>> good morning. it is saturday, august 5, harris has been taking a more prominent role in the campaign.

she gave interviews, speeches, and met with foreign leaders while the president was on vacation this past week it the question this morning is about vice president harris. what are your views and how would you rate her job performance. you can share your thoughts on our phone lines. the numbers are on your screen. you can send a text to the number on your screen. be sure to include your first name and city state, and we are on social media at facebook and twitter. welcome to washington journal. we are taking your calls. i want to show you an article from the washington post read, harris seems to be stepping up her 2024 role, and the article says vice president harris is

campaigning with the audiences she seeks an that word she uses bid they are not the words of a politician being sidelined for supporting even if that is hurt job as 20 between 40 subperiod the pace and tone of her involvement do seem to be escalating, but they may largely reflect the fact that the race is well and truly underway. we noted as much in may. zeroing in on the republican focus on her. none of this should feel unfamiliar if you follow the 2022 midterm election. autumn brought a boomlet in pieces, claiming that harris is helping energize constituencies. americans who support action to abortion with an eye on her own political fortunes. let's take a look yesterday, speaking to small business owners in the biden onyx.

>> two are entrepreneurs of america, including those today, you are the backbone of our community. you are part of the pride of our nation. president biden and i came into office with a plan. to grow and strengthen america's economy. we knew that for far too long, our economy had not been working for working people. entire communities have been left out and left behind. trickle-down economics benefits big corporations. the wealthiest of americans, but not a lot of regular folks. when president biden i took office, we invested in the working people of america. to create means of jobs, to rebuild any factoring.

to repair roads and bridges. to replace every leadpipe internation. to connect every home with high-speed internet. to expand clean energy production. to make sure that every person in america, not just the wealthy or well-connected have the opportunity to thrive. all of that, ladies and, that is called biden onyx. >> that portion was from yesterday, and we are taking your calls about as president harris. here is the will headline that says harris takes center stage with biden on vacation. he is due to come back on monday. we will start with paul from new york. republicans. hello. >> good morning. thanks for the opportunity.

i don't think much of our vice president. she supposed to be the czar, and she has not gone down to the border. she has done nothing about the illegal immigration crisis. i don't think much bread she is out there with word salad every other day, not doing anything about the illegal immigrants coming across the border. thank you. >> all right. thank you. tim is next alabama. democrat. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. >> i've been watching biden and harris were the last two years now. when she is doing everything biden has asked her to, as far scoring -- going to the border, she went to the border, but good homeland security. they are the ones taking care of the border. i wish -- i've always wished that biden would let her speak

about abortion voting rights. when he was in for president against trump, he didn't use her the way that he should've. later on, as elections came down to the end, they called out obama and a few other people to help him wish -- when the election, and i think that he should use kamala harris with voting rights. that is a very big issue, and and abortion. thank you for taking my call. the order, as tim mentioned is from the texas tribune as far back as 12 -- june 5, 2021. the u.s. mexico border focuses on the causes of immigration

towards the border facilities with local groups that aid migrants. they continue to attack her because they do not visit the border where it is happening, and that is a picture from that. visit. tim also mentioned abortion. here is some of vice president harris's comments on that and -- at an event marking the any -- anniversary of the anniversary roe v. wade. >> we have one year ago today, the united states, the highest court in the land, the court of thurgood did the court of rpg. they booked a constitutional right that have been recognized.

from the people of america. from the women of america. a fundamental right. a basic freedom. most of us here remember where we were a year ago. the court decided dobbs on june 24 i was on my way, traveling from washington dc to a maternal health event in illinois. i heard the news. outraged, i called my husband. there were a collection of words that would not have been proper for me to speak with some other people. together, he and i talked. we talked about her daughter. we talked about my goddaughter.

we talked about my niece and her daughter. i couldn't help but think that her generation would have fewer rights than my generation or my mother's generation. the three words that came to me that i spoke, publicly, were how how dare they. how are they. how dare they. >> we are taking your calls on vice president harris. european of her. then the republican in ocean city maryland. good morning. >> morning. i do not agree with vice president harris on anything. that being said, i am not sure what has been going on with her since she entered her role as

vice president. she has always been very powerful speaker. during the brett kavanaugh hearing, she could speak red she could beat concise. she could make a great argument, and that is coming from someone who disagrees with her fundamentally on things politically. she has all of this experience to be the d.a. of san francisco, in 2003. she was the attorney general of california. that is the largest justice department aside from the federal doj in the country. she can speak. she can make her point. she could become vice president. she has rambling tangents. she was sitting around for six and seven minutes. i think she needs to find a new speechwriter and needs to find a new speaking coach.

i think she is intelligent. >> how is life at the beach? >> going well this time of year. >> that's the truth. ben mentioned the bio of the vice president, -- briefly. you can find it at whitehouse.gov. this is what the page looks like. it will tell you about the background, where she is born, and her career in california. the district attorney in the state of california as of 2010, and the u.s. senate. herbert is on our line for democrats. woodford virginia. good morning. x good morning. how are you. >> you look beautiful today. i would like to say, i think the vice president is doing a great job, and i wanted to commend you on fact checking all of these

people who call in. democratic or republican. you and pedro always do that and i appreciate that. you have a great day. >> ray is next in simpsonville south carolina. how are you. >> good morning. i am a veteran educator who has an opinion on harris. i think he is terrific person and educated. i think she is a gift to gabbert. i think if the president gives more responsibilities where things can be exercise, the entire country would realize that this is a true leader. there are other things i can say, but in essence, i just leave she is doing a fantastic job giving opportunities that the president has given her. thank you. >> are you still there? >> yes. >> as an educator, i want to get your opinion on her row with

governor desantis about how african american history is being taught. my thoughts are aligned exactly with hers. desantis, in my opinion, i don't want to be cruel this morning, but perhaps he needs to be educated on the subject of slavery and perhaps, hopefully, they will better understand the time of slavery, but at this moment in time, i don't think he has a clue. >> ok. shirley is in arkansas. republican. >> good morning. thank you for taking my call. you may hang up on me. i used to be a democrat, and i've changed, but i think joe biden and, harris, neither one can do a speech worth a crab, and i expect, harris two legs

every time she starts cackling. she can make a million dollars, shari makes a million, but i have no respect for joe biden or, harris. >> tell me about the policies you disagree with her vice president harris of what you've heard from her? >> everything. everything. >> all right. are you done? >> the black and white deal. i was raised picking cotton. worked with blacks. we were all working trade we all got along. i am so sick of that. everyone is god's children. there is no black-and-white. there are people. everyone needs to realize that. to respect the bible. that's the way i feel. >> all right. jay is a republican in monday illinois.

good morning. >> yes. i really don't agree with biden or harris. i mean, i've really see nothing much out of harris. biting, he just falls down all the time. but they didn't do nothing but ruin this country for the last two or three years, and people need to wake up and see that before the country is ruined. >> ok. this is the washington post. it says republicans trained fire as they ramp up speeches on racial justice and abortion rights. candidates see her as a target. it says this is the first job of the vice president at the last hundred -- fundraiser from nikki haley. they told people at the dinner in iowa that a vote for joe biden is a vote for kamala harris.

tas who were actually running against. we have to make sure that she doesn't win. >> the next attack came from ron desantis. he is engaged in a public war of words with harris over slavery. i've got, harris coming to florida, trying to create phony narratives that have stood up to the agenda. she thinks she can come down and lie in the state of florida. charles in tennessee, the morning. >> good morning. do you hear me? we are talking about this, and i think kamala harris has done a pretty good job, but the main thing is what republicans stand for. , harris does not stand for cutting social security. she does not stand for doing

away with what is being tried. she also, this is for the elections. social security and women's rights are the most important things, but listen to her and joe biden. they are running wild. we have 13 million jobs that this man took office, and he is part of it. mike pence is part of the thing that happened here. the trump administration. the two parties stand for the health care bill, and we can afford it. we can do it. we couldn't raise minimum wage, but everyone is paying 1314 dollars. it is time to move forward with the working and middle-class class. they cannot keep paying for everything. it is time to tax the wealthy. to get money from them. to put one pair of health care where everyone thank you and

have a good day. >> the washington post article mentioned at republican attack. i wanted to trade this portion from the 2024 republican candidates who spoke at the iowa gop lincoln dinner and des moines. here's part of what he said. >> we have the answers of what we need, but look at those issues and d.c. has not handled any of them. that is why we have to have term limits and d.c., once and for all. if this week didn't prove it to you, we have to have mental competence test for anyone over 75. that is not being disrespectful. these are people who make decisions based on our national security. they make decisions based on economic policy.

these are not tough test. we are saying the words that match, and tell me forwards that start with the letter a. what town were you born in? how many grandchildren do you have? what? i don't know what you are laughing at? >> we need to start getting d.c. in order. biden has proven to be incredibly weak, and kamala harris is not up to the job, and i will say that a vote for joe biden is a vote for, hairspray that is who we are running against. we have to make sure she doesn't win. >> that was nikki haley from iowa from last month, and take a look at this text we got saying bp harris has been outstanding in the performance of her duties. a person of good character, integrity and honesty. a first woman and nonwhite bp.

she is amazing, those traits do not limit someone's ability. tony new york says my opinion on bp harris does not matter to me because i believe the republican party has a dictator and that scares me more than anything harris does or doesn't do and here's a tweet. i am not a fan. going into elections, given the age and health, they will be scrutinized more than ever. let's go to chris in south carolina. >> thank you for taking my call. my point of view would be i haven't seen that she has accomplished anything, and i don't know if she is a capable person of accomplish anything, and she is a poster child for diversity inclusion, and equity, and shows what happens we put somebody in a position that is not qualified to do it. based on their race. that is my thought.

