augustine, florida. caller: good morning. my question has to do with your statement about people not having access. if i heard you correctly, you were a poor immigrant who came to this country, got an education, started a business and has become a congressman. what do you mean that people born here -- they had as much access as you've had. i am curious. how do you explain that? you did not have access and you made out ok. why wouldn't the people here be able to do as good as you? guest: well, are there are -- there are many reasons. those are good questions you asked. i asked to make this a level playing field. let's take one example. systemic racism.

the institutional racism that has plagued our society. people are living for generations of poverty because of systemic racism has robbed people of opportunities, housing opportunities, health care opportunities, access to capital . black and brown community still have difficulty getting access to health care, access to capital to start their businesses. we clearly see environmental racism. we clearly see -- i represent detroit. 25% of the people of my district are at or below poverty levels. people are asking for a level playing field opportunities in terms of making -- opportunities

for homeownership. opportunities to start a business. opportunities to get a good education. often if you see the low-income areas have notoriously bad schooling. the schools don't have sufficient teaching staff, support staff. teachers are constantly living in fear of their own safety. if you look at rural america, at urban america, often it is not a level playing field. the suburban affluent neighborhoods have a lot more facilities, better schooling than the low income areas. we need to make it a level playing field. that means we need to be equitable. we need racial equity, social equity and economic equity to help people succeed. host: phyllis is in minneapolis,

independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, everybody. i wanted to say that it is an uneven playing field. a lot of people cannot get good paying jobs. we shipped it out to china. instead of shipping it to china we can just have what you did. people have a partnership of the stock. i think that would be really good. it is something everyone can work upon. i will take my call off the air. guest: i do share with you. we need to focus on manufacturing in america. we need to bring essential manufacturing. we cannot depend on china for our chips to run our mobiles. we cannot depend on other countries.

most of the critical essential manufacturing needs to be brought into america. we need to create skill sets. we need to give americans the skills they need for tomorrow's jobs. the economy is changing. technology is changing. artificial intelligence, mobility, this is the next century's need. we need to create skills so they can get high paying jobs here in america. we make our american manufacturing base stronger by investing in america. host: jay and allentown, pennsylvania, democrats. caller: i had a quick question. even talking about equity and equality. i have done a bunch of labor organizing over the years and i appreciated your entire talk

about giving workers part of the businesses. is this something you feel other businesses should look into? what part does a union play in that? guest: i did not hear your question very clearly. host: about the role of unions, congressman? guest: absolutely. unions made -- gave the workers the rights they need. i am a strong supporter of unions. i believe in strong unions. it clearly shows how the recent ups teamster agreement is an example of what unions can do to bring fairness for our working-class. when i ran my own business, every year i profit shared with my employees because i consider them part and partners in my business. when i sold my business i took a

whole bunch of profit and i distributed to all of the employees, not just the top cfo's and coo's, but people working at the bottom. everybody got bonuses. our businesses need to look at workers as partners. we are all on the same team. workers need good working conditions, safe working conditions, fair wages, good benefits. providing good benefits to your workers is good business because a happy worker means good customer service and a happy worker means your business will succeed and provide customers the services they need, the product that they need. i always believed in good to your employees is good for the business. host: you are a member of the small business committee. you introduced a bill called the

one-stop shop for small business licensing act. what would it do? guest: i am a small business owner, and entrepreneur. what i have noticed is the small business offers many grants and loans and programs, but it is very hard to get most small businesses, mom-and-pop shops, who don't have the time to go through hours and hours and this maze of regulations. but my bill does is a one-stop shop for licensing. what it does is it streamlines the process, crushes down the red tape, makes accessing federal small business benefits much easier so it will be a website that will provide licensing, local licensing, state and federal licensing much more easier. one place. i'm also working on capital.

i am asking financial institutions to commit 15% of the capital for small businesses to create loans for small businesses and create capital so that budding entrepreneurs can start their businesses. remember, small businesses create 70% of job growth. it is american small businesses that we need to support, for innovation for job creation, and developing our local communities. host: let's talk to kevin and new waco, michigan. independent. caller: thanks for taking my call. my first comment is, number one, there is no systemic racism in america. the only systemic racism in america is in media and the

government. put that aside. i live 15 minutes south of big rapids where you guys in your craziness are trying to put a battery factory in there. why? it was getting money out of it and if this is going to go through. the people of their eight happy about it. i wanted to let you know and every other michigan congresspeople to know the people in this area are not happy about that. we don't want the ccp in. if you've heard of tofu construction, maybe you should look it up on the internet and see what that is. host: all right, kevin. guest: thank you for your question. michigan put america in the world on wheels. automotive manufacturing is key to michigan's growth, to michigan's jobs.

