>> coming up on washington journal, your calls and comments. we will talk with frank luntz about camping 2024 and political news of the day, and discussed the recent congressional hearing on unidentified aerial checks -- objects with harvard astrophysicist avi loeb. washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning, it is sunday, july 30 and today we are doing a show focusing on

republican and independent reviewers. we want to know, who is your candidate in the 2024 presidential election and why? just for today's show, we want to hear for republicans and independents. democrats, we will get to you and your candidates tomorrow. our phone lines are a little bit different this morning. if you support donald trump, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you support another candidate in the republican field, your number is (202) 748-8001. if you are unsure which of the candidates in the republican field, call us at (202) 748-8002 . you can also send us a text message at (202) 748-8003.

always be sure to include your name and where you live. find us on facebook.com/cspan, where we are already chatting on the topic. we are also on twitter and instagram4. we want you to not just tell us which of the candidates, if any, you support, but why. we will be looking for your calls in a moment on today's question for republicans and independents only. let us start by going to an article in the des moines register, recapping what they call 13 republican presidential candidates several guests at friday night's lincoln dinner. each candidate was given 10 minutes to talk about his or her platform. hes hoe des moines register recapped donald trump's

remarks, he was the final of the candidates to speak. the final speaker of the night joked he was quote going to go quickly as he picked through his administration's record in iowa. we did a lot of things, it is hard to do that quickly trump said. as he took the stage, the crowd rose to its feet with many snapping photos and videos. he highlighted his administration's tariffs on china that directed money to u.s. farmers, reworking of a north american trade deal and his support of ethanol fuel. quote iowa has never had a better friend in the white house , he said to begin his remarks. donald trump was one of 13 republican candidates who spoke at friday night's lincoln dinner. let us look at recent polling

about where these candidates stand going into primary season. this is the clear politics polling average of 2024 gop presidential contestants. polling averages show that trump has 52.4% support, this is a nationwide average. desantis polling at 18.4%. former vice president mike pence 5.2%, nikki haley 3.7%, senator tim scott of south carolina 3% and former governor chris christie at 2.3%. that is the polling averages from real clear politics. as we are talking and getting

your comments about which candidates you support, let us look at more of the video. these are former president trump's opening remarks in iowa, touting his accomplishments as president. [video clip] >> i am here to deliver a simple message, iowa has never had a better friend in the white house and president donald j. trump, we made a lot of big promises to the people of this great state and i kept every single one of those promises. i gave the farmers 28 billion dollars out of tariffs i took from china, no other president took anything from china. got hundreds of billions of dollars, we gave farmers $28 billion and that was the largest amount was given to iowa. the worst trade deal ever made in this country, replaced it with a brand-new -- mexico

canada was the best trade deal ever made, so good that the two nations are trying to renegotiate the deal. do not let them do that. while i never mentioned because of covid or the china virus, i also got china -- this is so important, 50 billion dollars worth of american farm product, they were buying it in a very big way. unlike the establishment globalists, i have been an unwavering warrior for iowa ethanol and i will remain your ethanol champion. ron desantis has aggressively fought against ethanol, which i think would be devastating for iowa. i issued a rule declaring only 15 would be made available year-round and you could we utilize your pumps and oil of

the existing equipment, which is saving hundreds of millions of dollars and dramatically increased the number of fueling pumps where it 15 could be sold across the country. host: that was former president donald trump, his remarks from the lincoln dinner in iowa. he mostly stuck to his prepared remarks as he had 10 minutes to address the crowd. let us listen to another candidate, former congressman will heard. he is considered a longshot candidate, but he was the candidate who took the most direct shots at former president donald trump. he was booed as a result. [video clip] >> i am not talking about winning one election, i am talking about a generation. and the reason donald trump lost the election in 2020 is he

failed to grow the gop brand in areas like women with a college degree in the suburbs, black and brown communities and people under the age of 35. we need leaders who did, like your governor reynolds, who went to places people did not expect. that is how you all turned red. if we -- one of the things we need an elective leaders, for them to tell the truth, even if it is unpopular. donald trump is not running for president to make america great again. donald trump is not running for president to represent the people that voted for him in 2016 and 2020. donald trump is running to stay

out of prison, and if we elect -- i know. i know. listen. i know the truth. the truth is hard. but if we elect donald trump, we are willingly giving joe biden for more years in the white house and america cannot handle that. host: what you saw just now wasn't years of former republican congressman will heard from texas after he took direct shots at former president trump during friday night's lincoln dinner. we are going to go to the phone lines, because our question is for you at home, republicans and independents only, who is your candidate for the 2024 presidential election and why? if you are unsure, what are you looking for as you look to make your decision?

if you support donald trump, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. if you have another candidate in mind, call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are unsure, call us at (202) 748-8002. we are going to start off with paul in south carolina, it says that you are unsure. tell us what you are looking for in a candidate. caller: good morning. i watched the lincoln dinner, all of the candidates. i thought there were some great candidates there. i am looking for anybody but trump. i am in independent voter, he will not be elected president again, in my opinion. the republicans need to look for somebody else. obviously, that is probably not going to happen.

i was really impressed with nikki haley from my state and tim scott, i thought they did a great job. congratulations to will heard for saying what he did, which is true in my opinion. larry elder, i thought he was very interesting, his story. host: you say you are not for trump, is it because you do not think he can win, or do not want trump to be president for your own reasoning? caller: both. i do not want him to win, i do not like him. he could care less about the people out there. he is a narcissist and a criminal. whether they are going after him fairly or not, i do not know. probably not. he is just not a good person and he does not need to be our president.

that is the bottom line with me. host: appreciate your call this morning. we are going to go to guadalupe bay -- guadalupe in texas, you are a trump supporter. caller: good morning. thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk. i am a trump supporter. host: tell us why. caller: save america, bring america back and drain the swamp. host: how solid is that support? is there anyone else who could possibly get your support besides trump? caller: he is the only one i would vote, i voted for the

first time in the second time and i am going to do it for a third fine -- time. host: in wisconsin, you are also a trump supporter. caller: good morning. when you take a look back and realize democrats called for the impeachment of donald trump before he took office, before he became president -- he had not even done anything in they were calling for his impeachment. every single thing they have thrown at him is to prevent him from becoming president, doing his job as president and out getting reelected as president. after three years of president trump, more people were in the workforce than ever before. lax, hispanics, asians and women have their lowest unemployment in history. he has done so much for this

country into three years before covid hit. covid is the one that made things really bad with this government and we know where covid came from, the lab in wuhan. if he gets back in, he will make america great again and that is why i support donald j. trump for president number 47. host: is there any other candidate you could support besides donald trump? caller: well, i like some many of the others, except for chris christie and will heard, because they are not telling the truth. i like nikki haley and tim scott, they are all distant people -- decent people and i hope they get cabinet positions. when you realize covid will not be used as an excuse for joe biden to get 81 million votes without campaigning, donald trump is going to win and that is why democrats and everyone

else are so afraid of him. host: the next caller is courtney in georgia, tell us who is your candidate of choice? caller: donald trump. if you asked me if i had another choice -- thank you for having what you have. [indiscernible] host: we are losing you a little bit, you are going in and out. caller: can you hear me now? host: that is better.

tell us more about your second choice to donald trump, what you have heard from him that makes you consider him another viable option. caller: -- calling to explain i would vote for him, but he is the closest person that seems honest and ready to help america just in the inflection of his voice. host: jesse in florida, you say you are looking at another candidate. who could that be? caller: any republican. any republican other than donald trump. i cannot support a guy who has done the things trump has done. i am a former dod employee and a

former contractor. the stuff at mar-a-lago amazes me that anybody could think that is the right thing to do and anybody could believe he did not do that deliberately. i would not support donald trump -- i will vote for joe biden before i will vote for donald trump. that is a really hard thing for me to say. host: what are some of the other candidates that are starting to appeal to you, or you like what you are hearing from them? caller: well, i like mike pence. i like chris christie, i like nikki haley. i like most of the other -- i still think a lot of them are totally gutless and will not cut out what is an obvious wrong and that is the reason i leaned more

toward -- mike pence actually stopped some of the wrongs, that is one of the reasons i support him. christie is doing everything he can to point out exactly what trump is, will heard did a good job. that meeting in iowa. i am a republican, i am a conservative. i cannot believe most republicans do not believe as i do. i cannot see supporting someone who has done the things donald trump has done. from my fellow republicans, look elsewhere. host: let us go to a zona, candace is on the line. trump supporter. caller: yes, i am. host: why? caller: when he makes a promise, he keeps a promise and he has

done nothing wrong. host: why are you not concerned? as you know, he has been indicted twice, perhaps could be indicted one or two more times. why is that not something you are concerned about? caller: because they are full statements. host: let us go to alex in texas, you say you are not sure. caller: yes, good morning. i would not vote for trump. i love america. host: turn down your tv a little bit, i know you are unsure. what are you looking for as you look to make a decision about

which candidates to support? caller: i am looking for honesty. donald trump is a crook. god bless america. host: naomi is on the line in maryland, who is your candidate of choice? caller: i heard nikki haley speak, i listened to c-span any time i am listening to the radio, i am listening to c-span. thank you for taking my call this morning. speaking out to all americans, as the previous caller correctly identified, no one should be naive enough to believe donald trump has not done any of the

multiple food -- multitude of illegal and unethical things he has. i really have not heard -- the one time i heard nikki haley speak -- sorry to say it was only one time, i heard positive things. if i had to choose a republican, it might be nikki haley. my preference, given that biden has reduced the deficit that trump quadrupled during two years significantly, has shrunken unemployment despite covid, despite the war in ukraine, despite all the things -- terrible things going on on this planet, despite the divisiveness that donald trump created, is pretty remarkable.

now, we have maga republicans controlling congress, so it is much more difficult for biden to do the job he wants to do. host: we are going to leave it there, naomi and others have mentioned nikki haley, the former ambassador, former governor of south carolina. when she spoke in iowa friday night, she called for official competency tests after senate republican leader mitch mcconnell's health scare. let us watch a little bit of her remarks. [video clip] >> let us clawback the unspent covid dollars. instead of 87,000 irs agents, let's go after the hundreds of billions of dollars of covid fraud that exists. cut up the credit cards. republicans and democrats have a spending addiction in d.c.. when it comes to education, do

what kim reynolds did. make sure kids can read by third grade, have complete transparency in the classroom and let parents decide where their kids should go to school. when it comes to the border, we will do what we did in south carolina but take it national, and national verify program. 25,000 border agents on the ground, let them do their job. defund sanctuary cities and instead of catch and release, catch and import. we have the answers, but look at all of those issues and d.c. has not handled any of them. that is why we have to have term limits in d.c. once and for all. if this week did not prove it to you, we have got to have mental competency tests for anyone over the age of 75.