>> tell me more about -- you are not qualified. what would you say you are looking for? >> just some basic leadership. willing to take on something other than just have her name attached to it, not to do anything with it. >> all right. let's talk to michael in south gate michigan. the morning. >> good morning, how are you? >> i wanted to comment on the people who are calling and whining about not going to the border. when there was a president or a vice president who anywhere, if it was a mess, they had three or four jets, cars, secret service red it all comes to a halt. and people call and whine about this. people don't need to go down there.

all they have to do is listen to republicans. they must be counting the fence to sneak over because they know all about it. they know all about it. they've never been down there. and that's it. they've been doing a fine job with bringing sanity back to the white house, to washington dc. anyways, that's enough. thank you. >> john, democrat in sacramento powerpoint grid good morning. >> he couldn't of said it better. insanity again did brought back to the white house. anyways, there's another time you guys are mentioning it. i don't know what is wrong with you all. we see our country going down the drain with this crook in the white house. these white folk, these republicans, they -- something

is wrong with them. you don't know what happened to trump with another indictment, and you act like it is all to be acting the way he is doing. the whole doggone news industry is screaming to book democrat because in our country, we don't want russia. these republicans take us straight to jim crow and they michael back to slavery, and it is calling and talking about republicans, and you might go for that man. you must be out of your mind. please. this country is going to the pits. just like the bible says. babylon has become the cage of every dirty bird.

she is the head of all of the dirty birds on the republican side. thank you. >> john mentioned the former president, donald trump. he spoke at a dinner in montgomery alabama. that is the first public address after the third indictment. he talked about it. take a look. >> we always put america first. in response, our enemies unleashed an army of rabid lust -- left-wing lawyers, and really corrupt marxist prosecutors. these are dishonest people. bad people. to ranged agents at rogue intelligence. remember the 51 intelligence officials that lied about the laptop. they said, the laptop. russia said they all lie. 51 of them light. it would have made a difference of about 11 points in the election, according to the pollsters. they lied. as a result, everyone had fake

charges from the biden geo j. could have been filed to have years ago. they wanted to wait, and they did wait. right to the middle of an election. they waited until i became the dominant force in the full -- polls because we are dominating everyone, including biden. then, they dominate all of them, including local ga's and agee's, right in the middle of the campaign. we are leading by so much. every time they file an indictment, we go up in the polls. we need one more indictment to close out the election. one more indictment in the selection and it is closed out. no one has a chance. we have already defeated the republicans pray there are two and three in one. they all want me to go to the

big stage, and i say, if we are at 71, and they are at 0, 1, 2, three, some of them are or five. does this make a lot of sense? not really. >> those were comments by present -- the president last night. before the appearance, he put out a post on street social that said this red we will put this on the screen. if you go after me, i'm coming after you. there has been, as you can imagine, reaction to that post. this is a political article that says the fed alerts judge to trump's if you go after me, i will come after you post. the former president's message raises the specter that he might use evidence to targets -- target witnesses. he says the prosecutors on friday night, last night, called

the judge's attention to a social media post from donald trump did they say the former president appears to be clear that he is coming after those cc as responsible for this series of challenges he is facing. the team from -- the post from trump, bite specific implication references those involved in the criminal case to subvert the election in a court filing just before 10 p.m. on friday. senior assistant special counselor and thomas wyndham alerted the judge of the latest crimo case, tanya chutkan, to combat the post from earlier in the day. the prosecutor said this post raise concerns that they might improperly share evidence in a case on social media and may urge that he be ordered to give any evidence they turn over from

public view. all orders seek to prevent the dissemination or use of discovery materials, including to the public. we will go back to our conversation on vice president harris, what your view is on her and take care calls for another half hour, and until 8 a.m. eastern, and dj is next. weatherford texas. republicans. good morning. >> you have a little bit of confusion there. i thought were talking about, harris, we have one caller come on to whine about donald trump. here we are, talking a political stuff. >> it is big news, and it just happened last night. so that is why we are mentioning it. making sure people have seen it. >> make -- is an interesting how that happened last night. they are going to blame everything on him, i guess.

>> what do you think of vice president harris? >> in my opinion, i would send someone to the sheriff's permit bit i've been around people who are on drugs. they've been exposed to it, and in my opinion, she is on marijuana. she needs to be drug tested. >>, harris -- what makes you think that? >> probably the one that --. >> dj? >> don, california, go ahead. >> here's my opinion on biden on mx. and the vice president. on biden on mx., prosperity is simple. you lower the cost of living and you raise the standard of living biden onyx is a miracle. it doesn't do any of that. my food costs more, my energy cost more. energy, energy, interest rates, but the credit of the united states has been downgraded.

then, we have vice president harris speaking her word salad that you can't even understand red we are replacing that. what does that have to do with anything? we are replacing lead pipes. you guys all raised up some kind of pedestal when this person doesn't seem to have a brain in their head read do you know that governor desantis invited her to come down to florida to talk to him, and she is not going? she is thinking she is doing a good thing by not going? as if she -- she is vladimir putin down in russia or something? this vice president that we have , i hate to say, is an idiot. she is stupid. >> frank in alabama, good morning. >> good morning. i've never heard this much racist krapp as i've heard in

alabama. this is one of the racist countries in the world. it is not getting any better. >> well,, harris did talk about race when she was talking about teaching history in the country and the history of slavery. and race, this was at a ceremony establishing the emmett till monument. they collect. >> our history as a nation is born of tragedy and triumph. of struggle and success. that is who we are. as people who love our country, as patriots, we know that we must remember and teach our full history. even when it is painful. especially when it's painful. today, there are those in our nation who would prefer to erase or even rewrite the ugly part of

our past. those who attempt to teach that enslaved people benefited from slavery. those who insult us in an attempt to gaslight us. who try to divide our nation with unnecessary debates. let us not be seduced into believing that somehow we will be better if we forget. we will be better if we remember. we will be stronger if we remember. we all here now that it is only by understanding and learning from the past that we can continue to work together to build a better future. >> rob is our next caller. pinging 10 new york. good morning. first of all, those scholars,

not the last guy, he was such a, correct, but the two before him made such sense. , harris is an embarrassment. i hear fifth-graders speak more eloquently than her. you know, she is in charge of the border. it has been wide open for three years. to the point they admit that there are 7.5 million illegal aliens here. now, what's his name, adams in new york city, he is crying they have so many migrants there. they are not migrants. they are illegal aliens. kamala harris is an affirmative action hire. joe biden was going to hire a black female. he hired a black female. and, harris ended her career during political debates when she got up there and said i don't trust her judgment, and she smokes pot. she sent black people to prison, and then she called her --.

>> here is a tweet from pamela that says this. she is smart. i like her. i really don't have any more or less of an opinion than other vps. i feel like this is a veiled question about biden's age. i will vote for him in the next election pretty i'm am not concerned about his age. they need to get out more and tell the american people that there are accomplishments while in the white house. and andrea says they master the art of the statement by not bread perhaps they are only suited to bang the table and make accusations as a prosecutor. cindy is next in englewood new jersey, good morning. >> good morning. the problem is these republicans are scared that a smart woman might be president at some point, and this is the problem. , harris is one of the best people we've had as vice president. we have pence. he stood right next to trump.

everything that went on, all the sudden he is talking. i'm sick and tired of republicans getting on tv and basically saying, going against biting, thinking trump is the best. he needs to go to jail. this is how i feel. , harris, you republicans scared the president. have a wonderful day. >> wanda is in fort worth, texas. the morning. >> hello. i'm just so ashamed of america. , harris was talking about race and stuff. it's the history. we've lagged so much. i don't want to go anywhere else. we should be ashamed of how we look to the world, the way that we allow trump to lie and light, and then everyone lies within.

they treated him like he is a god. everyone is calling him by his names. there is a racial problem in america. until we talk about it, now were going to take out of the books. what's going on. >> sean is next. hicksville new york. independent. >> hello. thank you for taking this call. a couple comments on, harris. i think she is the most racially divided vice president. she is part indian and part black. she would have the best opportunity to bring people together. as far as her comments on slavery and reparations. i have not heard any facts or anything on, i think everyone can admit slavery is the worst thing that happened in our history. it is disgusting, but no one had facts about those that arrived through slavery and their family that is still residing in

africa. i am sure the ones in africa are not doing as well as the ones in america. if you want to talk about black history, let me give you facts. blacks are 17% of the population, and 44% of the abortion rate. let me repeat that again. 40 4% of the abortion rate, what you don't hear the democrats mentioning. thank you. >> desmond in brooklyn, democrat britain morning prayer at >> thank you for taking my call. quickly, that calvin said blacks are 14% of the population grid that being said,, harris has been an effective spokesperson, and as vice president, you are limited. you have to. the mind of the person who is in the presidency. she has followed joe biden's lead, and she has spoken about his successes. she has worked behind the scenes and augmented those successes. that said, the biggest problem this country has is exception of

racism. this country is built on human trafficking, shadows -- chattel slavery, torture. it is done this to black people, mexican people. give the chinese exclusion act. right now, everyone who is speaking out against, harris is speaking from a white nationalist point of view. that was already put in place by peace and justice back in 1854. when he said, there is no war that a white man has to uphold regarding a black man. if you look at the history of jim crow after reconstruction, many feel that right now, we are in reconstruction 2.0. one of the biggest things holding people in their mind is that number 45, who try to

destroy democracy, is being indicted and tried by three black people, and jack smith. i am all for, harris. i am all for the think she is bringing to government. democrats have done more to help the middle class, despite all the things going wrong in the economy. it is only inflation, and that is because people don't realize there was inflation in the 70's. people are crying in their milk because things have gotten tough. they were tough in the 60's. in the 70's, than the 80's. the only people who are consistently rich were under republican rule. there is limited government, all that. they'll he want to exclude use the wealthy from big tax, and they want to turn this country where oligarchs rule. >> i have to move on.

cincinnati ohio, republican. good morning. >> how are you doing. >> just really quick, you know, i am not a republican or democrat, but i note donald, when i was seeing him do what he did, he seemed like he was for everybody. so, what i would like to say is at the end of the day, it doesn't matter about race or color or gender. why can't we get along and have somebody in office who is for everybody being successful. then today, that is what it is about. >> what do you think of vice president harris? >> honestly, i'm not trying to say anything terrible, but i don't think she has done anything that i can see, but i am not very political. i do watch you guys only because every other news channel is for one of the others, so i know i

get it direct from you guys, straight news. but i can't see -- say that she is done anything significant. outside of that, i just wish we could all come together and unite as one because that is, at the end of the day, we are all humans and we are supposed to be here for one another. ask ok. frank. ocean new jersey. republican. good morning. >> good morning. >> go ahead. >> yes. calmly harris. first of all, you had someone who actually came on there. quick shooting go the border pitch went other countries. shooting go the border. >> she went to el paso. >> to cheat, i didn't see that. quick she want to el paso. the second question is, i would really want an answer.

the answer is this. how many people on washington journal actually vote democrats. are you a democrat or are you going to hang the phone up on that? are you a democrat. >> i'm not going to hang up but i'm also not going to answer that. >> you are. it is about you. you are over here spewing all the stuff grid >> now i'm going to hang up when he. next democrat. good morning. >> thank you for doing what you do. now i've heard so many people call in and despairs, harris is not being smart, the same people thought sarah palin was a genius. that barack obama was him muslim, but they couldn't do so in decent society. all these people have to do is say they don't like black people. they have thick skin, they've been through this for 400 years, so they're fine, but when it comes to the issue of slavery, people should understand that when slavery ended, white people

benefited because there is no union in slavery. if there slavery going on, there will not be a better job with the union, and if you are not first son, you're the second or third, that is why you have girlfriends. there is a need of history, and people should be up front that if you don't like black people, say you are thick-skinned, but don't say, harris is not smart when the very same people adore people who are not half as smart as her. thank you for what you do, and you guys are very objective. i've been washing for 25 years, no one can accuse you that. thank you. >> let's look at gop lincoln dinner in iowa. here's ron desantis talking about vice president harris. >> we are going to ensure that parents have the right to deal with the upgrading of kids.

