or wherever you get your podcasts, and on c-span.org/podcasts. announcer: coming up on "washington journal", your calls and comment. then american psychological association ceo dr. arthur evans talks about access to mental health care and president biden's new proposal to push insurers to cover the services. also, gregg brazinsky, deputy director of george washington university's institute for korean studies, discusses the 70th anniversary of the korean war. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is saturday, july 29. several economic numbers came

out recently such as gdp, consumer spending, and inflation that indicates strength and resiliency, surprising economists. many had predicted recession or a clear slowdown. but has the positive news made you optimistic about the economy? that is the question we are asking this first hour. if you are feeling optimistic, call (202)-748-8000. if you think the economy will get worse, it is (202)-748-8001. if you are not sure, (202)-748-8002. you can also send us a text at (202)-748-8003. be sure to send your first name and city/state. we are on social media, facebook.com/c-span, and on instagram and twitter @c-spanwj. new data is latest evidence america's inflation problem is

receding. a deluge shows the inflation problem is continuing to ease. the go to measure of inflation cooled meaningfully last month. wage growth, which was fearing to stoke for the price gains, continued to decelerate. inflation remains too high but the rapid price gains that plagued consumers, economic policymakers, and biden administration officials looks to be in the past. the personal consumption index rose 3% in june compared to the same month a year ago. that is a sharp drop from 3.8% in may. the bottom line continues a stunning run of releases that show inflation pressers ebbing.

let's see what president biden said yesterday. he was in maine at a textile factory. pres. biden: i came to office determined to move from a trickle-down economics that everyone from the financial times and wall street journal call bidenomics. it is working. building from the bottom up, middle out. all of that trickle-down stuff, when the wealthy do well, we all do well, well, my dad worked like the devil but not a lot trickled down to our kitchen table. according to morgan stanley and goldman sachs, it is leading to a boom and manufacturing. we have created over 13 million new job, more than before the pandemic. nearly 28,700 here in maine.

[applause] 800,000 new manufacturing jobs nationwide. we have attracted nearly half $1 trillion in outside private investment because they know it is available now. more jobs in two years then created by any president in a four-year term. [applause] unemployment in america has been below 4% for the longest stretch in over 50 years. and it is not just we recovered all the jobs we lost during the pandemic. we now have more jobs than we did before the pandemic. host: we are asking you, are you feeling optimistic about the economy? look at this article in the washington times with the headline, america's robust

economy is not making bidenomics easier to sell. president biden is trying to convince voters they are better off but his message is proving to be a tough sell despite upbeat economic indicators. in a series of speeches the president has taken credit for the good news. unemployment is near a record low, inflation has slowed from its peak in june 2022, the economic growth rate has exceeded expectations, and wages are up 4.7% over the past year. yet the public verdict on the economy and bidenomics is a disappointing return on mr. biden's investment. unhappy voters point to high grocery prices, soaring interest rates, and rising debt and they are demanding relief. they say the hefty price increases for everyday goods and services are wiping away wage

increases. take a look at republican congresswoman lisa mcclain saying that bidenomics is not working for everyone. >> i am talking about the reality of bidenomics. we have heard the president say time and time again his economic policies have worked. he believes the american economy is better today than it was before he took office. we know this administration has a habit of changing terms, redefining issues, and not looking at the facts. let's look at the facts. gas is up 34% joe biden took office. energy prices are up 28.5%. and the average american family

is paying almost $1200 per month on everyday needs. tell me, does that sound like an economy that is strong? the clear answer is no. the economy is not strong. it is actually a lot weaker than it was before joe biden took office. and the sad reality is that hard-working taxpayers are footing the bill for biden's failures. i think it is time we tell the truth. bidenomics has been a complete and utter failure. host: wondering what you think about that and what you think about the future. are you optimistic? are you pessimistic? are you not sure? we will go to the phone lines. ben is in pennsylvania and you say no. guest: good morning.

unfortunately, i am very pessimistic about the economy and where it is going after these last several years. it is difficult to be positive. i had not heard the term bidenomics until about a week ago. i believe it was jill biden who had used the phrase. first time i heard it. but this whole message seems to be all strategy on the part of the biden reelection campaign. there is little substance and it is generally off the mark when the president should be focusing on more concise things versus throwing out phrases -- bidenomics is rather catchy. host: concise like what? guest: sorry? host: he should focus on more concise things. like what? guest: he needs to get everything under control when it comes to the economy. i know that is not concise. [laughs]

they say the inflation numbers are down but when i go to the grocery store things are insanely expensive. gas costs me $50 to fill up my car when it used to cost me $28. i am not the economist. i do not work for the biden administration. i cannot give them good advice but the reason they were elected was to do that job. host: david next in north carolina. david, you are not sure. why are you not sure? guest: i am not sure because it is my view that over the past years the economy has meant less and less to the citizenry of this country. less than 50% of our people, as i understand it, do not have any

savings to speak of. yesterday i went and bought a car battery and it cost me over $200. of regular car battery -- a regular car battery. 15 years ago when i retired it was only $50. what i am saying is that the measurement of the economy are several things that do not have any bearing on what an american has in his pocket. that really is about it. if an economic indicator goes up or down, our income certainly

does not go up. we pay the price for the business community and wall street by paying inflationary pricing. host: let's move on to tyrone who says yes in new york. guest: i am optimistic. mainly because the government is going to make sure the big-money interest is taking care of. they are going to let this economy crash. when the bank debacle took place, what happened? they bailed out the bank. big interest money is going to be taking care of. that means the rest of the economy is going to be taking care of. the inflation rate is down. unemployment is down. the economics in this country

are going pretty well. unfortunately, you got people in this country that think government should be everything to everybody. joe biden is not god. he is not going to fix everything for you. should i be mad at joe biden about that? there are things we need to take care of as so-called adults to be able to spend our money correctly instead of buying stuff we cannot afford to impress people we do not know. we need to know how to work our finances instead of buying unaffordable things. you are buying a $500,000 house and you make $28,000 a year. that is not affordable. if you do not have a money problem and you have a spending problem, then you have a problem. it does not matter how much money you make.

if you spend more than you make, you are not going to be happy. do not be mad at joe biden or donald trump or whoever. do not blame other people for your irresponsibility. take care of your own financial responsibilities so you do not put yourself in the position where you are so strapped financially that you cannot afford anything. host: let's take a look at social media. we got this from michael on facebook. the economy is hanging in. but if republicans snake their way back in 2024, it will be catastrophic. economic shock. is how fascists consolidate power. not kidding. this is a text from larry in new jersey. joe biden's governing along with partisan and bipartisan legislation is working with the government is supposed to work. i'm confident the u.s. economy is recovering well. this is from kitty on facebook, absolutely, we have recovered

from our downturns. this is no different and the recovery has been fairly smooth. kenneth is next in oregon. guest: good morning to you. i am not hopeful for the future as long as we got biden for president. we are paying out here in northwest oregon $5 a gallon for gas. i have seen no dip in prices for groceries the last year. things just don't look right. i am living payday to payday and i have a military pension and social security. i made around $5,000 a month and i am living payday to payday with all of this inflation going on. that is what i see.

host: you mentioned gas prices. this is foxbusiness.com that says, gas prices may spike $.10 to $.25 as much as this week. kentucky, florida already seeing higher gas prices and consumers may need to prepare to spend more for a gallon of gas because of the rising cost of oil and refinery outages as temperatures across the nation soar to the highest of the summer. we are even seeing gas prices rising because of the extreme heat as well as other factors. jess in woodbridge, virginia. what do you think? guest: i am a mid-level federal employee. we have something equivalent to the 401(k) and i invested prior

to the economic problems fairly aggressively. i actually did quite well. then when the economy started turning bad -- because i am reaching retirement age -- i shifted it into cash. just to keep it stable. when the economy started getting better i put it back into the aggressive strategy. i lost $3000 in three days and i said, i'm going to pull back. now things are starting to look up again and from historical standards and from my observations, there is very little i president can do to effect the economy. but i got my toes back in the water. i will try again because there is no end to it. you have to aggressively invest, even in retirement, to keep your

head above water. host: i have got a question for you and you are a federal employee. kind of related to this which is if the government shuts down, you will not get a paycheck. are you prepared for that? have you made arrangements in case that happens? guest: well, i do not have so much of an emergency fund but i have credit cards and they have zero balances. you can get by for a little while off of that. host: mike is in long island, new york. guest: good morning. i would like to complement the guy before me that said the president does not have a lot to do with the economy. what exactly is the economy? he does not own oil companies or gas companies. they are gouging because they know they can. they said they can do it. oil is $70 a barrel the last six months. it should be $2.70 at the pump

but in new york, it never went under $3. and they are going to raise it as the election comes cousin they know that ev -- because they know that ev's are eating into their profits. the democrats might raise taxes 3%. big deal. there is a lot of gouging happening. oil companies could have increased -- they have had a year to operate at full capacity. there are no excuses and the ceo's are saying we have seen we can raise our prices without any interruption. if people cut back, prices will come down. the term bidenomics was coined by wall street journal, not joe biden. i don't know where these people,

with the stuff - -come up with this stuff. host: you mentioned oil profits. here is cnn business. this is an article from two days ago that says shell total energy's profits cut in half by lower energy prices. they reported a steep drop in second-quarter profits as oil and gas prices fell from record highs reaching russia's full-scale invasion. the sharp decline in earnings from two of the biggest oil companies signals the end of record-setting results for energy companies. they had by revenue reported adjusted earnings of $5.1 billion from april to june. less than half of the $11.5 billion it reported a year ago. duke in maine. guest: good morning, c-span.