that is not being disrespectful. these are people who are making decisions on our national security, decisions on economic policy. these are not tough tests. you say the word that matches -- tell me forwards that start with the letter a. what town were you born in? how many grandchildren do you have? host: former ambassador nikki haley, former south carolina governor nikki haley speaking friday night at the lincoln dinner in iowa. she is among 13 republican candidates for president who were invited, each of them given about 10 minutes to address the crowd.

our question is for republicans and independents only this morning. if you are a democrat, we will have a similar question for you tomorrow. republicans and democrats, who is your 2024 candidate for president and why? if you support donald trump, call us at (202) 748-8000. if you support any of the other candidates, your number is (202) 748-8001. if you are not sure, call us at (202) 748-8002. send as a text message, (202) 748-8003. next up is shelby in tennessee, who are you supporting? caller: so far, i believe -- i like what nikki haley is saying. we need it much change in the government -- we need so much

change in the government. is someone looking at all the issues -- we have had so much corruption on both sides of the parties that we have lost trust in our government and overspending for so many decades has hurt us. most of us are suffering. we basically have sold ourselves out. we need our companies back, we are very capable. our pharmacies that manufacture our medications, our drugs. we are scared of what is coming across other countries for medications we depend on. we need somebody new, may be a change. let's give a woman a chance. we are strong.

host: appreciate your call. we are now going to north carolina, you are a trump supporter. caller: yes i am. host: tell us why. caller: donald trump done nothing more for this country than some of the other candidates are even trying to do. host: is there any chance you would support any of the other candidates, or is it trump and none other? caller: no i will not. host: appreciate your call. next is joe in ohio, it says you are not sure yet. caller: yes, i am not sure. i am not a never trump, but i am because i feel i have had him in

office once before, he had his whole family involved -- hello? host: i am listening. caller: he had his whole family involved with the government and i feel they are just stealing from us, because they are using the government to get whatever they want from other countries, like china. i feel trump has had too much involvement with putin, which i do not understand why these trump people cannot see how much he has talked -- how he tried to hide his meeting with putin. he would not let anybody in. i do not see how they don't see that the way he talked with the head of north korea said he wishes he was like him, people would have to bow to him. i cannot see how they do not see

that. is there something i am missing? host: i know you are unsure, which of the candidates are starting to get a little bit of your attention, or are you interested in hearing more from? caller: the closest one right now at this time is going to be chris christie. i have looked at pence, but i feel that if somebody is against him so much, why would he stay there being his vice president after what he did? i do not see how people cannot see that. that is the thing. pence is coming out and telling everyone that trump -- the things that trump did. he is pointing out the wrong things he did and that is the only reason i have to go for pence. the rest of the candidates, they are avoiding the situation trump is in right now. they will not answer questions

about it, they always say we have to wait and see. we already seen what he did january 6, when then people tried to take over congress or whatever it was. at least christie is telling you what is going to happen. the next time he gets in there, they probably will go in and we will probably get a coup or something going on. host: we are going to leave it there. next is lee county, florida. you are also unsure. caller: i am actually not unsure about one thing, that is i would never want trump back in there. the lies he tells and the people that believe him, it is unfathomable.

heard, what he said last night is exactly true. what chris christie has been saying all this time is true. for the people that are not trump and cannot understand it, it is just beyond me. host: appreciate that call. let us hear from giselle in massachusetts. who is your candidate of choice? caller: i actually have something more of a list, if you do not mind me limiting it to just the republicans in this case. nikki haley, for experience. another for his ideas and conviction. there are two more that are not on the list, but kind of fit. chris christie and governor desantis, i would list a couple more but i think their

independence now and you are limiting it to republicans. host: can you tell us more about christie and desantis? caller: there was an article recently, he was pointing out several things about specifically hunter biden and his father, joe biden. i am quite appreciative of the information he laid out in that specific -- it was an article based on an interview. getting the information in and being able to look up more background on it, i found it really helpful he had brought that up. that is part of why i am considering him, but he is not entirely on the list because i do not know too much else about him. as for governor desantis, the

ideas he is bringing out that have a more conservative, traditional bend for citizens of the united states i tend to agree with. that is why i have him not quite on the list, but fitting. host: let us go to tennessee now and hear from bill, you are a trump supporter. caller: yes. trump all the way. you have had a couple undercover democrats call in, just fashion trump. you know they are democrats. biden is more crooked than trump ever was. i do not know why the democrats do not see heck, they are protecting him just like the news media are protecting him. in the republican would be great besides christie and there are a couple others that are no good. but they are all better than

what the democrats have. if i was a democrat, -- you guys do not give them the chance to come on and say anything, nobody is letting him but fox. you have undercover people calling in, they just have to bash on trump. but the country was better off when trump was president. we need some fecund registration this missile. -- trump back in there to straighten this mess out. host: before we go to the next caller, we have invited robert kennedy junior to come on the air, we are waiting for him to accept the invitation for those who want to hear from robert f. kennedy, jr.. chesterfield, virginia, who is your candidate of choice? caller: i think that chris

christie is one of the most truthful ones running on the republican side. the rest of them seem to still be backing trump in a lot of ways. hutchinson, i wish he would do better. joe manchin, i'd be willing to vote for him. but the situation with trump is crazy. you can tell they are not educated. i hope a decent republican gets up there soon. if not i hope a patriotic citizen sends donald trump home to jesus. host: we are moving onto ron in maryland, you said you are unsure. caller: good morning.

i am unsure, but i agree. i think a few democrats have called in. anyways, i am unsure but i will tell you i think the trump party is splintered. a couple of calls ago, the gentleman said under the trump administration, the economy and everything was better, that is not true. i think we need to do something unorthodox. i would support liz cheney or romney, if they were to run. but if we continue to do the same old same old, i can guarantee that biden will win again and our country will not be in a good situation. host: appreciate that. richard is next in california. tell us why trump is your support. that has your support. caller: living in california, by

the time we vote, the candidates probably already chosen. i think trump is probably going to be the one that ends up as the republican nominee and there is nobody like trump. he is a fighter, a leader. what he has exposed is how advanced the marxists are in controlling our government and the deep state. the media is on the side of the democrats. he exposed all of this when he was running in 2016, he drove everybody nuts and it became all one-sided. all the reporting and everything to make him a villain.

it continues today. he is exposed to two tiers of justice, it is so obvious. it drives me nuts. when biden was a senator, we are told he went to a scif where the classified documents are, now they found them on his property. who is looking into it? the deep state. what do you think they're going to find? in the meantime, look at all the indictments against trump. people need to do some research, get a ledger out and they say trump is corrupt, ok. to get a step further, how is he corrupt? is he a crook? what has he done? host: i think we got your point, we are going to leave it there. the next caller is bradley in texas.

you are the first caller thus far to say you are in with desantis, tell us more about your support for governor desantis. caller: i support desantis because of veteran status, i am a veteran as well. he is catholic and i am a catholic and i believe until someone actually addresses the fact they need to bring back god into the discussion and bring back the constitution. until they start talking about those, ain't nobody going to fix the mess we are in, there is no way. host: there has been a lot a lot of reporting lately that desantis is not growing in the polls, he is actually losing support. what do you think his campaign needs to do to get him better positioned to take on trump? caller: they are out already making adjustments, as far as

getting the message out. it is early, as far as the polls, it is to related to. numbers can be doctored. getting wrapped up around polls right now, it is too early. host: we appreciate your call this morning. let us go now to some of the remarks from florida governor ron desantis. his remarks on education from the lincoln dinner friday night. [video clip] >> we are going to ensure that parents in this country have the fundamental right to direct the upbringing and well-being of their kids. schools and systems are important, but they do not supersede the rights of parents. we want education in this country, not indoctrination. we got it done in florida and we need to get it done nationally.

i got kamala harris coming down to florida, trying to create a phony narrative because she understands florida has stood up to the left agenda. we have beat the left agenda in the state of florida, so she thinks she can come down and lie about what we're doing in the state of florida. i am not budging, we are going to fight back and we are not letting them take over our schools any longer. we are going to get it right as a nation. host: that was former florida governor ron desantis speaking at friday night's lincoln dinner, he was among the 13 republican presidential candidates to do so. we are talking to republicans and independents only this morning, we want to know who is your candidate for 2024? trump, call us at (202) 748-8000 . if you support any of the other candidates, (202) 748-8001.

if you are unsure, call us at (202) 748-8002. before we go back to the phone lines, i want to read some of the responses we are receiving on facebook. christopher writes christie, he and those were all of trump's bodies are buried. cindy says trump knows how to handle evil dictators who take advantage of us, trump protects america from our adversaries. he will secure our border and make us energy dominant, trump 2024. as a research answer is a primary choice, others from existing candidates, haley is the most logical choice. age, experience and leadership position, sensibility, truthfulness and smart. phil adams writes trump, let us

finish what he started after we start over. our question for you is, who do you support in 2024? republicans and independent reviewers only, mike in hollywood, florida. you say trump. caller: yes. only until he can hang on until everything is -- filtered out. then we are going to go on from there. i think trump has had the greatest foreign activity in a president could do without being evil to them. he has basically laid out the chess table, he has moved all of

his ponds into place and i believe he will come out of this and he will be the front runner, as he is right now. he will come out of this. for every other runner in the republican or constitutional republic, good luck. host: next up is roger calling from south bend, indiana. you say you are not sure. caller: i am sure i will not be voting for donald trump or ron desantis, ever. outside of that, any republican candidate is not acknowledging the hard truth that comes with national security and the fact that trump is probably the greatest risk to that in terms

of a candidate. somebody i do not think has any credibility on stage, in my opinion. will heard, i come from a military background. got experience on the education side. he is speaking a lot of truth to some of the bigger issues that i see and ron desantis, compared to other democracies, we are struggling in terms of education. getting involved in k-12 education in a way -- will do nothing but disadvantage our country in the long run. host: let us go to carol, you are not sure. caller: i am not sure. i am not sure i'm going to vote for trump.

there are a couple of candidates i am thinking about seriously, that is nikki haley and tim scott. to me, they are moderate and not extreme. more honest. tim scott seems like a real goodhearted, sincere person and nikki haley has a lot of experience. there is too much drama and crisis and everything with trump , there is too much background of him to his disadvantage. i know he has a lot of followers, but as far as a world leader and president -- if you were female, they would call him a drama queen. you get tired of it, the media gives him too much attention. he is one way or another always on the air, you get sick and tired of him.