they do not supersede the rights of parents. we need education in this country, not indoctrination. the need to get it done nastily -- nationally. we have, harris coming down to florida trying to create she understands florida has stood up to the left side agenda. we have beat the left agenda in the state of florida. so, she think she can lie about what she is doing in the state of florida. i am not budging one inch. we are going to fight back against these people and we are not letting them take over our schools any longer. we are going to get this right. >> governor ron desantis from last month. and, walter is a republican in st. petersburg florida. >> good morning. thank you for having me.

a clip of calmly harris that you had out there, which is interesting. she had mentioned unnecessary debates, which i find hilarious because the dating is where you begin to learn the truth. i thought, at that point, she was speaking down to me, saying, i'm no better than you. you don't need to question me. thank you for having me on it god bless america. >> let's check in on social media. i think vice presidents do not look at the limelight most the time. bp here seems to be intelligent and speaks well. they know nothing but attack, attack. it just seems to promote hate and hypocrisy. ross in california. biden, harris have ruined america. horrible economy, border, it health, and a host of other. gas has risen in the past week.

555 to 655. and a tweet from michael. gavin newsom is literally running a shadow campaign for the president. if joe drops out, newsom will be the nominee. bonnie is asked in lancaster penciling. republican. good morning. >> good morning. thank you very much. i am a 73-year-old blind educated white woman. i will say this. for a vice president, as kamala harris was chosen, i believe she was chosen because of her race. being that she was a woman. there are many, many black women in the united states, of democratic background, who could have done a better job read i have relatives that live in el paso, texas. they had car agencies.

those agencies have closed. if you have never been to el paso, you should. her job, her main job was the czar of the border. i am so sorry. we have no border, and we will not have a country. everyone needs to become united. i told willie read what was going on in florida. in all of those big histories, that is who wrote it. the blacks slaves learned trait. that when slavery was finished, that help them have businesses. why can't we not be humanistic and love each other. i have never heard more talks about race than what we've heard in the past two or three years. president biden and kamala harris said they were going to unite us. i'm sorry. they have divided us more deeply

than ever. thank you so much. >> chuck is a republican in marietta florida. good morning. >> morning britt how are you. good. hello. as far as, harris, i think democrats keep forgetting that during the presidential debates, she was the first one gone. she was the first one -- no one was supporting, and i think it is part of -- it shows how much of the kool-aid the folks are drinking on the left. i think she was actually picked because the democrats, even the democrats in support her red they have so much control over the left. and their voters. they actually purposely picked the worst vice president they possibly could because it just shows you how much control they

have over the sheep. >> chuck, i want to ask you, because a previous caller mentioned a -- mentioned a vice president nominee. did you support her? did you think she was a good pick? >> i think they could have made a better pic with her. >> you don't think she was qualified or why do you think that there could've been a better one? >> i just think there were better ones out there. >>,, too, they've even sent her over to europe or in this administration. i thought she was absolutely embarrassing. every time she opens her mouth in public did >> let's take a look at a pull on favorability under, harris. this is a clear politics. favorable is 38%. unfavorable is 53%. that's overall for all voters,

compared to president biden's favorability at 41%. higher at 57%. john is calling from florida, independent. good morning. >> good morning. good morning, c-span. calmly harris is not a very good president. i would say, in an affirmative action hire, president biden said, i have to have a black is my vice president. it limits the pool, and it insults me, personally, because i feel women shouldn't be put into boxes to be picked rid they have to be based on their merits. judging by what, harris said, i cannot understand what she is saying. it's embarrassing to the united states. the borders are. she flew over to el paso. we are talking about el paso.

there is something going on in el paso. go to france for the border where the action is happening. the border is a mess. >> el paso is on the border. >> it is on the border. there is not of lot of border crossing happening. you go down to a photo op and disappear. are you doing anything, are you helping anyone? it was just a game. pires sad or embarrassing for the nation, and the nation knows that the approval is underwater. maybe another year it will be over. have a good day. >> jodey in williamsburg kentucky. good morning. >> i think you are right now, with your hate. >> all she went to do is that.

and biden, i wouldn't vote for biden for dog pictures. that is the worst that we've ever had. he is destroying us. >> jodey and carmen in seattle washington, democrat. good morning. >> hello. go right ahead. >> s. i will make my statement about everyone calling in. hating on, harris. it will do you no good hating on her and everything. all of you people want a crook. to get back in. you don't know nothing. >> what do you think about how vice president harris is done so far.

>> she's very smart. she does everything she is supposed to do. they are hating because she is black. do you understand? she doesn't give a chance or nothing. anyone, i don't care who it is. if it is my daddy, if he was in there, ready to vote for donald trump, to come back into office, to get rid of democracy, i wouldn't vote for him. >> all right. here's a tweet from marcus who says this. i think the non-to the southern border and to root causes has been a problem for her. as a report been issued? what are the root causes and what are the proposals to address root causes at the border. cj is next. democrat. good morning. >> i got your name wrong and improper. >> all right.

i almost want to apologize for the misogyny that's been coming fullbore during this whole discussion. it is discussing -- disgusting. i can't believe men have not moved beyond just being stuck on stupid 1951 mindsets. i don't know. , harris, i thought she was kind of a brilliant d.a. in california, and i didn't like the way biden kind of liked kept her in the background, not with much of a voice, but you know, for that matter, biden had to prove he was going to be a present in with competency, but i think the main thing between those two personalities, they

reflect a democratic mindset in the sense of, can you imagine donald trump picking a vice president to kneecap him verbally in the election. if mike pence would have said to donald trump in debate number one, what, harris said to joe biden about hey, joe, sorry, you're a 29-year-old senator. you weren't all that right on racial issues, and on that little whatever it was, a 12-year-old girl getting busted for integration purses -- purposes. that meant a lot to me because four years earlier, i was a white boy getting busted at an all-black school, and it made my whole life not perfect, but it made it a lot more rich and better and i hope we can have

some stability back in our discourse and have a good weekend, america. >> on the republican line, jim, good morning. >> i just want to make a statement about that statement trump said. if you go after me, i will come after you. not once did he say he was going after a judge. people love to turn his words around to benefit them. people should know that he did not say that. we had to terms. we had to fix that. >> all right. lewis is a democrat in greensboro north carolina. the morning. >> es. the morning. >> i was trying to -- go ahead. i'm trying to figure out where all our lives have been hanging, mentioning the things that they did to black folks in america. we are still fighting all the wars.

we contribute to the united states. we are working and supporting all the things that happen to us and how they are shut down at a young age. the way our riots are. we have this. we support our nation. we support our military. and, harris has not done anything but serve the country that she loves, and when people bash a black woman like that, it is because they have mistreated a person over the country. i have nothing to say. they love prudent. they will think about that. they won't fight in the wars. they have chapters. i have respect for them. >> colleen is in louisville kentucky. republican. the morning. >> i just want to comment on, let harris. >> go ahead. >> i believe that right now,

this is a power thing. it is biden and her. they are not working together. the communication level is who is responsible when the poop hits the fan. it's like, they think they figured out a way for student debt but they are not 30 out a way to lower taxes, get a hold on our spending in stores. and still do what we need to do for our children in schools. we need more schools. we need upgrading in schools. there are so many schools without air-conditioning right now at this moment. and, faulty heaters in the

wintertime. i mean, it's like whenever someone that is extremely rich wants to donate, there has to be an innuendo involved. and, --. >> we are going to get one more call in. marvin in chattanooga tennessee. democrat. >> the morning. >> in to a project with my students. 11th grade students. i let them watch the program. last week, i gave them an assignment. and i asked them exactly what did you think about the comments directed towards your elected officials, specifically the president of the united states.

the vice president of the united state spread how do you feel about what the people are saying ? do they seem educate? mostly, they were astonished to hear their parents or their grandparents these age groups speaking this type of hatred about the elected officials. how can someone be in the position of the vice president of the united states and other people thinking whether or not they are intelligent enough, not knowing the history of vice president harris from california and how she rose to be where she is. >> they all were consistent on that.

the best person regardless of the race and until we understand what they are saying, never meant for the vice resident to run the senate. how can all of the democrats think the same way. they are curious as to how this all began. we are still down on one race so much, the black race. they have zero interest in the black people of this country. barack obama, american slavery

coming from the white house. these children are listening and they want to know. host: that is all the time cap segment. professor demoatic line -- professor thomaseitzoff, “nasty politics: the logic of and his insults, threats, and new book insults, threats, and incitement.” the effect of inflammatory he rhetoric and lack of civility looks at rhetoric and lack of civility on u.s. politics. and later the executive editor of ms. magazine. we will be right back. ♪

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his book is “nasty politics: the logic of insults, threats, and incitement.” guest: we know -- thank you for having me. host: i wonder about your field of expertise. guest: i study political violence and study it mostly outside of u.s., like ukraine, israel, turkey. when that got me involved in the nasty politics is around 2016i was starting to see a lot of the rhetoric i saw in other countries that was reflected here in the u.s.. host: if you would like to make a comment or ask a question, you can do so, republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000, independents (202) 748-8002.

if you have a recent piece called idiots and scum. you say that nasty politics is at height since the u.s. civil war. explain that and how do you measure that? guest: wait i measured it is the new york times is one of our longest running newspapers. to get a measure of nasty rhetoric i looked at the number of stories that talk about nasty politics, insults and smears. if you look back from 1851 through 2022, there were two peaks, one before the civil war and in 2016 after the election of trump you see a massive spike. in nasty politics, it is as nasty as it has been since the civil war. host: the civil war, they were coming to blows.

