inside of the book and thank you for sharing so many today. guest: i have appreciated this thank you so much for wanting to highlight the story. >> all q&a programs are available on our website or as a podcast on our c-span radio app.

host: you can text us your comments at (202) 748-8003. we are also on twitter and instagram. we did this for republicans and independents yesterday.

today, democrats and independents only to call in for this first hour anyway. supporters of joe biden, and a line for all others. straight up we keep track of this through real clear politics. the republican candidate, former president donald trump 44% of those surveyed with the real clear politics and president joe biden, 45%. the big issue is the economy. this is a look at the headline of the washington post yesterday morning. "plot middle-class messaging wind to take economic high ground."

the wide -- about a dangerous flaw in the democratic brand. based on six months of pulling, the documents showed the party losing to republicans on the economy. the democrats focus on social issues and not enough on pocketbook issues. 'challenge is one of volume ,' read the opening slide. the effect was almost immediate. leaders in the house and senate, including hakeem jeffries and senator elizabeth warren started sneaking "growing the

middle-class" into social media statements. president joe biden returned with a speech reprinting his approach as bidenomics. real clear politics also tracks approval ratings by issues. on the war in ukraine, 44% approve of president joe biden's handling of the war in ukraine, 41% on his foreign-policy, 36.3% on crime. is he your candidate? that is the line. (202) 748-8000 is the line to use. if you have another democratic candidate you prefer, (202) 748-8001. for those who are unsure, (202)

748-8002. the president over the weekend in maine was touting his bidenomics. [video clip] >> i'm not here to declare victory on the economy. bidenomics is just another way of saying restoring the american dream. i believe every american willing to work should be able to get a job no matter where they live in the heartland, small towns, big cities, to raise their kids on a big paycheck. my dad was a well read men. his greatest regret was he never got to go to college. i give my word, this is what he would say. all my siblings remember. he said "a job is about a lot

more than a paycheck. it is about your dignity. it is about respect. it is about being able to look your kid in the high-end say 'it is going to be ok.' that is what it is about. if you are willing to work hard, you ought to be able to make it. what has always worked best in this country is investing in america, investing in americans. when we spend on the middle-class, we see stronger economic growth and everybody benefits. we are making significant progress, and we have done all of this without raising taxes. i commit that we will never raise federal taxes on anyone making less than $40,000.

[applause] >> some of my friends on the others say "big spending biden is raising the deficit." and the four years that the last guy was president, he raised the national debt by almost 40%. that $2 trillion tax cut? raise your hand if you got any of it. not a penny paid for. in 2 years i cut the national debt by 1,700,000,000,000 dollars. host: a couple of comments on twitter -- this one says " anyone but biden and trump." "i will copy my same reply from

yesterday. i remain open to republican and democratic candidates. i don't think it is a biden- trump rematch no matter how much the media pushes it." "what we need is a man or woman who does not fear the to party tyranny and is not afraid to bring it down." if you support biden, (202) 748-8000. if your candidate is someone else, (202) 748-8001. and for all others who are unsure of who they would prefer, (202) 748-8002. let's go first to robin in cleveland, tennessee who is a joe biden supporter. caller: yes, i am a joe biden supporter because there is only one party standing up for democracy. there is only one party standing up for the middle-class and the right for everyone to vote, and

it is not the republican party. a vote for anybody else other than joe biden is of vote for trump who would be running the government from prison. these republicans are radicalized. they do not think he has done anything wrong. there is no equivalency to anything the democratic party has ever done. we have never tried to storm the capital because we didn't win. we really won gore versus bush. the republican party is a radicalized party. they are fascists. a vote for anybody other than biden is a vote for trump. host: laurie and vermont tells us her candidate is rfk junior. caller: i don't plan to vote for either a republican or democrat,

because i think both parties put forth candidates that most people don't want. rfk junior, i plan to vote for him now but i'm still up and whether candidates. as far as i am concerned, biden could not have won the primary without the democrats going all out for him, and perhaps a vote for biden is really a vote for kamala harris, because i don't think he will make a full term. host: what are some of the things about rfk, smooth the things he is saying that you like? caller: i am totally antiwar, and robert kennedy junior seems to be one of the few candidates talking about that issue. i want to us out of ukraine as soon as possible. host: let's go to clearwater florida. ellen is also a joe biden supporter. caller: good morning, c-span.

i am a biden supporter. i appreciate everything he is doing and trying to do. if the republicans could just stay out of his way, h will makee this -- he will make this place easy-going. host: this is from politico this morning back to the theme of the economy, the headline is "top super pac -- congressional democrats are getting directions from the largest super pac. they advise that democrats can boost reelection chances when they focus on economic issues, according to a memo first obtained by politico. last week, representative kevin

kiley criticized president biden on his so-called widenom -- bidenomics. >> that is the assessment of the overwhelming majority of americans who say that the economy is not doing well, that their own financial situation is -- real earnings have declined 3% over the last couple of years. people have less ability to provide for their families and pursue the american dream. we have to acknowledge reality. there has been a pr push to rebrand the president's economic policies as bidenomics but it will not but they see what --

will not full americans when they contradicts what they see with their eyes. host: your candidate for 2024 -- (202) 748-8000 is the line to use if you support joe biden. (202) 748-8001, if you support another candidate. (202) 748-8002 if you are unsure who your candidate will be in 2024. jack is on that line in cleveland, ohio. caller: i think the only liable alternative -- viable alternative are mouthpieces of the cia complex. i you gof dangerous lobby -- if you go beyond that to another dangerous lobby, the big pharma

companies that are really poisoning us and have bought off so many politicians as well as the military-industrial complex has, and i think the only one who is calling them to account is robert f. kennedy, jr.. i saw him on a town hall meeting and he got rousing hands of applause for bringing the troops home from bases around the world, including and especially the ukraine. he pointed out things like we are being brainwashed into supporting those wars by the corporate caa operation mockingbird media. we are not being told that the u.s. provokes the incursion by russia for years, and has rejected every overture, and has funneled now hundreds of

billions of dollars of deadly weapons. host: guest: do think that -- host: do you think that message, particularly on ukraine, the military, that message resonates with independents, democrats and some republicans? caller: i think very much so. i think it is being suppressed by the media, which is interlocked with that military-industrial complex that president general eisenhower warned against. there are many people who will not be heard from reflected in the media because the media is one arm of that military-industrial complex, and the big pharma complex gives millions of dollars of drug advertisements to the media, buys up politicians just like boeing and raytheon who have led

us into all these dirty wars based on lies, control the media, and the government, and the politicians as well. host: some other political news, we have been talking about the real clear poll averages. this is the latest . latest polling from the new york times -- this is the latest polling from the new york times. 17% for the closest running candidate, that would be governor ron desantis. the others fall off after that. in minneapolis we will hear from ilga who is uncertain who her candidate will be. caller: i am very good. i am very uncertain about all of

this. i will vote for whoever will be the best candidate for the people, but i am a trans person. i need to vote for who will be the least trans phobic. donald trump will be nasty for that, so i will vote for joe biden. there are so many other good candidates like cornell west. there is our little friend, her name is marianne williamson. she is very good. beggars can't be choosers. we only have three candidates running am a few debatend -- and a few debates to figure out who these people are. democrats can't act like it is decided. people can't think that joe biden will be the only winner

until the primary is over. do you remember 1968? there was a big, whole to do about those primaries. we have a right as people that have primaries. people should not get too cocky. . things could happen. there could be a president sitting in jail, commanding from his bunk bed. host: we are focusing on democrats and independents in this first hour. if you -- the numbers are (202) 748-8000, if you support joe biden. if there is another candidate of your choosing, (202) 748-8001. for those who are unsure, it is (202) 748-8002. we are joined by alex thompson with axios. he is a national politics

correspondent, joining us to talk about campaign 2024. good morning, alice tom -- alex thompson. we saw your reporting this morning, writing about the president's team recently splitting with mark elias because of disagreement with elias over leg strategies. what happened there? why is this important to the campaign? guest: the next presidential election might be the most litigious in modern memory. essentially, every election since 2000 has become more and more litigious. it can have incredible consequences to who will occupy the white house, and who will control the house and senate. why this is important is a sickly the president -- basically the president's team

is in disagreement with one of the main lawyers in the democratic party. mark elias believes this moment calls for all hands on deck, being aggressive,, litigious and biden's team feels that while that approach can be emotionally satisfying, and generate lots of good headlines, they note that given the conservative makeup of the judiciary right now, it actually can backfire. what has happened in a few cases is that judges have not only rejected some of those repose holes, but have gone back -- those proposals, but have gone back and established worse principles. what is the best way to litigate the 2024 election? the president's team is on one

side and mark elias, who represents the democratic congressional committee, is on the others. this might just be the first step in this battle. host: this is not to say that either the president's team are the democratic party won't litigate when they see vital issues at stake during the election. >> absolute -- guest: absolutely. the president's team believes in more carefully picking their spots. if you are on the mark elias team, may be you think they are not responding with the urgency that the moment calls for. the president's team is steered by bob bauer, who was obama's lawyer. i is not as if theyt are not hiring lawyers, they just don't want to hire this lawyer. host: in term of the former

president's legal concerns, what has been the white house strategy in responding to the indictments as they come down with a potential third indictment coming this week on the former president? guest: the public facing strategy has been a firm no comment and it has been that way for the past six months/ the president's team makes an effort to say that they are respecting the independence of the justice department. this comes as congressional republicans argue that there is a two-tiered version of justice. what you are seeing is that there -- essentially the white house is trying to duck and cover here and stay above the fray, but the legal proceedings play themselves out.