his family and his issues, his court hearings and everything else. i cannot continue with that. i will say that if the republicans do not become more moderate in their views about abortion and gun control, they are going to lose the election over that. republicans are a little bit -- just as democrats are too far left, republicans are too far right. that is why nikki haley and tim scott, they seem to take a more moderate in to see both sides of the issue and are more prone to do problem-solving to satisfy both sides. thank you. host: appreciate your call. from lexington, kentucky, you are a trump supporter. caller: yes, i am.

one of the reasons i am a trump supporter as i do not have to wonder what he is thinking. host: what do you mean by that? he says it, you do not have to guess? caller: right. you do not have to guess, you do not have to -- it seems like when it comes to biden, he does not know what he is talking about half the time. you have to guess, what is he really trying to say. i am actually independent. in 2016, i used to hate trump. but as time went on, my viewpoints changed dramatically and i do not have to worry about what is on his mind.

thank you for listening to my opinion. host: john is the next caller in ohio, who do you support in 2024? caller: my first name is john, john henry, i go by henry. i support in the presidential election not the republican party, candidate is most likely mcdonald. the greatest showman does not hail from the circus museum, he hails from florida. i do not know why the constitution has gone. i do not know why people are embracing dictatorship. donald trump has embraced his

best buddy, putin, who is hiding and attacking the world and democracy. host: who do you support, or which candidates have your interest? caller: unfortunately, the lesser of the two evils -- not people, i am not calling her president people. i will be voting for joe biden because he believes in the constitution of the united states. host: appreciate your call. mary in illinois, you say you are unsure. caller: yes, i am unsure. i did vote for trump in the last action -- last election. but this time, even though i feel he may be the front runner on the republican side, i really love tim scott. i would love to meet him personally sometime and have

just a cup of coffee with him. he seems like someone i could relate to, he seems honest. he has grown up in this country and even though i am white, he is black, i do feel he has the values that make america great. he comes from a family, a wholesome upbringing. he has his head on straight and i like that he speaks from one side of his mouth and speaks from his heart. i do not like a candidate who speaks from two sides of their mouth. in other words, a forked tongue. they say one thing yet do something else. he seems to have his head on straight, his heart on straight and his american values on straight. right now, i think he would be my candidate.

if not for president, i would love to see him as a vice president. in that case, that is why am a little unsure about where exactly i'd place him in government. but i think he could have a big following and i wish more people would pay attention to him. the other candidate i like is nikki haley, she is a woman, she has a lot of determination and a lot of guts. she gets out there and says what she thinks and you cannot push her around, and i like that in a candidate. they know where they are going and they have their head on straight. thank you. host: mary mentioned senator tim scott from south carolina, we have had a few other people mention him as well. i want to go back to the des

moines register article that recaps the speeches from friday night. here is how they describe tim scott's remarks. he was senator tim scott of south carolina focused on his history, describing his upbringing with his parents and the lessons they taught him. his grandfather taught him lessons, to kneel to the father in prayer and stand for the flag in respect. he said son, you can be bitter or get better, but you cannot be both. these were valuable lessons. scott said he also learned his values from his mother, who worked long hours as a nurse's aide. she taught me there is dignity in all work and if you are able-bodied in america, you work. if you take out a loan, you pay it back. if you commit a violent crime, you go to jail.

if god made you a man, you play sports against men. that is the recap of tim scott's remarks. we also received a text message from florida. definitely for trump. he was the best president we have ever had and the only candidate who can clean up our corrupt government and bring back our great country. we have a little more time to hear more from you, republicans and independents only, about which candidate you are supporting ahead of the 2024 election. marie in tennessee is up next. caller: i have voted for trump every time he has been up there. he may have problems, but that is human.

trump gets up there and tells the truth about the american economy. he helps middle-class workers, he hopes schools, he takes freedom of speech to 100%. speak up for your freedom and your rights, you have got to stand for christian values, you have got to stand for our children. get the communists out of washington, d.c.. they need term limits. there are too many people up there that have constantly made a living by using our tax money. i'm going to tell you this. i feel like if they start using tax money for the american people, not for people overseas, the american people -- i believe trump will be the one to stand up for our rights.

i voted ever since i was 18 years old, i voted democrat. when trump got in there after obama, he tried to clean up a lot of stuff going on. i do not like anybody that would speak against america, tries to change our american way of leaving and christian rights. i will vote for trump and campaign for trump. i believe trump will win a landslide if you will get up there and keep people off his back trying to bring lies and things. host: we are going to leave it there. a couple more text messages i want to read off that we have received, terry in florida rights i would not vote for trump nor biden, because i think

they are both criminals. the proof is there, but the news will not bring it out. i want to see a scott/haley ticket. in virginia says as an independent, i will support any republican other than trump or desantis. one more, robert in roanoke rights all candidates are far better than any democrat, especially biden. but we need a president with a spine and who can fight, that means trump. let us go back to the phone lines, mike in new jersey. caller: good morning. believe it or not, i am sticking with mr. biden. i just cannot see voting for trump, with all the indictments coming down or to come, all of the false promises he made.

every other week, there was infrastructure week, he promised to get rid of obamacare. he never did anything about it, he said he had a better plan. i could go on and on. it is crazy. he has pulled the wool over all of these republican voters eyes. for them to say there is no evidence of him doing anything wrong is absolutely ludicrous. there is more than enough evidence, and then some. host: i'm going to stop you there, we will talk more about the democrats on the ballot in tomorrow's show. dave in south carolina, you are not sure. caller: i am not. i like that kristi and heard spoke against donald. i've been listening to the donald since the 1980's, i will

tell you what. how anybody in their right mind can believe a habitual liar, and for christian people, that guy is the most unchristian person never met my life. i do not know, i really don't. i would hate to go with a democrat. but if it is donald again, i have no choice. i am a veteran, and tell you what. the things he said about vets, how they were suckers and we were cola bowl, i cannot get around that. host: are there any other republican candidates you would like to see win the primary? caller: like i said, kristi end -- christie and heard --a lot of your callers congratulated nikki haley, nikki haley used to be the governor of my state and she

cut money to medicaid to the point that thousands of south carolinians were thrown off of medicaid. we will never know how many died from it, but she did it because she did not want money from barack obama. i just cannot fathom the people that follow after this character trump. i do not know. i am shocked at my republican party, who used to be so centered and fiscally responsible to turn around and back people like this. i do not get it. host: we will leave it there. tomorrow, we will have a similar conversation about democratic candidates. on washington journal, frank luntz will be discussing

campaign 2024 and the week in politics. then next avi loeb discusses the hearing on unidentified aerial phenomena. ♪ >> a year before arkansas's little rock central high school was desegregated, 10 black students enrolled by court mandate. tonight on q and a, rachel louise martin talks about the experiences of the students who

desegregated the first school in the south following brown v. board of education. >> a black woman walking by is pushed down. another woman has a bottle thrown at her. some kids try to wrap up black teenagers who had nothing to do with the desegregation, and that night white segregationist protesters take over the courthouse square, hosting a number of nighttime rallies. there are many more people by the next morning outside the school, and it is a lot more contentious. >> rachel louise martyn with her book "the most tolerant little town," on c-span's u.n. day --

c-span's q healthy democracyand a. >> a does not just look like this. where citizens are informed, our democracy thrives. c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word, from our nations capital to wherever you are. because the opinion that matters the most is your own. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. we are joined by frank luntz. he is an author and communications strategist. we will be discussing campaign 2024 with him. good morning. guest: it is great to be here.

host: thank you for joining us. tell us, what is your role in republican politics right now? are you working for trump or any of the other major candidates? guest: if you saw the new york times editorial, if you have seen any of the interviews, you would know the answer is no to the first question. my job is to project what is going to happen, and to explain what is happening. i have been spending my time doing focus groups and interviews across the country. there was a time when i would visit 35 states and a single year, asking questions about why people vote the way they do, why they think the way they do. c-span serves an enormous purpose giving voters a voice. i think it is the number one reason why donald trump was elected in 2016.

people thought they had no voice. they thought they were forgotten, ignored, or betrayed, and it led to this level of anger and a need to shout out to be heard. w neede to do more in american politics to invite people in. host: i definitely want to get to a lot of those teams. trump has been indicted twice. there is a chance he could be indicted again by the department of justice looking into january 6. there is also chance for an indictment in the fulton county grand jury special investigation as well into the 2020 election. it doesn't seem to be making much of an impact among republican voters. why is that, i do you think that could be different? could the indictments have a

different impact in the general election among independent and swing voters? guest: that is precisely the analysis we see right now. republicans think that donald trump is a victim. they think he is being persecuted, and every time they issue an indictment or come close to issuing an indictment, there is a 4 or 5 day. -- 4 or 5 day period where donald trump controls the airwaves. in each of these indictments he has had, numbers have gone up, support has gone up, the intensity of his support has gone up. we are seeing the same thing right now. it is unheard of. what we thought in 2016 could not happen happened.

there are so many things that happen now -- no one anticipated january 6. nobody anticipated that a president would not accept the fact that he lost, which will inflame your callers i'm sure, but he did. no one would have thought that a president could be indicted multiple times, for multiple crimes, and his numbers still go up. if the primary was held the day, donald trump is the nominee. in some of these cases -- some of these cases will take place during the primary. sum have been put off until may 2024, meaning that republicans will be voting without having heard the case, which should frighten them. it comes to a simon and garfunkel song -- "a man here is

what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." it is from the song "the boxer." host: it is almost time for us to open up the phone lines. frank luntz is not going to mince words. you can start calling in now with your questions. don't yell. bu you can share your thoughts about the 2024 election. democrats, your number is (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. you can also send us a text message, (202) 748-8003. we will get to some of those calls in just a moment. this is karl rove -- he wrote an

bed on donald trump's effect on the -- an op-ed on donald trump's effect on the republican primary. he wrote "mr. trump's tactics are complicated things. he claims the primary is already over, but if true his should be working to unify the party. instead, the fmer president is attacking his opponents and their supports, calling kim reynolds on greful for remaining publicly neual in her state caucus is stupid. so is calling supporters of his opponents vultures. such over-the-top rhetoric gives his campaigna crazed tone

and will cost mr. trump support among republicans." that is republican operative karl rove. people are saying if trump is the front runner, why is he not unifying republicans? he continues to attacked his perceived enemies, his opponents. do you think trump can be a unifier, and is the gop primary already over or is there a chance for some of these candidates? guest: i'm old. i remember when ronald reagan, the great ronald reagan, said there is an 11th commandment, thou shall not attack other republicans. there was decency back then. there was civility. ronald reagan was a great president. people from the left and right acknowledge the impact that he had, and now this word rino,

republican in name only -- who is to say who is republican? you supported democracy -- ukraine is a democracy. it is a democracy, and yet donald trump attacks those who support ukraine. we were supportive of immigrants. if you play by the rules, you are welcome to come here illegally. now there were's hostility towards immigration because of the policies of donald trump. he made some promises that republicans so strongly support. build the wall, 47 miles of that wall were built. he promised to revoke obamacare. he promised to cut wasteful

washington spending. the debt went up higher under donald trump than any other president. these are questions that one asks. it is so important that we seek some common ground, decency, civility, as we learn how to talk to each other again. our children are seeing horrible examples of politicians yelling at each other. we can disagree without being disagreeable. , dignity respect are not just terminology. it israel. -- it is real. i will tell you about the 3 trends i think are so scary right now. donald trump, a lot of people support you, but you may lose the general election if you continue to alienate so many people will buy your words, rhetoric, and the issues, and how you deliver them. host: i want to go to the phone

lines because we have some calls lined up. gabriel is calling from carolina on the republican line. what is your question or comment, gabriel? caller: thanks so much. thank you for coming on c-span. i want to go back. the first part is focused on how the media in particular fox news -- when i first started watching you years ago, i would say 2010 right when i came back from afghanistan, there were a lot of instances where you were -- i was becoming active, understanding fox news. this was the beck show, the o'reilly factor. there was a transition point, probably around the tea party time where all of the rhetoric had put us on this project re