people were beat up in congress. guest: there was the beating of him on the floor. host: you had mccarthyism in the 1950's, the vietnam era. even with all of that, it is still as bad as it has been? guest: it is important to point out that yes it is as bad but we are not on the cusp of civil war but i would say the elites and the politicians who are manufacturing or using this rhetoric are more delighted than they have been in a very long time -- divided than they have been in a very long time. people were talking about the 2024 election as essentially the final election and that is a very concerning type of rhetoric for scholars in a democracy. host: you talked about the spike after the election of president trump. we have three indictment and the

truth social post from late last night in all caps, if you go after me i'm coming after you. i want to show you what he said last night at a dinner where he talked about the indictments. [video clip] fmr. pres. trump: we always put america first. our enemies unleashed rabbit left-wing lawyers and really corrupt marxist prosecutors peered these are dishonest and bad people. deranged government agents and rogue intelligence officers to try to stop our movement. 51 intelligence officials lied about the laptop. they said the laptop, where should to sin -- russia disinformation. they lied. every one of the many fake charges filed against me by the

corrupt doj could have been filed 2.5 years ago. they didn't want to do it, they wanted to wait and waited until the middle of an election and waited until i became the dominant force in the polls because we are dominate everybody, including biden in the polls. then they filed every one of them at one time including vocal da's and ag's and other cases rights in the middle of the campaign where we were leading by so much and it does not going to make any impact because every time the file in indictment we go way up in the polls. we need one more indictment to close out this election. one more indictment and this election is closed out. nobody has even a chance. we have already defeated the republicans. they want me to go to the debate stage and i say, if we are at 71

and they are at zero, 1, 2, 3, some of them are at four or five, does it really make a lot of sense? host: what do you think of that? reaction to that and in general to that type of rhetoric? guest: trump he wants to discredit the investigation and say it is politicized and the thing is to look at happened because this is unprecedented. it has happened in other countries. we saw it happen in israel with ben yahoo! -- with netanyahu. we saw where a current president was imprisoned when he was in the opposition and even in ukraine back in 2010, the main opposition was put on trial and thrown in prison. they all were areas of

contention and violence. we need to buckle our seat belts because things are going to get contentious. host: i want to ask you about the relationship between rhetoric and violence. people can say a lot of things but it might not need to violence and we hope it doesn't, obviously. i want to redo something from kari lake, the 2022 candidate for governor in arizona and she said -- made thesements after trump's second indictment. she said, i he a message for rricgarland and jack smith and joeiden and the guys back in the fake news idea. you should listen up as well peered this one is for you if you want to get to president trump, youoing to have to go through median -- through me and 75 million americans like me. most of us are card-carrying members of the nra.

that is not a threat or that is a public service announcement. guest: so i think one thing that is important is if you ask a lot of pendants in washington or campaign strategists, they will say this kind of incendiary rhetoric is bad for democracy and it pumps up the base but it works. i showed in my book that people don't like this kind of rhetoric. even among trump supporters, it would say they like he speaks honestly from the hip but was she would tweet last. it was a common refrain. the other side of it is that during periods of threats or when people feel this is the final election, people may say, i don't like it when a politician speaks nasty or uses harsh words like kari lake but we need someone tough. host: they keep winning elections.

the nasty ones do win. it would seem it is working. guest: i would say that there is a trade-off. politicians want to get attention. and for trump, even his critics would say he is a master at getting attention. a lot of things trump has said and done is meant to get attention and suck the oxygen and it can be effective in a primary. when you look at the polls, one of the things people criticize trump as a candidate and when president is the rhetoric they thought was divisive. that hurts him in the general election and hurts most politicians. host: talk about the role of social media in making this situation worse. guest: i think there is a common perception that social media, some people will say it shows polarized equal chambers and

leads to the -- echo chambers and it leads to people to sing nasty things. and there is some truth to that. if you look at the biggest polarizing media, it is cable news has a bigger effect. it is watched more and has polarized people faster than social media. it is important not the whole story. host: i want to show you something from this year, u.s. capitol police chief tom ainge are -- tom manger testifying on the growing threats that members of congress face and the challenge it poses. [video clip] >> thora has continuously changed and become more violent and uncertain. a member of congress is brutally assaulted and the husband of a former congressperson was brutally attacked. cyber tools are more widely available to malicious actors who employ them to infiltrate

data networks and steal private information. the increase in members of congress being threatened acquires new and innovative techniques to identify, deter and mitigate threats. upcoming elections and political conventions and campaign activities that go along with them and the increasing rhetoric heighten the prospect of future security risks and challenges. we must be adequately staffed to handle these events. we are not currently. the united states capitol police model of law enforcement no longer applies to the current landscape. it has been replaced by the need to protect the's and their families in washington, d.c. and at their home. host: what do you think of that? he mentions protecting members and their families and their homes.

your thoughts? guest: st politics and this is troubling for two reasons. it is a barometer of the political temperature when people and particularly when elites are as divided as they are now, are likely to see this kind of rhetoric. it is a harbinger of future violence. the concerning thing is not so much when you have members or backbench is saying it but when party leaders are using it, that is when it is threatening and that is the signal to folks that things are not all right and maybe that is the time for violence. not so much nasty politics but the quantity and who is saying it when it is coming from party leaders or main opposition. host: the phone lines are open. republicans (202) 748-8001, democrats (202) 748-8000 independents (202) 748-8002.

i want to show a poll from the ap on the integrity of elections. overall, all u.s. adults come only 44% say they are highly confident that 2024 votes will be counted accurately. he breaks that down according to party. 71% of democrats, 24% of independents and only 22% of republicans are confident that votes will be counted accurately . what you make of that? guest: it is unfortunate i think this is part of going back 10 to 15 years and you could argue it goes back to the democratic machine in the 1960's and kennedy and richard daley. there has always been the thought that a falsified ballots and in bush versus gore that

they weren't counted properly in florida. when trump was the candidate in 2016 a said the vote is going to be rigged. i think this is unfortunately democracy erodes from the top. when the top leaders are saying you can't trust the process and the ballots, the rank and file partisans will lose faith. host: and on the flipside, if they do win, why would they believe it? let's go to the phone lines. michael is in raleigh, north carolina, republican. caller: my comment is something i have been noticing for a long time is that our media had become more or less top again the cash more or less propaganda

-- more or less propaganda. i watched fox and i can't stand it because they pick stories that make biden look bad. then i will switch and watch something like msnbc and notice it is hate trump, hate republicans. it seems that those medias are really dividing us. i agree that the media is really dividing us as well. then i can't help but wonder sometimes is what the media reporting just what the people are thinking. are we as people becoming that divisive? is it the media, is that the people? it is hard to say. i can't stand watching either of the news channels because all they do is hate. we don't need to be that way. host: what do you think? guest: i think it is an

interesting point that he brings up an has happened over the past 20 or 80 years is cable news as -- 20 or 30 years is that cable has arrived. everyone just watched their local news and national news and now they -- now there are more choices. they will promote certain viewpoints or highlight inflammatory things the other side does that is definitely contributor to partisan polarization and increasing feelings of divided nests -- dividedness we feel. polling shows that there are differences between republicans and democrats but a lot of the strong policy differences are at the elite level and that is what gets reflected. host: henry in fort deposit, alabama.

caller: i comment is, i'd like for you to take a look at the new ruling in alabama. they passed a ruling where you can't help anyone fill out absentee ballots. host: i am not sure that is your expertise, thomas. let's go to ahmed. caller: professor, have you looked at factors historically that have led to de-escalation and the factors that lead to de-escalation and inflammatory rhetoric? ? guest: it is a great point of

how do we take the temperature down. our best research suggests that in other countries historically if they face threats from extremist policies, think leaders of artie's saying we are not going to stand for this kind of rhetoric within their own parties -- think leaders of the parties saying we are not going to stand for this kind of rhetoric within their parties. host: this is an article from brazil from august 3. the headline is, desantis vows to start slitting throats on day one. said he was split throats on day one and when it comes to taking on the deep state. he made that at an event in new hampshire. obviously he is not going to do that physically but that is very

violent language. guest: that is violent language. a lot of the federal government unions called out that language saying it was violent and threatening towards its members. it is important to point out that desantis is making this after he has been down in the polls for a while and he is trying to grab attention and trying to reflect the anger at some of the republican base and this is a gambling strategy for somebody who is down severely in the polls to the incumbent, trump. host: i want to show senator cory booker on late night with seth meyers, new jersey democrat senator. he made comments about wanting to punch donald trump and the political climate. >> i was on an iowa stage and there were hundreds of people there and this guy sees me and

he is a big guy and he puts his arm around me and says, dude, i want you to punch donald trump in the face. i said dude, that is a felony. donald trump is a guy who he hurts you and my testosterone makes me want to feel like punching him and it would be bad for the elderly out of shape man that he is physically weak specimen. but that is his tactics. you don't beat a bully like him on his terms and turf. he is the body shame or an guy who is to track people in the gutter. this is a moral moment in america. to me what we need from the next leader, is we need a leader who

is not going to call us the worst of who we are boko us the best of who we are. and in this moral moment we need not to talk about what we are against but what we are for. the guardians of democracy have never been free of the country, and demagoguery. host: we are talking about political discourse and nastiness in politics. we will go to girl in washington state, democrat. caller: think the most dangerous aspect of everything that is going on right now is creating this false equivalency. both sides do it. we only had one side that attacked the capital and that is

represented by trump. there is no equivalency. we have craziness going on the other side. host: is a false equivalency? guest: empirically what we see in the data is the republican leaders and particularly then candidate trump and dashcam up the rhetoric. so trump accelerated the nastiness. what is interesting in the clip you shared from cory booker, even calling out civility, he is calling him a weak specimen saying he wanted to beat him up. it may have started under trump it then becomes part of the regular discourse in politics and is a threat for future violence. host: and it becomes ok, that is

the new standard and level of discourse. . cheryl isn't greenville, north carolina, independent. caller: -- darrell is in greenville, north carolina, independent. caller: i don't want people to forget about senator schumer talking about supreme court justices and he mentioned two of them by name saying we are coming after you. and maxine waters, if you see republicans, you let them know they are not welcome. and this led to rand paul and his wife being attacked. and the statement schumer made recently with the abortion ruling, talking about supreme

court judge is being threatened. you need to remember this goes both ways, not just republican and trump that the democrats are just as guilty of inciting violence. host: thomas? guest: inc. that is important to think about is i had a professor in college, a famous scholar who said democracy is when parties lose elections. part of that is democracy is fundamentally that you may not agree with what the other side says but they may win elections and you might prefer a different policy but you will lose and fight another day. the concerning rhetoric is that we can't lose any elections and we have to win in perpetuity because the other side is so bad and that is dangerous. host: i want to show you this article from the louisiana

illuminator, representative clay egan's post cryptic tweet after trump indictment. this meant top said he has been summoned to appear at the federal courthouse in miami on tuesday at 3:00 p.m. this is the second indictment. he said this is a perimeter probe from the oppressors. our otis has this. know your ridges, rock, steady, calm. what does that even mean? it seems to be military language. guest: i would say the concerning part is there are some kinds of rhetoric's like impulses or smears that are disrespectful and nasty but part of politics even distasteful. but the kind of rhetoric when you have people inciting

violence or saying let's be there and be wild, basically a call to arms. it falls into the concern: about taking actions against whether they be justices -- it falls into the concern about taking actions atkins people whether they be justices -- taking actions against people whether they be justices or whatever. host: the next caller. caller: it is sad that we have generated down to this level in this society. i heard on your program it may have been on another station actually, but apparently threat missing -- threatening this is who testified against him. i don't even know how to think

about this stuff anymore. i think that society is just in decay. if you listen to a lot of your callers, there is precious little tolerance or understanding or patience with the other side to even let them make a point. i think we are already past the point of salvation and this thing is just going to blow up. i would like your comments on, what can we possibly do at this point? host: thomas? guest: whenever people talk about how polarized we are and i bring it back to most people don't care about politics here and we are talking about a narrow slice care intensely. politics are very important but that is what i tell my students, at a fundamental level this is a

phenomenon. that doesn't mean it can't be dangerous but when we say we are divided, we are talking about a small slice of society that cares deeply about politics. most people don't and want to get along. host: is there a way to dial it down and hold people accountable who say these rings -- these things? guest: people talking about democracy reform in the u.s. and is what can we do within parties so that people who use incendiary rhetoric don't get elected in state districts and these can be people talking about proportional representation are basically putting norms in place. in california they have the top primaries. there are things in place to give incentives to politicians to come to the middle and not use this rhetoric.