they do not see any benefit to trying to politicize this any further. host: we have been talking with our viewers about the focus of the campaign. it has been totally about focusing on the economy, and the slow recovery that is beginning to show in someplaces, the lessening of inflation, and the president pushing hiso bidenom ics theme. guest: that is more of a communications-forward strategy. they have put in place the strategies necessary, especially -- the bidenomics push is a communications-first push. you look at growing gdp, the recession that a lot of people feared never came, and things

are much better postvaccination. the fact of the matter is americans do not yield that joe biden has done a good job on the bonhomie, looking at all of those -- economy looking at all of those opinion polls. in polls show that they do not give biden credit for inflation being lower given inflation got so high in the first place. the bidenomics push will be a central part of biden's campaign in order to change those numbers before election day 2023. host: what is next on biden's calendar in terms of any campaign travel / guest: you always have to

distinguish between campaign travel and official travel. it might officially be official travel, when it is really campaign travel. the president is set to go out west next week. he. stop in utah and arizona. arizona is a swing state, utah is not. we do not have details yet on what he is announcing so that will be something they will try to point to as the president runs for election. host: you can read more on axios.com. alex, thank you for being with us this morning on washington journal. host: more of your phone calls. (202) 748-8000, the supporter line, joe biden supporter line. (202) 748-8001 for democrats and independents who support another

candidate other than joe biden. marvin is in trenton, new jersey, a joe biden supporter. caller: joe biden is not a perfect president, but no president is perfect. the thing that really blows my mind is that people actually have, other right-wing extremists in this country have the audacity and gall to embrace a man like donald trump. i'm in jersey. we have known about donald trump sense -- since 1989. he is a grifter, a pathological liar, and a thief. he embraces all of the things that people like him, who

always have complaints with the have nots. this man is an utter catastrophe. to even think about him being president again, he should be imprisoned for the rest of his life literally. the republican party offer nothing. they offer nothing! host: to kathleen in michigan also a joe biden supporter. caller: hi, thank you for having. i support joe biden/ may be his age is a concern, but he is an honest broker as far as dealing across party lines. the root of the problem in all politics is bribery. politicians curry favor, and the media itself is not a good information source for voters.

people who are working to survive, no information, what they are getting is propaganda on the internet, so the root of the problem is anyone tying their boat to marianne williamson, robert kennedy junior, you are voting for donald trump. at this point the houses on fire -- house is on fire. get to the root. if we all go the other way, we are being duped. we do not even have decent information now to trust. we cannot here truth. we have to get oligarchs -- all the media does not talk about bidenomics. in michigan we have large infrastructure projects going, energy, battery plants coming in.

we don't hear about where it is from. basically, we were republican- run legislative ranch. now we have democrats -- legislative branch. now we have democrats in charge and still the messaging is run by the wealthy. do not vote for ronald kennedy junior. i'm sorry, we have to get to the root. voters are voting for the candidates they want. i am against war too, but let's get back to the root. host: kathleen expressed some concerns about the candidate's age. there is also concern on capitol hill. alex bolton wrote on senate leader mitch mcconnell.

" mcconnell's health scare puts an emphasis on the race to replace him." " mcconnell plans to serve out his current term as leader, and has given every indication that he intends to return sn a gop leader in the 119th congress, which starts in january 2025, hopefully with republicans in control of the senate majority, get senators privately acknowledge that mcconnell appears to be frailer after falling and suffering a concussion. the incident kept him away from the capital for more than a month. mcconnell's health came back into the spotlight while he froze midsentence, delivering

his remarks and had to step away from the podium. he later insisted he was fine and declined to comment about any health problems. 'i think the leadership race is well underway, and this accelerates it,'the lawmaker noted that senate republican john thune ran votes with his staff working in close coordination with floor staff to resolve objections." back to your commentss on the 2024 presidential race. kevin has another candidate in mind. caller:to see our former

president get in office and do what he has been doing -- when he got to deport people, war criminals, people who were in jail, gave them a free pass to go back into the world and do with they want to do, that was evil. when obama and mr. biden went camping, i don't want to present on -- want a president like that. i i'm trying to be the best

christian i can be. i thought about it. "if i could get the money to be a politician, get in the race, i could set forth a standard." host: to ursula in spring lake, north carolina. caller: good morning, c-span. it is always great to listen to all these comments. this time, i am very unsure on who i am going to vote for. i listened to c-span yesterday afternoon to listen 12 of the candidates, and i'm sorry to say there were only 2 of them who i might take my vote to, end one of them was the mayor from miami. the thing is i'm to the age now,

everything is young to me on television. there was one comment made. we should let the young people in. the young people are the ones will carry this united states on, so please give them a break and let those old men retire. have a good day. host: alton, illinois. ron supports joe biden as a candidate in 2024. caller: good morning, c-span, and all the family out there. i'm writing with biden. he is a decent man. he is trying to do his best. any other vote would be for trump. i'm i'm so tired of hearing about hunter biden.

the more i hear about hunter biden, the more i support biden. i will be supporting biden to the end. he is not off playing golf every week. this man is decent. he is trying to help america, so i'm riding with biden. host: the headline this morning, and our guest earlier alex thompson was referring to this trip from president biden coming next week -- " president biden to arizona to talk about clean energy and climate change." " biden will visit arizona, new mexico and, arkansas."

lindsay is in tennessee choosing another candidate. caller: no, i will not vote for biden. i certainly won't vote for trump either. right now, i am weighing my options of who i may want to vote for, but for sure it is not biden, and it is not trump. host: all right, rocky river ohio. janet supports joe biden. caller: good morning,. bill you are the best. you are so fair. i want to talk about robert kennedy junior. people are not talking about the fact that -- who is behind him? steve bannon. steve bannon goes to europe and he promotes people like corbin -- orban.

this is the guy behind robert kennedy junior, who not only has crazy ideas about the vaccine. steve bannon is very dangerous. this is who is backing this man, and trump love some, and fox news loves him. this is robert kennedy junior. i only vote democrat. bill, you are so fair. you are the best. host: to new york city. russ is a supporter of rfk junior. caller: i second that motion about mimi. i'm a leftist democrat all my life, and that slandering of trump and rfk junior is guilt by association. what is really criminal is biden

and his administration will not supply rfk junior with secret service protection. it is terrific. host: if you -- democrats and independents only in this first hour. (202) 748-8000 if you support joe biden as candidate next year. (202) 748-8001 if your choice is another candidate. for those of you who are unsure at this point, (202) 748-8002. you can use either of those lines. we welcome your text comments as well, (202) 748-8003. some of the ads you may be seeing this summer from way to win and future forward usa supporting the president and his economic agenda. here's a look at those ads. [video clip] >> in america we value our

freedoms, and ceos are free to negotiate their bro -- their salaries and benefits as they choose. biden wants workers to have that same benefit. protecting our freedom to thrive. ♪ host: a couple of views on social media. "let's go with joe." "i love joe biden. he saved american democracy from the worst trader in american history -- traitor in american history." if the next president is a republican, it doesn't matter. any republican administration will got federal agencies.

they will got the military and state and fill them -- up next, a joe biden supporter, is philip in north florence. caller: i support joe biden because he is a visionary and progression for the future even though he is 80 years old. he has the best vision for future growth than all of the other candidates. in spite of the global market with inflation, the job is getting done, inflation is coming down. the republicans like to brag about oil and drilling. if we check the record, it will be proven that more drilling is being done under

this administration. in the future i wish you would put up a chart showing inflation and growth, job growth, etc. against the other, previous party for factual proof. host: joe is in making pennsylvania. joe would like to see former senator al franken run for president. tell us more about that. caller: i followed him as a senator. i liked what he was doing then. he resigned because of implications. i have been following him so often on his podcast. he is smart, he is young, he knows what is happening and would be a great benefit to the

united states. i m also just outside of erie, pennsylvania where trump had his rally on saturday night. the auditorium was about to hold about 6000. there were barely 4500 there. there were whole sections empty. i want to say there were more people who attended the barbie movie over the weekend then who attended the trump rally. that is all. host: joe, do think those 4500 are in your views reflective of the support level there in the erie area? caller: from the reports many of those came in from neighboring states. we had people come up from pittsburgh, over from ohio, from northern new york. there were some people from all

the way in tennessee because they follow trump anywhere. erie county did not really come out for trump as it was supposed to. as erie county goes, so does pennsylvania. trump might make noise, but he is certainly not going to be winning erie county in 2024. host: over the weekend while the former was an eerie, the current president was in maine. a few stops there. here is more with president joe biden. [video clip] host: yesterday we learned -- >> yesterday we learned that the economy grew faster than expected last month. inflation is at its lowest point

in 2 years and wages are up after being adjusted for inflation. when i came to office, i was determined to end the trickle-down economy. --make sure i don't trip. maybe if i stand i will make myself taller. [laughter] >> i came to office determined to move from trickle-down economics to bidenomics. all that trickle-down stuff, my dad was an honorable man. he worked like the devil. not a whole lot of trickle-down at our kitchen table. according to morgan stanley, goldman sachs -- we have created

13 million new jobs, more than before the pandemic, nearly 28,700 here in maine. [applause] >> 800,000 new manufacturing jobs nationwide. we have attracted almost half $1 trillion in outside private investment to grow the economy because they know it is available now. that is more jobs ni two years -- jobs in 2 years then were created by any president in a 4 year term. [applause] >> unemployment has been below 5% in america for the longest stretch in five years. we now have more jobs than we did before the pandemic.

host: the president touting his economic record. the wall street journal with another view here. "biden goes all in on bidenomics : voters aren't buying it." "'it is not an accident, it is my economic plan in action' biden told workers. 'together we are transforming the country.' the wall street journal writes that many voters are not buying it, and they cite what might be his main albatross -- inflation. high prices have turned economic issues that could have been a tailwind for his reelection into a headwind." marilyn i -- alan is calling in,

unsure of his candidate for 2024 . caller: can you hear me? first of all, the guy's barbie comment, i thought that was kind of cute. if it came down to biden and trump, it would be biden. my only reason for unsure is, it is so early. i like to give all candidates a shot at being president of the united states. the only other thing i can say is i want to thank c-span for yesterday having frank luntz on their. he was fantastic. the man was pointing out facts,

so thank you c-span for that. host: geme is on the line -- ge ne is on the line from kansas. caller: can you hear me? host: yes. caller: thank you for taking my call. i love biden. i am 80 years old, and he is my candidate. i went to bring up a point no one ever talks about. trump has actually been convicted of rape. he was convicted in a civil court by a jury. he was convicted of rape! why does no one talk about this. he was fined $5 million. the judge's exact comment was"trump raped this woman."

