across the country. coming up saturday morning,, the author of nasty politics talks about the rhetoric and the lack of civility in u.s. politics. then, feminist majority foundation founder on the state of the u.s. c-span's washington journal, joined alive 7:00 a.m. eastern saturday morning on c-span, c-span now, or online at c-span.org. ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by the telogen companies and more, including medco. cracks ♪ >> medco support c-span as a

public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> welcome back to washington journal. i'm joined by the president of the national right to work legal defense foundation, mark mix. welcome to the program. mark: thank you for the opportunity. remind us of the organization and what you do and how you are funded. mark: yeah, the mission has been around since 1968. our mission is to provide legal services to employees whose rights have been violated by compulsory arrangements. and, that manifests itself in lots of different ways, but since 1968, we literally help hundreds of thousands employees to exercise their rights in the american workplace. we have 20 lawyers that provide free legal services to workers across the country. at any given time, and a 12-month rolling period,, we

have anywhere from 200-250 active cases on behalf of employees. we sue unions and employers when they violate rights. we been to the supreme court 18 times in won -- and won some major victories on individual employee rights. we believe everyone should have the right to join a union but no one should be forced. at (202) . the number of strikes have been increasing. i will show a graph here from axios from 2021-2023 and you can see those numbers increasing. this is the number of strikes going from 80 in 2021 up to one of the 46. this is the estimated number of striking workers increasing. what you think is behind that? guest: i think workers across

the country have looked at the conditions of the economy with inflation and other things. not keeping up with inflation is an important part of one's financial stability. unfortunately for the last couple of years, inflation has been running rampant because of dramatic increases in government spending. stimulating the economy in a way that encourages people to stay home and not go to work is something i think reflects that as well. there's been an increasing number of strikes and labor disputes and part of the reason is because joe biden's department of labor and the national relations board have decided that they are going to use the tools they have to basically encourage unionization. joe biden said that and said he wants to promote unions, promote unions and i think a lot of union officials understand that and they think when they think of the department of labor and the national relations board against them, it's probably something they don't expect so they can be more aggressive than

they have been previously. host: on this show, this map from your website, this is a map of right to work states. you can check your state and the darker blue is a right to work state. the gray is what you call a unionism state and explain more about how that works. doesn't it depend on what kind of job you have, for example federal government workers all have the right to not join a union including postal workers. what about the private sector? guest: in the private sector, there is a low going back to the 1930's that compels individuals to pay union dues or fees on a condition of keeping a job. it was the roosevelt administration that twice passed a bill that basically gave union officials the power to force their representation on workers. even if you didn't ask for it or didn't vote for it and didn't want to union, you could be compelled to associate with that

union. to add insult to injury, you can be forced to pay dues to the union to keep your job. the context of compulsory unity -- unions as a result of federal action. the right to work states, one state michigan repealed their law but those laws are very simple. they say you cannot be compelled as a condition of your employment to pay dues or fees. to a union it's that simple. right to work laws say nothing about your ability to join a union or to participate in a union or purchase of it if you choose to do so next the operative point. the states that have them, the 27 states that have laws in place now protect your right for union activity to also protect your right to say no to the financial support of a labor union. host: let's talk about where americans are on this. gallup polling shows most americans expressed support for unions. however, the numbers are going down as far as who's joining.

it's from 1983. it was 18 million workers which was 20% and in 2022, only 10% of workers according to the bureau of labor statistics. how do you jibe at those two numbers, support for unions with membership going down? guest: that's a great question. the answer is because union officials have continued to rely on government power and government action to maintain their members. over the last couple of decades, union officials are more interested in bodies than the minds of the workers they claim to represent. when they provide a product that workers want to buy, they will buy it. voluntary unionism was at the core of the labor union movement in the late 1800s. samuel gompers, the president of the afl in his final speech to union delegates in el paso, texas in 1924 urged the delegates to contain and maintain their view of voluntary unionism. he said if you're going to

course workers, you're going to lose the energy that naturally exists within an organization that brought together through voluntary means. when you have adherence as opposed to bodies, union movement can be stronger. instead of spending time organizing workers, their spending time playing politics and a lot of workers must country disagree with their political stance and the fact that there are literally hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars playing politics every two years and that turns workers off. gallup shows that 71% of americans have a favorable opinion. the important part of that pole was the next question -- are you interested in joining a union and 58% of workers said they had no interest whatsoever. well they are popular in the idea and concept is something people support, the idea of compulsion and forces something americans reject. host: if a union does decide to strike and there are some members of the union and some

are not members, what happens? is everyone forced to strike? guest: it's one of the areas where the national right to work foundation make sure that employees know their rights when it comes to a labor dispute. the railroad worker strike that threatened last year and the ups strike that ended a week before the contract expired. we got a uaw strike potentially in september for 144,000 auto workers expired in the present of the uaw said they were willing to take the workers out on strike like the teamsters. as a nonmember of a union, you can cross a picket line. if you are a member of the union and cross the picket line, you will be subject to discipline by the union through their internal process. we had health workers across the country whether it be caterpillar or ups or grocery stores who decided they wanted to cross the picket line and go to work and feed their families.