unfortunately i don't think there are any kind of immediate solutions. host: who in new jersey says this over a text, let's try to celebrate the positive rather than reinforce the negative aspects of america. no one wants to ignore the past but we have to come to terms with it. then maybe, just maybe we can move forward and make a substantial contribution to world peace. alexis is in limiting, north carolina, independent. caller: i have one thing to say. it is a four letter word, vote. please get out and vote. if you are my age at 75, think about social security because that is all i got. if you are a young person, think about the person that you can't even demand 15 dollars an hour.

if you live in michigan, get the pipes cleaned. host: out is this related to political rhetoric -- how is this related to political rhetoric? caller: it is everything, ma'am. they distort, distract. host: who is they? caller: anybody that thinks they need to cut down on social security, anybody who thinks $15 an hour is way too much, anybody who thinks childcare, and i have kids and they are from 30 years old, and nothing has changed. we need childcare so we can go out and. host: sheet says the solution is to vote? guest: one paradox is if we go

back to the 1990's, people were concerned about apathy in politics and how people work turning out to vote. one of the concerns going back further was a political scientist would say there wasn't a big enough difference between the republican and democratic brands. they were to like so it was a bad thing for a democracy. be careful what you wish for. voter participation is higher than it has been and people believe about politics more even though it is still a small population. i think we have to be careful about saying i don't think just voting will save us. but that is positive because more people are involved even though it is small amount. host: republican, good morning. caller: three points to point

out. i get a little nervous so excuse me if i stutter or say the wrong word. the first point was all this bad rhetoric started long before trump. it started long in the democratic party. i walked in a voting poll in the 19 60's and they voted for me democrat. i told the policeman and he pushed me out the polling place. i tried to talk to the judges and no one would listen. it was my first time voting and i couldn't vote publican. i throughout of -- i moved out of chicago because we got screwed out of our civil rights to vote. when trump was going to have a convention in chicago, you had mobs acting like crazy monkeys. they were beating up people and

running all over and calling names and reading things. i thought, wow, we finally got a representation for republican that can have a convention in chicago and he never came because of the threats on the left. that was manipulation the democratic party. they manipulate the gangs in chicago and manipulate everything. they manipulated the mafia in chicago. historically i remember these things. when you have a campaign center and you are paying for the place to speak, it is a rental place. in the state of illinois it is illegal to come into somebody's house or their rental property they are renting it, and these people pushed their way in and pushing people around.

so trump said, sock them back. and trump was the wrong guy after all of these people acted like nutty, crazy mobs. host: let's get a reaction. she is saying the started way before trump with the democrats. guest: there is a lot to unpack. there is a long history on nasty politics in the u.s. it has always been a strategy, especially for outsiders campaigning that maybe we are not part of the party leaders or apparatus and we will say inflammatory things or we are going to do something to get attention. mccarthy was amazing at that. he held hearings and was a first-term senator from wisconsin and he ran with that in the 1950's. the idea it has been both sides, i think it is hard to say. i can only focus on the recently

is that trump's arrival accelerated ins. if you look at the democratic rhetoric and nasty politics, it is all mostly directed at trump. and to republicans, they want somebody like trump because he is that street fighter but they want him to tone down the rhetoric. that is the paradox of this. host: i think it is a matter of showing strength. i think it is working at least for his rant. guest: what is -- but it is what if trump when he got elected toned it down? it was a good chance he might still be a few locks away from us. host: jean is in -- democrat. caller: wonderful conversation topic today. i heard young lady mentioning

and commenting on dirty politics way before trump. just go back to the foundation our country. what i do not prefer is to be categorized as a republican, democrat and independent. i am a human being and a person. looking at brand, it is all about what is my brand going to be because i can get people to support me. i am retired military. i love our country. i did 20 years and what i do not care for also is i used to watch

the apprentice show and i loved it. but now get to another realm appeared what i don't care for is anyone storming the capitol with guns trying to overthrow our government. i don't care if you were prior military or what your status is. don't ever do that. i heard the gentleman mentioned about other countries we have a lot but i like the conversation. conversation and communication is what we have and we have to respect one another. as far as trump a president, trump, his ancestors, his other, grandfather, son-in-law, none of them served in the military. host: let's get a reaction. guest: thing i think i will

focus on because we are close to the capitol, it is important to the size how unique what happened on january 6 was. this was an insurrection, the worst storming of the capitol's 1812. i talk -- cap cap since 1812 -- storming of the capitol since 1812. the rhetoric of trump was part of the folks that encouraged supporters to come. there are a bunch of questions about how much did he know about the insurrection but he definitely did not calm the passion of his supporters. this 35% of the republican parties -- party is for trump. host: he did say go home, go peacefully.

guest: that was after people had stormed the halls of congress. host: moses in lakeland, florida, independent. caller: the biggest threat to our democracy today is the media, mainstream media. outfits like abc, cbs, nbc, cnn, all you hear is trump, trump, trump, trump. they are not covering nothing on biden. they bypassed the laptop story. they don't talk about the 1023 form, the whistleblowers, the irs and the fbi. everything is trump, trump, trump. the biggest threat is the mainstream media and it is one-sided. host: when did things turn

against the media? there is a lot of hatred towards the media. guest: i think you can look at this long-term klein in media that -- decline in media that definitely started with trump. you can look at watergate, the vietnam war. but part of this is the change in the media landscape that has happened over the past 30 years. we have seen the rise of cable news, social media news. smaller and smaller news slices that are seeking to cater to more audiences. on the topic of trump, he was the master of when he was on twitter was tweeting out something inflammatory or something you knew would get attention and that he could suck the oxygen out of the debate. that was really effective in the 2016 primary. he got an inordinate amount of coverage. that is both his superpower some would say in some would say a

defense does that he dominates a lot of media coverage. host: let's go to mobile, alabama, republican. caller: a bring their own values and experiences. he interpreted the statement that maybe that is world he lives in to most people it would be wild, it would be exciting. talk about mardi gras. what was it like? it was exciting, it was wild. a democrat interprets finding 14,000 votes. in their world and means manufacture, make them up but to you and me and most people if you told your child to go after nt strength -- go after an easter egg, they don't mean make

them, they mean find them. they manufacture it in their mind. he makes that statement something immoral or improper. host: what do you think? guest: i would say that i am talking about this from the empirical truth of what we know about what happened on january 6. one was a concerted effort by trump and his lawyers to overturn the results of the 2020 election. that is what he was recently indicted for. on a deeper level to understand trump to appeal to republicans, there is a treat i river and jerry falwell junior that said conservatives and christians need to stop electing makes --

nice guys. they need someone like donald trump because the liberal fascists. it goes back to plaintiff strengths. 35%, that strength it solidifies them to trump and make them most polarizing figure in american politics. thomas zeitzoff “nasty politics: is the author of the the logic book called the logic of insults, threats, and incitement.” thanks for coming by. guest: thanks for having me. host: the executive founder director and magazine director discusses feminist issues in the u.s. first we will talk more with you on open forum. you can start calling in now.

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online at c-span.org/history. "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. it is open forum, your chance to weigh in on politics or policy issues you want to talk about. we will start with diane in barberton, ohio, democrat. caller: there was a gentleman from the military who made the comment that they have a group of people who infiltrate all the hate groups and last sunday in our newspaper there were 55 groups of people that were

considered white supremacists. we also have a school teaching young kids to be neo-nazis. ohio has got learned to get these people out. i hope that gentleman is listening. host: our schools teaching kids? to be neo-nazis? -- how are schools teaching kids to be neo-nazis. caller: there is one in upper sandusky and it was on our regular news. they are saying because of the freedom of speech they are allowing these little kids to be taught to be neo-nazis. host: we will definitely look into that. rich is next in new jersey, republican. caller: first, one of the last

callers was the gentleman who said with the media, and the media is the problem. first of all, c-span and the rest of the news never covered the transcript from devon archer released the other day. everybody just ignored it as usual. and that guy who was on his probably sold five copies. they don't even understand why trump was elected. trump was elected because the people felt the republicans were going in the wrong direction. they weren't listening to their voters are that is why trump was elected. number two, when is c-span and the rest of the media going to cover the corruption from this president and his son? i had to listen to what's his

name, the head of the chair for the democrats, he was on your show every week with other ones. for four years spewing misinformation and lies. now we are going through it again. host: can i ask you about what you said earlier about trump was elected because the voters weren't being listened to. what did you think about his rhetoric in starting with the 2016 election? caller: he wasn't the first one that invented all this stuff. he followed the rest of the democrats. we had to ssent four years the present wasn't a legitimate president. and nobody cared about that rhetoric. host: are you talking about when trump was saying that obama was a legitimate because he was

supposedly not born in the united states? caller: listen, politicians and these people say what they want to say. it isn't against the law. when is c-span going to have some republicans on and talk about the devon archer thing? host: we have republicans on all the time and here is an article from fox news. devon archer transcript shows how democrat representative spun illusion of access narratives here devon archer said joe biden 's presence on hunter biden's being on calls was powerful. marion, republican. caller: i caught the tail end of the guest you had on before

talking about rhetoric. let's go to not just rhetoric but actual violence fight antifa , which is hilarious because they used fascist tactics. they are the violent arm to the democratic party. with huge mop trying to break through the white house. they let the st. john's historical church on fire. secret service is worried about the safety of the president and had to take him into a bunker. i think that is violent. how about the summer of 20, where antifa threatened and came with weapons and try to burn down businesses and they did burn down businesses and cost $2 billion of damages, burned down police precincts and tried to

burn down federal court houses, through bricks at police officers. they beat up anyone carrying an american flag or wearing a trump hat. kamala harris encouraged this by encouraging funding a fund that would bail these thugs of dove prison. very few work prosecuted there they were all excused by leading democrats. i can't think of anything more divisive than biden calling half of america racist. as far as the insurrection, there were no weapons and no guns were found. when in the history of the world heavy had an armed insurrection without guns? host: let's take a look at nbc news, headline, mississippi cannot strip convicts of right to vote federal appeals court rules.

false -- the constitution mandates lifetime disenfranchisement for people convicted of murder and rape. it is open forum. we will go to michael in boston, republican. caller: good morning. i hope i can be heard fine. i am a republican. i am a deep-rooted black american. i am a republican in the abraham lincoln troop tradition. i would like to share a couple of facts.