if a man is convicted of rape, he should not be alone with your daughter, he should not be alone with your wife. this man is dangerous. all of you women out there, did you know that trump was convicted of rape. the man is a convicted rapist in a civil court. look it up. i am a woman. the thing about old women is we do not forget something like that. i have friends who were raped when they were young. i think the women are going to bring trump down. i'm sorry, i am really upset about this. host: glad you got through. we we will go to rosemarie in columbia, maryland. caller: i don't usually have a

chance to listen to c-span, but i am in a hotel for the night with my husband, so i was really glad that i happened cap this program -- catch this program. sometimes i am worried the media is off base, and i wonder if they are actually pulling young people when they say that president biden is not a strong enough candidate. whatever your age, and i am in my 70's, and my husband is 80, president biden was not our first choice, but we have been blown away by what a great job he's doing. we don't favor war. we remember the vietnam war very much. we were both opposed to that.

this kind of war where you have a person like putin, and a person who seems to have president trump in his pocket -- we think this is a very dangerous time for the world and we don't want an isolationist policy. this idea that we just have to turn the other cheek -- i don't think that is a good idea at this point. we have been extremely impressed by the people president biden his cabinet with and is putting people he is supporting for -- unlike former president trump, the idea that we could possibly have any republican -- i just heard this from another person

-- the idea we could have a republican in the white house again terrifies me. we need to not only control the presidency, we need to have a majority in the senate and in the house. so many people do not seem to understand that with the balance of power, and the checks and balances, i think president biden could do so much more good, if only he could get things through congress, if he could have more judicial appointments. the republican party for the last 25 years has been just decimating the middle-class. we can say strongly enough, and i say that because my husband and i are so on the same page

about this. host: you and your husband are on a different page on what issue in particular? caller: no, we are on the same page. we both think biden is doing a good job. if something happened to him, we think the likelihood that kamala harris would be president would be fine too. we think that she also has many assets, and could be far better than any republican candidate. the whole idea that we could have a third-party candidate, i think that the republicans have so many people supporting them with deep pockets. billionaires want to republican party there, because if they are there, they will not have any regulation. host: we are continuing with about 7 minutes left in our

conversation or so. your presidential choice for 2024. we are also keeping track of the response on twitter. the current president, joe biden with some 62% of support on twitter or so. @cspanwj is how you let us know what you think. sheila is also a joe biden supporter. caller: i would vote for joe biden again because he is a fair man. he cares about the country. republicans don't care about the country. kevin mccarthy kept on and on until he got what he wanted. it is pathetic when republicans only want to hang onto power. they will let president trump back into the white house -- it is just disgraceful.

host: indiana is next, ruth is a joe biden supporter. caller: hello. one of the big problems in this country is how we vote. i have never been a straight republican are straight democrat. i look at what these people stand for. i went decency, i want experience, i want empathy for people. i voted for a lot of republicans, but i voted for biden last time, and i think he has done a really good job concerning all the -- considering all the junk that has been thrown at him by the republican party. indiana has benefited greatly from everything he has done during covid. we now have a $2 billion pocketbook to choose from in indiana. a lot of financial help. indiana is a red state, and they don't want to give biden credit

for this, but they accept all the money and help. the man has done a pretty darn good job. if people had look into trump's background before they voted for him, they would see he got away with things all his life. he is morally bankrupt. i don't understand the republican party anymore. they are way off the deep end now. i am concerned about our democracy, and i hope people wake up and do the right thing, research who you are voting for. host: touching on projects in indiana -- "project investment gives a boost to the economy." " building electric vehicles, new bridges, airport upgrades, and a host of other infrastructure upgrades, and green energy projects are juicing the economy when it

needs it most. that is providing surprisingly quick and robust moves to the u.s. economy. the jump in private investment in particular is already filtering into the economy. business spending on manufacturing plants, transportation equipment, and software rose 50%. according to data released thursday, while it is difficult to tell how much of that growth directly resulted from biden administration policies, economists city uptake is striking at a time when tighter lending standards have curtailed other and estimates." chris is an rfk supporter calling from coffeyville, kansas. you are on the air. caller: i can't even imagine

that the people who are saying they will vote for biden have even looked at bobby kennedy. he has been completely shut out of all the media. you have to chase him down and listen to an interview and listen to the town hall meeting he did on the internet but everything he has done has been on the internet. the only thing he gets off of the media, including c-span, is the most amazing, false propaganda you can ever imagine. i think they are afraid of bobby kennedy. he is a pretty amazing person. i have been an independent since 2016. before that i was democrat for almost 50 years/ i voted democratic year-over-year. in 2016 it became evident i had been fooled the whole time. i wasn't going to vote for trump.

i i'm going to be switching back from being an independent to being a democrat so i can vote for bobby kennedy. i can't tell you how many other people are like that, a lot of democrats -- i haven't voted for a president since 2013. host: you haven't voted for president? caller: not since 2012. host: do think rfk junior will get on the credit try mary ballot in kansas -- the democratic primary ballot in kansas? caller: i don't know. the democratic party will do -- the republican party will do everything --the democratic party will do anything they candace deal the election.

joe biden doesn't even want to have a debate. wouldn't he want to havew a debate with the candidatehys -- why wouldn't he want to have a debate with the candidates? it's because he knows when he talks to bobby kennedy, he's talking to someone who knows what they're talking about. host: our next caller is jackie. caller: i want to follow up on the lady who spoke about trump being convicted of rape. that is so true. we don't care about our morals anymore. the president should represent the people. there was a timethere was a biga and there were 300,000 people.

a lot of people died and american people were trying to get the mothers over there to send their children over here to america to see if we could save the children. those mothers in india said we will not send our children to america because america is a cesspool of creditors and they -- of creditors --predators. they said they would rather keep their children with them and die with them then to send them to america. host: more chances to talk about that later in the program. coming up next, we will be joined by national association of realtors' chief economist lawrence yun. later, atomic heritage

foundation will talk about the -- cynthia kelly will talk about the history and legacy of the manhattan project especially with the release of oppenheimer. ♪ >> c-span campaign 2024 coverage as your front will seat to the presidential election. speeches and events. to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span network. c-span now, our free mobile video app or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪

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like. c-span powered by cable. >> live, sunday, august 6, best-selling author and historian joins book tv to talk and take calls about native american history, the civil war and more. he has published several books including empire of the summer moon. his latest, his majesty's airship,. live, sunday, august 6 at noon eastern on book tv on c-span two. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we welcome back to the program lawrence yun. he has talked with us about the state of housing in the u.s. and focus on the interest rates and the entries -- and the increase

in interest rate. --rates. the fed announced a basepoint interest rate last week. what does that mean for mortgage rates in particular? guest: let's look at mortgage rates from what happened 12 months ago to today. date happened close to 3% and today it is near 7%. this is due to the most aggressive interest rate hike policy from the fed since the early 1980's. another late increase, i would disagree with the assessment just because inflation is coming down and there's more indication it will come down forward and there is lack impact of monetary policy and as the economy appears to be rolling along, you don't want to put into recession. the latest entries, -- increase,

the mortgage market price that in. what is the direction of the future? any further increases, it will push mortgage rates either -- higher. host: what is causing the ongoing demand for new housing in the u.s.? guest: the interesting dynamics is that home sales are down 20% from one year ago but this is dominating -- dominant -- predominantly existing home sales that is down. they are back to pre-covert activity. their stock prices are rising. this is due to the fact that the builders can produce empty homes and providing inventory and u.s. homebuyers across the country, what is the biggest frustration? lack of choices and inventory. people are saying, i will turn towards a new home construction so that is why the builders are

seeing recovery due to the fact that we have a very low inventory level across the country. host: you touched on this. you're concerned that the interest rate could get to a point where that could be the sticking point. that could be an inventory to -- a sticking point for potential homebuyers to say we will stay out of the market because interest rates have gotten too high. guest: when interests rate rise -- the housing sector retreated initially. the builders are seeing recovery but with higher interest rates, it means that people who consider ownership as part of their american dream, they will abide to that. they don't have the financial capacity for higher interest rates. host: you talked about the rebound particularly in new home construction. with new homes and existing

sales, what are our prices compared to last year? guest: prices nationwide, meaning the national median home prices are roughly the same now as one year ago. -2% depending on the measurement. it has been stable despite the overall reduction in home sales. we are seeing regional impact, san francisco, home prices are down 15% from the peak level and in the florida market, there are price gains midwest. the most affordable region of the country cranking 4% increases. host: he is chief economist with the national association of realtors. we are talking about the state of america. here is how we are separating the lines. if you are a homeowner, (202) 748-8000.

if you are renting your property, (202) 748-8001. and for all others, (202) 748-8002. i want to play you the comments of fed chair powell jay powell -- fed chair jay powell last week talking about the rising houses. >> you talked about getting the housing market into better balance and let -- that the market might have bottomed. where do you see the situation and balance vertically with the constrained inventory of existing homes that otherwise might be coming to market at a time where existing homeowners are reluctant to move and all that happening with the 30 year fixed rate organs are around 7% on the heels of fed tightening and with what you are type -- talking about, tightening industry lending standards? what is your sense?