as a fellow michigander i want to ensure our auto industry is strong. we are experiencing new technology. the electric vehicles mobility improvement are here. michigan cannot stay behind. we need to ensure the electric batteries are produced in michigan. we must encourage investment in michigan. we need to attract businesses to michigan to create jobs, to create tomorrow's jobs, create high-paying jobs or michiganders. i will always support and encourage others to come set of factories and manufacturing units in michigan so michigan can continue to grow and create good paying jobs, high-paying

jobs. host: gerald is a democrat in shepherdsville, kentucky. caller: good morning. i listened to the last caller, but he just said. everybody wants to build batteries in michigan. i think that is just wrong. we did have jobs here under president trump. the job was created here. more batteries were built here. more people were working. unemployment was down low under president trump. under joe biden, unemployment is high. all these immigrants are coming to the united states in taking our jobs. this gentleman from michigan does not know what he's talking about. people need jobs real bad. they are rallying in the states,

stealing everything. keep the jobs here in the united states. host: congressman? guest: i agree. i need to create jobs here in america. we need to focus on manufacturing. we need to have a win-win agreement between unions, workers, and the employer's. ultimately our success depends upon skilled workforce. that is why i and the small business committee have introduced workforce bills that will encourage apprenticeship and encourage small businesses partnering to create jobs, partnering to create a skilled workforce. currently the unemployment is low. many businesses i talked to ask

and complain they are not getting up skilled workforce. the most limiting factor businesses have is not having enough skilled workforce. we have to train american people and give them the skill set for tomorrow's jobs so we can continue to keep manufacturing in america. that we can continue to increase take-home pay for americans. and continue to make sure businesses grow and our economy grows for the benefit of all americans. host: tanisha from spring valley, new york. caller: thank you for your support of workers and the working-class. i really appreciate it. i don't think people understand in the past our government sent jobs overseas.

it is not because people are coming over here. people talk about illegal immigrants. it is the europeans that came over here. it is not the people coming over because of united states intervention. thank you so much for your support of the working people. thank you for what you did for your employees. guest: thank you. i appreciate that. i created hundreds of jobs coming here from poverty. coming from another country. america is a country of immigrants. we not only need to encourage the best of the best to come to the u.s. to help our economy grow, create jobs for americans, and we need to continue to train americans. we need to continue to invest in our small businesses and our economy. host: representative shri thanedar, democrat from michigan, thank you for joining us today. guest: thank you. host: coming up, more of your

phone calls after the break. we are returning to our opening question how should americ's racial history be taught? our lines arby region. eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. it is (202) 748-8001 if you are in the mountains or pacific time zones. our lineor students and educators is (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-span's online store. browse our latest collection of c-span products, apparel, books, home decor, and accessories. there is something for every c-span fan and every purchase help support our nonprofit operations. shop now or anytime at c-spanshop.org. >> the c-span bookshelf podcast

makes it easy for you to listen to all of c-span's podcast that featured nonfiction books in one place. you can discover new authors and ideas. each week we make it convenient for you to listen to multiple episodes with critically acclaimed authors discussing history, biographies, current events and culture. from our signature programs about books, afterwards, book notes plus, and q&a, listen to c-span's bookshelf podcast feed today. you can find them on the c-span now video mobile app, and on our website, c-span.org/podcasts. >> 40 your copy of the 118th congressional directory now available at c-spanshop at work. it is your access to the federal government with bio and contact information for every house and senate member, an important information on congressional

committees, the cabinet, federal agencies and state governors. scan the code on the right to orderour py today, or go to c-spansh.org. it is $29.99 plus shipping and handling. >> be up-to-date on the latest in publishing with book tv's podcast about books. with current nonfiction book releases, plus bestseller lists and industry news and trends through insider interviews. you could find about books on c-span now, our free mobile app, or wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are taking your calls until the end of the program on the topic we discussed this morning, what you think about how america's racial history be taught in schools. before we get to the calls, a

couple of notes for you to be aware of. the first is that live at 10:00 a.m. today this morning after this program we will have holland secured heecretary alejandro mayorkas discussing immigration and border security. this comes after some republicans of culture his impeachment. you can watch his testimony before the house judiciary committee this morning at 10:00 a.m. easte, about 25 minutes. that is over on c-span3. it will be on our app, c-span now, and also online at c-span.o. this afternoon we will have federal reserve chair jerome powell. he's holding a pressonrence following the federal open market committee meeting. yocan watch live coverage of that at 2:30 eastern on our mobile video out, c-span now. i want to start taking your calls to show you this real quick. the topic was on the front page of usa today this morning.