-- this trajectory that has landed us where we are. it is on both sides. what do you think your contribution was to that destabilization? did you help it? did you heard it? what in hindsight could you have done differently to change the course that fox news an msnbc -- you are on c-span. i don't know what the guest next you believes. that is the beauty of it. brian lamb has that built into the model. it is not sensational. it is real, it is fact driven. host:, you hav -- gabriel, thinks for your question. guest: that is an example of perfection. gabriel, that is exactly what we should be doing. not only do you have the right,

but the responsibility to challenge and i love that. i regret that i did not speak up earlier. i have been doing editorials i, have been doing appearances like this. it may interest you that i was on msnbc yesterday. i might be on fox tomorrow. i do that a -- do them all. the truth knows no partisanship. it is the truth. whether you have trust in your institutions, it is important you have a place to go where you can believe the information that is being given to you. er -- we have lost that faith, we have lost that belief in the media, in everything except the military. i wish i had focused on defending the truth, rather than just holding these focus groups

and giving people their voice, which is important. i wish i had channeled that voice into respecting and revering the truth. host: let's take another caller now, bruce in memphis, tennessee democratic line. caller: mr. frank, i really appreciate you being on today. i wanted to ask you some real, clear, simple questions. some questions are very vague. i'm watching this person, donald, tried to become president, which he was and he did what he did. however, the question has not been talked about. if this guy gets convicted, how was he going to be able to vote? how was he going to be able to carry a gun?

why are people dictating a narrative that is an allusion as opposed to what is real in the constitution in this country. people talk about two tiers -- i wonder what the opposite of the tier is that they are creating themselves? these real simple questions are not being brought out on the table, and all of these hyperboles of how we haven't met this constitutional situation yet. we are in and now. this guy seems like richie rich and going through a process where no one wants to say what is true. can you help me with that? guest: if i were a teacher i would say that i understood your

question immediately. i will be specific and answer quickly, but i teach how to ask questions, and i got your point. here is the problem -- i don't know. we have never had a presidential candidate indicted. we had a president run from jail in 1920, but we have never had a president multiply indicted. i will tell you this -- people asked why do individuals support donald trump? they feel he listens to them, they feel he fights for them. you may not like the way he fights, you may disagree with his point of view, but he does so in a way where they feel their voices being heard, and that is one of the problems in america that needs to be addressed. people like you do not feel hurt, do not feel respected --

feel heard, do not feel respected, do not feel dignified in your point of view. i question whether he can put together a majority of america twin in -- america to win in 2024. what he says is what people want to hear. host: jack is calling on the independent line. caller: hello. thank you very much. frank, i'm glad you're on today. i'm very confused about the support for trump. it seems like a bizarre-o world. i think people hopefully will wake up to the fact that he is a, corrupt person and no matter what party you are from, you

cannot support such corruptness. we have to get away from corrupt people, no matter what party they are in. they have to see the corruption and say, no that is not america. guest: by the way, i heard you say the word corruption 9 times in one minute. it is the number one complaint people have about the system right now, and they use that word. the corruption in politics, and they think it destroys confidence in the country. there is the challenge -- we were just talking about this before we went on air. there is a beautiful lyric paul simon wrote from "the boxer." "a man here is what he wants to

hear and disregards the rest." if you get your news from cnn, i don't know how to characterize that because it has changed a little bit, but we hear what we want to hear. we ignore what we want to ignore. it is so hard now because so many are getting news from online. that is one of the things i wanted to raise with you. 64% of 18 to 29-year-olds know someone personally who has been harmed physically or mentally by social media. half of all moms know a child who has been harmed in some way by social media. this is the problem. it undercuts our acceptance of the truth, our knowledge of the truth, our ability to relate to each other.

parents are so -- children cannot have these conversations anymore because of social media, and they are getting addicted to it. moms tell me how their kids go under the blankets, 1:00 a.m., 2:00 a.m. on their phones. you try and take the phone away from the child, the child throws the phone at them and storms off. they cannot communicate in the household. the truth matters. not my truth, not your truth frankly, the truth, and we are losing it. host: we are talking with author and communications strategist frank luntz. we want to hear your questions or comment for him about the

upcoming presidential election. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002 went. to bring up a question i -- i to bring up a question we received on twitter. they ask what you think about the dustup between ron desantis and all of the black republicans in congress. an article in politico says "desantis rocked by black republican revolt over slavery comments." "the bitter fight between ron desantis and representative byron donalds over a line about slavery in the state's revised

african-american history standards is infuriating several prominent lack conservatives -- black conservatives. they fear it will play into democrat picturing of republicans as whitewashing american history. what do you make about this dustup? guest: he made a mistake and you won't acknowledge it. he thinks that by acknowledging it, it hurts his campaign. he made a mistake by beating up on disney. the issue with this said -- with desantis, and he said i'm too hard on him, so i need to be careful because i want to be fair. what he said is that it further the division between the white and black population. what he said about disney

further these culture wars instead of trying to solve it. you don't weaponize government. why should they be doing it? there is a reason desantis's numbers have fallen so far. the guy has imploded. to be clear biden imploded in iowa and new hampshire, and he's president. acknowledge it so you can move on. he won't acknowledge it.h e claims it was some bureaucrat -- he claims it was some bureaucrat who did it, that he was not trying to make a point. byron donalds is a very good representative, and supported desantis up until that comment. listen to the criticism, accepte so you can move o.

host: byron donalds did support desantis for governor, but he is a trump supporter for 2024. let's go to stanford, texas now. daniel on the republican line, what is your question or comment? caller: before trump was even elected, they tried to impeach him. 4 years after he was elected, they tried to impeach him. whenever hillary ran against trump and lost, she spent $30 million o her campaignn and when she lost, turned around and sold $30 million worth of plutonium to north korea. that would be considered treason. nobody said nothing about

nothing. they have been hammering trump forever. guest: i agree with you. the democrats don't want to listen to him, they don't want to respect him. the border security that trump proposed, the public supports it. trump is less about the policies , and more about the person how he communicates it, how he treats people. they tried to impeach him, and that feeds into this victimhood. maybe there is something there. the problem is we are weaponizing everything. each thing justifies another attack, another condemnation, another reason to write people off and write them out of the picture, not listen to them.

it may surprise you based on my comments up to this point, but i do think that donald trump is mistreated. he mistreated so many other people. the one point i would make is remember the line about hillary clinton, how he made fun of her for wiping her server, and what do we hear about donald trump at mar-a-lago when they were subpoenaing his video, that he tried to wipe those servers. if people figure out how to put that together, and they have not so far, trump will have a problem with that. host: our next caller is from indiana. caller: we need to be clear on what our duties are as citizens. we need to vote for governing, political parties that advance our constitutional aspirations. there is only one party, the

democratic party, that biden is doing broad-based -- you can see the results. my concern with your guest is he paints a false equivalency between democrats and republicans. republicans are a lost cause. they should no longer be a political party. host: howard, we are going to let frank respond. guest: you have just indicted every republican. there are republicans who stood up to donald trump. s there are republican who voted for his impeachment. there are republicans who voted with joe on his legislation and use a republicans -- and you

say republicans are a lost cause? that is why i make the equivalency. it is happening on all sides. i will give you the third pillar now. my favorite question i have been asked over the last 2 years is "are you invested in america, and is america invested in you?" only 31% feel their question -- their country has invested in them. they are giving, they are committed, they do the pledge of allegiance, they play by the rules, they educate their kids, they speak up on shows like

c-span, but they feel like the country is not listening to them, and it is happening on both sides of the aisle. we cannot have that investment gap, because we lose our democracy, we lose our economic freedom, and we lose something special if we do. host: up next, we have mary. mary is in cambria, california, independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to say that i like representative of a swami. i like his ideas about revamping the department of education, and i think he is articulate, and of course he is young. i could really see him on this stage with justin trudeau or rishi sunak and macron and i

think you would represent our country in a wonderful way. i don't know all of his ideas yet, because i have not really heard everything, his views on everything, but so far i really like him and i like his energy. guest: people are paying attention to him. he is attracting a lot of attention. he has attracted significant sums of money from across the country, which is why he qualified for the debates. there are three candidates were moving, and he is one of the three. he is still not really breaking through, but i look forward to that first debate, because i think he may. second candidate in iowa is tim scott. you heard from him a lot in the hour before i came on. he has that sense of decency, a faith-based message that iowa

voters really appreciate. in new hampshire chris christie is already in double-digits. he did relatively well years ago in the state and he seems to be connecting with voters. those of the three candidates i'm watching at this point. host: so i want to pause. we have been talking mostly about the republican candidates, but have you paid much attention on the democratic side? there are some democratic challengers, but it is not perceived as competitive of a primary as on the republican side. do think there is any possibility that joe biden is not the nominee in 2024. guest: he will be the nominee if he chooses to run. it is. possible he changes his mindh -- it is possible

he changes his mind. i am not convinced that he will stay in the race. if he stays in the race, he is definitely the nominee. i i'm watching robert kennedy junior. i know him a little bit. i have been on the debate stage with him before, and he destroyed me. it was a tough audience, a conversation on the environment, i held a different viewpoint at that time. his position on vaccines i find awful, and i do so because i know how life saving vaccines are and i am so afraid that moms will not get their kids vaccinated because they will listen to his argument. that's it, he is the most -- that said he is the most knowledgeable person on the environment, he is articulate about censorship and the right of every voice to be heard. i i'm torn about it, and as a

person i enjoy talking to him. he will get more votes than people realize. in new hampshire, i could see him climbing into the 30% to 40% range, which is a significant amount for a challenger in a primary where the incumbent is running. he is not getting the nomination. he is not going to be on the ticket, but his voice is being heard. host: let's hear from amy now in tuscaloosa, obama, republican line -- tuscaloosa, alabama, republican line. caller: my comments are about trump. basically, he said he would drain this. --drain the swamp. he drained the water from the swamp and revealed the swamp creatures. guest: can i ask you a question? caller: under donald trump, when