i do not see how they can say the inflation is going down. i was listening on one of the other news channels this morning before i switched to you guys. they said they come up with their figures excluding food and oil. food and fuel are the most expensive things right now. i do not see how you can leave those things out and come up with that kind of scenario. good lord. that is your most expensive thing. i do not believe these solar panels and wind stuff are the thing. i do not think it is going to work in the long run. we need to open up our oil drilling again and get this country back on its feet, like it used to be. as for the price gouging on the oil and stuff, yes, i feel that

there is. they will play with those fuel figures. they will get it up to $4.50 and people are screaming. and then they work it back a little bit and then a little bit more until people stop screaming, but it is still between $3 and $3.50 a gallon. they play with the figures to see where people are going to feel comfortable. you go to the grocery stores -- host: i want to ask you about gas prices. where should the price of gas be? you know in europe and other parts of the world it is much more expensive to fill up for a gallon of gas. where would it be a reasonable point? guest: i would say if we could get it down to, you know,

between $2.50, $2.75 that would be a big help. they are gouging because they know we need the fuel for our cars and heating our homes. in maine, a lot of people depend on wood. my fear is pretty soon the government is going to come out with some regulation that says no you cannot burn wood. they would like to see us stop using fuel. they would like to see us stop using lp, gas. what are you going to do? this is ridiculous. you go to the grocery stores and you get your sales flyers each week. what they have for the sale price right now -- three months ago it was the regular price. now the regular price is higher in the sales price was the regular price three months ago.

it makes no sense. i do not see how people are going to make it. host: we go next to maryland. guest: good morning, mimi. good morning, america. i'm optimistic about the economy. here in maryland where i live a dozen eggs are $1.10. if you get the 18-count, they are $1.58. i do not know where these people are shopping. they must be going to trader joes or these expensive places. i go over to the walmart, i go to aldi's, and they are not sale prices. these are the everyday prices. our gas in maryland, the tax increased by $0.04 per gallon.

i paid $3.35 for a gallon the other day. i live in the great blue state of maryland. these republican states are keeping things high because they want their people to moan about the democrats being in charge. so far as inflation is concerned, we had a problem due to the pandemic and due to trump's trade war with china. all of our stuff comes from china. what does he do? he gets into this big fiasco with china. china said, to heck with you. what happened? prices went up. trump told oil companies if you want to make more money, just pull back on your supply. what did they do? the prices went up. yes, the gas and oil companies are gouging us.

for these people that complain about biden, especially these senior citizens, they got that 8.7% increase in their social security check. i appreciate mine. if they do not appreciate theirs , tell them to send it back. i get a check every month from social security. host: let's talk about rising food prices. here is nbc news that says, inflation is easing. what does that mean for your grocery bill? groceries, especially eggs, were one of the key reasons consumer prices surged the last year. here is how some of the most common food items stack up as inflation cools down. shoppers are finally getting relief at the grocery store. rising food prices have been among the biggest drivers of inflation since 2020 with a combination of labor shortages,

supply chain snags, and bird flu outbreak, sending grocery bills rapidly higher. it says that the nbc news analysis says people are paying nearly 40% more for a basket of common grocery items, including eggs, chicken, milk, and coffee than they did before the world health organization declared a pandemic. here is the chart of grocery prices. this goes all the way back to the beginning of the pandemic. you can see the spike and you can see it coming back down. this is for a basket of grocery items that include a pound of chicken, a pound of beef, a pound of bread, a dozen eggs, a gallon of milk, a dozen bananas, a pound of coffee. that is how they are doing the analysis. a big part of the grocery price jump came from eggs which are in

short supply for much of the past year due to the worst outbreak of avian influenza on record. let's talk to sherry next in hollywood, florida. good morning. guest: yes, good morning. i'm retired. i have been living here since 2005. i'm retired from delta and the government. i am frustrated because i am going to lose my home because the realtors have taken advantage of the fact that people from the north are coming down and they are raising prices. also, one of the things i have not heard from the lovely people before me have mentioned these illegals coming over our border. we are paying the bill for every one of them.

we are paying the major bills for their medical, housing, food. we have terrible crime rates in the north. people are going into the stores and stealing. if you are a poor person living up there and you are seeing illegals living -- especially into new york and getting everything for free -- you are getting nothing. unfortunately, i do not agree but i can see why that could make people want to go into these stores and steal. i do not approve of that but if you are starving to death and everybody is getting things for free, how does that make you feel? president biden wants to go after governor abbott in texas for putting up those red buoys in the river and i understand why he does it.

i lived in texas. biden shuts down the oil and gas and what does he expect us to do? our oil reserves are way down. i do not think they are gouging. they just cannot drill because the president said you cannot drill anymore. he shuts down the keystone pipeline. all of these people are coming over the border from the drug cartel. this is america, the most wonderful country in the world. i loved it when i was in the military. i feel sorry for our military and people in listing are down. but the military was a family to me. how are they going to protect us if we go to war if we have no gas to put the airplanes in the

air? host: herbert is in michigan. good morning. guest: good morning. i keep hearing your callers call in and talk about inflation but i do not think there is one thing people are not talking about. one of the last ladies was talking about fuel. she needs to do research and find out where the independent oil companies are. they went out of business during the pandemic while we were sending huge checks to exxon and mobil. there is one thing people are not realizing. the largest tax increase on american consumers in history was donald trump's tariffs. they are still there. you pay that everyday. you go to the grocery store, you pay that tariff. you go to home depot, anywhere you go, you pay that tariff. they are not going away. i am in business management.

i know what happened to the price of steel. people say, well, why don't biden get rid of them? he got rid of the tariffs on canadian and european steel. all that did was give the steel companies more profit. companies do not lower prices. the only reason inflation is coming down right now is because american people are getting used to paying the higher prices. this was a huge mistake. tariffs cost us terribly. it is the number one reason we have this high inflation. host: let's take a look at the senate minority whip. he was speaking wednesday taking aim at bidenomics in the inflation reduction act. >> if you look at the ultimate impact of the ira and what is happening with the economy in the country today, prices

continue to rise above the fed's percent inflation -- 3% 2% inflation rate. also, you got new studies out that suggest provisions in the ira -- the deal with the green new deal are going to be hundreds of millions of dollars more than what was projected. this continues to be a reason why the american people are experiencing the economic impacts of high inflation and higher interest rates. so much so that if you look at the impact on the average american, is resulting in a 6% loss in the value of their assets, or $34,000 per person,

in this country. that is the cumulative effect that higher inflation coupled with higher interest rates as a result of all of the passage of this massive government spending bill. we found out this week that billions of dollars, literally billions of dollars of the ira, went to foreign companies. the american people have good reason to ask about bidenomics and what is the real impact. host: we are taking your calls this morning until 8:00 a.m. eastern about the question, are you feeling optimistic about the economy? the choices are yes, no, and not sure. james says yes in florida. guest: i do. unfortunately, we have inflation. inflation was caused by the 20020 pandemic -- 2020 pandemic.

every country in the world's manufacturing shut down and depleted what they had in stock. when 2020 came around inflation started going up. we are going to have inflation in the future because of that. the computer chip, for example. thailand most the most computer chips in the world. host: taiwan. guest: and they were shut down for a year. now they are playing catch-up. that is why the cars are more expensive. the chips are so much involved

with the computer today it is incredible. when reagan was president it was just as high as it is now. it takes time to control it with the interest rate going up. it will eventually come back down. the future is going to get brighter, it just takes time to repair what happened. the tax break that the rich got in 2018, the middle-class got more tax increases and the rich got a trillion dollar tax break. billionaires. that puts out $4.4 million for every 1% top earnings.

middle-class did not get that much. i ended up paying more in taxes. i am optimistic things are going to work out. about the border, if we do not have these people working in the groves or the farms to pick our crops, who is going to do it? i'm 65-years-old. am i pick the crop? not likely. host: matt next in flint, michigan. guest: good morning. i wanted to say that bidenomics is no different than reaganomic s. the top 1% still on everything. not mentioned is the lack of jobs and the competition keeps the wages low. but there is also a lot of online work where they were

getting paid from someone in another country and not staying here. i think the inflation over food is -- i might have gotten $300 or so and people are spending money because they are desperate , but if you do the math, a billionaire got hundreds of millions back in some cases. i am not optimistic. i do not think it is purely politics. i think it is automation and cheap labor. host: all right. monmouth university did a poll about this. this is the quote from t director who said, the president has been touting bidenomics but the needle of public opinion has americans are just not giving

him a lot of credit when it comes to the econo let's look at the actual numbers. this came out a few weeks ago this month and says, the question is president biden's handling of these areas. on jobs and unemployment 47% approved, 48% disapprove. on inflation 34% approved, 62% disapprove. transportation and energy issues 43% approved, 51% disapprove. marty is in newport news, virginia. good morning. guest: hello. there was a lot of things said by the callers that was good. as far as the eggs go, shop for myself. i have never gone into the store

when there were no eggs on the shelf. i also read an article -- and i do not know the company's exact name -- but they own 20% of the northeast corner of the united states, their eggs. their profits went up 720%. that thing you read off about the oil prices, that can be explained in this simple thing. if a company is making $1000 a year and then all of a sudden they are making $2000 a year, it is kind of normal. there is legislation called the

windfall tax. that has to be jerome "mr. magoo" powell. he was born with the right wing billionaires and wants to crash the economy so they can get more tax cuts. host: all right. let's take a look at social media. annie on twitter says, yes, what exactly should the economy look like after we shut down almost two years? there are greedy companies out there but for the most part there has been steady growth in jobs and wages, which will increase other prices. but that is how the economy works. and fm says, i'm cautiously optimistic. but the fed needs to recognize how important wage gains are for workers. middle down who have been left

behind in's 1980 -- since 1980. aubrey on facebook says i'm optimistic, beginning with the biden american rescue plan, ending the trump coronavirus epidemic and recession. bidenomics working in conjunction with the federal reserve has gotten trumpflation under control without a recession and loss of jobs. a text from kent, i am a healthy skeptic. the economic indicators seem to point toward improvement but how long the cycle journeys that way is another question. the world is turning so precariously today. who knows what will block the road toward improvement tomorrow. at 60 when i was laid off from my job in april but i hope employment will come soon. host: good morning.