politics engulfed black history. in demand ap course runs into wall in florida. the article says ap african megan studies arrived last year at 16 schools across the country. this fall it will be tested in roughly 800 high schools, twice what was originally planned thanks to the surgeon demand. despite that growth and highly publicized revisions to the course it remains off-limits in florida. the state last week approved its own african megan history standard officials have lauded as the anti-woke approach to teaching about black experiences in the united states. advocates say the standards whitewash or gloss over key aspects of that story. nathaniel is first. irvington, new jersey. caller: good morning. love every topic. you guys do a great job.

i wanted to address american history i think the problem is there is so much of a pole right now and people wanting to erase actual history. for a long time we have known the american brand -- white americans have worked the hardest, achieved the most, the most creative, the most intellectual beings on this earth. we should tell the true history about how so many things that happened, how so much was gained from not just capitalism but from slavery. from pillaging from stealing land. on tenets of american history i think we could really get to a medium. i think there is so much from the white conservative part of the country that they don't want

to address those kinds of things. it would defeat the idea that americans work the hardest, americans are the smartest. i think that is why there is a big -- host: you are calling on the line for educators. what do you teach? caller: i work at a program in new jersey to help young students get jobs, get employment without having a college degree. on the manager for the program. we deal with a lot of young students that don't necessarily know our history. a lot of times they get the history taught in school and that is not the true american history. if you look at the true american history you realize america did not get to this level of success just because of their own merits. it was the pillage, through rape, stealing. -- be told true history. caller: good morning.

i wanted to call and say there's a lot of speculation going on about this education program. i think it would be beneficial if you have the people who actually wrote the program in florida on your show, then you could question them about what they wrote. host: thanks for that suggestion. emmett in glenview, illinois. caller: hi. dr. emmett king calling, retired social studies and history teacher. why is irish and catholic history ignored? oliver cromwell sent the first 25,000 irish catholics to colonial america. 1820, there were 400,000 irish catholic slaves building sewers, streets, etc. host: you are saying they were

enslaved in this country? caller: absolutely. i cannot talk about that in class. host: what did that look like, that slavery? caller: they were of ducted -- of ducted from ireland -- abducted from ireland and fed up i plan to colonial america from 1625 to about 1820. catholics were expelled from every colony in colonial america. catholics in. in massachusetts cannot attend harvard. -- in colonial massachusetts cannot attend harvard. they also went to cuba, the dominican republic. there was this tremendous pipeline for about 300 years. i have the textbooks to prove it. irish catholic history is the

missing chapter in american history. i don't know why that is. also, native americans practiced slavery. huge number of tribes, included harriet ross of the cherokee nation believed in slavery. i teach the kids about the incas, the mya's, the aztecs. also african slavery going back 3000 to 4000 years. slavs in eastern europe are part of the slave trade. host: i want to show you this. this is on usa today, a fact check that says the irish were indentured servants, not slaves. it says the claims that irish-americans were enslaved in the americas or treated worse than enslaved black people. this protest against police brutality the global pandemic, many americans reckon with the country's history.

it's caused a fake historical mean to surface. the first slave ship to the mac and colonies in 1619 were 100 white children from ireland. truth matters. the average slave trade began when james ii sold 300,000 irish prisoners as slaves to the new world, according to facebook posts. ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for english merchants. the majority of the early slaves to the new world were actually white. it says, "there are many stories , theories, denials and coverups about his claims. the page cited british involvement in the slave trade as a next nation for the claim. the irish indentured servants claim irish people were enslaved in the british american colonies stems from a misrepresentation of the idea of indentured servitude. indentured servants were people