-- draining the swamp is preventing wasteful washington spending, is it not? and yet in 2 of those 4 years there was a republican congress. how do you drain the swamp if you spend more and more of your tax dollars? caller: you didn't have complete cooperation with the things he wanted. guest: his budgets that he put forward increased spending. let me correct myself. you are correct. donald trump wanted to spend more. he wanted to give away more. it was the republicans in congress who prevented him from doing it. host: amy, any other response? caller: yeah.

now, i know he is not completely incorrect, but he does try to fight against corruption. there were times when he wanted to spend more than would be acceptable by the republicans. there were those times, but in general he wanted to eliminate corruption, even though he himself is not completely incorrupt. guest: he promised in every campaign rally to build the wall. how many miles did he actually build? i emphasize with the republicans controlling congress, how much money did he get from mexico? caller: i didn't address those issues. guest: can i ask you one more question? he promised to abolish obamacare. did he?

caller: no, but he didn't have any help either. guest: but he had a republican congress for 2 years. caller: but they still didn't help him i his quest for thatn. guest: a great leader convinces people to move with him. i appreciate your point of view. he did cut taxes significantly but on these other issues he just didn't do it. host: we appreciate your call. let's go to sarah in ashburn, virginia. caller: good morning. i grew up in the shadow of capitol hill. we would go up when you could go and watch the debates on civil rights. i am amazed at the people we have in congress now. it is like we are going through

the mccarthy era, the nixon era, and now the trump era all in one. even newt could work with clinton, but this new congress under mccarthy is afraid to make a move without getting approval from the base, trump space. you do not -- trump's base. you do not have professional politicians. mccain could work with anybody. guest: can i ask you a question also? caller: please. guest: the speaker of the house sat down with the president of the united states, and it looked like there was no common ground between them. when they sat down and discussed, we got a debt ceiling agreement. all of the republicans aren't happy. the freedom caucus hates the agreement. on the left of the squad hates the agreement, but speaker

mccarthy and president biden sat down together and got a debt ceiling agreement that everyone can live with, then kevin was able to get it passed through the house. chuck schumer joined him in the senate. isn't that a significant example of being able to work together? it has been the most important piece of legislation this year because our nation's economy was in jeopardy, and the two of them were able to get it done. caller: can i speak to something? now they have left washington, they will only have 12 days when they come back to pass a budget. i don't know if they will get through those programs. i think it will be a continuing resolution, because i think the marjorie taylor greenes are not going to support kevin mccarthy. they are going ahead and working again with the other side or

with biden. i think that is the way it is going to be. guest: but if they did it once before -- you are actually very sophisticated, and you are correct. i believe you are accurate that they are not going to get it done, and they will need a continuing resolution. , congratulations wherever you are getting your news it is accurate, but in return can you acknowledge that the speaker and the president did something significant together, that bipartisanship is actually able to work? host: she's gone, but i'm sure she will continue to think about the things you have raised in your conversation with her. let's bring up another caller, peter in hollywood, florida. caller: my name is peter. host: yes, go ahead. caller: hi. i will be voting for donald trump.

biden, i have to be honest with you, i am not very happy. everything is more expensive. i can't hear you. host: we can hear you. go ahead, peter. caller: everything is more expensive with joe biden. i am going to vote for donald trump. gas runs the economy. gas runs the stores. when you go shopping at publix it is very expensive. i am going to vote for donald trump. i know donald trump. he cannot use his mind very well. guest: food prices went up significantly. if you don't like the prices at publix shop at kroger. the inflation that joe biden had said was "transitory" was

significant. people got wage increases. inflation wiped away the value of that. inflation has begun to come down. prices are not going up as fast as they work, so the question for republican -- they were, so the question for republicans is can they run on that in 2024? the number one word people talk of when it comes to economic challenges is an opportunity, its affordability. they cannot afford the thing to live. that will be a challenge for the biden administration to address in the months ahead. , by the way, this is the best callers. they may be mad at me, and they may not -- and i may not be

saying to them what they want to hear, but as far as knowing what is happening, these are the best callers i have had in a while. host: another great color, charlston -- caller, charlston, south carolina, republican line. caller: frank, who did you predict was going to win the 20 16 election? guest: hillary clinton based on the exit polling of that day that had hillary clinton up. he wants to make the point that i'm wrong. back in 2016 the exit polling all had hillary clinton winning. what they had not done is the individual states. they were dead on. the problem for clinton was she didn't have the right states.

she won the popular vote. we do it state-by-state. i will acknowledge that i thought hillary clinton would get more votes than donald trump, and therefore she would get elected. guest: frank, who did you vote for? caller: you know i can't answer that -- caller: frank, who did you vote for? guest: you know i can't answer that. caller: who did you predict wo uld win in 2020. caller: -- guest: biden and i was right. jim, you have a point of view,

and you are unwilling to see the evidence, you are unwilling to examine the facts. i have gone and studied this. here is our problem. the websites that say the election was stolen, it looks professional,i t looks like it is factual. the movie that made the claim that all these ballots were dumped, let me tell you something about 2020. republican voters voted on election day. democratic voters voted early. republican voters don't trust absentee ballots. they don't trust early votes, so when they count the ballots on election day, donald trump one by almost 2-1, that so many people voted early and those votes were for biden that even though the votes that were counted early were trump votes,

biden cut up and he went ahead. we have to change the way votes are counted in this country because it is going to give a false impression that one candidate was winning. donald trump was ahead at 1:00 a.m. because his votes were counted and it took a day or two to count all of the absentee ballots. pennsylvania, it took them four days to count their votes. pennsylvania, get your act together. it was clear that biden was going to win, but he did not look that way on election night so voters like him legitimately think that trump won. they were absentee ballots. they were going to be more democratic, more urban, more biden because democrats vote early and republicans vote on election day. host: let's hear from jasper

now. jasper is calling from chicago on the democratic line. caller: good morning. host: good morning/ caller: i went to thank you so much/ we have been calling like crazy. thank you, frank, for being here this morning. i i'm so happy to hear you. these matters need to be addressed. our democracy as at stake. guest: i agree with that. if you don't believe in the truth, how can you campaign ? how can you govern if the public thinks that you are evil? i am grateful for you saying that. i wish there was not a republican, democrat, and independent line because that plays into it, but, caller, we are failing. i know we are getting towards

the end here. the thing i want to emphasize is we are failing to address the conspiracies. we are feeling the people who work across the aisle, and our democracy is at stake. i i'm concerned that 2024 will be the worst election ever, and i'm concerned that if donald trump gets the nomination, which at this point is more likely than not, he will never accept the election results. we had the same thing in georgia. stacey abrams, you can see i will parallel all of this because i think we all need to hold ourselves accountable, stacey abrams do not accept the election results in georgia for governor, and that created unnecessary tension. up until the last few years, the winner is accepted by the loser the winner is accepted by the loser. the loser takes their support and says "our constitution is

more important than any election." i went to say that clearly to every independent. i wanted to do this. i'm so glad you invited me. i started as a republican. i got 2016 wrong because i looked at the exit polls. i don't get much wrong. democracies last until they don't. the egyptians thought they couldn't be beaten. , the turks the ottoman empire, the great german empire, british, portuguese, french. countries come and go. china had a dynasty. who is to say that america lasts? i am seeing the fishers and

fractures in america. i see it in the education system not just the grandparents, the grandkids are getting the messaging to yell at each other and be abusive to their teachers because they see their parents acting this way towards politics and it is breaking this country. host: we will have to leave it there. thank you so much, frank luntz, thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having me. host: we are going to pause. coming out, harvard astrophysicist avi loeb will be discussing last week's congressional hearing on what we usually call ufo's, but first it is open forum. start going in now and we will get to after the break. democrats, (202) 748-8000.

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mike is our first caller. caller: i have been a republican all of my life. i have seen a shift around me here in florida, but it is not just enough. i am discouraged about being a moderate republican in florida. we are even contemplating moving to another state further north. i know that is drastic because florida is a good state as far as the weather and everything else. the middle is not being heard in so many of the republican, southern states. i think it is going to change. i see it changing. i have seen other things happen in states like kansas where they are voting for candidates who are interested more in the

policies. i don't know why that difference between kansas, which is a red state, and florida, which is a red state. i believe there is going to be a shift, unless the republican party comes back to the middle. that is what i believe. host: i appreciate your call this morning. let's hear from diana now in livingston, new jersey, democratic line. caller: good morning. i am addressing what frank luntz said. he is trying to make false equivalencies. i sympathize with him that he is trying to save his party as well as other former republicans, but doesn't he see that when republican callers call in they don't even believe him. they don't believe the courts, they don't believe their senior leaders, because they have been told -- he brought up the

mail-in votings. they were told mail in votes or fraudulent by their leader. they would vote for a man who said he would change the u.s. constitution. when he mentioned stacey abrams, it is because she saw the dirty tricks the republicans do with gerrymandering like they just did in alabama. they are going. to -- they are going to defy the supreme court. they were ordered to redraw a nap. that is not democracy. that is what is happening in israel. that is why you see so many people in the street there. that man is corrupted there. he is under charges. he wants to change their judicial system and that is what trump is threatening. this is false equivalencies.