caller: it is kind of funny that we do not understand inflation as part of the system. people are making a big point. it is corporate greed. the ceo's and companies make tons of profits. meanwhile, we are not getting anywhere in our income. what happens a lot of the times is corporations will hit peak where they are making profits. they want to make more profit because they want to be greedy. they raise the plateau and do not let it stay. the one thing we can do to stop those things is have more worker owned businesses. i have a store in my area and you go and the workers own part of the stock and it's great. but a lot of places do not have that so we have to deal with

inflation. it should not be but it is because it is corporate greed. that has nothing to do with rates or whatever else. these corporations get greedy and they raise the prices. we need to make sure to keep the billionaires in check on their end and make sure they pay their fair share in wages and taxes. it would be lovely. but what do i know? you've have got to understand that the ceo's are doing their bit. host: got it. let's take a look at fed chair jerome powell. he was asked on wednesday at a press conference about risking more unemployment with the latest rate hike. chair powell: the unemployment rate is the same as when we lifted off march of 2022. that is a real blessing and we

have been able to achieve some disinflation. we do not seek -- it is not that we are aiming to raise unemployment but the historical record, we have to be honest. it suggests when central banks go in and slowly economy to bring down inflation the result tends to be softening in labor market conditions. that is still the likely outcome. we hope that is as little as possible. that is the likely outcome. the worst outcome for everyone would be not to deal with inflation now, not get it done. whatever the short-term social costs of getting inflation under control the longer-term of failing to do so are greater. the historical record is very clear on that. you go through where inflation expectations are not anchored and interferes with people's lives economic activity. that is the thing we really need to avoid and will avoid.

host: that was fed chair jerome powell. we are taking your calls. annie is next in mill valley, california -- andy is next in mill valley, california. guest: on oil, too many stupid people get on aaron talk about supply and demand. biden has open the oil reserves. that is nonsense. that presumes a free-market capitalism system and our oil business has never been on a free-market capitalism system. there is no supply and demand function with regard to a militaristic monopoly. they set the prices, whatever they want. it does not matter how many refineries are in the united states or out of the united states. they set the prices and it has nothing to do with supply and demand. back on inflation, it is easier to turn the titanic around then

it is the u.s. economy. trump put it on. inflation -- put it on full speed inflation. the smart caller from michigan made the position that he jacked up the tariffs. he brags about jacking up the tariffs which means he created all this inflation. the caller from michigan was right. biden, another thing he needs to do is lower the tariffs and that will help lower inflation. but trump will probably get inflation going the double we got it now. he does not even understand it. i do not think he is trying to rule the economy but he brags every speech he is going to increase the tariffs and he is tough and those leaders don't like it. he is the real problem.

he does not understand it. he is trying to destroy the economy. host: barbara is next in texas. good morning. caller: good morning. in my lifetime prices have always been rising pretty steadily and i think in a little over two years biden has done a lot to help the economy. the republicans brag about tax cuts but they gave a permanent tax cut to the wealthy and a small, temporary tax cut for the ordinary people. i think the leading driver of high prices is corporate price gouging and corporate funding of politicians. citizens united decision that the corporations are like people, that's not true. most of them do not even pay any taxes. if they did pay their full share of taxes, our economy would be

wonderful. thank you. host: james is next in the:, florida -- pensacola, florida. pres. biden: if the u.s. government is not prepared enough when the oil has no reserve currency, the u.s. dollar will lose much of its value. there is a great possibility of higher inflation. thank you. host: joel in spring, texas. guest: caller: i associate myself with the guy from pensacola. he has that figured out. what they do not know about economics from the books they have not read, to think there is corporate greed and inflation is

caused by that because they are filling their pockets up, belies the realization that this is such a competitive market that it is difficult to make a dime in today's world. trump's reduction of the income tax on the very rich added to the deficit is a misnomer. more money came into the treasury than ever. the debt was ran up, yes, we have the pandemic. he did not spend. but he does not authorize the budget. congress does. i love c-span. i have been watching since the first day in 1979. host: every day since 1979?

caller: every day. i will not go anywhere in the world that i cannot tune into "washington journal". host: let's go to jim the tucker, georgia -- in tucker, georgia. caller: why is the truth corny? the truth is corny because it is always the same. for me, i am optimistic because my truth is i have a friend in jesus. i am not too worried about the condition of the world. as far as the economy goes i think the global warming is a real concern. i do not know if you have heard but the georgia peach crop in central georgia basically failed

this year because it was really hard freeze that killed all the blossoms. there was no peach harvest in georgia. and i think there was another in west texas that failed. i am looking at these temperature rises in the other parts of the world and thinking, you know, some of these crops are not going to make it. i heard yesterday on "washington journal" people called in and said crops are great up here in north-central states. i think that is a good thing, but the economy is going to do what it is going to do. all of these people that say, oh, it is biden's fault. he does not have much to do with it. it is the business leaders controlling the more than biden. biden's policies are good, very good in fact. bidenomics is great.

but as far as being optimistic, my optimism is driven by my belief in god and jesus. that is my take. host: let's go to new york, new york next to winnifred. caller: good morning. i'm sorry but i believe the economy is working. i can go into one supermarket and the price of a box of cereal is $7 and then go a few blocks away and the price is less. and it is a larger box. i think it has to do with the corporations, the supermarkets. it is where you buy your produce and groceries. some places will have eggs, three dozen for $10, an 70 else

would have it for another price. you have to pick and choose where you shop. i do not believe it is joe biden. i believe it is the corporations. host: you might have heard this headline that powell says fed staff is no longer forecasting recession. the chair sites recent resilience of the economy for upgrade. let's look at what he said about that topic. [video clip] chair powell: it has been my view consistently that we have a shot in the base case is we will achieve inflation moving down to our target without the significant downturn that results in high levels of job losses we have seen in past instances. that has been my view and that is still my view.

i think that is consistent with what i see today. but it is a long way from assured and we have a lot left to go to see that happen. the staff now has a noticeable slowdown in growth starting later this year in the forecast. but given the resilience of the economy they are no longer forecasting a recession. i want to note that our staff produces its own forecast which is independent of the forecast we produce. having an independent staff forecast as well as the individual participant forecast is a good strength of our process. there is a lot of constructive diversity of opinion that helps us make -- helps inform our delivery and make our decisions. >> is the reason for optimism inflation has come down and he still have a strong labor market?

does that add to the optimism? chair powell: i would not use the term optimism about this yet. i would say there is a pathway. yes, that is a good way to think about it. we have seen the beginnings of disinflation without any real cuts in the labor market. that is a really good thing. host: let's go to stephen in pine bush, new york. caller: good morning. how are you? host: good. caller: really quick, inflation is unavoidable. it goes up, it goes down, basically controlled by the fed. they control our interest rate whether it goes up or down and depending upon that and having consumers being able to buy the

with the dollar, that all goes to the economy. it depends on who is in office. i just wish our representatives and our senators can actually get together and figure out how to keep things at an even keel. the reason why i am not sure or optimistic is our congressman and women are not really working for the american people. it all depends upon them. it can happen, but that is why i am not sure. thank you very much for your time. host: bellwood, illinois, terry.

caller: good morning, america. i feel optimistic about the economy but it behooves americans to carry other americans along with this success. i think we are losing that advantage and that is hitting us as a country. we have to look at it as a country as opposed to democrats and republicans. we have to carry the lower folks along with us. host: renee in grand prairie, texas. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i just wanted to thank you. i did not know the show existed. you have given the american people an outlet to express our opinions. we are all entitled to our opinions, but i do not have

faith in this current administration. i really feel that joe biden and his son, hunter, are corrupt. i feel this administration is not going to be the next administration to get us out of the problems we currently are in. again, thank you and thank you for letting me express my. host: grover in virginia. what do you think? caller: thank you. when they put trump in office -- he was a criminal before he became president and people could not see that? a friend of mine's son is secret service.

[indiscernible] now they are going after biden's 's son for stealing $50 million. trump's son-in-law went to iran and came back with $2 billion. what happened with that? host: we are out of time. coming up next on "washington journal", american psychological association's arthur evans discusses a new biden administration plan to expand access to mental health care. later will mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the korean war and its impact on south and north korea today. that conversation is with gregg brazinsky, professor of history and international relations at the george washington university. we will be ♪ right back. ♪