>> we have a ways to go to get back to balance for the reasons you talked about with existing homes. there are many people will have a lower rate merges whereas they might want to sell in a normal situation, they are not going to do because they have so much value in their mortgage. supply of existing homes is tight. on the other hand, there is a lot of supply online. there are people coming in and a lot of buyers are first-time buyers and buying with these relatively elevated mortgage rates. this will take some time to work through. hopefully, more supply comes online. we work through it. we are still living through the aftermath of the pandemic. host: lawrence ewing, your thoughts of what the fed chair said -- lawrence yun, your thoughts of what the fed chair said. guest: there are many homeowners who have purchased the interest

rate at 3% homeowners have the chance to refinance and many americans refinance if they want to make a move, they are facing 7% interest rates so they are saying i don't want to give up my 3%. we are always changing in terms of live circumstances. additional child in the family or maybe marriages are a good indicator of homebuying. divorces happen. there is always changing circumstances. people are not moving so this is saying that america is not being dynamic and dynamism is not there so one way to facilitate potential inventory onto the market immediately because homebuilding takes time. even commercial buildings and trying to convert it into residential units, takes time so maybe we could incentivize some of the real estate investors. mom and pop investors who

release the park -- property to the market and you can do that by lowering the capital gain chant -- text. --tax. make it conditional if only first-time buyers are purchasing. we need to have more inventory. host: that seems to be a recent, post-covid phenomenon in terms of the downtime of major cities looking at the commercial property and transport in it -- and transform it into commercial property. what are you seeing? guest: many office workers are able to work from home. there are many office vacancies. not only d.c. but many cities across the country. they can see rates are still rising and you mix -- and you have the logical conclusion. if there is a storage of housing -- a shortage of housing, can we

convert those empty buildings into residential units that requires funding, tax credit incentives. it is very costly to reconvert. there has to be some level of funding and one can say in america, we can fix bridges but why don't we concentrate on building a home? host: we have focused on homeownership. what can you tell us about the effort critically post-covid since rents have priced. the average in some prices -- places to limit rents. a county in maryland put a cap on rent. how pervasive is that? guest: it is understandable giving the rents are rising. in terms of economic impact, it is probably the worst economic policy to address housing over the ability because that means

future new construction will not happen if we have rent limits. we need to ensure we build more apartments so that rent come down -- rates come down. -- so that rents come down. the areas in the south and midwest, building, rents are reasonable so we need to get away from rent control which could have defecate -- devastating impact on the city. in the short-term, it benefits renters that in the long run, housing shortage intensifies. host: you said that it scares off investors for building the rental -- for building new rental properties. guest: america wants to see improvements. host: lauren you -- lawrence yun is our guest.

caller: want to talk about the politics. are you talking about that? host: we're talking about homeownership in the state of housing. -- homeownership in the state -- homeownership and the state of housing. we will go to andrew. welcome. caller: thank you for taking my call stop -- my call. . we are missing homeownership. everyone who watches eastbound -- c-span, read a book. it was created in 1913. now because they raise the interest rates, all more -- home mortgages have gone up. it is related to the fed. it has nothing to do with the pandemic.

that was created by the cdc and the food and drug administration. the doctor whatever his name is. the federal reserve is the instigator. host: we are going to go to tampa bay, florida and hear from randy. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am a residential superintendent and i have been living in florida for 40 years in the tampa bay area. it has been strange phenomenon here to see thousands in the state of florida coming from california and new jersey and illinois. young families, younger people have never had a chance to buy. these huge apartment buildings are going up because younger people cannot afford to buy. they are renting at ridiculous costs, 2000 plus dollars a month.

there is a void. our company will do over 8000 this year in the tampa bay area. host: 8000 units? caller: yes, 8000 single-family homes. host: wow. caller: we are blooming because people are leaving and the majority are not financing, they are selling up north and buying down south. host: thoughts. -- your thoughts. guest: rents in tampa are higher than there were pre-covid. that is much better than $3000 that i was paying in california. relatively speaking, in the florida market, they need to build more as more people are moving into the space. rising population, we need to build more.

let me turn to 2019. we did study and we looked at the population growth in the u.s. and the number of jobs created. we were short on housing units in relation to population growth by 5 million to 6 million units. that is why we need to assure that there is a steady supply of new construction. single-family homes, apartments. that is only way to moderate the housing cost increases. host: as local governments have a role in helping facilitate affordable housing? guest: absolutely. you talk about some of the regulations that may be hindering building activity. you can place restrictions on building that can hinder and there can be zoning rules that say you have to be single-family

home on a large plot. that means you cannot build as month -- much. that all has a major part to play. host: this year from rob. -- let's hear from rob. he is a renter. caller: i live in a part of upstate new york that is experiencing a real surgeons in employment -- a real resurgence in employment. it is going to provide 50,000 jobs and we have no housing to accommodate what is on the horizon. i am just giving everybody a warning. we really do need residential construction up here. thank you for taking my call. host: ok. guest: they have expressed concern with the manufacturing. the number of jobs and other

secondary jobs that would be created but the lack of housing. upstate new york, it is one of the most affordable regions in the country. one can buy a decent middle-class middle income priced home for about $200,000. very affordable. property taxes are high so that people are little anxious about -- are a little anxious about property tax but with new job creation, housing affordability, there is a greater chance to build more. they are not restricted by the land availability. there is a great opportunity but the local government, local officials need to allow more building to happen, knowing that jobs will be creative -- created. i was in new york. i was amazed one could buy at medium priced home for about

$125,000. if one is seeking affordability and has that flexibility in terms of working remote or retiring, there are some parts of the country that are affordable. host: with your job, it is not just looking at data and charts but looking at on the ground construction of what people are doing in places? guest: importunate, the -- i am unfortunate -- fortunate. i was in omaha. they were building a large number of apartment instructions and we have seen the rent growth down. they are not considering greg control. you have to build more apartments to keep rent manageable. in some areas, it is lack of housing. one realtor who used to be up top -- a top producer, said it is rough to do business out here

because there is not a single inventory available. think about consumers limited in their choices with no inventory in the neighborhood. we have to consider policy, even a temporary measure to bring more inventory into the market and trying to get some of the real estate investors to release property with capital gains tax reduction, that would be a big boost. host: you did your study in 2019 so we are almost five years on into the millions of homes that your organization says need to be built. guest: homeowners in the recent data are building the historic average but they are not building more to compensate for the housing deficit. it is lingering along. we need to oversupply of figures to catch up with housing shortage deficit that we encountered earlier. host: our line for homeowners is

(202) 748-8000. renters (202) 748-8001. ginger on the homeowners line. caller: i want to know what is going to happen to seniors. my parents moved in our home and we welcomed them last year. they had a lot of stuff and we needed to put our stuff in storage. my husband and i have a looking over a gear for affordable housing. -- over a year for heart -- affordable housing will stop -- housing. there is nothing out there that is affordable. the inventory is so low. something needs to be done about the inventory increasing and something needs to be done for seniors who cannot live in apartments and have mobility issues. it is a mess. we are in the middle of a

sandwich. we live in an expensive area but we are trying to find another place that is affordable for us. there are seniors and the young. this is a very serious. we are in a housing crisis and i want to know what are people thinking about in terms of helping young people and helping seniors get housing? host: thanks. guest: one trend we are noticing is more households living in multigenerational families, meaning they buy a house and there was a grandmother in one side of the house and there is another family in the other side so we are seeing more trends of that. is this due to the cultural factors, trying to help out the elderly or is it a case of the housing affordability, and the only where to share the cost -- the only way to share the cost.

in the d.c. area, where the caller is indicated -- indicating, -- that depends upon whether the person needs to be there for school reasons or job locations or for retirees. it is affordable going out to the next county or two away from the big city. that is the trend we have noted since the pandemic and the ongoing. -- an ongoing. -- and ongoing. host: why is it possible to build for baby boomers but not for the current education -- generation? guest: considering everything, they are saying the only way to make the numbers work, we are focusing on this larger size home. the builders are focusing on larger signs -- size homes.

in some areas, they can build on lower price because the land prices are cheaper but to build more affordable housing requires some level of incentive to make the numbers work. tax credit or some level of government spending. people can view it as infrastructure spending dedicated towards housing, aside from building bridges. host: it might be pointing out that when baby boomers began buying their first homes in the 70's and 80's, the interest rates were what? guest: my parents brought their -- bought their first home and interest rates at 15%. -- home at interest rates at 15%? everyone says that was the best decision they ever made because a great thing about america is that people can't refinance -- can refinance.

at that point, when interest rates were high, home sales were slashed by half so americans did not move and people were stuck in place. interest rates have a big impact. host: going back to your concern about the potential for the rate increases, is there an inflection point where he rates get high enough where it -- where the rates get high enough where things fall somewhat and up, heart interest rates, and bake opportunity for people to buy -- an opportunity for people to buy? guest: one of the reason the economy has been holding up well is because, over 60% of americans are homeowners. they have seen their housing wealth rise. there are comfortable going to a restaurant. the consumer spending -- the

better solution would have been trying to limit demand from raising interest rates is to increase supply and more supply means more people can become homeowners at the same time. we don't have the declining prices in a major way, stable prices so that would be the better solution. host: to henry in california. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to start by saying if you recall with 2008, the debacle. there was a group that did not lose, the banks. the housing currently and forever, you have to do somewhat like where they opened up -- the government gave land so people could make their own property. that is a good idea. the government owns a lot of land and they can put those small manufacture homes, the

technology is good. either for seniors and for the young folks ending their first home and for the seniors, they can get smaller homes in nice places where they want to build their communities if they want to be separate and have not made enough money or lost their home. those things can go and the buy downs. it is a brilliant way to go with getting people to afford their home. it is not happening as much because it is not beneficial for the banks. what we have the interest rates high up in the 19%, but the sellers are doing with the smart realtors -- but this sellers are doing with the smart realtors, they are carrying 20% of the loan. a homeowner right now that has a bit of equity, they can take the 20% and get a monthly payment.