"politicians lie" -- not like donald trump and his party. there is a component of january 6 -- there was the protest and insurrection but then there is also the conspiracy scheme where he was trying to overthrow the state. host: diane, i have to stop you right there but we got your point this morning. bill is in idaho, republican line. caller: hi. i agree with that lady. there is a whole lot of corruption in government. i would like to see something happen to our policies on how and when we vote for a president. i don't think the president should be associated with the rest of the governors and

senators and everyone else. it should be one day for a presidential vote. have everybody vote for the president of their choice on that day. mail in votes are totally correct. i don't believe in them unless you are paralyzed. you need to have some kind of deal where you can have somebody pick up and collect the vote for you. who counts the votes? i think this should go back to washington dc, all of them and be counted by all of the supreme court, the justices and all of the people who work for them, and have them count the votes. this should be no reason why, if they are only voting for president that there is a whole complicated mess on counting votes. it should be ascertained directly and within a few hours of when the voting polls close.

host: up is elizabeth in rockdale, texas, independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. what is your comment today? caller: i think we have always been free in this country to express ourselves, and i just think that everyone is doing just that. i'm not thrilled with the negativity. i don't like the outright insults. i think it is demeaning and beneath us, however, i will defend i believe our country will continue to be the greatest country because we allow people free speech. one man, one vote. no one is above the law. that is my belief system. i am proud to be here. host: all right, elizabeth.

let's hear from henry in columbus, georgia, democratic line. caller: good morning, thank you for receiving me. host: absolutely. go ahead. caller: i want to thank the guy you had on. a terrific job. he was a republican at one time, he told the truth. i want to make it known to the evangelical people with trump. i am shamed of them. -- ashamed of them. they follow a corrupt man. they disrespect the kids. you have a blessed day. god bless everybody. host: next up in day city, florida, todd on the republican like. caller: amen to that last caller. he is 100% right. one of the falls of our country, there is a saying that says, a great civilization cannot be

destroyed without until it is destroyed within. we have so many lines. you've got republicans, democrats, rich, poor, black, whites, asians. you've got these different categories. one topic, one commonality, american. if you are born in the united states, you are american. you are not asian, you are not african. you are not more african that i am scottish. i was born in tallahassee, florida. this invasion in the south southern border is creating a total barrier, a language barrier. now, you are going to keep the citizenry being able to communicate within each other. that is going to take our country down. i am offended i have to press one for english in the united states of america. when i went to germany, france,

nobody was speaking english for me. you come to this country, you should learn english. we need to worry about the schools. 31% of black children do not graduate high school. we have got to protect our children. we have got to stop drawing lines and we have to be americans first. god bless you all. god bless america. host: let's hear from ryan calling from phoenix, arizona, independent line. caller: good morning. i just ended to call in -- wanted to call into the show. the last caller, i want what is best for america. this country is so divided. i think the media and politicians are much to blame on that. trump is a divisive candidate. i think we have got trump

because we were sick of the status quo, the same old, same old. the media, the politicians. the population revolted and chose trump. we are deep into the biden administration, which i think has been a complete disaster. there is still this obsession with trump. i think biden is super rough. he has not brought the country together at all. desantis is too far right of trump. i was hoping he would be more reasonable. he seems to be out there. not too many people to look forward to. hopefully, we get through everything. good show, as usual. thanks, guys. host: speaking of donald trump,

last night he had a rally in pennsylvania. he spoke a little bit about the race and particularly, he spoke about whether he would participate in any debates with fellow republican candidates. here is an article from the hill, the headline says trump met with course of -- chorus of nose after asking if he should attend the first gop debate, which is in august. let's look a little bit again at former president trump, his speech last night talking about whether he would participate in that first presidential debate. [video clip] >> sir. will you stand up against the hostile network -- fox --will you stand up against the hostile network? remember the questions i was asked by megyn kelly a long time

ago? she has gotten religion. stand up. listen with 12 guys that have zero,1 ,2, 3. i may have 75, 78, 79. i am going to listen to some guy called ada hutchinson. i call him ada because he is boring. i do not know why he hates me. i won arkansas i aliens like. how the hell did that guy win arkansas? am i going to stand up to those guys with 0%, 3%, maybe 4%, have them ask me hostile questions and if i do not go to the debate, they say their ratings are going to be very bad? if i agreed to do the debates, i get hit by a hostile network but also these guys. they are professional politicians. they are not stupid people.

they happen to be at zero. they say, what about this, what about this? i look at the guy and say, you are at zero asking me these questions. you know, you want to have a smart president. i think if you see me -- even if i do well, i like the debates. i probably won the presidency because of the debates. at a certain point, you say why are we doing these things? we will see what happens i have not made a commitment one way or the other. should i do them or not? wait a minute. wait, wait, wait. take your entertainment. or entertainment, everybody is going to say do it. now, put on your political cap. we have to save our country. we have to win. should i get up there with 10 or 12 hostile people and hostile network and be abused with terrible crisis? already. should we do the debate?

>> no! host: that was former president donald trump last night's rally in pennsylvania. you ask him -- you hear him asking the audience, should he participate in next month's republican primary debate. the answer was a resounding no. we are back in open forum. your chance to weigh in on any political topic. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. over and in maryland on the democratic line, you are up next. caller: good morning. i just wanted to start off a little bit. my concern is, a lot of democrats and republicans do a good job of distracting and dividing people into their camps. meanwhile, we are dealing with people who have been in congress

for a very, very long time. they are doing things that if anyone else did it, would be in big trouble. like, insider trading. you have republicans and democrats who are literally profiting from stocks and sitting on your committee, these are profits from key decisions. if anyone else did it, they would be in big trouble. penalties, it is almost like a slap on the wrist. it is normalized. why aren't we as a society more upset about this? i guess the answer is, we are distracted thinking about all the other little things they distract us with. that is my concern, that we are so distracted and divided that they are robbing us while we are distracted looking over there. thank you for taking my call. host: already. let's go to minerva, ohio. tracy calling on the republican line. caller: hi, hey.

i was calling in response to the lady that called in about donald trump draining the swamp. the answer i wanted to get at that point was, where did donald trump put the spending at in the united states of america? it was in our military, our borders, everything. right now, i agree with a lot of callers here that america is divided and it should not be divided. i think with trump -- i am not sure emma -- sure if i am going to vote for him or not. if he did less talking, he would be perfect. the division in america is with nicholas. the fact parents do not have control over what their children learn is ridiculous. i understand that some of it -- everybody is different. we should be ok with that. when it comes time for the stepping on other people's toes to be different, that is when it needs to stop.

i think the reason trump is so popular is because it is about america. everyone does not understand that, from the immigrants coming in right now trying to change everything -- this is america. we need to have more pride in it and what we do. joe biden has turned this country into a joke. they think he has alzheimer's. he has dementia. what does he have? who was controlling him? i think whether it is donald trump or somebody, we have to have a candidate in there that is going to be for america and for the american people. host: all right, we are going to leave it there. appreciate your call. let's go to the democratic line now. clyde, calling from charlotte, north carolina. caller: yes. i would like to make a comment about the voter fraud. within the last -- there was a survey last few years, there has

been over a billion votes cast. they have only predicted 30 people out of one billion votes, which proves that there really is no voter fraud. republicans are just mad because they losing. voter fraud is probably one of the least committed crimes ever. there is more murders. there are more robberies. there are more rapes. i do not know of a crime committed less than voter fraud, mainly because it is -- the punishment is about 1000 times worse than the crime. so, those people that is claiming voter fraud, they just mad because they are losing. thank you. host: all right.

next up is denise in pittsburgh, california on the independent line. caller: yes. good morning. i would just like to say how trump always says, if he was not ahead, they would not becoming after him, the department of justice, the fbi and everyone else going after him because of all of his crimes. which is a lie, because he jumped into the race early because of that reason. he knew he was a criminal. he knew these things were going to happen. that is why he got into the race before anyone else. that is the only reason why he is ahead right now. when they really see him, when people with any level of intelligence see him for what he is, they will drop him like a hot pancake. he is a crook and should never have been in office and should never be in office again. have a blessed day, everyone. host: let's hear from abraham

now, on the republican line in virginia. caller: yes, thank you very much. you want to talk about that voter fraud. i got a friend who is a democrat. he purchased his grandmother's house a few ears ago. everybody at the grandmother's house, her address. they are black people, ok? in the 2020 election, he got ballots to his house. he filled out all eight ballots, signed them and sent them back in for joe biden. now, that might be a small percentage. but, the fact of the matter is, you have to ask yourself why democrats do not want to clean up the voter fraud and why the democrats always vote early. i know wipe. they love to cheat. these guys, the democrats, will do anything they can to make sure that their candidate wins. you'll get fetterman, dianne

feinstein, biden, all they need is a person to raise a hand. on the republican side, they have to have the best republican candidate that god wrought forward. that is what i do not like. host: all right, abraham. we are going to take a quick break. when we come back, harvard astrophysicist avi loeb is discussing last week's high-profile congressional hearing on what we previously called ufos, but are now described as unidentified analogous phenomenon. we will be right back after the break. ♪ ♪ >> life sunday august sixth on in-depth. best-selling author and historian s sequent twins book tv to talk and take calls about native american history, the

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scan the code on the right to order your copy today or go to c-spanshop.org. it is $29 $.95 plus shipping and handling and every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." we are joined by harvard astrophysicist avi loeb, we will be discussing the recent congressional hearing on unidentified annapolis -- analogous phenomenon. good morning. guest: good morning. host: let's start. you have been on the program before. remind our audience about your view of extraterrestrial life in the universe. do you think it exists, and how did you come to your beliefs? guest: i think it is arrogant of us to think we are believe -- we

are unique and special. we are taught we are the central of the universe. the earth moves around the sun. the only thing left for us to believe is we are the most intelligent civilization to have existed. we know there are tens of billions of stars similar to the sun within the milky way galaxy alone. most of them formed billions of years before the sun. they have a planet the size of the earth, roughly the same separation. so, if billions of dice rolls where you have some chance of making a civilization similar to ours, it is likely there are others out there and they have enough time to send a probe that would arrive to our doorstep because it takes less than one billion years for chemical rockets, the types we use, to traverse the entire galaxy. all we need to do is look around us and go out to our backyard

and check if there is any tennis ball that was thrown by a neighbor, in addition to the rocks we see around us. only over the past decade, we started doing that. there was a meteor found january 2014 by u.s. government satellites. we realized with my student that was actually moving very fast, faster than 95% of all stars, it was not bound to the sun, came from outside and moreover, it had material strength larger than all the space rocks we had seen. we decided -- i lead the next division to find the next meteor last month. we found the materials. we are now studying them. the question is, the fundamental question -- is it easier to learn about space from the bottom of the pacific ocean then it is from washington, d.c.?