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on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are because the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we will be talking about access to mental health care with dr. arthur evans. there is a boost to the new 2008 law that was supposed to establish mental health care parity. guest: parity means that we treat substance use conditions

and mental health conditions the same way that we treat other health conditions. if a parent needs treatment, they would reach out to their health plan. hopefully, they would have a provider they could take their child to. for mental health there would be a long delay, often not weeks but months. with the parity law, you cannot treat physical -- mental health conditions any differently than you do physical health conditions. you wouldn't want to see the -- to see longer waits if your child has a mental health condition. the parity law is trying to make

sure that there is parity. host: our lines are regional so if you would like to call in and make a comment or ask a question, you can do so. if you are in the mountain or central time zones, the number is (202) 748-8000. if you are in the eastern or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. >> it doesn't have to be this way. one therapist wrote me who primarily treats teenagers, including some having suicidal

thoughts, and he said when his patients need to be hospitalized to save their lives, hospitals often -- insurance companies often deny the claims. this therapist says "i try to create time that i don't have to see more patients." "i am often the only person," he went on to say "who even calls them back." one woman wrote me about her mother, a retired teacher with a bipolar disorder. her daughter wrote, "too often companies determine the quality of care." she went on to say "please

advocate hard for the weakest among us." our plans will require health insurance plans to identify the gaps and the mental health care that they provide. they must measure how many mental health care providers there are in their network. some of you have dealt with this more than once. you get referrals to see mental health specialists, but when you make the appointment, they say "i cannot see you until you get special permission from the insurance company." give me a break. host: the law has been in place

for mental health parity. how come it has not been followed or enforced? guest: we needed to have stronger enforcement. what the president is doing, he recognizes if we are going to have parity we need to have transparency. we need to know what insurance companies are doing when it comes to providing mental health care. the litany of things he spoke about in terms of data that insurance companies have to now provide helps brings light to the problem. most parents or people seeking care, they are doing that in isolation. they have one experience. if they are not advocating, the insurance companies do not have to change, because they are not getting the kind of pressure from the public and from local officials that they need to receive. host: does your organization track how many people are going

without or are waiting months and months to see a provider, or possibly having to pay higher costs because their provider is out-of-network? host: guest: we don't -- guest: we don't track that data. we track our clinicians seeing higher -- are clinicians seeing higher waiting lists? before the pandemic we had a challenge in terms of people getting access to mental health care. after the pandemic we saw a significant rise in that. we know from what our providers tell us. even myself, i am a psychologist. i am head of the american psychological association. when i needed to get care for

family members, very difficult. it is not that providers are not always there. that is an issue at times, but even when they are there it is difficult for people to access that treatment. the people on their networks often have waiting lists. if you have 100 people on a network, and only five have an opening, you will have a problem accessing care. host: i want to redo you a statement from -- it is called america's health insurance plan. they said " access to mental health has been and continues to be cllenging primarily because of the shortage and lack of clicians, which is why for years health insurance providers havement programs to expand networks and incr access. those approach include

creating new coverage pathway with expanded telehealth and integrating mental and physical alth care. it alsinvolves working with primary care doctors on identifying mental health needs. health insurance providers have a consistent, clear commitment to improving access to mental health, as well as to solutions that will work for americans." there are a couple of things there. first, the reason it is hard according to them to access mental health care is there are not enough clinicians. guest: recognized we need to have more clinicians, but that does not prevent health insurers from ensuring that when people are seeking care that they have adequate network.

it does not mean that there should be barriers that people have to go through for accessing mental health services that they don't have to go through when they have a physical health condition. we can work on the workforce issues. what this will do is spur new efforts that the health insurers are working to make sure we have adequate people. i was just talking to a friend this week. she spent $30,000 out-of-pocket to get mental health care for her child, and she had to do that because the insurance company would not approve the care that her child needed. that is a story that we see quite often. often the parent goes out end gets care from -- out and gets

care from an out-of-network provider. they have to pay out-of-pocket. those kinds of things are what insurance companies can do today. host: some providers are going to say "it is too big of a headache to deal with these insurance companies. you just need to pay me." guest: that is an issue. if a provider has to do a lot of work, administrative work, unnecessary, arbitrary work to see people, they will often say "it is just not worth it." they will take a direct payment from the person, and then the person is left to negotiate with

their insurance company. sometimes they are reimbursed, sometimes they are not. host: this also mentioned the role of primary care doctors in diagnosing mental health needs. should they be the front line? guest: they are. primary care physicians and providers are extremely important. they are seeing people quite often, when they are in the midst of having mental health challenges. they have a trusted relationship with the person. they can be a real help in terms of identifying people and getting them connected to care. host: they also talked about telehealth and new technologies to expand care. what you think of that? guest: i think of the insurance companies did a good job during the pandemic in terms of allowing telehealth services to

be authorized and paid for. i would hope that they would continue that. we have been a strong advocate of that from a private insurance payment standpoint. host: we will talk to callers, but i want to ask you, we had a spike in mental health because of the pandemic. have you seen any evidence that, that is easing? guest: we anticipate we will have these issues for quite a while. after 9/11, after hurricane katrina, what we saw is that people who experienced trauma as a result of those events, many of them experienced mental health conditions long after those events. we anticipate that we will see these issues for quite a while, even if we had all the treatment

that we needed, which we don't, we would expect to see these things last. host: let's start with john calling from vernon, new jersey. caller: hi. excellent show, dr. events. this is so -- excellent show dr. evans. this is so pertinent to what is happening in new york. my question is this -- the city was given an $800 million grant from the federal government for the study of mental health. de blasio gave his wife the entire $800 million formed a task force to do the study on mental health.

years later, nobody knows where the money went, nobody knows where it went. $800 million that the mayor's wife was given -- do you have any idea what is going on, dr. evans? guest: i'm familiar with new york and the work that they did. i know something new york did is they pooled a lot of the money that they used for mental health. they try to create a comprehensive strategy to address mental health issues. we are always reaching and connecting with people after they are in crisis. with they were trying to do -- what they were trying to do is get upstream identify people much earlier.

what they were doing was looking at how they embedded mental health services, mental health capacity in the places where people were in the community as opposed to requiring people to try and find their way to a mental health clinic, or mental health provider. that was my understanding of their overall strategy. i think more and more mental health systems will be using similar kind of approaches to reach people a lot sooner. host: our next caller is steve. caller: it is about time that the psychological -- that a

psychological association representative is on c-span. host: in our defense this is not his first time on. caller: it is critical that your representation is on point. number one, what happened with the pandemic is that the trump administration canceled the funding for the cdc arm in china. when it comes to immigration, the trump administration canceled support for the triangle countries in central

america. host: how is that related to mental health? caller: all of it is related to mental health. the psychological association in the u.s., should have stepped into the fray of this political nonsense that is going on and give the people of the country a true meaning of what was happening in the country during the trump administration. it is critical for our democracy. why wasn't that done, dr. evans. guest: i'm not sure about the political issues, but let me point out a couple of things that you said that are important. we know from what we observe,

from what we hear directly from people that the pandemic had a huge impact on people's mental health. we know immigration policies can have a significant impact on mental health. as a provider community, we spoke out on all of the issues related to mental health issues coming out of the pandemic and immigration. the point you are making is important in this sense. we know mental health issues are not isolated things that happened to individuals. they are issues we experience that are affected by the things happening in our broader community and our broader society, and part of our strategy in terms of dealing with those issues is recognizing when those things are happening, to do what we can to mitigate policies so -- or address

policies so we can mitigate the impact. one of the things that happened during the last administration, there was a policy that her children from a psychological standpoint. that was taking them away from their parents forcefully without their parents' permission. we have decades of research to show how harmful that can be from a psychological standpoint, so we advocated for policies that were more in line with what we knew would be a more humane way of dealing with those children. the way policy effects mental health is important. it is an issue we speak out on. host: nancy is next in cedar falls, iowa. caller: good morning and thank you both. i i'm just getting personal

observations from experience. i have bipolar 2 disorder but, it was not diagnosed until i moved to who i.e.. my -- moved to hawaii. my bipolar disorder was triggered at age 12. they had, so when i what -- they had a professional discount so when i was an rn i didn't have to pay. treatment was very progressive in hawaii. it was really improved by emdr. i learned it from the person who created it. a lot of the problems now our

prior authorization and referrals being necessary for many insurance carriers. you have to be suicidal or a danger to another person. i had to tell them that i was completely suicidal to get mental health care in iowa, even though i was only near it. transportation is a problem because we have a lot of rural people here in iowa. host: let's get a response. guest: you said a lot of really good. i things you talked about are things we have to do to really improve our approach to mental health. you talked about screening and identifying people earlier. you mentioned insurance policies.

it is not just the policies around paying for services when people have a mental health diagnosis, but we need to go a step further. we know often when people are in a phase right before they have a severe mental health diagnosis. that. is a huge problem when we shift our policies so we are intervening at the earliest possible moment, it allows us to reach people earlier. it allows us to prevent people from havings more problems and it helps us to save money because we are reaching people at a point where they don't need high-cost services. host: jonathan, kenton, ohio, good morning. caller: hopefully everyone is

doing well today. i have observations. mental health did not just come on the platform now that everyone wants to make a load of mental health. mental health started when america was discovered. mental health shouldn't even be an issue for insurance. the mental health issue that should be discussed is the mental health of what the republicans are doing with, this redlining with gerrymandering. that is mental health. mental health is what desantis wants to do with slavery. these are the issues. the mental health that needs to be addressed is the mental health of the government because it is a little bit wacky. host: anything about the mental

health of the government? [laughter] guest: not so much the government, but the government policies. the caller is right, policies can have an impact on mental health. one of the things we are trying to promote is the idea that we should have policies that lineup and support people's mental health. organizations can do things to create environments that make our mental health suffer. there are organizations where people can work that can be very supportive. what we advocate for is the idea that we should be looking at all of the things that impact our mental health, and make good decisions whether it is at the policy level, the organizational level, or the individual level. guest: you mentioned toxic --

host: you mentioned toxic workplaces. your organization did a study on at 19of workers said their workplaces are very or somewhat toxic. 22% said they have experienced harm to their mental health at work 22 experienced harassment at work in the past 12 months. that is up from last year. 22 percent witnessed discrimination. 15% experienced discrimination. what do you make of those trends? guest: we are not surprised. we are surprised to the trend is going up. we have known for a long time that workplaces can be places that negatively affect their mental health. we have had for a number of

years a program called psychologically healthy workplaces. we look at the research on those things employers can do to really promote a positive psychological environment. host: like what? guest: things like creating psychological safety, giving your employees more choice. during the pandemic that was one of the strategies we used throughout our workforce to really give people choices and decisions. when people feel like they have more control over their lives, it is better for our psychological health. those are the decisions employers can make that can support people's mental health. when employers create those kinds of psychologically healthy workplaces it is related to their retention. those providers -- employers

that do that are much more likely to have employees that stay with them. they get higher productivity, and it contributes to their bottom line. we have documented that. it is another example of how important it is not only to understand how these issues affect this -- issues affect us personally. host: during the pandemic a lot of people started working from home. a a lot of people are still working from home. has that been good for people's mental health to, work from home giving them more flexibility and choices, or doesn't make them feel more isolated? guest: when we give people more choice, more control over their lives, it is better for them psychologically. what we have seen in our own

workforce, we give our staff a lot of flexibility on whether to work from home or work remotely. they choose to work remotely, and to has to do with if you are a parent. right now we don't have to worry about snow days, but i was a parent. that creates a lot of stress. when parents feel like they have more control, more flexibility, it is better for people. generally speaking, i would expect that most people would find that to be very helpful. one of the drawbacks to remote work is if people live alone they become more isolated and that is very bad for their mental health. host: logan is next in north carolina, good morning. caller: i have a question for dr. evans.