required to complete unplayed labor for a contracted period. while the majority of irish people who became indentured servants did so willingly, why they felt they had to do this is of course another question. a not insignificant number were deported and sold into indentured servitude. it says many indentured servants in the british colonies where working-class white immigrants from the british isles. bob is next in texas. good morning. caller: i would like to follow-up a little bit on what the doctor just said. my first statement is i believe american history should be taught the way it occurred. i grew up in the 1960's and 1970's when racism was truly an issue in our country. i was taught in primary school about the irish slaves and the english slaves. what i was taught is not what

you just indicated through the press and usa today. i don't have a dog in this fight. i'm retired and sitting at home. i remember true racism and racial riots from the 60's and 70's. i believe there is some effort by people who participated in that to re-create that racial unrest in our country today. there are some new people with axes to grind for political points to be gained. it is just frustrating. i have been a public servant my entire adult life. i served in local, county, or state government my entire life. i have been told my entire life that i'm a racist because of my skin color. i am tired of it. racism is taught it is not endemic. it is not systemic. everybody i have worked with in my career, with the exception of

one or 2 -- we are talking about thousands of public servant. everybody tried their darndest to serve their community and serve it the best way possible with ignorance -- sorry, wrong word. blind eye to the color we are serving. we try to treat everyone equally. there has been such a warping of history with people with political agendas. it is very frustrating. host: brenda in fairfield, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i believe racial history should be taught truthfully in america. i'm an african-american woman who grew up in the 1960's and dealt with racial divide. it should be taught truthfully. what is happening in florida is just -- it makes us another.

it makes african-americans other all over again. white people who helped african-americans, the abolitionists and everything, it disregards everything to not be taught as it occurred. and, the slavery in america is so different, so much more grotesque than what happened all over the world. we understand there is slavery everywhere. every culture. however, the slavery that occurred here in america was an abomination. he really is how america was built. history, racial history must be taught as it occurred. it has to be taught truthfully. thank you. host: mohammed iin washington

-- mohammed in washington, d.c. caller: first time caller. host: welcome. caller: i think we should illuminate white an white -- black and white. i'm not black. i'm just an american. these color codes. i think the history of slavery should be taught truthfully, like all ethnicities and races went through some kind of slavery. the irish, the slavic scum of indians, the chinese -- slavics, the indians, chinese. all ethnicities went through some form of slavery. it was all generated by the labor force. the plantations. however, i think categorizing people by colors, black or

white, there is no black people or white people. these are the policies created to divide us, i believe. i think moving forward, our history was stolen from us. a lot of us don't even know our ethnicity, our nationalities, where we came from. we were told we were from africa. i never met -- i can trace my family 200 years back. i can't find no africans. everybody is an american. i just think grace codes a -- race codes are to divide us. host: harry and oregon -- teri in oregon. caller: i am thrilled to talk to you this time as my first time

with you as opposed. i would like to make two -- two comment. first of all, i'm 74 years old and my favorite classes in high school were social studies and civics. and the teachers i had were so passionate. that is when schools were really funded well. social studies is -- i will read the short definition. a part of a school or college curriculum concerned with the study of social relationships and the functioning of society. usually made up of courses in history, government, so the important thing was because of that teaching, because my family was racist. let teaching i got in social studies helped me today walk through when i see somebody being racially abused.

i -- it is a scary moment but if you walk through it because i have that history, got that knowledge of -- anyway, does that make sense? that is what i think education is so important. because i only had what i grew up around in. it wasn't until my education i started seeing the injustice and being the person i am. when i saw it, i have the courage to do something about it. but you don't get the courage until after you do it. the second thing i would like to say, i'm so happy to see you and tia spending more time at the host desk. i would like to make one suggestion. please, like when the fitton guy was on, he started cutting it

on the caller because he got mad. if you could just please gently in your excellent -- your excellent anyway. remind to let the caller finish. yesterday, tia had a racist caller. he wasn't angry. you could tell he just did not know any better but he was patronizing to her in a, teammate. -- a comment he made. i said on twitter you own that seat, girl. that is your time to be host. host: i appreciate the feedback. gwendolyn is a teacher in richmond, virginia. caller: good morning. that teachers that just called, he's funny. he's hilarious. it says all slaves brought into the country, and this is a virginia slave code from 1705.