host: so, last week, the house oversight committee national security subcommittee held a hearing on this issue, ufos or what we now call you aps --uap 's. what did you think of the hearing? particularly, there was an exchange were one of the folks who was speaking at the time -- we are going to watch a little bit of that exchange -- this is representative nancy mace, a republican from north carolina. she is questioning witnesses david gresh on recovery efforts of the uap's by the u.s. and he is talking about how he cannot publicly discuss if the government has made contact with extraterrestrial crafts. he makes some interesting allegations. let's watch a little bit. [video clip] >> you say the government is in possession of potentially

nonhuman spacecrafts. based on your experience and conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligence, extraterrestrials? >> something i cannot discuss in this setting. >> ok, i cannot ask when you think this occurred. [laughter] if you believe we have crashed crafts stated earlier, do we have the body's a who piloted this craft? >> as i have stated publicly already, biologics came with some of these recoveries. yeah. >> were they human or nonhuman biologics? >> nonhuman. that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program i talked to who are still on the program. >> was their document evidence, video, photos, how would that be determined? >> the specific documentation i would have to talk -- about. host: what are your thoughts

about the hearing overall? in this particular portion, it has got a lot of people saying, hey, does the u.s. government have extraterrestrial remains locked away somewhere? can you break down what are your thoughts? guest: i think the u.s. government is the first organization to notice anything unusual in our backyard, because the day job of the intelligence agency is to monitor the sky and check for ballistic missiles. anything threatening the u.s. in the course of doing so, they might see things unusual. sonograms are focused at the edge of the universe, very far away. if anything flies overhead the telescope, the astronomers ignore it. it is possible that the u.s. government has some information. what is inappropriate is that it is withheld in secrecy. it is very likely to be of

relevance to national security if it came from thousands of light years away. does not care how we split the land on this rock call the earth. just inc. of it as a family living at home in isolation. then, you step out of the home into the backyard and noticed a tennis ball thrown by a neighbor. will you keep it secret and not tell your family members that you have a neighbor? i think it is not smart to do so. if your family knows about the neighbor, they may decide to maintain their privacy by shutting off the curtains or they may decide to engage with the neighbor and figure out the nature of this neighbor. or, one day, the neighbor will knock on your front door. it is much better to know the reality that we live in, not to keep it in secret. this is a scientific matter. we better let scientists figure out what it means. the government has no authority

to keep scientific information about the universe in its hands without letting scientists know about it. there are two possibilities, either they have something or not. if they have, please share it with scientists. i would be delighted to have government figure it out. host: this is harvard astrophysicist avi loeb. we want to get your questions or comments for him on this topic of what we have long described as ufos, but uap's is the current terminology. here are the phone lines to call and talk with avi. it is regional. if you are in the central or eastern time zone, we want you to call us at (202) 748-8000. eastern or central. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, call us at (202) 748-8001. you can still send us a text message at caller:, make sure

you include your name and where you live. we will get to your questions and comments on that topic. in a moment. let's keep going. the has an article. its title says, ufos are a common site. former military official tells congress about this hearing that was held earlier last week. one of the big takeaways from the hearing was improving the process for reporting unidentified aerial phenomenon. how common are these reported sightings? what information is collected, and what happens to that information? guest: right. the two pilots that spoke at the hearing in the house of representatives, it is common.

ryan graves was describing it as a daily occurrence. we have to understand it could be a mixed bag. most of those objects maybe balloons or drones that are mistaken, that are not identified. the question is, is there anything else that is not human made? as the testimony by david gresh is different. he says the u.s. government is in possession of materials of space. that is very different. we are not talking about a report of seeing something unusual, which could be balloons mistaken for something else. he is talking about the u.s. actually having a reverse engineering program and retreatment programs of materials from crash sites of unidentified objects, which is different. then, you can study the materials. you can figure out these are indeed not human made.

what we would like to know is whether these things exist. the good news is that, some representatives asked gresh to have a -- with him so he could give details and locations of those programs. if indeed this is real, the representatives can move along this path and speak to the people involving this program, figure out if it is real. if it is real, we should all know about it. host: another question before we get to the phone lines, because we want to answer reader questions. i want to ask you about the stigma that is associated with the reporting of ufos or unidentified anomalous phenomena . i have an article pulled up, this is a cbs news article.

the headline says, what are uap 's and why do ufos have a new name? again, this is a cbs news article. i want to read a little bit. in the article, it does talk about the stigma associated with one of the reasons why they are not called ufos anymore. it says, ufos still carry an association with a strain of conspiratorial and paranoid thinking that discouraged many pilots from coming forth with their own experiences. bearing a negative impact on their careers or reputations. graves, one of the people who testified at that hearing last week, the other fighter pilot who testified before congress, told lawmakers that "the stigma attached to uap is real and powerful and challenges national security.

it silences commercial pilots who fear professional repercussions, discourages witnesses and is only compounded by recent government claims questioning the credibility of eyewitness testimony." that is a cbs news article. can you talk a little bit about the stigma, and how do you think that affects the number of ufos that are reported? guest: there is a reason for the stigma. a lot of people in the public talked about things that make no sense. people talk about being objected. people talk about events that are not corroborated by any evidence. they basically spoke nonsense. that should not deter us from listening to pilots, military personnel who have had real experiences. in those circumstances, these are reliable people that we trust who defend our nation. we should just get to the bottom of it. there is some risk to the safety

of these pilots if we do not understand what flies high. ok? irrespective of what it is, we should figure it out. it is something real. these are not crazy people. these are military personnel that report things they have seen. we should do a systematics study. we build observatories aimed at doing a systematic study of the sky and figuring out whether we are talking about natural objects like birds, bugs or maybe human made objects like balloons, drones, airplanes. or, something lentz -- something else. it would have a huge impact on the future of humanity. i face a challenge in the scientific community. they say, we do not want to engage with this subject because

of the crazy claims made by nonprofessionals over the last couple of years. it sounds like noise. 1000 years ago, there were people saying the human body has a soul. therefore, it should not be -- there are people saying we should not touch the human body because it does not have a soul. that is nonsense. we do not want to do anything about it. where would modern medicine be? we would never have operation. the correct way to approach it is to say, let's examine eight the scientific way by using evidence to guide us. let's get to the bottom of this, whatever the answer is. if it ends up being balloons, so be it and let's move on. but, just speculating about it makes no sense, especially since military personnel talk about it as if it is a risk to their safety.

separate from that, there is the issue of what the u.s. government knows. some people that have high clearance know something others do not, according to gresh. we need to get to the bottom of that, as well. altogether, i would say it is best to approach in a scientific way. unfortunately, my colleagues are not willing to do so. i am trying to pave the path for that. believe me, every week i have to argue with people who claim that everything in the sky must be stones. rocks. i call that the stone age of science. where everything in the sky must be stone. that makes no sense at all. we sent out five probes into space. voyager one, voyager two, pioneer 10, pioneer 11 and new horizon. they will exit the solar system in 10,000 years and become space trash.

if we did that over the past 50 years, other civilizations that preceded us by billions of years could have littered interstellar space by a lot of probes. you can think of it like plastics in the ocean. they keep accumulating over time. these probes are filling up interstellar space. by looking around, we may notice space trash from other civilizations or some functional devices. host: let's go to the phone lines now. we are ready to take questions or comments from you to harvard astrophysicist avi loeb. the numbers to call if you are in the eastern or central time zone, (202) 748-8000. mountain or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. first up is joe calling from florida. caller: good morning. this is a very interesting topic. it is like relevant particular

early what has been happening of late. there has been sightings of numerous objects. as a matter of fact, i want to point out supposedly there is a satellite orbiting the earth that people claim were sent here, like the guest mentioned, years ago from another constellation. what does that mean? it means as humans, we probably do not know what we think we know. we cannot be as smart as we think we are. you think, for example, some of the billionaires now. what is elon musk thinking about? going to mars. did we go to mars, destroy mars, come back here and are getting ready to destroy the earth and moved back to mars? this is an interesting topic. disclosure in the long run will -- disclosure in the long run

will allow us to know, are there other civilizations that look like us and are sending probes to get us to connect? these are relevant questions and a relevant discussion. guest: thank you. i should comment that many of these multibillionaire's visited my home past couple of years after my book appeared. they are funding some of it, funding my research. this expedition to the pacific ocean cost $1.5 million. it was fully funded by a donation. i did not have to go around and fund raise. people came to me because they were inspired by the vision. the implications for humanity are huge if we find clear evidence using the scientific fed. the problem is, a lot of scientists say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. at the same time, they are not

seeking the evidence. if you are not searching, you will not find anything. i am searching. with respect to implications, i describe them in the book that will come out next month called interstellar. i think this is the most exciting subject that science has to offer. the public resonates with it. for the politicians in washington, d.c. resonates with it. it is our duty to attend to it, rather than allowing speculations. that puts it back in the same place where it was decades ago. we are much better now. we have exceptional instruments we can use to figure out what is out there. host: let's go to falls city, oregon now. russell on the line. caller: hello, mr. loeb. i was wondering if you are

considering the energy factor of these vehicles. if we have contact with a vehicle that has this technology, with no exhaust and a mysterious way of using gravity or something, that should be utilized by the american people to be able to help our country to tackle global warming, maybe the whole world? thank you. guest: the way i look at this, this is a subject scientists should be engaged in. it is not a government duty to figure out things that come from interstellar space. the government is supposed to worry about national security. this is not a matter of national security. this is a matter of science. of course, once we figure out what these things are, if they do exist, we can use it to our advantage like any other thing in science. what these things mean has to be

the job of scientists. not of the corporations that try to make a profit, and not of government officials that try to make politics out of it. it should be scientists, the best scientists in the world inking about it. the challenge is great. most likely, whatever arrives to our doorstep is far more advanced than the technologies that we possess. he did not get to their doorstep -- we did not get to their doorstep, they arrived first to our doorstep. they could be billions of years more danced than we are. we just have one century of science and technology. that is all. they could have millions of years of science and technology. for us to meet the technological gadget a more civilized organization produced, that cave dweller would look -- oh, it

will look miraculous the way the burning bush appeared to moses in the bible. it would look like a miracle. it would take a wild to reverse engineer that. but, to figure it out, you need the best minds in the world. if you keep it closed and in the hands of corporations, they will not figure it out because they do not have the best minds in the world. it needs to be open, the way science is done. this is knowledge that should be shared by all humans. we are one family on this earth. if we have neighbors, we better work together. in fact, that is my hope, that it will bring people together to realize we have neighbors. host: all right. next up, jim in massachusetts. what is your question or comment? caller: yes. i would like to talk about roswell, new mexico, 1947.

also, a ufo that crashed 60 years later in the nevada desert , 1953. what do you know about that? what do you know about roswell? is it true that it is possible that we have been in some stuff that got us -- a lot quicker by stuff that we got salvaged from that crashed from roswell, new mexico 42 years earlier? guest: the problem is, any data on this historical event was not released publicly. i cannot assess what is behind it. it looks as if some of it was confiscated by government. for good reason or not a good reason, we do not know. that is why we need to see the evidence, the data, before we can make judgment. i do not dismiss these stories. i say, i went to see the meat, the evidence to figure it out.