he says access and insurance coverage for mental health care. i'm retired now, and it is not because i am old. three point five years ago my anxiety got to a level where i could not work. right now my situation is a little bit worse. and i don't function a lot anymore. he talks about insurance. does dr. evans have an idea about what a private person like me could get insurance coverage other than the va.

host: are you a veteran? caller: yes. host: have you tried the va services, logan? caller: yes ma'am. host: were you able to get support from them? were you able to get an appointment? caller: oh yeah, i've stayed over there 5 times four 2 weeks at a time -- times for 2 weeks at a time, and they keep giving me medication that is not working. host: would you think about that? guest: i really hope you get the care and services that you need. the va has done a really good job in terms of integrating

evidence-based treatments. we have pretty good treatments, and i would encourage you to ask for "what are the best evidence-based treatments you have for the treatment of the condition" you have. permissive behavioral therapy is good for treating anxiety -- cognitive haverhill therapy is good for treating anxiety. having a condition will not be enough. you need to learn the skills to manage the anxiety, so if you are not getting psychotherapy, in particular cognitive behavioral therapy in addition to the medication, it will be difficult to overcome the condition that you have. host: kumari is in queens

village, new york, good morning. caller: good morning. my name is kumari and i am calling you because i have a mental person living in my home. he screams at night. it really disturbs me. he is not paying rent, and he walks up and down the street, screaming. nobody cares. his mother left him. he use to pelt her with pots and pans, and she would call the police every week one or two times a week and the police would not do anything. they would just leave him there, and when he would speak to

anybody on the streets, he would speak very nicely, but his sister used to commend help him -- to come and help him clean the place. there are rats and roaches running up and down. host: are you asking what you should do to help? what is the actual question? caller: i just want him to get some serious help. even though he has a social worker, they don't do anything for him. guest: i'm sorry to hear about the challenges he is having. for all people in the u.s., you should live in a community that has access to community mental health services. this sounds like a person who receives their care through the

public mental health care system. in all states throughout the u.s., there are resources for those who have serious mental health illnesses. those should be comprehensive. it should not be a person showing up for medication once or twice every month. it should be a whole series of services, including psychotherapeutic services, giving therapy often. those communities will pay for supportive housing. there is a real move in most communities to have what are called pure services. those are people with lived experience who have gone through it and recovered from a very serious mental illness. they can be an important help. what i would be looking for is

not just getting medication or even getting therapy, begetting a whole set of services that community mental health centers have available to them. host: one last call from tammy in north carolina. caller: i am on medicare. what do we do about medications that are new? insurance does not pay for them because they are so expensive and you have to go through many steps in order to be approved for medication. what is the process that can be done for insurances that wound pay for the newest -- that won't pay for the newest medications? guest: if you have a private insurance, in any case i would

work with my physician to be an advocate for you to the insurance company. if you are working for a private employer, you can also go to your employee and let them know the problems you are having. we started this conversation by talking about parity laws. one of the things i hope will come out of this is employers will see the need for parity for their employees, and be part of the solution in terms of really requesting that the insurers they have have access. i would go that route. if you receive your care through a public payer like medicaid, most people in medicare, you can

certainly advocate here plan around that. host: dr. arthur evans, nice to talk to you, ceo of the american psychological institution. at the top of the hour we will mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the korean war and its impact on -- we are joined by dr. greg brezinski -- dr. gregg brazinsky. you can start calling you now. we -- calling in now. we wil rightack. ♪ >> live sunday august 6 on

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counter the le in america. a u.s. court of appeals justice discusses clarence thomas in his book "the people's justice." watch book tv every sunday on c-span2. ♪ >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. it is open forum. i will take your calls for the next 15 minutes until the top of the hour 9:00 a.m. eastern. jan is next. caller: i have not called in for a while, but this week there was a caller who called in about a so-called geriocracy in our

government. i don't agree often with mitch mcconnell. like him i had a fall several months ago and had 2 ct scans. i am over 70. the caller who talked about that group of people should be removed and all the 15-year-olds should be in government, i can only say to him that with age comes wisdom. i admire president biden, former president trump, even mitch mcconnell for their ability to get things done. i was not happy with the caller who came in and said we needed to remove the older generation

from our senate, our house, are presidency, because unless they have serious cognitive dysfunction they are valuable members of our democracy. have a great saturday. host: patricia is a republican in plano, texas. caller: yes, i was culling in about the curriculum in florida for black history. i wonder when you are going to have somebody to address the criticism coming out of the white house from the vice president. maybe you can get her on their to go -- there to go nose to nose with them. host: tom is in mclean, virginia.

caller: i am an 88-year-old guy. i have survived the great depression, world war ii. i grew up a boston irish catholic democrat. you could not get more democratic than that. what has happened to this country under biden i cannot believe it and it scares the hell out of me. bidenomics -- i just looked at the price of gas today, and it is disgusting. my kids are suffering badly. they are working their butts off, and they cannot stay ahead of the prices.

bidenomics are not working. host: you would have been a child during the great depression. what was it like? what did you experience? caller: it was difficult. the only thing that got me through it was my family. now the extreme liberal end of the democratic party is trying to do away with the family. host: all right. let's talk to lewis and waycross, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning mimi, you good looking thing. they rode song about you call -- wrote a song about you called "witch woman" by the eagles.

host: next caller. caller: i work in the hospital, but there is broad consensus this week that dianne feinstein, mitch mcconnell, are two individuals from our medical standpoint you need to be tested by reliable physicians as to whether they are up to the job. our concern is about these -- is that these individuals who may be cognitively impaired are deciding the future of my children and grandchildren, and it is not morally right for them to hang on to their offices before they have been determined by practitioners whether they are qualified for their jobs. they're making very important decisions on climate change

where they are either unable or unwilling to say -- i know from experience that these men get up 5 times a night to urinate. their vision is complement -- compromised. obviously, these two examples of feinstein and mcconnell this week were extreme examples of people who can no longer manage their drops. -- their jobs. host: yesterday was the lincoln dinner in iowa. all of the gop candidates aside from chris christie were there. . the des moines register about it. "iowa has never had a better friend, trump says to a friendly dinner. ron desantis spoke in front of

the annual lincoln dinner in front of des moines. the 13 hopefuls were in front of a sellout crowd of more than 1000 guests and more than 100 plus registered members of the press, bringing almost the entire presidential field to iowa>" let's take a look at a portion of the former president's comments. [video clip] >> iowa has never had a better friend in the white house than president donald j. trump. i made a lot of promises to the people of this great state, and as your president i kept everyone of those promises. we got hundreds of billions of dollars that we gave to farmers. the largest amount was given to iowa.

we replaced it with the brand-new usmca. mexico-canada was the best trade deal ever made. the two nations are trying very hard to renegotiate the deal. don't let them do that. while i never mentioned that because of covid, i also got china --and this is so important -- to buy $50 billion worth of american farm product, and they were buying it. i have been an unwavering warrior for iowa ethanol, and i will remain your ethanol champion, very important to your economy. ron desantis has aggressively fought against ethanol, which would be devastating for iowa. as a president -- as president i

made a role that e15 could be sold year-round. i dramatically increased the number of gas pumps where e15 could be sold all across the country. host: that was from last night at the lincoln dinner in iowa. it is open forum. let's talk to, bob in dallas texas. caller: i was an independent voter. now it is the republican party and the socialist-marxist party. president trump was one of our greatest presidents. now that all of the independents are trying to get him out so he cannot get back in, but he was a great president, and i have

voted for democrats in the past. host: all right. the new york times says this -- trump spared attacks by rivals in iowa does not return the favor. almost all of the 13 rivals declined to mention the front runner. here is governor ron desantis of florida. h was theree at the lincoln dinner and he pushed back on criticism about his history curriculum and how slavery is taught in florida schools. [video clip] >> we will ensure that parents in this country have the right to direct the upbringing of their kids. schools are important but they do not supersede the rights of parents. we want education in this country, not indoctrination in this country. we got it done in florida, and

we need to get it done nationally. i got kamala harris coming down to florida, trying to create a phony narrative because she understands florida has stood up to the left's agenda. we'agenda in that -- we have beat the left's agenda in florida. i am not going to budge an inch. we will get this right as a nation. host: that was governor desantis from last night, and kerry is calling us on the independent line, lafayette, indiana. caller: i would like to bring up "the great reset." by the year 2030 he says we will own nothing and be happy.

joe biden has done something to help him. he sent an executive order to the federal reserve to have a digital currency. it said on youtube if that gets into effect, we will have no freedoms left. if we try to buy guns or ammunition, they will say "you cannot have that. if you ever try to buy anything like that again, you will never see a penny of your own money." biden is involved with doing that. it is scary. they want to turn this into a communist country. a communist world is what they all want. it is very upsetting. host: all right. let's talk to a democrat in jacksonville, north carolina.