he can make some money on that carryback. these things are not allowed by the banks. host: if you want to respond? guest: those mc plant that is held by the government, because land is the -- one of the pricier elements for building. we want you to build more affordable housing and the numbers can work better with lower land prices. the other part is that related to the buy down, some home builders are offering that, knowing that they are making process. they will say, we will build homes and maybe people cannot qualify at 7% but by from house and we will -- but buy from us and we will offer it at 6%. that is probably the reason why builders uploading -- seeing more activity and related to further financing, for some of

the homeowners who have the fha, it does permit the opportunity to sell finance. mortgage rates are high but maybe the home sellers can offer financing opportunity but that is not popular because most mortgages are done through other ways. if some realtors and banks can be created, the demand for housing is there. the inventory is not there and interest rates are high. host: you are quoted saying the housing recession is over but you set the recovery has not started -- you sent the recovery has not started. he talked about inventory, what things have to happen to make the recovery happen? guest: more homebuilding or more real estate investment, really -- inventory coming to the market. you have to ensure younger americans to say you have the

opportunity to buy a home and we are not there because of high interest rates. as inflation comes down, i hopes the fed -- i hope the fed understands inflation will come down and stop races -- and stop raising interest rates. the younger generation would have a better chance of participating in this -- homeownership. host: let's hear from a homeowner, mark in massachusetts. caller: good morning. thank you. lawrence, i encourage you. you are a great guest. i work in residential construction. i have 20 years in the northeast. i live in cape cod. it is mostly a vacation community. mostly high end construction. what i have seen as the

materials, inventories and the price spikes -- spikes don't correlate with the actual lumber features --futures. and bottomed down six weeks ago and spiked up again and now it is dropping again. the price of lumber is up. i don't know if it is price-fixing. material prices are low. the retailers are still charging in x's of what the price should be at retail -- in excess of what the price should be at retail. host: you can get one in 2021. -- you could not get one in 2021. guest: the retailers are saying that prices are flexor rating -- are fluctuating and we need to keep it at the high end.

we need to assure that we have more people coming out of school going into construction because lack of skilled workers and trade skills can make it costly to build homes because it is not all about every american going to college. some people can go into trade schools and earned a -- and earn a good income. we need more people going into construction and be a truck driver. all of that needs to be considered. host: if you were a developer, or a homebuilder, you want some assurances that prices are going to rise precipitously in the direction and the time you are building a new development. is that possible? guest: one can sign a contract to lock in the price.

the future prices are changing. we are not in the supply chain disruption now but what happened during that time was people were building in the process and they stopped building because lumber prices were too expensive. but -- or they never arrived on time. waiting is costly for developers. there is an opportunity cost of waiting. most of the supply chain issues have been settled. hopefully, the boaters become more active. -- the builders become more active. the stock prices of builders are high. there is a profit incentive. we need to assure the local government does not hinder the incentive to build more. host: a homeowner in michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. this situation i am seeing in my community is the growth fish --

proliferation of the airbnb industry. housing is not available for renting or home purchase due to probably close to 40% of the houses inside the city limits here are airbnb's. there are three of the block -- up the block from the house where i live. eight years ago, they -- sold at $950,000 -- it sold at $950,000. host: who is buying those houses? caller: i don't know. people who have a lot of money but the situation is many people who work in the community here, the hospital, the skilled nursing facilities and the factories, they don't live

inside the city or in the county. many of them come from sheboygan county. you're talking about 50 miles one way to work. it is really treacherous, winter driving in a particular. -- in particular. that does not sit well with the powers to be. i was lucky i got the house when i bought it. but it is nothing like when i grew up in flint and housing was available for most people. it was affordable. host: if you want to address her issue over the concern of purchase of places for airbnb use. guest: beth airbnb issue is about housing supply issue so if you're seeing the number of homes in the area and one becomes airbnb, housing stock is

reduced. a study by the university of south carolina which was looking at myrtle beach, they found area eight -- airbnb did not hurt housing supply if you allow the developer to build more. we will have 10 more additionally housing units. it is about supply. as long is there -- there is supply, it provides more opportunities for americans to buy and rent. host: let's hear from james in chicago, a homeowner. caller: good morning. kathy had a great question. i am a volunteer community development board in chicago. we have to working on a lot of different projects. -- we have been working on a lot of different projects and a lot

of different ways to activate more spaces and one of the problems we deal with in our community, a lot of land that is not developed is owned or held by individuals or entities that do not live in the state. they are trying to contact these folks that own land and wish to develops, a strange it -- a transit station, our city has a prodevelopment regulation. with transit stops, with empty lot of land that are legally incentivize to develop -- incentivized to develop. the other problem, in the city of chicago, we have 120 -- 130,000 units of vacant housing. in any given year, we have 60,000 people experiencing

homelessness and or being in transition of home so there is an ample supply of homes and units if you look at the sheer numbers. why are the prices so high? i want to get your thoughts. my solution is that there are too many landlords. guest: if you have an mt land and it is owned -- an mt land and it is owned privately -- an

empty land and it is owned privately, they are not getting anything from that. it is a matter of trying to find who is owning the property and incentivized to release the properties and maybe some financial incentive. it does not make sense with you have housing deficits on one hand and people struggling to buy a home and on the other, you say there are so many vacant homes. commercial real estate, an mc shopping law -- an mt --empty shopping mall. maybe that can be converted. one has to be creative on how to utilize the commercial building into residential units. host: the wall street journal has a story this morning about the price of home insurance.

they write that the higher cost and lower coverage trend extends well belong -- well beyond law in california. they say i don't think anywhere is safe from this right now. someone was quoted in the article. what is the story of on the rising home insurance prices -- of the rising home insurance prices? guest: in hurricane prone areas, we have seen housing insurance not available. lack of this -- the skilled trained workers, there's property damage and they need to repair and the cost is much higher because of the lack of plumbers. we need to address more people going into the trade skill industry. look at the competition, the insurance market is dominated by a few companies rather than a

more competitive marketplace so we need to assure there is more competition in the marketplace and in the real estate, it is usually competitive. many members are competing among each other. we want to see other industries as competitive. host: summer from wesley, come from -- someone from california. good morning. caller: my question is regarding do construction in the florida area. -- regarding new construction in the florida area. what has the impact been on restraints on utilizing undocumented tradesmen who possess the skills that are needed and required to construct our new homes. i see a number of projects in florida where there is substantial numbers of

tradesmen, not what i would call anglo-saxon, black, undocumented, i think, tradesmen who are doing an excellent job bring these houses. guest: the simple solution is that we have a legal process, temporary visa for people to come for a specific purpose. they work on construction for three years and they return to their country and we will reconsider whether the person returns to the country. the other part is now only relying on immigrants but americans, for americans to go into the trade skills. many colleges are offering welding skills, carpentry, so we need more americans to go into the trade skill. host: lawrence yun is the chief

economist for the national association of realtors. thanks for being with us. coming up at 9:15 eastern, we will be joined by atomic heritage foundation founder and president cindy kelly. she will talk about the history and legacy of the manhattan project with the release of the new oppenheimer film. it is open forum and a chance for you to weigh on topics we talk about this morning, politics and policy. (202) 748-8000 is the line for rep -- democrats. republicans, (202) 748-8001. for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ >> order your copy of the 118th

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the timeline tool makes it easy to quickly get an idea on what was debated and decided in washington. scroll through and spend a few minutes on c-span's points of interest. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is open forum on washington journal. i chance for you to weigh on -- a chance for you to weigh in on political issues. (202) 748-8000 is a line for democrats. (202) 748-8001 four republicans. for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. we are joined by a washington reporter. it was a busy weekend for republican candidates. julia johnson in iowa, what do we see? guest: on friday, we had the lincoln day dinner and this was

supposed to be an opportunity for candidates to pitch themselves to islands but it was over shattered -- overshadowed the new charges added to drop's -- trump's case. host: the former president not backing down and brandishing for a potential third indictment in his favor and the campaign. guest: any strategist would tell him to continue to do that because it is working. he is receiving a bump in the polls whenever he gets a new target letter forgets new charges or indictments. republican voters are now buying what is being served to them by the department of justice whether that is legitimate or not. they don't believe it is. i'm new poll showed have of republican voters saying that they did not think there were top-secret documents at

mar-a-lago. host: some republican candidates are criticizing the former president. will hearn criticized the president and talking about his potential, his legal troubles and being effectively booed off the stage as he left the stage. guest: will heard, and others have been vocal. none of them are probably higher than 2% actually -- our polling --are polling higher than 2%. the gop strategists are saying they need to because if they don't, they cannot just make the argument that they should be president. they need to make argument as to why trump should not be an none of them have. nikki haley venture did --

ventured into it a little bit. he's -- she said the legal troubles are too much baggage and republicans need to move on and this is probably a good direction for her to head in. host: one of your pieces on the campaign was headline, trump support roles among college-educated asked primary foes fail to lock up that group. why is the former president being more successful among the college-educated roof --group? guest: he doesn't need to lock this group down. he is so successful among blue color --collar. there isn't a candidate emerging as a real competitor. he has double-digit leads and the college-educated, they are

starting to think he is the only option. they are still republicans. they do not want joe biden. this failure to seize on the moment by other candidates in the gop chimeric -- primary is making college-educated voters turned towards trump. host: what is the retooling look like? guest: it is difficult to say because it feels like it has been reported for weeks and there is an a start change -- is not a stark change you think would come out of reports from a reboot. he is not focusing on woke. he is not talking as much about the woke audiology. what we are starting to see is that he is backing off on the

culture war. he has strong opinions on the culture issues. he has not backing away from those opinions but when you hear his rhetoric he is maybe toning it down. host: julia johnson is politics reporter at the washington examiner. you can follow her on twitter at @juliaajohnson. open forum on washington journal. (202) 748-8000, the line for democrats. republicans use (202) 748-8001. for independents and others (202) 748-8002. this caller is on the republican line in oklahoma. >> good morning. i went -- i want to talk about the previous segment, you had a 90-year-old woman call in and

mentioned that donald trump was convicted of rape. that is not affected and i was surprised you let her say that several times. here is the story from the new york ap. the jury found donald trump liable for sexually abusing a common list --columnist in 1986. the story goes to say that the jury was split. he was not convicted of rape and conviction is different from found liable. thank you for taking my call. host: thanks for pointing that out. we will go to david in brandywine, maryland. caller: good morning to you and thank you for this forum. we appreciate it. it regardless -- regardless of

what one thinks of donald trump and kennedy, they are breaking up fundamental issues that we are going to have to deal with as a country. it is not sustainable, the path we are on with respect to spending. social spending and the spending that we are doing in the ukraine. it is not sustainable. many republicans realize that more so than democrats. the point is that -- i am independent and the point is, that is why the lady was talking about more educated people are going for trump. young and educated people are realizing the future of america is being compromised because of choices, especially the spending we are doing on wars. trump is correct.