unfortunately, it is held behind a veil of secrecy. that is what the hearing in the house of representatives was all about. the fact that there may be something hidden. of course, if we find something like that, it will change our perspective about our place in the universe and where we came from, what our neighbors know that we do not know. the one thing we should always keep in mind is, we should be modest. humans came to exist on earth only a few million years ago. that is one in 110,000th of the age of the universe. we are not the center of space. if you come to a play like that, you arrive at the end of the play and not at the center of the stage. the play is not about you.

that is a simple conclusion. we keep insisting everything is about us. and that we are at the center, we are the only smart beings. albert einstein with -- was the smartest scientist since the big bang. i think that is arrogant. we should be modest. it is possible as the previous listener mentioned, it lost its atmosphere 2 billion years ago. one thing we could do is go to these caves on mars, the lava tubes and check the walls. whether there are any cave paintings that could have been created by intelligent beings on mars 2 billion years ago. who knows? maybe intelligent life on mars preceded intelligent life on earth by 2 billion years. that is just a factor. it is possible. point is, we keep thinking that it is an extraordinary claim to

think we have partners out there. i say, if you are single and you say, i do not have a partner. obviously, it is a self fulfilling prophecy. what you need to do is go to dating sites, or at least look for the window, or at least go to your backyard and search for any objects that came from the street to figure out whether there are partners out there. it will change our life if we find a partner. host: the dating advice through me for a loop, avi. i will be honest. [laughter] larry in california. what is your question or comment? caller: yes. my question is -- i am 70 years old. i have heard this ufo stuff forever. ever since we got the drones, it is drones. we also bought balloons. all this talk is just for profit

to sell books. we have no evidence. the three guys that were there that day was like the climax after five days on this news station they had over there. they kept on saying they were going to show us that day, spill the beans. when the time came, the guy wanted to go to a skiff. he did not realize, this is your big chance. these guys are all former military, none of them have security clearance. what are they worried about? this was a chance to drop the bomb on everybody and say, here is the pictures, here is what we got. they have nothing. it sounds really weird that only the american government is hiding stuff. how about all the world? nobody has anything? another thing i have a problem with is, pilots are always alcoholics. how are we trusting these guys? we do not know them. please, stop it. until we have evidence, then we are good to go. guest: i completely agree with

you. i do not think we are at the mercy of government, by the way, because the sky is not classified. the oceans are not classified. we can figure it out as scientists. i agree with you, it is all about evidence. it is not about setting up stories. we need to see the evidence. the hope i have is that in the skiff he promised to have, david gresh would provide details about people who have firsthand expense with these programs. we just need to wait months and see if anything comes out of it. if nothing comes out of it, it means there was no fire behind the smoke. there is really nothing out there. i agree with you, we need to see the evidence. there is now a path for congress to get to the bottom of it. that is what should happen. rather than not discussing our opinions, they should contact those people that gresh gives

them and see if there is anything behind it. then, let the public know. that is it. we have a path or word. in a years time, if we still do not know anything, i agree with you. there is probably nothing. host: speaking of some of the skepticism, last month, you lead an expedition on the western pacific seafloor. you mentioned it earlier in this program. there is an article in the new york times about that expedition . the headline, scientists deep dive for alien life leads his peers dubious. it is talking about you. i am going to read a little of this article. this is an article regarding your trip last month. it says last month, dr. loeb led an expedition to retrieve fragments from several years, 2014, a fireball from space.

you lead an expedition to retrieve fragments of the fireball off the western pacific seafloor. on june 21, he claimed he had in such discoveries, he said, may be the way scientists find evidence of extraterrestrial life. i am going to keep reading. here's her quote. "not biological creatures like what you see in science fiction movies, it is mostly a technological gadget with artificial intelligence." many astronomers see the announcement as the latest example of dr. loeb making an outlandish declaration that is too strong and too hasty. his pronouncements in a promotional video in times square about the search for extraterrestrial life skew public perception of how science actually works, they say. so, i am bringing that up to say, you know, explain what did

you find? we are showing a picture of you holding something that you found. tell us, what did you find? you know the picture i am referencing. what did you find and how do you respond to those who say, you are not helping this. you are creating more skepticism. guest: let me explain what i am doing. i am sinking evidence. this meteor discovered by the u.s. government sensors in 2014, i realized together with my student that this object was moving very fast. it is not bound to the sun. it came from interstellar space. i wrote a scientific paper saying, here is a meteor, the first one that was recognized, to come from outside the solar system. a scientific paper. my colleagues were, no, we do not believe the u.s. government. i was chair of the board of

physics and astronomy at the national academies at the time. i was frustrated. at dinner, i mentioned it to both members. one suggested to have me. he attended that with the white house official, contacting the u.s. space command. the u.s. space command on march 1 2022 issued a formal letter to nasa, saying they confirmed the discovery of the interstellar origin from outside the solar system of this meteor. the 19 9.99% confidence, and official letter. put the reputation on the line in an official statement. my paper was accepted for publication at that point. the u.s. government released data about the fireball, which

allowed me to conclude that it was made of material strength with space rocks we have seen before. it exploded in the lower atmosphere in the earth where the friction is high, so the stress on the object was high and it was able to maintain its integrity on the way down to about 20 kilometers above the pacific ocean. so, it was tougher than all meteors in the nasa catalog from the past decade. 272 of them. moreover, this meteor was moving very fast outside the solar system. 60 kilometers per second, faster than 95% of all stars. we went there, to the pacific ocean, built a magnetic sled with magnets on both sides and dragged it on the ocean floor and collected magnetic particles. the type you can see in this

vile here. most of it was volcanic ash. between those volcanic ash particles, by now, we found 711 metallic marbles that look very distinct from their background. they are basically molten droplets from the surface of the object when it was exposed to the immense heat from the fireball that was detected by the u.s. government satellites. these molten droplets were found by our sled. we had 711 of them. now, we can examine their composition. roughly a millimeter in size, a milligram in mass, each. that is what we are doing with the best instruments in the world at harvard university, uc berkeley, the broker corporation in portland, germany and the university of technology in papa new guinea. just to explain, i am following

the scientific method. i am looking for the evidence. yet, my colleagues have opinions. what the paper published two weeks ago, saying the u.s. government was wrong. this object was moving three times slower. it was made of stone. at the time this paper appeared, i came back from the expedition with materials in my hand and i already knew it is mostly made of iron. this paper was wrong. that was the kind of situation i am facing, where i have colleagues who argue that anything in the sky must be stones. i am trying to collect the evidence. that is exactly the way science works. the way i am pursuing it is the way science works. we will publish the result in a scientific paper that will be submitted to a peer-reviewed journal. on the ship, i was joking at sunrise. i usually jog at sunrise at home

and i did it on the deck of the ship. there was a filming crew on the ship. the director of that filming crew asked me, it looks like you are running. are you running away from something, or toward something? my answer was, both. i am running away from some of my colleagues who have strong opinions without fitting evidence. and, i am running toward a higher intelligence in interstellar space. host: all right. we will look forward to those conclusions. let's hear from wanda, chico, california. caller: ok. back in the 1950's, have you heard of averell byrd? he wrote about his in town or with lost civilization in antarctica. according to his hollow earth. . -- hollow earth theory. byrd met in the south pole.

did you know the south pole was once ice free? you can see admiral byrd's testimony, videos on youtube. maybe you should look at antarctica instead of way out there somewhere. guest: thank you. there are all kinds of claims in literature. what we want to do here is, rather than study stories from the past that did not use the instruments we currently have, 'sust figure it out ourselves, the way kids figure out what is out there, rather than listening to stories from decades ago. decades ago, people did not have the instruments we have now. let's just figure it out. it could take us months, years, we find out if there is anything unusual around earth. that is what i am after, rather

than digging into the history books, reading about what people said three decades ago. we cannot revisit those things. host: next up, we have ellen in oyster bay, new york. caller: good morning. so excited to be listening to dr. loeb's presentation and watching the presentation that was on c-span a few days ago with the scientist. i am a phd rn. i went to cornell and other universities hand have been a scientist my whole life. i find this refreshing. i am a contac-d. i have written a book called synchronous connections about my own experiences, direct experiences, with what you might call extraterrestrials who have visited here. that has gone on in my personal life since 1958, and ongoingly. i am so excited to see the

scientific inquiry to something that is totally a part of my life. guest: thank you. i should mention i was in the washington national cathedral in november, 2021, together with averill haynes and jeff bezos on stage. april has a bachelors degree in physics from the university of chicago. she is the director of national intelligence. at the time, it was about half a year after she delivered the first report about unidentified anonymous -- anomalous phenomenon. i said to her, what do you make of this? do you have any gut feeling about what these things are? she said, i do not know. i believe her. i think the government, if it has anything, probably does not really know what it means. that is why i am advocating if the government does have something, please, let

scientists look into it and figure it out and help you. host: calling from denver, colorado, let's hear from andrew. caller: hi, yes. host: go ahead, andrew. caller: all right. host: you are speaking with dr. loeb and tia. go ahead. all right. well, dr. loeb, i will ask you one final question as we finish up the show today. again, going back to that hearing. you talked about, the government should be more transparent. how much information do you think should be released? saw the testimony where he was like, i can only release it in a very secure, private mechanism for congress. how much of that should be released publicly? guest: i think in his case, it is a legal issue.

he is worried because he signed documents in the past, nondisclosure agreements and so forth. he is worried legally about what may happen if he releases some information publicly. the bigger picture is forgetting about david gresh. you did not want to compromise national security. you do not want to release information that could include details that adversaries can take advantage of. that is all. now, if your are materials that were collected decades ago, obviously, it is irrelevant for national security now because what happened decades ago -- any discovery from decades ago was using sensors or instruments that the u.s. used, that are not used anymore. even if adversaries know about how this was discovered or what these materials are, that will not compromise national security because it is such old information. my point is, there must be some

details that can be released, if indeed such programs exist. perhaps it became sort of bureaucratic nightmare to get to the bottom of this, but now that gresh is willing to provide details so he does not face legal issues, the representatives need to follow-up up on those details and figure out if there is anything behind them. it is not -- if not, let's move on. why do we need to keep speculating? we need to figure out and move on if there is nothing behind it. host: we will end there. harvard astrophysicist avi loeb, who serves as the head of the galileo project. thank you again for joining us this morning. also, the author of the book extraterrestrials, the first sign of intelligent life beyond earth. thank you, dr. loeb. guest: thanks for having me. host: that is going to do it for

"washington journal." we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. ♪