caller: good morning. my whole issue is i am a retired military man. i have voted democrat, and i have voted republican. i don't understand the fascination with donald trump. someone with that background, how can he even run for president? you cannot even get into the military or no government job if you had half the stuff he has. i don't understand this country right now, why they keep following this guy. that is all i have to say. host: that is all the time that we have for today's open forum. it has been 70 years since the fighting stopped on the korean peninsula, and yet the tensions in that region continue today. next up is gregg brazinsky.

he will discuss the korean war armistice, but first here is a 1953 newsreel of the armistice agreement. [video clip] >> latest headline of the century -- august 5, 1953 and a moment the story. after the signing of the armistice in korea the final artillery shell of the campaign was fired by weary u.s. troops. a cease-fire had ended hostilitie. the troops that just a few hours had before had been clawing at each other now joined in this moment of relieved celebrations. peace had come to korea.

the united nations police force smilingly returned on foot and by truck, one of the most unorthodox wars in history had ended by mutual consent on both sides and now cames the moment that the loved ones at home awaited, the repatriation of prisoners of war on both sides. now the troops would be known. beginning on august 5, 1953 and the endless parade of prisoners from both sides began. the release to south korean prisoners did not have far to travel to reach the arms of their loved ones. as repatriated by the communist forces. not all of them could make it under their own power.

some would days -- evidence of communist brainwashing techniques. of the more than 75,000 soldiers release in the trade, the vast majority had bitter hatred of you enforces. -- un forces. the first american was the wounded and healed. they managed week smiles and waves to the families and friends waiting anxiously to shower them with defection and embraces -- affection and embraces. some veterans have risked their lives or because -- for a cause whose issues were unclear but a battle that had to be equation they knew they were the lucky ones. over 33,000 other buddies left

behind in grace on the korean countryside. the police action was at an end. the living could rejoice. ♪ host: welcome back. the korean war armistice was signed in july 27, 1933 and here to reflect on that event is gregg brazinsky. professor of history of international affairs at george washington university. welcome to the program. guest: thank you for having me. host: let's start with when the korean war began. when did it start and the events that led up to it? guest: to understand the origins of the korea war you have to look at korea during the period between 1910 and 1945 when it was under japanese colonialism. the reason you have to look at that period is because japanese

colonialism created very deep social and political divisions between koreans because there were many koreans who suffered in a lot of different ways under japanese colonialism, but there were also some koreans who benefited in different ways. when world war ii inns in 1945, korea -- ends in 1945, korea is a very different society and even if you take out china, u.s., and the soviet union, it is likely it would have been some type of civil comput in korea but the cold war got to superimpose and korea with the united states occupying southern korea in 1945 and soviet union occupying northern korea and soviets helping the left to come

to power in their occupied zone and u.s. helping conservatives come to power in their occupied zone. you have a situation where you have these two very different groups of koreans that come to power and gain prominence in different occupied zones. the united states had actually never intended to divide korea. they always thought eventually the occupation would in and they will come up with a formula for unifying the entire peninsula but then the cold war sets in and becomes more difficult to come up with any kind of arrangement with the soviet union for unified korea state. this is what leads in 1948 to the creation of two separate and hostile korean states with the new north korean state saying that south korea has no legitimacy and is a puppet of

american imperialism, and the south korean government led by syngman rhee saying that north korea has no legitimacy and is a puppet of the soviet union and communism. the two states do not like each other and syngman rhee and south korea want to have a war with the north but the united states is firmly opposed. north korea wants to invade the south but initially stalin's very opposed and at the time north korea is very dependent on soviet leadership and stalin's aid, but stalin's calculation starts to shift. host: first i want to remind our viewers if they would like to call in and ask a question or make a comment, our phone lines are regional. eastern/central timezones, 202-748-8000.

mountain/pacific timezones, 202-748-8001. if you are a korean war veteran or a family member of a korean war veteran, we would love to hear about you and your experience. that number is 202-748-8002. you can text us at 202-748-8003. and all social media. let's talk about the actual combatants. he was fighting and where? -- who was fighting and where? guest: the main combat as well as united nations command and it is organized under the leadership of the truman administration. it is the truman administration that brings the korea issue to the united nations. there is a total of i believe 22 nations that participate in the united nations command and of course you have south korea as one combat along you -- un command. on the communist side he had the

-- the chinese volunteers who served under the leadership of the chinese communist party. host: what were some the turning points of the war? guest: there are a lot of turning points especially when you talk about the military conflict. one of the key turning points is the battle of inchon because during the early stages of the war, the north koreans were actually qui scessful. they pushed u.s. and sthorea forces all the way back to an area in southeastern korea is known as the perimeter they occupor a period of several months most of what we consider south korea. in september 1950, mur decides on thon landing and with data landing, and with data landing, the korean forces are trapped in a pincer movement and they are forced to retreat.

another key turning point would come in the fall of 1950, the u.s. and south korea counteroffensive is very successful. for a period of time, you have u.s. and south korean forces occupying northern korea. the reason that collapses is because of the entry of chinese forces into the war in the fall of 1950 and it is really december 1950 that they start to enter in full force and american and you -- u.n. troops are forced to evacuate from north korea. host: forwarding to the freedom armistice that was signed, how did that come about? how did the parties come together? guest: gabby negotiations over the armistice for quite a while

-- there have been negotiations over the armistice for a while and it was difficult because of contentious issues. one of the contentious issues was the geography. where would you drawhe dividing line between the two koreans stays? -- states? there was a lot of debates about the issues. the armistice negotiations come about because the are a couple of significantolitical changes that occur in early 1953. one is in u.s., president dwight eisenhower is elected and in november 1952 election. he is determined to end what is an increasingly unpopular war in united states. it also relates to the death of stalin's can be soviet union. stalin had a sort of wanted the war to continue. he thought it occupied the united states and force them to

commit resources to a very difficult because. host: which it did. guest: right, which it did, but after stalin's death, the leaders who come to power in the soviet union after him start saying it is time to try to pursue peace on the korean peninsula. host: this is agreement is only an military agreement. it is not political. so technically the war has not ended. guest: that is absolutely correct. technically the u.s. and north korea have still been at war since 1950. the armistice calls for armisti- even to this day, north korea is one of a handful of may 4 or five countries that neither states still does not recognize and has no form of relations with the.

it is not and in ap streatery. -- it does not end in a piece treaty. in armistice is different from a peace treaty. host: let's go to andy first in texas. are you a korean war veteran? caller: yes, i am a korean war vet. along with my younger brother. we were on the battleship. he is now deceased. i am also a wwii that any vietnam that. -- wwii vet and vietnam vet. host: what did you experience? caller: we ran up and down the coast for nine months.

my one experience wasmy one expe anchored the harbor and we spent the night insulation to the shore. the daylight passed the word to see an anchor detail and my station was running the anchor up and down. the show started popping over our his and alongside -- shells started popping over our heads. i thoroughly break off -- threw the break off. it took a bite out of the ship. we took a direct hit. my kid brother was injured and i thought we have a big problem

here. after we scared from bouts detail, i rounded up my kid brother and he said he did not even care that the shell hit. host: i'm glad you guys are ok. guest: yes, thank you for your service. i would say, i think a lot of his experience sounds somewhat familiar to me as a historian of the war, although of course i never experience it myself, but the chaos that surrounded a lot of the operations. american shoes were rushed to the korean peninsula in 1950 because the north korean invasion went so sudden and unexpected. the other thing in terms of the korean war and how it was followed, there was this initial period between 1950 and early

1951 where territory is getting exchange were north korean forces make rapid process and then they have to do a hasty retreat but a lot of the war exposure between 1951 and 1953 is a war of attrition fought over very small amounts of territory. it is hard to know exactly from your description if that is what was happening in your case, but it sounds like it may have been the case. thank you very much for your reflection and your comments. host: tony in chicago, illinois. good morning. caller: hi. good morning. glad we are having this segment. very interesting. little-known part of history i guess you could say in u.s. earlier you mentioned the country already, the korean

peninsula, was already somewhat divided and i would like you to expand on that because to my knowledge after imperial japan had been defeated that there was a popular movement within the korean peninsula. it was kim ii sung. his movement was very popular among the country and it was the u.s. who built up the webcam the south korean military by training and utilizing a lot of the former generals and soldiers who were fighting for the japanese against trees during the occupation to prop up the military using those so-called traitors to the country. i feel like there is somewhat unification already on the

island when it became apparent it was kim ii sung movement that was the popular movement, it was the opportunity for u.s. to start what will become centuries of imperial influence and military influence of popular movements around the world. also did not neglect to mention that u.s. bombs killed over 3 million, roughly a third of the population of korea. guest: those are a couple of very good points and interesting place. i think according to many historical interpretations, the left was actually more popular on the korean peninsula then the conservatives were in part because conservatives were more tainted by some history of collaboration with japanese colonialism. there were some genuinely conservative nationalists in korea at the time. i think it is important to remember that. somebody like segment three --

syngman rhee was difficult for u.s. to deal with but one think you couldn't that say about him he was pro-japanese or had no popular basis. but nonetheless i do think that in many places the left was more popular and there were a number of instances, especially between 1948 and 1950 where left this movement and uprisings were suppressed either by u.s. military occupation of korea or by some combination of united states and syngman rhee forces. the most notorious of these would be the the massacre. i would -- the last comment about the american aerial bombings of north korea is also very much correct.