these illegitimate wars, ignorant wars that are only enriching a small segment of the industrial military complex is not sustainable. i abhor many of the policies and the things trump has done. i support his vision that we cannot -- we cannot stay on this path. the point is americans are going to have to make a choice and a goes back to the bible -- and it goes back to the bible. are we going to start a different direction in our economy? are we going to say the same old thing that is taking us to a road of non-sustainability? host: this is from the new york times. nikki haley, she makes nuts and bolts promises on the trail. she was on face the nation over

the weekend and spoke about former president donald trump and his legal issues. [video clip] >> whether the things we have to look at is not what is in the best interest of the present about what is in the best interest of the country. we have to quit living in the past and i don't want there to be division over the fact that we have a president serving years in jail over documents. i want this to go away and this is why we have to have a new generational year. we cannot keep living with indictments and court cases. we have to go forward. american people are not talking about these indictments. >> you have set in the past that you would support donald trump trump if he wins the nomination but he cannot win in general questions -- election. do you think he should drop out? >> i think it was the right president at the right time.

i don't think he is the right president going forward. we have to move forward and we cannot have a general election where we are handling -- handing it over to kamala harris. >> it would help you get your message out and republicans get your message out if he drops out. is that what you are saying? >> none of us want to be talking about indictments. it is a distraction and the media is talking about it nonstop but when i do these town halls, the american public is not talking to me about the. -- that. host: in a related story, -- this year on legal fees as he and an constellation of advisors been swept into various investigations. the spending highlights the legal peril that faces the

former president. he remains the gop front runner in the 2020 for presidential nominating contest. he vows to stay in the race even if he is convicted. we will hear from dorothy. caller: hello? they should remove the caps on social security. everyone should face social security and they should have, instead of percentage raises, they should have across-the-board raises. my social security is about the same as my husband. my social security and my pension. he is making 500,000 -- $500 a month more.

i think people should quit calling in and bitching and complaining. they should stick with what is going on and not running each other down. host: caleb is calling from north carolina on the democrats line. caller: i would like to agree with dorothy on that. there is a lot of issues about -- that are important about -- t are important to a lot of people, the nuts of bolts of achy haley, who we talking about earlier. i vote democrat but i can watch what is going on in the republican party. there so many good candidates, a lot of governors with good experience that are doing a good job. host: do you think their message gets lost in the porting of the former president? we lost him. jake, also on the democrat line.

caller: good morning, i think all of this talk about trump in the documents is a big problem. most of us don't really feel like documents are a big deal even though they are classified. the problem is -- navarro put out the green base they have this codename for, they hired a bunch of fake collectors. if mike pence had had the guts to follow through with his both, it would've almost worked. host: let's go to thomas on the republican line. welcome. caller: thank you, i almost went in for independent with every thing going on. but i am retired from the

military and when i hear someone say we are all immigrants, i want my children to be educated. when somebody -- they are very knowledgeable. become dust because time is precious, a german mechanic is considered similar to a doctor. if he runs into a doctor in germany, he or she is given that level of respect. we've got to get to the point where skilled trades are considered knowledgeable professions and if we're going to pay off college loads, dust loans, fine. pay off any loans that make you a skilled professional. if you want to learn about dutch symphony or the history of wales, you can earn it on -- learn it on the internet. i have a phd to consider a skilled trade.

but summit he said you want to go to yale. and to know, i want them to make a living and be honorable. thank you. host: thank you, that was open forum, on political issues. (202) 748-8000 free democrats -- for democrats, (202) 748-8001 republicans, and independent (202) 748-8002. rising limning dust rising living costs are affecting charitable donations, americans find their pockets empty according to a new poll. the consumer research group states that dust released a survey friday they found just 32% of americans say they never get to charity but 68% agreed with the sentiment i don't -- i don't think i will have any money to donate.

those who did not have enough include 66% of baby boomers, 70% of generation x, -- inflation is a large factor of why consumers have cut back on charitable giving. people are feeling the impact of higher costs even though it has eased up a bit. calling from edgewater, connecticut, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. the caller put this excellently. and eloquently. the situation of education in this country. i was raised in europe and i am questioning being here over 50 years, why the high school education in this country is

unbelievably falling apart and constantly, every town you move to, they put in higher taxes on homeowners and basically it goes to school repairs and transporting children but no one really talks about education and responsibility and accountability of teachers. my husband was a teacher and i would attend different meetings and i know that you go to those meetings of teachers unions. it is a political machine that actually tells you the teachers in the meeting if you are a retired teacher, the school calls you to cover for a teacher, don't accept it.

just don't because it will not improve your retirement. people don't know that. and i'm very frustrated and also what is going on with the indictment and stuff that goes on, some person just called. we have to stop the corruption. i am scared because i came to this country like i came to heaven and now i feel i live in hell. this is impossible to live like this. host: you said your husband was a teacher. what did he teach? caller: triple level of different -- he was a petty officer in the navy, then a research engineer and then he --

the last part of his life was a physics teacher. a school in new york. host: thank you. in florida, fell upon the democrat line. -- philip on the della pratt -- democrat line. caller: i'm just concerned. i have been a democrat my whole life and the democratic party has censorship. why don't we hear about the rockefeller nation? these are the people running this, mandating vaccines. it is concerning and now we have the nations coming together. i don't hear anyone talking about the dollar value and what is going to happen when they have a currency like all of these nations blocking out the dollar. i don't hear any of this. host: jack is on the line from

michigan. hello. caller: howdy. i am calling as an independent even though i have voted for democrats in the past. i am 28 so i guess i am on the younger end of those usually get. i feel like calling in because i think it should be remarked that we should be able to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. specifically, i mean there are a lot of distracting things going on. but just because something is extremely distracting does not mean that it is purely a distraction. specifically, i think it is possible that donald trump has gotten himself into a lot of trouble in a lot of ways, that would not shock me to find out.

but there are still these fundamental material issues, material conditions like kids having enough to eat when they are in school so they can pay attention and learn. i don't know. i feel like speaking up because it bothers me to hear people say everyone is talking about this, no one is talking about this. the pointed statements. it is very misleading. it strikes me as misleading when many things can be true the same time. rambling a little. host: glad you got through. thank you for your call. kevin is also in michigan -- i'm sorry, minnesota. welcome to the program. caller: hi. host: your volume and go ahead. caller: yakima you had a caller from oklahoma. i want to know what the

difference between rape is and sexual assault. can somebody help me on that? host: he was talking about specific chargers of donald trump. caller: ok. i'm just wondering. host: maryland, robert on the republican line. caller: my question is, is president biden receiving money from china or is his family? is that true or not? if it is not sure, should he be putting lawsuits on people? or is a true? you got james comer trying to get information with the department of justice and it seems like he is not -- what is taking so long? that should be open and shut. if it is happening, that is critical. it needs to be found out presently, not two years from

now. we need to find out information, but according to that, if it is true or not, why is the justice department investigating it? to squash it or build it into a case to prosecute? i don't understand what is taking -- it has taken years. host: rick in missouri, democrats line. good morning. caller: i'm curious, if anybody heard about what ramaswamy who is running against trump has said, host: that he would pardon the former president? caller: yes. did anyone else hear him say that a crime was not a crime if it was not investigated? in other words, if you commit a

murder, and no one investigates it, you committed no crime. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: from the new york times this morning, trump crushing desantis and gop rivals, the times poll finds that the numbers of the election poll, the republican presidential nominee, which candidate would you be most likely to vote for? 54% of those surveyed by the new york times, 54% said donald trump. 17% for florida governor ron desantis. anthony is calling from maryland, the democrat line. caller: good morning. i'm voting for joe biden. everybody can see that he is doing what he supposed to do. i would hope you would change his running mate, because i think he would bring more people along if he would choose like

liz cheney as his running mate, a biden-cheney ticket. but what people have to do is stop referring to politicians as our leaders when they are our servants, public servants. you're treating them as royalty. you have to treat a servant as a servant. a servant does things for you, not to you. if you had a servant doing things to you, you would fire them. the republicans are doing nothing for us for the economy, nothing for crime. they are committing crime but nothing for this. immigration has been a problem and people like donald trump and his corporations ignore -- they encourage illegal immigration. you can't even talk out of both sides of your mouth saying you're going to build a wall and

then every both course and hotel you go to, you see nothing but illegal immigrants. donald trump hires them and he says he is going to be the best person for letting them know he is running. that is why he got 35% of the vote. when people stop treating these politicians like celebrities instead of servants, things will change. host: more ahead. next we will be joined by the heritage foundation president, talking about the manhattan project and world war ii after the film oppenheimer. that is next. ♪ ♪

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spend a few minutes on c-span's point of interest. >> washington journal continues. host: cynthia kelly -- cindy kelly is with us. for the last segments, we will dive deeper into robert oppenheimer and the history of the manhattan project. we will get to your organization, but for the film, are you surprised a film about robert oppenheimer has become this big box office draw in the united states? guest: this was my hope. i saw what happened with world war ii history when steven spielberg came out with saving private ryan. before that there was a world war ii commission trying to raise money for this big monument on the mall and they were getting nowhere. that film came out and galvanize the american audience. it taught them of history in a dramatic way that they had not

heard before. they raise that money, not only did they raise all of the money for the monument, but money for keeping it maintained for posterity. it was a game changer. books came out and so forth. we have needed a book -- a movie like that for the manhattan project. i have been working on this for 25 years. there have been great books, the making of the atomic bomb in 1987 and american prometheus on which the book is based, which, in 2005. dozens of others, incredible, good books. but nothing that has been a blockbuster. host: you have been working on this for 25 years was gets us to your organization, the atomic heritage foundation, are the founder and what is its mission?