yet they were punished with fines up to three or $4000 for the grocery workers, up to $40,000 in penalties and fines for manufacturing workers at caterpillar and other places. the foundation tries to make you understand you have to resign your union membership before you cross the picket line but otherwise you are subject to those funds. on our website, we have legal notices for workers where strikes are imminent where they can find out what their rights are and walk through the process to make sure they are not penalized. if they want to go on strike, have at it. when it comes to a union penalizing or disciplining you, that something you need to understand the rules before you make a decision. host: this is from text from bakersfield -- guest: i do, absolutely.

unions are private organizations and advocating for things they believe will help their members is something they are supposed to do -- and something their missions as they are doing but when you force workers into these organizations, that's where we disagree. i don't know if you disagree with that but supporting unions, absolutely. i growth in a union household. we understood the value of that. sometimes there is little less value like in terms of strikes but if they are advocating for host: let's talk to zack in baltimore, maryland. independent. caller: i have two things i want to say. one, the guest referenced his victories in the supreme court, which i thought was funny to immediately do after our prior guest demonstrated the supreme court has a lot of flaws. second, i think it is important

to stress labor unions need. to assert power. if it is 50% union and 50% right to work people crossing the line, they cannot exert power if they are not able to completely remove labor from the equation in order to bargain and get what they need to get. guest: yes, look. full participation predicates on force. that is the idea. you would have us believe no worker would oppose something unions do. i say there is a lot of opposition of union officials are doing, and protecting individual rights to that degree is important. you talk about the supreme court. our supreme court victories go back to -- i think we have been arguing since the 1990's. the flow of the court has changed dramatically. it has not been this court or

that court, but these issues are about individual employee rights. our supporting -- supreme court when justice scorches words there, cited workers had a first amendment right to object to government and government unions using money to advocate government policy. and said, this is a first amendment question. the idea of giving force to a private organization to compel 100% agreement in what they are doing does not make sense to me and is the antithesis of what it means for this country. host: phil is a union member in colorado springs. caller: hi there. the right to work is a right to work for less. in the states that have the right to work, their wages are usually lower. if you do not want to join a union, do not go to work in that particular business. if you want to join a union that has benefits, retirement, health

and welfare, some security, things like that, that is why you join. the right to work is a right to work for less. to say that he is in favor of unions and in favor of right to work is totally bogus. he is blowing smoke. host: what do you think, mark? guest: you are wrong about that. when you look at the cost of living and say it has an impact on the wages you may, we know workers and a right to work state have almost $3000 more in disposable income to spend than their brothers and sisters in forced union states. a lot of organizations that want to make this statement that workers make less do not adjust for cost of living. when they do, they found out workers and write to work states are better off. do the math, compare apples to apples and i note occurs in right to work states are doing fine. the idea of forcing someone in

is something we object to as a country. we give government certain abilities to use force, but not to private organizations. the notion a private organization could force you for one hundred percent compliance for everything they believe is wrong. most americans, a large majority oppose that. right to work does not stop anyone from joining a union. it does not stop anyone from giving their entire paycheck to a union if they choose to. it will not contemplate the idea of compulsion and force and firing you if you choose not to do those things. host: i want to point out to our viewers since we are talking about workers and jobs, the jobs numbers have just come out from the department of labor. u.s. economy creates 187,000 new jobs in july as the labor slowdown continues. there is a continuing cooling. the on employment rate has fallen to 3.5 percent.

economists had expected job gains to total 200,000 with unemployment remaining unchanged at 3.6%. cornell is our next caller, waterford works. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, mimi. good morning, mark. that, what you are doing, mark is just a backdoor way of unionbusting. anytime i am paying union dues and the gentleman working next to me is not paying union dues, which those wages that were negotiated through the union -- he is getting the same benefits that i am getting, but he does not pay union dues. also, someone early called it the word union. to be one, it is imperative to be one.

as far as -- since ronald reagan busted the air traffic controllers, unions been on the decline. the unions are the ones that created the middle class. the unions created the 40 hour workweek. the unions created sick pay and health benefits. all of those things are on a decline. every time there is a bill that is to raise the minimum wage, it is the republicans that are against it. you are a republican. you can talk about your family as a union worker, you are a disgrace to your family. guest: my family still likes me. they invite me to thanksgiving dinner. we share turkey. we have debates about issue. your view is you are a voluntary union member. you believe in the union movement but cannot force me to believe that.

you cannot force anyone else to believe it. your notion about the >> will len here. you can see the rest of it on our website. we are waiting for former president donald trump. this will be his first speaking appearance since his brief remarks since the arraignment yesterday. live coverage on c-span. >> we want to get the show on the road. i want to take this opportunity as i look out over this amazing