i have spoken with chinese veterans of the war and it is just incredible how traumatizing -- they can still remember it and they would say even a dog could not escape from american bombings of north korea during the war. by saying this, i am not really saying united states was completely in the wrong, i do think ultimately the reason that these minor and civil conflict between north and south korea that occurred between 1948 and 1950, the reason that parents into a larger military war is because kim ii sung besides debates of korea in june 1950. host: do we have numbers of civilian deaths on the korean peninsula during the war? guest: we do not have exact numbers but we do have estimates.

all of the estimates point to the number of civilian deaths being pretty devastating may be a total of something like 3 million. consider the total population of korea at the time is probably no more than 30 million, that is a pretty significant share of the population. you have thousands of war orphans in north korea and south korea. you have massive devastation of infrastructure, schools, virtually everything, not only in north korea, but on both sides of the korean peninsula. host: how many american troops killed or wounded? guest: i think the estimates on the number of troops is never exact but i think the latest estimates i have heard on american troops is about 30,000 u.s. forces lost their lives in the korean theater. host: after the korean armistice was signed in 1953 the commander

of u.s. forces and u.n. forces was general mark clark. [video clip] >> it will allow some of the groovy wounds of korea to hill. i am thankful. it is however only a step forward what must yet be done. the path now is up at the cease-fire agreement into full effect as quickly as we can get down to working out settlement of the korean problems. i cannot find it in me to -- in this hour, rather it is a time for prayer. we may succeed in our difficult endeavor to turn this armistice to the advantage of mankind. if we extract hope from this occasion, it must be diluted with the recognition that our salvation requires an relaxing

vigilance and effort. host: i wonder what actually changed after that armistice was signed. military hostility ended. what else? guest: military hostilities in but aside from that, i think the korean war actually has a very big impact on the world. first of all, the united stas and south koreaecome allies as a result of this, a mutual security agreement is signed briefly after the war. united states also ratchets up his commitment to the security of east asia in general. another consequence is that taiwan and china remain divided. i think before the korean war, the truman administration had assumed that the ccp is eventually going to conquer taiwan, but during the eay

stages of the korean war, the u.s. moved the seventh fleet into the taiwan straight. all of a sudden the u.s. is building up a new surity architecture in the asia-pacific and a lot of that is a direct consequence of the korean war and you also have north korea becoming very deeply entrenched in the communist geo strategic structure . that is sort of how the war changes the overall geopolitical picture. i think for koreans the war was devastating and the end of the fighting, if it did anything, it finally gave them a chance to start to reconstruct, which is very needed after the war. host: let's talk to marcus who is a korean war veteran in

western virginia. good morning. caller: i am not about my dad's older brother served in the korean war. i never actually met him. he defected. as a black man in you as he was not really dealing with grace of -- great stuff. one think he consistently mentioned the massacre was something that stuck out with him and he said there is like 30,000 people american military killed before the war even started. my started hearing what was happening by the u.s. he just left. the something i've not thought about. i am a veteran myself. i serving in the marine corps

does in the seventh fleet and now that i think back on it i was in the child sign in as an american and may be all of this is just like empire self, may be the korean war vietnam war, iraq and in to stand war, may be although that was just america trying to impose its will on the rest of the world. i do not know -- do you think there's any truth to that? it is hard for me to rectify service in military why did not feel like i was defending my country when i learned about all of these atrocities. host: what do you think? guest: whatever your feelings, thank you for your service. i would say the sinchon

massacre was something i alluded to earlier and absolutely it was a horrific event. what had happened is after, as japanese colonialism ended, koreans had tried to create these autonomous governmenta; units called people's committee and they assume control over local administrative functions in different parts of the korean peninsula. it is a small island located off of south korea's -- look at off the coast so it always been one of the hardest parts of the peninsula for the new government to establish its authority over what happens is when the new south korean government tries to establish its authority there there is an uprising that is against this.

the united states does oversee the suppression of this. they have built up a south korean constabulary at the time. this constabulary is basically it plays a function of the military but because south korea is not an independent state until august 1948, you cannot officially say it is a south korean army. there was a massive suppression of this uprising. it is still an extremely controversial issue in south korea today with the conservatives and the left having very different perspectives on whether it was necessary to suppress it, and whether the level of brutality that was use to suppress it was necessary. i think the broader questions you ask, is this part of a broader american empire and

american effort to impose his will on the rest of the world, i think to a degree, yes, but i think i guess taking a slightly different perspective, i think south korea has also benefited in some ways from this. i think at the communist had taken over all of the korean peninsula he would not have had the wealthy prosperous diver democracy you have in south korea today. i do think united states to intervene -- did intervene in a lot of civil wars and it is certainly good as americans to question whether we should be doing that and whether it is right to be doing that. but i also think in korean case, we should also keep in mind u.s.-south korean alliance has

been far from a failure in a lot of ways. host: juanita in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to give a shout out to my uncle john lewis junior who was a bactrian war veteran. -- korean war veteran. he was air force in 1950. he hung the telephone wire. he was responsible for communications. that war was the first war that saw integrated units, black and

whites, together. the second thing, to point out we must remember that the russians did not stop fighting in korea until one week after the japanese side the armistice in 1945. he said that is why we ended up at the 38th parallel. that is why it was. my uncle is still alive and lives here in cincinnati. when the chinese came over and heard that, he said it was frightening, but at that time the american military had matured and most guys could check each other's back. i want to give a shout out to my uncle and all the better

is to live and let them know that we love you. thank you. guest: yes, i have a couple of comments about that. first of all, you are right, the integration of the armed forces does start after world war ii under the truman administration. it was a very important and significant historical development even if it took several decades for there to be true equality. i want to elaborate on the point you made about the soviets not getting, not moving into the korean peninsula. this is an interesting point. the soviets towards the end of world war ii, even though the soviets are fighting on the side of the allies, they actually do not declare war on japan and japan is not declare war on the soviet union. there's this period of strange neutrality.

the united states was hoping that the soviet union would clare war on japan because the war against japan was so costly to the united states. then in 1945, u.s. jobs the atomic bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki andapan surrenders much more quily than anybody thought it would. that has an important effect because previously the u. had more or less assumed the soviet union would occupy manchuria and all of korea and u.s. with need to give the soviet union some role in the occupation of japan t when it becomes clear they do n need the soviets in the war ainst japan and u.s. with unilaterally -- with unilaterally occupy japan, the truman administration starts to become more ambitious. if you look at history, there is no reason that korea should have

been divided at all or occupied after world war ii. korea had to function as a single political and economic unit for centuries. but u.s. was worried about securing the occupation of japan.they propose this rather arbitrary dividing line along the 38th parallel to stalin and stalin accepted much to the gym and administration surprise and that is the origins of how you got separate occupation zones and eventually south and north korea stays. it is important point to bring up. host: joel in new mexico. are you a creation veteran? -- korean war veteran? caller: no, but i am a lawyer who prosecuted the government to locate the whereabouts of a prisoner of war and left behind in 1983.

the trial went on for quite some time and we ended up winning the trial. the judge found in our favor they had left him and by talking to johnson, the ambassador at the armistice signing, he was partly responsible for it, that we had left him behind. guest: yes. i think there is still a lot of questions about what happened to some of our gis in korea. i forget the exact number but probably says of thousands of pows who were captured by communist forces during the korean war, most of them are accounted for but there is also the question of the remains of a

lot of the people who fought in korea. just identifying the remains and having these remains repatriated was a major issue between the u.s. and north korea and the communist side during the korean war for a long time. we have seen some movement towards resolution that recently but it is still an outstanding issue in some ways. host: must the armistice was signed admitted all pows were repatriated? guest: there was an interesting issue with the repatriation of the pows because not all of them wanted to be repatriated. you had -- the u.s. and you -- u.n. command captured more pows than the communist forces. these pows were subject to constant anti-communist

propaganda over the course of the korean war. by the time the wharton's can we have a number of korean -- and a cream pows that did not want to go back. some of the stay in south korea. have a number of chinese pows who do not want to go back to communist china created the want to go back to taiwan so that it was a contentious issue throughout the negotiations. the chinese and north korean cytosolic as an embarrassment that the pows did not want to be repatriated. according to the terms of the armistice, every pow is given a choice. they can either repatriated to their native country. theyould stay where they are ptured or they can choose to go to a neutral country. most of the po choose to be repatriated to their home countries but many not.

there is a large number of ti-communist pows who are not repatriated or who stay in south korea go to taiwan. there's a small number of american pows who choose not to go back to the united states and is that stay in communist china after the korean war ended the. it is a small group but it does happen. host: steve in new york. good morning. caller: good morning. my father was a world war ii endocrine veteran. i was curious if the north koreans could do a really good gesture and release the ship they captured there. the peblo. guest: the chances probably are not very good. i do not know what the value the

ship itself would be to the united states today but the reason chances are not good is because it is sort of red article of pride in north korea that they captured this american spy ship. i believe they actually turned it into a museum where they take visitors from china or even the trickle of visitors from the west and other countries and they proudly display the pueblo as a triumph of north korea over the u.s. imperialist. i do not think that is going to happen. i also think there's a number of other good gestures that the north koreans could make that would alleviate frictions on the korean peninsula sufficiently. -- significantly. guest: recently we have seen a barrage of missile test and i think that is something that --

i did not think anybody likes it when north korea carries out these missile tests except for maybe north korea itself because it is a destabilizing influence in the region. the test i've been on and off over the years and the north koreans -- the test has been on and off over the years in the north koreans says u.s. should make a goodwill gesture by stopping military exercises but i think those are the kinds of things that might mitigate friction on the peninsula a bit. host: robert in tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i was -- about four years old, my uncle came from mississippi to fly to the army base. he was driving.