host: guest: -- knowing guest: i have been in the federal government before i began. it was unrelated, working for the environmental protection agency and then cleaning up the weapons complex. while working for doe, the agency for the manhattan project, they were going to tear down all the remaining buildings that were put up to work on the manhattan project on laboratory property. he said why should we? i was able to get a small federal agency, the advisory council for historic preservation to get into it. they brought their advisory team out and said these are monumental. they were overgrown garages.

small buildings put up as they could be for building these bombs. host: if you see the film, you see these seemingly temporary but huge villages and comp boxes created in world war ii. but what was the manhattan project and why was it started? guest: it was started in desperation. the international community of physicists, most of whom had gone to school together basically in germany, oppenheimer was a classmate of his german rival, heisenberg. they knew each other. as soon as the discovery of the ability to flip this adam of uranium happened in late 1938.

all of the physicists in germany , germany, japan, england, france. the united states. they began racing to make an atomic bomb. they knew potentially since the 1920's that this could happen. it was a race against hitler's germany. hitler's started world war i -- 1939. it happened in late 1938 and early 1939. it was a race. unfortunately, the united states got going slowly. host: wife? guest: one person said it is like swimming in molasses, bureaucracy. they appointed someone who was very senior, which was a good

thing except that he was kind of old. this was a young man's game. these people were all in their 20's and 30's. it was not the right appointment. this had to be done quickly and by the right people. they actually in effect from a lot of refugees from hitler's europe who came to work in the laboratories with the british. host: you mentioned it was a race between the u.s., the allies and the nazis to get the bomb. there is a scene in the film where i believe the actor playing oppenheimer says the nazis will be slow because hitler's -- and i'm paraphrasing -- leaves that physics is a jewish science. was that true? host: it was absolutely true. and it was much to our benefit. we had at least 100 jewish

refugees, top scientists, nobel laureates who worked on the manhattan project with us. because they were refugees from hitler's germany, austria, the nazi company. italy. his prejudices against jewish people, the scientists who were on the forefront of this, was much to the benefit of the allies. host: how does oppenheimer come into this group of scientists and why was he chosen to lead the manhattan project echo -- project? guest: he was an unlikely choice. people were advising the general , whom they should select. none of them had oppenheimer on their list. unlike many of the other possibilities, he had not won a nobel prize. he also had not managed anything. some people thought he can't

manage a hamburger shop. he had graduate students and he had to run classes, but that was it. thirdly, he had associations with people who were communist party members, his wife for example had been a member of the comet's party. his brother, his girlfriend. so while he was not in self, he had leftist sympathies and there were grounds for suspicion. host: why did the general, portrayed by matt damon in the film, why did he have this confidence in oppenheimer? he seemed to be his choice matter what. host: he absolutely was. -- no one guest: he absolute was. he knew two things, that he was brilliant and he understood what it would take to make a bomb better than the other people he

interviewed. two, he was very ambitious. he had not won a nobel prize. this was his avenue to fame. and like groves, who had been passed over to go into the field, to have action in europe, he wanted desperately to make a name for himself. the two of them sought the means to fulfill their own ambitions in each other. host: our guest is t founder and president of the atomic heritage foundation. we welcome your calls and comments as we talk about the manhattan project and robert oppenheimer, particularly with the release of the new film. (202) 748-8000 is the mind to call if you are in eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific. the film focuses mostly on the activities at los alamos, new

mexico. why was that chosen? host: it was where it happened. it was where the brain trust was , that had the responsibility for designing and testing the bomb and overseeing the science across the complex. he was 5000 people at the end of the war, some say a little more. they thought they could do it with 100 scientists and their families. it was far more complex than they imagined. the other sites were involved in production of the ingredients of the bomb, usually significant. but it was not the same as designing and testing the bomb. tennessee, for example, h manufactured -- the first to produce enriched uranium. and inland, so the japanese

could not less than from the shore on the west coast, it was hampered along the columbia river in eastern washington where they reduced plutonium and built the first reactors. host: in the terms of the role of oak ridge in enriching uranium, the creation of those uranium pellets is part of the film. we had a very small capacity like a lot of things at the beginning of the war for doing that. so they had to wrap up that production as well in a short period of time. how was that done? guest: trial and error. had no idea what method was going to work to produce enriched uranium. the general authorized three separate threads. three huge factories, produced by electro magic -- electromagnetic separation, based on something designed by

lawrence and berkeley. that was one. the other was diffusion, they built a mile-long building called bk 25. the third was -- developed for the navy that was differential and thermal in heat. it was so inefficient it only enriched things from one to 2% and it tore the factory down maybe after the dust immediately after the war. but they were essential together. they took it from type a and gave it to the second plan, enriched it from 2% to 20% and then they took it to the third electromagnetic separation plan and that put it at the level they needed for the bomb. host: of the three original sites for the manhattan project, oak ridge, tennessee, the

nuclear site in washington and los alamos. are any of the three still involved in production of nuclear weapons? guest: congress in 2018 provided something like 46 billion or some number for los alamos to continue making plutonium pits. they're taking pits in storage right now and a company in texas and making sure they still work. it is a funny metal. it changes even within five minutes and within 50 years and may have changed quite a bit and may not be reliable. they are just now building factories, if you can believe it, to create new things they

are confident will work. there are smaller and can fit in new warheads. it is important. it is a good think the movie came out. host: there something serendipitous watching the effect that he had, he and his brother had property in new mexico well before los alamos was ever used in the manhattan project. he happened to know the land. he lived in new york city, but he and his brother owns this property in very rural new mexico. host: that's right. he fell in love with it as a teenager. he had developed dysentery on a family vacation in germany before he was supposed to start his first year in college. he was confined to his department in manhattan and driving his mother crazy, and she said can we find someone in your high school to take you for a few months or a year and you

can go out into new mexico? that is what he did. he rode horseback and explore the area and fell in love with the land. he says in the movie, i just need physics and new mexico and i will be happy. host: our lines for those of you in the mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8002 including new mexico. (202) 748-8000 for eastern and central, let's hear from lewis in new york. caller: thank you, i've enjoyed the discussion. i have seen the film and i read a great deal about the manhattan project prior. i had a question relating to the way a particular thing is per

trade in the film. in the film, when oppenheimer has a security hearing, the general gives testimony and although he praises oppenheimer at the end, he is asked a question by the attorney for the commission, would you approve oppenheimer for clearance today based on the current standards? and groves gives dust he hedges and that eventually says no, based on today's standards, i would not approve oppenheimer for a clearance. which seemed a remarkable statement given his complete confidence in him during the project. i wondered how realistic that was and what you think he really thought by that point of the security hearings in terms of his view of oppenheimer. thanks for answering. host: glad you got through.

cynthia kelly. guest: that is a tough one. it calls on trying to figure out what was in his mind as well as what happened between 1945 and 1954. what happened was he was the odd man out. he hoped the army would have control, the military would have control. but oppenheimer had pushed for civilian control. groves was behind building the hydrogen bomb and oppenheimer was on the others. so there must've been friction between the two. saying that, he was absolutely sure that no man of that oppenheimer could have done the job he did to run the manhattan project. i think he was foolish to have tried to answer that question. it was a question that the organization should ask itself,

not veritas came. it was an inappropriate question and a trap. there is no right answer. host: let's hear from esther in laguna hills, california. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i have two questions. i read an article in the wall street journal that einstein was somewhat of a mentor to oppenheimer. which was interesting to me. i wonder how much -- how involved was einstein in the manhattan project? because of the mentor ship? the second part of my question is i was surprised to hear that there were so many jewish scientists involved in the manhattan project. as a result, i wonder if there

was pushback against jews after the manhattan -- after the bomb was developed. as so frequently there is. being jewish myself i am sensitive to anti-semitism. i wonder if there was pushback against jewish people in general because of this influence of jewish scientists. host: thank you for the call. guest: good questions. i think that christopher nolan took liberties with einstein. he had him play a bigger role than he actually did. he had oppenheimer ask him to do the calculations as to whether the air would be ignited by the blast. that was not the case. einstein was visited in long

island in august of 1938 to sign a letter to roosevelt, warnin him of the german efforts. so he famously gets credit for getting the ball r and getting the united states and the president to start this effort. but after that he did not go to los alamos, he did not play a big role. his equation was the fundamental principle of hind the atomic bomb. so his shadow was everywhere. but he was not. after the war, he was at princeton, at the institute for studies that oppenheimer was director of. so he and oppenheimer spent more time after the war when they were together there. but whether jewish scientists

and their role in the manhattan project were vilified, that is hard to say. i think not particularly because all of the purchase pence were secret. the american public was not told who was working on the manhattan project. they did not even know about the manhattan project. and afterward it was still classified information. people did not talk about i worked on the atomic bomb. especially after it became clear that there was an arms race and people began to question whether we should be building more weapons. there was a movement so to speak. i have not heard that. host: how long did the information about who was involved in the manhattan project stay classified? when we first know that it was the -- that it was robert oppenheimer and these other scientists? guest: it wasn't --

host: he was known publicly. guest:, we knew those who were involved except one, whatever he wrote was evidence. it was not a widespread press about it until after the war. it is still hard to figure out who was on it. they did not keep a list of names at los alamos. they had badge photos, like your drivers license id. and numbers. you did not have a name. so people call all the time asking can you tell me what my grandfather did at such insults -- such and such place. but there are no records. it may be in somebody's back room. host: no one chosen wearing a letter and number, in a circular badge. the first caller mentioned that the hearing in the film, a big

part of the film, is the security clearance hearing for robert oppenheimer. he loses his security clearance. what was the ramification of oppenheimer's loss of his security clearance at the end of that hearing? guest: that meant he no longer had access to classified information. host: did it affect his career at princeton? guest: absolutely, it was the end of his career. he was on 35 advisory committees. he was the go to man. he had the best understanding and he was a philosopher and a thinker. he was thinking about how does the world cope with this? what is the aftermath and what is going to unfold? he was pushing hard for international control of this. which was also anathema to the

likes of the adc and the military. the air force thought we're going to get a ramp up, we're going to get more farmers, ballistic missiles. we are going to have a heyday with this. and with the development of the hydrogen bomb. oppenheimer stands would cut them way back. host: i want to play for the audience, the actual words of robert oppenheimer from our american history tv collection on washington journal. but let's hear from anthony in miller place, new york. caller: thank you. oppenheimer ostensibly was the grandfather, him and i signed, of the space race to death and destruction. this is hitler's paradigm come to the future.