-- along with mlk, a plan to steal the republican party. they infiltrated the party with democrats calling themselves dixiecrat's. you have them on both sides of the political equation and cannot progress. it's shocking to hear black people calling up calling themselves democrats and ragging on one man, donald trump. people have lost perspective. this is a country of 300 million people. the government is a huge

bureaucracy. it is allah set up and unless people get their facts straight, they are not going to understand today. you need to study your past and in the united states, it's always been about race and the black race. host: michael mentioned facts. i wanted to bring out a fact in response to miriam's comment about there not being any weapons at the attack on the capitol. here is pull a fact -- politifact on that. there -- that is wrong. not a single person in the crowd was found to be carrying a firearm, not one. politifact's ruling, that is false. tony is next, in newburgh, new

york. go ahead. caller: hi, everybody. i hope everybody is having a good day. as far as the rhetoric, a big problem is the way that -- trump gets everybody all upset. it is the bitterness, he has been bitter most of his life and it thrives on discord. he likes inflammatory situations and tries on it. being a businessman, i understand, but it is as simple as this -- if you are putting a biden sticker on your car, you get a chance at your car windows being broken. but the flipside of that, put a trump sticker on your car, nobody is going to bother you because it's different types of people that are supporting biden. i am not for either one of these guys, but it is a different type of people that are supporting trump over biden. he has a base that is going to follow [inaudible]

to me, a guy that thrives on people getting bitter, look at your callers calling in. the trump supporters are always complaining and they are really bitter about things. i mean, they thrive on that. that's just building up divisiveness. trump, he has divided the people to a point where it is really, really getting scary. that's the problem i have with donald trump. it's not about him supporting the united states or the constitution, he supports trump. even some of his allies, former allies, if they don't agree with him they are through. host: thomas is a democrat in warwick, georgia. good morning, thomas. thomas, are you there? caller: yes, i am. host: ok, go ahead. caller: good morning, c-span.

yes, i can hear you. host: you've got to mute your tv and speak into the phone. caller: oh, yes. they always want to talk about biden, but our president, ex-president, our country was never any kind of [inaudible] he ran the deficit up so high and wants to blame biden, but he didn't do this, donald trump did this. he did this on january 6. i am 67 years old and have never seen anything like this in my lifetime.

[inaudible] they can't even go back to their country. if you want to come to america, you go to america, but want to keep it closed everywhere else. you want to do the same thing donald trump is doing. this racism stuff about our heritage, it doesn't make sense. we were afraid and we were oppressed. donald trump is a joke, him and desantis. he wants to throw the rest of the folks under the bus and it don't make sense. host: ok, thomas. let's go to ashton, west virginia, independent line. carol, good morning. caller: yes, i want to know, as an independent, maybe i see things different. i see both sides.

i see trump's rhetoric over here, but also i have sat back and watched the whole summer of 2020, nobody said nothing. i could not find one democratic leader condoning all the riots -- now i am not saying there weren't peaceful, there were peaceful riots, but things were getting burnt and police officers were getting assaulted. on another note, i am tired of everyone saying, what happened on january 6 was the worst day -- there have been bombings of the capital. i don't know where in the history people are that is not telling this. congressmen have been shot at that capital: -- capitol if

you pull it up in history. host: the bombings of the capital? caller: look at history. host: the war of 1812? caller: if you look it up -- i can't remember the year, it happened in the 1940's or 1950's, but there was a bombing at the capitol. host: an actual explosion? caller: yes. look it up in the history and google it while we are on-air. google it right now. host: ok, i'm going to google explosion at the capital. caller: yeah, the year there was explosions at the capitol. i mean, there's been other stuff that's happened at the capitol. i don't know why a -- other people aren't talking about it. yes, it was a terrible day, but

was not the worst thing that ever happened. host: july 7, 1915? the package with three sticks of dynamite? caller: yes, ok. what else has happened at the capitol? host: that was 1916. carol, that was 1916. caller: still, wasn't a bombing at the capitol a little bit worse than a riot? host: don is next, independent. hello. caller: hello, i was wondering if your guest has read or spoken about this on a more philosophical level. in the 20th century, there was a sense that everything was progressing, everything is getting better and humanity is rising up. then world war i decimated the idea, and people began to

recognize the brokenness of humanity. i think maybe in the 1960's, when the civil rights movement was successful in some ways and then eventually, an african-american was elected president, there was an idea that oh, we are finally moving up and getting better. we are reaching for our better selves. once again, it's been exposed that we really haven't improved as a human species, and we still have this level of brokenness and malevolence within us. we probably need to recognize that and factor that into how we function and how we speak. host: ok. lisa, laura, maryland -- laurel, maryland, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning.

it is so interesting. i listen to the radio, watch television, all different stations with different kinds of people. something that resonates with me is the radio host joe madison, who is called the black eagle. he is always saying, listen with a third ear. i don't watch c-span, but i listen to it. you kind of hear what people are really saying but not saying. that's why labels don't work for me. the lady carroll, who said she is an independent and sees issues from both sides and then went on to just state all kinds of negative things about the democrats and what they didn't do in the summer of 2020. even though she was saying none of the democrats condoned what was going on, i'm sure she meant condemned.

condoned didn't make sense in that context. then you have the other caller, who called in -- i am always leery of people who need to lead with, i am an african-american and i am a republican, as those two are mutually exclusive. you can be an african-american and a republican. then he proceeds to talk about being a lincoln republican. who in the party now is a link in republican? ronald reagan wasn't even a lincoln republican. it's annoying to hear people label themselves -- and again, then he started telling black people what they should do. even as a black person, don't tell me what to do. that to me is just so un-american. you can say what you feel and think would help african americans, but you don't tell me what party i should affiliate with. thank you. host: jean is in ceric --

syracuse, new york. republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to make a couple points. the first one seems so obvious to me, but no one has mentioned it. when you are talking about rhetoric, is it too bombastic or going over the line, it is a ridiculous argument. arguments and calling people names is in lieu of war. have we all forgot that we are here because we fought a revolutionary war and every country before us fought wars to become independent? so let's not fool ourselves into thinking using rhetoric that seems over-the-top to some people, that there is any real problem. there should be no problem with that. it's in lieu of war. . host: but what about when inflammatory rhetoric leads to or incites violence?

caller: listen -- the democrats -- first of all, washington, d.c.'s blockage is on par with several other cities in the united states that are among the most violent. so the fact that they have federal troops inside to keep them out of d.c. proper doesn't tell me anything. that is a violent city, number one, and the democrats have been in the house and senate, throwing fits, creating violence several times in the last 10 years over what they thought was a stolen election. how do we forget that so quickly and then compare what happened on january 6 to violence? that wasn't violence. the only violence happening that day was by the capitol police. that's not violence. the democrats will show you

violence. host: kentucky, democrat, joe. good morning. caller: good. man, what a show. first of all, can i say, can we get off the hate? i'm sorry. i wake up every morning and forget, who am i supposed to hate today? the republicans want to make us the crips and bloods. in wendy 16, we only had 8% people -- 2016, we only had 8% of people threatened in washington. now it is 8000 people per year. we have a chip for our cat, a chip for our dog, we can put a chip in our bones, and we can put a chip in a gun. we can know where that gun is, who owns it, when and where it went off and could catch more people. the people that cause a problem,

like the republicans, i am sorry, they are doing this [inaudible] nothing educational -- oh, by the way, while they are making up all this stuff, we lost 150 scientists back to china from los alamos. the ones that make the supersonic rockets? yeah, we paid for them to go to m.i.t. and everything and now they are gone. anyway, have a good day and everybody tried to stay off the hate. host: all right, joe. that's all the time we've got for open forum. next on "washington journal," ms. magazine executive editor katherine spillar discusses feminist issues in the united states. we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv,

exploring the people and events that tell the american story. watch the second part of the calvin coolidge centennial conference, marking the president's ascension to the white house. pete souza, the former how -- white house photographer for ronald reagan, talks about the history making moments he witnessed. watch american history tv every weend and find a full schedule in your program guide, or watch any time on c-span.org/history. ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv, featuring leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. on in-depth, best-selling author and historian sc gwynn will talk about american history, -- native american history, the civil war, and more. his latest book is "his

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law passed two years later. you can listen to q&a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back to "washington journal." my guest is katherine spillar, the executive editor of ms. magazine. welcome to the program. guest: thank you so much. host: tell us about them at the feminist majority foundation. what do you do? guest: we are working for women's full equality and nonviolence. we have programs that reach all across the country, including in washington, d.c. i am here on the west coast. we are supported by our members, by those women and men who want to invest in efforts to keep us

moving forward until we have a society and culture that recognizes everyone for their individual talents and that women are equal under the law and in economics and society as well. host: you are the executive editor as well as ms. magazine. in a recent piece you co-authored, you talked about the impact of the barbie movie on the feminist movement. talk about that? guest: well, it's created such excitement. the film is so feminist from every perspective. all kinds of people have gone to see the movie, mothers and daughters and sisters and girlfriends, but 40% of those who went to the first opening weekend were men. the audiences seems to be thrilled with the fact that on the big screen, you have women

and men talking about the feminism, patriarchy, and the problems that patriarchy presents, putting men into a box or stereotype that is damaging to them as well as a society at large. i think it has raised a lot of issues in popular culture that everybody is able to talk about, because after all, it is a movie, a fantasy, but represents so many things about the real world. women's lives and girls lives today, even still. the conflict of how to be a woman -- america ferrera's character showing the contradictions that you have to be strong, but not too strong. you have to be thin, but you have to say you want to be healthy instead of thin.all the stereotypes , it hits home and that is why so many people are going and you are hearing so much about it. host: i will let our viewers

know that if you would like to call in, our phone lines are open but we have them a little bit different this time. it is by age. if you are 29 and under, call us on (202) 748-8000. if you are between the ages of 30 and 6. 4, call us on (202) 748-8001. if you are 65 and older, call us on (202) 748-8002. the phone lines are open now, so you can start calling in now. kathy, there is an article here on abc news's website, the feminist movement has changed drastically and here is what the movement looks like today. do you agree with that premise? has the feminist movement changed drastically, and if so, what is different? guest: i think it has changed over time, in terms of some of the issues it is dealing with, but also the strength of the movement has changed over time.