all servants who were not christian in their home country with a few exceptions will be treated as slaves. even if they converted to christianity later they will still be bought and sold as slaves. no we mention irish people. they were indentured servants. our people were treated as -- colored people today, no, they are not. african people were enslaved. back to the person that said i'm not black, i'm american. your african. you are african. get over it. ok? host: what do you teach? caller: i teach spanish. host: ok. volker, minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. racial history in america.

there was a program years ago in search of eve, going genetically back to the source of it 100,000 years ago when the genetic trace, the dna trace kind of brings us -- i'm not saying it is true but it's an interesting theory. i would try to teach the racial history of america. maybe as a focus point of human evolution. i know it doesn't make sense what i'm saying. host: you are making sense. caller: that is all i have to say. host: pam in roy city, texas. -- royce city, texas. caller: good morning. i am a teacher, longtime public

school teacher and i have taught social studies in the past. i would just like to challenge everyone who is commenting on the ap course in florida to actually read the course, actually hear from the writers. several scholars i that are african americans. if you read it for yourself instead of listening to the politicians that want to divide us you may have a different viewpoint on that course. thank you so much. host: maria in altamonte springs, florida. caller: ultimate springs, yes. thank you for taking my call. history should be taught absolutely factually. teach the facts and not the educator's opinions of the facts. i grew up in the 1960's in virginia. i knew the irish were actually indentured servants versus

chattel slavery. all slavery is an abomination. all countries, all civilizations had it at some point. initially, if you look at history in the colonies with no slave laws in place initially, the blacks were treated as indentured servants in differe -- and given the same opportunities for freedom. it changed starting in massachusetts. the first slave owner in the u.s. was an angolan free person. i believe all aspects of slavery should be taught. the fact that the africans sold their people. all cultures had slavery it should be something taught. i'm also in florida now and i do believe if you read what is going on in the ap history courses there are some things where the opinion of the person who started the class is more

prevalent than the african -- the actual facts. thank you. host: tomas is a student in orlando, ford. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm a secondary education major taking a social studies track. i want to teach high school history here in florida. i just wanted to say that a lot of people are harboring about history being factual a lot of history of storytelling. the importance of the storytelling is to give the different groups of people there point of use and their shared experiences. just growing up personally as a puerto rican descendant, i have been in florida all my life since florida is kind of the hot seat right now. i was never really taught about puerto rican history and how christopher columbus dealt with

the people and the indigenous population. i also was not taught how the united states dealt with puerto rico and his development into a commonwealth. i think now as an adult that helped me very much not only establish my political views, but my cultural views in general. i think that is quintessential to being successful in general, understanding who you are and who you want to be and what has happened in your country. that motivated me as somebody who wants to teach to really give as an unbiased view as i can. my main objective is to allow people the space to understand it's ok to want to learn about their story and ok to tell different stories. it's ok to know some stories are going to affect you in positive ways and sometimes they will make you upset. a lot of history is learning how to deal with those feelings.

i think if we don't tell the stories we will not be able to really handle this division because we will not be able to really digest a lot of the struggles we are going through. a lot of people are confusing to different types of slavery we've had in different places. i think that's all the more reason we need to definitely tell the stories and not really try to force who is getting the attention and who is not. everybody deserves a chance to say what they have been through and all the points of view are valid. host: tony is also from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i want to say i have a message for the left. you are not fooling anybody. this whole race talk we have, yeah, it exists right history. the last couple of decades it

has affected everything because of the penetration of the ideology within our educational institutions, our media, hollywood. now a specific political party has adapted as his main platform host: what ideology? caller: the left-wing ideology. leftist ideology. it is based on antiwhite, anti-america. there are americans who feel like that. it's demonizing white people. yes, we had slavery but nobody talks about the progress made. the left intentionally does not talk about that. their language when they talk about these issues today, this is based on antiwhite and anti-american. we can secure our borders. they don't want to secure our borders. they specific political party has adapted this. that lady who called the fumes

ago it was demonizing that cinnamon who said i don't care about my color, she was like you are this, you are that. they are race obsessed. it's not about social justice. it's about demonizing white people. to their mind why people are empowered so there needs to be a balance. its complete absurdity. anybody can be who they want to be but they are being brainwashed to think like that. that is what you are seeing in the media and hollywood and educational institutions. educators are calling in and saying it. that is the core thing they do. it is antiwhite. host: let's talk to shirley in virginia. caller: good morning, mimi and the rest of the world is listening. my thing is when they start talking about woke and how should