we are cursed by the nuclear age whereby the space race for por,t seems to me that the nkind has an inability to rise tohe occasion here. the best and the brightest that developed this technology spoke out against it early on and said no, this is not a course we should be taking because -- you need three hours for this topic because the military industrial of the nuclear power, and they were going to build a mach 2 reactor. but the great many of the reactors that exist on our plan today had refueled so they double the weight, yet not an ounce has been taken into the repository as it was required. they said it would be received by 1996 but now it has been

deemed unsafe. i understand they are using tracking and injecting a lot of volatile waste byproducts from the nuclear industry. it is in undoing of the genome of our planet. it is a diabolical -- you can't see it, but radiation is increasing in our environment at a rapid level because of the industrialization and militarization. host: several topics, glad you got through. if you want to respond to anything. guest: i'm glad raise that question, what about the uses of nuclear power or energy apart from weapons? that is a huge subject. one veteran i interviewed said it is too bad you only have one opportunity to introduce yourself. the bomb was the introduction of nuclear energy. people conflate the bomb and its

dangers with everything else. which is unfortunate. it has brought us untold benefits to mankind, from cancer diagnosis and treatment to as he mentioned outer space exploration. to nuclear energy. industrial-based, 24/7 power that is unlike any other. it is a kopelman trade mix. but we definitely need to have safe, reliable nuclear power in the mix. it was harnessing of this energy is the way richard groves likes to think of this. the manhattan project was not just making the bomb. their biggest contribution was harnessing this power for a myriad of uses. host: i thought we would listen to the actual words of robert oppenheimer, speaking in 1945. this is from our american

history tv collection and we have covered a number of events about oppenheimer over the last 10 years or more. here he is from 1945. >> the speed of the development, the active and essential participation of the developer and have no doubt contributed greatly to our awareness and the crisis that faces us, even to accept the response ability of its resolution. but these are contingencies. what is not contention is that we have made a most terrible weapon that has altered abruptly and profoundly the nature of the world. we have made anything that by all standards of the world we grew up in is an evil thing. by so doing, our participation and making it possible to make these things, we have raised again the question of whether science is good for man, if it is good to learn about the world and try to understand and control it, to help gift the

world of men increased insight and increased power. because we are scientists, we must sing -- essay yes to these questions. it is our commitment seldom made explicit and seldom challenged the knowledge is good in itself. knowledge and such powers must come with it. host: raising some real concerns and yet saying and unalterable yes to these questions. what did you hear? guest: it was a little hard for me to hear. but he said we are scientists, we have to know. we have to provide to mankind the knowledge of how the world works and how science works and to hardest it to mankind's benefit. that is kind of in our nature. that is the nature of science. it is to discover and try to

fathom how best to take these discoveries and apply them in a way that is most beneficial to mankind. host: some of what is portrayed in the movie, the views of oppenheimer, they try to get behind his thinking particularly after the bomb was dropped. were those reflective of his actual views? was he torn about the fact that we had to use this weapon? he called it a terrible thing. guest: he did say it was a terrible thing. but he never opposed the use of the bomb. at the time he was on a committee to advise the secretary and the like. he said this is not our expertise. we don't know what is going on in the negotiations between the japanese and the soviets.

we don't know what is going on in the mind of them, or truman. we don't know the conversations that happen. we are not in a position to judge. whether we need this rep -- weapon in the were not, we should leave that to the military. our job was to produce it, we are scientists. after the war, many scientists said we need to be more involved in political decisions and how our discoveries are made and used. host: the movie shows a scene between the group meeting and the general, the secretary of war is there and they choose not a military target but the finalization is on civilian targets. nagasaki and hiroshima. is that truthful? guest: that is not a fair statement. the bomb could not be micro targeted to these facilities.

there were industrial facilities that were manufacturing military equipment and missions in both cities. there were stations for army and other military personnel. it just happens that the plants were surrounded by civilian residences and homes. and that the bomb created a huge blast and thousands of degrees of temperature created a firestorm. most of the people were killed by fire. the buildings were knocked down by blasts. host: we are trying to get to as many calls as we can, beth, you own with cindy kelly. you are on the air. caller: thank you. i'm calling, i am from a very large family and i had a lot of

people in world war ii. my future husband who are married in 1962, his uncle was dr. david lyons, who graduated from the university of missouri. he was part of the manhattan project. and he lived in los alamos and later taught at berkeley. he was the kindest, most gentle man and when i met him, it was -- i can't say what a beautiful man he was. but later, i asked him to write a story for my children about his life and he said he did not

want to. he did not mention that he did not want to be remembered by the atomic bomb or anything. he just did not want to write anything about his life. and then he had taught at berkeley for so many years and he was just a beautiful man. host: any comments? guest: thank you. you are absently right, your experience is something that i have found as well. i interviewed 350 veterans of the manhattan project and many of them had never spoken even to their families before we had these interviews. there were very reluctant. after the war, many citizens left the field. they did not want to be associated with nuclear weapons and they went into other fields entirely.

there is a lot of ambivalence on the people who worked on the project, the strong patriotism, defeating the nazi, keeping the world safe for democracy. bringing their brothers, fathers and nephews home from the war. ending the war as soon as they could. there were heartfelt reasons for doing it. afterwards, they had misgivings. host: these oral histories are the ones that we can find on the website of the atomic heritage museum, voices of the manhattan project, at ahf. nuclearmuseum.org. grand rapids, michigan. john, welcome. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: fine, thank you. caller: i was a child of the cold war. i turned 72.

host: happy birthday. caller: thank you. i pay close attention to what was going on with nuclear weapons. i have questions. i have seen or heard things that one of the reasons los alamos was chosen was because of the fact that there was a mistake or accident that it would not kill a bunch of people like in chicago. also there were two bombs, one was a plutonium bomb and one was a uranium. in little boy was the plutonium and -- the other bomb was the uranium bomb? (202) 748-8000 six -- host: thanks. guest: i heard the question

about the two bombs. little boy was designed with uranium but they did not know if they had more than one badge -- batch of uranium that they could use for a second bomb. in fact they did not. the only had one bombs worth of uranium so they had to use this newly discovered plutonium, discovered in 1940. it was far more -- if you put it in the bomb and make uranium, it would be halfway down the two, the uranium bomb worked by having a negative uranium in a larger core of uranium at the end of this gun pipe -- gun type contraction or bomb. they almost gave up. they tried many ways to make a plutonium bomb and they had to reorganize the entire laboratory

in the spring of -- you're right, little boy and fat man. many of our colleagues were impressed with how thoroughly christopher nolan and his team delved into what happened and there desire to get it right. host: the first question they asked was about the selection of the site, he asked was it selected because if there we an accident, that few people would have been killed or harmed by the effects of? guest: yes. isolation was a priority. he gave his criteria so an

accident would not be widespread and no one would know that. that it was secret, isolated. it could not be too far from transportation because they had to bring in this heavy equipment and bolthole towns so they knew they needed a lot of construction materials coming in and out. but it was also robert oppenheimer's passion to have it in northern new mexico. guest: paul -- host: paul from alexandria, virginia. caller: good, thank you for this show. i attended part of university where there were two nuclear physicists that had been discredited -- committed during

the investigations. one was philip morrison and the other -- i don't think he got suspended. but morris atlas. -- morrison was. he was a beautiful man affected by polio. he walked with a terrible limp. he was a brilliant polymath, he later became the book editor of scientific american. and eventually with m.i.t.. when he died, i read in wikipedia that he had been one of the few people who had assembled one of the bombs.

that was something you never lked about and i wonderhat that did to someone. can you talk about that? host: thanks for the comments. guest: phil morrison, everything i have heard, he was everything you described. he was thoughtful, reflective and it brilliant physicist. he and oppenheimer got along very well. morrison said of oppenheimer's role at los alamos that he did a brilliant job and that no man could do it better than he did. so he was clearly a very supportive of oppenheimer. i can't tell you exactly what he

did. i would have to look that up. but he was portrayed in a play recently and it brought tears to one of his relatives that they got his limp from polio just right. host: one more call from our guest, kennewick, washington. don is on the line. caller: hi, thank you for having me on. an interesting topic. i have not seen the movie but i am located right near the site. i died worked for probably 30 years out there after the war. i worked 10 or 11 years out there. i am familiar with the legacy of the manhattan project. and it is massive. people should know we are spending $2.5 billion a year

approximately. we have been spending that for 10 or 20 years and in the future just to clean up the waste created from weapons production just from that plant alone. it is interesting that oppenheimer was kind of on the side of the demilitarization of nuclear energy or understanding the dangers of it and what the aftermath of the cold war and nuclear weapons race has been. whether it was necessary at the time, it is a statement to the incredible -- the hazards of the race into a technology that is new and powerful. we are seeing the effects of

that around the world. i just wondered if cynthia is knowledgeable on a. i wondered what she tnk about the way it has gone from ending world war ii to the proliferation of lethal weapons. host: thank you for bringing that up. guest: never 300 atomic bombs in existence at the time of the hearing. pushing for international controls and putting the cold war ended and there were 30,000 in the u.s., 70,000, altogether. it is extraordinary.

some people do not like the what if's. as you know, that is not where we are at today. it is a constant challenge to figure out. they thought it was going to be much worse. they thought they would have nuclear weapons. nine is 19 many. will there be a world without nuclear weapons? it is hard to imagine, but at least, we need to keep pressing forward with diplomacy and

trying to get a reduction on the level of threat that the world faces today. host: cindy kelley is the founder and president there. so glad you got to talk with us today. guest: thank you for having me. this has been fun. host: glad you could join us today. we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern. until then, have a great day. ♪ >> c-span has your unfiltered view of government, provided by

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