50 years ago, when ms. was launched, less than 20%, maybe even fewer of women would self identify as a feminist. now it is well over 50% and among the youngest women, 18 to 29, it is in the 67-60 -- 68 percentile. progress has been made for women on so many fronts, and especially now that we are facing this backlash to our progress with a supreme court that has been stacked with right-wing conservatives, we have lost the federal guarantee of access to abortion, access to contraception is threatened. we are seeing challenges to laws that are in place to reduce violence against women, there is

a major case coming up this fall before the supreme court that could in fact overturn the domestic violence defenders on band -- gun ban that has been saving so many lives. there has been a resurgence of activism around feminist issues, and every year, we become stronger. the other thing i will say, what has happened over this last two generations, the power of women's votes has increased radically. women are now deciding elections where the majority of women are voting for one candidate and the majority of men are voting for another. it is the larger percentage of women voting that elect that candidate, and those candidates have views that want to strengthen women's rights, want to advance economic progress for women and girls, and it's a very powerful movement. it's been challenged with the

dobbs decision in ways that i think a lot of people didn't expect. the activity to restore abortion rights everywhere from kansas to kentucky to elsewhere in the country with these referendums shows the power of the idea of feminism and women's equality. that's what has changed over time. host: i want to ask you about the era, the equal rights amendment. this year will be 100 years since it was introduced in congress. remind us of what it is intended to do. guest: the equal rights amendment will prohibit sex discrimination by putting the prohibition in the united states constitution so that the federal government and state governments cannot discriminate on the basis of sex. we have no constitutional protection against sex discrimination, so many of the

laws we have passed to guarantee women and girls access to education, to stopping violence against women, access to reproductive health care services are weak and subject to a changing congress, changing balance of power in the congress or state legislatures. it would put an ideal in place that states and the federal government would strive to reach equality based on sex. so it would be a major, major step forward. in fact, it has been ratified by the states. the constitution, article five, requires only two things to amend the constitution. it requires the congress, the house and the senate to pass by super majority the amendment, and then sends it out to the states for ratification. the constitution requires three

quarters of the state of the united states, the legislatures vote to ratify. we reached the three quarters of the states when virginia ratified in 2019. and yet, the trump justice department blocked the equal rights amendment from being recognized and published as part of the constitution. the equal rights amendment is very much alive, a huge coalition of women's rights groups are pushing congress to pass a resolution to recognize that the e.r.a. has been ratified and must be included in the constitution. it's been ratified, we just need congress to act. host: what are the chances of that happening, kathy? guest: i think there are very good chances. in the house, ayanna pressley

has filed a discharge petition, meaning she is gathering signatures and supporters in the house. if they get to 218, the speaker, kevin mccarthy, cannot block the e.r.a. from coming to the house floor for a vote. in the senate, we have 53 members of the u.s. senate who support the resolution to recognize the equal rights amendment, but it is that six people threshold that is keeping it from getting to the floor, -- 60 vote threshold that is keeping it from getting to the floor, a filibuster. if it gets to the floor of the senate, it will pass. it will get to the floor of the house eventually. this movement is not giving up. it was 100 years ago that alice paul first introduced the east -- equal rights amendment as an idea. the idea and fight by the suffragists to vote for women. they did not have the vote and

were powerless in the civic arena of our country. but we needed a guarantee that there could be no sex discrimination in the laws and the application of the laws. host: i'm sorry to cut you off, but i want to ask really quick, what practical changes what it in initiate in the united states -- would it initiate in the united states if it were completely adopted? guest: for example, right now, some states that have equal rights amendments, the state e.r.a.'s are being used to sue to overturn the abortion ban or severe restrictions, because to ban abortion or severely restrict it not only endangers women's lives, but it is a violation of our fundamental right to bodily autonomy;. that could be a route to restoring abortion access across

the country. violence against women -- we lost a case before the supreme court several years ago. essentially, there is no constitutional right for women to be free of violence. the supreme court struck down a major portion of the violence against women act, saying congress did not have a constitutional authority to pass laws to require that a woman could sue, for example, her university for failure to stop violence against women on campus. sexual assault and rape. that was struck down because the court said there is no constitutional right to be free of violence for women. we have to have the equal rights amendment to strengthen our laws against sex discrimination so -- even the equal pay act and all of those laws are very, very weak. host: i want to ask you about that, because we have a tweet from mlb. 50 years ago in the united

states, a woman cannot get a credit card, mortgage, car loan or a good job. that is true, but the pay gap between men and women has not changed much in the last 20 years and that affects buying power and comfort in retirement. where are we on the pay gap between men and women? guest: there are some reports and some studies that say women are 45% of what men get in pay. but if you take into account the entirety of the situation, not only pay but also benefits that jobs carry and retirement programs that jobs carry, in fact, women are really only in the 50% range still of what a typical man earns. if you look at retirement programs, annuities, insurance, massive discrimination that costs women billions and billions of dollars every year

that we never recover. in our retirement years, we get paid less by the annuities, retirement programs, and social security is included. it's because of the economic discrimination against women their entire working lives. the e.r.a. would begin to address those kinds of inequities as well. host: all right, let's talk to our viewers. andrews up first in texas, between 30 and 64. hi, andrew. andrew, are you there in texas? no. our next caller is in virginia, between 30 and 64. go ahead. caller: there is no honesty in feminism without a race and class analysis. so if you could provide some details on race and ethnicity, that would be really helpful. i feel this administration is very dishonest and has a very

un-american view and context, and we have to put things in a historical and material analysis when we are talking about feminism. there is no true feminism in the united states and less trans women are considered as women, including providing for medical needs and being protected in general. the maternal tally rate for black and indigenous women is abysmal in this country, and there are so many that get murdered with no attention. we need to talk about the history of this country with feminism before there is true feminism. i don't consider myself a feminist because i don't trust white women. until white women give up their privilege to help us, there is no feminism. host: what do you think, kathy? guest: i have to agree and disagree in so many ways. i could not agree more that when analyzing everything from violence to pay and wages and

economic issues, you have to look at how race and sex and sexual orientation intersect. i think that has been a strength of ms. magazine and this movement. in all of the analysis of the challenges that women face, not only sex or gender, but also race is taken into account. there is no question that women of color and black women especially earn less than white women, are faced with challenges that are discriminatory, whether it is to get loans or even get jobs, and certainly in terms of health care. the disparity between black women's maternal mortality and white women's maternal mortality is huge, and it's a shame. it's something that this movement has been from the very

beginning, taking into account these differences. you can't just challenge sex discrimination without race discrimination as part of that. i also think this movement has been very global, increasingly so over the years. as the world has become more connected with communications and travel, the work by feminists in the united states could promote u.s. policies that benefit women and girls around the world and don't damage women and girls around the world. it's been a major focus of this movement. there are whole organizations that only devote to global issues, whether it's to make sure the united states family-planning funding includes access to abortion or issues of peace and war. the movement is global. every country in the world has an indigenous feminist movement

working to advance women and girls in each country. the movement globally works together. we come together at the united nations every year for the commission on the status of women, there is international travel to work together, so there is no question that this movement has recognized that there are global issues of equality. do we have the power to change everything overnight? no. we are terribly underrepresented still in many state legislatures and in some of the seats south, state legislatures barely hit 15%, 18%, or 20% of state legislatures. in congress, we are 28%, 29% overall, so when those decisions are being made on how to eliminate race and sex discrimination, we are not at

the tables. we have to use our collective power at the voting booths and society to force these changes through so that all of us cross the finish line to equality at the same time. host: kathy, she mentioned trans women, and if you could comment on the trans women in women's sports? guest: this movement has been at the forefront of recognizing sexual orientation and trans women at the earliest stages. we have lead in this area as well. we don't believe that discrimination on any basis is legitimate and it is wrong, and must be addressed. discrimination against trans women and trans men has been quite severe, especially trans women, who are murdered at higher rates and face discrimination at much higher rates. we think that trans people, trans women and trans girls in

sports should be recognized. we don't see why that should become a barrier to participating in sports of the gender you identify with. also, frankly, we want more coed sports. why do we segregate males and females in terms of sporting events? why not have integrated sports opportunities, whether it's basketball and baseball, swimming, all of the running sports, track and field -- why can't it be integrated so women and men are competing together, including trans women and trans men? host: w d is 65 and older in stuart, virginia. good morning. caller: after all of the identity mumbo-jumbo here, what about the discrimination against me nowadays? what about the discrimination of

the government holding a license from somebody who is 18 who cannot get a license because they have not registered for the draft yet? why don't women have to register for the draft? what about being hailed for pell grant and college education against me for not registering for the draft? why shouldn't this happen to women the same way it is happening to me in america these days, in 2023? host: ok. kathy? guest: i would talk to congress about that. congress made that rule, we didn't make that rule. frankly, we don't want, we want different options than war, but look. this movement has said if men are going to get drafted, women should too. we should be in service to this country. not that we want our sons or daughters to go to war, but the

fact is, there is war and women's role in the military has dramatically increased over the last 50 years. we are now 30% of many of the different arms of the military. we didn't make that rule. talk to your member of congress if you want that changed. it should be changed. frankly, feminism is good for men too. that's another point made in the barbie movie, the stereotypes that are imposed because of the gender or the sex you are born with our straitjackets. they are straight jackets for women, because it keeps women and girls from achieving full potential and realizing whatever dreams they have, but it is also a straight jacket for men and boys, because it requires a certain type of behavior. patriarchy says that men should be in charge of the household and should be responsibly