instead of catching a plane, they had one extra guy in mississippi platoon. he did not go with the mississippi unit and that whole unit was wiped out. i was in korea in the 70's, 71, the reason i'm in the same category as a vietnam veteran as far as the army air force is concerned, i was in the air force, but on the korean airbase in northern, south korea, at that time, the soviet union was a very interested in south korea. they were building up tanks to

go into invade south korea from north korea. it was a part of the think most people miss in vietnam war how close soviet union was getting to invading the south. but i believe the name of the ship that was mentioned was the pueblo that north korea captured. thank you for listening. guest: yes, thank you very much and i think you -- your general point about the history is correct. although i think it was more north korea that is building up and considering an invasion of south korea during the early 1970's. i think this period between 1968

and early 1970's exactly a period of increase north korea adventurism on the korean peninsula as a whole. you have not only the capture of the pueblo but you also have another incident in which the north koreans shot down an american spy plane. this occurred at the beginning of the nixon administration. you have an ax murderer incident in demilitarized zone. you also have multiple north korean efforts to try to assassinate the president of south korea. in one of the reasons for this is because he had been so extraordinarily successful in lifting south koreans out of poverty and the north koreans were very well aware that south korea was making enormous economic strides under his

presidency. there is this period of heightened -- also maybe now would be the best possible time to invade the south because u.s. is so preoccupied with vietnam and it does not want to fight two wars at once. host: at an event on thursday marking the 70th anniversary of the armistice here's representative mark gallagher from wisconsin discuss what he sees as the best way to remember the war. [video clip] >> time and time again we are reminded at great cost that would allows us to live in peace and freedom is strength. it is our investment in a robust military deterrent and the korean war stands as a reminder of the enormous costs when deterrence fails. if we remember anything else, on this day, is that we should dedicate ourselves to the cause

of peace and peace is best achieved through strength. strength is not just a matter of how many weapons we have or how distract of the weapons, but the fighting spirit, the esprit de corps of a young man and woman that we asked to stand on the walls of freedom and the fighting spirit and esprit de corps of the allies we ask to fight with us. certainly as the audience here demonstrates, we are stronger when we fight hand in hand with our allies. while we pray whenever forced to fight again, we must do everything possible to prepare for the outcome to prevent it from happening. i reminded eisenhower said in his famous i should go to korea speech. if one were to tell us anything is this, to hesitate, to appease even bite really betraying

purpose, to invite or itself -- war itself. let's learn the lesson of today of all days and make sure the forgotten war is not forgotten. host: want to ask you about that phrase the forgotten war sometimes referred to that way in u.s. how is it seen today both his and of korea, and i know that might be hard to gauge, but also in south korea? guest: both koreans see the war as a horrible tragedy that led to the permanent division of their country and to the loss of millions of lives. i think first and foremost when koreans look at the war, that is how they think about it. it is definitely not the forgotten war in korea.

it is really the war that shape the national identities a korean stays in many ways. in north korea, it is sort of viewed the way we may view our war of independence. it was a war in which from the north korean perspective, the imperialists were doing everything they could to topple their regime and to destroy north korea, but they were able to resist that with help from the chinese volunteers wish the north koreans often play it down in their contemporary discourse about the war. in south korea because you have more democratic society, there is room for more honest debate about the korean war. there is a lot of debate about what the word meant and what the -- what roles different powers

played and whether they could have been -- done better and i think this very much still an ongoing debate but it is definitely not a forgotten war in either of the two koreas. host: darrell calling from maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to mention your guest called it the korean war. i refer to it as the korean conflict. my father fought in korea back in i think 1952. he was wanted -- he was wounded. it is not until matthew ridgway came about that -- i think operation killer that after the debacle at the charles on -- chosin the fog back made it to a stalemate because is about a two

year stalemate. other than that, i would say, macarthur was a great general, however, he was a little bit arrogant because they kept telling him the chinese were coming over the border but he did not listen. you had what she called the great retreat with what happened at chosin. all right i will listen to your guest now. guest: what you said is basically right. in terms of operation killer and operation ripper, what had happened there, this occurs in the spring of 1951. the chinese have entered the war in the winter of 1950 and they actually try with the north koreans to push the you and -- u.n. and south korean forces off

of the korean peninsula so seoul falls again in 1951 but then what happens is matthew ridgway does launch this very successful counteroffensive in spring of 1951 if you wish destroy chinese and communist -- in which they destroy chinese and communist forces along seoul. in terms of your point about macarthur, this is also sort of one of the criticisms that macarthur would make of the truman administration. one of the reasons that macarthur would eventually be dismissed because macarthur was talking about launching a more general invasion of the chinese mainland. the truman administration said that it goes too far. that would get us into world war iii. we're not going to do that.

eventually the disagreements between the truman administration and macarthur over how to wage the war became too great. despite the success of the inchon landing, macarthur is ultimately forced to resign. host: george in michigan. good morning. caller: hi. how's it going? guest: hello. caller: i want to talk about my experience when i was in korea 1966. i had a secret clearance. there is a north korean patrol they came down through the dmz. we got a patrol because we patrolled there. they came down.

they went in there and the soldiers stole their wallets and weapons they had. there was one guy that left. he is the one that tells the story but this is years ago. host: you are breaking. are having trouble making out what you said. guest: a kindest estimable he was saying about border incidents along the dmz -- i could understand some of what he was saying about border incidents among the dmz. it is still one of the -- i think bill clinton called it the scariest place on earth.

if you visit, you can see you have south korea and north korean forces staring each other down. the protocols there need to be very strictly observed. when there's even a slight deviation from that, it often is leased to an incident. i did not catch all the details of what he said but i would surmise it might be something along those lines. host: speaking of border incidents, you have the travis king situation with him going across the border into north korea. what do you make of that? guest: that is a very unusual situation because he was not abducted as has been the case in the past. but he went voluntarily. i think this is a relatively new diplomatic circumstance that the biden administration will have

to grapple with. what do you do when you have someone who was not forcefully abducted, but decisively, -- but he decisively, my understanding there is pending investigation, trials. it is definitely an unusual circumstance and it can be resolved in any of a number of ways. host: you wrote a book called nationbuilding in south korea, koreans, americans, the makings of a democracy. guest: my book mostly picks up after the armistice. what i look at in the book is this important phenomenon in south korea. the vast majority of countries that were subject to colonialism, at one point in

their history, the so-called global south if you look at them today, there are very few that become prosperous democracies. i look at this process that occurred mostly during the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's where south korea goes through rapid economic growth and and eventually democratize this in the 1980's. i try to analyze what role u.s. place in this process. host: sadie in virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. are you able to hear me? host: yes. caller: i want to say your comment about the number of people that died in korea it concerns me of what albright said to come she said we have heard have a one million iraqi children have died. there are more children that

died in hiroshima. the price we think is worth it, the price of children and kids dying is never worth it. i want to recommend the movie battle of -- it is a really good movie. i have a question. there is a scene where ballots struggle around and shoot the people -- pilots shoot the people. that really happen? travis king ran to the -- rather than go back to texas. guest: i have not seen the film. i believe that is a chinese movie to my recent chinese movie about the korean war. in terms of that the u.s. carry

out bombings of people who were lying low? yes. the u.s. bombings of north korea were intense and horrific. north koreans built an extensive system of underground tunnels. living anywhere above ground was dangerous at the time. there is no question that it was horrific. i think if you're going to look at the korean war in general and you're going to look at what was morally justified and what was not morally justified, it is always a difficult question. i think especially in the context of the korean war because it was kim ii sung who i think historical evidence is clear that it was kim ii sung who took the actions that led to the larger war in the peninsula

but if you're going to look at things that united states did wrong and question the moral justifications, i do think the extensive bombings of north korea where they were not only bombing military targets but they were balmy infrastructure, they bombing civilian infrastructure. there are really punishing the country. i think that would be one of the first things that come to my mind. host: what do you think is the legacy of the korean war? guest: i think there's a lot of legacies. one of them is that the korean peninsula has remained divided. it has been a very tragic legacy when you talk about -- we look at it from that perspective. another legacy has been long standing bitterness between s -- another legacy is that it took more than 20 years after the

korean war for us to even open up relations with communist china and i still think it is one of the things that the chinese go to today in terms of when they criticized the united states. a lot of it does go back to the lingering role that the korean war has all the the mentality of chinese communist leaders. the war legacies were vast and complicated. host: will end with a tweet we got from mlb who says this, my father served in the aircraft carrier valley forge in the korean war. he was faced with the reality they were bombing korea while his brother was serving as an army infantry soldier on the ground they were bombing. my uncle was wounded but they both came home alive. that is all the time we have for

this program create gregg brazinsky george washington university professor and also author of the book nationbuilding in south korea: koreans, americans commended the making -- and the making of democracy. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will be back again tomorrow morning 7:00 a.m. eastern live here on c-span. in the meantime, have a great saturday. ♪ ♪ >> c-span is "washington journal" life form involving you

just discuss the latest issues in government, politics from washington dc and across the country. coming up sunday morning we talk with author and strategies frank luntz about campaign 2024 and discussed the recent congressional hearing on unidentified air you objects -- aerial objects with harvard astrophysicists. join in the conversation live at seven a.m. eastern sunday morning on c-span, c-span noun, or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> a year before arkansas's little rock central high school was desegregated, 12 black students in tennessee enrolled by court mandate in 1956 fall semester. sunday night on q&a historian rachel martin author of the book and most tolerant a little town

talks about the experience of the students who desegregated the first goal in the south following brown v. board of education. >> after school lets out a black woman who was walking by is pushed down, her glasses gets broken, another woman has a bottle thrown at her. some kids try to rough up black teenager who has nothing to do with the desegregation and then that night white segregationists protesters take over the courthouse square and host the first of a series of nightly rallies getting everybody all route of about desegregation -- by the next warning, there are many more people outside the school and it is a lot more contentious and heading towards violence. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a.