\ -- responsible financially for the household. what a terrible burden to carry by yourself. why not a partnership, if you are in ahead a sexual relationship -- if you are in a heterosexual relationship or married to a woman, why not equality? it leads to less violence if men are not peg with a stereotype that they need to be rough and tumble and fighters. feminism is good for men too, because it gets rid of the straitjackets. host: i want to show you a portion of the barbie movie review, published in the wall you comment on it.d i will have "while barbie is discovering herself, ken learns that real society is male-dominated and uses the lesson to turn barbie land into kendom, a broke paradise of brewskis and

weightlifting. in his ideal state, everything exists to pand and elevate the presence of men bought the joke? i don't. barbie contains more swipe at the patriarchy than a years worth of ms. magazine." what do you think? guest: he should be reading ms. we take it as a bad of honor -- badge of honor. ms. has worked to explain problems, mark problems, and explain solutions and strategies for getting to equality. he's right, we talk about the patriarchy because it is built into our institutions and culture, into our society. recognizing that is a key part of understanding how the world works. one of the things people always tell us about ms. magazine, they come to understand that it is not them.

it is not the individual woman or girl who is somehow the only one that feels life isn't fair and opportunities aren't fair for women and girls, it's part of the system that is built in, whether that is the laws, the practices or the culture. we call those click moments. that's clearly what the movement keep -- movie keeps showing. click moments not only for women, when barbie recognizes the stereotype she is trying to meet is impossible, but for ken, when he recognizes that a society that prioritizes men and elevates men over women and men's rights over women's equality is bad for everyone, including the men. host: let's talk to shirley in bloomington, illinois. she is 29 and under. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to touch on the

subject that nobody has mentioned. on c-span. it's about the politicians who think that it's ok to pack up declassified and classified documents home with them when they are longer in office. host: shirley, i am afraid that not -- is not our subject today. jay is in washington, d.c., 30 to 64. good morning. caller: i had a thought crossed my mind more seriously in the past years with what is going on with abortion rights. i had a neighbor from the south, born and raised in the south who has since passed on. but he said something that stuck with me -- he said in the course of our current events, women were the first slaves, you know. he is the only person i've ever

had a conversation with that brought that up. the more we had that conversation, the more it seems so clear. the 13th amendment outlawed involuntary servitude, and even if you look at afghanistan, how girls are not being allowed to learn and go to school, the pattern is there with enslaved people and women. i really think someone should file a case with the supreme court, that you can't force one person to serve another person in terms of the whole, being a person, as the right wing has tried to interject. i would like to get your guests response to that. thank you very much. guest: thank you for raising the issue. it comes back to my point that women do not have protection from sex discrimination in the

constitution. the 14th amendment, the equal protection clause, didn't exist for just men, but that is how the serene court is interpreting it. the equal protection clause does not apply to women the same extent it applies to men. in the last abortion decision, which overturned roe v. wade, it essentially said women do not have a constitutional right to full bodily autonomy, to equal protection under the law from what is clearly discriminatory laws. these bans that are being passed are discriminatory, because they only affect women and girls, that sex, who are capable of having pregnancies. it's very discriminatory on the basis of sex, and we have no protection in the constitution to be able to fight that. as said, some of the states have equal rights acts, people rights

amendments in their own state constitutions, and those are being used to challenge these bands and terrible -- bans and terrible restrictions. but that's one of the reasons for the renewed interest and strong push to get the equal rights amendment in the constitution. one thing i will add, even during slavery, slaves that escaped to a free state could be arrested and apprehended and sent back to their owners in the slave states. we've now got states -- missouri -- that is looking to pass a law that if the women leaves the state to secure reproductive health services and an abortion, she can be brought back to the state and prosecuted. that's the same thing that happened during slavery. i think your analogy is quite right in many ways, very much quite right.

we've got to understand the need for the equal rights amendment, because this court is not recognizing our full equality under the law. one more thing to emphasize that , in an earlier case, the court said that -- i am blanking on his name -- not alito, but his protege who was on the court before him, said there is no prohibition against sex discrimination in the constitution. if you want the prohibition, you have to put it there. that is what we are trying to do with the equal rights amendment. host: we have a text from bill in new york, that says why do most, 53% of white women, vote for president trump in 2016? guest: well, we didn't. it was more evenly split. all the election day polling has now been corrected. but white women did not vote in

the same percentages for hillary clinton as black women and latino women. there's no question about that. a lot of that is attributable to black women and latinos understanding discrimination more deeply, because they face both race and sex discrimination. they are more often and over time voting for the democratic candidate that represents the party that believes inequality and is working to advance a quality. -- equality. a lot of it is also economic and educational. white women who have a college education and higher income categories voted more democratic than their high school or less counterparts women. but the importance of this movement is to keep educating all women and men on the discrimination that women face,

and what's needed to overcome that. so you are seeing frankly more of that now that abortion is being banned in some states. you now see republican women saying they are for abortion rights and abandoning the party, and independent women abandoning republican candidates and voting more democratic. like nothing else could have, the overturning of roe v. wade has shown the level of discrimination against women and awakened a giant that was sleeping all along. so i do think the outcome of elections will be very different certainly, going forward. host: let's go to donald next, in richmond, california. 30 to 64-year-old. go ahead, donald. caller: kamala harris, her game is on top and she won't quit. host: kathy, we did have a segment about kamala harris this

morning. what are your thoughts? guest: she is a real fighter. she understands sex and race discrimination, she has always been for the equal rights amendment and for abortion rights. she defended our rights here in california, which is where i am based, when she was the attorney general and in the senate, there was hardly anyone on that judiciary committee that pushed harder to grill the candidates for the supreme court on where they stood on these very fundamental issues on race discrimination and sex discrimination and inequality. and she continues to speak out from a very large bully pulpit. the vice president and the president have such incredible power to speak out and advocate for justice and advocate for equality and progress. she absolutely is a fighter and is fighting every day. there is no question, and is a

self identified feminist and proudly so. host: carla in new york, new york, 65 and up. go ahead. caller: the person with the tweet who wrote about president trump, he sort of stole my thunder, but i wanted to expand on that. when they did exit polls for the presidential election, women came out and voted for barack obama. they came out and voted for donald trump. they did not come out and vote for hillary clinton. all i'm thinking to myself, now that roe v. wade has been overturned, had they come out, maybe she would have won. if she would have won, we would have three liberal justices on the supreme court instead of three conservative ones and not be having the conversation about abortion right now. everything would have been just as it stood, equal access to abortion and none of this brouhaha.

and ruth bader ginsburg, for all the good she did at the end of the day, did not do women any favors. barack obama wanted her to step down, and whether it was pride, vanity, she didn't. unfortunately, she passed away at a very and opportune time and -- in opportune time and we got a conservative judge there. i have been in the workforce for over 40 years and it is my experience that women don't fight for anything. they roll over, they don't know how to say no, and at the end of the day, you pre-much get what you settle for. i think we are in this position and pretty much get what we settled for. at the end of the day, you have to fight harder, learn to say no , and maybe you have to stop saying, i am a woman, i am a victim, i am this, and you have to go with what you feel that needs to be done to get something accomplished. that's all i have to say. host: what do you think, kathy?

guest: we have talked about some of those issues. the role of the feminist movement and ms. magazine is to be explain the personal in terms of politics, so that women understand and men who believe in inequality understand that elections matter and how their votes can determine the future not only of the country, but the future of women and girls and the future men face as well. a lot of the work this movement has done is to strengthen the understanding that without changes in laws and policy, progress is very difficult to achieve. hillary did win the election. i do think we should remember she won the popular vote. we have an electoral system, the electoral college, that rewards disproportionate power and influence to small states.

the republican party is very, very strong in many of the small states, certainly in terms of some of the southern states. no matter how close the popular vote is, the electoral college votes are awarded to whoever got the most. we are facing the same problem as we go forward into the 2024 elections. people have to understand that the state legislatures that republicans control have passed all kinds of voter suppression laws, whether it is voter id or have reduced the number of voting locations where you cannot vote by mail or absentee vote, those are problems for women as well as men, disproportionately impacting communities of color, black and latino americans, so the system has roadblocks to having the real public sentiment expressed many times. so we have a lot of work to do.

there is no question and as i said, black women certainly vote for liberal. -- more liberal. they understand discrimination more deeply because they face double discrimination. we have to do more to make sure that white women understand the consequences of elections, and that they are engaged politically. host: we have a question from a jersey girl on twitter, who says, i am curious what the guest thinks of younger women who say they support women's rights, but declare, i am not a feminist. is there a difference? can one be a supporter of equality without being a feminist? has the word been diminished by right-wingers? guest: well, the word feminist and feminism has been denigrated from the way the term was invented. it was a modern word that emerged during the suffrage era, and like you saw in the wall street journal

article, it's constantly feminists are too strident, too shrill, and it is meant to intimidate women, including young women from identifying with the term. it's often you hear, i am not a feminist, but i believe in women's equality across the board. that makes you a feminist. the popularity of using the word feminist has increased dramatically. over 50% of all women and republican women also identify with feminism, and among young women, it's in the 60% to 70% range. by any other calculation, that is a landslide. so the popularity of feminism has increased, and the feminist movement and ms. magazine work to make sure people understand what feminism is, and that they can proudly identify as a feminist and not be intimidated by the

negative stereotypes that proponents of equality and the right wing have characterized as feminist. it's important that if you believe in women's equality, that you call yourself a feminist. if we got rid of the word feminist and said ok, let's call it z, pretty soon z would become a bad word by the right wing. embrace the term feminist, and everybody who knows exactly where you stand on the issue of equality. host: as we wrap up this segment, i want to ask you about a book you've got coming out. it's called "50 years of ms. colema the -- ms.: the pathfinding magazine that ignited a revolution." guest: people can buy it now on in the books and barnes & noble. it puts together the best of the five decades ms. has published. iconic covers, letters to the

editor that are wonderful, and it puts in context what was happening in each decade. you can pick up the book and read a few pages and put it down and come back and read a whole different decade. many of your viewers will recognize some of those iconic articles that really defined the click moments for us, the housewife moments of truth on the abortion issue, on sexual harassment, violence against women, but also humor throughout. this movement has used humor to point out inequities and get people awake about the status of women and girls. i think people will thoroughly enjoy it. we would love for everybody to tell us what they think. ms. has changed so many lives. we are told that all the time by women and girls, but also by men. they tell us it has changed their lives because they realize for the first time, it wasn't them.

it was the job opportunities or educational opportunities being closed off, or the way society treats us when we report harassment or violence or rape. it's a real eye-opening book in many ways, and i hope your viewers will get a copy and share it, and really celebrate the work that has been done over 50 years. it shows our progress, but also the enduring need for feminist journalism, which is what ms. is. host: katherine spillar, thank you for joining us. an upcoming politics event i nt to make sure you are aware of, republican presidential hopelsill speak at an iowa fundraising dierhosted by iowa fundraising representative ashley hinson. you can watch their remarks monday at 9:30 eastern on

c-span. that's all the time we've got for today's program. we will see you tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. have a great day. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2023] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]